From Baby Diablo to the Future of Restomods with Maurizio Reggiani of Eccentrica

MotorTrend

MotorTrend's Ed Loh & Jonny Lieberman chat with former CTO of Lamborghini & current Advisor at Eccentrica

Transcript

00:00:00Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by MotorTrend.

00:00:15Hi there, and welcome to The Inevitable.

00:00:17This is the MotorTrend podcast, our vodcast about the future of the car,

00:00:22the future of transportation, the future of mobility, and maybe the future of restoring cars

00:00:29because we have a really special guest today, a long-time industry veteran,

00:00:34someone I consider a dear friend. This is Maurizio Reggioni. He was the Chief of Research

00:00:41and Development at Lamborghini for almost three decades, and he's working for a new company,

00:00:46which we'll get to in a minute. But before then, my co-host, Ed Lowe,

00:00:50he's got a special message for you. The Inevitable podcast is brought to you by

00:00:54the all-electric Nissan Ariya, inspired by the future, designed for the now.

00:00:59And before we get to Mr. Reggioni, we have a question from a gentleman by the name of Onar

00:01:06Gurhan, and this came to us via Instagram, and he says,

00:01:09Living in LA, the mecca of EV in the US, and driving EV for only the past four years,

00:01:14I often see your typical level 2 chargers at malls, parking lots, structures, etc.,

00:01:18but they're always in that 30 to 35 amp range, meaning I typically see charging speeds

00:01:24between 5.8 and 6.2 kilowatts. With the proliferation of public charging and so many

00:01:29EVs already sporting 11 kilowatt level 2 charging with faster speeds coming, is it the incremental

00:01:36cost? So much more expensive to install something more future-proofed instead of giving us 50%

00:01:41speed out of the box. He goes on, it's a long question, but he's basically like,

00:01:46why are all the publicly accessible level 2 chargers not even close to double digits from

00:01:52a kilowatt perspective? And it's interesting, because if you listen to the last episode

00:01:57with Sam Abulsamedh, he actually talks about some of this, how in the earliest days,

00:02:04California actually has been so long in the EV game, all the way back to like the late 90s,

00:02:09early 2000s, we installed a lot of, at the time they were considered pretty fast chargers,

00:02:15and these are what is now considered level, the early like pretty cheeseball level 2 chargers,

00:02:20which is actually what I have in my house. That is, it's an interesting question,

00:02:25it's a good question. You're fundamentally talking about the little solo or maybe there's two or

00:02:30three of these little stations that are at your mall or in a shopping center. These are not the

00:02:35big boy recent ones, the level 3, the DC fast chargers from Electrified. Level 2 is 220 volts,

00:02:41it's what you have at your house available. I would say the reason is because nobody cares.

00:02:46So in other words, like you manage a mall and out of the, I don't know, two, three thousand

00:02:54parking spots you have at the mall, two of them are chargers. Somebody showed up and say, hey,

00:02:59could we install these here? We'll give you like a thousand bucks. Okay, and then you have 10

00:03:03billion other things to worry about. There's no profit, there's no incentive to care, and to me,

00:03:09that's the real reason why. And you know, you install them today, it's 2024, and 10 years from

00:03:15now they still work because it's really just a power outlet. Or they break, and why fix them?

00:03:21Because you don't care. Yeah, it's fundamentally a cost issue. If you're an owner-operator of a

00:03:27parking lot or a parking structure, there's no incentives currently for you to put in any of

00:03:32this stuff, except if you were forward-thinking and you think about how many rich people own EVs

00:03:36and would like to charge on something relatively quick. But yeah, to Johnny's point, those smallest,

00:03:42those lowest level upper chargers, that's 240 volt single-phase. If you want to get to the higher

00:03:47end of level two, which is just under 20 kilowatts, you need three-phase power, which is going to be

00:03:53a call to an electrician, it's going to be more money. Again, no incentive to do it. And like when

00:03:58we did the Rivian when we went cross-country on the Transamerica Trail, the way we did that,

00:04:04the way we were able to drive 7,700 miles off-road is, you know, Rivian ran around and, you know,

00:04:10they'd go, you know, 200 miles, that's about what we could do in a day. And they'd find like a

00:04:14Motel 6 and be like, hey, we're going to stick in two level two chargers and, you know, we're going

00:04:18to use them once and we'll leave them there forever. And the Motel 6 was like, yeah, great,

00:04:23sure. And they're probably still there. It'd be actually a fun thing to do, go back and check out

00:04:28like which chargers are still there. But... But great question. Again, one of these sticking

00:04:34points that we've been talking about, you know, while we do believe that electrification of

00:04:37vehicles, EVs, are inevitable, there are going to be these bumps along the way.

00:04:42Chicken and egg.

00:04:42And one of them is obviously how do we charge these things?

00:04:46Now, this guy, we're going to... What's his name?

00:04:48Oner Gurhan.

00:04:49You're going to send him some swag.

00:04:51Yes.

00:04:51Maybe a hat, maybe a t-shirt, maybe a mug. And if you have questions for me or Ed,

00:04:58send them along. You can go to motortrend at motortrend.com. You can go to his Instagram.

00:05:01Lowdown.

00:05:02My Instagram. And ask the questions. And if we use them, we'll send you some stuff.

00:05:08Let's talk about Mr. Reggiani. He is the former CTO of Automobili Lamborghini.

00:05:16Spent a number of years there. He was like 30 plus years at VW Group, right? Inclusive of Bugatti.

00:05:22I'm not sure how that was. I think he was 27 years at Lamborghini, but he was...

00:05:26During the EB110 era of Bugatti, he was there.

00:05:29Okay.

00:05:29But now he's working for this new company. I'm not going to butcher the name,

00:05:33but I believe it's Eccentrica. And they're doing Lamborghini restomods. And he's the

00:05:38perfect guy to hire. They're starting with something called the V12. It is an early

00:05:44Bill Diablo. They're only doing 19 of them, primarily because early Diablos had terrible

00:05:50brakes. And, you know, why let it just sit around and have bad brakes? So they're just

00:05:55reimagining the whole thing. And he can tell us all about that. Tell us about what restomods

00:06:01place in the future of the automobile is, which I think is actually going to be growing

00:06:05if the recent Quail event was any indication. It's all about restomod on the high end.

00:06:12Right. And because in the last few, the last project, I think he worked on Lamborghini,

00:06:17is the new Temerario.

00:06:20Lamborghini's entire lineup is now electrified. Uris, Rivolto, and this thing.

00:06:25We're going to ask him about that?

00:06:26He was involved in all of them.

00:06:27Yep. So without further ado, Maurizio Reggiani.

00:06:31Maurizio Reggiani, thank you so much for coming. And where should we begin?

00:06:38I'd like to start.

00:06:39You want to start with what he's doing now, or?

00:06:41No, we'll get to that. But I'd like to start because this is one of my favorite stories.

00:06:44What was your badge number when you worked at Bugatti?

00:06:48My badge number was number two. Number one was of Engineer Sanzani, that was managing director.

00:06:55And what was really, I just arrived from Maserati, means I take a risk to go in a company

00:07:02that nobody knew. And I arrived, and the first day was fantastic. I arrived to Sanzani,

00:07:08and I asked the engineer, where do we start? What do you need to do?

00:07:12And he's smiling in front of me and say, start where you want. We don't have nothing.

00:07:18But take us back. So this was your employee number two at Bugatti. What year is this?

00:07:23Was 1987, 88.

00:07:29Oh, wow.

00:07:30And Bugatti was not yet owned by VW Group.

00:07:35No, that was 99. 99 was when they bought Bugatti.

00:07:39At this time, we were really a company of Mr. Artioli. And the first six months,

00:07:46nobody was aware that it was Bugatti. We were in a small technical department

00:07:51where we cannot use any kind of name, means it was a project called car.

00:07:57And after only the 1st of January was, let me say, officialized the foundation of Bugatti,

00:08:04and it was possible to tell to everybody that we were Bugatti. And imagine how difficult it was to

00:08:09have a relationship with the supplier. Because if you present the name, you have a credential.

00:08:14If you are Maurizio Reggiani, Ed, or Johnny, you are nobody. And imagine a supplier like

00:08:19ZF or something like this, they don't take care about you. It was really a tough time.

00:08:23So at this point, you were working on that first project, the EB110?

00:08:29EB110, yes. EB110, EB110 SS, and also the race car that was some days ago at Pebble Beach.

00:08:39Now, hey, real quick, that's a great point. There was two EB110s on the lawn.

00:08:44Are those the first time your cars that you've built, designed, been on the lawn at Pebble Beach?

00:08:53I think, yes. How did that feel? What was that like?

00:08:57For me, every look yesterday was really, after so many years, is a tribute to this car.

00:09:04Because there was a period where everybody don't consider the car, because I think nobody

00:09:13talk about the car, nobody drive the car, and experience the car. And if you take

00:09:18the technical solution, the drivability, and let me say, everything of the EB110,

00:09:24Supersport, or something like this, and you put in the 90, you will be shocked.

00:09:28Because the other car in the 90 was something that was not four-wheel drive, don't have a

00:09:34solution in terms of packaging like was in the Bugatti. And for me, it was really a masterpiece.

00:09:40I drove both. I drove the GT and the Supersport. And in my head, I was just thinking it's going

00:09:46to all be about the engine, which was good. But I was carbon tub, and it's small, but it was

00:09:57like stiff, and it rode great, and it handled well. And it's shocking that it's as old as it is.

00:10:04Let me say, when we start, it was everything like, let me call it a dream. We were in touch

00:10:09with Aerospatiale for the structure of the carbon fiber body. Means that nobody do this.

00:10:17We have a carbon ceramic brake disc, nobody did. We have this solution of engine that was,

00:10:23I call every time, the concept, if you think, you take Mura engine, you turn 90 degree,

00:10:30and you have a Bugatti EB110. Means you have a line of the cylinder, a line of the two axis

00:10:36of the gearbox, and a line of the rear differential. But this give a big advantage,

00:10:42because in term of distribution weight, you have first a short wheelbase, 2.55 meter. Means really

00:10:50super short, and the balance of the weight was fantastic. And it was a 3.5 liter quad turbo V12?

00:10:58Yes. I've always wanted to ask you, because famously, Bugatti went on with the Veyron to

00:11:03do quad turbos. But you did it first. Why not two? Why four turbos? What's the advantage of four?

00:11:10Because at this time, I came from Maserati, when I did the engine of the turbo. And we use this

00:11:19EHI turbo, really small. And this was the only way to have less turbo lag. At this time,

00:11:25it was not possible to manage the turbo lag in a different way. And the idea to have four turbos

00:11:31small, really was to be able to have high rev, because EB110 have a really high rev engine.

00:11:37But at the same time, to be able to give a torque as soon as possible, due to the less

00:11:43inertia compared to the normal turbo. Right. Smaller turbo spins up faster. That means you

00:11:47don't have the lag. You reduce a lot. You do reduce a lot. The Maserati bi-turbo was two turbos

00:11:53on a six cylinder. So four turbos on a 12, the math just scales up. Yes. This was the idea and

00:12:00the concept that we did. And if you see the EB110, you see that there is really the same

00:12:04layout. You have a free line of exhaust, one turbo, free line of exhaust. I don't want to

00:12:09say that you can take the same, but in terms of dimension was more or less the same. Right.

00:12:14Very cool. And you had come from, how long had you spent at Maserati? Six years. Six years. I

00:12:20start in 1982 in engine development. Means I start on the bi-turbo engine. And for me,

00:12:26it was a dream. I dream for all my life to work in engine. And by chance to arrive in Maserati

00:12:34in engine departments was like touch the sky with a finger. Like right out of university,

00:12:40that was your first job or no? I start university and after I stop and I decide to engage, let me

00:12:49say, the world of industrial. And I did a test. I read on a magazine where they ask for, let me

00:12:59say, mechanical engineering, something like this. And I did the test. I move to Modena without to

00:13:05know who was the, let me say, the partner. I did a testing that was called in Italian,

00:13:11capolavorum, the masterpiece, where you need to, they give to you a piece. You need to draw the

00:13:16piece to tell in what way you machine the piece, you realize the piece, and so and so. I did and

00:13:22was a wheel above the wheel, by chance. And at the end of this, they told me, okay, we will tell you

00:13:28something. Was 81 and there was no mobile, no internet. Means you need to wait for the mail.

00:13:36And after a couple of weeks, I received this mail that tell, we are Maserati. We would like to

00:13:43employ you in engine departments. And for this, I start in Maserati. How old were you?

00:13:49I was 82, means 23 years old. Oh my God. You know what this is? This is crazy. US magazines

00:13:56have this thing that says, draw a picture of this cartoon turtle and we'll tell you

00:14:01if you have the aptitude. And in Italy, you get a job at Maserati. Yeah. Right.

00:14:06That's, so you had no, you had, how many years of university did you have?

00:14:10I spent two years of university. And after I decided to stop, was a university in Modena.

00:14:16And let me say, I close my circle last year with something that was exceptional.

00:14:22Is this what you invited me to? I couldn't make it. Yeah. You were honored by your former

00:14:27university. I was in April. I was awarded from Bologna University in mechanical engineering.

00:14:35Doctorate? Doctor. And you know that Bologna University is the oldest university of the world.

00:14:43And in mechanical engineering, they release only three honorary degree in mechanical engineering.

00:14:51I am the last. Who was before me was 62 years before and was Enzo Ferrari.

00:14:57No kidding. Really? Wow. From him and to me, no other. Who was before Enzo?

00:15:02I think it was a physicist that really was the end of the beginning of the 20th century.

00:15:09It was like Aristotle or something. Fermi, I was thinking. But that's incredible.

00:15:14Yes. Doctor Reggiano. I just want to say, so Reggiano and I are friends and he did say,

00:15:18hey, I'd be honored if you'd come and attend this. And I just couldn't get it together

00:15:22to come. Congratulations. I would have loved to have been there. That's amazing. So then

00:15:26the two years you spent at Modena, was it engineering? Yes. Mechanical engineering.

00:15:31It was my passion. From when I was a child, I had a really big trouble with my father because I

00:15:37destroyed his motorcycle. I disassembled it and I was never able to reassemble it. This was really

00:15:43something that created trouble between me and my father when I was 15, 14.

00:15:49So they asked you to draw a wheel hub and then tell them how you would machine it?

00:15:55In what way? I will produce a piece like this. But they look at your approach, you can imagine,

00:16:02you don't have any kind of experience, but they look, let me say, more or less what you have

00:16:07from your background in the study, from the normal high school. And let me say also the

00:16:13capacity to interpret it and to solve a problem where you don't have an answer.

00:16:19And then so back to Bugatti, so you must have worked with Gandini a little bit?

00:16:27Early on he was there? The first three proto were done based on the design of Gandini.

00:16:33So Gandini, if you don't know, he sadly just passed away, but legendary designer,

00:16:37designed the mirror, designed the Countach, designed the Lancia Stratos, etc., etc., etc.

00:16:43The maestro, as I think he maybe called himself?

00:16:45I was with him two months before he passed, and we were in a presentation of the book,

00:16:52of the real story of the B110. Because you know that there are several...

00:16:57I've heard several.

00:16:59And they called me and Gandini because we were, the two that was present from the beginning,

00:17:04means, let me say, certify what is written and so. And another emotion because

00:17:12Gandini is really a masterpiece of design. And at this time he was involved in Bugatti,

00:17:20in Lamborghini with Diablo, and with the Chisetta. Because I worked on Chisetta.

00:17:26Oh, you did?

00:17:26Yes.

00:17:27Really? Oh, we have to talk about this. The Morador.

00:17:30The first concept of the project was done in the famous six months before that we take the name of

00:17:38Bugatti. And like external department we work also with Claudio Zampolli,

00:17:45Giorgio Morador, and Tom Cruise on this Chisetta project.

00:17:49Right.

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00:18:16So, the story I've heard, if it's true, was that, and I heard this also happen with the Diablo,

00:18:25maybe you can tell me, was that Gandini does the design and then Bugatti says,

00:18:32could you change it? And there's a refusal. No, I'm not going to change it.

00:18:37And then they famously brought in the architect.

00:18:40Benedini.

00:18:41Yeah, Benedini to change it. This is a true story?

00:18:44Yes.

00:18:44That's wild.

00:18:46If you know Marcello, he's a man that take or leave. You cannot tell him what he must do.

00:18:55This was impossible.

00:18:56This was the story I heard of the Diablo, was that basically the Chieta

00:19:02was what the Diablo was supposed to look like. And Lee Iacocca and friends said,

00:19:08and he said, what I heard, quote, the maestro has spoken.

00:19:12Yes.

00:19:12And they said, no.

00:19:15Totally right.

00:19:16Okay, wow.

00:19:16He was really a man with, let me say, if you take the level of compromise that he can take,

00:19:24it's really super, super small. If you want to change the major shape of the car, say,

00:19:30this is the car, pay me for this and do what you want, but don't put Marcello Gandini name.

00:19:34Wow.

00:19:35I like it. So just for a pause, if you're playing at home and you want to understand

00:19:39what we're talking about, because this is a pretty obscure supercar.

00:19:44It was on the lawn at Pebble Beach.

00:19:45It was on the lawn. It's a Cisetta Moroder V16T.

00:19:49So that's three cars you had on the lawn this weekend.

00:19:52C-I-Z-E-T-A Moroder, M-O-R-D-E-R. It's worth just Googling just to take a look at it.

00:20:00It does look a lot like a Diablo.

00:20:02And this has, back to what you said about the mirror powertrain, this was a transverse 16

00:20:08cylinder. And did you do the engine?

00:20:10Let me see. Also in this case, engine born from two V8 Ferrari.

00:20:16Okay.

00:20:17Yeah.

00:20:18That was coupled with a completely different central casting where we put two differential,

00:20:27because you take from one crankshaft to the other.

00:20:29And after we put the line of the transmission of the gearbox.

00:20:33What we mainly designed was the cylinder head.

00:20:37Let me say, all the transmission system and the two cylinder block and components was from,

00:20:45let me say, donor car.

00:20:47I got to ask, because I've always been curious.

00:20:49Was there ever a thought to make it a longitudinal V16 as opposed to transverse?

00:20:56At the end, this is a question of packaging.

00:20:58You have a wheelbase that is like a ship.

00:21:00And for this, you only transverse.

00:21:02It's clearly that after you have a size of the car that was outstanding.

00:21:06If you see the C-I-Z-E-T-A, you see a back that is impressive.

00:21:12And this was also something that generate trouble in the cooling,

00:21:16because after you don't have air duct to entry and to cool down the car a lot.

00:21:20And this was, I think, some of the conceptual problem that this car generated.

00:21:25Because I always thought if you just added a foot to the wheelbase,

00:21:29it would look better, but also packaging, weight balance.

00:21:32After, you know, if you see now what happened with many of car,

00:21:36wheelbase is increasing, increasing, increasing.

00:21:39And you see that they give impression like if it's not stiff enough and if they can bend it.

00:21:46I think if you take maybe 110, this was a classic example of a car that is a super compact,

00:21:52super agile, without to have any kind of support from electronics.

00:21:57Because I say every time, if you want to manage how concept is good,

00:22:03you disengage all the system and you drive a car like it is.

00:22:06And this tell you how good was engineering in term of concept

00:22:10and in term of definition of a car.

00:22:13I'll get back to your timeline though.

00:22:14So you're at Bugatti.

00:22:17Are you there till the bitter end or do you move to Lamborghini before they turn the lights off?

00:22:22Also in this case, there is another fantastic story.

00:22:26Let me say at this time, our technical director in Bugatti was Forgeri.

00:22:33Forgeri was the father of all the Ferrari race and thought like a technical director.

00:22:38And when I told him looking there, let me say the mood of the company,

00:22:43I have several offer and I will leave the company.

00:22:46We have a good relationship.

00:22:47And he asked me where you wish to go.

00:22:50And I tell him I have a really good offer from Lamborghini.

00:22:53And he said, no, no, no, no, no.

00:22:55You don't go to Lamborghini.

00:22:57And he called Jean Todd and he fixed a meeting with him.

00:23:03I move 20th of December before means to assign my position to Jean Todd.

00:23:10We have a discussion together.

00:23:12And at this time, they try to have a kind of project leader for the new V10.

00:23:18And the problem that there was, there were in Ferrari several group of engineering.

00:23:24There were still the Japanese that came with Goto from Honda.

00:23:29There were some of them.

00:23:31This is the F1 V10.

00:23:33And there were somebody that was from UK when they move also Ferrari in UK.

00:23:38You remember?

00:23:39And the Italian.

00:23:40And they want to have a kind of project leader to steer everything.

00:23:44But OK, we discuss.

00:23:46And after several discussion, he told me, OK, now Maurizio, Mr. Reggiani,

00:23:50you will talk with the responsible of HR and organization of Formula One

00:23:55in order to see if it's possible to reach an agreement.

00:23:58Fine.

00:23:59And arrived Stefano Domenicali.

00:24:02And we have, for us, was the first time that we met.

00:24:05We have a discussion.

00:24:06And let me say, really open discussion.

00:24:09But we don't reach an agreement.

00:24:11And we shake the hand to say, OK, our world is so small.

00:24:14And I move to Lamborghini.

00:24:17And I don't move to Ferrari.

00:24:19And when Stefano came to Lamborghini and say, look, you come to me, not I come to you.

00:24:25Right.

00:24:26So Stefano Domenicali famously, when Winkleman went away to Bugatti.

00:24:33Audi Sport.

00:24:34Oh, right.

00:24:34Audi Sport first, right.

00:24:36Domenicali came in.

00:24:37And then he went back to F1.

00:24:40And Winkleman came back.

00:24:42Came back.

00:24:42Yes, correct.

00:24:43But let's go back, just so people know.

00:24:46That's crazy, though.

00:24:46That's a crazy story.

00:24:48You met John Todd when he was in charge of Ferrari Formula One.

00:24:52Correct.

00:24:53And you were going to be there.

00:24:55They wanted to have you help with the V10 engine development there.

00:24:59That is 1994.

00:25:04Correct.

00:25:05Wow.

00:25:06Because I start in 1995, 2nd of February in Lamborghini.

00:25:10It means in December 1994, I was.

00:25:14And after, I start in Lamborghini because we don't reach an agreement.

00:25:17Now, who owned Lamborghini?

00:25:19Where was Lamborghini at this time?

00:25:20And what was Lamborghini like?

00:25:25Because I've been recently.

00:25:26It's pretty impressive.

00:25:28For me, it was a shock.

00:25:29I arrived from Bugatti.

00:25:30And Bugatti was like to be in a five-star hotel.

00:25:33Yeah.

00:25:33From cantina, from the office.

00:25:35Everything was, wow.

00:25:37And Lamborghini was really, let me say, old company in a situation where a shareholder

00:25:42was Indonesian shareholder.

00:25:44Yes.

00:25:44It's really not easy situation.

00:25:48It was Suharto's son, right?

00:25:49Suharto's son.

00:25:50Imagine when the shareholder don't have any kind of glue about car business.

00:25:54It's difficult to justify investment, to ask resources.

00:25:59When I arrived, we were 182 people in the company.

00:26:05What?

00:26:05Really?

00:26:06Yes.

00:26:06And we sold 190 car for us.

00:26:10OK.

00:26:11This was a break-even of the company.

00:26:14And imagine, everything was, everybody tried to use carryover.

00:26:18You cannot change nothing.

00:26:19It was really frustrating.

00:26:21We were at the time of the Diablo SE, the 30th anniversary.

00:26:25And we start to make SV, SVR, working like this.

00:26:30But it was really tough.

00:26:31And at this time, let me say, the dream of everybody was to have a second model line.

00:26:38Right.

00:26:39What was called Baby Diablo.

00:26:42If you remember, there was also a concept car built from Giugiaro with the V10.

00:26:47Yes.

00:26:48Oh, the yellow one.

00:26:50Cala.

00:26:50Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:52Beautiful car.

00:26:52But in term of project name, it was called Baby Diablo.

00:26:56But the problem was that...

00:26:57How do you say Baby Diablo in Italian?

00:26:59Baby Diablo.

00:27:00We call it Baby Diablo.

00:27:02Yes, it was really the project name.

00:27:05And we work...

00:27:06Diablo Bambino.

00:27:07Yes.

00:27:08And we work a lot because we try to see the feasibility of the project, but it was impossible.

00:27:14And at certain moments, the company, the shareholder, the board of Lamborghini decide that

00:27:20we need to do this project.

00:27:22Otherwise, no sustainability can be.

00:27:25But there is one, let me say, compromise that we must and we can take.

00:27:31Is to have a powertrain existing.

00:27:33Means they asked me to make a study in order to catch a powertrain that can be fitted

00:27:40in a super sport car and that can be buy.

00:27:44Means existing.

00:27:46I start with my people to do several packaging investigation.

00:27:50And at the end, we choose that the best layout existing was the V8 of Audi that was using A8.

00:28:02If you remember, this engine, you can turn 180 degree.

00:28:07That was the 4.2 liter?

00:28:084.2 liter.

00:28:09Correct.

00:28:10And after you change only the pinion and after you have six gear in the front and reverse gear.

00:28:17Available.

00:28:18And like we were young and crazy, we fix a meeting in Audi with Dr. Pefkin, that at this time was

00:28:28CTO of Audi.

00:28:30Dr. Pefkin.

00:28:31Dr. Joseph Pefkin.

00:28:32Pefkin.

00:28:32Yes.

00:28:33Very serious man.

00:28:35But he was CTO.

00:28:36And we organized and we moved to Audi, to Ingolstadt.

00:28:41In a meeting with him, we were able to fix and I present on paper, really, no computer,

00:28:46all the project, the concept.

00:28:48And he said, interesting.

00:28:49And by the way, from next month on, I will become CEO of Audi.

00:28:56Right.

00:28:56We were in July and September, he was appointed and he anticipate to us.

00:29:01And he will told, I will take seriously consideration.

00:29:05Wow, fantastic.

00:29:06I was super excited.

00:29:07I was presented.

00:29:08I was back.

00:29:09And after September, I called and he said, ah, Mr. Reggiani, now we define a people that

00:29:15will be your interface for this kind of evaluation, if Audi can supply this powertrain in term of

00:29:24and the counterpart was Hackenberg.

00:29:27Oh.

00:29:28Dr. Hackenberg.

00:29:29Yeah.

00:29:29Uli Hackenberg.

00:29:31Yes.

00:29:31And for this, I have a personal relationship.

00:29:34I mean, he's the smartest person I've ever met.

00:29:36Yes, he knows everything.

00:29:38Yes, everything.

00:29:38Okay.

00:29:38Yeah.

00:29:39And I started because at this time he was responsible of concept development in Audi.

00:29:44Yeah.

00:29:44And they start to talk with him along, along, along, and they were never arrived to the

00:29:49conclusion.

00:29:50Right.

00:29:51We were in July, 1997.

00:29:56We arrive at Detroit Motor Show 98 and they met Dr. Hackenberg.

00:30:02When we can have an answer?

00:30:03Because otherwise we are not able to move nothing.

00:30:06And he told me in Detroit, I'm Maurizio.

00:30:08We are ready to give to you an answer, but there is one precondition that Audi bought

00:30:13Lamborghini.

00:30:15Great.

00:30:16Or how did that seem?

00:30:17Okay.

00:30:18Yeah, yeah.

00:30:19You know, Hackenberg, in this way, it's simple.

00:30:21Yeah.

00:30:21I said, Dr. Hackenberg, sorry, this is out of my scope or is out of my head.

00:30:26Right.

00:30:27And I was back to our stand and there were the CEO at this time was Dr. Di Capua.

00:30:34And there were some managing director of Indonesia.

00:30:37I told them the situation.

00:30:39Everybody was enthusiastic, but the shareholder Indonesian say, we want to stay with 5%, 10%

00:30:47in a company.

00:30:47Sure.

00:30:48And you know the German.

00:30:49Yeah.

00:30:49No way.

00:30:50Yeah.

00:30:50We want to have 100%.

00:30:52Yes.

00:30:52And well, this was Piak was on top of everything.

00:30:55And the start of the ping pong and is like in a, let me say, a stall situation.

00:31:01Nobody decide.

00:31:02And it's clearly shareholder, the Indonesian have the power of this.

00:31:06And what happened?

00:31:07It was in May.

00:31:09Happened at the Golpe in Indonesia.

00:31:12Suarto must escape from the night to the morning from Indonesia.

00:31:18Yes.

00:31:19Small little coup.

00:31:20And they sold all what was possible.

00:31:23London signed the agreement and they sold the Lamborghini to Audi.

00:31:30I think if I'm correct, the 10th of June, the 11th of June in the morning without any

00:31:35kind of information arrived Piak and Pefkin in Lamborghini.

00:31:41We arrived at the gate and there were...

00:31:43Okay, hang on.

00:31:43We got to pause.

00:31:44We got to pause for a second.

00:31:45So Pefkin, who I've had dinner with and actually really get along with well, and he's, you

00:31:50know, but he's a huge, imposing man.

00:31:55And then Piak, you know, he's the emperor.

00:31:58I mean, it's hard to explain.

00:32:01I tell you what happened in the morning.

00:32:04They told Pefkin and Piak are here.

00:32:07You can imagine, panic.

00:32:09Take out all the car because they asked to have a kind of situation review.

00:32:15And at this time we were in a building of what after was the Murcielago.

00:32:21At this time was the design of Zagato, the famous two big scoop in the rear.

00:32:27And we are already two free prototyping.

00:32:31We took out the car and Piak and Pefkin arrived.

00:32:35I present the car, blah, blah, blah.

00:32:36That's got to be the most nerve wracking moment in history, right?

00:32:40I mean...

00:32:40Piak put question on engine and so and so.

00:32:43And after when everything finished, I told we have already two proto.

00:32:46We already did kilometer.

00:32:47And for Lamborghini at this time, two proto was really a lot.

00:32:51And he don't answer to me.

00:32:53He answer to Pefkin.

00:32:55And he said, I want to buy the first Lamborghini made under Audi responsibility.

00:33:01Until when the car will like this, I will never buy.

00:33:05Wow.

00:33:06We take everything, scrap, look, don't care, walk, arrive.

00:33:10And we did the Murcielago.

00:33:11Yeah.

00:33:13Now, Luke was already an Audi Volkswagen Group employee at the time?

00:33:17Audi employee.

00:33:18Audi employee.

00:33:19He did the Audi TT.

00:33:21And after he came in Lamborghini and we start making the new Murcielago.

00:33:26And at the same time, we did the Diablo GT, Diablo Modena 2000,

00:33:32because it clearly was in process.

00:33:33And Luke take responsibility of everything, all this car.

00:33:37And those were still using essentially carryover engine from existing Lamborghini.

00:33:41It wasn't until, when did you actually get the V8 and the V10?

00:33:49Let me say, this was the V12 and we started to move.

00:33:52After this acquisition, we start also the project instead of what was called baby Diablo.

00:33:59Audi call us and say, we want to have something that must be competitive with Ferrari.

00:34:04And for this, we need to have something more in everything.

00:34:07Aluminium space frame was, let me say, a kind of best practice in the group.

00:34:12Sure.

00:34:13V10 was something new, was our, let me say, wishes.

00:34:16Because in the Cala, there were a V10.

00:34:18Yeah.

00:34:19But we don't have the money.

00:34:20And they say, you are allowed to produce.

00:34:22And the first V10 was done in Lamborghini with the 5.0 liter.

00:34:27Was still an MPI injection.

00:34:29And yeah, the group supports in term of investment, in term of resource also to help us.

00:34:35And we move from, let me say, from the back to the top.

00:34:41Yeah.

00:34:41Because everything was possible at this time.

00:34:43Did Pieck buy a Murcielago?

00:34:46I officially, I don't know.

00:34:48I can tell you that Pieck have several of our car, like Sesto Elemento.

00:34:53Yeah.

00:34:54Oh yeah?

00:34:55Yeah.

00:34:55Aventador, I think, Aventador SV, Aventador SVJ, Urus, a lot.

00:35:01Okay.

00:35:02Those are good.

00:35:02Those are good cars.

00:35:03I know he drives.

00:35:04I knew, I ran into his, I'm going to leave her name.

00:35:07I know her name, but a former secretary of his.

00:35:11And she would tell me, no, different name.

00:35:14But she would tell me that, you know, every once in a while, he'd say, get all the cars ready.

00:35:20We're going up to cold one or cold two, and we're going to drive.

00:35:24And she'd have to organize like 60 Volkswagen products for him and his friends to drive.

00:35:29When we did the famous summer for test and winter for test,

00:35:33the first that I did, Pieck was present and he drove all the car.

00:35:37Yeah.

00:35:37Of the group.

00:35:38All, all, all.

00:35:39And again, just real quick on Pieck.

00:35:41I mean, he brought Quattro to Audi, Porsche 917 and 914 simultaneously.

00:35:48TDI.

00:35:49GTI.

00:35:49TDI.

00:35:50Oh, TDI, sorry, TDI.

00:35:51It was, for me, I remember when I was still in another company,

00:35:56thinking an Audi that can use a TDI and a diesel engine.

00:36:00It was a time when diesel was really for track.

00:36:03Yeah.

00:36:03And it did something in terms of brand reputation,

00:36:06in terms of improvement of the behavior of the diesel.

00:36:10But for me, it's fantastic.

00:36:11It's really the best engineering.

00:36:13It didn't end well.

00:36:14It didn't end well.

00:36:16But I remember at, what's it, Autostadt, Wolfsburg, at the Volkswagen HQ.

00:36:24There's a little museum, all kinds of cool cars, but you walk out and on one side,

00:36:29they've got the one liter car.

00:36:32I remember.

00:36:32This is Pieck's thing where he made a car that's going to get 250 miles per gallon.

00:36:37And then on the, and this is in a glass cube outside.

00:36:39I remember.

00:36:40And then there's a 917 motor.

00:36:44The polar opposite, 1,500 horsepower Can-Am motor.

00:36:48That was so good, they had to stop the race series.

00:36:51But I think this gives an impression and perception of how this guy has an open mindset,

00:36:58open brain, and was able to think too small and too big with the same kind of approach.

00:37:02But I just, I mean, I've heard, so I can do a whole story about,

00:37:05or episode about like crazy Pieck stories.

00:37:08But like, you were a lot younger.

00:37:10That was really just like shaking.

00:37:13So when, at that time, when you had that first presentation about your V8 idea,

00:37:17you were how old and what was your title in Lamborghini?

00:37:21In Lamborghini, I was responsible of all technical office, means no body panel.

00:37:28All the mechanics was under my responsibility at this time.

00:37:31And I was also the responsible of the project of Murcielago.

00:37:35And like a concept, the concept was under my responsibility.

00:37:38I have also responsibility for this kind of concept of the V8.

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00:38:18Okay, so this concept idea that you had in talking about the 4.2, you go there in 1998 and...

00:38:261997.

00:38:27Oh, 1997.

00:38:28And then 1998, VW Group makes the purchase.

00:38:31Yes.

00:38:32And then they're talking about...

00:38:33This is like 2003-ish, the Quattro concept comes out.

00:38:41So they were already thinking about...

00:38:44Is that fair to say they were thinking about the acquisition of Lamborghini

00:38:48to bring back this mid-engine sports car powered by...

00:38:52Did you inspire the R8 being a V8 powered?

00:38:57Because then it split, the platform was shared with Gallardo.

00:39:00I think at the end there were a lot of community between Lamborghini and Audi.

00:39:06We were a super sport car with the four-wheel drive.

00:39:10We have a Diablo VT that is more or less of 94 in terms of time.

00:39:16And Audi launched the Audi with the four-wheel drive.

00:39:20And I think the position of Lamborghini was something that...

00:39:27Due to the fact that in terms of heritage, you don't have a lot.

00:39:30You can really, let me say, create and to promote in a way that you want.

00:39:36And from when Lamborghini arrived at a certain level,

00:39:41I think our main mission was until 2004, when we launched the Gallardo,

00:39:49was really to wash the perception of Lamborghini like a company car

00:39:54that made car only for, let me say, the bad boy.

00:39:58And to make a car that is for everybody, super sportive, reliable,

00:40:03and also cool in terms of to be part of this kind of world.

00:40:09Okay.

00:40:10And then, so when the Audi, it was the Quattro Le Mans concept,

00:40:18that was from day one, that was we're going to also do a Lamborghini

00:40:22and it's always going to be a V10.

00:40:24There's never going to be a V8 off this platform.

00:40:27Correct.

00:40:28The V10 was, Audi was the first one also to be convinced

00:40:34that to compete with Ferrari, they have a brand reputation that was...

00:40:39Yeah, the best.

00:40:40The best of the best.

00:40:41And you must offer something more.

00:40:43Right.

00:40:43And at this time was a time where in Formula One arrived a V10.

00:40:46Means the perception of a V10 was the most sportive engine

00:40:50in terms of output of power, in terms of weight,

00:40:54in terms of drivability for the car.

00:40:55And so, and the fact that Lamborghini arrived with the V10

00:40:59was something that created a desire that if you have a V8,

00:41:04you cannot have, I'm sure of this.

00:41:08Controversial question.

00:41:09Which one is more collectible?

00:41:13Like an R8 manual of that first, the earliest, or a Gallardo of the same era?

00:41:19My personal perception is that manual will be more and more

00:41:23a big value for collector.

00:41:25And we talk about collector.

00:41:28If you have a car with carburetor, it's something I say every time.

00:41:32When you have a carburetor, it's a car for real men.

00:41:34Because to start the engine with 8, 10, 12 cylinder with carburetor,

00:41:41you need first to hear the engine,

00:41:44second to synchronize your feet on the accelerator,

00:41:47and after to synchronize your body with what happened

00:41:53in order to move the feet.

00:41:54Otherwise, you will never start.

00:41:55I hear some car at Pebble where you start with carburetor

00:42:02and this is really, you need really not to be somebody.

00:42:05You need to be part of the car.

00:42:07You need to be a real man.

00:42:08Yeah, and I think this will become more and more part

00:42:11of the value for collector in a sport car.

00:42:14So what was it like going from a 180-person company

00:42:17to being part of the Volkswagen group, especially under Piac,

00:42:21where I really think like 2003, 2004, 2005, it was really

00:42:26at the height, like Veyron's coming, the original Touareg.

00:42:30Bentley.

00:42:31The fate of Bentley with Pefkin running Bentley.

00:42:36What was that like?

00:42:37There was a period where everybody tried to put us

00:42:40under a protection.

00:42:44Nobody, in order not to contaminate the Lamborghini.

00:42:48But after when it was a time of the Murcielago,

00:42:51when start the Gallardo was mandatory to have the support.

00:42:55And I must say that was a time where the enthusiasm

00:43:00of Audi people was really perceivable.

00:43:03Everybody want to support because also for them

00:43:06was to touch something that for them is like a toy.

00:43:10And it was a moment where I established

00:43:13the best relationship with the engineering of Audi.

00:43:16Everybody offer, help, support, let me say free of charge.

00:43:22And this was really a way to create a trust that for me

00:43:27was fundamental because after I was appointed CTO,

00:43:31I was the only Italian CTO in the VW group

00:43:36where all the other was German, were German.

00:43:39And they was not able to speak German.

00:43:41That's a big deal.

00:43:42Yes.

00:43:42That's a very big deal.

00:43:43Vinterkorn, Pierre, everybody must talk in English with me.

00:43:46And for them was...

00:43:48Annoying.

00:43:49That's yeah.

00:43:51And I know these people.

00:43:52I've met Vinterkorn.

00:43:52Yeah, yeah.

00:43:53And imagine also when it was a briefing of all the CTO,

00:43:57means we were in 14, 15, 16 people

00:44:00and they were obliged to speak English.

00:44:02Ah, wow.

00:44:04How do you, how do you deal with that?

00:44:07Are you like...

00:44:08The first time I was a little bit, let me say under pressure,

00:44:13but after became like a joke to say,

00:44:16Ah, he's here.

00:44:17Me alone, I am able to control,

00:44:19to control, no, not to control,

00:44:21but to oblige you really to have a tough time.

00:44:23But at the end, I think this was a part

00:44:26of internationalization of the VW group.

00:44:29This was, we were the only Italian CTO

00:44:32in the VW group.

00:44:33This was, we were the first one.

00:44:35And I think that this is important mindset

00:44:41for the future that they were obliged.

00:44:43But they never said, you know, sprechen Sie Deutsch?

00:44:46Did you learn to speak German?

00:44:47No, I did.

00:44:49I did so many training one-to-one in German.

00:44:52But the problem is that every time that I moved to,

00:44:55to, for example, to Ingolstadt,

00:44:57they talk slang that from what I studied

00:45:01was completely different.

00:45:02And I was frustrated because I was back

00:45:04from a professor and say, sorry, I study,

00:45:08I don't understand nothing.

00:45:09And she told me, no, Maurizio, you are good.

00:45:11I said, sorry, I was present two hour,

00:45:15no one single word.

00:45:16Right.

00:45:16And after one time I talked with one manager of Audi,

00:45:19said, but why?

00:45:21Because here we don't speak German.

00:45:22Right, right.

00:45:23We speak Bavarian.

00:45:24Bavarian, right, right, right, right, right.

00:45:26Yeah, that's funny.

00:45:27So let's, we got to talk about what you're doing now,

00:45:30but I just want to say, for those of you who don't know,

00:45:34are like dazzled by how quickly we're moving.

00:45:36We haven't even got to the point where,

00:45:38Maurizio has really been, was at the brand

00:45:41when it became the small 180 something company

00:45:45to selling, some might say too many Lamborghinis, right?

00:45:50You've, the brand exploded in number of vehicles

00:45:54and variants and popularity.

00:45:56And it really started with Gallardo.

00:45:58Yeah, but I think at the presentation of the,

00:46:02at the quail of the, I'm going to butcher the name, Temerario.

00:46:05Temerario.

00:46:06Temerario.

00:46:09You guys sold 29,000 Huracans?

00:46:13That's unthinkable.

00:46:14I mean, how many, like the total number of Countachs

00:46:16in 15 years was 1500 or something?

00:46:19I think the Gallardo was the first exercise

00:46:25when Winkleman arrived in order,

00:46:27at this time was tough

00:46:28because there was a period of a crisis.

00:46:30And so, and to survive, to maintain,

00:46:33we started to made the strategy of the variants

00:46:37of the model of a Superleggera, Performante, Spider, Roadster.

00:46:43And this guarantee, let me say,

00:46:46the increasing of the volume of Lamborghini.

00:46:49And I think what they have in mind now is correct.

00:46:55Because you need to offer the quiet car,

00:46:58but you need also to offer the, let me say,

00:47:01ultra juice car that with the spoiler, something like this.

00:47:04And you cannot made one and say, this is for everybody.

00:47:08I see also competitor of Lamborghini

00:47:10do the same strategy.

00:47:10Sure, of course.

00:47:11They change a lot compared to the past

00:47:13where it was one version and it's for everybody.

00:47:16Now they start to make different version of the same car.

00:47:20Make them limited.

00:47:21And then people, do you increase the pressure to buy it?

00:47:24We were the first one with the Reventon

00:47:26to made the few off.

00:47:28I was with Winkelmann, it was 2006.

00:47:30We invented the Reventon.

00:47:34This was a time of crisis.

00:47:38We have necessity to push up the brand,

00:47:41but also to earn money in a short time.

00:47:44And the short time was one year.

00:47:46And normally, the normal process don't exist.

00:47:48And being part of a big group,

00:47:50you need to have approval to make something shorter.

00:47:53And after, you must be able to do.

00:47:55And after the, let me say, the challenge of Reventon,

00:47:59we invented this way to produce car.

00:48:02And clearly, that was a success after success.

00:48:05Reventon, after we made the Veneno, the Concept J,

00:48:09we did the Sesto Elemento, the Centenario,

00:48:13the Sian, the Countach.

00:48:16And also now, what is my, let me say,

00:48:18my job in terms of advisory,

00:48:20something that is 19 car.

00:48:22It's more or less the same kind of perimeter

00:48:25that we found in 2006.

00:48:28All right, so Reventon's really interesting

00:48:29because that was, you know, it was in a way,

00:48:32I don't want to say re-bought,

00:48:33I know other was done,

00:48:34but it was a Murcielago with a different body.

00:48:37But the price tag went up like five times, right?

00:48:39I mean, it was very few.

00:48:41How many Reventons?

00:48:42We did the 20.

00:48:4320 Reventons.

00:48:44And then for the Veneno,

00:48:46it went to three Coupes and nine-

00:48:49Roadster.

00:48:50And so 12 cars,

00:48:51and they were four million euros each or something.

00:48:56Like, did that seem possible?

00:48:58How did you know that would work?

00:48:59It is, every time, it's something that I learned.

00:49:02I am engineering, means sometimes you need to hear

00:49:08what people of commercial say.

00:49:10And in this, Winkerman,

00:49:11every time discuss about the elasticity.

00:49:15How big is a cost for how many car you can produce?

00:49:19And it's like to have an integral.

00:49:21And it's clearly that how more powerful is a brand

00:49:24and more you can ask.

00:49:25In term of cost, you have less car, means less risk.

00:49:29More you made volume and more the risk is increasing.

00:49:32Because volume, you need to sell.

00:49:34If you made one car, 10 million,

00:49:37it's much more easy to catch the really,

00:49:39the super collector that put 10 million on the table

00:49:43to take two that put five million.

00:49:46So what, like the Veneno, for instance,

00:49:49like that was one,

00:49:51and we talked about this when I drove the Centenario.

00:49:54But I said, I don't know if you remember this,

00:49:56but I said, how come, like,

00:49:58we didn't drive the Revington,

00:50:00we didn't drive the Veneno,

00:50:02how come you're, very kindly,

00:50:04they invited me to come to drive the Centenario.

00:50:06And you said, oh, because Winkerman left.

00:50:08No, was also the fact that for the first time

00:50:13with the Centenario,

00:50:14we have more of one prototyping, Johnny.

00:50:17And this one can be dedicated to poor development and so,

00:50:20and one from a static point of view,

00:50:22something that can be presented.

00:50:25When we did Veneno, we have only one prototyping

00:50:28where we were not sure, sell or not sell.

00:50:31And for this reason was difficult also to put in touch.

00:50:35And the other point is that with Centenario,

00:50:37due to the fact that there was the rear wheel drive system

00:50:40validated in this car, in term of reliability,

00:50:43in term of functionality,

00:50:44we were much more confident about the car.

00:50:47Right.

00:50:47Much more reliable.

00:50:49And for this was the first time that we decide

00:50:51also to have for the few off car,

00:50:55press involved in this kind of creativity.

00:50:57Got it.

00:50:57So.

00:50:58Everything have a reason.

00:51:00Yeah, no, no, I was just curious.

00:51:01Yeah.

00:51:03I want to talk about what you're doing next,

00:51:08but I just want to,

00:51:09with so much.

00:51:10I know, I just, I'm struggling here

00:51:12because I know there's so much to talk about,

00:51:14but you retired from Lamborghini a couple of years ago.

00:51:20In December of this year.

00:51:21December, oh, December.

00:51:22Well, no, you changed positions.

00:51:24I changed position like a vice president of motorsport

00:51:27in the last one and a half year.

00:51:29So you were, but CTO, formerly CTO of Lamborghini.

00:51:32And I went, I think I went on the trip to Bahrain.

00:51:37Bahrain.

00:51:38And I remember we were talking a lot about the emotion

00:51:41and you were putting in the special,

00:51:43the program in the, in the vehicles.

00:51:45You were, you've been in the auto industry since very much.

00:51:49You just talked about carbureted vehicles.

00:51:5082.

00:51:51Yeah, 82.

00:51:52How, how challenging was it for you in your role as CTO

00:51:57in those, in these last few years,

00:52:00where everything is now about digital software,

00:52:04like bringing that level of passion and emotion

00:52:08to a supercar, but it's not just the stuff you're used to,

00:52:13the analog piece.

00:52:14I, for me, the mantra is that emotion must be engineering.

00:52:22You cannot think that engineering came by chance.

00:52:25You need to define what you want to achieve.

00:52:28And based on what you want to achieve,

00:52:30you need to be able to simulate, to predict,

00:52:34and to implement it.

00:52:36It's clearly that more and more,

00:52:38this kind of engineering is based on software.

00:52:41Yeah.

00:52:42It's difficult to have something physic

00:52:44that you can transfer to the customer,

00:52:47to the passenger, to the occupant.

00:52:49This is clearly, I think that the, the,

00:52:55the future will be, let me say,

00:52:58I don't want to say that

00:53:02if, if the concept of the car will move

00:53:06all in the same direction,

00:53:07will be difficult to have a different perception.

00:53:10The only parameter that can be difference is,

00:53:13will be the weight.

00:53:13This is, for me, is the only physic

00:53:16that can play a difference.

00:53:18All the rest is in term of energy,

00:53:21in term of distribution, is software.

00:53:24And you decide what you want to release to customer.

00:53:27Weight will be very different.

00:53:29Weight is the final frontier.

00:53:31I keep saying it.

00:53:32Weight will be the last piece because of the batteries.

00:53:34But real quick though, I mean,

00:53:35I remember when we were on the technical launch

00:53:38and you were explaining the brain of the Lamborghini,

00:53:40the Huracan Tecnica, like it does,

00:53:43it's a lot of software.

00:53:45Yes, it's a lot of software that

00:53:48synchronize mechanical activity

00:53:53in a way that nobody of us can do

00:53:56at the same times.

00:53:58And for me, this is a software that is predicted

00:54:01what is the best choice based on what you want,

00:54:04is ready.

00:54:06But at the end, what happened is mechanically,

00:54:08is an opening of a throttle,

00:54:11is a distribution of the torque

00:54:15between front and rear

00:54:16through mechanical components

00:54:18or from left to the right,

00:54:20is a steering done in another way,

00:54:22and something like this.

00:54:23That is completely different.

00:54:25If today you take the best practice as possible

00:54:28is four electric engine.

00:54:30Four motors, yep, yep.

00:54:32You have a control for every motor

00:54:33and you can do more or less all what you want.

00:54:35Right.

00:54:37This is something that theoretically,

00:54:39everybody can do.

00:54:40Yeah.

00:54:40Well, so is that...

00:54:43My truck has four motors.

00:54:44Yeah.

00:54:46But was that frustrating for you?

00:54:49When was the realization

00:54:51that this is what it comes down to?

00:54:54What was the first time you drove a fast EV?

00:55:00Did you drive a Model S Plaid or something?

00:55:02And you were just like, oh my...

00:55:03I drove several EV vehicles

00:55:06because you can imagine we did analysis

00:55:10like a Rivian.

00:55:11I drove all these cars.

00:55:12So Nardo is a testing facility

00:55:14in the heel of the boot of Italy

00:55:16that the Porsche bought.

00:55:18And you took me there at least four times.

00:55:21Yeah.

00:55:22And it's crazy because it's like scout's honor

00:55:26because there's the new GT3.

00:55:29Please don't take a picture of it.

00:55:32You're looking at everything.

00:55:33You see everything.

00:55:34And you guys have everything down there.

00:55:36Yeah. And you can imagine there is also a relationship

00:55:38when you are, for example,

00:55:39part of the same group that me, like CTO,

00:55:42if I ask to it, I can try the car,

00:55:44test the car, do a small lap.

00:55:46Means you perceive what happened in the market.

00:55:49Right, right, right, right.

00:55:51So when was the...

00:55:52Did you have any kind of...

00:55:55Basically, does performance matter anymore?

00:55:59You have these cars, you have a Model S Plaid

00:56:02that can go zero to 60 under two...

00:56:04Zero to a hundred kilometers in two seconds, right?

00:56:06Then Rimac is putting out EV, right?

00:56:08I spoke with Matt Rimac when we were at the...

00:56:16Pueblo Beach.

00:56:16Pueblo Beach, to see the change.

00:56:19We discussed because he was aware that I did Bugatti,

00:56:22blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:56:22And they say, I tested one of your car in Ardo.

00:56:26Matti Rimac bought Bugatti, yeah.

00:56:28And he asked me, and what are you...

00:56:31What was fantastic, the acceleration,

00:56:33and was fantastic, the panic,

00:56:34when I approached the first, the big corner.

00:56:37You know, what is the big corner, turn one.

00:56:40So I believe...

00:56:43So they do things different in Italy, like helmets.

00:56:46Eh.

00:56:49Mario is at the test driver.

00:56:50Fazzanito.

00:56:51Yeah, he looks like Franco Colombo.

00:56:53He's just like a bodybuilder, right?

00:56:55And a very quiet guy, just drives like a maniac.

00:56:58And like, you know, a German test driver,

00:57:01they get on the radio and they just talk,

00:57:03and they go really slow.

00:57:05This guy just goes as fast as he can go,

00:57:06and you got to follow him.

00:57:08So we're in this Centenario, which is 750 horsepower.

00:57:12Yes.

00:57:13And turn one, you're about 165, 170 miles an hour.

00:57:18Miles an hour.

00:57:19275 kilometers per hour.

00:57:22And that first time I did that was...

00:57:25And it's a radius that, unfortunately,

00:57:27have a free radius.

00:57:28Means you go out, out, out, and after in, in.

00:57:32And if you have a car heavier,

00:57:35you say the first radius is big, means I can control.

00:57:39The weight, you will never control,

00:57:40and you have real impression to go straight.

00:57:43And now, or you brake, or you are out.

00:57:45Right.

00:57:46It is safe.

00:57:47I mean, it's a huge amount of runoff,

00:57:49but it's very frightening.

00:57:51So what were you in when you had that feeling?

00:57:54You have impression that, let me say,

00:57:56after the emotional of the acceleration,

00:57:58you have a panic of the braking and the cornering.

00:58:01And for me, this is really something

00:58:03that is difficult to accept.

00:58:07At the end, I try in all my life

00:58:09to make a car that is balanced.

00:58:12Performante, for me, is Performante.

00:58:14And SVJ was the two masterpiece,

00:58:17because due to the ALA system,

00:58:19due to the rear-wheel steering,

00:58:20you have a car that do what you want.

00:58:24Tell me what I need to do, you do.

00:58:26And the car is full of you.

00:58:27Performante was really special.

00:58:29Performante for me is,

00:58:30I told also to a journalist that I asked,

00:58:32if in Nardo, my people took every time the time

00:58:36when I drive, because they want to know,

00:58:38and the car where I can be faster in Nardo track

00:58:41is the Performante.

00:58:42I can have SVJ and so,

00:58:44but the confidence of this car

00:58:45allowed you really to push more.

00:58:47And it's not a question of power.

00:58:49It's really, you never arrive at the limits

00:58:51of the power of the engine.

00:58:52You arrive at the limits of your capability.

00:58:55And this depending from how the car

00:58:58is able to follow you.

00:58:59And this is really what for me

00:59:01give the emotion of the car.

00:59:02So end of the day,

00:59:05it's how much control the car provides for you.

00:59:08It's not the pure speed.

00:59:10I feel like speed is becoming a commodity

00:59:13as everybody can deliver it.

00:59:15I have a discussion today with electric engine.

00:59:18You can have, how many horsepower do you want?

00:59:211.5 megawatts, two megawatts.

00:59:23Problem, I say every time,

00:59:25for how many time and to do what?

00:59:28Because you will never use to achieve the maximum speed

00:59:31because you can have for so short time

00:59:33that is impossible.

00:59:35And when you talk about acceleration,

00:59:37several times acceleration are calculated acceleration

00:59:40because after you have a tire,

00:59:41that is the fuse of the system.

00:59:44If you don't have others,

00:59:45you can have all the power that you want, you spin.

00:59:49And after, sure, the poor acceleration

00:59:51when you start the grip is unbelievable.

00:59:54It's like to be in a jet.

00:59:55Yeah.

00:59:56Okay.

00:59:57But to go straight is not,

00:59:59I think is not the goal of the super sports car.

01:00:01All right.

01:00:02We got to talk about this company you are now advising.

01:00:06So this is Eccentrica.

01:00:08Eccentrica.

01:00:09This looks like a centrica,

01:00:10but you pronounce both Cs.

01:00:12Italian, Eccentrica.

01:00:14And this is fundamentally,

01:00:16well, how do you characterize?

01:00:17What does Eccentrica do?

01:00:19Let me say, Eccentrica was,

01:00:21I was retired and I know very well the founder,

01:00:23Colombini, Emmanuel,

01:00:25because he was a guy that raised in our Super Trofeo.

01:00:29And he's really-

01:00:30I wish I would have known that

01:00:31before I went driving around with him.

01:00:32Okay.

01:00:34He raised in Super Trofeo.

01:00:35He have a sense of SV12

01:00:37and he's a collector also of Lamborghini,

01:00:39means he know very well Lamborghini.

01:00:41And when he approached me at the beginning of the year,

01:00:44I say, Maurizio, we are a startup.

01:00:47We are super into that.

01:00:48We want to do restomode business,

01:00:51but starting from a Diablo,

01:00:54we need somebody that guide us about what is,

01:01:00let me say, perceivable and mandatory to do

01:01:03if you want to re-update the Diablo

01:01:08at the today time,

01:01:11but not with electronic.

01:01:12Improving what was weak in the 90

01:01:15and was not possible to put.

01:01:17And it's like to say,

01:01:19in the 90, you dream to have something,

01:01:21but, or you don't have the money

01:01:22or the technology is not mature

01:01:23or something like this.

01:01:25And today we try to put in a car,

01:01:26means it's not only a reshape.

01:01:29If it's a reshape,

01:01:30it's no sense to have Maurizio like advisor.

01:01:33And for this was the side,

01:01:36they described me the wishes of the project.

01:01:41And for me was every way I arrived,

01:01:44I mentioned before in Lamborghini in 95.

01:01:47In 95 was the 30 anniversary Diablo SE,

01:01:52but I never personally work on the first Diablo,

01:01:55means I miss this four, five years.

01:01:58And today to work on this car for me

01:02:00is like to close the circle of Lamborghini.

01:02:03Right.

01:02:03Means all the car that I touch,

01:02:06I touch also from the beginning.

01:02:08And the Diablo was the only one

01:02:10that for me was a little bit,

01:02:12I drove several times, you can imagine.

01:02:15And I know the weak point of the Diablo,

01:02:18brake is the most perceivable.

01:02:21Especially the earlier cars.

01:02:23Yeah, in the early car till the 98

01:02:25when we introduced the ABS,

01:02:27but I was already, we introduced ABS

01:02:29and we put a bigger disc,

01:02:31but before was really a disc,

01:02:34let me say not in line

01:02:35with the performance of the car.

01:02:37The Chrysler disc, it was probably from...

01:02:39It was a time when Chrysler was

01:02:43and the approach of industrial company

01:02:45is also related to the cost.

01:02:47Yes, of course.

01:02:48And you remember,

01:02:50the cost is how much cost this,

01:02:51but we can use this that is in production

01:02:54cost much less and you reduce.

01:02:57I think what today is performed

01:03:00in the Eccentrica

01:03:02in term of starting point

01:03:04is really an actualization

01:03:06of the car of the 90

01:03:08with the technology

01:03:09that was at this time possible,

01:03:13but not for automotive.

01:03:14Also the interiors,

01:03:16the instrument cluster

01:03:18that is done electronically

01:03:19was not possible.

01:03:21But the decision was to use,

01:03:22for example, pictogram

01:03:24because this was a technology

01:03:25of the computer of the 90,

01:03:27but nobody use it in automotive

01:03:29at this time.

01:03:29So it's sort of...

01:03:30I got to go for a ride

01:03:31with the manual

01:03:32and it was really cool

01:03:34to watch the dash

01:03:35because it's kind of like

01:03:37how the display on the DeLorean

01:03:39and Back to the Future,

01:03:40it's like just big,

01:03:418-bit graphics.

01:03:43So that's what like the tire,

01:03:44temperature pressure

01:03:45and the oil pressure and everything

01:03:47is in this cool graphic.

01:03:48And then everything

01:03:49is just kind of updated

01:03:50with big 80s looking buttons.

01:03:52Period, correct.

01:03:53Yeah, but also big, big switches.

01:03:56And yeah, it seems really cool.

01:03:58And so it's basically,

01:04:00you could say like

01:04:01you start with the motor,

01:04:02the engine, I assume.

01:04:04New cams, new valves,

01:04:06throttle bodies, new intake.

01:04:08This was the weakness of the Diablo.

01:04:11Diablo have a body throttle

01:04:13that was mechanical.

01:04:14It means you have a cable

01:04:16and the beam that open.

01:04:18But what happened is that

01:04:19due to the fact

01:04:20that was a 5.7 liter,

01:04:22really too big body throttle.

01:04:24And when you have the classic

01:04:25playing with the accelerator,

01:04:27when you release the accelerator

01:04:29before that the valve is closed

01:04:31due to the friction,

01:04:32due to everything,

01:04:33you have time

01:04:33and you have a car that start

01:04:35to made up and down.

01:04:37This part was changed

01:04:39with the electronic body throttle

01:04:41with a new engine management system.

01:04:43And it's clear that

01:04:44when you remove the feet

01:04:45from accelerator,

01:04:45you have immediately the block

01:04:47and this give drivability.

01:04:48It means it's not that you go

01:04:50in counter phase

01:04:51when you accelerate

01:04:52and you release.

01:04:53What happened in the car

01:04:55like the original Diablo

01:04:57is that the risk is that

01:04:58when you play with accelerator,

01:05:00you are convinced to push

01:05:01and you have accelerator

01:05:03body throttle that close

01:05:05and you go in counter phase

01:05:07and you have the embarrassing jumping

01:05:09and it's like

01:05:10if you are not able to drive the car.

01:05:11Right.

01:05:12And then in the powers up,

01:05:14it goes from like 500 to 550 horsepower.

01:05:18Totally right.

01:05:19But what is main job

01:05:20of the new camshaft

01:05:21and new valve was

01:05:22to have a much more smooth

01:05:25power and torque curve

01:05:26that can be more progressive.

01:05:28And the other was that at this time,

01:05:31normally one of the most important parameter

01:05:33for the super sport car

01:05:34was the 0-100, 0-62 miles per hour.

01:05:38And what was the solution?

01:05:41Long gear.

01:05:41A long first gear

01:05:42that was able to achieve

01:05:44the maximum speed.

01:05:46But because in this way,

01:05:48you don't have a gear shift.

01:05:49Normally a gear shift of a good driver

01:05:51are 0.2 second.

01:05:53And this was a disaster

01:05:54because you lost the performance.

01:05:57For this, you made this long gear.

01:05:59But in terms of drivability,

01:06:02if you are in a traffic jump,

01:06:03you became crazy.

01:06:04Right.

01:06:05We have developed

01:06:06a completely new gearbox,

01:06:07six speed instead of five

01:06:09with a shorter gear.

01:06:11This is really a big investment

01:06:12if you think for a company

01:06:14like a chain trick.

01:06:15But they trust on the fact

01:06:17that they want the car

01:06:18must be perceivable from customer.

01:06:21And to give a reason

01:06:23why you spend money

01:06:24to have something updated today.

01:06:27So it's more than a Chrysler delete package, right?

01:06:31You're not just going out and taking all.

01:06:33I will never call like this.

01:06:34I have too much respect for Chrysler.

01:06:36Carbon fiber body panels.

01:06:38Yeah.

01:06:39And reshaped.

01:06:41And like what the reshape does,

01:06:42like on the front fenders.

01:06:43Yes.

01:06:44It's pulling air to cool the brakes.

01:06:46Yes.

01:06:46Which Diablo,

01:06:47they never thought about cooling the brakes.

01:06:49We took all the experience

01:06:50of a Diablo GT,

01:06:52of other car.

01:06:53We also,

01:06:54based on the Diablo GT,

01:06:55we enlarge the front track

01:06:57and also a rear track.

01:06:58This means to give much more square

01:07:00to the ground.

01:07:01And in terms of stability is important.

01:07:04With this new solution,

01:07:05we have also a completely new suspension.

01:07:08And for me was really

01:07:11one of the most important.

01:07:12We have adaptive damper.

01:07:14Means you can choose three different solution.

01:07:16In 90 was a dream.

01:07:17Only race car can have something like this.

01:07:20And also the fact that

01:07:21due to the new suspension,

01:07:23normally in the 90,

01:07:25you have a problem of mechanical steering rack

01:07:28that can create some trouble

01:07:29in the adjustment of the suspension.

01:07:31Now we have introduced

01:07:32one electronic power steering system

01:07:35that you can adjust it

01:07:36without to have any kind of trouble

01:07:38to the management of the suspension,

01:07:40mainly the steering.

01:07:41And this also in terms of handling

01:07:42is much more precise,

01:07:44much more easy to drive

01:07:46and less, let me say...

01:07:47You're forgetting one thing, though.

01:07:50The noise of that thing.

01:07:52Because it's not noisy, it's sound.

01:07:54Johnny, if you call noise, I have a problem.

01:07:58So, but we were talking

01:08:00before we started recording

01:08:01and like, you know,

01:08:02like you drive a Diablo SV around

01:08:04and in your mind's eye,

01:08:06it's really loud and ferocious.

01:08:08It's quite quiet.

01:08:09It's a quiet car.

01:08:10It's a nice sounding engine,

01:08:12but it just doesn't make any volume.

01:08:14Because it was made from

01:08:15under the American company.

01:08:17Yeah, but this thing, the V12...

01:08:22I think the V12 in principle

01:08:25has the best sound of the world.

01:08:27V12 is able to sing

01:08:29like no other engine.

01:08:30This car,

01:08:31and everyone picked it up on Instagram,

01:08:33they revved it at the quail

01:08:35and it blew everyone's iPhone mics apart.

01:08:37It couldn't even handle the sound.

01:08:39It's so crazy and loud.

01:08:41It was done with Capristo,

01:08:43a completely new exhaust system.

01:08:45Means we play a lot also in the muffler.

01:08:48Muffler in term of resonance inside.

01:08:51Because normally what you try to do

01:08:52is to filter and to create

01:08:55some bypass channel that dumping down.

01:08:58And what was the target

01:09:00was really to maintain

01:09:02as much as possible

01:09:03the division between the 12 spark.

01:09:05Means you hear really 12.

01:09:07Sometimes you try to filter too much

01:09:10and you like to lose some spark.

01:09:13And I think in the Eccentrica,

01:09:15the sound is unbelievable.

01:09:17The job that was done from Capristo

01:09:20is really outstanding.

01:09:22I gotta ask this.

01:09:24I heard that

01:09:25and I've also heard the Centenario.

01:09:27Which one's louder?

01:09:28I still can't believe

01:09:29the Centenario is a real thing.

01:09:36Let me say the Eccentrica

01:09:38can play the fact

01:09:40that it face the rule of emission of the 90.

01:09:44Ah, right.

01:09:45So you're right.

01:09:46This is the reason

01:09:47why I think the Restomode

01:09:50can be so cool today.

01:09:52Due to the fact that is a car already

01:09:55in the hand of a customer.

01:09:57They have a paper

01:09:59where the car is homologated

01:10:00in the 90, 91, 93.

01:10:03And they face and they accomplish

01:10:05with the rule of this time

01:10:07that today is out of the world.

01:10:10But till when will be possible

01:10:13is clearly that Restomode play this game.

01:10:15You don't have airbag in the car.

01:10:17You don't have several system

01:10:18that today are mandatory.

01:10:20But at the time when the car was homologated

01:10:22were really fully ready.

01:10:25It met the letter of the law

01:10:26in the early 90s.

01:10:28So, okay.

01:10:29Yeah.

01:10:29A couple of questions.

01:10:30You mentioned adjustable suspension.

01:10:32Is it MR?

01:10:33Is it spool valve?

01:10:35What's the type of suspension?

01:10:40Is adaptive suspension.

01:10:42Means you can really manage the suspension

01:10:45in three different positions

01:10:47to have comfort,

01:10:49standard and sportive.

01:10:51In this way,

01:10:51you can really change the behavior.

01:10:54If you are in a Diablo,

01:10:55in a Diablo you have one setup

01:10:57that is a mechanical.

01:10:58And it's clearly that the difference

01:11:00using in a road like here in the city

01:11:03or in a track is the same.

01:11:06Today...

01:11:06Well, I think what Ed's saying.

01:11:07It's electric dampers.

01:11:09We change the valve.

01:11:10You have a free and you have a valve

01:11:12and you change.

01:11:12This is adaptive suspension.

01:11:14Bilstein or KW.

01:11:16It's a state of the art.

01:11:17Today is normal.

01:11:18In the 90s it was impossible.

01:11:19How about the brakes?

01:11:21Brake is a 300.

01:11:22It's Brembo.

01:11:23Completely new brake disc.

01:11:24You have 360,

01:11:27380 in the front

01:11:28and 345 in the rear.

01:11:30Means it's a state of the art

01:11:32of braking system.

01:11:33380 in the front is like 16...

01:11:36I can do the math.

01:11:37It's big.

01:11:37It's a big number.

01:11:39And this is really something

01:11:40that made the difference.

01:11:42Because you can give the...

01:11:46Let me say the trust to the driver.

01:11:48It is able not only to stop

01:11:50with a really important power

01:11:52but not have fading problem

01:11:54if you use the car

01:11:55like a downhill or something like this.

01:11:57What was the size of the

01:11:58original Diablo brake?

01:12:00Ridiculous.

01:12:01I think it was...

01:12:02Undersized.

01:12:03Was 310 in the front

01:12:04and something less in the rear.

01:12:06Means it's really another...

01:12:08It's not some centimeter

01:12:10that only professional driver can perceive.

01:12:12It's something that is perceivable

01:12:13from every kind of customer.

01:12:15This is what I discussed also

01:12:18with Emmanuel and the other

01:12:20management of Eccentrica.

01:12:23It's important to release something

01:12:25that every customer can perceive

01:12:29in terms of difference.

01:12:31If I give a donor car a Diablo,

01:12:33when I give back the Eccentrica,

01:12:35they must say it's a different car.

01:12:38Means it's not only

01:12:40for professional driver

01:12:41but it's for daily driver

01:12:43to see that they have

01:12:44something completely new.

01:12:45This is fundamental.

01:12:46So that's a great lead-in

01:12:48to at least my last question on Eccentrica.

01:12:50So you're making 19 of them, correct?

01:12:52Yeah.

01:12:53And...

01:12:53It's called the V12.

01:12:54They're making 19 V12s.

01:12:5619 V12s.

01:12:57Do you have to have the donor car

01:12:59or does Eccentrica find the donor car?

01:13:01How does it work?

01:13:02In both sides.

01:13:03Eccentrica have already, let me say,

01:13:05a kind of perk

01:13:07where they can choose a donor car

01:13:09also based on the market.

01:13:11In some other car,

01:13:12it happened that some customer

01:13:14that have one, two Diablo.

01:13:16For me, it happened also this.

01:13:17They say, in one, I want to do this.

01:13:20But work in both sides.

01:13:22Eccentrica can reach the car

01:13:25or customer can have their own Diablo

01:13:27that want to reflect.

01:13:29Several customer have in the garage

01:13:32Diablo, Diablo SE, Diablo GT, Diablo SV.

01:13:35I got a friend with eight.

01:13:36Yeah.

01:13:37And today Diablo is still a car

01:13:41that is not a collectible car.

01:13:43It's still a good car

01:13:45but still in a price that is approachable.

01:13:48You can catch a Diablo this year

01:13:51around $200,000.

01:13:52Right.

01:13:53They haven't gone crazy yet.

01:13:55It's not crazy like other car.

01:13:57If you want to do something

01:13:58like a Countach, it's impossible.

01:13:59Well, it's possible.

01:14:02You made one car.

01:14:03If you have somebody that want,

01:14:05but it's one.

01:14:07I will just restress for a second.

01:14:08I know you can't say anything,

01:14:09but this one's called the V12.

01:14:12So the next car after 19,

01:14:14you might call it the V10.

01:14:16Right.

01:14:16So how much if you have...

01:14:19Let's say I come to you.

01:14:20I'm Johnny.

01:14:20I'm Rich Guy Johnny.

01:14:21I say, I want one of these.

01:14:22I do not own a Diablo.

01:14:25Yeah.

01:14:25How much will it cost to get one done?

01:14:29Completely finished.

01:14:30Yeah.

01:14:31Assuming that the donor car can cost...

01:14:34$200,000.

01:14:35At the end, the cost of the eccentric

01:14:39is more or less 1.35.

01:14:42Means at the end, you have with a little bit more

01:14:44of one and a half million eccentric,

01:14:48including also the donor car.

01:14:50And that's in line with,

01:14:51if you look at like the Gunther Works Turbo,

01:14:55the base price is $950,000,

01:14:56but they're leaving the factory.

01:14:57All of them are 1.3.

01:14:59The Singer Turbos are 1.5.

01:15:01So this Restomod market, it's not like...

01:15:03And remember, we are the only one

01:15:05that put a V12 naturally aspirated.

01:15:09I think is one of my, let me say,

01:15:14mainstream V12 naturally aspirated is a car,

01:15:18is an engine that will remain forever

01:15:21the masterpiece of the mechanical engineering.

01:15:24Did you sell any over during the Quayle or?

01:15:27Yeah.

01:15:28My friend that take care about commercials,

01:15:33they say yes.

01:15:33Okay.

01:15:34And I think the bridge will be another opportunity

01:15:38because the car will remain in the US

01:15:40because they will move.

01:15:41This is the bridge in the Hampton, New York.

01:15:43It's a show two weeks from now.

01:15:45Yeah, September.

01:15:46Yeah.

01:15:4612 or nine.

01:15:47This might air after the bridge, but yeah.

01:15:50Yeah, it should be.

01:15:51Jeff Einhorn and Shamita Boss' show, yeah.

01:15:54That's amazing.

01:15:56So I just, I have to do the last two questions.

01:15:58Oh, I was just, I just want to make the real quick point

01:16:02that California, well, let's say Norway is banning

01:16:07new gasoline powered cars, 2025.

01:16:10China, probably 2027.

01:16:12Europe's going to follow quickly.

01:16:13California, 2035.

01:16:1512 other states are going to copy that.

01:16:17So I see actually growth in Restomod

01:16:20because for exactly the reasons you said

01:16:22is you can get a brand new car, this Eccentrica,

01:16:25which has to follow 1991 laws.

01:16:28It doesn't have to follow 2035 laws.

01:16:30Correct.

01:16:31So I see there's a lot of potential here.

01:16:33And, you know, taking something, again,

01:16:35these are supposed to be performance cars.

01:16:37They still look that way.

01:16:39But, and again, I'm very lucky.

01:16:41I get to drive around in old Diablos.

01:16:43I have some friends that are very kind.

01:16:46You know, my little Toyota Corolla is quicker,

01:16:49handles better and all that.

01:16:51But you know what I mean?

01:16:51It doesn't look like a Lamborghini.

01:16:53So I think it's a cool thing.

01:16:56I think this is important.

01:16:59You cannot make a Lamborghini.

01:17:00Lamborghini is something different.

01:17:01You need, what is the scope,

01:17:03is to preserve the DNA of the line of Lamborghini.

01:17:07If you take the silhouette line and the transversal line,

01:17:10you perceive that is a Lamborghini.

01:17:12But the design of the detail of the components

01:17:16must be inspired from Lamborghini,

01:17:17but must be different.

01:17:18Otherwise, it's only to make a restoration job.

01:17:22And this was not the scope of Eccentrica.

01:17:24It's the reason because it was touched more or less everything

01:17:26apart the structural components of the car,

01:17:28like the roof, like the frame of the windscreen,

01:17:31because you cannot change this.

01:17:33Otherwise, it's a new car.

01:17:37You spoke very highly that the V12

01:17:39is a pinnacle of automotive technology.

01:17:42And Eccentrica is doing something, I think,

01:17:44similar to what Sasha Solepinov is doing.

01:17:48Did you get a chance to look at his Nilu 27?

01:17:51Sasha worked for me when he was in Lamborghini,

01:17:53means I met him.

01:17:55And it's clearly that, for me,

01:18:00the task is all what will be new must be homologated.

01:18:05And this is a big difference between a concept car

01:18:07and the homologation car.

01:18:09It's a discussion that we did when I was still in Lamborghini

01:18:13to dream, to make something exceptional easy.

01:18:18To homologate is another job.

01:18:20And I think I look the car of Sasha.

01:18:23It's really fantastic.

01:18:24I like a lot.

01:18:25I don't know what are the condition of this car means

01:18:29in terms of this.

01:18:30I wish that they were able to do, let me say,

01:18:33can be ready for homologation, put in this way.

01:18:37From the other side is if you want to homologate,

01:18:40how much compromise you must take to realize.

01:18:43So just real quick.

01:18:44So the first 15 are kind of track only.

01:18:47He's not using the word track only,

01:18:48but they're not homologated.

01:18:49But then he's doing 54 street versions

01:18:53that come after that, which will be compromised.

01:18:56It won't be as extreme, but you'll still have that.

01:18:58Big bumper, double beam.

01:19:00I live the same discussion with the Sesto Elemento.

01:19:05Yeah, right.

01:19:05Sesto Elemento was like to be in a go-kart

01:19:10with a V10, five liter, 1,000 kilo,

01:19:13and was like to be back at the origin

01:19:16of the Italian sport car.

01:19:19But it was not homologated.

01:19:21It was only for track use.

01:19:23And when you do for track use,

01:19:25if you look the compromise that you need to take

01:19:28to make eventually homologated, it's another car.

01:19:31Right.

01:19:32And after this is the issue of the game.

01:19:37I appreciate what Sasha did

01:19:39because it's really super cool.

01:19:41It's clearly that the job of homologation car

01:19:43will be completely different.

01:19:45I don't know about completely.

01:19:46I've talked to him about this.

01:19:48It doesn't have to change that much.

01:19:50Some things, yes.

01:19:52But I think everybody of us say,

01:19:55I prefer something different.

01:19:57But if I take the big picture of the car,

01:20:00I think is a good interpretation

01:20:02of what must be a super sport car.

01:20:04Okay.

01:20:05My last question.

01:20:07Temerario was the last project.

01:20:09Well, it was the last project.

01:20:10Was it the last project you worked on?

01:20:11I made the concept phase only.

01:20:13Okay.

01:20:14Okay.

01:20:14Can you tell us any secrets about the car

01:20:18we should look forward to when we drive it?

01:20:20Absolutely not.

01:20:21Because I never drove a car.

01:20:22And obviously, you must ask it to Ruben.

01:20:25That is a big friend.

01:20:26And I will never take, let me say,

01:20:29position that is not my position.

01:20:31If you talk about the past, everything.

01:20:34But I respect too much Lamborghini

01:20:37to do something wrong.

01:20:38Right.

01:20:39But Ruben, it was funny,

01:20:40because I remember when I heard you were leaving,

01:20:42I was like, well, they're really losing something.

01:20:45And then it's like, who's going to replace him?

01:20:47Ruben, who, before he got the job,

01:20:49went by Dr. Crazy official.

01:20:51Yeah, yeah.

01:20:52He was, let me say,

01:20:55he's an enthusiastic man about car.

01:20:57Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:20:58He's, I think, he faced the big job

01:21:02about the transition,

01:21:03because I think you know very well

01:21:06that every kilo more is one kilo of emotion less.

01:21:11Yes.

01:21:11Ah, that's good.

01:21:14I think, I told Edve, in not suspect time,

01:21:18that if you want to do a sports car,

01:21:20are not important 50 horsepower more

01:21:22that nobody perceive,

01:21:23are important 50 kilo less that everybody perceive.

01:21:26Right.

01:21:27And today, what happened is exactly vice versa.

01:21:31You penalize kilo in order to have more horsepower

01:21:33that, let me say, nobody is able to use,

01:21:36but the kilo everybody perceive.

01:21:38This is, I think, is the most important parameter

01:21:42of a super sport car.

01:21:44And I think nobody in these moments look,

01:21:47thinking that can be compensated with power.

01:21:52There's two guys that think that way.

01:21:53There's Gordon Murray and there's Adrian Newey.

01:21:56And they're the only ones that get it done.

01:21:57Now, that said,

01:21:58There's three.

01:21:59Well, I'm just saying, yeah.

01:22:01Well, you never had the dictatorial authority

01:22:05of Adrian Newey that like,

01:22:07we'd like five millimeters more shoulder room.

01:22:09Yes.

01:22:10No.

01:22:11Yeah, but this is a way where you cannot take a compromise.

01:22:15Otherwise, everybody take a compromise.

01:22:17When you have a team that engineering a car,

01:22:19you have a hundred people that work.

01:22:22And if you give a freedom to do what they want,

01:22:25everybody take more, more, more, more.

01:22:28And unfortunately, you need really to pull continuously the net

01:22:34if you want that the fish don't go out too much.

01:22:39That is a great final word.

01:22:41Yeah, we can end it there.

01:22:41That's very good.

01:22:42So, Dr. Reggiani.

01:22:46Thank you so much for coming on.

01:22:49We could have gone two hours longer just talking about this.

01:22:51We didn't even talk about it a lot.

01:22:53Like, worse.

01:22:54I know, but we'll have to have you back next time you're in town.

01:22:57I was a development engineer on Urus.

01:22:59Yes.

01:23:00I think the experience of Urus is something where is another story.

01:23:04But I think it's...

01:23:06Can I just tell one?

01:23:07This is one of my favorite stories.

01:23:09Because, you know, one of the tricks I learned in this business is

01:23:12when you talk to people building cars,

01:23:14it's very important to say, what did you benchmark, right?

01:23:18And so I asked him this.

01:23:20We're in Nardo, and this is like six months before.

01:23:22The Uruses that we're driving are camouflaged.

01:23:24Some aren't even finished, no interiors.

01:23:27I said, what did you benchmark?

01:23:28And he said, everything, you know, Bentayga, this, that, that, you know.

01:23:31And I said, and you asked me, you said, what was your favorite super SUV?

01:23:38I said, X6M.

01:23:40And you said, me too.

01:23:41And then he goes, look, and he had one there.

01:23:43You can't say you have one.

01:23:45But like, and that was my, you know, we've done a test of all of them.

01:23:49And you let me drive the X6M around the Nardo circuit,

01:23:52which is the best track in the world.

01:23:53And then the Urus, and it was like, wow, you beat it in every way you could beat.

01:23:58It was just crazy, the advancement.

01:24:01For me, was X6M was not, let me say, the best SUV,

01:24:05was the SUV that give to me more emotion.

01:24:09Yes.

01:24:09And I told, this is the car benchmark.

01:24:12We must be more emotional in all the field compared to this car.

01:24:15Yeah.

01:24:16And it was way quicker and lighter.

01:24:18And we don't discuss about Sterrato.

01:24:21No.

01:24:21Oh, whoa, oh, no, no, no, no.

01:24:23That was, okay, all right, all right.

01:24:25This was a child.

01:24:26That was, that was fun.

01:24:27Because that's when they put me on the phone with Domenicali.

01:24:30And he goes, what do you think?

01:24:31And I was like, build it, build the Sterrato.

01:24:33I don't know if I had anything to do with it, but I hope I did.

01:24:36All right, we'll have you back on.

01:24:38We'll go deep on those.

01:24:39But thank you again, Dr. Reggiani.

01:24:41Grazie a voi.

01:24:42Thank to you.

01:25:06The Inevitable Vodcast, brought to you by the all-electric Nissan Ariya.

01:25:10Inspired by the future.

01:25:12Designed for the now.

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