Future of Home Energy with GM Energy's Aseem Kapur & Wade Sheffer

MotorTrend

MotorTrend's Ed Loh & Jonny Lieberman sit down with GM Energy's VP

Transcript

00:00:00 Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.

00:00:04 Hi there, and welcome to another episode of The Inevitable.

00:00:19 This is-- come on, Ed, you're slacking.

00:00:21 This is Motor Trend's podcast, our vodcast

00:00:24 about the future of the car, the future of the automobile,

00:00:27 the future of your house.

00:00:28 That's right.

00:00:29 We've got some people here from GM Energy,

00:00:31 and they're going to tell us all about not only charging

00:00:34 cars at your house, but then selling stuff from your car

00:00:36 back to the grid, back to your home, back to your--

00:00:38 Vehicle to home.

00:00:39 V2H charging.

00:00:40 But before we get there, Ed's got a message from Nissan.

00:00:43 That is correct.

00:00:44 The Inevitable Vodcast is brought to you

00:00:46 by the all-electric Nissan Ariya,

00:00:48 inspired by the future, designed for the now.

00:00:51 And right now, we are going to pause on the questions you guys

00:00:56 submitted and just talk about something that happened--

00:00:58 Topical.

00:00:59 --very topical that we actually get into a little bit

00:01:01 in this episode of the podcast at the end, which

00:01:04 is Tesla just did some crazy stuff, a round of layoffs,

00:01:09 maybe two or three rounds of layoffs,

00:01:11 including the entire supercharging team

00:01:15 and the new product launch team.

00:01:17 So--

00:01:18 And you might be saying, oh, who cares

00:01:20 about the supercharging team, because I don't own a Tesla.

00:01:23 But if you're going to buy an EV because everybody's

00:01:26 going to start using this Tesla supercharger network,

00:01:28 this is huge.

00:01:29 This is insane.

00:01:30 It's the worst timing possible.

00:01:32 Real head-scratcher.

00:01:33 And there's a lot of theories as to why Tesla, why

00:01:37 Elon blew everybody out.

00:01:38 There was some cost-cutting maneuver, apparently.

00:01:42 And maybe some executives didn't take it seriously.

00:01:44 This has been widely reported as to why the supercharger team

00:01:47 got blown out.

00:01:48 But it was like 500 people.

00:01:50 And right at this juncture, where, as you know from

00:01:52 listening to our podcast, we're in this moment

00:01:54 where Ford just switched over and has started sending out

00:01:58 these NACS, N-A-C-S, adapters so that Ford vehicles can join.

00:02:01 Rivian's doing it.

00:02:02 Yep, Rivian's doing it.

00:02:03 GM, who we have in today--

00:02:05 Is about to.

00:02:06 They're about to do it.

00:02:07 They've got to figure out all the payment.

00:02:09 But what's the problem with that, Ed?

00:02:11 Well, you don't have anybody to call or talk to now,

00:02:13 apparently, at Tesla.

00:02:14 So--

00:02:14 Yeah, like, in other words, if you're General Motors

00:02:17 and you want to allow your customers to use

00:02:19 Tesla's supercharger network, there's

00:02:21 no one at Tesla you can get on the phone or email or anything.

00:02:24 Because there's no one.

00:02:25 They fired them all.

00:02:26 Which is-- I just--

00:02:28 if you-- like--

00:02:31 I don't know.

00:02:31 My theory-- I don't even have a theory.

00:02:34 But like, if you own a car company called Tesla that

00:02:38 makes EVs and like one of your big selling points

00:02:41 is the supercharger network--

00:02:43 It's such an advantage.

00:02:44 What are you doing?

00:02:45 Like, this is just shooting yourself in the foot.

00:02:46 And like, Tesla's aren't selling well

00:02:48 because their product line is old.

00:02:50 Everybody's coming out with a new product.

00:02:52 Brand loyalty doesn't really exist the way

00:02:55 people think it does.

00:02:57 And like, you fired the supercharger people

00:03:00 and the new car team?

00:03:02 New product launch team.

00:03:03 So--

00:03:03 Madness!

00:03:04 Yeah.

00:03:04 Madness!

00:03:05 One of the prevailing theories is

00:03:08 that this is all signs of Elon pivoting

00:03:10 really hard into robo-taxis, like abandoning

00:03:13 whatever the Model 2 was, the small car, and just going

00:03:15 straight to--

00:03:15 Nonsense.

00:03:16 --full autonomy.

00:03:17 But there's no full autonomy.

00:03:18 They don't have LIDAR.

00:03:19 They don't have radar.

00:03:20 They just announced that they're also--

00:03:21 they're taking away the steering wheel, the monitoring,

00:03:26 and the latest FSD upgrade.

00:03:28 So look, a lot's going on.

00:03:30 We have been trying to get Tanuchi, the woman who

00:03:34 is in charge of all the supercharging networks in,

00:03:37 maybe this will help.

00:03:38 No.

00:03:39 No, I saw her.

00:03:40 Did you see her LinkedIn nonsense she posted?

00:03:41 The least candid thing of all time.

00:03:44 Like, remember what we accomplished, people?

00:03:48 She probably got a nice package on the way out.

00:03:51 But that's like the engineer of the Titanic,

00:03:54 as the ship's sinking.

00:03:55 We built a hell of a boat.

00:03:56 It's like, it's all going down.

00:03:58 Hey, if you're listening, we'd still

00:04:00 like to have you on the podcast.

00:04:01 Define what Johnny says.

00:04:02 If you'll be candid.

00:04:03 If you're going to put out that LinkedIn nonsense now.

00:04:06 OK.

00:04:07 Let's pivot to who we're talking about today.

00:04:09 As Johnny mentioned, we have two gentlemen from GM Energy.

00:04:13 We have the vice president of GM Energy, Wade Sheffer,

00:04:17 and the head of product and revenue, Asim Kapoor.

00:04:19 And they're going to talk to us all about a new product GM

00:04:23 Energy is rolling out that essentially allows

00:04:27 you to power your home via GM vehicles and so much more.

00:04:34 So let's get into it with Wade and Asim.

00:04:38 Wade Sheffer, Asim Kapoor, thank you so much

00:04:40 for coming on The Inevitable.

00:04:42 That's a great joke.

00:04:43 That's my great joke.

00:04:45 We will already have dispensed with the introduction

00:04:48 about who you guys are.

00:04:49 And what you're here for.

00:04:51 So why don't you tell us as crisply as you can

00:04:57 why you're in Beverly Hills and this GM Energy project,

00:05:02 this house that you have set up shop in.

00:05:05 Either, whoever.

00:05:06 Wade.

00:05:07 Wade.

00:05:07 OK.

00:05:08 So why we're here in LA, one, is to really showcase

00:05:14 the true capability of General Motors Energy

00:05:17 in the product that we have called the vehicle

00:05:19 to home enablement bundle.

00:05:22 Truly to be able to export this power from a vehicle

00:05:27 and power a home without worry.

00:05:31 Really, this is what it is.

00:05:32 And beyond that, I would just tell you

00:05:34 is that General Motors looks at energy in a very different way

00:05:38 maybe than others.

00:05:39 It's a fully comprehensive ecosystem.

00:05:43 And so we, GM Energy, play a very critical role

00:05:45 in that entire ecosystem.

00:05:48 OK.

00:05:49 And you have-- so you have a house.

00:05:51 Apparently, it might have been Dean Martin's old house.

00:05:54 Is that the word?

00:05:55 Something like that?

00:05:56 I'm not sure.

00:05:56 OK.

00:05:56 But I believe so.

00:05:57 Because by the way, everything in LA

00:05:59 used to belong to Dean Martin.

00:06:00 Yeah, right.

00:06:00 I know where his old bar is.

00:06:01 I did see some Dean Martin artwork.

00:06:03 So you're probably right.

00:06:05 A beautiful house, updated.

00:06:07 And you have some charging--

00:06:11 some of the vehicle to home, V to H, as we will shorten it.

00:06:14 Yeah, V to H.

00:06:15 Some of the GM Energy V to H hardware installed,

00:06:17 and two or three vehicles to showcase the ability to--

00:06:24 for the V to send E to the H. Vehicle

00:06:27 to send energy to the house.

00:06:29 That's--

00:06:29 That's excellent.

00:06:30 Yes?

00:06:30 OK.

00:06:31 Yes.

00:06:33 What is-- what is the product?

00:06:37 And I'll ask this to Asim.

00:06:38 Right, thank you.

00:06:38 Specifically.

00:06:39 Because as the head of product and revenue, Asim Kapoor,

00:06:41 what exactly are-- what you selling?

00:06:44 Yeah, so it's-- essentially, it's

00:06:46 got like three major components.

00:06:47 It's a charger that allows you to charge the vehicle,

00:06:50 as well as discharge the vehicle.

00:06:52 It's got an inverter that allows you

00:06:55 to convert the energy that's the DC output from the vehicle

00:06:58 into an AC output that the house can consume.

00:07:01 And it's got a smart panel that actually talks to your panel,

00:07:04 so you can control what sources of energy

00:07:07 you want to power at home.

00:07:08 So essentially, simply put, there's three things to it.

00:07:11 You've got the charger that takes

00:07:13 the energy from the vehicle.

00:07:15 You've got the inverter that converts the energy

00:07:17 into an output that the home can consume.

00:07:19 And then you've got a panel that allows

00:07:21 you to optimize the essential loads that you're

00:07:23 going to service off that.

00:07:25 Now, how smart is this panel?

00:07:26 Like, can you-- is it like down to the outlet?

00:07:29 Like, hey, that outlet that I keep my phone charger plugged

00:07:31 into, like, I don't plug my phone in at night

00:07:34 till I get in bed at 11.

00:07:35 So just from like 8 AM to 11 PM, keep that outlet turned off?

00:07:40 Is that kind of smart?

00:07:41 So it's fully configurable.

00:07:44 When the system's installed, you can actually

00:07:46 pick the circuits that you want to have charged

00:07:48 from your vehicle and energized.

00:07:50 Oh, wow.

00:07:51 Oh, OK.

00:07:52 So it's-- OK, is that--

00:07:53 OK, I got you.

00:07:53 Yeah, so it's configured at installation.

00:07:56 And you have the opportunity to be able to decide.

00:07:58 So if you decide that you're going

00:08:00 to power your home, all the essential load, which

00:08:02 includes all the lighting in the home and all the appliances,

00:08:07 anything that you need in order to be able to survive

00:08:10 an outage, you can then configure that,

00:08:12 and the vehicle will power that via the panel.

00:08:15 And the panel's actually smart enough also

00:08:16 to be able to recognize that it's isolated from the grid.

00:08:20 Because we want to make sure our system is safely operating

00:08:23 in a scenario where we're not sending power back

00:08:25 to the grid.

00:08:25 And that's a really, really key aspect of vehicle-to-home

00:08:29 and ensuring that the vehicle is powering your home.

00:08:32 All right, so let's say you have solar panels at your home.

00:08:35 And you generate your own energy,

00:08:36 and you shove it into your car.

00:08:39 And then you can say, OK, at night, go ahead now

00:08:41 and pump it back out of my car and power

00:08:43 the TV and the lights.

00:08:45 Yeah.

00:08:45 You can do that.

00:08:46 So we will be launching the ability later this year

00:08:49 to be able to interoperate the system with solar.

00:08:53 We're also launching a new product

00:08:55 called the Power Bank product.

00:08:56 It's our stationary storage product

00:08:58 that can be bundled with the whole system.

00:09:01 So whether you decide to power your EV from the solar energy

00:09:06 or your stationary storage box, you

00:09:08 have the flexibility to be able to store the energy

00:09:10 from the solar energy that you're producing,

00:09:13 power your home.

00:09:14 Or in California where you live, you

00:09:16 can also send the power back to the utility.

00:09:18 So the intention is that we want to make

00:09:20 the EV as interoperable with your solar and storage system

00:09:24 and give the customer the flexibility

00:09:26 to be able to use the vehicle for the first time ever

00:09:29 for dual use beyond mobility.

00:09:32 So if you're playing at home, critically,

00:09:35 this initial product, there's no battery to it.

00:09:38 The battery is the car.

00:09:40 That's correct.

00:09:40 Right.

00:09:41 So which is interesting.

00:09:44 Also, how does this work with, say,

00:09:48 the charger the vehicle would already come with?

00:09:52 This is like the step up from that.

00:09:53 That's correct.

00:09:54 Is that right?

00:09:54 Yes.

00:09:55 So typically, the vehicles that we sell today

00:09:58 that customers buy comes with a unidirectional charger.

00:10:00 So it allows for energy to flow one way.

00:10:04 And that is to power the vehicle.

00:10:06 In order for us to enable this capability,

00:10:08 we have a bidirectional charger that allows

00:10:10 for power to flow both ways.

00:10:12 And that's the PowerShift charger.

00:10:14 That's the name of the product.

00:10:15 And the customer has the option to actually buy that from us.

00:10:19 And they don't have to buy the whole system at once.

00:10:21 Right?

00:10:22 They can buy the charger first.

00:10:23 Piece by piece.

00:10:23 Correct.

00:10:24 And then they can build a modular system over time.

00:10:27 Our intention is to really get the customer

00:10:28 comfortable with the fact that vehicle discharging is

00:10:32 a safe and really, really value-added opportunity

00:10:37 for them, whether they want to power their home.

00:10:39 Or what's also the opportunity is the vehicle to load.

00:10:41 Right?

00:10:42 So you can power devices off your vehicle.

00:10:44 And that we offer what we call portable power

00:10:47 off the vehicle itself.

00:10:48 So both of those options are available to the customer.

00:10:50 And as EVs are becoming more mainstream,

00:10:53 we want to get our customers comfortable with discharging

00:10:56 their EV.

00:10:57 Sure.

00:10:58 This is-- that actually, I think, is a key point.

00:11:01 Because this is some next level thinking.

00:11:04 Right?

00:11:04 We're still-- the point of the podcast

00:11:07 is sort of talking about this transition.

00:11:09 And as I like to joke, because we

00:11:11 get a lot of raging comments about, oh, EVs,

00:11:13 and oh, you can't go anywhere, and they don't

00:11:16 operate in cold weather.

00:11:17 All the half-truths are untruths.

00:11:19 General Motors has stopped doing EVs

00:11:21 and is only working on hybrids.

00:11:22 Right.

00:11:23 That's the latest, right?

00:11:24 That's the latest one.

00:11:25 Well, we can tell you right here and now that that's false.

00:11:28 Oh, oh, hey, breaking news.

00:11:30 Perfect.

00:11:30 Breaking news.

00:11:31 There we go.

00:11:31 You know, Instagram's not going to believe you.

00:11:33 Oh, man.

00:11:34 OK, all right.

00:11:35 But--

00:11:35 We can show them.

00:11:37 Getting people to think beyond-- right now,

00:11:39 the freak out is like, well, can I get enough?

00:11:41 How am I charging it?

00:11:42 And if you're lucky enough to be able to put up

00:11:44 a charger at your house--

00:11:46 I think most people are just thinking of that unidirectional,

00:11:48 just like energy from the house into the car,

00:11:52 and not thinking that, hey, I could also send it

00:11:54 the other way, and it would be advantageous at certain parts

00:11:58 of the day.

00:11:58 Especially if you're generating energy at home.

00:12:00 Right.

00:12:00 So like now, in California at least, all new homes,

00:12:05 if you build a new home, solar panels.

00:12:06 Has to happen.

00:12:08 And so you're-- and in businesses, too.

00:12:10 You're going to be generating power.

00:12:13 Like, hey, stick it somewhere.

00:12:14 That's even a step beyond.

00:12:16 Can we just-- this is called time of use load shifting,

00:12:18 right, is what we're talking about.

00:12:19 Can we just talk about that a little bit?

00:12:21 Like, you guys have--

00:12:23 you guys, GM, came to market with some of the earliest

00:12:28 and some of the largest battery electric vehicles.

00:12:32 I'm talking specifically Hummer.

00:12:33 Hummer EV had a huge battery.

00:12:35 Silverado.

00:12:35 Silverado's got a massive battery, right?

00:12:38 And that unlocks, obviously, capabilities

00:12:41 from the car, and the range, and everything you can do with it.

00:12:44 But then, again, this next level piece,

00:12:46 which is once you realize you don't

00:12:49 need to charge every night--

00:12:50 in fact, depending on your commute,

00:12:52 you might need to charge once a week.

00:12:54 Or with that battery, once every couple of weeks.

00:12:56 Yeah.

00:12:57 This is what we've heard.

00:12:58 Those are real.

00:12:59 Right.

00:12:59 No, no, no.

00:13:00 You have this amazing battery pack in your vehicle,

00:13:04 which you can use for other things,

00:13:05 including potentially saving you money running your house,

00:13:10 running appliances, and just living--

00:13:12 That's correct.

00:13:12 --if you shift the usage.

00:13:15 So I'm doing a terrible job of explaining.

00:13:17 No, no, no.

00:13:17 Would one of you gentlemen like to explain the thinking here?

00:13:20 Yeah.

00:13:21 I'm going to step back just for one second,

00:13:23 then I'll turn it to Asim to talk about that managed

00:13:25 charging.

00:13:25 Just as you share with us, Johnny, the app that you had,

00:13:28 this is also our intention.

00:13:29 Our intention is to be able to give--

00:13:31 Before we shared my solar panel app--

00:13:32 Yeah, your solar panel app.

00:13:33 Yeah, I can see my total solar usage since 2020.

00:13:37 So exactly right.

00:13:38 So how does this all come together?

00:13:41 You want to make it seamless and very easy for the customer

00:13:44 to understand, because energy is complex, especially it's

00:13:49 first-- it's the first time maybe they're seeing it,

00:13:51 experience it, using it.

00:13:53 But make it very easily understood

00:13:55 in the palm of their hand.

00:13:57 So those DIYers that want to learn and understand deeper,

00:14:01 they have that ability.

00:14:02 But those we would like to, as GM Energy, be, hey,

00:14:06 we're here to help you understand and make

00:14:09 it easy for you.

00:14:10 So through this app, this is what we have available to them

00:14:12 as well.

00:14:13 So in terms of that managed charging,

00:14:15 maybe then Asim can talk a little bit about that

00:14:17 so you can understand what's going on,

00:14:19 and in very simple terms.

00:14:22 So I think the way I would probably simplify this

00:14:24 is there's the opportunity for the customer

00:14:26 to save money and make money.

00:14:28 And saving money is very straightforward.

00:14:30 Can you get the EV to respond to the price signals on the grid?

00:14:34 So when the energy prices are high,

00:14:36 you don't want the EV to charge.

00:14:37 You want it to charge when the prices are low.

00:14:39 So how can the EV automatically respond to those price signals

00:14:42 on the grid?

00:14:43 So to the point that Wade just made,

00:14:45 we are delivering this integrated digital experience

00:14:48 between the infotainment system in the car

00:14:50 and the app that comes with the car that allows the EV

00:14:53 to be able to respond.

00:14:54 And we have hundreds of our EVs enrolled

00:14:56 in different programs across the country with utilities

00:14:58 that allow our customers to take advantage of those programs

00:15:01 that utilities are running, what users

00:15:02 call the time of use programs.

00:15:04 So that's the first starting point.

00:15:06 And real quick, just to re-stress,

00:15:08 something we talked about with the Mobility House guys, who

00:15:10 say hello, by the way.

00:15:12 Like 95% of the time, your car's not moving.

00:15:15 Yes, absolutely.

00:15:17 Like my wife and I, for example, we have a big EV,

00:15:19 and we both mostly work from home.

00:15:22 And a typical day, maybe we run the kids to school twice

00:15:26 and go to the grocery store.

00:15:27 We use a kilowatt from the car.

00:15:31 It gets hot.

00:15:31 We could run the AC off the car if we wanted to.

00:15:35 Well, and then which comes back to this time of use, right?

00:15:38 And this is where I think many Americans are like, wow,

00:15:41 look at my power bill.

00:15:42 Like, what are you making me do here?

00:15:44 A lot of people, depending on where you live,

00:15:46 you might be on a rate plan from your utility

00:15:49 where you're charged different rates depending

00:15:53 on whether it's off peak, peak.

00:15:55 I have a super off peak.

00:15:56 I have some weird stuff out here.

00:15:58 Yeah, we have three.

00:15:58 But typically, I think it's what, 4 to 9 PM?

00:16:01 4 PM to 9 PM is considered like the peak usage time.

00:16:04 It's when everybody comes home, turn the TV on,

00:16:06 get the oven--

00:16:07 Do the laundry.

00:16:07 Yeah, all the appliances.

00:16:08 All the kids are home.

00:16:09 Everyone's using different devices.

00:16:10 Cool the house, heat the house.

00:16:12 At that minute when the rates are the highest,

00:16:15 you might be wise to use a different source

00:16:18 of electricity, of energy, whether it

00:16:20 comes from a storage battery, from your solar panels--

00:16:23 Or your car.

00:16:24 Or your car.

00:16:25 OK.

00:16:25 Yeah.

00:16:26 So the idea there is really the fact

00:16:27 that we give the customer the optionality.

00:16:29 And 85% of the battery capacity on a given day is untapped.

00:16:34 So as you can now save that energy,

00:16:36 charge the car when the prices are low,

00:16:37 the grid is not congested, and then discharge the car

00:16:41 to take--

00:16:42 whether you want to run the dishwasher,

00:16:44 or you want to cool your home down.

00:16:45 So when you come back home, now you're

00:16:47 taking all that energy off the grid.

00:16:49 So you're helping the grid be more resilient,

00:16:51 be more stable, also giving the customers a choice

00:16:54 to pick the options.

00:16:55 Because up until now, they haven't really

00:16:57 had the option to be able to use their car for more

00:16:59 than anything else, so beyond driving.

00:17:01 So that's the fundamental premise around how

00:17:03 you save money.

00:17:04 Where our aspirations are that where we want to go with this

00:17:07 is that we want to be able to give the customers the freedom

00:17:11 to then also sell the energy back into the grid.

00:17:13 So your solar system can fully interoperate with the EV.

00:17:18 And then as you're saving that excess energy on the EV

00:17:21 at points in the future when there is a need by the grid,

00:17:24 can you then discharge that power back into the grid

00:17:26 and essentially help grid stabilization?

00:17:29 And more importantly, the fundamental use case

00:17:32 is just outages.

00:17:33 We've close to over $150 billion that the United States loses

00:17:37 just in power outages in a given year.

00:17:39 And how do we give the customers--

00:17:41 and the duration of the outage can be

00:17:43 anywhere from hours to days.

00:17:45 And with a battery pack on a Silverado,

00:17:48 and on any given average use, you

00:17:50 can power your home for up to three days,

00:17:52 or as long as 21 days.

00:17:54 It depends on the type of load you select.

00:17:57 So turn on the AC.

00:17:58 That's correct.

00:17:59 So if you just run the fridge and the lights.

00:18:00 In the middle of winter, you're just

00:18:01 running fridge and lights, then it can last a lot longer.

00:18:04 It might be different in the summer,

00:18:06 but you can easily get a couple of days out of that EV

00:18:10 and still preserve at least 20% state of charge.

00:18:12 So we're pretty excited about this technology.

00:18:15 We are thrilled that we have been

00:18:17 able to take a very customer-centric view

00:18:21 and how we reduce the complexity.

00:18:23 And I think you were going earlier.

00:18:25 Most of us don't know what our energy bill looks like.

00:18:27 We don't know when all of these rates are.

00:18:29 Automatic bill pay.

00:18:30 Yeah.

00:18:31 Right.

00:18:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:32 And we want to take away that complexity for the customer.

00:18:35 So it's a fully integrated digital experience.

00:18:38 And essentially, the EV is responding

00:18:40 to these changes that are happening in the grid.

00:18:43 And we allow the customer to set and forget.

00:18:45 And that's really the intention, that we

00:18:47 want to make sure that our products are differentiated,

00:18:50 where EVs provide that value.

00:18:52 OK, let's say--

00:18:53 Well, the big question.

00:18:55 I got lots of big questions.

00:18:56 I got lots of questions.

00:18:57 How much?

00:18:58 We got the bidirectional charger.

00:19:00 We got an inverter.

00:19:01 We got a smart panel to start.

00:19:02 That's the basic plan.

00:19:04 I want to talk about battery and solar later on.

00:19:06 But what is this going to cost the guy off the street

00:19:10 and is it directly connected with purchasing--

00:19:14 you have to buy a GM vehicle, right?

00:19:16 Is that incumbent on this?

00:19:17 It doesn't work with others or will--

00:19:19 For now.

00:19:19 For now?

00:19:20 Yeah, for now.

00:19:21 OK, let's start with the pricing.

00:19:22 Yeah, so we've launched an e-commerce website,

00:19:26 our platform where you can actually

00:19:27 go and secure these resources called gmenergy.gm.com.

00:19:30 So we'd love for you to check it out.

00:19:32 And the product price ranges around $7,500

00:19:35 for the whole package.

00:19:36 So between the power shift charger, the inverter,

00:19:39 and the panel, and there's a small component

00:19:41 called the dock start battery that

00:19:42 comes with it just to keep everything alive

00:19:44 in the event of an outage.

00:19:45 That's not crazy.

00:19:46 So I'm just thinking back to when

00:19:48 I had to put a new panel in anyways.

00:19:50 So I think all in, it was like $7,000

00:19:53 to get my charger installed.

00:19:55 And that was a new panel, installing the panel,

00:19:58 then the wiring, and then--

00:19:59 That's hardware.

00:20:00 Installation is--

00:20:00 Installation is on top.

00:20:02 But that was a unidirectional charger that you're talking about.

00:20:03 Unidirectional charger.

00:20:04 But again, I mean, yeah, the installation

00:20:06 was like $400 or $500 out of the $7,000.

00:20:08 Yeah.

00:20:09 Oh, OK.

00:20:09 It was the equipment was a lot of money.

00:20:11 Oh, OK.

00:20:12 So the installation--

00:20:13 Well, there's the panel.

00:20:14 It depends.

00:20:15 It depends where your box is.

00:20:16 It depends where you're trying to put it.

00:20:17 I needed a new panel.

00:20:18 How much conduit's got to run?

00:20:19 My house was built in 1924.

00:20:21 The panel's from 1924.

00:20:23 They said, get a new panel.

00:20:24 And this is the point.

00:20:25 And so, Ed, you mentioned the one component, right?

00:20:28 Installation.

00:20:29 So all the pricing's very open, very clear, and with no excuses.

00:20:33 Installation's really murky.

00:20:34 Well, no.

00:20:35 I mean, and this is--

00:20:36 To be honest with you, actually, our e-commerce site,

00:20:39 our intention-- keep in mind, our intention--

00:20:42 and it's not an intent.

00:20:43 It's a reality-- is that we want our customers to have

00:20:47 an experience like none other, from the point at which they

00:20:50 say, I'm choosing not only to buy the EV,

00:20:53 but I also would like this product as well.

00:20:56 So from that initial intention is that we, GM Energy,

00:20:58 are absolutely going to give them a concierge service all

00:21:01 the way through the process.

00:21:03 But you can-- we're doing that.

00:21:05 You're always going to be-- have that brand, GM Energy.

00:21:07 We got your back.

00:21:08 Don't worry about it.

00:21:08 Something were to occur, like even in your situation,

00:21:11 something were to happen, gives who you're calling.

00:21:12 And it's GM Energy, right?

00:21:13 Right.

00:21:14 So you're always going to have that single point of contact.

00:21:16 There should be no worry in your mind.

00:21:18 We take this on.

00:21:19 But specifically to the installation,

00:21:21 we also then partner up with folks

00:21:24 that understand this business and understand it extremely

00:21:26 well and have been in tens of thousands of homes.

00:21:29 So in our e-commerce site, we make it very simple.

00:21:33 Whether it's at midnight or 3 o'clock in the morning

00:21:35 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon, you can actually go in there

00:21:38 and have a process to where it will guide you

00:21:42 on what pictures to take and things of this nature,

00:21:44 ask you a few questions.

00:21:46 And they'll be able to get back with you a quote.

00:21:48 And our intent would be that that quote is very, very close

00:21:51 to what you'd expect.

00:21:53 That being said is that Qumeric is the company in which we

00:21:56 partnered with.

00:21:56 We made it very open into the market.

00:21:59 They're very strategic with us in this regard.

00:22:01 And so we partner up to ensure that they

00:22:03 have the same mindset.

00:22:04 We're only going to partner with those

00:22:05 that have the same mindset as us.

00:22:07 That customer absolutely is the most critical element

00:22:09 in all of this.

00:22:10 They need to be 100% satisfied.

00:22:12 So every case is different.

00:22:14 Whether your home is built in 1924

00:22:16 or whether you're a new construction,

00:22:18 there are going to be different codes.

00:22:19 There are going to be different things.

00:22:20 But in general, we have the ability

00:22:22 for each and every customer to be

00:22:24 able to put their information in a very simplistic way

00:22:26 to get the best high quality quote they possibly can.

00:22:28 But you always need a new panel, right?

00:22:31 No.

00:22:32 Not necessarily.

00:22:34 I mean, OK, so I put--

00:22:37 well, I moved.

00:22:38 But in the older house, we had a 100 amp panel.

00:22:41 And it's a small house.

00:22:43 So when I put in--

00:22:44 we put in a wall box charger.

00:22:47 I had three electricians come by.

00:22:49 And each gave a quote.

00:22:51 And it was great.

00:22:51 And one guy's like, you got to upgrade the whole thing.

00:22:54 It's going to be $8,000.

00:22:56 You got to run new conduit to the roof.

00:22:57 And you had all new grounding on the side.

00:22:59 Other guy's like, hey, you're fine.

00:23:01 I'll pull these two fuses.

00:23:03 Put a big one here.

00:23:04 You're good.

00:23:04 And the other guy's like, you could--

00:23:07 I don't know.

00:23:08 I wouldn't recommend just doing it as long--

00:23:10 maybe upgrade your fridge, too.

00:23:12 So of course, I went with the cheapest option.

00:23:14 And it worked out fine.

00:23:15 Until the house burned down.

00:23:15 Did you get the new fridge?

00:23:16 Right.

00:23:17 No, it worked out fine.

00:23:18 But my understanding is, for a lot of the EV chargers,

00:23:24 200 amp minimum is kind of where you need to be.

00:23:26 But then beyond that, if it's going to do all the load

00:23:29 balancing of the ground, that's where the smart portion comes

00:23:32 in, right?

00:23:33 So you're right.

00:23:34 I think if for the charger, PowerShift charger

00:23:36 is rated at 19.2 kW, kilowatt hour.

00:23:39 And that requires a 200 amp service.

00:23:42 And that's what you want.

00:23:43 That's quick.

00:23:43 Yeah.

00:23:44 Because it's fast charging.

00:23:45 It allows you to be able to power your vehicle

00:23:47 very quickly.

00:23:48 And also, the discharge rate is pretty high.

00:23:50 So you can discharge the vehicle at 9.6 kilowatt hour.

00:23:53 A typical average consumption in a home

00:23:55 is anywhere 2 to 3 kilowatt hours in an hour.

00:23:59 So it's got like three times the capacity to be able to run.

00:24:02 So for those reasons, yes, you may need a panel upgrade,

00:24:06 depending on what the size of your service is.

00:24:09 But where we are, again, leaning in

00:24:11 as part of our product development

00:24:13 and as part of the next generation of the product cycle

00:24:15 is that we're looking to significantly improve

00:24:17 the cost curve and through integration

00:24:19 with smart panel firms.

00:24:21 So there's a host of OEMs that are entering the space

00:24:24 on how you can optimize for that constraint

00:24:26 where you do not have to make the investment in upgrading

00:24:28 the panel and where the smart panels are headed.

00:24:31 So our vision is, can you have an integrated product that

00:24:34 actually reduces the footprint?

00:24:35 Instead of having to buy five different devices,

00:24:39 how can you shrink the footprint so it can be all in one?

00:24:42 That's where we see the future.

00:24:44 And that's where we're headed and how

00:24:45 we want to unlock that capability for our customers.

00:24:48 Let me ask you something about that.

00:24:50 Because Motortrend, we've been now testing EVs now

00:24:53 for a few years.

00:24:54 And actually, a number of our staffers have installed.

00:24:56 We've been using home installation

00:24:59 through our staffers to test third-party chargers.

00:25:02 So I got a wall box.

00:25:03 We got a couple of charge points floating around here

00:25:05 and in Michigan.

00:25:08 So I charge a VW.

00:25:09 I got a Hummer over the weekend.

00:25:12 I can still charge anybody.

00:25:15 Yeah, that's correct.

00:25:16 100%.

00:25:17 But the discharge will have to come later?

00:25:20 Or you guys are trying to work that out?

00:25:22 How does that work?

00:25:23 Yeah, so essentially, you can charge any of the GM vehicles.

00:25:28 You can charge any non-GM vehicles off the charger.

00:25:30 Through CCS and coming NACS?

00:25:33 Yes, in the very near future, when

00:25:35 the next adapter is available, you'll be able to do that.

00:25:38 For discharging, we have four vehicles

00:25:40 that are actually compatible with this system.

00:25:42 We have the Silverado.

00:25:44 In the very near future, we'll also

00:25:45 have Equinox, Blazer, and the Lyric.

00:25:47 They'll be capable as well.

00:25:48 We're going to announce that later in the year

00:25:50 when those vehicles are ready.

00:25:52 And those are discharging.

00:25:53 And essentially, the way our technology works

00:25:56 is it's the communication standard between the vehicle

00:25:58 talking to the charger.

00:26:00 And that also is part of the safety mechanism

00:26:03 we have in place.

00:26:04 And we use that communication standard.

00:26:06 In the future, the industry is migrating

00:26:08 towards an industry standard, which is the ISO 15118.2.

00:26:14 Once that standard is in place, then any vehicle

00:26:16 can talk to our charger.

00:26:18 OK, so in other words, I lease a Silverado for three years.

00:26:22 And then I say, hey, you know what?

00:26:24 I'm going to get a Lightning.

00:26:25 I have the GM Energy stuff installed at home.

00:26:29 The theory is--

00:26:30 It'll literally shut off.

00:26:32 So I don't know if that Lightning would work.

00:26:35 I have a better option for you.

00:26:38 But you know what I'm saying.

00:26:40 So we have many options for you.

00:26:42 But that's the dream is that when the ISO standard comes

00:26:46 into play, it won't matter what the vehicle is.

00:26:48 If you have GM Energy at home, you

00:26:51 can go bidirectional with any vehicle that's

00:26:53 capable of going bidirectional.

00:26:54 So when you go from that Silverado

00:26:56 to that Cadillac Lyric that your wife has been looking for,

00:26:59 no problem.

00:27:00 It's seamless.

00:27:00 You just pull in, seamless.

00:27:02 She wants an Escalade IQ.

00:27:04 No, she's very happy with her Rivian.

00:27:08 I'm not surprised.

00:27:09 She probably hasn't test driven one of our vehicles yet.

00:27:12 Look, I was very happy.

00:27:14 I've heard you speak about it before.

00:27:15 So that's why I said I'm not surprised.

00:27:17 She's very happy.

00:27:19 Another thing I would just--

00:27:19 Weirdly happy with it.

00:27:21 Orally happy that she's happy.

00:27:23 No, she said, I got a new car the other day.

00:27:26 And she's like, would it be weird if we got two Rivians?

00:27:28 And I'm like, really?

00:27:29 She's like, well--

00:27:31 So yeah, she's into it.

00:27:34 But anyways.

00:27:34 Anyways.

00:27:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:36 I think one of the other things I would just probably add it,

00:27:38 in terms of like, look, why we think our products--

00:27:40 the customers are going to make an investment with us

00:27:44 for the duration of however long they want to live in the house.

00:27:47 And we're thinking this from a long-term perspective.

00:27:50 And we are looking at a unified experience.

00:27:52 And one of the things we're doing at GM Energy

00:27:53 is not just future energy products and charging products.

00:27:57 Our whole ecosystem offering is between public charging--

00:28:00 how do we make sure our customers have access

00:28:02 to the best experience from a public charging perspective?

00:28:05 Yeah, good luck.

00:28:05 How do we educate our customers?

00:28:09 Thanks for the support, Dave.

00:28:11 Not just you.

00:28:13 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:13 It's a big--

00:28:14 There's a lot going on.

00:28:14 It's getting better.

00:28:15 It's getting better.

00:28:15 It's a lot going on.

00:28:16 It's slowly getting better.

00:28:16 Actually, quickly getting better.

00:28:17 But it's getting better.

00:28:18 Yeah.

00:28:18 And the second pillar is really around education, right?

00:28:20 How do we actually educate our stakeholders

00:28:22 on understanding all of these different products

00:28:25 and complexities?

00:28:25 And then the third piece is really around an experience,

00:28:27 which is what Wade said.

00:28:28 If you deliver a product that's differentiated and takes

00:28:31 all that complexity away and can be done in a simple way,

00:28:35 then that's unified experience, whether you're at home,

00:28:38 whether you are in destination charging.

00:28:40 We want to make sure that the customer has

00:28:42 that seamless experience across the board, right?

00:28:44 So our app ecosystem that accompanies

00:28:47 the purchase of the vehicle will allow for us

00:28:49 to be able to differentiate that, right?

00:28:51 So our hope is and our plan is that you never

00:28:55 have to think about another vehicle

00:28:56 because GM provides you the offering.

00:28:59 Sure.

00:29:00 The whole holistic-- maybe also, Sherwin,

00:29:04 we haven't talked about it.

00:29:05 We've always talked about having an EV in the center

00:29:07 of everything that we're talking about.

00:29:09 Let's take the EV out of it just for a moment

00:29:11 and still remain at the GM Energy side.

00:29:15 So we have what we call the Vinless opportunity

00:29:17 with the home energy bank.

00:29:20 Great.

00:29:20 I wanted to go there.

00:29:21 So which is essentially a storage battery.

00:29:24 Storage battery, right.

00:29:25 That's the next part.

00:29:25 Our power bank, as we call it.

00:29:27 Maybe just-- we've been doing a lot of work with utilities.

00:29:31 And Asim, as you might know, came

00:29:32 from one of these utilities up in the Northeast.

00:29:34 We actually want to talk to him a lot about that.

00:29:36 Let's pivot there a little bit, only for the sheer fact

00:29:39 that it is so critical.

00:29:40 Because as I talked about strategic partners,

00:29:41 the strategic partners aren't just on the installation side.

00:29:44 But in order for this to work very, very well,

00:29:46 you have to have strategic partners

00:29:48 across the whole ecosystem.

00:29:50 So we have been very thoughtful about working

00:29:53 with very strategic utilities on very strategic elements

00:29:58 of this ecosystem.

00:29:59 And again, all focused on making it easy for the customer.

00:30:02 Because their customer is also our customer.

00:30:05 And so how do we make the customer really happy?

00:30:07 Get those NPS scores through the roof.

00:30:10 And I was surprised, to be honest,

00:30:12 that this initial offering doesn't come with a battery.

00:30:15 I thought we were talking about you guys as the Tesla Power

00:30:18 Wall competitor.

00:30:20 But that's your next phase.

00:30:23 Yes, in the next few months.

00:30:24 Our next podcast.

00:30:25 We'll come back.

00:30:26 No, we're not talking about that.

00:30:27 So are the home storage batteries, are they Ultium?

00:30:31 Yes.

00:30:32 OK.

00:30:32 Well, let me correct that.

00:30:33 The vehicles are Ultium.

00:30:36 The batteries we're actually sourcing

00:30:39 from a strategic partner, as Wayne mentioned.

00:30:42 They are different chemistries, LFP chemistries.

00:30:46 But they're fully interoperable with the system.

00:30:48 So between the EV battery--

00:30:51 And LFP, because they don't need to charge quick,

00:30:53 and they don't need to discharge quick.

00:30:55 And you can charge them 100%, and they're cheaper.

00:30:57 That's correct.

00:30:58 So we're launching a highly competitive product

00:31:00 that meets the market needs, and also is highly

00:31:02 responsive to the grid needs.

00:31:04 How big?

00:31:05 So it'll come in two variants, 10.6 and 17.6 kilowatt hours.

00:31:11 Those are two different versions.

00:31:13 You can stack them up.

00:31:14 People are familiar with the Tesla one, which I think was 16.

00:31:18 Is that the size of the Tesla Powerwall?

00:31:20 Typically, the average is between 10 to 17.

00:31:23 You can buy in different configurations.

00:31:24 Lucid has a 20 kilowatt hour one coming out soon.

00:31:27 But you can actually--

00:31:29 you can take the two configurations, the 17.6,

00:31:31 and you can actually stack them.

00:31:33 So you can actually double that with a single inverter system.

00:31:35 So you can actually have a very large setup,

00:31:39 close to around 35 kilowatt hours,

00:31:41 that you can use in a single installation.

00:31:43 If you're listening at home and didn't do very well

00:31:46 in high school physics, your standard EV car battery--

00:31:49 What if you're in the podcast and didn't do very well

00:31:51 in high school physics?

00:31:53 Your average EV is somewhere between 60 to 95 or 100

00:31:58 kilowatt hours.

00:31:58 Or if you count trucks, so 130, 140.

00:32:00 Yeah, the big trucks are going to go over 100.

00:32:02 But Silverado, you can go double that.

00:32:03 Yeah, 212, baby.

00:32:04 Yeah, right?

00:32:05 212 usable.

00:32:06 There we go.

00:32:07 But this is-- so physically, dimension-wise,

00:32:09 we're talking the smaller one will

00:32:11 be about the size of a mini fridge.

00:32:14 But we're still--

00:32:15 And we have one actually in the home.

00:32:17 Oh, great.

00:32:17 Oh, cool.

00:32:18 So you can check it out.

00:32:19 It's about the size of a small filing cabinet, yeah.

00:32:21 Right, yeah.

00:32:21 OK.

00:32:23 You guys want to tell us how much that's going to cost?

00:32:25 Or is that later?

00:32:26 We haven't released the pricing on that yet.

00:32:28 We will share that we will be highly competitive.

00:32:31 And the reason for that is that we--

00:32:33 and then the product will be actually

00:32:35 eligible for the 30% IRA credit.

00:32:37 So the customer will have the opportunity

00:32:39 to be able to take for the price reduction.

00:32:41 Explain that.

00:32:42 Yeah.

00:32:43 Yeah.

00:32:43 Go ahead.

00:32:44 I'm happy to jump in.

00:32:45 So as the--

00:32:46 We have two hours.

00:32:47 Explain-- no, no.

00:32:47 [LAUGHTER]

00:32:48 Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to--

00:32:50 Quick, though.

00:32:50 Explain the 30%.

00:32:52 Asim can go through the 30% piece.

00:32:54 But also, let's link it back into our e-commerce site.

00:32:57 Again, I always go back to the customer.

00:32:59 If you're the customer, just like you articulated,

00:33:02 they don't--

00:33:02 IRA, what is that?

00:33:04 They might not have that full understanding.

00:33:05 But you go through our e-commerce site

00:33:07 and click of a button, you'll have

00:33:08 that clear understanding of what is available to you.

00:33:12 All those local incentives based upon your zip code,

00:33:15 what utility you're using, all of those things

00:33:17 are presented to you such that you

00:33:19 can make a meaningful decision without getting any surprises.

00:33:21 So now let's talk about this 30%.

00:33:23 Yeah.

00:33:24 We have this Energy Genie tool that we've

00:33:26 launched on the e-commerce platform, where

00:33:28 you can pick the configuration that you'd

00:33:30 like for the products.

00:33:32 And then we have an integration available through an integrator

00:33:36 that actually gives you all the incentives that

00:33:38 are available for that product purchase.

00:33:39 Which is great.

00:33:40 Yeah.

00:33:40 Many utilities are offering discounts on chargers.

00:33:42 Many utilities are offering discounts on insulation.

00:33:44 I got like 1,200-- well, I got 1,200 bucks back

00:33:48 from California putting in a charger.

00:33:51 There's federal, there's state.

00:33:52 But DWP gave me some.

00:33:53 But it took me like three years.

00:33:56 I was like looking at the bottom of it,

00:33:58 and something fell out of an envelope.

00:33:59 I'm like, wait, what?

00:34:00 Oh, hey, money.

00:34:01 So yeah, there's incentives.

00:34:03 What's the IRA?

00:34:05 It's really the tax credit.

00:34:06 So you're eligible for a 30% tax credit

00:34:08 at the point of purchase, which is essentially

00:34:11 what the federal government has made easier now

00:34:14 that you can qualify the tax credit.

00:34:16 And this is the infrastructure bill.

00:34:18 That's correct.

00:34:18 Not your retirement account.

00:34:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:23 IRA, Inflation Reduction Act.

00:34:24 So let's try to make this a little more

00:34:27 concrete for the listener.

00:34:28 And you guys don't have to--

00:34:29 I'm going to watch your heads in your eyes, though.

00:34:31 You don't have to nod your head at all.

00:34:32 But as of--

00:34:33 You're not on camera, either.

00:34:34 As of 2019, a Powerwall 2 installation,

00:34:38 the cost for the hardware is roughly $14,600.

00:34:41 Call it $15,000.

00:34:43 And there was anywhere between a $2,500

00:34:45 and a $5,000 installation cost.

00:34:49 That's just for the battery.

00:34:50 So if you could theoretically buy through you guys,

00:34:52 if you say you're competitive, you

00:34:54 might be somewhere around that, 30% off the top

00:34:57 from the Inflation Reduction Act.

00:34:59 Off the product cost.

00:35:00 Off the product cost.

00:35:00 Not the installation.

00:35:01 But for the whole system.

00:35:02 So for example, if you were to purchase the power bank,

00:35:07 along with the whole V to H enablement

00:35:09 system in the PowerShift charger,

00:35:10 you get that 30% off the whole package.

00:35:12 Every piece of hardware.

00:35:13 So this is ding, ding, ding.

00:35:14 This is the win, win, win for our customers.

00:35:17 Again, we're always looking out for our customers.

00:35:19 To be able to say, OK, how is it meaningful for you?

00:35:22 And what are you worried about?

00:35:24 Whether you're worried about it or what's

00:35:26 interesting for you in your home?

00:35:27 And are there any weird strings with that 30%?

00:35:30 Or it's just--

00:35:30 No, it's just strings.

00:35:31 --what it is?

00:35:31 It's all up front.

00:35:32 It's one of the easiest--

00:35:33 Yeah.

00:35:34 Very simple.

00:35:34 That's great.

00:35:35 --changes that have been made recently with regulation.

00:35:36 I didn't realize it was that much.

00:35:37 That's great.

00:35:37 And we're also offering financing.

00:35:39 So we have, through GM Finance, we're

00:35:42 essentially offering a very highly competitive financing

00:35:44 option for the customer to be able to lease

00:35:46 the entire purchase and make that a seamless purchase.

00:35:51 Because keep in mind, at the end of the day,

00:35:53 similar to your system that you set up, your solar system,

00:35:56 it increases the value of your home.

00:35:57 Yeah.

00:35:58 No, that was--

00:35:58 So this is the whole point.

00:35:59 So not only do you get this 30%,

00:36:01 but also it's there for a long time.

00:36:04 Yeah.

00:36:04 And these things, as you know, there's

00:36:06 not a lot of moving parts.

00:36:08 And so they're extremely stable and things of this nature.

00:36:11 And so it's an absolute valuation builder for your home.

00:36:14 Sure.

00:36:15 Sure.

00:36:16 But let's-- we kind of jumped over the why.

00:36:19 Like, you start off by telling us

00:36:22 about this fantastic bidirectional charging

00:36:25 system and the inverter and the panel that

00:36:27 leverages the battery in the GM vehicle

00:36:30 that the larger-- your parent company sells.

00:36:34 Why do I need a storage battery, then?

00:36:36 Yeah.

00:36:37 I think it's a really good question.

00:36:40 I think for two things.

00:36:41 I think one is, it comes down to is your solar production.

00:36:43 If you have an independent source of power,

00:36:45 like a solar energy, and how big that solar installation is

00:36:49 and how much energy that is being produced,

00:36:50 and if you need to store in more than one place, right?

00:36:53 And in many jurisdictions--

00:36:54 Oh, yeah, the car goes to work.

00:36:55 Yeah.

00:36:56 The solar panels are still--

00:36:57 There you go.

00:36:58 --producing.

00:36:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:59 And in many cases, different parts of the country

00:37:01 are incentivizing stationary storage, right?

00:37:03 So some of the recent regulation changes

00:37:05 that have happened with M3.0 in California, storage is more--

00:37:09 solar installations are more valuable with storage, right?

00:37:12 Because that is where the utility then

00:37:14 benefits from the grid stabilization,

00:37:16 because now you can store the excess energy

00:37:19 and discharge it back when the utility needs it,

00:37:21 not when the sun is shining, which is not always--

00:37:23 Exactly.

00:37:24 --the case, right?

00:37:25 Where--

00:37:25 Because--

00:37:26 A lot of it gets pissed away.

00:37:27 Pardon my French, but yeah.

00:37:28 Yeah.

00:37:28 You generate a lot of power that goes nowhere.

00:37:30 I mean, I saw some horrendous stat in Germany,

00:37:34 because Germany was able to power itself 100% green

00:37:37 for a couple of days.

00:37:38 They had full wind and solar power.

00:37:41 But they lose-- it was something nuts.

00:37:44 It was like 5.6 billion gigawatts

00:37:48 are lost at any one time, because there's just--

00:37:50 there's nowhere to put it.

00:37:52 And so that's why they're trying to create hydrogen with it

00:37:55 and different sources of energy to be able to store--

00:37:57 Yeah, they don't know what to do with it.

00:37:58 That's right.

00:37:58 They've been making so much energy

00:37:59 at certain points of the day.

00:38:01 So in that context, I think, going back

00:38:02 to your question earlier, look, it's

00:38:04 giving the customer the flexibility

00:38:05 to be able to store that excess energy.

00:38:06 And then making that stored energy

00:38:09 is really where the value creation happens, right?

00:38:11 Whether you're storing it in a stationary power bank

00:38:14 product from us or--

00:38:15 Because they have something you could sell.

00:38:16 That's correct.

00:38:17 And eventually, when you can make that available either

00:38:20 to power your home, and your home is now off the grid,

00:38:23 and that is improving the reliability of the system,

00:38:26 or you can actually discharge the power back

00:38:28 and create one of the virtual power plant, right?

00:38:30 So the way we see the future is we're

00:38:32 going to have millions of EVs and all these distributed

00:38:34 energy resources.

00:38:36 And giving the customers the flexibility

00:38:37 to be able to interoperate between those assets,

00:38:41 eventually plug and play to the future

00:38:42 that we shared across any product category,

00:38:45 whether it's our EVs or non-GM EVs,

00:38:47 once they make that investment with us,

00:38:49 that unlocks the door for them to be

00:38:51 able to do any of these things in the future.

00:38:53 And more importantly, I think going back

00:38:55 to what Wade was saying earlier, look,

00:38:57 we see this future unlock happening through utilities.

00:39:00 We are collaborating with them across the country in order

00:39:03 to be able to, one, give them the confidence

00:39:06 that our products are safe.

00:39:07 They're installed in a way that actually is safe as well.

00:39:10 And then more importantly, how we can actually

00:39:12 create that resource that they can easily dispatch

00:39:14 and they can count on when there is a need.

00:39:16 So given we've made a large investment

00:39:19 in bringing in a ton of energy experts from the industry,

00:39:22 and these are thought leaders who have actually

00:39:24 kind of understand how the utility systems operate,

00:39:27 the back-end technology, and how do we

00:39:29 make the EV interoperable?

00:39:30 Because you can't create that value,

00:39:32 and you can't let the customer take advantage of that value

00:39:34 unless that stored energy is benefiting the grid.

00:39:37 And that's where the monetization happens.

00:39:39 So for us, it's a very important aspect

00:39:42 of that whole value chain and that experience is, well,

00:39:44 how do we take the EV, create this aggregated opportunity?

00:39:48 Now, whether the utilities choose

00:39:50 to dispatch it through an aggregation platform,

00:39:52 or they do it entirely on their own,

00:39:54 or they want to work with us through our energy cloud

00:39:56 platform, we'll do what's right for the customer

00:39:58 and make that unlock happen.

00:40:00 But that's where we see the opportunity.

00:40:01 And this is why stationary storage will always

00:40:04 have a role to play in a way that it provides

00:40:06 that added flexibility.

00:40:08 And today, frankly, it's more valued for the grid

00:40:10 than EVs are.

00:40:12 I got 1,000 questions.

00:40:13 Well, I want to pause there.

00:40:15 Go take advantage of Asim being here,

00:40:16 because I was reading in your bio, Con Edison?

00:40:19 Yes.

00:40:20 You work for Con Edison.

00:40:21 I did, yeah.

00:40:22 So Ed and I are exposed to an inordinate amount of EV haters

00:40:26 just trolling us nonstop.

00:40:28 Grid can't handle EVs.

00:40:30 We're going back to gasoline tomorrow.

00:40:31 How is the grid?

00:40:32 How is the nation's grid?

00:40:35 Yeah, so look, I had the privilege

00:40:37 to work for one of the most reliable utilities

00:40:40 in North America.

00:40:41 Former customer.

00:40:42 Yes.

00:40:42 Very good.

00:40:43 And the grid is challenged, for sure.

00:40:47 I think with-- typically, I think

00:40:50 since the 1960s when the air conditioning boom happened,

00:40:53 this is the first time ever the grid is seeing year

00:40:56 over year CAGR growth.

00:40:58 And historically, over the last two decades,

00:41:00 the grid has only seen a drop in demand reduction,

00:41:04 mostly driven by energy efficiency.

00:41:05 Right.

00:41:06 Appliances got much more efficient,

00:41:07 like orders of magnitude more efficient.

00:41:10 Appliances, buildings, right?

00:41:11 So as we got more and more efficient,

00:41:13 your per capita energy consumption decreased.

00:41:17 Now with the boom happening with EVs,

00:41:20 with building electrification-- so a lot of buildings

00:41:22 moving towards heat pumps and electric heat--

00:41:25 and then also with AI-driven demand through data centers.

00:41:29 So I mean, these are like--

00:41:30 And crypto.

00:41:31 Crypto a couple of years ago, right?

00:41:32 And crypto.

00:41:33 No, crypto still.

00:41:34 Crypto hasn't changed at all.

00:41:35 So all of that is putting a lot of demand on the grid.

00:41:39 The grid is-- the average age is anywhere

00:41:42 from 50 to 75 years old.

00:41:44 And it's really-- the unlock is on the distribution system.

00:41:46 So it is the last mile.

00:41:48 So think of the cable that comes from the pole into your home.

00:41:52 And that local infrastructure, that is where it's challenged.

00:41:55 And it's not going to all happen at once.

00:41:58 It's going to happen over time in pockets.

00:42:01 And part of my role when I was Kaned

00:42:04 was really the planning of the grid.

00:42:06 We'd put together this integrated resource plan.

00:42:07 And we were actually very methodical in trying

00:42:09 to understand where is this demand going to emerge,

00:42:12 and how is the consumer behavior going to adopt, right?

00:42:15 So whether you buy a heat pump, Johnny, or Ed,

00:42:18 you go out and buy an EV.

00:42:19 I got a heat pump.

00:42:20 Yeah, so as that demand comes on, how do we plan?

00:42:23 And the value we see with our platform

00:42:25 is that, look, we've got tremendous data on these EVs.

00:42:28 We have one of the largest on-star platforms

00:42:31 that has all this historical usage.

00:42:34 We know where the customer is, when the vehicle is parked,

00:42:37 how much state of charge is available on the EV.

00:42:40 Now, if we then convert that into a resource

00:42:41 that the utilities can count on, because we can tell them

00:42:44 at any given point how much energy capacity is available

00:42:47 on the EVs and in the very near future on storage,

00:42:51 now we can provide them a reliable source

00:42:52 that they can count on and bank on.

00:42:54 So it's--

00:42:55 Just one point.

00:42:56 I just want to make one point.

00:42:57 With the customer's consent.

00:42:58 Yes.

00:42:59 For sure.

00:43:00 All of this is--

00:43:01 My car knows I'm at my mistress's house.

00:43:03 This is terrible.

00:43:04 No, no, no.

00:43:04 Your phone already knows.

00:43:05 This is extremely important to us.

00:43:06 That's why I say we put the center of every decision

00:43:08 that we make.

00:43:09 And so in this regards is that customer has this capability.

00:43:12 If they wish to say, I opt in, then this

00:43:15 is what comes with it.

00:43:16 And so this is why when we talk to utilities,

00:43:19 is they love us.

00:43:20 They love what we're doing.

00:43:22 They're like, oh my goodness, you guys are going to save--

00:43:24 this is part of that--

00:43:26 you're our savior, shining armor, so to speak,

00:43:29 coming to save.

00:43:30 Because it's that last mile piece

00:43:31 where you have that energy storage,

00:43:33 you have that vehicle, you have that energy storage,

00:43:35 and that power bank, et cetera.

00:43:36 And having the ability to give that grid just a little bit

00:43:40 of breathing room is what they're looking for.

00:43:43 Such that they don't have to say,

00:43:44 that may only happen four times a year.

00:43:47 That's correct.

00:43:47 And four times a year, if you don't mind,

00:43:50 plug in for a few hours, and we're good.

00:43:53 We all can just breathe easy.

00:43:54 And that brownout that was going to happen

00:43:56 is not going to happen.

00:43:57 Or that whatever might be.

00:43:58 Look, we had that happen in LA where nothing happened,

00:44:01 but they said, hey, it's real hot for two weeks.

00:44:03 If you can, from four to nine, just don't do anything.

00:44:07 It's called a flex alert.

00:44:08 Yeah.

00:44:09 And people went insane.

00:44:11 See?

00:44:11 But now flip it.

00:44:12 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:12 Now, hey, if you're driving one of these EVs that have you,

00:44:17 have this capability, now turn that around.

00:44:20 Hey, guess what?

00:44:20 Why don't you plug in, and we'll pay you.

00:44:22 Right.

00:44:22 Right?

00:44:23 And all of a sudden, everybody has their AC.

00:44:26 You can continue on with your life as you wish,

00:44:28 and all is good.

00:44:29 So in the end, it's going back to the why.

00:44:32 This is the why, right?

00:44:34 And let's take it one step further.

00:44:35 This is the energy.

00:44:36 We're just talking about the energy storage in your home.

00:44:39 With Energy Umbrella, we're also on the commercial side

00:44:43 as well.

00:44:43 Yeah, which is even bigger.

00:44:46 Yeah, right.

00:44:46 So if you can imagine that asphalt company at 7 and 30

00:44:49 in the morning firing up their boilers

00:44:51 to warm up their asphalt, right?

00:44:53 That draw that that has on that local grid

00:44:55 is pretty significant.

00:44:56 So you have a larger scale energy storage on site

00:44:59 that you're just pulling off there.

00:45:01 Nothing from the grid, right?

00:45:03 So you're not impacting that whatsoever.

00:45:05 Right.

00:45:05 And so now we can operate.

00:45:07 OK.

00:45:07 Right?

00:45:07 Here we go.

00:45:08 You use the word investment, Asim, a little while back.

00:45:11 And I just want to clarify a couple of things

00:45:13 on the individual consumer level and then higher up.

00:45:17 Wade, in the e-commerce platform,

00:45:19 is it gmenergy.gm.com?

00:45:22 You got it.

00:45:22 OK.

00:45:23 Is there something that tells me, the potential consumer,

00:45:27 how much money I'm going to save over time?

00:45:29 Because this is the argument against a lot of this,

00:45:32 including solar.

00:45:33 It's like, oh, this happens on Facebook all the time.

00:45:35 I'm going to put solar in my house.

00:45:36 You're never going to pay it off.

00:45:38 Right.

00:45:38 It's 20 grand up front.

00:45:40 Like, how much-- how long do you think it's-- you

00:45:42 going to live there that long?

00:45:42 Like, do you-- is there a calculator or something

00:45:45 that gives you, like, the--

00:45:46 like, helps you understand what the net--

00:45:48 This is why I quit Facebook, by the way.

00:45:50 The net savings of installing--

00:45:53 making this upgrade?

00:45:54 Asim, remind me.

00:45:56 So we have options where, as part of the EV purchase

00:45:59 experience, we tell them, for the total cost of ownership,

00:46:02 how is that lower, and how is that beneficial?

00:46:05 For the initial investment that they're

00:46:07 going to make on the product, it's

00:46:09 very state-specific or jurisdiction-specific, right?

00:46:12 So whether or not the local utility--

00:46:14 so I work for Con Ed, and Con Ed runs one of the largest

00:46:16 demand response programs, as does LADPW.

00:46:19 So if that utility is compensating--

00:46:21 DWP, please.

00:46:22 DWP.

00:46:22 Thank you.

00:46:23 Thank you for that.

00:46:24 If they are--

00:46:24 We're very proud of DWP.

00:46:25 We're--

00:46:26 Yeah.

00:46:27 If they are compensating you, then that

00:46:29 is an opportunity that's available.

00:46:31 So we have an integration that actually tells you

00:46:33 about all these incentives.

00:46:34 What are the programs you're eligible for enrollment?

00:46:37 I think the overall payback--

00:46:39 the way we think about this is really twofold, right?

00:46:42 You're going to make that investment in the EV,

00:46:44 and now you have the optionality to use it as a dual asset.

00:46:48 And it's really the resilience value,

00:46:49 because what we're trying to get the consumer comfortable with

00:46:52 is that vehicle discharging is OK.

00:46:55 I think what Ed's asking is, is there like, hey, dummy,

00:46:58 it's $25 a month in your pocket.

00:47:00 You're looking for a simple--

00:47:01 Yeah.

00:47:02 There's a dollar sign that says this

00:47:04 is how much you're going to save.

00:47:05 Yes.

00:47:05 We don't have something so succinctly in there.

00:47:07 There's an idea for you.

00:47:08 No, I'm happy to take 2% of that.

00:47:10 And this is why I hesitate, because we did look at that.

00:47:12 I've trademarked "hey, dummy," by the way.

00:47:13 OK, we looked at that.

00:47:14 And this is why on the front end of the development

00:47:17 of the e-commerce site is this is what we're seeking, right?

00:47:20 But to the complexities that are in the market today,

00:47:23 it's not as simple.

00:47:24 So to compensate for that, not as simple,

00:47:27 to make it very simple for that customer

00:47:28 to be able to exercise the ability to push the button,

00:47:31 understand all of the incentives are available to them.

00:47:34 Now, because of the laws, restrictions, and otherwise,

00:47:37 there are certain things that we cannot do

00:47:38 on behalf of the customer.

00:47:39 We can guide them.

00:47:40 Right, right, right.

00:47:41 We can, as they say, lead that customer--

00:47:43 Talk to your accountant.

00:47:44 Right.

00:47:45 Well, not only that--

00:47:46 For the tax breaks.

00:47:47 Here is all of the different things.

00:47:48 You actually physically have to sign it

00:47:50 or whatever it might be.

00:47:52 But we provide all of that to the customer

00:47:54 for them to execute that.

00:47:56 Now, over time, as I'll call it, it stabilizes.

00:47:59 There's more demand out there, things of this nature.

00:48:02 Does that become a viable option?

00:48:04 Absolutely, right?

00:48:05 We aggregate some data together, understand what it roughly is,

00:48:08 or even more precisely, then yeah, these are opportunities.

00:48:11 And from an e-commerce site, guess what?

00:48:13 We built it out such that it is absolutely--

00:48:16 has the ability to be agile, right?

00:48:18 To incorporate those changes, regulation changes,

00:48:20 as we all know, happen from time to time.

00:48:22 And so therefore, we designed it such that we can do that.

00:48:25 One of the other things I would add

00:48:27 is the calculator is not evident up front,

00:48:30 but we are using concierges to actually walk our customers

00:48:33 through the whole sales journey, right?

00:48:34 And part of our experience is we have Energy Live,

00:48:37 which is a live studio.

00:48:38 It's a 3D call center where we go in.

00:48:39 We actually showcase the products.

00:48:41 Because we recognize that this is complex technology.

00:48:43 This is one of the first of its kind.

00:48:45 So how do we get the consumer comfortable?

00:48:47 And then as part of that process,

00:48:49 we learn more about the customer.

00:48:50 Where are they based out of?

00:48:51 What utility are they served by?

00:48:53 And we provide them the value proposition, right?

00:48:55 And our Energy Live concierges, they're

00:48:59 actually trained people.

00:49:00 They're industry and energy experts,

00:49:02 both on the product side as well as the energy side.

00:49:05 So we're helping to educate and inform the customer as part

00:49:08 of that purchase experience.

00:49:10 What we would like to see and where we are leaning in

00:49:12 is having the uniformity of that rate tariff

00:49:15 structure of the transparent incentives, which

00:49:19 don't always exist, that we can then position companies

00:49:22 to be able to run calculators like a run for the solar

00:49:25 industry.

00:49:26 That is the future we see happening.

00:49:28 But that transparency of the data set is not there yet.

00:49:31 But we are leaning in because we know that's the future

00:49:34 and how we want to unlock that.

00:49:36 So this is a great idea if you're playing at home.

00:49:40 Johnny asked a lot of questions about the grid.

00:49:42 And it sounds like this network that you're

00:49:44 building between the initial product and then the power

00:49:48 bank, it sounds very altruistic.

00:49:50 And it's like this step towards whatever grid 2.0 or 3.0,

00:49:58 right?

00:49:58 Like this is a stopgap measure to help with brownouts,

00:50:01 all the stuff that happened in Texas over the last couple

00:50:04 of years when they've had some crazy issues with their grid.

00:50:08 Sounds super altruistic, but you guys are--

00:50:11 there's definitely a profit motive here.

00:50:14 And I'm curious because you said the utilities love

00:50:17 what you're doing.

00:50:19 How do you monetize with them or them?

00:50:23 Like where does it come in?

00:50:25 Do you take some off the top?

00:50:28 We had the mobility house guys in here.

00:50:31 And they said, oh, who's coming?

00:50:35 Is it Wade and his team?

00:50:38 So they said, say hi for us.

00:50:39 And they kind of blew our minds because I was like,

00:50:42 you guys are going to do what?

00:50:43 This is like hand in glove with what you guys are doing.

00:50:46 Absolutely.

00:50:46 And we love those guys as well.

00:50:48 We think very highly of that team.

00:50:50 And I think the way the monetization, again,

00:50:52 happens is through the value creation on--

00:50:55 whether it's resilience, that's valued by the grid,

00:50:57 or it's energy arbitrage, pure arbitrage,

00:50:59 where you're actually saving money

00:51:01 because the amount of electrons that are being produced

00:51:04 to match the demand.

00:51:06 And I think the third piece is really around emergency

00:51:08 situations, right, where you have these emergency load

00:51:12 reduction events that utilities are actually

00:51:14 very costly and prohibitive.

00:51:16 Your kid will have food to eat if there's a blackout.

00:51:18 That's how you sell it.

00:51:20 And lastly, I think, is during major storm events

00:51:24 or major emergencies, the fact that you could automatically

00:51:29 disconnect or not have to worry about restoring power

00:51:32 for a couple of days because you're prioritizing

00:51:35 all emergency services first, all the hospitals are back

00:51:37 first, that's a significant reduction in emergency

00:51:40 response restoration costs.

00:51:43 And what we've seen in many places in many jurisdictions,

00:51:46 and I think some companies are far more innovative,

00:51:48 like California is taking the lead with PG&E.

00:51:51 We've-- ConEd's taking the lead.

00:51:52 Duke Energy is taking the lead.

00:51:54 And some of these companies are actually

00:51:55 fairly innovative in their business models

00:51:57 and testing these different tariff structures

00:51:59 where we think the unlock will happen, right?

00:52:01 So where you now create a value for providing that service

00:52:06 and for us to enable that capability

00:52:08 through our product investment on the EV itself

00:52:11 plus the associated products and the back-end platform, which

00:52:13 is the Energy Cloud platform that we have,

00:52:16 we're essentially enabling that.

00:52:17 So we believe that for that monetization to happen

00:52:20 and for us to deliver that value,

00:52:22 there is value that we'll pass on to the customer.

00:52:24 And there's a transaction cost associated with that

00:52:26 plus a markup.

00:52:27 And we will enable that capability.

00:52:29 So it's really, truly around the fact

00:52:31 that as an EV becomes a flexible grid asset in the future,

00:52:37 that enablement piece is done through GM Energy.

00:52:40 And we are enabling that transaction--

00:52:43 Through our cloud.

00:52:43 That's correct.

00:52:44 And we are earning on that.

00:52:45 But I get it.

00:52:46 I'm sold.

00:52:47 I'm bought in.

00:52:48 But host of the inevitable podcast next to me,

00:52:51 cheapskate, doesn't have solar, won't buy a new car.

00:52:55 How do you sell to him?

00:52:56 OK, so I live in Redondo Beach.

00:53:00 My peak rate is $0.36 per kilowatt hour.

00:53:04 I have a wallbox charger.

00:53:06 I was browsing Hertz the other day for used bolts

00:53:10 because, man, they are like 2022 and 2023 LTs for like $17,000.

00:53:16 It's a super efficient vehicle.

00:53:17 It's not all to you.

00:53:19 But--

00:53:20 Or you can buy a new car.

00:53:22 Wait, sell me on--

00:53:23 sell me on what-- do I need to get a storage battery?

00:53:25 I kind of got room for it, but I don't know.

00:53:27 My roof is really small.

00:53:28 I can't put too many panels on there.

00:53:29 Right, and for you, it's really, what is it that you're--

00:53:33 what is it that you want, right?

00:53:35 So do you want that resilient--

00:53:36 you want to save money.

00:53:36 So I understand you want to save money,

00:53:38 but do you want that resiliency?

00:53:39 So in the event that there's a brownout or blackout,

00:53:41 whatever it might be, whether it's--

00:53:42 He'll go surfing.

00:53:43 Yeah, it's California.

00:53:44 Exactly, it's California.

00:53:45 So that being said--

00:53:46 Put a sweater on.

00:53:47 Exactly, so but for you, is to make that decision to say,

00:53:51 guess what?

00:53:51 I do want my lights on.

00:53:53 I want my water to run.

00:53:54 I want my hot water.

00:53:55 My kid needs to watch "Bluey."

00:53:56 Or whatever it might be.

00:53:58 So going through for yourself, and this

00:54:00 is why we say we focus on each individual customer,

00:54:03 is what is it that you're seeking?

00:54:04 And we have a product lineup that will say, OK, maybe

00:54:07 you just want that 10-kilowatt power bank.

00:54:10 That's it.

00:54:11 That's all you need, and you're good, right?

00:54:13 I'll tell you what I do need, because I had the GMC Hummer EV--

00:54:17 I'm picking up the Wallbox app, because I charged it.

00:54:21 It was insane, because I took it down to like 20%,

00:54:24 and I charged it all night, because I

00:54:26 got a slow charger at home.

00:54:28 And it cost--

00:54:30 We have a faster charger for you.

00:54:31 I know you do.

00:54:33 It was $47.69, 13 hours and 52 minutes,

00:54:38 to put in 130 kilowatt hours, right?

00:54:41 And I was thinking, man, could I put a solar array on my roof

00:54:45 and a storage battery, and how long

00:54:46 would it take to store enough energy to charge

00:54:49 this Hummer for free?

00:54:51 For free, yeah.

00:54:51 No, exactly right.

00:54:53 So I think the value proposition--

00:54:55 Also, $47 is not a lot.

00:54:56 I know, I know.

00:54:57 That's great.

00:54:58 That's great.

00:54:58 Hey, EVs.

00:54:59 I'm like, no, that's pretty good.

00:55:00 I'm like, EVs.

00:55:01 EVs, guys, come on.

00:55:02 All those naysayers, they should--

00:55:04 Right there.

00:55:05 That's not bad.

00:55:06 That's it.

00:55:06 But free is better than $47.

00:55:08 Exactly.

00:55:08 [INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:55:12 The idea there is, again--

00:55:13 We like free.

00:55:13 Yeah, we like free.

00:55:14 We love free.

00:55:15 So the idea there is, again, we want

00:55:16 to help customers, where if you make that investment

00:55:19 in the product-- so today, the way the customers are thinking

00:55:22 about these decisions is, look, I've

00:55:23 got to make a solar purchase, and I've

00:55:24 got to make a storage purchase.

00:55:25 And a lot of that is driven by, OK, how much is that valued for?

00:55:29 Does it do to your home value, your insurance premiums,

00:55:32 and then how much money are you going to actually save when

00:55:34 you look at the total cost of ownership?

00:55:36 And we want to now extend that to the EV experience as well.

00:55:40 Just bundle the purchase.

00:55:41 Think about the fact that now your EV is an energy asset.

00:55:44 They'll interoperate with all the other investments.

00:55:46 So if you have solar, you're going to charge the EV for free.

00:55:49 And that's the first time ever that you're

00:55:51 going to unlock that capability.

00:55:53 And in the future, we see that scaling.

00:55:55 So we want as many customers at all different price points.

00:55:58 And some of the vehicles we're going to launch

00:56:00 is one of the best-in-class product portfolio we have.

00:56:04 It's catered to all different customer segments.

00:56:07 So it's from our Escalade IQ all the way down to the Bolt.

00:56:10 And we want to make sure that we give each and every customer

00:56:12 the flexibility to be able to use these offerings.

00:56:15 And while we're leaning in also is,

00:56:17 we believe, given our scale and our reach

00:56:20 and our customer centricity, we can really

00:56:22 drive and consolidate the cost curve down,

00:56:25 because this is our first-generation entry point

00:56:27 product.

00:56:28 And over time, as we then standardize,

00:56:31 we drive the communication standards.

00:56:33 Things get cheaper.

00:56:33 Yeah, that's the key.

00:56:35 That's the key.

00:56:35 And so for us, you think about it,

00:56:37 we have the car park today.

00:56:38 We talk about the Silverado.

00:56:40 We're launching the Silverado in five different states.

00:56:42 That's how we've gone to market.

00:56:44 But now think about the future.

00:56:45 Starting in model year '26, our lineup,

00:56:48 all Altium-based vehicles are going to have vehicle-to-home

00:56:50 capability.

00:56:51 So now think about that you put five years into the car park

00:56:55 that have that capability, that unlock available to them,

00:56:58 for those customers to say, just as you asked,

00:57:01 what is in it for me?

00:57:03 How do I look at that?

00:57:05 And if you think about that period of time

00:57:07 into the future is that it's no longer just

00:57:09 available for GM customers.

00:57:11 But those want to be GM customers,

00:57:13 maybe they start with a non-GM vehicle to begin with,

00:57:16 and they just love the experience so much,

00:57:18 they say, why would I not connect it to a GM vehicle?

00:57:21 Well, I don't know about that, but people

00:57:23 have two or three cars.

00:57:25 I have four cars right now, don't even ask.

00:57:28 And--

00:57:29 I won't.

00:57:30 But I could conceivably have two EVs.

00:57:32 Oh, for sure.

00:57:33 Yeah, and so I want to be able to--

00:57:33 And this is what we look at as well, right?

00:57:34 So you have two different branded vehicles

00:57:36 in your garage or what have you.

00:57:37 We want to be able to satisfy that customer.

00:57:39 And again, it goes back to this experience.

00:57:41 This experience is so critical for us,

00:57:44 that that customer has an experience like none other,

00:57:46 such that they say, why would I not want it?

00:57:49 Let me ask you a question, because I'm

00:57:51 about to put in a second charger.

00:57:54 Just if you saw my house, you'd understand.

00:57:56 But can this support more than one charger?

00:58:01 In other words, could I have two trucks plugged into the house?

00:58:04 Not at the moment.

00:58:05 We're looking at ways around how we can have

00:58:07 multiple chargers interoperate.

00:58:09 But essentially, it comes down to is,

00:58:11 how do you discharge power from multiple vehicles?

00:58:13 Yeah, that's what I meant.

00:58:14 You're asking, yeah, if you were to connect two vehicles, right?

00:58:17 And in parallel.

00:58:18 Yeah.

00:58:19 Yeah.

00:58:19 Wait, one to charge?

00:58:21 [INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:58:22 He wanted two Silverados, actually.

00:58:23 I have two Silverados.

00:58:24 He wants two Silverados.

00:58:26 He wants--

00:58:27 I would like a Hummer, actually.

00:58:28 OK, so--

00:58:29 One Hummer, one Silverado.

00:58:30 Right, exactly.

00:58:31 So that's huge.

00:58:32 Can you imagine?

00:58:32 I mean, that amount of power.

00:58:33 Yeah, it's great.

00:58:34 And you think about it, just as you said, 85% is--

00:58:38 Untapped.

00:58:39 On both of those.

00:58:40 And be able to flow those through one system.

00:58:42 This is what you've asked.

00:58:43 Yeah, I'm just saying, because a lot of people

00:58:45 own three vehicles.

00:58:46 I know.

00:58:46 Yeah.

00:58:47 So here you go.

00:58:48 And conceivably, you might want to all charge them together.

00:58:50 Johnny, I think you just hit the nail.

00:58:52 Ding, ding, right?

00:58:52 So the ding, ding is, we've just started.

00:58:55 There are so many opportunities here in the future

00:58:57 that we're just getting started.

00:58:58 So just as you talked about, this

00:59:00 is why I say it becomes like, hey, I like that.

00:59:02 And that sounds interesting, versus now, I want.

00:59:05 Not only do I want it, I need that.

00:59:08 So this is where that customer, over time, as we really

00:59:11 focus on this education.

00:59:12 It always starts-- I always say, first and foremost, education

00:59:16 always.

00:59:18 So at the end of the day, that customer,

00:59:20 how do they get educated?

00:59:21 For us, we didn't talk a lot about it here today.

00:59:23 The channels that we go out to market,

00:59:25 not only do we have the e-commerce platform,

00:59:27 but guess what?

00:59:27 We have an amazing partnership with all of our dealers,

00:59:31 our dealer partners across not only the United States,

00:59:33 but Canada as well.

00:59:34 We have over 4,000 of them.

00:59:37 That being said, is they are a critical piece

00:59:39 in the puzzle as well.

00:59:40 And so at that point of sale, you

00:59:42 have an educated salesperson that says, hey, guess what?

00:59:45 Had you thought about this opportunity, oh my goodness,

00:59:48 I had no idea.

00:59:49 And oh, by the way, is that that local utility has also

00:59:52 this incentive for you.

00:59:53 Oh my goodness, I didn't know that either.

00:59:55 And now they're like, wait a second.

00:59:58 This is a good option.

01:00:00 And so it just starts that kind of thought process.

01:00:03 And it gets into, now they have multi-vehicles

01:00:05 in their garage.

01:00:06 And they have an ICE and an EV.

01:00:08 Maybe that's a unidirectional charger.

01:00:10 And all of a sudden, their family grows.

01:00:13 Someone's, hey, guess what?

01:00:14 We just had a brown owl, black owl.

01:00:15 Or they buy two EVs, which is getting very common.

01:00:18 Right, exactly.

01:00:19 And all of a sudden, you have a situation

01:00:20 where we make it very simple for that customer.

01:00:23 We'll help you.

01:00:24 This is our intent.

01:00:24 Right, right.

01:00:26 And it's modular.

01:00:26 So you can start with one.

01:00:28 You can go down.

01:00:28 Or when I say you can start with that PowerShift charger

01:00:31 and go one way.

01:00:32 Or you can start with that power bank and go the opposite way.

01:00:35 Makes sense?

01:00:35 Yeah.

01:00:36 OK, we're running out of time.

01:00:37 I got a couple more questions.

01:00:38 And I want to close it out and sort of give more specifics

01:00:41 on where to go and what to look at.

01:00:42 So in the time that we started talking to you guys

01:00:46 about coming on, a couple of things

01:00:47 happened in the industry.

01:00:49 One is a company by the name of Tesla

01:00:51 fired all of their supercharger people.

01:00:55 And you guys announced, GM, broader GM announced,

01:00:59 about this time last year, that you'd be moving to the NACS--

01:01:03 the NACS adapter.

01:01:04 Well, not only GM, the whole industry.

01:01:06 I know, but GM was among the first, right?

01:01:09 Your colleagues across town already have implemented it.

01:01:11 We got our adapters.

01:01:12 You guys, we haven't received anything from GM yet.

01:01:15 Is this-- I know this might not be

01:01:17 within your purview, but you guys are two--

01:01:19 Are you sticking with NACS?

01:01:20 Is there any wrinkles in what's going on?

01:01:22 No.

01:01:22 It is under my purview.

01:01:23 Any emergency meetings?

01:01:24 Oh, it is.

01:01:24 It is.

01:01:25 My team, I'm responsible.

01:01:26 Any emergency meetings?

01:01:28 Guess what?

01:01:29 This was--

01:01:30 You're in Germany.

01:01:30 They're having a lot of emergency meetings right now.

01:01:33 I'll just say it this way.

01:01:34 In the auto business, guess what?

01:01:36 I've been with General Motors for now over 30 years.

01:01:39 OK.

01:01:39 And guess what?

01:01:39 Over those 30 years, a lot has changed.

01:01:41 Yeah.

01:01:42 Whether it's today, yesterday, or tomorrow,

01:01:43 things are going to change.

01:01:44 And for us, General Motors, we've

01:01:46 stuck to our guns and said, hey, guess what?

01:01:48 This is what we intend to go do.

01:01:50 And the market is going to do whatever it's going to do.

01:01:52 So we're going to accommodate it.

01:01:54 We're going to make sure that our customers, what

01:01:56 we committed to the marketplace, is we're sticking to it.

01:01:58 So yeah, there are some difficulties for sure.

01:02:00 And that will continue to be.

01:02:03 So whether it's the adapters or otherwise,

01:02:06 this is a bit complex.

01:02:07 So recognizing there's some complexities

01:02:09 in the marketplace, guess what?

01:02:11 We'll work around them and make sure

01:02:12 that we're going to satisfy that customer.

01:02:14 OK.

01:02:14 How does NACS, that, and GM Energy work with the Iona?

01:02:19 Iona, am I saying it right?

01:02:21 The new collaboration--

01:02:22 We are part of the Iona joint venture.

01:02:24 And a very key partner.

01:02:26 We are all equals, call it this way, around the table.

01:02:29 We all have the singular--

01:02:30 we all have the same voice, so to speak.

01:02:33 OK.

01:02:34 Where are my Iona chargers?

01:02:37 OK, I can't share anything of that nature.

01:02:39 It's been like--

01:02:40 I mean, if it's been more than a week, like if I was in the--

01:02:44 I'm selling cars to people business.

01:02:46 Man, I'd be putting chargers everywhere.

01:02:49 So let me just share with you this.

01:02:50 At the end of the day is that from a GM perspective,

01:02:52 we look at, in the end, it is very important for us

01:02:55 to look at the overall charging infrastructure

01:02:57 in a meaningful way.

01:02:59 Again, it's EV adoption.

01:03:00 Allowing, whether you're in the home, whether you're

01:03:03 charging along the highway or things of that nature,

01:03:05 to make it very simple for that customer,

01:03:07 we do that by our My Brand app.

01:03:09 So find, charge, and pay.

01:03:11 Allow that customer, regardless whether they

01:03:13 use an Iona in the future, a Tesla--

01:03:15 Whatever, yeah.

01:03:16 --Pilot, Flying J, whatever it might be,

01:03:18 is that it makes it so simple for that customer.

01:03:20 They don't think about it.

01:03:21 This is our intent.

01:03:22 And this is what we intend to do.

01:03:23 Irregardless of what happens in the marketplace,

01:03:25 all the ups and downs that are happening, we'll address those.

01:03:28 We'll do it in a meaningful way with that customer in mind.

01:03:30 OK.

01:03:31 And we'll close it out.

01:03:32 We'll bring it back to--

01:03:35 I'm on the site, actually.

01:03:36 So gmenergy.gm.com.

01:03:39 Is this actually the house?

01:03:40 Did you guys upload the image already?

01:03:42 Is this what we're talking about?

01:03:43 That's not that.

01:03:43 This is a different one.

01:03:44 This is very similar.

01:03:44 Very similar.

01:03:45 It looks very similar.

01:03:45 Yeah.

01:03:46 OK.

01:03:46 So if you go to gmenergy.gm.com, you

01:03:51 can check out the PowerShift, bi-directional charger,

01:03:55 the inverter system, and the panel.

01:03:57 It's going to cost you roughly $7,500.

01:04:01 Oh, you said five states?

01:04:03 Five states for now.

01:04:04 California?

01:04:05 So California--

01:04:05 California's one of them.

01:04:06 --Texas, Michigan, Florida, and New York.

01:04:09 OK, so Sunbelt plus New York.

01:04:10 You got it.

01:04:11 OK, and Michigan.

01:04:12 And where the people live plus Michigan.

01:04:15 Zing.

01:04:16 Ouch.

01:04:17 I'm just talking population.

01:04:18 Right.

01:04:19 And it's available--

01:04:21 Right now.

01:04:22 Right now.

01:04:22 OK, cool.

01:04:23 So you feel free.

01:04:24 I had to hit the Buy button.

01:04:25 Those five states is like half the country.

01:04:27 There you go.

01:04:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:28 So we're very thoughtful about it for sure,

01:04:31 how we want to do it, do it.

01:04:32 But again, the focus is on providing that customer

01:04:35 experience like none other.

01:04:36 So guess what?

01:04:37 Hit the Buy button there, and you'll

01:04:39 see that customer experience.

01:04:41 I'm going to hit the Look button first.

01:04:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:43 That's fair.

01:04:43 And then is there an app that goes along with it?

01:04:46 Or do you start here, and you download the app later?

01:04:50 Well, yeah, after you purchase the product,

01:04:53 and you have the EV at your home,

01:04:55 the My Brand app actually has an extension called Home Energy

01:04:58 Management System.

01:04:59 So it's actually integrated experience,

01:05:01 comes with a PowerShift charger, and that unlock

01:05:04 happens through that digital experience.

01:05:06 And the app gives you--

01:05:07 much like what you were showing us earlier, Johnny,

01:05:09 it gives you how much total charge sessions,

01:05:12 how much vehicle discharged, the state of charge.

01:05:15 You can control it, any point on your fingertips

01:05:18 from wherever you are, and gives you the option.

01:05:21 OK, well--

01:05:22 Cool.

01:05:22 --this was great.

01:05:23 I'll just leave you with a cautionary tale.

01:05:25 You guys-- I wish you the best.

01:05:28 Thank you.

01:05:29 This is an awesome endeavor.

01:05:32 We may have tried to install bidirectional charging

01:05:36 with solar on a truck manufacturer,

01:05:40 Crosstown Rodeo of yours, rhymes with board.

01:05:43 And it cost-- the quote was $18,000.

01:05:46 And we got crazy run around.

01:05:48 And we know, anecdotally, from Nextdoor app and Facebook

01:05:53 that solar--

01:05:55 all of this home charging stuff is a nightmare.

01:05:58 Solar is the worst industry in America.

01:06:00 There's no bigger loser industry than solar.

01:06:02 My morons--

01:06:04 Let me tell you-- tell us how--

01:06:06 The DWP--

01:06:06 --I really feel the champion.

01:06:07 Oh, man.

01:06:08 I didn't realize it was this triggering.

01:06:10 I was just trying to close it.

01:06:11 I just remember signing a thing.

01:06:13 And they're like-- I signed it in November.

01:06:15 They're like, installed running on December, no problem.

01:06:17 And April 15, I remember, is tax day.

01:06:19 And I'm like, I'm paying my solar bill,

01:06:21 and I'm paying my energy bill, because it's still not turned on.

01:06:23 DWP flunked these idiots five times.

01:06:26 And at one point, I went to the guy.

01:06:27 I'm like, what's going on?

01:06:28 And he turned to me.

01:06:29 He's like, we're not a very good company.

01:06:30 Yeah.

01:06:31 Well, in the end, to your point, I can't speak to any others.

01:06:34 But I'll tell you, the GM energy experience you're going to get

01:06:37 is like none other, period.

01:06:39 Great.

01:06:40 OK.

01:06:40 We'll take care of it.

01:06:41 We'll look forward to it.

01:06:42 We talked about maybe pulling the trigger

01:06:45 and doing it at the office.

01:06:46 But we'll see.

01:06:47 But I want to thank you guys both for coming in.

01:06:49 Wade and Asim, this was awesome.

01:06:51 Thank you so much.

01:06:51 Thank you very much.

01:06:52 Appreciate it.

01:06:52 Thanks for having us.

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01:07:20 inspired by the future, designed for the now.

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