MotorTrend's Ed Loh & Jonny Lieberman sit down with Dodge CEO
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00:00:00Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motortrend.
00:00:03Inspired by the future, designed for the now.
00:00:16Hi there, and welcome to another episode of The Inevitable.
00:00:20This is Motortrend's podcast, our vodcast about the future
00:00:24of the automobile, the future of transportation,
00:00:27and today, the future of a very old American car brand
00:00:31that is kind of, I don't know, reinventing, reimagining itself?
00:00:35It's the iconic Dodge Brothers.
00:00:38And so to talk to me and Ed about that,
00:00:40we've got the CEO of Dodge, and I love having CEOs.
00:00:43This is Matt McAleer, who has only been on the job
00:00:46for seven months, I believe.
00:00:49But, like, what a time to be the CEO of Dodge.
00:00:52Sure. Lots of stuff going on.
00:00:54Yeah, it's crazy.
00:00:55It hasn't been an easy time in the automotive business,
00:00:59especially if you work for one of those Galantis brands.
00:01:02Yes.
00:01:03So we have Matt on.
00:01:04Great guy, second-generation Mopar, Chrysler,
00:01:10whatever you want to call it, enthusiast.
00:01:12His father apparently worked for the company,
00:01:14and I read his bio, and apparently he traveled
00:01:17all over the country in support of the company
00:01:21known as Chrysler.
00:01:22And now he's a super veteran of the industry
00:01:26and has been in automotive for, he looks really young,
00:01:30but it's decades.
00:01:32Yeah, he looks really young.
00:01:33He's not.
00:01:34But he's a seasoned executive.
00:01:35He's served across a lot of the brands you know and love
00:01:40from what was Chrysler Corporation, what was FCA,
00:01:42and what is now Stellantis.
00:01:43He's actually damed with Chrysler.
00:01:45He goes back that far.
00:01:46Yeah, he's a super interesting dude.
00:01:48And we're going to talk to him all about what's going on
00:01:51with the Dodge lineup overall and spend a lot of time
00:01:54talking about Charger, Charger Daytona, the coming six-pack,
00:01:58the EV, and the internal combustion.
00:02:01Yeah, and maybe a V8's coming back.
00:02:04Right.
00:02:05Well, maybe.
00:02:06Didn't say nothing.
00:02:07But before we go there, I just want to talk to you,
00:02:09ask you, Johnny.
00:02:10This is actually our second episode of the new year
00:02:12in the returning to this beautiful studio.
00:02:14And one of the things we actually asked,
00:02:16we had a question last week, so we didn't talk about this.
00:02:18But new year, new administration.
00:02:21How are you feeling, Johnny?
00:02:24It's now been, it's now the guy's been inaugurated.
00:02:27There's a lot of stuff going on, like tariff,
00:02:30a lot of tariff talk, a lot of mandate talk.
00:02:32Actually, mostly immigration talk.
00:02:34I'm feeling old, Ed.
00:02:35I feel old and out of it.
00:02:37I don't know, I don't know which direction up is.
00:02:40Right.
00:02:41Also, you know.
00:02:43But let's not politicize it too much.
00:02:45No, no, no.
00:02:46For the automotive listeners.
00:02:48Yeah.
00:02:49Are you generally bullish?
00:02:52Are you like, we're in a good spot.
00:02:54It's an interesting spot.
00:02:55Like, it's all going to hell.
00:02:56Like what?
00:02:57Here's my thing is that I, you know,
00:03:00what Dodge is doing where they develop a platform
00:03:04that can handle an internal combustion engine
00:03:07and an EV platform.
00:03:09To me, that's a compromise.
00:03:11Now, can it be done well?
00:03:12Yes.
00:03:13And the one that gives me hope is what BMW is up to.
00:03:18Like I've driven the i7 and the i5 and then the gas counterparts
00:03:22and they're all terrific.
00:03:24The EVs are better.
00:03:26They just, you know, no shifting.
00:03:28They're quicker.
00:03:29They're more responsive.
00:03:30But the – and again, the engines and the gas ones
00:03:33aren't all that exciting.
00:03:35But it can be done well.
00:03:38I just worry though, like isn't it really a compromise
00:03:41at the end of the day?
00:03:42Like aren't you serving two masters?
00:03:45And then I worry about America.
00:03:48Like, you know, China is just going to be all EV.
00:03:52Europe is probably going to be all EV.
00:03:54Europe is going to be all Chinese EVs.
00:03:57All Chinese EVs.
00:03:58And like as an American, I just want to, you know,
00:04:01lead every industry.
00:04:03But I'll tell you what,
00:04:04and I will look directly in the camera and say this.
00:04:06I'm surprisingly not very concerned about China
00:04:08because I think the one thing you can say about Trump
00:04:10is he's probably going to let China in during the next four years.
00:04:13He's going to slap so many tariffs apparently.
00:04:16And aside from kowtowing to TikTok,
00:04:21I don't think it's really clear that he's going to –
00:04:24like we're not going to see a bunch of Chinese anything
00:04:27rolling on the streets.
00:04:28I didn't even mean Chinese cars.
00:04:30I just meant like we're going to be this like weird country
00:04:34that's like worried about internal combustion
00:04:37when the whole rest of the industry, the best minds,
00:04:39are working on software-defined vehicles and EV.
00:04:42And also, by the way, Biden put up 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs.
00:04:47We know how Trump thinks.
00:04:49Like if Biden did it, do the opposite.
00:04:51And so he might remove them or incentivize them.
00:04:55Who knows this guy?
00:04:56The thing I'm most annoyed by, I would think, I would say,
00:05:01is the NEVI, pulling all the NEVI funding,
00:05:05the new electric vehicle infrastructure,
00:05:08all the dollars.
00:05:09We had those guys.
00:05:10They were part of the documentary we did on America's Problems with EVs,
00:05:14which is basically everybody talks about we need more chargers.
00:05:18Well, this was a plan to get more chargers.
00:05:20And if that money stops flowing, in four years,
00:05:24whoever – we're going to look down and say,
00:05:26hey, you remember how we wanted more infrastructure
00:05:29and more EV chargers and now we don't have any?
00:05:31Yeah.
00:05:32Well, and then remember now he has an office in the White House.
00:05:36We've got the head of the biggest EV company in the U.S., Musk.
00:05:41Wouldn't he be saying, like, we want more of this?
00:05:44But no, because he's got a financial interest in the Tesla supercharger network.
00:05:48We'll see how that goes.
00:05:49I think Vivek is already out.
00:05:52We'll see how long Elon lasts.
00:05:54I mean, sure.
00:05:55Then look, and that's the other thing.
00:05:57I saw a bingo card on social media with all the cabinet's names.
00:06:01Remember – I would say the big difference is last time he seemed to be
00:06:05like he was looking for, quote, unquote, the best people,
00:06:08but these weren't necessarily loyalists like General Mathis or something like that.
00:06:12And this time it's just loyalists.
00:06:15So loyalists never really have a full answer.
00:06:17Who knows?
00:06:19I'm still getting through the fires, man.
00:06:21I don't even know.
00:06:23All right. Fair enough.
00:06:24How about you?
00:06:25No, that's it.
00:06:27I'm going to put my head in the hole and just start –
00:06:30just keep on trucking with the car stuff because the politics is wild.
00:06:34And with that, let's get Matt McAleer on and talk to him about –
00:06:40About the future of Dodge.
00:06:41Future of Dodge.
00:06:42Thank you so much, Matt McAleer, head of Dodge, for stopping by.
00:06:45Busy schedule.
00:06:47I'm going to set you up with a real softball question here.
00:06:51So there's a guy named Trump now in office.
00:06:54How does that shift your business, your job, make things easier, harder,
00:07:00overall EV strategy, product strategy?
00:07:04What's going on?
00:07:05Did it actually change things?
00:07:07Yes.
00:07:08You know what?
00:07:09That's a great question and one we're getting quite a bit lately.
00:07:11Definitely keeps us on our toes a little bit more than the previous administration.
00:07:16I think hindsight, 2020, Monday morning quarterback.
00:07:21You can say we were lucky.
00:07:22You can say we were smart.
00:07:23But with our EV strategy, I think one of the things that we're very happy with,
00:07:27with the change in administration, is it's a multi-energy platform.
00:07:30We didn't commit to any one technology.
00:07:34So while we are launching EVs right now, we're very –
00:07:37in a few short months, second half of the year,
00:07:39we'll be bringing out our two six-pack models.
00:07:41So we've got something for everybody and we can flex with what's going to happen
00:07:44and the changes that happen because, quite frankly,
00:07:47who knows where we're going, right?
00:07:48There's going to be changes, but it's –
00:07:50Sadly, yes, that's right.
00:07:51We'll see what happens.
00:07:53Okay.
00:07:54But you're the big boss at Dodge.
00:07:56Doesn't that – we don't know where this is going.
00:08:00Doesn't it also create, like, massive headaches?
00:08:02And this is sort of not – it's not a Trump or Biden thing.
00:08:08It's kind of both.
00:08:09It's the America – we change presidents like other countries.
00:08:13Like, for example, China has had the same guy for, like, 20 years, right?
00:08:16And they set the goal and everybody is clear.
00:08:19Okay, sweet.
00:08:20Now we can do long-term planning.
00:08:22Does it make it harder when you have to change –
00:08:24you have to, like, violently change directions every four years?
00:08:28It definitely makes it something you think about a little bit more
00:08:32in the product development life cycle.
00:08:34And the product development life cycles are so long, as you guys know,
00:08:36that challenges us from not locking into one technology.
00:08:40But it also – I think it pushes our engineering resources
00:08:43and our teams to do – stay flexible.
00:08:47As we've been talking a lot lately, Americans just want freedom of choice.
00:08:51And we're not all in on one technology.
00:08:53We're going to continue to change powertrains throughout the years.
00:08:57But we have to stay compliant.
00:08:58We have to improve.
00:08:59So while, yes, things are changing maybe at a little different rate
00:09:01than they were last year, we still have to develop EV technology.
00:09:06We need to look down the future of where we're going with hydrogen,
00:09:08with diesels, with ice motors.
00:09:11It's not going to be one-size-fits-all,
00:09:13and I think that's where we've started to lay that groundwork.
00:09:15So we just need to continue to push forward
00:09:17and bring out as many different options for consumers as we can,
00:09:21as quick as we can.
00:09:22Okay.
00:09:23So I'll ask you then just to explain –
00:09:26I think this is a question we're going to come back to a lot.
00:09:29What is – can you give us a summary of Dodge's product strategy, vehicle strategy?
00:09:35I think to sum it up as simply as possible, I would say we win when we're different.
00:09:42When we try and build a commoditized, me-too-type product,
00:09:45in general over the history, that's not where we win.
00:09:49We have the great fortune of being part of a house of brands with Stellantis
00:09:53that we don't have to tiptoe the line.
00:09:55We don't have to be everything to everybody.
00:09:57We can be bold, audacious, think outside the box, focus on performance,
00:10:01kind of being crazy.
00:10:03We always say that it's fine if 95% of the people don't want to buy our cars.
00:10:07If that was the case, we'd be just like everybody else.
00:10:11So from that standpoint, we say we're all in on performance,
00:10:15America's performance brand.
00:10:17That doesn't necessarily limit you to any single segment.
00:10:21But if we're going to go into that segment, if we decide to go into that segment,
00:10:23we've got to stand out.
00:10:24We've got to have best-in-class performance claims,
00:10:26and we've got to be doing things the Dodge way, just a little bit more fun.
00:10:30Okay. So an example of we win when we're different
00:10:33would be like the previous Hellcat strategy.
00:10:37Absolutely, the previous Hellcat strategy.
00:10:39It goes back all the way to even when the Viper first launched, right?
00:10:41Okay.
00:10:42I think that started putting –
00:10:44but that's been that way for the 110 years of the Dodge brand.
00:10:47Even when the Dodge brothers broke off from Ford,
00:10:49that's kind of cemented in the brand's history.
00:10:53But even with this EV we're launching today,
00:10:56we're saying we're not actually launching an EV.
00:10:58We're launching a muscle car first.
00:11:00It just so happens the first powertrains that are coming out are EVs,
00:11:02and they outperform the gas engines they replace.
00:11:04So we're kind of taking EV to market a little bit differently.
00:11:09The car, in general, is the same exact car
00:11:12between its ICE powertrains that are coming in a couple of months
00:11:14and the EV powertrains.
00:11:15So it wasn't designed as an EV first.
00:11:17It was designed as a muscle car first with retro heritage and inspiration.
00:11:24So I think, again, that just kind of sets us out.
00:11:26Nobody else is doing a big all-wheel drive sedan.
00:11:30Quite frankly, this one has more rear seat legroom than the outgoing Charger.
00:11:34This is a big car.
00:11:35Most people aren't developing big cars these days.
00:11:37Right.
00:11:38I just drove it, and I'm glad –
00:11:39because we're probably going to spend the bulk of this podcast
00:11:41talking about the Charger Daytona,
00:11:44as well as what's coming with the six-pack,
00:11:46as well as the other vehicles.
00:11:48But let's dive deep.
00:11:49So I did drive the –
00:11:52this is a rare moment for this podcast
00:11:53where I drove something that Johnny has yet to drive.
00:11:56Yeah, I haven't driven it.
00:11:57I had it this weekend, the Charger Daytona,
00:12:02the fully loaded, all singing, all dancing, the red one,
00:12:05you guys from the press feed out in Los Angeles.
00:12:08And it's a big car.
00:12:10It is like –
00:12:11and here's the thing.
00:12:12It doesn't actually look –
00:12:13like, it's beautiful-looking.
00:12:15Shout-out to Ralph, my man.
00:12:18Great-looking car.
00:12:19I looked at the R-wing up close.
00:12:21I looked at the Fratsonic logos on the back.
00:12:23It's gorgeous.
00:12:24It looks perfect as a two-door.
00:12:28It's got the long door.
00:12:29It's beautiful on the inside.
00:12:32It is heavy.
00:12:33I mean, it doesn't drive heavy.
00:12:35We'll get there.
00:12:36But I know from our testing director, Eric Tingwall,
00:12:38who wrote the piece on it,
00:12:39he's like, wow, this thing is like 5,600 pounds or so.
00:12:42And that is –
00:12:43and the length, it's longer than a lot of three-row –
00:12:46a few three-row SUVs in the market.
00:12:49Why is it so big?
00:12:50Why is it so heavy?
00:12:52You know, just some of the inherent engineering needs
00:12:56that come along with a multi-energy platform,
00:12:58developing a platform that can handle both ICE engines
00:13:01as well as EV.
00:13:04The battery packs in themselves, 100-kilowatt hours,
00:13:07we do have over 300 miles range on the RT.
00:13:10We're talking 2 EDMs, 496 horsepower on the RT,
00:13:13670 on the Scat Pack.
00:13:17It's big.
00:13:18It is definitely muscle car size proportions.
00:13:21We did not get smaller.
00:13:22We did not go pony car.
00:13:23We did not go nimble.
00:13:24We went with big.
00:13:26But you know what?
00:13:27It pushes the boundary of what people know as a muscle car.
00:13:30The last generation, we did have all-wheel drive available
00:13:33on the entry-level V6s.
00:13:35This is now standard all-wheel drive, all powertrains.
00:13:38This has a hidden hatch design with UV-like storage capability,
00:13:41132% more cargo capacity than the outgoing model,
00:13:44more rear seat legroom in the two-door coupe
00:13:48than the outgoing four-door.
00:13:50So it is absolutely kind of bridges that gap now
00:13:53between what people know as a muscle car
00:13:55versus a daily driver.
00:13:56And this can be your daily driver, which is exciting.
00:13:58It opens us up to a whole new market.
00:14:00But you're right.
00:14:01It's a big car.
00:14:02It's different.
00:14:03And I said that's how we win when we're different in the marketplace
00:14:05and we don't try and offer something that you can go down the street and find.
00:14:09I'm trying to think.
00:14:10The only other two-door that's that heavy that jumps to mind
00:14:13is like the Rolls-Royce Spectre,
00:14:15which I think is kind of like 6,000 pounds, that neighborhood.
00:14:18Yeah.
00:14:19But that's, I mean, that's, you know,
00:14:22just a 5,600-pound two-door is like kind of crazy.
00:14:25We estimate the –
00:14:26I think we're actually too well-manipulated engineers.
00:14:28The battery pack is about 1,500 pounds.
00:14:31So you're talking 4,200 or so for the –
00:14:36The structure.
00:14:37Sorry, 3,200.
00:14:38Am I doing the math right?
00:14:39You're doing it wrong.
00:14:404,200.
00:14:41Yeah, 4,200 or so for the –
00:14:44without the pack.
00:14:47I mean with the –
00:14:50I'm jumping ahead now.
00:14:51With the six-pack comes, that's going to be considerably lighter.
00:14:54Yeah.
00:14:55And the six-pack will actually be the entry level to the brand.
00:14:57So as you step up for performance, you'll step up to the EVs.
00:15:00So the six-packs coming will be 420 and 550 horsepower,
00:15:05which will be significant.
00:15:06They're going to be fun.
00:15:07And if I remember correctly, and I can check my math later,
00:15:10but I think a Challenger Hellcat was about 4,500 pounds, 4,600 pounds.
00:15:15So it's a –
00:15:16if you figure out the EV part, but if the gas one comes in,
00:15:19it might be about the same as the outgoing one.
00:15:22Yeah.
00:15:23Maybe a little heavier.
00:15:24I'm also reading my notes here, and I gave them –
00:15:26I put the car on a 300-pound diet.
00:15:28Apparently it's closer to 5,900 pounds.
00:15:29Oh.
00:15:30You didn't correct me.
00:15:31I was about to say 5,800 and change is what I remember,
00:15:34but you had your notes in front of you.
00:15:35Yes.
00:15:36They're his notes.
00:15:37For everyone listening, it's Ed's notes.
00:15:40So then you said the car was designed first as a muscle car,
00:15:44but is there something inherent in having the dual –
00:15:48design for the dual platforms that needed to make this thing –
00:15:52I mean if the base chassis is –
00:15:54and without a battery, it's going to be 4,200 or so pounds.
00:15:57Like that seems –
00:15:58Well, and it's also –
00:15:59it's a shared platform not just for the Dodge muscle cars,
00:16:02but it's a Stellantis large platform that's shared and other platforms.
00:16:05STLA large.
00:16:06So this is like, for instance, the Maserati GranTurismo, GranCabrio.
00:16:13Well, the Wagoneer S for one is a new one that's shared off of this platform.
00:16:16SUVs.
00:16:17It's not the –
00:16:18because I just know Maserati has –
00:16:20I think I remember, but it's –
00:16:22they can do both powertrains.
00:16:24They have ICE and electric.
00:16:25So we have the Stella medium, Stella large, Stella frame.
00:16:27So this is part of the new STLA platform sharing that we're doing across the globe.
00:16:32Yeah.
00:16:33No, I think Maserati and Jeep.
00:16:35Frame is the truck, Ram Charger, right?
00:16:37So this is our –
00:16:38do you go back and –
00:16:40at the stage when you said, hey, this will be enlarged.
00:16:43Oh, maybe it should have been medium.
00:16:44If you had done a medium, a Stella or STLA medium,
00:16:48it would have been like more pony car size?
00:16:50It wouldn't have the same wheelbase, the same presence.
00:16:52It wouldn't have been truly what we wanted to get out of the muscle car
00:16:55as we built the muscle next generation.
00:16:57So is there optimization availability?
00:17:01Absolutely.
00:17:02As we work through the model years and the changes,
00:17:04we'll definitely work to optimize wherever we can.
00:17:07Okay.
00:17:09All right.
00:17:10Let's address some –
00:17:11let me just before I dive into some of the criticisms.
00:17:14How has the reception been?
00:17:15Now the vehicle has been launched.
00:17:17They're starting to roll into, obviously, media hands
00:17:19and influencers are starting to drive them.
00:17:21What's been the reaction?
00:17:24It's a house divided.
00:17:27You've got our outgoing consumer base that we've built over the last generation
00:17:31that, quite frankly, has been all in on ICE powertrains,
00:17:34all in on V8 and muscle car, and that's phenomenal.
00:17:38We also are talking to a whole new generation of buyers,
00:17:41a lot of buyers that necessarily weren't visiting our showrooms before
00:17:44that are starting to come in.
00:17:45And I just met with the dealer body at NADA in New Orleans,
00:17:47and a lot of them were shocked about some of the people that are coming in.
00:17:50This starts to open us up to a new market, which is cool.
00:17:54And the fun thing is is that we're not saying fall out of love with ICE engines,
00:17:58not at all.
00:17:59We're launching a better muscle car, the muscle car of the future for Dodge.
00:18:04We're going to be multi-energy.
00:18:06It just so happens that we're having to launch the EV first.
00:18:09We're putting a phenomenal foot forward with 670 horsepower on paper.
00:18:14The scat pack completely blows away the Hellcat Redeye Widebody Challenger
00:18:19of yesterday.
00:18:21From an MSRP standpoint, $10,000 to $15,000 less,
00:18:24same widebody proportions, now standard.
00:18:26Standard all-wheel drive, 330 to 60, more technology, more safety,
00:18:30more cargo space, more rear legroom.
00:18:34We're talking to a new set of buyers, which is fun.
00:18:37But here in a short couple months, the ICE engines come out,
00:18:40and now we're starting to talk to some of those buyers that have been thinking
00:18:45about it for a while.
00:18:46And it's going to take some time to grow.
00:18:48But we just sold down.
00:18:50A lot of those V8 customers, they're still on the lot,
00:18:53saying still go get a couple of them that are left before they're
00:18:55completely gone.
00:18:56So we're trying to give everything to everybody right now.
00:18:58They're still on your site, I noticed.
00:18:59I was like, hey, you can click the tab and you can see the full range
00:19:03of what's available, which is interesting.
00:19:06We heard a rumor a while ago that this platform, at least this charger,
00:19:14not only can it take a straight six, but it actually could handle a V8.
00:19:17Is there any truth to that?
00:19:19Can you comment on that?
00:19:22I wouldn't say that it won't handle a V8.
00:19:25What I'll tell you is that there's been nothing that is done to date.
00:19:29But if you look back at the previous generation of muscle cars and all the
00:19:32powertrain iterations over the years, we started out with a 3.5 and a 6.1,
00:19:36and then we went to a 3.6 and a 5.7 and a 6.4 and a 6.2 Hellcat,
00:19:426.2 Demon, 6.2 Redeye, 6.2 Demon 170.
00:19:46We continue to innovate and we continue to find ways to bring more to market.
00:19:49So that's the beauty of this platform.
00:19:51So that's not a no.
00:19:52That's good.
00:19:53Okay.
00:19:54That's the beauty of this platform.
00:19:55It can handle a lot of different stuff.
00:19:56Okay.
00:19:57Gotcha.
00:19:58We may have had our guys, because we have the car and we're measuring.
00:20:00It definitely – I mean, look, and of course –
00:20:02I mean, it's a big car.
00:20:03Yeah.
00:20:04I think it was like, you're an idiot.
00:20:06Of course, Ed.
00:20:07It's going to be able to fit a V8.
00:20:08The straight six engine, the block is going to be longer than a V8.
00:20:10Right.
00:20:11It's wide enough.
00:20:12It's the width.
00:20:13Yeah, of course.
00:20:14It's a big car.
00:20:15So it should be able to fit.
00:20:16I was curious about the R-Wing because if you look – if you ever find yourself in the
00:20:21presence of this beautiful car, look at the front and then actually go to the A-pillar
00:20:25and look towards like where the hood ornament would be and you'll see this gap.
00:20:30And I'm like, I wonder whether with the downward plunge of the hood, whether you could
00:20:35still stuff.
00:20:36It would be shorter.
00:20:37So yeah, you could.
00:20:38Well, that R-Wing actually is only on the Daytona, only on the EV models.
00:20:42So when the six pack comes out, you'll have a higher hood bulge.
00:20:46Because aero is not as important.
00:20:48Well, because the aero and you have the radiator and the cooling up front and the different
00:20:50–
00:20:51So you need even more hood height.
00:20:52And you're going to need to put a V8 in there as well.
00:20:54I'm glad we're settled here.
00:20:57Ed is just here to torment the poor PR people.
00:21:00This is great.
00:21:01Just so you know, Matt.
00:21:02He's not really here for you.
00:21:03He's just here to score cheap points.
00:21:05This is great.
00:21:06And you jumped way ahead.
00:21:08I didn't jump any ahead.
00:21:10You did.
00:21:11We're talking six-cylinder.
00:21:12We'll go back.
00:21:13Well, my thinking on that question was the faithful – and again, this is one of those
00:21:18weird things with Americans.
00:21:19Like you could say, hey, this is a great six-cylinder.
00:21:23It makes all this power.
00:21:24It's more powerful than the old V8.
00:21:25It's like, yeah, but it's not a V8, which I'm sure is –
00:21:29We've heard a little of that.
00:21:30Yeah.
00:21:31It's not news to you.
00:21:32In every Instagram post on everything, totally even not related to Dodge.
00:21:36But as I'm sure Matt knows, Instagram commenters are not necessarily buyers.
00:21:40In fact, they're never buyers in my experience.
00:21:42They don't do anything but comment on Instagram.
00:21:45But OK.
00:21:46So that's – I don't think I was jumping ahead.
00:21:48I think it was a logical question.
00:21:50No.
00:21:51A guy that I met that runs an Instagram channel for Durango, Hellcat Durango, and he was listening
00:21:57to the Fratsonic Chambered Exhaust and we were at a Cars and Coffee.
00:22:01He goes, it's incredible.
00:22:03And I said, well, you drive a Hellcat Durango.
00:22:05You like it?
00:22:06He said, just because I love my Hellcat Durango doesn't mean I can't love that thing.
00:22:09Just because I love my Durango doesn't mean I can't love that too.
00:22:11No one is saying fall out of love with V8s or anything wrong with V8s.
00:22:13It's not a bad word.
00:22:15We're just talking performance right now and we'll see where we go.
00:22:18But Chris always makes fun of me that I work with.
00:22:21I say, you have a son and a daughter.
00:22:23You love them both.
00:22:24They're completely different.
00:22:25But you love them both.
00:22:26In fact, you love a V8 and you love EV power trains or you love a V8 and you love inline
00:22:30six and what they can do.
00:22:32Performance is performance and I think that's what we're going after right now.
00:22:35But the future is going to be bright for this car.
00:22:38Well, I'm glad you brought up Fretzonic because I wanted to talk about it.
00:22:41I did drive the Scat Pack we had, the Scat Pack Daytona around.
00:22:46And I can confirm that – because I drove it through a part of town where I'll just
00:22:52say there's a lot of Dodge customers, a lot of Hellcat, a lot of Challengers.
00:22:57And I pulled the light and of course – I was actually trying to find the Fretzonic
00:23:01sound and I hear out of my ear, hey, is that that new 25?
00:23:07And I'm like, yes, this is the new 25.
00:23:10And it's an EV and the dude lost his mind.
00:23:12He's like, what?
00:23:13And that's – unfortunately, I couldn't find the Fretzonic because I was going to
00:23:16start revving it.
00:23:18The car is incredibly quiet.
00:23:20It is like – it is so quiet when you drive.
00:23:23You're like, wow, this is amazing.
00:23:24I know EVs are all really quiet.
00:23:26This thing is like that.
00:23:27Like you call the lightning an isolation chamber.
00:23:30Charger is super quiet.
00:23:31So I actually found myself wanting to find this noise.
00:23:33I did it.
00:23:34And it's actually – I like it cruising.
00:23:36My team thinks I'm nuts.
00:23:37It's not – I don't know.
00:23:39And then I parked it in the drive the next day and I was like revving it.
00:23:42I'm like, OK.
00:23:43This is a little – it's super loud when you switch between the drive modes,
00:23:47between drag, track, and then sport.
00:23:49Yeah.
00:23:50It's like 126 decibels or something.
00:23:52Yeah.
00:23:53I'm a decibel level just as loud as a Hellcat.
00:23:54That's insane, yeah.
00:23:55Yeah.
00:23:56It's loud.
00:23:57It's got a very interesting sort of metallic artificial like roar to it.
00:24:02The question I'm trying to get to is for people that don't like it,
00:24:06are you going to be able to provide updates?
00:24:09Is there like an over-the-air update to the sound in the works?
00:24:13Is there any kind of customization available?
00:24:15Nothing that we've announced right now, but everyone asks that.
00:24:17They're like I want a library of app or choices that I can make that I want to
00:24:21make it sound like any of these heritage-inspired cars or quite frankly,
00:24:25the first person that jailbreaks it and is sitting out in the parking lot
00:24:28and has turned it into a loudspeaker or a custom PA or something,
00:24:32these things are going to happen.
00:24:33That's what's the beauty of the aftermarket.
00:24:34It's funny you said that, specifically not the jailbreak but your heritage.
00:24:39Yeah.
00:24:40Because Hyundai made some people kind of happy with the Ioniq 5N where it had
00:24:46like an engine noise.
00:24:48Shifts.
00:24:49Yeah.
00:24:50And I drove it.
00:24:51I'm like this sounds dorky.
00:24:52And everyone's like well, yeah, it's a Kia whatever.
00:24:56I'm sorry.
00:24:57It's a Hyundai Elantra N.
00:24:58And I'm like of all the noises, engine noises in the world.
00:25:02And they go well, that's their heritage.
00:25:03Wait until Porsche is going to uncork a 917.
00:25:05And I'm like okay, maybe.
00:25:08But, yeah, like you could have done Hellcat.
00:25:10You could have Viper at 5,000 RPM.
00:25:13I mean go back to the 60s and 70s.
00:25:16You got Magnum engines and all that stuff.
00:25:20I think that's where the fun begins is where can you take it, right?
00:25:24Right.
00:25:25But if we'd come out and we had just cloned the red eye sound, that would have
00:25:30been all in.
00:25:31Too fake.
00:25:32Yeah, too fake, right?
00:25:33It's unique.
00:25:34It's something new.
00:25:35It's something different.
00:25:36The two things for me, one, the first time you hear it, it puts a smile on your
00:25:39face, which is what these cars are supposed to do.
00:25:41But, two, you have that adjustability for that connection when you're driving
00:25:45because there's times when you want to get on it.
00:25:48You want to have some fun.
00:25:49If it's whisper quiet, you're missing that emotion or that connection between
00:25:53your brain and the visceral connection with the car and the feedback that the
00:25:57car is giving you, this helps in that sense.
00:26:01But there's other times when you're on a long trip, you want to take a phone
00:26:04call, you want to turn it down.
00:26:05It's great.
00:26:06Turn it off.
00:26:07Or if you're getting up early to go to work or the gym, you don't have to wake
00:26:09up the neighbors because it still will.
00:26:11You turn that on the garage and the neighbors will hit it.
00:26:13126 decibels is like the shuttle launching or something.
00:26:16It's a big noise, yes.
00:26:18But why hide the button?
00:26:20It's about two menus in.
00:26:23Normally, you just hit a button, turn things, make things, the go loud button.
00:26:27Yes.
00:26:28Well, there's a go loud button, the PowerShot button.
00:26:30That will go instant all in.
00:26:33And then the custom set button in the middle of the steering wheel on the left
00:26:36side, if you double click that, that will immediately go to however you want it
00:26:40set up.
00:26:41And then you can cycle through the drive modes as well.
00:26:43So there's about four or five different ways.
00:26:45The off button, completely off to your point, is three clicks, I think.
00:26:49Yeah.
00:26:50A little tricky.
00:26:51Yeah.
00:26:52Okay.
00:26:53All right.
00:26:54I'm going to address some of the real nerdy kind of EV criticisms about the
00:26:58vehicle.
00:26:59And one was the sound.
00:27:01Two more.
00:27:03One pedal driving.
00:27:05Yes.
00:27:06So it doesn't have it.
00:27:07Like it goes below I think it's seven miles an hour and then it just coasts.
00:27:10Yeah.
00:27:11There's no way to –
00:27:12So there's creep mode.
00:27:13You can turn it on or off.
00:27:14Yep.
00:27:15And you can go to one pedal and then we have regen adjustability through the
00:27:17paddle.
00:27:18So you can get to one pedal driving with max regen.
00:27:23All the way to zero.
00:27:24Mm-hmm.
00:27:25And it will hold.
00:27:26And then we have creep mode and creep mode off.
00:27:28So it's a little counterintuitive to maybe some of the other vehicles in the
00:27:31market.
00:27:32So it defaults into creep mode, which gets down and just kind of idles and
00:27:36rolls a little bit.
00:27:37Yeah.
00:27:38So creep mode, if you're not familiar, just means act like you have an
00:27:40automatic transmission even if you don't.
00:27:41Okay.
00:27:42And if you turn that off, then you'll get the one pedal icon on the dash.
00:27:44So we do have that.
00:27:45Okay.
00:27:47Oh, okay.
00:27:48So maybe that's what it is.
00:27:49Maybe if creep mode is not engaged – because obviously you couldn't have
00:27:53one pedal with creep mode.
00:27:54Right.
00:27:55You have to turn creep mode off.
00:27:56Can you –
00:27:57Because that was – real quick, that was the big complaint I heard from like
00:27:59EV enthusiasts was like, there's no one pedal driving.
00:28:01This is nuts.
00:28:02Yeah.
00:28:03Okay.
00:28:04But can you set it to default like always on or do you have to – do you
00:28:07have to –
00:28:08It latches.
00:28:09So if you're driving it and you keep it with creep mode off, it will latch
00:28:13so it stays off for you the way you want it to.
00:28:15Meaning I shut it off, turn it back on again like for the rest of my life.
00:28:18Right.
00:28:19Never change it.
00:28:20Correct.
00:28:21Okay.
00:28:22Latching.
00:28:23Interesting.
00:28:24Okay.
00:28:25I did not try that.
00:28:26So I will go and try that.
00:28:27Charge speed is two – what did you say?
00:28:32Roughly 20% to 80% in 26 to 27 minutes on a level three.
00:28:36But the highest charge speed is topside like 250, 220, something like that
00:28:42when we can –
00:28:44Basically, I think I'm trying to – the bigger question I'm trying to get
00:28:47to is who do you envision the buyer of this vehicle to be?
00:28:50Is it their first EV?
00:28:52Is it – is this – are you trying to appeal to somebody who has never,
00:28:55ever considered and they have a home charger and they're not going to have
00:29:01to deal with wanting – like a lot of people who own – a lot of reasons to
00:29:06buy like a Tesla or – actually Teslas are not the fastest charging.
00:29:10But like some of the newer vehicles.
00:29:12A Hyundai, 800-volt charging system, so you get 20 to 80 in like 18 minutes.
00:29:18On a 350.
00:29:19Yeah.
00:29:20Who ultimately – who do you think you're catering to?
00:29:23Well, I think this is multifaceted.
00:29:26I think it's a lot of two-car families with a truck or an SUV in the driveway
00:29:29that want something that's very practical, can still be a daily driver for 80%,
00:29:3390% of the time.
00:29:35It's always charged at home.
00:29:36You're not necessarily using that level three charger with the range.
00:29:39I mean, especially 240-plus range is on the Scat Pack at 670 and over 300 on the RT.
00:29:45So I think we see a lot of two-car families that want that fun car to replace
00:29:51the old muscle car.
00:29:52But then I think we start talking to a lot of individuals that have already
00:29:57adopted EV technology.
00:29:59You're not selling them on the benefits of EV.
00:30:01They already know it.
00:30:02They've had one.
00:30:03But they want something now that fits their personality.
00:30:05Maybe they feel like they gave up a little bit in the past to get a typical three-box flat floor,
00:30:10white vegan leather, three computer screens, and they're great cars.
00:30:15They're ubiquitous.
00:30:16They're ubiquitous.
00:30:17They're everywhere.
00:30:18Yeah.
00:30:19We had R.J. from Rivian on, and he was saying that's the problem with EVs right now
00:30:23is everything is a Model Y clone, every single thing.
00:30:26And I had never thought about it.
00:30:28I was like, you're kind of right.
00:30:30There's really not much else.
00:30:33So this starts talking to a little bit different buyer than maybe we necessarily had in our showrooms
00:30:37last year or the year before.
00:30:39But also, if you go back and you look at the last 10 years, you combine Charger, Challenger,
00:30:43two-door, four-door sales, we sold more V6s and V8s.
00:30:47So while we all talked about performance all the time and shouted Hellcat from the rooftops,
00:30:51there's a lot of people that just love the differentiation, the loud, bold colors, the fun, right?
00:30:57But they don't necessarily, stoplight to stoplight, they don't need 700 plus horsepower.
00:31:01I mean, speak for them.
00:31:03Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:04I hear that's a thing people think.
00:31:06Made that for you.
00:31:07Yeah, well, you know.
00:31:09But so going with that, and maybe we can talk about something besides the Charger.
00:31:14No, no, no, no.
00:31:15No?
00:31:16We're standing.
00:31:17We got a couple more.
00:31:18You know what?
00:31:19Listen to Ed.
00:31:20Let's go, Ed.
00:31:21All right.
00:31:22Let's keep going.
00:31:23So, okay, I hear you on that.
00:31:24Will – are you going to take – is Charger going anywhere else outside of North America?
00:31:28That was a good question.
00:31:30Yes.
00:31:31So we'll be – well, outside of North America, we'll be in the Middle East and Europe.
00:31:34So we go through distributors in Europe, and then we'll be in the Middle East as well.
00:31:37Okay.
00:31:38That's a big car for Europe.
00:31:39Yeah.
00:31:40And will there be a Magnum version of it?
00:31:43Are you going to do a wagon, a sport wagon?
00:31:45The team at – I asked our team, they're like, ask if there's going to be a Magnum.
00:31:48I mean, Tavares is gone.
00:31:50And that thing's got a huge hole in the back.
00:31:52Yeah, kind of pre-designed.
00:31:54Just put a – yeah, come on.
00:31:56Get some D pillars.
00:31:57I just saw BMW just doing an M5 wagon.
00:31:59They just showed it on the ring.
00:32:01This thing could be – this totally could be a – you could bring a Magnum.
00:32:03I'm not arguing with you.
00:32:04The Magnum is one heck of a car.
00:32:05Yeah.
00:32:06It's very cool.
00:32:07It's not?
00:32:08It's not?
00:32:09That's it?
00:32:10It's pretty good.
00:32:11Nod of no.
00:32:12That's two nod of nos.
00:32:13That's very good.
00:32:14Okay.
00:32:15So perhaps.
00:32:16Keep your thinking.
00:32:17All right.
00:32:18Okay.
00:32:19But seriously, Europe – this car would fit in Europe?
00:32:20Would be – you think there's a buyer?
00:32:21There was a buyer for the last generation cars, and there's a buyer for this generation.
00:32:25It's low volume, but through the distributor, we do have a very passionate, loyal fan base,
00:32:30customer base over there that they're looking forward to this.
00:32:32It doesn't get rebadged as a Lancia?
00:32:34No.
00:32:35It does not.
00:32:36Because I love seeing – whenever I was in Italy, you'd see those Chrysler 300s with
00:32:38the Lancia badges.
00:32:39It was like, yes.
00:32:40Beautiful.
00:32:41All right.
00:32:42You just came back from NANA.
00:32:43What has – so I asked you about the – what the consumers, and you said it was kind of
00:32:48split.
00:32:49How are dealers feeling about Charger Daytona?
00:32:53I think the dealers in general are cautiously optimistic, and we've only had them on lots
00:32:59for three weeks now.
00:33:00So there's many dealers around the country that haven't even received them yet.
00:33:03The larger dealers that I talked to were coming in smiling.
00:33:07Hey, I've already sold two.
00:33:08I've already sold four.
00:33:09I've already sold six.
00:33:10This is great.
00:33:11And I said, well, who's coming to your showroom?
00:33:13And the same people.
00:33:14They've been hearing from the same people that they've been selling cars to, Chargers
00:33:17and Challengers, for years.
00:33:18The same people that are on the internet.
00:33:20They're not excited about this car, but there's a whole other group of people that
00:33:23are hitting the showrooms that are coming in.
00:33:25I'm sorry to interrupt.
00:33:27Is it skewing younger?
00:33:29A little bit younger.
00:33:30They said there's definitely a new generation that are familiar with this technology, aren't
00:33:36opposed to this technology.
00:33:38We find that a lot, and we're – speaking just for Ed and I, we're old now.
00:33:42We're old people.
00:33:43But there are – I run into them every once in a while, and they're like, wait, wait.
00:33:47You would buy a car that you have to go to a gas station?
00:33:49Why would you do that?
00:33:50What a waste of time.
00:33:52I'm like, well, they're kind of fun to drive, but slower than a Tesla.
00:33:56Why would you want something slower that's inconvenient?
00:33:59I'm like, yeah, okay.
00:34:00Well, I was talking to – I was in the Barrett-Jackson.
00:34:03We were doing thrill rides for the first time with the car.
00:34:05And the first time that people were getting behind the wheel, emotions were just over
00:34:09the top excitement.
00:34:10I was talking to a couple guys, an older gentleman.
00:34:13He goes, I have a 2013.
00:34:16And we were talking, and I said, well, the six packs are coming later this year.
00:34:20He goes, why would I want one of those?
00:34:21He said, I've got a gas car at home.
00:34:23I want something different.
00:34:24And I think that's where we can kind of go.
00:34:26It's not necessarily replace what you have or get rid of what you have.
00:34:29There's room for performance in a different way.
00:34:32And again, if you go back to like what does a muscle car do besides rumble and
00:34:36sound loud?
00:34:37Like you kind of stop light to stop light racing.
00:34:39Like you can't beat an EV.
00:34:40It's unbeatable.
00:34:41It's like gears are slow.
00:34:43Having to like rev to build power is slow compared to an EV.
00:34:47It just is.
00:34:48And that's why everyone hates them.
00:34:50But when Teslas show up at drag strips, they rock.
00:34:53Absolutely.
00:34:55So what does success look like for Charger EV?
00:34:59Well, I think the easy one is sales and market share.
00:35:03But beyond that, I think the biggest success would be if we were able to
00:35:11and we're on the tip of the spear of trying to change the perception of what
00:35:16EV is.
00:35:17You know, EV is still young in the industry.
00:35:19There's a lot of people that still wouldn't even know where to start on
00:35:22putting a level two Charger in their home.
00:35:25The early tech adopters, they got out.
00:35:28They are the ones that have adopted this technology.
00:35:30But it hasn't gone mainstream yet.
00:35:32I think this is the type of car that can get people to just go in and ask the
00:35:37question.
00:35:38They say, you know what?
00:35:39That resonates with me.
00:35:40I love the design.
00:35:41No one doesn't love the design.
00:35:46We need to get the people in there, well, looking for the ice.
00:35:49Let me just, before I go out the door, let me see what that 670 horsepower car
00:35:52is like.
00:35:53Let me see what that 496 horsepower is, you know, EV.
00:35:55Maybe I'll drive one now.
00:35:56If we can start to be on the tipping point of not necessarily saying everyone
00:36:00has to have one, but helping the industry and the country in general,
00:36:04just start to understand the technology, accept the technology.
00:36:08And it's not a one size fits all.
00:36:09It never will be.
00:36:10I mean, even us as a company, we want, you know, 30% EV.
00:36:13Now we're, you know, sub-30.
00:36:14But it's got to be part of the future of the mix.
00:36:16It's not all in, but part of the future.
00:36:18What about from a conquest perspective?
00:36:22Like what makes you, what would make you like deliriously happy if you found
00:36:26that people were trading in this vehicle for this one?
00:36:32Is there a specific vehicle you're like, man,
00:36:34it would be great if we just got everybody to turn in there?
00:36:37You know, that's a great question.
00:36:39I think the biggest thing we look at more is just if we can conquest more
00:36:43than the defection.
00:36:45And we started to see it already.
00:36:47One of the stats we were looking at the other day was, you know,
00:36:49the Hornet's attracting 30% more conquest than the Drangle.
00:36:53A different consumer basis coming to the showroom.
00:36:55I think we owe it to our dealer body to start talking to more people.
00:36:58We've shrunk our market share too much over the last year.
00:37:02We need to get that back and it doesn't come in, you know,
00:37:05from just the customers we used to talk to.
00:37:07We got to start talking to more people.
00:37:09So I think just in general, any EV trade-in I think is just like,
00:37:15wow, they designed an EV for me.
00:37:17I wasn't, as you said, the ubiquitous choices I had before.
00:37:21This is something that fits me.
00:37:23Right.
00:37:24Can we move on?
00:37:25Nope, nope.
00:37:26There's a couple more.
00:37:27Okay.
00:37:28So just a couple more.
00:37:29What's it called?
00:37:30You can't do a burnout in the scat pack.
00:37:32Is that just for Banshee?
00:37:34I think it's Sir Isaac Newton in physics.
00:37:36Oh, come on.
00:37:37It's coming for the –
00:37:38So it was absolutely not a decision that was made not to do it.
00:37:43Line lock?
00:37:45The challenge, 100% transparent.
00:37:48When you line lock, you have two DMs.
00:37:50You go from 670 horsepower and you turn off that front EDM.
00:37:53You're talking 335 horsepower now.
00:37:55EDM, electric drive module?
00:37:57Electric drive module.
00:37:59Or motor.
00:38:00You've got 335 horsepower, half of your 670.
00:38:03You've got the front tires locked.
00:38:04You've got a 5,800-pound-plus car.
00:38:07You've got 325 performance tires in the rear.
00:38:09Not a great burnout, yeah.
00:38:11Okay.
00:38:12So you can get it going.
00:38:13We do have the donut and drift mode where you can turn off the front EDM
00:38:16and you can get the thing smoking and sliding,
00:38:19and we were doing it in our thrill rides.
00:38:21But physics got in the way of a standing line lock burnout.
00:38:24But when we bring out the SRT 800-volt system with the E-RUP transmission,
00:38:30we'll be able to do a standing line lock.
00:38:32Okay.
00:38:33Oh, no.
00:38:34Have you announced the specs on that, the full power specs?
00:38:36No.
00:38:37The only thing that we announced was the 800-volt and the 2-speed E-RUP
00:38:40transmission.
00:38:41So the same thing that we announced at Speed Week a couple years ago.
00:38:43Okay.
00:38:44The next thing I was going to say was, well,
00:38:46your problem is you don't make enough power.
00:38:47Because, like, for instance, Lucid, I always say this.
00:38:52The new Z06 Corvette, 670 horsepower for a naturally aspirated V8,
00:38:57most powerful V8 ever from a factory.
00:39:00And the Lucid Sapphire has three 670-horsepower motors.
00:39:04Three.
00:39:05And they're tiny.
00:39:07So it sounds like you have a more powerful E-RUP.
00:39:11SRTs are always more powerful.
00:39:13There you go.
00:39:14Okay.
00:39:15Done.
00:39:16Okay.
00:39:17Now we can move just to the six pack.
00:39:19Is it going to be too quiet?
00:39:21People are concerned about the noise of the six pack.
00:39:24Because it's turbocharged?
00:39:25Yeah.
00:39:26We're absolutely working on making it fit with the size of the vehicle
00:39:32as best as possible.
00:39:33Okay.
00:39:34Will it be V8?
00:39:35No.
00:39:36It's an inline six.
00:39:37It won't replace a V8.
00:39:39But will it sound good?
00:39:40Absolutely.
00:39:41Okay.
00:39:42Too bad you're not still Daimler Chrysler.
00:39:45You can talk to the AMG guys who have mastered making turbo sound really,
00:39:49really good.
00:39:50All right.
00:39:51Now we can move on.
00:39:52All right?
00:39:53Do you have anything else?
00:39:54Okay.
00:39:55Well, I was going to –
00:39:56Actually, I'm sorry.
00:39:57One last question.
00:39:58Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:59You're the expert.
00:40:00Is there any – you have this audience that hopefully will go and test drive
00:40:02the Charger Daytona or the six pack.
00:40:04Any Easter egg, any special mode, anything they should go in,
00:40:08any setting?
00:40:09There's lots of menus, lots of cool stuff you can do,
00:40:11lots of customization.
00:40:12Is there anything they should, like, hey, go and do this, you know,
00:40:16as a Nintendo player?
00:40:17So left, right, left, right, up, down, up, down, you know, A, B,
00:40:20and, like, something will unlock, something cool.
00:40:22Well, I mean, the custom mode is on the steering wheel is kind of a double
00:40:26click, and that takes you right into your default,
00:40:27which you want to set up as.
00:40:29So if you have your favorite settings.
00:40:31But I think the biggest thing is just go test drive it.
00:40:34Go listen to it.
00:40:35Cycle the frat sonic.
00:40:36The frat sonic, when it kicks on as loud, goes down into auto mode.
00:40:39You kind of do have to cycle through sports, kind of the spot.
00:40:42And define frat sonic for people that aren't familiar with it.
00:40:45That's the frat sonic chambered exhaust.
00:40:46So that's the exhaust and simulated exhaust note that, you know,
00:40:50connects your brain to the pedal,
00:40:52which the one thing I'll say is it does get a lot of feedback online.
00:40:56Everyone that hears it in person says, wow,
00:40:59that's not what I heard online.
00:41:01Yeah, sure.
00:41:02The frequencies don't come through the speaker, the computer.
00:41:04You have to get in here in person.
00:41:06It's your phone speaker.
00:41:07Right.
00:41:08So give it a shot.
00:41:09Go test drive it.
00:41:10Turn it on.
00:41:11Play with it.
00:41:12That's what we've seen so far is the differentiator.
00:41:15People get behind the wheel the first time and they're like, holy cow,
00:41:17this is not what I was expecting.
00:41:19Okay.
00:41:20I was just going to say, and you said it.
00:41:22You said, you know, Dodge has given up too much market share recently.
00:41:25So what you got?
00:41:27And you don't have to say product names or anything,
00:41:29but like what segments, you know,
00:41:31obviously Durango is a senior citizen at this point.
00:41:33Hornet, you know, actually I haven't driven a Hornet.
00:41:38Well, you brought up Hornet as attracting a different customer.
00:41:42But how has that launch been?
00:41:44How's it doing?
00:41:45So it was rocky out of the gate.
00:41:48We had some software challenges with the vehicle that we've now gotten right
00:41:52with our dealer body.
00:41:53The last three months of the year, October, November, December,
00:41:56were the three best months since launch,
00:41:58starting to get its foot in the market.
00:42:00The dealers are starting to understand how to sell the car.
00:42:03The good news is, you know,
00:42:05you never want to have any issues with your cars, period, right?
00:42:07Yeah, right.
00:42:08100% quality is obviously the name of the game.
00:42:11But if you're going to have issues, software flash updates,
00:42:14much better than hardware updates.
00:42:16Yeah, takes a few minutes, yeah.
00:42:17A lot of the challenges that we were noticing too were things that,
00:42:20as you said, the vehicle was co-designed in Europe.
00:42:24A lot of them were just instrumentation that was more European friendly to
00:42:28European drivers.
00:42:29They weren't necessarily things that were wrong.
00:42:32They were just unintuitive to the American culture,
00:42:35the way our cars are designed.
00:42:36So a lot of them were just finessing and getting the car right.
00:42:39We should have done it sooner.
00:42:40We can get those cars flashed and updated now.
00:42:42So the car is finding its footing, starting to grow share.
00:42:45We're working with our dealer bodies right now to, you know,
00:42:48continue to push that market, really focus on the ICE models this year.
00:42:52You know, the GLH concept,
00:42:53I think it's going to be an exciting year for that vehicle to finally come
00:42:57to reality.
00:42:58But it still has a bright future ahead of us.
00:43:00It's an all-new nameplate and an all-new segment we haven't played in before.
00:43:03Describe that car, the GLH.
00:43:06The GLH is the performance-tuned version of the GT.
00:43:11So we have an all-ICE model, and then we have the plug-in hybrid model.
00:43:14So this will be the goes-like-hell model off of the GT.
00:43:18So more details as that comes later in the year.
00:43:21But that one is going to...
00:43:22And will that remain a hybrid?
00:43:24No, that will be the all-GH.
00:43:26It's off all the ICE.
00:43:27Oh, okay.
00:43:28Full ICE.
00:43:30That was a car, we'll say the alpha version, at least.
00:43:32I was, like, the way I experienced that car was I loved it when it was all
00:43:37electric.
00:43:38And the second the engine kicked on, I was kind of like, eh.
00:43:40It would be a nice, pure electric car.
00:43:42I mean, I know it's hard to do small EVs.
00:43:45That is a true driver's car.
00:43:47I mean, you know, the powertrain and the driving characteristics were all
00:43:52tuned here in North America for the Hornet.
00:43:54It's absolutely, it's a blast.
00:43:56It's a compact utility with, you know, plenty of room in that segment.
00:43:59It is, I've got one at home.
00:44:02My sons have one.
00:44:03It's a blast.
00:44:04Get behind the wheel.
00:44:05It has best-in-class performance characteristics in the segment.
00:44:08It's terrific.
00:44:10It's a brutal segment.
00:44:11It is, like, the most competitive segment in the industry.
00:44:15So Alisa, our business editor, had asked this question.
00:44:19How can you keep it competitive?
00:44:23Can you keep it competitive without incentives, without money on the hood?
00:44:28Like, is it the GLH that's going to help you get there?
00:44:31But that's on the performance end.
00:44:33Yeah, I think, you know, part of that is now that we got the quality right,
00:44:37the dealers are starting to accept us.
00:44:38We came off of our three best months.
00:44:40We got the day's supply in check.
00:44:42We're starting to, you know, rebuild not only that car but, you know,
00:44:45our entire showroom with our partners.
00:44:49As they figure out how to have that conversation and they figure out how to
00:44:52differentiate on the showroom floor and who to offer that to, it can be successful.
00:44:57And it's just, you know, we keep seeing.
00:44:59We had quarter over quarter growth every quarter last year,
00:45:02and we're going to be making a few changes with some of the pricing,
00:45:06the incentive structure,
00:45:07and some of the options to keep the momentum going this year.
00:45:10Okay.
00:45:11And then what about, I mean, obviously, you know,
00:45:13to sell a lot of vehicles in the U.S., if it's not a pickup truck, it's an SUV.
00:45:17And, you know, Americans tend to like big three-rowy stuff.
00:45:20And, you know, you have the Durango.
00:45:21But, again, I mean, you know, I know where that dates back to.
00:45:26And Stellantis has great platforms.
00:45:29I'm just, you know, I drove the Maserati Grecale, which is Stelvio, essentially.
00:45:34And, like, I was shocked how great that was.
00:45:37But, like, man, you know, depending on the engine, you put a Dodge badge on there, right?
00:45:42Like, you're the performance brand.
00:45:45Like, is something like that coming?
00:45:47Can you do a three-row off that?
00:45:48The Wagoneer platform.
00:45:50You have all these good SUV platforms, which are modern.
00:45:54Yeah.
00:45:55They're not Dodge, though.
00:45:56So, like, give us what's going on.
00:45:59Well, no, I mean, there's definitely room for opportunity.
00:46:01I mean, we just announced that the next generation Durango will be built in the Detroit complex.
00:46:07So Durango has a bright future.
00:46:08We just extended the 5.7 liter V8, you know, RT.
00:46:12We just extended the 6.2 liter supercharged Hellcat.
00:46:15We still have the 3.6.
00:46:17This is for the Durango.
00:46:18This is for the Durango.
00:46:19But not for the next Durango.
00:46:20Not for the next Durango.
00:46:21So we're working on the next-gen Durango.
00:46:23But while we still, you know, the Durango is one of those vehicles that it is a little bit older.
00:46:28But, you know, we did have in 2021 the update inside.
00:46:31And it's a vehicle that still stands out on the showroom floor.
00:46:35It still has the performance chops.
00:46:37The only V8 in the segment.
00:46:38Cross chops with vehicles a segment above it just based on its towing capability.
00:46:42But with its size and the wheelbase, it's still doing very well for us.
00:46:46We had quarter-over-quarter growth, and we have to figure that out.
00:46:48And that was one of the topics we talked with our dealers about at NADA.
00:46:52There will be some exciting growth this year on Durango.
00:46:55Well, Drew, real quick, the Durango Hellcat was awesome.
00:46:58Oh, it still is.
00:46:59I know a guy, you know, he's got a Viper.
00:47:03He's got a, I don't know, whatever McLaren, whatever he wants, he has.
00:47:07And that's his daily driver is a Durango Hellcat.
00:47:10And, you know, and I was like, you're crazy.
00:47:13And I drove it.
00:47:14I'm like, oh, yeah, this thing's really cool.
00:47:15With the all-wheel drive, it hooks up and goes.
00:47:17It's awesome.
00:47:18Yeah.
00:47:19So back to the, we started with Trump.
00:47:21With a new administration, any chance that the 5762 get further extended?
00:47:26You know, it's something we're always looking at, and we'll, is there an opportunity?
00:47:30Absolutely.
00:47:31We'll still have to be compliant as a company.
00:47:34So while V8s are, you know, no longer a bad word, and some of the compliance,
00:47:38we haven't seen where it's going yet under the Trump administration.
00:47:41The nice thing is, you know, we don't have to balance that with just Dodge.
00:47:44We can balance that with the entire Stellantis portfolio of products.
00:47:46Sure.
00:47:47So it'll just come down to a business case, right?
00:47:49You know, what cars make the most sense and make the most money to keep the big engines around the longest.
00:47:53But you'll, if to keep them, because Stellantis had to pay a pretty hefty fine for being out of compliance, right?
00:48:01Would that have to continue or ramp up?
00:48:03No.
00:48:04So with the new EVs that we're launching, so right now we're working to sell all those to offset.
00:48:09So now that we have the two B, the best in the market, we still have, you know, three of the top five best-selling P-HEVs in the country.
00:48:15So we still are able to meet our compliance.
00:48:19Yeah.
00:48:20Okay.
00:48:24Stealth?
00:48:26That was a great car, wasn't it?
00:48:30Does that replace Durango?
00:48:33The RT twin turbo with all the steering, that was fun.
00:48:35Okay.
00:48:36There's probably a few of those around town.
00:48:37Well-trained.
00:48:38Okay.
00:48:39PR is convulsing out there.
00:48:40What about, okay, we're going to play that game.
00:48:42What about Viper?
00:48:43I mean, you know, Viper was such a, you know, five generations, such a cool, distinct-
00:48:47Well, that's coming back as a truck based on where they were sold, right?
00:48:49Okay.
00:48:50Yes.
00:48:51No, but like, and, you know, not only was it like a cool car, you know, the racing, it won Le Mans with it.
00:48:56Like, you know, it was real, stood out as something, you know, and again, if, you know, we win when we're different, man, that's about as different as things got.
00:49:03Like any, I know there's love internally in the company.
00:49:06Oh, yeah.
00:49:07There's a lot of us that love that car.
00:49:08Yeah.
00:49:09Me included.
00:49:10Yeah.
00:49:11I think there's absolutely opportunity, you know, if you look at the, as I said, we win when we're different.
00:49:18A halo car at the top end, but also a halo car at the entry level.
00:49:22You know, I think we, you know, there's a whole lot of getting back to the basics on just a car to be a car, a car to go out and have fun in.
00:49:28And sometimes that doesn't always have to be, you look at what the power sports industry has done as of late with a lot of these different entry models.
00:49:35There's something to be said for there.
00:49:37Like a little side-by-side taking over off-roading.
00:49:39Yeah.
00:49:40Or even, you know, the three-wheel performance.
00:49:43So there's opportunity at the entry level and the upper end of the market.
00:49:46I would love to see something.
00:49:47I think that, you know, we're always looking at what makes sense.
00:49:50But, yeah, the future is going to be bright.
00:49:52Okay.
00:49:53All right.
00:49:54Well, so I was going to ask, the guys asked me, would you guys do a Dodge, bring a Dodge Grand Caravan back on the next-gen platform for Pacifica?
00:50:03You know, Pacifica was the number one selling minivan in the country last year.
00:50:06It's a great vehicle.
00:50:07I actually launched that vehicle, shoot, too long ago now.
00:50:10I don't want to admit.
00:50:11But it's, that's the beauty of Stellantis is having brands that, you know, stand for each other.
00:50:17And Chrysler is 100 years old this year.
00:50:19So there's a lot of happening around the company.
00:50:21But, you know, we have Chrysler Dodge Jeep brand.
00:50:24And, you know, right now Pacifica is doing well and Chrysler's got a bright future.
00:50:28Okay.
00:50:29All right.
00:50:30There's a lot of minivan love.
00:50:32Yeah.
00:50:33Yes.
00:50:34For some reason I can't figure out.
00:50:35All right.
00:50:36Let's move off because we're out of time.
00:50:37Let's talk a little bit about you.
00:50:40Is there anything within the Stellantis family of brands you wish you could put a Dodge, put some Dodge love on and take to market?
00:50:49Be like, oh, man.
00:50:52You know, I mean I don't think there's anything I would say that's in the current portfolio.
00:50:59Well, Stellantis, oh, there's some, we have some great platforms.
00:51:02That's one of the things that, you know, we need to start doing a better job of is working together with the platforms around the globe and bringing the synergies and figuring out where they fit within the different countries.
00:51:13I think, you know, as I said, the entry level and halo, both of those, I think there's opportunities.
00:51:18Would love to see something.
00:51:20But, you know, a lot of work has to go into pulling that off.
00:51:23Okay.
00:51:25You're all from a competitive, not outside of Stellantis.
00:51:30I'm sure you do competitive testing.
00:51:31Is there any, you know, here's a chance.
00:51:35Say something nice about another car.
00:51:36Yeah.
00:51:37Never happened.
00:51:38But anything out there you're like, man, those are pretty good.
00:51:42Like those.
00:51:44Or put another way, when you were developing the Charger, were there other EVs that you benchmarked where you're like, hmm, yeah, that one.
00:51:51You must have drove the Plaid around.
00:51:54Yeah, we have a whole test fleet that we're always, you know, benchmarking, you know, what are the characteristics that we want to hone in on that makes it truly a Dodge.
00:52:03And we said there were four things when we built this car.
00:52:05It had to look like a Dodge, had to drive like a Dodge, had to feel like a Dodge and sound like a Dodge.
00:52:10I think it's more about driving the other cars to help you understand and narrow in on exactly what that means to be a Dodge.
00:52:18And I think that's what we're getting much better at.
00:52:21As we said, we're not trying to be everything to everybody.
00:52:23We're trying to hone in and, you know, keep that momentum alive.
00:52:28This might be a better question for engineers.
00:52:30And the reason I say that is like, you know, I was doing a development drive in the Arctic Circle with Mercedes with an electric G-Wagon.
00:52:39And I was asked that question.
00:52:40What did you benchmark?
00:52:41It's fascinating, you know.
00:52:42And they were like, oh, everything's terrible.
00:52:45Everything's horrible.
00:52:46Except for, you know, we had a Rivian.
00:52:48That really impressed us.
00:52:49Like that's a really neat truck.
00:52:52And so was there any like, you know, like, wow, we really like, you know.
00:52:56Well, a lot of times we'll go out and we'll benchmark, you know, multiple characteristics from multiple platforms.
00:53:01And we'll say, you know, we want the braking of this, acceleration of this, the storage capability of this.
00:53:05Gotcha.
00:53:06It's, we look at best in class.
00:53:09So a lot of times when we were developing that, you know, you're doing this four or five years out.
00:53:13It's always hard to know what's going to be best in class when you launch.
00:53:16But those are, we kind of set down.
00:53:17We want best in class performance.
00:53:19We want best in class leg room, cargo room.
00:53:22And especially when we're looking at the sedan segment and the full size sedan segment.
00:53:26You know, as we always said, we were never trying to be a me too with the Camaros and the Mustangs of the past.
00:53:31We were always, you know, we owned what we were, you know, bigger, you know, straight line performance.
00:53:36And we went all in on this next generation.
00:53:38So it wasn't about, it was saying, okay, what has made Dodge a Dodge and how do we double down and take it a step further?
00:53:45And there was a wonderful, like, I don't know, honesty.
00:53:48Is that the word?
00:53:49Like we did, it was the final edition Challenger.
00:53:52We had like the shaker hood one.
00:53:54Oh yeah.
00:53:55Me and Christian Sebaugh.
00:53:56And we did that versus like the Mustang Dark Horse or something.
00:53:58And it was one of those funny reviews.
00:53:59It was like, well, you know, technically the Mustang, it definitely, you know, it was quicker on the track.
00:54:04But man, I really liked driving the Challenger.
00:54:07And like, technically, you know, but we always came back.
00:54:10This is the one we'd buy, even though like there wasn't a performance metric, you know, where it was, it was superior.
00:54:15But it was just like, just, it just, it was what it was in a great way.
00:54:19At the end of the day, it put a smile on your face.
00:54:21Yeah.
00:54:22A bigger smile.
00:54:23You could get in and out of it.
00:54:24You can feed your friends and family and take stuff with you.
00:54:25Yeah.
00:54:26Yeah.
00:54:27So.
00:54:28Okay.
00:54:29How about China?
00:54:30Your colleagues in town, I talked to some of the Ford guys.
00:54:33Farley's been very vocal about it.
00:54:35And the GM guys also.
00:54:36They apparently, a whole bunch of Chinese cars are running on the tour.
00:54:39Are you getting into, are you doing any looking outside?
00:54:42I mean, the cars you spoke of, none of them play in China.
00:54:47But are you still looking?
00:54:49Are you evaluating stuff?
00:54:50Are you like?
00:54:51Yeah.
00:54:52You know, we always do benchmarking around the globe.
00:54:54And we've done some, a lot of it with our colleagues that are in China and, you know, the engineering reports.
00:54:59And we've done, gone through the seminars on what they've learned.
00:55:03They're making an incredible headway.
00:55:05They do some things very, very well, very, very smartly engineered in some of the things they do.
00:55:11And we have a partnership with Leap Motor that we're always learning from and working from.
00:55:14So I tend to, you know, talk with my colleagues that are in with Leap Motor and just understanding how they operate, how they go to market different enough.
00:55:22So what are their efficiencies and synergies?
00:55:25Is there learnings that we can, that we can take away from them?
00:55:28And we always are.
00:55:30We're constantly trying to figure out how we can be more efficient.
00:55:34Because what gives me a little bit of pause, and, you know, we had Jim Farley on.
00:55:38And you were saying this before we even had it, but he was like, China, China.
00:55:42You're just obsessed.
00:55:43Panic button.
00:55:44Yeah.
00:55:45But, you know, like last year, 2024, Americans bought 1.2 million EVs.
00:55:51Yeah.
00:55:521.3.
00:55:531.3.
00:55:54My math isn't great, but I think China buys that many a month.
00:55:57And so it's, like, all well and good that we have, you know, freedom of choice, as you said.
00:56:01But also, like, aren't they just going to eat our lunch if – like, you know what I mean?
00:56:06Like the U.S. is still a very big market.
00:56:08But China is now 10 million cars over that.
00:56:10And the rest of the world is going to say, well, do we want to throw in with the biggest market or the U.S.?
00:56:16And by the way, we're locked out of pickup truck sales in the U.S.
00:56:18So really it's only a 10 million vehicle market.
00:56:20I just – it's from a global –
00:56:23No, it's absolutely something that I think is our colleagues or Stellantis colleagues in Europe are facing a lot more pressure quickly.
00:56:31Yes.
00:56:32More quickly than we are here.
00:56:33We definitely have the worries of coming through Mexico and the distribution channels of could be coming in.
00:56:39I think that's – you know, speaking Dodge specifically from my standpoint, it comes back to we aren't the commoditized me-too car.
00:56:50We're not just an appliance for function from A to B.
00:56:54That's how we continue to stand out, how we continue to build brand loyalty and truly be what we are.
00:57:00We're never going to compete across the board in those markets.
00:57:04And I think when we have in the past, that's when we've had more challenges than we could overcome.
00:57:10So we're going to stay true to what we're doing and truly build muscle cars and performance cars.
00:57:16Ironically though, you should really consider sending like a handful of the Daytonas to China because I think they would stop traffic.
00:57:24They are so different looking over there than what's over there.
00:57:27Sorry.
00:57:28Also, like non-three rows are sort of weird.
00:57:30Yeah.
00:57:31But just a big old Charger just rolling through Shanghai would be like –
00:57:35You probably got a lot of people stopping you when you were driving it.
00:57:38It's amazing the attention it garners.
00:57:40Oh, yeah.
00:57:41I had a part of my driveway on Saturday morning.
00:57:43And then I said, it's an EV.
00:57:45And they're like, what?
00:57:46I'm like, yeah.
00:57:47I pulled up to the auto parts store a couple weeks ago with the Fratsonic on loud and the guy came out.
00:57:51I was standing there and he's, what the heck is under that hood?
00:57:54And I'm like, nothing.
00:57:55He couldn't figure it out.
00:57:57But he didn't know what it was, but he liked it.
00:57:59Yeah.
00:58:00Okay.
00:58:01So we'll wrap it up.
00:58:02I got one last question.
00:58:03You're new.
00:58:04You're pretty new in the role.
00:58:05How has it been?
00:58:06How is it going?
00:58:07I think I'm seven months in.
00:58:08Oh, wow.
00:58:09Still alive?
00:58:10Still smiling?
00:58:11Still smiling.
00:58:12That's the way to put it.
00:58:13No, I learn a little bit more every single day.
00:58:15And then I learn what I don't know yet.
00:58:17So it's been a lot of fun.
00:58:19Nothing's changed at work either.
00:58:21It's just been super smooth.
00:58:22No big, huge management change or weird stuff like that.
00:58:25No, nothing at all.
00:58:27That is a lot if you're a dude on the job.
00:58:29Like Tavares out and then a big change in political administration.
00:58:35It's a lot to juggle, right?
00:58:37The great thing is Antonio Filosa is terrific.
00:58:40He's a 25-year Stellantis veteran.
00:58:42So we've got a great team in place with Tim coming back.
00:58:46And just the ability that the chairman has given us to operate our business regionally now versus globally
00:58:55is taking the handcuffs off.
00:58:58We met with the dealers.
00:58:59They're super excited.
00:59:00The future is bright.
00:59:01We're able to put the changes in place that we know we need to grow market share,
00:59:06get back on the right path, get the throughput up,
00:59:09get the dealers healthy, get the communities healthy.
00:59:11And that's the exciting part.
00:59:13It's going to be a lot of fun this year.
00:59:15All right.
00:59:16Well, we wish you luck.
00:59:17Yeah.
00:59:18And thank you so much for coming on.
00:59:20And oh, well, the podcast is called The Inevitable.
00:59:24So the last question actually is are – in your mind, are EVs still inevitable?
00:59:30Absolutely.
00:59:32Okay.
00:59:33All right.
00:59:34Maybe not to the same market share volume they were a year ago,
00:59:37but they're definitely part of the future and they're here.
00:59:40All right.
00:59:41Awesome.
00:59:42Thank you so much.
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