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00:00The way I was looking at it, Mr. Iblamsen, his MD, Ms. Kristalina, she has also praised
00:07it.
00:08The Prime Minister himself has also expressed that incident.
00:11Along with that, it is obvious that IMF is in the 23rd program, they have also had various
00:16meetings in the past.
00:17So, there is so much debate on meetings, on the media, as Mr. Arana Sinalo is saying.
00:24Do you think there is a storm in the tea cup?
00:28Is there no such kind of meet in this story that is being tried to find in it?
00:34Mr. Chaudhary.
00:35No, if the head of the IMF is praising that you have acted on our request, then what
00:44do you mean by that?
00:46Don't bring it under discussion.
00:48Let it be like that.
00:50But this visit of the Supreme Court, of this delegation, and the mention of good governance
00:57corruption and these things in it, in fact, the name of its mission is such.
01:03So, if you ignore it, it means that the loot that you have created or the darkness that
01:10has been created in Pakistan, you should now be worried that if you cannot bring good
01:17governance, then today or tomorrow they will hit you on the face.
01:22The gamblers give you money.
01:25But today they have praised, so one must acknowledge that the IMF chief has appreciated
01:33Pakistani effort to fulfill the requirements for getting further tranches of loans from
01:42IMF.
01:43So, that is understood.
01:45But if you want to keep corruption and looting at bay, then I am sorry, this will not work.
01:53Okay, Shoaib, tell me that, obviously, they will prepare a comprehensive report on this
02:00because they are meeting with various institutions.
02:03So, in your opinion, you have been looking at the finance ministry for a long time.
02:08This time, the benchmark that will be set, as you have said, its purpose is that a new
02:13benchmark will be set, which we will have to fulfill.
02:16As a Pakistani, I think we need reform.
02:19If the IMF tells us something good, then there is no harm in acting on it.
02:23So, why are we hearing some noise about it for no reason?
02:30The thing is that in 2018, the IMF introduced the GCDA.
02:37This is happening in Pakistan right now.
02:39Yesterday, I was reading its financial report, and in that financial report, they have removed
02:43the skin of the hair.
02:44The situation in Pakistan at the moment, if they had compiled this report, then there is
02:49a possibility that it will be documented and historical.
02:55Because they are going to do it in 20 countries.
02:57We have published four such reports so far.
03:00Of Sri Lanka, Mauritania, Zambia and Mali.
03:04The reports that are coming out, I have seen that they have removed the skin of the hair
03:10and kept it in a line.
03:11So, if such reports come out about Pakistan, and if such things come out in these circumstances,
03:18then in the coming times, it will also affect the other donors of Pakistan.
03:23The issues of governance are not only for Pakistan, but also for the ADB and the World Bank.
03:29The issues of transparency will also go up to there.
03:31So, the government of Pakistan is trying to provide the information they are asking for
03:39so that there is no doubt in their minds.
03:43Mr. Chaudhary wants to ask a question.
03:46Yes, Mr. Chaudhary.
03:48Mr. Nizami, is the Supreme Court visit a routine matter of the IMF?
03:54How many visits have been made to the Supreme Court before?
03:57And now, the ones of the Imam Nishti.
04:03Mr. Chaudhary, because this security has never been asked from us by the IMF.
04:09The diagnostic assessment of corruption and governance came in 2018.
04:16This is the first time it is coming to Pakistan like this.
04:18And yesterday, Hassan Ayub was also discussing in the programme
04:22that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is not only the CJP,
04:26but he also has other responsibilities because of which he had to meet.
04:30And the Finance Minister has told him to go and meet the CJP himself.
04:34And he will handle all the issues himself.
04:36Let's stay with us. I would like to ask Hassan about this further.
04:42Obviously, not less than his own MD is saying that
04:46all the commitments that Pakistan has made with us,
04:48I am looking at it from a different angle.
04:50There is a need for reforms in Pakistan.
04:52If there is a question, there is a need for reforms.
04:54There is a need for radical changes in Pakistan.
05:00There is a need to solve the problems in justice in Pakistan.
05:05There is a need for protection of property rights.
05:08There is a concern about property rights.
05:10The reason for the meeting is that the head of NJPMC,
05:13which is the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
05:15who is the Zilli Committee of the Law and Justice Commission.
05:19And the chairman of the Law and Justice Commission is also the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
05:23So when he becomes the Chief Justice and gets the constitutional post,
05:26then automatically the head of these Zilli institutions is also the Chief Justice.
05:30There are chairmen, there are presidents, there are heads.
05:33That is, if you look at the Supreme Judicial Council,
05:35its head is also the Chief Justice.
05:36The head of the Judicial Commission is also the Chief Justice.
05:38Similarly, the head of NJPMC, National Judicial Policymaking, is also the Chief Justice.
05:46Now he has to tell what policymaking work is being done, what reforms are being done.
05:50He has explained this little thing.
05:52And went ahead.
05:53There are issues of property, there are litigations,
05:55then there are some litigations of the FBI,
05:57where whatever is there, that is, the structural changes that are coming,
06:01he talked about accountability.
06:03So he did not meet as the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
06:07This meeting, you understand this a little technically.
06:10Now, whatever color you want to give it,
06:13but such a meeting has never happened in the past,
06:15but as Shoaib is telling in other 20 countries,
06:18this thing is being replicated there too.
06:21This thing will happen there too.
06:22So he has picked 20 countries.
06:24Pakistan also falls on that, unfortunately.
06:26Now the reforms that should be in Pakistan,
06:28the discipline of the IMF is very strict,
06:30there is belt tightening,
06:31but for whose betterment?
06:33For our own betterment.
06:34And what the Chief Justice of the IMF said, that is positive.
06:38One more thing is very important.
06:40We as Pakistanis,
06:43have to see that if from the IMF,
06:45the loan that Pakistan is getting,
06:48other donors are also clubbed from it.
06:51So if we support this or do something against it,
06:54then it will not be democratic.
06:56The guidance given by Bani Chairman Tariq-e-Ansar,
06:59which is a dossier of 400 pages,
07:02is basically an effort to defame Pakistan internationally.
07:07In this regard, the letters that are being written,
07:09sometimes to the Chief Justice,
07:11sometimes to the Chief Army Staff,
07:14the purpose of these letters is that
07:16the propaganda that they have to do,
07:18the campaign against Pakistan,
07:20in that they are basically giving fuel to it.
07:23This is the objective.
07:24First they had to write a letter to the IMF,
07:26that how to give to Pakistan,
07:27that Pakistan should default like Sri Lanka.
07:29Alhamdulillah, Pakistan has become stable today.
07:30The IMF is also praising it.
07:31That thing is not being digested by them.