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00:00to Greg Cosell, who joins us right now on the River Islands guest line, the czar of NFL films,
00:05as it is Super Bowl week, a very, very big week. Good afternoon, Greg. How you doing?
00:12Gentlemen, how are you? Oh, we're fantastic. We got to be we got to admit, we've been like knee
00:17deep in in the NBA trade deadline all week. So it's almost like you have Yeah, the Super Bowl
00:23is almost kind of sneaking up on us. But when you look at this matchup, just sort of the view from
00:2910,000 feet, Greg, like what are some of the specific matchups that you think are kind of
00:35the linchpins to to what's going to happen here? Well, guys, you know, the kind of work I do. So
00:41that's a hard question. There's probably 20 things I could talk about. You know, obviously,
00:46from a 30,000 foot point of view, what is Steve Spagnuolo going to do to stop Barkley? And you
00:53know what, because I go deep in the weeds, I think about it in terms of what, what is he going to do
00:57with the defensive front? Is he going to play a five man front at times when they're normally a
01:02four man D line? How's he going to deploy his linebackers bold and tranquil? You know, is he
01:07going to run blitz on early downs? And will the Eagles believe it or not, maybe be a little more
01:12aggressive in the past game on early down, because they know they're going to get one on one matchups
01:17outside the numbers. And that's the strength of hurts as a passive throwing outside the numbers
01:22with Brown and Smith, maybe versus McDuffie and Watson. So yeah, I think there's, you know,
01:27that element on that side of the ball is really fascinating to me, because, you know,
01:31spags is not just going to line up and play like it's a regular team. Would that be almost a give
01:37up by Philadelphia, Greg, a team that rushed it more times than any other team in the NFL feels
01:43like their best foot forward is the ground game. What do they do with the rushing attack that makes
01:49it so difficult to stop outside of, you know, how much of the read actually do with Jalen hurts?
01:54Well, there's a couple of factors there. First of all, the old line is obviously phenomenal.
01:59It's the best run blocking all right in the league. It weighs more than 1700 pounds. And
02:03they wear you out through the course of the game. But the other thing that's really interesting
02:07about their offense and their run game is it's really kind of layered. You know, everybody just
02:11thinks they handed to Barkley and he runs and they got a good all line and boy, it's all good.
02:16But there's so many layers to their run game because you have hurts predominantly in the gun.
02:21And when he's in the gun, you always have the zone read as an option. So you have to defend
02:26that you have to allocate a defender to hurts all the time when he's in the gun. And then there's
02:33other elements that they add, they add screen elements. So defenders react to that. So there's
02:39so many layered parts to just what ends up being basic runs. And the other thing that they started
02:45to do exceptionally well is motion. And mostly we think of motion guys in the past game,
02:51but motion's a really big deal in the run game too, because what that often does is it changes
02:58run support for the defense. So you're trying to minimize run support. You're trying to gain
03:03numbers in the run game. They did that beautifully, for instance, on Barkley 65 yard touchdown run on
03:09the very first play against the commanders when they use motion and then put the run
03:14numbers in their favor. They're really good with motion in the run game.
03:19Greg, I'm glad you brought that up, that specific player, that specific thing.
03:24The run game for the Eagles is obviously such a strength, but so is what the Chiefs have done
03:31against the run game, both in the playoffs in the past. And even this year, like they just
03:36usually do not give up a 100 yard rusher. When you look at the specificity of that matchup,
03:42do you see an edge somewhere? I mean, I would still give the edge for the Eagles,
03:47but it's not a big edge in the sense that they're so much better. But the thing is guys,
03:52and I know you watch the games, when you watch the Eagles play, it just seems inevitable that
03:57Barkley's going to break a long run somewhere along the line. So obviously the Chiefs really
04:02want to prevent that. We'll see how the game goes. The great thing about a game like this is
04:07you can talk about what's happened up to this point, but there's always a few
04:12tweaks and wrinkles because teams have had two weeks to prepare that we just don't know about.
04:17But the thing with Barkley is you can theoretically stop them. In other words,
04:22maybe he gains two yards, three yards, four yards, two yards, one yard,
04:26and then all of a sudden he breaks one off and that's the killer. And the other thing to remember
04:31about the Eagles, the Chiefs are kind of like this too, but the Eagles are really probably
04:35the best purveyor of this in the league because they are a four down offense.
04:40So once they get to their own 40 yard line, okay, the minus 40 yard line, if it's fourth and four,
04:46three, they're going for it. They are not punting. And that changes the way you have to play defense
04:53because if it's third and nine and you give up seven yards and you think, hey, we get them off
04:57the field, you're not getting the Eagles off the field. They go for it. So that clearly changes
05:03how you have to play defense. And is that something that Kansas City mirrors? I can't
05:08help but think about Patrick Mahomes in this game and how clutch he's been not only throughout this
05:13year, but is Kansas City a similar offense in terms of their willingness to go for it on fourth
05:19and medium? Yes. Yes. My sense is I could be wrong because I don't have numbers in front of me.
05:27It seems to me the Eagles do it a little more, but the Chiefs absolutely do it.
05:31But one thing that Chiefs are exceptional at, and this is a critical down in this game on
05:36that side of the ball, is they are phenomenal on third down. They convert at a really high rate,
05:42over 50%, and they do it with a combination of scheme, tactics, and obviously personnel.
05:48And that's the challenge for the Eagles defense, third down. And obviously third down is relative.
05:54Third and three, you're thinking different defensively than third and nine, but this is
05:58where the Chiefs are so good. And we all know that Mahomes does tend to run more in the playoff,
06:03so that becomes a factor. So in a sense, if you're the Eagles, it's almost as if you have
06:08to have two defenses. You have to have your structured defense in which you hope the play
06:12occurs, which, you know, is within 2.5 seconds. But then when you get beyond 2.5 seconds,
06:18where Mahomes is so special, it's almost as if you have to have a second defense,
06:23and that's what makes it difficult. Greg Cosell, NFL Films, at the Super Bowl with
06:28us here with it in Divs, 95-7 the game. Greg, for whatever reason, when these two
06:34have matched up in recent years, Devontae Smith has been wonderful, and I know he's a little
06:39dinged up with the hamstring. But assuming he plays and he goes, is there something on film
06:46that you notice as to why he's able to get loose, or is it kind of circumstantial?
06:51Um, I think it becomes a factor. Look, obviously, everybody remembers the Super Bowl two years ago,
06:56but these two teams played last year in Week 11, and that's when the Chiefs had Lajarious Sneed,
07:03and he matched up to A.J. Brown pretty much the whole game, and Brown only had one catch
07:08for eight yards. Now, Sneed's not there, but McDuffie's still there, and Spagnola's going
07:13to play a lot of man coverage. That's what he does. He plays press man. That's his deal.
07:19So the question is, and we don't know the answer to this, but the question is, will he match
07:24McDuffie on Brown, or will he just play side, and whoever ends up being over McDuffie is over
07:29McDuffie? We don't know the answer to that, but Smith is a really good receiver, and he kind of
07:34gets lost in the shuffle a little bit, because Brown is probably a top-five receiver in the league,
07:39but Devontae Smith could easily be a big factor in this game. What about the battle of the tight
07:43ends, because Travis Kelsey gets all the headlines because of his excellent play and his
07:49quite famous girlfriend, but Dallas Goddard, quietly since getting healthy, has been very
07:54effective. Yeah, and Goddard is very much a function of the schematics of the Eagles,
08:00because the Eagles' passing game is not really that multi-dimensional, because that's where
08:05Hurts had some limitations. Hurts does not throw the ball in the middle of the field very often.
08:10Think about this, guys. In the NFC Championship game, Jalen Hurts, I think, dropped back over
08:1430 times. He did not throw one ball between the numbers in the entire game. Think about that.
08:21So Goddard becomes kind of more important within the schematics of what they do with the pass game,
08:26how they get him the ball with space and room to run, as opposed to hitting him, let's say,
08:31the way we normally think of tight ends in the middle of the field. Now, Kelsey, it's been an
08:36odd year for him. It's been his worst year. He averaged 8.5 yards per reception. He had the
08:42fewest number of receptions that went for first downs that he's had in a long, long time, probably
08:47since close to his rookie season. So he's been a little bit of a different player in the context
08:52of their offense, but you obviously can't ignore him, and no one would be surprised, obviously,
08:58if he went eight for one ten at this game. Maybe he's Kelsey. So it's not as if the Eagles can
09:03ignore him, but the Eagles are a nickel defense. They play man and zone. It would not surprise me
09:08when they play man, particularly if the Chiefs have two tight ends on the field. It would not
09:14surprise me if Cooper Dejean is the matchup on Kelsey. Greg, I'm interested in this because,
09:21and you talk about Kelsey, I'm interested in the other Kelsey, because last year,
09:25when the Tush push really became a thing, a lot of people went, it's the personnel,
09:30it's what Jason Kelsey is doing, but the Tush push for the Eagles has worked again this year.
09:34It doesn't work for every team, and we saw Josh Allen not have great success with it against
09:40these Chiefs, so when they get to that play, do you think the Chiefs have some sort of an answer,
09:47or is it going to be same old, same old, and why does it work for the Eagles and not seemingly
09:53everyone else? Well, it pretty much worked for the Bills in every game they played until that game,
09:58so it does kind of work for everyone else too, but that's the game people remember because the
10:04Bills ran it a few times and it didn't work, but for the Eagles, they pretty much don't get stopped.
10:10My guess is that they'll still run it really well, and by the way, that becomes a big factor
10:17because again, that's a fourth down play as well, and they convert on those. That's a meaningful
10:24part of their offense. Looking at these two teams stylistically, if the Chiefs are going to win,
10:30is it more low-scoring, or is it the Eagles needing a high-scoring game? Just looking at
10:34the film and the tempo and how these teams go about it, what do you see from a pace and tempo
10:40style which would favor either team? Yeah, that's a great question because I think that, you know,
10:47it's a great question and a hard question to answer because here, let me answer it this way.
10:51The Chiefs actually have two really burner wideouts in Worthy and Brown, but yet they
10:57haven't really been an explosive offense. Now, Brown's only come back recently, so you can look
11:02at what they've done all year long, and they've not been an explosive passing game. They've really
11:07been a third-down convergent offense, but we know Mahomes can make any throw. We know that Brown and
11:13Worthy can run. I believe that they are going to attempt some vertical throws in this game,
11:18particularly going against Darius Slay. Now, if they convert those, we could see some big plays.
11:23If not, then they'll be more of a sustaining offense. The Eagles, by their nature, are a
11:29sustaining offense, but because of Barkley, they can be an explosive offense as well. So,
11:35it's hard to know. I mean, I think both teams are going to take some shots early in this game to see
11:42if they can hit big plays, and I think how that turns out will dictate a little bit about the pace
11:48and tempo of the game. It's interesting, Greg, because we've heard you often this year. We talk
11:53about the Eagles, and you've had some real insight on Jalen Hurts and what's kind of, I guess,
12:00not working in the pass game, but listening to you talk about this matchup, it sounds like you're
12:05expecting the Eagles to check in on that passing game, maybe a little more than they have been in
12:10the past. I would think they would check in early and see how it goes. Yes, I do, because they know
12:16that the Chiefs' focus will be on Barkley, and they also know that Spaggs, unlike some other
12:25teams—see, now it becomes opponent-based. Spaggs does play man coverage and press man
12:30on the outside. That's what he does. That's a foundation of his defense, so there are going
12:37to be opportunities one-on-one outside the numbers, and that's where Hurts throws the ball
12:42best. So I'm not suggesting he's going to drop back 50 times, guys. Don't get me wrong. I just
12:47think they are going to take some shots early and see how it goes. When you look at some of the
12:53gadgetry and some of the trick stuff that he's done, do you look at Kansas City and their use
12:58of Xavier Worthy and whether or not it's Patrick Mahomes being split wide? Does Kansas City have
13:04some wrinkles that you've seen on tape that might catch Philadelphia off guard? Well, if there are
13:10wrinkles like that in this game, there won't be any that we've seen on tape. There'll be something
13:15brand new, and it's very likely that each team will have a couple in the bag, and they'll decide
13:21if and when they want to use them depending on the flow of the game, but they won't be something
13:25that we've seen this year. Greg, I'm interested. When I hear people break down this matchup,
13:32because of the Chiefs and the Chiefs, I hear people a lot talking about the big game experience
13:38and the success that they've had. You're a film guy, and so I wonder when you're breaking things
13:44down, how do you factor in something like experience? I mean, I really can't, to be honest
13:52with you. I mean, obviously, we know that Mahomes is the kind of quarterback that no moment is too
13:57big for him, so we know that if it gets down. I mean, obviously, I'm sure you've heard a lot of
14:02people say this week in between discussing Jimmy Butler that if Mahomes gets the ball and he's down
14:08by two with two minutes to go that the Chiefs are going to win the game. There's no way to
14:13quantify that. It just happens. Mahomes wins those games. He does not get stopped, so there's no way
14:20on film to get into some guy's head and understand what experience means, but it's obviously a
14:27team that's been in a lot of these situations, so it's not a new situation for them at all,
14:33and it all stems from the quarterback, who I'm sure is incredibly calm in the huddle, and he plays
14:39very calmly. Greg, what a treat to have you all football season long. These conversations have
14:45been wonderful. I do wonder if you've done any film or at least audio breakdown of both me and
14:53Dibbs this year and what you would say about that. Well, guys, I hate to say this, but I really
15:01haven't. Now that the season is sort of winding down, I've already started and jumped in hard
15:07to watching college players, so that's my focus now, and that's a little bit of a different focus,
15:13but that's a total grind in a different kind of way. No, that's totally fair. Who should the
15:18Niners take at 11, Greg? I'm not there yet, and I don't necessarily think like that. I just love
15:24evaluating players. I mean, I've done three quarterbacks already in hardcore detail. Those
15:30guys I'm done with, and I've seen some defensive players. I just start grinding away watching guys.
15:37It's a different kind of experience, so it really becomes fun. Well, when you get to
15:42all the three techniques and the left and right guards and maybe the right tackles,
15:47we'll call you back and you can give us a detailed breakdown of the big guys that the Niners might
15:52want. You know, on Radio Row the last couple of days, Fred Warner was walking around a lot. I
15:58don't know him, so I didn't say hello, but those guys, the stars that walk around on Radio Row
16:03here, as you guys know, I'm sure always have an entourage. No doubt. Oh yeah, no doubt.
16:09And I don't have an entourage, and I always wonder about that. I don't have that.
16:13Greg, we can work on that for you. Yeah, we'll get you an entourage. We'll get you a corporate
16:18sponsor and, you know, puff your chest out and let's do this next year. I think you guys need
16:24to help me out there and get me an entourage and a corporate sponsor. No problem. Then I can walk
16:28around like I'm really important. Goals, Greg. We're going to keep working on this, okay?
16:35Have a great trip out there. Thank you so much. All right, guys. Love being with you. Thanks so
16:40much. All right. Thanks, Greg. There it is. Greg Cosell, NFL Films.