In this episode of the All 32 NFL Podcast, Mike Giardi dives deep into the recent firing of Patriots head coach Jerod Mayo and the implications for the franchise moving forward.
0:00 Intro
2:57 - Vikings' missed opportunities
8:48 - Tampa Bay's win
12:01 - Coaching changes discussion
15:13 - Jerod Mayo fired
22:20 - Coaching candidates
34:11 - Jaguars
36:01 - Giants management decisions
41:30 - Miami's roster issues
45:39 - Antonio Pierce's future
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0:00 Intro
2:57 - Vikings' missed opportunities
8:48 - Tampa Bay's win
12:01 - Coaching changes discussion
15:13 - Jerod Mayo fired
22:20 - Coaching candidates
34:11 - Jaguars
36:01 - Giants management decisions
41:30 - Miami's roster issues
45:39 - Antonio Pierce's future
************************************************
Patriots Content Brought to you by....
💰 Prize Picks - https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CLNS
Download the app today and use Code CLNS at PrizePicks.com/CLNS & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!
🎫 Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Terms apply. What time is it? Gametime!
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SportsTranscript
00:00It is caught! Touchdown!
00:04The New England Patriots select Drake May.
00:08He's got the ball! And that's the ballgame!
00:12Back here with the All-32 pod, Mike Giardi alongside Will Parkinson. As always,
00:16it is Monday, January 6th. Week 18 is done.
00:20Playoff football is on the horizon. However, there is Black Monday,
00:24which we'll get into. Not necessarily, at least to this point, as crazy
00:28as we might have thought. The games on Sunday,
00:32low-key, stunk. But there were a few games that had
00:36some implications, so we'll get into that in a second. A reminder, of course, the show brought to you by
00:40PrizePix, the exclusive daily fantasy partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:44And, of course, game time, best tickets, best prices to get you in to see any event
00:48you want to see. You and I were, like, bouncing off the walls,
00:52getting ready for Sunday night football. Minnesota going to Detroit.
00:56Minnesota spends $2 million on the seats behind the bench.
01:00Getting to their fans. I'm sure that got to Dan Campbell,
01:04and I'm sure he weaponized that at some point. But the Lions
01:08in the second half absolutely opened up a giant can
01:12of whoop-ass. 31-9 is your final. The Lions secure the number one
01:16overall seed in the NFC, get the first round by. Meanwhile, the Vikings,
01:20despite 14 wins, they got to go on the road in the first round of the playoffs
01:24where they'll visit the LA Rams.
01:28Of course, there was something that big came out of that as Kevin O'Connell and Dan Campbell shake hands.
01:32Dan Campbell says, we'll see you in two weeks. Is he right?
01:36Yeah, I think he is. There's the one caveat, I will say,
01:40that Jalen Hurts being a concussion protocol still does make you go,
01:44okay, that's not great. Green Bay is, well, they didn't play
01:48well, and a million things with them. We know
01:52they could beat anybody on any given Sunday, and we saw it last year.
01:56Look, I think last night's game was, and I tweeted this,
02:00I really believe Kevin O'Connell, and to some extent Ben Johnson, kept a lot
02:04in their bag. I thought Detroit had went a little harder knowing they needed this, that buy.
02:08Just again, Terry Norman will get to it last night. Jameer Gibbs, well,
02:12played fantastic. He got
02:16rocked a little bit. I felt like the
02:20lines, I don't want to say they emptied their bag either because we know Ben Johnson
02:24has got quite a deep bag in terms of play calling. I felt like
02:28Minnesota defensively had a really good play in the first half.
02:32I thought the dam broke eventually, which it always, in the NFL,
02:36generally speaking, the dam always breaks on defense a little bit. You've still got to
02:40punch in your opportunities. Minnesota didn't, I don't want to say they played tight,
02:44but I thought they were too amped up for this game. I thought this was a good learning experience
02:48for a team that all year has handled the pressure well. They've won a lot of big games at
02:52home. It would have been nice to get a third game at home, but
02:56I felt like Sam was too hyped up.
03:00Frankly, Justin Jefferson was too hyped up. I thought Jefferson was
03:04pretty bad yesterday for his standard. Well, for his standard, he was terrible, but for any
03:08standard, I mean, Meek Robinson, no offense, is not
03:12prime Darrell Revis. Even the Jefferson
03:16play that he got the most open all game, I know he got open on the one that Darnell
03:20missed him in the back of the end zone onto the right side on the right pylon, but the
03:24one completion he had, even then, I know he flopped, but it was
03:28like he really didn't have a lot of separation there either. I want to give Robertson credit.
03:32I felt like the Vikings were too hyped up, and I felt like O'Connell did not
03:36fully empty his bag. I didn't think they, I thought
03:40Aaron Glenn was great last night, for sure. Brian Flores had a really nice
03:44half. Overall, these two teams were kind of feeling each other out. It felt like a boxing match.
03:48Minnesota should have won this game, if we're being honest.
03:52Three, four trips down the red zone. They were pretty much inside the five, inside the
03:56ten, no touchdowns, a couple field goals, missed it on a couple times. Sam
04:00felt hesitant to make the mistake, which is fine
04:04in a lot of ways, but he was just high last night.
04:08Having watched Sam in person for a long time, when he's high, he's
04:12just a tick off. Again, I don't think the Lions, Gibbs was special last night,
04:16but I don't think the Lions were special last night, from an offensive perspective.
04:20The awful interception in the golf through, coming out in Harrison Smith. Again, the Vikings don't capitalize
04:24because they're kicking. That's one thing that came out of this game in the last two weeks.
04:28I'll turn it over to you here, but the kicking is a problem.
04:32The kickoff right before the half, huge game changer. I thought it was a big game
04:36changer. I thought Minnesota was feeling good about themselves. Hey, we're going to double up.
04:40End of the half, kick a field goal. We didn't play our best half, but we can come out here and score right away
04:44and we can double up on you. Instead, Detroit gets to kick a field goal at the end of the half, and you're
04:48like, shoot.
04:52I truly felt like, as long as Darnold's healthy, they come
04:56out of this game, and O'Connell's probably like, I'm almost kind of
05:00not happy we lost, but we can beat this team.
05:04This feels like they need a third opportunity, and I think we
05:08very well might get that.
05:12You were very good there on the Vikings, so I'll leave that over here.
05:16To me, we've talked about a lot in the last five or six weeks about the breaking point that Detroit had reached
05:20defensively because of all the... I know exactly where you're going with this one.
05:24Aaron Glenn had himself a night, and the pressure,
05:28constant pressure, zero blitzes, threw more at Sam and
05:32got more pressure on Sam, I think helped. He's feeling
05:36maybe a little bit too amped up, and now we've got pressure on his face, and now the ball's
05:40really starting to fly. They hit him a lot last night. A lot, and I give him credit.
05:44He stood in there and took some hellacious hits, but look, we know this. It doesn't matter who
05:48you are. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, pick your favorite
05:52quarterback. If you start hitting them early and often, it tends to
05:56carry an impact in the third and fourth quarters. It certainly did in this game. Aaron Glenn,
06:00though, was in your bag. He was definitely in his bag.
06:04Everyone was joking on Twitter last night.
06:08Give him all the interviews, and he's going to have one with New Orleans now.
06:12He did a really terrific job there, and that was a big win for them.
06:16They needed a break. They're going to get the break, and who knows?
06:20We'll see what the Terry and Arnold situation is. We'll see if some of these injured guys
06:24can get back for them, but definitely a chance for them to catch their breath, and they deserve it.
06:28It's been a... I think the third matchup, if they get it, will be a better game. I thought the first game was
06:32awesome last night. I'm telling you, I just felt there was so much anticipation, so much
06:36there. Minnesota hasn't been in this type of game, and Detroit really has
06:40rarely and definitely not at home. It was maybe the Rams game last year, but other than that,
06:44the Bucks game didn't have a lot of hype during the playoffs last year because I think people just assumed
06:48they'd win, and then they go on the road to San Francisco, and the Lions themselves
06:52got too hyped up. They played that great first half and all fell apart.
06:56Again, they needed it, but as you know,
07:00I know a few Patriots fans listen to this, and it felt a little
07:04very different, but it did have that feel of that Monday night game
07:08where the Jets just could not figure it out. They just kept shooting themselves in the foot, and the Patriots ran
07:12all over them, and it was like, wow. If these teams play a third time, and
07:16when you play a third time, there's always... We've seen Raven Steelers. Look, that game's
07:20going to be disgusting on Saturday, but again, it's a third time, and you just...
07:24The more you see somebody, the less you can get away with them, the more creative you are,
07:28and both these teams are super creative, so it would be interesting if they do play a third time scheme-wise.
07:32As O'Connell prepared, they didn't run enough screens
07:36last night. They didn't do some delayed handoffs, things like that. I felt
07:40like they didn't run the ball at all, and they were getting success.
07:44Four yards of pop in the NFL is okay, and that's my one fear with
07:48play callers on the offensive side of the ball, and we'll talk about coaches here in a moment, but
07:52even McVay and Kyle and stuff, they either get very conservative
07:56or they just abandon the run so fast, and it's like
08:00Sam's really good at play action and taking those deep shots, and
08:04they're telling you, we're going to take 18 away. Do something else, and they couldn't,
08:08and it was bad. You might be too young to remember this.
08:12The chicks dig the long ball. Well, play callers dig the pass.
08:16It's just something... They get into this habit, and it's just a little bit sexier,
08:20right? They're just like, oh, this little design, I have this little motion. He definitely
08:24fell into it. We talked about on Friday the idea of, hey, I think you want to
08:28control the ball a little bit, and Aaron Jones should be a big part of that. Aaron went last night.
08:32He's definitely dealing with something, but
08:36regardless, I do agree with Dan Campbell. I think we see
08:40those two teams see each other in two weeks. There were two other games that ended up
08:44locking up playoff spots. Tampa Bay,
08:48it was a pretty hard-fought win against the Saints. The Saints gave them all they could handle, and then some
08:52Baker Mayfield struggled for a good long portion of this game, and then
08:56late, he got going. And then, of course, Denver just absolutely
09:00buries Kansas City's backups. Edited my dreams of a Joe Burrow,
09:04Cincinnati Bengals sliding into the playoffs. That game was disgusting
09:08how lopsided it was. The Chiefs very happy to shut everybody
09:12down for that one. So the Bucs win. They win the division.
09:16Atlanta, it was a little neck and neck there. They were kind of going back and forth, but
09:20it didn't matter anyways. Atlanta losing in overtime to Carolina. So the Bucs
09:24win and get a home date against the Commanders. That could be
09:28a really fun game. That should be a fun game. A couple of things
09:32on these, again, I don't want to hit this too much. You wonder,
09:36at least for Denver's sake, they have nothing to lose against Buffalo. I do think this will be a
09:40frisky game, at least for a half, maybe three-quarters, because again, Denver is
09:44really good defensively. Does Sertain cause problems
09:48on the outside as he neutralized one side of the field? Can Denver throw
09:52some blitzes at Allen? Can they use some different spies and different things to try to stymie
09:56them a little bit? They like to run the football in a physical game. I don't think they're going to be scared
10:00to go in there and muck it up a little bit. Hey, Bo Nix uses his legs once or twice.
10:04It's 13-10 Broncos with four to go in the third quarter.
10:08I still would pick Buffalo, but I'm just saying, while
10:12Burrow-Allen would have been the sexy game, this is probably the best two teams
10:16of what we saw all season. I want to just give Bryce Young a shout out.
10:20I know Atlanta was playing for something. Bryce Young is...Carolina has
10:24really figured it out here. I don't know how good they're going to be
10:28next year, because we still have so many holes in that roster. But Canales
10:32has kind of figured it out. It's a division win.
10:36It's a bad loss for Atlanta. Penix looks really good,
10:40and I think they have a quarterback. This division has
10:44three quarterbacks, I think. I don't really know what's going to
10:48happen in New Orleans, but the two of the younger guys in this division
10:52have looked really good. Penix in short sample size and Bryce Young.
10:56That's obviously the positive there. The Bucs,
11:00the 2015 Jets, Todd Bowles, same
11:04coach. They had Ryan Fitzpatrick, who got hot there. Very Baker Mayfield,
11:08gunslinger-ish Baker is a better player. Brandon Marshall had that career year. Mike Evans,
11:12very similar comp. Eric Decker, Chris Godwin, Ivory and Bucky Irving,
11:16and Blau Powell. They have so many similarities. The defense is the core of those
11:20championship game Jets teams. This defense is a lot of the core of that Super Bowl
11:24team. They just have such eerie similarities to
11:28each other, where they could beat anybody on any given day, but they
11:32can look like absolute crap. The last thing I'll say
11:36on this one, Jalen McMillan, to have that penalty, which
11:40I understand the rule is annoying. I get it, but it's the rule. It's always
11:44been the rule. It's a new rule and whatever, but everyone knows it.
11:48Instead of one finger, he throws the two-finger gun,
11:52whatever he wants everyone to call it. To have
11:56gotten picked, where the Patriots and the Jets and
12:00two teams we cover probably should have taken them and didn't.
12:04Malachi Corley, who just didn't play all year and from all indications
12:08is going to be a problem going forward. On the Patriots side,
12:12Javon Baker and a lot of the other guys.
12:16A lot of these other guys in that receiver room. McMillan, absolute stones
12:20on that catch. Baker's special throw. The game was over after that. Mike Evans gets
12:24his $3 million bonus. The Broncos-Chiefs game, again, maybe that
12:28builds some confidence. They go in a rational confidence mode going into Buffalo with nothing to lose in the Bucs.
12:32Again, can beat anybody, but
12:36we can see they can look really bad for some time and
12:40they cannot afford to do that, whether it's the Commanders or going forward after that.
12:44I might be feeling an upset special. We'll see when it comes to Commanders
12:48and Bucs when we get there at the end of the week, but definitely one of the ones that I looked at
12:52and I was like, Washington has a good vibe right now.
12:56100%. The Denver one is interesting because
13:00and we'll get into this. I don't even have to say it right now. The Bills out-tank
13:04the Patriots. The Bills were more than content to let you win
13:08and make sure you didn't get the number one pick. Well, I think Kansas City
13:12obviously, they're resting. They've got the number one overall seed.
13:16They want to get some of their guys a necessary break because they've been in so many one-score games.
13:20Flipside is like, you know, Denver, the way they
13:24play on the road. I know it's Bo Nix on the road, but it's a really
13:28good defense. Could Sertain have a pick six? Could they do some things
13:32to Josh Allen? And all of a sudden, in the fourth quarter, it's a really tight game in Buffalo.
13:36It sounds like Sean Payne's not a good coach. He's a little annoying, but he's
13:40obviously a very good coach. Yeah, so then all of a sudden, are you like, did they get a little tight
13:44there? Because obviously, this year was supposed to be a step
13:48back. Instead, it's been a step forward and now you start thinking to yourself, they beat Kansas City. They can go
13:52beat Kansas City. Well, just be careful because I think Denver
13:56in some ways is a very difficult matchup for them, at least in terms
14:00of their offense. All right, it is playoff time. It's now or never. Don't miss out on the last
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14:36run your game. All right, let's turn our attention to the coaches who are
14:40coming, going, front offices that are staying that probably shouldn't be.
14:44Obviously, the big one comes about 90 minutes after the Patriots
14:48stumble into a 23-16 victory over the
14:52Buffalo Bills, drop from number one in the draft order to number four.
14:56Gerard Mayo is fired. Was it
15:00unfair to a degree because of the
15:04situation that he inherited, his lack of experience, all those
15:08things? Yeah, Robert Kraft told us in his press conference about three hours ago, again, we're
15:12taping this about 4.30 on Monday afternoon, I put Gerard
15:16in an untenable situation. I feel guilty for putting him
15:20there, but we have to move forward. They did not see
15:24the signs of progress. In fact, they saw regression, which is what we've been talking about
15:28quite a bit here. I know
15:32that the fan base definitely
15:36influences, and Robert always references, well, I'm first and foremost a fan. No, you're
15:40a billionaire now. I mean, I know you want to win, but it's no longer your life's
15:44work. It's not really the same thing. Yeah, but there's the mixture
15:48of the anger and the apathy, and there was a lot of apathy. It's a half-empty
15:52building the last two weeks when I drove into the stadium.
15:56It was the easiest drive I've had since COVID. I kid you not, I leave the game
16:00for the games at the exact same time, a one o'clock game. I leave my house at 1030.
16:04Usually takes 40 minutes because of traffic. I was in the
16:08stadium, in the stadium, in 25 minutes, going
16:12up the elevator, just breezed right on in.
16:16The feeling in the stadium yesterday, too, they score
16:20points, and it was like, oh, no, you're not supposed to do that, and that's not a place you
16:24ever want to be, I think. So, look,
16:28Mayo was out over his skis the entire year.
16:32The job was too big for him, and again, part of that's not his fault.
16:36Five years of experience as an assistant coach, not even a
16:40coordinator. The whole succession plan was nonsensical because
16:44the guy that he was going to succeed basically didn't talk to him for the last year
16:48that they were together, the last season. So who exactly was teaching him
16:52the ropes of being an NFL head coach? Nobody. The ownership can't do that.
16:56Yeah, he was having meetings with them all during last year, but that can't prepare you for what you're supposed
17:00to do, and then, well, on top of that, he was hired as a culture
17:04slash leadership guy, right? This was more about that than it was
17:08the X, Z, and O's part of it, and the culture
17:12is a mess, and the attitude was a
17:16mess, and the leadership, the messaging from one week to the next, and I'm not
17:20just talking about to us in the press, where, as we've illustrated, he made
17:24a million missteps with the press, but it was also behind closed doors,
17:28and when guys don't know what's expected of them, or they're
17:32told it's one thing, and then the next day it changes,
17:36you can't set the proper example and set the program
17:40in the right direction if you're constantly changing the direction that you're going,
17:44changing how you treat players. So, between the on-field product, the
17:48dysfunction behind the scenes as well, there's definitely some push and pull between the front office
17:52and the coaching staff. Coaching staff basically saying, you didn't give us enough players.
17:56I mean, what are we talking about? And the front office saying, you didn't
18:00develop anybody we gave you. Drake May was the one rookie who obviously
18:04elevated, and quite frankly, he's talented enough where
18:08it probably wouldn't have... Yeah, no offense to Joe Milton, also had success yesterday. Yeah, right, it probably wouldn't have
18:12mattered who was in charge. He was still going to be
18:16somewhat successful on the playing field because he's the number three overall pick. He's
18:206'4", 225 pounds, and a pretty good head on his shoulders.
18:24So, it is quick. They want to make this
18:28decision very quickly. They want to move on very quickly. Robert Kraft said
18:32that in his press conference, like, we're going to move fast here. They requested
18:36an interview with Ben Johnson. Apparently, he's agreed to do that. Obviously, they're very interested
18:40in Mike Vrabel, but I just...
18:44I wonder how you look at it because I think we've talked about it quite a bit. Hemming and
18:48hawing, like, should they? Will they do it? Will they actually have the guts to do it? But at the end
18:52of the day, I just think it was too clear. You couldn't run it
18:56back and expect that it could be any better next year, and then all of a sudden
19:00you've wasted another year of Drake May's rookie contract. Yeah, I will say
19:04Robert Kraft has built up enough equity. They're not getting crushed anywhere near as hard as
19:08I thought they were going to by the talking heads on these debate shows. At least, I haven't
19:12seen much. Even Stephen A. Smith, who normally is quite outspoken
19:16about a lot of these different situations, was like, yeah,
19:20it's because Mike Vrabel's out there. And I think everyone's aware of
19:24why he got fired from on-field media
19:28and also who else is available. Where I'm not going to cut
19:32the Patriot slack is both guys were available last year.
19:36Ben Johnson was available last year. They had the number three overall pick. They had all this cap
19:40space. They had all these draft picks. Mike Vrabel was available last
19:44year and clearly wanted the job. And no interest
19:48because we had Gerrard, and this is a hand-picked thing, and you had a great article, obviously,
19:52detailing where this even came about,
19:56the origin of Gerrard Mayo being a head coach, and the whole
20:00thing. Look, I understand why
20:04they did it. Again, makes total sense. I've been on the show since
20:08July saying, I'm pretty sure they got the head coach wrong and he hasn't coached the game yet.
20:12And it's not like a new thing. I'm not saying it is. But I also
20:16think it's definitely a little bit of BS to pretend like the front office doesn't play
20:20a role in this. The coaching staff around Gerrard Mayo that a lot of these
20:24people that are not his guys played in. And one guy who is his guy,
20:28one of his biggest downfalls this year was the one guy who was his guy, Demarcus Covington,
20:32who I thought, of all the DCs in the league, might have had the worst year.
20:36Devin McCourty had a really interesting quote on
20:40I don't know if it was on NBC or if it was on Kay Adams' show.
20:44He talked about the last couple years there, right, Devin's
20:48retiring 22 or 23, or yeah, 22.
20:52He's like, a lot of the same groups here, and we were still a top-five defense.
20:56We didn't have that many good pieces. They actually have, arguably, some better
21:00pieces on this defense. There was no Christian Gonzalez since Stephon Gilmore left.
21:04It's not like there's a lot of bad pieces on this defense. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying
21:08Devin basically made the point of, well,
21:12Gerrard deserves another shot in some ways.
21:16Otherwise, this defense got so much worse, and the offense,
21:20while there's not a lot of talent for sure, still didn't
21:24I mean, no offense, Joe Milton looked just as good as anybody in the quarterback.
21:28The backup and all these different things. My point being, they won a game with Jacoby Brissett.
21:32They won a game with Joe Milton. They won a game with Drake May. It didn't really matter who was a quarterback.
21:36They kind of were the same team every week, which compliment maybe
21:40also maybe an insult. The Ben Johnson piece is really interesting.
21:44You've been on this for a while. Would I put it at 96%
21:48Mike Vrabel's, not the Jet Set Coach, unfortunately,
21:52the Patriots Head Coach? Yeah, I probably would.
21:56I'd be super excited if I was a Patriots fan at the idea of
22:00a lot of the same guys in the front office, a lot of the Patriot retreads
22:04potentially. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen.
22:08From all the reporting, Zach Rosenblatt's article in The Athletic detailed how
22:12Mike's open to, doesn't have to be McDaniels
22:16and a lot of these guys, which is great.
22:20I actually think he'd do well to expand his reach outside of
22:24some of the Tennessee guys and some of the Patriots guys. There's also
22:28a good shot that you could sit here and go, yeah, if they run out, it's Mike Vrabel,
22:32Shane Bowen, who's likely to get let out of his contract, and Josh McDaniels.
22:36How excited are you about the general staff?
22:40Vrabel's definitely an upgrade by a lot, but
22:44how much better is Josh McDaniels right now? I'm not saying he is or isn't.
22:48How much better is he right now than Alex Van Pelt, who had familiarity with Drake May?
22:52Those are the questions I may have. If they're not going
22:56to have a GM going into the offseason, how appealing
23:00is that job for Mike at the same time?
23:04I have questions about, if you're going to do this thing, do it right.
23:08Really interview GM candidates, really interview head coaching candidates.
23:12Ben Johnson with Drake May is really appealing. I don't even know that Ben's going to be a great
23:16head coach. There's little Adam Gase vibes there, which is one of his mentors
23:20and that's part of why he didn't want to interview with the Jets, amongst other reasons, obviously.
23:24I'd like to see them do a full
23:28real search and be like, hey Mike, we're going to probably hire you here,
23:32but let us just interview a couple of candidates.
23:36You go talk to a couple of teams. We're right here for you. We'll match maybe whatever offer
23:40or anything of that nature. Ben Johnson seems to be interested in this job.
23:44If I'm a Patriots fan, I'm like, hey, I've had a defensive coordinator as a head coach
23:48for 25 years, 25 years plus at this point.
23:52We finally have a quarterback that, post Brady, that we feel like
23:56could be a dude. Not like, could hold the fort down.
24:00Could be a guy. I'd at least consider it. I'd at least say,
24:04what's it going to take from a Ben Johnson perspective?
24:08I talk to a half dozen people around
24:12the league in front offices and every one of them is like,
24:16it's Rabel, it's Rabel, it's Rabel.
24:20That is the vibe out there. That's the vibe we've been sharing here.
24:24It was easier to make the move off of
24:28Gerard. Again, not that he deserved another year,
24:32but easier to make the move knowing that they had someone who was interested in their job
24:36last year, who they have familiarity with, which is a huge thing for them.
24:40Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is.
24:44We feel like we have this in our back pocket.
24:48I always go back to the Pittsburgh Steelers, who obviously have had the same three coaches
24:52in 60 years, or whatever it's been. 45 years. Chuck Knoll,
24:56Bill Cowher, and now Mike Tomlin. When Bill Cowher retired,
25:00the job was supposed to be Ken Wisenhuntz. He was the offensive coordinator.
25:04He had been groomed. They felt like he was a stealer. He understood
25:08the whole thing. They did the search. They did what you're supposed to do.
25:12Mike Tomlin came into the building and absolutely
25:16floored them. They looked at each other and said,
25:20that's the guy. It was like, wait,
25:24all along you thought it was going to be Wisenhuntz. If Ben Johnson comes
25:28in here, sits face-to-face with Robert and Jonathan, Elliot Wolfe and Alonzo
25:32Highsmith, apparently also going to be involved in the interviews, which again is a little odd,
25:36then you damn well better consider it.
25:40You have a preconceived notion. Yes, I understand why.
25:44I think he's a good culture builder, which as we just talked about, your culture is eroding.
25:48However, if Ben comes in and blows your doors off,
25:52maybe you've got to roll the dice on that. It just will be very interesting
25:56to see how that plays out.
26:00I assume Mike's going to be the coach. He's an awesome hire. I think he's the number one
26:04candidate on the market. That would be a great coup for the Patriots and all that stuff.
26:08No question about it. I also think he did have legit
26:12interest in the Jets job. I don't think it was a pure leverage thing. I think it got Robert's attention
26:16for sure. Do I think that there's a chance he would have taken the Jets
26:20job had the Patriots not been open? Absolutely. I saw
26:24some reporting. I'm not sure that's entirely accurate.
26:28I just think they should do this the right way. They have not done a full head
26:32coach search since the late 90s.
26:36Even then,
26:40there was a coup getting Bill anyways. It was a coup before that, trading Bill Parcells
26:44and Pete Carroll. At some point,
26:48it would probably be refreshing for the fan base to be like,
26:52let's talk to three or four people. Look, there's a good chance that we get Mike Frabel,
26:56Ben Johnson, and a few people to satisfy the Rooney rule. That's what it's going to be.
27:00That is what it is. I'm not going to sit there. It's not sour
27:04grapes. It's just an interesting process.
27:08I don't know. I think it would be an attractive job. It might be the number one
27:12job in the market. You should at least make sure you get the right
27:16guy. Like I said, coaching hires,
27:20it's not always the best coach. It's the coach at the right place at the right time.
27:24I don't know. Ben Johnson and Drake May would be pretty scary to any other team in the
27:28AFC. If he can really be as good of a play caller here, I think what he would do
27:32with Jared Goff. Drake May is 20 times the talent that Jared Goff is.
27:36Again, it's just something to lose their due diligence.
27:40Be smart about this thing and take all the information in.
27:44Obviously, we're talking about the playoffs coming this weekend. You want to go to a playoff
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28:40I wasn't going to talk to you about this, but very quickly, as we go on the coaching front.
28:44So Vrabel, Rivera,
28:48Rex Ryan. Now we see requested
28:52interviews with Brian Flores and Josh McCown. Other names mentioned. Joe Brady,
28:56Matt Nagy, Arthur Smith, Brian Greasy, Vance
29:00Joseph, Bobby Slowick. I would chuckle a little bit if that's where
29:04you ended on. What are your thoughts on that group of candidates as they've
29:08casted a pretty wide net? Yeah, for sure. Aaron Glenn
29:12as well. I think you'll see
29:16Liam Cohen and potentially Jesse Mentor get interview requests as well.
29:20Maybe some college guys. We'll see on that front.
29:24A lot of people have asked me about Sark this morning.
29:28I think that it would be a great fit, but for reasons
29:32off the field, obviously as everyone is very much aware of what happened at USC,
29:36I don't think Sark, New York's not the best place for somebody that's
29:40had the problems he's had. He's figured it out. He's been an incredibly college
29:44coach. I'd have serious questions if that was going to work.
29:48I think of the names you mentioned,
29:52Brian Flores. I talked about this on my other show. I think
29:56Josh McCown should have gotten an interview because he hasn't been in that building in
30:00six, seven years now. You
30:04basically interview him as a head coach, but can he be our offensive coordinator
30:08and go with Brian Flores? I think the Flores-McCown thing is probably
30:12next to Vrabel, the next set of like, that's really appealing
30:16and Aaron Glenn and potentially someone from that Lions staff. That is appealing
30:20obviously. After that,
30:24the list is, there's some names on there that are big stay-aways for me.
30:28Arthur Smith's a big stay-away, and I think there's no shot he's taking the Jets job. He's turned them down twice.
30:32The Jets turned him down once. He was the runner-up in
30:362021. He turned down the Jets this past offseason to
30:40come on as the offensive coordinator, but without the title
30:44for Nate Hackett. Bobby Slowick is the absolute biggest stay-away.
30:48Brady's interesting to me to see what he looks like in an interview because
30:52he was the hotshot name four or five years ago and
30:56kind of fell off a cliff a little bit. He's worked his way back up into that prestige
31:00of interviews now. He'll be an interesting one for sure.
31:04Division rival there. There's some other names on there that are interesting.
31:08The GM list has been shorter that they've requested, but they've requested
31:12some serious names. Mike Borgonzi is one that really stands
31:16out. Mike Greenberg are the two that the big names that have been thrown around. There's other ones
31:20there. Ray Farmer and some guys from the Eagles. You'll see a bunch
31:24of other ones requested, but those two stand out. Borgonzi,
31:28big-time connections with Mike Vrabel.
31:32You wonder, is that a Patriots spot? Is that
31:36a Jets spot? Is it, hey, the Patriots are wowed by Ben Johnson? Did the Jets all
31:40of a sudden pivot and say, Ryan Cowden's great, but he's
31:44probably 12th on the list of actual GMs you really want. He's more just you want Vrabel
31:48so you're going there. Does that happen? Mike Greenberg, does he bring a Liam
31:52Cohen with him and a couple guys in the Bucks front office? A lot
31:56of interesting names. The Jets have requested a ton of people. Ben Johnson was not one of them.
32:00He showed no interest in the job. They've known that for weeks. I'm not sure why it was
32:04reported that way. They had no interest in him because he had no interest in them
32:08and they weren't going to waste their time. You can't get turned down by the girl if you don't ask her out.
32:12The Jets have been all over this.
32:16As much as I'd like to give them the credit, you fired your coach almost
32:20three months ago. I would hope you'd have a list at this point.
32:24Absolutely fair. The pairing that you suggest,
32:28Flores-McCown, is an interesting one to me, but I think as we've talked about Flores-
32:32As long as it doesn't mean a Ryan Grigson-Flores-McCown.
32:36They just go back. He's quarterback retired at 29. What are we doing here?
32:40Just don't do it.
32:44He would have to have one hell of a plan
32:48and he would have to be pretty
32:52far from the guy that he was in Indianapolis for me to even consider it.
32:56There's some stuff on Vikings Reddit that claims that Questie doesn't actually do anything.
33:00Ryan Grigson's the brains behind the operation.
33:04I'd like whatever drugs you're taking.
33:08I like that. Elsewhere around the league, Doug Peterson.
33:12He was fired, which I think, look, we've expected this
33:16for- We figured it was going to happen in-season. I guess to
33:20Jag's credit, they were like, no, you're paying him.
33:24He can go the thing through. Trent Baalke, though, the GM states,
33:28which immediately raises an eyebrow because they've had problems
33:32before attracting candidates because of
33:36Trent Baalke's involvement. Interesting to me, Shad Khan
33:40talked a short time ago. Again, we're taping this on Monday. He called the team
33:44predictable. Too predictable. I'll just say this. Woody Johnson spoke for
33:4825 seconds yesterday and sounded-
33:52He was happy you won the game. He was happy you won the- He was happy they won
33:56and then Shad Khan goes on and said, well, this isn't an Aaron Rodgers situation.
34:00These guys got to stop talking. I'm serious
34:04because when they stay out of the way, look, we never hear from the Hunt family ever.
34:08They have their own problems, but we never hear from them. We hear from Andy Reid
34:12and Brett Feech and that's it. For the Bucs, we hear from
34:16their front office. We hear from their head coach. From the Patriots,
34:20just enough. I don't need to hear the owners talk because
34:24they always stick their foot in their mouth. You see why a lot of these guys hire poorly
34:28because guys like Trent Baalke can stay in jobs for six coaches
34:32and I went through the list. It's horrible.
34:36Jim Harbaugh, obviously when he was in San Francisco, that was the big one.
34:40Was he not a no-brainer at the time? Am I misremembering it?
34:44No, you're absolutely right. He was smoking red hot.
34:48After that, Jim Tomsula won and done. Chip Kelly
34:52won and done. Urban Meyer didn't even make it through a full season
34:56and Doug Peterson. He's been a debacle.
35:00It's not just that. He's had three or four top seven picks.
35:04He's had two number one overall picks in the last four years.
35:08Resulting in one fluky playoff win.
35:12I thought Ben Johnson was in luck for that job.
35:16Is that really that good of a job? Am I missing something?
35:20They don't have a ton of cap space.
35:24Soon as the too predictable thing, I thought to myself, alright, he's definitely
35:28on the offense again. Now I'm thinking it's Liam Cohen. Young,
35:32up and coming guy. You've been able to see it up close and personal.
35:36Just in the state of Florida. There's a lot of press that he's probably reading and picking up.
35:40I don't get it.
35:44Perfect opportunity to just start over.
35:48Clean it up. Who didn't clean it up?
35:52I am surprised. The Giants decide to stay
35:56with Joe Shane, the general manager, and Brian Dable. I thought one might get bounced.
36:00I was leaning Dable as the, give Joe
36:04a chance to pick the quarterback in the top five. We're going to reset
36:08the quarterback position. The owner, Mara,
36:12I thought he was excellent today. He was very honest. I'm trying to stay patient.
36:16My patience has basically run out. He's going to run these guys
36:20back. Joe Shane says he
36:24doesn't think they have to make the playoffs. They just have to show signs of improvement.
36:28Based on where they are this year, what is improvement? Four wins? Five
36:32wins? Based on the type of season they had.
36:36I thought they would have done something there. I think it's kind of foolhardy
36:40to run the same group back because you had
36:44the good first year and it has gone completely in the other direction.
36:48You don't have a quarterback. Your roster construction,
36:52I think it's pretty crappy.
36:56This is the worst John Mara quotes we've heard since he's been the owner.
37:00Just destroying the football guys, but then
37:04doesn't fire them. Says that I don't want to be this angry and disappointed next year.
37:08Mike Garofalo actually reported there is a playoff mandate.
37:12Then Joe Shane goes in and says there's not a playoff mandate. They don't
37:16regret quarterback. Joe Shane's not doing a good job in front of cameras.
37:20Brennan Bean is really good at the media thing.
37:24Anyone that's been in the combine. He's very good. He operates the floor well.
37:28This is
37:32again a perfect chance to start over. I understand they never got their
37:36quarterback, but they didn't have to re-sign Daniel Jones.
37:40The argument they never got their quarterback. Yes, they never drafted theirs, but
37:44they picked it because they had a year to evaluate.
37:48They liked him at 9-6-1 in a playoff win and said I can win with this guy.
37:52They gave him a hefty contract. They had their outs in it, but
37:56it makes no sense.
38:00Bad organizations are doing a lot of dumb things in the last 24 hours.
38:04On to that, the Colts sticking with both Chris Ballard, the general manager
38:08who's been there nine years. They haven't won a playoff game in five.
38:12I believe they just have the one playoff win. Shane Steichen who's 17-17
38:16in two years. You can make the case for Steichen to me. Last year looked good.
38:20This year, there's a lot of Anthony Richardson problems going on in that
38:24building. That's Chris Ballard's pick.
38:28Did they not vet this kid? Did they not ask the right questions? Did they really
38:32think that he could come in and by year two be
38:36an NFL passer? Because he's not an NFL passer yet.
38:40Ursa,
38:44I applaud the loyalty to a degree, but this is
38:48probably a place where you should have said, Shane stays. We're getting a new GM because
38:52look at my roster. It's just not nearly good enough.
38:56Again, we have not started over in such a long time.
39:00Let's just wipe the slate clean.
39:04I like Steichen a lot. He might be a better coordinator. We've run into this problem a lot.
39:08We talk about Raheem Morris a lot. There's a lot of Todd Bowles.
39:12Josh McDaniels. All these guys.
39:16I don't know. Some guys are just better as coordinators. I like Steichen a lot.
39:20I'm probably higher on him than I should be based on the results.
39:24He's a 500 coach. He's fine. Ballard's done some really nice things.
39:28I do feel like he's lived a lot off the
39:32Sam Darnold trading back to six with Quinton Nelson and Darius Leonard
39:36in that whole draft. He's had a lot of really nice guys.
39:40Hey, Michael Pittman in round two was a really nice and creative pick.
39:44We got this guy on day three. We got this guy on day three. Hey, Josh Downs in round
39:48three. Look at him. That's great. But also,
39:52you've not hit a quarterback and you've had
39:56100 chances of hitting a quarterback. The Wentz trade was horrendous.
40:00There's one GM opening right now.
40:04And I think the Colts would have gotten a better candidate than the Jets will for
40:08GM. This felt like the easy... Wow,
40:12we could get Ed Dodds right in your building. He's been a guy who everyone's been
40:16waiting to either take the Colts job and he doesn't really ever interview and
40:20you have questions maybe why you're not interviewing. But I don't know.
40:24I just feel like it was a perfect... Hey, promote Ed Dodds for a year.
40:28Run it with Steichen. If it doesn't work, we blow it all up after the year.
40:32You're just going to run it back. The one issue I have with Ballard
40:36is every year we talk about they have all these
40:40picks and they have all this cap space and they never do anything with it.
40:44At some point, that's great. You hoard assets and you hoard cap space.
40:48But if you don't spend it and no one will take your money, who cares? We saw with the Patriots
40:52this year. That's so great. You have all this cap space. But if Brandon Ayuk's like,
40:56I'd rather literally take $4 million a year or less to not go to you
41:00or we'll see this offseason who the Patriots target or the Colts
41:04and these teams. But at some point, man,
41:08the Colts are really going to run it back with Gus Bradley too.
41:12If I'm in the division, I'm begging them to run it back.
41:16Pretty please. Yeah, it's a great point.
41:20To the money thing, the Patriots have $131 million.
41:24$117 to $131 depending on what site you believe. That's the amount of cap space.
41:28Who are you going to get?
41:32Yeah, you got to spend it and you're going to have to overspend.
41:36To get someone like Tee Higgins, where I think there's going to be four to six teams at the very least,
41:40if he gets to the market, they're going to want to pay him number one money.
41:44You're probably going to have to pay him more than those guys are going to pay him.
41:48Are you willing to do that? They set the line with Calvin Ridley. You and I were texting.
41:52I told you, I would call Tennessee. If I strike out in free agency,
41:56I'd call Tennessee because essentially Ridley's got one more year on his deal of guaranteed money.
42:00Just say, I'll live with that for a year. He's still a good player, maybe not a great player.
42:04I'm baffled by that.
42:08I was convinced that Indianapolis was going to do something different.
42:12Finally, Miami, Mike McDaniel,
42:16General Manager Chris Greer stay. There have been some rumblings that maybe Greer would retire
42:20and move into an advisory role. They're staying.
42:24I'm fine with giving Mike McDaniel another year.
42:28Their roster is in this weird place. That's actually where I want to go.
42:32I'm going to just side profiles here. Tyreek Hill, I'm out, bro.
42:36Jalen Ramsey just requested basically a trade on Instagram too.
42:40They realized that their roster is in flux.
42:44Both guys signed Megan, highest paid player in the league extensions four months ago, by the way.
42:48Maybe they made a mistake with McDaniel.
42:52What's going on in that room and that culture?
42:56Tyreek was like, I had an injury. I'm out.
43:00McDaniel's like, nope, not a new injury. You just took yourself out of the game because you didn't want to play anymore.
43:04They have a culture.
43:08They came out and said, hey, each guy's going to do what he's going to do, but we want guys that are willing to
43:12fight and press forward. They don't because the weather goes
43:16under 50 degrees and they turn into a pumpkin every year.
43:20The Jets were a corpse the first drive of the game.
43:24I think they saw that the Dolphins wanted no part of being there yesterday.
43:28They were like, yeah, let's go have some fun. Rogers was good and whatever.
43:32They have a problem.
43:36Steven Ross is 84 years old. I'm really shocked he's been this patient.
43:40I think maybe he's scarred by being too aggressive,
43:44obviously, with chasing Sean Payton and Brady. We know the whole story.
43:48Obviously, not ethical in a lot of the ways he was doing stuff.
43:52Chris Greer has 27 NFL lives.
43:56He's, again, multiple coaches now,
44:00multiple quarterbacks.
44:04I felt like Miami was in a spot where, hey,
44:08if you're Miami, do you try to start over?
44:12Hey, we're going to get what we can out of Tua and Waddell. We'll trade Tyreek and Ramsey.
44:16We'll trade all these guys. Armstead will retire.
44:20We'll take our punches for a year
44:24and we'll stack draft capital for 2026 and hope we can start over.
44:28Is Chris Greer the guy you want to be the one taking all these guys?
44:32Do you want that draft class again?
44:36I think McDaniel is probably a coordinator.
44:40He's done some nice things, but the team resembles him.
44:44He's cold on the sideline a lot. He looks like he's
44:48in over his head more than he should for a guy that is very smart,
44:52very talented, very charismatic.
44:56Now he's coached a decent amount of NFL games.
45:00It's a bigger sample size. I felt like a lot of these teams made a mistake.
45:04I think there's good candidates on both sides of GM and head coach.
45:08These jobs would have been more appealing than some of the other ones.
45:12I don't know. I'm not particularly sure I get it.
45:16I thought there was going to be more movement today.
45:20Even the Bears requested McCarthy and that maybe puts Jerry in a spot
45:24where now it's, ooh, someone wants my guy. Let me extend him.
45:28It appears that Antonio Pierce survives
45:32and gets a second full season with the Raiders
45:36as he came to the podium today and was like, I haven't been told anything different.
45:40Another one before we go, the Titans sent Brian Callahan out there to talk.
45:44I think Brian Callahan's going to survive this, but he had not
45:48yet talked to the owner, which again, the timing of it
45:52is we're going to run you out here in the middle of the afternoon, so we've had time to do this.
45:56Is he back or did you just talk to everybody and then we're about to
46:00fire you in the next 24 hours? I mean, you're running
46:04into it there where Jeff Ulbricht is talking to the media about
46:08the team and going forward. It's like, I know he's going to interview for the job,
46:12but he's not getting it. He's not going to be there.
46:16If I was Jeff Ulbricht, I'd be like, peace out. I'm not doing this bull crap.
46:20Why is he answering questions of the state of the franchise? Right, exactly. But you don't have a GM and your owner did his 25 seconds.
46:24All right, that's going to put a wrap on this Monday's edition
46:28of the All-32 POD. We will be back at the end of the week to preview
46:32playoff weekend. I'm looking forward to it. We can kind of start
46:36our focus now in on a few games here. Good slate. I don't plan on
46:40moving too much on Saturday and Sunday. Me to the fridge.
46:44Beer, nachos, those sorts of things.
46:48A reminder to like, listen, subscribe, do all those things.
46:52Rate, review. You get this wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, you can
46:56see this on YouTube as well. He's Will Parkinson. I'm Mike Gerry. We'll see you at the end of the week.
47:06He's got the ball!