Should Celtics be worried about the Knicks? | Garden Report
Bobby Manning sits down with Senior NBA Insider Michael Scotto of the Hoops Hype podcast to discuss the Knicks offseason vs that of the Celtics. Have the Knicks improved enough to be a serious threat to the C's next year? And how will the Celtics manage their growing payroll going forward? That, and much more!
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00:00Pape by Manning here. Welcome to another summer league edition of the garden report
00:04We have Michael Scott out here from hoops height making his garden report debuts
00:09I mean to have you on for a while, man. How you doing?
00:11What's up, Bobby happy to make it finally happen took a little bit been a little bit of a busy offseason
00:15I'm sure we're gonna get into a lot but we're here in Vegas. It's pretty hot about 115 120 some days
00:21So happy to be sitting with you in the AC and talking some hoops best place to be
00:27Let's start with the Knicks right in your backyard there, obviously they made a big move with the Nets that doesn't happen
00:32But it did and they changed the dynamic in the east a little bit
00:36I don't know how you feel about how it impacts the Knicks because obviously they lost a big piece in Hartenstein going out to but
00:41When you had a guy like Mikhail bridges
00:43That's tough to decline and they went out and what gave up six picks
00:47Effectively with swaps and all that to do it and that gets the Nets moving
00:51That gets the Knicks in a really good place and obviously the assortment of their roster the way it's oriented around the wings now
00:58You have to think was done to contend with the Celtics and all their wings and all the guys have to go on the perimeter
01:04No question. I mean look Bobby. I think when you look at the Eastern Conference right now as of today
01:08I think first of all, you have to defer to the Boston Celtics is number one
01:13They're the reigning champions until they get knocked off
01:16They deserve to be the number one
01:19Projected seed going into the new year
01:21You know, you hope Chris taps was English and come back healthy in due time
01:25No, he's got to recover but for the Knicks a couple things one
01:30The league has valued clearly
01:33Three and D wings more than ever before and I think we saw that with the Mikhail bridges trade
01:39We saw that with OG and and OB nearly getting a max contract effectively and now being the highest paid player on the Knicks
01:47The moves were done to compete with Boston to go up against Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown
01:53Specifically. Okay. Now you touched on
01:57Isaiah Hartenstein and I think what it comes down to for the Knicks
02:04They look they were gonna get outbid. They can only pay four for 72. And so once that price range was
02:11Kind of made clear
02:13Teams that had cap space whether it was the Thunder whether it was the magic they wanted to get in there
02:19obviously Oklahoma City really made a strong offer even though it's kind of more front-loaded and
02:24You know for the first two years
02:26It's guaranteed and you get that team option which they can decline when they got to worry about Chet Holmgren
02:30Jalen Williams, etc
02:31All those guys that they're gonna have to pay up but for the Knicks and and in most teams around the league
02:37The thinking is unless you have a guy like Joel Embiid
02:40Jokic, you know, maybe a BAM out of bio for example
02:44You're mostly trying to spend less at the center position
02:48And and fill out the money more on the wing. Yeah point guard and whatnot. So that's what the Knicks did and now
02:55The Jalen Brunson extension. I think it's huge for them giving them flexibility. I mean that really
03:01Financially
03:02Was huge. I mean it was huge for the Knicks. There's there's no way getting around that
03:06You know, they talk about McHale bridges now potentially doing the same as well time will tell but if he does I mean
03:13I'll tell you what it paid to be in Villanova that year. I don't know if you know, Eric Pascal or
03:19You know, Jay, where's Archie Diakono? Everyone's waiting for him to come back. You know what?
03:23maybe he'll maybe he'll get a spot on the
03:26something but
03:27Yeah, I mean it's really been an interesting dynamic
03:30But to me the Boston Celtics and the New York Knicks are the teams to beat in the Eastern Conference
03:35I know Philly got Paul George
03:37and they had a busy offseason as well, but
03:40Right now I can't personally count on the health of Embiid, you know, Paul George and the playoffs is had an up-and-down track record
03:48It's not been consistent at all. And I think yeah, it's really coming down to the Knicks on paper
03:54At least the Knicks and the Celtics. Yeah, so you've seen a lot of bridges since he went to Brooklyn that first year
03:59He exploded second year, you know, he's kind of the
04:03Front man on the team and there's not a ton around him there into that second year
04:07So that was a little more uneven, but he's probably gonna be going back into that role
04:10You saw in Phoenix where he's more on the perimeter knocking down shots defending taking big assignments on the defensive end
04:17What do you think he's gonna look like there? How much higher of a level you think he's gonna bring the Knicks?
04:22I think for Mikael, I really think you hit it on the head. Look, he's gonna be a three indie guy
04:26I think his efficiency should go up. He's not gonna be the 25 point a game score
04:31He was the second half of the season after he got traded from the Suns to the Nets
04:36You saw for a full year consistently
04:39That you know him being the focal point
04:43It was tougher for him to score and you know, the crazy things people don't even realize is Cam Thomas led the Nets in scoring
04:50This year. Yeah, he led the Nets in scoring
04:52I don't think people realize that but to me that kind of speaks to you know
04:56How tough it is to be a number one guy I think for Mikael
04:59On the Knicks, you know, you got Julius Randle
05:02who's coming back he's gonna want to be the two and so I think Mikael and OG will
05:08Offset as the three four depending on the night
05:11And and we'll see what happens, but the lineup combinations are gonna be very interesting
05:15Do you play Jalen excuse me, do you play Jalen Brunson at the one do you play?
05:21Hart or Dee Vincenzo with the two
05:23Bridges at the three OG and I'll be at the four and maybe Julius Randle at the five
05:27You go a little small ball. Do they bring back Precious Achua?
05:31They they're gonna need a little bit more size and a little bit more
05:35You know beef in that front court. So we'll say yeah, and that's what they used to compete with Boston last year
05:40Especially I think they only played Boston once with OG they kind of destroyed them in that game
05:44Obviously he gets her into the playoffs and the team just completely crumbled health-wise
05:49After that point so we really haven't seen these two teams go head-to-head at full strength
05:54Since they made that big OG move there in New York, so I'd imagine that could be opening night
05:58I would hope that would be opening that'd be a heck of a game
06:01But it'd be you know what though KP probably right and he's out there
06:05Yeah, you have to take it with a little bit of grain of salt
06:09But yeah, it would certainly be intriguing regular season matchups. Yeah, and you remember the opener last year
06:14He came out there and just destroyed the Knicks in that game and they did well without him last year
06:19They brought everybody back in that front court
06:21So I guess we'll talk a little bit about the Celtics and what they did here
06:23I thought bringing back Tillman was huge. I did not expect that. I was surprised
06:27Yeah, I thought he would get a little bit more than what he got, but I clearly values a winning culture
06:32Yeah, he liked it there, but I agree with you Bobby. I really did. I thought he would get a little bit more
06:37Yeah, and he didn't play a ton after the Celtics got him at the deadline
06:40But obviously there'll be plenty of time there for him with Porzingis out and Horford's gonna have to hold things down
06:45Cornette was pretty good for them last year another former Nick there
06:49Do they have enough you feel like to sustain without Porzingis for you know, what could be up until Christmastime there?
06:55Or is this team, you know?
06:57Gonna have struggle a little bit with Porzingis being out completely because he missed a little bit of time last year
07:01but never this much I
07:03mean look, I think certainly
07:06The older Al Horford gets you have to be a little bit more concerned
07:10I know he this guy's found the fountain of youth. I don't know what he's drinking if it's wine if it's extra milk
07:16you know for his commercials, but
07:18To me that there was a little bit of concern there, but I think maybe
07:23Xavier Tillman saw that in free agency and said maybe I'm gonna have an opportunity with
07:29Chris steps for zing especially beyond Horford's career. Maybe if this is Horford's last year
07:34Yeah, and you know what you bring up a valid point
07:36We don't know that yet, but it's certainly plausible. And so I think they've got enough to get by
07:41I think people forget that you know, true holiday is an excellent rebounding guard
07:45They've got good positional size with Jalen Brown and Tatum
07:49They can hold down the fort. I think they've got enough overall
07:53To get by and and thrive honestly still given their roster construction
07:58They're still better on paper even without Porzingis than a lot of teams in the east
08:02Yeah, and they'd have to do too much this summer a lot of extensions Brad's just gone extension crazy since he became GM
08:08Yeah, the Tatum wins a slam dunk right the supermax you get that done
08:11I was a little surprised about Derek white. He comes in at 126
08:15You're seeing guys signed for like 212 in George's case and the OG and Anobi signed for over 200
08:21So in my mind, I thought he might go to free agency
08:24just see what's out there and maybe stay with Boston in the end for a little bit more than they could have extended for but
08:28They got that done pretty quickly and that was huge for Boston. I thought I'll tell you this Bobby
08:32This is the biggest thing. I think people maybe have a misconception about with free agency
08:37Essentially your own team has to want you and they kind of set the market
08:40I think unless it's an Isaiah Hartenstein situation where you have a big suitor
08:44Yeah, and Paul George was gonna get a max no matter what right except for the Clippers
08:48See, I guess I shouldn't say that even though but to anybody outside of the Clippers
08:53He was getting a max he was going anywhere
08:55So to me, I think when you're looking at those type of situations for Derek white, for example, you got to say to yourself. Well
09:03You know, can you go for a little bit more?
09:05Maybe but is the juice worth the squeeze and I think for Derek being in this situation
09:11He likes it essentially it's kind of comparable money to drew holiday. Anyway, so about the same I you know, I think that's I think that's fair
09:20If another team may be offered more than that, that's a lot of money. I click certain guys Bobby on a team like
09:27Derek white is an all-star in his role. Okay. Yeah, but is he an all-star guy? I don't know
09:34I know he's on team you can reach that level at times
09:37But yeah, but like consistently throughout a whole year I just think for him this was the best situation it worked out well for both sides
09:45And I just I wasn't totally surprised
09:48Maybe as much because I think people think of free agency. The grass is always greener on the other side
09:54Not always like that in today's NBA. I feel like
09:57You know the mid-level even is not being used as much
10:00It seems like it's very broken up star heavy at the top with the salaries and lower to your guys
10:06You know since they've broken up the aprons and whatnot teams are more spending conscious except for like Matt ish be a yeah
10:13But pretty much yeah, and the Celtics have in the future set themselves up for a big
10:19Luxury tax bill and all that with all the extensions here and all the guys that they've had to pay
10:23So they're gonna have that come up in about a year from now
10:26Yeah, I want to hit on that
10:28But have you heard anything about oh shit because I would say he's the only guy well
10:32Mahaluk is as well
10:33But there's only one roster spot and you would have to think after winning a championship the door would be open for him to come
10:37Back it is but he declined that player option and is looking around right now
10:41I guess I would say that there's a possibility. He does come back. It's not out of the question at all
10:47From what I've heard so I mean, you know still a little bit of time
10:50There's no rush given where the market is right now
10:53But there's definitely a possibility that O'Shea percent comes back to the Boston Celtics prize picks is
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14:09Guaranteed and how do you see them managing this big payroll into the future?
14:13Obviously Tatum and Brown can keep those guys around for a long time and try to build out different
14:18Integrations of this team around them and I'd have to imagine that's what they're trying to do here with the two super maxes
14:23But you sign that holiday extension that adds a little bit more of the books long-term
14:26White that adds just a little bit more and then you still have Porzingis here at 30 for two more years
14:31So you mentioned the Suns? Yeah, they were what 400 million this year
14:35The Celtics do a Hauser extension, which I know they have some interest in you're talking like 500 million in 2026 with them
14:42so maybe if you're a champion you eat that but
14:48Maybe that's why wick is thinking of selling right now at this point because he's worried about that that tax bill coming up
14:54but to me
14:56To me my thing is like if you're a real contender you got to pay it
15:01Yeah, I just don't
15:03The revenue you're gonna get from going to the playoffs winning the championship everything it should help offset those costs in theory
15:11I understand it's an exorbitant amount of money. You're talking about down the line, but
15:15As long as these guys are healthy, I think you continue to ride it out for as long as possible
15:20It's so hard to build up to this point make all the trades they did and fit the roster
15:25You know salary cap wise worrying about the first and second apron
15:29While you're below it you got to shoot you shot for as long as you can, you know, eventually maybe could they
15:36Move one of those guys
15:39Not Tatum not Brown. I really think it'd be hard for them to move drew
15:44You know, especially as these would be getting older. I still think he's a great player
15:49You know Derek conceivably
15:53There's plausibility there
15:56KP
15:58In theory, but again, I just I don't think there's an appetite for that ideally
16:03Yeah, and what we've seen this summer because I was interested to see how teams would handle that
16:08The teams that were in tough positions money wise just basically let their guys go. There's some minor dumps, but there weren't any major
16:15You know star level contracts moving just because teams need to get off that guy
16:19So looks like teams are just waiting and seeing on that front and then maybe in a year
16:23There's Minnesota move towns at that point is expensive, you know, that's why I'm interested to see in the coming ownership question as well, too
16:30Yeah, and what not? Yeah Phoenix stood the line
16:34So we haven't seen any major players move yet in my mind since the second apron when I think yet is the key word Bobby
16:41It's gonna happen. Eventually you would think down the line just you know, see one
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16:56You got WNBA going on right now MOB ton of stuff going on concerts and events
17:01You got the sphere here out in Vegas. Have you seen it yet? I've seen it from afar
17:05It's on my bucket to-do list, you know, my girlfriend was out if I have to trip we went out
17:09She wanted to see the Bellagio fountains. So we did that
17:13Took it a ghost bar. If you guys don't know it's in the palms and
17:17I'm like, oh, yeah, we're gonna see the view and everything. They closed the patio
17:20We still saw it but to go out there
17:23It's a nice treat if you can do that out here for sure. Yeah, some to Vegas
17:28Attractions from I'll have to wait you too. I would have done but I don't know about dead in company. That's that's uh,
17:35Before my time
17:37Word to Bill Walton on that one, but I mentioned Hauser
17:43He's extension eligible right now. He's an interesting extension candidate
17:47You know, you're gonna do your holidays and whites and Tatum's, of course, they're starting line up
17:52But they seem to have interest in extending house
17:54Oh sure
17:54and you mentioned like
17:55You want to keep your guys and just have them under contract and figure out what to do later
17:59It seems like they want to extend that all the way down the house or not to minimize his impact
18:03He played in the finals and played well. Yeah, so I understand that
18:07Ten million ish seems to be you know the number there. Maybe maybe that's what one side wants
18:11I'm sure the other side wants a little bit more right so could this happen and where do you think it would end up?
18:17Being money-wise in the end if a deal does get done. I
18:21Would say the Celtics would want to do something along the lines of Peyton Pritchard
18:25I don't think that's gonna end up being real sex. Yeah, how much was six six?
18:30I thought Pritchett was at eight million for a sec. So excuse me on that, but I would say
18:36How's there? I mean
18:39Definitely ten plus I would think but honestly if I'm a guy like him
18:43Anytime you try and do an extension with him
18:45You're gonna want a minimum if you're a roll guy
18:47More in the mid level right close to it. So you got to go a little bit more maybe closer to 13 or higher
18:52I think in an ideal world he hits 15 and I feel like he would sign that
18:57You know tomorrow if you could but we've got a ways to go. Yeah for sure
19:02And he'll remain extension out throughout the summer out there one more you
19:06Around the league when you look at you mentioned the Knicks, obviously, they're gonna be a big threat in the east
19:10I guess even extending it to the West who's a contender maybe a couple different contenders
19:16Do you feel like you're gonna have the best opportunity to?
19:19Knock Boston off that championship ledge because there's been a new champion what each of the last six years now
19:23So it's been tougher to repeat. I mean Bobby I think when you look in the West, I look at the young legs
19:28I look at the Oklahoma City Thunder game. They're in my mind to an Alex Caruso
19:33They've brought the core back and then I look at Minnesota having a chip on their shoulder. I
19:39Think
19:41Internally, they're gonna realize that they have got to do this sooner than later
19:45He touched on Carl Anthony Towns getting more expensive that luxury tax bill. What is ownership gonna do with that?
19:51I think the time is now for them that there's got to be a little bit of a sense of urgency there
19:57So to me, that's kind of what I'm looking at there those two teams
20:01But I think right now I would venture to say most people would say the Oklahoma City Thunder in the West
20:07Denver they've had some tough losses the last loss KCP Calvin Booth, you know is a firm believer that Christian Braun is gonna
20:15Replace his production. They got Peyton Watson as well
20:19but
20:21KCP was a really clutch three and D guy in the playoffs. It remains to be seen. It's an x-factor if Christian Braun
20:29You know Peyton Watson can can replicate that
20:32With a heavier workload in the playoffs, so I I like Denver obviously
20:39you know to have the best player in basketball, but I
20:44Think overall from a team perspective. I just think
20:48They'll come in with a chip on their shoulder. But again, Oklahoma City, Minnesota have the same chip on the shoulder. They're young
20:53They're hungry and I feel like just with the the way the NBA has been structured over the past
20:58I don't know five plus years. We've had different champions
21:01I think one of these young teams could emerge. I'll throw one more you Milwaukee. They didn't do a ton this summer
21:07I like the one right going there. I'm not a couple young draft pick. This is my thing with Milwaukee Bobby. I think
21:14That one you need a healthy Brooke Lopez
21:17You know, there was a little buzz about him moving this summer. I guess there just wasn't the right deal
21:21No, there wasn't and I think when you look at Milwaukee, you have to see like what trade assets you have and it's
21:28Lopez Bobby Portis Pat Connaughton future picks
21:32Or actually the it would have been the AJ Johnson pick right and the pick that ended up being Tyler Smith and and that didn't happen
21:39They're always aggressive trying to improve and win now, I think I
21:45Just I just feel like they're a little bit stagnant and I think Chris Middleton
21:51You know due to injury it's been tough for him to get back to that all-star level and it doesn't seem
21:57Like that's gonna happen. It seems more like he's got to be on a minutes restriction to
22:02maintain
22:04His health throughout the season
22:07Giannis
22:08Is still a great player and so is obviously Dame. I think Dame will have a better year this year than last year
22:15I'll be more acclimated
22:18You know, he had to deal with some personal stuff going through his divorce and they move with his kids
22:23So, you know, I think that had some role in it, but ultimately
22:28I
22:30Just feel like they're behind
22:33definitely the
22:34Celtics and the Knicks I
22:37Think their health is gonna be critical them in Philadelphia. I feel like are in that next tier but you know to win a championship I
22:44Don't think they're gonna end up being their health always crucial
22:48Appreciate Michael Scott over stopping by here at summer league. How long you here for? I've been here since Monday for Team USA. I'm flying out
22:56Today's Monday night on the opposite end of the spectrum. So it's been a fun ride. All right, check out his coverage
23:02It's amazing a lot of scoops throughout the summer
23:05Still some work to do this offseason a lot of free agents still out there
23:08So check out his work and the great team there hoops hype you guys have a bunch of guys doing great work there
23:14And follow along with us here for more Celtics coverage throughout
23:17Summer League Celtics Lakers tonight and Celtics Hornets coming up on Wednesday
23:22We'll post games for all those and see on its media here play reaction as well and check out our Celtics all-access
23:28YouTube page that's it for the garden report here. Thanks again to Michael Bobby Manning and we'll talk to you later tonight
23:35What's going on? Everyone is Joseph Pavone here
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