• 7 months ago
"Stef the following question is more about me providing you feedback to a question you asked in your response to my question about how an elephant man would find a virtuous wife. You asked why I was asking the question if I wasn’t an elephant man and such circumstances didn’t apply to me or anyone I know of personally. I think I can understand why you would ask me that question Stef when your philosophy generally deals with less abstract or hypothetical issues, indeed you have arguably taken on a role as a therapist to many people who ask you questions which I give you tremendous praise for addressing. Whilst elephant men are certainly extremely rare, my question wasn’t necessarily abstract, the elephant man was just the extreme end of the spectrum to illustrate a point. You can gradually dial the curtains back a bit and reveal many men who may not be elephant men but certainly are below average looking in looks and socio-economic status, you are aware I think Stef there is some sort of crisis going on whatever the cause, where young generations are having less relationships than ever. That said I think you largely answered my question Stef in that you said it is not a violation of UPB to date someone who is low value such as a prostitute if the prostitute is the best a man can get and sadly for the elephant man and even many other people who are not elephant men, a prostitute who is rejected by all the high value successful men may be the only option available to many of these men."

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Transcript
00:00 Good morning everybody. These are some great questions from the fine listeners at freedomain.locals.com.
00:06 Please, please, please come and support Philosophy. Freedomain.locals.com. You can sign up, get access to all the premium goodies.
00:13 All right. Some of these were questions asked after I asked for questions and some of these are posts, but all are fascinating.
00:20 First off, hello all. I'd like to get a discussion going regarding parallels, regarding that Parallels, the release of the Peaceful Parenting book.
00:29 I've been itching with anticipation for its completion since there was first talk of it years ago.
00:36 I am overly thrilled that it is finally here. I've been raving about it to all of my mama friends.
00:44 I appreciate that. Thank you, of course, by the way.
00:46 I am a donor and therefore have access to the book since Stefan started sharing it last October.
00:53 Yet, I started listening to it and stopped somewhere here around Chapter 4.
01:00 I wasn't angry or overwhelmed doing this. Sorry, I wasn't angry or overwhelmed with grief or otherwise emotionally incapacitated.
01:11 I stopped thinking it was so juicy, so good that I needed to take my time and savor it.
01:15 I didn't want to rush my consumption in greed, letting the information spill over last deeper than my memory.
01:21 This seemed reasonable in my mind. I wanted to slow down and absorb the book instead of letting it pass through me like an entertaining novel.
01:28 But I stopped, all caps, I stopped at Chapter 4, just stopped without realizing I'd done it until today, months after.
01:36 So when it dawned on me, I realized I have a history of doing this, going back decades.
01:41 I get very excited about a particular book, I elevate it to the highest value, begin reading it and inexplicably stop,
01:46 leaving it unfinished with every intention of finishing it later.
01:49 I've read dozens, maybe hundreds of inconsequential books cover to cover, but there are four that were "so important" that I never finished them.
01:57 I want to get to the bottom of this. Does anyone share this enigmatic habit?
02:01 Enigmatic habit, sorry. I'd appreciate any feedback you guys can provide.
02:05 Maybe somebody has already walked the path and has some insight, please and thank you.
02:09 So the reason why I think, I don't know obviously, but the reason why you stop reading books that are super important to you is that you have to go from theory to practice.
02:22 Now, if you don't have your own kids, or I guess even if you do, the theory to practice is talking about the ideas of peaceful parenting with people you know.
02:29 So you said that you shared the news about this book and some of the ideas with the mothers in your environment.
02:36 As you dig in deeper and further to the peaceful parenting book, and in particular the sections that deal with the hypocrisy of society regarding children,
02:46 then the size of the problem and the difficulty of solving it looms very large in your mind.
02:53 And when we come across ideas that threaten relationships, we shy away from them.
02:59 Ideas that threaten relationships, or threaten to expose the shallowness or lack of connection or commitment in relationships,
03:07 ideas that threaten relationships we experience as a kind of death threat.
03:12 I mean genetically, right? Because if we don't have any relationships, particularly with women, our genes end there, right?
03:17 So it's a kind of headshot, sharpshooter on our ovaries and testicles that prevent us from reproducing.
03:25 So when you come to other people with challenging ideas, particularly moral ideas, the most challenging of all,
03:33 then what you're doing is you are creating an empirical experiment to test whether they love you.
03:43 And if you think I'm kidding about this, let me make the case. I'm absolutely not kidding about this.
03:49 So if you come to somebody who says, "I love you," or "I care about you," or "You're important to me,"
03:55 and you come to them with a challenging idea, what is their response?
03:59 If their response is to roll their eyes, to attack you, to minimize, to listen blankly but give no response,
04:05 to listen even with attentiveness but then provide no feedback and change no behavior, then clearly they don't love you.
04:12 To love someone, of course, doesn't mean that you do everything that they say,
04:15 but to love someone is to say, "If this is important to you, it's important to me.
04:21 If it's important to you, then it is important to me." That's "I love you."
04:28 So when you bring an uncomfortable idea to someone, they have the choice to love and respect you
04:36 and listen to the idea and really understand how important it is to you and why you're bringing it to them.
04:42 If I'm really into stamp collecting, I don't necessarily inflict that on friends and family,
04:46 but if there's something that I consider very important with regards to morality,
04:50 and in particular with regards to child raising, then I'll bring it to friends and family,
04:55 and I'll say exactly why it's so important, and I will expect the respect of love
05:02 so that they'll listen and really dig in and understand why it's important to me.
05:05 We'll have important conversations about it.
05:08 And if their mothers, in particular, or fathers, if they love their children,
05:12 then the arguments in the Peaceful Parenting book are irrefutable.
05:15 I mean, honestly, that's why I worked so long and hard on the book.
05:19 This is the book I've worked on the longest and hardest outside of...
05:23 Well, I mean, certainly it's the nonfiction book I've worked on the longest and the hardest
05:27 because I needed to make the arguments absolutely irrefutable,
05:30 which is why there's theory, practice, and evidence.
05:33 The theory is the syllogisms, the practice is how to do it, and the evidence is
05:37 here's all the scientific facts about why you have to do it,
05:40 like you're harming your children by being violent towards them.
05:43 And the evidence is irrefutable all the way from ACEs to biological studies to brain scans to...
05:48 you name it, right?
05:50 So people say, "I love you," or people say, "I care about you,"
05:55 or they imply it based upon long-term friendships.
05:58 And the empirical evidence for that is not the words,
06:02 and it's not even hanging out and having fun.
06:05 The empirical evidence regarding that is all to do with,
06:09 do you have credibility with them, and do they care about your thoughts and ideas and arguments,
06:14 and are they willing to endure discomfort in the pursuit of truth?
06:18 So if you bring two mothers who claim to care about you,
06:21 let's say it's a sister, she loves you, or sister-in-law, whatever, they love you, care about you,
06:25 then when you bring peaceful parenting to them, there's a two-fold experiment going on.
06:31 Number one, do they love you? And number two, do they love their children?
06:34 If they love their children, then they should want what's best for their children,
06:37 no matter how uncomfortable for them.
06:39 We wouldn't have any respect.
06:41 In fact, we'd probably throw in jail a mother who decided not to get up at night
06:45 and breastfeed her newborn because she was kind of tired and it was kind of inconvenient
06:49 and she didn't want to bother.
06:51 That would be murderous neglect.
06:55 So even though it's uncomfortable for the mother, she kind of has to do it in order to keep her baby alive.
07:01 And if she doesn't want to do it, she needs to give the baby to somebody who will keep the baby alive.
07:05 So when you go to people with uncomfortable ideas, do they love you enough to listen?
07:10 If you go to them with uncomfortable ideas that expose the behavior that's absolutely necessary
07:17 in order to truly love your child, which is to not use violence or aggression against your helpless, dependent child,
07:23 then what you're doing is you're saying to people, and this is the implicit experiment,
07:29 "So if you love me, then that should mean something.
07:32 And if you love me and I say, 'This is really important.
07:37 This is essential for your virtue and happiness.
07:39 You should really dig into this and we should talk about it because I want to help you,'"
07:44 so if someone loves you, they should absolutely listen.
07:47 And again, it doesn't mean that they agree with anything automatically or everything,
07:50 but it should be a very robust and deep discussion.
07:54 I mean, this is another reason why people are shying away from the Peaceful Parenting book.
07:57 It's not just their relationship with their own childhood, but their relationship with everyone around them.
08:02 So if you read the Peaceful Parenting book as a parent and you can't rebut the arguments
08:06 and you can't rebut the evidence and you can't, well, then you have to be a peaceful parent
08:12 and you have to truly thank the person who brought you Peaceful Parenting
08:15 and you have to change your behavior with your children,
08:18 you have to apologize to them for any past aggressions or misdeeds that you've done,
08:22 and all of that kind of stuff, right?
08:24 So it's a test of, is the word love used as a resource-gathering piece of sentimentality?
08:31 You know, like the guy, "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow," that song, right?
08:35 The guy who says to the woman, "Oh, I love you," and then he has sex with her and then he ghosts her, right?
08:40 So he only said, "I love you," in order to have sex.
08:44 So do friends and family around, do they truly love you? Do they truly love their children?
08:50 I mean, if a child, I mean, this is sort of the Munchausen by proxy thing, right?
08:55 The mother makes the child sick or the father makes the child sick, it's usually the mother,
08:58 in order to get attention and so on, right?
09:01 And fill up the emptiness of their deranged heart.
09:05 And so if a child has an illness that's been lasting and then you come up with a cure,
09:12 the parent should be overjoyed.
09:13 If the parents kind of roll their eyes and reject the cure, even though the cure is proven,
09:17 then they're relieved, sorry, they're revealed as pretty malevolent people, right,
09:20 who want their child to be ill.
09:22 So I think everyone, this clear, right?
09:25 Everybody understands that the peaceful parenting thing is a test of whether people claim to care about you
09:30 because they genuinely care about you and want to know what you think,
09:33 even if it's uncomfortable to themselves.
09:35 Or do they just say that so you'll do what they want, so that they have a bunch of people
09:40 around the Thanksgiving Day table and never listen to anyone about anything to do with virtue.
09:46 So there is a rubber meets the road aspect to peaceful parenting that is a test,
09:51 not really of peaceful parenting, but of your relationships as a whole.
09:55 And I went through this process for many, many years where I studied philosophy,
10:01 I studied self-knowledge, I analyzed my dreams, I kept a journal,
10:05 I did all of this kind of stuff, right?
10:08 And I recommended to my friends when I went to therapy and found it incredibly helpful,
10:13 I recommended to my friends who had challenges in their life that they should go to therapy and so on.
10:18 And the number of people who listened to me was virtually zero.
10:23 It was virtually zero.
10:25 I mean, I had a friend, I repeatedly said he should get to therapy
10:28 because he was having trouble in his marriage, and then he ended up getting divorced,
10:34 and then he went to therapy.
10:36 So you won't listen to me, but you'll listen to divorce, right?
10:40 Okay, so that kind of faded out, right?
10:43 So I would imagine that the books that you have abandoned are the books that are going to challenge
10:47 the "I love you's" that are in the relationship, right?
10:52 "Do you find etymology interesting and/or useful when organizing your thoughts for philosophical,
10:56 literary, conversational, or trivial pursuits?"
10:58 I don't. I don't. Generally, I try to avoid lazy language.
11:03 Yeah, he's not tired, he's exhausted, right?
11:06 She's not curious, she's maybe rabidly curious or quizzical or something like that.
11:12 So I think it's better to go with more complex language as a whole.
11:16 It's also a good IQ test for people around, but I don't generally use it.
11:20 I used to do this thing with sort of around definitions, I mentioned this many years ago.
11:24 In idle moments, and Lord knows I had them when I was doing manual labor.
11:27 So for manual labor exercise, what I would do when I was doing manual labor is I'd say,
11:32 "Okay, there's a word 'envy' and there's a word 'jealousy'. So why are there two words?"
11:36 Right, there are words that are very close together, but why are there two words at all?
11:40 I mean, we don't really have two words for the category of 'tree'.
11:43 I mean, I guess you could go 'Latin' or some technical thing,
11:46 but why is there 'envy' and why is there 'jealousy'?
11:50 And so I would try and puzzle out why there would be two words,
11:53 and that was a, I guess, a way of playing with language to keep my brain active
11:56 when I was doing that sort of mindless physical labor.
11:59 But I don't find it useful in the categories you're mentioning.
12:02 "Hi, Steph. My two sons came home highly disturbed yesterday.
12:05 They go to the local park every day, which contains a pond and a river
12:09 in which they enjoy meeting with their friends, fishing and catching turtles and frogs
12:12 and playing sports, etc.
12:14 One of the kids within my son's friend group was using a live frog as a writing utensil,
12:18 using it to draw on a wall, as well as throwing it against the concrete, kicking it, etc.
12:23 He was horrified at the extreme level of abuse, and when he questioned this kid,
12:37 his response was, 'Who cares? It's just a frog.'
12:40 I suggested to him to stay away from him as he seems to be highly troubled.
12:43 But my son didn't know how to handle it, as this kid also falls within 'the group',
12:47 and staying away from him would also mean isolating himself from the rest of the kids.
12:51 Any suggestions as to how to handle the social dynamics of this situation?"
12:55 Well, I assume that if the kid is torturing animals, that's a sign of severe mental disturbance,
13:01 which I can't prove it, obviously I don't know.
13:04 But it is a sign of severe disturbance, and it is a sign, I would assume, or a marker,
13:11 a potential marker for extreme levels of child abuse.
13:15 So, if I were in your shoes, I would contact a lawyer, and I would say,
13:19 "What are my options, because I think this child is showing signs of severe child abuse,
13:24 and this kid needs some help."
13:28 I don't know how old your sons are, I assume that they're obviously pre-med teens,
13:33 because they're doing this, I mean, I love the nature stuff and all of that,
13:36 but the torture of animals is a sign of severe disturbance,
13:40 and I would assume that criminal behavior, I can't prove it, right?
13:45 I would go on the assumption that criminal behavior, criminal child abuse is occurring within the home,
13:50 and somebody needs to go and check on that family.
13:53 Like, you need a wellness check, you need something, right?
13:56 I would check with a lawyer, obviously, but you can usually make these reports anonymously,
14:02 and so on, and that needs to be dealt with.
14:07 It's a challenge, right?
14:08 Because, you know, if there's a wellness check after your son has questioned this boy,
14:15 I mean, this is the challenge, right?
14:16 So, after your son questioned this boy, and this is why, you know,
14:19 you really need to be cautious about this stuff, but after your son questioned this boy,
14:23 if there's a wellness check or something later on, it may not be impossible to trace it back to your son,
14:30 and therefore, to you, which is risky.
14:33 And that's an unfortunate situation, but again, I would talk to somebody who's an expert in the field
14:38 and figure out what you can do.
14:43 The real challenge is not just the boy who is vicious to the frog, right?
14:52 I mean, people treat animals, children treat animals the way they themselves have been treated, right?
15:01 Which is why you want to have animals around kids to see who's vicious, right?
15:06 I mean, my daughter is obviously very gentle and caring and firm with her animals.
15:11 She's had countless animals over the years.
15:13 I could go through the list, but it would go on and on.
15:16 And children treat animals the way they have been treated.
15:21 In other words, a child who's torturing an animal is most likely a child who's been tortured in some situation.
15:27 Maybe not at the home, it could be in some other religious institution or maybe at school or something,
15:32 but I would assume that kid is being tortured.
15:35 The problem, of course, is not just that your sons are exposed to this kind of cruelty,
15:42 but that it doesn't seem to be registering with the other children.
15:46 The other children aren't like, "Whoa, whoa, bro, what are you doing? What's going on?" and so on.
15:52 So, I don't have an answer, obviously, as to what should happen with your friend's social group.
16:01 I think the ideal would be that the kid gets a wellness check and they find out that there's something terrible happening in the home,
16:09 and this gets dealt with and maybe the kid gets some help,
16:13 in which case he's going to be out of the group for a while, I assume, while he's getting the help.
16:17 And hopefully that will resolve things with the friend group, but who knows, right?
16:24 I don't know how this plays out, but I'm sorry that you're in this situation.
16:28 It's tough, it's tough, but I mean, please don't.
16:31 In my view, again, consult with local experts and take their advice,
16:35 whether that's social workers, whether that's a helpline, whether that's a lawyer,
16:39 just consult with some local experts to figure out the best approach.
16:43 And you are in a possession of a difficult situation, but a situation that can truly save a child's soul.
16:49 And I wish you the very best. All right.
16:52 Steph, the following question is more about me providing you feedback to a question you asked in your response to my question
16:57 about how an elephant man would find a virtuous wife.
17:00 You asked why I was asking the question.
17:02 If I wasn't an elephant man and such circumstances didn't apply to me or anyone I know of personally.
17:07 I think I can understand why you would ask me that question, Steph,
17:10 when your philosophy generally deals with less abstract or hypothetical issues.
17:14 Okay. So, while elephant men are certainly extremely rare, my question wasn't necessarily abstract.
17:20 The elephant man was just the extreme end of the spectrum, to illustrate a point.
17:23 Yeah, I mean, the extreme ends of the spectrum.
17:27 So, elephant men, like, there's a reason why the elephant man, and I've actually played the doctor in a play many years ago.
17:34 There's a reason why the elephant man is such an anomaly, because a guy that messed up,
17:38 you know, like that movie, Mask, was it? With Cher?
17:43 It was some movie about some kid with severe facial deformities.
17:47 So, I don't, you know, there's an old saying, "Extreme cases make bad law."
17:54 Right? So, can you steal? No, you shouldn't steal.
17:57 But what if you're starving to death and you come across some bread on the street and it's not yours?
18:04 You know what I mean? Like, it's just, the extreme cases are so distorted and they're unreal for the vast majority of people.
18:13 Right? So, none of my listeners are elephant men. Right? That's just not a thing.
18:17 That's just not a thing. So, you know, if I say, "Well, you know, wealthy men have higher sexual market value in general,"
18:26 and you say, "Well, what about a guy with a facial deformity who's in prison as a serial killer, but he's got a lot of money?"
18:32 It's like, I mean, it's just, so, anyway.
18:35 Alright. You can gradually dial the curtains back a bit and reveal many men who may not be elephant men,
18:40 but they certainly are below average looking and looks in socioeconomic status.
18:45 So, below, okay, so, somebody who's below average in looks and somebody with giant bone protrusions and facial tumors all over their body.
18:55 I mean, come on, man. What's the matter with you? I mean, just shake it off, man. Shake it off.
19:01 Well, I'm talking about how do men who are below average in looks and socioeconomic status,
19:06 how do they get spouses and, instead of asking that question, which is interesting and more universal, you say,
19:14 "But, but, but elephant men." Come on, man. Come on. Alright.
19:20 Alright. Okay. So, that said, I think you largely answered my question, Stefan, that you said,
19:28 "It is not a violation of UPB to date someone who is low value, such as a prostitute, if the prostitute is the best a man can get."
19:34 And, sadly, and sadly for the elephant men and even many other people who are not elephant men, category error,
19:40 a prostitute who is rejected by all the high value successful men may be the only option available to many of these men.
19:46 Okay. Obviously, I never recommended dating a prostitute, right?
19:50 It is not a violation of UPB to date a prostitute because you're not initiating the use of force against her.
19:55 I would highly, highly not recommend dating a prostitute, highly not recommend dating a prostitute,
20:01 even if she's an ex-prostitute because there's just a huge amount of emotional and psychological damage done in that profession.
20:07 And, of course, dating leads to marriage, marriage leads to children, and having a prostitute as a mother is not ideal.
20:16 So, the elephant men and even many other people who are not elephant men, a prostitute,
20:23 may be the only option available to many of these men.
20:26 Okay. I mean, that's just not what I said.
20:28 I didn't say, "Well, you know, if you're not very attractive, go ahead and date a prostitute."
20:34 That's nothing I ever said.
20:35 So, you know, just a thing, just please, please, everyone, do me a solid.
20:38 The amount of misquoting of me that goes on, everybody knows, is ridiculously high, right?
20:42 I just misquoted, misinterpreted, and so on.
20:44 So, if you're going to make a claim that I said something or made an argument, I'm just telling you,
20:50 if you don't, this has been my policy for a long time, if you don't give me a show and a timestamp, right?
20:57 So, you listen to some argument and you're like, "Wow, that's really a wild argument.
21:00 I'm going to query Steph on this." Okay.
21:02 So, do the responsible thing, right?
21:04 You make a note, "Okay, it's show 52.43, and it's at 37 minutes and 15 seconds.
21:09 You say the following," right?
21:11 Now, if somebody's going to say, "Well, Steph, you made this argument or you said something,
21:15 and they don't provide me a quote," I mean, a quote is ideal, right?
21:19 You said here, and here's the source.
21:21 But if you don't provide me a timestamp, you've just misinterpreted me, right?
21:26 I mean, if it's something that I wouldn't say, and you're claiming that I said it, like,
21:29 "Oh, yeah, well, you know, if you're not particularly wealthy, go ahead, date a prostitute," that's not –
21:34 that's nothing I would say.
21:35 It's nothing – because that's not a free will thing, right?
21:37 And I'm a free will guy.
21:39 And that's not a good mother for your children thing, and I'm the peaceful parent guy.
21:43 So, I'm just telling you straight up.
21:44 I mean, if you don't care enough to quote me accurately, why on earth would I care about answering your question?
21:50 And I just assume that you're wrong, right?
21:51 So, I can certainly say, "Yeah, it's not a violation of UPP to date someone who's low value," right?
21:57 Now, here's the thing.
21:58 So, you're equating low value, which is like a guy who's short and homely.
22:03 So, these are unchosen things, right?
22:05 The guy's height is unchosen.
22:06 Your facial structure is unchosen.
22:08 I mean, your weight is chosen and so on.
22:10 So, you're blending together two things in the unattractiveness camp.
22:13 Number one is things you have no control over.
22:15 If you're an elephant man, you didn't choose that.
22:17 It's just the biological oddities and illnesses that you have.
22:21 So, you are jamming together things that are unchosen – elephant man – with things that are chosen.
22:30 Low socioeconomic status and being a prostitute.
22:35 Being a prostitute is a choice.
22:36 Now, again, unless you're kidnapped and forced into the sex trade and so on.
22:41 But then I would view you as a victim of sex trafficking.
22:43 I wouldn't put you in the category called prostitute.
22:46 So, somebody who's agoraphobic is not the same as somebody who's locked in a basement against his will, right?
22:53 So, this wild misquoting, massive category errors and so on.
22:58 If you're low socioeconomic status and you're listening to this show, you should be doing better because you're smart.
23:03 This show is for smart people.
23:05 This show is for very smart people, in fact.
23:08 I mean, one of the greatest predictors of censorship of leftism and so on is – one of the very biggest indicators is low verbal intelligence, low verbal IQ.
23:20 Can't handle language. Language is magic.
23:23 And hysteria based on ideas is what results.
23:28 So, you guys aren't that.
23:29 So, if you're broke, there's nothing wrong with being broke.
23:32 I mean, I had no income for a year and a half while I was working on novels.
23:36 There's nothing wrong with being broke.
23:38 But it's not the same as being short.
23:41 My God.
23:43 You can make choices, right?
23:45 I mean, you guys who listen to this have a lot of choices.
23:47 And if you want to make money, you can because you're smart enough.
23:49 Doesn't mean you have to, but you can.
23:51 So, let's see here.
23:53 Elephant men specifically may be extremely rare, but sadly, amputees aren't as rare.
23:58 I have on very rare occasions seen a person with no legs being pushed around in a wheelchair.
24:01 And I thought, if I was an amputee, how would I get a girlfriend?
24:05 I was in whatever place six years ago, and there was a completely legless guy who looked homeless,
24:10 crawling around on his hands just outside of whatever every day.
24:14 Why was he doing that in a country with a welfare state?
24:16 Was he just trying to get attention?
24:17 Was he trying to ask women out and get a girlfriend?
24:19 I'm sure I would still ask attractive women out if I was legless,
24:22 because having kids and having a wife is what gives the most value to a man's life.
24:25 But if I was legless, if I was a legless double amputee,
24:28 it would be deceptive of me to assume having no legs is not a problem for the women I ask out.
24:33 My God, man, this just goes on and on.
24:35 What the hell's the matter with you?
24:37 Sorry, like, are you a legless amputee?
24:39 Are you an elephant man?
24:41 Like, why are you giving me page after page after page of, well,
24:49 elephant men and legless amputees crawling around in public places?
24:55 Okay, so I don't, how on earth do I know why this guy, right,
24:59 I mean, he's in a country with a strong welfare state, so he could get welfare,
25:03 he could get prosthetic limbs, he could do just about anything, right?
25:07 So why is he crawling around in a public place?
25:12 I don't know, maybe he lost his legs in war and he got addicted to painkillers,
25:18 and, you know, he's just become a tragic addict and a victim of the military-industrial complex.
25:22 Like, why this sort of, I don't understand this intense pathological altruism
25:29 where you're filling up my questions with page after page of, well, what about a guy
25:34 who's lost both of his legs?
25:37 And what about a guy who's short?
25:40 What about a guy who's below average in attractiveness?
25:43 And what about a guy who's poor?
25:44 And what about a guy who's an elephant man?
25:46 And it's like, so you've got some, this is not about the thing, right?
25:50 This level of obsession with people, they're not you, they're not your friends,
25:54 they're not your family, they're not people you love and care about,
25:57 and you're like, so you see this guy, and, you know, it's a sad story, of course,
26:01 guy crawling around a public place with no legs.
26:04 Yeah, that's pretty sad.
26:06 What's his life like? Why is he there?
26:07 I mean, we've all been there, right?
26:09 I mean, we've all been there, right?
26:10 I mean, we go to some public place, we go to some public pond or lake or something like that,
26:14 and there's, you know, pretty tragic people sleeping on the park benches and so on.
26:17 It's like, well, how are they going to get girlfriends?
26:19 And my question is, why do you care?
26:21 Why do you care?
26:23 This is like pathologically female, where you've got to nurture and take care of the entire planet.
26:29 So, if you want to do a call-in show, I think that would be fine, but I really can't.
26:35 Gosh, question, question, question, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
26:38 This is the reason I asked you the question, Steph, because in your perspective, Steph,
26:41 as a guy who was good-looking, oh, I like that, was good-looking,
26:44 see, this is wild, right?
26:46 First of all, for a 57, I'm still good-looking, just so you know.
26:49 But from a perspective, Steph, as a guy who was good-looking and successful,
26:53 it was easy to stick to principles when choosing a spouse.
26:56 What are you talking about?
26:58 Are you saying only good-looking people can be moral?
27:02 This is a wild, wild set of questions.
27:05 It's just wild.
27:06 I also like how you put my good looks and success in the past tense,
27:09 and don't even notice it, right?
27:11 Don't even notice it, right?
27:12 So I would say that your sort of lack of empathy and politeness and consideration
27:16 and thoughtfulness is probably much more unattractive than anything else.
27:19 All right.
27:20 And, of course, I dated badly, as I've talked about, in my teens and my 20s.
27:25 It's not terribly, like it wasn't terrible relationships,
27:28 but it wasn't, compared to what I've had for the last 21 years, it was night and day, right?
27:32 So I was bald by the time I found my wife, and I was in my 30s, right?
27:38 So I was, I mean, you could say, of course, I'm less attractive in my 30s than I was in my teens, right?
27:44 Absolutely. No question.
27:46 And it's funny, I think, because I've lost some weight and I've exercised more,
27:50 so it could be argued that if you look at me sort of at the beginning of the show,
27:54 now it's a little pudgier and so on, and now, I could say more attractive now, but whatever, right?
27:59 Okay. So let's see here.
28:01 You have agreed with me that not everyone is in a position to follow principles.
28:05 Not everyone, you have agreed with me that not everyone is in a position to follow principles.
28:11 So there's a certain desperation in this series of questions, which I find interesting,
28:16 and call in at freedomain.com, call in at freedomain.com, C-A-L-L-I-N, call in at freedomain.com.
28:22 I mean, let's talk about this, because this is just wild stuff.
28:25 Not everyone is in a position to follow principles.
28:27 Well, of course, not everyone is in a position to follow principles.
28:30 A guy 30 seconds from dying is not really in a position to follow principles.
28:34 A guy unjustly locked up in a gulag is not in a position to follow principles.
28:38 I get that. I get that.
28:41 So anyway, but to say a guy unjustly locked in a gulag can't follow principles,
28:48 and neither can a guy slightly below average in height and looks, it's like, come on, man.
28:55 That's ridiculous. One has free will, the other doesn't, right?
28:59 Being short and slightly unattractive or less attractive than the average,
29:04 being shorter than the average, less attractive, that doesn't eliminate your free will.
29:07 Being unjustly locked in a gulag does eliminate your free will, at least in major sections.
29:12 The reason I ask the question is because you said to follow principles in response to someone who said
29:17 they had kids with a heroin drug addict.
29:19 If the person had said that a heroin drug addict is the best they could get,
29:22 would you still say that the person should have followed principles?
29:26 What do you mean the best you can get?
29:29 How do you know the best person you can get?
29:32 How could you possibly know the best person you can get?
29:35 Because the best way to get a better person is to improve yourself, right?
29:40 So I don't know that it's a huge accident or coincidence that I got the love of my life
29:45 after I went through two years of grueling therapy and self-work.
29:51 I did therapy three hours a week. I did 10 to 12 hours of journaling.
29:54 It was like more than a part-time job.
29:57 So who was the best I could get?
30:01 Well, I didn't make the choice to go to therapy, which is on me.
30:05 I made the choice to not go to therapy, which was on me,
30:07 even though I had great respect for psychology and psychologists.
30:10 So how do you know who the best person is that you can get?
30:15 Now, some moral laws are absolute, but some principles are relative
30:19 and thus apply differently depending on the vantage point and leverage of the conscious agent.
30:23 So now I think you know the reason I asked the question, even if it is not my vantage point.
30:27 It is to test the philosophical waters of edge cases, and I do think edge cases are important,
30:32 no matter how extreme or unlikely they are, in order to determine the strength of a moral axiom.
30:37 Now, I think you mostly answered my original question.
30:39 If you have anything to add now that you know the reason why I asked, then feel free to do so.
30:44 So, no, this is just avoidance. Edge cases are avoidance.
30:49 So you have people in your life who believe immoral things, right?
30:55 I guarantee you, like, you have people in your life who believe immoral things,
31:00 whether it's to do with politics, whether it's to do with parenting,
31:05 whether it's to do with morality as a whole, whether it's to do with free will, and so on.
31:10 So you have people in your life who believe very false things with regards to morality
31:15 and thus are enabling terrible evils in the world. You have that. You have that in your life.
31:22 So talk to them about morality, right?
31:26 But the reason you keep circling back to say, "Well, what about this edge case?
31:29 And what about this edge case?" and you mix all of these ridiculous antithetical categories together
31:34 and you come up with all of these endless pages, you're frightened of being moral
31:39 in a practical way in your personal life. Maybe your professional life, too.
31:44 I don't know, although you're paid not to be moral, but to be productive in your professional environment,
31:48 so there's less of an imperative, right? So that's all.
31:52 I mean, all of this noise and nonsense and this and that and elephant men and legless guys,
31:56 and like, there's nothing. So you say, "I'll be moral when I'm certain," right?
32:03 Because, you know, I mean, you admire me and I'm moral in the world and with people and so on, right?
32:07 And I get it. It can be scary at times, so I sympathize with that.
32:11 But you're like, "Well, I can't be moral until I'm certain," and then you just keep coming up
32:15 with more and more and more test cases to avoid certainty and thus the responsibility for action.
32:20 You understand that, right? "Oh, well, but what about this case? What about that?"
32:24 And if I answer these cases, you'll come up with more, right?
32:27 So I answered your questions before and you've come up with more test cases, more edge cases,
32:31 more extreme cases, more emergency ethics, whatever, right?
32:34 "Oh, but the legless guy," right? "It's the same as the slightly short guy," or the guy who's broke.
32:41 So you have an anxiety about being moral, and so you say, "Well, I can't be moral until I'm absolutely certain,"
32:51 and then you come up with edge cases and mixed categories and baffle gab and come up with endless pages of nonsense.
32:56 I mean, the questions aren't the end of the world, but it's nonsense because you're just not being honest.
33:01 You're not saying, "I'm frightened to be moral," because that's the fact, right?
33:04 You're frightened to be moral in the world, which I understand, but you don't want to admit that to yourself
33:09 because you wish to retain the illusion that you want to be certain and you want to be responsible
33:16 and you want to be absolutely right before you go about being moral in the world,
33:20 but you're not being responsible, you're just being scared.
33:22 I mean, so if there's some child who's being mistreated in your environment, and I'm certain that there is,
33:28 right, among friends, family, extended family, there's some child who's being mistreated,
33:33 and what you're doing is you're saying to that kid, "Well, you know, sorry kid, I can't do anything to help you
33:38 because six years ago I saw a legless man."
33:41 Come on, man.
33:43 "Sorry kid, I can't do anything to help you because elephant man."
33:48 I mean, understand, it's ridiculous, and again, I sympathize with the fear of being moral in the world,
33:54 I understand that, but just be honest. Just be honest with yourself and say,
33:59 "I'm scared to help whoever's being harmed in my environment or whoever is being misled in my environment."
34:06 I mean, post-COVID, post all of this stuff, we've got some moral conversations to have with people around us
34:14 because everyone who's ended up hating you because the TV told them to do that,
34:20 that's not really the end of the story because there still is a television set.
34:24 So we all have important discussions to be had with people around us,
34:29 just every time, but in particular post-COVID, right?
34:32 And you know people who have really false dangerous beliefs, you know kids who are being mistreated,
34:38 and all you're doing is you're obsessively typing to me more and more edge cases and never being satisfied
34:44 because you don't want to act.
34:45 And listen, I think it's sad, I understand, I sympathize very much.
34:51 So you're too scared to act or your fears overcome you, and rather than, but just be honest with yourself,
34:57 say, "I'm too scared to act right now. It's too alarming to me, there are too many people around me
35:02 who are too volatile, who will get angry or upset or maybe cut me off if I start talking about truth, reality, virtue, and ethics."
35:10 So you're too scared to act. Just be honest with yourself, that's all.
35:15 You don't need typing me all of this nonsense about elephant men and guys with no legs six years ago
35:22 and think that this has anything to do with what's really going on for you morally in the world.
35:26 Just be honest with yourself and say, "I could do some good with the people around me, but I'm too scared to."
35:32 Okay, and I sympathize with that. I'm not even saying you have to overcome that,
35:35 but you just got to be honest and stop wasting other people's time.
35:38 All right. "Hi Steph, I recall you talking in the past about people getting emotionally stuck in a certain age.
35:43 I'm currently 28, but for most of my life have felt like a 12-year-old boy.
35:47 I had an unpublished conversation with you nine months ago and almost immediately moved out of my parents' house
35:52 and have since bought my own car and gained a lot of relationship/sexual experience where I previously had none."
35:58 None! Thank you, by the way, you helped me realize I needed to start panicking and actually do doing something.
36:04 "Point being is that I feel as though I've mentally aged a good bit and now feel like a rebellious teenager,
36:08 although still not enough of a true rebel to confront my parents, though we don't speak."
36:13 Well, just so you know, I mean, this is a free will thing. You don't have to confront your parents.
36:18 You don't have to confront your parents. I mean, philosophy has a couple of don'ts, right?
36:23 Like, "Thou shalt not violate UPP," "No rape, theft, assault, murder," I get all of that.
36:28 But as far as the positives, no, you don't have to confront your parents, certainly if it's dangerous, right?
36:35 "I still have not started therapy or journaling. I've realized this sounds more like a question I should be able to ask my father.
36:41 Ten years ago, I guess my question is, is this normal and what you're referring to with mental age?
36:47 What should be the next steps to keep aging? I guess journaling and therapy. See, you don't need to ask, right?"
36:52 All right. "This also got me thinking about rites of passage, which used to be commonplace in society, but now are totally absent or delayed.
36:58 I normally don't ask questions, but this has been on my mind lately. Hopefully something interesting you can extract.
37:02 Saying that makes me think my feelings are false in some way, and I still feel like that scared 12-year-old.
37:06 My parents never changed how they talked to me from that age on. Essentially, never talked about sex, never talked about anything of substance ever.
37:14 That comment about the rites of passage looks so out of place. I wonder why I said that."
37:18 I appreciate the live view on your thinking patterns. That's always very interesting to me, and I appreciate the frankness and honesty of all of that.
37:28 I think you're onto it, which is that we tend to stop growing. It's not that you got stuck at 12. Primarily, it's that your parents got stuck at 12.
37:39 In other words, they didn't know how to parent you past the age of 12, and so you stayed at the mental age of 12 to not expose their deficiencies.
37:47 Because we need to pair bond. With our parents, we need to have our parents' good approval to survive.
37:53 Evolutionarily speaking, we're in small communities, a village maybe, a couple of farms around.
38:00 If our parents spoke very badly of us, even after we had grown up, we would be unlikely to marry.
38:07 Because the women would say, "Oh yeah, he's really bad. His parents don't even like him, and you wouldn't marry."
38:12 Plus, if a woman has a choice between a guy with an extended family and a guy without an extended family, all other things being equal,
38:19 she probably will prefer the extended family because they give her more help in child raising.
38:23 She has more people to help her out and all of that. Again, all other things being equal, which is rarely the case, but just from a theoretical standpoint.
38:31 So, your parents, I assume, have areas in which they are deficient in their parenting and their self-knowledge and their growth.
38:41 And so what happens is, they can't handle you getting older, so in order to continue to please them, well, you just don't get older.
38:51 You just don't grow up mentally, because to grow up mentally would be to demand of them things that they can't provide,
38:57 which would provoke anxiety and probably hostility in them. So, you stayed young to appease your parents,
39:01 who themselves have stayed young to appease their parents, so it's great to see you breaking the cycle.
39:06 Alright, I'm going to be moving. I'm someone I'm going to be moving in two months and wondering when I should tell my boss.
39:11 To say I ended around here is two weeks, but that feels a bit short, so I was thinking a month, since it's been a pleasant experience.
39:16 I think the longer the better. As a manager myself, if I know somebody's going to be quitting, the sooner I find out, the better.
39:23 Because the sooner then I can hire someone and use your time to train that new person. That's one thing.
39:28 The second thing is, I'm obviously assuming that this is not a job you can do remotely, because if you say you're some computer guy,
39:35 and maybe you can do your job remotely, well, maybe you could work something out with your boss to continue.
39:40 But yeah, the sooner the better, because then the knowledge transfer can occur.
39:45 That would be my particular thought. And you would say to the guy, "Listen, I know, let's say it's six weeks now.
39:50 I know six weeks is a long time, but I really did want to give you the chance to hire someone.
39:54 I can transfer my knowledge to them to make it as easy a transition as possible," and so on.
39:59 And say, "I'm open to continue working if there's any way I can do it remotely, if that's possible."
40:04 "Hi, Steph. Did you ever have a moment playing with and raising your daughter, where you almost broke down into tears
40:10 after seeing the stark difference between your relationship with your daughter versus your relationship with your parents?
40:14 How did you deal with those emotions?"
40:16 It's a fine question, and I appreciate the delicacy and sensitivity of the question.
40:20 I did not... I don't think I ever got particularly emotional thinking about my relationship with my parents.
40:29 I know this may sound odd, but I'll tell you what my actual experience was.
40:33 My actual experience was not that I was sad about how bad my relationship with my parents were.
40:41 What I felt emotional about was how much my parents missed out on fun and love and connection and good humor
40:50 and positivity and engagement and enjoyment because of how they were as parents.
40:56 I've had an absolute blast raising my daughter.
40:58 It has been my wife, philosophy, and my daughter.
41:02 These are the central joys of my life, or the life of the mind and the life of the heart.
41:07 You can't do better than that. You can't do better than great love and a great moral purpose in life.
41:14 There's nothing better. That's it.
41:18 I have thought in the past, and it has struck me emotionally, just how much my parents gave up on happiness
41:31 by parenting the way that they did, or rather not really parenting, but just cuddling and bludgeoning
41:36 and criticizing and nagging and going crazy.
41:39 When I'm having fun with my daughter, which is just about every time I'm with my daughter,
41:44 when I'm having fun with my daughter, I think how sad it was that my parents didn't have fun with me.
41:49 I'm a fun person. It certainly would have been the case that that would have happened.
41:54 It's very, very sad when I think back about how much my parents missed out.
42:01 I can't think about how I missed out on things with my parents, because I didn't choose my parents.
42:06 I didn't choose how they behaved towards me. I didn't have that choice.
42:10 I can't sit there and say, "Well, I missed out on so much with my parents."
42:15 If you're locked in a gulag and you have to eat a bowl of porridge a day, like Ivan Denisovich style,
42:22 you don't sit there and say, "Oh, I missed out on so much great eating," because you eat what you're given.
42:29 You don't daydream about all of the great buffets and food that you could have had,
42:33 because it just wasn't available. You were unjustly locked up in a gulag, and you were half-starved, and so on.
42:40 But you don't sit there and say, "Gee, I could have had so much better meals."
42:44 You might say that, but you wouldn't blame yourself for not getting the better meals.
42:48 It's an interesting thing, and I'm glad that you brought it up, because it gave me a chance to think about this.
42:54 I don't think I've said to myself when I'm having fun with my daughter,
42:59 "I don't think I've ever said, 'I missed out on so much fun with my parents,'"
43:03 because there was no fun really to be had with my parents, at all.
43:07 At all. They were not fun at all.
43:11 So I don't feel, "Oh gosh, I missed out on so much fun with my parents,"
43:14 because for me to have that imagination or to have that vision,
43:20 I would have to have had entirely different parents. Do you know what I mean?
43:26 And I didn't. I just had the bad luck to get the parents I got.
43:31 It's not even luck. It's just inevitability.
43:33 The dominoes of genetics, and law, and society gave me the parents that I got.
43:38 So I don't think back on all the things I missed out on with my parents,
43:43 because I couldn't have got those things from my parents.
43:49 I do think if my parents had choices, I didn't. As a kid, I didn't have choices.
43:53 I just had to try and find a way to survive in the environment that I was in.
43:59 I certainly didn't have choices. I had no options. I couldn't go anywhere.
44:02 I couldn't choose anything. I just had to make do.
44:08 I'm really glad you asked this question. Thank you, because it gave me a chance to mull this over.
44:12 But yeah, I never thought, "Gee, look how much I missed out on with my own parents,"
44:16 because that was not a possible thing.
44:19 They would have to be entirely different people, or to have made entirely different choices,
44:25 which was not something that happened, and I've never seen it since.
44:30 But I do think about, with sorrow, about how much my parents missed out on by not being better people.
44:39 I mean, really, the great tragedy of immorality, and my parents were very immoral,
44:44 according to any objective ethical standard.
44:49 Immoral people, I don't think about how much I missed out on great things with immoral people.
44:55 I don't think about that. I mean, to take an extreme example,
45:01 I know I just criticize extreme examples, but this just drives the point home.
45:05 You don't think, "Gee, that guy I didn't go on a date with turned out to be a serial killer,
45:10 but it could have been a great date." You're like, "Whew, glad to be out of that situation."
45:15 So, I don't think about, like with regards to immoral people as a whole,
45:20 I don't think about all the great times I missed out on with immoral people.
45:23 I do think about all the great times that immoral people missed out on by being immoral,
45:27 because they have the choice, particularly with childhood. I don't.
45:31 "Hi, Steph. I realize I've always been very passive in my life and expected to be taught,
45:35 to be shown, to be taken care of, or simply to be told what to do all the time.
45:39 This attitude did not get me very far in adulthood, especially when I entered the job market.
45:43 I'm worried that I have not transformed into an adult man inside.
45:46 Could you please elaborate more on how becoming an adult implies changing from receiving value to giving value?
45:51 No, exchanging value. Could you share any tips on how I can transform into a competent man and own my life?
45:56 Last but not least, how can I teach my own children to be proactive and valuable to others?"
46:00 Yeah, so with parenthood, you go from receiving value to giving value, right?
46:04 Your parents give you value, then you give your kids value, but in adulthood,
46:07 like adult to adult, it's an exchange of value.
46:09 It's why I'm constantly encouraging people to donate.
46:11 I obviously have bills to pay, but also it's the mature and wise thing to do.
46:16 It's the decent thing to do. It's the good thing to do. It's the adult thing to do.
46:19 It's the mature thing to do, to exchange value for value.
46:22 But when you exchange value for value, so the people who exploit you don't want you to learn
46:28 exchanging value for value, right?
46:30 So people who exploit you don't want you to learn reciprocity.
46:34 And so people who've had bad childhoods and exploited parents or teachers or preachers or whoever, right?
46:40 They resist donating, say, to me because when you say, "Well, it's important to exchange value for value,"
46:47 the people who are exploiting you, in other words, they're taking value from you without providing value
46:50 or maybe even trauma in return, they're providing trauma, not value, or at least it's neutral.
46:55 They don't want you to learn reciprocity.
46:57 So it is the exchange of value that is the mark of adulthood.
47:03 And so you just have to look at your relationships and say, "Do I provide value?
47:07 Does the other person provide value?"
47:10 And where one person is providing value and the other person isn't, it's exploitive.
47:15 So you need to look at your relationships and figure out, "Are they exploiting me or am I exploiting them?"
47:20 If it's an exchange of value for value, great.
47:23 So if you have a friend who asks you for favors and you do favors and then you ask for favors back
47:27 and they don't do favors, that's exploitive relationship, right?
47:30 That's an exploitive relationship.
47:32 Like someone I knew, I helped them make a movie and then I asked them to review my book
47:36 and I got nothing back.
47:38 So I put a lot of time, effort, energy, and money into helping them make a movie
47:41 and then when I asked for reciprocity, it didn't come back.
47:44 So that was, sadly, an exploitive relationship in that sense.
47:48 So I had to move on.
47:50 All right, let's see here.
47:53 I think, yeah, you know what, let's go to the end.
47:56 "What's a good way to identify the underlying reason for an addiction to easy dopamine
47:59 when one's life seems to be going well and there's no apparent reason for a void needing to be filled?"
48:04 Well, it's greedy, right?
48:07 So you can get your dopamine from addiction or you can get your dopamine from virtue, right?
48:12 From achievement, from doing good in the world, right?
48:15 Now, if you decide to get your dopamine from addiction, then there is something missing in your life
48:23 which is a respect for your future, right?
48:26 Because the addiction gives you dopamine now and costs you dopamine later, right?
48:31 And so you have to respect your future enough to say, "I want sustainable dopamine,"
48:34 which means avoiding the addictive behavior and pursuing the good stuff, right?
48:38 So it's a matter of sort of self-respect.
48:41 All right, let's see here.
48:44 "More and more liberals seem to be taking the red pill and becoming slightly more conservative
48:47 or should I say aligning more with the right and I never see the reverse.
48:50 I can't think of a single instance in more modern times where someone on the right comes out as a liberal.
48:54 With that being said, why is and does the propaganda machine double down on its ideologies
48:58 and increase the propaganda and false narratives knowing that it doesn't affect the right?
49:02 Do you think it's to stop the audiences/base from moving to the right,
49:05 keeping them enslaved to their ideology?"
49:07 I mean, it's kind of close to politics and there certainly are people who move to the left, right?
49:11 I can think of a whole bunch. I'm not going to name names.
49:14 But yeah, for sure, there are people who move to the left from the right.
49:20 So there are people who are sort of recognizing that things have gone kind of crazy in society
49:26 and we've gone too far and so on, right?
49:29 But once the left is in control of the major institutions,
49:32 they don't particularly care if you become more conservative, right?
49:36 Because they're already in control of the institutions.
49:38 So it's actually probably part of the fun of you feeling helpless and frustrated, right?
49:43 So that's why we have principles, not empiricism.
49:46 So the reason we have morality is because if you try to get your morality from empiricism,
49:52 it's too late, right?
49:54 So if you don't have any information about the dangers of smoking and you smoke like crazy
50:00 and then you say, "Oh my gosh, I have lung cancer," well, that's too late, right?
50:04 You want to have the information ahead of time, right?
50:07 If you don't have any information about nutrition or the dangers of obesity
50:10 and then you end up being 200 pounds overweight, well, your life is now a constant struggle
50:15 and you've got challenges and extra skin and loose stuff and blah, blah, blah.
50:18 Like it's a mess, right?
50:19 And you've lost a lot of your life to this obesity
50:23 and you've kind of messed up your health in a lot of ways.
50:26 So it's too late, right?
50:28 So we have principles because if we try to be moral by looking at empirical evidence, right?
50:35 So if you look at the Soviet Union, right, during the Russian Revolution,
50:40 the Communist Revolution in 1917, if people say, "Well, gee, you know,
50:45 communism is really inefficient and kind of murderous,
50:48 but the communists are already in power and have control over everyone and everything in the country,"
50:53 it's too late, right?
50:54 Now morality becomes almost suicidal, right?
50:56 So the reason we need principles is because by the time the empirical evidence of corruption
51:00 and immorality shows up, it's usually too late to be good in that way.
51:04 All right.
51:05 "Hello, Steph.
51:06 I'm writing a short novel in which a young up-and-coming politician gets a real devil's bargain.
51:10 My idea with the story is that I want him, the politician, to face evil.
51:13 I'm thinking something like three enveys which represent different facets or aspects of the darkness in man.
51:18 Can you give me some suggestions of that?"
51:21 Well, I mean, I think you just need to look at what's going on in the world
51:26 and what people are talking about to come up.
51:29 You don't need to use your imagination for these things, right?
51:32 So I think there's a fair amount of politics that involves blackmail and bribery and various things,
51:37 getting people in compromising situations, filming them and stuff like that.
51:40 So you can think of something like that.
51:42 All right.
51:43 "Please explain how you define philosophy and philosophical conversation.
51:47 I'm new here, but much of the conversation, especially with others,
51:50 seems to be around self-knowledge and history, unless I misunderstood.
51:54 Do you have any suggestions or ideas of what these different facets could be?
51:57 A little short this month, but I promise to donate at this month's end.
52:00 Thank you for everything."
52:01 I appreciate that.
52:02 So philosophy is when I'm talking, right?
52:07 I mean, I don't mean that every time I'm talking is philosophy.
52:10 So when I am writing the book, right, I write the book, UPP or RTR,
52:16 Real-Time Relationships, or Essential Philosophy, or Everyday Anarchy,
52:19 Practical Anarchy, Untruth, the Tyranny of Illusion, and so on,
52:22 then I'm making the case.
52:24 I'm making the case.
52:25 So that's philosophy.
52:26 You may say it's good or bad or whatever, but that's philosophy when I'm making the case
52:29 and making the arguments and first principles and building my case step by step
52:34 with reason and evidence.
52:35 That's philosophy.
52:36 A philosophical conversation is a debate.
52:40 All my call-in shows are debates.
52:42 All my call-in shows are debates.
52:45 And the debate is about history versus virtue, about propaganda from the family
52:52 or from the society versus truth.
52:55 So I'm debating.
52:56 And you can hear these role plays.
52:58 I do the role plays.
52:59 I just posted a really appalling role play, one of the most toxic ones, I think,
53:03 in the history of the show.
53:04 I posted that for donors at freedomain.locals.com.
53:07 So it's a debate.
53:08 Who's right?
53:09 So somebody calls up and says, "I feel like a bad person."
53:12 Okay, so who told you you were a bad person?
53:14 My parents.
53:15 Okay, so let's debate, right?
53:17 Let's debate that.
53:18 I'm going to debate the premises of your parents.
53:20 I'm going to examine your history and see how you came to think the way that you think,
53:25 and we're going to challenge those assumptions, right?
53:28 I don't want to leave home.
53:31 I'm 23.
53:32 I've got a single mother.
53:33 I don't want to leave home.
53:34 Well, is that true?
53:35 Is that a true statement that you don't want to leave home, or do you want to please your
53:39 mother who herself doesn't want to leave home, doesn't want you to leave home?
53:43 Is it you who doesn't want to leave home, or does your mother, who doesn't want to face
53:47 loneliness, your mother wants you to stay home and you're complying with her because
53:51 that's what kids do?
53:52 So this is just a debate.
53:53 All my call-in shows are debates.
53:54 So a philosophical conversation is people calling and saying, "My life is not working."
53:58 Well, philosophy is about your life working.
54:00 So if your life is not working, you have false ideas, and the false ideas are usually implanted
54:06 pretty early in life, so you don't even view them as beliefs, but rather as facts.
54:12 So, yeah, all of my call-in shows are debates about truth versus falsehood, and you can
54:20 see this, of course, in the dialogues of Plato and other philosophers.
54:24 You can see this as a big debate between collectivism and individualism, fascism and capitalism
54:30 in Atlas Shrugged.
54:31 So there's debates all over the place.
54:33 Integrity versus social metaphysics or pleasing others is in the fountainhead.
54:38 So, vanity versus integrity is the big dialogue or debate in my novel The Present.
54:47 So, I mean, minor spoiler, the main character, the first thing the main character says is
54:52 a lie.
54:53 "Oh, it was traffic.
54:55 That's why I'm late."
54:57 So the very first thing the character says is a lie, the main character, and the very
55:01 last thing the main character says in the book is the truth.
55:04 So that's the journey from lying to truth, from vanity to integrity.
55:08 So a philosophical conversation is when I have an opposing position, and philosophy
55:16 is when I'm making the case without immediate opposition.
55:21 Hopefully that helps.
55:22 Thank you everyone so much for your support of the show.
55:26 Freedomain.com/donate to help out the show.
55:29 You can go to freedomain.locals.com.
55:31 Use the promo code, all caps, UPB2022, and you get a free month.
55:36 If you sign up for a year, you get two months for free.
55:38 It's really the best that I can do, and you get all sorts of fantastic goodies, including
55:43 the new piece of parenting book.
55:45 If you donate this month, May 2024, freedomain.com/donate, you get Peaceful Parenting, the 23-hour audio
55:55 book, and the e-books.
55:57 You get those.
55:58 So I hope that you will help out the show.
55:59 You can also go to subscribestar.com/freedomain to help us out there as well.
56:03 Lots of love, everyone.
56:04 Take care.
56:05 Bye.
56:05 Take care, bye!