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(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Mazhar Abbas (Senior Analyst)
- Nusrat Javed (Senior Analyst)
- Muneeb Farooq (Analyst)
Bushra Bibi's secret meetings...? - Mohammad Malick Breaks Shocking News
Experts' reaction on Imran Khan's big statement regarding Bushra Bibi
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Mazhar Abbas (Senior Analyst)
- Nusrat Javed (Senior Analyst)
- Muneeb Farooq (Analyst)
Bushra Bibi's secret meetings...? - Mohammad Malick Breaks Shocking News
Experts' reaction on Imran Khan's big statement regarding Bushra Bibi
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, you are watching Khabar Lahariya, I am Mawad Malik.
00:16Let me tell you that I have a lot of news to share with you.
00:22There have been many interesting developments.
00:24Today, Imran Khan spoke to Bukla, the media, and his official statement came from his official handle.
00:30He has taken a big categorical stance on that.
00:33He said that he will sit in the next session, even though my negotiating committee has not been allowed to meet him yet.
00:39And that too is a spectacle.
00:41Yesterday, Rana Sinhaullah said in our show that Speaker Ayaz Sadiq is out of the country,
00:45that is why he is not able to do it now.
00:47This was his responsibility.
00:48Irfan Siddiqui says that no, no, this was actually to be done by the Ministry of Interior.
00:54Anyway, he is not doing it.
00:56Today, Ayaz Sadiq has issued a statement to the National Assembly,
01:01in which he said that it is neither his role, nor is it his authority, nor is it his responsibility.
01:05I am just a facilitator.
01:07I don't care if I am sitting outside, I will arrange a meeting, but it is not my responsibility.
01:14Whose responsibility is it?
01:15No one knows whose responsibility it is.
01:17Everyone is putting it on someone else.
01:19Anyway, Imran Khan has made it easy for him.
01:22Today, he has instructed the members of his committee, the lawyers,
01:25to go to the third session and present the demands of both the commissions,
01:31on 9th May, 26th November, and on 8th January.
01:37But he has made it clear that if there are no commissions in the next session,
01:41then the negotiations are over.
01:43Yesterday, Salman Akram Raja said this in our show.
01:46But the most interesting thing is something else, which I want to discuss in this show.
01:51Do you remember, a few days ago, Nusrat Javed Sahib reported that
01:54there have been some meetings of Busha Bibi,
01:58and a discussion is going on on track 2,
02:00and there is a lot of noise here, but the substance is elsewhere.
02:04There was a lot of reaction from the ruling party,
02:07from the parties, all the deniers, you must have seen that.
02:12I also gave a report on Wednesday, that we also met that Buddha.
02:17Today, Khan Sahib gave a very interesting statement.
02:20He said, I condemn the campaign against Busha Bibi.
02:25Whatever Busha Bibi is doing, she is doing it for me.
02:32We will talk about what she is doing.
02:34Because the people who are sitting in the knowledgeable circles in Islamabad,
02:39they are saying that whatever drama is going on,
02:41these two committees, sometimes they are sitting, sometimes they are not,
02:44they will sit, what will happen?
02:46Someone says, tell me the TOR, then we will talk.
02:49The food will be cooked somewhere else,
02:51but it will be distributed here, and all the credit will be taken.
02:54Today, Khan Sahib has also confirmed that Busha Bibi is doing something.
02:58What is happening?
02:59I also have some news on that in great detail.
03:02But first, I would like to introduce you to the guests.
03:06What do you say?
03:07Incredible troublemaker, Nusrat Javed Sahib is sitting with me.
03:10Thank you very much, Isha Ji.
03:12Mazhar Abbas has joined us from Karachi.
03:14Thank you very much, Mazhar Abbas.
03:16And Muneeb Farooq is also with us.
03:18Again, he is a younger brother, but he is a senior journalist.
03:21He is also with us.
03:23Shah Sahib, let me start with you.
03:25All these meetings that were going on,
03:28tell me, I have the details of four meetings right now.
03:32And I can only tell you the dates.
03:35And if someone has a problem,
03:37then I can only tell you that
03:39there are three people who are dealing with it.
03:43I have left out their names.
03:45There are three people who are handling it.
03:47On December 26, there is a meeting.
03:49On December 30, there is a meeting.
03:51On January 1, there is a meeting.
03:53And on January 5, there is a meeting.
03:55These four meetings have already taken place.
03:57This is a good thing.
03:58I had said on that day as well in my show,
04:00when Bhutto Sahib was there,
04:02Nusrat Bhutto Sahib had also made efforts.
04:04When Nawaz Sharif Sahib was there,
04:06this was yesterday,
04:07you saw that Begum Kulsoom Sahib also made efforts.
04:09This is very natural.
04:10And in negotiations,
04:12the most important factor is that
04:14the one for whom you are talking,
04:16the one for whom you are talking,
04:18how much trust he has in him,
04:20and how close he is to him.
04:22And if someone tells me that
04:24Khan Sahib has more trust in someone than Bushra Bibi,
04:27then at least I will not believe it.
04:29So there is nothing wrong in this.
04:31It is the most natural development.
04:33And when we look at the weight of the rest of the people,
04:36Khan Sahib's party leadership is also very
04:38temporary, transitory nature,
04:40which the rest of the people are following.
04:42The day Khan Sahib will be out,
04:44everyone will know that this leadership
04:46will also be somewhere else.
04:48Anyway, these are a lot of things.
04:50Shahji, let's start with you first.
04:52It is a simple thing.
04:54You made all the noise in the beginning.
04:56I plead guilty.
04:58But, the thing is,
05:00my job is to give news.
05:02And the way you interpreted it,
05:04it is a very simple thing.
05:07Let me tell you that
05:09I know about the security of CM Annex.
05:14It has nothing to do with others.
05:16There are institutions,
05:18there is a special branch,
05:20everything is there.
05:22From there I came to know,
05:24and I said as it is,
05:26that Bushra Bibi,
05:28without those guards,
05:30i.e. those who were with Khyber Pakhtunkhwa
05:32when they left Annex,
05:34Ali Amin Gaddapur Sahib
05:36has to provide them.
05:38A car comes for them
05:40and they leave.
05:42So, they are meeting someone.
05:44Now, you are saying
05:46the last meeting is on 5th.
05:48The meetings after 5th
05:50will also be held.
05:52That is why
05:54they have stopped on 6th and 7th.
05:56And probably,
05:58it may not happen tomorrow
06:00that those people
06:02who go from here,
06:04from our neighboring city,
06:06Peshawar,
06:08they have some personal work.
06:10That is why there is a delay.
06:12But,
06:14on the other hand,
06:16you see,
06:18if the negotiations
06:20were not happening
06:22in parallel,
06:24then, Malik,
06:26tell me a simple thing.
06:28One day, Khan Sahib suddenly dreams
06:30that he has forgotten
06:32the 26th of February.
06:34By doing this,
06:36we have even forgotten
06:38the 8th of February.
06:40So, what is the fundamental issue?
06:42The fundamental issue is
06:44that my mandate has been stolen.
06:46For the sake of negotiations,
06:48I am ready to forget the 8th of February.
06:50And what happened today?
06:52Today, if you talk to
06:54Barrister Gauhar Sahib,
06:56his close people are telling him
06:58that there is nothing
07:00in the hands of the government.
07:02Despite this, he has given permission
07:04to continue the negotiations
07:06because he knows that
07:08those who are in power,
07:10they have been told that
07:12whatever they are doing,
07:14and I am telling you from the first day,
07:16she is a loyal wife.
07:18And naturally,
07:20as you have given references
07:22that Begum Hutto for her husband
07:24and Begum Kulthum Sahiba,
07:26both of them are women.
07:28So, if Bushra Bibi is doing this,
07:30then what crime is she committing?
07:32And the rest of the
07:34character assassination
07:36in which you and I are not
07:38involved,
07:40these are the people
07:42who have leaked it today.
07:44They are being called
07:46because that character assassination
07:48is being done in the name
07:50of Bushra Bibi in the name
07:52of Mishal Yusufzai.
07:54Isn't there a singer?
07:56Buleya.
07:58Salman.
08:00Oh, he is a great singer.
08:02And look,
08:04his identity has been killed.
08:06His identity
08:08has been killed.
08:10This means that
08:12he is fully on board.
08:14I am just saying
08:16that these thoughts should be read separately.
08:18For example,
08:20the government that is doing
08:22this,
08:24they are making
08:26very flimsy excuses.
08:28They don't understand
08:30why they are not meeting.
08:32And today,
08:34everyone thought that
08:36Khawaja Sahib's statement
08:38the day before yesterday
08:40was very harsh,
08:42in which he told
08:44Nawaz Sharif Sahib
08:46that these are the
08:48chief's henchmen.
08:50Khawaja Sahib's tweet
08:52or ex-post,
08:54I can't even repeat it
08:56because it is so harsh
08:58that I can't even read it
09:00on the channel.
09:02Everyone thought that
09:04Khawaja Sahib will not
09:06make a mistake.
09:08But today he said
09:10that no,
09:12you should definitely
09:14have a third meeting.
09:16If the commission
09:18is seriously considering
09:20that they can get
09:22one commission
09:24and that is on May 9th.
09:26This is just a thought
09:28and not a decision.
09:30I can understand the reasons.
09:32Maybe because
09:34these are the culprits
09:36and the 26th
09:38is a different case.
09:40If
09:42do you think
09:44a third commission
09:46or a third seating
09:48will be considered
09:50then we can talk about it.
09:52Yesterday in my program
09:54Rana Sanaullah Sahib
09:56explained the reasons
09:58and said that
10:00it is not about the commission
10:02or the TORs
10:04or the framing of the commission
10:06or the TORs
10:08or the name of the judge.
10:10I said that you won't even let
10:12him become the chief judge.
10:14Similarly,
10:16the prisoners were asked
10:18to give a list
10:20on how to differentiate
10:22criminal cases and political cases.
10:24But today
10:26Mr. Khan
10:28had a tampered reaction
10:30that
10:32TORs should be held
10:34and you should return.
10:36But he also said
10:38that if this doesn't happen
10:40then there won't be a meeting.
10:42Are the negotiations
10:44linked to other negotiations?
10:46Do you think
10:48they are really independent?
10:50Yes, thank you.
10:52I wanted to talk about
10:54what we wanted to do
10:56before the program started.
10:58Leave that.
11:00We will do it later.
11:02We declared a strategy
11:04and you should be scared
11:06when the media is declared
11:08a strategy.
11:10In that case
11:12you will have to be hanged.
11:14Don't do this.
11:16For God's sake.
11:18Don't do this.
11:20The second thing
11:22is that
11:24I was surprised
11:26by Mr. Khan's statement
11:28on two things.
11:30On one hand, he is telling
11:32his negotiations team
11:34to go and do a third round.
11:36It is a good thing.
11:38But I am saying this
11:40to Dochan yesterday
11:42that I don't understand
11:44the core issue in PTI's demands
11:46because of which all this
11:48is happening.
11:50And that is 8th February.
11:52Have you surrendered from 8th February?
11:54Isn't 8th February
11:56your core issue anymore?
11:58And your core issue
12:00is only that it is important.
12:02But I think it should be linked to that.
12:04Because the real thing
12:06is that your fight
12:08since the 16th month
12:10of Shahbaz Sharif's government
12:12and after 8th February
12:14is all because of your mandate.
12:16So the mandate has disappeared
12:18from the entire struggle
12:20to return our mandate.
12:22Let me share a news with you.
12:24The issue is that
12:26I had kept some news
12:28in different programs.
12:30Now that you have asked such a question
12:32I will have to share this news with you.
12:34It is also happening
12:36that for PTI
12:38this facility can also be provided
12:40so that the tribunals
12:42can decide quickly.
12:44It is going to be a year
12:46and only 27% of the cases have been decided.
12:48There is a limit of 180 days
12:50for your decisions to be made.
12:52So it has been a long time since the 6th month.
12:54So only 27% of the cases
12:56have been in Punjab.
12:58And it is also being messaged
13:00that it is guaranteed
13:02that the big names
13:04of PMLN
13:06will have fair decisions
13:08and no one will influence them.
13:10Now imagine
13:12if Nawaz Sharif's decision
13:14is on the seat of Lahore
13:16that he has lost
13:18then what is the need to talk about 8th February.
13:20That will open a hole
13:22in Punjabi.
13:24So there are way outs.
13:26If the election is not happening
13:28then some other things are happening.
13:30What this means is
13:32that the above level
13:34negotiations
13:36that we are seeing
13:38these are not
13:40actual negotiations.
13:42Negotiations are being done
13:44either by Bushra Bibi
13:46because it is surprising
13:48that she said
13:50even though she speaks publicly
13:52that she does not bring her identity forward
13:54but today if she is saying
13:56that whatever Bushra Bibi is doing
13:58she is doing it for her own benefit.
14:00So this is
14:02another thing about Begum Butto
14:04or Urso Nawaz
14:06if it is seen from that perspective
14:08then it is a different thing.
14:10But in that
14:12what are the results of
14:14what the women did in the past.
14:16Begum Butto
14:18which Ghulam Mustafa Jatoori
14:20told me that when she
14:22put this condition
14:24that I am going to meet General Zia
14:26and I need your approval
14:28and that was a Turkish formula
14:30but Begum Butto said
14:32that I have no objection
14:34but he will not agree.
14:36Now here the issue
14:38when Kulthum Nawaz Sahiba met
14:40and then she met
14:42the result was seen later
14:44in the agreement of 2000.
14:46Now here
14:48this means that Imran Khan
14:50is telling his people
14:52to go and negotiate
14:54which is happening somewhere else
14:56and probably Bushra Bibi is doing it.
14:58So this thing within PTI
15:00is very disturbing.
15:02What is happening?
15:04What is the response of the government
15:06Government is mishandling
15:08a lot of things
15:10and the way
15:12Rana S.A.W. is saying something
15:14Ayaz S.A.W. is saying something
15:16I don't think that these negotiations
15:18which are visible
15:20these negotiations
15:22I don't think
15:24these negotiations
15:26will be successful.
15:28Whatever will happen
15:30will be a backdoor.
15:32Whatever relaxation
15:34will happen
15:36will be a backdoor
15:38and it will take some time
15:40and I don't think
15:42these negotiations
15:44will be successful
15:46because the judicial commission
15:48will be based on one thing
15:50and its scope is very limited.
15:52Let's get Muneeb
15:54in this thing also.
15:56Muneeb, the thing is
15:58you have to look at the weight
16:00like
16:02Khan's old political colleagues
16:04Shah Mahmood is a senior
16:06and he is inside.
16:08The old people like Ijaz Chaudhary
16:10who have seen all these things
16:12they are inside.
16:14There are three designations
16:16Gauhar is the chairman of the party
16:18Salman Akram Raja is the eminent lawyer
16:20He is a great lawyer
16:22but in politics
16:24he is the president of PTI
16:26and in politics
16:28he is a newcomer
16:30that's why
16:32the weight will be of the person
16:34who will be trusted
16:36and that is a natural thing.
16:38But I am just trying to understand
16:40that in your opinion
16:42what Khan sir has said
16:44despite meeting the committee
16:46this is a clear message
16:48that the government is giving
16:50and there is confusion
16:52but still he has said
16:54that if the commission is not accepted
16:56then this will happen.
16:58But there are many things on the table
17:00like I have told you
17:02about the tribunals
17:04it is a very important development
17:06My opinion is that the real sticking point
17:08is the date of the new elections
17:10and
17:12the things that have happened
17:14between friends
17:16informally or informally
17:18in that
17:20there is a gap of one year
17:22and from here
17:24there is a gap of maximum two years
17:26and one year has passed
17:28so from Khan sir's side
17:30we are hearing that
17:32he will be ready to accept the election
17:34in 2026
17:36and on the other hand
17:38he will be ready in 2028
17:40so the difference is still 2-2.5 years
17:42and the situation is still going on
17:44do you think this process will stop
17:46after the third session
17:48or do you think it will continue
17:50even if it is only for optics
17:52do you think it will stop
17:54even if it is only for optics
17:56Muneeb
17:58Thank you very much
18:00Mr. Malik
18:02I will try to reflect
18:04on my opinion later
18:06the news basically
18:08as Mr. Javed
18:10told me
18:12now the thing is
18:14the meetings of Bushra Bibi
18:16I have been saying for the last 8-10 days
18:18that what she is doing
18:20is for her husband
18:22and today Mr. Imran Khan confirmed it
18:24in those meetings
18:26there is a focus on one thing
18:28those are not negotiations
18:30that what you are offering
18:32and what we will offer you
18:34basically it is not like that
18:36if you allow me to tell
18:38there is a lot of discussion
18:40that your position is such
18:42where you do not have leverage
18:44so if you want to get your husband out of jail
18:46and want to normalize the situation
18:48then your husband has to concede
18:50he will have to concede
18:52on some things
18:54the basic thing is
18:56the things that are there
18:58the fundamental thing
19:00which is the focus of Bushra Bibi
19:02is what is there for us
19:04it is the same thing again and again
19:06and Bushra Bibi
19:08is a loyal wife
19:10like you said
19:12and like Mr. D'Souza said
19:14and her fundamental point is
19:16that Imran Khan should come out
19:18and she told Mr. Imran Khan
19:20in so many words
19:22that it is necessary for you to come out
19:24you can always bounce back
19:26but for that new things and new terms will come
19:28the important issue is
19:30this tribunal matter
19:32Mr. Malik
19:34it is an important thing
19:36that if someone agrees on this
19:38that without influence
19:40and if decisions are made
19:42then nothing is left
19:44like you said
19:46if one or two seats are decided
19:48then the perception
19:50is also a big matter
19:52second thing is
19:54this commission
19:56I would like to tell you very cautiously
19:58that it is not like
20:00that you take the commission of 9th May
20:02it is not like that
20:04if that commission will be there
20:06then the TORs will be made in such a way
20:08that their hands and legs will be cut
20:10and the result will be the same
20:12as the commission of 2014-2015
20:14that the result was such
20:16that the one who came to the judiciary
20:18they took it from top to bottom
20:20but that is later
20:22initially you get a victory
20:24that yes we got the commission
20:26like on negotiations
20:28they say that we forced
20:30whatever the government is doing
20:32but the establishment
20:34is talking to you
20:36indirectly
20:38so you have to give your spin
20:42this is the problem Mr. Malik
20:44this is the issue
20:46here the government
20:48does not matter
20:50they want the negotiations to end
20:52everything falls apart
20:54because the government is benefitting
20:56the issue is
20:58if we look at it in that way
21:00if a political party
21:02has leverage
21:04then it will do a good deal
21:06a good negotiation
21:08the question is
21:10does Imran Khan or Tehreek-e-Insaf have leverage
21:12I think all of us know
21:14that they do not have leverage
21:16if you say that
21:18the commission is not important for them
21:20mind you sir
21:22the most important
21:24the be all and end all
21:26what is the condition of
21:28release from jail
21:30in what terms
21:32that is the question
21:34leverage
21:36I agree that PTI
21:38is not in a state of protest
21:40on 26th November
21:42what happened
21:44in Punjab
21:46here
21:48workers are in jail
21:50who died
21:52it is
21:54the PTI
21:56but this is also a fact
21:58that two things are unquestioned
22:00one, Imran's support base is intact
22:02second, whoever is angry
22:04at PMLN
22:06whoever is angry at PPP
22:08whoever is angry at army
22:10all of them
22:12are with Imran Khan
22:14one is their own support base
22:16the other is the entire base
22:18and that is why popular support
22:20is intact
22:22there is a lot of leverage
22:24because they have succeeded
22:26in making an anti-establishment
22:28and this government
22:30has not made a counter-establishment
22:32isn't this a lot of leverage
22:34you don't get me wrong
22:36there is no doubt
22:38all the leverages you have made
22:40are absolutely valid
22:42let's be honest
22:44but boss
22:46you should be able to use it
22:48I will give you
22:50the latest Iphone
22:52and if you don't move ahead
22:54then what will happen
22:56here you have
22:58Kani Mugdhi and Mullah Bikta Sajal
23:00selling Jinn in Lailama
23:02whatever you are doing
23:04is for me
23:06second thing is
23:08I agree with Muneeb
23:10and you and I
23:12living in Islamabad
23:14have seen not one
23:16but at least three governments
23:18you must remember
23:20when respected Benazir Bhutto's
23:22second government
23:24Farooq Laghari was breaking
23:26then you had Kana
23:28I came there late
23:30all of you were after me
23:32and in those days
23:34Senator Raza Rabbani
23:36was the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs
23:38I said sorry I came late
23:40I got the news
23:42that Farooq Laghari is going to
23:44break the government
23:46do you remember
23:48that I was being a friend of
23:50Farooq Laghari
23:52and I gave him the permission
23:54to call the National Assembly
23:56do you remember
23:58keeping the same thing in mind
24:00it is possible that
24:02the thinking of the current government
24:04is wrong
24:06but the current government
24:08thinks that on 26th November
24:10they have broken the back
24:12of justice
24:14monopoly of
24:16when we have displayed
24:18our state power
24:20now we have the leverage
24:22and not him
24:24this can be a wrong perception
24:26I am forced to give this example
24:28so they think that
24:30they will have to concede
24:32and unfortunately
24:34the way the committee
24:36that we can see
24:38is conceding
24:40for example
24:42Farooq Laghari
24:44said what have we written
24:46we have two demands
24:48what is there to write
24:50now Barista Gauhar
24:52has come
24:54and said
24:56Imran Khan said
24:58if you want to write
25:00then write
25:02Fawad Chaudhry has posted
25:04that the leadership
25:06Imran Khan agreed
25:08otherwise he would have
25:10complained about
25:12the social media
25:14and the UAE president
25:16did this reach you?
25:18yes, Marwad also
25:20said a lot
25:22in which he said
25:24we have nothing to do
25:26and this thing
25:28Fawad Chaudhry
25:30said
25:32so how will
25:34the sticking point
25:36move forward
25:38in that my brother
25:40me and you
25:42our elders
25:44used to say that you
25:46do a lot of hard work as a reporter
25:48but for God's sake
25:50interpret the words
25:52the conversation
25:54that has happened today
25:56I don't know if it has reached you
25:58you have said to Fawad
26:00or Gauhar
26:02but it has reached me
26:04that show me the footage
26:06if my people were there
26:08then I will not
26:10only apologize
26:12hello
26:14I will not only apologize
26:16he said this to Faisal Chaudhry
26:18he also said this to Fawad's brother
26:20right
26:22so what is it?
26:24so what is it?
26:26if you really
26:28convince me
26:30that my people were there on 9th May
26:32I was not there
26:34but if my people were there
26:36and they took some
26:38initiative
26:40then I will take strict action
26:42and I will say that this was a bad thing
26:44now this is a
26:46different thing from that
26:48that if I am arrested
26:50then they will react like this
26:52this is a different thing
26:54I hope you understand
26:56I hope
26:58if we look at it at one level
27:00CBMs are coming from the other side
27:02then there is a punishment
27:04then people are forgiven
27:06then PTI says that
27:08those punishments were of 2 years
27:102-4 months were left
27:12but those punishments are forgiven
27:14which happened on 9th May
27:16then the office
27:18of PTI
27:20Islamabad opens
27:22then it is allowed to remain open
27:24and it is operated
27:26they say that it happened on the court's order
27:28on the court's order people are bailed
27:30the court also says that
27:32you will not be caught again
27:34so a mixed bag is going on
27:36I was watching a news about Don
27:38about Don news
27:40that
27:42they have said that
27:44if you do not use
27:46specific language
27:48then they will say that
27:50they will not do it again
27:52so a mixed bag is going on
27:54tell me one thing
27:56Muneeb has said
27:58that these are children of conflict
28:00they are not beneficial
28:02they do not want peace
28:04because they will get peace at their cost
28:06be it tribunals or early elections
28:08if the situation can improve
28:10then there are 2 sticking points
28:121. Election timing
28:142. Imran Khan's release
28:16it will take time for the release
28:18but will we be able to talk
28:20about other things
28:221. Election before time
28:24and 2. Tribunals
28:26so that we can work
28:28the most important thing is
28:30that all three of you
28:32are well informed
28:34you talked about support
28:36in one place
28:38support is increasing
28:40which is a matter of concern for them
28:42and
28:44in that support
28:46where they are watching
28:48it is also very important
28:50that the campaign
28:52that is going on against them
28:54how to minimize it
28:56reduce it and end it
28:58because
29:00in all the circles
29:02where you talk
29:04you can see their support
29:06you are talking about America
29:08you are talking about America
29:10you are talking about Washington
29:12I am not talking about Washington
29:14there is a Washington here
29:16I am not talking about there
29:18I am talking about within the circles
29:20within the circles
29:22of this thing
29:24that the support
29:26you can see
29:28you can see the retired officers
29:30how much support
29:32they have there
29:34so that is also
29:36a matter of concern for them
29:38that we will continue this fight
29:40there is no decrease in its popularity
29:42on the other hand
29:44the popularity is not increasing
29:46so somewhere
29:48where we are getting it conceded
29:50somewhere we will also have to concede
29:52at some level
29:54we will also have to give it
29:56and I think
29:58the matter will be settled there
30:00it will not happen that
30:02only Imran Khan will concede
30:04it will not happen
30:06I want to take a break
30:08it is so easy
30:10see two or three things
30:12you told about the support
30:14about that it was said
30:16that he will not cut jail
30:18unlike
30:20our different political
30:22leaders
30:24he did not go to the hospital for a day
30:26due to illness
30:28so all these things
30:30are multiplying his popularity
30:32and in the next election
30:34the new voter
30:36his chunk will be
30:38someone gave me a very interesting answer
30:40I also said the same
30:42he said worry about the popularity
30:44those who want to fight the election
30:46and the second thing
30:48you sitting in Karachi
30:50you think that the retired
30:52personnel is a big deal
30:54believe me
30:56when you retire in Islamabad
30:58then you are there
31:00your family is there
31:02and they are tired
31:04don't worry about that
31:06sitting in Karachi is more
31:08let me take a break
31:10after the break
31:12why is there a restriction on everyone
31:14there is no restriction
31:16even the big jails have become silent
31:18retired people are retiring
31:20after the break
31:22they are screaming in my ears
31:24you know
31:26your producers will blow your ears
31:28so let's take a break
31:30after the break we will talk
31:36you are welcome back to the show
31:38Muneeb there is a very important issue
31:40earlier we were listening
31:42and everyone was sure
31:44that the military trial
31:46can be held
31:48on May 9th
31:50in the military
31:52then when the international reaction
31:54came
31:56then the American scene
31:58then the case is also going on in the Supreme Court
32:00yesterday
32:02Salman Khan said
32:04he didn't want to comment on the judges
32:06they are being presented
32:08he said
32:10I think the Supreme Court
32:12will find an intermediate way
32:14I was listening to
32:16Justice Naeem's comment
32:18he said
32:20if in this case
32:22a trial can be held
32:24then maybe
32:26the intermediate way
32:28can be done
32:30maybe this is
32:32related to Imran Khan's future
32:34what is the
32:36possibility
32:38of a handpicked
32:40I.N.I. bench
32:42which is a controversial setup
32:44which has happened with the Supreme Court
32:46which has been managed
32:48how much is the possibility
32:50that the court
32:52allows
32:54civilians' trial in the military
33:00I will see this purely
33:02as a student of law
33:04one thing is
33:06the intent
33:08earlier the trials were completed
33:10the punishments were stopped
33:12on the final outcome
33:14but to allow this
33:16I found it a bit strange
33:18that you allowed
33:20the military courts to announce the punishments
33:22and you transferred them to the jails
33:24this was a tester
33:26to gauge the reaction
33:28but Muneeb
33:30I am sorry
33:32Muneeb, one thing
33:34please make it clear
33:36the I.N.I. bench
33:38did not decide on their own
33:40they asked the applicants
33:42whether they should do it or not
33:44this was an agreement
33:46but anyway
33:48this was a tester
33:50Sir, I will say this
33:52you quoted the right fact
33:54it was with consent
33:56it is asked to do it
33:58but this is a contingent
34:00on this
34:04the army says
34:06that this case
34:08is of the people of Pakistan
34:10but the principal component
34:12is the army of Pakistan
34:14they consider it an attack on them
34:16this has been allowed
34:18you can call it a tester
34:20but somehow
34:22after that decision
34:24it was contingent on the final outcome
34:26I think
34:28it is always a coin toss
34:30with these kind of situations
34:32I think
34:34the court will say
34:36that in extreme
34:38exceptional circumstances
34:40which are germane
34:42to this particular incident
34:44you can do it
34:46we should keep this in mind
34:48but
34:50if you give a blanket
34:52that you can do a civilian trial
34:54in the military
34:56which is a crime
34:58under Pakistan Army Act
35:00I don't think they will
35:02limit it
35:04but there is a feeling
35:06and I am sharing this
35:08on the basis of information
35:10that things can go south also
35:12that it can happen
35:14that they say
35:16I am sorry
35:18we have come to the conclusion
35:20that this cannot happen
35:22under any circumstances
35:24the expectation
35:26is very limited
35:28but it is there
35:30no one is saying
35:32nothing is going to happen
35:34there is a cushion
35:36as far as Imran Khan is concerned
35:38the intent
35:40I have been saying
35:42on the basis of that
35:44I kept on saying
35:46there is an intent
35:48but I had a doubt
35:50I try my best
35:52but I will
35:54wish
35:56that
35:58this precedent
36:00should not be set
36:02that a former PM
36:04should be given a military trial
36:06because it is going to set
36:08a very bad precedent
36:10an awkward precedent
36:12I totally agree with you
36:14this is a very dangerous precedent
36:16Shah ji, let's come to America
36:18when these
36:20Donald Trump tweets came
36:22everyone was very excited
36:24but now they are silent
36:26but the reason is
36:28Trump's chief of staff
36:30has sent a mail
36:32to all the people
36:34of the coming administration
36:36that they should not
36:38post their tweets
36:40so they are silent
36:42a very senior
36:44diplomat
36:46will not be here
36:48so I asked him
36:50if we should take
36:52Brennan seriously
36:54because he is a special envoy
36:56for Venezuela
36:58so he said
37:00because he is a close friend
37:02of Trump's younger son
37:04so don't look at
37:06his real strength
37:08he is an old man
37:10with a system
37:12so everyone is hoping
37:14that he will be involved
37:16but he is not
37:18so will there be
37:20a lot of tension
37:22that he will
37:24postpone his seat
37:26to November 26
37:28and America will not fly
37:30will that cause
37:32a rethink
37:34or will they just
37:36give up on
37:38PTI and Imran
37:40the situation
37:42right now
37:44I have spoken to some people
37:46in Washington
37:48they think that
37:50the incident in New Orleans
37:52with 15 people
37:54and Daesh's resurgence
37:56now there is a lot
37:58of rethinking going on
38:00and the rest
38:02like Elon Musk
38:04and the British
38:06and France
38:08and Trump's
38:10plans for Canada
38:12where will America
38:14go out of the way
38:16to take Greenland
38:18and go and fight
38:20in the 4th world war
38:22he is not that close
38:24let's be honest
38:26there is a very strong lobby
38:28for whatever reasons
38:30if it doesn't happen
38:32we think that
38:34if from America
38:36from the Trump administration
38:38significant
38:40that is
38:42what you can feel
38:44if there is no pressure
38:46from the Trump administration
38:48then I think
38:50the government's approach
38:52or whatever it is
38:54we have shown
38:56on November 26
38:58what we can do
39:00now America will not
39:02they will turn more
39:04hostile
39:06Mazhar do you agree
39:08look sir
39:10how much more will you do
39:12let's say 9 comes from Trump
39:14or nothing happens
39:16what will you do maximum
39:18for the last 10 days
39:20the press will stop
39:22they will start again
39:24they will start
39:26disturbing other parties
39:28look sir
39:30the maximum was done
39:32the beating was done
39:34the punishment was done
39:36maybe I am wrong
39:38but in my opinion
39:40for a regular court
39:42military courts
39:44giving a decision
39:46in favour of civilians
39:48I don't think it is right
39:50maybe I am wrong
39:52but I don't think it is right
39:54the comments so far
39:56are going in the opposite direction
39:58but unfortunately in Pakistan
40:00I get worried
40:02because when the comments
40:04the decision is different
40:06suppose
40:08there is a crackdown
40:102000 people are arrested
40:12you have to get the elections done
40:14sometime
40:16since October
40:18local bodies have not been elected in Punjab
40:20even in the next 6 months
40:22local bodies are not being elected
40:24but the real thing
40:26is how will you reduce
40:28its popular support
40:30the more you do
40:32its popular support will increase
40:34so whether you are
40:36Trump or not
40:38the threat that Trump has given to Hamas
40:40there will be a problem
40:42that if till my inauguration
40:44they will not leave this money
40:46then for Hamas
40:48the situation
40:50you don't figure it out
40:52but if
40:54there is no direct or indirect
40:56from Trump
40:58then also I think
41:00it happened
41:02more than 8th February
41:04nothing else was going to happen
41:06everything was zeroed
41:08but still they won
41:10so how will we counter that
41:12this is the basic question
41:14if you give Imran Khan
41:1610 more years then what will happen
41:18as long as Imran is there
41:20I will take a break
41:22after the break
41:24in the last segment
41:26I will ask the rest of the friends
41:28what else can happen
41:30can there be more difficulties
41:32if there will be then what will happen
41:34and what option does Imran Khan have
41:36to move forward
41:38after the break
41:46Welcome back
41:48Shahji, what is fair forward
41:50apart from mutually decided
41:52early elections
41:54nothing else can be seen
41:56Mazhar is right
41:58what else can be done
42:00I don't agree with Mazhar
42:02he knows that
42:04when the states
42:06get confused
42:08that someone's life
42:10has to be tortured
42:12then a lot can be done
42:14what can be done
42:16God forbid
42:18Imran Khan is alive
42:20here the Prime Minister
42:22has been hanged
42:24till now
42:26he has not been beaten
42:28etc.
42:30and God forbid
42:32atleast I
42:34have expressed my freedom
42:36all my life
42:38this is a democratic government
42:40anyway
42:42look
42:44fundamentally
42:46we are a small nation
42:48so a small democracy is going on
42:50but such a democracy
42:52is not going on
42:56so what is the way forward
42:58the way forward is
43:00I think
43:02the way Bushra Bibi is making efforts
43:04there can be a way out
43:06listen to me
43:08I think
43:10if we
43:12don't create a fire
43:14like the boys
43:16and talk with a cool heart
43:18look at what
43:20we have succeeded
43:22that the 26th amendment
43:24ok fine
43:26when it is our turn
43:28we will do it
43:30the biggest problem
43:32in the true sense
43:34is that
43:36for a justifiable reason
43:38the revolutionary inside
43:40comes and shouts
43:42ok quickly
43:44so the problem is
43:46that the way is
43:48you do this together
43:50neither today nor tomorrow
43:52create a system of free and fair
43:54and impartial elections
43:56and that's it
43:58the biggest problem in my opinion
44:00very quickly
44:02between two powerful people
44:04of Pakistan
44:06there is a matter of mistrust
44:08will it end?
44:10no
44:12I don't think so
44:14it can't end till 2027
44:16but
44:18what is the way forward?
44:20last 30 seconds
44:22I also agree with Muneeb
44:24I don't think
44:26the way both
44:28are being treated
44:30there can be
44:32an agreement
44:34what is the way forward?
44:36they told me in their ears
44:38that we are giving you 1-1.5 minutes
44:40I will ask Muneeb
44:42what is the way forward?
44:44about Imran
44:46it is within the circles
44:48that he is not
44:50anti-establishment
44:52in the past
44:54the other leaders about Mian
44:56in comparison to him
44:58it is said here that
45:00he is not anti-establishment
45:02he feels that he has been mistreated
45:04General Bajwa
45:06has mistreated him
45:08and in any case
45:10he was a believer
45:12that even if he comes back
45:14it will not happen
45:16that he is against
45:18the establishment
45:20very quickly before I go to Muneeb
45:22how can mistrust be reduced?
45:24will Trump do it?
45:26mistrust
45:28can be reduced in such a way
45:30that you say
45:32it has been 2-2.5 years
45:34after 2.5 years we will have a fresh election
45:36and election commission
45:38neither yours nor mine
45:40same question
45:42what is the way forward?
45:44positions, heels are dug in
45:46personalities are strong
45:48interests are totally diverse
45:50how will it move forward?
45:52Sir
45:54my wish is the same
45:56as Madan Abbas has said
45:58that there should not be any
46:00conflicts
46:02but let me tell you one thing
46:04Bajwa's establishment
46:06has raised its flag
46:08on the basis of education
46:10I am from the people
46:12very relevant
46:14today's establishment
46:16has raised its flag in the
46:18hatred of Imran
46:20this total conceit
46:22total war or nothing at all
46:24that is the work
46:26if total conceit is done
46:28politicians will find a way
46:30if Imran Khan does it
46:32eventually there will be a way
46:34but let me tell you one thing
46:36I can't say that
46:38there will be a miracle
46:40or something else
46:42I can't say anything
46:44but from where I see it
46:46honestly I am saying
46:48there should not be any
46:50conflict
46:52and there is still a lot to happen
46:54if this war continues
46:56so we will end here
46:58thank you very much
47:00people are strong
47:02people are strong
47:04people are strong
47:06for the country
47:08there should be a little conflict
47:10for the country
47:12Allah Hafiz