#pti #imrankhan #aliamingandapur #bushrabibi #aitrazhai #alimuhammadkhan #ptiprotestislamabad
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Senator Afnan Ullah PMLN
- Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi (SRPM)
- Senator Kamran Murtaza JUIF
- Ali Muhammad Khan PTI
- Qamar Zaman Kaira PPP
Ali Amin Gandapur rejects Bushra Bibi's claim regarding D-Chowk - Ali Muhammad Khan's Reaction
Ali Muhammad Khan reacts to Aleema Khan's claim regarding Imran Khan's release
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Senator Afnan Ullah PMLN
- Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi (SRPM)
- Senator Kamran Murtaza JUIF
- Ali Muhammad Khan PTI
- Qamar Zaman Kaira PPP
Ali Amin Gandapur rejects Bushra Bibi's claim regarding D-Chowk - Ali Muhammad Khan's Reaction
Ali Muhammad Khan reacts to Aleema Khan's claim regarding Imran Khan's release
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful, I am Anika Nisar in the program
00:12Atiraaz.
00:13Viewers, one thing has become very clear that the government is facing a lot of challenges
00:17from the front.
00:18On the one hand, Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf is talking about civil disobedience.
00:21So, yesterday in my program, Faisal Wada says that the wind will blow from the bubble of
00:26civil disobedience.
00:27Now, this will be known when December 14 will come.
00:31Because before this, the government was also understanding that people will not be able
00:34to come in the protest or protest of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf this time.
00:38Whether the government is ready to tackle this or not, this is becoming an important question.
00:43But if the challenge was only up to here, contained, then the matter is different.
00:48The challenge is moving ahead.
00:50And Maulana Fazlur Rehman has also come into the protest mode at this time.
00:54Yesterday, he has to protest.
00:57He is saying that after the slogans of Israel Murdabad, it may not be that the slogans of
01:02the government of Murdabad should also start sounding.
01:24Now, this situation is definitely serious for the government.
01:43But on the other hand, Fawad Chaudhry is giving a suggestion.
01:46He is saying that the national government should come.
01:48Does the government really have so many dangers that the national government has to come now?
01:51And for this, all the communities will have to be prepared.
01:54Where are they coming from with that possibility?
01:56He is also saying that Maulana Fazlur Rehman is important for the government at this time.
02:00Not just that.
02:02He has also said that if there is a negotiation, then with Karne Khan.
02:06That is, he has nullified the negotiation team of PTI in a way.
02:09Listen.
02:10The committee that Imran Khan has made for negotiations, the government gets a chance
02:17to start talking immediately to reduce the political temperature in Pakistan.
02:22There will be no stability in Pakistan until Imran Khan's political importance and status are not accepted.
02:28Negotiate directly with Imran Khan and find a way.
02:31One way is the national government.
02:33A joint prime minister should come for a while.
02:35Talk about this.
02:37Now, this situation is being created in such a way that in terms of negotiations,
02:41Ali Amin Gandapur is also saying that if we are offering negotiations,
02:44we are not doing it for the government.
02:45We are doing it for the country.
02:46Now, what can happen for the country is very important.
02:48To talk about this, the guests who are present with me,
02:51especially Maulana Fazlur Rehman and a rift is increasing between the government.
02:55They are present with me to discuss that.
02:57At this time, in the studios, Senator Afnanullah Khan is the leader of PMLN.
03:01Thank you very much, Senator.
03:02You joined.
03:03Senator Kamran Murtaza is present with us.
03:05He is the senior leader of JUI.
03:07Thank you very much.
03:08Senator, you also joined.
03:09Last but not the least, Allama Tahir Ashrafi is present with us.
03:12He is the chairman of the Pakistan Ulema Council.
03:14Mr. Tahir Ashrafi, let's start with you first.
03:16Allama sahib, Maulana sahib's point is right that there should be registration of all Madrasas.
03:22Their accounts should be there.
03:24It was also in the NACTA and National Action Plan that they should be registered.
03:29But is the government really putting a stop to registration and opening accounts?
03:35As Maulana sahib is saying.
03:38In the name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful.
03:40We praise Him and send blessings upon His noble Messenger.
03:43Look, the request is that this is a very long story.
03:49And it is a long struggle that in Pakistan, for about 72-73 years,
03:56the Ministry of Education did not accept the education of Madrasas.
04:01There was a notification from the HSCP and other than that.
04:06After that, there was a long discussion and discussion, a big gathering, a big meeting.
04:12In the era of General Bajwa sahib.
04:14And it was decided that the registration of the Madrasas should be associated with the Ministry of Education.
04:25With the Ministry of Education.
04:27This was a matter of great joy.
04:29Everyone expressed their happiness that after 72-73 years in Pakistan,
04:34the government of Pakistan has also accepted the education of Madrasas.
04:38After that, there were about 5 boards.
04:43Then there were 10 boards.
04:45There were 15 in total.
04:47Out of the 15 boards, 10 boards are currently with the Ministry of Education.
04:52A directorate has been created for religious education.
04:56They are getting registered with them.
04:58Their bank accounts are also being opened.
05:00And out of 18,000 Madrasas, 25,000 out of 24,000 have registered themselves with that directorate.
05:10Out of which these 5 boards, they also have 4,500 Madrasas.
05:15So Allama sahib, where is Maulana sahib's demand right and where is it wrong?
05:19Either it is absolutely right or it is absolutely wrong.
05:21How do you see that?
05:22Look, Maulana sahib has the right to keep his point of view.
05:27He says that our Madrasas should be registered with the Ministry of Education.
05:32Absolutely, if this is Maulana's position that his Madrasas should be registered with the Ministry of Education,
05:37then they should be registered.
05:39But the 18,000 Madrasas that have been associated with the Ministry of Education,
05:44then what should they do?
05:46The real issue is the education of Madrasas, not the Ministry of Education.
05:49The real issue is the education of Madrasas, not the Ministry of Education.
05:52And if we look at it from a democratic perspective,
05:56then 5 boards are on one side and 10 boards are on the other side.
06:00And if we look at it from a different perspective,
06:02then 6,000 Madrasas are remaining.
06:0518,000 have associated themselves with the Ministry of Education.
06:10The state bank has issued an order to open the accounts of these Madrasas.
06:15Allama sahib, I will come back to you.
06:18Senator Kamran Murtaza sahib,
06:20as Maulana sahib has said today,
06:22if the matters are not resolved,
06:24Zardari sahib had made a formal commitment as the President,
06:28if he does not fulfill the commitment,
06:30then we will protest.
06:33Not just the slogans of Israel-Murdabad,
06:35but the slogans of the government of Murdabad will also be raised.
06:37What kind of a situation is this,
06:39that everything was decided
06:41and after that, at this time,
06:43everything seems to be upside down.
06:46What happened?
06:48The background of this is that
06:52the two people who passed the bill,
06:58the bill came for a reason,
07:02and before the bill was passed,
07:04it went to this cabinet,
07:07which is still in force today,
07:09in which Wazir Azam sahib and other ministers are included.
07:14It was passed from there,
07:16and after that, it came to both parties,
07:19and it was passed from here.
07:21This means that
07:23what Tahir Ashrafi sahib is saying,
07:25Maulana,
07:27that cabinet did not have much knowledge of the poor,
07:31and they passed it in that cabinet as well,
07:34and they had more knowledge than me,
07:36and more than that cabinet,
07:38and more than that parliament,
07:40and it was passed in that,
07:42because either their meaning was stuck at that time,
07:45that they had to take out that meaning,
07:48or their qualifications were not so good,
07:52that they would have known this,
07:54which Maulana Tahir Ashrafi sahib knows today.
07:58So in both cases,
08:00the people running Pakistan,
08:02then you establish your opinion about them,
08:05that what kind of people are running Pakistan,
08:08which a commoner like me knows,
08:13but he did not know about it.
08:16Your point of view is understandable,
08:19but tell me,
08:20that now a dialogue with the government,
08:22because they have said,
08:23that do something about it,
08:24and Maulana sahib has said,
08:26that I do not want to see it,
08:27I do not want to read it,
08:28and I will not tolerate even holding it with tongs.
08:30So this is a complete rejection.
08:33When the meaning came out,
08:35they did not recognize it.
08:37Then after that,
08:38you took out your meaning,
08:40which you did politically,
08:43you do not have a say on it,
08:45you have to establish this thing,
08:47that we took out the meaning,
08:49and then after that,
08:51withdrew it.
08:53In any way,
08:55if you did not have knowledge that day,
08:57in October,
08:59when they were working,
09:01then also,
09:02you did not have a say.
09:04Then also,
09:05your morality,
09:08was tested.
09:11Sir, I am coming back to you.
09:13I am coming back to you.
09:14Senator Afnan,
09:15one question.
09:16Anika,
09:17give me a minute.
09:18Allama sahib,
09:19very quickly,
09:20my elder brothers,
09:23my elder brothers,
09:24Senator Kamran Murtaza sahib,
09:26I will request,
09:27that my brothers,
09:28I did not do this,
09:29or you did not do this,
09:30this is under the law of the government of Pakistan,
09:33after 2019,
09:35which became a directorate,
09:37of religious education,
09:39after that,
09:40the registration started,
09:42there are signatures in it,
09:44there were people of five faiths present,
09:47so Kamran sahib,
09:48it is not that Maulana did not know,
09:51or the people of five faiths,
09:53they did not know,
09:54or the government did not know,
09:56everything is on record,
09:59it became a directorate,
10:01it has a DG,
10:02along with it,
10:0318000 madrassas were registered,
10:05I am not talking about Maulana,
10:06I am talking about the government,
10:08which is the government,
10:09I am talking about the government,
10:11the government does not do this,
10:13the government does not do this,
10:14so you are representing the government,
10:15Senator Afnan here,
10:16Afnan sahib,
10:17you were directly told,
10:18by Senator Kamran,
10:19that you did not know this much,
10:20in such ignorance,
10:21you are running the government,
10:22that first you made a promise,
10:23then you got it passed,
10:24from both the houses,
10:25should this be considered,
10:26a collusion,
10:27that you told the President,
10:28that no,
10:29we will not do it now,
10:30we will not sign it now,
10:31we will do our work,
10:32it is a matter of time,
10:33was this the case?
10:34Yes,
10:35in the name of Allah,
10:36the most merciful,
10:37see,
10:38we are a coalition government,
10:40and a hybrid system,
10:42in that,
10:43the matters are run,
10:44in the same way,
10:45as the country is running,
10:46Sadr sahib,
10:47is the head of a party,
10:48a very big party,
10:49of Pakistan,
10:50if someone thinks,
10:51that we are influencing them,
10:52then I think,
10:53this is not right,
10:55but Maulana sahib,
10:56is saying,
10:57that sitting in Lahore,
10:58the Prime Minister was present,
10:59the President was present,
11:00and the promises were made,
11:01those promises,
11:02we have fulfilled on our end,
11:03we have put our vote,
11:04in the Nihal family,
11:05in the Senate,
11:06now we,
11:07this is obvious,
11:08we could not calculate,
11:09that the matter can be stopped,
11:10on the President's end,
11:11so this was completely unexpected,
11:12no,
11:13see,
11:14when Bilawal sahib,
11:15himself was involved in this,
11:16he said,
11:17we will not do this,
11:18we will not do this,
11:19we will not do this,
11:20we will not do this,
11:21we will not do this,
11:22we will not do this,
11:23the people's party was involved in this,
11:24the people's party was completely involved,
11:25we did not give the guaranties,
11:26only the people's party have given,
11:27where did you stop this matter?
11:28tell me this,
11:29because this is an unexpected matter,
11:30this matter was stopped at the President's house,
11:31there is no doubt in this,
11:32so the President,
11:33Asif Zardari sahib,
11:34did not listen to his own son,
11:35is that what you are saying?
11:36this is before the whole world,
11:37what am I saying,
11:38it is in front of you,
11:39this is said,
11:40the government has no relation to this,
11:41no,
11:42tell me where,
11:43if we have stopped,
11:44or if we have done something,
11:45then you tell me,
11:46but in spite of this,
11:47I would like to say that we will try to address the concerns of Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman Sahib.
11:54How? He has given time till 8th. Now the meeting is coming on 10th.
12:02There is a gap of two days. How will we address this?
12:06Maulana Sahib does not even want to see the amendments that you have given. He has made it very clear.
12:10First the bill will be passed, then no one can amend it.
12:13But you have given some amendments in the bill.
12:17That is fine. But now we want to resolve the issues through talks.
12:26We are trying not to boil over the issues.
12:29For that we will talk to the brothers of JUI. We are doing it and we will do more.
12:36Are you talking to them now?
12:37Of course we are. That is why you are getting all the information.
12:40We are trying to address their concerns.
12:43At what level is this happening? Is it happening directly with Maulana Sahib or with the second tier leadership?
12:49Prime Minister is involved in this. People from the cabinet are also involved.
12:54People from JUM are also involved in senior leadership.
12:58Allama Sahib, what is the solution in your opinion?
13:01First of all, you have Senator Kamran's reservations.
13:04Secondly, Maulana Sahib has taken a very strict stance.
13:07Maulana Sahib generally does not take such a strict stance.
13:11He works very patiently.
13:15This time's strict stance is definitely a sign for the government.
13:19What can be the way out?
13:21You are talking about disparity.
13:23There are 15 votes on one side and 5 votes on the other.
13:27First of all, it is a request.
13:29You are saying that a directorate was established for 10 boards.
13:33No, this directorate was established for 15 boards.
13:37It was for religious education.
13:39It should be rectified.
13:40There are not two systems in the country.
13:42There is only one system.
13:44If the government has made a promise to Maulana Sahib,
13:48then it should have been seen how it should be resolved.
13:53One more thing that is being said a lot and has been going on since yesterday
13:58is that Madrasas are in great danger.
14:00No one's father can close the Madrasas.
14:04I am a Madrasa student.
14:06My father is a Maulvi.
14:08My grandfather is a Maulvi.
14:09My grandfather is a Maulvi.
14:10Alhamdulillah, in this country, there are lakhs of students and thousands of Madrasas.
14:15We are their guardians.
14:17We are standing in the front row.
14:19They are always afraid that someone from outside will come and take away the Madrasas in Pakistan.
14:26Alhamdulillah, Madrasas are a force.
14:29They are serving Pakistan.
14:31They are serving the view of Pakistan, the religion.
14:34We are not beggars sitting on the streets.
14:38Someone will come and close the Madrasas.
14:40I do not accept this fear.
14:44I cannot accept this.
14:45This cannot happen.
14:46Alhamdulillah, Madrasas are doing their job.
14:49They will continue to do their job.
14:51Today, Madrasas are being provided with worldly education and religious education.
14:56The youth of my Madrasa is in the army.
14:59The youth of my Madrasa is in the Navy.
15:02Go to Karachi and see Jamia-Tur-Rashid.
15:05You are saying that there is no danger.
15:07What is your point?
15:08You are saying that there is no danger.
15:09No Madrasa is in danger.
15:11But Maulana is saying that Madrasa is in danger.
15:14So that the registration of Madrasa is done.
15:17So that the issue of Madrasa's bank account is solved.
15:19Maulana's legal reservations should be removed.
15:24But the 18,000 Madrasas that have been registered should not be put in any danger.
15:29The registration of Madrasa should be done.
15:31This should not be a game.
15:34Senator Kamran, the government has decided that you are being interviewed.
15:38And this matter will be tried to be solved.
15:41And there is no doubt that Maulana Fazlur Rehman has played a very important role in the 26th Ayn-e-Tarimeen.
15:48So there will be a certain respect in the eyes of the government.
15:51Do you think that the government, until and unless as it is, will not listen to you.
15:56Can there be any other solution?
16:00You are asking me?
16:01Yes, Senator.
16:02Yes, Senator.
16:33October 20th or 21st or 22nd has been removed.
16:36Or 23rd has been removed.
16:38The matter is over.
16:39After that, these 8 Madrasas were registered after 10 days.
16:44This happened after Bilawal came.
16:46Now this is in the back date.
16:48Or in the same date, the day Bilawal came.
16:51Or the one after that.
16:52So what was this?
16:54Was this possible?
16:55And now in the middle, the middle way.
16:58The middle way is that it should be diluted in some way.
17:01So this means again that the day we were deceived, we were lied to.
17:09We were voted.
17:11And after taking the vote, our work, after that, the dispute started.
17:17So Mr. Kamran, if the government says, we will not listen to you as it is.
17:22And it will have to come somewhere in the middle way.
17:24For example, this is a hypothetical question.
17:26If this happens, then what will be the stance of the JUI?
17:30Will it be the same protest?
17:32And will the protest be tried in some way with some other Jamaat?
17:37Or will your stance be taken forward?
17:39Look, we lift our own weight.
17:42Neither do we put our own weight on anyone else.
17:44Nor are we ready to lift the weight of any other Jamaat.
17:48There is no doubt about this.
17:50The rest is that this is an issue.
17:52This is an issue.
17:54I think we will resolve it by tomorrow.
17:58Tomorrow is in October.
18:01We have a conference.
18:03And we will discuss it.
18:05And the result of the discussion will come out.
18:08We told the government that you also have four days.
18:11Four days are with you.
18:13You also think.
18:15We also have four days.
18:16We also think.
18:17Now I am telling them that you also have one day.
18:20We also have one night.
18:22We also think.
18:24You can do whatever you want.
18:27We will do what we feel is right.
18:30Mr. Sinha, what will you do?
18:31This is what I want to know.
18:32What will be the next step of the JUI?
18:34What will it do?
18:35That is not decided by Kamran Murtaza.
18:38That is decided by the Jamaat.
18:40There must have been a discussion in the Jamaat regarding this, right?
18:43We don't know what will happen in the end.
18:49We will discuss the target date with them.
18:55The target date is tomorrow.
18:58So now the ball is in the court of the government.
19:01Yes.
19:02So now the ball is in the court of the government.
19:05Senator Afnaan, it is in your hands.
19:07Either you agree to it.
19:10Because there is no other way.
19:13We are trying to resolve this issue with consensus.
19:22But the President has stopped it.
19:25It did not stop at our end.
19:27We have a coalition partner.
19:29So we are trying to…
19:31You will have to bear all the consequences.
19:33But remember this.
19:34But why will we have to bear the consequences when we have not stopped it?
19:36See, it is the responsibility of…
19:39So you are saying that the President should know.
19:41You tell me.
19:43We cannot influence the President.
19:45He is the head of such a big party.
19:47He is the President of Pakistan.
19:48It is his decision.
19:49We cannot convince him.
19:51I would like to respond to one thing.
19:52Yes, Kamran sir.
19:53I would like to respond to what Afnaan said and what the Senator said.
19:57Yes, Kamran sir. Very quickly.
19:58There is a statement by the Prime Minister.
20:03He was in the Cabinet that day.
20:05But today there is a different statement.
20:08He had a different stance in October.
20:11And now there is a statement.
20:13So you are saying that there is a change.
20:15There is no change.
20:17But thank you very much, Senator Kamran sir.
20:19Time is up.
20:20Thank you, Tahira Shafiq for joining me in the program.
20:22Senator Afnaan, thank you very much for joining me in the program as well.
20:24We will go to the break after the break.
20:26What is happening between Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf?
20:28Who is speaking the truth?
20:29Who is lying?
20:30We will talk about this after the break.
20:33Welcome back after the break.
20:34Ali Muhammad Khan sir is with us.
20:36He is the leader of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
20:38Thank you very much for joining us, Ali sir.
20:40On one hand, there is a movement on social media against the leaders of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
20:45That there is no trust in them.
20:48Workers also raise questions in the matter of D-Chalk.
20:53That where has this leadership gone?
20:55On the other hand, the one who is trusted.
20:57Now trust can be seen rising from there as well.
20:59Bushra Bibi Sahiba says,
21:01I was alone till midnight.
21:05I have shown that in my program as well.
21:07She was changing her car at 11.57 pm.
21:10But listen to what she said.
21:12I am not a woman who runs away.
21:14I can't leave those who have left for Khan.
21:18No one knew which car was mine.
21:20I was alone in my car till 12.30 pm at D-Chalk.
21:24After that, many cars came.
21:26They came after that because D-Chalk was being forced to vacate.
21:29Bibi did not move from there because Khan did not tell her to move.
21:32I told everyone not to leave me alone.
21:34But everyone left me alone.
21:36And I was all alone there.
21:39Now after this, Ali Ameen Gandapur's stance has come on this.
21:43Who was present with Bushra Bibi like a shadow.
21:47And he also took Mansera with him.
21:50Listen to what he is saying.
21:52I was with Bushra Bibi full time.
21:54I was with her from there till the end.
21:56I did everything to bring her from there.
21:58Now apart from that, if she has an opinion about someone else.
22:00Then this is her personal opinion.
22:02You can ask this question to her.
22:04She can give you her personal opinion.
22:06Ali Maulana Khan, what is happening?
22:08Social media is not trusting the leaders of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
22:14It was trusting Bushra Bibi.
22:16What Bushra Bibi said was proved wrong.
22:18And on the basis of evidence,
22:20Ali Ameen Gandapur is also saying that I was with her.
22:24Which is the truth and which is a lie?
22:26This is a strange situation.
22:30Thank you very much for calling me.
22:32In the name of Allah.
22:38As a policy, as a principle,
22:42I do not comment on the former first lady, Bushra Bibi.
22:46It is very respectable.
22:48Because she is the wife of our leader.
22:50But I will say only this much.
22:54As far as I know,
22:56Mr. Gandapur briefed the political committee on this.
23:02From his side.
23:04Mr. Gandapur was present there.
23:06From beginning to end.
23:08He also told the political committee that
23:10As a minister,
23:12And as an old employee of Imran Khan,
23:16And as a Pashtun,
23:18These big things are seen on our side.
23:22He said it was my responsibility.
23:24In my presence, nothing should happen to Bibi Sahiba.
23:26And he said that he fulfilled his responsibility.
23:30He took her with him with respect.
23:34I will not comment on the rest of his comments.
23:38The most important thing for me is that
23:42How many martyrs have been killed?
23:46A proper investigation should be launched on it.
23:48Mr. Ali, I also come to that.
23:50Because Mr. Khan's family,
23:52Mr. Aleema Khan and Barrister Gauhar,
23:54There has also been a discussion on it.
23:56And his acceptance has come from Mr. Aleema Khan.
24:00But now when it has come to light that
24:02Bushra Bibi Sahiba has taken a wrong statement on this matter.
24:04And the leaders,
24:06PTI's leader,
24:08Mr. Ali Ameen Gandapur is right.
24:10Bushra Bibi is wrong.
24:12So now what is the guarantee that
24:14Imran Khan has said that you go to Sangjani.
24:16And Bushra Bibi has said,
24:18Go to D-Chowk.
24:20There was no wrong statement there.
24:22What are the guarantees for that?
24:26I think we should not get involved in such things.
24:28That time has passed.
24:30Now we should move forward.
24:32Two things are very important.
24:34As a Pakistani,
24:36As a Muslim,
24:38It is a matter of great concern for me.
24:42My relationship with the Jamaat,
24:44With Tariq-e-Insaf,
24:46As a Pakistani,
24:48I am very sad that
24:50Political workers from my country
24:52come to D-Chowk.
24:54Whether you listen to them or not,
24:56It is the choice of the government.
24:58You don't listen.
25:00None of the four demands should be listened to.
25:02This injustice that has happened,
25:04In the beginning, some figures came.
25:06More than 100 people spoke.
25:0812 figures are with our Jamaat.
25:10Mr. Gohar says that the credibility has come.
25:12If more evidence comes,
25:14It will be destroyed.
25:16I will come to this topic.
25:18We are not going to leave that alone.
25:20My question is that
25:22D-Chowk is not an old matter.
25:24It is not going to move forward.
25:26You are talking about the lives of 12 workers.
25:28It happened on this basis.
25:30It would not have happened in Sangjani.
25:32It would not have happened anywhere else.
25:34The president of Belarus has come here.
25:36D-Chowk has become a sensitive area.
25:38To bring it here,
25:40This is a very serious thing.
25:42The party is also introspecting.
25:44Is there any introspection going on?
25:46Within the party?
25:48Who will be allowed to intervene in politics?
25:50The family is in its place.
25:52Emotions and feelings are in their place.
25:54But politics is politics.
25:56And politics is in its place.
26:02You are intermingling these two things.
26:06The internal matter of the party was
26:08Mr. Khan's direction
26:10Mr. Khan's direction
26:12through Barrister Gohar
26:14Mr. Gohar is the chairman.
26:16Mr. Khan has made him the chairman.
26:18No one among us has made him.
26:20He is the junior among all of us.
26:22He is a lawyer.
26:24But he is the junior among all of us.
26:26But we respect him because
26:28Mr. Khan has made him the chairman.
26:30Through him, he gave us this information
26:32to the political committee.
26:34On 26 November,
26:36when the operation was in the night,
26:38permission to go to Sanjani. Now, it is a big debate whether to go to D-Chowk or not.
26:50But my basic stance on this is that if Sanjani does not stop and D-Chowk is also allowed,
26:56then the day before yesterday, I spoke outside Adyala Jail about whether D-Chowk is more
27:06sacred than D-Chowk, that no one can come there. We have come. It was a mistake.
27:11The law is broken. Let it be broken. Look, you have forced excessive use of force.
27:16You should not have done it. Why should someone go from here?
27:20You cannot throw anything away by talking about the past.
27:22You will have to give it to Mr. Shahbaz Sharif in the coming times.
27:25Look, he is the Prime Minister. He just can't jerk it off. He just can't say that...
27:29That's exactly what I am saying. I am also asking the government, Mr. Ali,
27:32that you cannot throw this away and move forward.
27:35That's why I am also asking you that what happened cannot be thrown away and moved forward.
27:40PGI has to introspect about this.
27:42Because today, Ms. Aleema Khan said that the government said that you should sit in Sanjani.
27:46We will release Mr. Imran Khan in a few days.
27:49If Ms. Aleema Khan's statement is correct, then for the release of Mr. Imran Khan,
27:54the protest that Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf was going to protest,
27:58was being kept in a plate.
28:00If Ms. Aleema Khan is correct, then shouldn't Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf have taken that offer immediately?
28:10Look, that's why the emphasis was on Sanjani.
28:14In my opinion, I have also told this to Gauhar bhai.
28:19I have also told Mr. Barrister.
28:22I am grateful to him.
28:25We say something harsh, he doesn't mind.
28:28God has given him courage.
28:30I have told him as well.
28:32Because 25th November, these dates are very important.
28:36Anika Bibi, if you keep in mind the dates.
28:3922nd November, two days before the protest,
28:43on the direction of the political committee,
28:47five people, me, Sardar Khosla, Mr. Barrister Gauhar,
28:51Mr. Salman Akram Raja and Mr. Rauf Hasan,
28:55we went to meet Mr. Khan to talk to him.
28:59If there is a government issue and Mr. Khan's release is possible,
29:04if there is such a thing, then don't postpone the protest,
29:08but on hold it for a week or a day.
29:11Or if there is a maximum, then sit in the vicinity of Islamabad.
29:15Why didn't you let us meet?
29:17Someone knew why we were coming.
29:19Maybe someone wanted this to happen.
29:21I am talking very harshly.
29:23Otherwise, why didn't you let us five people meet?
29:26We wanted the issue to be resolved by discussion.
29:29Our goal is Mr. Imran Khan's release.
29:31Our goal is the release of the prisoners.
29:33Our goal is the return of the mandate.
29:35The protest is not the goal.
29:37The protest is a means to an end.
29:40What is that?
29:41That Khan should be released.
29:43Why didn't you let us meet?
29:45On the 25th, when the protest was in full swing,
29:48it was very difficult for me to reach Diyala Jinn.
29:50There was no Assam.
29:51I had to bring it to Jyotish.
29:52I came out of the police station.
29:54Two of our people were allowed.
29:56I was still not allowed.
29:58That day, Mr. Imran Khan told Mr. Gauhar to sit in the vicinity.
30:02The next day, after the protest, I told him that
30:05if you had done the press talk that day,
30:07it would have been clear.
30:09There was no need to go after anyone.
30:11Mr. Ali Muhammad Khan made it very clear that
30:13this message had already come.
30:15That Mr. Imran Khan will be released.
30:17I am saying it again and again.
30:19If he is right, then...
30:21I have one more question.
30:23Mr. Ali Muhammad Khan, please do it with me.
30:25You have started after the civil affirmation.
30:27You have said this a couple of times.
30:29Let me just say one thing.
30:32I am a political worker of this Jamaat.
30:35And I am not from today.
30:37It's been a while.
30:38As a policy family member,
30:40I rarely comment on anything in public.
30:42I have a lot of respect for him.
30:44Especially for Ms. Aleema.
30:46She has known him since 2015-16.
30:48When she came to Namal for Mardaan,
30:50I was with her in fundraising.
30:52She is like an elder sister to me.
30:54She is very respectable.
30:56I don't comment on her.
30:58But this is now in the public domain.
31:00That is why I am talking about it.
31:02Mr. Gauhar told me that
31:04if you want to sit with me, then sit.
31:06There is no need to lie to me.
31:08You have said all these things.
31:10You have said that you want to talk about it.
31:12I will say it again.
31:14The real thing is that
31:16whether Sanjani sat or D-Chowk,
31:18was it right to fire a bullet?
31:20Every action,
31:22Newton's law,
31:24every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
31:26Whether it should have been fired or not,
31:28it should not have been fired in any form.
31:30And the government is saying that it has not been fired.
31:32So it's your word versus the government's word.
31:34The question is that
31:36now we are talking about civil disobedience.
31:38Mr. Ali Mohammad,
31:40listen to me.
31:42I understand your point.
31:44I understand your point.
31:46Not a single soul
31:48should have gone
31:50to the PTI,
31:52to the rangers, to the police.
31:54Everyone's life is precious.
31:56And everyone is their own child.
31:58Whether it is PTI or the law enforcement agency.
32:00My question is about civil disobedience.
32:02Now I have heard,
32:04and I have spoken to many PTI leaders off the record,
32:06PTI leaders
32:08do not consider civil disobedience
32:10to be practical.
32:12Do you think
32:14that after two weeks,
32:16on the 14th,
32:18there will be an implementation
32:20on the civil disobedience call?
32:24Look, one thing is this.
32:26Our party has
32:28two or three big forums.
32:30One is the core committee, which is the biggest forum.
32:32The other is the political committee,
32:34which is its sub-committee.
32:36This is a parliamentary party,
32:38which has MNAs and senators.
32:40My colleagues are witnesses to this.
32:42Please ask them.
32:44In front of Mr. Khan
32:46and within the party,
32:48I openly give my opinion.
32:50Because I understand
32:52that there can be no greater hypocrisy
32:54than not telling your leader
32:56what you think is good for him and the party.
32:58These discussions are held
33:00in the internal forums of the party,
33:02not in the public domain.
33:04So are you saying that civil disobedience
33:06is really not right?
33:08No.
33:10There has been a discussion on this.
33:12The final decision of Mr. Imran Khan
33:14will be obeyed by the party.
33:16What do majority party leaders think, Mr. Ali?
33:18Is it right or wrong?
33:20Look, it is not necessary to say that here.
33:22There is discussion in the forums of the party.
33:24I think
33:26it is a sign of a living party
33:28that things are discussed there.
33:30There should be a pro and contra debate
33:32about what should be done and what should not be done.
33:34Because at the end of the day,
33:36everyone's wish is the same.
33:38That the party should be better
33:40and Mr. Khan should be released.
33:42Everyone's thinking can be different
33:44for that.
33:46This is not a people party
33:48where there is a dictation.
33:50Everyone has their own opinion.
33:52In the end, when the decision is made,
33:54then the party toes that line.
33:56Look, I want to talk about the question
33:58you asked about it.
34:00Look, we are all talking about
34:02civil disobedience
34:04in the media.
34:06No one is talking about it.
34:08That is later.
34:10Mr. Khan has made a committee
34:12for dialogue.
34:14Why is he not talking about it?
34:16Unfortunately, time is up.
34:18But we will discuss on another occasion.
34:20Thank you very much for joining me in the program.
34:22After the break, Mr. Kaira will be with us.
34:28Welcome back after the break.
34:30Mr. Kaira is a senior member of the Pakistan People's Party.
34:32Mr. Kaira, thank you very much for joining me in the program.
34:34Mr. Kaira, I have heard
34:36that the leaders of the Pakistan People's Party
34:38in Punjab and KPK
34:40are pressurizing their top tier leadership
34:42i.e. Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
34:44to take a strict stance
34:46against the government.
34:48Mr. Dar and Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
34:50met today.
34:52Mr. Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
34:54told Mr. Dar that he is under pressure
34:56from the party to get things rolling.
34:58Is it true
35:00that the Pakistan People's Party
35:02is being pressurized
35:04by the government
35:06by the government
35:08i.e. PMLN?
35:12Look,
35:14the structure of the People's Party
35:16is not that it will put
35:18any unlawful pressure on the government.
35:20But anyway,
35:22there is a pressure on the chairman
35:24that when the government
35:26was formed,
35:28with the permission of the CEC,
35:30we decided
35:32a power sharing formula
35:34with Mr. Muslim
35:36which was written in the form of an agreement
35:38of 25 points.
35:40This is not being implemented properly.
35:42Mr. Bilawal and many of our friends
35:44have repeatedly expressed
35:46their disapproval of this.
35:48We have met with Mr. Azam,
35:50his committees,
35:52the Chief Minister of Punjab,
35:54and his committees.
35:56But our demands are not being fulfilled.
35:58Those promises,
36:00those agreements that have been written
36:02before the disappearance of the government,
36:04when the pressure of the People's Party
36:06will come,
36:08when there will be chaos,
36:10when there will be problems of workers,
36:12then the leadership will feel the heat,
36:14but it should not be said
36:16that there has been
36:18such pressure on them.
36:20That is not the case,
36:22but it is a natural issue
36:24that their workers ask them.
36:26We ask them.
36:28The rest of the workers ask them
36:30that when you had made an agreement,
36:32it is not being implemented.
36:34And a government
36:36that is with our votes,
36:38we are its allies,
36:40but we are not a part of the government.
36:42But it is standing with our votes.
36:44A community is getting its support
36:46and our issues are not being solved.
36:48And these are fixed issues.
36:50We are not saying anything new.
36:52So there is a pressure on it.
36:54The pressure, the heat you are talking about,
36:56will this heat melt the iron
36:58with which the Pakistan People's Party
37:00and PMLN are intertwined
37:02at this time?
37:04Or are they connected at this time?
37:06Will it be enough to melt the iron?
37:08No, it will not happen at all.
37:10The chairman himself
37:12expressed that
37:14when he said this,
37:16he complained about it.
37:18So a complaint is made
37:20from a friend.
37:22He made it very clear
37:24that there is no moment of anger.
37:26And the People's Party understands
37:28what it means.
37:30Mr. Bilawal understands
37:32that the country is currently
37:34in a state of extreme tension.
37:36The People's Party
37:38does not want to raise any
37:40judicial issue on its political issues.
37:42But at the same time,
37:44we are also asking the government
37:46to follow the agreements
37:48that have been made with us.
37:50Or the development
37:52that is going to happen
37:54is a development program.
37:56It is a project of the PSDP.
37:58It is a water fountain.
38:00Or there are other legislations.
38:02We should take care of that.
38:04So, Mr. Khaira,
38:06you are complaining to the PMLN.
38:08On the other hand,
38:10Maulana Fazlur Rehman
38:12has directly complained to President Asif Zardari
38:14that you were present,
38:16the Prime Minister was present,
38:18we made agreements.
38:20On one hand, the People's Party says
38:22that the PMLN has not fulfilled our agreements.
38:24On the other hand, Maulana Fazlur Rehman
38:26is saying that Mr. Zardari has not
38:28fulfilled the agreements
38:30and promises made to him.
38:32If he complains to the PMLN,
38:34Mr. Zardari,
38:36then the question of the government
38:38and the People's Party
38:40becomes less, Mr. Khaira.
38:42This complaint of Maulana Fazlur Rehman
38:44is justified in its place.
38:46When the 26th amendment was being implemented,
38:48some things were agreed upon.
38:50That this will be a regular amendment,
38:52it will have these clauses
38:54and then there will be some subordinate
38:56legislation,
38:58which also had a crack
39:00and in the form of a crack,
39:02that act was passed.
39:04Now some questions have been raised on it
39:06and this complaint of his
39:08is justified.
39:10That is why Bilawal Sahib
39:12met Maulana Fazlur Rehman
39:14a few days ago
39:16and he expressed this very strongly
39:18that we have made agreements
39:20with you,
39:22we have made promises,
39:24we have given our word,
39:26we are political people,
39:28the bill has been presented
39:30by us,
39:32we have made that bill after
39:34removing our objections,
39:36we are standing with it,
39:38it should be a giant sitting,
39:40if it comes in it or somewhere else.
39:42So what happened, Mr. Khaira,
39:44that this agreement was made,
39:46the promise was made,
39:48but what happened,
39:50what obstacles came in between?
39:52See, there are some things
39:54that do not need to be mentioned,
39:56that they should be settled
39:58without being discussed.
40:00But the People's Party
40:02in this matter,
40:04with Maulana Fazlur Rehman,
40:06when Bilawal Sahib promised,
40:08he stood on his tongue
40:10and assured that we are with you
40:12and according to my information,
40:14Maulana Fazlur Rehman
40:16from the government also
40:18said this.
40:20Bilawal Bhutto Zardari
40:22makes it clear
40:24I don't understand, Mr. Khaira, why?
40:26You are right.
40:28I can't differ from this.
40:30But the kind of
40:32conditions in our country,
40:34such situations arise.
40:36This is unfortunate.
40:38It should not happen.
40:40When the National Assembly
40:42and the Senate passed this bill,
40:44then this bill should have been through.
40:46But if any questions arise on this,
40:48then we are firm on our commitment.
40:50Interesting.
40:52In a growing and establishing democracy,
40:54such issues,
40:56such questions,
40:58such problems keep arising.
41:00Another question, Mr. Khaira,
41:02has arisen in this growing democracy
41:04which is making noise
41:06is that Mr. Fawad Chaudhary says
41:08that there is one way
41:10to get this country out of this situation,
41:12the national government.
41:14Do you think that
41:16this can be thought about or not?
41:18The question is that
41:20in such a polarized environment,
41:22is it possible
41:24that all the Jamaats
41:26get together on one platform
41:28and one Jamaat gets the lead
41:30and that Jamaat
41:32takes forward its policy
41:34and the other Jamaats
41:36in the upcoming elections,
41:38will they face it?
41:40Will they tolerate it?
41:42Will they accept it?
41:44I don't think it is possible.
41:46It is very old.
41:48This is the situation in Delhi.
41:50There is no one near Delhi.
41:52Mr. Khaira, thank you very much
41:54for joining me in the program.
41:56I will now take the program to a close.
41:58I will now take the program to a close.