Bob Ryan and Gary Tanguay return to discuss the worst loss of the season for the Celtics so far, where they refused to play consistent defense against the Chicago Bulls. Their conversation then turns to the NBA Hall of Fame Ballot, which is dominated by great women of the game. Finally, they remember Dick van Arsdale, who passed away this week.
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SportsTranscript
00:00Okay, folks, it's that time, Bob Ryan, Gary Tanguy, pod brought to you by Price Picks,
00:25the exclusive Daily Fantasy partner of the CLNS Media Network. Pick more, pick less with
00:29Price Picks. Bob Ryan, venturing into the garden to see the Celtics and the Bulls. Just
00:36your thoughts on the whole shebang.
00:40Well, the overview from a neutral standpoint, if I had no stake in the game, I had no dog
00:49in the hunt, is that it's a quintessential modern NBA game in which the teams took more
00:57threes than twos and substantially more. And the Boston Celtics took 56 threes and 41 twos,
01:10making only 14 of those 56 for an abysmal 25% shooting percentage. The Bulls took 52
01:19threes and 42 twos. They made 19 of theirs for a 36-35. Both were substantially over
01:3050% in the twos. The Celtics were 24 for 41 and the Bulls were 23 for 42. But of course,
01:38it's a three-point world. Okay, so that's just an observation about the nature of the game.
01:45The Celtics, at one point, I know they were 11 for 47. They were off all night. And you know
01:52who got them? The only way I hope was, of course, Pritchard came off the bench and hit a couple
01:57early on. Anyway, okay. But the thing that disturbed me about the game, because that's
02:03going to happen. They're going to have nights still left when they're going to shoot ridiculously
02:08good from the floor, as they did opening night. But these other nights are going to happen.
02:14And you have to find another way to win. And in fact, they did go inside to Prisingis
02:21with effectiveness. But the rest of it was all one-on-one trying to get to the hoop.
02:26I'm still waiting to see a play, Gary. I don't recognize, I don't see anything that looks like
02:30a play. Yeah. That's when they get in trouble, Bob. We know that. Well, okay. Now, however,
02:38that wasn't the most disturbing thing. I can accept that that's the way of the world of the NBA.
02:42You make them, you miss them. Doc, long ago when he was here, called it a make-miss league. I don't
02:49know if he gets credit for that. But somebody has to get credit for calling it a make-miss league.
02:54But if you're going to play that way on offense, you better get your butt back on defense.
03:00Right. And the thing that annoyed me
03:02last night as a fan and an observer, the Celtics' transition defense was horse bleep all night long.
03:10And then their half-court defense against drives to the hoop was very mediocre.
03:18I don't know. Unfortunately, nobody annotated for us how many layups they made. But I'm telling you,
03:24they had a lot of layups and most of them were highly unforgivable. And that's why,
03:31that as much as any other reasons why they lost the game. Next thing is offensive rebounding. Once
03:37again, I don't have the annotation of how many second chance three-pointers they had, but they
03:42had at least two and maybe more. And of course, long ago, Rick Pitino back 30 years ago identified
03:49that the most fruitful time for a three-point shot is on an offensive rebound. And everybody's
03:55collapsed and the guy drifts out. Okay. Well, they gave up some very damaging, hurtful, including a
04:01third chance. I remember once offensive rebounding three. So those two things, if they got back on
04:08defense and cleaned up the boards, they still could have won that game despite their abysmal
04:12three-point shooting. But now we get to the thing that there's no rational defense for.
04:20It's a three-point game. They're down by three. I don't know how much time was left, but very much
04:24matter, five minutes, whatever. It doesn't matter. And Peyton Pritchard, who did it at least twice
04:31last night, created a wonderful opportunity with hustle and scrap and got a jump ball. And before
04:39they threw the ball up, and he was going to lose the tap because he's 6'1", he's going to lose it
04:43anyway. But still, Tony Brothers tees up Jalen Brown. Now, what was he pitching about? I don't
04:54know because there was no foul committed on Pritchard. So don't give me that. I don't know
05:00what he was pitching about. He gets a tee. So that Zach Levine goes down the other end of the
05:05floor and makes the one point. They come back, somewhere in the midst of here, another tee,
05:13another tee. And I forget the sequence. Missoula had one, and he had to be restrained by Sam
05:20Cassell from rushing the floor. He was really hot. Levine hits the free throw. And then what do you
05:29think's the worst case scenario? They got a three, five-point possession. The game goes from
05:33three to eight without changing the ball. And that was the game. They never dug out of that hole.
05:40And then there was another tee on Tatum along the way. So they had three tees in the last five
05:46minutes in a close game. It's so disappointing when you see that because obviously it's frustration,
05:54but what it looks like is poor sportsmanship. And it looks like it's class. I mean, common
06:00sense. I mean, these are the defending champions. It's just, it was awful. It was a very blah night,
06:06you know, obviously a very blah night. And I got up, headed to the elevator. I was up in the halo
06:12with about 10 seconds to go as we're dribbling out the clock. But then when the people came
06:17to that stage at the end of the game, apparently at the end of the game, Missoula was ready to go
06:21after the Tony brothers again, and they had to restrain him. Nice to know he's got a pulse.
06:26That's good. But you know, an emotion, there's an emotion. Yeah. I mean, when your team,
06:31let's break this down in a couple of ways here, Bob. First of all,
06:37of the three events that you just mentioned, I'll tell you which one bothers me the most,
06:44but which one bothers you the most looking ahead for the team? All right. I'm going to dismiss the
06:52technical thing as a, you know, aberration. They'll recognize the stupidity. It happens,
06:58right. I will be very surprised if we see anything like that at a crucial point of the game ever
07:04again this year. I agree. I'm with you on that. This will be brought up and they'll know we can't
07:11do that. And if they really look, think about it, you know, you can say that costs them the game
07:16because it costs them any chance. You know, they never dug out of that hole. It's that transition
07:21defense that bothers me that, you know, that there was no, there's no excuse for that. And
07:28I'm sorry. And that's effort. That's concentration. That's not good. You know, offensive
07:34rebounding, sometimes it's lucky offense, long rebounds and all, but that wasn't the case.
07:39They're almost a tie, but if I had to pick one, it would be the transition defense.
07:43And because that game was still winnable as bad as they were, as poorly as they were shooting.
07:48They did have at least one late, you know, relatively late three-point lead. And that
07:54game was totally winnable. And, but that I'd love to know the numbers, but there were way too many.
08:00Well, defense is effort. And who, Oh God, who set it for the Knicks? Efforts are funny things.
08:07Sometimes you have it. Sometimes you don't. I got to Google it, but you know, that's just it. I
08:13mean, if there are times where you're going to not, obviously you're not going to make shots.
08:19You may lose your composure for whatever reason you have in a bad day, but defense is effort.
08:25The thing that worries me that I'll bring up is it's not the fact that they were missing so many
08:30threes is that they continue to shoot it. Well, that's who they are now, but I know,
08:36but correct me if I'm wrong, correct me if I'm wrong. During the playoffs last year,
08:43and I'd have to look at the numbers. I don't remember them being so dependent on the three.
08:48I remember Tatum going to the basket or Brown going to the basket. I don't remember it being
08:53this egregious. Yeah. Well, I'd have to look at the numbers. Maybe that's in my own mind.
09:00And they did throw the ball in the proscenius a couple of times to score.
09:03And that's what I want to see more of. Maybe a few more of those would have been enough.
09:08If you're five for 25 from three, it's time to start going to the basket.
09:12It's at 25% last night. That's ridiculous. So that's my concern is it's, I know what you're
09:18saying about the D, guys have a bad night. You can always play good defense. You can control that
09:26unless you're physically ill. But going to the well with the threes
09:30is if you start, you know, that's the crazy thing about it, though, with the three point
09:35shot or with any offense, if you force it, it never works. If you go to the other game
09:41and if you go and play inside out, then I'm telling you every time the ball is going to
09:47bounce out to the perimeter, somebody is going to make a three and they get rolling.
09:51If you keep going to the well, it's not going to work. It's when you go away,
09:56you try other stuff and then it just organically comes back. That's what I think.
10:01Now, another takeaway from the game, they had no answer for Zach Levine,
10:06who had 36 points, well earned 36 points.
10:10How do you rank him, Bob?
10:12Well, that's what I'm bringing up here. I'm very curious. He's now in year number
10:1711. Okay. He came in at age 19 after one year at UCLA and I picked up on him at UCLA.
10:29I remember that.
10:30This kid's good. And I remember thinking at the time, just for him, I identified it was something
10:35I said, kid, don't come out. At least stay another year. But he did. And he came out.
10:43Zach Levine is 29 years old now. He's a career 20 point a game guy under the radar.
10:54The rear 51% shooter. He's a career 38% three-point shooter. He's a two-time all-star.
11:01Of course, to some people, all they know about him, he's a two-time slam dunk champion. He
11:06went back to back at one point. My point is this though. Do you have any clue what the knock is,
11:14if there's a knock, and why is he always the subject of endless trade discussion?
11:20Is it the salary? Because he does get 43 million.
11:23Yeah, but I'd have to look at the numbers. 43 million doesn't-
11:27What's the knock on him? I don't know.
11:30I think he's more than a tweener. I think he's one of those guys
11:41that if you're looking to make a deal, I don't think people view him as someone who's going to
11:49win you a championship. But because of the numbers and because he is a very good player,
11:55he can make a deal much more palatable.
12:00Well, he is, in fact, right. He is the best player on this team.
12:04Right. He's a great player on a mediocre team.
12:0813 and 16 team. They have been in that rut for a few years now, and he's been the best player.
12:15I see that argument. What an asset, if you could be trying to think of a good analogy.
12:22I won't say Brown to Tatum, no. But some team where he'd be the number two guy,
12:30giving him 20 points a game. Right.
12:32Yeah. Okay. Anyway, he was great last night, and he wasn't just making open threes.
12:37He made contested threes, open threes. He had a wonderful game. If you knew nothing about him,
12:44you'd say, wow, that guy. Oh, who's that guy? And I'm looking at him, I'm saying, wow,
12:49you know, he is pretty good. So, yeah. Okay. So, that's the other takeaway. Now,
12:55what's interesting here, Gary, is that, guess who the next opponent is?
13:01I haven't even looked. We're at Chicago, Saturday night.
13:03Oh, they're back. Okay. That's one of those deals.
13:06Well, they're watching. We're going to- Well, yeah. I mean, they should go out,
13:09listen, then they should go out and spank them. I mean, they should go out and put the wood to them.
13:15They should do it and get back on defense. So, that's my takeaway there. Okay.
13:20All right, Bob, before we get to the Hall of Fame discussion, and we do want to talk about
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14:34look, Saturday night, Bob just mentioned it. Celts on the road. You're going to be looking
14:38for vengeance against Chicago. You're going to be looking for, I think, the overs, if you will,
14:44or the moors. I mean, will Chase the Tatum get more than 25? Will Jalen Brown get less than a
14:49technical? Or more than 10 rebounds? Those are the things you're going to look for coming up
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15:04first $5 lineup. PrizePix, run your game. Okay, Bob, the Hall of Fame, and maybe it's just because
15:14I'm getting older, but the Hall of Fame nominees are out. And let me just run them down here.
15:21Amari Stoudemire, Maya Moore, Dwight Howard, Marc Gasol, Sylvia Foles, Mark Few, Billy Donovan,
15:28Lisa Bluter, Sue Bird, Mickey Arison, owner of the Miami Heat, and Carmelo Anthony.
15:37None of the male players blow me away here, pal. What about you? Okay, Carmelo will get it. He
15:46scored 28,889 points in his career. That's a lot. He was a 10-time All-Star. He was an offensive
15:56machine. He was a maligned player for defense and for ball hogging, no question. He played on six
16:02teams, which tells you something. But still, he was an Olympian. And I wouldn't deny him.
16:14I don't hold anything against him at all. And also, he deserves credit for a wonderful year
16:22at Syracuse freshman year, leads them to the national championship,
16:26and has become a significant donor to the program. Significant. And he's thanked Syracuse in a very
16:35important way with his checkbook for that opportunity. I'm not a big fan of his, but I'm
16:40not, I don't hate him or anything. I think he has limitations. But all in all, I was very surprised
16:47if he doesn't walk in. Okay, I expect him to get in. However, Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard's
16:58credentials, if you never saw him play, you'd say, well, he's going to get in. He's got to get in.
17:02How can you deny a guy eight-time All-Star, three-time defensive player of the year? You know,
17:08how are you going to, I mean, the guy must have been really something, huh? Dwight Howard's the
17:12biggest piece of bleep. Bob, what happened with him? Because I remember, I even sat down when he
17:18would come to the Garden. He was so nice. I'd do one-on-one interviews with the guy. He'd crack
17:23jokes. And I thought, you know, he's gifted, and he's going to get better. And he just never
17:30blossomed into the player I thought he would be. He didn't have a game, offensively. He did not
17:35have a game. Well, he didn't work at it. He didn't. Of course he could have, and he didn't.
17:40He spent his summers working on moves. He should have hired Kima Lajuan to show him how to play
17:46low post and teach him some footwork and hire a shooting coach. He was content with who he was.
17:54Well, guess what, folks? He wound up playing for one, two, three, four, five, six teams,
18:02and every time along they found out, we don't need this guy. You don't win with this guy.
18:07He just was not serious. He wasn't serious. He was a big clown, and he paid for his blocking
18:16shots. That's what he did. He's very good at that. Fine. I'll give him credit for that.
18:19But I once said, and I'll repeat it right here, if I'm playing for my life tonight,
18:24I'd rather play four-on-five than have Howard be my center.
18:28Wow.
18:29So I will be quasi-apoplectic if he gets in.
18:39What do you think? I don't think he's going to get in, but I always loved the game of Omari
18:43Stoudemire. It just didn't click in New York. I think he had some health problems,
18:48but I did enjoy watching him.
18:51When he came up, he had a low post game, and he was a good rebounder, and I thought he should
18:57have just stuck to that game. But of course, the game today, he's talking to 20 years now,
19:04and he tried to branch out, and he wasn't that great a scorer. But I think he's the next level.
19:12I'll be real surprised. I don't think he should be a Hall of Famer, no.
19:16Not that any of us are the experts in this game, but Maya Moore and Sue Bird had pretty good
19:20careers.
19:21Maya Moore, they don't get in. And also, this is going to be interesting because there's a cult
19:27following for Sylvia Fowles as a human being, as well as a player. She's an immensely popular
19:33player and person. And Shemeika Hulse-Claw, go look her up. They're all worthy, five of them.
19:39I don't know if five women will get in at once. I doubt it. If only one gets in,
19:44for me, I'm a big Sue Bird fan. I have been since she was in UConn.
19:49But Maya Moore was a tremendous, tremendous player. And I think that if you put a pistol to
19:54Geno's head, name your best one ever, and he probably wouldn't do it. But I wouldn't be
20:01surprised if he would have said Maya Moore. But she's really good.
20:06I mean, I know. Picking the best UConn women's player of all time, good luck.
20:11It's like picking the best Celtic of all time.
20:13Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. How are you going to do that? I do think, I do think,
20:19Billy Donovan should get in.
20:21Okay, but does two NCAA championships do it for you? Is that it?
20:25He's the last guy to do it.
20:27Yes, he is. He is.
20:29Listen, now the NBA, look, it hasn't worked out in the NBA for him. But I'm just a fan.
20:36I loved him at Providence when he played. I thought he was a great college coach.
20:42Um, the coaching and the pros is a whole...
20:47I'm not going to, the fact that he hasn't won a title or didn't win a title with OKC,
20:51I don't hold that against him. I think so much has to go right for you as an NBA coach.
20:56Like people, I'm sorry, I'm going to preach for a moment. People have got Doc Rivers ass,
21:00and I know Doc's your buddy. And I like him too. I think Doc has been unfairly criticized.
21:05I really do. Because he did a phenomenal job with the Celtics. And if Garnett stays healthy,
21:12they win multiple titles. He put that whole thing together with Mbutu and created that.
21:19Then you go to Los Angeles and you're dealing with an owner and all these different personalities.
21:25In Philadelphia, look, nobody can coach the Sixers. You know as well as I do. I mean,
21:31you could bring back Red Auerbach from the dead. He can't coach the Sixers. Nobody can coach that
21:37team. So like, I look at like Doc and I just feel like it's so damn hard to win an NBA title.
21:46So I feel Doc's getting a raw deal. I got off on a tangent. I would not prevent that from voting
21:53for Billy Donovan. I think he is, was a great college coach. Well, there's two crowns in
21:59NBA titles should speak for themselves in this regard. I think you're absolutely right.
22:04And I would be, I'm happy, I'm rooting for him too. It's a little story with him. When Rick
22:10Pitino got the Providence job, I went down and had lunch with him in Providence and we were talking
22:16about the roster. And he said, we got this Billy Donovan. And I told him he's got to lose 15 or
22:2320 pounds or he can't play for me. And this is after his sophomore year. He did. And we all
22:29know what happened. They go to the final four and Billy Donovan is, you know, taking advantage of
22:34the three point shot. That was the first year at a three point shot. But anyway, so I'll always
22:40remember that lunch with Pitino. This kid can't play for me. He's got to lose 20 pounds.
22:44I love that team. I absolutely, I loved that team. So Donovan to me is in. I mean,
22:52and he had guys, and remember,
22:57the three dudes, it was Al Horford, shoot, who were the other two guys that played?
23:03They stayed. They could have gone pro. They stayed.
23:05MR. KING JR.: It was Joachim Noah.
23:09MR. STEINER Oh yeah, Joachim Noah.
23:10MR. KING JR.: Oh wait, Brewer, Cory Brewer.
23:12MR. STEINER Cory Brewer. They stayed.
23:14MR. KING JR.: NBA players. They came back.
23:17MR. STEINER And they came back. Now,
23:20why did they come back, because of the coach? MR. KING JR.: Oh, no question. They were a very
23:25solid group, and they did come back for that reason, and they got it done. Yes, sir. Absolutely.
23:30MR. STEINER So he's in.
23:32MR. KING JR.: Now here's a name, Mark Few. He hasn't won a title yet, and they're in the mix
23:39again this year. But that record has got to be among the handful of greatest winning percentages
23:45of all time in college sports and college basketball. And he's been coaching now, it's up 25
23:50years. He took over in 2000, 2001, or 99, 2000, excuse me, after Gonzaga in 98, 99.
23:59MR. STEINER Right.
24:00MR. KING JR.: They're the team UConn beat in the final eight to get to the final four,
24:05Calhoun's first final four. And after that, the coach, Don Monson, he figured we ain't
24:10going any further here in Spokane, Washington. And when the boat docked in, pulled into the dock,
24:15he got on and went and took a, what job he took, I forget, he took a higher profile job. And it's
24:23never worked out, and he disappeared from sight. But Mark Few was his assistant, and here he is
24:2924 years later with a tremendous winning percentage. And it's going to be hard to deny him,
24:36I think. It really is. MR. STEINER
24:38Well, I mean, can you think of a better job, though? I mean, if you could stay out of school,
24:41fortunately, I mean, he's got the support, but if you can stay out of school like at
24:45Gonzaga for 25 years and get players, I mean, it doesn't happen anymore.
24:49MR. KING JR.: Now, rather, they established a European pipeline. They've had many good
24:53Europeans. And the funny thing is the most famous Gonzaga player of all,
24:58didn't, you know, predates him, that's Stockton, John Stockton.
25:01MR. STEINER Right.
25:02MR. KING JR.: Anyway, Mark Few, then that's...
25:07MR. STEINER What about, okay, let me ask you this.
25:11What about Mickey Arison in that? I mean, Miami Heat are an expansion team.
25:18MR. KING JR.: Yes.
25:18MR. STEINER And they do okay with Alonzo, and they won
25:22two titles, correct? I mean, the thing about the Heat is I look at, you know, he had the Alonzo
25:30Morning Group, then he had the Dwayne Wade Group, and then they brought in Jimmy Butler.
25:34MR. KING JR.: Yeah.
25:35MR. STEINER As an owner, it always seemed he was trying to win. Now they're looking to
25:41unload Butler, but... MR. KING JR.: Yeah, that's true.
25:44MR. STEINER I don't know if you know him or not, but...
25:46MR. KING JR.: I don't know. I knew the original group was the one guy, but I didn't know...
25:52It's interesting. I don't know. I don't have any strong feeling, but, you know, any...
25:54MR. STEINER Yeah, I mean, I just, you know, I just look at the Heat,
25:58and I just think that, you know, I remember when they, you know, when the expansion happened,
26:02we're like, the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic, boy, aren't those stupid names, you know?
26:07MR. KING JR.: But all in all, in terms of the, you know, the kind of players that the average fan
26:14is interested in, and people that don't understand the hopeful nature of the Hall,
26:21it's a down year. MR. STEINER Oh, no question.
26:23MR. KING JR.: Carmelo and Howard are the primary NBA names. And, you know, Doc was a one-time
26:30all-star and a nice player, but not an all-time great. And Doc also was a very, very good player
26:37in Marquette. But he doesn't have the playing profile that the other two have. I just, it's not
26:44going to be a glamorous year. But if you're a fan of the WNBA and of college, women's college
26:49basketball, this is a star-studded group of five. And so, you know, those people will be very
26:59interested to see who gets in, because they all belong in, quite frankly. And the other, by the
27:02way, Kaitlin Clark's coach is Lisa Bluter. That's who that is at Iowa, Kaitlin's coach.
27:12MR. STEINER Okay.
27:12MR. KING JR.: And we'll see about her. Anyway, they'll be announced in January,
27:19they pare down the nominees, and then in January they'll be announced. And then,
27:24I mean, the final nominees and the all-star, I mean, the Hall of Fame is always announced now
27:29at the final four, which is interesting given, you know, but remember, what people understand is
27:35the Hall of Fame in basketball isn't like the other three major halls of fame that you know,
27:41which are all exclusively professional, baseball, hockey, football. But basketball,
27:50the Hall of Fame was founded at a time when college basketball was equal or superior to
27:54the NBA in public esteem and knowledge. And all the beginning of the NBA, of the Hall of Fame,
28:02right up into the 70s was dominated by college and amateur basketball. And only after that did
28:09it become, so people think about it just as the NBA. You could get into, you know, I don't know
28:14the answer to this, but I want to research and find out the next time we meet, who's the last
28:19four-year college star who didn't become an NBA star to get into the Hall of Fame? That's a good
28:27question. It's been a while. And I want to see if we can guess or take a good stab at who it might
28:34be because it, and now no one's, it's never going to happen again because probably college players,
28:39nobody stays four years or barely three now with the NIL, you know, and all. So, but it's a
28:46different Hall of Fame. It's all-encompassing. It's Europe. Don't forget. It's women. It's
28:51Europe. They're all in one. Now, as a result, you know, the college people were upset that
28:56they were getting, losing out on coaches and stuff for a while. And we now have a college
29:01basketball Hall of Fame in Kansas City. And that's fine. And I'm glad there is, you know,
29:08and there is a college, there always has been a college, always for a long time has been a college
29:12football Hall of Fame, of course. Hockey, I believe is a United States Hall of Fame,
29:18right? As opposed to- I don't know, Bob. I don't know.
29:22You know, okay, fine. And, but, but that's why, so people understand that the NBA,
29:27it's not an NBA Hall of Fame. It's a, it's a worldwide basketball-
29:31Correct. Basketball Hall of Fame.
29:34What is it like, I know you, I know when I speak to media members,
29:38you've said this, Jackie McMullin has said this, you're not in the Hall of Fame.
29:43No. But you've been honored by the Hall of Fame.
29:45No, no. Well, this is, the NBA, this is modeled on, on Cooperstown. They've had for 50, 60 years,
29:53the Ford Prick Award for broadcasting. And the J.G. Taylor Spink Award for sports writing,
30:03for baseball writing. And, and that's, that's, you, you, you gotta, you don't have a full plaque,
30:10you know, you get on a list, you know, and, but you got, you get in, maybe they do have a
30:15plaque now. I've never, I'm not in that one. I don't, I don't think you do. But anyway,
30:19it's a separate ceremony, you know, and, and, and it, but I mean, and the same thing with
30:26the Nesmith Hall of Fame, the basketball. You have the Kirk Gowdy Award, and, and they had
30:34two branches, broadcast, every year they name a broadcaster and a writer. I was privileged to get
30:38in 1997. And that was funny, Gary, in terms of the whole honoring ceremony, etc. That's the year
30:45that all the bleep hit the fan for Marv Albert. Oh, did Marv get in with you?
30:51Yes. And, and I was so honored to go in with Marv, who I liked. And I, you know, in terms of,
30:55you know, he's a friendly guy. I know him. And he's the one of the two or three best basketball
31:01broadcasters ever. Okay. So in Springfield, because they wanted him to dodge the media,
31:08we had a, it was at a hotel, the award ceremony and a dinner. And they brought him in the kitchen
31:15entrance. I call it the Goodfellas entrance. The Goodfellas entrance. That's right. Yeah,
31:18Ray Liotta going through the back. And he did his thing. And then he went out the Goodfellas
31:24entrance. But I went in with Marv Albert in 1997. But I am a member of Kirk Gowdy, a recipient of
31:31the Kirk Gowdy Award. And people, you know, very graciously referred to me sometimes as the Hall
31:37of Famer. And if I'm there, I have to set the record straight. I don't want to go around people
31:42thinking I think I'm in the Hall of Fame. Well, Danny says the same thing about Cooper.
31:46As a contributor, somebody could be as a contributor, you know, as over and above,
31:52you know, there, but I don't know that anybody has been yet. But theoretically, you could be
31:56as a contributor. And so you mentioned Marv. I mean, look, I blame Fratello. But anyways,
32:05that's a side. That's a side note. Marv is one of the great, you know, everybody loved Marv
32:11up until that point. And then, you know, whatever. For you, who were the other two great
32:19basketball broadcasters? MR. FRATELLO Frankly, Chick Hearn. And, you know, Johnny, you know,
32:28Johnny most was a legend. And it was known, you know, it was known outside of Boston, you know,
32:35but Chick Hearn for sure, for sure. But for purebred basketball,
32:44nobody touched Marv, I don't think at all, any better than Marv. But certainly Chick was
32:50interesting. And Chick was great. Because Chick coined the phrase airball. And that was universally
32:58adopted. Too bad you can't get a patent on things like that. But he couldn't. But Marv is, you have
33:04to say who's the best, I'd say unequivocally Marv, for basketball. MR. FRATELLO Marv, yeah. Well,
33:09even, and then Marv, and then he'd go do hockey. And then Johnny, you know, to me,
33:16when you look at a guy like Johnny, that became, it was so parochial and so provincial.
33:24And that's what made it great about it. Now it's different, of course, where kind of everybody
33:30sounds the same, you know. MR. MCBRIDE There'll never be any more Johnny
33:33Moses. Number one, that voice would never get hired. MR. STEVENSON Yeah, it would never get
33:36hired. MR. MCBRIDE And, you know, it's funny,
33:39I've listened to the famous Havlicek sold the ball record from Bigwood Records back in 1965.
33:46And, you know, you hear Johnny's voice deepen, as a lot of people do over the years go on.
33:50And you hear the earlier Johnny Moses broadcast from the 53, 54. And it's a much higher,
33:56not much, but significantly higher pitch. MR. STEVENSON Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:58MR. MCBRIDE When you hear him call the ending of the first championship in 57, as opposed to
34:05hearing him call the ending of, you know, 81 or 84, it's a very different voice.
34:10MR. STEVENSON A lot of miles on that voice, Bob.
34:13MR. MCBRIDE A lot of English ovals. He imported English ovals. I guess they made
34:20camels look like, you know, filters. MR. STEVENSON He was something else, man.
34:24MR. MCBRIDE A name that just popped in my head, Dick Enberg,
34:29was a very good basketball announcer. MR. STEVENSON He was a very good,
34:32absolutely. MR. MCBRIDE
34:34He was a triffid all around. But if I had to have a broadcaster do a game for me, you know,
34:43one game, again, I'd take Mark. MR. STEVENSON All right, Bob, coming up next,
34:47we're going to remember Dick Van Arsdale. But first I have to tell you about game time.
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36:26What time is it? It is game time. Bob, I remember the 1976 NBA championship. We've talked about it
36:33at length as you were staying in enemy territory of Paul Westphal's house. I don't hold it against
36:38you. But I do remember Dick Van Arsdale and the wristband and the blonde hair playing for that
36:44team. And he and his twin brother played in the NBA. And you informed me today, sadly, he passed
36:49away. Dick, that is. For people who don't know, Van Arsdale, Tom and Dick were from Indianapolis.
36:55They went to Manuel High School in Indianapolis. They were 6'5", blonde haired, as someone said
37:00to me yesterday, Robert Redford, good looking. Right. And blonde haired, and they're very
37:05reminiscent of Robert Redford. And they went to Indiana University together.
37:12And in the course of their three-year varsity career, Tom had 1,252 points. Dick had 1,240.
37:24Tom had 12 more points. Tom had 723 rebounds, and Dick had 719 rebounds. Tom had four more
37:33rebounds in three years of play. They got to the NBA. In a 1965 draft, Dick was the 10th pick in
37:41the first round of the New York Knicks. Tom was the 11th pick of the first round for the Detroit
37:48Pistons. Dick went on to be put up for expansion by the Knicks and went to Phoenix, where he spent
37:57the rest of his career and his life in his life. Tom went to the Pistons and embarked on a career
38:05that took him to Detroit, to Philadelphia, and eventually to, excuse me, I said Detroit, to
38:14Cincinnati and Philadelphia, and then I'll get to the final story. In the course of their NBA career,
38:20Dick had, in 929 games, he had 842 more points. Tom, in the course of 921 games, had 135 more
38:33rebounds. They were the same player. They were exactly the same player. And I remember this,
38:40I remember writing a story about it, not a story, but referring to it, John Havlicek told me,
38:45and I remember this, they each had the same patented move, a spin move. You could not tell
38:51one from the other ever, okay. Did they ever switch? I'm going to get to that. They each
38:56made three All-Star games, okay. All right. Now, the one significant difference. Dick played 921
39:06games, career, and he played in 34 playoff games, including six in the 1976 finals against the
39:14Boston Celtics that you just alluded to. Tom, the same player, I'm telling you, played in 929
39:22games, two fewer, eight more, and played in zero playoff games. Now, he played for horseshit teams,
39:30of course, including the 76ers of 1972-73, who won a record low nine games, 9-73. However,
39:40at the end of the 75-76 season, when the Suns are coming off the finals appearance,
39:45losing to the Celtics, including the historic game, triple overtime game five, Tom gets his way
39:52to join brother Dick. They're going to play together in the NBA.
39:57But this is fine. One little problem. The Suns didn't make the playoffs that year. One year
40:03after going to the finals, which remember they did with a 44-42 record, by the way.
40:08I forgot that, but yes.
40:09Upsetting the defending champion Warriors in a game seven, okay. Tom goes to the Suns. They do
40:20not make the playoffs. They each retire after that year together. So, guess what the Suns do
40:27in the next eight years? They go to the playoffs. I mean, poor Tom. The only year in a nine-year
40:37span they don't make the playoffs is the year he goes to join his brother Dick.
40:41So, they spent the rest of their lives together in Phoenix. Tom, I don't know about his association
40:48with the team, but Dick was an interim coach one year and a broadcaster several times and an
40:54administrator. And they spent the rest of their lives together with their families in Phoenix.
40:59And the one final coda is a few years ago, Dick suffered a stroke. And though he did not fully
41:06regain his speech ability, he didn't lose his physical dexterity of his hands. And he became
41:12an artist. He had artistic and he's a legitimate artist. But they are unarguably the best
41:21twins, basketball twins ever, okay. You know, we have the Lopez's, but Robin is the sub,
41:28you know, Brooks is good. I argue Brooks is better than either Tom or Dick, but Robin isn't anywhere
41:34near that category. And then you've got the Marquise and Marcus Mars guys. They're NBA
41:42players, but they're not All-Stars. They're not three-time All-Stars like that. So, basketball,
41:49they're the answer. Now we can argue in sports, oh boy, you know, the Sadine twins probably,
41:54you may argue with that, you know. And two sets of football twins, one of whom
42:03we can speak to, the McCourty's. And the other one is Tiki and Ronde, Barber,
42:11they're pretty good. I mean, I would even put Tiki and Ronde above the McCourty's. I mean,
42:15Devin was great. I don't know if Jason was as good. But what you're pointing, the two I would
42:21compare to the Van Arsdale's would probably be Tiki and Ronde because they both won Super Bowls,
42:25didn't they? Yeah, I think so. I mean, so those two guys had great success, and so did the Van
42:34Arsdale's. I mean, they were both, they're both close to each other. Maybe the most productive
42:39twins of all, and maybe I'm forgetting something obvious, are the tennis-playing doubles player and
42:45Bryant twins. They won over 20 majors. That's right. I have no clue about that.
42:51They won over 20 majors, the Bryants. So, you know, that's interesting. Anyway, one little,
42:57you know, neither who nor their anecdote about Dick Van Arsdale. Oh, answer your question,
43:02did they ever switch? I remember asking one of them that question. I don't know which one,
43:08could have been either one, doesn't matter, same person. And in the Little League they did it once,
43:13they said. But they claimed they didn't do it elsewhere. They could have done it
43:19any night of the year and only their wives would know. Okay. In the 1970 All-Star Game,
43:29my first All-Star Game that I covered in Philadelphia, and that was when we flew in
43:35in the morning and I played the game at night. It's not like it is now. And the only ceremony
43:39was a luncheon. Okay. Luncheon. And it was snowing in Philly that night, not heavily, but enough to,
43:48you know, cause traffic problems and everything. And I was trying to ride over from a friend
43:54early. And I wasn't on the media bus, it was a media bus and I'd beaten him over there. And
44:01for some reason Dick, well, long story short, Dick Van Arsdale was there as well,
44:05but the rest of the team was on a bus that was stuck in traffic and they were late.
44:09And I had Dick Van Arsdale all to myself in the West locker room before the game.
44:16Not that there was any great scoop to get, but it was just nice social chat, you know,
44:19and everything. And that was my first year on the beat. So I was anxious to meet as many people as
44:23I could. And so that's my little moment with a solo moment with Van Arsdale. So, but they are,
44:32it's a wonderful chapter in NBA history, the Van Arsdales.
44:35Good stuff as always, Bob. Bob Ryan, Gary Tangler here brought to you by Price Picks,
44:40the exclusive daily fantasy partner of C-Linux Media Network. Pick more, pick less with Price
44:44Picks. Bob, you have a fantastic holiday, a terrific Christmas. Enjoy, enjoy. And we'll
44:51be back at it in the new year. And we'd like to thank all the viewers and listeners as well.
44:56One more thing. Yes. Hey, Sellers, get back on defense. Thank you.