Is Celtics 3-Point Math UNBEATABLE w/ Matt Moore | Celtics Beat - video Dailymotion

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Matt Moore is a NBA writer for The Action Network. Matt joins the program to discuss his latest substack column surrounding the Boston Celtics 3-point equation, if anyone can beat it, and whether the NBA Cup is actually good for basketball.   CLNS Media is Powered by:  💰 Prize Picks - https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CLNS Download the app today and use Code CLNS when you sign up & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!  🎫 Gametime - https://gametime.co Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Terms apply. What time is it? Gametime!  Elevate your style game on and off the course with the PXG Spring Summer 2024 collection. Head over to https://PXG.com/GARDENREPORT and save 10% on all apparel.  Nutrafol! Get results you can run your fingers through! For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners 10 dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code GARDEN.   With HelloFresh, you get farm-fresh, pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Go to https://HelloFresh.com/CLNSFREE and use code CLNSFREE for FREE breakfast for life! One breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That’s free breakfast for life at HelloFresh.com/CLNSFREE with code CLNSFREE!  Visit https://factormeals.com/NEWSFEED50 to get 50% off your first box! Factor is America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Kit, can help you fuel up fast with ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door.  Right now, you can get 10% off your first purchase by going to https://ArenaClub.com/HOOPS. Wow, that’s a crazy offer.10% off a $400 Slab Pack, that’s $40 right there!  #celtics #NBA #BostonCeltics --------------------------------------------------- 🍀 For More Celtics Content:  🔴  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmp3kivpOg3lzoJC7yV7VjQ?sub_confirmations=1 🔴  🏈 For More Patriots Content 🔴 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqX7G3pEDTseNxtoDU27PEg?sub_confirmations=1 🔴 ******************************************************* Check out over 200 podcasts from CLNS Media here: https://clnsmedia.com/ *********************************************************  Come Chill With Us on Social Media:  🏀 🍀 Celtics Twitter - https://twitter.com/CelticsCLNS 🏈 Patriots Twitter- https://twitter.com/patriotsclns 🔵 Twitter Main- - https://twitter.com/clnsmedia 📸 🏀 Celtics Instagram - https://instagram.com/celticsCLNS 📸 Main Instagram - https://instagram.com/clnsmedia 🔵 Facebook- https://facebook.com/clnsmedia 🔵 LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/company/clnsmedia/about/ 💟 Tik Tok - https://www.tiktok.com/@clnsmedia  Subscribe to CLNS’ Celtics 🍀 All Access Here:   🔴 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmp3kivpOg3lzoJC7yV7VjQ?sub_confirmations=1 🔴

Transcript

00:00:00Celtics beat is brought to you by price picks and the game time app

00:00:06What's up, everyone? One last pre-holidays edition of Celtics beat

00:00:12I don't know if it'll be our last one of 2024. I guess it probably won't we got one more

00:00:1720th. Yeah, so we got one more with this weekly program, but it is the last one before Christmas Hanukkah

00:00:23Whatever obviously you're celebrating. Hopefully it is a fun restful relaxing time filled with lots of Christmas Day basketball

00:00:30football throughout the week be at the

00:00:32Bowl games and college football playoff NFL even trying to join the Christmas party and Netflix

00:00:37I mean, it's look sports have taken over but no one knows that quite as well as our guest here on this program

00:00:44So we haven't had on in a while. I'm thrilled to have him back Matt Moore, of course from

00:00:49Action Network and he's part of the lockdown family

00:00:53Which is the only I mean the only reason that we will let him offer any sort of a preference on Corrales to us

00:00:59He has a sub stack and he has been writing about the Celtics of ladies on Twitter at HP basketball Matt. Welcome back, man

00:01:07How are you doing? Well, man, thanks for having me on again

00:01:10absolutely, so

00:01:12There are a number of reasons that we wanted to have you here and and just you know

00:01:15Get a national perspective on on this Celtics team and and what it's been doing

00:01:20We're looking at a you know, a top three team in the NBA standings wise

00:01:24there are plenty of people obviously to believe the Celtics are the number one team in the NBA certainly the defending champion and

00:01:30Playing at a very similar level and even in some nights many nights an even higher level than what we saw last year

00:01:37They've dropped two out of their last four just to remind us that they are human, you know

00:01:42It's it kind of them I guess even losing to the Bulls outright as massive favorites

00:01:48What a way to celebrate your Thursday folks

00:01:50But you know, we got games on the horizon again with Chicago this home and home

00:01:55I'll be with a little break in between this one is in Chicago at Orlando little two-game trip

00:02:00And then of course the Christmas Day celebration against Philadelphia, which won't probably look quite what people envisioned back in the offseason

00:02:09But you know Matt you've been writing about this team following this team very closely

00:02:13I see you tweeting about this team all the time you go back and forth with

00:02:16Greeny among others and you know, you put something on your sub stack the other day

00:02:20There was just a really interesting read about you know

00:02:23The math of of the Celtics approach to basketball specifically if people want to search for it's called Boston and the math apocalypse

00:02:30And I feel like for a couple years now

00:02:33We've been talking about math and Joe Missoula has been talking about math and Brad Stevens even when he was coaching

00:02:39It was you know

00:02:40The percentage of you know

00:02:43Taking threes versus taking long jumpers mid-range jumpers or even attacking the basket for that matter

00:02:48But only now is it kind of coming into focus in a way that you know

00:02:52You put together very very well points per possession and net rating and all of that

00:02:57But to the point where this is such a larger scale issue or at least we've made it out to be where even

00:03:02LeBron is coming out and and effectively bitching about the way NBA basketball is being played today

00:03:08So I'm I'm curious just to kind of you know

00:03:12Start the conversation anyway as to what it is that you have isolated and a lot of it's in your article

00:03:18I would encourage people go read it but to give you a chance to explain it yourself

00:03:22What it is you've isolated about the way the Celtics play that just takes it to such a different level

00:03:28Than what anyone else in the league is doing right now?

00:03:31I think what's interesting is we're kind of teetering us on a scale here

00:03:36Like there's a teeter-totter and if you go too far you start to tip over and I think Boston's on that

00:03:41And I think the league is on that as well. And what I think the big takeaway I had was

00:03:47This was like the core of it

00:03:50if your possession versus Boston ends with an

00:03:55uncontested catch-and-shoot three

00:03:57It's a failure regardless of whether they make it or not

00:04:02The minute that you have left the defender you have lost that possession

00:04:06like if you have if you leave the guy in the corner if you get leaving on the wing if you leave a

00:04:11Three-point shooter to go help you have lost that possession

00:04:14Because Boston will find him and they will find him with a good pass and they will find him with a good pass in the

00:04:20Pocket that he can shoot from even if it's not a perfect pass

00:04:23Even if there's a moderate contest on it at that point

00:04:26You have lost the possession because of how Boston is approaching this and what I

00:04:32Also compared it to was a scene from home alone where Kevin's on the stairs going

00:04:37I'm right here. You morons. Come and get me and that's what Boston does with attacking the rim. Oh, no

00:04:43You better go stop Jason Tatum. Uh-oh Luke Cornette's loose on the roll

00:04:47Jalen Brown's in the dunker spot and there is while they're they're happy to take those shots if you give them to them completely uncontested

00:04:56That's not what they want. They want you to react so that they can generate those threes. They don't pass up good layups for threes

00:05:05But I think that they probably think about it from time to time

00:05:08I think if we went back there's probably sometimes when it's like, yeah

00:05:10He probably could have made that layup, but he kicked it out for three and even if they miss

00:05:15That is a loss for the defense and teams

00:05:18I think have to balance it now on the other end when I watch the Celtics and I look at their overall numbers

00:05:24I think Boston is teetering a little bit too far and I've seen teams do this after championship runs

00:05:29But they lean so hard into that identity and they feel so invincible that they feel like nothing could possibly

00:05:36Derail them from that

00:05:37but if you don't play with

00:05:38Discipline on both ends of the floor if you don't have a certain level of balance to how you play if you're just like we're just

00:05:46Gonna beat you with the math because every single possession

00:05:48We're gonna out like on average you're gonna score this and we're gonna score this even on a moderate night

00:05:54You run the risk of running into problems in the playoffs where those outcomes don't exist

00:05:59so I think it's like a fascinating moment in time of I

00:06:03Don't know that that teams right now understand how much they have to adapt

00:06:08Their specific style if they want to have any hope versus Boston these losses

00:06:14Chicago is shot variance. The Cavs loss was shot variance

00:06:19That's it. Like that's all it is

00:06:22For the Grizzlies loss was a back-to-back and shot variance

00:06:26It's not about actually having a formula and Celtics fans very rightly are gonna feel like there is no formula

00:06:32I'm not sure that that's true, but teams have not taken them seriously enough on this

00:06:39Paradigm to actually start adapting to give themselves a real chance to win these games

00:06:44Yeah, it's a fascinating look and I really appreciate the deep dive into it because a lot of people have been

00:06:51Complaining opining about the three-point era and how it's it's it's as you said teetering and teetering in the wrong direction

00:06:57but oftentimes I all I will say

00:07:01The way Boston generates threes versus other teams is very different. You know, I think you highlighted the the

00:07:09ability to hunt catch and shoot threes more than others and that's where the shots are looking for and

00:07:15What I really liked in your piece Matt was the comment on spacing and how they force you

00:07:22to do certain things

00:07:24with the way that the floor is spaced and one of the things as I went back and looked at it this morning and a

00:07:29Lot of your clips if you just take the still shot before you press play

00:07:32I love to look where Derek White is his Derek White is often near the the ball handler

00:07:38but but far enough of behind the three-point line where he is a

00:07:43Catch-and-shoot three from a really good spot for him

00:07:46Specifically and far enough away to get that shot off before the other the defense can recover and that's to me again going back

00:07:53Are you reading that this morning? I was like, you know

00:07:55This is something that I didn't realize first time

00:07:57But as I read it the second time and I know what to expect

00:08:00It's like watching a show the second time you get you know to expecting find everything's that's to me

00:08:04I think the beauty of this offense is as how well it's spaced and you

00:08:09Pair that with the quote from Jalen Brown earlier this season about the killer whale offense and how they hunt you

00:08:14It's they're putting in you in a bind in which they they're they're dictating everything

00:08:21Whatever you do, they've already thought of and by the way as you're thinking about how to recover over here on this side

00:08:27All this stuff over here. Oh, there's paid Richard over there. Guess what? He's had an unbelievable season. So as you explain

00:08:34Your content and explain the article and what Boston's doing how much is the spacing?

00:08:40Affect Boston's ability to put you in these disadvantageous positions

00:08:44If you go through and you just run through hundreds of NBA clips

00:08:47One of the things that will actually I think really blow your mind is how much a footstep matters

00:08:53There's space on the court, right?

00:08:55We got 90 feet and we've got all this space and like it shouldn't mean that much

00:08:59You would be amazed James Harden won MVP because of his ability to very quietly and almost imperceptibly

00:09:06Move to his left while dribbling without you noticing

00:09:10So you stand still and he has moved just a half step to his left

00:09:15Which means that when he goes left you are not in position to defend him with Boston

00:09:21the first clip that I start out with is a

00:09:23Yassin and Kumpo help on Damian Lillard in ISO versus Jason Tatum when Dame does a pretty good job and

00:09:30What you notice is whites not at the three-point line and he's not a step over to make the pass

00:09:35Easier for Tatum with where he's at. It is just far away that even Giannis on to the Kumpo

00:09:44Person made out of robo ores is unable to get back and recover like human pterodactyl

00:09:51Giannis cannot recover to get out and contest that three adequately and

00:09:56a lot of these are and I do think that this matters an

00:10:01Open catch-and-shoot rhythm three is the ideal

00:10:06but a rhythm catch-and-shoot three

00:10:09even if it's moderately contested is

00:10:13Actually better than an uncontested

00:10:15Dribble up out of rhythm three like Boston's entire thing is every single one of their shots

00:10:21You're never like that's a bad shot. It might be from Tatum every now and again

00:10:26That's a criticism of his but Jason does that to keep the defense?

00:10:31Honest and because Tatum has the ability to hit those and if he works on that enough

00:10:35He's gonna get to a level where he's that kind of scorer and then that's gonna shift his game

00:10:41Entirely and how teams have to defend him

00:10:43But what I kind of notice you mentioned Peyton Pritchard like if you just I don't it's like well, yeah, but those are numbers

00:10:50I'm telling you that's how they're beating you

00:10:52This is what's frustrating is what people are like

00:10:53Well, I don't really care about the metrics you should because that's how they're murdering you because Jason Tatum on a contested

00:11:01Two-pointer with a defender within two feet of him within two feet

00:11:05Like two feet of him is still only gonna score zero point nine six points per possession. That's 96 per 100 possessions

00:11:14Peyton Pritchard catch-and-shoot three is a

00:11:17140 offensive rating

00:11:19you're never gonna keep up with that ever and

00:11:24teams inability to understand that because they look at and this is a credit to Tatum and and Brown and how Missoula has built the

00:11:31offense they cannot help themselves

00:11:35From I got to help my teammate. I got a crowd the paint

00:11:38I got a show him a crowd because that's what they've been taught their entire lives and

00:11:43Boston has taken those strategies and made them into mortal weaknesses for the opponent

00:11:49Let's take a quick break. Tell you today's show is powered by prize picks prize

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00:12:42Look, it's been a tough tough year for the Pats. All right, we'll just get out of the way

00:12:45All right, we can all admit that right? So with that in mind is look at the slate

00:12:50For this weekend. I'm playing a lot of things against the Patriots. I'm going Josh Allen over

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00:13:03So I'm riding that MVP man. He's ridiculous right now James Cook

00:13:07I I think the reason why the bills have been so good is because James Cook can actually run the rock this year over

00:13:1365 and a half rushing yards and then look Washington the commanders their defense is really bad

00:13:19I like Devante Smith over a half a touchdown against Washington

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00:14:01Let's get back to the show

00:14:04there's a

00:14:06one thing I preach on this show from time to time Matt is

00:14:09just sort of the reminder of

00:14:11Enjoy the journey and the process and where we are because even as you don't bring football into it

00:14:18I'll do this periodically and is part of the comparison, you know, it's a Patriots fan like even during 20 years of of

00:14:26You know dominance and annihilation of the league. I feel like I

00:14:31Properly enjoyed it, but you know now with where they are

00:14:34Obviously as a franchise you look back and it's like man

00:14:37Did I did I enjoy it enough like boy?

00:14:39I should have been in front of my TV every Sunday every Pats game as opposed to like that one time

00:14:45No, we can go apple-picking or whatever it is. I don't have to watch they're gonna win. They're a 20-point favorite

00:14:51They're like they're it's not gonna be a pro that kind of thing. Like it's not even gonna be close

00:14:55I bring that up because I mean every once in a while

00:14:59within

00:15:00This now with the Celtics out. I'll sort of

00:15:04Go back through the the brain a little bit remind myself that a decade or so ago

00:15:08Like the best three-point shooter on this team was like Avery Bradley. They were not a good three-point shooting team

00:15:14They were not a good shooting team not to you know, have Avery Bradley catching strays here

00:15:20just before Christmas on this podcast, but

00:15:23one of the things that you highlighted in your article was that you know, I there's this

00:15:29sort of

00:15:30Delusion my word not yours that that the Celtics are an elite

00:15:35Three-point shooting team when in reality when you dig into the numbers, they're obviously very good well above average

00:15:42But they're not elite, you know, not even top 10 necessarily depending on the metrics you're looking at. It's more

00:15:48shot selection and volume obviously and

00:15:53I'm guilty of this. Like I I look at the Celtics. I'm watching the Celtics

00:15:57I feel like they are an elite three-point shooting team because they just have so many options

00:16:02Many of the guys that you guys have already talked about. So what is it about this team that you know, I guess can

00:16:10Rise above in that way that we're talking about that other teams

00:16:15Theoretically could model or is it unrealistic just based on roster construction here versus elsewhere

00:16:22So I think that's a great question

00:16:24You know

00:16:25a lot of it is you do have to factor in that volume is always gonna create a cost on efficiency unless you're Peyton Pritchard apparently

00:16:31Like everybody else it's like if you take enough threes

00:16:34Yeah

00:16:34you're gonna miss more but your effective field goal percentage is still gonna go up because you're taking those shots instead of two-pointers and

00:16:40If you're hitting more threes if you're hitting the same amount of threes as twos, you're just gonna wind up

00:16:47Better over the long run. And so even if you're a 35% three-point shooter

00:16:51There's still like that benefit there Harden's like the king of this and not to bring him back up again

00:16:55But this really was like a big part of it was you would look at his scoring in Houston and be like

00:16:59He's not a great shooter. He's not he's not Steph Curry

00:17:01He's not shooting 42% from three

00:17:03But he shot so many that over the course of the game you would wind up losing those possessions like you come down you get

00:17:10It dunk. That's great

00:17:11James Harden came down and hit a step back three or the Celtics got a catch-and-shoot Derek white three

00:17:18They win that possession and over the course of those those two possessions

00:17:22They've won those that that those two possessions like that set of possessions. They've won and so they wind up kind of getting there

00:17:28I think the other thing is we kind of mentioned when LeBron's comments about this a lot of it is

00:17:34teams

00:17:36That take a lot of threes that cannot make them like that's not

00:17:41We think of that as bad like we got all these teams taking threes and they can't hit a lick

00:17:45Okay

00:17:46But we are used to have a lot of teams taking mid-range twos that couldn't hit a lick

00:17:50Like that's just teams taking the shots that they shouldn't

00:17:53Getting your team to take the right shot

00:17:56That's such a big part of coaching JB Bickerstaff is really good at this where if you look at his resume

00:18:02His teams consistently take the best shots

00:18:06But guess what like his teams are still always pretty terrible offensively because he doesn't have the personnel

00:18:10To take those shots. Would they be better if maybe they took some different ones?

00:18:14Yeah

00:18:14But the problem is if they take the shots that they're better at they lose to teams like Boston or even the Bulls

00:18:21Because they can't keep up

00:18:22That's where the current NBA is is you have to be able to build a model of we can sustainably keep up with elite offenses

00:18:30While playing to our strengths, that's the challenge

00:18:34You can't just play to your strengths and you can't just take threes

00:18:36You have to be able to play to your strength which incorporates three-pointers

00:18:40Denver has one of the most efficient offenses in the league

00:18:43But they don't take enough threes for them to compete a lot of nights. They're up against it

00:18:47They're starting at a disadvantage every single game. Like this is I said this in the article as well that with Boston

00:18:52You're starting off behind

00:18:55That's it

00:18:55Unless you come into the game with we're gonna do everything we can to limit their threes and we'll give up the rim and we're

00:19:01Gonna take threes no matter what unless you take that approach

00:19:05You have already lost you are already behind at least and you're relying on shot variants

00:19:10Which will get you some wins, but probably not enough for it to work out

00:19:15Yeah, you look at that Chicago game

00:19:18Thursday night Chicago beats Boston and you can label that to a little bit of shot variance

00:19:23But one of the things that you look at in that game that I thought was interesting was how quickly

00:19:29The Bulls get into their sets

00:19:31so that they can catch Boston in

00:19:34You know trying to cross match trying to figure things out all of a sudden you give up an open shot now part of this

00:19:39Zach Levine was out of his mind

00:19:41Thursday night and sometimes that's it just nothing you can do about that the game previously. It was Nikola Vucic who almost

00:19:48Took Boston out. He was just on fire and you know, sometimes just got tip your cap

00:19:53But there are certain things that I think that Chicago was done

00:19:56to

00:19:57Give other teams an idea of what it would take

00:20:01Not to be Boston in the games essentially at the end of the day

00:20:04That's not what anybody's trying to do. You got to beat this team four times in seven games

00:20:09So you're talking about models and trying to build the correct model right beat Boston four times

00:20:14and this is one of the things when

00:20:16you know, this is not as much this year was more last year when every single loss and again you deal with

00:20:22Idiots and your mentions all the time more than anybody any of us do so

00:20:26But my point was last year whatever anything they would lose a game

00:20:29Everyone lose their mind. It was it was like, oh this guy's fun winning a championship gives you whatever

00:20:35In terms of models, is there a model out there that a team does

00:20:41Consistently that you say yeah, that might be the way

00:20:45That a team could beat Boston four times to seven games because so far the only team in my opinion

00:20:51And it's funny just because they're now in the middle of trying to sell guys off

00:20:55Chicago's the only team really that has given Boston trouble in

00:20:59Two games one they won one Boston one

00:21:02So is there any other team out there that that jumps out to you that could give Boston a tough time?

00:21:06All right

00:21:07So the the models to kind of be Boston are

00:21:10One I pure shot variant series Boston can't hit water if they fall out of a boat the other team shoots lights out in

00:21:16Three games it comes down to a game seven and then anything can happen like that's a shot variance game as well

00:21:21Like that's not sustainable. The second is

00:21:24if you're able to invert this math defensively and

00:21:28You're able like look at look at what Chicago did last night, right?

00:21:32Don't look at defensively, but I'm my point here is Boston took 56 three Scott 56 threes

00:21:38But Chicago took 52 so they only lost that three-point battle by four now. You're in a range

00:21:45Where you're not in such a hole

00:21:48That maybe you can get the outcomes that you need if you have consistent scoring options like a Zach Levine going off

00:21:54The teams I look at are the on the defensive side and the question is gonna be can they generate enough offense to get over

00:22:01The minimum hump of what Boston's gonna bring to the table because that thing you can play an absolutely incredible game versus Boston

00:22:07It's like yeah, you help them do a 112 offensive rating

00:22:10That's still higher than a lot of teams are gonna be in the playoffs

00:22:14OKC is a really interesting one. We saw what happened in the cup when their shots don't fall

00:22:19So they had a miserable shooting night Shea gets bottled up by isolation defense and that was really difficult. But if we look defensively

00:22:26OKC has the propensity to do this. They can switch everything their rotations are perfect. Their closeouts are elite

00:22:32They have the right timing to where they can at least show a little bit and they can actually adapt a game plan to keep

00:22:38Them within range. They're gonna take enough threes to be in that contest

00:22:41So if if they have a series where Isaiah Joe is red hot Aaron Wiggins is red hot Alex Caruso hits a few Jalen

00:22:48Williams has a great series and Shea is the guy that's enough to get you three wins and then that gets you to a game seven

00:22:55That's the finals

00:22:56The other team I look at really quite honestly is the Orlando Magic which has actually given Boston some trouble through the years like that's

00:23:03Not a great matchup for them because they have those perimeter defenders

00:23:06The easy response is just like is Orlando really gonna score enough and the answer to be perfectly honest is we don't know

00:23:14Because that first five games when Orlando shot out of the gate when Paolo and Franz were there with the rest of that team

00:23:21Their offense looked fundamentally different and better and since then they've ground back into the absolute like rock-throwing

00:23:29Trebuchet that they were last year and they're not good enough offensively to be able to keep up like that team's never gonna be Boston

00:23:37but if Paolo and Franz get back and

00:23:40Especially if at the deadline they add one more shooter and they get KCP past the early season shooting struggles

00:23:46He asked which he looks like he's turned that corner that becomes very interesting

00:23:50But this was a big takeaway from the last time the Cavs met met the Celtics the Cavs won that game

00:23:55But I looked at the number of three-point attempts that the Cavs gave up in that game and I was like you're not gonna win

00:24:00The series unless you can show me fundamentally that you can adapt to what Boston does

00:24:04You're never gonna beat a team

00:24:06You're never gonna beat Boston being like we're gonna do what we do and we're gonna make them adapt to us

00:24:11Give that up now. They are too good at what they do. You have to admit that you're superior and game plan against that

00:24:18That's the only real model that you can really build

00:24:21If when Max was on with us Cedric Maxwell what a month ago something like that. Yeah

00:24:27Right that he shouted out. Yeah. Yeah, he's been talking about it for a while

00:24:31Yeah, the one that he felt could give Boston trouble in the Eastern Conference at least

00:24:34I'm wondering and I was talking to f about this before the show man. I just you know national perspective

00:24:40I'm wondering what you think

00:24:42The LeBron comments again about we need to look at the league and the way this game is played and it feels like like we were

00:24:48Text we have our text thread our show text thread and we were getting into this a little bit about how the league every

00:24:54X number of years kind of goes through this introspective. How are we playing and how where's it gonna go?

00:25:01How's it gonna all that stuff? I

00:25:04Can't help but wonder maybe just because this is a Celtics podcast

00:25:08Are we having this same conversation if?

00:25:12Everything is happening in the league the way it is right now, except it's not Boston. It's

00:25:18Oklahoma City or name your team. Is this a Boston problem that has every but you know a marquee franchise

00:25:25you know at most banners in the league and and all of that is is this a

00:25:30Celtics issue or a Celtics based issue that is such a national conversation

00:25:36to where you know former players Barkley Shaq all these guys or obviously

00:25:43Current all-timers like a LeBron or are weighing in on almost a daily basis

00:25:49Or is it's a conversation we'd be having regardless just because of where things have shifted

00:25:54Not just obviously in the last couple of years with Boston

00:25:56But really going back to you know splash brothers and and the beginning of that run for curry clay

00:26:02Eventually Durant and that whole crew with the Warriors

00:26:05Let me I will both

00:26:08Reject the premise and pander to Celtics fans, and I'll say this

00:26:12It's not a Boston problem

00:26:15as much as Boston feels

00:26:18targeted

00:26:19Targeted hunted unfairly criticized

00:26:21You're still the you're the second most iconic franchise in the league

00:26:26And the only reason that you're not number one is because the other one is in LA like that's it

00:26:33Like that's that's the only reason like if we're talking about the most like if you think about what is the team of the NBA?

00:26:39It's the Boston Celtics. No question like that's the NBA team is the Boston Celtics

00:26:43and there's a I always get confused about the media criticism because I'm like guys you have one of the largest chunks of

00:26:49Of I would call them sympathizers in national media

00:26:53There's so many guys with Boston connections that that roll around and defend. I think the Celtics

00:26:59I don't think it's about Boston because we had this conversation before this has been burbling it happened with Houston with the Daryl

00:27:05Maury stuff like it happened there

00:27:07It has happened consistently with all these teams that have done it like we first started noticing this

00:27:12With their Rockets when they missed 28 threes versus the Warriors is when people are like really like why don't you go inside and above?

00:27:18It's like they're open

00:27:19I

00:27:20Think the cat the jump shots off the dribble is fundamentally different when you're watching teams that can't shoot

00:27:27Do this consistently that to me is like the problem that you run into because like the Clippers are fourth most in

00:27:35Jumpers and three-point jumpers off the dribble and yet they're at 34% on those shots like they don't shoot

00:27:42Well on those shots the Celtics are number one in that category and you're at 32%

00:27:48Like you don't shoot well off of the dribble, but you take a ton of them

00:27:51And those are the shots that annoy them if this was okay see I think you would still have a lot of aversion

00:27:57I actually there would probably be more because the league tends to not like it when small market teams are

00:28:03Visible they don't want them to be like most of the media is like can you just go away and give us Lakers Celtics every?

00:28:08Year because that's all we really want is Lakers Celtics and Lakers Knicks

00:28:11But what I will tell you is if the Los Angeles Lakers led the league in three-point attempts. We wouldn't hear a thing

00:28:18We wouldn't hear anything not from LeBron not from the media

00:28:23It would be like look at this era

00:28:25The Lakers have ushered in aren't we lucky to live in a time when the Lakers have embraced math?

00:28:31I've always said education is important. That's what we would hear from people if it was the Lakers. It's not a Celtics thing

00:28:39It's that the only team that wouldn't catch

00:28:42grief over this is the Lakers

00:28:44Yeah, and it's funny to have JJ come out the past couple of days and say what he said about

00:28:49the way the league is covered the what you know the reliance on three-pointers, but more about how the discussion is

00:28:56Is sort of catered?

00:28:58Whether it's online or on television or in podcasts or whatever

00:29:02and and one of the things that I really liked about it is like, you know, we we we do a lot to

00:29:08denigrate, you know and to to speak poorly about

00:29:11What is happening instead of trying to uplift people like again

00:29:15I try to do this last year in real time. Like what what we saw last year with Boston was historically unbelievable

00:29:21and I tried to

00:29:23Every chance I get speak on it and some people like Sean Graney would be on this show and Sean always has the stats at

00:29:303 a.m. That

00:29:32Unbelievable and you know, he told us back in February coffin. It was February January somewhere

00:29:36There he goes. Look if you look at the numbers and look at what Boston's doing

00:29:39They're gonna they're gonna win a title like every team that's done this and where they're at they've won the title and so I

00:29:46one of the things I don't like is like just because it's different and

00:29:51Isn't the same NBA that we all romanticize and fantasize about doesn't mean it's not good doesn't mean the product isn't good

00:29:57It's just different and we've done a poor job, I think

00:30:03Highlighting

00:30:04Some of the the better things that have come out of this like and I was listening to Camp Johnson talk about this with Sue

00:30:09Bird on young man of the three about how like the spacing of the three-point era

00:30:16Has allowed for more dunks and leak as the paints never been more wide open ever in the history of the NBA

00:30:22And we don't focus on that part. We focus on the jump shooting part

00:30:27and so my question I guess revolves more on how do we

00:30:32Change this narrative like if again, I thought your piece very enlightening

00:30:35It wasn't a lot of detail why it's great why it's different and why and why Boston is doing something that should be celebrated

00:30:40And yet we don't have the same

00:30:43Mindset with everybody everybody's and again, you have you know, Charles Barkley talks about how much the league sucks every week

00:30:49It's like oh I eat and he can't name like half the guys on rosters him and Shaq

00:30:53Don't know who plays or what teams so how do we change this narrative to accept that this brand of basketball is here to stay a

00:31:01And then it's actually not bad. It's actually pretty fun to watch

00:31:05It's a great question. I think there's a couple of things on the media side

00:31:08I think that the new media deal is gonna offer up some opportunities. We'll see

00:31:13Who's in charge and what decisions they make?

00:31:15But I have some hope given how Amazon has directed their coverage

00:31:19The Amazon is actually gonna go towards like hey, what if we just like gave you smart content?

00:31:23like what if we actually did did like

00:31:26Treat math as like an okay thing to talk about because it's the fundamental backbone of a box score, which everybody knows

00:31:32I have some hopes on that NBC. I think has always kind of carried itself with a little bit more

00:31:38How can I put this dignity than some of the other?

00:31:41Outlets like I don't mean that derisively. I just mean that like they want to have like a certain

00:31:46yeah, a certain level of gravitas that like Stephen a Smith yelling at me or

00:31:53Chuck saying a fat joke about Shaq while Shaq makes a joke about no rings to Barkley for the 700 time

00:31:58Is it like there's an opportunity for new voices what I think is really good from a game standpoint. I

00:32:05Don't think we can change the conversation now

00:32:08because

00:32:09What I always get to is I'm like guys

00:32:12I don't I don't understand how I know that everybody has played this game that loves us like most almost

00:32:17Everybody that loves basketball has played the sport on some level

00:32:21How do you not appreciate drawing two defenders and making a selfless pass to an open teammate for a catch-and-shoot quality shot?

00:32:29like that's the fundamental of like that's good basketball and for some reason with the Celtics were just like

00:32:36this is garbage and I don't I really don't understand it and

00:32:40The other effect is people only notice certain things. I always thought this about this is the opposite with the mid-range shots

00:32:47when certain players would

00:32:49jack up

00:32:5110 mid-range shots in a game

00:32:53Everyone remembers the ones that they may all what a tough shot. He made so many tough shots in that game

00:32:58Yeah, he shot four of ten from the field. He shot 40 percent. It's not good enough for you to win

00:33:04You missed out on six possessions there. You didn't make enough out of those ten possessions with how you shot

00:33:09So I think instead what we need is we honestly we what we do need though

00:33:14We need a defensive adjustment is that we are gonna need some coach to be like no

00:33:18I'm not willing to just go into this game and

00:33:21Accept that I'm playing from behind versus Boston. We're gonna guard the three-point line first. I'm gonna make them score at the rim

00:33:28Over and over and over again

00:33:30I'm gonna make them beat us in points in the paint and Celtics fans will be like fine

00:33:33We'll do that and they might but that's like the first step is

00:33:37Teams changing how they guard because when I watch all these games

00:33:41Pritchard you mentioned earlier is the one that drives me insane

00:33:46Because I'm like guys

00:33:48Peyton is a better than people think defender and a better than people think

00:33:55passer and driver

00:33:57There's one reason he's on the court

00:34:00one

00:34:02Go stay home and

00:34:04the inability of teams to do that because of these principles is what has to change the

00:34:09Defenses need to catch up to the offense once that happens. We'll have better balance, which I think is what people are looking for

00:34:15So on the whole because I'm I'm assuming I haven't asked but I'm assuming NBC Sports

00:34:19Boston's not having any issue with the ratings with the way the Celtics have played in recent years, but on the whole

00:34:25League ratings are down people keep talking about it on a national level. What brings it back?

00:34:30What what is it that brings the the you know diehards are watching you're watching Evans watch and I'm watching but you know listeners of this

00:34:38Show, I'm sure are watching you're bothering to listen to this show. You're watching basketball every night

00:34:43You've got league pass or whatever. You're you know, however, you're consuming it across your various streaming or cable outlets

00:34:49But you know what what brings the the average basketball fan the casual fan back to bring the ratings back

00:34:56I mean, they're tweaking with the all-star game format again and all that stuff thinking that's gonna make any sort of difference

00:35:02It won't but what what does it on a night-to-night regular season level?

00:35:08So I've been doing some research on this and

00:35:12Evan Washburn from air and one back part of me from NBA comm

00:35:16He's senior director of basketball operations and he's had some really interesting questions about the or comments about this

00:35:22and one thing that Evan said is that they've done like deep dive market research and

00:35:27No, none of that indicates that three-pointers of the problem. Like none of that indicates that that's the issue

00:35:32Maybe they're lying

00:35:33But I tend to kind of think that the league takes it pretty seriously when they notice this drop-off in ratings

00:35:37They're like, hey, we should probably look at this. They're at least doing market research constantly

00:35:41I

00:35:42Also find this conversation really weird when it's like like people aren't watching because of the amount of three-pointers

00:35:49I'm like, but you're not watching to know that they're taking threes

00:35:52like if the drop-off is from

00:35:542014 the problem is getting people in the door and that a lot honestly has to do with how people have been trained to cut to

00:35:59Watch the NBA people care about the NBA when there are dominant franchises and large markets

00:36:04Now the Boston Celtics are a dominant franchise in a large market and if they win another title, maybe this starts to change

00:36:10Maybe it becomes like hey, I want to watch the Celtics dynasty. Maybe that like actually shifts

00:36:15But that to me is like you have to you have to either choose that you're going to lean in completely and try this what?

00:36:20I think is an unsustainable long-term approach

00:36:22to trying to just build up certain markets or

00:36:26You have to retrain people to actually care about their teams and the step one in that is you need to give them good games

00:36:32And step as part of that you got to have better games, which means you got to have released the schedule because the schedule

00:36:39The players have made it clear that they're doing what they can and the league has done everything they can with the 65 game limit

00:36:45And all that resulted in was more injuries when the playoff started

00:36:48I don't have a way to understand how it is that we have so many more injury problems than we did 10 to 10 years

00:36:55ago 15 years ago

00:36:56Everyone's got opinions from AAU the amount of basketball played to the level of athleticism to the spacing requiring

00:37:03more burst movement

00:37:05I

00:37:06Think all of that probably has a say I don't really care at the end of the day about this issue because I'm like look

00:37:11We know that this isn't working

00:37:13You need to reduce the schedule

00:37:15Fewer games more games in between for lead-up so that we can build up these matchups so that we know

00:37:20We need to know when we get Celtics Cavaliers that there is a

00:37:2560% chance or better that we're getting full rosters for those matchups rather than like yeah, I don't know

00:37:31I mean

00:37:31It's like probably what like a maybe a coin flip if Tatum's gonna play the coin flip of Mitchell's gonna be available

00:37:37You can't have that if people are gonna care about the regular season

00:37:40You have to give them games

00:37:42They can actually trust and believe in the league has not been able to do that and things have shifted under their feet

00:37:48That to me is step one in addressing the problem

00:37:50Yeah, one of the other things in to piggyback off that I liked, you know

00:37:55Simmons had a great little intro monologue about this entire thing

00:38:00And one of the things I really liked what he said

00:38:02there's a lot of the history of the game and

00:38:05It goes all the way back to when basketball was first like if you have time to go back and listen that I think it's

00:38:09It's it's important and it's a good job of framing things

00:38:13But one of the things I think he mentioned in that rant or in that monologue or what I'm gonna call it

00:38:18was this past summer in the Olympics and

00:38:24The idea that

00:38:26USA basketball is holding on to these

00:38:29ginormous stars LeBron Curry KD as long as possible and they have done a

00:38:37Ineffective job to market the the the next upcoming generation and you know

00:38:43I don't know where you want to put guys in that is Tatum in that is he too old for that?

00:38:47Is it more of like a 22 23 year old thing? Is it a 26 27 year old thing?

00:38:52You know where it is?

00:38:54How did you know team USA trying to market these guys like it's it was more about Steph LeBron and KD than it was

00:39:01About Booker, you know Tatum and in Anthony Edwards and that to me

00:39:07Was a misstep and I sort of agreed with that allowing

00:39:11Those three guys the three older guys

00:39:13To dominate the team give them one last ride and let them

00:39:17Get one more shot at a golden right off in the sunset. They've they favored that over

00:39:22Allowing the new generation create their own storylines. Do you have any?

00:39:26thoughts on

00:39:28The ability of the NBA to market the younger stars to a national audience

00:39:32Yeah, I think

00:39:34They're up against it because you need to be the best like you need to be the best players

00:39:41That run wasn't necessarily surprising because the only thing was like KG didn't do the Olympics after his terrible experience with it, right?

00:39:48So in 2008, you didn't have Kobe and KG if that would have been their ride

00:39:53It would have been Kobe and KG's like last Olympic ride in 08

00:39:58Instead it was Kobe and then you had this next tier of elites of Dwayne Wade who'd already won a championship

00:40:04LeBron

00:40:06You know Chris Bosh mellow like you had that second class coming up behind the behind one guy this was you had

00:40:14three

00:40:15generational all-time top 15 top 20 players all

00:40:19in this group willing to play because they you know, I I hated it because I was like you guys left that

00:40:27FIBA team out to dry because none of you could deign to play for them and now none of those guys get a shot and

00:40:33they look bad like you're writing in to save the day because you got all your buddies to play like I was it was it

00:40:40Was gross to me

00:40:42Congrats to Team USA, but

00:40:44but you know, I think with the the issue here is you know, look Jokic and

00:40:51Giannis have owned this league over the last four years in the regular season. Like this has been their league

00:40:59Embiid I think you can argue has been at least part of that conversation

00:41:02but he's just not like nobody is in my opinion is as excited about and beat as they are about Jokic and Giannis and

00:41:08Then behind that you have Luka coming and to me the next 10 years are about Luka Donchik and Victor women

00:41:14Yama unless another player comes out that is able to rise above those two and with their skill sets and

00:41:21Bodies, I don't know how like Cooper flag. I think is gonna be incredible. Do I think he's gonna be Victor or Luka?

00:41:27No, like this league is going to be dominated by international players at the top level over the next decade and

00:41:34They tried to push Anthony Edwards this year

00:41:36They I thought it was so fascinating that they put ant on

00:41:39opening night versus the Lakers that that was the decision as to like we're gonna put ant in the spotlight and

00:41:45Now we're kind of saying like he's just not quite there yet, and he might not get there

00:41:50He might just be like really really good

00:41:52Doesn't mean you can't win a title in the playoffs last year, right?

00:41:55Thank you very much Jordan, you know

00:41:57I like they're they're trying to make these guys and you can't really do it

00:42:00so the key is gonna be like they're gonna have to find somebody who is as good as Luka Donchik Victor women Yama and the

00:42:06aging of Giannis and

00:42:08Jokic which

00:42:10Honestly is really difficult. I think Tatum is in that conversation this year. He's been so good

00:42:14He started to dip a little bit over the last three weeks statistically, which is tough

00:42:19But it is I will say in Tatum's defense

00:42:21I continue to be like, how do we keep having these conversations about a guy who has been to the conference finals this much?

00:42:26Like anybody who wins this often needs to be given more credit for what he's able to do

00:42:33and

00:42:35For him he needs to have like one spectacular offensive season and that probably comes after this run is over because they don't need that

00:42:42from him they need him to like play within a certain limit of

00:42:45Individual excellence. This is one of the balances in the NBA right now

00:42:48Luka, I think is having his best season

00:42:50He has his lowest usage of his career like do less impact more is how you win

00:42:56You become a truly elite team and that it battles with the ability for guys to individually shape the game with their stats

00:43:05One more break we got to tell you today's show is powered by game time. There is nothing better. Nothing. Nothing

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00:45:47NBA Cup wrapped up in Vegas and it was a great matchup, you know, at least on paper

00:45:53I'm not necessarily in reality, but the Bucks handled the Thunder. I mean it wasn't even the Thunder just

00:46:01Bad night shot incredibly poorly

00:46:03Especially from three Shea was off took him a while to get going started to show up in the fourth quarter

00:46:07It wasn't a good performance out of OKC

00:46:09But of course that game, you know being all the attention that was attached to it. You start to see social media narratives of

00:46:17Like this is this is the team in the West that everybody's afraid of like

00:46:21limping out here against Milwaukee a team that we weren't even taken seriously till a couple weeks ago when they started to get it together I

00:46:28Do respect that the the Bucks underdog they didn't

00:46:31Go out and you know champagne bath the thing and go crazy in the locker room and all that like we have a season to

00:46:37Focus on here. They understand there is more at stake. We don't typically

00:46:42Spend a lot of time talking about like Nick right here on the show

00:46:46But you know, he he will often say things to trigger NBA fans Boston fans all that

00:46:52He made a comment. This has nothing to do with Celtics, but about the importance of the NBA Cup

00:46:58the other day on his show at something that I think went viral anyway of saying basically that

00:47:03with LeBron his is his Jesus going out and winning the first one and then

00:47:09Giannis winning the second one that this was a and wanting to win it like caring about winning it

00:47:16this was a message to the rest of the league that

00:47:19basically to be a great player you need to have this on your resume and

00:47:24While I vehemently disagree with that notion I

00:47:28do think it's an interesting talking point because you know, I was I got into it with a couple of buddies and

00:47:34The response was basically, you know, I agree with this. It's like I mean

00:47:40Are we gonna look back at the end of?

00:47:42Steph's career or Yoko's career if they haven't won an NBA Cup in season title and say like they're not great players

00:47:49because this isn't on their resume, so I

00:47:52Think the league would very much like to inflate the importance

00:47:55Obviously of the NBA Cup and and what it means to win that thing and hoist that banner

00:48:01Which is the dumbest thing in the world to begin with

00:48:04but

00:48:05looking forward now

00:48:07Because it was LeBron because it was Giannis

00:48:11I've never really felt the Celtics Tatum at the head of the snake have really cared about winning this thing

00:48:16I mean, it's it's just you know, we we got our eyes on bigger banners more important banners

00:48:22But is this trending in a direction in your mind where?

00:48:25Some of the upper echelon players in the NBA are going to say, you know, wait a minute. I

00:48:30Don't need this on my resume. It's not going to determine whether or not I'm in the Hall of Fame or something

00:48:36But I'd like it

00:48:37I'd like to be in that special group that you know that that just now

00:48:41budding small group of great players to also win the in-season title does it matter at all or is it just people trying to

00:48:50Something meaning that really isn't there I

00:48:53Think at its core my biggest issue with the skepticism about the cup is just the idea that it has to reach a certain level

00:49:00The NBA didn't present. This is like this is as important as the championship

00:49:04They didn't do that

00:49:04like it's just like a good thing to win to flip this around like think about the way that you presented it which is a

00:49:10Very like this is how we talk about sports right because we talk about the rings this way. Can he be great?

00:49:15He didn't win a ring

00:49:16Right, we wouldn't say that about the cup. Therefore. It can't be that important but flip it around here and let's do this instead instead of

00:49:24He won the cup. So he's great flip it. He's great. So we won the cup. That's the way to think about this is

00:49:31Great players if we see next year another like elite player if the Nuggets with yokich or if the Mavericks with Luka

00:49:40or

00:49:41Like Steph I thought was like if they hadn't run into the Rockets

00:49:44I think the Warriors might have had a real shot at this thing if Steph had won it we would feel kind of the same

00:49:47Way of like, oh like this is like something that's on the resume of these all-time elite players

00:49:53It's not that if you're missing it, you can't be considered it

00:49:56But I do think that it helps with getting players to invest in it. I mean to me

00:50:00Listening to the players in the locker room talk about it

00:50:03It was very honestly like once they were like, wait, wait, okay 500,000. Okay, so explain the tiebreakers to me and

00:50:11The what the Bucs are trying to do is prove that it's not an either-or

00:50:15We have this tendency to be like well

00:50:17I don't want to win this because if I win this it's like I won that and not the championship and

00:50:21That's like it becomes like a joke right with the Lakers. It's like congrats on winning the NBA Cup. You got bounced in the first round

00:50:28But if the Bucs were to go on and win the NBA title this season, it would be like wow

00:50:31Giannis won the cup

00:50:33Cup MVP the finals finals MVP and finals MVP is way more important than the number one and that's like what we'll talk about

00:50:40But like cup MVPs on the list and that's where it should be. It's just like it's on the list of accomplishments

00:50:46there's a middle ground between like

00:50:49Brandon Anderson who you've had on the show complete psycho asked me like, where do you place?

00:50:53This in terms of awards and he was like, I think it's here and not here

00:50:58It's like below it's like above rookie of the year, but below this and my answer was it's like a second

00:51:04all-team NBA

00:51:06Selection it's not first team all NBA, but it's like a second team all NBA selection

00:51:11That's the level that it rises to which is really good. That's really good

00:51:15But it's just like as long as we don't try and and as and think that anyone's trying to raise this to this high level

00:51:21It's just something fun that you can add to the context of a season, which I think is good

00:51:26We're all push back on that though and follow me here on this. I

00:51:31Feel like this is this is gonna be something that we associate with teams

00:51:36and great players

00:51:38Like if Derek White wins, you know, it like if he's named to the second team all NBA, right, right

00:51:45Like, you know, you'll look at it is like cool. Like that's that's an individual thing. That's a cool thing. That means something

00:51:50There's there's distinction there

00:51:53No one would ever say you see that Derek White

00:51:57won the NBA Cup

00:51:59Like no who cares like no nobody would look at it that way like you need to like Tatum Brown sure

00:52:05But then there's a drop-off

00:52:06We're in like the second year though, man

00:52:09and like here's the thing if you don't want it to succeed it's not gonna succeed for you and

00:52:14like if you're a Boston fan and your standard is

00:52:1818 banners then yeah, you're gonna look down on it and I get it

00:52:22But also if you had like think back to the Tatum's first season 17-18

00:52:28if that team

00:52:31Imagine if Isaiah Thomas won Cup MVP and how cool that would feel for Isaiah to have gotten that

00:52:39award

00:52:40Before you completely ruined his career like before that happened

00:52:45It would have been like a really great accomplishment for Isaiah and that team would have been it would have been a really cool story

00:52:52For this young Celtics team on the rise to have accomplished that

00:52:57Yeah, I agree with that and the you know, look that's a tough that's a true statement, but I say we have to live with but

00:53:04One thing that I like though is like it gives teams like you look at Houston a team that's kind of on the rise

00:53:10Gives them a little bit more of like a national plug

00:53:13They're not gonna be on national TV every night

00:53:14Nobody can name a lot of casual fans can't name the starting five of the Houston Rockets. That's a fact

00:53:20They can't name the guys in the rotation

00:53:22So it gives people an opportunity to see some guys

00:53:24I don't normally see and look this is year two and we're talking about this like I

00:53:29Know people are bashing it, but I still the idea that we're talking about it so much

00:53:34You got to remember what we were and where we are now

00:53:39I think are two different places

00:53:41where we're putting a little more emphasis on the games in the beginning of the calendar because most the time who cares like

00:53:48You know wake me up when the trade deadline happens or wake me up after all-star weekend

00:53:53Like this gives you a chance to watch in in in live in

00:53:59Important games in November and October like that's the whole point of this whole thing. And I think it's been

00:54:05Successful to varying levels but successful

00:54:08Here's the other thing. I will watch a billion cup games before I watch any NBA game in March

00:54:15That month is a disaster

00:54:18They plug all of the best matchups into the month where half the teams have locked seating and don't care

00:54:24Lost to the Hawks twice by the way

00:54:26Then the other teams are so injured. They're just trying to survive

00:54:31Half the team is tanking trying to get the next draft pick March basketball is

00:54:36Wretched and these games were all for the most part interesting competitive and good

00:54:42That's what we need to aspire to March basketball needs to be obliterated from the NBA and we need more cup games

00:54:48It helps be that we have March Madness at that time. And that's a lot of the focus goes

00:54:55And those those back-to-back Hawk losses one of them was emphasized by DeJounte Mary killing the Celtics

00:55:01one-on-one every single possession on the floor and that was really and then you have the Joe didn't choke it like Tara's ACL or do

00:55:07Something crazy that weekend. He got choked out

00:55:09It's MMA teacher or something like that's the coolest thing

00:55:19You want to know how you know the but the cup has arrived because people are using as a referendum on the Thunder

00:55:24Like I'm there you go

00:55:26when you start building narratives off of something all of a sudden it's got like a little bit more importance because now

00:55:31Like throughout the rest of the season people are gonna say look I get it like yeah

00:55:36She's really good. But like I saw that cup game

00:55:39Yeah, they're gonna use it what's funny about that particular game like it's a gate like it was a game seven because obviously it's you

00:55:45Know winner take all my biggest problem with that game show up my biggest problem that game is how it's being talked about there

00:55:51We're talking about the Thunder missing a ton of threes and it's a stage too big for them blah blah blah

00:55:55We're not talking about how great their perimeter defense was in the second half and if they just hit a couple of shots

00:56:00They were right back in that game

00:56:02The Bucks could not do anything to start their offense until Dame got back on the floor

00:56:08That's how good the perimeter defense was for okay. See in that game. I was I was absolutely and I've watched a little bit

00:56:14Okay, see this year. I've watched a ton

00:56:15I'll be honest about it

00:56:16but the one thing I left that game was like if the Thunder just hit a couple more shots in that game that would have

00:56:20Come back and won that game. No, no question about it. And yeah, we're all gonna sit here talk about how many shots in

00:56:25People like oh the Thunder stank. They're not ready for the big-time stage and I was like shot variants

00:56:31When you're when you're building narrative haters, you know that you've arrived. That's the NBA Cup. There you go

00:56:37Maybe that's the maybe that's the motto. Well, we'll build haters

00:56:41Slogan based around that I like it can use a credit Celtics beat and specifically Matt Moore

00:56:47So Celtics, like I said two games both on the road Chicago, Orlando just before Christmas Christmas break

00:56:54No, they play on Christmas five o'clock right around your dinner time folks at home at the guard

00:57:00I'm sure you know, maybe you'll be be there many of you out there listening

00:57:04Obviously, it'll be sold out and then some Philadelphia and then that you know three more at home to close out

00:57:102024 Indiana twice on the 27th and 29th and then Tuesday the 31st New Year's Eve

00:57:16afternoon game three o'clock against Toronto before we get into

00:57:212025 the last thing that I will ask you Matt because as of right now and it may not change for a little while the

00:57:28Cavaliers

00:57:29Record-wise are at the top of the NBA and we've been having this conversation

00:57:35You know, especially leading into the couple of matchups we've seen between these two teams, but you know, how real are the Cavs?

00:57:41What is their ceiling? Do we take them seriously all of this stuff and

00:57:47Look I'm believer in the Cavs. I don't know that I necessarily believe Cleveland is going to win a championship

00:57:52But I am a believer that like this 23 and 4 record is not fluky

00:57:57I think they'll certainly if they're healthy make a deep playoff run and you know, if they're in the East Finals

00:58:03That's not gonna surprise me in the least but is this a team that you know

00:58:08You're looking at what it's doing right now and saying like yeah

00:58:11I mean this team could win 65 games and and go on a deep playoff run and make life tough for Boston or or

00:58:18You know, whomever it may be if you're a believer in the Bucs getting hot or the Knicks or or again?

00:58:24team X in the East

00:58:26Yeah, I'm a believer that it's like you could you just you judge teams on the resume

00:58:29I think when you start getting into the idea of like, well, I just don't believe this team can do it

00:58:33I just think I'm like where I what's your evidence? How do you know? Because this team isn't last year's team

00:58:38It's different and we don't have any sort of idea

00:58:40Yeah

00:58:40I don't think Mitchell has played nearly to the level he can and I think that he'll have better months ahead of him

00:58:44I think Darius Garland's been great. I think Evan Mobley's been fantastic. I love Jared Allen. They've got a lot of shooters

00:58:50I love my favorite stat is that they are 16 and 1 with Dean Wade and lineup

00:58:5516 and 1 and

00:58:57Everyone laughs. He's really good. He's really good

00:59:01And he had that massive game versus Boston. So, you know, you know what he can do. Um

00:59:07If if the Eastern Conference final started tomorrow and it was Celtics and Cavaliers

00:59:11I would still pick the Celtics because the Cavaliers haven't shown me

00:59:13That they can limit those three pointers that we talked about to begin the show

00:59:17But with a series with time to prepare Kenny Atkinson with the weapons that they have with their ability to attack

00:59:24The Celtics weakness at the rim. Yeah, I think that the Cavaliers are live to upset Boston

00:59:30I've maintained this like you there's a got to be a way to credit Boston for being an incredible team having one of the best

00:59:36regular seasons in NBA history last year winning the title playing selfless excellent basketball and

00:59:42Also be like yeah, but like they're beatable like this team isn't unbeatable

00:59:46and so I do think that various teams are gonna have a shot to knock them off not like

00:59:51They shouldn't be favored Boston has to be favored versus any opponent faces

00:59:55That's what comes with winning a title

00:59:57But I do think that the Cavaliers have a shot if they can put together the right game plan

01:00:02I do think that they're live to knock off Boston

01:00:06No one has had a I can't quote it or I'd get canceled

01:00:09But no one has had a better commentary on Dean Wade than Kevin Garnett

01:00:13And if you know, you know go go and just search for it on Twitter. It's incredible

01:00:18Matt Moore again part of the lockdown family has a sub stack horses from action network on Twitter at HP

01:00:25Basketball and Matt always enjoying your hop on man have to do it again in 25

01:00:30But happy holidays and keep keep enjoying these Boston Celtics. Hey great conversation. Thanks for having me guys

01:00:38Absolutely, we will step aside and let everyone enjoy their holiday break be back with you

01:00:43Before we get to the new year one last sort of deep dive into

01:00:482024 will be on the way, but for Matt for Evan I am Adam. We'll talk to you again next time

01:01:13You

Is Celtics 3-Point Math UNBEATABLE w/ Matt Moore | Celtics Beat

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