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(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Fawad Chaudhry (Senior Leader)
- Brig (R) Haris Nawaz (Defence Analyst)
"Tareekh Aapko Kabhi Maaf Nahi Karegi", Kashif Abbasi's Critical Analysis on PM Shehbaz's Speech
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Fawad Chaudhry (Senior Leader)
- Brig (R) Haris Nawaz (Defence Analyst)
"Tareekh Aapko Kabhi Maaf Nahi Karegi", Kashif Abbasi's Critical Analysis on PM Shehbaz's Speech
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, dear viewers, you are watching the program with Kashif Abbasi.
00:15Today is the Day of Human Rights.
00:18It is surprising that this day is being celebrated in Pakistan as well.
00:22The current state of human rights in Pakistan is that neither do people here consider themselves human nor do they give them rights.
00:31When this news was being broadcast on TV, I opened the TV and saw who was giving a speech.
00:36Mian Shahbaz Sharif, the Prime Minister of Pakistan.
00:39Where are human rights and Mian Shahbaz Sharif is giving a speech on it?
00:43Yes, it is true that where there is a lack of human rights, their government is definitely present.
00:50I thought, what speech will he give today?
00:52When it was broadcast, I sat down to see what he would say about human rights.
00:56I saw that he made young children sit in the front.
00:59He was saying that history will not forgive us.
01:02That is true.
01:03Indeed, Mr. Shahbaz Sharif, history will never forgive you.
01:06What has happened in the name of law and democracy in this country for the past two years?
01:11History will always remember it.
01:13Human rights have been violated in this country anyway.
01:16That is why it was a small speech.
01:18You must have thought that there is a long history of violating human rights.
01:25Obviously, what can be said about human rights?
01:27But the way human rights have been violated in the past two years,
01:32the sacred violation of Chadar and Char Dimali took place.
01:35Restrictions were imposed on expression of opinion.
01:37Political opponents were targeted for the worst revenge.
01:40People's personal lives were affected in the name of protest.
01:44Life and business were destroyed.
01:47People were deprived of civil and political rights.
01:50Elections were held on the pretext of voting.
01:53The right to vote was snatched from the people.
01:55The sovereignty of the people was weakened over the state.
01:59The democratic system was weakened.
02:01The system of justice was weakened.
02:04All this will definitely be remembered in history.
02:08Today, human rights are being violated all over the world.
02:12Today, a press release of ISPR came.
02:14It is a very important press release.
02:17It is about 9th May and General Faiz Hamid's General Court Martial.
02:24There are four or five points which are the most important in this press release.
02:29General Faiz Hamid has been charged with being involved in political activities,
02:39violating the Official Secret Act,
02:42damaging the state's security and interests,
02:46misusing power and government resources,
02:50and unfairly harming individuals.
02:53The most important point is that during the Field Court Martial,
02:59there has been extensive investigation into the violent incidents involving General Faiz Hamid.
03:09Not only that, there are also incidents related to 9th May.
03:16There are also other violent incidents related to 9th May.
03:25In these violent incidents, political dissidents and their allies are also being investigated.
03:32You must have understood.
03:34I think there is justice in this.
03:37They are also being investigated as to what their role is.
03:43As far as 9th May is concerned, I have been giving my personal view for a long time.
03:47It is difficult for states to carry out such cases until they reach a closure.
03:54You saw the incident of Capitol Hill in America.
03:57People have been punished for this.
04:00With transparency, these things should be investigated and punished.
04:06But as I said, with transparency, no one can raise a finger on this.
04:11Mr. Fawad Chaudhary is with us.
04:12Thank you very much, Mr. Fawad.
04:13Brigadier Nawaz is with us.
04:16If you don't mind, I will start with him.
04:18Brigadier Sahab, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
04:20Walaikum-as-Salam.
04:21Sir, is it correct to say that apart from 9th May, are there any other violent incidents that are being investigated by General Faiz?
04:29Absolutely.
04:31If you see, this happened in November when he was appointed as Chief of Army.
04:36This was the case at that time as well.
04:39But the important thing is that he is a senior military officer.
04:43He knows that if you are giving suggestions to any political party leader,
04:52if he is against the interest of army and creates a senior difficulty,
04:57then he should have understood the implications of this incident.
05:02This is very important.
05:04You are a senior appointment officer.
05:06You have been in the army for so long.
05:08You used your PR as an excuse.
05:11You had a toxicity problem.
05:13After that, you are continuously releasing this.
05:15It is a proof that whatever action you were taking was based on instructions.
05:21You are doing it together with other political leaders.
05:24You see, there are so many senior officers who are appointed by the army.
05:28All of these have already been proved.
05:30Sir, you are saying that all of these have already been proved.
05:34Yes.
05:37Sir, you are saying that whatever has been written,
05:40there must be enough evidence, it must have been proven,
05:42that is why it has been brought to the press release.
05:45There is no such thing against such a senior officer.
05:51And the release that has been written,
05:54it is a proof to a great extent that Bani PTR, their leader,
05:59was giving them instructions and they were following it.
06:02Which is very clear.
06:03See, the army is a very well-organized force.
06:06It is very well-disciplined.
06:08If you put pressure on the army,
06:10it has the stakes of Pakistan's security and survival.
06:14It is a matter of sovereignty of Pakistan.
06:16It is happening in a disciplined country.
06:18If you look at the order in the army,
06:20this is why it is said that the command force,
06:22there is only one commander.
06:24If you look at the entire army,
06:25Chief Army Staff, General Assam News,
06:27all the commanders will be there from morning.
06:29You have been a senior appointment officer.
06:31You have been a senior commander.
06:32You have been a force commander.
06:33You have been a DSP as well.
06:34If you talk about knowingly implication,
06:37it is very serious.
06:38This is very serious.
06:39I agree about it.
06:40See, I said this,
06:41if it is done with transparency,
06:44I am sure you will put the proof in front of people
06:48and people will be able to see.
06:51But other than 9th May,
06:53are there any other incidents being investigated?
06:57Which are those, Mr. Biggidi?
06:59The appointment of Chief Ambassador in November, he was there with them, he told them what will happen, what will happen, what will be the problems, I don't want to name, he was there with them.
07:11And on every occasion, he would give instructions.
07:14And the team that was with him, some of the brigadiers were also there, they were with Karan Singh.
07:18When he gave the evidence, the subject should have been settled.
07:22I can, I am sure that even General Faiz Amir said that yes, I was doing all this on the behest of Bani PTA.
07:30Or the underground leaders were also doing this to me.
07:33And see, the thing is...
07:35Sir, but behest of PTA, when you are saying, at the behest of Imran Khan, Bani PTA as you call him, his name is Imran Khan.
07:42If you say this, then you will have to prove it somewhere, to General Faiz.
07:48Because when you say behest, General Faiz is not an innocent child.
07:53General Faiz DG ISI, which is one or two such positions in Pakistan.
07:59After hearing his name, everyone gets worried that he was DG ISI.
08:04And he is saying that at the behest of, he must have something of his own in it.
08:09No, no, not his own, tell me why is he being court-martialed?
08:13Sir, when he is saying this, his multi-charges, his biggest charge is that after retirement,
08:21for two years, you cannot be involved in any political activity.
08:26This is a basic charge, main charge.
08:28Sir, but see, I keep saying this is between the institution and the individual who has left the institution.
08:34The main focus in this press release will be the last two points,
08:409th of May and other violent incidents and their connection with Imran Khan.
08:49This is probably the main focus.
08:51Rest, you are punishing your General.
08:54It is a historical fact that a former DG ISI has never been punished or court-martialed.
09:00So, this in itself is a big development.
09:03But I think the focus will come on these two issues.
09:06Yes, Kashif, the thing is that when the press release came that he is beyond doubt,
09:11means that this must have been proved.
09:14And the team that was with him, and after that General Fahad Ali himself must have said,
09:19and this also means that he is also involved.
09:23And the infrastructure that was given to him for the national propaganda,
09:26for the armed forces, to create a divide between our forces and the people of Pakistan,
09:31and within the army.
09:34See, this is very serious.
09:36The armed forces of Pakistan are currently controlling very serious terrorist activities.
09:44After that, the situation in the country, which is a narrative enemy,
09:48that divide the army in the air.
09:50This trolling is also happening.
09:52And what happened in the 6th generation war?
09:54You first break the will of the nation to fight.
09:57This is the first segment of the 6th generation war.
10:00After that, thank God, the army and the people together defeated it.
10:06But because of this, this also ultimately gave an excuse that my own decision,
10:12it's not my talking about anybody else.
10:14And the few people who were with him, the political leaders,
10:17they were also involved.
10:19And these things must have been proved to a large extent.
10:21The rest will come on the court martial.
10:25And they will see that the demands of justice are met.
10:27All rights will be taken.
10:28All patients are witnesses of cleanliness.
10:30The defense has a lawyer of its own.
10:32Sir, because there is an acceptable political party involved in this,
10:36according to this press release, or explicitly, as you are saying.
10:40And it is also being said that there are incidents and there is a mutual support.
10:44Due to the presence of the political party and Mr. Imran Khan,
10:50its proofs should be beyond doubt.
10:53He said, she said, you know that this,
10:56because whenever it comes to a political party,
11:00transparency will matter a lot in that.
11:03Kashyap has talked about it.
11:05See, that's why transparency will matter.
11:08He has a remedy.
11:10If there is any injustice here,
11:14which I didn't expect,
11:16then he can go to the High Court and everything will go there.
11:21It will come again, absolutely.
11:23So it won't stop here.
11:25But do you think that Mr. Imran Khan will be brought in the middle?
11:28Multicourt.
11:29I am not only involved with Imran Khan,
11:31but there will also be some political leaders,
11:33in which audio, video, evidence will be available.
11:36All these things will be there.
11:38All the indicators will be there.
11:40That is my perception as an individual.
11:42Absolutely.
11:43Mr. Brigade, thank you very much.
11:45And Mr. Fawad, what was your first reaction when you saw the press release?
11:51No, there are two parts to it.
11:53One part is that…
11:54One is that the army is in the middle,
11:56in the middle of General Faiz,
11:57in which there is an official secret act,
11:59and you have done this and that.
12:00No, they have also done the Drain Dain,
12:02basically the issue of the Housing Society,
12:05Top City.
12:06Top City.
12:07Top City, this matter.
12:08They are saying that we have started a court martial on it.
12:10The second part is that an investigation is going on it.
12:13So these two are basically part.
12:16The second part,
12:17the second part,
12:18the way you have asked Mr. Brigade,
12:20whether it is related to PTI or not,
12:22the way your perception is,
12:23they have said that it is related to PTI.
12:25You yourself have said that
12:26the evidence that will come in it,
12:28we will see.
12:29And it will be very critical
12:30because Mr. Fawad,
12:31this is a political party.
12:32Generally, political parties,
12:34because there are followers,
12:36then you will have to make sure of transparency
12:39that the evidence is incontrovertible.
12:41No problem.
12:42What is the transparency in all the other cases that are going on?
12:45All the cases that are going on Imran Khan,
12:48or the cases that are going on PTI,
12:50it is obvious that the standard of evidence in them,
12:52see, the issue at the moment is that
12:55Pakistan's politics is in turmoil.
12:59Now, look at this decision,
13:01you and I cannot decide
13:03that we have to put Pakistan's politics
13:06in further turmoil
13:09or we have to normalize it.
13:11Look at the first decision,
13:13you have to do this,
13:14the people in power will do it.
13:16You and I cannot do it,
13:17we are small fish.
13:19What did you see in the last year,
13:20especially in the last year?
13:22Look at it in two years,
13:23what happened in two years?
13:24In two years,
13:25there was a lot of criticism in Pakistan.
13:27Now, look at Imran Khan.
13:29Yes, but if you look at one thing
13:32that you have seen evident in the last two years,
13:35it is that you cannot talk to Imran Khan.
13:37Imran Khan is,
13:39he will stay where he is.
13:41Generally, in all this time,
13:43Mian Nawaz Sharif has gone out of Pakistan.
13:45People's leaders have come out.
13:47This is the problem,
13:48it has come out of syllabus.
13:49Actually, the issue is that,
13:50see, in order to bring Imran Khan down
13:52or to bring him down
13:54or to end his political position,
13:57PTI was terminated.
13:59In order to end his PTI,
14:02then People's Party and Noon were terminated
14:04because they terminated their own politics.
14:07Then after that,
14:08secondly, you see,
14:09you had to terminate Judiciary.
14:11You started with Anti-Terrorism Court,
14:13then went to High Court,
14:14then you terminated the Supreme Court in the 26th Amendment.
14:17In Pakistan,
14:18political, administrative and judicial
14:21is not such a big crisis
14:23in Pakistan's 76 years of history.
14:26I am sure,
14:27the people who are ruling,
14:29or when,
14:30I and you have the advantage,
14:32for many years,
14:33we have been seeing in governments,
14:35there it is said,
14:36Sir, it is amazing,
14:37everything is fine.
14:38Even now,
14:39I think,
14:40the situation will be,
14:41I am guessing,
14:42it will be that,
14:43see, we have terminated Imran Khan's street power.
14:46He has no status left.
14:48People don't come out.
14:49People don't come out.
14:50They say, they are left alone.
14:51Party is fighting.
14:52So, it is a vote.
14:54We have not come from the vote.
14:55We have not come from the vote before.
14:56We will see when it comes.
14:58For now,
14:59we will see later.
15:01To give the world human rights.
15:03To give the world human rights.
15:04This is what is going on.
15:05Okay, but see,
15:06there is a problem in this.
15:07The problem is that,
15:08see, you,
15:09even in PTI,
15:10let me tell you this,
15:12to terminate the rule of Noon League and People's Party,
15:15is a big loss for Pakistan.
15:17Three party system is a good system.
15:19Good system.
15:20It was a system of checks and balances.
15:21No, and what is its advantage?
15:23People's Party, Noon League and PTI,
15:25their advantage is,
15:26they are not militant.
15:27They don't have guns.
15:29They talk about Federation.
15:30They talk about Pakistan.
15:32They have powerhouses in their provinces,
15:34but they are Pakistan's party.
15:36Now, the problem is that,
15:38when you tried to bring Imran Khan down,
15:41and in that situation,
15:42you terminated PTI.
15:43Now, Punjab,
15:44you have handed over to religious extremists.
15:46The vacuum that will be created here,
15:48in this, religious extremists,
15:49they too have guns.
15:51KP and Balochistan,
15:52you have given them to ultra-nationalists,
15:54they too have guns.
15:55KP is with Tehreek-e-Insaf.
15:57No.
15:58If it comes out of them, then...
15:59When you will come out,
16:00the alternate that you are creating,
16:01they will have guns.
16:04But PTI is also,
16:05I don't think,
16:06a party with guns.
16:07No.
16:08The TTP there,
16:09174 people were martyred in a month.
16:11But it's not a political force.
16:14It's a militant force.
16:15But ultimately,
16:16they will be a political force.
16:17The reason,
16:18whether it's me,
16:19or the people of PTI,
16:21or even the people of PTI in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
16:25they don't have guns.
16:27They can't climb with guns.
16:29But the problem is that,
16:32when you take people like us out of politics,
16:36then it won't be that there won't be opposition.
16:39Then your opposition will be like you,
16:41with guns.
16:42Then I think,
16:43the opposition will have what they can tolerate.
16:46No.
16:47What they can fight.
16:48What they can tolerate.
16:49If they can tolerate violence,
16:50then it will be tough.
16:51Because politics,
16:52look,
16:53I am a politician.
16:54If I get space,
16:55I will be able to do politics.
16:57If I don't get space,
16:58I won't be able to do it.
16:59We can't climb mountains.
17:01We can't carry guns.
17:02But when you eliminate us,
17:04then you will have that kind of opposition.
17:06Now,
17:07the problem here is that,
17:09this narrative,
17:10which is being told,
17:11that the economy has improved a lot.
17:13Macroeconomic indicators.
17:15Macroeconomic.
17:16Someone told me,
17:17I was very happy,
17:18when someone said,
17:19inflation has increased by 4%.
17:22I was very happy.
17:23I said,
17:24thank God,
17:25inflation has decreased.
17:26He said,
17:27inflation has not decreased.
17:28Earlier,
17:29inflation was increasing by 20%.
17:31Two years ago,
17:32the price was the same.
17:33Today,
17:34the price is the same.
17:35Look,
17:36it has increased by 4% or 4.5%.
17:37It will increase.
17:38Inflation will increase at this rate.
17:39That's what it is.
17:40No,
17:41and that too since last year.
17:42Because last year,
17:43inflation was very high.
17:44It reached 23%.
17:45So,
17:46they said,
17:47it will be above 4%.
17:48Now,
17:49look,
17:50the issue in Pakistan,
17:51is prevailing,
17:52that in Pakistan,
17:53you can...
17:54But do you think,
17:55this,
17:56looking at this press release,
17:58I understand their position also.
18:00If,
18:01they have,
18:02evidences,
18:03this is,
18:04obviously,
18:059th May,
18:06and apart from that,
18:07they are talking about extreme incidents.
18:08That's why,
18:09I was asking again and again,
18:10apart from May,
18:11what other incidents happened?
18:12Do you remember,
18:13any incident,
18:14in which people fell,
18:15bodies fell?
18:16Not that I know.
18:17I don't remember.
18:18So,
18:19this means,
18:20there are some incidents,
18:21which have been investigated,
18:22apart from these.
18:23And,
18:24they are from the same period,
18:25in the same period.
18:26But,
18:27the way you said in the beginning,
18:28that this is an internal matter of the army,
18:29they should know,
18:30they should proceed,
18:31as they feel appropriate.
18:32But,
18:33the problem,
18:34our problem,
18:35is that,
18:36what...
18:37But,
18:38after this,
18:39do you think,
18:40the space will be more,
18:41I mean,
18:42will there be more strictness?
18:43Now,
18:44the case will go to the military court,
18:45right?
18:46Look,
18:47we don't know,
18:48that in this,
18:49the PTI,
18:50which is to be imposed on Imran Khan,
18:51if that is done,
18:52then,
18:53obviously,
18:54it will be done.
18:55So,
18:56if you want to make it more volatile,
18:57then,
18:58obviously,
18:59what can we do?
19:00If we want to do it,
19:01then it will be done.
19:02Now,
19:03the problem here,
19:04is that,
19:05the space,
19:06of politics,
19:07that is not there before.
19:08Now,
19:09as a result of this,
19:10the space will be less.
19:11Less,
19:12you are doing your politics?
19:13Yes,
19:14very less.
19:15But,
19:16it will be less.
19:17Now,
19:18in that,
19:19you see,
19:20I don't understand,
19:21that,
19:22the challenges we have,
19:23the challenges of politics,
19:25how will they be managed?
19:27What is the management?
19:29Right now,
19:30the first thing,
19:31is that,
19:32my point of view,
19:33or your point of view,
19:34and the people in the government,
19:35their point of view,
19:36there is a difference.
19:37They think that,
19:38no,
19:39this is going in the right direction in Pakistan.
19:41My,
19:42humble opinion,
19:44that humble opinion,
19:46is that,
19:47no,
19:48in Pakistan,
19:49in the court,
19:50right now,
19:51the confidence,
19:52confidence has become zero.
19:53In terms of management,
19:54confidence has become zero.
19:55No,
19:56but anyway,
19:57Mr. Fawad,
19:58coming back to the break,
19:59what is the direction?
20:00What is the direction?
20:01Where people,
20:02after seeing something,
20:03are hopeful.
20:04Yesterday,
20:05I,
20:06your,
20:07Chairman Naib,
20:08had a conversation,
20:09in a speech,
20:10that people are going abroad.
20:111.2 million,
20:1212 lakh people,
20:13have left Pakistan.
20:14And,
20:15they were worried about,
20:16how will they get the money out of Pakistan?
20:17They should have been worried about,
20:18how will they get the money out of Pakistan?
20:19They should have been worried about,
20:20why are they going abroad from Pakistan?
20:21What is the situation?
20:22That's what direction is.
20:23That's what hope is.
20:24Absolutely.
20:25Why do people go to America?
20:26He said,
20:27a sentence is used about America.
20:28Land of dreams.
20:29That you,
20:30can dream of going to that country.
20:31There is hope.
20:32It is possible,
20:33that a taxi driver,
20:34drives a taxi all the time,
20:35and nothing changes in his life.
20:36But,
20:37at least he can,
20:38there is a hope,
20:39that I can change my life.
20:40That's what hope is,
20:41in a country.
20:42So,
20:43this,
20:44this,
20:45this,
20:46this,
20:47this,
20:48this,
20:49International Hope In a Country.
20:50Let me tell you one last thing,
20:51This Israel's success,
20:53it is because
20:56people from all over the world,
20:57go to America.
20:58But,
20:59people from outside Israel,
21:00never go.
21:01They are theirs own.
21:02Their success has been,
21:05that from 1985 onwards,
21:06their top brains,
21:07have been kept in their country.
21:11thereby,
21:12they tried to,
21:13set an order.
21:14Bring stars,
21:15Bring things.
21:16So,
21:17from 1985 onwards,
21:18The economy of India has completely changed and in communication and IT, they stopped the brain drain that was happening and went ahead on their own people.
21:31Pakistan also had this chance. India also did the same. India let people go.
21:35India let them go outside but their own brain…
21:38And then it took many years to bring them back and now they have done this thing again.
21:42The problem here is that people need to understand that when your brain goes out…
21:47So your brain is not going out, ideas are going out.
21:50That thought is going out, the thought that runs the country, it takes it forward.
21:55You call it start-ups. They take chances.
21:58Ideas come.
21:59And who do they pick up? Who do the companies pick up?
22:02They pick up Tom Brains.
22:04And we are not able to understand this. Let's take a break. We will be back after the break.
22:11Welcome back Nazeer. Mr. Fawad Chaudhary is with us.
22:14Civil disobedience. I remember 2014.
22:17I remember one day Mr. Imran Khan said, I will make such an announcement tomorrow.
22:21We will tear you to pieces.
22:23Civil disobedience which was a big failure.
22:26Because the first thing people don't understand is what is civil disobedience.
22:29What you want and it can be successful in some specific circumstances.
22:34It's not that you endlessly say that we will live without electricity, we will not pay the bill.
22:38Do you think it's a good idea?
22:40But the problem is not what the tactics are.
22:43The problem is what options have you left?
22:45The 8-900 years that we have established this democracy, what have we done in this?
22:51We have created institutions of conflict resolution.
22:54We have decided that the vote will decide who will govern.
22:58On 8th we voted, on 9th we changed the vote.
23:01After that we decided that the judiciary will decide.
23:04Now in front of you, what happened to the families of the anti-terrorism judges,
23:08what happened to the judges of the High Court, what happened to the Chief Justice of the Lahore High Court,
23:13you have finished the Supreme Court.
23:15The state of the ECP is in front of you.
23:18The state of the Speaker's Office is in front of you.
23:21The state of the Chairman's Senate Office is in front of you.
23:23The problem is that when you have destroyed all the institutions of conflict resolution,
23:28now you are saying that we should close people in the room.
23:32After that, close the doors and windows.
23:35People are not able to breathe.
23:37Now if they don't scream, if they don't protest, then what should we do?
23:40The problem is that there is no option left.
23:43Now Imran Khan, let's say, I have tried to make an option today that there should be a national government.
23:49I want to come to that.
23:50But if you allow me, let's come to this first.
23:53Because I am not directly talking about a national government, but Faisal Wada Sahab is also talking about it.
23:57So suddenly this topic has started.
23:59Before going to that, what you are saying about civil disobedience,
24:02the idea is that you are saying that no one has left the option.
24:05So we will protest.
24:06Agreed.
24:07But protest.
24:08You are saying that this is not a tactic.
24:10There are forms of protest.
24:12This is not a form that can be successful.
24:14Like on 24th November, a call was given, do or die.
24:19When you leave after making such tall claims,
24:23the bullet was fired, it was fired from here.
24:26But suddenly, now you are one step, two steps behind, behind the 8th wall politically.
24:32See, it is not a political issue.
24:35Politically, you broke the assemblies,
24:37and broke the perception that there is Pakistan's constitution,
24:40you cannot go beyond that.
24:41You went beyond the constitution.
24:43You gave a call on 24th, thinking that you will not fire bullets at your own people.
24:47You did not fire bullets there.
24:48Now the problem here is that there is no moral compass, no legal compass left.
24:54So because of that, the conflict is taking a strange form, taking a strange turn.
25:00Now these two years are not that much time for the nations.
25:03Now all these events that have taken place in Pakistan in two years,
25:06these happen in 14-14 years, in 10-10 years, in 8-8 years.
25:10Here it has only been two years.
25:12So now I don't know, frankly, that this simmering,
25:16this boiling in a society, there is no issue with it.
25:22And all this will end, water will be added,
25:24and we will all start living happily again.
25:28See, this is a problem.
25:30So I don't know if we need to increase our temperature.
25:34But do you think people realize this is a problem?
25:37No, I don't think so.
25:38They don't realize that this is a problem.
25:40Because yesterday, two-three days ago,
25:42especially after the government,
25:43you see, the face of the government is the one who is making statements.
25:46You see, we have got an opportunity,
25:50let's say the weak position is right,
25:52but they are ready to negotiate.
25:54There should be a discussion on that.
25:56Generally, in democracies,
25:58the issue of solving problems,
26:00as you said, is a matter of conflict resolution.
26:02It is not in our country.
26:03Why do you think that they say that
26:05they have formed a committee of five people,
26:07it has been four-five days since the committee was formed,
26:09but no one has contacted them yet.
26:11Is it because they don't want to contact them?
26:15See, the issue is that if I am advising the PTI,
26:18then I will tell them not to negotiate with the government for now.
26:22You go and negotiate with the JUI.
26:24You talk to the Jamaat-e-Islami,
26:26with the GDA.
26:27First, when the five parties will come together,
26:31after that, you tell the government that
26:33if you want to talk, then you can come.
26:35Now the problem is that the parliament…
26:37But see, the thing that you want to bring them together,
26:40perhaps all the political parties should not get together on that.
26:42No, they will get together on this.
26:44See, all these parties have an agreement on the elections on 18th February.
26:49All these parties have an agreement on the operation of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
26:53All these parties have an agreement on the political situation of Pakistan.
26:58But the plan of action is different for everyone.
27:00The plan of action will be together.
27:01Tariq-e-Insaab wants to take physical action.
27:04No, even the JUI said that yesterday.
27:06But they are on some other issue.
27:08They don't want to come on this issue.
27:09On the issue, there will be their own politics,
27:12but you will decide on a big politics, right?
27:15When you were getting together on a big politics on 26th January,
27:19the question is that if they create their own alliance first,
27:23and then, like when you are talking about tactics,
27:26when you make your alliance and go towards the government,
27:29then your position will be different.
27:31So, I think, and I also told Mr. Khan that
27:34see, you made a big mistake when PTI did not run Tariq on 9th February.
27:38Now you cannot run Tariq alone.
27:41And he agreed with me that it is absolutely right.
27:43A very big opportunity was wasted on 9th February.
27:46Now, the issue is that there are two problems now.
27:50The problem is that, as I said earlier in your program,
27:54Imran Khan is not being managed by the government,
27:57and Imran Khan and PTI are not managing the revolution.
28:00And Pakistan is getting involved in this.
28:04Now, to get out of this, you need some ideas to give space to each other.
28:12But personally, I think that the government is on this formula
28:18that until you collect your street power,
28:21you cannot give us a proper challenge, a physical challenge.
28:25You are saying that PTI wants to give a physical challenge,
28:28but they do not want to give the rest.
28:30See, the government also does not accept any challenge other than a physical challenge.
28:33They say that we have done it, you can come and open it if you can.
28:36But there is also a role of the government in all this.
28:39The role of the government is that they have been outplayed politically.
28:43It is over politically.
28:45They will have to give space to PTI.
28:47They will not only have to give space to PTI,
28:49if they have to give space, they will have to give space to the government.
28:51And maybe they will have to give space to the entire government.
28:53Their biggest fear is that politics is over,
28:56and they will also put them in jail.
28:58So, this is their problem.
28:59They say that we have to finish them.
29:01We do not want to talk to them.
29:03Talking to them means that our lottery is over,
29:05our government is over, and we are in jail.
29:07When Mr. Rana met Mr. Fazl-ur-Rehman,
29:11Mr. Fazl-ur-Rehman told him to release Imran Khan
29:15and also think about the new elections.
29:17So, what you are saying,
29:19if you are saying that we should release him,
29:22it means that this system will end.
29:24And if this system ends and there is an election,
29:26it means that Imran Khan will win more than Tudhar.
29:28So, you tell me, should we give Imran Khan a sword or should we kill him?
29:32So, this thing…
29:36They have made it a survival fight.
29:39Now, see, this is what I am saying that
29:41the PTI will have to give space to the political parties,
29:44to its opponents, to say that…
29:49See, the thing is that Imran Khan…
29:57There is no doubt.
29:58If you say that People's Party and PMLN and other parties,
30:02the way they want to kill the PTI,
30:05the PTI will also say that let's release them.
30:07So, see, this cannot happen.
30:08This is why your national government should fit in this.
30:11What is your idea of a national government?
30:13My idea of a national government only is that
30:15you will bring down the temperature first.
30:17How will you make a national government?
30:19I have said that these three,
30:22Mr. Zardari, Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan
30:24and the rest, Mr. Fazl-ur-Rehman,
30:26take two names from them for the new Prime Minister.
30:29But do you realize that
30:30they do not agree with anything on the caretaker?
30:33Now, which name will they agree on?
30:35No, these names can be made.
30:36In my opinion, Mr. Fazl-ur-Rehman could be a good choice.
30:39In my opinion, Mehmood Ajagzai could be a good choice.
30:41Mehmood Ajagzai could be a good choice.
30:43In my opinion, Mustafa Nawaz Koker could be a good choice.
30:45Will you accept the establishment?
30:47No, the thing is that…
30:48See, you are talking about the parties.
30:50You are not talking about the three parties.
30:51You are talking about all the parties.
30:52The establishment will also give.
30:53The establishment will give the name of Faisal Borda
30:55and the establishment will give the name of someone.
30:57Yes, but it should be acceptable for everyone.
31:00The establishment will give the name of Mohsin Naqvi.
31:02Let two names come.
31:03There are big names.
31:04If you take the names now, then…
31:07All I am saying is the problem of acceptability.
31:09There are names with acceptability.
31:11It is not like this.
31:12It is a country of 25 crores.
31:13It is not possible that there are no names with acceptability.
31:15There can be names with acceptability
31:17when the discussion starts.
31:19You have not given your name.
31:20No, I am not in it.
31:22I am not in the list.
31:23But there are names with acceptability.
31:26There will definitely be names with acceptability.
31:27And if they come,
31:29if they come for a year,
31:31and in the ninth month,
31:32you start the election process,
31:33what will happen in 12 months?
31:34The thing has come again,
31:35which Mr. Dhanraj has answered,
31:36which I am saying.
31:37After six months,
31:38seven months,
31:39or even after ten months,
31:40he has to be Zaba
31:41and he knows that he has to be Zaba.
31:43He has to be Roast after this.
31:44No, no.
31:45See, this will bring the temperature down.
31:46See, if you say Imran Khan…
31:47When the temperature comes down…
31:48If Imran Khan comes out of jail,
31:49then what will happen in Pakistan?
31:50At this time,
31:51it is obvious that the temperature is very high.
31:53At this time…
31:54And if Imran Khan comes out,
31:55then Imran Khan will rule these streets.
31:58Yes, yes.
31:59So who will tolerate him?
32:01See, this is what I am saying.
32:02For that,
32:03you have to bring the temperature down.
32:05Right now,
32:06your temperature is so high
32:08that you will have an election in it.
32:11You are afraid that Imran Khan
32:13will win the two-thirds majority.
32:15You will make an effort,
32:17that in one year,
32:18the Non-League People's Party
32:19will make its effort.
32:20Now, it is not possible
32:21that you will say
32:22that we have nothing to do,
32:23we have nothing to do with politics.
32:25We will always rule like this.
32:27This is not possible.
32:28See,
32:29the establishment has a problem.
32:30The establishment has a problem
32:32that they have given Non-League People's Party
32:34all the facilities they could have.
32:37The case is over.
32:38The president was made
32:39on 27 seats in the election.
32:41The Prime Minister was made
32:42on 18 seats.
32:43They helped them a lot
32:44in the governance.
32:45They even finished the judiciary.
32:47But Mr. Shahbaz Sharif
32:48is not enough
32:49just to deliver.
32:51Mr. Shahbaz Sharif
32:52and Mr. Zardari
32:53this duo,
32:54this couple,
32:55this group,
32:57the way they have failed,
32:59how long will the establishment
33:00bear their burden?
33:02The establishment
33:03has also...
33:04Mr. Wada is also saying the same thing.
33:05Yes, he is also saying the same thing.
33:06Mr. Wada,
33:07is this the plan
33:10that led to this?
33:12And now you are talking about it?
33:13Look, we don't know
33:14that Mr. Wada...
33:15Look, in the establishment,
33:16I think that
33:17at this time,
33:18in the establishment
33:19or in the government,
33:20I don't think
33:21that they need anything right now.
33:23They understand
33:24that this system
33:25should continue.
33:26It should continue like this.
33:27Look,
33:28I am talking
33:29and you were talking
33:30that there is a need
33:31to create space.
33:32There is a need
33:33to normalize Pakistan.
33:34To normalize,
33:35for some time,
33:36you will have to make
33:37such a government
33:38on which everyone
33:39has consensus.
33:40What I have seen
33:41in the last few days,
33:42Mr. Wada,
33:43it's not about normalizing.
33:44It's about control.
33:45And control
33:46the way
33:47it is being done
33:48right now.
33:49The way there is control right now,
33:50it should continue.
33:51To normalize means
33:52to give you space,
33:53to give them space,
33:54not to give them space.
33:55There is no control.
33:56There is no control.
33:57Look, if you...
33:58Control is that
33:59when you...
34:00There is forced control
34:01but there is.
34:02No, there is a problem.
34:03The problem is
34:04that your control
34:05is that
34:06you are making the country
34:07look normal
34:08to others as well.
34:09Not only to those
34:10who are in the government,
34:11but to others as well.
34:12Now, you just told
34:13that 12 lakh people
34:14left Pakistan
34:15last year
34:16as Mr. Nehab told
34:17that they left Pakistan.
34:18Investment in Pakistan
34:19is not ready to be done
34:20by the Pakistanis.
34:21The whole system
34:22is very shaky.
34:23Now, if the people
34:24sitting in the government
34:25insist that
34:26no, this system is
34:27forced,
34:28then see,
34:29we can't do anything.
34:30But in our opinion,
34:31in my opinion,
34:32Pakistan needs to
34:33bring the temperature
34:34down
34:35and give each other
34:36some space
34:37to normalize.
34:38Otherwise,
34:39the temperature
34:40in Pakistan
34:41will rise even more.
34:42And this
34:43simmering,
34:44this small
34:45light fire
34:46that is lit,
34:47when will it boil
34:48and go away?
34:49Then what will
34:50its own consequences be?
34:51Then you can't
34:52control it.
34:53The situation
34:54that politics
34:55is going through,
34:56I always sit
34:57and talk,
34:58then any trigger.
34:59Anything can trigger.
35:00Something will trigger.
35:01And this line
35:02is invisible.
35:03This line is invisible.
35:04Nobody knows
35:05that some
35:06big events
35:07get digested
35:08and small events
35:09don't get digested.
35:10See,
35:11no one can
35:12predict that
35:13if this line
35:14crosses,
35:15then this will happen.
35:16It's an unpredictable line.
35:17And this
35:18line crosses.
35:19It's a
35:20line that
35:21will be
35:22in the
35:23hands
35:24of
35:25the
35:26people
35:27and
35:28the
35:29people
35:30in the
35:31country.
35:32And
35:33this line
35:34will
35:35be
35:36in the
35:37hands
35:38of
35:39the
35:40people
35:41in the
35:42country.
35:43And
35:44this line
35:45will be
35:46terms?
35:47Baaki toh government aake de de na. Government apni committee banaya wo kahege ki do terms
35:51aapne deti hain, teen humari hain. Toh baachit toh iste rahi shuru hoti hain na. Mere khayal
35:55mein toh dekhen hai. Aur phir isme dekhen hai chaar log jo hain wo cum as count reasonably
36:01good politicians hain. Umar Ayub hain, Asad Qaisar sahab hain, Ali Ameen Gandapur hain,
36:08Sahibzada sahab hain, Fazal Kareem. Toh cum as count yeh hain ki yeh politicians hain.
36:12Hamid Khazra sahab.
36:13Sahibzada Hamid Khazra sahab.
36:14Fazal Kareem bhai.
36:15Toh humara toh khair bada hoon se.
36:18Humari na bada khair ho gaye.
36:20Fazal Kareem sahab se. Toh isliye. Toh Hamid Khazra sahab jo hain unhone yeh, ab yeh log
36:24hain. Mere khayal mein yeh log agar isko pull up kar sake. Aur abhi mujhe lagta hai ki
36:29dekhen meri nazar mein unko opposition se baat karein.
36:32Mujha nahi lagta saab.
36:33Baat nahi hoga.
36:34Teh liye opposition se toh baat karein na.
36:35Haan.
36:36Opposition se baat karein.
36:37Opposition se baat karein. Unh toh di isko apne saath ek.
36:40Ab jo aap baat karein na, diffuse karne ka ek agenda isme add karne ke liye.
36:43Allah hafiz zara temperature neeche laate hain.
36:44Hukumat ko bhi ye agenda deyen.
36:45Phir ho sakta baat hukumat bhi karne pe tyaar ho jayega.
36:47Ki bahut shukriya.
36:48Fahad Chaudhary ji.
36:49Guftu baat me se unhe jaaz deeji.
36:50Allah hafiz.