La justicia aguarda la finalización de tres pericias claves para avanzar en una investigación en curso. Los resultados de los peritajes psicológicos realizados a Macarena Peña se esperan para la primera semana de diciembre. Las miradas están puestas sobre Carlos Pérez y Victoria Caillava, quienes están bajo sospecha, así como el misterioso contacto entre Caillava y el comisario del pueblo, Walter Maciel.
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00:00The judicial sources that we consulted in the course of the morning assure us that there are key cases that the justice is waiting for and we have the approximate dates of when the justice will finally have three cases that are absolutely key to the investigation.
00:27It is difficult for the judge to make a decision without the details of the cases that we are going to tell you, which are missing and which surprise us for the time they have taken.
00:39First of all, in the first week of December, the psychological inquiries will be concluded, which have already been made to Macarena Peña and Camila Peña.
00:59That is the first data that the justice is waiting for, but there are two other elements that are very important and now you will understand why.
01:11One of them is the accidental tests. We said, but since the hypothesis of the accident was not eliminated, well, no. Accidental tests are being waited for that result from the federal investigation to make a determination regarding the detainees.
01:29And also, if not the most important of all the tests, the geolocation of cell phones, which had been requested three or four months ago, but will only be arriving in the last week of December and will be decisive for what the justice said.
01:47Yes, you will also remember that at some point there was a request from the judge to try to locate the phones in a satellite way and that very early on it was said that it was discarded, that it was not going to be feasible.
02:02There was a differentiation in those satellite images about what are civil use satellites, which give you very general images, and those that are military use satellites, which may have a greater specificity, but of course, there must also be a prior requirement for the satellite to be positioned according to what is later monitored.
02:30Well, among all that, they tell me that they quickly said, no, it is discarded, they do not rule it out, they do not rule it out at all. So, among what the most profound experiments can give, the ones that are done here in the city of Buenos Aires, that is why they explain to us that it takes so long.
02:45Not because they are in the city of Buenos Aires, but because they are sent, they get together, here the department of expertise works with this cause, and many more that are in progress. So that's why they take so long. And it may be key for us to put the magnifying glass on what we are going to put the magnifying glass on.
03:02Of course, because today we talked in production that there are different possible levels of responsibilities in this matter. The first ones we have already worked on, related to Benítez, Millapi and Fierrito, which would be the first circle in relation to the boy there in Naranjal.
03:19But what happens when we continue to read the statements in the cause, especially of important characters who participated in the investigation. For example, Héctor Rodríguez, who is the commissioner, possibly the most knowledgeable in this type of investigation, above Maciel himself, he is the Director of Investigations of the province of Corrientes.
03:40When one analyzes that statement, which was taken again 48 hours ago and on which there is absolute hermeticism, because we consult every day and they tell me absolute hermeticism with the second statement of Rodríguez, but we have the first one in which we get a lot of information.
03:59Let's tell people, before going over it in detail, how we got to this. I like to tell the backstory of how our production works and how the two visible faces you have here in front of the camera work. Pablo Ponzoni, who speaks to you.
04:13You remember that we brought you in full exclusive what had to do with a dialogue between Audelina, who had the value of being spontaneous, and Commissioner Héctor Rodríguez, where they record her and where she has that value.
04:27Not knowing that they are recording her and that they are almost lynching her, one assumes that there may be a value of presumption of truth, not something scripted. She is scared, she is worried, they almost lynched her and Macarena, then she starts talking.
04:41By diving into the statement, this is how obsessive our production is, this is how we are, we begin to find other issues that have to do with the theory of the case of the investigators. We already left that audio that gave account of the theory of the accident and so we come to this that now we are going to tell you and we are going to review.
04:59It is very interesting that they follow us in this that we are going to show you because clearly here there is a key, which is regarding how they could have abducted the baby, no longer in the orange tree, we are talking directly about 300 meters, 350 meters from Catalina's house and also a succession of events that occur immediately after they attract attention.
05:25Look, the dogs, says Commissioner Héctor Rodríguez, the dogs gave references about the Ford Ranger that the baby would have been in that vehicle. The prosecutor learned about these experiences and requires the arrest of Pérez y Callava, so they are arrested. What will happen next?
05:42Within the spectrum, and pay attention to this, within the spectrum of the communications that Héctor Rodríguez analyzed, it seems that Benítez gave immediate news that the baby was lost. When one analyzes that story, each one makes a reference and a story of what the address was and where all the protagonists went.
06:07Here, here, stop to realize what I have recorded in my memory. That first call, which first is a lost call from Benítez to Laudelina, supposedly to warn him that the baby was lost in the orange area and that he could be returning to his grandmother's house, is 419, I think the loss, 420, sorry, 1419. The one that is lost, 1420, 1421. The one that is concrete, but that is extensive.
06:34In fact, some of the investigators are already making noise that it is more extensive than the time it would take for them to cut the distance and speak face to face.
06:43Very well, give me the other one that we were, that's how we ended it, which is very interesting. At 2.40 p.m., pay attention to this, at 2.40 p.m. Pérez and Callava were still in Catalina's house. Remember this time.
06:58Because that's where the communication ends. That's where Benítez supposedly ends by telling Laudelina that the baby was lost, that he could be returning home, according to the manifestation of another of the boys. So that communication ends at 2.40 p.m. Until then, until then, Pérez and Callava are still in Grandma Catalina's house and this is an important fact.
07:22Well, according to the witnesses, the commissioner says, the minors were also 15 minutes from the place. The baby would have left that observation area where they refer to, they had gone the same way that Benítez had gone. Simultaneously, he speaks of the moment when they say goodbye. This is the moment when they say goodbye and Pérez and Callava are withdrawn.
07:43But it's not marked, but keep this schedule. This schedule is going to be important, 1452.
07:491452 will be the communication below, but it is important, now that we understand that Pérez and Callava are on the lookout and this route, this suspicious and mysterious contact between Callava and the policeman of the town, Maciel. Listen carefully.
08:10How are you, Mr. Commissioner? I forgot to say today, we have here, 4 or 5 kilometers from the town, an establishment, a small farm of 4 hectares, where we have a kind of house, a ranch, which is to keep our things when we go there.
08:32It would be convenient to put a guard there, permanent, for the doubt that they want to implant something false in that place, apart from what I already asked for here, for our home.
08:48At the moment, no one has arrived, we are on the lookout and we are available, as I said today, of the prosecutor or whoever, the truth is that to free ourselves and even be able to leave the house quietly, we are not going to accompany Catalina, as we were doing these days.
09:08We do not want to leave the house alone, we are waiting to see if they are going to quote us or not to declare, we would be interested in having them come and do the inspections of our properties, so that they are already released and we are not with this uncertainty of whether they are going to plant some false evidence or whatever.
09:29So please, I ask you and let me know. Thank you very much.
09:34Why, everyone wonders, would it be necessary to suspect that they could plant evidence against the ex-captain? Why?
09:44You have to be there, in the best of witnesses cases, in the worst of cases, the object and focus of an investigation, and be you who tells the commissioner, sending an audio, to see if they can come, please do the inspections, so we already have freedom.
10:00What a fool, someone who seems to me to be used to something else, not to submit to the times of justice and an investigation, but even to give a directive.
10:10Would you tell him in this circumstance, hey please, and apart he is already thinking that they can plant evidence against him, he is elaborating a defensive strategy.
10:19And he also says, I'm going to go, I say, let's see, there we listened to Carlos Pérez, but at the same time who called Maciel was María Victoria Cayllaba.
10:28You will understand when we continue listening to Carlos, but to Hector Rodríguez, to the commissioner, why these audios are so important and also the statements of Pérez and Cayllaba.
10:39Listen to what María Victoria said to Commissioner Maciel.
10:43Commissioner, how are you? We are already here in town, I'm going to Catalina, to be with her, she calls me all the time.
10:53Victoria, I just answered, I just answered, yes, we went to her, we went to her and all that was implemented.
11:01Don't worry, we are complying with all the data that can be given to this creature.
11:08That's why I don't answer you, call me, call me, because I don't have the signal and I have a thousand messages and I can't read everything, because we have to go into the investigation.
11:17But call me.
11:19Well, let's see, there we listened to Cayllaba, also talking.
11:25This immediately after she already communicates to the police, but what happens here?
11:29Here Cayllaba says she calls the police because after calling Catalina to her, she decides to call the police.
11:36Was it Catalina who called her? We don't know.
11:40Catalina's phone was used, but there had already been communication and who was organizing the whole meeting was Audelina.
11:48So I ask myself again, was it Catalina who called? Or was it Audelina who called?
11:54The truth is that Cayllaba had told everyone that she called the police from her house.
12:01And it turns out that the commissioner doesn't have the time, doesn't have the time.
12:06Notice how he declared it in front of the Federal Judge Poserpenso, he declared that he doesn't have the time.
12:12It is suspicious that a person, through a registered call from Mrs. Catalina to Mrs. María Victoria Cayllaba,
12:21has as a particularity that Cayllaba, as Carlos Pérez also says,
12:25after receiving that call and asking Catalina to verify in the truck if the boy was or was not in the truck,
12:32look under the cardan to see if they were.
12:35What seems strange to me is that after traveling 12 or 13 kilometers,
12:39a boy can be under the cardan.
12:42It would be what goes under the truck, like a cylinder that goes under, he reiterates, the truck.
12:47The problem is that all this dialogue had supposedly taken place from Pérez and Cayllaba's house.
12:53And here is what Héctor Rodríguez says,
12:57did they ever get to their house? Did they ever get to their house, Pérez and Cayllaba,
13:02if there is no camera that records them because there was a blackout?
13:04And why don't they give me the times of the trip from Catalina's house to Pérez and Cayllaba's house
13:10so that they could already be at that moment?
13:12From the moment the call from Benítez to Laudelina ends,
13:18where Benítez is supposedly telling her, we lost the boy,
13:22an extensive call for that situation,
13:25I still remind you, for some it is too long,
13:29the call could even have been found if they had wanted to personally in the time it lasts,
13:32short, if they report Pérez and Cayllaba,
13:36because even they themselves declared that they left Grandma Catalina's house
13:39knowing that the boy was locked up, but supposedly returning home.
13:44They decide to leave and receive at 14.52 a call,
13:50supposedly from Grandma Catalina, to ask her if the boy will not be above the truck,
13:54because in fact they looked for him and did not find him, they are not finding him.
13:58That distance of time, which would hardly be 12 minutes,
14:03the commissioner, Héctor Rodríguez, does not close the times, why?
14:07Because from Grandma Catalina's house to the center of the town of Nueve de Julio,
14:12where you have a long way to go until you leave for the route,
14:16and then you have another long way to go, you have 18 or 20 minutes,
14:21they do not give the times for that call to have received him at home,
14:25they have gone to the garage and have already parked the truck.
14:28As it is, Tito González is the defense lawyer of Pérez and Cayllaba,
14:32and evidently contradictions are being analyzed, Tito.
14:36How are they going to defend themselves from the point of view of what Rodríguez declared?
14:44Let me clarify, tomorrow we are going to go with the last statement,
14:48we are working on it, there is hermeticism, but we have the statement and we are going to work on it, Tito.
14:55Good afternoon, Pablo Ubi, the entire team and the audience.
14:59Good afternoon, the truth is that you have it a little difficult,
15:02I'm sorry to tell you, because the looks are undoubtedly on Pérez and Cayllaba,
15:08in addition to Laudelina, right?
15:10Well, it is something that has always been from the beginning,
15:14from the audiological expertise, the looks have always been on Pérez and Cayllaba,
15:19but I would like to emphasize the statement of Commissioner Rodríguez.
15:24The parameter that he is having to be able to calculate the distance,
15:28the time, the moment of the calls, is the beginning and the end of the call between Benítez and Laudelina.
15:34The beginning could be considered a valid parameter, but not the end,
15:39because at no time does any of the people say that,
15:42first they hang up the phone from the call of Benítez and Laudelina,
15:46and then they go to Pérez and Cayllaba.
15:48At no time does that happen, they leave during the call,
15:50so there they are already taking away a little of the work.
15:53But forgive me, Tito, it is not that Laudelina accompanies Pérez and Cayllaba,
15:59because she was going to return to the road, and that's where she sees the situation,
16:03she would also be accompanying José, the father.
16:06Of course, of course, but she doesn't hang up the phone.
16:08She never hangs up the phone.
16:10No, of course, of course, that's why it's a very extensive call,
16:14it even gave time to report on the absence of the parrot.
16:19And what time did Pérez and Cayllaba leave Catalina's house?
16:24Exactly according to what you have determined.
16:27And exactly at the exact moment, exact minute, it is impossible to determine for sure.
16:32That's why it's interesting and we care a lot about the results of the tests
16:37in terms of the geolocation of the vehicles.
16:40In itself, it is already striking that they re-raise this hypothesis of the accident.
16:46If there was an accident, the main interested parties would be Pérez and Cayllaba.
16:53Excuse me, excuse me for interrupting you,
16:55it seems to me that the accident is not gaining importance,
16:58the braking of the vehicle is gaining importance.
17:01The concept of accident is not yet identified,
17:05of course, accident tests are being waited for to determine whether it existed or not,
17:10not for now, but what they report, at least so far, is a braking.
17:14The suspicion is not if they ran over it and for that reason they took it,
17:20the suspicion, Alice and Yana, is if they took it for some other reason.
17:26Well, in itself, if they were doing the accident test on the vehicle,
17:31it is to determine if it has damage to the vehicle.
17:33If not, it would be done on the field,
17:36which is practically impossible because of the time that passed,
17:39it is being done on the vehicle.
17:40Yes, what happens is that you have the tests that the dogs give,
17:44which say of the two vehicles of your clients,
17:46and you have a person who supposedly regrets it later,
17:49who points to a braking at 200, 300 meters from the house,
17:53and supposedly Pérez loading and then delivering the loot, you heard everything, right?
18:00Of course, of course, but we cannot ignore this person,
18:03who was directed to say this,
18:06who was taken from July 9th to Corrientes,
18:08which was opened by a prosecutor after midnight,
18:11who had the possibility of declaring to a prosecutor who is not competent
18:14for the reason of the territory.
18:16Any lawyer would know, but hey,
18:18in itself, it is something that has been questioned a lot,
18:22that in the direction of complex crimes anyone can go and make a complaint.
18:26No, it is not like that.
18:28I testify in the criminal part, here in Corrientes Capital,
18:30and the times I have gone, to make a complaint,
18:33due to the urgency and due to the mediation,
18:34a complex crime to two blocks from where the crime occurs,
18:37they send me to another place.
18:39To any lawyer, not just me,
18:41not just any litigation lawyer.
18:43Ernesto, I make you a consultation of common sense,
18:47almost predicting what you can answer me.
18:50Let's see, if in fact they do not expect, Pérez and Caillabas,
18:53that the communication between Benítez and Laudelina ends,
18:57where Benítez is supposedly informing him of the looting of the Nene,
19:01they do not expect it to end,
19:02there, in fact, they would be having a few minutes in their favor,
19:06to have left the place and arrive on time to the house,
19:10so that it is the house where they receive the other call,
19:13the one they ask, hey, can you look in the truck,
19:15to see if the Nene, playing, did not go up there?
19:17That gives them a few minutes out there in favor.
19:19Now, from the common sense,
19:21already informed that a Nene was looted,
19:25and not having finished a call that gives them the tranquility
19:29before leaving, that the Nene was found,
19:31that municipal official,
19:33are they going to leave a place with a looted Nene?
19:38It is that again, it is not that he was looted,
19:41until that moment the Nene had not yet returned.
19:43If they knew that he was looted,
19:47that he was directly lost,
19:49not that he was returning and had not yet been ambushed,
19:51they would have stayed.
19:53Again, having as a parameter only a call
19:56between Benítez and Laudelina, we have to have the consideration
19:58where Laudelina had the phone.
20:01It is not the same that Laudelina has the phone in her hand,
20:03that she has it over her ear,
20:05and that she realizes the card that is around,
20:07which is in a call.
20:09Because I could have it in my pocket,
20:11I could have it by hand,
20:13we do not know the content of the call,
20:15so we can say, indeed,
20:17they were talking all the time,
20:19or I only had it in connection,
20:21I would have to handle the correct term,
20:23but the call in line, let's say.
20:25Dr. González, is it true what you say,
20:26that in the case of the accident,
20:28it would be the best,
20:30taking into account the penalty that it would be,
20:32for your clients?
20:34And I agree with you that the tour of Laudelina
20:36is the most complicated I have seen,
20:38the most serious, and they hardly treat it.
20:40Now, I imagine you asked your client,
20:42was there an accident?
20:44And they will have given you an answer.
20:46That's why.
20:48But I want to ask you this,
20:50you asked him,
20:52was there an accident?
20:54And they will have given you an answer.
20:56Of course, it is something that I asked him,
20:58but since they did not see,
21:00they did not hear,
21:02they have no knowledge,
21:04it is an opinion that could be based
21:06only on mere conjectures.
21:08They told me, yes, it could have been
21:10that the people responsible
21:12would have been the ones who were
21:14immediately with the girl.
21:16That is, without the intention of attributing
21:18any kind of responsibility to the other defendants,
21:20and in principle the first three who were in place.
21:22Obviously, without intention,
21:24I have my perspective on this,
21:26but for them,
21:28without having evidence,
21:30it is one of the people who were with Loa.
21:32They could have been.
21:34Well, yes, they could.
21:36They are not, they could,
21:38obviously in potential.
21:40Tito, did you pay attention to the information
21:42that circulated yesterday
21:44regarding a new expertise
21:46in the house of Pérez and Quintana Roo,
21:48but with excavations?
21:51For us, the experiments that have to be done,
21:53that is, any expertise that arises
21:54and is considered necessary
21:56by the judge and all prosecutors
21:58should be done.
22:00Any kind of expertise
22:02totally the opposite would not be attractive.
22:04In fact, any expertise that is done
22:06is welcome.
22:08I do not care about the result independently
22:10to be able to demonstrate
22:12the innocence of my clients.
22:14Very good, very good.