Stefan Molyneux
  • 3 months ago
https://www.amazon.ca/Sisters-Secrets-Leading-Turpin-Arrest/dp/1946265209

In this episode, I examine the tragic story of the Turpin family, focusing on the abuse suffered by 13 children at the hands of their parents. Joined by insights from Elizabeth Flores, Louise Turpin's sister, we explore themes of childhood trauma, neglect, and the cyclical nature of violence. Elizabeth’s account highlights the societal failures that allow such horrors to persist, prompting reflection on our collective responsibility to protect vulnerable children. The discussion confronts uncomfortable truths, laying the groundwork for a deeper exploration of the unimaginable events within the Turpin household in the next episode.

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Transcript
00:00Hey everybody this is Stan Molyneux from FreeDomain. So I'm not often drawn
00:04into true crime stories but this is one that has haunted me just as I'm sure it
00:11has haunted millions of people around the world. The story of the Turpin family
00:17where the mother and the father abused, starved and chained their 13 children to
00:23their beds and there is so much to talk about with regards to philosophy with
00:31regards to all of this and the information that is out there is kind of
00:37scattered and I've really worked hard to pull it all together and to give you the
00:40philosophical realities behind this situation. So I'm gonna start not with
00:48the crimes themselves or at least not the Louise Turpin's crimes and her
00:53husband's crimes. We're going to get to that later. What I want to do is there's
00:57a window into the world of the Turpins that has been written by Elizabeth
01:04Flores who is the younger sister to Louise Turpin and I'm gonna go through
01:13her life because of course I've talked at length at great length about how we
01:19really need to fix childhood before we can fix anything else. We need to fix
01:23parenting, we need to fix childhood and then and only then can we really work to
01:27fix the world. So this woman Louise Turpin and her husband of course did
01:34David did absolutely terrible things to their children. Kept them chained and
01:40tortured and brutalized for decades really. Their oldest quote child was in
01:45her late to his or her late 20s when they were finally rescued which will get
01:50to that is also quite a powerful and amazing story. But I want to start with
01:54the history of Louise Turpin as told by her sister Elizabeth. Now of course the
02:01usual caveats apply. I don't know how much of this stuff that's being talked
02:04about has been adjudicated in the court of law. These are all some of these are
02:08allegations some of these may or may not be true. I'm simply reporting on what
02:13Elizabeth Flores has said and of course I can make no outside or objective
02:20claim as to whether these things are true or false. I'm simply reporting on
02:24what she said. I just want to put that out front. So Elizabeth Flores wrote a
02:31book called Sisters of Secrets. The story of sisters leading up to the Turpin case
02:34arrest and it's well worth reading. It's it's a grim read of course right. It's a
02:41grim read but it is really important to know just how bad some people's
02:45childhoods are and how much needs to change in this world for children and
02:50the world and safety and security to be protected and achieved. So Elizabeth's
02:59book starts with this. Come on in here and give me a tight hug said my papa
03:06that's grandfather. She says I would come to know his silky persuasive voice as a
03:11sign of what was to come later in my years but my sister knew what this dark
03:16head man standing tall with authority beside us wanted. She got between my
03:23four-year-old body frame and his six-foot physique a man who we were told
03:29to always trust. Turning to me she looked at me with tears in her eyes and said
03:36I'll go. And the grandfather's rampant horrendous appalling brutal sexual abuse
03:45that Louise Turpin took this bullet for her sister Elizabeth. And this is moving
03:54of course beyond words that an older sister were to decide to surrender to
03:59the molestations of the grandfather to protect her four-year-old sister.
04:05Is very powerful very deep and to go from protection to destruction protection
04:14of sister to destruction of your own children is really really something and
04:18we will get into some of the history of this believe it or not it gets a whole
04:24lot darker than this so you know this is trigger warning right that's nasty stuff
04:27in here but I do think that we need to unflinchingly and unblinkingly look at
04:33these sort of hearts of darkness so that we know what we're dealing with in the
04:38world and this is not about of course just this family or these families this
04:44is about society as a whole because as I'm gonna make the case as we go along
04:49this occurs this this horrendous behavior this this torture and abuse of
04:56children occurs within a society within a society so of course this girl
05:04Elizabeth reports saying no one likes me she sat on the bed crying talking to her
05:09older sister what are they doing to you she asked they're teasing me and they're
05:12calling me names they won't even let me they won't even play with me Louise so
05:17of course she wanted to have friends as a little kid and nobody really wanted to
05:22spend time with her because again she was in a situation of rampant domestic
05:27sexual abuse and chaos and other evils which stagger the imagination even
05:32beyond just the sexual abuse which we'll get to and it isolates you right if
05:37you've ever been tortured or significantly a seriously abused as a
05:42child it silences you and it tortures you and it puts a fiery mode of
05:47isolation around you and that is very tough so she says by the third grade
05:55this is Elizabeth by the third grade I grew more insecure and withdrawn she
05:59writes other quick kids quit talking to me and now my big sister had left me all
06:04alone she'd run away to Texas to get married I didn't know what to do so by
06:08the third grade her sister in her teens had gone to get married to this guy
06:12David with whom she ended up torturing and abusing these children for close to
06:1630 years their children and Elizabeth says the rough times continued in the
06:21fourth and fifth grade I had no friends at all time at school was difficult and
06:24uncomfortable my grades dropped it was a hard time hearing and remembering
06:28anything the teacher taught it was crazy so she says it got so bad I refused to
06:34do my homework so that my name would be written on the blackboard and I would
06:36not be allowed to go to recess I didn't want to be alone at recess I felt ugly
06:40insecure scared embarrassed and sad and the fact that children get punished for
06:46the brutality of their environment is one of the most sickening and repulsive
06:51and evil things that society does the other kids tease you the teachers scorn
06:58you and so you are rejected and we can understand the kids it's not their job
07:03to fix all of this but teachers see abuse victims all the time and what did
07:09they do they punish them so she said home life wasn't much better I found
07:13negatively everywhere I turned my parents got divorced mommy was in and
07:18out of abusive relationships and other awful things my paw paw was molesting me
07:23I was physically mentally and emotionally abused by two other people as
07:27well and she became very religious and of course we can understand this she
07:33quotes the book of Deuteronomy quote the Lord is the one who goes ahead of
07:39you he will be with you he will not fail you or forsake you to not fear or be
07:45dismayed so she recognizes of course that the kids could sense that her
07:53unworthiness her low self-esteem and so on and she was of course being sexually
08:00physically mentally and emotionally abused she got a friend or two out of
08:06this but the isolation and the abuse continued in a society that claims to
08:14massively want to protect children and to care for children everything for the
08:18children and so on it was very sad so her sister basically runs along runs off
08:25Louisa older sister runs off and goes to get married about the age of 15
08:32Louise dated a guy from church and they got serious and what happened was she
08:39left from school and what happened was this school explained that a tall man
08:45wearing a hat who had facial hair which we discovered was fake had come in and
08:50to be her dad he had checked her out of school so this is her boyfriend my
08:55parents were frantic and went to the police I think it was three days later
08:58they found her with her boyfriend David in Fort Worth Texas which was about a 17
09:05hour drive from where we lived David was six and a half years older than her so
09:10that legally constituted kidnapping he was almost 23 and she was just 16 but
09:15because we all went to church together for years and his parents were friends
09:17of my parents they decided not to press charges so then her older sister Louise
09:24ended up getting married and she says when she got married this is Elizabeth
09:31she says when my sister got married and I realized she was moving so far away I
09:35was scared sad and angry I felt betrayed I was scared because she was always
09:39there for me she had protected me a lot when mommy and daddy would fight she
09:43would hide my face in her chest and hold my ears she would take my place
09:47when my pawpaw who sexually abused me would come after me oh it's absolutely
09:53tragic and she says I had mommy and daddy but they fought all the time my
09:58parents separated and divorced just months after my sister left home and I
10:01still believe her leaving contributed to that situation they argued over my dad's
10:06signing for her to get married a lot and the divorce was of course ugly and
10:14unpleasant so she also feels guilt about her actions that possibly led up to her
10:22parents divorce so she writes a screaming and yelling were the worst I'd
10:26ever heard shrinking down in the other room with little Teresa hugging me tight
10:30I heard who were you talking to daddy said to mommy she lied and didn't didn't
10:34tell him the truth I think she told him she was just talking to pawpaw but he
10:37already knew that wasn't true just moments before I had gone into their
10:41bedroom where daddy was already asleep for the night because he had to get up
10:44early for work the next day I overheard mommy having this phone
10:47conversation that didn't seem right feeling something off I had gone into
10:51the bedroom and said daddy I think mommy's on the phone with somebody I
10:54think something is funny he picked up the receiver and listened to the
10:58conversation I knew mommy was seeing someone else and I couldn't take it
11:01anymore I was hurt that daddy worked so hard all the time and mommy didn't have
11:05to work he was good to us and I couldn't understand how mommy could treat him so
11:08bad and be so mean by being with someone else so it was wretched and the father
11:15left after a fight and she said the only two adults left in the house were mommy
11:20and pawpaw my pawpaw who touched me and made me feel so dirty and bad all the
11:25time so absolutely wretched and of course she feels guilt about all of this
11:30as well she said standing by a living room lamp and looking out through the
11:34window the next day reality hit me I had such a sadness because I knew daddy was
11:38gone all I could do was cry as the days father daddy would come by after work
11:43but mommy wouldn't let him in the house we had to go out to the driveway and
11:47visit with him he would ask if he could take us for ice cream or do something
11:51special most times she said no but the times when she let us go with him we
11:56were so happy I could I could hardly stand being away from him so she feels
12:00that it was her fault that she told her father to pick up the phone and listen
12:04in to his mother and he never revealed that he took that secret to his grave
12:09but of course that would give a lot of guilt for the chaos and tragedy that
12:13went on after that and the time is a little all over the place in the book
12:18and one of the things she says later on in the book she says the this is
12:25Elizabeth the earliest memory I have is at about four years old I remember being
12:29told by Papa you better keep this quiet if you tell your daddy you know how mad
12:33he'll get he might hurt me you know if he does that he will go to jail and that
12:38was appalling right this is the molestation it got much worse like a
12:45nightmare she says one day mommy said she would take us over to Papa's because
12:49he would give her some money and she writes when we got there
12:54Papa greeted us with his same sweet voice he always had and said come on
12:59girls let me show you my basement I'm building he let little Teresa and me
13:03down the stairs there was one big room that had dirt for walls and there was no
13:07light it was scary down there and kind of felt like a grave or something there
13:10was one chair he sat down on the chair and put me up on his lap poor little
13:15Teresa was forced to watch she was about four years old because by this
13:19time I was about nine I can remember her crying in the dark room while Papa did
13:24stuff to me because she had no choice but to watch she knew what was coming
13:29next once he was done with me he would remind me again of all the reasons not
13:34to tell and then he would pick up a little Teresa and do the same thing the
13:37first time it happened she says I let out a scream and tried to run from him
13:41but he grabbed my arm from behind he put his hand over my mouth to shush me
13:46I knew mommy was letting it happen because we were told that we had to go
13:51so when the mother takes her little girls to her to the grandfathers she
13:58says now y'all girls go play with Papa a while and sometimes she says they had to
14:05go over there more than once a week every single time the same thing
14:07happened she got her money from Papa and then took her girls back home so
14:13she according to her daughter delivered her little girls to the pedophile for
14:21money for money it's absolutely beyond staggering absolutely appalling
14:32so the mama which is I guess Papa's wife mama at one point I think Elizabeth was
14:38about ten years about ten years old and the mama says has your Papa ever heard
14:41you I was quiet for a minute and then she continued if he has I'll kill him
14:45when mama said that I said no I took it literal that mama would kill him I
14:51didn't want mama to go to jail for doing that Papa had already warned me that
14:56daddy would get in trouble if I told are you sure says mama you tell me right I
15:00nodded but couldn't look at her because I was ashamed for telling mama that lie
15:04your Papa is not a good man I know he has been bad to some other girls she
15:09said she told me that one day she had walked in on Papa raping Louise as a
15:13child of course Louise is there Louise Turpin is the woman who ended up
15:17torturing her own children for decades so the grandfather raped Louise and
15:21that's why she ended up divorcing him shortly after that and of course as we
15:27know from I know from my work on peaceful parenting pedophiles have
15:33hundreds of victims and the Papa had molested other cousins in the family and
15:37we won't get into one of those details and it kind of goes all over the place
15:43and there is a girl Patricia who's a cousin Patricia told me she had told her
15:52parents and my mama but the only advice they had given was to stay away from him
15:55Trisha later confided later confided me that her sister's husband had French
15:59kissed her in the basement of his sister's of her sister's home one summer
16:02when she was just nine years old and it's it's just terrible she sees the
16:07Papa living in his 90s he lost she lost her mom at 66 and three months later
16:13lost her dad to a long illness at 67 and that is
16:19appalling and she writes this is very powerful to me there may be people in
16:24your life you need to forgive I want you to know that God will help take the
16:27bitterness and hatred out of your heart just know that God can and will perhaps
16:32you need to pray for someone who's hurt you stop by praying for forgiveness and
16:35asking him to remove the hatred and lack of forgiveness in your heart pray that
16:40he would help you forgive and see the person through the eyes of Jesus pray
16:44for that person and salvation God will start the process it will make you feel
16:49a lot better to holding on to unforgiveness hurts you more than the
16:52person you have chosen not to forgive and I'm again I'm going to get it to
16:57sort of my analysis of this I really want to sort of get the facts down as a
17:01whole so this is Elizabeth again she says when I was 10 years old mommy dated
17:07a guy named Bill and he ends up crashing in a terrible car crash and she only read
17:19in the paper about the obituary with the name she says we were told he had a
17:23brain tumor and it busted on the way home from work the car went over the
17:26mountain right across from the kitchen window of the new house he was found by
17:29the neighbor at the bottom of the mountain he broke his neck and died so
17:33then it gets hard to say whether it gets worse so we've got the molestation we've
17:40got the mother delivering the children to the pedophile for money and then
17:44after Bill died mommy couldn't handle the sadness and she was drowning
17:47financially she slept with guys for money she put herself in dangerous
17:52places she left us at home by ourselves a lot of times at all night Louise was
17:59married and so far away I was 11 and my little sister was 6 and Billy was just a
18:04little bitty baby Billy is Bill so Bill was the guy she was dating and then he
18:10dies from the brain tumor of the car crash and then her mother had a daughter
18:17sorry had a son named after Bill so we assume this is Bill's kid so she
18:23Elizabeth says I was terrified of the dark I would lock us all up in the
18:28bathroom and we would stay up all night sometimes she would take us with her and
18:32she says I was also tired in school my grades were suffering I didn't know if
18:37mommy would come home safe I cried myself to sleep many times she was once
18:41a good Christian woman she knew right from wrong I always longed for the day
18:44she would turn back to God she would get with some mean and scary men she
18:49would say but it makes money and she goes into some details about how
18:54terrifying some of her mother's Johns were and it's just awful and she said
19:00even though I was just a little girl I always worried about mommy like I was
19:03her mother I remember her I remember always trying to go with her because I
19:06felt I needed to protect her when I take you with me he's nicer she explained
19:10they behave and I sure could use you please don't go over to your father's
19:13this weekend she begged the beatings are worse when you don't go oh it's
19:18terrible she said but to me after seeing her all those years prostituting
19:22prostituting and taking money to let pawpaw do what he did to us I knew it
19:27was just prostitution she made it look like they were just boyfriends and
19:30that's again this is this is life that it's not as rare as you can as we would
19:38all want we would want this to never happen but it's not as rare as we would
19:43think and she ends up dating this fellow and
19:51it is really hysterical it is really hysterical so this is a guy who was a
19:58blackfella he worked as a bus driver and janitor at her school and after that day
20:03they dated but it wasn't normal dating he cleaned the schools at night mommy
20:06would put us in the car and we would go over to the school we would keep him
20:09company while he cleaned he told us that his wife had died and he was a
20:13widower he seemed okay at first but there was something about him that made
20:16me feel uncomfortable so a few months into the relationship her mother became
20:21obsessed with this man one time after school mommy saw him talking with
20:27another schoolteacher she screamed at him are you seeing her he yelled back
20:30woman you're crazy she wanted to know where he was at all times she would
20:34check and make sure he wasn't lying she started accusing him of cheating when
20:37he would watch television she would accuse him of looking at women on TV he
20:41lost it he started screaming at her a lot which led to shoving the shoving led
20:45to hitting eventually mommy was taking beatings constantly she was a human
20:48punching bag getting beat on about three to four times a day she asked her mother
20:53or mommy why do you stay with him because baby I love him but when they
20:57would fight she would say I hate his guts that confused me even more just
21:01appalling one day she says this is Elizabeth writing one day she got it
21:06into her mind that he had another woman over at his house you've got a woman
21:10over there don't you you're hiding it I'm coming over and then this beating
21:15was so bad that she ended up in the emergency room and in hospital for about
21:21a week she refused to press charges one night he ran her car off the road in the
21:28middle of nowhere dragged her out of the car and beat her right in front of us
21:30again and then the boyfriend this boyfriend she says Elizabeth writes one
21:36night I over and over heard an argument mommy was screaming and fighting back at
21:40him I went to the kitchen to check on her I saw he was raping her mommy kept
21:45telling me to go to the other room despite all the abuse the obsession for
21:49him was controlling her she went back for more and this is what is going on
21:54she says while all this was going on she had also gotten herself pregnant by him
21:57twice so she pretended that she had a tumor that was making her gain weight
22:05and it's truly astonishing the way that this plays on of course this level of
22:14chaos and fertility she says when she got pregnant but the last one she didn't
22:20want anyone to know three months into the pregnancy she started showing and
22:23decided to hide so she gets her kids into a car and they live in a car until
22:30the baby is born and she says we ate bread with ketchup on it I've been there
22:35she would buy bread in a store then she made me and my sister Teresa go to
22:38McDonald's and grab ketchup packets it was so embarrassing and they get no sleep
22:44they've got mommy and four kids in a little Chevy Chevette trying to sleep we
22:50didn't sleep much when she had the baby we went back home she tried to hide the
22:54baby too but that didn't last long the only part that wasn't terrible was
22:57because mommy hid from pop or two I didn't have to go and see him not one
23:00time so her mother ends up with six kids five living at home because Luis was in
23:05Texas married and then she does get away from her violent gender boyfriend she
23:13goes to shelterers and it goes from there and she ends up in a partying
23:19lifestyle she tries to she says she went to church and lived well for a
23:25while then she slipped back into her old way she started to hang around with a
23:28few men and things went back to what I had become accustomed to and then she
23:33finally got a job this Elizabeth finally got it was able to get a job and she
23:38says at least the guys my mother was partied with weren't abusive they were
23:41drinkers and crazy but not abusive at least from what I saw absolutely terrible
23:46and she has a worship for her father which I can't judge because the father
23:53married the mother and had kids with her so I can judge this of course to some
23:57degree is negative but she has a complete worship on she calls herself a
24:00daddy's girl a complete worship for her father and that is something that is
24:08it's hard for me to picture hard for me to imagine hard for me to understand so
24:14she ends up going to a college and then my sister Louise and her husband David
24:21came to visit with their four children so at this time they'd had four children
24:24while on an outing one day I said can I stay with you for the summer and they
24:28said sure and the prop one of the problems was that Louise and David so
24:34this is her older sister and her husband but the people who are pretty much in
24:39jail for life for torturing and abusing their children stopped in Louisiana at a
24:42casino to gamble I was not aware that they took part in gambling we were all
24:45raised up in a strict Christian home and taught that gambling was a sin I was in
24:49shock and so well what can I tell you so the David the husband says he would tease
24:59me about my high school boyfriend Brandon saying things like Brandon wanted
25:02to go swimming with you just to get you in a two-piece to see your body and get
25:06excited and that is obviously kind of disturbing and things got stranger she
25:12says one day they were trying to come in on me while I was in the shower and
25:16she her sister picked the lock with a coat hanger she and David made me let
25:22them watch me shower sorry she and David made me let them watch me shower and
25:27even got out and got dressed in front of them got dressed and while they laughed
25:30and made fun of me and talked about how beautiful I was so that's pretty
25:34unpleasant things that she noticed in the home she was very strict her sister
25:39was very strict with the kids Louise would set the table for a meal and call
25:42them down one at a time they were great for permission to sit down after they
25:46sat down they did not touch a bite to eat until Louise told them it was okay
25:50and they really control her as well too she said I was given rules just like the
25:55kids I wasn't allowed to have friends give anyone her address or phone number
25:58I could only go to work and back home would be transported by Louise I was
26:02told if I broke the rules I would be kicked out Louise found out I had met a
26:07friend at work to be going out with him on lunch breaks so then she got kicked
26:11out of the house and she was at work she so Louise her older sister calls
26:18Elizabeth at work and says you can't come home and her boss offered to take
26:22her home with him and his wife but she said no because of all the abuse she
26:25trusted no one she goes to Walmart and just sleeps on a bench there and she
26:31slept on that bench for three days and she would walk to work at the same
26:35outfit she had on every day the manager would let her sleep in the office until
26:38it was time to clock in and this is the kind of life that people are living it's
26:45you know you can stay with your sister she finds out you're having lunch with a
26:49guy she kicks you out and you have to sleep on a bench in a Walmart parking
26:54lot for days and she goes into stories of course she says for a couple of
27:00months after she gets married and has kids for a couple of months after one of
27:05her kids had issues she battles fear depression and of course of course and
27:09the depression isn't of course just what happened when she was a child the
27:14depression is how much it goes into society how much society overlooks and
27:21ignores us and punishes you right if your sister kicks you out and you you
27:25know obviously a young person and you end up sleeping on a park bench and then
27:30society of course says you're the problem in school you're the problem
27:34you're not doing your homework you're not paying attention so I'm at you're
27:37hungry try studying when you've had very little sleep and you're starving it's
27:41kind of tough so she gets married she says the first few years marriage were
27:49awesome and then arguments began eight months into the marriage they lost a
27:54child which was tough she says she's been taking some weight loss pills that
27:58Jonathan didn't want me to take while I didn't know I was pregnant when we would
28:02argue he would tell me that's why we lost her I would tell him that I lost
28:05her because of all the arguing it that he would stress me out and that's rough
28:09right when you lose a child and you're blaming each other that's terrible so
28:14the husband ends up leaving I think there's a woman involved and once he got
28:23to Texas I called a cell phone to tell them and his reply was what do you want
28:26me to do about it so Elizabeth says you know we had no food no electricity no
28:30car and I was being evicted from a home within a couple of weeks of him leaving
28:33he took all the money and didn't pay any of the bills we had six children I was
28:37eight and a half months pregnant with our seventh so that is the life she was
28:44hospitalized for stress depression and panic attacks and with regards to her
28:49sister Louise she said we would talk many times and often in a run for
28:54several days and then she would suddenly quit calling she would stop returning my
28:58phone call sometimes for six months or even a year at a time and that is
29:03something that happens tragically quite a lot but this sort of come and go
29:09family relations right so he ends up getting back together with her husband
29:15and they'd be married now by the time she writes the the book they'd be
29:20married for over 20 years and she says that God restored our marriage and with
29:27regards to her husband his parents divorced when he was four he grew up
29:31seeing fighting between his parents and when his stepdad came into the picture
29:34there were lots and lots of fighting and abuse and it was rough for everyone and
29:40with all of this comes like really really difficult difficult difficult
29:44health issues you know the amount of stress and wear and tear on the body
29:48from all of this abuse is really tough a lot of a lot of issues a lot of health
29:51issues and I won't go into those in detail again it's worth reading the book
29:54it's called Sisters of Secrets by Elizabeth Flores F-L-O-R-E-S and that's
30:01rough as well so she Elizabeth hears about Louise
30:07talking about how many fights she had with her husband over gambling and again
30:14that's trying to get any kind of dopamine because of the fundamental
30:18misery of this kind of brutality that occurs as as children and then they have
30:25of course financial issues because of gambling and other things and so then
30:29Louise Louise and her husband David file for bankruptcy and Louise says they take
30:39your car and house but not the stuff you buy on your credit card you see we file
30:42where we get to keep her house and car as long as the payments are caught up
30:45everything gets written off and we don't have to pay for it and Elizabeth
30:49writes after I began to understand what she was telling me I responded that kind
30:53of sounds like stealing to me well it's not because my kids need it and I do
30:57whatever I need to do for my kids she said we buy everything we want on
31:00purpose because that's a way of getting things we are filing bankruptcy anyway
31:03so we might as well get as much possible before we file but that doesn't that
31:07just doesn't seem honest to me right and of course this idea that you don't have
31:12to have morality with other kinds of things like you know well they can just
31:15write it off there's a famous Seinfeld thing they just write it off he's like
31:17you don't even know what that means and so Elizabeth at one point has cancer
31:23and again but the stress related or childhood related there seems to be some
31:27evidence but of course nobody can draw direct causality and it was really tough
31:33and so she says with regards to her sister along with the gambling I could
31:36see from the outside looking in the drinking and sexual addictions were
31:40taking root and that is very very rough as well and then there is a kind of open
31:49marriage polyamory thing that goes on with her sister and her husband and her
31:58sister calls her and says from a bar says I'm getting so drunk I'm having so
32:01much fun and then she called back guess what she said we have met a man and he
32:06wants to have sex with me does David know this yes David's right here beside
32:10me he wants me to and so they're doing that and that's really rough I won't get
32:18into the details because you know there's only a certain amount of
32:20ugliness that we can stomach in one particular show but it is just monstrous
32:26and then one weekend her sister wants to say ask her have you ever heard of the
32:32Ouija board and she's like no no no they can bring out evil and she goes
32:36like that and she says no I think you're playing I think playing with that could
32:41be demonic and I don't want you asking anything about me anyway you shouldn't
32:44be playing with that I mean that might not be safe around your kids and the
32:50ridicule began she says you just love you Jesus says her sister I think it's
32:54cool I've been doing some research too I have some books on witchcraft and card
32:57reading I've even looked into the satanic religion and these rituals what
33:01she said I was just curious lighten up and I think that there is dark stuff
33:05around Ouija boards I'm not saying it's metaphysical but it does open up a
33:09portal to a very negative part of the personality and then they start having
33:15snake statues in attack mode by the door and things just get you know darker and
33:21darker and darker and then she this is Elizabeth says between the years of 2001
33:27and 2006 I lost my children a couple of times to child protective services and
33:31there's you know really powerful and fascinating stories about all of that
33:35and then her mother she has a long session on losing her mother and
33:43since my relationship with my mom has been hard for others to understand and
33:47her mother would insult her in public but then praise her in private but she
33:53says when she's regarding her mother when she was so desperate for money it's
33:57hard to say the truth of how she was prostituting her own kids out to my
34:00papa her dad she didn't know that I noticed what she was doing because I
34:05was so young and then and there were these those times that she would lock us
34:09in the car in her car by herself in the middle of nowhere in the dark she would
34:14go and do whatever she needed to do and then come back now of course given that
34:18her father was molesting his grandkids it seems to me almost certain that he
34:23would have molested his own daughter as well and of course her mother who
34:28prostituted herself and prostituted her children to a pedophile when her
34:33daughter Elizabeth would wear shorts and so on she would sort of scream you're
34:38acting like a slut you're stupid and I didn't raise you to be like that which
34:41is of course quite confusing and Elizabeth says it was a very desperate
34:47I'm sorry it was a very destructive relationship but I love my mom so much
34:50and I can't explain it and that's wild right and and there's a lot of this kind
34:55of stuff in these kinds of abusive relationships that infection of supposed
34:59love is one of the ways in which this abuse tends to replicate and she says I
35:04would go home to visit my mother on weekends and she would start fighting
35:08with me out of nowhere I remember one time going home and a friend going with
35:12me to visit and mommy got so mad about something that she put her fist through
35:15the window so also quite terrifying and then there would be times when they
35:21would talk to she would talk to her mother on the phone every day sometimes
35:25even twice a day they would talk for hours and then one of the problems is
35:29that she was Elizabeth was hurt to find out that her mother was telling
35:32everything that Elizabeth would tell her to others in the family and she would
35:37lie about me and exaggerate everything or make everything look bad even if it
35:40was good and that's you know confide in me and then betrayal is just terrible so
35:49there's a long series here about the death oh and sorry this is a note that I
35:54had she says no matter what mommy did to me I loved her so much I always felt
35:59that her actions were due to all of the abuse she experienced as a child and
36:03she never got help to cope with it I know that paw paw molested her over and
36:08over so okay sorry about that I thought it was for certain and there it is
36:13confirmed and then she says this is very important she writes mommy feared hell I
36:19have peace that mommy gave her heart to the Lord if this chapter speaks to you
36:24just remember you have only one mother try to make things right and do what's
36:28right pray for them instead of hating them for what they put you through the
36:32Bible says to honor your mother and father it doesn't say to only honor them
36:35if they do you right one thing I can say is I honored my mother and father until
36:40death that's powerful she also says to her husband that Louise her sister was
36:46full of the devil and that doesn't bode well of course for the future of the
36:51relationship and so on right and her father has a tough time with
36:58dementia which is of course a very brutal thing for people to go through
37:01and she writes when I got married daddy cried he loves Jonathan though he told
37:06me one time that Jonathan was the only son-in-law that he liked he said that
37:09something was weird about David because Louise didn't talk or see the family
37:12anymore and he said any 23 year old that would run off with a 16 year old
37:17isn't any good anyway which is of course quite true and then Elizabeth
37:23writes that when her father's dementia started to get worse and she went to
37:28take care of him for quite some time Louise began to accuse me of stealing
37:32his money and this oh gosh the the I talked about this and show some months
37:37ago the appalling stuff that happens when there is inheritance it's just just
37:44terrible and so she took care of her father he got to where he wore diapers
37:50and had to be fed couldn't do anything for himself and Elizabeth writes you
37:54know I never got any sleep it was so rewarding though to be able to be the
37:57one taking care of him and knowing he was well taken care of and then
38:00eventually he just needed hospice as a whole and when her father was on his
38:06deathbed he asked several times to talk to Louise and she wouldn't answer and
38:10her father would cry saying I guess she doesn't want to talk to me and she
38:14didn't reply even to Elizabeth's requests to talk and they'd had
38:22conflicts about inheritance and stuff like that and so she says what I
38:26believe now is she knew daddy wanted to talk to the kids on Skype and she didn't
38:29want to have to tell him now so her father passed away just three months
38:35after her mother died and sister refused Louise refused to come to the
38:41funeral and that was terrible and she says when Elizabeth says when Louise
38:48didn't come to his funeral we got into a huge fight over this she even sent her
38:51in-laws to the hotel where we were staying for daddy's funeral to scream in
38:54my face about it I told them exactly how I felt I told them she wouldn't get
38:58anything after the way she treated my parents and wouldn't talk to them so
39:01that's interesting so her sister she's incredibly angry at her sister and draws
39:07these lines with her sister or calls her sister full of evil and so on right which
39:12is just a wild thing which again I'll talk about later but I just wanted to
39:15point it out here that Elizabeth calls her sister evil draws lines with her
39:21sister won't accommodate any of her sister's abuse I told them she wouldn't
39:26get anything after the way she treated my parents and wouldn't talk to them and
39:30so she really really cuts off her sister calls her evil gets incredibly angry at
39:34her sister even though her sister did more to protect her than her parents did
39:39as a child so if there's this principle then she should not be angry at her
39:45sister she should be angry at her parents but she takes care of her parents
39:48she loves her parents but she's incredibly angry at her sister who
39:51sacrificed her own childhood in part to protect Elizabeth from some of the worst
39:55abuses so I find that wild that you can take all of the anger at your parents
40:00and take it out on your sister and that is something else that is really really
40:07something else her father was heavily involved in politics and even his car
40:15said Democrat so this is you know massive pedophile pedophile family not
40:21the father it seems but and he said he's a Democrat so it is really
40:27something and I won't get into a lot of the later part of the book again it's
40:32well worth the read to get a view into the kind of life that a lot of people
40:37have and I like what she says later in the book she says parents need to
40:42discipline their children but they must discipline not abuse there is a big
40:44difference and this is from Ephesians 6 for fathers do not exasperate your
40:49children instead bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord
40:51and call 321 says fathers do not embitter your children or they will
40:58become discouraged Jesus knows you better than you could ever know yourself
41:03he will help from Hebrews 4 15 to 16 for we do not have a high priest who is
41:09unable to empathize with our weakness weaknesses but we have one who has been
41:13tempted in every way just as we are yet he did not sin and that all of this can
41:19occur in the middle of a society that absolutely claims to love for and have
41:26no higher desire than to care for and protect its children is really amazing
41:31that you can sail through in the midst of this living hell of abuse violence
41:36molestation rape torture that you can sail through as a child in a society
41:43and we're going to deal with this more in the next part of this when we talk
41:47about what actually happened in the recent David Turpin household which is
41:51almost beyond belief but it's like another dimension you know we have all
41:56these stories about other dimensions and parallel dimensions and alternate
42:00universes and so on but that's where the victims of abuse live that's where we
42:04live we live in this universe where it's the same planet but different
42:08worlds we sit in school with our secrets isolating us the sense of decay and
42:15disaster clings around us and repels others or draws dangerous others to us
42:21and society sees it all and society knows it all and society doesn't want to
42:28get involved and that of course is everyone's choice but the consequences
42:34of not getting involved we will talk about in the next part of this
42:39conversation which you will really need to brace yourself for because it's about
42:43as dark as things get but you can choose not to get involved but you need to
42:48understand the consequences of not getting involved which we will see in
42:53detail when we talk about the Turpin family as a whole and when you look at
42:59your own conscience as I've looked at mine as you look at your own conscience
43:02and say have I done what was necessary to protect the helpless and dependent
43:07children in my environment in my life in my world if you haven't you need to come
43:14to terms with that you need to find a way to live with that and to change for
43:18the better as we all do as I do as everyone does thank you for listening I
43:24look forward to your feedback on some of this true crime stuff and I will get to
43:31the next part of this conversation about the Turpin family soon