The vast majority of action in NBA free agency for the 2024 offseason has gone down, with rosters around the league looking more or less finished barring any unexpected trades. So with that in mind, we can begin to assess how the order of the league will look when opening night finally arrives for the 2024-25 season.
0:00 - Intro
1:13 - Sixers fans excited
3:00 - Pistons offseason review
6:49 - Team USA Camp impressions
8:43 - LeBron locks up Jeff
10:22 - Summer league impressions
14:17 - Sam Cassell overlooked
17:22 - Summer league insights
20:00 - Offseason trades and signings
22:57 - Non-contenders in the East
25:38 - Miami Heat's Decision
29:30 - Managing Jimmy's Behavior
34:20 - Bucks' Draft Failures
37:37 - Doc Rivers Impact
43:06 - Player's Game History
45:51 - Potential Pacers' Rise
And to get a handle on how movement in the Eastern Conference may have shifted the plate tectonics on which the order of the East will be forged, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast sat down with Sixers Wire editor Ky Carlin.
We get into which teams (or is it the singular team?) have elevated their games to contender status, which have fallen out of it, and even touch on the conference's emerging middle class. So, to get up to speed on the new landscape of the East and how threatened the Celtics should be by it (if at all), make sure to tune in to this episode.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Prize Picks and Gametime.
CLNS Media is Powered by:
Prize Picks - PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100!
Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
Right now, you can get 10% off your first purchase by going to https://ArenaClub.com/HOOPS. Wow, that’s a crazy offer.10% off a $400 Slab Pack, that’s $40 right there!
0:00 - Intro
1:13 - Sixers fans excited
3:00 - Pistons offseason review
6:49 - Team USA Camp impressions
8:43 - LeBron locks up Jeff
10:22 - Summer league impressions
14:17 - Sam Cassell overlooked
17:22 - Summer league insights
20:00 - Offseason trades and signings
22:57 - Non-contenders in the East
25:38 - Miami Heat's Decision
29:30 - Managing Jimmy's Behavior
34:20 - Bucks' Draft Failures
37:37 - Doc Rivers Impact
43:06 - Player's Game History
45:51 - Potential Pacers' Rise
And to get a handle on how movement in the Eastern Conference may have shifted the plate tectonics on which the order of the East will be forged, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast sat down with Sixers Wire editor Ky Carlin.
We get into which teams (or is it the singular team?) have elevated their games to contender status, which have fallen out of it, and even touch on the conference's emerging middle class. So, to get up to speed on the new landscape of the East and how threatened the Celtics should be by it (if at all), make sure to tune in to this episode.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by Prize Picks and Gametime.
CLNS Media is Powered by:
Prize Picks - PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100!
Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
Right now, you can get 10% off your first purchase by going to https://ArenaClub.com/HOOPS. Wow, that’s a crazy offer.10% off a $400 Slab Pack, that’s $40 right there!
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Alrighty, welcome to the South and South podcast brought to you by PrizePix, the exclusive
00:12tenancy basketball partner of the Sealand S Media Network.
00:15And by game time tickets, last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed.
00:19I'm Cameron Tipton-Dubai, I'm your host, I'm joined by Dr. Justin Quinn, and the rock god
00:24himself, Alex Goldberg.
00:25If you liked the music you just heard off the top of the show, that's Divine Sweater,
00:29go on tour, check it out.
00:32Today we're going to do the news, and today we're going to talk about basically everything
00:35we've seen in free agency and beyond.
00:37And to do that, we're bringing back Kai Carlin of Sixers Wire.
00:40Kai, what's up?
00:41What's up, guys?
00:42How are we doing today?
00:44You look like you caught some sun.
00:45Are you enjoying your off season?
00:49I am blessed with the fact that my apartment complex has three pools.
00:53So I have been hanging out at almost all of them, and one of the pools has a bar at them.
00:58So it's been a nice summer.
00:59Yeah, that's nice.
01:00We have a roof.
01:01I don't know.
01:02I've got a roof, that's what I've got too.
01:07So Kai, we'll do the news, and we'll kind of break down certainly the scope of the East,
01:14and if we have time, some of the West.
01:16But because A, you cover maybe the two most interesting teams, or you have ties to the
01:22two most interesting teams in the East, that would be the Sixers and the Pistons.
01:26So off the jump, what's the mood like among Sixers fans, measured and otherwise?
01:33Well, I haven't seen Sixers fans this excited since maybe the summer of 2019 when they all
01:42thought Al Horford was going to be the savior for the 76ers that summer.
01:48That's probably the most I've seen the Spanbase excited.
01:51No, all this, all jokes aside, like look, obviously when you bring in a guy like Paul
01:55George, four years, $212 million, I'm shocked that they were able to get him.
02:00And the reason why I'm shocked is because it's obvious he wanted to stay on the West
02:05Coast.
02:06Like it's obvious he's an LA native, and he's at a stage in his career where all of his
02:12business ventures, his podcast is out there, everything's out there.
02:16So the fact that they were able to get him here is pretty shocking.
02:20And I mean, I'm pretty sure George even said on his podcast, I didn't want to leave LA.
02:25I did not want to leave LA, but the Sixers offer more money.
02:29So that's obviously a huge deal.
02:32On paper, I think Paul George, Joel Embiid, and Tyrese Maxey form, like without a doubt,
02:38the most talented trio in the NBA.
02:41So the fan base here is very excited.
02:43All right, well, we'll come back.
02:46That was a hotter take than, I don't know if you saw the face that happened.
02:49I've heard this take in several places, and I think that that is true for 2019.
02:53Well, that's okay.
02:56Let's put a pit in that because I want to do the full news.
02:58But Kai, 30 seconds on the Pistons, because I know that is the team of your childhood.
03:06I mean, honestly, somebody asked me this today when we got done with Caleb Martin, Andre
03:13Drummond, and Kelly Oubre.
03:15Somebody asked me what grade I would give them.
03:17I think I said a B. I mean, mainly because the Tobias addition is mainly for the fact
03:24that they need a veteran in order to kind of push that rebuild along.
03:27And Tobias, for all of his warts and faults, he is a pro's pro.
03:31The guy handles himself with elite professionalism.
03:34And they're a young team that they have all these youngsters.
03:39So it's like at this point, just kind of have them go out there and just teach the youngsters
03:42how to be professionals in this league and just kind of move the rebuild forward.
03:46Obviously, the recent Cade Cunningham to the huge extension.
03:49I think that's the right move.
03:50I think he's awesome.
03:52And then Malik Beasley, lights out shooter.
03:56They finally realized you need to put shooting around your best player.
03:59Good for them for finally figuring out modern NBA basketball.
04:03And also the additions of Tim Hardaway Jr. and also another former Sixer, Paul Reed.
04:08I think Detroit's had a solid offseason.
04:11They're not in a position to win.
04:12They're going to be awful again next year.
04:14These are moves that help a rebuild forward.
04:17They just might not be historically awful.
04:22Right.
04:23Right.
04:24I think all of this is true.
04:25I do have to say, I would feel a little weird about the max contract extension for Cade
04:32Cunningham.
04:33I know.
04:34I understand.
04:35You have to do it.
04:36He's a franchise guy, et cetera, et cetera.
04:37The dude has not played a whole lot of games and the games that he has played.
04:41He's been good at stuff in the statute, but not a whole lot more than that.
04:46I get it.
04:47He's the number one draft pick.
04:48You got to do it.
04:49If you have any hope of building something, you need to have a centerpiece to build around.
04:54I'm more than a little worried about what that looks like in a few years or so.
05:00I would argue that he literally had the worst set of teammates around him.
05:08awkward, awkward roster ever.
05:11And the Pistons have failed him completely.
05:14That's not Cade's fault.
05:16They put Isaiah Stewart at power forward.
05:18I mean, what are we doing here?
05:19So it's like you went Isaiah Stewart in Jalen Duran and then Osara Thompson who shot what
05:2518% from three this year.
05:28They failed him.
05:30When you put shooting around them.
05:33Pretty fricking good.
05:34I mean, I'm pretty sure that he had multiple 40 plus point games and during that 28 games
05:40losing skid, but he, he had like literally the most awkward, worst set of teammates I've
05:47ever seen a team put a number one pick like the Pistons have failed him completely.
05:52And that's why Troy Weaver lost his job.
05:53And it's why Monty Williams lost his job.
05:55You guys failed Cade Cunningham completely.
05:58Let's let's put a pin in that.
06:01Well, no, it's okay.
06:03I just feel like the Pistons have to win more than whatever it is, 20 games before we open
06:08the show with them.
06:09We'll, we'll come back.
06:10We're going to come back.
06:11We're going to do the whole free agency so we can return to the Pistons if it's warranted,
06:15but let's do the news.
06:18And the Celtics news is kind of all over the place.
06:20It's here in Boston, but a lot of it's also in Las Vegas.
06:24I don't know.
06:25I kind of resent how much people like summer league and rookie stuff, but a lot of people
06:31do.
06:32I'm going to come back to Jeremy and Watson in a second, but first drew holiday and then
06:36later Jason Tatum got themselves to Vegas for USA camp.
06:40They have a scrimmage coming up against Canada and then a game in Abu Dhabi.
06:44And then later in the month, the Olympics kickoff in earnest, Justin, anything I missed
06:50from that summary.
06:51And what are your initial impressions from team USA?
06:53Well, there are, I figured four or five showcase games, exhibition games that are mostly, I
06:59think, going to be played in Abu Dhabi, in London, I think.
07:05Yeah.
07:06Something like that.
07:07A couple of different places.
07:08Not close together.
07:09It seems really random and weird.
07:12Then they go into the group stage play and hopefully the finals and whatnot beyond in
07:18Paris.
07:19But for at least the next week or so, they're going to be, I think, stateside and then Europe
07:24and then Abu Dhabi.
07:25Great.
07:26Alex, what's been your favorite Celtics or otherwise moment from the US?
07:31We're going to have a ton of content.
07:32Actually, the content team at USA basketball, shout out to them, the content they're putting
07:37out has been really, really good.
07:38Yeah.
07:39Alex, what's been your favorite clip or practice-ism or whatever?
07:45You know, I watched a little bit of the fourth quarter of the scrimmage between the select
07:49team and team USA earlier today, and a couple of things stood out to me.
07:54One, I think the drag for flag race is going to be pretty serious here, guys.
08:00Oh, I've heard it as capture the flag, which I like a little bit better.
08:06That dude's going to be really, really good.
08:08He seems super comfortable playing against current, very good NBA players.
08:15Think Cooper Flags for real.
08:16Peyton Pritchard looked pretty good on the select team, guys.
08:20I mean, I know it's just a scrimmage and, you know, who knows whether they take these
08:24things super seriously or not.
08:26I imagine that they're probably not going full throttle, pedaled on the metal in practice,
08:30but Peyton Pritchard looked pretty comfortable out there just orchestrating the offense for
08:35the select team and making the right reads, shooting the ball comfortably.
08:39You know, I was pretty impressed.
08:42The other team USA highlight that I thought was funny was there was a short, like, practice
08:48drill where Steve Kerr and the coaching staff were running some sort of drill.
08:51And the drill, I think, was a perimeter defensive drill.
08:55And it resulted in LeBron James locking up Jeff Van Gundy on the perimeter, which, like,
09:03I know LeBron's getting up there, but come on, you can't put Jeff Van Gundy on him.
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10:23Hi, whatever, either Joel Embiid or otherwise, what are some of your takeaways from
10:28what has been like three days of manicured content?
10:32Honestly, I just want to give a shout out to Sheree Phillips-Keaton from Netswire,
10:35because he's going to have a lot of drag for flag or capture the flag content for Netswire.
10:42I don't know, year and year or so, because I don't think anybody's really going to
10:46care what the Brooklyn Nets actually do on the basketball court this upcoming season.
10:51So shout out to Shareef.
10:53In terms of Joel content, I mean, I'll be honest with you.
10:58I haven't paid attention too much to Team USA.
11:01The Sixers started their summer league last night against the Oklahoma City Thunder.
11:05So it's been all Jared McCain and Adem Bona and Ricky Council IV here in Philadelphia.
11:11I mean, when the real games start, people will care about Joel.
11:14But at this moment in time, it's all about the new guys and summer league.
11:18Just getting ready to start up.
11:20Is there any lingering concern that he's not fully healthy?
11:24I mean, the fans here are worried.
11:27From my perspective, it's obviously I cover the guy.
11:30You know, I'm pretty sure he's fine.
11:31He keeps saying he's fine.
11:33He's always going to say he's fine no matter if he's not fine.
11:36But I don't really have any injury concerns.
11:41I mean, the guy is going to compete in the Olympics.
11:44It's something he's always wanted to do.
11:46And, you know, he's going to represent Team USA and try to win a gold medal.
11:49So all power to him.
11:51It's the Olympics.
11:52You know, you always support a guy and something like that.
11:55Cool.
11:55Yeah, I can dig that.
11:56I mean, he had three teams he could choose from when he picked the U.S.
12:00So we got to root for that.
12:02Absolutely.
12:03I am so uninterested in this storyline, but I think people are.
12:09So Kai settled two bets.
12:11Shaq said that Sam Kassel got passed over while J.J. Redick got the gig in L.A.
12:18And that's not cool.
12:19And he also said the Celtics are not going to repeat next year because they had an easy path.
12:24So do you think Sam Kassel is being overlooked on the coaching stage?
12:28Do you agree with Shaq there?
12:30And do you agree with Shaq that Boston had an easy shake in the postseason?
12:35See, I don't think I do think Kassel is getting looked over.
12:39So that I agree with.
12:42But I also I don't agree with that second take.
12:44I hate the whole I hate that entire narrative.
12:48I understand there was no Butler from Miami.
12:50There was and Mitchell missed games four and five of the Cleveland series, if I'm not mistaken.
12:56Halliburton missed games three and four.
12:58But then you went into Dallas and Dallas had arguably the two best players in that series.
13:03And Luka and Kyrie, arguably, I would take Tatum, obviously, over Kyrie.
13:07But I mean, and Brown.
13:09But it's it's arguable.
13:11But I mean, and Boston kicked their ass.
13:14You know what I mean?
13:15So it's just like you could literally make a oh, if this guy was was healthy about like
13:20almost every run.
13:22The Celtics had Christophe Krasinhas injured in every single round of the playoffs,
13:25if not for the full first and final round.
13:29But in every round, he missed games.
13:31Does the inverse not apply?
13:34Right.
13:34And so here's my thing.
13:36You could literally make that whole argument about like almost every title run.
13:39I mean, you can go back to the 2018 Warriors.
13:41Oh, if Chris Paul didn't get hurt, the Rockets probably win that series.
13:45Oh, 2019, the Raptors.
13:46Oh, Kevin Durant was playing.
13:48The Warriors probably win that series.
13:49Again, like you can make a run or an argument about that literally like every single title
13:55run.
13:55And I think it's the most idiotic, dumb argument ever.
13:59It's like, dude, you can say that about any title run.
14:00Like, let's be real.
14:04That's what we're open for.
14:05Because it's frustrating.
14:06It's just like, bro, like, who cares?
14:08A champion is a champion.
14:10Yeah.
14:11Just briefly on the Sam Cassell subject before we move on.
14:17It is a little crazy to me that Sam Cassell has not gotten a head coaching gig somewhere.
14:21That guy has now been a lead assistant or a high-ranking assistant for like 10 years
14:29in the NBA.
14:30He's been through every single different coaching situation you could possibly be in as an
14:36assistant.
14:36And the fact that he was a pretty significant part of the Celtics title run from a coaching
14:42standpoint.
14:43I understand Charles Lee's lead assistant.
14:46Joe Mizzoula, I think, did a pretty good job.
14:47But as far as player development guys go, Sam Cassell has now shown that he has some
14:53pretty clear chops.
14:53You would think even like a team that is, you know, kind of on the starting end of a
15:01rebuild, a team that is like, you know, very young and just kind of starting to shake things
15:05out, Sam Cassell would be a pretty immediately respected voice in the locker room.
15:10I'm not sure the Lakers gig would have necessarily been the best fit, just because, again, Sam
15:16Cassell's area of expertise really seems like it's player development more than anything,
15:20as opposed to, you know, trying to coach a title out of 39-year-old LeBron.
15:26But it is very surprising to me that nobody really gave him a serious look this past cycle.
15:32And if I could just add to that, the point that Alex just made.
15:36I mean, I know Cassell did wonders for Tyrese Maxey when Cassell was the assistant here
15:41in Philadelphia.
15:42So yeah, I agree.
15:43I feel like he should be a head coach somewhere.
15:46I mean, I'm happy he's picking in Boston because he seems like he's so good for keeping
15:51a steady culture in the locker room.
15:53But agreed, if he wants to be a head coach, which it seems like he does at this point,
15:58I'm not really sure why that opportunity doesn't exist.
16:01But there's, well, a good enough segue.
16:05I went to an event today where the Celtics unveiled that and Mika is their New Jersey
16:10patch sponsor.
16:11And I was talking to a couple people who work for the team and we agreed that, you know,
16:17the Celtics are really good at what they do.
16:19But respectfully, there are a lot of teams in the league that are not good at what they
16:22do.
16:22So maybe that has something to do with the Cassell situation.
16:27A couple more pieces of news and then away we'll go.
16:31We haven't really seen much of Baylor Shireman or Anton Watson, the two rookies of the Celtics
16:36drafted.
16:37They and we never got an answer why they had two closed door practices.
16:41So they did press availability and they did a community event and they seem like sharp
16:45kids who are both grew up Red Sox fans, which is kind of cute.
16:49And they both said, hey, I heard it's different here, which is also cute.
16:54But for whatever reason, the Celtics have closed summer league practice, which I don't
16:59remember them doing.
17:01They will eventually go to Las Vegas and their first game is, I believe, Saturday against
17:05Miami.
17:06So we'll see them soon enough.
17:07But for people who really love rookies and really love summer league, they have been
17:12guarded about their content.
17:14The only piece of news that I'll add to our run down, Justin, is J.D.
17:17Davison signed a two way, which I don't think we were expecting.
17:21Yeah, no, I thought they might be cutting bait on him.
17:24Me too.
17:25And basically the Austin Ainge and D.J.
17:30McLeod, the 29 year old coach for the summer league team, both said, look, the main guys,
17:35the two way guys, part of why they're playing in summer league is they haven't gotten real
17:39burn.
17:39We kept them around for the postseason, but they didn't play.
17:42So they didn't get reps.
17:44And we don't know what really what they're capable of.
17:46So I guess I want to take another look, which admittedly I'm surprised about.
17:52I don't know.
17:52I mean, there's not really much downside to giving J.D.
17:54Davison a two way at the end of the day, feels like.
17:58Still super young.
17:58He could still keep developing.
18:00Sure, I guess.
18:05Justin, you want to tell us about the new assistant coaches?
18:10The new assistant coaches.
18:11OK, so I did a double take when I read that Godsham God is going to be an assistant coach,
18:16but it's not Godsham God.
18:17It's Godsham God Jr., who I believe Joe coached at one point.
18:22I forget where Fairmont State, I think it was.
18:25Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:28DeSean Butler played with him at West Virginia and then later coached with him, I think, at
18:31Fairmont State or some other stop along the way.
18:36And they're going to join.
18:38Well, they're replacing Blaine Mueller, who was the one season last season main Celtics
18:43coach and Jermaine Buckner, who was an assistant.
18:47I don't know too much about him.
18:48He probably know him better than I do.
18:51And they're joining Kemba as an assistant.
18:54Walker, as we reported previously, and Grant Williams will be there as well.
18:58So we have a little Celtics South going on.
19:00Maybe the only bright spot in that organization.
19:03I don't know.
19:03Maybe they've been getting better.
19:05New Leaf, blah, blah, blah.
19:06Brandon Miller is a bright spot.
19:08That guy's good.
19:09Yeah, that's fair.
19:10I love Brandon Miller.
19:11I love him.
19:12Get him out of there.
19:16It's funny because we actually talked about the Hornets earlier, me and a couple of Philly
19:19media guys.
19:21I said that I love a healthy Charlotte team.
19:24They could be like an eight seed and then they could be a fun kind of eight seed and
19:29maybe a nine seed in a play-in tournament.
19:32Because a lot of people forget they made the play-in two years in a row when they had a
19:37somewhat healthy team.
19:39I mean, it's not like they're completely devoid of talent.
19:42I'm really curious to see what Charles Lee can do with that team.
19:47No, I think Charles is a great coach.
19:49I begrudgingly agree with you with the talent.
19:52Although it looks like the Clippers are taking the mantle of, we don't care about your past.
19:56Just come play basketball with us.
19:58Maybe I just want to clarify.
20:02I like them as basketball players.
20:04Not sure if I really ask people.
20:08Well, a good enough segue, I suppose, to the lab portion of the programming where we're
20:12going to talk about trades and free agent signings and yada, yada, yada.
20:17Justin, what's your vision for this?
20:19Because we have the whole league at our disposal.
20:24We do.
20:25I think we should probably go conference by conference.
20:28Let's just talk about the teams that we think actually made some moves worth talking about,
20:32because I mean, I was very generous on the rundown.
20:36We definitely don't need to talk about all of them unless you have a pet.
20:39Like for me, for example, we talked about Detroit earlier, but like for me, they were
20:44one of the teams that I picked as a favorite offseason move team just because they finally,
20:50after what seems like about a half decade, have a direction.
20:53It might not be a good direction.
20:54They might not have good tools to start it with.
20:57But it's better than what they were doing, which is mostly collecting big men.
21:01Right, right.
21:02I mean, I completely agree with that.
21:05And they're not going to win a playoff round.
21:08But, you know, making it to the playoffs at all.
21:11Honestly, I mean, it doesn't matter.
21:13Sniff them.
21:14They could sniff them.
21:15There's some really bad teams.
21:16Nor should they, frankly, want to with the 2025 drafts coming up.
21:23Well, but then doesn't that get confusing?
21:25Why did they have a respectable offseason if they should have like really ripped it
21:30down to the studs?
21:32As it plays, they took on some, they got some assets for some of those moves.
21:35So I mean, some of them might pan out also enough to get an asset in the future.
21:41Yeah, nothing wrong with a pump and dump for the trade deadline.
21:44Right, right.
21:47And you know what, Cam?
21:48I was actually thinking the same thing.
21:50Like I think Alex is going to mention that Tobias could also be a tradable asset.
21:53Maybe that next year's deadline was an expiring deal.
21:56It's just a two-year deal.
21:58Like he's a guy that could be traded at either deadline.
22:01So be curious to see how they handle that.
22:04We saw this, I mean, approaching 10 years ago when the Celtics were rebuilding.
22:07It's good to carry expensive contracts in case you want to move them in case you want
22:12to ditch them together.
22:14I just, I don't know.
22:16I think there's gonna be some really bad teams in the East next year.
22:19And it's gonna be really interesting because going into the playoffs, we're gonna be looking
22:24at the most recent few weeks.
22:27But like some teams are really gonna pack it in to capture the flag.
22:31And so all of the spring regular season data next year is gonna go out the window.
22:36Because Boston's obviously not gonna win 64 games again, except there's gonna be so many
22:41teams that are desperately tanking that the easy wins will have never come more easy.
22:47So that'd be, I don't think 64 wins is on the docket, but it'll be interesting to see
22:52just how bad some of these teams end up being.
22:54So let's start with teams that are no longer contenders in the East.
23:01Are there any?
23:02Yeah, Miami, is that, was that the setup?
23:05Yeah, what the hell are they doing?
23:06Is it, I don't know, maybe they're just gonna take the year and reassess and trade Jimmy
23:12or just like fold up shop there.
23:14But that's not a team full of assets, full of young talent.
23:20Terry Rozier is healthy, and I'm curious to see what that looks like.
23:23But Bruce isn't doing it for you?
23:27No.
23:27Here's the crazy part, though.
23:29We say all this, but then they're gonna miraculously make a deep run to the playoffs again.
23:35Yeah, they're gonna beat the Bucks in the second round, the first round, get to the
23:38second round.
23:39Right, right.
23:40Like, because I agree with you, they shouldn't, they're not contenders, right?
23:43But I think we also said that about them in 2023, as that eighth seed, and they somehow
23:49got there.
23:50But then we all said that, again, about them this year, and obviously Boston disposed of
23:53them rather quickly.
23:55But it's just like, even 2022 was kind of weird, because they were the number one seed.
24:00But I remember everybody was like, oh, Philly will beat them.
24:02Like Philly, Philly will beat them.
24:03They're a much better team.
24:04They ended up beating Philly, and then they pushed Boston to seven games.
24:08Even though they were the number one seed at the time, a lot of people just kind of
24:12poo-pooed on the Miami Heat a little bit.
24:14It's just, they're such a weird team, because I agree with you that they shouldn't be considered
24:19contenders.
24:20But then come playoff time, like, nobody's gonna want to play them either, though.
24:23Like, if they get in, of course.
24:24But nobody's gonna want to play them, especially if Jimmy's healthy.
24:28So there are two storylines with the Miami Heat that are, I think, kind of interesting
24:32for this offseason.
24:33The first is that the Miami Heat, for whatever lack of moves they have made, they did already
24:40make their best move for the offseason, which is extending Bam out of Bayou and locking
24:44up his long-term future with the franchise.
24:47That guy is really good.
24:49Bam is their franchise cornerstone.
24:50I think it's now pretty clear, based on that extension, that over the course of the next
24:56five years, the plan is to build something around Bam out of Bayou.
24:59I don't know what, but that's the plan.
25:01They also did not extend Jimmy Butler, and they still haven't extended Jimmy Butler.
25:07And they're not going to extend Jimmy Butler.
25:09So this is the thing.
25:11If they're not going to extend Jimmy Butler, guys, I mean, Kai, you know plenty well what
25:18happens when Jimmy Butler goes into a situation where his contract issues have not been resolved.
25:27Things can get really messy really quickly.
25:31And as Zach Lowe and others have often said, general soreness could be making a return
25:39here.
25:40So as far as the Miami Heat's playoff and title chances, to me, it feels like they have
25:45to make a decision one way or another before we know whether this team can actually do
25:50anything or not.
25:51They have to either extend Jimmy Butler or say, no, definitively, we are not going to
25:56do that, and then manage that situation accordingly.
25:58So the longer this drags on, the worse it's going to get.
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27:25So I totally agree about the BAM thing.
27:27I think, to your point, they keep surprising.
27:30I think part of it is BAM is arguably the best defensive player in the conference.
27:34BAM's awesome.
27:35The Jimmy thing, they might just paint themselves in a corner there.
27:37I don't know how they get out of that one.
27:39See, the Jimmy thing to me is so interesting.
27:43And it's funny.
27:44Sharif and I are Netswire guys.
27:46We talk about this Jimmy thing all the time, actually.
27:49And I always kind of just argue that you're not paying Jimmy for the regular season because
27:54he never really cares about the regular season anyway.
27:58I mean, again, I covered him when he was here in Philadelphia for that half a season.
28:03When game one against the Brooklyn Nets came around, going into that locker room pregame,
28:08it was a different Jimmy than what I saw in the regular season, just the way he locked it.
28:14So to Alex's point about the whole general soreness stuff,
28:18that's going to come regardless, honestly.
28:20Because he doesn't give a damn about anything from October to mid-April.
28:25So he's going to continue to take games off.
28:27He's going to continue to doze off and whatever.
28:32He cares only about the playoffs.
28:34So that's going to happen regardless.
28:37In terms of will he throw a temper tantrum like he did to Minnesota, or even to a lesser
28:43extent here in Philadelphia, like a little one, I don't think the heat will really allow that.
28:48Because I know for a fact, I think I heard a story that at the beginning of every training
28:55camp, Eric Spolster writes Pat Riley's phone number on the board and says,
28:59if anybody do you have an issue with my coaching, hit up that guy right there.
29:03He's going to tell you the same thing.
29:05So I feel like that's kind of the way Miami runs things.
29:09I don't think they're really going to allow any temper tantrums.
29:13If they do, they'll figure it out.
29:14Remember, they had the little blow up with Jimmy and Haslam.
29:18They could Andre Karalenko him for however long they need to and then buy him a new home
29:23if they can find that salary.
29:24Or they could just put him on ice for the rest of the season if he's big enough.
29:28Pretty clear that if he doesn't play a lot, they're not going anywhere.
29:32Right.
29:32So for me, none of that's really going to...
29:36I don't think it's going to be a factor in Miami.
29:38If this was any other team, then sure.
29:39But I don't think the heat is really going to allow that.
29:42I only bring it up to say that as far as contender status goes,
29:47with all of the stuff swirling around Miami at this point with Jimmy Butler's contract,
29:51with the fact that they keep losing talent and have not really done much to replace it,
29:55it feels like it's awfully hard for me to put them in the contender tier.
29:58They might be able to sneak a playoff spot, but I kind of don't see it.
30:03Yeah.
30:04So Justin, I have two other teams that maybe you were also thinking about that
30:08aren't tanking but are probably just like weirdly treading water.
30:13I suspect you can guess both of them.
30:16Are you sticking to conference or are we going to do all at once?
30:19Let's stick with the east.
30:20Let's just do the east.
30:21Worst case scenario, we'll do the west next week.
30:24Can you guys guess the two treading water teams that I'm thinking about?
30:28I'm sure you can.
30:29The Magic?
30:30The Bucks.
30:30No, I think the Magic are up and up.
30:32Oh, the Bucks.
30:33The Bucks.
30:34And the Hawks.
30:35The Hawks.
30:37And what about Toronto?
30:40Well, yeah.
30:40I don't know what is going on in Toronto.
30:42Like Toronto is just...
30:45I don't know what they're doing, man.
30:47Toronto is firmly in capture the flag mode, guys.
30:51Yeah.
30:54The Bucks.
30:55I think the Bucks and the Heat you can talk yourself into.
30:59Let's just get it to the postseason, try to be healthy.
31:03And on muscle memory and talent, we can win a playoff series or two or maybe three.
31:07Like they have a lot of top line talent.
31:09And you know, when Bam's healthy, when Giannis is healthy,
31:12those are players that other teams really don't have answers for.
31:15So I think part of it is the Magic has run out.
31:19Cupboard is bare for those two teams.
31:21But also maybe they respect that and they're okay with that.
31:24I think they might be low-key trying to convince Giannis to ask out.
31:29You've tried that take on before.
31:31I like that take.
31:32Just because like, look what they did.
31:33They needed older players from the draft and defensive wing stoppers,
31:38even if they can't do anything else but slow wings down to make that team functional.
31:44And they got the opposite of all of it.
31:46And also to that end, Giannis changed the Bucks organization forever.
31:52And being the front office that trades him or mismanages him is going to be a big stain.
31:59And at the same time, ownership groups aren't...
32:01Like the Celtics are in line for $200 million tax bill next year,
32:05and $250 million the year after that.
32:07Owners aren't going to pay out-of-pocket tax bills
32:10to say nothing of like the other costs going to running a team.
32:13A, if they are not title contenders.
32:16But B, they're just like most of the owners are not going to pay that straight up.
32:20So if you're the Bucks ownership and you're not interested in
32:24paying salary tax after salary tax after salary tax,
32:28yeah, Justin, I don't know that that's like super conspiratorial so much as like
32:31there are going to be teams that hope that their stars blink first,
32:36because they need tax relief and salary relief.
32:39And there's no indications yet that Milwaukee is an unhappy place for Giannis.
32:45And maybe he'll, you know, meddle in the Olympics and go in like super jazzed and energized.
32:50But I don't think it's like if someone is listening to this and they're like,
32:54oh, these Celtics homers are trying to squeeze Giannis out.
32:57No, I think it's a NBA.
33:00I think historically, the NBA has examples of that.
33:03And with just like the way that the penalties are financially.
33:07Yeah, they have nothing left to build with
33:10and no path forward unless they trade some star players.
33:14It's the only way they can avoid being.
33:17Yeah.
33:17To that point, though, Justin, I do think as far as forcing Giannis out,
33:23I'm not sure if this is necessarily an intentional thing,
33:26or if this is the result of what I have as a kind of slightly hot take,
33:34which is that since their title run, guys,
33:38John Horse has been among the worst GMs in the league
33:41in terms of building a roster around Giannis.
33:45Damian Lillard trade, I completely understand.
33:47You're going for a home run.
33:49I was so mad.
33:50Hold on, hold on, hold on.
33:52In the context of what you're looking at.
33:54If Giannis says I want him, yeah.
33:56If Giannis says I want Damian Lillard, you go get Damian Lillard.
34:00I understand from a GM standpoint, like the motivation to do that.
34:04If you're betting that Damian Lillard is the guy that he was in Portland
34:08and that with Giannis, you know, blah, blah, blah.
34:11It didn't work.
34:12That's not why I think John Horse is the worst GM in the NBA right now.
34:16We're pretty damn close to it.
34:18Guys, the Bucks have missed on nearly every draft pick that they've had
34:23since Giannis took them to the title in, what was it, 2021?
34:28Yeah.
34:30They have failed to develop any young talent of any notoriety on the team.
34:36AJ Green, lovely guy.
34:38Sure, he's a perfectly solid basketball player.
34:40Can't be in a playoff rotation right now.
34:42Chris Middleton and Brook Lopez were both aging out of being
34:48legit high value starters last year.
34:54And that was the time that they should have moved them.
34:56They didn't.
34:56And now they're stuck with an enormous tax bill for an aging roster
35:01with very few draft picks and very little flexibility.
35:04I'm not sure if this is an intentional plan to sabotage Giannis and push him out.
35:09I think that the Bucks have largely been very incompetently run
35:13since their title run.
35:14And frankly, it's pretty astonishing to me that,
35:19you know, like looking back in hindsight when they did win their title,
35:23obviously Giannis had like one of the great playoff runs of all time.
35:27They scrapped and clawed to get that thing, man.
35:31Like they were running on fumes by the end of that
35:34and made one last big push over the top.
35:37But that was not an easy title run.
35:39And in some ways felt like a little bit of an unexpected one.
35:43And obviously, you know, the Nets got hurt.
35:45It's a whole thing, et cetera, et cetera.
35:47Can I dust off one of my favorite NBA conspiracies today?
35:50I have one more thing to throw in, which is that-
35:53Purchase!
35:54After doing that, you would think surely that you would reward Mike Budenholzer
36:01and give him a little bit of grace with regard to playoff exits,
36:06particularly if, I don't know, your star player gets injured
36:08in the middle of a postseason run,
36:12which has happened now twice in a row for the Bucs.
36:15The decision to fire Mike Budenholzer remains a head scratcher to me
36:20when that guy has not only proven that he is a literal championship level head coach,
36:26but if anything, is now kind of setting the template
36:30for a lot of what teams are trying to create
36:33as far as their personnel and their schemes go.
36:36Guys, Joe Mazzuola is a great coach, and I love Mazzuola ball.
36:39Mazzuola ball is Mike Budenholzer ball in a different font, in a lot of different ways.
36:45Yeah, and-
36:47On offense, not on defense.
36:49I think the decision to can Mike Budenholzer
36:53will really come back as one that was very reactionary and short-sighted in the moment.
37:00This Bucs team has kind of made all the wrong moves since they won the title,
37:04and-
37:06It's not just that they make the wrong moves,
37:07but then they make further wrong moves like the Adrian Griffin signing,
37:11which then they bring on Doc, which is like this-
37:15We should probably pick another team to talk about
37:17because I'm getting mad about a team I do not cover, and I'm not a fan of.
37:21We should.
37:23I will say this.
37:24I think a full training camp with Doc will help them.
37:27Like-
37:28Like a full training camp with Doc, I think will help them.
37:31But yeah, no, I totally agree with everything Alex has said about
37:34the way they've been run since they won the title in 21.
37:37It's been pretty bad.
37:38I completely agree.
37:39With that being said, I do think a full training camp will help them with Doc.
37:43But Doc is Doc.
37:44Obviously, I covered Doc for three years here in Philly.
37:47I know the guy refuses to make adjustments.
37:49So I'll be curious to see how they do in the playoffs next year.
37:53That's all.
37:54There's two other Eastern Conference teams that we definitely need to talk about,
37:57but really quickly, and then we should move on.
38:01All this being said, I still think the Bucks could absolutely make the finals
38:06if Giannis just has another insane Giannis run.
38:09That's very much on the table.
38:11The problem is that the margin for error went from
38:14there's a little bit of cushion to it's basically non-existent.
38:17Now, Giannis has to have a historic run for them to make a title run.
38:22There's no if, ands, or buts.
38:24Like-
38:25Yeah, I think we are now at the point where
38:31Giannis basically has to become a truly historically dominant player
38:38in order for the Bucks to get back to the finals, which he could do.
38:41I mean, last year, he was a plausible MVP candidate.
38:45I mean, he was up there as one of the best players,
38:48regular and advanced analytics, and the Bucks weren't that good.
38:52So yeah, it's not just like he's got to be really good.
38:54It's got to be like the best Giannis season maybe we've ever seen.
38:59Yeah, my favorite NBA conspiracy theory is that during that 21 finals,
39:03you know, CP3 missed two or three games in COVID protocols.
39:06My conspiracy is that Giannis had COVID and they didn't report it.
39:12And there's a lot-
39:12I don't remember you mentioning this.
39:13Yeah, I'm all over that one.
39:15We can talk about it later.
39:16Anyways, yeah, let's stick with the East.
39:20Atlanta.
39:21So I also think Atlanta's treading water.
39:24I don't really know what happens next for them,
39:27other than I don't think they're going to be very good.
39:31But we might as well close by talking about the good teams.
39:34I, respectfully, I think the Celtics are still the class of the East and it's not close.
39:42I do think it's fair to wonder who the second best team is,
39:45and certainly in the division.
39:46Where do you come down on Sixers versus Knicks in terms of
39:51full health, best case scenario,
39:53which team is most likely to punch a tick at the conference finals or beyond?
39:58See, as all three of you know, I've been so down on the Sixers no matter what.
40:03Yeah, there's going to be no homer take here.
40:05This is good.
40:05Yeah, like I have never bought this team, ever.
40:10But I will say if this team's fully-
40:12if this team's finally healthy,
40:14I have them as the number two team in the East,
40:17because of what Joel does, what Paul George does.
40:22Maxie has proven himself in the playoffs.
40:26I thought he was fantastic in that Knicks series.
40:28Even Joel on one leg, you have to give him a lot of credit.
40:31I mean, he scored 50 in game three,
40:33and I think he averaged like 34 for the series.
40:35I mean, he was fantastic.
40:38I love the Caleb Martin addition.
40:40I think that's such an underrated pickup for them.
40:43As you Celtics fans know, for some reason,
40:45Caleb just decides to turn into Ray Allen whenever he plays against the Celtics.
40:51So I think that he's a terrific pickup.
40:54Drummond, obviously, is such a huge addition.
40:58They were awful in that Knicks series when Joel went to the bench.
41:03I don't remember the number off the top of my head,
41:05but it was such an astronomical number when Joel went to the bench.
41:09It was crazy.
41:09The Sixers would be up 12.
41:11They put Paul Reed in, and they'd be down two in two minutes.
41:15It was crazy.
41:16But I don't think it's going to be that drastic of a drop-off for Drummond.
41:20I like the Eric Gordon addition.
41:23Bringing back Tyrese was obviously huge for them.
41:26Oubre, obviously.
41:28I think Lowry probably comes back.
41:29I know the Suns want him, but I think Lowry does come back.
41:35And they lost Tobias and Nick Batum.
41:37You know what I mean?
41:38And obviously, Paul Reed.
41:40I look at the Sixers, and I swear, if that team's fully healthy,
41:43they should be the number two team in the East.
41:45They should.
41:46But obviously, should doesn't mean they will.
41:51It's so funny to me that this is, once again, just a shamelessly Daryl Morey guy's team.
41:58Eric Gordon is back again.
42:00Andre Drummond is back again.
42:02Daryl Morey really does have his dudes are the dudes that he wants on this team.
42:08I know Jayne Tarden is not there, but there's a lot of Morey guys on this team.
42:12Listen, the Sixers moves this offseason, I think, have objectively positioned them about
42:17as well as they have been in the Embiid era.
42:19This is probably, on paper, the best roster that they've had, basically, in Joel's entire
42:25career, from the top to bottom.
42:28There's two things that stand out to me.
42:30Obviously, the big one, Joel Embiid is turning 30 and has not had a single healthy playoff
42:37run to his name.
42:39And everything with the Sixers starts there.
42:44The Paul George, the Tyrese Maxey, that's all lovely.
42:46If Joel Embiid is not healthy by the playoffs, none of it's going to matter.
42:49But same thing with Paul George, though.
42:53That's the issue, and I think a lot of people don't realize.
42:54Paul George gets hurt just as much as Joel does.
42:57He played 74 games this year for the Clippers.
42:59It's the first time in five years he hit 60 games.
43:03Right.
43:04But the season before, I think in 23, I think he played 56 games.
43:08The year before that, he played 31.
43:10The year before that, 48.
43:12The year before that, 54.
43:14He didn't play the entire 2023 playoffs.
43:17He was, I don't know if you guys remember, but in the 2022 play-in, he had to miss the
43:22Pelicans game because I think he tested, I think it was in the health and safety protocols.
43:26So, it's like, he's just as unreliable as Joel is, which is why it's hard to envision
43:33them remaining healthy and being that number two seed.
43:37But if the basketball gods do finally shine down upon them, and they are healthy, I think
43:44they're leaps and bounds better than New York, because all New York has is the power of friendship.
43:51Between Brunson, Brunson's awesome, by the way.
43:55Love Jalen Brunson.
43:57Between Brunson, DiVincenzo, Hart, McHale, I mean, I'm not sure if that's better than
44:06Philadelphia's core.
44:08I think Maxie's legitimate.
44:11We all know what Paul George does.
44:12We all know what Joel does.
44:14Now, I will offer this before, obviously, you guys give your own takes.
44:19New York starting five that got them within a game of the conference finals is essentially
44:24their bench unit this year.
44:25Because Julius Randall's coming back.
44:28Is that a good thing?
44:30I think so.
44:31The guy's an all-star.
44:31I mean, come on.
44:34I don't know.
44:36Honestly, if he was their sixth man, I think that plays differently.
44:41I don't see how the offense, unless he radically changes how he sees himself as a facilitator
44:47and a cog in an offensive machine, I just feel like he plays in the mud.
44:52He doesn't play beautiful basketball.
44:54I mean, they're going to need him to play more five after losing Hart and Stein anyway.
44:58So maybe playing a role where he's less involved in all the action will help tone down his
45:04wrecking ball tendencies.
45:06I could see, if he buys into the program in the same kind of way that we're talking about,
45:11if the 76ers are healthy, very large ifs, there would be a pretty good path to being
45:18a significant challenger for Boston.
45:21But that would also require Porzingis, for example, not being ready at the right time.
45:26And maybe another injury mixed in for good measure or some other factor creating some
45:32kind of a tension that didn't exist last season, which could happen.
45:36Things happen after people win titles.
45:37People's priorities change, et cetera.
45:40But for now, I am not really seeing the vision for either of those teams being a serious
45:45threat to Boston, though significantly better than either was last season.
45:49And honestly, if momentum is a thing and continuity is a thing, I think there is a chance that
45:57number three seed or even the number two seed could end up being the Indiana Pacers.
46:02For now, I have them fourth, but it would not blow my mind if they make a step forward
46:06as they start to figure things out as well.
46:08Yeah, we didn't talk about the Cavs, the magic, the solid middle class of the East.
46:14But let's put a pin in that because, Kai, I know you need to go.
46:17And guess what?
46:18We have like 10 more weeks to pontificate about what might happen.
46:23Kai, can I ask you quick answers to a few Sixers questions?
46:28Absolutely.
46:30What the hell is this Tyrese Maxey Museum?
46:33I think it's an amazing move by the Sixers to show that he is valued.
46:39You know what I mean?
46:41But is it real or is it like the Blake Griffin thing?
46:44I think it's a Blake Griffin thing.
46:45But I think it's one of those things, though, where it just shows Tyrese like, hey, listen,
46:51we appreciate you for everything you've done these first four years.
46:55There's a reason why we're paying you $205 million over the next five years because we
46:59expect to add to this thing.
47:03I think it shows potential for agents, too, that the Sixers value their players, which
47:09is building something of a culture, which is something they really haven't had in the
47:13last decade or so.
47:15I can see that with the Oubre signing, too, because he managed to octuple his salary almost,
47:19well, no, quadruple his salary through doing a service year, if you will, on a minimum
47:24with them.
47:25So they might be able to pull in a couple of the last unsigned guys to help fix that
47:30non-existent depth at the moment.
47:32Yeah, at the moment, they don't have any.
47:33At the moment, they don't have any depth.
47:35I mean, I do love the rookie, Jared McCain.
47:37Yeah, that was going to be my next question.
47:39Is he going to play?
47:41I'm not sure.
47:42I mean, I think he...
47:43Let me take that back.
47:43I think he will play his rookie season, but he's not going to play in October, November,
47:48December.
47:50He's going to need some time.
47:52I thought he looked good in the team's first summer league game in the win over the Thunder.
47:56He looked calm, looked under control, looks like he can handle things.
48:00The kid works his ass off, which is going to obviously be a huge selling point for him.
48:07It's just going to be all about just growing and building with him, though.
48:11He is a rookie.
48:11He's only like 20.
48:13Sweet.
48:14OK, last Sixers question, and then we'll let you go watch the game.
48:17Are they really bringing back the black jerseys, or is that a teased alternate jersey?
48:21I wish.
48:23I wish.
48:23I know for a fact they are working on bringing those back, because to me, those are my personal
48:29favorite Sixers jerseys.
48:30Those are the A.I. jerseys.
48:31Those are the best.
48:31Of all time.
48:34A lot of the older Sixers fans don't like them, and the older fans claim people only
48:40like them because of Iverson.
48:43What's wrong with that?
48:45Exactly.
48:46But I personally think those are fantastic.
48:50I remember even Andre Miller wearing those jerseys when I was a kid, like when they
48:53traded Iverson to Denver.
48:56But yeah, I know they're trying to bring that back, but I think that it's going to be more
49:022025-2026 season, more so than the upcoming 24-25 year.
49:08All right, good to know.
49:09All right, let me pack up shop.
49:11I've got a bunch of things I have to read and say as we do that, but Kai, per usual,
49:15thank you, thank you, thank you very much.
49:17Kai writes for Sixers Wire.
49:19Anything else to plug right now, Kai?
49:21No, that's it.
49:22Go ahead and keep checking out Sixers Wire, though.
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49:27Definitely love that.
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49:35Please, do the same thing with Celtics Wire, please.
49:37Yeah, click on our ads, too.
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49:40The bosses really like when you do that.
49:42Click like and subscribe if you haven't.
49:44Click, what's the verb on Spotify?
49:47Follow, pre-save, share for Divine Sweater, Alex's band music, who plays our intro music.
49:53What's the name of the song that just came out?
49:56Counterparts is the name of the song that just came out.
49:59And for those of you who are also vinyl heads out there, if you go to the website, you can
50:05put in an order to reserve a limited edition vinyl for our upcoming album to be released
50:12mid-September.
50:13Anyway, DivineSweater.com.
50:15Sweet.
50:16They'll be in Somerville for a nice fest for all you Massachusetts-based listeners.
50:20Anyways, this episode of the Celtics Live podcast was brought to you by PrizePix, the
50:24exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the CNS Media Network.
50:27It's also brought to you by Game Time Tickets, last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed.
50:30If you enjoyed this podcast, check out the How About Them Celtics, the first of the four
50:33podcasts in the many New England sports podcasts available on the CNS Media Network.
50:39Plug for Justin Quinn's trip to the motherland, back to New England.
50:42How about that?
50:44I enjoy Summer League.
50:45You're not going to Vegas, right?
50:47No, not this year.
50:48It was either go to Summer League or take a vacation.
50:50So I decided to take the vacation route.
50:53I'm going to Tampa.
50:54It's going to be my first vacation since 2021.
50:57So I am exhausted.
51:00I need this vacation.
51:01I need a break.
51:03The 18th to the 21st is when I'm heading down to Tampa, Florida.
51:07All right.
51:07Yeah, I was looking through when you were talking about the next six or series.
51:13I was looking at our texts through the spring.
51:15I said, how are you feeling?
51:16Happy off-season.
51:17You said, amazing.
51:18Honestly, I need a break.
51:19So I'm glad you're taking a vacation.
51:21I need one.
51:22I'm finally going to get a vacation.
51:23It's been so long.
51:24Larry's been three years.
51:26I need a recharge.
51:28All right, cool.
51:29Well, enjoy yourself.
51:29Make good choices down there.
51:31Like and subscribe.
51:33Otherwise, I guess we'll talk about the Western Conference and anything else we missed next week.
51:38Stay tuned.
51:39And until then, adios.