There are elections in over 50 nations scheduled for 2024. How old is democracy? Does the Bible sanction it? Do people often act like they want to be deceived? Are there men on the ballots that meet the Bible's criteria for leaders? How does the Bible show that leaders are to be put in place? Is the lessor of two evils still evil? Does the Bible teach that, "the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, gives it to whomever He will, and sets over it the lowest of men in Daniel 4:17? Could someone vote against God's plan? Do people know more than a prophet of God when it comes to choosing leaders? Are there truly pro-voting scriptures in the Bible? Are God's people to support a crowd in doing evil? Will voting change the coming destruction that the Bible prophesies? Steve Dupuie and Dr. Thiel go over these matters.
A written article of related interest is available titled 'Should a Christian Vote?' URL: https://www.cogwriter.com/vote.htm
A written article of related interest is available titled 'Should a Christian Vote?' URL: https://www.cogwriter.com/vote.htm
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00:00Greetings, friends, this is Steve Dupuy for the Bible News Prophecy Program with Dr. Bob
00:09Thiel.
00:10Dr. Thiel, it's presidential voting season in the U.S. once again.
00:15Where did the concept of voting come from anyway?
00:18Well, democracy was known before the time of Jesus.
00:22In ancient Greece, all the male citizens were expected to vote.
00:26Then they introduced that concept to the Romans.
00:30It changed it a little bit to what's called a Republican model, which is basically what
00:35the United States, for example, claims to be.
00:37And Republican elected representatives are supposed to vote for the interpretations of
00:41the will of the people, but not the will of God.
00:45Yet many people, particularly Western societies, feel that some form of democracy is the best
00:50form of government.
00:51But God agreed.
00:52Well, in Proverbs 16, 23, the Bible warns us, there's a way that seems right to a man,
01:00but its end is a way of death.
01:02It also warns in Jeremiah 10, verse 23, it is not in man who walks to direct his own
01:08steps.
01:09It's against democracy as we know it.
01:12Anyway, in Genesis 2, 17, God warned Abednego not to partake of the knowledge of the tree
01:18of good and evil, but they didn't listen to God.
01:21They decided they wanted to do things their way.
01:24So that's perhaps the first recorded action of human democracy.
01:29Anyway, nowhere in the Bible do we see God sanctioning democracy.
01:35If God does not sanction democracy, what does he sanction?
01:40Well, the Bible shows that God appointed leaders, made them known to his people, from Enoch
01:46to Noah to Moses to King David to the prophets to Jesus and to the apostles.
01:53We don't see anything encouraging democracy.
01:56Interestingly, when Samuel was God's appointed leader and judge, the majority of the people,
02:05democracy, wanted the king like the rest of the world.
02:08And they had legitimate criticism of, call it bad management or corruption in Samuel's
02:15administration, if we can use that term.
02:18But what did God say?
02:19God told Samuel, no, you haven't rejected Samuel.
02:23It's me, God, that they rejected.
02:25The Bible says it was evil in the sight of the people to ask for government to be like
02:30the nations around them.
02:32Now, this year in 2024, there have been elections in the European Union, the United Kingdom,
02:38India, Iran, and elsewhere.
02:41And as you mentioned, the United States is having its presidential election this year.
02:46But since humanity did decide to choose for themselves what is right and wrong, shouldn't
02:52Christians vote in an attempt to choose the right decision instead of the wrong?
02:57Not according to the Bible.
02:58Before I get more of the scriptures, I'd like to read something that was from Daily Reckoning
03:04this year.
03:05The world wants to be deceived.
03:07Mundus vult nocepi ergo nocepitur.
03:13The world wants to be deceived, so let it be so.
03:17The world yearns to be deceived, eternally and infinitely deceived.
03:21This is from a secular writer.
03:23Why else, sisters and brothers, do people attend magic shows, consult psychics, or read
03:28the New York Times editorial columns?
03:31Why indeed do people vote?
03:32The answer, so far as we can discern, is because they wish to be deceived.
03:37You know, it's a deception, at least from a human perspective, that humans can solve
03:42the major problems that they face by ignoring the Word of God and by not placing their hope
03:49in the return of Jesus and establishment of the coming Kingdom of God.
03:54Reading the New York Times editorial, and a desire to be deceived, is a great line.
03:59What does God tell us to do in order to avoid deception?
04:02Well, in the last chapter, the last book of the Bible, Revelation chapter 22, starting
04:08verse 14, we find, blessed are those who do His commandments.
04:11They'll have the right to the tree of life.
04:14But outside are dogs and sorcerers, et cetera, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
04:22So the Bible warns against believing and practicing lies, and we should not believe the lie per
04:28se that voting is going to solve the problems of the nation.
04:32And here's something else from the same secular source from last year.
04:40The lesser of two evils, voters who decide 2024, and they're saying that they're afraid
04:49it's going to be the United States, the same two people the last time they ran, and it's
04:53the lesser of two evils.
04:56And many think that that's what they should do, is compromise that particular way.
05:02But they also said, get this, contrary to the popular snipe that, quote, only those
05:07who vote have a right to complain, common sense leads us to the opposite conclusion.
05:12It's only those who've not aggressed against others who have the right to complain when
05:16they're aggressed against.
05:19Those who, to invert a phrase, feed the mouth that bites them may stand firmly on ground.
05:28A vote for either is nevertheless a vote for evil.
05:31Okay, so basically what they're saying is you're enabling them by going through this
05:36whole process.
05:37Now, understand, in most nations, I want to read a list of eight items that's true about
05:45nearly all the candidates on their ballots.
05:49Number one, they don't strive to live according to faith once for all deliverance of the saints.
05:54Number two, they normally support aspects of sexual immorality in that agenda.
06:00Number three, they usually support increasing government debt, or they don't call for national
06:06repentance.
06:07Five, they don't encourage people to seek first the kingdom of God.
06:11Six, many have been accused of corruption.
06:14Seven, many have been accused of hypocrisy.
06:17And eight, most are covetous.
06:18Now, I'm not saying there's no differences, but the Bible says the hope of the hypocrite
06:24will perish in Job 8.
06:28And as far as voting goes, I saw something that Doug Casey wrote about it.
06:33He said, democracy is vastly overrated.
06:38Voting encourages politicians.
06:40Voting against one candidate is always interpreted as a vote for his opponent.
06:46And even though you might be voting for the lesser of two evils, the lesser of two evils
06:50is still evil.
06:51It amounts to giving a candidate a tacit mandate to impose his will on society.
06:57So many people come to the same conclusion, which is the lesser of two evils is still
07:01evil.
07:02Now, the Book of Daniel says the following, Daniel 4, verse 17.
07:09Innocent decisions by the decree of the watchers, nor the living may know that the most high
07:14rules in the kingdom of men gives it to whomever he wills and sets over it the lowest of men.
07:24In that verse, is God telling us here that no matter who we vote for, he will determine
07:30the outcome of the vote?
07:31Yes.
07:32Now, there's supposed to be elections in something like 50 or more countries in 2024.
07:37Now, as Christians, we know we're supposed to pray for our leaders and that God will
07:41decide who they should be.
07:42Now, I gave some reasons in a letter to the Brethren, to the Contending Church of God,
07:49about why we don't vote.
07:51But someone said, oh, there's scriptures that support voting.
07:55And so let me go through a couple of those that are claimed for this.
08:01Deuteronomy 1, verse 13, God says, choose wise, understanding, and knowledgeable men
08:07from among your tribes, and I will make them heads over you.
08:11Now, notice God had the children of Israel choose wise, understanding men from their
08:16tribes to make them leaders.
08:18Well, I don't think there's anybody in a ballot anywhere that's wise, understanding, and knowledgeable.
08:25And I would say few, even from the same tribes in places like the USA.
08:30Now, here's another one.
08:34Deuteronomy 17, starting with verse 14.
08:37It says, when you come to the land the Lord your God has given you, and you possess it,
08:42and dwell in it, and say, I'll set a king over me like the nations that are around me.
08:46Surely, you'll set a king whom the Lord your God chooses from one among your brethren.
08:51You'll set a king among you, you'll not set a foreigner over you who's not your brother.
08:59Those verses do seem to support his position on voting.
09:02Well, not really.
09:04There's three parts.
09:06First one is, it says that God will pick the king, if you'll notice.
09:10Second, the Bible shows, God said, when they asked for a king, that showed they were rejecting
09:16God.
09:17You can read that in 1 Samuel chapter 8.
09:20But also, the third part is God himself directly chose the first two kings of Israel, Saul
09:26and David.
09:27And that was not by an election of the people.
09:31Now, the Bible shows that Christians are supposed to be different than the world.
09:36First Peter 2, verse 9, says we are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,
09:44his own special people.
09:47We're supposed to proclaim the praises of him who called us out of darkness into his
09:51marvelous light.
09:53And Jesus said, in John 17, what could be called the Lord's Prayer, because Jesus is
10:01praying this.
10:02Jesus says, the Father, I've given them your word, the world has hated them because they're
10:06not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
10:10They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
10:13Brethren, we're not supposed to be part of this world or its politics.
10:18Okay, but going back to ancient Israel, choosing wise people and bringing it forward, what
10:25are some of the characteristics we should look for in leaders?
10:29Well, the Bible tells us that too.
10:31In Exodus chapter 18, it says, verse 21, you shall select from all the people able men,
10:40such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness, and place them over to be rulers of thousands,
10:48hundreds, fifties, and tens.
10:51So we don't see that people running for office, truly being men of truth who fear God and
10:57hate covetousness.
11:00And then 2 Samuel 23, verse three says, the rock of Israel spoke to me, he who rules over
11:09men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
11:15Well, few, if any, politicians truly endorse God's laws and his statutes or don't possess
11:21covetousness and rule in fear of the true God.
11:25So these aren't people that Christians should endorse.
11:29You know, the apostle Paul taught in 2 Corinthians that we're ambassadors for Christ, and ambassadors
11:37don't vote in the elections, and the Bible warns us that the world has been deceived
11:42by Satan, the devil, that we need to be separated from the world.
11:48We're encouraged in the Bible to listen to, pray for leaders and pay our taxes.
11:57But of course, if there's any conflict between the laws of men and God, as it says in Acts
12:03529, we ought to be God or must obey God rather than men.
12:08That said, we tell people who are compelled by their governments to force them to vote,
12:12that they can do so, not that their vote's going to help their nation, but just to avoid
12:16jail and punishment.
12:18Of course, many people who claim Christianity believe they have to vote, even though the
12:24concept's not endorsed in the Bible.
12:27But there are a couple of concepts that I want to read that clearly are.
12:30Isaiah 5, verse 20 says, woe to them who call evil good and good evil.
12:36And getting back to Exodus, Exodus 23, verse 2, you shall not follow a crowd to do evil.
12:44While the lesser of two evils is still evil, let's not follow a crowd to vote for evil.
12:50For a Christian, is there any alternative to voting?
12:54Yeah, we're supposed to look forward to the kingdom of God.
12:58In the book of Acts, chapter 5, starting verse 38, there was some discussion about what to
13:07do about the disciples.
13:09And the advice given was, if this is a work of men, it's going to come to nothing, verse
13:1539.
13:15But so God, you can't overthrow it.
13:18You don't want to be found fighting against God.
13:21Well, you can't overthrow God's plan.
13:24Yet those who vote in worldly elections seem to believe they know aspects of God's plan
13:31that they couldn't possibly know.
13:33Now, you might think that you're so wise, you can know all these types of things.
13:36Well, 1 Samuel 16, Samuel, who was called, who was a prophet and was appointed by God,
13:44thought he knew who would be the next king of Israel.
13:47Verse 6, Saul, Eliab, son of Jesse, sure the Lord's anointing is before him.
13:53God said, look, don't look at his appearance.
13:56I don't look at how people see people.
14:00I look at the heart.
14:03So it's possible that if we vote, even though we feel we are making the right choice, we
14:09are actually voting against God.
14:12Yes.
14:13You know, look, if the true prophet couldn't tell the difference, how are we supposed to
14:18know?
14:18And, you know, the Bible talks about the coming king of God.
14:21It's not going to be democracy.
14:23The father rules and Jesus underneath him.
14:26Jesus told the apostles they're going to be rulers over 12 tribes, not that they're going
14:30to be voted in.
14:33God chose people like David to be king over Israel.
14:38Democracy is not going to be the form of government in God's kingdom.
14:42Now, destruction is going to come to the United States as well as British descended allies.
14:46It's going to be worse than most people believe.
14:48And no matter who you vote for, that's not going to change it.
14:53Thank you, Dr. Thiel.
14:54For more interviews with Dr. Thiel, in addition to written as well as audio articles, visit
15:00our website at biblenewsprophecy.net.
15:03This is Steve Dupuis for the Bible News Prophecy Program.
15:12you