Reaction as Sunderland's 2024-25 Championship fixture list is revealed
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00:00Hello, welcome to the Raw podcast. It is fixture release day in the championship. I'm joined
00:26by Phil Smith. Phil, how are you doing, mate? Yeah, good, thank you. Always feels a bit
00:31more real, doesn't it, once the fixtures are out? It does. I have to ask, because I always
00:38see two camps on fixture release day. There's what I like to call the DARS, who'll say,
00:43well, you play everybody twice, so it doesn't really matter, which I can get on board with.
00:48But then there's also those that are quite excited and checking the fixtures for standout
00:59games and stuff like that. It is true, you do have to play everybody twice, but the timing
01:03of those fixtures can really matter. Yeah, I'm probably more to the you play everyone
01:09twice camp than the latter, but to be fair, it does matter, doesn't it? A coach can lose
01:16their job if they get a tough fixture list, and if a team has a really difficult starter
01:21fixture list, it can almost frame the season, really, in terms of the narrative and the
01:26feeling and the mood, potentially through no fault of your own, of course. So it definitely
01:32matters. I would disagree with anyone who says it doesn't matter at all, because I think,
01:36especially early stages of the season, we know that football can be an emotional place
01:41and sometimes quite impulsive decisions can be made earlier in the season. So if you do
01:45have a tough start to the season, I absolutely think it can be really important. But I am
01:52probably less than excited about the whole thing than maybe some people are. But I suppose
01:57as well, obviously, logistics and stuff, I guess, fixture list, it depends how many ways
02:02you do, depends how big of a part of your support and culture that is as well, because
02:08that obviously is very significant. But yeah, for me, it's always Boxing Day, New Year and
02:14working out my Christmas plans. That's always where my affairs goes.
02:18Yes, well, let's do that now. Let's run through some key fixtures. Sunderland start the season
02:23on August 10th against Cardiff City. Away from home, that'll be a half-twelfth kick-off
02:27on a Saturday due to Sky Sports, which is tricky, but we'll come into that. First home
02:33game of the season is Sheffield Wednesday, a week later on Saturday 17th. Middlesbrough
02:39at home is September, Saturday 21st. We play Leeds at home in October. Christmas period,
02:49Blackburn Rovers away on Boxing Day. Where are we? January 1st, first game of the New
02:58Year, Sheffield United at home. Middlesbrough away again. The reverse fixture to the home
03:04one is February the 1st, and then Sunderland finish the season with their last game away
03:11to Oxford on April 26th. And the last home game is May the 3rd. So lots of interest.
03:20I think, Phil, the key highlight to this season's fixture list is the sort of opening run of
03:29away days. Cardiff City away, 620-mile round trip, which is followed by Portsmouth away,
03:35679-mile round trip. Plymouth away is after that, 805-mile round trip, and then it's Watford away
03:41after that, which is a 522-mile round trip. Obviously, they're broken up by some home
03:46games as well, but it's quite the die-hard away sort of start to Sunderland's season.
03:53Yeah, I always prefer to get the longer journeys in either at the start or the end of the season
03:58when you're travelling a bit more by daylight and it's a bit warmer. Having said that, I don't think
04:05I would have wanted quite that many in quite a short period. Although I think, to be fair,
04:10I think that's kind of partially the fixture list. We were actually chatting about this when
04:14sort of the relegation and the promotion spots from the Championship and League One were settled,
04:19that this was going to be a very, very travelly season for everybody. I definitely don't think
04:24Sunderland will see it as ideal to have that many long, long journeys in the opening stages of the
04:30season. I think it will take its toll a little bit on the players. At the moment, it doesn't
04:35look as daunting because there's a week between all the fixtures, but obviously we'll have the
04:38first round of the Carabao Cup draw tomorrow. If Sunderland progress in that competition,
04:43you've potentially thrown another two or three away games in there, possibly depending on the
04:49draw. Obviously, it's regionalised, but you can still have some fairly lengthy journeys.
04:53I've got slightly mixed feelings on that one. I don't think it's ideal from a football perspective,
04:56but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to have a couple of those journeys
05:00before you get into the long winter nights. I have to say, I think Cardiff away is a great
05:06way to start the season. For me, it's one of my favourite away trips. Obviously,
05:10it's a good ground, it's a fantastic city. I think that's a good way to start the season,
05:16and one where we've got fairly happy memories. Sunderland have won twice out of the last two
05:19games, haven't they? They've won earlier this season and they've won, I think,
05:22Denis Sirk in the season before, after Pritchard's three-kick maybe bounced off the post.
05:27So, yes, it's been a happy hunting ground of late, although I'm still slightly scarred,
05:33I think, by the four-nil under Chris Coleman who entered the game and Don got sent off. But
05:38we do have some more positive recent memories, which is good. So, I think that's a
05:42delver of a fixture at the start of the season and hopefully something can get off on the front foot.
05:48Yeah, it's Cardiff at home where the problems tend to lie for Sunderland, isn't it?
05:52Yeah, it's true, yeah.
05:55Which comes on Saturday, March 8th, if anybody's looking out for that one. I've got family in
05:59Cardiff, so those two fixtures are always well talked about. Within my circle, in terms of
06:07Sunderland's start of the season, you touched on it there, Phil, with Cardiff City away from home
06:11being a decent fixture. The month of August, in terms of Regis Lebrie, the new Sunderland head
06:17coach, it's not that bad of a start, is it? Cardiff City away, Sheffield Wednesday at home. Obviously,
06:22we know that they're probably going to be a quality outfit under Danny Rowe. You've then
06:28got Burnley at home. Obviously, they've got Premier League parachute money and a very,
06:32very good squad, a lot of which they look like they're going to retain. And then it's Portsmouth
06:36away, which could be a tricky fixture, but they're coming up from League One. The caveat is that it's
06:42really difficult to predict how all of these teams are going to look and Sunderland are going to look
06:46come these fixtures being played. The transfer window will still be open during that first month
06:52as well. But I looked at it and thought, well, it could be a lot worse in terms of who Sunderland
06:57could have played. I look at Portsmouth's opening fixtures and I think they've got us, Leeds,
07:02Luton and Middlesbrough, which for a newly promoted club is tough. So, I thought on paper
07:07that didn't look too bad in terms of residue slivery. Yeah, I think it's a decent start. I
07:13think, as you say, you look at the positions where they finished last season and that tells you that
07:18it's a relatively kind start. You've got one team sort of coming down from the Premier League,
07:23but none of those other teams in the first five fixtures, if we go to Plymouth in September,
07:29obviously finished in the top six last year. So, that tells you that it's a relatively gentle
07:34start. And even looking beyond that, Middlesbrough and Watford and then Derby to sort of take you
07:39into October, they're not teams who had good season last time out. So, it's clearly not a bad
07:44start. I think there's some big caveats within that. Portsmouth away will be really tricky,
07:49even if... It always is for Sunderland.
07:52It always is for any club at Fratton Park. To get three points is going to be difficult.
07:58I would be stunned if Portsmouth got relegated this season. I don't expect them to do an
08:01Ipswich, but I don't expect them to get relegated. And I expect that because they have a strong home
08:06record. I think that would be a fairly tricky game. As you mentioned, Sheffield Wednesday,
08:10I think, will be better than last season because I think with a full pre-season as well and some
08:15recruitment and given what we've seen from Danny Rowe, I expect them to be very competitive.
08:20Again, do I expect them to be top six? Probably not. So, you know, in Middlesbrough, I think
08:26everyone expects Middlesbrough to challenge last year. I think if they had not been for
08:29that awful start in the season last year, they would have been in the playoffs. And,
08:33you know, there's every reason to think they'll have a decent year.
08:37And on the flip side, Burnley, you know, as you say, I'm sure they'll have a good team,
08:40but there's a lot of uncertainty there, isn't there? And maybe it won't be so bad to catch
08:43them sort of early in the season rather than later when maybe things will transition a bit.
08:47So, I do think there's a few sort of deceptively tricky fixtures in there, as I've just outlined.
08:52But if Sunderland are wanting to be a playoff team next year, and that obviously is the
08:57expectation, then it's definitely games that they should be feeling confident and optimistic about.
09:03And as you say, I think there's half a chance for Rajeev Libri to hit the ground running.
09:10No, absolutely. We'll talk a little bit about Sky TV's new deal with the AFL and
09:16fixtureless schedules in a second. But I wanted to ask you, Phil, what are your favourite away
09:22days across the season? Obviously, we've both got sort of family ties and history yourself in
09:28Cardiff and South Wales. I like Swansea as well. Middlesbrough away is, you know, a good atmosphere.
09:33But what are the grounds that you enjoy going to? Leeds United, for me, was one last year that I
09:38really enjoyed. I loved the road, it was a good atmosphere. Yeah, I love, I think Leeds is a
09:44fantastic atmosphere. It's a great place to go. My two favourite trips are Cardiff and Swansea by
09:50quite a long distance. And actually, to be honest, that's not just because I sort of, I lived in
09:54Cardiff for a while. I think it's just a great part of the world. And although the journeys are a bit
09:59of a nightmare, when you get there, it's just too fantastic. Swansea in particular is absolutely
10:04beautiful. You've got, you know, the beach is gorgeous. There's some outstanding record shops
10:08in Swansea and Cardiff as well, which I like to reach around. So I always, they're always sort of
10:13my two favourite ones. But to be honest, I think a lot of the, a lot of the longer journeys actually
10:18can be quite good once you get there. Norwich is another lovely place and a good ground.
10:22Actually, you always get a really good atmosphere at Norwich and some of them tend to do all right.
10:26I think they lost last year, didn't they? But they've had a couple of good results there as well.
10:29So, because Swansea is always my favourite, you know, once you get the journey out the way.
10:35But yeah, so I'll be looking forward to that one. Like I say, Cardiff, that's a
10:39belting way to get back to it. Oxford is one that I, the ground is a nightmare, but it tends to be
10:46quite a good trip because there's so many good pubs and stuff. So yeah, I'm quite looking forward
10:52to having that one back. And from memory, Derby's a great ground. So I have very happy memories of
10:59someone, did they win 3-1 or 4-1 in the Championship relegation season?
11:03So Ashley Fletcher scored, didn't he?
11:06John O'Shea also scored, which is one of the reasons why that is such a vivid memory because
11:10that does not happen very often. And for a brief moment, we thought that someone maybe would attend
11:15a corner, which proved not to be the case when they were hammered home by Sheffield Wednesday
11:19two days late. But yeah, Derby will be a good one. I imagine Sunderland will take a good crowd down
11:24there and it'll be a good atmosphere. So there's loads to be very, I don't know, maybe it's just
11:29the foolish optimism because we actually have a head coach now, but I'm starting to look forward
11:34to getting back to it all again.
11:37Yeah, Concur on Swansea, it's a great place. I did three years at uni there and had a blast.
11:43Blackburn Rovers away on Boxing Day, hopefully get a good allocation for that. I imagine that'll
11:47be a cracking atmosphere as usual. On the flip side, Phil, are there any fixtures that you look
11:54at and just think, oh no, just giving the time and other players, I mean, without disrespecting
11:59any EFL football clubs and incurring the wrath of any fan base, but are there any places that
12:04you're just not bothered about travelling to? Coventry City maybe, I did away as a fan last
12:09season and a bit of a nightmare to get to, the ground's not really near anything.
12:14Yeah, I think that there's a couple. The away games I always enjoy the least are the
12:21midweek ones, to be honest. Because of the Championship, I love a night game at the
12:26Stadium of Light. I think that's just a fantastic bonus to your week. But the away games, I think,
12:31especially because the Championship schedule is so relentless, the midweek games can often be a
12:35bit of a worse tempo. And sometimes those trips can feel like a bit of a slog, you know,
12:40when you drive and then you're coming back during the night. So if there's any like
12:45North West midweek games, they're sort of the ones that always feel like a bit of a challenge.
12:50But actually looking at the fixture list, to be honest, we haven't got many of those,
12:54because as you mentioned, Blackburn away is on Boxing Day, which it's not always a brilliant
13:01atmosphere at that ground. But actually, I think there'll be a huge sum and allocation there for
13:04Boxing Day, so that might be quite a good event. My eye is drawn to Stoke away on Sunday, the 29th
13:10of December, between Christmas and New Year. That's a killer, isn't it? I mean, bloody hell. That does not
13:16feel very Christmassy to me. And that is no shade on Stoke, by the way, but that is not Christmassy.
13:21So that one's jumping out. And also... I bet there'll be a huge allocation on Stoke City,
13:25though, for Sunderland. I reckon, you know, that little in-between period after Christmas
13:29out and Sunderland will take a fair following down there, as they always do. But I can imagine
13:33in terms of the away crowd, that'll be actually quite a good one for Sunderland. Yeah, it will,
13:38yeah. I'm looking here, I can see Luton Town away on a Wednesday night. That is exactly the kind of
13:44trip I was referring to earlier. It's just a bit like... that one might be quite a hard going.
13:49In fair play at Luton, it's not a nice place to go because of the way they play and the atmosphere
13:54they generate. They make it a very tiring experience to their credit, and that's why
13:59they got promoted to the Premier League. But that one leaps off the pages. Yeah, I might pull my
14:05hamstring and do it before that one. And somebody has to do that. Yeah, let's talk a little bit
14:13about TV coverage and Sky. Obviously, the money is pouring into the Championship, not to the same
14:18extent as the Premier League, but obviously the broadcast rights do help Championship clubs. It
14:24should be said as well that Sunderland are usually picked quite heavily by the broadcasters as well,
14:28so that benefits Sunderland financially. We've written breakdowns of that on the website before.
14:34The flip side to that though, Phil, is that fans do suffer. I mean, Cardiff away, first game of
14:38the season. Yes, we're quite happy with that because we like Cardiff, but it is 12 o'clock
14:43Saturday, a long trip. That's not ideal. And I've just read as well, there's actually no 3pm
14:49kickoffs on the opening day of the Championship, which seems bizarre. And I think we are maybe a
14:54little bit in danger of tinkering with football too much. And for a long time, it has felt like
14:59fans have been left behind. I know there's an agreement in the sort of new deal that fans will
15:05be given a lot more notice, which is good in a way, but you're getting a lot
15:13more notice, which is fine, but the games are changing more often, which isn't so good. So,
15:17it's very much a double-edged sword, in my opinion. Yes, and listen, I'm inclined to agree
15:22with you. I feel a bit funny about there being so much football on TV, about the inconvenience to
15:28match-going fans that that does. It was an interesting one because initially when Sky
15:35Sports was coming towards the end of their current deal, there was a lot of talk about an even more
15:40radical change whereby pretty much every game in the Championship would be streamed live. There
15:45was talk of getting rid of the 3pm blackout on Saturday entirely. And this deal with Sky
15:52almost is a little bit of a halfway house, I think, where there's going to be a huge surge
15:56of games on television. There's going to be a lot of games in blocks at, say, Saturday lunchtime,
16:01Friday night, and some Saturday tea time as well, I think. And what they've done to try and offset
16:10that is they have made this pledge that they will release the games far earlier for supporters. But
16:15I'm quite old-fashioned with it. I like the tradition of loads of games at three o'clock.
16:20I don't necessarily, sometimes I think less is more, and I don't think we need to have
16:25everything streamed all of the time. But I think there's a couple of things that I think are
16:32important about the deal is that because they're basically going to show the vast majority of teams
16:37the same amount of time. So what we shouldn't have moving forward is a situation that we've had in
16:42recent years where one, a couple of clubs, for example, Sunderland being one that I think leads
16:45in the most high-profile example, who are constantly getting moved for telly. And then
16:49some other clubs where their games are never getting moved, which is great for their fans,
16:54but not so great for the club because they're not getting any TV money that other clubs get.
16:58So a lot of these changes are to kind of offset that imbalance, if you like, and that unfairness.
17:03But yeah, I think it's a very, it's something that we mess with a little bit at our peril,
17:09to be honest. And I do increasingly fear that Mashcombe fans are deemed
17:13less and less important. And the big risk with that is, of course, is one of the reasons why
17:18people love watching English football and Scottish football is because of the fan culture.
17:23And so when you make it harder and harder for people to get to games and increase their
17:28inconvenience, you take a huge risk. What I would say is that this deal, you know,
17:32is financially gives a lot more certainty to EFL clubs. And in the current climate,
17:37that's absolutely not to be sniffed at. And it will be a fairly significant
17:42earner for Sunderland. There's a piece on the website, isn't there, this morning, James,
17:47in which I break down some of those financial figures and some of the sort of intricacies
17:51of the deal a bit more as well. So if anyone's interested, then you can go and check it out.
17:55It's on my Twitter feed as well. No, that was a lovely plug, Phil.
17:59Very smooth, very smooth. I was pleased with that one.
18:03What are your thoughts on the 3pm blackout? Because I'm like you, very old fashioned in
18:07a sense that I would like to see football played at 3pm on a Saturday as far as possible.
18:13But in a weird way, I think if the direction of travel is streaming and getting more money
18:17into the championship, which is understandable, I think, you know, we live in that culture now,
18:22the modern world's heading that way, that maybe the 3pm blackout does need to go at some point.
18:26I understand completely why it was initiated all those years ago to protect attendances.
18:31But we may be at a point now where football is such a globalised industry that
18:37the attendances would likely hold up. I mean, there might be some small drop offs, but
18:41I think generally, if the 3pm blackout went and those games were streamed, I couldn't really
18:45envisage it declining that much. But I could be wrong on that.
18:50No, well, it definitely wouldn't in the short term, because I think you've got people,
18:53the vast majority of people now who have season tickets or go regularly to games.
18:58You know, it's not going to change overnight if the blackout goes, does it? But I suppose
19:04it's more of a long term thing where you start to have generations of football fans who,
19:10you know, are used to being able to watch football on the telly pretty much all of the time.
19:16You know, will there be a longer term impact where it stops being so culturally resonant
19:22that go into the game because it's so much easier to stay at home and do it? So in some ways,
19:27I think it is a bit of a throwback, but I actually think that, you know, anything that preserves
19:33some elements of traditions and actually, you know, Saturday 3pm is probably still the most
19:39convenient slot for the vast majority of fans. And I do think that's really important that
19:43I do think that a large number of games for each club should still happen at Saturday 3pm,
19:49because I think that's the best thing for supporters. So I actually probably am just
19:55about in favour of it if the 3pm blackout, I think. But I obviously grew up in the Saturday
20:01generation, you know, we used to love it, just all the scores flying in at different times and stuff
20:06and used to not necessarily having to see all the games and being quite happy to wait for,
20:11you know, when you're in the Premier League, wait for match of the day on a Saturday night.
20:14But if there's any younger listeners listening, they may think that sounds absolutely
20:19ridiculous. So I can see both sides of it. I do feel old when I say this, Phil, and I think,
20:25you know, reading between the lines, you might sort of share my feelings, but
20:30when the season's in full swing, a football season, I do sometimes feel like we're bombarded
20:35with football. I feel like there's too much. Obviously, there's Monday night football,
20:39Premier League, you've got Championship midweek games, Premier League midweek games,
20:42games on Friday. Sometimes there's European football on the television. No, you don't
20:46have to watch it. You're not obliged. And I'm aware that there's a massive audience, but sometimes,
20:51and maybe it's the nature of our job as well, that I just feel really fatigued sometimes. This is
20:55getting really negative. Obviously, we're in the midst of the European Championships, which I'm
20:59actually really enjoying and watching the daily games. But sometimes come, you know, February,
21:04I'm knackered when it comes to football. Yeah, I think it's definitely a risk of saturation,
21:10isn't it? And the danger then is that, you know, all these incredibly expensive TV deals, if people
21:15do start becoming a bit fatigued, then, you know, there is a risk to the value of those deals,
21:20isn't there? So I'm definitely with you. I think sometimes I think less is a little bit more.
21:28But, you know, I do think there will be a time in our lifetimes where pretty much every game
21:34is streamed, you know, simultaneously and across all the divisions. I think that is probably
21:39the way it's going in the long term, isn't it? But so I think a lot of a part of this deal is
21:43to try and almost, like you say, find, as I said before, find kind of a happy medium between,
21:49you know, trying to adapt to the modern world where people, you know, understandably expect
21:56to be able to have everything at their fingertips, and also try and preserve some of that more
22:01tradition, and above all else, try and protect the match going forward. And I have to say,
22:06like, it's incredibly important that the pledge that's being made to put these fixtures out in
22:10advance is that have been moved is incredibly important, because if there's more and more,
22:16more, more games, and it is a huge number of games that can be moved, if that's happening
22:21in a couple of weeks notice, which, you know, Sky and the NFL pledge won't happen, but if that does
22:25happen, it's going to be a complete, complete nightmare, especially for fans who spend a lot
22:29of money going to away games. So I think it kind of rests and falls if they're good to that pledge,
22:36which is, I think it's something like every TV fixture up until, I think it's the third round
22:41of the FA Cup being announced before the season starts, then I think that's potentially a really
22:46positive move. If that doesn't happen, it could be absolute chaos. I think there'll be significant
22:51sort of kickback to this deal. Shall we have a five-minute chat about transfers before we end
22:57the podcast, Phil? Nathan Bishop, he's departed season-long loan to Wickham Wanderers. I believe
23:03they held an interest in signing him from Manchester United before Sunderland did.
23:07One of those where it just seems to make sense, Phil, with the arrival of Simon Newer probably
23:11suggests that Anthony Patterson isn't expected to go anywhere despite interest. Yeah, I mean,
23:18good luck trying to find something to say about it, because it's pretty straightforward, isn't it?
23:22Yeah, I think so. It's a really difficult position to fill, isn't it? Like the Invert
23:27Commons backup goalkeeper. And I think that what we've seen, you know, we've kind of seen it in the
23:32last couple of years, haven't we, whereby Alex Bass was Patterson's understudy for a year and then
23:38wanted to go and play and Sunderland have to facilitate that because it's the right thing
23:42for the player. So he goes on loan and Bishop comes in and then Bass has made a permanent move
23:47this summer, which Sunderland have got a bit of money from. It could well be the case that the
23:51same thing happens with Bishop next summer, whereby he'll be in the last year of his deal
23:54if Sunderland don't think he's ready to kick on and be in the team. Hopefully he's had a good
23:58season on loan and played loads of football and what happens then is you have transfer interest
24:01and you can get a bit of feedback and, you know, Bishop can kind of move on with his career.
24:07I think that it's an interesting one. I suppose the question thrown forward is whether
24:13will Sunderland be happy with Patterson more and then a young goalkeeper stepping up
24:18on matchdays, depending on who's on loan at the time, who's going to be in the U21s team.
24:23There's obviously loads of very talented young goalkeepers at the club because the question
24:28would then be if Patterson outside of a transfer window got a serious injury,
24:31will he therefore be happy with more, who's barely played any football in certainly the last season
24:37and then potentially a young kid who might not have very much senior experience at all.
24:42That's probably where the interesting conversation is, is do Sunderland need to go out and recruit
24:47another goalkeeper or are they fairly happy? Because obviously at face value, no they don't,
24:51because if, as we expect, Patterson stays, then he'll play every game, that's not a problem.
24:56But if he gets an injury outside of a transfer window, then you risk him being a little bit
25:01vulnerable. But that's an incredibly difficult balance because how many goalkeepers can you
25:06realistically carry knowing they're not going to play. So it'll be interesting to see how that
25:09gets resolved. I don't think there'll be anything changing soon, I don't know what you think,
25:12but I think the obvious thing to me is that Matty Young, after a really good loan at Darlington,
25:17and then Richardson as well, I would be wanting them to train pretty much all the way through
25:21pre-season. I'd want them to be playing in pre-season games to get more experience,
25:25I'd want them going on the pre-season camp because I think that would be a great experience for them
25:29and I'd be looking to loan them out before the AFL slash National League season starts. So I think
25:34this to me feels like the initial sort of reshuffle has been completed, if you like,
25:38and I think this will be what we have going into the start of pre-season. But it'll be
25:42interesting to see whether anything changes sort of right towards the back end of the window.
25:47Yeah, it is. We've discussed this quite a lot, haven't we, Phil? But as you say, I think Matty
25:50Young will go out on loan, probably to League too. I think that's really interesting, which club he'll
25:55go to, because obviously they're going to want him to play, but I think they'll want him to play
25:58sort of the right type of football as well, if that makes sense. Adam Richardson, we know they
26:03were looking at a loan for him towards the back end of the season, but he did pick up a badly
26:07timed injury. And then, of course, he was starting for Sunderland as their play-off campaign got
26:14underway in the under-21s, so he was first choice. I could see sort of Young going out on loan before
26:19the window ended, and then I could see Richardson maybe staying and then going out on loan to the
26:24National League after the transfer deadline. And then, yeah, I think either Richardson or Kelechi
26:30stepping up to match their squads, which Kelechi did last season, actually, a couple of times.
26:36But, yeah, Dan Cameron as well is floating around. Obviously, he's moving up an age group.
26:40So, yeah, interesting times. Josh Murphy, Phil, Sunderland linked. He's got a Portsmouth.
26:46Good signing for them, I think. Yeah, good sign for them. Obviously, Sunderland are going to get
26:51linked with a lot of left wingers this summer, for one obvious Jack Clarke-shaped reason.
26:59I don't expect Sunderland to sign any wingers, certainly not a left winger, until Clarke goes,
27:04because if Clarke didn't go for whatever reason, then you've really got a huge bottleneck then,
27:10because you'll have Clarke, who is obviously going to be in the team. You've just signed
27:14somebody, and you've also got Romain Mundel, who I know he can play off the right, but
27:18potentially Rooson, who is a striker, but who can play out wide, do you know what I mean?
27:22So, all of a sudden, if you put another one in the squad, and then the interest in Clarke
27:26doesn't materialise, or nobody meets your asking price, and I remember he still has got two years
27:31left. So, while we all think the sale probably is likely this summer, you know, Sunderland don't
27:35have to sell if they don't get a very good bid. So, I'd be amazed if they signed Josh Murphy,
27:40Liam Miller, any of these names that you get sort of ceiling. I'd be really surprised if
27:44they did that before Clarke went, because although I do expect them to go, it's far from resolved,
27:50and I'd be surprised if Sunderland were looking to add more numbers in that position, because
27:53I haven't even mentioned Jefferson Bennett there either. So, it's actually a position where we
27:59might have question marks over a lot of players, but there's quite a lot of numbers to carry going
28:02into pre-season, and I think it would be very risky to add more numbers in there before you
28:06have anyone going out, whether it be on loan or a permanent deal. So, definitely a good signing,
28:12good signing for Portsmouth, because I think he was unbelievable finishing the season at Oxford,
28:15but I would have been stunned if Sunderland moved then, while Clarke's future is still up in the air.
28:22Just to round the podcast off, Phil, I think it's interesting, and we won't go through
28:27every sort of transfer story individually today, we'll save that for maybe another podcast,
28:32but the reports coming out, the one consistent line I think with Anthony Patterson, Jack Clarke
28:38and Joe Bellingham as well, the three players have been linked with moves away from Sunderland,
28:43is that Sunderland are actually commanding pretty meaty fees, and they're going into the market to
28:48get as much as possible. I mean, there's reports that Sunderland will want 25 to 30 million for
28:53Clarke, there's reports that Crystal Palace perhaps have been priced out of a move for
28:57Joe Bellingham and they're going to maybe give it a season before coming back in. Anthony Patterson,
29:02they know the value of him really highly as well in terms of fee, and I think that's promising,
29:08because twofold it means that Sunderland are getting the best possible deal for their assets,
29:13and secondly as well, they're really protected by the contract situations, which we've spoken
29:20about on this podcast quite a bit. Yes, there's interest in Sunderland's players, but in terms of
29:25the three I've mentioned, they're actually in relatively good positions. Yeah, I think there's
29:30a couple of aspects to it, one sort of not so positive and one very positive. I suppose the
29:35not so positive is that a lot of these cases, certainly Clarke and Bellingham who you've
29:39mentioned there, there will be fairly significant sell-on clauses, so you've got to remember that
29:44whatever the top sort of number that a club eventually hits, some of that money will be
29:49going to the club where those players came from. In Clarke's case it's particularly significant,
29:54that was obviously a brilliant deal for Sunderland at the time to sign him permanently from Spurs,
29:59and look how well that's worked out, but Spurs just didn't give him away for free,
30:03they've obviously protected him against him sort of realising his talents. That's obviously one
30:07factor in it. I imagine it's fairly similar with Bellingham, albeit maybe not to quite the same
30:11extent in Birmingham City, so that's one thing you've got to bear in mind. But as you said,
30:16I think you could have a huge amount of discussion, debate, constructive criticism around a lot of
30:23things that have happened from a footballing perspective in the last couple of years. We've
30:26talked about strikers, have they pushed the lack of experience too far, not replacing Corey Evans,
30:33we can have all these discussions, but I think one thing you have to say that's been almost
30:36overwhelmingly positive since the new regime came in, since Christian Spinkman came in,
30:41is that the contract management has been very, very proactive, and there's only been one case
30:45so far where a player, which is obviously Ross Stewart, a big asset went into the last year of
30:51his deal without a resolution, and even then, Sunderland got a pretty good fee for him. So,
30:56I think you have to say that whatever you think about the current regime, they've been fairly
30:59consistent in saying it's not about selling players at the first opportunity, it's not about
31:03bringing in huge profits on young players the second a big comes in. They've actually rejected
31:09the vast majority of offers that have come in in these last few windows, and they've been
31:16held fairly true to their statement that we want to grow these players and get to the Premier League
31:20with them rather than sell them. But obviously, there are certain situations where it makes more
31:26sense because of what's happening with their contracts and stuff to cash in. I suspect Clark
31:30may be at a situation this summer, we'll obviously have to wait and see in that, but I've said it,
31:35I think I've said it a couple of times on this part, I don't expect a large number of sales
31:39this summer. It's never happened yet, and I don't see any reason why it would suddenly start
31:43happening now. As I said loads of times, I think Clark might be the one who would make sense this
31:49summer because he can potentially get a huge fee, but I'm not envisaging a large number of players
31:54leaving. There's no precedent for it, and I don't think there's any reason why it has to happen
31:57because of that contract management. No, absolutely. Yeah, cheers for joining us,
32:03Phil, 32 minutes into the RAW podcast there on Championship fixtures. For the full fixture list,
32:08you can see it on social media, it's on our website as well. Phil mentioned his piece on
32:15the EFL TV deal. We'll have all transfer stuff as well. Phil, have you got anything in the pipeline
32:20today, putting you on the spot that you'd like to plug before we go? We'll be doing a bit of
32:25fixture analysis later, looking at those first few teams as we talk about whether it's a good
32:29time to play them or not. Keep an eye out for that, and then we'll see what else is in store.
32:37Absolutely, thanks to those who tuned in. This podcast will be available on all podcast places
32:42and on Shots TV on 3vue shortly after, and thank you very much for joining us.