The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor joins the Garden Report to react to the Celtics Game 4 loss to the Mavs in the NBA finals.
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00:07Hey, Bobby Manning here.
00:09Welcome to a late night edition of The Garden Report.
00:12We thought there might be some champagne popping.
00:14There might be some balloons somewhere in the building,
00:17because there were a lot of Celtics fans here tonight.
00:20But the opposite of a celebration.
00:22They were flying out of this building.
00:24I won't call it mourning, but it was pretty bad,
00:29the effort here tonight.
00:30So many Celtics fans.
00:31They go down by 33, third quarter.
00:34I mean, Kevin O'Connor here from The Ringer,
00:36Joseph Pavone, CLNS Media.
00:39If I told you, Kevin, that Shfima High Luke, Luke
00:41Cornett, those guys were slowing into the game,
00:44you probably would have thought it was the other way, right?
00:45That they were coming in for the end of the fourth.
00:47I would think it was like game six, 2008,
00:50where it's like there's a Gatorade parade,
00:52you know, like celebration on Dock Rivers back in 08.
00:55I thought Missoula would have Gatorade poured on them
00:57by Tatum or whatever.
00:58I didn't think about that, KLC.
00:59They should redo that.
01:00I know.
01:02Well, they got to win the game first.
01:03They got to win one more.
01:04And I mean, ultimately, though, I
01:07think the fact that it was the way it was,
01:08where at one point, the Mavericks had the biggest
01:10lead in finals history, nobody could
01:12have saw this coming in the way that it did.
01:15Like, the Mavericks were just absolutely dominant
01:17in every single facet of the game.
01:19Like, they dominated the boards.
01:21They don't have over 50 rebounds.
01:22I can't believe how different this game felt.
01:26Even stuff like Lively taking a corner three,
01:29I mean, I felt like the Mavericks pulled out
01:32like different cards.
01:32They changed up their rotation.
01:34They were playing at a different level.
01:36And I mean, even though it's just one game,
01:39I mean, it feels like it's not over.
01:41I mean, he had a 5-0 run for screaming out loud.
01:43And the crowd, you know, the rah-rah moments,
01:45like all that stuff, I thought, was a huge momentum
01:48builder for the Warriors, I mean, for the Mavericks.
01:51Oh, you getting nightmares over there?
01:53No, no, you know what it is?
01:54I'm thinking about the, when we were talking
01:55about the winning streak, and if they were able to pull
01:57this one off, you know, the way the Mavericks ended things,
01:59I mean, the way the Warriors did back in, you know,
02:02a few years ago, whatever.
02:03So I guess I still have that in my head.
02:04But no, like, I just think everyone
02:06doing a little bit of their part, I thought,
02:09made a humongous difference for the Mavericks.
02:11And with the Celtics, I just think their offense just
02:13wasn't clicking, the passing and everything that we saw.
02:16But let me ask you this, KLC.
02:18Is this a matter of, not to just boil it down to this,
02:20but was it a matter of the Celtics
02:22were just ready to celebrate, and the Mavericks
02:24were ready to fight?
02:25Well, I mean, I think Jason Kidd, after the game,
02:28he did say, like, the Celtics were ready to celebrate,
02:30and we were desperate.
02:32We have to play, like, a desperate team again on Monday.
02:34Exactly.
02:35I think that was an element of it,
02:37because after game three, like, you got Jalen Brown talking
02:42about, oh, when Danny Ainge asked me about Jason,
02:46and when we were drafted years ago together.
02:48Yeah, I asked that question.
02:49I mean, like, you know what he should have said to you, Bobby?
02:52We got to win one more game.
02:53Come on, I got a good answer.
02:54You got a great answer.
02:56Because you know what, I bet you he was showing those clips
02:58after the plays, after they were dissecting the game
03:00throughout that thorough film session that they had,
03:02that, you know, they didn't have to go out here and practice.
03:04They just went back to the basics.
03:06I bet you they put a couple of those clips up from Jalen
03:08and Tatum and these guys already talking
03:12about their entire NBA careers as if this series
03:14was completely over.
03:15You blew it, Bobby.
03:16I was writing my Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum championship story
03:19before starting.
03:20Well, Tatum didn't fall for it, though.
03:21Remember, you asked the same question to Tatum.
03:23Tatum was just like, hey, you know, the job's not done.
03:25But Jalen, yeah, he was reminiscent.
03:27But to me, like, the little things like that,
03:29like, so often we've seen this Boston team over the years.
03:31I know they say we're different now, and they are different now.
03:34Because they would have lost game three
03:35if they weren't different now.
03:37They would have let go of the rope in the first quarter.
03:39They would have blown the lead in the fourth quarter
03:41in game three if they weren't different now.
03:43They would have lost game three if they weren't different now.
03:45They are grown up.
03:46They're a better team now.
03:48That's obvious.
03:49That's why they're up 3-1 in the finals
03:50and why they're probably going to win
03:51the whole damn thing, obviously.
03:53But at the same time, they have had those games
03:57throughout the playoffs where they just, for whatever reason,
04:00don't put forth the effort.
04:01Because they have a lead.
04:02Sometimes they do let up.
04:03And so I think that's what happened again tonight
04:06in game four.
04:07And I think they're going to respond in game five.
04:09But just because you respond, it doesn't
04:11mean that you're going to win.
04:13Because Dallas did figure some things out.
04:15They figured some things out tonight.
04:16Luka hasn't had his 50-point dominant game, so I mean.
04:21But Boston also hasn't had their, oh, we shot 48% on 40.
04:2523-pointers and all that.
04:26Right, like they haven't had that game, too.
04:28Boston's going to respond, but are they going to win?
04:30Are we going to be back here next Thursday?
04:32I don't know the answer to that.
04:33But it did feel like Boston did kind of get ahead
04:35of themselves a bit.
04:36And it's only in the human nature, I think.
04:38So what matters most out of the things we saw here tonight?
04:40We saw Luka get going.
04:42He had his Luka game.
04:43We saw Dallas dominate the boards.
04:45And we saw pretty much every Dallas role guy get going here.
04:48I guess you could group in their efforts on Jalen and Jason
04:51into that, too.
04:52But on that Dallas side, Luka, the rebounding,
04:55the role guys across the board getting going.
04:58What should concern the Celtics most?
04:59I mean, to me, I think it's exactly that, Bobby.
05:01It's the role guys getting going.
05:03We're like, even in garbage time,
05:04you have Tim Hardaway Jr.
05:06Yo, that's relevant now.
05:08I'm telling you, you don't think he's going to hit at least
05:10two threes in game five?
05:11I mean, he's been horrible for months.
05:14But he just made his first three-pointer since May 19th
05:17or whatever the heck it was.
05:18Like, that's huge, man.
05:19Shooters are going to shoot.
05:20Even Tim Hardaway, a guy that Mavericks fans should
05:23be cut after game three, I mean, the fact
05:26even he was having a good performance,
05:28like, it felt like the Mavericks role players,
05:30again, just one game.
05:32Just one game.
05:33But the fact that they got going,
05:35got a little bit more comfortable,
05:36they were flying around on defense, lively.
05:39Can't underrate that corner three.
05:41Remember many years ago when the Heat against the Celtics
05:43put Chris Bosh in the corner?
05:45And suddenly, this combobulated so much
05:47of what Boston wanted to do against that Heat defense.
05:50And not that that alone is going to win one three-pointer.
05:53That's all he hit.
05:54He only took the one.
05:55But little things like that, it felt like Dallas,
05:59the way they crashed the boards, the fact
06:01they inserted Exum into the rotation,
06:03and that energy and flow he provided with his ball
06:06handling, Dallas figured some things out.
06:08But now it's on Boston to respond.
06:10And Missoula has improved so much as a coach in a year.
06:13And he's made those adjustments over the playoffs
06:16and over the season.
06:18So I mean, I think this is the moment where, like,
06:21it's better to win at home.
06:22It's sweeter to win at home.
06:23They should take care of business on Monday at home.
06:26But we'll see if the series has shifted or not.
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06:56Kristaps Porzingis did not play tonight.
06:57He was active.
06:59Joe Missoula said before the game
07:00that they'd use him in special circumstances if needed.
07:04It was kind of a weird explanation.
07:05It's celebratory.
07:06I love Vaughn Temp's following up.
07:08Like, what do you mean by that?
07:09He just gave the same exact answer.
07:12I think he meant possibly an ATO at the end of the quarter.
07:17That was my first thought.
07:18And my second thought is victory cigar.
07:21Last 10 seconds of the fourth quarter, you follow him.
07:23He's the guy who throws the ball in the air.
07:25That's what I was thinking it was.
07:26It seems like we're not going to see him
07:28in any actual capacity the rest of the series
07:31if he couldn't go tonight.
07:33I don't know.
07:34Maybe he does improve as the series goes on.
07:36But we know this is an injury that
07:38could potentially need surgeries.
07:39I just I'm not counting on it.
07:41What a weird injury.
07:43Like, you watch him pregame warm-ups.
07:44He looks OK moving around.
07:46But at the end of game two, like, he, I don't know.
07:49He just, like, something was definitely off.
07:50And then we learned about the injury.
07:52I'm not convinced that he's going to be an additive
07:55presence if he plays, because you're
07:57going to have Dallas go at him possession after possession.
08:02But maybe, like, just because you go at a guy
08:05doesn't mean that that guy gets hurt.
08:06And it doesn't mean that the team scores.
08:09So, like, if Porzingis can provide,
08:11like, let's say he plays Monday.
08:12He comes out in the first quarter
08:13at the four-minute mark.
08:14And he hits a three or two threes.
08:17And that just the momentum, the way it inspires the crowd,
08:21that can have a lingering effect,
08:22even if he only plays four minutes in the game.
08:24Well, yeah.
08:25That's what I had, like, hoping, though.
08:27Because I just thought the way Joe Mazzullo was
08:29so open about this, that that probably wasn't going to happen.
08:32But if he did play meaningful minutes,
08:34some situation like that, something
08:35that could tip the scale.
08:36But there was no window in this one, right?
08:38I mean, it was a double-digit deficit.
08:40It just kept piling on.
08:42Dallas Mavericks piling up.
08:43There was no way you're going to put Christos in there
08:45and say, oh, he's going to change everything.
08:46And in that sense, you know, you might as well just save him up
08:49and go into game five, hoping that maybe you can put him
08:51in some type of scenario.
08:52I hope he was available for a situation,
08:54like you said, an ATO, or maybe it's
08:56like the inbound pass at the end.
08:58Even something as small as that.
09:00Because if he couldn't play period, and again,
09:02I get that there's no negative to actually making him active.
09:06It's not like someone else is in street clothes because of that.
09:09I just don't get the celebration thing.
09:12Like, I get it, the moment that you want to give to him
09:15and the nod to everything he's done this year.
09:17But I don't get why we're even having this conversation about,
09:19oh, he's improving, and he's getting better,
09:21and he's fighting the play, when it, if it is,
09:24just for him to celebrate at the end of the game.
09:26I mean, the whole statement from him was kind of weird.
09:28He's like, we have him ready for certain situations,
09:30but he's not there yet?
09:31Right, right, right.
09:32I was going to say, before you guys go down this road,
09:34just know that we've spent about a good 10 minutes
09:36on the Celtics postgame show having this conversation.
09:39But let's hear your take.
09:40Because if you guys start going back and forth,
09:41this might turn into a 20-minute segment.
09:42I'm going to lay off.
09:44It's going to turn into a 20-minute segment,
09:45I'm telling you.
09:46Without the other guys in the room here, you know,
09:47Bobby's going to, he's, it's like you hit the reset button.
09:50So, but what's your take on the whole thing?
09:53John's here, John's here, which I
09:55think is kind of helping the situation, if I'm being honest.
09:58He loved it.
09:59Maybe I'm just frustrated that the balloons weren't
10:02dropping here tonight.
10:03There's one more thing I want to get into, because barring
10:05a historic collapse here, no one's ever lost up 3-0.
10:09The Celtics are going to be champions.
10:12I mean, it's like the Celtics almost came back last year.
10:15Almost?
10:16They lost bad in game seven.
10:17But they got back from down 3-0.
10:19You think that's in the cards here?
10:21I mean, I don't think it's going to happen.
10:23I think the Celtics are going to win the series.
10:24They have a 3-1 lead.
10:26I think they're great enough to close out
10:27the series at some point.
10:29But Red Sox in 0-4 did it against the Yankees.
10:33You should be giving the Mavs the speech.
10:352010, the Bruins blew it against the Flyers.
10:38And then just a year ago, the Celtics
10:40almost did it against the Heat in the East Finals.
10:43So Boston sports fans have experienced the highs
10:47and the lows and the almost last year.
10:50And you can't rule out a guy with a potential all-timer
10:54in Luka and one of the better point guards ever in Kyrie
10:57and a cast of role players that just had three bad games
11:00but was really awesome for two months.
11:04You can't rule out that they win a game five.
11:06And then you can't rule out if they're back in Dallas
11:08that they win a game six.
11:09You can't discount them.
11:10And that's why Boston sports fans know it's
11:13not over until it's over.
11:15They know 28-3.
11:16They know the 3-0 comebacks.
11:18Boston sports fans have won so much and lost so much.
11:20They've experienced everything that you
11:22can experience as a fan.
11:24You've experienced 18-1.
11:26You know that the rug can be pulled out from under you.
11:28You know everything can happen.
11:30So until it's over, it's not over.
11:33And that's why it's just all about one game at a time,
11:36not to sound like Bill Belichick.
11:38It's all about just Monday.
11:40You're not going to lose three games on Monday night.
11:42But Dallas also isn't going to win three on Monday night.
11:44But you can't rule anything out as my point.
11:46A panic meter would point in a high direction.
11:48Oh, my god.
11:49Well, one thing that we don't know for sure with certainty
11:52is that we've seen the very best out of Luka.
11:56Like, we don't know that.
11:57We can't say that because he continues to talk himself.
11:58He could reach another level.
11:59And it's not like he went out here and dropped 50.
12:01I mean, these guys won.
12:02The game was wrapped up before the start of the fourth quarter,
12:05and he didn't have to drop 50.
12:06You know what I mean?
12:07Like, that's how explosive these guys were.
12:09And I'll be honest.
12:09And then he got a three tonight, I swear.
12:10Yeah, that too, on top of that.
12:12And like, we know that he has those.
12:14He has that in his bag where he can go out in one night
12:17and just drop four or five, you know, three-pointers.
12:19And all of a sudden, you have a bigger problem,
12:21a problem you've never had this entire series.
12:23So yeah, I think that's something
12:25that everyone's going to have their eyes on.
12:26Let's say the Celtics do take care of business.
12:28What has been your thought on this team?
12:30Are they an all-time team?
12:31How do you kind of look back on this season
12:33if they are going to go on to win the championship?
12:34I mean, like, my main thought is like two thoughts.
12:37A, the growth of Tatum and Brown,
12:38how those guys have improved every single year
12:40of their careers to become Tatum.
12:42He enters the league, people talk about him
12:44as just like a scorer with tunnel vision and all that.
12:46Well, no, he's become an awesome defender,
12:48an awesome rebounder, a really good passer.
12:51We're scoring almost as like the additive cherry on top.
12:53On nights where, like, I mean, he's shooting below 40%
12:55in the series.
12:56He's not been good as a scorer, and yet he's
12:58been good overall.
12:59And then Jalen.
13:00That's been the story most of the playoffs, but go ahead.
13:01Yeah, for sure.
13:02And then Jalen, too.
13:03Like, Jalen's like his left hand.
13:04He has eight turnovers against the Heat in game seven
13:05last year, had five turnovers in games five and six
13:07against the Warriors in the finals.
13:09And he's just a better decision maker,
13:10plays with better flow, better everything.
13:13It's that, and then also it's Brad Stevens.
13:15I mean, like, he inherited one of the best foundations
13:18you can have with what Danny Ainge built.
13:20But he made perfect move after perfect move
13:23in order to put this team in position to win a championship.
13:27And that's hard to do, man.
13:28And I think Stevens deserves a hell of a lot of credit.
13:31Ainge does, too, but also Wick Grosbeck.
13:34Because, like, I think Wick, like,
13:36go back 20 years to when Danny Ainge traded Antoine Walker,
13:3910 years when Danny Ainge traded Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett,
13:44a year ago when Brad Stevens traded Marcus Smart.
13:46They've never been afraid over the years
13:48to trade the fan favorite, to make the tough moves.
13:52And you've got to make the tough moves
13:53in order to win a championship.
13:54And I think the whole organization
13:55deserves credit for that.
13:57Well, they got to go out there and do it officially on Monday,
13:59game five, back in Boston.
14:02Celtics will try to put this one away
14:03after an uninspiring one here.
14:05They flew out of the building, and they're already
14:07on the way back to Boston.
14:08So a couple of days off here.
14:10That was quick.
14:11That was the quickest pressers.
14:12That was the quickest exit I've seen all season.
14:14A little red eye?
14:15They're ready to go.
14:15I mean, they got the bigs.
14:17They lay down seats.
14:18They're comfortable.
14:19Yeah, they'll be all right.
14:22They didn't want to stick around in Dallas.
14:23They don't want to come back here either, certainly.
14:25So I want to give a shout out to our last sponsor here,
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14:51He is Kevin O'Connor.
14:53And if you've got a cramp for draft coverage, he's your guy.
14:57I'll tell you, Celtics fans watching, 30th pick,
15:01no one is paying attention to the draft in Boston.
15:03Could get a good player at number 30.
15:05They could use one, second apron and all that.
15:07It's a good role player draft.
15:08It's a good role.
15:09So check out the Ringers NBA draft
15:10guide for a bunch of scouting reports
15:12once the finals are over.
15:13You can't wait till then.
15:14Thanks to the second apron, we're
15:15going to be hearing that every year.
15:16Hey, there's some good role players.
15:18Good crop of these second rounders.
15:20I mean, they're important, man.
15:21Early second rounder, late first.
15:22Undrafted guys, Sam Houser, Peyton Pritchard.
15:25Those guys are important.
15:26They are.
15:28All right, Joe Spade Pavone as well here at CLNS Media.
15:29I'm Bobby Manning.
15:30Celtics lose game four.
15:32But glad we were able to talk to Kevin O'Connor here,
15:34former Garden Report panelist and Celtics lawyer.
15:38We'll talk to you back in Boston.
15:39We'll talk to you back in Boston.