There's a lot of basketball to be a fan of in New England. The Boston Celtics stand as the premier hoopers in the region, but greatness can also be found among the UConn Huskies women's and men's programs and the WNBA's Connecticut Sun in recent years. That history will become even more entangled as the Sun are set to play at TD Garden this summer for the first time ever as the Boston landmark arena hosts its first-ever WNBA tilt.
On the night the news broke, the Celtics played at the Garden, and Sun center Brionna Jones and All-NBA Boston forward Jaylen Brown swapped jerseys. To hear the story behind that exchange, the first-ever WNBA game at the Garden, what she thinks of the rise of the Jays, and Jones' thoughts on this season's Celtics, the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with the Sun star.
We also got into the state of Boston's All-Star vote, the latest details on the Celtics' trade deadline plans, and more.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.
On the night the news broke, the Celtics played at the Garden, and Sun center Brionna Jones and All-NBA Boston forward Jaylen Brown swapped jerseys. To hear the story behind that exchange, the first-ever WNBA game at the Garden, what she thinks of the rise of the Jays, and Jones' thoughts on this season's Celtics, the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with the Sun star.
We also got into the state of Boston's All-Star vote, the latest details on the Celtics' trade deadline plans, and more.
The Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 And then when we went to the game to watch the Celtics and do the jersey swap with Jalen Brown
00:06 when they announced it. So those were definitely highlights of the trip and just you know
00:11 conversations around it just seemed like everybody was excited. I think the Celtics organization,
00:16 everybody talked to them, they were excited about the partnership and bringing the Connecticut
00:20 Sun to Boston and I think just I think the buzz that it's creating is good for both organizations.
00:27 [Music]
00:36 All righty, welcome to the Celtics Lab podcast brought to you by FanDuel,
00:40 the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network. I'm Cameron Heptivy,
00:44 I'm joined by Alex Goldberg, Dr. Justin Quinn has the day off. In the lab, the lab portion of the
00:51 programming, I'm actually going to be talking to Brianna Jones, the Connecticut Sun from the WNBA.
00:57 The Sun are going to play the Sparks not down in Connecticut but up in Boston for a game in August
01:04 and I got to talk to Brianna about that, her thoughts on the Celtics team, her thoughts on
01:09 the Jays hitting a prime and a bunch of other stuff. It was a really cool conversation. So that
01:13 is later in the program but first Alex and I are going to chew fat on the news, chew the fat
01:20 on trade rumors, all that wonderful stuff. So later Brianna, now Alex. Alex, what's up?
01:29 Well first off Cam, just want to shout out Brianna Jones and everybody who is rocking in the WNBA
01:37 right now. The league is only getting better and better and better. You should absolutely make
01:42 sure if you like the Celtics Lab podcast and if you like the Boston Celtics and if you like the
01:46 NBA generally to find ways to get into the WNBA because trust me these ladies are hooping. I am
01:55 going to try and catch some Liberty games here in Brooklyn among other things and hopefully Boston
02:01 will be getting into the WNBA world soon enough. Anyway. I didn't want to put that on Brianna's
02:07 shoulders but we did talk about how the league is maybe finally getting the recognition it deserves
02:12 and some other fun stuff. So well said. Also yeah maybe Boston will, I mean if there's an appetite
02:19 this August. So look if you want the WNBA to consider a Boston expansion you better go to
02:26 that Sun game and show the money makers what's what. Oh yeah. Alex, I don't think we've talked
02:32 about this. Divine Sweater, the band who plays our intro music, you play bass for that band.
02:36 I don't think we've talked about the fact that you just won an award. You want to
02:40 take 10 seconds? Sure yeah. Speaking of Boston we were lucky enough to win this year's Boston
02:48 Music Awards category for Best Indie Alternative Artist. Huge honor. Got to share the stage that
02:56 night with a ton of other incredible artists. It was a really really fun night and speaking of that
03:02 night in a future episode of the Celtics Lab podcast as a little preview we're going to be
03:09 doing a more thorough recap of that night and a bunch of other stuff with a guest coming soon.
03:16 That's a little preview there for you. But yeah no it was a blast. Things are happening. If you
03:22 like the music that you heard at the top throw us a follow on Spotify, listen to our stuff,
03:28 Apple Music, SoundCloud, Bandcamp, whatever you name it. Adaptive, any mixtapes coming out?
03:35 Right Napster, Limewire, let's see what else. We're thinking about you know CD-ROM,
03:44 stuff like that. We'll get there. I'm not buying that if I think that that's a bubble.
03:48 Horrible banter. All right it's January 8th which means we're a month away from the trade
03:57 deadline which means when most people listen to this it will be under a month until the NBA trade
04:02 deadline. And if you're a Celtics fan and you like trades, Brad Stevens recently threw some
04:08 cold water right in your face. He wants to remind people or he visited practice and he was asked
04:12 about it. These are basically the highlights of what he said. And I agree with him. He's right
04:18 about this. The CBA and the cap structure put real limitations on teams that have spent as much money
04:23 as the Celtics. Restrictions on salary that can come in, restrictions on salary that can go out,
04:28 restrictions on buyouts. So it's a little more complicated for a team like the Celtics.
04:32 He said that the center rotation is unlikely to be upgraded although I think that we don't believe
04:38 him. And he did say that the Celtics are interested in a forward or a wing but he's very curious
04:45 about what internal growth looks like. So to recap, realistically it's going to be hard for
04:52 the Celtics to do although he did say that the ownership has green-lighted any spending they
04:57 can figure out how to make happen. We don't believe him about the center rotation necessarily
05:03 and we do believe him about wanting to upgrade the forward position but Brad says maybe that
05:08 happens within. So Alex let's take him at his word and then peel the onion. Now that you've
05:13 sat on these comments because these comments came at the tail end of last week, we've seen a nice,
05:18 really nice few games from O'Shea Bursette, Sam Hauser's had a nice season, Lamar Stevens
05:24 in bits and spurts. What do you think internal growth on the wing looks like for the Celtics?
05:29 So internal growth on the wing for me, it feels like Sam Hauser is pretty locked into this
05:35 rotation at this point. He continues to get better. I don't think he's going to be going anywhere.
05:40 For me that sounds like O'Shea Bursette for sure having a kind of more significant portion of the
05:48 rotation carved out for him. He's been playing pretty well lately. He's been providing a lot
05:52 of hustle and energy off the bench. The three-point shot is still very much hit or miss and in general
06:00 his offense can be a struggle at times but he is making up for it with very impressive defense and
06:06 hustle. And I think if you're looking for the internal case of Boston doesn't need to make any
06:12 substantial moves around the deadline for wings, it probably starts with O'Shea Bursette just
06:19 kind of continuing to grow and get more confident. There are some other guys that
06:23 have seen run here and there, Sfinek Hyliak, Lamar Stevens, but to me those two feel like they are
06:31 less likely to be a significant part of the rotation going forward and Bursette feels like
06:37 of their kind of wing prospects, the guy who's most likely to get more run.
06:42 Yeah, I'm really interested in O'Shea Bursette. I'm looking something up as I speak so
06:47 apologies if I look and sound distracted. I really like his hustle. Oh, that's interesting.
06:55 Oh, never mind. Sorry. Like I said, I'm distracted. Let me tell you what I'm up to.
07:00 Okay. I think that O'Shea Bursette, if you squint, has a good impression of Tobias Harris
07:08 at a very minimal cost save to your point the three-point shooting.
07:15 But Tobias Harris is a great deal better as an offensive player on kind of every level.
07:20 But well, yes, except for example, with the Sixers, he's not like a feature player. He just kind of
07:28 has to connect. He has to find ways. They don't run in place for Tobias Harris, I don't think.
07:32 And O'Shea Bursette is kind of the same way. He's got a similar build. I think he moves similarly.
07:39 He doesn't shoot as well. I'm not going to pretend like that's not a huge glaring part
07:43 of this argument. But the idea that he is a bit of a four, a bit of a three, can stand on the
07:50 corner, can also make the hustle play, out of nowhere can kickstart a breakaway play. I'm not
07:56 saying he's as good as Tobias Harris, but I also think Tobias Harris makes 10 times as much money
08:00 as Tobias Harris probably should make. So somewhere in the middle is probably where water would find
08:06 its level. I would love to see Bursette in space. I kind of wish they would spend a few games giving
08:13 him the wrong defensive matchup, just to see what he could do if he has to spend a lot of time
08:18 switched on to smaller cards. Because I think he does a nice job as a plug-in on defense, but I
08:27 don't know if he could be a featured defensive player. I think also part of the Celtics defensive
08:33 system, which is currently looking really good, among other things, definitely tries to kind of
08:41 avoid having like pure one-on-one matchups as much as possible. They've been running a lot of zone
08:48 this year. They've been running a lot of switching. I mean, and when it is kind of crunch time and
08:54 they need to take away guys, I think increasingly they're starting to put Jason Tatum or Jalen
08:58 Brown on them, which is paying dividends. But in terms of like, if you want another wrinkle,
09:06 which I think Joe Mazzullo is kind of always looking for, is just like, how can we make this
09:10 defense even more flexible, have even more kind of layers and reads that we can go to?
09:16 Putting O'Shea Bursette for five minutes on like a ball handler and just saying, "Hey, use your size
09:23 and take this person away," is definitely an intriguing idea and one that I think they could
09:30 be using kind of periodically. I feel like the place where that would be most impactful is against
09:36 teams that have high impact scoring guards that they bring off the bench, like a six man, like
09:43 an Emmanuel Quickly type or something like that. If you're going up against a team or a Tyler Hero,
09:49 whatnot, like a team that has a significant portion of their offense as like a kind of ISO
09:58 bench creator, if there's a way that you could kind of turn Bursette into a counter for that,
10:05 that could be a really intriguing look for this defense.
10:07 I guess, yes, I agree with that. It's more, look, they're winning 80% of their games. I think they
10:15 can afford to experiment a little more insofar as like if they want to make a trade, they kind of
10:20 need to know more about who Bursette is. I would hate for them to give him a vote of confidence
10:26 without stress testing it, no offense to him, and then in April or May realize, "Oh wait, he can't
10:31 do this. There's no way he can guard Tyler Hero in space," or whatever.
10:36 I think that's a big part of why he's playing more lately in particular as well. I think January is,
10:42 they're kind of testing out to see what they have there.
10:45 Yeah, I'm curious. I haven't really looked into this. I have the sense that the Celtics are among
10:50 the healthier teams, but at the same time, every other game, like someone is out. So like,
10:56 knock on wood, no one has any serious injuries, but like with rest management or little ankle
11:02 tweaks or things like that, I'm curious if people like to add up the number of minutes missed.
11:06 I wonder where the Celtics rank at this moment, because part of it is, you're right, that Bursette
11:13 didn't play much at the beginning of the season, and now, oh, I wonder why he's playing more.
11:17 I do also think that Horford is not playing on back-to-backs. Got an extra night of rest the
11:23 other day. Porzingis is not playing on back-to-backs. Hauser has something he tweaked. Jason has an
11:30 ankle that he tweaked. So there's also a little bit more wiggle room in the rotation just by way
11:35 of health. But I don't know. Justin, who's not here, has in our show notes that Steak Bay,
11:42 I think everyone listening or on the call is in agreement with that one, but
11:47 I don't know if the asking price is believable. And then a friend of the podcast, Jack Simone,
11:57 was saying something about the pronunciation of this person's name. I forget what he told me,
12:01 so I'm going to try my best. Simone Fontecchio, maybe it's Simone Fontecchio. He plays for the
12:08 Jazz. He's a scrappy little guy. I think he's a smaller wing, but that'd be an interesting get,
12:14 and that's Justin's show. But I like Fontecchio's game a lot. Otherwise, I think anyone listening
12:21 kind of knows the news. Jake Fisher of Yahoo says they want to keep Cornett. Everything
12:26 and everyone seems to be saying they like Cornett, they believe in Cornett.
12:33 And Cornett's, he's like plausibly good enough. He's not actually good enough,
12:38 but he's plausibly good enough. At the very least, Cornett can eat regular season minutes
12:44 and will not get played off the floor. And that's kind of what he's there for.
12:48 I have noticed that in recent weeks in particular, Cornett has been playing a lot better.
12:55 And I think in general, he's starting to kind of emerge as this team's locker room favorite,
13:02 which I think is going to make a compelling argument that he will be staying in green
13:07 past the deadline. If you want the vibes of this team to be good heading into the playoffs,
13:12 all those guys really like Luke Cornett. And I think there's something to the idea that just
13:19 keeping him on the team for vibes reasons alone might be worthwhile. I think there's definitely,
13:27 I'm not super sure that Brad Stevens is hunting on the idea of upgrading the big spot. I continue
13:34 to think that Andre Drummond is an extremely logical candidate for this team come playoff time.
13:40 The price now might now be a little bit high for Boston in terms of what Chicago is going to be
13:47 asking for. But I continue to think that he would be just a good look for this team, particularly
13:53 like that guy, offensive rebounds, like very few players in the league and the Celtics have been
14:00 feasting on offensive rebounds this year. So he does make sense to me. A couple of other names
14:07 that have been batted around, John Conchar, I think perfectly solid addition if the Boston Celtics
14:13 roll out of the trade deadline with John Conchar and then buyout guy X, I'm going to be perfectly
14:19 okay with that. I think the big one though, that some Celtics fans have been kind of getting
14:26 excited about that I think is maybe worth some discussion is an unhappy bench forward in Golden
14:34 State, a team that is looking awfully unhappy these days. Jonathan Kaminga is apparently,
14:40 I don't know if he's actually available, but he certainly wants to be available and he fits within
14:44 that Grant Williams trade exception. Now, Jonathan Kaminga is probably going to be a good deal more
14:52 expensive from a capital, draft capital standpoint than your Sadiq Baez or your John Conchars.
14:58 But if we're looking at potential guys to bring in in anticipation of a championship run,
15:07 that could be a very interesting candidate. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on
15:12 like Boston, for example, coughing up potentially like first round pick value
15:17 for a player like Jonathan Kaminga? Yeah. Unless everyone in the front office knows that in two
15:25 years, they're going to hit reset on this because the team's going to get really expensive. Like if
15:29 that is their operating procedure, which I suppose is plausible in a different way,
15:37 use the picks. The picks are worthless. Like I don't understand teams that get
15:41 sanctimonious about like near future picks when you're intending to be good, especially because
15:48 I don't think the Celtics draft that well. So by all means use the picks and Kaminga is great.
15:55 Kaminga is authentically a very good player, like would be a sick replacement for Al Horford,
16:00 who in a season or two will probably look to retire, take a different step in his career.
16:06 So if Kaminga is your sixth or eighth guy, so then it's Horford, Kaminga,
16:13 Hauser off the bench, it's a little redundant, but that's kind of the point. Now, really,
16:20 the only thing that I would say would give me pause is first of all, I don't want to get too
16:25 excited because lots of teams would want to get Kaminga on their team and could probably make it
16:31 happen with a more attractive first round pick or more attractive players. If the Celtics don't have
16:36 that attractive of an offer for real talent. Second, Kaminga was in the news because he said
16:43 he lost faith in Steve Kerr and then got like one of the world's worst haircuts.
16:48 So that gives me pause. I'm not going to like pretend like I know the guy. I'm not going to
16:53 analyze his behavior, but that was a weird series of events. Second of all, he probably wishes he
16:58 was getting more playing time. And we are hoping the Celtics bring in a starter quality, big man,
17:06 who doesn't need to play starter minutes. So I don't know that Kaminga would be thrilled.
17:12 And if no offense to him, again, I don't know this person. I don't want to like
17:16 sound paternalistic, but he doesn't respect Steve Kerr, who is a multi-time champion and has like
17:27 sparred with Michael Jordan. I don't know that a few tumultuous weeks, Joe Mazzuola is going to
17:35 do him any good. So again, I'm not saying he's a bad egg and like never ever bring him in,
17:40 but I would wonder, I'd want to know more about like what's going on there.
17:44 Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think that in general, you know, young players are looking
17:49 for an opportunity. Last year, we saw it with Peyton Pritchard, who was pretty upset about
17:53 the fact that, you know, Malcolm Brogdon basically bumped him out of the rotation in any meaningful
17:58 sense. These guys, I think both from a playing time standpoint and like there's contractual
18:04 implications to this. Jonathan Kamingo wants to make money on his next deal and I can't blame
18:08 him for that. And, you know, if he comes to Boston as an eighth man on a championship team,
18:14 I'm not necessarily sure that that helps enhance his value around the league and puts him in a
18:20 good position to negotiate for a bigger deal. Like, I think that's totally legitimate. I do think that
18:26 if you bring him in as a rental, basically thinking like, hey, listen, we're not expecting
18:33 you to like be a long term part of our team. But if you play super hard over these next few months,
18:40 we'll let you hit unrestricted free agency and make some real money as a team that's taking a
18:46 kind of flyer on you. That could be something to look at. But in general, I think the kind of most
18:52 salient point that you made is that ultimately, Boston probably doesn't have the best offer for
18:56 Kamingo. And that's a big part of why he's not going to, I think, be on this team. I also think
19:02 while we're on that, they might not have the most competitive buyout offer because I think
19:08 like teams like the Lakers, if Kelly Olenek gets bought out, maybe he really misses his time in
19:15 Boston. But there are teams like the Heat or the Lakers who might contend and probably could give
19:21 those players like real roles rather than injury insurance roles. So I'd be curious what that ends
19:26 up looking like, too. Yeah, typically, Boston has kind of been burned by that in past buyout markets
19:32 where like there are vet players that are available and want to ring chase and in theory would go to
19:38 Boston. But Boston's rotation is usually shorn up by the time that happens. I think there's
19:45 definitely some guys who could be looking at a buyout slot in Boston. But again, they are probably
19:52 like very much like we're at the end of our career. We just want to cash out on a ring type of guys.
19:59 And I think that's fine, actually, for this team. I think that I would be totally okay with just
20:05 bringing in another quality vet who has playoff experience and wants to cash out for a ring.
20:12 Not a problem. No, not at all. I mean, who knows? Maybe Kemba or Blake will come back.
20:17 That would be fun. Blake Griffin, sure. Come on down.
20:21 So long as you don't have to play defense. Let's do this. I'm going to pause the action and talk
20:25 about our friends over at FanDuel. And then we have a few other pieces of news. And then later,
20:31 my conversation with Brianna Jones of the Connecticut Sun.
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21:11 A few more things and then again, to the lab we go. So we don't want to dwell too much on this
21:17 because on Thursday of this week, we will know more about the all-star voting updates and the
21:23 following Thursday, we will learn even more. But at present, it looks like Jason Tatum is a lock
21:29 to start in the all-star game in February in Indiana. Jalen Brown is, looks like he's not
21:37 going to get a starter position, but going to be very high up in the fan voting, which will probably
21:42 mean he will get a vote from the coaches. Chris "Taps" Porzingis also has a pretty solid case.
21:47 And then Drew Holliday and Dwight, Derek White are on the list and not like charitably, but firmly.
21:54 So as a reminder, the starters are picked by a fan vote that gets 50% of the vote and then players
22:01 vote 25% of that vote and coaches 25% of that, all for the starters. The reserves are then picked by
22:08 the coaches. And I think a few weeks ago I said Joe Mazzola could be the coach, but he can't be the
22:15 coach because he coached last year, which I had said originally. And then someone corrected me
22:19 and I got confused. So sorry that I shared that confusion. Anyways, Alex, I'm right about this,
22:26 that Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown will be in the all-star game. Tatum will start and Brown will not,
22:31 but he'll be on the team. Alex "Zack" Parsons That's correct.
22:33 What else do you want to add to that formula? Well, so really quickly, I just want to talk
22:39 about Jalen Brown because I think Jason Tatum is a lock and is going to be a lock for the next
22:45 decade if he stays healthy, that seems easy. Jalen Brown, I think has had a more complex case
22:52 this year in some respects. A lot of media types that have been making their early all-star ballots
22:59 and things like that have not put Jalen Brown on. And I think mostly because, not because he's a bad
23:04 player, but because it's pretty tough in the East this year. There's a lot of good players.
23:10 Jalen Brown is currently averaging, I believe, 23 points per game, which is lower than last year
23:21 when he was averaging 20, closer to 27. It's a little bit more in line with his averages since
23:26 2020, but in general, it's not the same point totals. He's down on rebounds. His assists are
23:35 basically where they have been for the last four years or so. His shooting percentages are largely
23:40 the same. So you're asking if the rest of the East is starting to get better and you're starting to
23:45 see the Paulo Banqueros and all of these other hot young players emerge, and Jalen Brown has been
23:51 largely the same with a decreased scoring average, what's the case for Jalen Brown being on this team?
23:58 And to that, I would point you to this, which is that Jalen Brown currently leads the league in
24:05 lowest opponent field goal percentage this season. Jalen Brown has turned into one hell of a defender
24:13 this year and is really taking some pride in making that a signature part of his game. He still
24:19 has lapses. He still makes mistakes on that end, but if you want a guy to erase somebody for a few
24:26 possessions, so far, if you're looking for that guy this season, Jalen Brown has been that man.
24:31 So the case for Jalen Brown should be an all-star really starts to me on the defensive end where
24:38 he's playing, I think, better than he ever has. He's making a pretty substantial jump there. And
24:43 I think as a two-way player, I would argue this is the best version of Jalen Brown that we've seen.
24:50 The shooting efficiency, the scoring, they're not quite the same, but you got to remember,
24:55 Jalen is also now sharing the floor with a bunch of other high volume scoring threats. Christophe
25:01 Porzingis needs the ball. Derek White needs the ball if they want to be the team that they're
25:06 trying to be. So to see his scoring dip slightly, really not even that much in comparison to his
25:13 more recent career averages, and then to see him kind of becoming a much more confident and
25:19 comfortable player on the other end of the court, to me, it's a no-brainer. Jalen Brown has to be
25:24 an all-star this year. The Celtics have the best record in the league. I think there's a pretty
25:29 good chance that they're still going to have that or like a top two record by the time the all-star
25:35 game actually rolls around. The best team in the league almost always gets at least two all-stars,
25:41 and Jalen Brown, to me, makes a ton of sense as that second guy. For the other dudes,
25:48 Christophe Porzingis has had a really good season. I think by any reasonable measure, his stats are
25:55 in line with all-star production. He's one of the most efficient post players in the league,
25:59 if not the most efficient. His rim protection is terrific. And if you watch the games, you can see
26:06 how much of an impact he's had on this team in kind of raising their offensive ceiling while
26:11 still providing a ton of valuable rim protection. The case against Christophe Porzingis is that he
26:17 misses games and is going to likely miss more games in the future. He's big and he's lanky,
26:24 and he bangs around. And I think for Porzingis, it's way more important that he'd be healthy in
26:31 the playoffs than that he make the all-star game. So if you're pushing back against that,
26:36 if you're looking for like, let's get some other guys in this game, the case against Porzingis is
26:40 that he, you could argue he doesn't play enough. I'm curious, actually, before I move on, what do
26:47 you think of the Christophe Porzingis games case? - I don't think it's relevant for an all-star game.
26:54 All-star games are fun. It doesn't matter. First of all, I'm looking at the official fan
27:00 return thing, and I'm wondering if it was made on a Google doc. It's not a very handsome document.
27:05 I thought the fans actually did a really nice job with the voting. Usually, I mean, Alper and
27:12 Shengun is the seventh front-court vote-getter. - No Devin Booker is a little weird to me.
27:20 - I said, no Devin Booker. Lamello Ball is seventh for guards. He's barely played. But by and large,
27:25 it's not as ridiculous as it sometimes is. I actually think Porzingis is going to get in,
27:30 because I wouldn't be surprised. So next, this coming Thursday and the following Thursday,
27:35 we'll get new fan votes. And Brooklyn just is sad, and the team is sad, and the players are sad,
27:41 and the fans are sad. And I wouldn't be surprised if Porzingis jumps. Mikael Bridges, and then he,
27:46 he could even close the gap on Bam. I feel like the Heat have had less time in the sun.
27:54 Boston has a big fan base. Eastern Europe has a big fan base. Fan voting could go the distance.
28:00 And then I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics, being like so dramatically the one seed,
28:06 convinces coaches that they should have a third All-Star. I have no sense of how well-liked
28:10 Porzingis is. And then Jalen, so he's fifth for fan voting, pretty solidly. And that's pretty
28:18 impressive. He doesn't do really any commercials. He doesn't partner with Gatorade. He doesn't
28:24 partner with any of these brands, really. He does his thing on his terms. And so he doesn't get that
28:33 added bump of teenagers across the country or across the world know about Jalen Brown because
28:39 he's on their favorite Gatorade or whatever. Whereas a bunch of, like, LaMelo Ball is not
28:44 an All-Star. LaMelo Ball is not, he's not an All-Star. But he is so well-liked. His branding
28:50 is so obvious that, I mean, same with Trey Young. He's not an All-Star either, but he's third on the
28:57 voting list. So it's actually, I think, impressive for Jalen to be where he is, given that he doesn't
29:01 do extra work. So let's put a pin in that for two reasons. First of all, we'll get new information
29:08 on Thursday, but also Zoom is telling me we have run out of time here. And I just really quickly
29:14 jump in about the Derek White Drew Holiday cases. Derek White is an All-Star in my heart. He has
29:20 been playing like an All-Star, just a fabulous basketball player. And I really think would be
29:25 deserving of an All-Star spot. I don't think it's going to happen, if I'm being honest, because A,
29:33 the East is pretty stacked. There's only 12 spots. And B, I think the guard in the guard rotation in
29:41 particular in the East is really heavy, like Tyrese Halliburton, Tyrese Maxey, Jalen Brunson,
29:49 Trey Young. I know that we don't necessarily think all of those guys are All-Star players,
29:55 but it's going to be really hard to crack the East guard rotation. Derek White could get in
30:01 as an injury replacement. I'm not betting on it. Drew Holiday, great player. I think he's been
30:07 terrific for Boston this year. So much defensive flexibility that you can add with him. Joe Mazzuolo
30:13 clearly loves having this guy on the team. Drew Holiday is not going to be making the All-Star
30:18 team this year. Yeah, Drew, he'd have to have multiple 30-point games in the next few weeks
30:24 to convince the coaches, which is fine. If anything, a player like Drew would probably
30:30 prefer the extended vacation anyways. All right. So because Zoom wants to kick us out pretty soon,
30:37 let's do this quickly. The Celtics lost to the Thunder in a kind of wishy-washy game,
30:46 but that was weeks ago. They beat Utah in a big way. They beat Indiana pretty good.
30:50 Tonight, they're going to play Indiana again, but no Tatum or Hauser. Indiana's a good team,
30:56 so who knows? Wednesday, they're going to host Minnesota, which will be sick. And if they win,
31:03 they'll set the record for most home victories to open a season, which is kind of cool for the
31:07 franchise. But then they have a back-to-back on the road in Milwaukee. So it would be very mature
31:16 for Missoula to split the difference and go 80% for both of the games rather than
31:20 one or the other. But I guess I don't really know. Maybe I'll ask them on Wednesday.
31:25 And then for good measure, they play Houston at home on Saturday. Between those three games, which
31:32 the Houston thing is most surprising, what are you looking for? Because after that stretch,
31:38 that's when the so-called easiest schedule remaining, that's when things open up for the
31:42 Celtics. So these might be the next consecutive tough games for a while for Boston.
31:48 So I think the place to start is with Jason Tatum, who was terrific both in the loss to OKC
31:55 and in those blowout wins against Utah and Indiana, and in general seems to be
31:59 picking up steam as the season progresses. He has the night off in Indy tonight, and I don't
32:04 think that's an accident. I think they are explicitly doing that with the plan of, "Hey,
32:10 you're going to be playing against Minnesota and Milwaukee." So the thing I'm watching for is,
32:17 is Jason Tatum going to continue this hot shooting streak that he's been on and really asserting his
32:22 will in all of these games? To me, that's the biggest difference between whether they're going
32:27 to succeed on this stretch or not. Obviously, there are some legitimate health concerns.
32:33 Christoph Sporzingis has been taking some hard falls and getting some eye injuries.
32:37 Al Horford does not play back-to-backs. I would be very surprised if he plays a back-to-back
32:42 against the Bucs. Although what they might do is rest him against Minnesota and then play him
32:49 against Milwaukee. I think Sporzingis will have the night off in Milwaukee.
32:53 That's definitely a possibility. I'll be interested to see how they handle that back-to-back.
32:59 This team really cares about this home-winning record, and I think they're going to try very
33:05 hard to beat that Timberwolves team specifically as well because they lost to them in a really
33:10 great overtime thriller to start the season. I think they want to beat that Minnesota team,
33:16 but then right off of that, you have your closest conference rival in Milwaukee just coming on the
33:23 heels. I think that Boston has played Milwaukee quite well this year and in general seems to be
33:29 pretty confident about them, but the Bucs are going to be trying really hard to win that game.
33:34 So what I'm looking for is, frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Boston takes the night off tonight
33:40 against the Indiana Pacers. They thumped them pretty badly in the previous game. I would not
33:47 be shocked if they say, "All right, guys. We've got Minnesota. We've got Milwaukee coming up.
33:52 We want to win both of those games on that back-to-back, and we have real stake in that
33:57 matter. So let's take it easy tonight against Indy, a team that we know that we can beat when
34:02 it matters. Chill out and then really gear up for that." So I'm thinking of that four-game stretch
34:09 with the Rockets, who are playing well, coming on the heels of that back-to-back. I'm looking for
34:15 them to win three of those games. I think that there's a world in which they take the night off
34:21 tonight in Indy. - It sounds like the fans are taking the night off. I'm looking at the ESPN
34:26 schedule, so I don't know who their ticket partner is, but it says tickets as low as $5.
34:31 So that'll do it. - That'll do it. Even the Bucks game, tickets as low as $40. I mean,
34:38 that's one of the cheapest things remaining, save like a trip to Charlotte.
34:42 So that's pretty extraordinary. We can unpack that another time. I'm excited and maybe dismayed.
34:52 I'm emotional for Drew Holliday going back to Milwaukee. I wouldn't be surprised if
34:59 he also feels big emotions. I think we haven't really heard much of how he truly feels about
35:06 that, but my guess is he'll get a video package and he'll be asked about it before the game and
35:10 after the game, and that will kind of be one of the storylines. So I agree. I think Boston would
35:17 like to beat the pants out of Minnesota. And I just really like watching Anthony Edwards play
35:23 basketball. I'm so excited for that game. And then, yeah, I don't know that they need to, like,
35:30 I think one of the reasons they would rest Porzingis is they don't need to prove anything
35:34 to themselves vis-a-vis the Bucks. So like, why give them a look at Porzingis? It's a little ace
35:42 up their sleeve to keep, because I'm not, the Bucks stink. And I'm not being a homer. I just,
35:50 like, the puzzle pieces don't fit. They have a nice record because Giannis is very good,
35:54 but they're not a team that looks, I think, on the distance. They need to make a trade.
35:59 They shouldn't have traded for Dame. It was their decision. They don't have a lot of juice to do
36:03 that, but they have no juice. They have no juice. Okay. Rematch against Udoka on Saturday as well.
36:11 That'll be interesting. I think, I think it's his first time back in Boston. I believe so. Yeah.
36:19 I will be in Maine. And I'm kind of happy that I don't have to cover that because,
36:23 anyways, things we didn't get to, actually, we talked for longer than I thought we were going to.
36:30 Marcus Smart and Danilo Gallinari said they have no ill will towards Boston. Great.
36:34 We don't have ill will towards them. Derek White's interview with JJ Ruddick was great. I don't need
36:42 to summarize it for you. If you like podcasts, you made it this far. You should listen to it.
36:46 Go listen to it. Justin wants me to promote a story I did with Jalen Brown about his Vance and
36:52 Jackets. You can just go find it. I'm not going to. If you're interested, go. I worked really hard
36:58 and I'm very proud of it. It is a good story. Thanks. I was just teaching the Industrial
37:03 Revolution, so it worked out well. Anyways, let me tell you that this episode of the Self-Defense
37:10 Podcast was brought to you by FanDuel, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLS Media
37:14 Network. For Alex, Alex, say goodbye. Well, as I said before, if you like the music you heard at
37:22 the top of this podcast, Divine Sweater, follow us on Instagram, Spotify, TikTok, whatever. The
37:27 songs are good. We don't have any shows coming up in the immediate future, but we have some
37:32 announcements coming your way very soon. So throw us a follow. Divine Sweater, Vance, and Jacket?
37:39 The Jacket might not be coming just yet, but definitely, definitely some things headed out
37:45 your way. Well, if you see me walking around in one of those puppies, you know it fell off a truck
37:49 because they are a little expensive. Justin says hello and like and subscribe. And now,
37:56 through the magic of editing, please enjoy my conversation with Brian Jones of the Connecticut
38:01 Sun, which was recorded at an undisclosed location that I'll tell Alex about in a moment.
38:06 Adios. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you later. Adios and au revoir. All right. We're here
38:14 with Brianna Jones, star of the Connecticut Sun. Brianna, we're going to talk to you about
38:18 the Sun's upcoming game in Boston and a bunch of other things. But first, how are you?
38:23 I'm good. I'm doing well. You know, I'm just on the road to recovery right now from my Achilles
38:29 injury. So everything's good on my end. I'm on track with everything. Oh, good. I'm glad
38:36 to hear it. I was going to ask you about that. So maybe let me turn into a question. What is the
38:41 most surprising thing about this recovery or what's been a challenge that you didn't expect?
38:47 And correct me if I'm wrong, was a full Achilles tear? Yeah, it was a full Achilles tear. I think
38:55 the most challenging thing has been just, you know, relearning everything again. Just, you know,
39:00 first, like taking those first steps, those first steps, you know, getting my strength back
39:06 in my calf. And then, you know, just, you know, now I'm learning how to run again. So it's just
39:11 like, you know, each milestone has like a new challenge. So it's just, you know, taking it
39:16 one day at a time. Sure. Well, good luck with that. And then before we get into the Celtics
39:22 stuff and the WNBA stuff, you're working with your alma mater, University of Maryland, right?
39:28 Right. Yeah. So I'm helping out there, you know, doing a little coaching and I'm just, you know,
39:33 getting a first look at, you know, behind the scenes of, you know, what goes on at a,
39:36 you know, Division One program on the coaching side of things, because, you know, as a player,
39:40 I've been through all that. So just, you know, seeing the other side of it has been eye opening.
39:44 Cool. My twin sister ran a season of track with Maryland. So go Terps. Yes. All right. So you're
39:52 not here to talk about the Terps. You're here to talk about the sun and specifically the fact that
39:57 this August on August 20th, you're playing the Sparks, but you will be up in Boston at TD Garden.
40:03 So first, what do you think of the plan for all of that? And when did you first find out?
40:08 I mean, I'm excited to play at TD Garden. I think just to be able to, you know, bring
40:14 Connecticut Sun basketball to Boston and, you know, into a new market is just an exciting
40:18 experience and then play in such a such a great place as TD Garden. But, you know, I'm looking
40:25 forward to the game and I think it's just going to do wonders for our market and, you know,
40:31 bringing new fans. And I first found out, I think they kind of mentioned in passing, like they were
40:38 trying to work with the Celtics after we had gotten that deal last year, you know, working,
40:43 partnering with the Celtics. So, you know, it's been in talks, but like when it officially came
40:48 out and they confirmed that we're going to have a game this year, you know, I was excited about it
40:53 and I'm looking forward to it. Do you have a favorite venue, either college or professional,
40:58 to play at as a visitor? I know home court is your favorite, but your second favorite?
41:04 Second favorite, I really enjoy playing in Seattle. I think they have really good
41:10 fan base and then they have their new arena is amazing to play at. So that's one of the places
41:15 that I enjoy playing at. All right. So that's a challenge for fans of Boston to be at least as
41:20 exciting as Seattle. So to launch this partnership and to announce that you and a bunch of people
41:26 from the Sun came up to Boston a few weeks ago to visit TD and to go to a Celtics game,
41:32 you did a jersey swap with Jalen Brown. Talk me through that experience. What were some of
41:36 the highlights and what were some of the conversations you had? Yeah, so we had gone
41:43 down and, you know, we had did a little tour of Boston, but like we had gone around to different
41:49 hot spots in Boston. We went to the Square and like just, you know, promote the game. Like we
41:58 took pictures and, you know, everything so they could get content for when they released everything.
42:03 And then when we went to the game to watch the Celtics and do the jersey swap with Jalen Brown
42:09 when they announced it. So those were definitely highlights of the trip and just, you know,
42:14 conversations around it just seemed like everybody was excited. I think the Celtics organization,
42:19 everybody talked to them. They were excited about the partnership and bringing the Connecticut Sun
42:24 to Boston. And I think just, I think the buzz that it's creating is good for both organizations.
42:30 Yeah, I'll say anecdotally, I was doing some press courtside when you and Jalen went to do the
42:37 jersey swap and I went to take a picture and then you guys got swarmed by so many cameras that I
42:43 just gave up because there's no way I was going to get a picture. Have you, had you met Jalen Brown
42:48 before? What was that experience like? Yeah, no, I haven't met him before in person, but it was
42:54 nice. He was real nice to talk to for that brief moment before the game, but you know, he was
43:00 focused because he, you know, still had a game to play, but it was nice to meet him. Sure. I want
43:05 to ask you more about the Celtics, but I'm going to bridge the gap. Ashley Battle works as a scout
43:10 for the Celtics and a commentator for the Sun. What's your relationship with Ashley like?
43:15 You know, I had, you know, talked to her in passing, you know, sometimes in Connecticut,
43:21 and then, you know, I talked to her a little bit on that trip. But, you know, I think she,
43:26 you know, has a great basketball mind and just to be able to bridge that gap between the Connecticut
43:30 Sun and the Celtics, I think is a big deal. And I think that's, you know, just going to
43:36 be another positive, you know, going into this partnership. Sure. So your season and the NBA
43:44 season don't always overlap too much. How much NBA do you find yourself watching?
43:49 I watch more now that I'm, you know, home, you know, during this season. Usually I'm overseas,
43:55 so it's tough to watch with the time change, you know, I got to sleep before my games and
43:59 everything. So I haven't watched too much in the past, but I definitely find myself watching a lot
44:04 more now. And I'm just watching a lot more basketball in general now with coaching and
44:08 everything. So I think I'm just more locked in and I'm seeing the game differently. I think since
44:14 I've been, you know, watching basketball to scout and everything. So I'm definitely like seeing
44:19 basketball, I'm not watching it so much as a fan. Yeah. Have you been able to catch any Celtics
44:26 games? Yeah, I have. I have definitely seen some Celtics game and they've been rocking and rolling
44:31 this year. Well, okay, so let's put you to the test. What are your professional assessments
44:36 of the Celtics this season? I mean, I think they're really good. They have solid players
44:42 in every position. I think, you know, they move the ball well and they play well together. And
44:45 I think that's going to be the key, you know, moving forward and, you know, as they, you know,
44:51 push for their playoff run. Across the board, do you have a favorite NBA hot take or storyline that
44:57 you're watching? I mean, at the moment, no, not really. Did you have a favorite team growing up?
45:10 No, I mean, I just, I was a Kevin Durant fan. So he's been moving around. So, you know,
45:17 I've been a fan of the Thunder. I'm a fan of the Warriors, but I'm definitely a fan of Kevin
45:23 Durant. So growing up, what about WNBA fandom or were you more of a college fan? WNBA, I watched a
45:33 lot of the Mystics games, just, you know, that was, you know, the home team and definitely a team that
45:37 I watched growing up. So I would say I was a Mystics fan growing up. Sure. Do you have a player
45:43 that you think you model your game after at all? After? I don't know necessarily. There's like a
45:55 WNBA player that I model my game after, but I mean, I watched a lot of Tina Charles growing up.
46:04 I think she's just, you know, an amazing player in the paint and she's hard to guard and having
46:09 to guard her myself, you know, definitely, you know, got the firsthand experience. So I definitely,
46:16 you know, have enjoyed watching her play and playing against her. Yeah. What was that experience
46:21 like when you got to the league that you have to now your colleagues or you're guarding some of the
46:25 people that you looked up to? Like, did you have any moments where you were like a little too
46:30 starstruck or what was that transition like? I wouldn't say like I had a moment where I was
46:35 starstruck in the game, but I definitely, you know, felt like a rookie out there sometimes.
46:39 Like probably one of my first games in Connecticut, I got in, I was guarding Sylvia Fowles.
46:46 I'm like, that's somebody that I've, you know, admired growing up and, you know, watching her
46:50 play and then, you know, getting out there and playing against her. It's definitely different.
46:53 You know, you're feeling why she's, you know, one of the top players in the league. And
46:58 it definitely was an eye opening experience of like where I want to go, where I want to get to.
47:03 So it was great learning experience and, you know, I've gotten better every year since. And I think
47:08 that's just, you know, part of the game. Okay. So actually that sets up, bear with me. I have to
47:14 set up this question a little bit. So I am of the mindset that part of why players hit their prime
47:21 around 26, 27, 28 is as much mental as it is like physical or just putting in the time. And there's
47:28 data around even away from sports that, you know, people in their twenties and their late twenties
47:34 are emotionally and intellectually different than people in their early twenties. And so I've made
47:39 the case that we've been too critical of Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown because just because they're
47:46 in conference finals doesn't mean that you should expect the same thing out of a 22 year old as say
47:51 a 28 or 29 year old. And I'm only 31. So I don't mean to sound ageist. Like I just
47:57 hit that prime too. I don't want to sound like an old man here, but so I've been on this case that
48:01 I think, you know, we, the Jays have been so lucky to compete at this level. So young that now really
48:09 they're only entering their prime, which is when we should really start to like consider who they
48:14 are as players. And so you are, I believe 28. And in the past few years, you've been to the all-star
48:21 game a couple of times. You won most improved player, you won sixth player of the year. So I
48:27 would make the same case that you're in your prime and you're kind of showing, okay, this is who I am.
48:31 So what do you think of my theory here? And like, what's your experience going from a younger player
48:37 to a more seasoned player? - Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that.
48:41 Cause there's something you can't teach experience. Like, you know, when you're in those moments
48:45 it's different. Like you can have the skills to be there, but like, if you're playing as a
48:51 veteran players, they're already, you know, three steps ahead of you. Cause I definitely
48:54 kind of felt like that, you know, I could be in the right spot, but like the defense has already,
48:59 they're already accounting for that. Right. So they're already, the vets already know there's
49:03 like, you know, what you're probably gonna do before you do it. So like you can do it, but if
49:07 you, you know, are already playing as people who are thinking ahead of you, then it's a different
49:12 experience. But I think, I think you have something there. I think, you know, as a younger
49:19 player coming into the league, like you can have the skills, like I said, but just, you know, that
49:24 mental piece is definitely something that, that makes or breaks, you know, the great ones from,
49:29 you know, just you're an average player, you know. - Sure. And well, thank you. While you work your
49:36 way back from injury, what is something you want to add to your game? - I definitely want to expand
49:42 my range. I think that's something that, you know, I've been working on and I definitely, I have the
49:45 time now to get in the gym and just, you know, shoot. So I think that's definitely something that
49:50 I'm trying to add to my game right now. - Okay. A couple more things, then we'll let you go.
49:55 Where are you at with the state of NBA, WNBA fandom? The television stuff, the social stuff,
50:03 all the numbers behind it seem like it's a rocket ship and people are finally understanding that
50:08 this is a very, very serious basketball league we're dealing with. As a player, do you feel like
50:13 you can feel the growth and the buzz and like the respect and the understanding from casual fans
50:19 about like what the WNBA actually is? - Absolutely. I think just, you know, in the seven years I've
50:24 been in the league, there's been a shift, you know, you can feel it, you know, when you go to games,
50:30 you can feel it on social media, just like the buzz and the attention to detail that I think,
50:34 you know, all the fans have picked up, you know, over the course of the last like four or five
50:40 years has been amazing to watch and I'm just excited to see it continue to grow. - What's
50:45 something about, so say someone is in the New England area and they haven't been to a Sun game
50:49 before, what's your favorite like fan tradition or like little tiny part of the game? Obviously,
50:54 the basketball is the best part, but what's something about going to a Sun game that you
50:58 think people would really enjoy that you just have to go see it in person? -
51:08 Your favorite Sun tradition? - Like I'll give you an answer for the Celtics. I think that they do a
51:17 really good job with the music in the game and part of it is they don't play music the whole time,
51:22 so when they do pick a song, it's like a real event. So, I mean, it helps that the Celtics
51:27 usually are winning the game, but TD Garden is like often a big dance party as much as a
51:31 basketball game. So yeah, is there anything about the Sun, like do they do good giveaways or is the
51:37 PA person funny? Like is there anything about the experience beyond basketball or it's all hoops?
51:42 - Yeah, no, I think they do a good job of engaging the fans with our PA person and
51:48 just like the video content and everything and they work the crowd and do all that. So,
51:54 I think they do a really good job of engaging the people in the crowd. - All right. Well,
52:01 Brianna Jones, I guess we'll get you out of here with this. Give us a prediction for the Celtics
52:07 and give us a prediction for the Sun for 2024. - Celtics, I mean, I think they have everything
52:15 they need. They can go all the way. I think this is their year. They've been to the conference
52:20 finals. I think they can make it to the league finals this year. And then for us, for Connecticut,
52:27 I think once we click in and get everything rolling and have everybody back this year, I think
52:34 we're final bound too. I think we had everything we needed last year. Unfortunately, I got
52:39 injured and we were still able to make it to the semifinals. So, I think we have everything we need
52:45 to here and this is our year. - This is their year. All right. Well,
52:50 if it is indeed the Sun's year, you can catch them at TD Garden in Boston, August 20th. And until
52:56 then, you can catch them down in Connecticut. Brianna, thanks for coming on the Celtics Lab
53:00 podcast. It's a lot of fun. And if we don't see you in Connecticut, maybe we'll see you up in Boston.
53:04 - Thanks. Thanks for having me.
53:07 (upbeat music)