'Why Hide That?': Michael Burgess Grills Nadler On DOJ Blocking Release Of Audio Of Biden Interview

3 months ago

At a House Rules Committee hearing on Tuesday, Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX) questioned Rep. Jerry Nadler about the audio of President Biden's

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Transcript

00:00Other thoughtful testimony today, I'll just ask a question, Representative Hageman and Chairman Comer,

00:08do you have any confidence that the actual interviews, the taped interviews, still exist?

00:19Or are those likely to have disappeared somewhere?

00:22I would assume they still exist. They should.

00:25I don't think they should, but there's obviously so much energy being expended to prevent the public from hearing these.

00:40And you have to ask yourself, why is there so much energy being—clearly it's not executive privilege.

00:46I mean, that was waived with the production of the transcribed interviews.

00:50If there's this much energy being placed to put a wall between the American public and the substance of these—or the transcripts of these—

00:59I'm sorry, the audio of these interviews, clearly there's something that they desperately want to prevent from going to the hands of the American people.

01:07Did I answer the question?

01:09Mr. Burgess, I would say something in response to that.

01:11If they don't exist, I would say that someone has actually destroyed evidence.

01:17And that would be a very serious concern if someone actually did something with those audio tapes.

01:24I also think it's very important that we clarify some of the testimony that has been provided,

01:28which is there is the repeated claim that the transcript and the audio are identical, and that's not true.

01:34And in fact, it has been admitted over the last two weeks that there are differences between the transcript and the audio that they will not release.

01:42And it's one of the reasons why we absolutely have to have that audio,

01:46because they are not identical, and anyone who claims to the contrary is being disingenuous.

01:50I agree with Chairman Coleman.

01:52Yeah, and I agree with everything she said.

01:55And another point that my colleagues to my left forgot to mention,

02:00when they said that it's the House Republicans that want these audio tapes,

02:06the Associated Press, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, Reuters, Bloomberg, and the Washington Post,

02:17as well as other mainstream media outlets, have all sued to get the recordings as well.

02:23So the American people want to see those audio recordings, in addition to the investigators in the House of Representatives.

02:32So I think that's a very important point to note.

02:37I'm sorry, Ranking Member Nadler, you had wanted to say something?

02:41Yes, I want to say a few things.

02:44The basic reason the Department doesn't want, I think, the basic reason the Department doesn't want to release the transcript

02:51is because they have good reason to believe that the Republican leadership on the Judiciary Committee would alter the transcript,

02:58as they did with the Nina Jankiewicz matter.

03:05She told us that in her deposition of April 2023, the Judiciary Committee altered,

03:13by cutting and pasting, altered the meaning of what she had said.

03:17And I assume that's the reason that the Justice Department doesn't want to release the transcript.

03:24But I would also point out that the Republicans are claiming that the DOJ waived the ability to claim executive privilege by producing the written transcripts.

03:33Legally, that's simply wrong.

03:35Audio recordings have distinct features and law enforcement uses.

03:38Release of audio would have a unique chilling effect on future DOJ investigations.

03:43Also, finding a waiver here would punish DOJ for cooperating with Congress.

03:49And I don't think we want to punish the DOJ for cooperating with Congress.

03:52I would also point out, contrary to some of the insinuations we heard from my two colleagues to my left,

04:00to my right rather, I'm sorry, God forbid to my left, my two colleagues to my right,

04:05that Mr. Herr, who is a Republican, who used to work for Bill Barr,

04:13conducted a thorough investigation and found there was no basis for

04:17charging the President with improper retention or mishandling of classified documents.

04:23Whereas, of course, the special prosecutor has indicted former President, or

04:27got a grand jury to indict former President Trump for mishandling classified documents, and he will have to go to trial.

04:33So it's a world of difference, and we should not be-

04:39I'm going to interrupt you there.

04:41It is a world of difference because President Trump was President.

04:45These documents were procured when Vice President Biden was, they were under his control.

04:54He did not have the same ability as the President to declassify these things.

04:59I'm not going to debate that with you.

05:00I will simply point out that the special prosecutor, Mr. Herr, found no basis for

05:04indicting Mr. Biden, while the special prosecutor, Mr. Smith, was afraid of the grand jury to indict Mr. Trump.

05:12By your own admission, Mr. Nadler, you said that Mr.

05:15Herr's comments, when he related the status of this interview, was that the President seemed well-meaning, but confused.

05:27And I think, and you said yourself, you characterized that.

05:32I think the American people deserve the opportunity to be able to hear that for themselves.

05:37People are smart.

05:38They can make that discernment on their own.

05:41His report made very clear that there were multiple reasons for not indicting Mr. Biden.

05:51His gratuitous comment about Mr. Biden's...

05:56I'm sorry, I'm interrupting you.

05:57I'll give you a chance to respond, but you're characterizing that as gratuitous is in and of itself gratuitous.

06:03I mean, you do not get to have that.

06:05You can judge that.

06:06I don't think it's gratuitous.

06:08His comment was gratuitous because, if you read his report, that's not why the President was not indicted.

06:18There are ample reasons given in the report for not indicting the President.

06:22And given that, not including that, and given that fact, to make that observation was gratuitous.

06:29But why not then clear the air and make the actual audio of the interview available?

06:37Why should the American people be the deciders here?

06:40Why hide that from them?

06:42People are sensitive because they were told that, say, a certain laptop was Russian disinformation

06:48and 51 members of the intelligence community signed a letter to that effect.

06:52And then it turns out, well, maybe it was not.

06:56Because the chairman of the Judiciary Committee has already been caught altering...

07:01May I respond?

07:02No, not until I finish.

07:04Has been caught altering verbal, electronic transcripts in the case of Nina Jankowicz.

07:13And we have every reason to believe, or let me retract that, we have no reason to believe

07:19that he wouldn't do so again.

07:22If I may respond.

07:23Please, I wish you would.

07:24That is absolutely untrue.

07:27Neither Jim Jordan or anybody on the Judiciary Committee made any changes to Nina Jankowicz's

07:33interview transcript.

07:34That's absolutely a false statement.

07:36There's one other point that I think needs to be clarified, which is that Special Counsel

07:39Robert Hurst stated on page one of his report, our investigation uncovered evidence that

07:45President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency

07:52when he was a vice president.

07:54The reason that he recommended against prosecuting President Biden was not a gratuitous statement.

08:01It was the reason as to why he refused to recommend prosecution.

08:06And it was that because, because, because Joe Biden is a, quote, sympathetic, well-meaning

08:14elderly man with a poor memory, Mr. Hurst was concerned that a jury would not be willing

08:19to convict.

08:21Anyone who wants to see what Mr. Hurst actually found and his explanation of what he did,

08:27you can go and you can watch the hearing before the Judiciary Committee.

08:30But one thing is very clear, and I will go back to it again.

08:34The folks on the other side of the aisle keep wanting to say the transcript and the audio

08:38are identical.

08:39There is no reason why, if you have the transcript, you're entitled to the audio.

08:44As a long-practicing attorney, they are not the same thing.

08:48The audio is the best evidence of what he said, how he said it, the time that it took

08:52for him to say it, and in what ways they may have altered that transcript.

08:56The moment that they released the transcript and said, this is the interview, they waived

09:01their ability to claim any kind of a privilege.

09:04And they don't have a legally valid privilege in addition to that.

09:08And it's for that reason that we believe that Mary Gardner needs to be held in contempt

09:12of Congress.

09:13I will agree with her.

09:14I will agree with her.

09:15I will agree.

09:16The gentleman will suspend.

09:17I firmly believe that the American people are entitled to hear this, and I'm grateful

09:22that you brought this today.

09:23I'll give you a chance to respond, Mr. Nadler, but then we need to move on to Mr.

09:26I will agree with Ms. Hageman that there is no evidence that the transcript was altered

09:31whatsoever.

09:32The transcript wasn't altered.

09:35But in Ms. Hageman, I'm sorry, Ms. Jankiewicz's case, the transcript wasn't altered, the video

09:42was altered.

09:43And that's what we're concerned about.

09:44We're not arguing the Jankiewicz case, we're arguing

09:46No, but if the Judiciary Committee

09:48The American people deserve the ability to see that and make this decision on their own.

09:53They are sick and tired of being lied to by agencies.

09:56If the Judiciary Committee was dishonest enough, the leadership, to manipulate the video in

10:03the Jankiewicz matter, it is dishonest enough to manipulate the video in this matter.

10:07And that is a good reason to withhold it.

10:10Thank you.

10:12Thank you.

10:13Ranking Member Raskin, Ranking Member Nadler, Chairman Comer, and

'Why Hide That?': Michael Burgess Grills Nadler On DOJ Blocking Release Of Audio Of Biden Interview

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