Stefan Molyneux
Stefan Molyneux
  • 5 months ago
Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!

NOW AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIBERS: MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING' - AND THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI AND AUDIOBOOK!

Also get the Truth About the French Revolution, the interactive multi-lingual philosophy AI trained on thousands of hours of my material, private livestreams, premium call in shows, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!

See you soon!

https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

"I'm diagnosed with depression and neurasthenia and it's been like that for at least 10 years. 4 years with official diagnosis. I feel tired most of the time and I'm afraid of doing things because my energy recovers extremely slowly and I need that energy to function in my everyday life.
"I don't work and I feel like 8h workdays would make my life so miserable that I wouldn't see a point in living anymore because I'm so tired. I have had moments in my life where I'm just so tired that I think "I don't want to live anymore" but I also don't want to die.
"It's been a little better in the recent months but it's not gone. The doctors haven't been much help so I'm turning to you with my problem. How can I get rid on my neurasthenia and function like everybody else?"
Transcript
00:00:00 Hi, this is Stefan Molyneux, it's a great call-in coming up and I wanted to read the message that I got.
00:00:07 We kind of dove into the conversation at breakneck speed.
00:00:10 So this is the message that I got. The topic is "I have depression and neurasthenia.
00:00:18 I'm diagnosed with depression and neurasthenia and it's been like that for at least 10 years,
00:00:22 4 years with official diagnosis. I feel tired most of the time and I'm afraid of doing things
00:00:28 because my energy recovers extremely slowly and I need that energy to function in my everyday life.
00:00:34 I don't work and I feel like 8-hour work days would make my life so miserable that I wouldn't see a point
00:00:40 in living anymore because I'm so tired. I've had moments in my life where I'm just so tired
00:00:47 that I think I don't want to live anymore but I also don't want to die.
00:00:51 It's been a little better in the recent months but not gone. The doctors haven't been much help
00:00:56 so I'm turning to you with my problem. How can I get rid of my neurasthenia and function like everybody else?"
00:01:03 So I appreciate the honesty and directness of the call. We really did jump into the deep end.
00:01:08 So here we go. Well, gosh, of course I'm sorry to hear about all of this that's going on.
00:01:13 Obviously I can't do you much in terms of physical health but if there's anything else that I can help you with
00:01:22 in terms of self-knowledge or something like that, I'm obviously thrilled to help and I have massive sympathies
00:01:28 for what's going on. So do you want to start with your childhood and see what we can take from there?
00:01:37 Oh no.
00:01:38 Yes, yes. I'm afraid so. This is where we must begin, I think, with something this deep-rooted.
00:01:44 Well, I know my childhood wasn't that great. It's better than most people but I grew up in a very unstable
00:01:52 and toxic household. It was emotionally abusive and very gaslighting.
00:02:02 I had constantly bickering parents and stuff like that. So I'm not even sure what more to talk about.
00:02:15 Why do you say that's better than most? I'm not sure what that would mean.
00:02:19 Because I know that a lot of people have had physically abusive parents and the parents that are even more
00:02:32 emotionally abusive.
00:02:35 Sorry, why would that matter relative to your emotional experience as a child?
00:02:41 We don't have these comparisons as children, right?
00:02:44 Well, yeah, bad is bad but I don't want to belittle anyone else's experience by saying,
00:02:51 "Oh, my, you're so terrible."
00:02:54 But why would your genuine experience, what would it have to do with anyone else's?
00:03:00 I mean, you could have had the second best childhood in the world, let's imagine, right?
00:03:04 And there would still be challenges and so on involved. And even people who have great childhoods
00:03:11 have trauma or have difficulties because they have to grow up in a world full of people
00:03:17 who've had terrible childhoods. And so, there aren't any great childhoods, I think, at the moment.
00:03:23 I mean, you can have great childhoods but that makes it difficult for you in life as a whole, right?
00:03:28 So, the first thing you do is sort of minimize your own suffering.
00:03:33 When you emailed me because you say, "Steph, I'm suffering," right?
00:03:39 Yeah.
00:03:40 This may not be unrelated.
00:03:43 It's definitely not unrelated and I found that out recently, like in the last few months.
00:03:52 Because what I emailed you about was that I have neurasthenia, that means chronic exhaustion
00:04:01 or chronic tiredness. I'm tired all the time. That's what basically that means.
00:04:09 And it was like that for a long, long time. I remember in middle school, I think,
00:04:18 I would come home and go straight to sleep. And even then, when I was studying,
00:04:23 I fell asleep on the table. And I only found out later that it's not normal to do that, actually.
00:04:32 Were you an only child?
00:04:35 Yes, I was an only child.
00:04:37 Right.
00:04:39 And so, it's continued like that. And in the recent years, I went to university
00:04:47 but I had a block study, so I didn't have to go and be present. I had a lot of work to do on my own.
00:04:59 And it went a little better. But now, when I got a partner and I started living with him
00:05:08 and moved out, actually, then it skyrocketed. So, I always knew that my family home was toxic,
00:05:20 but I didn't know it had such a large impact on me. Like, being there just sucked out the energy from me.
00:05:30 But yeah, I am still not fully healed.
00:05:35 Now, I assume, of course, right? I mean, you've had this, you said, since middle school,
00:05:40 and you've had the, you said the last 10 years have been fairly bad.
00:05:45 Obviously, you've taken every medical intervention or test or whatever, known to man, right?
00:05:51 And is it the case that they can't find much, if anything, that might help?
00:05:56 Actually, I only talked to a psychiatrist and psychologist. And only recently, I started to,
00:06:08 like, did a sleep study, but I don't have the results yet, because no one ever told me,
00:06:14 like, the doctors didn't tell me that, "Oh, you should, like, do a sleep study or check if
00:06:21 something's wrong with your brain or something." I don't know. I gave blood tests,
00:06:27 and they were, like, always fine. So, yeah, I haven't done anything known to man.
00:06:36 Sorry, what about as a kid? Did you get taken to doctors for checkups?
00:06:40 No.
00:06:41 Like, working?
00:06:42 No, because in my parents' eyes, it was normal to sleep that much and to be...
00:06:49 [inaudible]
00:06:59 I say, I found out that sleeping so much and, like, falling asleep on your table
00:07:10 isn't normal when I went to high school, I think. In the later years of high school,
00:07:17 I talked to my psychiatrist, no, psychologist, and just mentored him.
00:07:23 And she said, "That's not normal." Like, she explained to me that this isn't what life's supposed to be like.
00:07:36 And are you in your twenties at the moment or your thirties?
00:07:41 I'm finished. I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
00:07:48 Sorry, are you in your twenties or your thirties at the moment?
00:07:51 I'm 24.
00:07:54 24, okay. So, basically, since you were, like, 10 or so, did you have a time or did you have
00:08:01 a thought or an experience where you had more energy as a kid?
00:08:05 I can't hear you anymore, again.
00:08:07 Oh, is that right? Okay.
00:08:08 I wonder what that is.
00:08:09 That's strange. All right, hold on a sec here.
00:08:12 Now I can.
00:08:14 Yeah, all right. Sorry, just let me know. Are we getting anything at all?
00:08:23 Hear me again?
00:08:24 Yeah, I can hear you.
00:08:26 Okay, good, good. Not sure why. Exciting, exciting. All right.
00:08:30 So, basically, do you have a time in childhood when you remember having more energy?
00:08:39 Yeah, I know. After kindergarten or preschool, I think, like the first, second, third, fourth
00:08:49 grade, I would go to, I would study and then go and play outside.
00:08:57 I had energy for that. I know that. That's what I remember. But after that, I'm not sure.
00:09:08 So, there was definitely, I think, there was a time where I had more energy, but I don't
00:09:14 know why it, like, changed suddenly.
00:09:17 There's nothing sort of big and dramatic that would be obvious that would say, "Here's what
00:09:20 went wrong," right?
00:09:22 Yeah, probably.
00:09:24 Okay. And tell me a little bit about what happened as a kid in terms of being disciplined,
00:09:30 or you said there's sort of verbal abuse. So, what kind of stuff happened with you as
00:09:36 a kid in that regard?
00:09:41 That's a great question, because I tend to forget these things. Like, there was a lot
00:09:49 of yelling. I know that. I can't recall, like, specific things, but I know there was a lot
00:09:56 of yelling, then sometimes name-calling, passive-aggressive comments, maybe. And just my mom, especially,
00:10:09 was the type to, like, suddenly just say something mean. And so, I am really sensitive to people's
00:10:24 emotions, even now. So, I remember that. But I definitely was disciplined physically, too,
00:10:32 but not a lot. But a few times is also, like, really bad, and it stays with you. But other
00:10:42 than that, I can't recall.
00:10:45 The thing with the emotional abuse is that I can't really, like, put a finger on it,
00:10:54 what it is with my mother. I don't recall emotional abuse from my father that much.
00:11:01 He was just distant. But with my mother, it was always like, she would say something or
00:11:09 do something mean, and then I would be, like, upset with her and maybe talk bad things about
00:11:17 her with my friends or something. And when I got home and she was friendly again and
00:11:23 everything, I would feel so guilty that I talked bad about her, because she's actually
00:11:29 not a bad person. So, that's the pattern I remember. But other than that, I...
00:11:40 All right. So, Inga...
00:11:42 Sorry.
00:11:43 No, no, it's great. I appreciate that. Now, I just... I need specifics.
00:11:48 Okay.
00:11:50 Specifics. So, you have a lot of things that you can't really remember, right?
00:11:54 Yeah, I remember a few, like the physical disciplining.
00:11:59 Okay, so let's talk about the physical discipline, as you call it.
00:12:03 I remember one time when I was, like, it was summer and school was beginning, so we, like,
00:12:12 packed the textbooks and everything into papers. So, I don't remember what happened, but she
00:12:19 slapped me across the face. And, of course, I started crying and I was sad and it hurt.
00:12:30 And I stood up and I think she, like, realized it was over the line and then, like, opened
00:12:40 her arms to hug me. And I remember in that moment, I thought that, okay, I'm not actually
00:12:48 afraid of her, but I want to think that... I want her to think that I am, so she would,
00:12:54 like, apologize more or something like that. So, I took a step back and then she just let
00:13:00 her hands down. Her reaction was basically, like, "Fine, suit yourself." Like, I remember
00:13:09 that very well.
00:13:13 So, she hit you and then she wanted to comfort you, but you rejected her comfort because
00:13:19 you wanted her to know how upset you were?
00:13:22 Yeah, I wanted her to, like, offer me security feeling again, because she hit me.
00:13:30 Sorry, wasn't she trying to do that by giving you the hug after she hit you?
00:13:36 No, hugging someone from, like... because it's almost mandatory after a situation like
00:13:44 this, and hugging someone because you're really sorry are two different things. I saw that
00:13:50 she wasn't actually sorry.
00:13:52 And how did you know that she wasn't sorry?
00:13:55 Her face was still, like... Like I said, "Oh, come here, then. If you want a hug, come here,
00:14:03 then I will give you a hug."
00:14:04 I'm sorry, can I just ask you for a favor? You keep touching your microphone.
00:14:08 Oh, I'm sorry.
00:14:10 No, that's fine. Just it puts a rumble that's kind of distracting.
00:14:13 Okay, sorry, sorry.
00:14:14 No, that's fine. Okay, and then, of course, I guess your theory that she wasn't really
00:14:18 sorry was reinforced by the fact that when you didn't want to accept her immediate comfort,
00:14:25 she just said, "Okay, fine," right?
00:14:28 Yeah, yeah.
00:14:30 And she withdrew any sort of comfort, right?
00:14:33 Yeah, but I think I still went for a hug, and she still hugged me, but it wasn't, like,
00:14:42 I don't know, satisfying, I guess? It wasn't comforting. It didn't comfort me.
00:14:50 Got it, okay. Okay, I think I understand, and I certainly sympathize. What happened
00:14:57 with the other kinds of verbal abuse? What was said about this? What was said to you?
00:15:05 What kind of language was used?
00:15:18 I remember yelling between my mother and father themselves, and then my mother also
00:15:24 yelled at me, but I really can't recall the exact words or things she said. I know she
00:15:36 did some name-calling, because I literally wrote down them, because I knew from a very
00:15:43 early age that my mind tends to block out specific moments, so I had to write them down
00:15:51 so I could confront her with them and try to fix it. But she only laughed at that.
00:16:02 Oh, she laughed at your attempts. And when did you write them down?
00:16:06 When I was, like, 10, maybe? Something like that.
00:16:11 Right, okay. Sorry, go ahead.
00:16:16 Well, it's just that from the emotional abuse, I remember that it actually was recently when
00:16:27 I opened my phone and I had some old recordings, and I remembered that when I was a few years
00:16:35 back, I heard my mother, like, every time I heard that she starts yelling, I would start
00:16:42 recording, because I didn't remember the specifics. I wanted to be able to remember so I could
00:16:48 fix it, because every time I said to my mom that something is wrong, she would ask, "Okay,
00:16:54 what?" And I couldn't answer that. And when I listened to the recording, she was, like,
00:17:05 arguing about something with my father, and my little sister, who's, like, two or three
00:17:12 at the time, was asking, like, "Where are we going? Where are we going?" Like, they
00:17:20 were about to go somewhere outside or something. And my mother just, like, snapped at her,
00:17:26 like, "You'll see then!" Like, so mean and so angry. And I just, like, cried so much
00:17:33 when I heard that, because it hurt me so much, like, to my core, because it felt so similar.
00:17:41 Sorry, your sister, I thought you were an only child. Did I miss that?
00:17:48 Yeah, I was an only child, but for a very long time, like, most of my childhood, like,
00:17:55 until 12, I think. And then, when I was 12, my sister was born, my little sister.
00:18:04 Okay. Now, were the names used against you, but you called names?
00:18:11 Yeah, it's in Estonian, but if I translate it, it's basically "blind chicken". So, people
00:18:23 who are Estonian and are listening to the podcast sometime later, they know what I mean.
00:18:29 But, yeah, this was one, and it wasn't, like, playful, but it was, like, mean, and these
00:18:38 kinds of, like, insults.
00:18:42 Have you ever been given insults, like, stupid or worthless or useless or lazy or selfish
00:18:48 or anything like that?
00:18:50 Yeah, not stupid, I don't think I got that, but lazy, definitely, yeah. And selfish, I
00:18:59 also think I got. But, yeah, lazy, I remember I got that, like, very much. I don't think
00:19:09 it was just from my mother, but, yeah.
00:19:12 And was that, did that happen in response to something you did, or was that just whenever
00:19:17 your parents were upset? Or, you know, did you have to do something first, or did they
00:19:21 just say it?
00:19:22 I think I had to, like, not do something, basically. Like, when they ask for help and
00:19:28 I didn't want to do that, then they would call me lazy, or if I didn't want to do my
00:19:33 homework at that moment, or something like that. So, it wasn't, like, always out of the
00:19:40 blue, I think. But, yeah.
00:19:45 Got it, got it. Okay. And how often would these fights or conflicts, or how often would
00:19:53 this meanness happen?
00:19:56 I think every day. I truly think that they would happen in some form every day. Like,
00:20:04 there were, I started calling them, like, good periods of my mom, because I remember
00:20:14 when she didn't lose her job, she quit her job, and then she was home for a long time.
00:20:27 And then, after, like, some time, she was very friendly and very warm, and so I called
00:20:36 that a good time. So, there would be a few days where she would be good, so to say.
00:20:46 Okay, so, I mean, it was pretty continual abuse or hostility towards you, right? Or
00:20:51 contempt. I guess contempt is probably a better word.
00:20:54 Yeah, I think that's a better word for it.
00:20:58 Okay. And, sorry, go ahead, you were about to say?
00:21:03 Yeah, that I wasn't, like, I didn't have rights that much. I didn't get any, like,
00:21:15 responsibility for myself, I think. Like, I wasn't allowed to go to my friends' houses,
00:21:21 or go outside after school with my friends that much, or things like that. I remember
00:21:28 that.
00:21:31 Right. And did your friends, I guess your friends didn't come over either, right, to
00:21:35 your house?
00:21:36 Yeah, yeah, they didn't.
00:21:40 Right, okay. So, did you have any friends, or did you make any friends at school?
00:21:46 Yeah, I had a few. And through, like, preschool, middle school, I had quite a few. We had a
00:21:54 friend group, and I wasn't lonely or anything. And the school was, like, the best part of
00:22:01 my day. So, I really liked going to school. Of course, I didn't like getting up in the
00:22:07 morning, but my friends were at school, and this was the time I felt the best. But in
00:22:14 high school, when everyone went their own ways, I still had a few friends. So, I never
00:22:20 was, like, truly alone, I guess. Just in the recent years, when the grown-up things are
00:22:28 coming in between, and everyone is busy, then I felt a little lonely. But yeah, in the
00:22:34 middle school, I had friends.
00:22:39 And did you play any sports?
00:22:44 No, but I did go to an acting thing. It was, like, a little... In my school, there was
00:22:55 an acting class, or, like, after...
00:22:58 In fact, theater, you were theater kids.
00:23:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was part of that, and it was the most fun thing I've ever done,
00:23:07 because the people were amazing. And yeah, it was so funny being there. So yeah, I did
00:23:14 that.
00:23:15 And what about dating in your teens?
00:23:19 Yeah, I did date. I think I was about 14 and 15. When I was 14, I got into a relationship
00:23:29 with an 18-year-old man, I guess you have to say. And that didn't go very well. It was
00:23:42 not a long distance, but we still lived in different cities, so we didn't...
00:23:48 How did you meet him?
00:23:51 It was after school. There was some kind of event in the school building, and we met there
00:23:59 through mutual friends. So yeah.
00:24:02 What the hell were you doing dating an adult at 14?
00:24:06 He seemed really cool.
00:24:09 You're doing this thing to me, like I don't have a 15-year-old daughter, and you're like,
00:24:14 "Oh, yeah, well, you know, of course I had this relationship, but the only issue was
00:24:17 that it was slightly long distance." I'm like, "That's not the only issue!"
00:24:20 That wasn't the only issue, but unfortunately, at the time, I couldn't even think that something
00:24:31 was wrong.
00:24:33 He pursued you, I assume, right?
00:24:39 I guess, not that much. I mean, we communicated back and forth a lot of times, but if I think
00:24:50 back, then yeah, I think he was a little bit more... Yeah, he pursued me a little more
00:25:01 than I did him, I guess. But I really liked him.
00:25:05 Did he know, didn't friends, parents, did anybody know?
00:25:10 Yeah, everyone knew. No one even better than I.
00:25:17 So your parents knew as well?
00:25:19 Yeah, I invited him.
00:25:28 I'm sorry, you just cut out for a second there. You invited him.
00:25:32 Yeah, I invited him over sometimes, I think. Maybe I didn't, but I know that my mother
00:25:40 met him, definitely, my father too, because he and two of his friends that I also was
00:25:46 friends with made a surprise birthday party for me.
00:25:51 Okay, well, I'm sorry, do you have any feelings about this? You're just talking to me like
00:25:57 you're reading off a laundry list, like, "Yes, well, you know, I was 14, he was an adult."
00:26:01 That was so long ago. I don't feel used or anything. I just think it's weird that maybe
00:26:11 no one better than I. I don't know how to feel about it. I'm not resentful or anything.
00:26:18 I don't carry any trauma. I don't think so, at least from not that age difference.
00:26:26 Okay, I'm sorry, was it a sexual relationship as well?
00:26:30 No, there was touching and this kind of stuff, but it never went that far, because even in
00:26:39 my young teenage mind, I was like, "Okay, that would be too far."
00:26:45 Okay.
00:26:46 So, yeah, I was the one that would align there. But yeah, we were in a relationship like half
00:26:55 an hour, and then he died. Sorry, I did the laughing thing. But yeah, I just don't know
00:27:01 how to react to that, because everyone always is like, "Oh, no, you poor thing." And I don't
00:27:09 really think I'm…
00:27:11 Okay, so was he died because he was killed by your father? Because that would be my…
00:27:15 No, I'm kidding. So, what happened? How did he die?
00:27:20 I dumped him through text and he went missing. He just walked off at one point, and then
00:27:29 they found him drowned. So, it was like a week later after I dumped him. But to be honest,
00:27:38 I didn't feel much about his death.
00:27:41 Okay, so sorry, I don't want to put connections here that aren't there.
00:27:45 Okay.
00:27:46 But is it your perception that you broke up with him and he killed himself?
00:27:51 It might be a possibility.
00:27:57 I mean, it's pretty close together, isn't it?
00:28:00 Yeah, it is close together. But I also know that he couldn't swim, so he also just might
00:28:07 have…
00:28:08 Well, then just stay away from the water.
00:28:09 Well, maybe, yeah.
00:28:10 I mean, there's lots of people who can't swim and I can't fly a plane, so I don't fly planes.
00:28:16 Yeah, well, he might have. But yeah, it's actually, if I think about it, then the thing
00:28:24 is that he always like… He didn't threaten to kill himself, but he always said things
00:28:31 like, "Oh, that in a few years when you're 18, then I will come to your birthday and
00:28:38 in two days I will die." And I will say, "No, I won't let you. What do you mean?"
00:28:43 And he said, "No, it would be already be done or something."
00:28:49 Okay, what, what, sorry, you keep dropping these things like they make sense. I don't
00:28:54 know what that means. So, and I'm sorry, you do keep touching something with the microphone.
00:28:59 It keeps going in my ear.
00:29:01 I'm sorry.
00:29:02 So, are you saying that when you were dating him, he would say, "Well, you turn 18, I'll
00:29:06 come to your birthday party and then I'll be dead two days later."
00:29:10 Basically, yeah.
00:29:11 I don't know what that… I mean, why would he say that? What is this?
00:29:14 I don't know.
00:29:15 Does he mean, "I'm going to kill myself when I'm 22 and you're 18," or like, "I
00:29:19 don't know what this means."
00:29:21 I don't know what that meant. Like, he would just say these things and that I didn't
00:29:26 ask what it meant because in my young mind, I was like, "Oh no, I need to help him.
00:29:32 I need to prevent that. I can't lose him."
00:29:36 So, I didn't ask what it meant, but he always told me he can see like, "entity,"
00:29:43 like something supernatural.
00:29:45 So, I was, I don't know.
00:29:48 It was not a good relationship.
00:29:50 He was very manipulative, I think.
00:29:53 So, what else happened in the relationship that was negative?
00:29:59 He touched me and I wasn't really for it, but I came around.
00:30:08 Let's just say that.
00:30:09 So, do you mean like, passionately, that sort of way?
00:30:14 Yeah, like in a sexual way.
00:30:16 Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.
00:30:18 Yeah, that was something.
00:30:20 Then, I don't really recall much else.
00:30:26 I know that he manipulated me because I was 14, 15 and he was 18.
00:30:34 18, that's right.
00:30:36 If you're going to give you a year, you have to give him a year, right?
00:30:39 Yeah, yeah.
00:30:40 And how was he manipulative?
00:30:42 He always told me that, well, he can see entities and supernatural things and he
00:30:49 knows when things are going to happen.
00:30:51 That was one thing.
00:30:52 And the other thing was that he knows human behavior.
00:30:56 He's read a psychology book and he's really into psychology, so he knows when I
00:31:01 want something or what I want or what I'm thinking and things like that.
00:31:05 And what do you mean by entities?
00:31:09 The ghosts and devils?
00:31:11 The way he explained it was like that everything, like living or not living, has
00:31:20 like a soul, I think.
00:31:22 I don't know.
00:31:23 It was weird.
00:31:25 So, he was insane?
00:31:26 Yeah.
00:31:27 No, no, I don't want to laugh about this because it's pretty serious stuff.
00:31:31 Yeah, I know.
00:31:32 But he's schizophrenic?
00:31:33 Did he have visions?
00:31:34 I don't – it's hard to say, of course, so many years later, but it's not that
00:31:39 many as 10 years since you met him.
00:31:42 But was he like crazy?
00:31:48 His behavior wasn't crazy.
00:31:51 Well, unless it was suicide, which is pretty dysfunctional.
00:31:55 Well, yeah.
00:31:57 But I can't recall if the birthday testing was a vision that he had or if it was
00:32:05 something just he told me.
00:32:08 But he was wrong because he said he's going to die two days after your 18th
00:32:11 birthday and he may have killed himself when you were 15, right?
00:32:14 So, he was wrong.
00:32:16 No, he was wrong with very many things and I realized that like halfway into our
00:32:22 relationships that no, he's not that – he doesn't know that much about human
00:32:28 behavior and stuff.
00:32:31 So, what was it that had you break up with him?
00:32:36 I grew very distant from him because he worked during summer and I couldn't – I
00:32:46 didn't get to communicate with him that much and I didn't have that deep feelings
00:32:55 for him anymore.
00:32:57 I think it was something like that.
00:32:59 The long distance killed the relationship for me, I think.
00:33:04 So, okay.
00:33:06 And so, it wasn't like his family knew your family or anybody.
00:33:09 If he was so long distance, what was he doing at your school function?
00:33:13 Mutual friends.
00:33:15 Like, I don't know how they met him.
00:33:18 But –
00:33:19 I mean, if mutual friends say, "Why don't you come to a high school full of kids
00:33:24 for some social engagement?"
00:33:26 I'd be like, "Why am I going to a high school full of kids?
00:33:28 I want to go to a high school full of junior high."
00:33:30 Like, what's he doing at the high school?
00:33:32 Unless, I guess, he liked younger girls, right?
00:33:36 He was actually performing.
00:33:38 Like, the mutual friends had a performance and he was like part of it.
00:33:44 It was something like that.
00:33:46 The event was multiple performances and my friend group was like one of them.
00:33:51 So, he was there.
00:33:54 So, he had like a purpose to be there, not just to lurk around.
00:33:59 Okay.
00:34:00 So, you go out with him for six months.
00:34:02 It's kind of distant.
00:34:03 He's a bit creepy and weird, if I understand it correctly.
00:34:07 And then you text him and you say, "I don't want to go out anymore."
00:34:12 Is that right?
00:34:13 Yeah.
00:34:14 "I want to break up and please don't contact me anymore.
00:34:17 I'm not changing my decision."
00:34:20 Right.
00:34:21 Yeah.
00:34:22 Was that the first time you had said, "I want to end it"?
00:34:25 Or was it a slower kind of breakup or had you broken up and made up before?
00:34:30 No, it was the first time and I think for him it like came out of the blue.
00:34:35 Yeah, I guess he thinks everything is fine because all of the – he's told him everything was fine.
00:34:40 Yeah.
00:34:41 Got it.
00:34:42 Those helpful entities.
00:34:43 Oh, it was great.
00:34:44 Yeah.
00:34:45 Okay.
00:34:46 So, he had a death side to him, right?
00:34:50 Like talking about dying after your 18th birthday.
00:34:52 Yeah.
00:34:53 He was like – I think it's safe to say that he was actually depressed.
00:34:58 Yeah, yeah.
00:34:59 I think that's probably fair to say.
00:35:02 Yeah.
00:35:03 So, death and I think you can call it suicide ideation.
00:35:08 Yeah, yeah.
00:35:09 The effects of death, right?
00:35:10 The death impulse, the thanatos, right?
00:35:12 Okay.
00:35:13 Yeah.
00:35:14 So, I think he was like into that.
00:35:16 And your parents met him, you said, right?
00:35:19 Yes.
00:35:20 And I even invited him to my grandparents' house, like my grandma's house in the countryside
00:35:29 and spent like a week with him there.
00:35:33 So, he was like living for a week with me and my mom.
00:35:37 Oh, so he spent a week at your grandparents' with you?
00:35:39 Yeah, me, my grandmother, grandma's partner and my mom were there.
00:35:46 Okay.
00:35:47 So, your mom had a real chance to evaluate this guy, right?
00:35:49 Yes.
00:35:50 And did she ever –
00:35:51 She really liked him.
00:35:52 Sorry, go ahead.
00:35:53 She really liked him.
00:35:55 God, these are terrible people.
00:35:57 Yes, I know.
00:35:59 Sorry.
00:36:00 Well, but the funny thing is, like you have no emotion about any of this.
00:36:04 Yes.
00:36:05 So, I don't know how to help people who don't have any emotions.
00:36:11 Because then we're just like, dum-di-dum, this bad thing happened and then this guy
00:36:15 statutorily molested me because I was 14 and he was an adult.
00:36:19 And then, you know, he probably killed himself and da-da-da, my parents are terrible people.
00:36:23 You know, like I don't know if there's no emotional connection.
00:36:26 I'm not sure what we're doing here other than avoiding your life.
00:36:29 Yes.
00:36:31 You feel nothing about any of this, right?
00:36:33 There might be a few.
00:36:35 You feel nothing really about any of this?
00:36:39 I think we're barking up the wrong tree, to be honest.
00:36:42 Because the topic with my ex-boyfriend and his death has always been like a colder one for me.
00:36:51 Like when it just happened, it was like, it affected me.
00:36:56 But now I don't think it's that much.
00:36:59 But at the moment, my life has other things, I think.
00:37:05 You said that you've been really tired for 10 years in your email, right?
00:37:11 Yes.
00:37:12 Okay, you're 24.
00:37:14 Yes.
00:37:15 When did you start dating your boyfriend?
00:37:19 When I was 14.
00:37:20 How many years ago?
00:37:22 Oh, 10.
00:37:24 I mean, maybe it's a coincidence, maybe.
00:37:26 But, you know, everyone says, "Oh, Steph, I know you've done this thousands of times really, really well,
00:37:30 but you're probably wrong about this one."
00:37:32 Oh, yeah.
00:37:34 I mean, I'm not going wild here, right?
00:37:36 I'm not just making things up or stabbing randomly.
00:37:39 Yeah.
00:37:41 Well, I've always thought that my mother is the main reason I'm tired.
00:37:47 Like dealing with her emotions is too demanding.
00:37:54 And so I was barking maybe up the wrong tree.
00:37:58 So, okay.
00:38:00 So you're calling me because you think I have some skill or expertise in this area of connections
00:38:07 and emotions and so on, right?
00:38:10 Yeah, I want another perspective or...
00:38:13 Okay, so...
00:38:14 Actually, this helps me because I...
00:38:17 Just for the purposes of this call, though, I think you need to surrender a little bit to the expertise, right?
00:38:26 Like if I go to the dentist, I don't argue with my dentist, right?
00:38:29 Yeah.
00:38:31 It's not a good thing to do.
00:38:34 So you may be expending a lot of effort in self-control as opposed to surrendering to something or someone else.
00:38:42 Like for me, I surrendered to philosophy, and of course, my wife has great authority with me,
00:38:48 and so life's just easier, right?
00:38:51 Okay.
00:38:52 And so this is not foundationally about your ex-boyfriend who was a creep and a weirdo and possibly insane.
00:39:06 And as you say, depressed and, you know, it seems almost for certain that he killed himself.
00:39:11 To me, I don't know.
00:39:12 I don't know.
00:39:13 And, you know, a guy who's fondling the... an adult male who's fondling the genitals of a 14-year-old girl,
00:39:22 the fact that he killed himself, I don't view as anything negative to the universe whatsoever.
00:39:28 Yeah.
00:39:29 I'm just telling you straight up as a human being and as a father in particular.
00:39:35 It's not quite good riddance, but it's certainly not like, "Oh, dear. Oh, dear."
00:39:39 Yeah, I mean, the thing is that this, like, sexual molesting wasn't first in my life,
00:39:48 so maybe that's why I don't... because I kind of enjoyed it, maybe.
00:39:55 Well, that doesn't matter.
00:39:57 Yeah, but I had, like, in my childhood...
00:40:01 I mean, children like candy, too. That doesn't mean that it's good for them, right?
00:40:04 Yeah.
00:40:05 So what happened before with regards to this?
00:40:08 This topic, yeah.
00:40:11 When I was very little, like, my mother would drop me off at my grandma's house in the summer and like that.
00:40:24 And then I didn't realize anything.
00:40:27 I was just there with my cousin, and we were with friends and had a lot of fun.
00:40:33 But my grandma's partner, I think I can safely say that he's a pedophile, because he said really weird things to me.
00:40:47 Also commented that I am sexy, like, to a child that's not even 10.
00:40:53 I can't remember how old I was.
00:40:56 Then he would slap my ass to the point where I had to turn to face him while going past him.
00:41:11 But his hands were so long that he would still slap me.
00:41:15 So I felt really unsafe.
00:41:20 Well, that's more than a feeling. You were really unsafe.
00:41:23 Yeah.
00:41:24 You were in grave, grave danger.
00:41:26 Yeah.
00:41:29 So, yeah.
00:41:30 And did your grandmother ever know about this?
00:41:34 I don't know, because the slapping, I think my grandmother saw it because he did it publicly.
00:41:44 Not publicly outside, but in the house, like in the kitchen.
00:41:49 So he could do it when she was around.
00:41:51 Yeah. And I know it because my mother once saw it and she flipped out and intervened.
00:42:00 And actually, I remember the exact feeling I had.
00:42:05 It was a surprise.
00:42:07 Like, "I was back home."
00:42:08 Oh, was she doing something helpful?
00:42:10 Yeah, that she was actually protecting me.
00:42:13 I was so surprised that she was actually protecting me.
00:42:17 So, yeah, that was it.
00:42:20 But I remember one time that I was in a room with him and sitting on the bed.
00:42:27 And for some reason, the lights were off, but you could see a little light from the corridor.
00:42:34 And he said, I can't even remember what he was telling me, but I think he said he loves me and something.
00:42:45 And while other times I didn't even sense like, oh no, this is wrong or something, I was just uncomfortable.
00:42:55 Then this was the moment where every cell in my body wanted to run from that room.
00:43:02 But since he was an adult and nothing had happened, I just sat there.
00:43:10 So luckily, in a few minutes, my grandma came into the room and asked innocently, "Oh, what are you doing here?"
00:43:21 Like, "What are you two doing here?"
00:43:23 And the partner said that, "Oh, we just are having our own conversations."
00:43:29 And I just quickly stood up and walked to my grandma and then passed her to exit the room.
00:43:38 So I've always carried that. I've always remembered that, even if other things are like slowly coming back to me.
00:43:47 And that's something that's how I know that this is not a good person.
00:43:55 So, yeah, that was scary.
00:43:59 So he was like, I love you and all of that. And that's when you really freaked out, right?
00:44:06 Actually, even not that he loved me, but he was telling me in a way that he wanted a response.
00:44:14 He wanted me to respond to him, "Oh, I love you too," or something.
00:44:18 I remember one time he was crying and said that he loved me.
00:44:22 So he was like guilting me to saying that I love him too.
00:44:27 But I didn't. I said, "Oh, yeah, I have like three little love eggs for you," or something like that.
00:44:33 So like a child mind, I didn't want him to cry, but I didn't want to tell him that I love him because I didn't.
00:44:44 Wow. Okay. Well, of course.
00:44:48 Yeah. So that's what I remember about that at the moment.
00:44:55 Yeah, there were some other things, but the bottom line is that it wasn't safe at home.
00:45:02 It wasn't actually safe in my grandma's house, but at least in my grandma's house,
00:45:08 no one abused me emotionally and I had my best friend with me there.
00:45:16 Wow. And this was your mother's mother?
00:45:20 Yes.
00:45:22 And after all of this and after your mother knew about all of this, did you still keep going to your grandmother's house?
00:45:32 Yes.
00:45:34 So your mother was serving you up. Did she know he was creepy or evil?
00:45:40 Like I said, she saw the slapping thing.
00:45:45 Yeah.
00:45:46 And now, a few days ago, actually, I found out that she didn't know anymore.
00:45:55 She thought that, "Okay, I intervened and now everything is fine."
00:46:00 But a few days ago, I told her everything I could remember, and then she said, "Ew, that's disgusting."
00:46:08 Like, yeah, not a big reaction maybe that you should give your child if she's been molested or something,
00:46:22 but yeah, I take from that that she didn't know.
00:46:32 She didn't know.
00:46:34 But check, if she sees this creep around slapping your butt and so on and she's outraged about it,
00:46:38 then she knows you're in danger, right?
00:46:42 Well, in theory, you would think so, yeah.
00:46:46 Right.
00:46:48 But not that time.
00:46:50 Right, okay.
00:46:55 So, do you know a lot of times, I don't know obviously for sure, but you know a lot of times why this pedophile,
00:47:05 your step-grandfather or something like that?
00:47:09 Yeah, something like that.
00:47:12 Were they married?
00:47:15 No, and he wanted me to call him grandfather, but I never did.
00:47:20 I didn't want to call him uncle.
00:47:23 The question is, if he's the kind of hideous human being who's sexually attracted to children,
00:47:29 why would he be with your grandmother, right?
00:47:36 So, there is a terrible bargain, I don't obviously know for sure,
00:47:39 but there's a terrible bargain that happens in some relationships where the man provides financial security to a woman
00:47:45 and in return the woman consciously or unconsciously delivers children to his unholy appetites.
00:47:52 Oh, good. I think my grandma was richer than him, but he was like very charming.
00:47:58 Yeah, it could be non-monetary, it could be emotional companionship, that kind of thing, right?
00:48:03 Yeah, of course.
00:48:06 Because I just think he has some control over my grandmother.
00:48:13 My grandmother had my mom already, and I think my mom was grown up when she met the uncle or the partner,
00:48:28 but I'm not sure if I was born yet.
00:48:33 I might have been, but I'm not sure if I was, nor my cousin.
00:48:38 Right, okay.
00:48:41 So, I don't think if that kind of trade was going on there, but...
00:48:46 Well, it may not have involved you alone, obviously there would have been other kids around, right?
00:48:52 There was just me and my cousin.
00:48:56 Okay, and what's your cousin's age?
00:49:00 22, 23, something like that.
00:49:07 He was a year and a half younger than me.
00:49:11 So, your grandmother knew, but didn't do anything?
00:49:15 I think she just turned a blind eye or denied it.
00:49:18 And your mother knew, did something, but never followed up, and still sent you over there?
00:49:23 I mean, as you say, your creepy adult boyfriend was over with you and your grandmother for a week, right?
00:49:36 Yes.
00:49:37 Please tell me you had separate rooms.
00:49:40 Yeah, we did. My mother didn't allow us to sleep together, but I would say that it was ineffective,
00:49:50 because I was still, to the late hours of the night, I was with him in his room privately.
00:50:01 So, yeah, it was very ineffective that we couldn't sleep together.
00:50:07 Right, right, okay.
00:50:09 But yeah, that was where she drew the line.
00:50:14 And did your father, your father met him, I guess, more briefly,
00:50:18 and did your father have any suspicion of the sexual activity this adult was engaging in with his 14-year-old daughter?
00:50:27 I actually can't remember my father at all in that context.
00:50:34 Like, I don't know how much he knew about that relationship.
00:50:39 I do think he knew that I was in a relationship, but I don't know if he even knew the age of that man.
00:50:46 Right, okay.
00:50:48 Like I said, he was quite distant in my teenage years, and I think almost to the adult years.
00:51:00 Right, okay.
00:51:02 Okay.
00:51:05 So, you're 15, and your boyfriend, who can't swim, goes into a river.
00:51:14 Yeah.
00:51:15 Right.
00:51:16 And what happens with, I mean, I wouldn't even call that dating, that's just straight up molestation and exploitation as far as I'm concerned.
00:51:24 But what happened after that with regards to your romantic life?
00:51:32 I went into a relationship like a month later with one of his friends.
00:51:38 So, you're basically telling me this story doesn't get any better at all, right?
00:51:42 It just keeps getting worse.
00:51:44 The friend was like 14 and I was 15.
00:51:47 Oh, okay, so at least he wasn't an adult.
00:51:50 Yes, yes, yes.
00:51:51 And that was like much healthier, and I feel that it was like much healthier.
00:51:58 He was also very, like, not even manipulative, but just a liar, but still, it was healthier.
00:52:08 Okay, and how long did that last for?
00:52:11 Half a year, like six months.
00:52:14 Right, and what happened there?
00:52:17 Like in the relationship or why it ended?
00:52:20 Well, you said he was a liar, although not as toxic and insane, I assume, as the other guy.
00:52:27 But what happened to end it, right?
00:52:31 I guess you were sort of 15 or 16.
00:52:33 I kind of caught him in a lie, and then he ghosted me for like a few days, and then I called his mother.
00:52:44 And he basically said, "Don't call this number anymore and hang up."
00:52:49 So I knew it was over.
00:52:51 But then, like the next day or the day after, he wrote to me that, "I'm sorry, I thought you would be mad.
00:53:00 I didn't have the courage to tell you that I want to break up."
00:53:04 Boy, that's a chilling imitation of this guy.
00:53:10 Like the contempt, the, "Oh, I'm so sorry."
00:53:14 "Oh, that's cold." I'm not saying it's wrong.
00:53:17 I'm just saying I'm getting like this body chill just from that imitation.
00:53:21 I'm sorry.
00:53:22 No, no, don't apologize.
00:53:23 I mean, I'm sure he deserved it.
00:53:25 Yeah, listening to women imitate men sometimes makes my testosterone level drop, but that's fine.
00:53:32 I'll just go exercise and it'll go back up.
00:53:34 But yeah, that's quite intense.
00:53:38 Okay, so, but you didn't want to get back together, is that right?
00:53:43 No, he left me.
00:53:45 I begged him.
00:53:47 No, no, but he wanted you to come back, right?
00:53:49 No, he wanted to break up.
00:53:53 Oh, sorry, I thought he ghosted you and then he wanted to get back.
00:53:59 No, he just said that he didn't have the courage to tell me that he wanted to break up.
00:54:06 I'm sorry, you're going to have to rewind me through this.
00:54:09 I've lost the thread.
00:54:10 Okay, so you caught him in a lie and then he ghosted you, right?
00:54:14 Yes.
00:54:16 Okay, and then the next day?
00:54:17 I called his mother.
00:54:18 You called his mother, yeah?
00:54:19 Yeah, his mother gave him the phone and he said, "Don't contact this phone anymore and hang up."
00:54:26 Right, and then?
00:54:27 I was very sad and knew it was over.
00:54:30 Then he texted me through Facebook and said that, "I am sorry, I didn't have the courage to tell you that I want to break up, but we can still be like friends."
00:54:44 Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, got it, the "still be friends" thing.
00:54:46 So, it was, yeah.
00:54:47 Okay, and after that?
00:54:49 After that, I went to class.
00:54:53 No, no, I'm sorry, after that relationship as a whole, did you date again for a while or was it soon?
00:54:58 No, actually, it was seven years before my current partner.
00:55:02 It was a long time.
00:55:05 I did want to date, but I just didn't find anyone, but it was a long time.
00:55:11 Right, and you didn't come close to dating or was it like maybe, maybe or just nobody?
00:55:19 I thought it was nobody, because I thought that nobody wanted me, but when I talked my experiences with my partner, he said, "Oh, he wanted you, he was up for it."
00:55:35 So, I guess it was just like I wasn't feeling it.
00:55:41 Okay, yeah, yeah.
00:55:42 I didn't find someone that I wanted a relationship with.
00:55:46 Okay, so then in your early 20s, you meet your current partner and how did you meet him?
00:55:52 Through a mutual friend.
00:55:54 We played board games and he said that the first night he really liked me and after that, we almost coincidentally saw each other at an event.
00:56:12 After that, I went to his and his friend's place to play board games and then we just chatted through Discord and it went on from that.
00:56:24 Right.
00:56:25 I haven't seen a picture of you, that's fine, but how pretty would you say that you are?
00:56:31 I know it's always easy to say, "Well, friends tell me," but you know, everybody kind of has a sense of things, right?
00:56:36 Yeah.
00:56:37 Can I ask the reason you're asking?
00:56:42 Maybe I can pinpoint what aspect you're looking for.
00:56:46 Sure.
00:56:47 Well, you say that you're sort of exhausted all the time and can't have a job and have no energy and so on, right?
00:56:55 Yeah.
00:56:56 Now, I mean, you're a very nice young lady and it's great to chat and all of that, but if a man is looking for a wife, the mother of his children, you know, somebody to run the household,
00:57:06 I mean, you wouldn't be top of the list, right?
00:57:08 Because you have energy issues, right?
00:57:10 Yeah.
00:57:11 I mean, he didn't know it was that serious at the beginning.
00:57:18 Sorry, how would he know?
00:57:20 We talked.
00:57:21 I told him, like, the second time we met that I have neurasthenia.
00:57:26 It's a chronic exhaustion.
00:57:28 Well, no, sorry, but how would he know how serious it is if you don't tell him?
00:57:34 That's a good point.
00:57:36 No, he doesn't know I've had my appendix out.
00:57:39 Well, how would he know?
00:57:41 Okay, yeah.
00:57:43 So did you, hey, young lady, did you minimize your condition to get the guy?
00:57:49 I always try not to, but I always minimize the things.
00:57:55 You said he didn't know.
00:57:56 I'm not, you know, hey, I mean, all's fair in love and war.
00:57:59 I'm just curious.
00:58:02 I don't think so.
00:58:04 Well, then what didn't he know?
00:58:06 Because you're the only person who could tell him, right?
00:58:09 Yeah.
00:58:10 And you'd already been tired for like, what, eight years or something, right?
00:58:15 Eight years, yeah.
00:58:16 Very badly, right?
00:58:17 So what did you tell him versus what he didn't know?
00:58:22 Like, what didn't he know?
00:58:23 I told him that I can, like, work two hours a day, and that's my limit.
00:58:30 And that I am always tired.
00:58:35 But when we started living together, I realized that even, like, chores at home are difficult for me.
00:58:43 So that was the thing that he didn't know.
00:58:46 Okay, so why is he with you?
00:58:49 And I'm not saying you're not a wonderful person.
00:58:51 I'm sure that you are.
00:58:52 Yeah.
00:58:53 Why would he shack up with a chronically ill and fatigued woman?
00:59:02 I had a big ass.
00:59:04 You have a big ass?
00:59:05 Yes, these are his words.
00:59:08 Okay.
00:59:09 Whatever fetish he might have for the Brazilian butt lift.
00:59:13 I mean, that's not particularly great, right?
00:59:15 That's not going to make you feel much loved?
00:59:18 Actually, he told me that I was like the fourth single woman he had met in years.
00:59:29 Fourth single woman he's met in years?
00:59:32 In years, yes.
00:59:33 I don't know what that means.
00:59:34 Is he your age?
00:59:36 He's three years older than me.
00:59:39 Okay.
00:59:41 So that was one thing.
00:59:44 And when we were at the board game night, he liked my personality too.
00:59:50 I wasn't like...
00:59:51 No, no, listen, I get the personality thing.
00:59:53 I mean, you're very charming and a great conversationalist.
00:59:55 I get the personality thing, and I'm certainly not trying to take anything away from that.
01:00:00 Yeah, that's what he said.
01:00:02 No, no, but that's what friends are for.
01:00:05 No, seriously.
01:00:06 I mean, maybe you don't get to grab the grabtastic butt or anything like that.
01:00:10 But that's what friends are for.
01:00:12 He likes your personality.
01:00:13 Does he want to have kids?
01:00:15 Yeah, he does.
01:00:17 So what's he doing?
01:00:20 He's trying to help me.
01:00:22 No, but he can't help you.
01:00:23 How can he help you?
01:00:25 Trying to fix it.
01:00:27 How can he fix it?
01:00:29 You don't even know what the problem is.
01:00:33 I don't know.
01:00:35 No, but it's an important question, right?
01:00:37 Okay, let me ask you this, right?
01:00:39 Do you want to have kids at some point in your life?
01:00:41 Yeah, I do.
01:00:43 Okay, so you want kids, and you want your kids to be happy.
01:00:48 So you have a son.
01:00:50 You love your son.
01:00:51 He's a great kid.
01:00:52 He grows up, and he says, "Mom, I've met this girl.
01:00:57 She's fun, but she passes out regularly.
01:01:01 She can't do any chores.
01:01:04 She's exhausted all the time.
01:01:06 She can't work.
01:01:08 Should I move in with her?"
01:01:13 I would leave the decision up to him, but I would rather advise him against it.
01:01:19 No, you don't have that option because you're a parent.
01:01:22 Your parents didn't give you any good advice, but that's no excuse for you.
01:01:29 So you're a mother.
01:01:30 Your son comes to you and says, "I've met this woman.
01:01:34 I'm not going to show you a picture of her butt because my phone is only so big.
01:01:39 So she's fun, but she's got a really messed up family, and she was molested repeatedly
01:01:48 to some degree as a child.
01:01:50 She has massive health issues that nobody can figure out.
01:01:53 She can't do any chores.
01:01:55 You're in no state to have kids, right?
01:01:58 Is that right?
01:01:59 At the moment, yeah.
01:02:01 At the moment, it's been for the last 10 years in terms of energy levels, not in terms of
01:02:05 whether you should or shouldn't have kids, but in terms of energy levels, right?
01:02:08 Yeah, but my energy levels are getting better a little.
01:02:13 But yeah, I'm not nearly there where I could have kids at the moment.
01:02:19 Okay, and there's no path to that, right?
01:02:24 Like if you said, "Oh, yes, I've been to see an expert, and I don't know, thyroid seems
01:02:30 to have something to do with energy.
01:02:31 I'm no doctor.
01:02:32 I don't understand any of it, but there's this thyroid condition.
01:02:35 I take these pills, and my energy is solved," or whatever, right?
01:02:39 But none of that has been happening, right?
01:02:41 Yeah.
01:02:42 I recently did a sleep study, and I don't know the results yet.
01:02:48 So maybe something.
01:02:49 But it's been 10 years, right?
01:02:51 It's been 10 years, and you've been an adult now for six years, right?
01:02:56 Yes.
01:02:58 Okay, so you've been an adult for six years.
01:03:01 Have you had a full blood panel done?
01:03:03 Have you had a full workup done?
01:03:05 Have you had all of your minerals and nutrition and various things checked?
01:03:11 I think so, yeah, mostly my heart, my blood, my physical.
01:03:16 Okay, so you don't know what the problem is.
01:03:20 Yes.
01:03:21 And maybe the energy is getting a little better, but even if the energy is getting a little
01:03:25 better, you still can't do much, right?
01:03:34 I mean, that's your email.
01:03:35 That's why I gave you the call the same day, right?
01:03:37 Because it seemed quite important, right?
01:03:39 You said you've had trouble.
01:03:41 I can't push myself.
01:03:42 No, listen.
01:03:43 You said in your email, "I'm having trouble finding the will to live."
01:03:48 Did I have that wrong?
01:03:51 No.
01:03:53 Okay, so what are you minimizing for me?
01:03:56 You can't say, "Staff, I have no energy and I can't find the will to live," and then say,
01:04:03 "It's not bad.
01:04:05 I'm getting better."
01:04:08 I just want to have hope.
01:04:10 I'm sorry?
01:04:11 It goes away.
01:04:13 Listen, I understand that.
01:04:16 I hope that for you, too.
01:04:18 I really do.
01:04:21 Let's get back to you and your son.
01:04:24 Okay.
01:04:25 All right?
01:04:26 I'm not trying to do anything to harm your relationship at all.
01:04:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:04:29 I'm just trying to understand where your life is.
01:04:32 Okay.
01:04:33 Your son comes to you and says, "There's this woman who has a mysterious ailment, wherein
01:04:41 she's kind of crippled," right?
01:04:43 That's fair to say, in terms of getting things done in life, right?
01:04:47 Well, yeah.
01:04:48 Okay.
01:04:49 "We have no idea if she can ever really have children, given her energy levels.
01:04:56 She can't really do any chores and she can't have a job, and she can't go to school.
01:05:02 Mom, should I move in with her?"
01:05:04 No.
01:05:05 Okay.
01:05:06 Now, why?
01:05:07 He would say, "No, no, but she's really nice."
01:05:10 But is that what you want for your future?
01:05:14 Do you want to have kids?
01:05:17 So, this is my question.
01:05:21 Yeah.
01:05:24 I have told you.
01:05:25 How long have you guys been living together?
01:05:28 A few months.
01:05:30 Right.
01:05:33 Is it fair to him and his life goals at the moment?
01:05:40 Maybe not.
01:05:42 Well, I don't know.
01:05:43 Listen, I don't know, because I'm trying to figure out.
01:05:46 I don't know, obviously, what's wrong with you.
01:05:48 I'm no doctor.
01:05:49 I'm no psychiatrist.
01:05:50 I'm no, right?
01:05:51 So, I don't know.
01:05:52 But if I look at the times…
01:05:54 Sorry, go ahead.
01:05:56 He has actually told me that if I don't get rid of my neurasthenia, then he would have
01:06:06 to break up with me, because he wants a big house and he wants kids.
01:06:12 And he's aware that I can't…
01:06:14 So, what's he doing?
01:06:16 What's he doing, moving in with you, saying that the condition nobody knows how to solve
01:06:22 is a deal-breaker?
01:06:32 He…
01:06:39 I don't know.
01:06:41 And is somebody whose judgment is not…
01:06:44 And listen, I'm not trying to say you won't make someone a great wife.
01:06:47 I'm not trying to say you won't make your kids a great mother or anything like that.
01:06:51 But does this guy have the kind of judgment that's going to make him a good father?
01:06:59 So, who suggested that you move in together?
01:07:05 It kind of happened.
01:07:06 No, no, no.
01:07:07 Come on.
01:07:08 Like, he…
01:07:09 I think it was him.
01:07:10 I…
01:07:11 Yeah, we live in different cities.
01:07:14 Like, we lived in different cities.
01:07:16 So, I came over here and, like, at the start of our relationship, or like a month into
01:07:26 our relationship, he said that he really supports that the people move in together quickly and
01:07:33 get married quickly and things like that.
01:07:38 And was he aware of the scope of your neurasthenia at this point?
01:07:45 Somewhat.
01:07:46 I…
01:07:47 Yeah.
01:07:48 But not all of it, because I didn't live here.
01:07:51 I didn't have to do the chores.
01:07:54 Well, so, you were keeping some things from him, if I understand this.
01:08:00 Not deliberately.
01:08:02 Okay, come on.
01:08:04 Are we really going to play these kinds of game, word games?
01:08:08 Of course deliberately!
01:08:10 Oh, no.
01:08:11 I mean, are you possessed?
01:08:13 No!
01:08:14 Do you have a voice box that screams out things or hides things, I mean, against your will?
01:08:20 I didn't think of that.
01:08:22 No, I'm sorry.
01:08:24 Sorry, you listen to this show, you're a very intelligent woman, and you are, right?
01:08:28 So, please, I'm sorry.
01:08:30 You can go rubber bones on me all you want, but I just won't accept it.
01:08:33 Sorry.
01:08:34 You've got free will, you've got choice, and all of that, right?
01:08:37 So, you've minimized…
01:08:38 Listen, I understand.
01:08:39 I understand.
01:08:40 I minimized my condition, yes.
01:08:41 Yeah, you minimized your condition, and I understand that.
01:08:43 We all put our best foot forward in dating, right?
01:08:46 Yeah.
01:08:47 So, you minimized your condition to have him move in.
01:08:50 So, how did you minimize it?
01:08:51 And, again, I'm not judging here, I just want to understand, right?
01:08:54 Yeah.
01:08:55 So, how did you minimize your condition over the courtship phase, like before you moved in?
01:09:00 I didn't talk about things that I can't do, I talked about things that I can do.
01:09:09 So, I talked about that I can do two hours of work a day, and I am managing my life,
01:09:18 and it's better in the recent years, and it's getting better, but I didn't tell him that
01:09:26 at my family home, I'm not doing much chores or any of them, because I just don't have the energy,
01:09:39 and I just didn't tell him these kinds of things, that I didn't tell him things that are left undone because of my energy.
01:09:55 And did he know that you had suicidal thoughts, or I'm not saying suicidal like you're stepping off a bridge,
01:10:04 I mean, just how can I go on kind of thoughts, did he know that before you moved in together?
01:10:09 No.
01:10:10 And does he know that now?
01:10:12 Yes.
01:10:13 Okay.
01:10:14 I have told him that I just can't take it anymore, or I'm just so tired, and he has asked me,
01:10:24 like, what does it mean?
01:10:26 Like, he doesn't understand what it means, and actually, a lot of times, even I don't know what it means,
01:10:32 because like I said, it feels like I just don't have the energy to live, but I don't want to die.
01:10:43 Right, right.
01:10:45 There's a terrifying line from an old Sam Cooke song, "It's been too hard living, but I'm afraid to die,
01:10:52 because I don't know what's up there beyond the sky."
01:10:55 Listen, the burden, sister, listen, the burden that you're carrying is immense and brutal and scary,
01:11:07 and I massively sympathize with that.
01:11:09 And the fact that you've minimized things to get some companionship and love, I completely understand.
01:11:17 So, again, I'm not some bearded biblical character hurling thunderbolts of moral righteousness.
01:11:25 I understand.
01:11:26 Now, you said, is it true that your energy is—because I've got to be a little skeptical, right?
01:11:35 Is it true that your energy is getting better living with this fellow?
01:11:39 Yeah, that is true, because when I started living here, I almost couldn't do anything.
01:11:50 I was so tired when I came from my family home, but now I do chores, I wash the dishes,
01:11:59 and there are a lot of dishes.
01:12:01 Why are there a lot of dishes? You guys having giant dinner parties?
01:12:05 No.
01:12:07 Are you inviting the entities over for snacks? Sorry, go on.
01:12:12 No, we just—
01:12:14 Oh, I know, because you have to have a big enough meal to feed your ass.
01:12:19 Anyway, just kidding, sorry.
01:12:21 Last butt joke, I promise, for at least five minutes.
01:12:23 All right, sorry, go ahead.
01:12:24 Okay, that was a good one.
01:12:25 Yeah, yeah.
01:12:27 Neither of us like doing the dishes, so we are doing them if we need to.
01:12:33 Ah, okay. Spoiler, nobody likes doing dishes.
01:12:37 Yeah, so I do them when I cook or something, so they're right there and I do them.
01:12:42 Was he surprised when he moved in with you to see what your energy level was like?
01:12:48 I don't think so. At least he didn't show it, but he did tell me that the thing that he most appreciates
01:13:00 about a partner is how she gets things done, like if she gets shit done.
01:13:06 Wait, sorry, what he most appreciates about a woman is how much she gets done,
01:13:11 and then he dates a girl and moves in with Neurosthenia? What?
01:13:14 Yeah.
01:13:16 What I most value about a woman is a tiny button on her king—I told you it wasn't even going to be five minutes.
01:13:20 Okay, so that's his efficiency and hard work and all of that is one of his big values,
01:13:28 and then he moves in with a girl who's got Neurosthenia.
01:13:32 Yeah, I think he hoped that I make his living easier, like I do chores for him and he works,
01:13:43 so I don't have to work. He has told me that he doesn't expect me to work,
01:13:49 but then he expects me to do things that are equal to his work.
01:13:54 Yeah, of course. So you don't have an income, is that right?
01:13:59 I have a little income because of the Neurosthenia.
01:14:03 Oh, disability kind of thing, right?
01:14:05 Yeah, kind of.
01:14:08 So I have a little income, but the money is not the problem, or it hasn't been the problem for a very long time.
01:14:16 No, but it will be.
01:14:18 Eventually.
01:14:19 Oh no, it will be. And sorry, how long have you guys been living together?
01:14:22 A few months.
01:14:23 A few months, sorry, you mentioned that. Okay, it will be because we men, we're happy to pay the bills, of course, right?
01:14:30 But there's things that you have to do as well, right?
01:14:34 Yeah.
01:14:35 Otherwise, like you have to do labor for a man who's paying the bills, otherwise he's paying for sex and that's gross.
01:14:42 Yes. No, don't want that.
01:14:45 No, we don't want that because that's gross, right?
01:14:48 No, no, no.
01:14:49 Because, yeah, a man, if the woman is not raising his kids, running his household, making his life easier, doing his taxes,
01:14:56 like whatever, whatever she's doing, that allows him to focus on work and make himself more productive,
01:15:00 then he's just at some point he's going to click on him. It's like, oh, I'm just paying for sex.
01:15:05 And that's not good, right?
01:15:07 Yeah. I'm in a difficult position here because like I said, my energy levels were like are getting better, but then I broke my leg.
01:15:18 What? How did you break your leg?
01:15:21 My partner bought a land and there was a house there.
01:15:29 I'm sorry, a what?
01:15:30 A land, like with some old barns and houses.
01:15:35 Oh, some land. OK, sorry, sorry. Got it.
01:15:37 Yeah, some land.
01:15:38 Uh-huh.
01:15:39 And we were like looking at it and going around and then I slipped my leg between two like wooden planks and it shattered my ankle.
01:15:54 Oh, my gosh.
01:15:56 Yeah, I'm probably going to be limping like until the end of the year. But this was like really hard because now I'm disabled, basically, maybe.
01:16:11 Oh, my gosh.
01:16:13 So he has to...
01:16:14 Sorry, is it the case because you've been quite inactive for quite some time, does that...
01:16:19 No.
01:16:20 Have you had bone scans or do you think it has anything to do with that?
01:16:23 No, I think it was just a really unfortunate accident. I have had like bone fractures and breaks before, but it's not because I was that inactive.
01:16:36 Did you have to get like bolts and stuff? Like it was a really bad break? You said shattered, right?
01:16:40 Yeah, I have like, I think like six metal screws in and one metal plate.
01:16:49 My gosh.
01:16:51 Yeah, so that happened.
01:16:53 How long ago did that happen?
01:16:55 A month ago.
01:16:58 Are you still in, I assume, still in some pain?
01:17:01 Yeah, I can't, I am not allowed to step on my leg, like put body weight on it, but I have to move it so it gets back to mobility.
01:17:14 Oh, yeah, no, the rehab and stuff can be tough. Yeah, for sure. Massive sympathies for that as well.
01:17:19 Yeah, but it's been extremely hard because the moment I got the energy to do like chores, I can't walk to do the chores.
01:17:34 I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm still trying to figure out, like some things in life are just an accident.
01:17:40 Yes.
01:17:41 But not everything.
01:17:43 Yes.
01:17:44 And this could just be a complete accident. It's a little tough for me to figure out. You stepped between two planks and shattered your ankle.
01:17:51 Yeah, I didn't look where I was stepping. Like, okay, the full story is that we were there with two of our friends and they climbed a wall and he climbed the wall.
01:18:04 And then I thought, oh, maybe it's fun. I will climb the wall. And I climbed and halfway there, I thought, nah, that's not a good idea.
01:18:13 So I stepped back and it had rained. So there were two planks there that were wet and slippery. So I stepped back and my legs just slipped.
01:18:29 And when I looked at my leg, there was no pain, but it was like this big.
01:18:34 Bad ankle.
01:18:35 Yeah.
01:18:36 Yeah. So it was definitely not even subconsciously deliberate.
01:18:43 No, I get that. But you still decide to climb up the wall, right? Now, aren't you physically quite weak, though?
01:18:51 Yeah, but...
01:18:53 I mean, you don't exercise, right?
01:18:55 Yes.
01:18:56 You don't do weights, you don't run. And I'm not criticizing you for that, but aren't you physically quite weak?
01:19:03 Yeah. And that's why I decided to come down halfway there.
01:19:08 Right. But why are you deciding to go up when you're physically weak?
01:19:12 It seemed fun. I wanted to, like, I know I have climbed things, so I thought it would be okay.
01:19:19 There was a door there, so I thought I can use that as a support and like the leeway to put my things.
01:19:27 When was the last time you did something physically strenuous like that?
01:19:33 Oh, God. I have no idea.
01:19:39 Right. So you decided to do something physically strenuous in a dangerous environment when you haven't done it in probably ten or more years, right?
01:19:47 Yeah.
01:19:48 So this is the judgment thing.
01:19:51 Yes, that's definitely.
01:19:54 Now, is there a part of you, and I could be wrong, is there a part of you that wanted to show him that you weren't weak?
01:20:02 That you didn't want to be the half-disabled girlfriend?
01:20:08 I think there's always a part of me that wants to impress him or show him that I can also do things, that I can also get the shit done, that he can rely on me. So maybe it was partly because of that.
01:20:28 Because this was bad judgment, right? I'm not saying you're totally responsible for the accident. Of course not, right? But it was bad judgment.
01:20:35 I would say I am.
01:20:37 Yeah, to try to do something physically that you hadn't done since you were a kid, and you have, of course, with genuine sympathy for the neurasthenia, you're weak, right? Physically.
01:20:50 Yeah, pretty much. I am not disabled that weak. I can still walk.
01:20:59 Well, you are now.
01:21:00 Yeah, now I am.
01:21:02 I mean, for six to 12 months, right?
01:21:06 I have no idea, actually, how long. I just know a friend of mine that also had her leg broken, and she said that she's still limping.
01:21:18 You said, I thought you said you might limp for the rest of the year, right?
01:21:21 Yeah, and that's my estimate.
01:21:24 Oh, okay. They haven't told you recovery time or anything?
01:21:27 Yeah, no, they haven't. They told me that I can put body weight on my leg, like, in June, but I have no idea how that is going to go.
01:21:39 Right.
01:21:40 If it's going to hurt or...
01:21:42 Okay.
01:21:43 So, yeah.
01:21:45 Now, do you think, I know you've talked to psychologists and psychiatrists, is that right?
01:21:50 Yeah.
01:21:51 And has anyone, and you don't have to say anything about your sessions that you don't want to, of course, right?
01:21:56 Totally voluntary. But has anyone said to you that there could be psychological origins, it could be some contradiction in your emotional life, or has anyone said to you that there could be some psychology behind your tiredness?
01:22:18 Yeah, my psychologist said that it might have to do with that, rather than my physical health, because like I said, I have...
01:22:33 Like somatic or something, yeah, okay.
01:22:35 Yeah.
01:22:36 Yeah, because they can't find a physical cause, right?
01:22:38 Yeah, because one thing is that I am getting better. I go to my psychologist and she has seen my progress. So I am getting better.
01:22:55 And it has happened after I moved out from the space where my mom and sister and father were.
01:23:07 And also that when I was at home, in my family home, I always slept with three blankets. I had a soft blanket, a weighted blanket, and a big feather blanket.
01:23:25 So I always slept like that, even if it was like 20 degrees Celsius in the room, I slept like that. And I couldn't sleep.
01:23:37 Are we back?
01:23:38 I think we're back.
01:23:39 Okay.
01:23:40 Yeah, I don't know what happened there, but suddenly...
01:23:43 Where did I cut off?
01:23:44 You were talking about how there could be some form of psychology behind it, and it was better when you moved out from your parents' place and the weighted blanket situation.
01:23:55 Yeah, like my psychologist said that it was a security reason that I didn't feel secure in the family home, so I used the blanket.
01:24:06 But here in my partner's home, I feel secure, so I almost need no blanket sometimes.
01:24:15 Okay.
01:24:16 So that's why I know that being in my family home had made me worse, or didn't help me heal.
01:24:29 Right.
01:24:33 Okay, is there anything else that... I mean, I assume you're calling me because the answers aren't particularly satisfying that you're getting, is that right?
01:24:40 I just don't know what to do next. I want to like...
01:24:45 Well, there's no doing, right? I mean, nobody calls me for what to do. I'm not a personal trainer, right?
01:24:51 Well, yeah. I just want to know how to go on or want some insight.
01:25:01 All right. How long have you been listening to my show?
01:25:05 I listened to a few episodes with my partner, actually, but not long.
01:25:16 And how have you found the conversation overall so far if you're kind of new to this sort of approach to philosophy?
01:25:22 Actually, really satisfying because you called me out about minimizing my disability or overall my suffering.
01:25:38 And that's what I've done like all my life because everyone has called me a whiner or something like that.
01:25:47 Oh, no, no. I don't consider you a whiner at all. In fact, you're doing way better than I think I would in your situation.
01:25:53 So, I take my hat off as far as that goes for sure.
01:25:57 Okay.
01:25:58 So, look, I obviously I don't know what the problem is, but I'm going to give you a thought.
01:26:02 And if the thought fits, we can work it some more. If the thought doesn't fit, we can abandon it completely. Right?
01:26:08 Yeah.
01:26:09 Is an approach to this okay?
01:26:10 That sounds good.
01:26:11 All right. So, sort of based upon I listen like with rabid care, right?
01:26:16 I'm like a sponge. I absorb everything you say. So, at the beginning of the conversation, you apologized a lot.
01:26:23 Yeah.
01:26:24 Right?
01:26:25 That's something I do.
01:26:26 No, and I sympathize with that. You had to apologize because you had abusive parents.
01:26:31 Yeah.
01:26:32 And so, you don't like to cause trouble because causing trouble you have very destructive parents.
01:26:43 Yeah, causing trouble.
01:26:44 And they abused you and scorned you. And I was really struck by that story. Your mother hits you.
01:26:49 She reaches out for you like, "Oh, fine. I'll give you some comfort." You pull back and she's like, "Fine. Don't take any."
01:26:54 Yeah.
01:26:55 Right? So, that's no bond.
01:26:57 Yes.
01:26:58 Now, little girls in particular are vulnerable. I mean, you know, boys get molested as well.
01:27:05 It's one in three girls, one in five boys. I mean, you're in tragic company, right?
01:27:10 Yeah.
01:27:11 So, little girls are protected by the bond with the parents. In particular, with the father.
01:27:24 And, you know, you've mentioned very little about your father. He just seems like this shadowy figure on the dark side of the moon mentally.
01:27:31 Yeah, he was.
01:27:33 So, you were unprotected.
01:27:37 Yes.
01:27:39 Now, your step-grandfather Creepazoid and the 18-year-old Creepazoid, who took himself out of the equation to the tears of no one sane, they sensed that you were unprotected.
01:27:58 So, your parents, and I'm not saying this is conscious, but your parents would paint you with a target for pedophiles.
01:28:08 Oh, God.
01:28:10 Because the pedophiles scan, I just finished this whole section in my book on peaceful parenting.
01:28:16 So, pedophiles scan for very apologetic, very insecure, and I don't mean that that's a personal problem, that's a natural reaction to being unprotected.
01:28:27 You know, like if I'm walking through the jungle at night and I can't see anything, I'm nervous. That doesn't mean I have a problem with anxiety, it means I'm in danger, right?
01:28:36 So, there's no criticism of your personality, it's a perfectly rational response.
01:28:41 Yeah.
01:28:42 So, all parents who withhold a bond from their children are painting them with targets for predators. Those predators could be sexual, could be physical abuse, could be bullying, could be emotional abuse, could be molestation, you know, and so on.
01:28:55 So, all children who are unbonded with their parents, which is entirely the parent's choice, all children want to be bonded with their parents.
01:29:03 So, when your parents push you away, when they put you down, when they keep you at arm's length, they are deferring you to fucking predators, okay?
01:29:11 Whether they know it or not, whether they like it or not, whether they think about it or not, I don't care.
01:29:16 They are rubbing you with marinade and throwing you into a shark tank.
01:29:20 Oh, God. Yeah.
01:29:22 Am I wrong?
01:29:23 Yes.
01:29:24 No, no, I just didn't think of it that way.
01:29:28 So, you are, you know, I mean, you're like a baby zebra and the entire herd is half a mile away, and you're in thick grass, and you smell lion.
01:29:37 Mm-hmm.
01:29:39 Which is why I said your parents are terrible.
01:29:43 Yes.
01:29:44 Because they're putting you substantially at risk.
01:29:47 Yeah.
01:29:48 Because this is the blood scent for the predator, you know, like how sharks can smell a tiny bit of water, a tiny bit of blood in a huge amount of water.
01:29:56 The scent for the pedophiles are anxious children without parental protection.
01:30:02 Like, you know lions, they always go for the zebras, the baby zebras without the parents around, right?
01:30:06 Yeah, yeah.
01:30:07 Because they're the easiest to catch.
01:30:09 It's the easy meat, right?
01:30:11 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
01:30:13 So, you were delivered to pedophiles.
01:30:20 It sounds disgusting.
01:30:22 It is disgusting.
01:30:24 And this isn't even just theory, because your mother and your grandmother saw the signs.
01:30:34 Of course.
01:30:36 They saw the signs.
01:30:38 Mm-hmm.
01:30:40 Yeah.
01:30:42 And then they not only delivered you up to this fucking creep of a step-grandfather, but to the 18-year-old psychotic, having-vision, suicidal, weird, creepo, touch-a-14-year-old-girl's-hoo-hoo, evil guy.
01:30:59 Yes.
01:31:01 They didn't say, "Get the hell away from our kid, you creepazoid."
01:31:08 What's the matter with you?
01:31:09 They did this to fix me.
01:31:11 Right.
01:31:12 Now, not only did they not protect you, they gave him you.
01:31:19 That's why I was asked about sleeping together when you were at your grandmother's place, right?
01:31:24 Mm-hmm.
01:31:25 So, they offered you up to him, because they left you alone with him, with no boundaries, no coaching, no protection.
01:31:40 Mm-hmm.
01:31:41 They let you get molested by this turbo-creep who was fondling your privates while seeing ghosts.
01:31:55 Yeah.
01:31:58 I mean, this is about as appalling a thing as I can conceive of.
01:32:01 My heart absolutely goes out to you, human being to human being.
01:32:05 This is beyond appalling.
01:32:07 Yes.
01:32:09 So, tell me how you're feeling when I describe it in these terms.
01:32:16 Everything is on point, but it's so disgusting.
01:32:20 It is.
01:32:21 So, do you know what happens when we are served up by evil people to evil people as children?
01:32:30 What does our heart feel deep down?
01:32:35 Unsafe?
01:32:37 No, that's a defense.
01:32:40 Okay.
01:32:44 Uneasy?
01:32:46 I don't know.
01:32:47 That's just another way of saying unsafe, although you win thesaurus points for synonym.
01:32:52 I'm sorry.
01:32:55 Okay, let me put it to you this way.
01:32:59 You have a daughter, and you hire a babysitter.
01:33:04 You come home, and you find out that the babysitter has molested your daughter.
01:33:11 And what's your feeling?
01:33:15 Anger.
01:33:16 There we go.
01:33:17 There we go.
01:33:19 Not unease and fear, anger.
01:33:21 No, no.
01:33:22 Now, I'm not saying the unease and fear isn't there too, but you already know those feelings, right?
01:33:26 Yes.
01:33:27 So, anger.
01:33:30 Yeah.
01:33:32 Let's just pose a theoretical here, all right?
01:33:36 So, you come home, and your daughter has been molested by, let's say, a female babysitter,
01:33:48 because it's more common that there would be females, and women, of course, can be pedophiles as well.
01:33:52 So, your daughter's been molested by a woman, the babysitter, and you say, "I'm pressing charges," this, that, and the other.
01:34:01 And then the babysitter drives home, and drives off a cliff, and dies a fiery death.
01:34:06 What do you think?
01:34:11 I wouldn't feel sorry.
01:34:13 I would feel relieved, rather like she can't molest any more children.
01:34:20 Right.
01:34:21 You just saved me a lot of time in the legal system, right?
01:34:26 Yeah, that too.
01:34:28 Good fucking riddance, right?
01:34:31 Do you see what I'm saying?
01:34:35 Yeah.
01:34:36 Now, what if you come home, and I'm sorry to be putting you through this, but I'm really trying to laser target on your exhaustion, right?
01:34:43 So, what if you come home, and your babysitter has not molested your daughter, but instead has invited some friends over who've done it?
01:34:57 No, that's not okay.
01:35:02 Well, it's bad if it's worse, right?
01:35:05 Yes, exactly.
01:35:07 Right, so that's your parents.
01:35:09 There's no difference.
01:35:10 No, so that's your parents.
01:35:12 Your parents delivered you to pedophiles.
01:35:15 Oh, no.
01:35:17 They're the babysitter who delivered your daughter to a pedophile.
01:35:20 That's your parents.
01:35:22 So, when you said earlier, and I'm not trying to catch you out on anything, I'm just telling you sort of where I'm coming from.
01:35:27 When you said, "I said your parents are terrible," and you said, "I know," and I bookmarked that in my head because I'm like, "You don't yet."
01:35:34 Okay.
01:35:35 Do you see what I mean?
01:35:37 Yes.
01:35:38 I didn't know, like, from that point of view.
01:35:41 I meant, like, my partner says that they're terrible, and he's really, like, good judge of character, and, like, my gut has always told me that they are, like, not the best people, but I, like, suppressed it because I was living with them, and I didn't want to, like, judge anyone harshly.
01:36:03 Well, you couldn't.
01:36:04 What do you mean you didn't want to?
01:36:05 You couldn't.
01:36:06 We can't.
01:36:07 Children, we're programmed to not condemn our parents.
01:36:11 We can't.
01:36:12 Yeah.
01:36:13 The kids who condemned their pedophile-enabling parents, what happened to them?
01:36:18 Well, bad things.
01:36:20 Very bad things.
01:36:22 So, you couldn't judge.
01:36:28 To judge your parents as a child or as a teenager would have been a death sentence.
01:36:32 At least, that's the way our brain processes it, if that makes sense.
01:36:35 Yes.
01:36:44 Oh, my God.
01:36:48 So, you get anger.
01:36:51 Yeah.
01:36:52 At the same time as you have anger, entirely justly, entirely justly, at the same time
01:37:00 as you have anger, you have to very strenuously oppose that anger because that anger can be
01:37:09 fatal for you.
01:37:11 Why?
01:37:12 Because if you call your parents, like, because the way we're programmed is if we call our
01:37:18 parents out, we will be abandoned or unprotected.
01:37:22 Yes.
01:37:23 And we'll die.
01:37:24 I'm not saying they'll kill us directly, although that certainly happened throughout our evolution.
01:37:29 Yeah.
01:37:30 But we are risking our entire survival by getting angry at our parents.
01:37:36 Yeah.
01:37:37 That does feel it.
01:37:39 Like, it does feel that way, sometimes.
01:37:42 Well, it is that way.
01:37:44 Yeah.
01:37:45 It is that way.
01:37:46 I mean, you think of the baby zebra, if it pisses off the adult zebras, they'll just
01:37:50 stand aside when the lion comes.
01:37:52 Yeah.
01:37:53 Right?
01:37:54 As your parents did, really.
01:37:55 In fact, they delivered you to the lions.
01:38:00 So?
01:38:02 So, you're angry.
01:38:06 I should be, yes.
01:38:07 And you should be.
01:38:08 Absolutely, you should be.
01:38:10 Yeah.
01:38:11 Now.
01:38:12 Sorry.
01:38:13 You go ahead, I'm happy to hear what's going on in your mind.
01:38:16 I'm just thinking, like, how could they?
01:38:19 Exactly.
01:38:20 How could they?
01:38:25 How could they?
01:38:26 But they did.
01:38:27 And so, the how could they is somewhat irrelevant.
01:38:29 Yeah.
01:38:30 But they did.
01:38:31 We know that they did, right?
01:38:32 Yeah.
01:38:33 So.
01:38:36 You have feelings of death, right?
01:38:45 Sometimes.
01:38:47 Yes, I understand.
01:38:48 I understand.
01:38:50 And I think I know why.
01:38:52 I don't know, obviously, it's just a theory, but I think I know why you have feelings of
01:38:55 death.
01:38:59 Which is why I asked.
01:39:00 It's why I asked, how would you feel if the woman who molested your daughter died in a
01:39:06 fiery crash on the way home?
01:39:09 And I think your consensus was something like, good.
01:39:15 Yeah.
01:39:16 Relieved.
01:39:17 Yeah.
01:39:19 So, that's called murderous rage, right?
01:39:22 Yes.
01:39:23 That was what I was feeling.
01:39:25 Yeah.
01:39:26 So, murderous rage.
01:39:27 And listen, murderous rage is very healthy.
01:39:30 It doesn't mean we go out and harm anyone, but it's important to know, because murderous
01:39:34 rage is there to protect us.
01:39:36 Yes.
01:39:37 Right?
01:39:38 Yeah.
01:39:39 So, obviously, you probably grew up with people who acted out their anger, like your parents
01:39:45 acted out their anger or their impulses, right?
01:39:47 Yeah.
01:39:48 If they didn't want to be close, they had no obligations.
01:39:50 If they were angry, they yelled at you.
01:39:51 If they were angry, they hit you.
01:39:53 If you didn't want to be comforted, they'd say, fine, fine.
01:39:55 So, their emotions translated into actions.
01:39:58 Is that fair to say?
01:40:01 Yeah.
01:40:02 They had no filter with their anger.
01:40:06 Right.
01:40:07 So, if you grow up with people who take their anger and act it out in a harmful way, you
01:40:16 then become frightened of murderous rage, because you think you might kill someone.
01:40:20 Yeah.
01:40:21 Do you see what I mean?
01:40:22 I don't want to be toxic to friends or people around me.
01:40:28 Right.
01:40:29 But that leaves you unprotected.
01:40:31 Now, the murderous rage is there to get evil people away from us.
01:40:39 Now, that's not by killing them, obviously, or harming them physically, but the murderous
01:40:43 rage is like, I've got to get away from these people.
01:40:45 Yeah.
01:40:46 I think of it as like a barking dog.
01:40:50 Yes, yes, a barking dog keeps the criminals away, right?
01:40:55 Yeah.
01:40:56 Okay.
01:40:57 Oh, God.
01:40:59 So, you have anger towards your parents and your grandmother and your step-grandfather
01:41:06 and your "boyfriend" who was just your pedophilic exploiter.
01:41:12 Sorry, I lost a little bit track of the cousin.
01:41:17 You'd mentioned a cousin, and I wanted to see if he's in the list.
01:41:20 No, she's almost.
01:41:24 She's also suffered at the hands of…
01:41:26 Oh, she's suffered.
01:41:27 Okay, right, okay.
01:41:28 Yeah.
01:41:29 So, you have murderous rage that you can't allow yourself to feel, right?
01:41:37 Yeah.
01:41:39 And where does that murderous rage get turned if it can't be directed at the proper object?
01:41:47 Inside.
01:41:48 Yeah, against yourself.
01:41:51 So, for instance, you know, if you witness somebody from the mafia organize crime, you
01:42:00 witness them committing a crime, and you're going to testify against them in court, what
01:42:04 do they want to do to you?
01:42:08 Prevent me from testifying?
01:42:10 No, they want to kill you.
01:42:12 Yeah.
01:42:13 Dead men tell no tales, right?
01:42:15 Yeah.
01:42:16 Two men can keep a secret only if one of them is dead, right?
01:42:20 Okay.
01:42:21 So, you have a condemnation of your parents, and in my view, this is all theory, but I
01:42:32 think it fits with the facts, doesn't mean it's true, right?
01:42:35 Yeah.
01:42:36 So, if you have murderous rage towards your parents, and they would rather you die than
01:42:45 tell the truth, in the same way that criminals would rather kill witnesses than go to jail.
01:42:55 Does that make sense?
01:42:56 Yeah, but the evolution programming that they would rather me die is so weird, because it
01:43:03 does feel that way, like they would abandon me, maybe, if I would like...
01:43:09 Oh, they would, yeah, no, and here's the thing, let's say that they only had a 5% chance of
01:43:13 abandoning you, you can't take that chance.
01:43:15 I don't play Russian roulette, even if it's a one in six chance, right?
01:43:21 Yeah, I might have gaslighted myself a lot, because they have been better in the recent
01:43:27 years, but...
01:43:29 I'm sorry, gaslighted yourself a lot?
01:43:31 You're not self-criticizing again, are you?
01:43:34 No, you wouldn't do that to me, would you?
01:43:38 I just want to...
01:43:39 No, you didn't gaslight yourself, hang on, what do you mean you gaslit yourself?
01:43:43 You had a survival mechanism called squelch your anger.
01:43:47 I mean, I knew that they were good parents, and they are good people, but in the recent
01:43:55 years, I didn't think of it that much, because they were nicer to me.
01:44:00 Well, also, didn't you need them for survival?
01:44:03 You couldn't live on your own.
01:44:04 Yes.
01:44:05 Am I wrong?
01:44:06 That's true, yeah, that's true.
01:44:08 You're not gaslighting yourself, you're living.
01:44:11 Survival instinct.
01:44:13 Yeah.
01:44:14 Yeah.
01:44:15 And also, if your parents are intelligent and perceptive, and I'm sure that they are,
01:44:19 then gaslighting yourself is the best way to survive, because if you have doubt, or
01:44:24 they catch a look of skepticism or rage, or anything gets through the defenses, you're
01:44:28 in trouble.
01:44:29 Yes, that is true.
01:44:33 Yeah.
01:44:34 I did always get in trouble if I expressed my too lively emotions, I guess.
01:44:44 Right, of course, of course.
01:44:46 So, imagine if you were, I'm not suggesting you do this, but just as a thought experiment,
01:44:51 right?
01:44:52 So, imagine you said to your parents, you know what, we need to really clear the family
01:44:56 air.
01:44:57 I'm going to write a newsletter, I'm going to send it out to the family about everything
01:45:00 that happened to me as a child, you know, the molestation, my step-grandmother, the
01:45:04 fact that you knew mom and didn't do anything, we've really got to clear the air.
01:45:08 We're going to send it all out, I'm going to publish it publicly, everyone's names,
01:45:12 just because we shouldn't have these secrets, and so on, right?
01:45:16 Yeah.
01:45:17 And how would your parents react to that kind of exposure of what they did?
01:45:21 Not good.
01:45:22 No, no, no, no, no.
01:45:23 They would be like, they would try to talk me out of it first, but then if I wouldn't
01:45:30 agree, they would be mad, like angry.
01:45:34 They'd be enraged, they'd panic, they'd freak out.
01:45:37 Yeah.
01:45:38 Because the truth would be coming out, right?
01:45:41 Call me a lawyer, because it wouldn't make sense.
01:45:43 Yeah, absolutely, they would re-traumatize you, they would re-abuse you, they would sacrifice
01:45:47 everything that you are just to maintain their shitty reputations, right?
01:45:51 Yeah, public image, I guess.
01:45:56 Right, so that's the murderousness that they have, right?
01:45:59 We'll do anything to shut you up.
01:46:01 Yes.
01:46:02 Oh my God.
01:46:05 Like, there's the physical molestation, and then there's the mind rape that comes afterwards,
01:46:11 which is shut up, or we'll kill you, to one degree or another.
01:46:16 Yeah.
01:46:18 Well, now I know how they are emotionally abusive, I guess.
01:46:28 I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
01:46:31 Now I know how they are emotionally abusive, because at the beginning of the call, I said
01:46:37 that I know that they are, but I can't bring any examples.
01:46:42 Your exhaustion is, I would imagine, because you're, I mean, again, outside of the physical
01:46:49 stuff, which I can't speak to if there's a conflict within you, do you remember how you
01:46:53 described your childhood to me at the beginning of our conversation?
01:46:57 Not good.
01:46:59 No, you said, "My childhood wasn't too bad, there are lots of people who've had worse
01:47:03 childhoods, and, you know, it was okay."
01:47:05 Yeah, I recall.
01:47:07 Now, I've been doing this long enough that when someone says that, what's coming next?
01:47:13 Worst childhood.
01:47:14 Worst childhood, that you would not, you know, I don't know if I have enemies enough, or
01:47:19 hate anyone enough to want a childhood like that on them.
01:47:23 Yeah.
01:47:24 Had an absolutely appalling, wretched, exploited, alienated, distant, unloved, unsupported,
01:47:30 unprotected childhood, and I'm so sorry for that.
01:47:36 Yeah.
01:47:37 Thank you.
01:47:45 And I know that in my life, when I've had phases of tiredness, and please, I'm not trying
01:47:48 to compare my life to yours, because, you know, you have a really serious thing going
01:47:53 on here, but it has tended to be where I have the greatest conflicts.
01:47:58 If there's anything in the mind that might be draining energy.
01:48:04 Yeah.
01:48:05 It's like, you know, you have a bicep, you have a tricep, right?
01:48:07 The muscle on the front of your arm, the muscle on the back of your arm.
01:48:10 If you try to engage both of them, your arm does nothing.
01:48:14 Yeah.
01:48:15 You're paralyzed.
01:48:16 Yeah.
01:48:17 So, if you have both anger, which is there to protect you, but protecting yourself through
01:48:22 anger is going to get you killed, in a sense, or threatened with death, or feel like you're
01:48:27 going to get killed.
01:48:28 So, if you have a great desire for self-protection, but self-protection is going to get you killed,
01:48:37 then you're paralyzed.
01:48:40 Yeah.
01:48:42 Because you have a contradiction.
01:48:43 "That which is here to protect me is going to get me killed."
01:48:46 See, it's like that.
01:48:56 I never thought that me minimizing my things would affect me so much.
01:49:08 Well, again, I don't know, but I think it's an important place to start.
01:49:11 I don't know whether this is...
01:49:12 I mean, it could be a thyroid thing for all I know, but I'm just saying that I can't do
01:49:17 anything.
01:49:18 No, I think that sounds cool.
01:49:19 What I can do is try and unravel contradictions in the experience that could be setting you
01:49:26 at war with yourself.
01:49:28 In other words, you want to be protected, your parents don't want you to tell the truth,
01:49:32 even to yourself, but the only way to be protected is to tell the truth to yourself.
01:49:39 Yeah.
01:49:40 I think I need to allow myself to be more angry, I think, if I need to be.
01:49:49 No, no, not if you need to be.
01:49:52 It's not a need thing.
01:49:53 If you are, and you should be, and I'm certain that you are because you're a human being
01:49:58 who was cruelly violated fundamentally by your parents.
01:50:01 Yeah.
01:50:02 Just like there's the identified aggressor, right?
01:50:04 Like the step-grandfather and there's the boyfriend and so on.
01:50:08 So those are the identified victimizers, right?
01:50:12 Yeah.
01:50:14 But the real victimizers are the parents.
01:50:22 Right?
01:50:23 If I leave my daughter alone in the woods and she gets bitten by a wolf, is it the wolf?
01:50:29 The parents are at fault.
01:50:31 Do we blame the wolf?
01:50:32 Well, yeah, I mean, look, your step-grandfather, your boyfriend and all of that, they absolutely
01:50:36 have moral responsibility, but they're helpless without your parents.
01:50:41 They can't do anything.
01:50:43 Yeah.
01:50:44 It should have been there, like, they should have intervened somehow.
01:50:50 Okay, so somehow.
01:50:51 Okay, so let's go back in time and put you in your parents' position, right?
01:50:56 You've got this creep when you're eight calling you, I can't even say it, like S-E-X-Y, like
01:51:02 you've got this creep when you're eight and he's grabbing at you and he's using these
01:51:08 vile terms with you and so on and you see this, right?
01:51:14 Your daughter, right?
01:51:15 This is your daughter and there's some relative or someone who's doing all of this stuff.
01:51:19 What do you do?
01:51:21 Never let them be near them again.
01:51:24 Like, no, this is not okay.
01:51:29 Okay, so that's the first step.
01:51:31 What else?
01:51:36 I'm having such a difficulty to, like, extract my experience from it.
01:51:41 Yeah, I know it's tough because you're now trying to put yourself in the role of protector.
01:51:45 So what do you do with this kind of creep?
01:51:55 I would actually want to, like, attack him.
01:51:58 I understand.
01:52:01 Like, how could you, like, to a child?
01:52:04 Right.
01:52:05 It's not normal.
01:52:08 Well, I wouldn't want him to be able to do that to anyone else.
01:52:16 That's correct.
01:52:18 So I don't know if I would press charges because I don't have evidence.
01:52:26 Uh-huh.
01:52:27 Well, that can be tough.
01:52:28 And of course, the physical attacks, right?
01:52:29 He can then just claim assault and make your life difficult, right?
01:52:32 Yeah.
01:52:33 But I would, like, tell everyone, definitely, like, all the family members that have kids
01:52:43 and everyone.
01:52:44 And you'd go to his neighbors and you'd say, you know, this is what's going on.
01:52:47 This guy's really dangerous.
01:52:48 Keep your kids away from him, right?
01:52:49 You would just...
01:52:50 Yeah.
01:52:51 Yeah, if they had kids, then definitely I would warn them.
01:52:53 Well, everybody has kids over, right?
01:52:55 So, you know, you just want to...
01:52:56 You'd want to make sure.
01:52:57 So I don't know.
01:52:58 I tell you what I would do.
01:52:59 And there's no right answer to this.
01:53:01 So everything you're saying is perfectly valid.
01:53:04 First of all, I would absolutely cut off things with the grandmother.
01:53:08 Okay.
01:53:09 Because she's part of it.
01:53:11 Like, if she's got the kind of judgment to marry this vile person, then I don't want
01:53:21 to have anything to do with her.
01:53:22 Uh-huh.
01:53:23 But before I did any of that, I would say, oh, I just need to...
01:53:28 I need to use his computer for something, right?
01:53:31 Okay.
01:53:32 And then I would look through everything on his computer and see if I could find anything.
01:53:37 Evidence.
01:53:38 Evidence of anything, right?
01:53:40 Yeah.
01:53:41 Well, he didn't have a computer.
01:53:43 Oh, maybe a phone or any...
01:53:45 Whatever, right?
01:53:46 Yeah.
01:53:47 He did have a phone, I guess.
01:53:48 A dash of magazines or whatever.
01:53:50 I'm sorry, go ahead.
01:53:51 Yeah.
01:53:52 No, he did have a pile, big pile of porn magazines that he showed me and my cousin and asked
01:54:00 us if they were pretty and was a little bit insulted if we said no.
01:54:06 Well, there's your charges right there.
01:54:08 Yes.
01:54:09 Yeah, that's your charges right there, which is supplying pornography to minors.
01:54:13 Boom.
01:54:14 Yeah.
01:54:15 And I would publicize that as wide as possible, and I would just take that wriggling vermin
01:54:19 out of his nest and hold him up to the sky.
01:54:22 Yeah.
01:54:23 And have nothing to do with the grandmother and warn everyone and press charges and all
01:54:29 of that, right?
01:54:31 Mm-hmm.
01:54:33 And that's...
01:54:35 But of course, you know, if your parents had been those people, he wouldn't have tried
01:54:39 anything.
01:54:41 No, I don't think so.
01:54:44 Right, so you think a molester or somebody who exposes children to this kind of stuff,
01:54:51 if he goes to jail, I mean, he could get killed, right?
01:54:55 I mean, pedophiles don't do very well in jail.
01:54:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have heard that.
01:55:00 Or, you know, so, yeah, that's everything that you deserved to be protected with, and
01:55:08 none of that happened.
01:55:10 In fact, you were sent back.
01:55:14 And you, at the age of 14, was given a private audience with a grabby adult who called himself
01:55:21 your boyfriend, though that's not even close to the truth, right?
01:55:25 He was an exploiter.
01:55:29 Yeah.
01:55:35 I mean, in many places in the world, he'd go to jail.
01:55:43 Yeah, actually, he told, like, he expressed his concern to me multiple times that he's
01:55:57 afraid, like, getting in trouble because I'm so young and everything.
01:56:01 Right, right.
01:56:03 So he knew full well what he was up to.
01:56:06 And who had to protect you from him?
01:56:09 You did.
01:56:10 Your mother and your grandmother were like, "Yep, here's some, go hang out.
01:56:14 Be alone."
01:56:16 Yeah.
01:56:18 At least they're doing it in the house, not anywhere else.
01:56:21 Don't try with me, sister.
01:56:23 Don't even try that shit with me, seriously.
01:56:26 Don't try that with me.
01:56:29 Don't minimize this.
01:56:31 I try to, like, imitate their thoughts.
01:56:35 Right, right.
01:56:37 I don't want to, I don't like having my face pressed in shit, and I don't like having this
01:56:43 mindset in my head.
01:56:45 I accept it, I'm with you, I understand why you do it, but yeah, it's too vile for me.
01:56:51 Yeah.
01:56:52 At least you get molested in the house.
01:56:55 No.
01:56:56 You know, how about not at all?
01:56:57 Is that on the table?
01:56:58 Anything?
01:57:00 Please, yeah.
01:57:02 Can I just have a fucking childhood, please?
01:57:05 Yeah.
01:57:06 Healthy friends, no creeps, please.
01:57:10 No molestation, no, right?
01:57:12 Yeah.
01:57:13 Oh, God.
01:57:15 So, I think you're carrying a heavy burden.
01:57:21 I think that...
01:57:23 Yeah, my mind is still trying to, like, tell me, "Oh, maybe they didn't know," or something,
01:57:29 but everyone's literally telling me that, "No," like, if they didn't know, then it was
01:57:36 because they were purposely ignoring it.
01:57:39 Well, so you have, and this is why when you said, "Well, my boyfriend didn't really know
01:57:45 how bad my neurasthedia was," I'm like, "What?"
01:57:50 It's your job to tell him, and it's your parents' job to know.
01:57:54 It's your parents' job to know.
01:57:56 So, for instance, did your grandmother know that your grandfather had a stack of sleazy
01:58:02 porn mags with children around?
01:58:05 I have no idea, actually, but for sure.
01:58:09 I'm sure she did.
01:58:10 Yeah.
01:58:11 And here's the thing.
01:58:12 You need to know the quality of the people, the children are around, because everybody
01:58:14 knows that there are these kinds of people out there in the world, and you just need
01:58:17 to be careful, right?
01:58:18 Yeah.
01:58:20 So, yeah, they're 100% responsible for failing to protect you.
01:58:23 There's no excuse.
01:58:24 No excuse.
01:58:25 Don't give them any single shred of an excuse.
01:58:27 "Well, we didn't know, and it wasn't subtle.
01:58:29 We thought it was just a joke."
01:58:30 Nope, doesn't matter.
01:58:31 Doesn't matter.
01:58:32 "Well, I left my daughter alone in the woods, but I didn't think there were any wolves in
01:58:35 the woods."
01:58:36 Doesn't matter.
01:58:37 Yeah.
01:58:38 If you are not protected as a child, it's your parents' responsibility.
01:58:42 Yes.
01:58:43 Because they were all up in your face when they thought you were being selfish or lazy,
01:58:49 right?
01:58:50 So they were all up in your face about that stuff, right?
01:58:54 Yeah.
01:58:55 So, no, they weren't completely indifferent to your existence, right?
01:58:58 They were constantly yelling at you and at each other.
01:59:02 So they weren't indifferent to your existence, right?
01:59:04 So, no, they're 100% responsible.
01:59:06 150% responsible.
01:59:07 If parents aren't responsible for protecting the children, who is?
01:59:11 In the child's mind, the child itself.
01:59:15 Well, sure, but no, but that's what you have to do, and you can't blame your parents, because
01:59:20 at least you have a roof over your head and some food in your belly, right?
01:59:23 Whereas if you hold your parents accountable for failing to protect you from pedophiles,
01:59:30 then maybe they'll just kick you out and you'll be in an even worse situation.
01:59:34 Yeah.
01:59:36 So that's just a survival mechanism.
01:59:38 And wanting to make excuses for them is also a survival mechanism, and I understand that,
01:59:43 and I sympathize with that, but it's not true.
01:59:48 It's not a fact.
01:59:50 It's just excuses we make so that they don't kick us out into the snow.
01:59:55 Yes.
01:59:57 But it's like you don't need that anymore, right?
02:00:00 I'm sorry, go ahead.
02:00:01 I just need to hammer it in.
02:00:04 Absolutely, absolutely.
02:00:06 And whether this helps with the neurasthenia, I have no idea.
02:00:10 I basically just have to look for the contradictions and sympathize with them.
02:00:14 And I do.
02:00:16 I really do.
02:00:17 Yeah.
02:00:18 I think, like, yeah, I know that emotional side is a part of my neurasthenia.
02:00:26 So everything...
02:00:29 I just don't, sorry, Indra, I just don't want you to have this, you know,
02:00:34 don't want to live and like all of that kind of stuff.
02:00:37 Well, first of all, of course, you know, and I say this to anybody who's got any kind of suicidal thoughts,
02:00:41 that if you have any thoughts of self-destruction, that you will absolutely go to ER,
02:00:46 you will call emergency, you call a suicide helpline.
02:00:48 Yeah.
02:00:49 Get the help.
02:00:50 Do you make that promise to me with great seriousness?
02:00:52 Yeah.
02:00:53 Thank you.
02:00:54 But I think that the death impulse is your parents just don't want the secret to come out.
02:00:57 They just want to slaughter the witness.
02:01:00 And you're waking up to your history.
02:01:02 Yeah, at least, like I said some time ago, I was very lonely.
02:01:08 But now I have my partner and friends and everything.
02:01:13 So I can make that promise that I don't know if I will go to the ER, but I will definitely.
02:01:19 At least a phone call or your partner or something.
02:01:22 Yeah, like everything tells me that no, you shouldn't disturb them.
02:01:26 But I will like against my wishes will call someone or tell someone so that they can like talk me out of it.
02:01:35 Because I know objectively that I don't want to die actually.
02:01:41 No, you shouldn't.
02:01:43 No, listen, you are a wonderful person.
02:01:45 You are fiercely intelligent.
02:01:48 And I can't tell you how much I respect what you've done with your life, given where you started.
02:01:54 And you have a huge amount to offer the world.
02:01:57 And I want to preserve all of that and your pride in yourself and all of that.
02:02:03 So I just really want to reinforce that.
02:02:07 I mean, for what it's worth, my admiration for you is immense.
02:02:10 And you have a huge amount to offer and you have a lot of legitimate anger.
02:02:17 And I completely understand the gaslighting.
02:02:20 Yeah.
02:02:23 I will try to deal with it.
02:02:26 Or will you keep me posted about how it's going?
02:02:32 I will try.
02:02:34 You can just email me at the same place.
02:02:36 Oh, okay.
02:02:38 I just wish I could give you a big hug and all that kind of stuff.
02:02:41 But it's virtual, so all I can do is give you a big, big mental hug and hugely appreciate the conversation.
02:02:47 And I really, really hope that you'll let me know how things go.
02:02:50 Yeah, yeah, there you go. There's our little hearts.
02:02:52 Yeah, yeah.
02:02:53 I'll send it back.
02:02:54 All right.
02:02:55 So listen, can we close off here?
02:02:58 Will you think about this and let me know how it goes?
02:03:01 Yeah, I will definitely express my anger.
02:03:07 Okay, all right.
02:03:08 Well, keep me posted and thanks again for the call.
02:03:11 Yeah, thank you.
02:03:12 Thank you so, so much.
02:03:14 You are absolutely welcome.
02:03:15 Take care.
02:03:16 Yeah, take care.