We loved the Honda Talon when it came out back in 2019. It made electronic suspension widely accessible, had an excellent engine and a slick dual-clutch transmission.
But the industry has now passed the Talon, and it’s starting to feel long in the tooth. Check out our list of changes that would jump the Talon back to the top of the side-by-side market!
Check out the story at https://www.utvdriver.com/utv-videos/how-to-fix-honda-talon-1000r-4/
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But the industry has now passed the Talon, and it’s starting to feel long in the tooth. Check out our list of changes that would jump the Talon back to the top of the side-by-side market!
Check out the story at https://www.utvdriver.com/utv-videos/how-to-fix-honda-talon-1000r-4/
For more stories, reviews, and first-looks check out https://www.utvdriver.com/
Want to see even more shenanigans from the UTV Driver team? Give us a like and follow:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/UTVdriver/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/utvdriverma...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/utvdriver/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@utvdriver
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SportsTranscript
00:00 Welcome to UTV driver today. We are talking about the Honda Talon and not just any Talon the
00:05 1000 r4 we've had one of these in the shop for about a month now
00:09 But some miles on one and we've got some thoughts many thoughts the Talon
00:14 Was sort of a game-changer when it came out dual clutch transmission
00:19 Motor borrowed from the Africa twin all these things were good things Fox live valve was the first time
00:24 We saw a live battery rig. It was a great rig. That was then the market has moved forward and
00:29 The old Talon starting to show her age a little bit
00:31 Yeah, and the thing is they came out this year with the Talon 1000 r4 and they told us it was a new rig
00:36 Yeah, it's updated got the updated steering, which is nice. You're a little different
00:41 Yeah, all of those things are nice, but there are still some things missing that we've been asking for
00:46 Yep
00:47 So today we are gonna go over the top five ways to fix the Honda Talon number one
00:52 Fix the throttle we've been complaining about this for the last three years
00:58 it is
01:00 It's bad. Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's too sensitive, you know, it's too sensitive for a side-by-side
01:05 perfect for out railing in the dunes
01:08 Turns out there are a lot of other places to ride in the United States that aren't the dunes, right?
01:14 And you know some of it is because they use a geared transmission as opposed to a CVT transmission now
01:19 There are other companies out there can am that are producing a dual clutch transmission that don't have this problem is butter smooth as butter
01:26 So I think part of it really is the throttle mapping and other manufacturers get around this with a pretty simple fix
01:32 Just a throttle mode control right Yamaha makes the D mode. Yep
01:38 Polaris offers one on the XP 1000 and it basically lets you pick your own party. Do you want it to be super spicy?
01:45 I put the throttle down it puts out a hundred and thirty percent of whatever I'm asking for and go
01:50 Yeah, or do you want to turn down to where my throttle equals 50% of throttle opening, right?
01:55 And this is like a really simple piece of electronics that would fix so many of our complaints with the talent
02:01 The technology is there and it seems like a company like Honda could pretty easily throw that button in there and just cure all those
02:07 Ails, yeah, and you know when I was out on the pioneer ride
02:10 Last year I was speaking with an engineer there and they said that they they are aware that it's a thing that they need to
02:16 Address and I think they are working on some sort of throttle controller. It's it's it's time number two shift logic. It's not great
02:22 It's super abrupt, you know the the glory of the dual clutch transmission. You've got your flappy paddle
02:28 So if you're railing and you click off a gear you get that sort of snap back. Yep. That's awesome
02:32 The problem is it also does that in auto mode even when you're just putting around the yard you brought up can am earlier
02:39 They just released a dual clutch transmission and they've solved that right
02:42 You can rail and shift it manually and when the rig knows you want to shift manually
02:47 It knows you probably are gonna be driving a little bit sportier. It knows that you want those hard shifts
02:50 But if you put it in auto
02:52 The computer automatically thinks wow, this guy's just hanging out and so it backs off that aggression
02:57 It's related to the throttle mapping but Honda could do that pretty easily or we hope they do when they reconsider the throttle man
03:03 Yeah, and it's tough right because it's hard to tell it's that a is that a clutching thing
03:07 Is it a programming thing because this this drive unit got ported over from another application?
03:12 But Honda is is no stranger to making a driveline work very very well, right?
03:18 So it makes me wonder what exactly is going on there
03:21 Yeah, I mean just a little bit of clutch slip would really yeah solve that problem right off. Yeah, exactly
03:25 And it's you know, it's an oil bath clutch system
03:28 You're not really gonna see a whole lot of wear even if you do soften things up a little bit
03:32 Honestly of all the things on this list, that's my biggest aggravation and it's not just a ride quality thing. It's a grip thing
03:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah shocks the tires exactly, right?
03:42 So so where we ride there there are a lot of situations where you've got to really control the amount of grip you've got
03:47 Whether it's climbing a steep step or making your way through a rock garden and when you get that big jolt
03:52 You'll slide off of your obstacle
03:54 You'll get a little bit more tire spin than you usually would and that's just not what we're after, right?
03:59 And it adds to NVH - let's not forget that
04:02 I mean you're driving along in auto mode in a talent and before it shifts you hear a bang
04:05 Yeah, and it's just kind of it's a little jarring sometimes, you know
04:09 The first time it happens you're gonna wonder what's wrong with your machine dial all that out
04:13 The the people who want that give them a button to allow them to have it, but otherwise just back it off a hair
04:18 Yeah, and speaking of wheel and tire slip the number
04:22 We've got to change about the town is the wheel and tire
04:26 package it's
04:29 Really not great at this point to pay all the best part of $30,000 for a rig and you get
04:34 27 inch front and 28 inch rear big and littles
04:37 The front tires have that classic kind of golf cart thing where there's no shoulder to them
04:42 They're just rounded off like a dirt bike tire and they just it's also tough because they they ship with 15 inch wheels
04:48 So the tires they they just they look rubber bandy
04:51 They look small and the thing is the talent can accommodate much larger tires
04:56 We had 30 tubes on a talent without any trouble no trouble and it looks
05:01 Excellent and weirdly it smooths out the drive train. Yep. Yeah, the way to the bigger tires really calms that down
05:07 It it it's almost as good as putting a throttles
05:10 Not as good as putting a throttle mode on it, but it's the same thing
05:13 The rigs gonna look a little bit more purposeful and some of that driveline shock
05:16 We talked about with the transmission would be taken up by the bigger tires
05:20 It's gonna be a more capable rig out of the box. And the other thing is it's not unprecedented
05:24 It's not as if we're asking Honda to do something with the talent that other manufacturers don't do with theirs
05:29 Can-am will sell you a Maverick x3 with 32s on it
05:33 The Yamaha r-max which is a little bit closer to a Honda talent competitor comes with 30s and that's all I'm asking for
05:39 I'm not asking for 35s on a talent
05:41 I just want 30s right 35s and maybe a 14 or 14 inch wheel something a little bit smaller
05:46 You know, we've run into pinch flat problems with this wheel and tire combo in the past and again, I can't stress it enough
05:52 Get rid of the staggered size
05:55 I want I want square all the way around so that I can rotate these things
05:59 Especially in a situation where you're primarily running in two-wheel drive. Yeah, you'll just roast through those rears
06:04 Well and not to mention spares, right?
06:06 If you are if you want to run one spare tire with you
06:10 Then you really need square sizes front to back because if you pop a front tire and all you've got is your wide section rear
06:15 Tire as a spare you're hosed. You still have to find a way off the trail. That's not your machine
06:20 So make them square make them bigger and of everything that we're talking about here
06:24 This is probably the easiest thing to fix right and it's you know, it's not a big lift
06:28 You know Honda I don't like all the Japanese manufacturers tend to be pretty conservative when it comes to vehicle changes because you know
06:34 They they want the reliability. They want to make sure the thing is gonna stand up, but I can tell you we have driven the absolute
06:40 Snot out of a Talon with 32 inch tires on it. Then it's fine, right and it's easy. It's cheap infrastructure
06:46 Exists within Honda to do this. They have third-party suppliers who can do this for them at the drop of a hat
06:52 So yeah, I mean, I think that might be yeah next to shift logic
06:56 That has to be the top thing on the list
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07:16 All right, I may be misspoke earlier when I was talking about the easiest thing that might go for number five
07:21 Which is get rid of the window nets. Yeah, just take them out. Yeah, you know, look
07:25 I understand why the window nets are there they they are designed to keep your hands inside of the vehicle in the event of a
07:31 rollover
07:33 No other manufacturer does that?
07:35 Primarily because it is a hassle, you know anytime you're getting in and out of the rig
07:40 You're getting caught on them hinders the ability to look around right?
07:43 You're just gonna go to look out the side and your helmet hits the net
07:47 Most people are probably just gonna take them out. Anyway, just just get rid of them
07:52 Yeah, just blow them and it this is an endemic to Honda thing, right?
07:55 The Pioneer has them to all of their utility rigs and some of them have full net doors and they are
08:01 Universally more pain than they're worth
08:04 Throw them away
08:06 Yeah
08:06 and you know
08:07 It's it's tough right because if you forget to clip them in while you're driving down the road with the thing on the trailer it beats
08:13 The snot out of the rig and frees the nets and you know, we're all for safer rigs
08:19 Especially because you know, I think one of the biggest injuries come from getting your hand out of a rig in the end of a rollover
08:26 But I think that has more to do with driver training and rider training and it does anything else
08:31 You know, we or you get limit straps on your seat belts
08:34 Yeah, you know if you if you are out railing around in the desert
08:38 You can put window nets on or you can put limit straps on you know
08:41 So the window nets the aftermarket window nets work better. Yeah, because they clip in they're easy to clip out
08:47 Yeah, they're gonna be safer. I mean the little mesh net guys that Honda puts in there
08:51 I mean, they're safer than not having window nets
08:54 But really like if you're in trouble bad enough to need a window net you need something a little bit more substantial than these
08:59 I think so get rid of them number six. Let's talk about the interior a little bit
09:04 Okay
09:04 We should couch this because when the Honda Talon came out it was kind of in the same camp as some of the offerings from
09:10 Yamaha you would get into the Talon and the interior was much nicer than the Ferris especially that you were getting from
09:17 Polaris and Can-Am. They were they were not great and the Honda was a marked step up
09:22 That has changed for 2023 and 4 that is completely out the window. Polaris and Can-Am have
09:28 leapfrogged Honda and Yamaha and now the Honda just looks dated and it looks cheap and the finish isn't there and like you were saying
09:35 That's Honda's fault right right because when the Talon dropped we were like, this is how you should be doing it
09:40 Yep, and Polaris and Can-Am paid attention and didn't just meet that threshold. They exceeded it
09:45 And now it's to the point where equivalent money will get you a much nicer interior, right?
09:50 Yeah, and Honda has the reputation
09:52 I mean if you think back to the early 90s going back again to motorcycles
09:56 The motorcycles that Honda built in the in the early 90s were jewels
10:00 You know
10:00 They were almost German levels of quality and just individual parts even down to the screws
10:05 It was fit and finish was paramount to everything. We want to see that in their side-by-sides
10:10 don't be yourselves short by building an interior to a price point when
10:15 The world knows your big red because you know, you're getting high quality when you buy Honda. Let's see that in the interior
10:21 Okay, let's talk bonus round
10:23 We have this idea
10:26 Associate or Jackson Cooper brought it up not too long ago, and I thought it was absolutely brilliant
10:32 It's a fantastic idea and that is take the engine out of the Goldwing put it in town
10:36 The Talon like
10:40 Genetically needs this to happen because it is based its powertrain is based on a motorcycle to begin with
10:46 Let's just give that a little bit more you can even make it a sport rig, right?
10:50 You can sell the normal parallel twin on the Talon
10:52 Give us that flat six put it in the like fire breathing Pro are maverick are fighter, whatever
10:58 You call the Talon type are yeah Talon type are there it is
11:01 We take commission big flat six, right?
11:05 Right same dual clutch transmission all the horsepower in the world. What kind of a lot of work? It's not it's not crazy
11:11 It's still sub 200
11:13 But you got a lot more torque and it sounds like a flat six, which yeah
11:17 I don't know if you've ever heard a Goldwing with straight pipe
11:20 Yes
11:24 One of the best sounds in motorcycling
11:28 Really I'm not being facetious. Yeah
11:35 So a flat six straight piped who you know, I'm here for that throw a turbo on it
11:40 Yeah, while we're at it, you know throw a turbo
11:42 Can't even Polaris have or Polaris specifically has broken down the door in terms of displacement
11:48 So just just lean in Honda just go go nuts. Yeah, 1.8 liter flat six and you know, I want that I do
11:54 Yeah, I'm into it. This has been our list of how we would fix the Honda Talon
11:59 We want to know from you all what you think would change the Talon for the better
12:03 Put it down below in the comments and then head over to you TV driver.com where there are five days a week with news reviews
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