Pat and Matt break down what was one of the ugliest games you'll ever see on Sunday at Gillette. Can the Patriots right the ship, or is this the end of the Patriots as we know them?
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00:00:43 It's a not so instant reaction. I think, I don't think anyone's complaining about that. I had a wedding. My sister-in-law got married yesterday.
00:00:51 And so I was unable to attend the game because of that. And because of that, Matt actually took my tickets and attended the game. And maybe wish he hadn't attended the game. But it was just a complete disaster.
00:01:03 Let me tell you, driving up four hours in the rain, and then driving back four hours to get home at 11 o'clock last night. Not worth it for what we saw on Sunday.
00:01:16 It's nice to be there. The stadium is great. The environment's great. Love being around the fans and the tailgating and all that. That's all fantastic.
00:01:24 It's on the field, not so much. I still have not seen a touchdown at Gillette Stadium since Brady's last playoff game there. It's crazy.
00:01:34 But yeah, no, this is, we talked about what needed to happen and what couldn't happen. And this falls squarely into the what couldn't happen category.
00:01:44 Yeah. I mean, it just, you know, the fact that they just never even showed up, they just didn't show up. There was no compete. There was no compete level. It was nothing.
00:01:55 And again, like, you know, you had to think in the building all week. The only discussion in the building was about competitive fire. Right. And fighting through adversity and being competitive on every single play, on every single snap.
00:02:09 And the fact that they just, they never even showed up. It's crazy. Like, it's just, it's wild to me that they, that they just never even showed up to the game.
00:02:21 And that's what surprised me the most. Like, I thought, okay, if the Patriots lose, the Patriots lose. You know what I mean? But, you know, that's, I don't know. That's tough.
00:02:32 Well, and it's, it's the same game script thing. It's the same thing we've talked about too. And like your defense does enough to get a stop on the first drive, get the ball back. And let me tell you, just from the get go, Dribble Pepper is, I think, fair caught a punt at his own five yard line with nobody around him.
00:02:49 What the hell are we doing there, dude?
00:02:51 Like you're just starting off on the wrong foot and just an unforced error. Like that's not even going to show up on the stat sheet as an unforced error. But just your, when the offense can't create big plays, turning down chances to gain yards on special teams is something you can't live with.
00:03:06 And we're going to talk about it's special teams is something we're going to have to talk about on this show because they're, they're last in the league and special teams DVOA right now. They were last in the league last year and special teams DVOA. But the offense gets on the field and your first play, I think was a run that almost picked up a first down.
00:03:22 I think they got an eight yard run on the first play at the middle and then back to back in completions. And I think two missed throws by Mac or two, two throws where, you know, not a lot of separation and the throw is not close enough for the guy can make a play.
00:03:35 And, you know, a lot of blame to go around. You can, this is a lot that we can talk about there and then defense gets another stop. All right, let's see what happens. And pick six and kind of feels like the game's over.
00:03:46 And just like we've seen, you know, they, they try to have to come back there and Mac Jones, like I'll give him credit here. You answer the pick six by coming back and driving the team down the field. And then you stall in field goal range and missed the field goal. And it's just you're stacking mistakes on top of each other.
00:04:04 And you can't, you can't do that and lose the turnover battle the way they are that pick six. I don't know. Again, a lot of blame to go around on it. I don't know how much of that is on Mac Jones, but he's not off the hook because he's getting hit. That's for sure.
00:04:19 And he just can't throw that ball. No, you're going to the pocket presence isn't there for him. And I don't blame him with what's around him, but also it's his responsibility to make sure that that play doesn't happen. And he let it happen. And that's kind of what it all comes down to. So he's not seeing the field. He's not feeling it. You're down 14, nothing again, right away, because your defense lets up a score.
00:04:41 And then you're chasing the game at that point. And in some ways what happens from there almost doesn't matter. I mean, once the seams down 14, nothing, you kind of know it's over. Yeah. Yep. And that's been the case all year. I go, Igor, by the way, love the hat. He had the same hat in 96 and Jamari just to just to clarify, the Patriots have scored a touchdown in Gillette since the Brady game, but Matt has not witnessed a touchdown. Yeah, that's the Brady game. That's all. Yeah, this, this was, that was my funny way of saying I, this is my first game.
00:05:10 This is my first game since that Pat's first one I was there for since that Pat's chargers playoff game and didn't even get to see it. Not even a field goal, man. That's yeah. Yep. So, um, but no, just embarrassing, embarrassing play all around and the offensive lines, a disaster, a complete and utter disaster. I didn't think it could possibly get worse than last year. And I said, you know, and then we say, Oh, you finally get a coach in here that knows what they're talking about. Does he, I don't know.
00:05:38 I honestly don't know if Adrian Clem does know what he's doing because it looks like the guys out there don't know what they're doing. Right. Like I don't, I'm looking at it saying like, does anyone have any idea what's going on out there? You know, I just, I don't know what it just seems like this mental mistakes and mental errors all the time from them. And look, David Andrews is old and he kind of sucks now. And like, I, I understand that, but like, you just can't have all of the mental errors. It's crazy.
00:06:07 Well, and there's, again, a lot of blame to go around on the offensive line and it's so hard to isolate how much is on the coach because you're forcing guys to start who you're drafted on day three, you're forcing them to play big roles right away, which is asking for trouble guys who you knew were unpolished.
00:06:24 Clem hasn't polished them, but you also got a ton of injuries. I mean, we still don't know what's going on at the guard position on when you back injured again, strange, not on the field. So you're, you're, you're thrusting guys in who aren't ready. Right. Clem didn't get to work with half of these guys in the off season.
00:06:40 But, but it's his job to make sure they look good and they don't. Some of it's evaluation. Some of it's on the players. Some of it's on the coaches. Some of it's on bad luck. I don't know how much is on each, but if things, if things like this keep happening and you know what, we might be past the point of no return or something like this, but Robert Kraft's not going to do too much discerning of how much is how much, and this is just going to get cleaned out and it's going to be new guys in there.
00:07:06 Well, at the end of the day, right at the end of the day, Belichick's responsible for everyone. Right. Like everybody, he's responsible for everything. He's the coach and he's the GM. And so he's responsible for everything. Now I will say he does have a scouting department. It's not like he's the only guy making decisions. Right. And he has, I mean, look for internally, there was discussion that Mack Jones was not the guy that bill Belichick would have drafted at 15. Right.
00:07:34 Like he wasn't the guy that if bill Belichick had his druthers and it was just his choice alone, Matt Jones probably wasn't the guy he was taking in 15, but he listened to his staff. He listened to his, he listened to his scouts. He listened to the guy. And they said, look, this is the guy that we can build around. And so he drafted him. I think if it was up to Belichick, he would have drafted a guy like Christian bar more, which they got anyways, but he would have drafted a guy like that at 15 and then try to build around Davis mills for a year, which I think is, is wrong objectively. Right.
00:08:02 But still, you'd rather use a later pick on Davis mills to get what right now. I mean, it's not similar production because of the circumstances around them, but similar levels of quarterback play. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. And so anyways, it just, it's, you know, it's only telling half the story, but it is what it is.
00:08:20 Belichick takes responsibility for everything because it's, it's on bill. And so you look around, you look around at it and just say like, Hey, what the hell, what are we doing? Like, what is going on right now? You know? And nothing's good enough. The defense is completely hurt. Right? Like the defense is completely hurt. I understand that you're down your top four cornerbacks and John Jones was back, but like, I don't know, was he really a hundred percent? Like I, you know,
00:08:48 I also, I have a little bit of beef with the way they coached up some of the matchup. I, they had Jonathan Jones on Michael Thomas and JC Jackson on crystal LAVA at points, which didn't end up biting them. Cause a LAVA was out of bounds on the one big play. He did make like on that corner route, but like that from a matchup perspective, a lot of days quick and he's twitchy and he's the slot guy. And I feel like you want Jonathan Jones on him.
00:09:13 And Michael Thomas is bigger and more physical. And I feel like you'd want JC Jackson there. Cause you're going to have a lot of contested catches where the ball skills show up. So I wasn't sure, but I don't think they played a lot of man though. I think they played a lot of zone and it doesn't really, you're, you're getting less matchup specific stuff.
00:09:29 Yeah, no, it's true. And then, you know, I mean, so I don't know, but again, offensively, it's just, you look at the talent level that's out there and I thought KB was going to be better than this. Everyone swore Devante Parker was good. Everyone did. I didn't think so, but everyone swore Devante Parker was good. He sucks. Devante Parker sucks. If I never have to walk Devante Parker in one more game, I'll be all right with that. Cut his ass right now. I don't care. Like he just, he stinks. He stinks. And, and like,
00:09:58 we can talk about, you know, Oh, you know, he's this and he's the guy supposed to win 50, 50 ball. He doesn't period. He just doesn't win. I can't even tell you the last time he won a 50, 50 pass.
00:10:08 He has, he has won and it was on the ball from Bailey's happy in Dallas in the fourth quarter or whenever that was. Yeah. And I don't know if that was really even a 50, 50, I think it was just like a back shoulder throw. Right? Yeah. Yeah. When it's what I think Devante Parker, he just got hurt before the season. No, like missed week one. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, he didn't miss week one. That's true. I suppose. And that's, I don't, we had a lower body injury because he's had so many injuries in his career. And I look at this receiving core and it's, it's, it's crazy.
00:10:37 It's Parker and Juju shouldn't be this bad, right? They're not, we never thought they were great, but we thought, okay, this is like legitimate to like NFL receivers. And they don't look like NFL athletes out there. They look like two guys who've taken too many injuries and they just don't have it anymore.
00:10:54 And it's, it's sad to see, but I'm like, for me personally, I look at this team and I just think there's no reason to have any of those guys out there. Parker does nothing for you. Juju's does nothing for you. To me, I would just look at it and say, all right, put, you know, put, put all the young guys out there, put booty out there. Why not? What do we got to lose? You know? And listen, and, and, and here's the thing, right?
00:11:19 The argument can be made that Mack Jones has been, has been awful. And I agree with that. Right. I agree with that. He's been, he's been awful, but it's not like there are guys running wide open and he's just missing them. Like that's not happening. The guys aren't creating any separation either. And I know that I know there's levels to that. And you know, it there's, it's, it's a more complicated conversation. I understand that. Right. But like, but the thing is, is that, you know, when you have it and you look at it and you just say, man, like,
00:11:48 you know, I don't know. It's just, it's very frustrating. And Nelson Aguilar, by the way, don't even get me started on Nelson Aguilar. I know he's in, I get it. I know he's in Baltimore and he's been all right this year, but like, he also had a wide open pass where he just literally, I mean, literally wide open pass and it goes right through his hands. I was like, bro, stop it. Stop it. You know,
00:12:09 you know, who else did for Baltimore? Do you know who else did for Baltimore? Who? Zay Flowers. He had a wide open drop too. Yeah. Another note on that. There's only a couple guys. I think there's only one player right now who's averaging worse yards per reception than Juju Smith-Schuster. Do you want to take a guess at who it is?
00:12:31 Ooh, less yards per reception than Juju Smith-Schuster? Alvin Wendler. No, it's a wide receiver. Oh, wide receiver. Okay. He's out West. Oh, out West? Is it? No. Out West? I don't know. Who is it? Jackson Smith and Jigba. I'm going to, I'll give a shout out to Dave Archibald found that quote earlier. So for, for all of those who were in the draft of wide receiver at 17 camp,
00:13:00 I don't hate the idea, but the top two guys we were talking about on the board, one of them is the only guy who was doing worse than Juju and the other guy can't hold onto the football. And look, there's no argument. There's no, there's no, like we can argue about the drafts of the past, right? We can sit there and talk about how in 2018, they should have drafted Nick Chubb instead of, instead of showing Michelle. That's pretty obvious, right? They should have drafted, you know, a better offensive lineman than, than Isaiah Wynn, right?
00:13:27 They, and we can go back and, and we can, we can look at a bunch of other things that he's done. 2019, the Nikhil Harry pick had made no sense of the time. It makes no sense now. Never made any sense.
00:13:39 As, as Patriots, as Patriots fans, I think we need to like a 2019 wide receiver class swear jar. And anytime somebody mentions that we put a dollar in and it goes to a collective beer fund or something.
00:13:50 Cause like, cause it's just, it's the worst. So many times, it hurts and we all know it hurts and it's the source of this whole thing. And like, we can't change it now. If you, if you could go back, you could end up with what AJ Brown and Devo Samuel instead of the kill Harry and Jawan Williams. And you know, this whole thing goes differently, but you can't, you can't change it.
00:14:10 And again, and, and even if, even if you drafted, you know, a different corner there, but to, to miss so spectacularly and honestly, what it comes down to me, what it comes down to is that those years, right? Those years would be in this, those years would be in this spot, right?
00:14:28 Like if you're, if you drafted well in 2017, 2018, 2019, and even 2020, throw that in there too. You know, like if, if we can go from there, we can say, Hey, this team could be, that's the foundation of players that you build on.
00:14:47 But that hasn't been the case, right? That has not been the case. And so, you know, you had a good draft and not, right. You had a pretty good draft last year, not a great draft, but a good defensively, but not offensively. Right. And so, you know, and then in 2021, me drafted Mackie also drafted a remandre like he had an okay. And it's a Christian bar more yet. Okay. Draft in 2021, but it's just not enough.
00:15:13 You know? Yeah. And it's just, I, a lot of this kind of comes back to the Isaiah win miss, I think, and not just the miss, but the way it unfolded, because it's the right tackle spots, but it's, it's him.
00:15:27 And it's strange because it's the left garden, the right tackle spot that are giving them the most issues right now. And when was a guy who looked really good when he was on the field in 2019 and 2020, and he looked good enough that you're like, we want this option, but he gets too injured, loses his mobility. And there's a guy who, by the time he's done here, you're like, well, this, obviously the relationship had soured, but we all saw what was on the field last year. He was not playing well. We weren't going to bring him back, but you had to pay him a lot last year for what you got, because you had the fifth year option on end.
00:15:56 And you were kind of planning, you know, you're not, you're not looking if you knew that that's how it's going to go with Isaiah when you're drafting tackles earlier years ago, because you know, he's a miss, but you don't know.
00:16:08 And it sets you back. And then you have other spots on the line and you just got, you got a boat with a lot of holes in it and not enough duct tape to plug all the holes, right? That's what's going on.
00:16:17 And you just, when you're building a team, you can't have a bad offensive line and expect to win. And I don't think we thought this line was going to be this bad. And I think when it's fully healthy, it isn't this bad.
00:16:28 But I also, at this point, you're not going to see it fully healthy. Cole Strange is like banged up. I don't think he's going to be fully good to go for the rest of this year. From what we've heard, on Wenu is injured again.
00:16:38 And Trent Brown is like, like he has games like he did yesterday, and he has games where he's lights out. And that's how he's always been. He's a super inconsistent player. David Andrews has taken a step back. I mean, you can, if all those guys were who they were last year on the left side of the line, or from right guard over, you can deal with the issues at right tackle.
00:16:58 But all of those spots have been bad too. And you can't win with a bad offensive line. There's a lot of other issues in the offense. And you can't win with wide receivers who don't separate. You can't win with tight end who don't block or threaten the defense downfield. You can't win with a quarterback who's a bad decision maker. But none of that even has a chance to really know what you've got going on if you can't block.
00:17:22 Yep, agreed. Agreed. And I agree with this, by the way, old man mom's talking about trading players and get what picks you can get. I mean, honestly, I just, you know, that's, that's the situation. I mean, you can't, you know, like, I don't know if I'd necessarily trade everyone. But I mean, at this point, it's like, what the hell's the point, man?
00:17:46 What are we doing? You're in a, you're in a tough spot right now, too, when it comes to selling on players, because some of your more valuable guys to our free agents at the end of this year. So like, I mean, Josh, who J I think could get you back something in a trade if we're if we're selling at the deadline, hunter Henry, probably he's got enough left, and he's a free agent at the end of this year. Although in theory, Henry's like one of the few guys on this offense, I think you would keep around just to give a decent semblance of a safety blanket to
00:18:16 whatever you're gonna have offense next year. But then, or like, Michael, when you I think could be a trade piece in theory, but he's hurt. Matt judan. I think if we're really tearing this thing down to the studs going forward, judan, I think would be very valuable because he has another year left on his deal. And he might come back this year, but he's hurt. I don't think you're gonna be able to do that right now. I don't think you can trade him right now. And who else? Oh, and Duggar Duggar's the other one. You want to lock him up, you want to keep him in the game.
00:18:46 I don't think you're trying to trade him at this point. You get more value out of keeping him than you would out of trying to ship him out. So then you're looking at guys like Jonathan Jones, maybe who else like, I don't think you want to get rid of Juwan Bentley, I think he has more value to you on the team and as a leader than getting rid of them. We try and get rid of like Adrian Phillips or drill peppers. I those guys seem like good leaders to it's I want to tear it down to the studs.
00:19:13 Exactly. You're looking at day three, maybe day two picks for right.
00:19:17 Right. Uche, especially Uche signs a deal is the one guy you could probably get a day to pick for because pass rushing is so valuable, but you're just you're in a tough spot right now. And obviously, I think your most valuable asset right now is Christian Gonzalez, but you're not you're not serving him. That's for sure. I got a question for you, Pat. I was thinking about this. Is there a single person on the offense right now who looks better this season than they did last year?
00:19:42 Not one, not one single player on offense that looks better than they did last year. I mean, the only the only argument I had was Hunter Henry because he was so we had such a slow start. I told you, I told you, you can argue Hunter Henry, but Hunter Henry hasn't certainly hasn't been a game breaker, right? He certainly has been. He's been okay. He went from like a B minus to a B type of right, right. So it's it's it's negligible how much better he is in last year. And I would say that maybe he's not. He's also not back to what he did in 2020.
00:20:11 One. So, you know, it's, it's one of those things that like, yeah, sure. But like he hasn't, he's not significantly better than he was on the Patriots earlier. Right. So, and look, the, the really simple explanation for me is that I would, I would keep the defense the way it is. Josh, usually is not getting paid by the Patriots. So I would trade him because there's no point in keeping them. It just like, this is a very similar situation for me where they were with Gilmore.
00:20:40 And they were, they had Gilmore and JC Jackson. And you knew, you knew that they weren't going to keep one of those guys, but instead of trading one of them, they just held on and held on and held on and held on and held on and held on in a year where they sucked in 2020. They sucked in 2020. They could have traded either of those guys, but instead of trading those guys, they held on.
00:21:05 And then in the middle of 2021, when Gilmore said, I'm not playing, it doesn't matter. Well, then you give up Gilmore for a six round pick in 2023. And then you don't even try to resign or trade JC Jackson. And like, it's just, you know, it's, it's crazy. It's malpractice to think that like that you can do that.
00:21:31 And when it's not, we can go to over to the offensive side and talk about Joe Tooney, who they franchised and then didn't bring back. And you still, you still feel that. And it's for, it's funny when you watch the tape too, like, there's a lot of blame on the, on the offensive tackles and they deserve it.
00:21:48 But Arian low, I think PFF has is 73 out of 73 offensive tackles right now in how he's graded. I almost think the guards are even worse right now because of how it's impacting Mac Jones. He doesn't feel like he can ever step up in the pocket to do things. And he really can't on most of these. And it's, it's a, it's a thing now. Like, I think that's got the max head and I don't know if you're going to fix it at this point.
00:22:15 I think it's, I think we're kind of past the point of being able to know what Mac Jones could be in this system because he might be a little bit broken. This might have gone full David Carr, 2002 Texans where guys just get hit too much and too, too scared of the pressure. And then that's it. You just can't recover from it. And if that's what it is, that's, that's kind of the unforgivable sin in trying to rebuild a team.
00:22:40 And I think we're kind of all at the point right now where thinking it's going to be new leadership next year and coach GM quarterback, probably three new faces there. And if that's the case, what you're doing a quarterback becomes a whole question mark, because how do you fix this offensive line?
00:22:59 I don't think you can bring in a quarterback until you fix the line and you can't, I don't know if you can fix this line in one off season. You know who the best, arguably the best tackle hitting for agency is this year, Pat?
00:23:10 I don't even want to know.
00:23:13 It's Tread Brown.
00:23:14 Yeah. Like here, that's, that's where they are. It's hard. You could probably get some like league average players and solidify the interior or maybe a center or something.
00:23:25 Yeah, I don't know. You're, you're in a position here where what you're looking at is you threw away all of your, your late picks on offense last year because they couldn't stick.
00:23:34 And you might end up doing that again, not with receiver, but with your offensive lineman this year. I mean, Moffy is trying out there, but that's a, it's not working.
00:23:43 He's playing because he has to, and I don't know if we're seeing improvement. Jake Andrews still can't see the field with all the issues, which we'll talk about change. Maybe that changes next Sunday.
00:23:54 And city. So it was supposed to be a tackle, but everyone loves the worst tackle right now. And so can't get on the field. So, I mean, I don't might be another kind of day three of just not guys who aren't sticking on offense and not even given you.
00:24:10 That's the thing you can, if you whiff on guys, you want them to be guys who at least stay on the roster and you can count on his depth. And they're not even getting that.
00:24:18 The Pierre Strong, Kevin Harris, guys who aren't sticking around, you go back and they double dipped on those tight ends.
00:24:24 Devin, Ossie, Ossie and Dalton Kean, you got nothing. You, you, you couldn't even get tight end three play. I don't want to be like that's when you, when you're whiffing that badly, then it's just tough to, you can't even fill out the roster without spending money in free agency.
00:24:43 And that has issues when that's, and that's what it comes down to. I mean, even look at, you know, 2021 fifth round, Kim McGrone, six round Josh blood. So six round William Sherman, seventh round, Trey Nixon, RIP.
00:24:56 We thought, we thought Sherman looked decent in the preseason last year and they cut them. Yeah, but he hasn't done anything else where I think that's just the, you miss on them.
00:25:04 Right. But 2020 you got on my new Justin Heron who sucked cash Maloua, Dustin Woodard who retired before the season started. Right. Like, and they, yeah. And they traded out Heron for the pick that I think became one of the guys this year.
00:25:18 I think that might've been this so picked or, or it might've been something last year. I don't remember. They got something back for him somehow, but you know, it was just like, yeah, it's just been a long time.
00:25:28 It's been a long time since anything. I mean, listen, the best player from the 2018 draft for the Patriots is John Bentley playing close. John Bentley is playing like an animal right now, but like the rest of that, you know, you go back to 2018, go back.
00:25:40 I mean, Jesus, go back further, go back to 2016, go back to 2015. If you want, like they didn't get, they got, they haven't gotten anything out of those late round guys. And that's huge. That's huge for them. And you know, I just look, they're, they're not getting anything out of them and their first round picks aren't turning into, you know, perennial.
00:26:05 That's the other part of it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and so we can, and we can talk about, you know, we can go back and talk about this and talk about that and talk about these guys and talk about who they should have taken at 29. And, you know, if they should have, should they have stated 22, should they have drafted? You know, we talked about this in the podcast earlier, like, you know, should we, should they have stated 22 and drafted Isaiah McDuffie who looks like a good, or Trent McDuffie who looks like a good player? Well, but if you do that, then you don't draft Christian Gonzalez at 17 this year. I'd rather have Christian Gonzalez than Trent McDuffie.
00:26:34 Maybe, maybe this is a hot take, but I would rather have miles Bryant for what they've invested in him than spend a first on McDuffie. And I like McDuffie a lot, but he's a undersized slot corner safety guy. And I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between a guy who's like an a level player there. And a guy who's a C plus level player there in terms of impact on the game. Not, not enough to justify a first round pick.
00:26:59 No, right. I get what you're saying. So listen, we're going to, we're going to take a break for, uh, for our sponsor here, but before we go here, just, just one, I'm going to leave you one thing before we go. Let's just keep things in perspective. I know, I understand everyone's upset and I agree a hundred percent. I'm upset too. I haven't been upset as this upset as a Patriots fan in a long, long time, but here's what I will tell you. Okay.
00:27:21 There are 32 year old people, 32, 32 year old people who live in Detroit, who have never seen their team win a playoff game. I'm gonna say that again. They're 32 years old. They have never witnessed their team win a playoff game in their lifetime.
00:27:44 And so again, I'm not saying that we're, I'm not saying that there's nothing to do with what's going on right now. I get that. Be upset a hundred percent. Let's keep things in perspective here. Yeah. We've had a very good life up to this point. It's going to be hard. We're only five years removed from a Superbowl win. Right, right. Exactly. It's going to be really difficult. These next few years are going to be challenging for sure. A hundred percent. You can be upset about it. You can be pissed about Bill.
00:28:13 You can want all, I get all that stuff. It could be all, it could be a lot worse. It could be a lot worse. I mean, and trust me, it can get a lot worse from here. And it might, but you know, we'll see. We're in it for the, for all of it here. That's it. Gotta get back to the mountaintop. Exactly. So, all right, let's take a break and then we'll be right back.
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00:29:27 All right, we're back. All right, let's get it. Let's get in. Let's get into Mac Jones. Because look, this is the way it is, right? The offensive line has been terrible. Terrible. The wide receivers haven't been much better. But what we've seen out of the quarterback is just is no short of a game.
00:29:55 It is just is no short of one of the worst. It's some of the worst quarterback play I've ever seen in my entire life. Some of the worst I've ever seen. Because the thing is, is that it's not just that he's been bad. It's not just that he's missed guys wide open. It's not just that he's, it's the poise. It's the pocket quarterback.
00:30:19 It's that's that's stuff for me. That's the hard stuff for me where it's like, it's not even approaching good. Right. And I thought JT O'Sullivan did a great job last week where like, you know, the pick that he threw on the on the out route to Juju was a great example. Like not a good route by the wide receiver. Not a good route by Devante Parker who was supposed to run that guy off.
00:30:41 But the throw is a complete disaster and his footwork's a mess going into it. So it's like, yes, there are other stuff going on. Hundred percent. There's other stuff going on. And I don't know how many quarterbacks would be successful in this situation. But it looks worse than I've ever seen anyone ever look.
00:30:58 And so it's certainly in New England. Right. And I just, it's not okay. It's not acceptable. And I don't know where we go from here.
00:31:18 I started to be like, OK, I have questions about this translating at the NFL level. You go back to that that Colts game back his rookie year back half of twenty twenty one. And that was a game with the Colts sat back in zone for basically the entire game and kind of dared Mac to read it and find the holes and do that.
00:31:38 And he did a lot of like disguise stuff too with it. And just he wasn't seeing the field. He wasn't seeing underneath defenders. He was throwing it right to guys. And a lot of stuff went wrong in that game besides Mac Jones. Yeah. But that was the first one where it was like, all right, they saw a ton of zone and he never adjusted to it.
00:31:55 And I think that was kind of an issue that was something he had to develop. And I don't know if it's gotten better, his ability to really see the holes in that zone. And you combine that with the fact that he's always been an excellent quarterback against man defenses because his timing is really, really good.
00:32:14 He's good at getting the ball there on time. He's a good anticipatory passer. And that all looks completely gone now. And I don't know if that's Patricia. I don't know exactly where that comes from. I think you even saw hints of that late in twenty twenty one after his confidence got shaken with some of the zone stuff when he'd see he's just he's overthinking things and not seeing the field well.
00:32:37 And then you add on that the offensive line has seemingly gotten worse on essentially a game by game basis ever since that. And he can't now his his internal sense of pressure is broken and he doesn't have the athletic tools to overcome it.
00:32:56 So say all you want about Zach Wilson and there's a lot of criticism about him. But the biggest reason why he kept getting himself into trouble is that he did have the athleticism to evade pressure and get out. And he kept trying to do too much. And Mac does leave it. He can't even get to that point. Well, except for last week, that pick six where he went full Zach Wilson.
00:33:15 And this week was him trying to step up in the pocket and make a play. But the offensive line is not protecting it. He's not sensing the pressure and guys aren't separating in the middle of the fields clogged because they know you can't win on the outside. And it's everything coming together. And I don't know if you have to make excuses for the quarterback. He's probably not the guy.
00:33:34 You're talking about what surrounds him. He's probably not the guy. CJ Stroud doesn't have great things around him. And he looks fantastic right now. quarterbacks throw guys open quarterbacks make it happen. quarterbacks see the field know what's going to happen and are able to make something out of nothing. And it seems like Mac Jones is making a lot of nothing out of something these days.
00:33:54 Right. And honestly, it just it man, it's so it's so frustrating. I honestly don't even know where to go. I honestly don't even know where to go from here. Like I just it's clear Mac Jones is not the guy moving forward. It's clear. It's clear it won't happen here. The fans have now turned on him. It's over. It's over for Mac like and I just think I just think that that's
00:34:23 it just is what it is man. Right. And we can talk about the coaching. We talk about this when you talk about that we can whatever but to me I think it was okay. Let's put this way. To me it was obvious when I looked at when I looked at what happened last year.
00:34:40 Mac Jones sucked. They always have became in look pretty good. Now again, is Bailey's happy to quarterback? No, but Bailey's happy was running a simplified offense something to what Mac Jones ran in his rookie year. They weren't asking him to look at everything. They weren't asking to break down everything. They weren't asking to do any of those things. Well, as soon as they opened up the playbook for Mac Jones, you've seen him struggle. You've seen him struggle ever since they did that.
00:35:08 And so, you know, I just think it's obvious that he's not the guy. Right. And not just that, but he also like one of the things that drew me to Mac Jones right away. Okay. One of the things that drew me to Mac Jones right away was I remember the first day of full pads camp in 2021. I went and he was horrendous. He was awful.
00:35:31 And I walked out of that practice and I remember I sent, I sent a tweet that when I walked out of practice and I said, if anyone thinks that Mac Jones is ready to be a starting quarterback this year, you're insane. Like he's clearly not ready. Clearly not ready. And the next day at practice, he was unbelievable. Lighten people up left and right. He looked great. And so, you know, now I look at it and say, okay, wow, he really, he really fought. He really fought through that and overcame that adversity. That's gone.
00:36:00 He doesn't overcome adversity anymore. He makes a mistake. And instead of, instead of playing better through those mistakes, he compounds those mistakes and, and looks even worse. And it's just, it's true. It's rough.
00:36:12 Oh, and it's, you can live with it to a certain degree, but it's just his, his bad moments are too frequent in his, his bounce backs. Aren't good enough to overcome the bad moments. And that's just a, that's something we've seen from him. And I think that mentality for him, I think he'll probably last in this league for a while as some kind of a backup at minimum, because I think in a fresh situation, some of the mental stuff will get better.
00:36:37 And even for this year, I Bailey's happy is not better than Mac Jones. Benching Mac Jones for Bailey's happy could make sense at some point here, just be or will agree or whoever you want to put in there because it feels like Mac has the yips and he's just, he's not seeing it. Yeah. And it's maybe, I mean, that's why I was thinking, have our show later this week, talk about Vegas, but the Raiders have an awful defense.
00:37:02 Every aspect of their defense is awful. If they don't rush the passer, they can't stop the run. They can't do anything. This is the one week where it's like, all right, if this offense is going to get even a glimmer of hope and start to figure out a couple of things that they can do well, Mac Jones can start to build any kind of confidence. This is the kind of the one opportunity because it's bills and dolphins after that. And even if this team starts playing well, I don't think they have the horses to contend right now.
00:37:27 So if you can figure out something next week that gives you a glimmer of, all right, what are we building towards for next year? What players do we still want to be here? And I mean, are we, do you keep Mac Jones as a backup? Is he good enough that you can trade him and get something back? Is somebody else interested in bringing them into the building? Just in case something like that. You want them to play better from that front. And I think we all want him to play better from a washability standpoint for this team.
00:37:54 But the other thing here is that if it's, if this team is what it looks like and what it has been the last two weeks, I think riding this to the bottom also makes sense. Bill Belichick's never going to try to do that. But if you get this quarterback play on this offensive line play, it's just going to happen. I don't think with this, with this strength of schedule and some of the teams they got to play, you're looking at only a handful of winnable games the rest of the way. And a lot of them aren't in your own building either.
00:38:20 Right. And it's my, you know what, I'm going to take some of the blame here because it's my fault. I'm a mush, as everyone knows. I'm the worst, I'm the worst gambler of all time. And I have multiple bets on the Patriots over this year. And so it's just not good. So it's not good.
00:38:36 I bet the, I bet the overall on Mac Jones passing yards. I bet the over, I said, I took a bet on him hitting 4,000 passing yards. Yeah, it's not good. I took over on wins. Yeah, no, none of that. And I think a lot of it comes back to what we said before the break, nobody on this offense has gotten better. And when you swap out Matt Patricia for Bill O'Brien and nobody on your offense gets better. I think part of that's on Bill O'Brien.
00:39:02 Yep. But there's bigger problems than just the coach then because Bill O'Brien is not magically making players worse. He's not, he's like, he's an accomplished coach. And I think you can take issues with him right now. And that's fine. He's not single handedly making every player worse. There's other things going on here. Comes back to, you know, the man at the top and evaluating these guys comes back to bad luck with injuries too.
00:39:26 I don't think you can leave that out of the conversation with how prominent that's been this year and comes back to, you know, player development and personal development for these guys, which is a team responsibility and an individual responsibility. It's just hasn't been there for a couple of years now.
00:39:41 Right. And that's, and that's really what it comes down. I mean, to me, it's, it's getting the guys to play at a level that is acceptable in the NFL. And that hasn't happened, you know, and look, it's, it's not necessarily, look, it's not all on Bill Belichick, but at the, at the end of the day, it kind of has to be on Bill Belichick. Like you have to be able to motivate your guys to get up and play in those big moments. And they don't, they don't.
00:40:09 And so like, I wish, and Bill would never do this, but like, I wish he would just say, F it punt the season and like put Malik, like it doesn't even matter. It doesn't matter who we put in there. Like Malik Cunningham, just throw him in there. See what happens. Why not? Like what, you know, like if you're going to get this level of play from your offense, and by the way, they've been outscored 72 to three in the last two, last two weeks, 72, everything, three.
00:40:35 Everything is on the table right now. Nobody is playing well enough that they should feel comfortable in their jobs. Not a single player on that offense, not a single coach.
00:40:43 And not just that, but like, whatever, dude, who cares? Like what different, if you go into Vegas and lose the Vegas again and play something similar to this, it doesn't even matter. Just bench everybody who, what, like how much worse, how much worse could it possibly be?
00:40:59 And I know, I know Bill's never going to do that.
00:41:01 You're attempting fate, Pat.
00:41:03 No, but here's what I'm saying to you. If you take Matt Jones out and you put in Malik Cunningham, how much worse could it possibly be with Malik Cunningham at quarterback? It can't possibly be much worse than it is here.
00:41:12 I mean, you're still not having an extra pick six, like you're going to lose by an extra seven, but who cares at that point?
00:41:18 And that's, that's the way I look at it.
00:41:20 Right.
00:41:21 And it just, you know, and when I talked to Cole and said, I'm going to turn it up before pads and ask for a goal, why not?
00:41:26 Why not?
00:41:27 Right.
00:41:27 Anybody could do what they did in invincible.
00:41:29 Um, and you know, and just, and have a tryout for everyone, right.
00:41:34 Just have everyone show up and say, you know what, this team sucks.
00:41:37 We need talent.
00:41:37 Let's see what we got in new England.
00:41:39 Right.
00:41:39 And just, and just say, Hey, go ahead.
00:41:41 Right.
00:41:41 And so, no, but, but really, I mean, like Malik Cunningham makes sense only because from the fact that your offensive line is trash right now, trash and say, and if that's the case, well, why not bring in a guy that
00:41:57 doesn't necessarily, you know, not that he doesn't need a good offensive line, but can get his, can maneuver his way out of issues.
00:42:03 Right.
00:42:03 Or at least, at least have a package for him to go play a couple of possessions or something.
00:42:08 And that's, uh, I don't think Malik Cunningham is going to be that good, at least not right now, but I don't have an argument for why you shouldn't try it over what we've seen out there.
00:42:18 Maybe you give it another week, just in case, maybe you wait for this to hit one in seven, one in eight before you break open that box.
00:42:26 Um, but the other thing is if we're going to start doing stuff like that, like it's just, you know, probably a bill Belichick wants to keep his job.
00:42:34 I'm sure.
00:42:35 So you're not going to see tanking.
00:42:37 They are going to try to win.
00:42:39 And I don't think he's gonna think that's what's part of winning.
00:42:44 So I don't think we're going to see that happen.
00:42:45 He's obviously very risk averse on offense.
00:42:48 You're being down what, 21, fourth and three at the opponent 40.
00:42:52 And you don't go for it.
00:42:53 I think it's kind of, that felt like throwing in the towel on the season.
00:42:56 And I get his rationale that the offense hadn't gotten it.
00:42:58 And I think there's, there's a bigger indictment there, but you're just, I don't know what they're doing there.
00:43:04 Um, he did, he did say, or Adam Schefter said that we're going to see changes.
00:43:08 The team said that we're going to see them start over essentially.
00:43:11 So I won't be surprised that anything this offense does on Sunday.
00:43:15 I hope that it means we're going to see something different because if you trot that same offensive line out there and expect it to do well, I think you're asking for trouble.
00:43:24 Um, I don't, I don't know how much you can change if you don't have, um, strange or on when you for next week, but you can at least shift up the tackle positions.
00:43:33 And I love David Andrews, but are we thinking about giving Jake Andrews a look at that center in one of these games?
00:43:39 It's probably too early in the season for that, but I feel like that should happen to find out what he is.
00:43:45 Cause David Andrews is he's still your second best lineman right now.
00:43:49 Who's healthy, but he's not giving you a level play.
00:43:52 I'll tell you that much.
00:43:53 Right.
00:43:54 And receivers you, we're going to see change on Sunday, but two of your receivers are hurt.
00:43:58 Pop Douglas and Juju Smith shoe store both concussed, presumably based on the way they went out of the game.
00:44:03 Yeah.
00:44:04 They're not going to be back for next Sunday.
00:44:06 So we're going to see Keisha on booty.
00:44:08 Oh, you're going to see a lot of Devante Parker.
00:44:10 I think, I don't think that can change.
00:44:12 He has to be on the field.
00:44:14 I think if Taekwon Thornton's back, which I assume he will be, you're going to see a lot of him.
00:44:18 Yeah.
00:44:20 Which is good.
00:44:21 I think that's a good, I'd love to.
00:44:22 I want to see Taekwon.
00:44:23 I just don't know how much that even helps you with Mac.
00:44:26 Can't.
00:44:26 Oh, and that's the whole thing with his offense right now is you don't have receivers to threaten down the field.
00:44:31 You don't have a quarterback with an arm who threatens down the field and they can't pass protect long enough for those routes to develop.
00:44:38 Anyway, it's bad.
00:44:40 It's really bad.
00:44:41 You can fix one of those.
00:44:42 Maybe you can't fix all three in the middle of the season.
00:44:45 It just, uh, it's just, you're just not going to be able to do it.
00:44:49 And otherwise you're going to be living on underneath stuff.
00:44:51 And this is the whole issue with Mac reason he throws too many pick sixes is because so much of the offense with him is underneath and in the middle of the field.
00:44:59 And those are the areas where defenders can get it and get momentum and get the pick six is off of it.
00:45:03 Brady through less because when he's throwing picks, it's, it's down the field or it's these super high level of difficulty throws that aren't, aren't areas that feel where it's easy for a defense to run back.
00:45:14 Um, yeah.
00:45:16 Yeah.
00:45:18 By the way.
00:45:18 Great point here by Sean that, you know, the Buffalo area is so cocky about, about how the Patriots are getting a dose of bad medicine.
00:45:24 And listen, I hate it.
00:45:25 I hate it.
00:45:26 But like they suffered forever, forever.
00:45:31 And so like, you know, Hey, I, I was good.
00:45:35 We're not like, it just isn't the cockiness.
00:45:37 We were just as cocky to them for the last 20 years.
00:45:40 So I respect it.
00:45:42 And I look forward to giving it back at some point.
00:45:44 Yep.
00:45:44 At some point, it's not going to be like this forever.
00:45:46 At some point we're going to be better.
00:45:48 They're not going to be quite as good and we're going to be able to talk crap to them again.
00:45:51 But at this point, that's not the case, right?
00:45:55 I mean, the bills, listen, my first, the first article I ever wrote before I was ever even a Pat's pulpit before I was ever at cheese, wherever I even want to figure it.
00:46:02 We, the people, sports, whatever.
00:46:04 The first article I ever wrote was called Tom Brady, the Buffalo bill.
00:46:07 And Tom Brady was going into, it was, it was the first, um, it was the first game of the season and they were playing the bills.
00:46:15 And EJ manual was starting for the bills and it was just a conversation.
00:46:19 It was an article exploring the fact that what if the Patriots had traded Brady is at a blood.
00:46:24 So, and how many quarterbacks the bills had been on since that moment and how many different starting quarterbacks and they had drafted guys in the first round and they had got JP lost men.
00:46:34 And, you know, like G EJ man, like, you know, and over and over and over and over, and they just all sucked.
00:46:41 And it was crazy, you know, and it just like.
00:46:44 And now the bills have Josh Allen and they're a pretty good team.
00:46:47 You know what I mean?
00:46:48 And so, and look, the Patriots didn't always hit on their draft picks, but they brought guys in, right?
00:46:55 Hit on go hit on enough too.
00:46:57 And so, right.
00:46:59 And so this is, this is the question right here.
00:47:01 That's the question that's going to piss me off.
00:47:04 Bill, 100% unequivocally is the goat.
00:47:12 100% what's happening right now is that they're not good right now.
00:47:19 Tom Brady, what everyone sees is that Tom Brady won a super bowl without bill Belichick.
00:47:24 And then they see that, well, Tom Brady, bill Belichick sucks without Tom Brady, which isn't a hundred percent true, but you know, whatever.
00:47:36 But the thing about it for me is that I just, it's because of what's happened since Brady left, the narrative has, has shifted from, it was all Brady and it was all, uh, Belichick and no Brady.
00:47:52 Two, it was all Brady and no Belichick, which is wrong.
00:47:57 That that's, they're both wrong, right?
00:47:59 Like a hundred percent.
00:48:01 It is a hundred percent.
00:48:04 A split.
00:48:05 And if I would give a little bit more, and I think by the way, if he gave, if he gave bill true serum, he'd give a bigger margin to Brady.
00:48:13 Well, I think this is, I think trying to divide it into percents is kind of the wrong way to think about it too.
00:48:19 Right.
00:48:19 It's a hundred percent Brady and it's 100% bill Belichick, right?
00:48:23 Because this is a team sport that requires exceptional leadership and ability from a lot of people.
00:48:30 It's also, you know, Dante's car neck is in there.
00:48:33 And Robert craft is in there and the scouts are in there.
00:48:36 And Rob Gronkowski is a huge part of that.
00:48:39 Julian Edelman, like it's, you need all of these.
00:48:42 Um, and it's, people are going to bring up, I think just bringing up some, bring up bill's record without Brady is ridiculous to me because he's the one that drafted Tom Brady and coached him and got him to where he was in a lot of ways.
00:49:00 And obviously that doesn't take away from what Brady did personally for that.
00:49:03 But Bill was the guy that set that up.
00:49:05 You don't get to just say, yeah, let's take away his best player and then see how he looks.
00:49:10 No, he got the player.
00:49:11 He gets credit for what happens with that player.
00:49:13 Ernie Adams, a hundred percent Ernie Adams, 110%.
00:49:16 I love it.
00:49:16 You know, look, and, and here's, here's what it comes down to, right.
00:49:20 For me.
00:49:21 And I, you know, I could have a, I could have a two hour conversation about this, but here's what it comes down to for me really simply.
00:49:28 Let's go back to Oh one, let's go back to Oh one.
00:49:31 How good was Tom Brady?
00:49:32 No one.
00:49:32 He was all right.
00:49:33 He was fine.
00:49:34 You know, one Brock, Brock Purdy ask Bill is the one that designed those.
00:49:41 The bill is, is the one that was responsible for winning those games.
00:49:45 Now look in 2001, the Patriots scored three offensive touchdowns in the playoffs.
00:49:52 They had three playoff games.
00:49:53 They scored three offensive touchdowns.
00:49:54 Tom Brady was on the field for two of them.
00:49:57 So don't tell me Tom Brady one, one, you know, did all that stuff.
00:50:00 Don't tell me that.
00:50:01 Don't, don't, don't tell me that it's, it's all of them.
00:50:04 Okay.
00:50:05 And yes, yeah, yeah.
00:50:07 B you're right.
00:50:07 I was saying, keep in blood.
00:50:08 So go away, go away, go somewhere else.
00:50:11 Go back to Ohio.
00:50:11 B.
00:50:12 So look, Belichick could have stuck with Tom Brady.
00:50:18 He could have, he could have stuck with Tom Brady with, with, uh, with blood.
00:50:22 So I'm sorry.
00:50:23 But let's look came back healthy.
00:50:24 That was blood.
00:50:25 So his team, people have talked about many times how that's how
00:50:27 the, how that was blood.
00:50:28 So his team, he was incredible.
00:50:31 Right.
00:50:33 Brady of course had the one drive.
00:50:35 Great.
00:50:35 It was, it was an incredible drive.
00:50:37 Oh three and oh four.
00:50:39 It's mostly about defense.
00:50:40 Like that Brady was a good player by then, but it was mostly about defense.
00:50:45 And then obviously, oh seven, you know, from oh seven on really a lot of it was
00:50:50 Brady, but 2018, they won the Superbowl in 2018.
00:50:53 What was the final score of that game?
00:50:55 13 to three.
00:50:55 Oh, 13 to three.
00:50:57 What the Tom Brady's offense was so good.
00:50:59 Tom Brady was so amazing.
00:51:00 They obviously they score.
00:51:01 Oh no, no, no.
00:51:01 They didn't.
00:51:01 Now Brady was incredible in 2017 and they lost.
00:51:05 He was obviously incredible in 2016.
00:51:07 And I'm not saying Brady wasn't good in 20.
00:51:09 I'm not saying that.
00:51:10 Right.
00:51:10 But it's not, you can't look at it and say, well, it was this and it was this and
00:51:15 it was that, and it was this and it was this and P Carroll did not build the
00:51:18 2001 team, please stop with that.
00:51:20 Dude, look at the roster turnover from 1999 to 2001.
00:51:26 He drafted like two of those guys.
00:51:28 He drafted, you got to give him credit.
00:51:30 You want to give him credit for, you know, Ty Law, who by the way was under,
00:51:35 under a Parcells, but you know, I mean, whatever.
00:51:37 Yeah.
00:51:37 There's, I think I, without exactly doing off top of my head, I, were there
00:51:41 more Parcells guys on that one team than P Carroll guys?
00:51:45 I think so.
00:51:45 It wouldn't shock me.
00:51:46 You know what I mean?
00:51:47 And you think about the veteran guys that he brought in that year, right.
00:51:51 In a one and we, you know, Mike Vrabel and Anthony Pleasant and, you know, uh,
00:51:56 Roman Pfeiffer and all, you know, from, from down the line, you know, all of
00:52:01 Antoine Smith, even like, so, so it's like, look, I mean, you know, whatever
00:52:05 we can talk about all that stuff.
00:52:07 Again, the, the argument is not, is not that it was more bill than Brady.
00:52:13 The argument is that it w it's not possible.
00:52:17 It is possible to win one with a mediocre coach.
00:52:20 I agree with that.
00:52:21 It is not possible to be perennially the best team in the NFL for 20 years.
00:52:28 Without both possible without both of those guys, right?
00:52:34 Does Tom Brady win a super bowl without, without bill Belichick?
00:52:38 First of all, he won one anyways, but does Tom Brady win a super bowl?
00:52:41 If he gets drafted somewhere else?
00:52:42 I would say probably yes.
00:52:44 Right.
00:52:44 Probably yes.
00:52:45 But it's, there's not a guarantee that that's going to happen, but I
00:52:49 would say probably yes, he would have.
00:52:50 Does bill Belichick win a super bowl without Tom Brady?
00:52:53 Probably as long as you got a decent enough quarterback, which is like the
00:52:58 whole battle of being a coach is if you can find a decent enough quarterback,
00:53:02 and bill has said it over and over and over and over again, players play the
00:53:08 game, players play the game that that's what it comes down to, right?
00:53:13 You know?
00:53:13 And so look, it's not, I'm not saying that I'm not saying that, you
00:53:17 know, that bill deserves more credit.
00:53:19 I'm just saying that when we look at the list of all time, best coaches, give
00:53:24 me one of those guys that didn't have hall of fame players on this team.
00:53:28 Give me one, just one of those guys that we think is an amazing coach that, that
00:53:33 didn't have hall of fame players in this team, you know, like cricket.
00:53:39 Yeah.
00:53:40 You need it, bro.
00:53:42 I want to go going away from this for a second.
00:53:44 Uh, masterful.
00:53:45 Ask the question.
00:53:46 Do you guys like the current offensive coaches or will they all get scrapped
00:53:49 looking towards the future here?
00:53:50 I like this question because I think it's, we're starting to figure out what
00:53:54 this is going to look like going forward.
00:53:56 Yeah.
00:53:56 I don't think the current offensive coaches are bad, but they
00:53:59 clearly aren't getting it done.
00:54:00 And I also think you can, you can start to do a little math here on what
00:54:05 the future is going to look like.
00:54:06 Yeah.
00:54:07 If they're drafting a quarterback in the first round, you got them under
00:54:10 contract for up to five years, right off the bat, it makes no sense to have a
00:54:15 coach who won't be there for the full thing.
00:54:17 Bill Belichick is 71 years old right now.
00:54:20 I think bill Belichick, if they're go, if they need a new quarterback,
00:54:24 Belichick's probably gone is my, my thinking anyway, regardless of anything
00:54:29 else, and then you add on how bad the losses have been, and I think it kind
00:54:32 of makes it a sure thing that it's going to be somebody new there.
00:54:35 Yeah.
00:54:36 And if you got a new head coach and a new quarterback, you're not keeping
00:54:41 the same offensive coordinator.
00:54:42 You're going to bring in a whole new staff for that side in mind with developing
00:54:47 a young quarterback at this point.
00:54:48 I think there are good coaches there.
00:54:51 I think they'll all find jobs elsewhere and be perfectly fine.
00:54:54 Uh, Bill O'Brien, well, yeah, he'll land on his feet.
00:54:57 Yeah.
00:54:58 I don't know if they're bad, but I think you are going to see new players there.
00:55:01 I also, a new, new coaches there.
00:55:03 I also feel talked about bill, not understanding the modern offense.
00:55:06 I think there's truth there, but I think it's a more nuanced thing
00:55:10 than people give it credit for.
00:55:12 I don't think you can see what bill Belichick's defenses have done against
00:55:16 modern offenses recently and think that, uh, he doesn't understand the modern
00:55:20 offense.
00:55:20 I think he's done a really good job.
00:55:22 Constructing a defense that can be very multiple and do a lot of good
00:55:26 things against modern offenses.
00:55:28 I think his fatal flaw here is that he has missed on evaluating the talent and the
00:55:34 exact personnel you need to run those types of offenses.
00:55:39 And then the clock kind of ran out.
00:55:43 I think if you had known Mack Jones, wasn't the guy a year earlier, he probably
00:55:47 is still here and gets another go at a quarterback, but when you combine the age
00:55:51 and how deep we are into this thing, and now there's so much investment on like
00:55:55 the defensive side of the ball, you kind of need to tear everything down and
00:55:58 reset from a timeline perspective.
00:56:00 I think now you don't really have a choice.
00:56:02 And then, I mean, there's the blowout losses, but there's the fashion that's
00:56:06 happening.
00:56:06 The special teams is bad for a second year in a row.
00:56:09 Chad Ryland is super inconsistent right now, and I'm not going to say he's a bust,
00:56:14 but I don't have confidence and there's a chance that they have missed on two
00:56:17 kickers in a row.
00:56:18 And that's an area of bill specialty.
00:56:20 The punter situation has been really inconsistent now for a little bit.
00:56:24 Um, I mean, like, yeah, he looks worse.
00:56:28 Which Cardona getting worse in the off season.
00:56:30 I don't think that can possibly be on bell ballot check, but also, you know, you
00:56:35 had two long snappers in camp.
00:56:36 What's going on?
00:56:37 What happened?
00:56:37 We might need to see a change with that position if this keeps up.
00:56:39 Um, and the most of the coverage guys have been fine.
00:56:42 I mean, Brenton school are still playing like an all pro and on special teams.
00:56:45 Yeah.
00:56:46 And I think it's clear from some of the stuff that are doing, they have the mind
00:56:48 to get creative there, but I think having not being able to identify the talent that
00:56:54 it takes to be the top offense in this era of football and combined with some bad
00:57:01 draft luck in there, I mean, you don't have, there was rumors they wanted Jalen
00:57:04 Hertz and they were going to take him in a second.
00:57:05 There's rumors.
00:57:06 They wanted Justin Jefferson.
00:57:07 He went to pick before the selection they had for all the bad stuff about
00:57:11 Nikhil Harry, it sounded like it was a toss up between Harry and Brown, two
00:57:15 guys who many thought were similar prospects and Herm Edwards from Arizona
00:57:20 state really sold the kill.
00:57:21 Harry is his high character workhorse.
00:57:24 Great locker room guy who can take no plays off and practice type of thing.
00:57:28 And they, they went the wrong way with it.
00:57:30 Um, and you know, you just get some bad luck in there.
00:57:34 Um, and I just, it's all, it's, it's that combined with some really bad timing and
00:57:41 it's in the moment is going to lead to taking away from Bill's legacy for some,
00:57:46 but you give it five years and I think that's going to go away.
00:57:50 Um, and I think people, people trying to play the question of is it Bill or is it
00:57:55 Brady?
00:57:56 That's a whole like media talk show thing.
00:57:59 I think if you talk to anybody in football, they're going to tell you it's all of
00:58:02 them and more because you can't win it with just the two of them.
00:58:05 I mean, how many we've seen some great coach and quarterback combinations.
00:58:08 Never win super bowls or win only one super bowl.
00:58:13 It's on Julie, our damn arena.
00:58:15 Like, I mean, just never got that on the list, right?
00:58:18 Marv Levy and Jim Kelly.
00:58:19 Right.
00:58:20 Like Philip Rivers was a very quarterback who had some really good coaches in there
00:58:24 and they could never build a team around that.
00:58:28 Peyton Manning won a number, but with different coaches and they kind of saw
00:58:31 rotations there because even with good coaching, they couldn't get it done.
00:58:35 Um, yeah, so to do what they did, it's clearly both of them and more, they
00:58:40 deserve a lot of credit and they might go out on an ugly note this year.
00:58:46 Um, but it's, Bill's going to be built to the end here.
00:58:50 We're going to live with it.
00:58:51 I probably through the end of this season and we're going to see a change of
00:58:53 philosophy that I'm sure is going to come with its own warts that we're going to
00:58:57 have a complaints about by, you know, week five next year when the novelty is worn off.
00:59:02 Right.
00:59:03 A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
00:59:04 And darker gold, you are right.
00:59:05 And that bill Belichick would win his 300th regular season game.
00:59:08 I believe.
00:59:09 Um, if, if that's the case.
00:59:12 So if they win,
00:59:13 wait, how many, how many away is he?
00:59:15 It says it's the next one.
00:59:16 Uh, yes.
00:59:18 Yep.
00:59:18 Next one is 300, 300 regular season.
00:59:20 So, and Mike Larry, no one's making Rex Ryan a stud ever.
00:59:24 So come on, let's, let's not be, let's not be ridiculous.
00:59:27 So, um, and look, and, and so again, the thing that upsets me the most is that
00:59:33 the haters, the bill haters, which have existed since the year 2000 are, are
00:59:39 going to get, are going to get the last laugh here.
00:59:40 And that's the most frustrating part of all for me.
00:59:43 Um, I almost wish, I almost wish that, um, that bill had just left in 2019 with,
00:59:49 with Tom and Tom was in 2019, the bill had left too.
00:59:52 Um, because then at least, at least we could have said, Hey, that's it.
00:59:56 We're done.
00:59:56 You know?
00:59:57 So, or if Tom had retired this, this off season, if Bill had retired too, and
01:00:01 just said, we're leaving the same, you know?
01:00:03 Um, but it just, it is what it is.
01:00:06 And look, ultimately.
01:00:09 I don't care what anyone says is the best coach ever.
01:00:12 I don't care what anyone says is the best coach of all time.
01:00:14 It doesn't matter where he is.
01:00:15 He is quite literally already in the hall of fame for what he did with the giants.
01:00:20 It's a defensive coordinator.
01:00:21 Like he is.
01:00:22 Yeah.
01:00:23 Yeah.
01:00:23 And there's, I mean, this, well, no other side gets paid too.
01:00:26 There's a lot of good coaches.
01:00:27 Like the best coaches all have bad moments.
01:00:30 And I've been in this game for how long now, if, if the worst thing we're
01:00:34 going to say about Bill Belichick is that when he lost multiple greatest of all
01:00:39 time at their position players in a short span, he wasn't able to immediately
01:00:44 recoup players of the same value before he got too old to stick with it.
01:00:49 Yeah.
01:00:50 That that's the kind of the, that's the worst case here.
01:00:52 Right.
01:00:53 And the sad thing is that he had said in that 2009.
01:00:56 Football life.
01:00:57 He had said, I don't want to turn to Marv Levy and be 71 or 72
01:01:01 and have the game passing by.
01:01:02 He said that in 2000 and he's 71 right now.
01:01:07 And here we are.
01:01:09 And it's like, man, like I, you know, he said it, he said he didn't want to do it
01:01:13 and he did it anyways, and it's just like, you know, it's frustrating.
01:01:16 So yeah.
01:01:16 And he was all right.
01:01:17 That's if there's, if there's one thing I think, I hope we see from the rest of
01:01:20 the season, we can talk about it on Wednesday too.
01:01:23 Yeah.
01:01:23 Just go.
01:01:25 I hope that we get to see more young players the rest of the way, just to
01:01:29 evaluate what we have going for me.
01:01:33 I want to know what we have in those guys and what differences it make.
01:01:37 I know when they can keep on white and Marty Mop.
01:01:39 But we're going to see the field here, no matter what, because of where that
01:01:41 defense is right now, and they're going to need both of those guys, but let's.
01:01:44 Let's see the receivers.
01:01:45 Let's see how they look.
01:01:46 Um, right.
01:01:47 If Kevin Harris is worth a look at any point to call up from the practice
01:01:51 squad, I wouldn't hate that.
01:01:52 Although the fact that the Ronnie game has looked like it has, and he hasn't
01:01:55 gotten a call up probably says all we need to know about who he is.
01:01:59 Um, but also let's see the receivers and the offensive lineman.
01:02:03 And if they're not good, I think a couple of those offensive line, when.
01:02:07 They clearly don't love right now.
01:02:09 And if they're not, if they're not going to see the field and work,
01:02:11 that's going to tell us a lot, but I'd like to see how bad they are.
01:02:14 So we know what's going on going forward.
01:02:17 And if they play like this the rest of the way, uh, this is a three, four win
01:02:23 five wind team at best at best.
01:02:25 So we'll say they do play the jets again.
01:02:29 So you never know.
01:02:30 Get the jets with that.
01:02:31 Yeah.
01:02:32 The Broncos defense, the Washington defense, the Vegas defense.
01:02:35 There's a couple, a couple of games there where we might get something on offense.
01:02:38 Let's let's not get shut out next week.
01:02:40 Right.
01:02:40 And by the way, people said that, you know, someone up here saying
01:02:43 that Belichick schemes don't work.
01:02:45 Bro, he, he, they played great defense against two of the best
01:02:51 offenses, the NFL, right?
01:02:53 I don't think people realized, you know, like the Miami dolphins
01:02:57 offense is historically good.
01:03:00 Historically good.
01:03:02 Yeah.
01:03:03 Right.
01:03:03 24 and they held them to 24 points.
01:03:06 And, you know, and so like this defense was no joke.
01:03:10 Now everyone's hurt on this defense now, but like this defense is no joke and
01:03:15 Bill still had it when he was coaching defense, but again, everyone's hurt, you
01:03:19 know, like, and, and this past game was a disaster and obviously the, the, the, um,
01:03:23 the other one was a disaster too.
01:03:25 It just, I don't know.
01:03:26 Yeah.
01:03:27 I think, I don't think he has completely lost it.
01:03:30 I think if he had better players on offense, then things would look a lot
01:03:35 better, but he's also the GM.
01:03:37 And, you know, if there, if this were a world where the team clearly wasn't well
01:03:42 coached, but he was drafting good players, I think you say, Hey, Bill, head upstairs.
01:03:45 You can be the GM.
01:03:46 You can do all that.
01:03:47 If you'd like, we're going to have a different coach come in here.
01:03:49 Um, we can have, you can promote Mayo or Bill O'Brien or whatever you want
01:03:53 to do and keep it in house, but the track record with the offensive players
01:03:57 in the draft recently, it's just, it's not good enough.
01:04:00 I think some of that's probably just bad luck, but like, um, it's not, it's not
01:04:08 enough, I think you gotta, if you're going to do this, you just got
01:04:12 to cut the cord and walk away.
01:04:13 Yeah, I agree.
01:04:14 I agree.
01:04:15 And, and it's, that's difficult.
01:04:17 It's hard to do.
01:04:18 And I understand all of that stuff, but at the end of the day, like, man, he just,
01:04:23 it's hard, you know?
01:04:25 So, um, this is going to be, it's going to be a very, very, very long season.
01:04:34 Yeah.
01:04:35 Um, uh, Bruins first preseason game, I think is tonight or no first real.
01:04:39 No, no.
01:04:41 Wednesday night's first real game for the Bruins.
01:04:44 Okay.
01:04:44 That's pretty good.
01:04:45 Yes.
01:04:45 Well, there you go.
01:04:46 How about that?
01:04:46 Look at that.
01:04:47 Celtics coming up soon.
01:04:48 We're getting there.
01:04:49 Got 12 more Sundays to this.
01:04:51 That's another note.
01:04:53 Scheduling wise, the past are set to have three consecutive
01:04:56 primetime games in December.
01:04:58 Uh, they might be the first team to have a Thursday night game flex out into Sunday.
01:05:03 And they might be the first team to have a Monday night game flexed into Sunday.
01:05:08 Yes.
01:05:08 I don't know if there has that happened.
01:05:10 That actually may have happened already.
01:05:11 The Monday night flex, but, um, I don't know about the Monday night flex, but, but
01:05:16 I can tell you that.
01:05:17 Yeah.
01:05:18 It's it's tough.
01:05:21 Yeah.
01:05:21 It's tough.
01:05:22 And so, and then look, it's a Christmas Eve game.
01:05:24 Can we like, can we announce that that game's changing now?
01:05:26 It just so we can all make our plans in advance.
01:05:28 Yeah, it's not.
01:05:29 Yeah.
01:05:29 Like, come on now.
01:05:30 So nobody's, nobody's watching Pat's Broncos at eight o'clock on Christmas Eve.
01:05:36 That's no, they are not.
01:05:37 No, no, they are not.
01:05:39 So, um, except for us, if it happens, we'll be watching it.
01:05:44 I'll be watching it.
01:05:45 Yes.
01:05:45 It's the way it goes.
01:05:46 You know what I mean?
01:05:46 I'll try to get to bed before Santa comes, but, but I'll get to God.
01:05:50 So anyways, all right, well, that's it.
01:05:53 I we're out of here.
01:05:54 We've, we've, uh, vented enough and, and talked about it enough.
01:05:57 Um, and so one of those games, by the way, is Pittsburgh, which is I'm going to, so
01:06:01 I don't know what the heck's going to happen.
01:06:03 I haven't booked any flights because I, I'm not convinced they're going to keep it
01:06:06 on Thursday night because Pittsburgh stinks too.
01:06:08 So, um, the only thing that could keep that on Thursday night is that new England
01:06:12 and Pittsburgh have massive fan bases that are very devoted and everybody might tune
01:06:16 in anyway, so they might just keep it because it'll do well ratings wise.
01:06:20 Uh, yeah, I just, before we go to, I'm not going to do a trivia question today.
01:06:25 I don't think any of us are in the mood for a new trivia question, but
01:06:28 the one from last Wednesday, the question was who had caught the fourth down
01:06:32 conversion to keep the drive going in the comeback against the saints back in 2013.
01:06:36 The answer was Austin Colley and I'll give a shout out.
01:06:40 Dave Archibald was the one that got that right.
01:06:42 He has a new book out.
01:06:43 I interviewed him a couple of weeks ago called the inches, uh, inches.
01:06:46 We need to talk about how you, uh, how you build a good football team.
01:06:50 So since it looks like we're going to be in the rebuilding process here in new
01:06:53 England, if you want to learn more about how to build a good football team from
01:06:56 the top down from the bottom up, go pick that up and go to read it.
01:07:00 Fantastic.
01:07:01 Great.
01:07:02 That's a good way to end the show.
01:07:03 So, all right.
01:07:05 Well, thanks for, thanks for coming out guys.
01:07:07 The chat was a flying as, as always, I appreciate you guys having
01:07:10 conversations with each other and just, and, and sending in things for us too.
01:07:13 We appreciate that.
01:07:14 So we'll see you guys Wednesday night and, uh, and we'll, we'll talk to you from there.
01:07:18 Hopefully, uh, we'll be talking about, about the Raiders, which we'll, we'll
01:07:22 see what happens.
01:07:23 It's good.
01:07:23 It's going to be, it's going to be an adventure, but we'll be there.
01:07:25 We'll be there.
01:07:26 When this is something new for you on this, on the show, Pat being this,
01:07:30 this depressed this early, huh?
01:07:32 Yeah, it's tough.
01:07:33 It's tough.
01:07:33 But you know, what are you going to do?
01:07:35 We're still here still watching and, uh, you know, and, and we're not going
01:07:39 anywhere whether the Patriots suck or not, we're not going anywhere.
01:07:41 So hope to see you guys Wednesday night.
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