#TheReporters #AhmedPansota #PMLNJalsa #NawazSharif #MaryamNawaz #ShehbazSharif
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Khawar Ghumman - Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain
Guests:
- Hassan Ayub Khan (Analyst)
- Barrister Muhammad Ahmad Pansota (Lawyer)
- Mossarat Qadeem (FAFEN Chairperson)
Ahmed Pansota, Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain's analysis on Practice and Procedure Act
NA General Seats Decreased From 272 to 266 - Experts' Analysis
PMLN Kay Jalsay Mein Kya Log Bina Khanay Kay Nahi Atay?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Khawar Ghumman - Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain
Guests:
- Hassan Ayub Khan (Analyst)
- Barrister Muhammad Ahmad Pansota (Lawyer)
- Mossarat Qadeem (FAFEN Chairperson)
Ahmed Pansota, Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain's analysis on Practice and Procedure Act
NA General Seats Decreased From 272 to 266 - Experts' Analysis
PMLN Kay Jalsay Mein Kya Log Bina Khanay Kay Nahi Atay?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 Assalam-o-Alaikum and welcome to the show The Reporters.
00:16 I am your host, Shaista Yusuf. Today we will talk about some very important issues. First, the case of the practice and procedure act which has been adjourned for a week. It has been adjourned till 9th October. Then the case of the restrictions. Earlier the restrictions were 272, now it has been reduced to 266. We will talk about what has happened and why has it happened.
00:43 We will try to find out when the Qaid Muslim League Noon is coming, what preparations are being made and what the leaders of the Muslim League Noon say about this. We will talk about this too.
00:56 Today, the Apex Committee held an important meeting where many important aspects were discussed. But the most important thing was that we will tell you what was decided. Let's move on to the story. The case of practice and procedure has been adjourned in the Supreme Court.
01:12 The most interesting thing is that this case was dismissed immediately. Today, three big lawyers have given their arguments. These three lawyers have given their arguments.
01:30 It was said that today they will give a decision but then we saw that the decision was not given and now this hearing has been postponed till 9th October. The important points that were raised by the judges and the questions asked by the judges, let's share them with our viewers.
01:50 Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa says that this law affects the Chief Justice and the senior judges. On one hand, the power of the Chief Justice is being limited if not less. On the other hand, this power is being distributed among two senior judges.
02:05 This will affect the future Chief Justices. Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa said that this is why we wanted the full court to hear this case. We want to hear this case and decide. We want to hear this case.
02:19 that we decide between 3 or 5 people, what is problem with you?
02:24 Parliament should be respected.
02:26 Chief Justice Qazi Faiziza said just two things,
02:31 is the Parliament in control of this legislation or not?
02:34 Justice Jamal Mandokhil questioned this and asked,
02:38 is this legislation in violation of a person's rights?
02:43 Then he asked, can the Supreme Court give the power to anyone?
02:50 Justice Aijaz-ul-Ahsan said,
02:53 deciding the cases, forming the benches,
02:56 are the administrative rights of the Supreme Court.
02:59 The law has apparently taken the powers from the Chief Justice and given them to two more judges.
03:03 The powers to make the rules of the Supreme Court have some security.
03:07 Justice Muneeb Akhtar said,
03:09 if the Parliament had given the same powers to the government, then what?
03:14 Justice Shahid Waheed said,
03:17 can the Parliament be considered right to violate the powers of the Supreme Court?
03:24 Justice Mansoor Ali Shah said,
03:26 can the Parliament legislate on the practice and procedure of the court?
03:31 Justice Mazahi Naqvi said,
03:33 the fundamental question is the method of legislation.
03:35 Justice Mansoor Ali Shah said,
03:37 can the legalization of the powers of the Supreme Court?
03:41 Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa said,
03:43 what is the problem with getting the right to appeal in Nazr-e-Sani?
03:47 Justice Aijaz-ul-Ahsan said,
03:49 the fundamental question is not whether the right to appeal can be given or not.
03:54 The question is who has to give the right to appeal and how?
03:58 Justice Aijaz-ul-Ahsan said,
04:00 if the appeal was not given in Article 184(3), then the amendment was not required.
04:05 Justice Aijaz-ul-Ahsan said,
04:07 if the appeal is required, then the amendment can be made.
04:11 Justice Aijaz-ul-Ahsan also said,
04:13 whether the appeal in Article 184(3) has to be given or not.
04:19 These were some important points,
04:21 some important questions,
04:22 which were given as arguments and questions.
04:24 Let's take the opinion of a legal expert.
04:26 Ahmed Pansota, a legal expert is with us.
04:28 Thank you so much for taking out time for the program.
04:31 The law that has been enacted,
04:33 on which this case is being held,
04:35 if the decision is in its favour,
04:37 because the hearing has been postponed till 9th October,
04:40 then what will be its repercussions?
04:42 If the Practice and Procedure Act is maintained,
04:48 and the Supreme Court holds that the Practice and Procedure Act
04:53 cannot be changed as it is,
04:55 then there are 3-4 other things.
04:59 One substance has been done,
05:03 that the proceedings of Article 184(3) in the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
05:06 which is called Article 184(3),
05:08 which also includes the Suomoto,
05:09 and is a matter of public importance,
05:11 and is a violation of a fundamental right,
05:13 a petition is entertained,
05:14 and a right of appeal will be created in it,
05:16 through this local legislation,
05:18 which we will call an Act.
05:22 The Supreme Court's power to do benches will be structured,
05:30 it will exercise the top three,
05:32 apart from that,
05:33 the power of the lawyer to change,
05:36 and similarly so on and so forth,
05:38 so primarily the power of the Supreme Court will be organized,
05:42 which is a fixed case,
05:44 and with that, as I told you,
05:46 there is a substantive right of appeal.
05:48 These are the two main changes,
05:50 which will come under the functioning of the Supreme Court.
05:53 Okay.
05:55 Mr. Ahmed Pansota, stay with us,
05:57 Mr. Chaudhary Ghulam Hussain is also with us,
05:59 Mr. Hassan Ayub is also with us,
06:00 Mr. Hassan, do you want to ask a question to Mr. Ahmed Pansota?
06:02 I wanted to.
06:03 Mr. Ahmed, please tell us,
06:05 if you think that,
06:07 as it was given reference today,
06:08 again and again,
06:09 with reference to the martial law,
06:11 the validation that was done from within the Supreme Court,
06:14 which was taught,
06:15 if we talk about it,
06:16 there was a very famous case,
06:19 Zafr-e-Isha case,
06:20 if you remember,
06:21 in that,
06:22 LFO was endorsed,
06:24 and the right to reform was given,
06:26 to a military dictator.
06:30 So, the things that have been said today,
06:32 aren't they going towards their own self-accountability,
06:34 to the Supreme Court?
06:35 And the wrong decisions that were made in the past,
06:38 which have caused losses to the country,
06:40 weren't they openly expressed?
06:45 I think that these things are very good.
06:48 The law is very good,
06:49 and the same way,
06:50 these things were also very good.
06:51 But, to bring that law,
06:53 these things have also come at the wrong time today.
06:57 I say this with great respect,
06:59 it is a very good thing that the martial law was spoken against,
07:02 and it is a very good thing that the martial law should not be endorsed.
07:05 But,
07:06 the Supreme Court did not do this,
07:08 and after that,
07:09 through judgments,
07:10 it was implemented.
07:13 I think your voice has been disturbed,
07:16 by Ahmed Bansota.
07:17 Ahmed Bansota,
07:18 yes, his voice is not coming properly.
07:20 Let's go to Chaudhary Ghulam Hussain.
07:22 Mr. Chaudhary, if we talk about this,
07:24 apart from practice and direct,
07:25 the scope of the review has been increased,
07:27 and it has also been said that,
07:29 this will be divorced from the past.
07:31 So, what do you think Mr. Chaudhary,
07:33 that the new Pandora Box will not open,
07:35 because there is also an impression that,
07:37 this law has been implemented to give benefit to Nawaz Sharif.
07:41 Yes, that is,
07:43 whoever wants to benefit or lose,
07:45 the basic question is,
07:47 that the work of amending the Ayah,
07:51 can it be done through the law,
07:55 which is below?
07:57 The amendments that have been made,
08:00 under the law,
08:02 are already in the first degree,
08:04 191,
08:05 and you cannot tease the Supreme Court.
08:07 That is the only question.
08:09 And the second is 184.3,
08:11 that is also an amendment in the Ayah.
08:13 So, the Parliament has been doing,
08:15 for a year, six months,
08:17 whatever it has been doing,
08:19 above the law,
08:21 whatever it has been doing,
08:23 our emphasis is on that,
08:25 that you do not tease the rights,
08:27 obligations,
08:29 under the Ayah,
08:31 and the amendments in the law,
08:33 cannot tease the Ayah.
08:35 That is the point.
08:37 Right.
08:39 Hassan Ayub,
08:41 today, the Chief Justice,
08:43 said that we will give the verdict today,
08:45 and since you were present there,
08:47 what did you see,
08:49 why did the matter go ahead?
08:51 Basically, it always happens like this,
08:53 that the deputy chief justice,
08:55 takes more time,
08:57 and says that I will conclude the case in 15 minutes,
08:59 and the NAB amendment case,
09:01 went on for a year,
09:03 and I will conclude it in 3-4 days,
09:05 and it was found that he gave the verdict for a month,
09:07 so this is a normal thing.
09:09 The second thing I will tell you,
09:11 that what the Chief Justice is saying,
09:13 that a constitutional amendment is required,
09:15 to amend the rules of the Supreme Court,
09:17 so I will be asking some questions,
09:19 and the thing is that,
09:21 under Article 199,
09:23 the rules of the Supreme Court have been made,
09:25 and the reason for saying this is,
09:27 that if a constitutional amendment is made,
09:29 then you can make the law,
09:31 that is, the procedure law,
09:33 so basically, if you see,
09:35 the law of the Supreme Court,
09:37 under Article 204,
09:39 the Supreme Judiciary,
09:41 whether it is the High Court or the Supreme Court,
09:43 exercises its powers,
09:45 and in that, the right of appeal is there,
09:47 and the second thing,
09:49 that right of appeal has been given,
09:51 through a simple constitutional amendment,
09:53 and the second thing,
09:55 that the right of appeal of the High Court,
09:57 under Article 199,
09:59 has been given,
10:01 and the third thing,
10:03 that the case of the serious treason,
10:05 under Article 6,
10:07 the case of the serious treason,
10:09 has the right of appeal,
10:11 and you can appeal in the Supreme Court,
10:13 so in Article 184,
10:15 why should there not be a right of appeal?
10:17 You see, look at the past,
10:19 there was a record case,
10:21 did Pakistan benefit from it?
10:23 Let's ask Ahmed Pansota,
10:25 Ahmed Pansota,
10:27 what will you say on this?
10:29 What is your legal opinion?
10:31 The last thing I heard,
10:33 is that the right of appeal is being discussed,
10:35 as I was saying earlier,
10:37 that today's observations,
10:39 and the things that were there,
10:41 were as good as the law,
10:43 but the way they were done was wrong,
10:45 there were no forums where this was discussed,
10:47 and similarly,
10:49 there was no forum of Parliament,
10:51 where this was discussed.
10:53 Now the right of appeal that is being discussed,
10:55 should be the right of appeal of all,
10:57 but to include or incorporate that right of appeal,
10:59 in 184, in my opinion,
11:01 and in the opinion of many others,
11:03 a constitutional amendment is needed.
11:05 Article 185 is there,
11:07 in which the right of appeal is present,
11:09 if the framers of the constitution
11:11 could understand,
11:13 that we have given the right of appeal in 185,
11:15 for proceedings,
11:17 then in 184, it is included at that time,
11:19 because it was not done at that time,
11:21 and today, with the support of Article 191,
11:23 this work is being done through a subordinate legislation,
11:25 I think that if this work is done through IIT Rohingya,
11:27 then it is a very good work,
11:29 or if it is done through a process,
11:31 on which the Parliament is competent,
11:33 and they have legislative competence,
11:35 then it is a very good work,
11:37 but the way it is being adopted is wrong,
11:39 on which I fundamentally object.
11:41 Okay, Beryl, this is a legal matter,
11:45 and a court matter,
11:47 so we all remain a little patient on this,
11:49 and hope that whatever the decision is,
11:51 it is better,
11:53 and we will talk about this matter again,
11:55 but let's move to the second story,
11:57 that the election commission has imposed restrictions,
11:59 some people say that it is a restriction,
12:01 or a delay,
12:03 we know that the restrictions are not 272,
12:05 but they have become 266,
12:07 that means that the restrictions should have been there,
12:09 like the population is increasing,
12:11 but the restrictions have become less,
12:13 yes, the restrictions have become less,
12:15 so Mr. Chaudhary Ghulam Hussain,
12:17 Mr. Bilawal used to say that
12:19 if it rains, then water comes,
12:21 if it rains more, then more water comes,
12:23 so it should have been that
12:25 if the population is more,
12:27 then the restrictions are more,
12:29 the restrictions are more,
12:31 but we see that the restrictions have become less.
12:33 No, they have reduced it,
12:35 because they cannot do much,
12:37 they have to adjust it in the constitution,
12:39 so the assembly is not present,
12:41 and according to that,
12:43 it could not have been,
12:45 so they have taken out a way in between,
12:47 and the seats of Punjab and KP have been reduced,
12:49 and they have gone to some other place,
12:51 so the issue is still there,
12:53 that under what authority has this happened,
12:55 so Mr. Ahmed Panchota,
12:57 without adjusting the constitution,
12:59 are the restrictions possible,
13:01 that they should be reduced,
13:03 that the restrictions should be reduced,
13:05 see, all these things stem from the decision
13:07 of the council of common interest,
13:09 in which two unelected chief ministers
13:11 were elected,
13:13 and the decision of the council of common interest
13:15 was taken,
13:17 and in my opinion,
13:19 the decision itself is wrong,
13:21 and there is no legal basis for that decision,
13:23 but since that decision has been taken,
13:25 and it has been said that there will be a delimitation,
13:27 now in the delimitation,
13:29 their further limitation was that,
13:31 to go out of that thing,
13:33 or to avoid it,
13:35 if there was an increase in the seats,
13:37 then there was a need for a permanent amendment,
13:39 because that cannot be done
13:41 through a local legislation,
13:43 or through an executive order,
13:45 because they had to avoid that thing,
13:47 they reduced their seats,
13:49 you think about it,
13:51 whenever in the world,
13:53 there is a census or a new divorce,
13:55 or something like that,
13:57 then automatically there is an increase in the seats,
13:59 here also, exactly the same thing is happening,
14:01 to prevent that thing,
14:03 because the constitutional amendment
14:05 is not to be done,
14:07 and they are not interested in the census
14:09 or delimitation,
14:11 because then there would have been delays in the elections,
14:13 and they have been successful,
14:15 and the federal elections are also not being held in 90 days,
14:17 at least what is being told to the election commission,
14:19 is not being seen at all,
14:21 this was the purpose which has been achieved,
14:23 so there is no legal debate left in this.
14:25 So, Ahmed Panchota sir,
14:27 which rules have been violated in this?
14:29 So, which work is not being done without elections?
14:31 In Punjab, a lot of progressive work is being done,
14:33 in KP, a lot of terrorism is being done,
14:35 and it is not being done,
14:37 and it is not being done,
14:39 and it is not being done,
14:41 and there is no plan of action to fight it,
14:43 and in the rest of the countries,
14:45 there is a lot of violence,
14:47 so what is the need for you to hold elections?
14:49 Please tell me this.
14:51 Yes, Mr. Chaudhary, you are absolutely right,
14:53 and you are saying a very interesting thing,
14:55 but the need for elections is because,
14:57 when I get the opportunity,
14:59 I refer to the debate of the constitution,
15:01 which we call the preface,
15:03 and it is very clearly written in it,
15:05 that the sovereignty is of Allah,
15:07 and the power is exercised through the representative,
15:09 and this is the basic essence of our constitution,
15:11 which our constitution hinges on.
15:13 Now, leaving that essence,
15:15 we want to do all the work of the world
15:17 from that constitution,
15:19 which has delimitation, which has census,
15:21 we are looking for new things in it,
15:23 in this article 224, they cannot see it,
15:25 but they can see 254,
15:27 in this they go to the 50s,
15:29 the power of the president, everything is ignored,
15:31 they do not want elections,
15:33 without elections, no political government
15:35 will have the will to deliver on the basis of which,
15:37 if anyone else does it,
15:39 I understand that very good work is being done,
15:41 I appreciate those works,
15:43 but once again,
15:45 it is like this,
15:47 that I sit here and start taking decisions,
15:49 even if they are good decisions,
15:51 but I do not have the power to take those decisions,
15:53 and whoever has the power,
15:55 if he takes,
15:57 then there will be sanctity in those decisions,
15:59 and there will be enforcement in those decisions.
16:01 Okay, right.
16:03 Mr. Hassan Ayyub,
16:05 I will come to you,
16:07 but before that,
16:09 let us ask our viewers,
16:11 what is the opinion of the MPs on this matter?
16:13 We say that the level play is not right,
16:15 and the constitution is also a part of it,
16:17 and all our own,
16:19 Mandip Boudin and Sargodha,
16:21 they are made by the will of PMLN,
16:23 and I think
16:25 that this should not happen,
16:27 the election commission of a single party
16:29 should have a very independent opinion,
16:31 and in this,
16:33 the pre-polling is the main tool
16:35 in the elections,
16:37 which is the election.
16:39 A political engineering has started,
16:41 and we are saying that
16:43 the real issue is not the election,
16:45 the real issue is the free and fair election.
16:47 Okay,
16:49 political engineering has started,
16:51 this is what Nadeem Afzal Chandra Sahib is saying,
16:53 Mr. Hassan Ayyub,
16:55 he says that the elections are being held
16:57 by the will of the Noon League,
16:59 and the seats are not being reduced,
17:01 the matter is being raised on delimitation also.
17:03 I am surprised,
17:05 in 2018,
17:07 by the will of the Muslim League,
17:09 definitely this is a constitutional amendment,
17:11 the seats that have been reduced
17:13 under the 25th constitutional amendment,
17:15 that is from 272 to 266,
17:17 the seats that have been reduced,
17:19 this is the date,
17:21 5th June 2018,
17:23 5th June 2018,
17:25 this has been notified,
17:27 and after that
17:29 the seats were reduced,
17:31 so what is the Muslim League's role in this?
17:33 At that time, I think,
17:35 Chairman Tariq-e-Ansaaf was the Prime Minister of Pakistan,
17:37 and this has happened in that time,
17:39 the seats have been reduced,
17:41 now you put the blame of this
17:43 on the Election Commission of Pakistan,
17:45 see, if you start saying the day as night,
17:47 then it will not be night,
17:49 it will be day,
17:51 and if I say the day as night,
17:53 it will not be day, it will be night,
17:55 this is an obvious thing,
17:57 but maybe they are saying this
17:59 because the amendment that the Election Commission has made,
18:01 has been made by the Indoors Federal Government,
18:03 on which the blame is put,
18:05 or the impression is given,
18:07 that this is a constitutional amendment.
18:09 Shahista, you understand,
18:11 in 2018, the 25th constitutional amendment has been made,
18:13 if you want to increase or reduce the seats of the National Assembly,
18:15 for that you need a constitutional amendment,
18:17 you cannot even reduce it a little,
18:19 you cannot increase a little of the National Assembly
18:21 without a constitutional amendment,
18:23 you cannot reduce it a little,
18:25 that is, at this time,
18:27 Chaudhary sir, I am telling you,
18:29 let me complete the point,
18:31 in that, basically,
18:33 the province,
18:35 in that province,
18:37 if supposedly 141 seats of the National Assembly of Punjab,
18:39 then Punjab will have 141 seats only,
18:41 now in that,
18:43 from one district of Punjab,
18:45 I will give an example,
18:47 that maybe the seat of Kasur will increase,
18:49 and the seat of Lahore will decrease,
18:51 this is a possibility,
18:53 or the seat of Hyderabad will increase,
18:55 and the seat of Sakhar will decrease,
18:57 this is a possibility,
18:59 but it is not possible that the seat of Sindh,
19:01 will be reduced,
19:03 from 73 to 72,
19:05 or from 141 to 140 Punjab,
19:07 this is not a possibility,
19:09 this is not a requirement,
19:11 for this, a constitutional amendment is required.
19:13 Yes.
19:15 Now, let's give the audience a shot of Kamran Murtaza,
19:17 then Chaudhary sir will take his opinion on it.
19:19 The preliminary report,
19:21 which he published in the Census Commission,
19:23 in that, 70 lakh population,
19:25 was more than ours,
19:27 and then the final report,
19:29 in that 70 lakh population was reduced,
19:31 when you apply your mind on it,
19:33 then the seats of the National Assembly of Punjab,
19:35 increases, we have 16 seats,
19:37 and for those 16 seats,
19:39 it was possible to increase by more than one-third,
19:41 but in this way,
19:43 he scrapped that one-third,
19:45 now our seats have gone to other provinces,
19:47 and in many places,
19:49 where they have their own demands,
19:51 their own demands,
19:53 there, that seat has been created,
19:55 there, the seat has been made,
19:57 and not only has it been made,
19:59 but small areas have been made,
20:01 so that whoever has to be brought,
20:03 can be easily accommodated.
20:05 Okay, that means, Kamran Murtaza sir,
20:07 Chaudhary sir, are saying that,
20:09 70 lakh population was more than ours,
20:11 but when the final report came,
20:13 then the population of 70 lakhs also reduced,
20:15 and our seats have gone to other provinces,
20:17 where they have their own demands,
20:19 they create seats,
20:21 what is the creation of seats doing?
20:23 These are very serious charges,
20:25 if 70 lakhs were more,
20:27 then how did they reduce it?
20:29 and if it was less,
20:31 then how did it increase?
20:33 and how did they reduce the number of seats?
20:35 I say, instead of 16 seats,
20:37 it should be 46,
20:39 so that their weight is reduced,
20:41 so that people feel the need in Islamabad,
20:43 that there is a right of everyone,
20:45 to make and break the commons.
20:47 It is their right.
20:51 Look, the census that they had,
20:55 they notified it in the Council of Common Interest,
20:57 the representative of JUIF was also present there,
20:59 and if the census that took place,
21:01 at the time of notifying the census,
21:03 all political parties were present,
21:05 you can see a picture,
21:07 it is a photo,
21:09 in which all political parties were present,
21:11 and the census that took place,
21:13 it is a photo,
21:15 No, Mr. Hassan Ayub,
21:17 they are now putting charges of
21:19 changing the elections.
21:21 Look, I have already told you about the National Assembly,
21:23 the thing about Mr. Kamran Murtaza,
21:25 you have played it out of context,
21:27 it is not possible,
21:29 Mr. Kamran Murtaza is a good lawyer,
21:31 Ahmed Panchota is present,
21:33 you are taking advantage of his presence,
21:35 you ask him,
21:37 you are also saying the same thing,
21:39 Ahmed Panchota is present,
21:41 you are taking advantage of his presence,
21:43 you ask him,
21:45 can you do this without the Constitutional Amendment,
21:47 can you reduce the seats,
21:49 or increase them,
21:51 ask him about the National Assembly.
21:53 We are talking about the changes in the elections,
21:55 Mr. Hassan Ayub,
21:57 the changes in the elections.
21:59 The elections within the province can be changed,
22:01 but they cannot go outside the province,
22:03 that is, on 16th,
22:05 the elections within the province can be changed,
22:07 but if the seats are taken from someone else,
22:09 and given to another province, then?
22:11 That is not possible,
22:13 the seats of Balochistan will remain of Balochistan,
22:15 the seats of KP will remain of KP,
22:17 the seats of Sindh will remain of Sindh,
22:19 so that means that there is a change in the elections,
22:21 I am saying that it is not possible.
22:23 So Mr. Shahista,
22:25 why don't we ask Mr. Kamran Murtaza?
22:27 Mr. Shahista,
22:29 this is not possible.
22:31 Then we will have to invite him, Mr. Chaudhary.
22:33 You ask Mr. Ahmed Panchota,
22:35 I want to comment on this.
22:37 Mr. Hassan is saying this,
22:39 about the change in the elections.
22:41 Yes, yes.
22:43 Mr. Hassan is saying
22:45 100% correct,
22:47 that if you have to give the seats
22:49 of the provinces to another province,
22:51 or if you have to do some changes,
22:53 in terms of reduction,
22:55 then that cannot be done without the constitutional amendment.
22:57 The allegations that are being put up,
22:59 from various quarters,
23:01 those allegations,
23:03 it is like you are saying
23:05 that we are ending the parliamentary system.
23:07 But these allegations are so serious,
23:09 that we cannot prove it.
23:11 But Mr. Ahmed Panchota,
23:13 the seats can be shuffled within the province, right?
23:15 Yes, yes.
23:17 But none of us,
23:19 has information about this,
23:21 whether this is happening or not.
23:23 These are just allegations,
23:25 that Mr. Kamran has put up,
23:27 and various people,
23:29 which can be a political campaign.
23:31 If this is happening,
23:33 then this is not a non-issue.
23:35 The answer I gave you earlier,
23:37 was in a different context,
23:39 that all these things are being done
23:41 to delay the elections.
23:43 But is this work effectively,
23:45 is this a matter of shuffling the seats,
23:47 or is the number of seats being increased,
23:49 or is it being done in one province and not in another?
23:51 There is no such proof of this.
23:53 But if any senior political parties are putting up these allegations,
23:55 then those allegations should be taken seriously
23:57 and an investigation should be done before the forum.
23:59 So that you can do this work.
24:01 Exactly.
24:03 Okay, Mr. Ahmed Panchwadi,
24:05 thank you so much for your time.
24:07 We will take a break now,
24:09 and when the break is over,
24:11 we will try to find out
24:13 what are the objections of the Fafan chairperson,
24:15 and what is the election commission's opinion on this.
24:17 After the break.
24:19 Welcome back after the break.
24:21 The matter is that,
24:23 on the basis of the election commission's
24:25 unanimous vote,
24:27 the votes have been counted.
24:29 To talk about this issue,
24:31 we have with us the Fafan chairperson,
24:33 Ms. Musharrat Karim.
24:35 Ms. Musharrat, thank you so much for your time.
24:37 Please tell us,
24:39 what are your objections to these elections?
24:41 Look,
24:43 I cannot object to this,
24:45 but this is our analysis.
24:47 And that is that,
24:49 all the,
24:51 I think,
24:53 the basic principles that have been given
24:55 for the elections,
24:57 that is that,
24:59 there should not be more than 10%
25:01 variation in the population
25:03 for one election,
25:05 than for the other.
25:07 Because we think that,
25:09 our principle of elections,
25:11 of good elections,
25:13 in that,
25:15 we talk about equal suffrage.
25:17 And,
25:19 what this means is that,
25:21 one vote for one person,
25:23 and one vote for one person,
25:25 means that,
25:27 the people of the same population,
25:29 should elect their representative,
25:31 with their vote.
25:33 A simple example of this is that,
25:35 if a population is of 5 lakhs,
25:37 then that too,
25:39 chooses one representative.
25:41 And the population of 15 lakhs,
25:43 that too,
25:45 chooses one representative.
25:47 And this is our,
25:49 in this,
25:51 our,
25:53 see,
25:55 earlier,
25:57 according to the election act,
25:59 you could not cross the boundaries
26:01 from one district to another.
26:03 But,
26:05 the amendment that has been passed,
26:07 from the National Assembly,
26:09 from the Parliament,
26:11 I would say,
26:13 the Parliament approved it on 4th August,
26:15 I think, in 2023,
26:17 so they gave the election commission
26:19 that the boundaries of the district,
26:21 should not be restricted.
26:23 You have to see that,
26:25 the equal number of voters,
26:27 in that,
26:29 the variation,
26:31 the population variation,
26:33 was only 10%.
26:35 But, here we see,
26:37 that the earlier,
26:39 the situation,
26:41 has been the same.
26:43 And if you see,
26:45 Banu, which has 13 lakhs,
26:47 that too,
26:49 chooses one representative.
26:51 And the Chhatral district of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
26:53 that too,
26:55 has a population of 6 lakhs,
26:57 which also chooses one representative.
26:59 So,
27:01 these kinds of problems,
27:03 which we have come out of our analysis,
27:05 we have only highlighted
27:07 on that.
27:09 And this,
27:11 when you,
27:13 when you looked at it,
27:15 you came to know,
27:17 that this quota,
27:19 everyone knows,
27:21 that according to our constitution,
27:23 it is calculated,
27:25 by dividing the population,
27:27 of our province.
27:29 And,
27:31 according to that,
27:33 we,
27:35 we restrict it a little,
27:37 and in that,
27:39 we remove the seats of the provincial and national assemblies.
27:41 So,
27:43 if this is the matter of quota,
27:45 like, if I talk about Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
27:47 then in that,
27:49 the quota calculated for the national assembly,
27:51 is 9,07,913.
27:53 And,
27:55 the capital territory of Islamabad,
27:57 is 7,87,000 something.
27:59 Like this,
28:01 Punjab, Balochistan,
28:03 all are in the range of 9 lakhs plus.
28:05 But,
28:07 if you see,
28:09 when we analyzed,
28:11 the preliminary quota,
28:13 Yes?
28:15 Balochistan's.
28:17 Yes, Balochistan's is 9,30,000.
28:19 Sindh's is 9,13,000.
28:21 Punjab's is 9,55,000.
28:23 I mean,
28:25 I will give you a plus.
28:27 Musarrat Sahiba, my name is Hassan.
28:29 I want to ask you a question.
28:31 See, in the provinces,
28:33 in each constituency,
28:35 there is not much difference.
28:37 But, like you gave an example of Chitral,
28:39 you have seen,
28:41 Chitral is like Gilgit-Baltistan,
28:43 a mountainous area,
28:45 and it is one part of the whole district.
28:47 So, in that,
28:49 they have made it 7 lakhs,
28:51 instead of 9 lakhs.
28:53 But, if you see,
28:55 Islamabad is also a separate entity,
28:57 a separate province.
28:59 Federal is the capital,
29:01 there are no provincial seats.
29:03 So, that is why,
29:05 the election commission of Pakistan,
29:07 has given 3 seats to MNAs.
29:09 So, on top of 3 seats,
29:11 they have divided it,
29:13 relaxed it,
29:15 meaning, 2 lakhs,
29:17 the low-level representative,
29:19 has given a seat to them.
29:21 So, instead of 9 lakhs,
29:23 they have given 7 lakhs.
29:25 So, isn't this thing justified?
29:27 No, actually,
29:29 if we talk about the 787 of Islamabad,
29:31 if you keep it aside,
29:33 and then we just speak about,
29:35 Punjab's 9 lakhs,
29:37 but I will give you
29:39 the example of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
29:41 that if there are 13 lakhs in the mountains,
29:43 then 5 lakhs should not be there in the Chitral.
29:45 Because, see,
29:47 the parliament has approved
29:49 this act itself,
29:51 recently, in 2023,
29:53 that you can cross
29:55 the boundaries of the district.
29:57 You just have to divide
29:59 your constituency
30:01 on the basis of equality,
30:03 or make it lighter.
30:05 And the variation is only 10%.
30:07 Here, the variation,
30:09 which is almost, I think,
30:11 triple or four times,
30:13 then it really makes a difference.
30:15 This is a big difference.
30:17 Apart from that,
30:19 its impact is your national security.
30:21 Okay, Musarrat Sahiba, the political leaders,
30:23 the political leaders are saying
30:25 that whatever is happening in the matter of delimitation,
30:27 this is political engineering,
30:29 and this is being designed
30:31 to make the people of that place,
30:33 the people of that place,
30:35 what is your opinion on this?
30:37 Look, I don't want to go into politics right now.
30:39 It's just that
30:41 maybe they are right,
30:43 maybe they are correct.
30:45 We have analysed the figures
30:47 in front of us.
30:49 Behind that,
30:51 we say
30:53 what are the goals behind it,
30:55 whether they are political or social.
30:57 So, I think,
30:59 I can't talk about it in detail.
31:01 But the statistics in front of me,
31:03 I can analyse it
31:05 and tell you that
31:07 this variation is very high,
31:09 and because according to the law,
31:11 this population variation
31:13 should not be more than 10%.
31:15 Keeping this in mind,
31:17 this delimitation should have been done.
31:19 And because
31:21 we say that
31:23 the people of that place,
31:25 they are not the people of that place,
31:27 we say that
31:29 the delimitation,
31:31 the draft list
31:33 of the constituency,
31:35 it also reflects that
31:37 the Parliament emphasised
31:39 to minimise the population variation,
31:41 it was not, I would say,
31:43 extensively...
31:45 Sir, now the audio of Kadeem Sahiba
31:47 has gone off.
31:49 So, let's take a break here.
31:51 We'll take a break and come back.
31:53 [Music]
31:55 Welcome back after the break.
31:57 And viewers,
31:59 an issue that everyone is waiting for
32:01 and everyone's favourite topic
32:03 is the return of Mian Sahab.
32:05 Is Mian Sahab coming back
32:07 or not?
32:09 And Rana Sanaullah has given a timeline
32:11 for this question.
32:13 And he says that on the request of Noon League,
32:15 Mian Sahab will return to his country
32:17 on October 1st from Lahore Airport.
32:19 He will go to Iqbal Park
32:21 and will give a speech.
32:23 He will be welcomed at Minar-e-Pakistan
32:25 and the Lahore city will be his guest.
32:27 He also said that
32:29 he is confident about the bail.
32:31 And without any hint
32:33 or guarantee,
32:35 Mian Sahab will be relieved.
32:37 What does he say? Listen.
32:39 On the request of Pakistan Muslim League Noon,
32:41 Mian Nawaz Sharif
32:43 will return
32:45 and will lead his community.
32:47 To give a hope to the community
32:49 and to make that hope
32:51 a reality,
32:53 he is coming to Pakistan
32:55 on October 21st.
32:57 He will land in Lahore
32:59 on October 21st
33:01 at 5.30 pm
33:03 at the airport.
33:05 And at 6 pm,
33:07 he will be in Minar-e-Pakistan
33:09 or Iqbal Park.
33:11 So now you heard
33:15 that he is saying that he will land at 5 pm
33:17 and will go to Minar-e-Pakistan
33:19 on October 21st.
33:21 Lahore will be at Minar-e-Pakistan
33:23 and his welcome
33:25 and Lahore city will be his guest.
33:27 What is he saying? Listen.
33:29 In Lahore, at Minar-e-Pakistan,
33:31 for his address
33:33 and welcome,
33:35 people from all over Pakistan,
33:37 from every street, every neighborhood,
33:39 will reach Lahore that day.
33:41 Basically,
33:43 Lahore city
33:45 is his guest.
33:47 After that,
33:49 the address of Mr. Anwar Shree,
33:51 people will listen to it directly
33:53 and the media
33:55 will definitely
33:57 cover that event live.
33:59 And Mr. Rana,
34:01 he also says that Mr. Anwar Shree
34:03 will go directly to Minar-e-Pakistan
34:05 from the airport.
34:07 He has got all the guarantees.
34:09 There is no danger of any kind.
34:11 And he will get relief without any sign.
34:13 Mr. Anwar Shree
34:15 will get a protective bail.
34:17 All the arrangements
34:19 are made by our legal team.
34:21 He will come with a protective bail
34:23 and after the reception,
34:25 he will surrender the case.
34:27 We are sure that
34:29 without any sign or guarantee,
34:31 Mr. Anwar Shree will get this relief.
34:33 Mr. Chaudhary,
34:35 you have heard Mr. Rana Sanaullah's words.
34:37 Are your preparations complete?
34:39 We have no preparations.
34:41 We want him to come.
34:43 He has come on 21st October.
34:45 It is 3rd October today.
34:47 He can come tomorrow.
34:49 He has his own country.
34:51 You have got the ticket of 21st October, right?
34:53 Yes.
34:55 I am saying that
34:57 the politicians
34:59 are happy
35:01 when the politicians come.
35:03 This increases the competition.
35:05 This generates activity.
35:07 This changes the situation of the people.
35:09 You know that
35:11 we have booked
35:13 two motorcycles.
35:15 We did not get the tickets.
35:17 So,
35:19 there will be many incidents
35:21 from today to 21st October.
35:23 The Noon League is making a lot of preparations.
35:25 We want him to come
35:27 in a peaceful manner.
35:29 Mr. Chaudhary,
35:31 there are talks of food and drinks.
35:33 There are talks of biryani plates.
35:35 You are saying that
35:37 there are big issues till 21st October.
35:39 Yesterday, there were talks of Honda 125.
35:41 Today, there are talks of biryani.
35:43 Please listen to that too.
35:45 Sher Nawaz Sharif decided
35:47 that we have atomic bombs.
35:49 He was given greed.
35:51 He was told
35:53 that you can take
35:55 so many billions of dollars
35:57 but do not do these explosions.
35:59 My dear friends,
36:01 may you rest in peace.
36:03 We have arranged
36:05 the best food for you.
36:07 Those who are here,
36:09 they are in their own special names.
36:11 They will eat and leave.
36:13 Please sit in your seats.
36:15 Mr. Zubair is saying
36:21 that he will take people by train
36:23 and arrange food for 50,000 people.
36:25 Biryani is a difficult thing.
36:27 Our plan is
36:29 to take people by train.
36:31 Will you not arrange food for them?
36:33 If you go to Lahore,
36:35 you have to arrange
36:37 accommodation, food,
36:39 refreshments and transportation.
36:41 But biryani for 40,000-50,000 people
36:43 is a very difficult thing.
36:45 Mr. Chaudhary,
36:49 the arrangements are complete.
36:51 Honda, trains, food,
36:53 will be provided.
36:55 No, no, there is no harm.
36:57 Let them arrange.
36:59 I just say that there should be no discrimination.
37:01 Let them do whatever they want.
37:03 They have a right
37:05 like others.
37:07 But do not let them come
37:09 in the train.
37:11 Let them distribute food.
37:13 Let them leave their homes.
37:15 Let them be destroyed.
37:17 Today, in KP,
37:19 the team has ordered
37:21 to let them do the rallies
37:23 and not to arrest them.
37:25 This should be uniform in Pakistan.
37:27 We should run the movement
37:29 according to the law.
37:31 So, this is all about food and refreshments.
37:35 And all the arrangements.
37:37 Mr. Sinaullah says that
37:39 the address of Mr. Mian
37:41 will be his election statements.
37:43 It will be a statement of the past,
37:45 present and future.
37:47 What is he saying?
37:49 The election statements
37:51 or whatever the Pakistan Muslim
37:53 statements are,
37:55 will be on 21st October
37:57 the address of Mr. Mian Nawaz.
37:59 It will be
38:01 on this.
38:03 And God willing,
38:05 on that day,
38:07 he will have a
38:09 very strong discussion
38:11 with the people
38:13 about the past, present
38:15 and future policies of Pakistan.
38:17 Okay.
38:21 It is decided that
38:23 the address will be of the past
38:25 and future.
38:27 But Mr. Sinaullah says
38:29 that he has not forgotten any name.
38:31 The matter will be settled
38:33 with the people
38:35 who have
38:37 crossed the line
38:39 with us.
38:41 No one will forget us.
38:43 Don't worry.
38:45 Everything will be settled
38:47 when the time comes.
38:49 Okay.
38:51 So, Mr. Sinaullah says
38:53 not to worry.
38:55 Although he took a U-turn
38:57 from the statement of the past.
38:59 But he is still giving some threats.
39:01 Mr. Sinaullah, you can answer that better.
39:03 I just want to ask you
39:05 that the link you gave earlier,
39:07 after giving the link, you said
39:09 that you are talking about Biryani.
39:11 The sound bite of Atta Tarar
39:13 does not mention Biryani.
39:15 The person who was saying that
39:17 he was saying that you should eat food
39:19 before going, you called that Biryani.
39:21 Yes, there was a question about Biryani
39:23 from Mr. Mohammad Zubair.
39:25 Mr. Mohammad Zubair said
39:27 that so many people should go
39:29 and eat Biryani.
39:31 Forget about Biryani,
39:33 let's talk about Honda 125.
39:35 Look, we have a show.
39:37 We will talk about things
39:39 that are factually correct.
39:41 I want to correct you factually.
39:43 I am part of this show.
39:45 You said that he must have done
39:47 a statement.
39:49 Yes, I was asking
39:51 that earlier
39:53 he took a U-turn from the statement
39:55 of Mr. Atta Tarar.
39:57 You can say that he is not a policy maker
39:59 about Javed Latif,
40:01 but you cannot say this about Rana Sinhaullah.
40:03 Rana Sinhaullah has also said
40:05 the same thing.
40:07 He has said that you should wait
40:09 for this. On 21st October,
40:11 the former Prime Minister
40:13 Mr. Mohammad Nawaz Sharif
40:15 will come and tell
40:17 what his political narrative
40:19 will be.
40:21 So, the narrative has to be given by
40:23 Muslim League Nawaz.
40:25 If they have the narrative,
40:27 it is good for them.
40:29 If they don't have it, then enjoy.
40:31 I cannot say anything about the narrative.
40:33 But I can tell you one thing
40:35 that the current
40:37 national situation
40:39 I am seeing all over the world.
40:41 All the television channels,
40:43 even the media,
40:45 they are discussing the same thing.
40:47 We don't have much time.
40:49 When Mr. Mian will come,
40:51 we will know about the address.
40:53 If we talk about the APEC Committee,
40:55 it is a very important matter
40:57 and very important decisions have been made today.
40:59 It has been decided that the deadline
41:01 for all foreigners is given till 1st November
41:03 that they sell all their goods
41:05 and go back. If they want to stay in Pakistan,
41:07 they will stay legally.
41:09 It is a very good decision.
41:11 We say that the time has come.
41:13 It is a very good decision.
41:15 You see that those foreigners
41:17 who are living in Pakistan
41:19 and in their support,
41:21 they are doing terrorism activities
41:23 in the country.
41:25 So, sending them to their
41:27 respective countries
41:29 is a good step.
41:31 And today, for the first time,
41:33 we saw that after a long time,
41:35 all the forces,
41:37 all the Pakistani forces,
41:39 all the heads are sitting.
41:41 And the country,
41:43 with the mission clean-up,
41:45 they have found a way forward.
41:47 There are hopes for improvement.
41:49 And the deadline of 28 days
41:51 is given. I hope that within 28 days,
41:53 people will leave from there.
41:55 And those who will not go,
41:57 then we will not stop them.
41:59 It is a good thing that we are
42:01 attacking the path of progress.
42:03 And all the people are sitting together,
42:05 which should have happened long ago.