The Jeremy Kyle Show 6th December 2011
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00:00Coming up on today's show, a woman here to find out if her fiancé slept with her sister.
00:05You had full sex with him?
00:06Yeah, full sex in the bathroom.
00:08Three days after your sister gave birth?
00:10Yeah.
00:10Well, why would you do it then to your sister?
00:12Because I wanted to get her back.
00:13So you had sex with her boyfriend just to get her back?
00:16Yeah.
00:16How sure are you that you're telling the truth?
00:17Because I know I'm telling the truth.
00:19But how will the sister react to her allegations?
00:22You need to tell the truth, Stephen, yeah?
00:25Tell the truth.
00:26Shut up, yeah?
00:27Shut up, Terry, I swear to God.
00:29Yeah, wait, I'm sorry.
00:30You've lost your knees, you wish.
00:32Oh, yeah, it's you too.
00:33Why are you knocking on your door?
00:35To slap you up.
00:36The woman here to prove that her ex is the father, even though he says the baby is too white to be his.
00:42You are a dirty, no-good, rotten, stinking tramp.
00:47So why do you stick around for that nasty...
00:50Because, you know why?
00:51Because see this here, this ruled this here.
00:54And a son here to confront his father after a childhood of abuse.
00:57How many nights did you have him?
00:59Do you want to take me on?
01:00I'm right up for it.
01:01How many nights did you have him in 25 years?
01:04He was at my house for three nights.
01:05Three nights?
01:06Yeah, and then...
01:06He told me he was...
01:07Praise the Lord above!
01:09Any idea what being a father's all about?
01:11That's all on my show.
01:12It's next.
01:13Good morning and a big, big welcome to the show.
01:35Now, before new shows start next week, I'm taking the opportunity to look back at some of my most memorable moments from 2011 and check out how the guests are getting on now.
01:44You might just remember my first guest today, Charlene, who came onto the show to find out if her fiancé, Stephen, had slept with her sister when their baby was just three days of age.
01:53Stephen claimed that Sister Terry was lying and they both took lie detector tests.
01:57Who was telling the truth?
01:58Take a look at this, my friends.
01:59You really want to do this?
02:03It's a very difficult day.
02:04Let me just, while you gather yourself together, you've been with Stephen for 15 months, engaged for a year.
02:10They have a four-month-old daughter together.
02:13And he's four-year-old son.
02:15Everything was fine until literally a few days ago, which is why the show was contacted.
02:20Tell everybody what happened.
02:21Basically, I had an argument with my sister on the Saturday.
02:24Sherry went to go take my four-month-old baby girl over to see one of her friends.
02:27I didn't have a problem with that.
02:29First of all, I said no because she stunk of alcohol.
02:31And I said, no, Terry, no.
02:33But then she just got on my nerves.
02:34So I shut her up.
02:35I said yes.
02:36Then I have my little sister running back saying, Charlene, Charlene, Terry's got into an argument.
02:40Then I look and some other girl, I'm not saying who, but I do know her, had my daughter in her arms.
02:45I said, why is my daughter screaming her head off?
02:47She's like, because some guy pushed Terry with the baby in her arms.
02:50So I've gone over there and I was like, who the hell pushed my sister with my four-month-old baby?
02:55I want to know now.
02:56Then I'm getting told that Terry started it.
02:58She started the argument with my baby in her arms.
03:01And then someone says to her, what would have happened if you pushed you too hard?
03:03She said, well, the baby would have fell, innit?
03:06You then got very angry with your sister because she started a fight holding your baby.
03:10And then all of this came out.
03:11What happened?
03:12Basically, I was arguing with her and saying to her, look, Terry, at the end of the day, don't be coming up in my face, screaming in my face, yeah?
03:18At the end of the day, you're a child.
03:20I'm a mum now.
03:21I'm a mum of two.
03:22I'm doing what I can to protect my child.
03:24And she took me around and said to me, at the end of the day, Charlene, America should never have been born to have parents like you and Stephen.
03:30And then I took me around and said, we had an argument.
03:31America?
03:32Americus.
03:33Americus.
03:34Americus.
03:35Okay.
03:36And then we had an argument and then she went quite through it.
03:40Well, then she's like, Charlene, Stephen's been cheating on you.
03:42Ask him, ask him.
03:43I'm like, who then, Terry?
03:44Who?
03:44And Stephen's like, who then, Terry?
03:46Come on.
03:46And Terry's like, I'm not saying arc Stephen, arc Stephen.
03:49I was like, well, who then, babe?
03:50And he's like, ask her a paper.
03:51I'm oblivious to what she's saying.
03:53And I was like, okay then.
03:54And then Terry's like, I said, no, Terry, you're giving it all the big one.
03:56You want to run your math?
03:58You tell me.
03:59And she went, what about the name Terry?
04:00And then she run.
04:02And then all through the park she was saying, I have Stephen.
04:06She first thought it was in the kitchen.
04:07Then it was in the bathroom.
04:09Then it was upstairs in the bedroom.
04:11But if he did, I'd like to know how.
04:13Because at the end of the day, he only had an hour while I went with Green.
04:17And he packed all the stuff.
04:18And when I mean all the stuff, I mean babies buggy, the baby stuff, the Christmas presents, everything.
04:23Slow down just a little bit.
04:25So at a family party, your sister starts a row.
04:27You tell her to watch it because she's older than you're kids.
04:29She then drops into the conversation your boyfriend of 15 months has cheated and says it was her.
04:34You're saying that she says they've had sex how many times?
04:37Once.
04:38But she keeps changing her story.
04:41First it was in the bathroom.
04:42Then it was in the kitchen.
04:43Then it was in her bedroom.
04:44What about him?
04:44Did you confront him?
04:45What did he say?
04:46He's just done no more and promised me and swore on his kid's life.
04:49Babe, I'm telling you the truth.
04:50I won't do that to you.
04:51I love you.
04:51He has swore on his kid's life?
04:53Yeah.
04:53So today you come on the Kyle Show, you do a lie detector.
04:55Is it either your boyfriend of 15 months, the father of your child or your sister who is lying to you?
04:59That's why it's a difficult day for you because somebody important and close to you is lying.
05:03Someone is lying.
05:04At the end of the day, if he's lying, he's lost his baby.
05:07We'll talk about that later.
05:09Either way, she's in the wrong.
05:11Because if she's telling the truth, she's sick.
05:13If she's lying, she's sick.
05:14Should you get him out?
05:15Yeah.
05:15We're going to sort this out.
05:16This is your partner of 15 months.
05:17Stephen is on the show that way, guys.
05:27You're not lying, are you?
05:29Are you lying?
05:29I love you.
05:30Are you lying?
05:31No, I'm not.
05:32Okay.
05:34Stephen, welcome to the show.
05:35Sit down.
05:35Why are you crying?
05:37Just of all the aggravation that has caused and it come into this decision.
05:41But I wanted to prove myself guilty.
05:43Well, that was Freudian, wasn't it?
05:50No.
05:52Not guilty.
05:53Why would Terry do this?
05:54In your mind, you said it's ridiculous, it's made up.
05:58Why would this girl make this up?
06:00Tell me.
06:00She's done it near enough three times.
06:02I'm the third person she's done it.
06:04She's done it before?
06:04Yes.
06:05Yes.
06:06Whatever guy I'm with, Terry has to say she's slept with him, she's done this, she's done that.
06:10She's jealous.
06:10She's jealous because I've got the perfect life.
06:12I've got the family.
06:13I've got a perfect boyfriend.
06:15I've got kids.
06:16At the end of the day, yeah.
06:17Then why don't you believe him and just do one?
06:19Why are you here?
06:20Because, I don't know, the way they've been with each other, you don't tell me when I'm
06:25going out with my mum that you're not going to be drinking with my sister.
06:27I wake up the next day and you've been drinking with her.
06:30Have you slept with Terry?
06:31No.
06:32You sit here today and you say, you know what, I'm going to stand by this.
06:34This is ridiculous.
06:35This is made up.
06:36This is her trying to, through allegations, ruin our life.
06:39Yes.
06:39You're going to pass?
06:40Yes.
06:40Why do you look so nervous then?
06:41Because I just want it all sorted now.
06:44Because all I can say is literally, all she wants to do is sign on.
06:50Better get a bit of that.
06:51Get a bit of that down her neck.
06:53You are going to pass?
06:54Yes.
06:54And if he passes, he moves back in, she's gone.
06:56What if he is lying?
06:58Bye.
06:59See you later.
07:00Go away.
07:00Are you lying?
07:01No, it's all.
07:03OK, now after the break, we'll find out how sister Terry responds to Charlene's accusations
07:07and we'll get those all-important, crucial lie detector results.
07:10I'm right back.
07:11Are you lying?
07:12It's your last chance to tell me they can cut it out.
07:14Are you lying?
07:15I'm not lying.
07:15I've got one card.
07:18They both took a test.
07:19We asked Stephen since the start of your relationship with Charlene if you had sexual contact with Terry.
07:25He said no.
07:55Thank you very much indeed.
08:15Welcome back.
08:15Now today we're looking back at my most memorable shows of 2011.
08:19And before the break, we met Charlene who was desperate to discover if her fiancé had slept with her sister.
08:25Let's find out now how sister Terry responded to Charlene's allegations.
08:30She said to us, Charlene, that literally three days ago at a family party, your sister Terry gets involved in an argument when she's told her your baby.
08:36When you confront her, she throws out this allegation she's had sex with your partner.
08:41You both tell me it has devastated you, the allegations, the turmoil, everything.
08:45You say she's got a reputation.
08:46You're the third bloke that you've been out with.
08:48She's done it for.
08:48She said she's done it because she hates my guts.
08:52You bring him here for lie detector results.
08:53You're in the most unenviable position.
08:55I'm totally on your side today.
08:56You either find out that this person here is a liar and a cheat, or you find your own sister would do that.
09:01Now, I understand, because I told you I'd help you, that right now you don't want anything to do with this woman.
09:05She's backstage.
09:06She's pacing, right?
09:07You sit here with him.
09:08I have to.
09:09The way this show is, I have to hear both sides, okay?
09:11We are going to get there.
09:12Stay there and relax and leave it to me, right?
09:15I'm going to go and see her backstage.
09:16I'm going nowhere near you at the moment.
09:17You just relax and take it easy.
09:19We need, though, Charlene, bear this in mind.
09:21We need the truth.
09:22That's the whole point of coming here today.
09:25Terry is backstage in one of our green rooms.
09:28She is Charlene's younger sister, as I said.
09:30And three days ago, she makes this allegation, an allegation that she has slept with her sister's boyfriend three days after she gave birth.
09:40What sort of woman would say that?
09:42What sort of woman would sleep with her sister's boyfriend?
09:44Take a seat.
09:46Go on, then.
09:47What sort of woman would do that?
09:48Well, a girl would do that, then.
09:50Because it takes two, innit?
09:53It takes two.
09:54What happened?
09:54Tell me what exactly happened.
09:56We were in the kitchen.
09:57The reason why we've done it is because he wanted to get back to Charlene.
10:00You are saying that you were in the kitchen and he tried it on with you, yeah?
10:04Yeah, and then he come into the bathroom and saw us.
10:07You had full sex with him?
10:08Yeah, full sex in the bathroom.
10:10Three days after your sister gave birth?
10:12Yeah.
10:12What does that make you, then?
10:14A ****.
10:14And him?
10:16A ****.
10:17Well, why would you do it, then, to your sister?
10:18Because I wanted to get her back for all she's done to me.
10:21So you had sex with her boyfriend just to get her back?
10:23Yeah.
10:24How sure are you that you're telling the truth?
10:25Because I know I'm telling the truth.
10:26Definitely?
10:27Definitely.
10:28Do you not feel sorry for her, then?
10:29Of course I feel sorry for her.
10:31She's a **** sister, man.
10:32Well, that's why you slept with her boyfriend, then, yeah?
10:33Yeah, well, it had to be, innit?
10:34What do you think that makes her feel?
10:36Well, she wants to slag me off and put me on TV like I've had all these different makes...
10:40What about the other times that apparently and allegedly you had sex with her other boyfriends?
10:44Is that true?
10:44No, it's not true!
10:46Okay, money asked you.
10:46JK, I swear it's not.
10:47You can even ask Mum up.
10:48So you haven't got a reputation of sleeping with her ex-boyfriends?
10:52No, I haven't.
10:52But you absolutely...
10:53I have to take a lie detector for that as well, if you want.
10:55You absolutely say that you and E had sex...
10:59You need to tell the truth, Stephen, yeah?
11:02Tell her...
11:03Shut up, yeah?
11:05Shut up, Terry, I swear to...
11:06Yeah, wait, I'm sorry.
11:07You've lost your knees, you wish.
11:09Oh, yeah, to you two.
11:10You're knocking on your door to smack you up when she's 18.
11:14Sit down, sit down, sit down, and ask your...
11:16You sit there, I'll be like, no.
11:19You sit there.
11:19You're lying.
11:20Oh, shut up, man.
11:22Oh, you're a dirty...
11:23You want to do...
11:25What do you want to drink yourself, silly?
11:29Yeah, I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad I drink, yeah?
11:33And you, you small weed, you...
11:36Yeah? Oh, shut up, man, sit down.
11:39No, I'm not sitting down, I'm not listening to none of you,
11:41I'm not sitting down, look, I'm standing,
11:43what the fuck are you going to do, blood?
11:45If you're telling the truth, shut up.
11:48Why should I shut up?
11:49Why, because you lot want to open up your mouth, no?
11:51I'm keeping my mouth open.
11:52I know what I think, right?
11:54I know what I think.
11:56More than anything, today,
11:59one person close to you has lied and my sympathy is with you.
12:03I understand more than you will appreciate how you view this, right?
12:07You think Stephen's lying, I can see it in your face.
12:11I'll tell you what I do know.
12:12What?
12:12You need the truth.
12:14I do not want to be anywhere near her.
12:16All right, I'll bring you on stage, I'll leave her in the green,
12:18when you on stage with Stephen, all right?
12:20Come on.
12:20Come on, let's go and do it.
12:22Give a round of applause, there, gentlemen.
12:23Come on.
12:23It's okay, you okay?
12:25It's okay.
12:27I'll give you everything, please.
12:29Do you, um...
12:30I just, I just...
12:32I just, I just want to say one thing, right?
12:35I have to give you the opportunity to do what you want and be as...
12:37You better not be lying, I'm telling you, Stephen.
12:38Please look at me.
12:39The most important thing is that we wanted to give you the opportunity to face that,
12:43but this is for you, this is how you feel comfortable.
12:45That's what this show's about, you sit and relax.
12:48You better not be lying.
12:49So let me just recap, we have a sister, how old's Terry?
12:5219.
12:53Full of it.
12:55Saying, and I quote, that she had three days after you gave birth to your child,
13:00sex with your boyfriend, Stephen.
13:03He says this is absolutely not true.
13:05This is her, because that's what she does.
13:09Do you have any idea what's going to happen if you fail this?
13:11I know what's going to happen, but I'm here to prove myself.
13:14We're going to do this?
13:16Are you lying?
13:17It's your last chance to tell me they can cut it out.
13:19Are you lying?
13:20I'm not lying.
13:22I've got one card, they both took a test.
13:24William, please.
13:27Read Stephen's first, please.
13:29I've got one card, though.
13:30We asked Stephen since the start of your relationship with Charlene
13:45if you had sexual contact with Terry.
13:49He said no.
13:52Your boyfriend was lying.
13:55I'm lying!
13:56Get off me!
13:58Charlene, Charlene, listen to me.
13:59Listen, listen, listen, it's a me.
14:01Listen to me, listen to me.
14:02Read Terry.
14:03I will, if you look at me, you are a mother,
14:05and shall I tell you something?
14:06Look at me, not him, look at me.
14:08Look, you are infinitely better than both of them by a million miles.
14:12Do not look at me, look at me.
14:14Don't even give them the time of day, darling.
14:16You are better than both of them put together.
14:18I'm so sorry, I know him.
14:20Where do you want to go?
14:22Where do you want to go?
14:23Do you want me to tell you?
14:24To that!
14:25I wouldn't worry about that at the moment.
14:27Since the start of your relationship with Charlene,
14:28have you had sexual intercourse with Terry?
14:31He said no.
14:32He was lying throughout the test, your boyfriend.
14:34Terry was telling the truth.
14:35She was telling the truth.
14:37She was telling the truth.
14:38Now, it doesn't make what she did any better,
14:40but all of that stuff...
14:42Right, we're sitting here, you and me.
14:43John, we're all right.
14:43Just...
14:44Dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, dad.
14:45I'm 45, look at me.
14:47Look at me.
14:48I want to speak to Stephen after.
14:51We'll speak to Stephen.
14:53But that...
14:54Look at me.
14:54Please bear this in mind.
14:56Please look at me.
14:58The only way we can ever do this
15:00is when people want to do it
15:01and checks are made in the controlled environment, right?
15:03Yeah.
15:04You have a four-month-old child...
15:06Yep.
15:07...who deserves its mother...
15:09Yep.
15:09...whatever happens beyond that, right?
15:11Yep.
15:12Just imagine you leave here and you think,
15:14oh, I'm going to do that.
15:15You...
15:15I'm not going to touch any of them.
15:16Do you know the...
15:17Do you know my mum, who is 80,
15:19do you know what she always says to me?
15:20What?
15:20Do you know the best way to treat people
15:22when they've dumped on you or treated you badly?
15:24Do you know the best way?
15:25What?
15:25Ignore them, because they're not worth anything.
15:28Seriously.
15:29She was telling the truth, though.
15:37That doesn't make what she did right.
15:38But he's a liar.
15:39It's all right.
15:39I know what I'm going to do now.
15:40Terry, you know what's going to happen now.
15:42Remember what I said to you on the phone?
15:43It's going to happen.
15:44Guess what?
15:44I'm calling you in the police as well.
15:46Go on, then.
15:46No, don't give a...
15:47I told you I won't...
15:48I'm lying.
15:48I think you need to understand something.
15:51At 19 years of age,
15:52trying yourself to somebody else's boyfriend,
15:54why don't you go and deal with your own damn life?
15:59Just relax, right?
16:04Just relax.
16:04Just sit, sit, sit.
16:05Not him.
16:06What?
16:07You give the suitcase to me, not him.
16:09That's got all my money in my life.
16:10Your sister was telling the truth.
16:12I need to talk to your sister.
16:13You need to promise me something.
16:14Look at me.
16:15Don't move from here.
16:16So what were you playing at, then?
16:18Nothing just happened, didn't it?
16:20What?
16:20It just happened.
16:22It's your sister's boyfriend.
16:24Yeah.
16:25So you come on this show,
16:26you prove you're telling the truth.
16:27What you expect everybody to give you applaud,
16:28it's now, do you?
16:29No, did I say that?
16:30Did I say that?
16:30No, never.
16:31Oh, drop the attitude with me, darling.
16:32You're 19 years of age.
16:33Your sister and a baby and it's devastated.
16:35Oh, well.
16:36You don't care.
16:37It takes both of us,
16:38not just me, yeah.
16:39Yeah, no, no.
16:39He's going to get his comeuppance,
16:40but you know something.
16:41You need to drink less,
16:42get yourself a job and stop being jealous.
16:44I don't drink no more.
16:45Jealous of your sister because she's got a life,
16:47you know?
16:48You've got to grow up.
16:48Yeah, well, I told the truth, innit.
16:49Whatever, love, whatever.
16:51At the end of the day,
16:59I know when I'm at...
17:00You looked as guilty as sin
17:00the minute you came out, all right?
17:02I don't mind.
17:03You can say that.
17:04You did it, didn't you?
17:05No, I did not.
17:05Oh, here we go.
17:06Come on.
17:06No, I didn't.
17:07You were crying.
17:09You looked guilty.
17:10Your eyes were out on stalks.
17:11So, what do you...
17:12Let me tell you something.
17:13Hold on, how do you think me to feel, huh?
17:14How do you think, huh?
17:16If I was here,
17:17but at the end of the day,
17:18you think that.
17:19But I know I'm telling the truth.
17:20At the end of the day,
17:21I know what I could have lost.
17:23She's a liar
17:24and she's a big-time liar.
17:26She's done it all the time.
17:27Sorry, you.
17:28That's fine.
17:28You think what you want.
17:29I know.
17:30I know what's in my heart.
17:31I know what's in my heart.
17:33I know what's in my heart.
17:35Whatever.
17:35That's fine.
17:36You say whatever.
17:37You and Terry have probably done
17:39the most disgusting thing that you can
17:41to a woman who doesn't deserve anything.
17:42I know she don't deserve it.
17:43Charlene, do you want to talk to him?
17:45I will after the show.
17:47I don't want to talk to him right now.
17:48I don't want to look at his face.
17:50Nothing to say.
17:51Nothing to say.
17:52Not even man enough to admit it.
17:53I don't need to admit it
17:54because I'm not hiding nothing.
17:55I just told you.
17:56I'm looking blatantly in your face.
17:57Here's the thing, my friend.
17:58You both took a lie detector.
18:00She passed and you failed.
18:01How does that work out?
18:02Quite easy.
18:03I know I'm telling the truth.
18:04I know what she's like.
18:06Shall I tell you the worst thing
18:07that you have to hold on to?
18:08Because one thing I don't disagree
18:10with you about
18:11and I will be talking to Charlene about
18:13is, you know,
18:13you can be the worst boyfriend in the world
18:16who doesn't make you a bad parent.
18:16I'll talk to her about that.
18:18But you know what's really interesting?
18:19You will never find somebody like Charlene.
18:21She is infinitely better than you
18:23and her sister put together, mate.
18:25Seriously.
18:26Say what you want to say
18:27and you start.
18:27In fact, you know what?
18:28You know what?
18:29Why don't you go off with a little sister
18:31because you probably deserve it.
18:32I don't know if I could.
18:33Whatever.
18:34I've got a headache now.
18:35See ya.
18:36Shut up.
18:37Honestly, honestly, honestly.
18:47So I know what I'm going to do now.
18:48I've got my little girl at his mum's.
18:50I'm going to go pick her up.
18:51I'm going to take her home
18:52and I'm going to live my life
18:53with my baby girl.
18:54I've got my little girl.
18:56I was a mother to his mum for a year
18:58and three months
18:59he was calling me mummy.
19:01I've got my little girl.
19:02Terry Stephen dropped dead.
19:04I've got my little girl.
19:05I know that probably
19:07when we're doing this show, right?
19:08Do you know what the best thing is?
19:09Probably not.
19:10She looks like me
19:11so I ain't even got to look at her
19:12when she reminds me of her dad
19:13because she looks like her mummy.
19:15Can I say something?
19:16What?
19:16Thank God for that.
19:18She doesn't look like her mummy.
19:19She's gorgeous.
19:20There is one thing, though.
19:22I get the pleasure of first words,
19:23first steps, first tooth, everything.
19:26Not him, not Terry.
19:28Just me, her mummy.
19:29You've got to be really careful, though.
19:30One thing, right?
19:31And you know what I'm going to say to you.
19:32I'm only going to say to you
19:33when you look at me, right?
19:34Old man speaking.
19:35Old man alert.
19:36You're not that old.
19:37Thanks very much.
19:38I feel it.
19:40You can be the worst partner in the world.
19:42You can be a liar and you can be a cheat, right?
19:44Your daughter,
19:45she has to decide for herself
19:46somewhere down the line.
19:47Once a week, contact, done.
19:49Can't offer no more than that.
19:50That's me being fair.
19:51No, we'll sit and we'll talk about that.
19:52But shall I tell you one thing?
19:53What?
19:54You walk away from here
19:55with your dignity intact,
19:56with your head held high.
19:57Look at me.
19:58You don't lower yourself to their level.
19:59I'm not.
20:00Stephen can even travel back with me.
20:01You let us put...
20:03I don't exactly know what you're going to do.
20:05You're just going to go,
20:06look what you've lost, aren't you?
20:07Yeah.
20:08I will stand there
20:09in his mum's house later.
20:11I will give his mum this card.
20:12I'll be like,
20:12your son's a liar.
20:14Come on, Americas.
20:15Let's go.
20:16And I will go home
20:16and I won't even look at him.
20:18I will turn my head
20:19and I will burst into laughter.
20:21He's lost the best thing
20:22that ever happened to him.
20:23I agree.
20:24The best thing I've got.
20:27And I've always said to him,
20:28my second child will not be with you.
20:31And guess what?
20:32Who was right?
20:33We'll sit and we'll talk about the contact.
20:35I hate to have to read
20:36that sort of stuff out.
20:37I'm sorry for you,
20:38but at least you found out the truth.
20:38I'm not upset.
20:39I'm not gutted.
20:40His loss.
20:42I've got my daughter.
20:44I've got my baby.
20:45Nice to meet you.
20:46So I've been in contact
20:50with Charlene, Stephen and Terry.
20:51This is what they said.
20:52Charlene and Stephen says,
20:53despite what happened,
20:54the three of us have learned
20:54to be civil for the sake of our family.
20:56We decided to put
20:57what happened behind us.
20:58Our engagement is still on.
21:00We're concentrating on giving our daughter
21:01the best upbringing we can
21:02and we're looking forward
21:03to the future together.
21:05Terry, Charlene's sister told me,
21:06since the show,
21:07things have got better.
21:08I love my sister
21:09and although we still argue
21:10about what happened,
21:11we've tried to move on, Jez.
21:12I don't talk to Stephen,
21:14but I'm focusing on being there
21:15for Charlene and my niece.
21:17Good to hear they've moved on
21:18from what happened,
21:19more importantly,
21:19for the sake of their family
21:20and we wish them
21:21the very best of luck
21:22for the future.
21:23Right up next,
21:24the woman here
21:24to prove her ex is the father,
21:26even though he says
21:27the baby is too white to be his.
21:29Don't go anywhere,
21:30my friends,
21:30because I'm right back.
21:31He jumps over the fence
21:33looking for sex
21:33and calls up drunk
21:35playing reggae love songs.
21:37Love songs down the face.
21:41That work?
21:42Oh no, God,
21:43no, I can't stand him.
21:44He makes my skin crawl.
21:45Welcome back
21:56and thanks for joining me
21:57as I continue to revisit
21:58the most memorable shows
21:59from 2011.
22:01My next guest, Debbie,
22:02came to the show
22:03to confront her ex, Danny.
22:04Debbie says her ex
22:05cheated on her regularly
22:06and even got two other women pregnant.
22:08She was adamant
22:09she was going to prove
22:10Danny was the father to her child
22:11despite him saying,
22:13check this,
22:13the baby was too white to be his.
22:16Look at what happened.
22:18This is about you and Danny.
22:20You were in an on-off relationship
22:22with Danny for four years.
22:23Yeah.
22:23You've got an eight-month-old son.
22:25You say you're here today
22:27to prove that the baby is his.
22:29I know he's his.
22:30Absolutely no.
22:30A million percent.
22:31OK.
22:33Let's talk to begin with then
22:35to make it simple
22:36where the doubts come from.
22:37His doubts.
22:39He's just a dog.
22:41He's a dog as far as I'm concerned.
22:43He's cheated on me
22:44for four years
22:45with two of the same women.
22:48Got him pregnant.
22:49Why did you stay with somebody
22:50that did that then?
22:51I was absolutely besotted
22:53and 100% in love with him.
22:55I tell you that myself.
22:55I loved him
22:56like I've never loved anybody.
22:58I know I would never ever love anyone
23:00that same way again.
23:01You say he was a liar
23:02and a cheat from the start, right?
23:03God, yeah.
23:04How did you find out?
23:05How soon did you realise
23:07that this guy was not what he said?
23:08I found a piece of paper
23:10with this other person's,
23:11other woman's number on it
23:13and I phoned her
23:13and we got talking
23:15and he'd never ever been faithful to me.
23:17He was always with her.
23:19Then I found out
23:20he used to say to me
23:21he was going to Wembley
23:22and he was going to the other woman as well.
23:25Five kids by three different women.
23:27That's your accusation about this guy.
23:29He doesn't look after none of them.
23:31Not one.
23:31What's today about
23:32from your point of view
23:33to prove that he is the dad?
23:34Yeah, for me it's peace of mind
23:37because he's told everybody we know
23:39and outside of that
23:41that Daniel is an Ease.
23:43Why?
23:44What has he based that on?
23:45We've had a situation,
23:46I had a situation
23:47when one of the women
23:48had one of the babies
23:50he had to go and help her with something
23:53and he asked me what should I do
23:55so I said well you need to go
23:56and get the milk
23:57like she's asked you to get.
23:59You're very nice.
24:00I'm not, I'm not painting myself
24:02as a wallflower
24:03because I'm not innocent in this.
24:05I'll be 100% straight.
24:06I've done my wrongs.
24:08I've done my wrongs.
24:09We split up.
24:09I slept with someone.
24:10A man, oh I can't say no names
24:12but I'd slept with someone
24:13and it was pretty soon
24:14but we was split up.
24:16There was a situation,
24:17I'm a mother
24:17and it was the worst thing
24:19I've ever said.
24:20Worst thing I've ever said.
24:21Danny backed me into a corner one day
24:23telling me that
24:24when this woman
24:25who had just had the baby
24:26was fit to
24:27be, if I put it politely
24:30he didn't say it this way,
24:31to be intimate again.
24:32His words,
24:33he was going to breed her again
24:34while I was sitting there
24:36sobbing and breaking my heart out.
24:37So what I turned around
24:39and said to him
24:39and I could have cut my own tongue off
24:40was I hope the baby dies
24:42of cock death.
24:43I know, I know,
24:45you haven't got to tell me.
24:46I phoned the woman,
24:47I spoke to the woman,
24:48I apologised to her
24:49but he had me,
24:50I'd put up with so many years
24:52of abuse.
24:53Why'd you put up with the years
24:54of abuse?
24:55Because this is a...
24:56Frightened to losing him,
24:57I was so frightened to losing him.
24:58Can we get back to your
24:59eight month old baby?
25:00Yeah.
25:01He actually has said to you
25:02he thinks his baby's too white
25:03to be his, right?
25:04Yeah, there was a situation,
25:05this was only a few weeks ago,
25:07he came to my house,
25:08he climbs over my wall
25:10when he's drunk.
25:11He what?
25:11He climbs over my wall,
25:12he's, you know, he does.
25:14Right, let's just, so,
25:15yeah, that's him,
25:17his name's Daniel.
25:18I'll prove my white baby
25:19has a black dad.
25:22His name's Daniel,
25:24I've always been straight.
25:25He's named completely
25:26after his dad,
25:27his dad's on the birth certificate.
25:28Hello.
25:29Sorry.
25:29It's called the Jeremy Coucher,
25:31look at me.
25:31I've always,
25:32I've always been straight.
25:34His father's black,
25:35he's white,
25:36but that can happen, right?
25:38Yeah, his dad's not
25:38the darkest black man
25:39in the world,
25:40he's pretty light.
25:41Whatever the colour of his skin,
25:42he jumps over the fence
25:43looking for sex.
25:44Yeah.
25:44And calls up drunk
25:45playing reggae love songs.
25:47Love songs down the road.
25:51Does that work?
25:52Oh no, God, no,
25:53I can't stand him,
25:54he makes my skin crawl.
25:55He put you through hell,
25:57you say?
25:57Yeah.
25:58Slept around,
25:59lied, cheated,
25:59but now won't leave you alone.
26:01Comes to my house,
26:02but then lies about it
26:03when he comes to my house
26:04that he hasn't got a girlfriend
26:05in the house
26:05because me and her talk.
26:07And so he's over with her,
26:09telling her he loves her,
26:10then he's here and he says to me,
26:11you're the only woman
26:12I've ever loved
26:13since I was in England.
26:14He must think
26:15I'm zipped up the back
26:16because I'm not.
26:17Daniel's on the show,
26:18ladies and gentlemen,
26:18that way.
26:19I'll take a lie detector test
26:33for everything I've said.
26:34Danny, welcome to the show.
26:35Nice to meet you, Jeremy.
26:37She's really mouthy,
26:38she's always having a go,
26:39she drove me bonkers.
26:41What's your side to this story?
26:42Um, my side's to this story now,
26:45Jeremy, um,
26:46she tells a lot of life, um...
26:48What's she lying about?
26:50Most of the things
26:51she was saying about me.
26:52At the time you were with her,
26:53you had two other women pregnant?
26:55Two pregnant, yeah.
26:56Why?
26:56Why are you not committed
26:57in a relationship with her?
26:58Um, stupid.
27:01So you're sleeping
27:02with three women at the same time?
27:03Yeah, I was.
27:04What about the fact
27:05you cheated on her?
27:05Or have I missed the point?
27:07Um, yeah, um,
27:08she cheated as well.
27:09No, I never have.
27:09We were split up.
27:10Talk to each other.
27:11We were split up.
27:12We were split up.
27:13Don't touch me.
27:14We don't even want to talk
27:15to each other, Jeremy.
27:16You what?
27:17Do you see what I mean?
27:17We don't really want to talk.
27:18I don't really have nothing
27:19to talk to her about.
27:19Why do you...
27:20Well, if you don't want
27:20to talk to her about, right,
27:21two things, it's concentrate.
27:22You don't think that boy's yours.
27:24Why?
27:25Because, um,
27:26things happened in the past, innit?
27:27So, that's where the doubts come from.
27:31You doubt that he's your son
27:32because you think
27:33she slept with other people,
27:34despite the fact
27:35that you've got two women
27:36pregnant at the same time?
27:37And also the colour of his skin
27:38causes you concern?
27:39I never mentioned nothing.
27:40Well, you're a liar.
27:41You are a bare-faced liar.
27:42You picked that baby up,
27:44laid him on my chest
27:45and said to me,
27:46look at the colour of me,
27:47look at the colour of you,
27:48and look at the colour of him.
27:50Are you sure this baby
27:51ain't owned by you-know-who?
27:53All right?
27:53So, don't tell lies.
27:55Do not tell lies.
27:56You are a dirty,
27:57no-good,
27:58rotten,
27:59stinking tramp.
28:00So, why do you stick around
28:02for that nasty...
28:03Because, do you know why?
28:04Because, see this here,
28:06this ruled this here
28:07for a long time.
28:09If I found out something,
28:10I wouldn't stick around.
28:11And then when I felt pregnant,
28:11with my son,
28:12my son,
28:13not yours,
28:14because regardless,
28:14when they give me these results,
28:16in a minute,
28:16and I'm going to tell you
28:17where you can stick them
28:19when I get them,
28:20with every part of me.
28:21You seem completely oblivious
28:23to the fact
28:24that you slept with three women
28:25having unprotected sex
28:27at the same time.
28:28Yes or no?
28:29Yes, I said...
28:29Sorry, Jeremy,
28:30it's four women,
28:31it's not three,
28:31there's another one involved.
28:32No, not at these times.
28:34There was no other woman
28:35who was pregnant.
28:36How do you morally justify
28:38the fact that you're having
28:39unprotected sex
28:41with three women
28:41at the same time?
28:43How do I justify that?
28:44Yes, you justify that, please.
28:45This is one of my
28:46greatest quotes ever.
28:48I had doubts
28:48during the pregnancy,
28:50not only because she cheated,
28:51I feel trapped.
28:52I never wanted another baby.
28:54Why didn't you put something
28:56on the end of it then?
28:57So what's this about you
29:00trying to...
29:00Excuse me,
29:01I'm going to put this
29:01study on.
29:02What's this about you
29:03climbing over her wall
29:05when you were trying
29:05and banging on her back door?
29:07Yeah, I did, yes, I did.
29:08No, he bouts all the time.
29:10He tells me,
29:11this is the joke,
29:12it's not his baby.
29:13Have you had sex with him?
29:14A couple of times, yeah.
29:15Well, what?
29:16Hold on a minute.
29:17What three weeks ago, Jeremy?
29:18This dirty, stinking,
29:20lying, cheating, lowlife,
29:22and three weeks ago
29:23you had sex with him.
29:24Where do you stand now?
29:25Because what he does is
29:26when he comes in my house,
29:27he comes to the door,
29:28I've got two other
29:28children upskins.
29:29Don't let him in!
29:30I've got two other...
29:30He's making up so much noise
29:32that he's going to...
29:32No, I'm not.
29:33No, I'm not.
29:34You're a quiet person.
29:35Yeah.
29:35And a bit of a love dog.
29:36But I've got two other kids
29:36that he'll wake up.
29:39He'll wake the other kids up.
29:39But you had sex
29:40within three weeks ago
29:41and you're sat here.
29:42Yeah, because he doesn't stop
29:42for about four hours.
29:43Call the police.
29:44Holding on to me.
29:45Call the police.
29:45Won't leave me.
29:46He doesn't stop what
29:47for four hours?
29:47Grabbing hold of me.
29:48Oh, I see.
29:49He holds on to me
29:50on the settee.
29:50Holding me by my face.
29:52I'm telling him
29:52I ain't kissing him.
29:53He physically holds me
29:54to kiss me.
29:55What is seriously
29:56going to happen
29:57if he is,
29:58as you say,
29:59the father of this baby?
30:00I'm going to run
30:00as far as I can.
30:01I can't let...
30:02Darlene, you can't do that.
30:03You don't do nothing for him.
30:04He ain't brought that baby...
30:05He comes in my house
30:06and when he wants to see me,
30:09uses the baby as an excuse.
30:10Go and get my phone
30:11and look at how many photos
30:12I've got of him
30:13holding that baby,
30:14cuddling him,
30:15kissing him,
30:16in the bath with him.
30:17Why don't you...
30:19Why don't you provide
30:20for your child?
30:21You don't provide
30:21for none of these children.
30:23Not one of them.
30:23Ask her the first jacket,
30:24the baby wear who goes.
30:25No, no, no,
30:25but why don't you provide?
30:27Listen, right,
30:28let me just get down
30:29to the trees
30:29before you even
30:30get into my neck, yeah?
30:33I'm not working
30:33at the moment.
30:34I only get these things
30:35sorted out recently
30:36and I'm looking for work.
30:38Jeremy, you've got
30:38enough energy and time,
30:39be quiet instantly.
30:40You've got enough energy
30:41and time,
30:42despite your circumstances,
30:43to throw yourself
30:44around the United Kingdom
30:46impregnating women.
30:47Let me tell you something,
30:48whether you like this or not.
30:49I don't even think
30:50it's funny.
30:50I don't think it matters
30:51where you come from.
30:52There's a moral responsibility.
30:54If you sire a child,
30:55and if I am finished,
30:56I'm a hard-working man.
30:57Well, provide for your kids,
30:59because at the moment,
31:00everybody else...
31:00I'll do what I can do for them.
31:01I'll do what I can do for them.
31:02Don't have them,
31:02unless you can pay for them.
31:04I'm not in the position
31:06to pay for them.
31:08Unless you can pay
31:09for your offspring.
31:10Look,
31:10I only just start claiming
31:11anything from benefit as well.
31:14With my family,
31:14that kid's yours,
31:15don't you?
31:16Jeremy,
31:16I'm not 100% sure.
31:17He knows he is.
31:18He knows.
31:19How do I know?
31:19With every part of me,
31:21every part,
31:21I ain't got no worries.
31:23I do think if he is,
31:24as you said,
31:24you've got to give him
31:25a chance under our guidance
31:27to be a dad.
31:27Let's do those
31:28all-important DNA results.
31:30How sure are you
31:30that he's a dad?
31:31Million percent.
31:32Million percent.
31:32What about you?
31:32I lay my life on it.
31:33Well,
31:34I'm just neutral
31:35with the situation.
31:36Neutral?
31:37This was a free trip for him.
31:38This is what this is all about.
31:40Free trip for me for what?
31:41It's a free trip, isn't it?
31:43I regret that I was
31:43going to turn back
31:44in the very cab
31:44and just go home.
31:45That's because
31:46the other girlfriend
31:46was phoning him.
31:49I live on my own.
31:50I'm a single man now,
31:51living on my own.
31:51Yeah, I know,
31:52but he don't stop him
31:52plodding in between four of them.
31:53Taking time out.
31:54Having a rest, yeah?
31:55Yeah, it's tired.
31:55Yeah, it's tired.
31:57Shattered from all the women
31:58you've been sleeping with,
31:59the DNA test results
32:00show that Danny,
32:03what a surprise.
32:04That is your child.
32:05Can I just say,
32:06Sanitya,
32:07I said I was going to say this
32:08and whether you read it or not,
32:09see that, now see that,
32:11sit on that and spin,
32:12you piece of ****.
32:25You remember what you've done
32:26to me in that police car?
32:29She says she's going to
32:30photocopy that and hand it out.
32:31I'm putting it in every shot window.
32:33Can I be serious?
32:34Excuse me?
32:35Sorry.
32:36It's your son.
32:37Yeah.
32:37Right, you and me,
32:38the sensible man who lives on his own
32:40and wants to get his life in order.
32:42Yeah.
32:42That boy deserves a hell of a lot more
32:44from you than he's had already.
32:46I was,
32:47I was seeing the kid in her,
32:48but I wasn't trying to get so close.
32:50He deserves more now.
32:52I even give her money,
32:53I give her money the other day as well.
32:54How much?
32:5520 quid.
32:56Oh, marvellous.
32:57I'm not 40 quid,
32:58I'll give her 20 quid.
32:59I'm talking about the fact
33:01that that is now your son.
33:03What are you going to do
33:04about being a dad?
33:05Well, I'm going to do
33:06what normally dad does.
33:07Which is what?
33:08Take care of a kid and work and try.
33:10You help me get a job now.
33:11I help me start work right now.
33:13Why don't you help yourself?
33:15I'm trying to help myself as well.
33:16Really?
33:17Well, while you're helping yourself,
33:19don't make any other women pregnant.
33:21That's a fact, isn't it?
33:24It's true.
33:26Look, the point of this is
33:28there are plenty of people out there
33:30and I know this,
33:31struggling to find work
33:32who have a perfectly legitimate case
33:33of wanting to provide for their families.
33:35But you can't just go around
33:37creating life
33:39knowing that society will pay for it.
33:41I want to say one thing to you.
33:45Three weeks ago you slept with him.
33:46You were very honest
33:47at the beginning of this.
33:48You also made some mistakes.
33:50I want you,
33:51for the sake of that boy,
33:52to give this show
33:53and the aftercare
33:54one chance,
33:54one chance
33:55for him to step up to the market.
33:57That little boy
33:58deserves to find out the truth.
34:00Listen,
34:01if he's a waste of space as a dad,
34:04he'll find out we're done.
34:05You are a good enough mum
34:07to know he has to have that chance.
34:08Do you know when we leave you,
34:10I'll tell you what
34:10it will go back to doing.
34:11There's no point in me doing this.
34:13His life,
34:13he's standing outside a bookie's
34:15with a bottle of Guinness
34:15in his hand
34:16or in a pub
34:17because he's an alcoholic.
34:17Well, then you shouldn't have slept
34:18with him three weeks ago.
34:20Give us the chance,
34:2120 minutes,
34:21with the aftercare team
34:23to have this conversation.
34:24Yes or no?
34:24Yeah.
34:25Yes?
34:25Yeah.
34:27Since then,
34:27I've caught up with both Debbie
34:28and Danny
34:29to see what's happened
34:30since the show.
34:30Danny says,
34:31Things have been good.
34:32I'm paying for my child
34:33and seeing him on a regular basis
34:34and even though we're not together,
34:36Debbie is expecting our second child
34:38and I'm very much looking forward
34:39to the future.
34:40Conversely,
34:40Debbie says,
34:41Since the show,
34:41Danny hasn't changed one bit.
34:43He's still a no-good excuse for a father.
34:45He doesn't provide for our child.
34:47I knew he wouldn't change
34:48but the show gave me
34:49the opportunity to show the world
34:50what he's really like
34:51and I'm happily getting on with my life.
34:53These two are like the show.
34:54There are always two sides
34:56to every story
34:56but I hope in the future
34:58it works out for both of them.
35:00Now, after the break,
35:00the man had to confront his father
35:02after a childhood of abuse.
35:03Do not go anywhere.
35:04I'm right back.
35:05Did you burn him with cigarettes?
35:09No, I did not.
35:10He said you used to lock him
35:11in a room upstairs
35:12with only bread and water.
35:14That was a load of rubbish.
35:15Good morning, it was a take of it.
35:30Good morning, Mary!
35:31Welcome back.
36:00Today I'm looking back at my most memorable shows of last year before our new ones on
36:04the brand new set start next week.
36:06My next guest Kevin came to the show to confront his father Frank.
36:09Kevin claimed his father was physically violent and abandoned him as a child.
36:12He came to the show desperate for answers.
36:15Take a look at what happened.
36:16I was reading this this morning and I know today is, um, is it about closure?
36:22The reason why I've come on the show, I just wanted to know why he treat, why did he treat
36:28us like the way he did?
36:30Um, let's, um, talk in some detail about the story.
36:36From when I was a little lad, my mum had passed away.
36:40And the way my dad treated us, he used to burn, he used to put his cigarettes out on my chest.
36:46He used to, every time I played up, he used to stick me in a cold bath with my clothes on.
36:52At the age of six, you were put into care.
36:55I got put into hospital by my own father.
36:58And when I was in hospital, social services came to me and took me off my father and put me in care.
37:03Do you have, and this is a, I was seeing this this morning, do you have vivid memories of what happened to you?
37:10I mean, you said that you think, the reason I ask is, you think that he pushed you down the stairs.
37:16Yeah, because I've got a scar on top of my head.
37:19But do you remember?
37:20I mean, I wouldn't, I don't know whether I would remember anything at five or six, but do you remember?
37:24Do you have those images or was it what you were told?
37:26The only images I have is, when I'm asleep, I have flashbacks of my mum.
37:31You don't have any flashbacks of the actual violence that he carried out on you?
37:36No.
37:37That you say he carried out, yeah?
37:38He went into care aged six.
37:40Did he visit?
37:41I mean, presumably he wasn't allowed to.
37:43The only time I visited it was on my 12th birthday.
37:47Did you, what, do you remember wanting to see him or do you?
37:49I did, I didn't know he was turning up.
37:51He was, my care staff had lots of price for me, for my family to turn up.
37:55See, I guess that, Kev, I mean, you're 25 now, I guess that would be my question today.
37:59Um, here's this guy who you say, and I, you know, there are both sides to a story, I'm sure you understand that.
38:05You say, pushed you downstairs, but you were told that, beat you, put cigarette, you got scars from the cigarette.
38:12Old cigarette burns down there, from where you used to put your cigarettes out on me.
38:16I don't really then understand, if I'm being completely honest, why you would want to be within one million miles of that.
38:21To, like, at tea time, he didn't used to give us a meal.
38:25He just gave us a pain.
38:26Did you? I just said, why would you want to be within a million miles of him, though?
38:28That's what I don't get.
38:29I don't want him.
38:30Well then why are you here?
38:31I don't even want him in my life anymore.
38:32That's what I know.
38:33That's what I know out of his own mouth, why did he treat his own family like the way he did.
38:37Fair enough.
38:38Have you seen him recently? I know there was some argument.
38:43I did nip up and see him, the reason why I nipped up that in, because one of my sisters live up there.
38:49And what was it like?
38:50It didn't feel like the way I wanted it to feel, it didn't hardly speak to me.
38:56But you went to live with him?
38:58I stayed, I didn't, I moved in with him, I stayed there for overnight.
39:02Hasn't he made accusations against you on the internet?
39:05Yeah, he put on Facebook that I was living on the streets taking crack, crack and heroin and cocaine, which I weren't.
39:11I was living on the streets but I weren't taking crack and heroin.
39:15What do you expect to gain from today?
39:17I just want the truth of him.
39:19And if he doesn't come out with the truth then I don't want him in my life anymore.
39:23Just to touch upon your mum if that's okay, has he ever admitted to you what happened?
39:28He admitted nothing.
39:29Every time I mention to him about my mum, he just goes quiet or he starts crying.
39:34What have you been told?
39:36I've been told that my mum's passed away.
39:39It says on her birth certificate that she died of overdose.
39:44I don't think my mum will take her overdose if she had two kids there with her.
39:48I know my dad's done something.
39:50Let's get him out. Frank's on the show ladies and gentlemen.
40:06Frank, the one thing about this show as long as I'm here is that people make comments, people have to answer them.
40:13Did you burn him with cigarettes?
40:17No I did not.
40:19Why would he say that?
40:20It's all what he's been told and it's all in his imagination.
40:24What do you mean it's all that he's been told?
40:26He said you used to lock him in a room upstairs with only bread and water.
40:30That is a load of rubbish.
40:37There are two sides to every story my friends.
40:40Do you know what troubles me about this story if I'm absolutely honest?
40:56The one thing that troubles me more than anything is when you said the word I think.
41:01I would never actually disrespect when I would say to people that's your gut feeling and that's fine.
41:07But you need to listen to what this guy has to say.
41:10What I want to get today is for you, I don't expect, you see, I don't expect you to, I want you to listen to what he has to say.
41:22Because otherwise there's no point in being here.
41:24Do you understand that?
41:26Is that okay?
41:29Because you will not get anything from this pal unless we do this.
41:32And that's what I always say to the audience.
41:34We have to hear his side.
41:37Because that will fill in the gaps.
41:40Does that make sense?
41:41Yeah.
41:42Are you alright to come in?
41:43Sure?
41:44I know it's difficult and I do appreciate the fact you're here.
41:46Let's go and do this.
41:47Come on.
41:48Right, I'll tell you what we're going to do.
41:55You are going to ask your dad what you want to ask him and you're going to answer it.
41:59It's not about me.
42:00Why did you treat us like the way you did?
42:02I didn't treat you ill.
42:03Or badly.
42:04I was never in the house.
42:05You was always with your mother.
42:06All you used to feed us was bread, a plain piece of bread.
42:09Nothing on it.
42:10And just about that much of a glass of water.
42:13You're touching a load of bubbles mate because you were fed three meals a day.
42:17You say that Kevin's mum?
42:20Yeah.
42:21Left?
42:22Just up and walked off.
42:24And left you with two young kids?
42:26Yeah.
42:27And it was a struggle for you?
42:29Yes it was.
42:30Did you beat your son up?
42:31No I didn't.
42:32Did you mistreat them?
42:34Just tell them a second.
42:35No I didn't.
42:36Well then the million dollar question my friend is why he ended up in care.
42:38Why was that?
42:39Because I couldn't cope with Kevin with his behaviour and his tantrums and his temper and everything.
42:43He was six?
42:44He was six.
42:45I was bringing up a little baby.
42:48His sister.
42:49But Kevin told me that after his mother died when he was five that's when the trouble started.
42:56Kevin wasn't living with me when his mother died.
42:58He made an accusation.
42:59He said that on the birth, on the death certificate sorry it said that your mother had died from an overdose.
43:05And he doesn't believe that's right.
43:07He thinks that you were something to do with it.
43:08He said that on this show.
43:09I was living in Telford when his mother died.
43:11Tell him not me.
43:12I was living in Telford when your mother died.
43:13Doesn't matter where you were living.
43:14What happened to her?
43:15So how come every time I spoke to you about my mum you just ignored me or you walked off
43:19and started crying.
43:20Because I don't want to talk about your mother.
43:21Because she's not here anymore to defend yourself.
43:22Well I do.
43:23I do because I miss her.
43:24Well I tried to talk to you before about it and you just got up.
43:27I'm going out.
43:28I'm the one who has flashbacks in my sleep.
43:30I've not long just lost a daughter myself.
43:33Yeah?
43:34And if I tell you anything about my family like my daughter passing away,
43:38you probably just shook his shoulders.
43:39You don't give a shit about our life anymore.
43:41I didn't even know you had any children.
43:43I told you.
43:44Last time when they came up to see I told you I had a daughter called me.
43:47You just sat there.
43:49You didn't do nothing.
43:50I asked you for a photograph.
43:51Let's talk, if we can, let's talk about his mother.
43:56What do you know that might help him and will do all that we usually do
44:01to somehow get some sort of movement forward on this?
44:04What do you know?
44:06Well I know, last I heard about his mother is when Telford police came to the places I was in in Telford
44:11and told me that your mother had passed away.
44:14She'd committed suicide.
44:16And I asked them how and they said,
44:18we don't know but we'll find out the details and bring them back to you.
44:21I haven't even seen the death certificate.
44:22I didn't know she was dead till the year after.
44:25That's what am I supposed to do?
44:28Try and understand the impact that would have on a kid.
44:31Why didn't you go and visit him when he was in care?
44:33Because I didn't know where he was.
44:34What do you mean you didn't know where he was?
44:35I didn't know where he was.
44:36Well that might then suggest to me that nobody wanted you to see him.
44:40I asked people where he was.
44:42You told my researchers you went every two weeks.
44:45How many times did you go?
44:47I went to see him about nine times before I moved.
44:49Did you do enough to find your son?
44:50Yes I tried everywhere.
44:51No you didn't.
44:52What do you mean you tried everywhere?
44:53Where did you try?
44:54I was up all the more every week looking for him.
44:57You told my researchers you put him in care because you couldn't cope.
45:01That's true yeah.
45:03So you saw him nine times and he disappeared on a new life yeah?
45:06That concerned were you?
45:08When was the last time?
45:09When was the first time after he'd been in care that you saw him?
45:12When he came knocking on my front door in town.
45:13When he came knocking on my front door.
45:15Why didn't you go and look for him?
45:17I did look for him.
45:18Really?
45:19Interesting that a 17 year old kid had more success than you did.
45:22No responsibility at all on your behalf?
45:25I don't know.
45:26You don't know?
45:28It's your son.
45:29I did enough to look for him.
45:31Even his sister kept on asking me if I'd found him yet.
45:34You told my researchers that one of the biggest problems is that Kevin just turns up out of
45:38the blue and expects me to just do stuff for him.
45:41I've had people come to my door asking me to put him up for time because he'd know where to live.
45:45I had him there.
45:47Oh brilliant!
45:48How many nights did you have him?
45:49Do you want to take me on?
45:50I'm right up for it.
45:51How many nights did you have him in 25 years?
45:53He was at my house for three nights.
45:55Three nights?!
45:56He told me he was born.
45:57Praise the Lord above!
45:59Any idea what being a father's all about?
46:01Or were you one of those ones who passed the buck by putting him in care?
46:04Well look what you've done to him.
46:06You had a chance today, you know, to come out here and say,
46:09Look, and I've already made the point, I wasn't responsible for your mother disappearing.
46:13And I couldn't cope.
46:15But you can't possibly look him in the face and say you've done enough since he went into care.
46:20Do you want a relationship with Kevin?
46:22I'd love a relationship with Kevin.
46:23Well then do something about it!
46:25You make the effort!
46:27You get over there!
46:28You stand up and be a man and be a dad!
46:31He needs you!
46:32I should not have to do this!
46:34He's had plenty of opportunities.
46:36We will do everything in our power to help you.
46:39Do you want to know something?
46:40I think you're better off.
46:42I'm being serious.
46:43Nothing is there.
46:44Yeah, I want a relationship with him.
46:47How do you think that's going to work then?
46:52I don't know.
46:53Brilliant.
46:55Well I think you ought to know.
47:00And I think that when you get backstage and you get one last chance away from the cameras,
47:05you better work it out pretty damn quick.
47:07Are you interested in talking to him backstage?
47:09Or would you rather walk in the opposite direction?
47:11Opposite direction.
47:12Don't want him in my life anymore.
47:14From what I've just heard.
47:16Fair enough.
47:17Fair enough.
47:18You know what I am if you want me.
47:21Can I tell you something?
47:26I promise you one thing about this show.
47:28You have had a terribly difficult time and we are going to help you massively.
47:31My argument with a bloke like your dad is that he has absolutely every opportunity here
47:36to say, I'm sorry, there are two sides to this story.
47:41Let's start from here.
47:42He didn't.
47:43I hope he wises up in the next half an hour,
47:45otherwise he'll miss out.
47:46Graham's waiting for you.
47:47Give Kevin a round of applause.
47:48So I caught up with Kevin and Frank and this is what they had to tell me.
47:54Frank says,
47:55Jez, since the show I haven't spoken to Kevin.
47:57He left me no contact details so I have no way of getting in touch with him.
48:00I do still want a relationship with my son and the door will always be open
48:04if he ever changes his mind.
48:06Kevin says,
48:07I had no contact with my dad since the show.
48:09I didn't get the answers I wanted from him because he lied.
48:12However, I feel I can now move on with my life and I've now decided I want nothing more to do with him.
48:17I'm looking forward to the year ahead with my family.
48:20That is the most important thing.
48:21Hopefully, both guys can move on with their lives and we wish them the very best of luck for the future.
48:27I am though for this morning out of time.
48:29Thank you very much indeed for watching.
48:30And don't forget the brand new shows start next week on our brand new set.
48:34We'll see you very soon.
48:35Take care. Bye for now.
48:36Bye.
48:37Bye.
49:06Bye.
49:07Bye.