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The Jeremy Kyle Show 20th January 2006

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00:00A man who wants his ex out of his life forever, unless he's the father to her six-month-old son.
00:07I'm just sick of the f*** you come out with.
00:09But if you so care...
00:10Do you know what I mean?
00:11I don't want to see the child because I don't want to get connected to it.
00:14If it ain't my child, who knows with you?
00:16A father here to confront his out-of-control teenage son.
00:19Michael, I don't want you to be like I was.
00:22And you do try to be, don't you?
00:25Everybody says it to you.
00:27But you just end up going into prison and back out and back in and back out.
00:31And some people, when they do go into prison, they just get institutionalised, Michael.
00:35They enjoy going into prison eventually.
00:37And a woman ready to give her commitment-phobic fiancée a shocking ultimatum.
00:41Lloyd, I've brought you here today.
00:43You either set a date for a wedding or I'm walking.
00:46Because I can't take it no more.
00:48And you can keep that until you decide.
00:52All coming up. Don't go away.
00:57Don't go away.
00:58Don't go away.
00:59Don't go away.
01:00Don't go away.
01:04Don't go away.
01:05Don't go away.
01:06Don't go away.
01:07Don't go away.
01:08Don't go away.
01:09Don't go away.
01:10Don't go away.
01:11Don't go away.
01:12Don't go away.
01:13Don't go away.
01:14Don't go away.
01:15Don't go away.
01:16Don't go away.
01:17Don't go away.
01:18Don't go away.
01:19Don't go away.
01:20Don't go away.
01:21Don't go away.
01:22Don't go away.
01:23Don't go away.
01:24Don't go away.
01:25Don't go away.
01:26Don't go away.
01:27Don't go away.
01:28Don't go away.
01:29Don't go away.
01:30Don't go away.
01:31Don't go away.
01:32Hello, I'm Jeremy Kyle. Good morning and welcome to the show.
01:45Now, my first guest, Michael, is desperate to get his ex out of his life for good,
01:49but first he has to find out whether he is the father to her six-month-old son.
01:53Let's hear more. Let's welcome Michael on The Jeremy Kyle Show.
01:57Hello, mate.
01:59You all right?
02:00We'll start by saying you and Claire are at best at loggerheads,
02:08but the most important thing is that there is a six-month-old child
02:12and today we'll do the DNA test to determine true paternity.
02:18Tell us about you and Claire. Take us back to the beginning.
02:22Well, me and Claire started seeing each other.
02:24It was a couple of years back.
02:26It wasn't the best of relationships in the world.
02:32Why?
02:34It was...
02:35Claire's had a lot of problems in the past with drugs and stuff like that as well.
02:41And just to be honest, it wasn't the best relationship in the world.
02:45She had problems with drugs?
02:47Yep.
02:47Um, you knew that?
02:49I knew, yeah.
02:50Well, not when I first went out of her, but after a bit of time I did know that.
02:54Did you find out yourself or did people talk to you about her?
02:56People told me.
02:57What about, um, her temper?
02:59There was, or have been, certain claims about violence in the relationship.
03:02Yeah, there was, yep.
03:03Did she ever attack you?
03:04Yes.
03:05Oh.
03:05Uh, she attacked me with a, uh, metal door bar, uh, trying to hit me around the head
03:11with it in front of my friend's children.
03:13So, here was a lady with problems, with issues.
03:16Yep.
03:17Um, and other children as well?
03:20Uh, I know she's got six, well, this will be her sixth child.
03:24Here is a lady who's obviously been through a lot or is going through a lot.
03:27Um, you don't like her at all, do you?
03:28Uh, to be honest now, I hate her with a passion.
03:33Today's about the DNA test.
03:34Do you believe that this six-month-old child is yours?
03:37Um, to be honest, if the child's mine, I'll do anything for that child.
03:43Do you know?
03:43Why has it taken six months?
03:47It's, it's been very difficult.
03:49Okay, and where did the doubts first surface?
03:52Um, well, basically, uh, when, um, Claire told me
03:58she was, um, pregnant, I got told by quite a few people
04:02that the baby might be a kind of baby.
04:05Um, and, do you know what I mean?
04:08And that's when my first doubt was in the mind.
04:10Now, there's been a lot of harassment.
04:11You've moved your life on your, you're with Kayleigh?
04:13I'm having a brilliant life now, yeah.
04:14Kayleigh is, uh, we're going to talk to Kayleigh later.
04:16She's five months pregnant.
04:17Yes, she is.
04:18You know, you're happy.
04:19But you're saying today, um, A in one, you're a liar, you're a cheat.
04:23I want to know if the baby's mine.
04:25B in two, stop harassing me and my fiancé.
04:27What are we talking about in terms of harassment?
04:29Uh, well, basically, she's texted Kayleigh
04:31on numerous amounts of occasions, um, threatened to beat her up.
04:36Uh, there's just plenty of things that have really gone on,
04:40to be honest.
04:41Is it not true that she travelled over 200 miles to see you,
04:44uh, with the child, and you were out,
04:45and your phone was switched off?
04:46Uh, that's because she was threatening to beat on my girlfriend
04:49when she come down.
04:50Okay.
04:51Um, the one thing, of course, that I always tend to say is,
04:54you know, it's the child, isn't it?
04:55It is.
04:56And I know as a man, you're here today,
04:58you know, whatever's gone on,
04:59yeah, I don't, I don't like her, but I want to tell you the truth.
05:01The only thing I care about is the child.
05:03If it is my child, I'm going to do anything,
05:05and anything I can to do anything for that child.
05:09Okay.
05:09But I just don't want any contact with Claire.
05:11Do you think she wants you back?
05:13Do you think there's an ulterior motive here?
05:14Is it, is she just interested in finding out the truth,
05:17or does she want you back?
05:17Uh, I think now, um, her ex is, um, gone again.
05:23She probably is looking for someone else, yeah.
05:25Do you mean that she looks at you with your perfect relationship now
05:27and another baby on the way,
05:29and she gets more and more angry,
05:31so that's the reason for the texts?
05:33I think, to be honest,
05:35she just likes interfering in people's lives.
05:38You actually said to one of the researchers
05:39that she's an attention seeker.
05:41Big time, yeah.
05:42Okay.
05:43All right.
05:43Well, for now,
05:44bless you for having your, your say.
05:46Michael on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
05:47You know.
05:48Sit back, take it easy.
05:54Okay, now after the break,
05:55we'll meet Michael's ex, Claire,
05:57who's got a few home truths of her own.
05:59You're prepared to go away then, weren't you?
06:01No, I won't be.
06:01Yes, you were.
06:02Yes, you were.
06:03You're a liar.
06:04You were.
06:04You were ringing me up.
06:05Oh, everyone's doing my head in,
06:07but I didn't know she's pregnant.
06:12A nightmare to live on.
06:17Are you having problems with abusive neighbours
06:19or being intimidated by Asbo kids?
06:21Perhaps it's a long-term rift that needs mending.
06:24Or maybe it's your family who are looked down on.
06:26Are you sick of being the talk of the town?
06:28Do you need some help disciplining your kids
06:30before they terrorise the area?
06:32If life on your street is becoming unbearable,
06:34text the word TALK plus your name today to 63334
06:37or call me now, 09011.
06:39It's 30 50 60.
06:42Welcome back.
06:50Now, before the break, we were speaking to Michael.
06:52I know that this is a major day for you,
06:54the DNA test on Claire's six-month-old child.
06:57You've admitted that there isn't much love on either side.
07:03You actually believe Claire to be...
07:07You said she has been violent?
07:09Yes, she has, yeah.
07:10Do you think she's a good mum?
07:11Definitely not.
07:12So, if this child is yours, if you think she's not a good mum,
07:15what will you do?
07:16Me and my partner now will try and go for full-time custody of that child.
07:19OK, so this is a massive day for you.
07:22There are two sides to every story we want to hear.
07:25This is Claire on The Jeremy Kyle Show.
07:27APPLAUSE
07:28Welcome to the show, Claire.
07:35Hiya.
07:36How are you?
07:36Sit back, relax.
07:37The one thing that everybody, I hope, gets a chance to do on this show is to have their say.
07:42Michael's come out and said some pretty strong things about you.
07:44Can we go back to the beginning?
07:46Can you describe the relationship?
07:47How long were you together?
07:48It was on and off.
07:50It wasn't really a relationship.
07:52Not really at all.
07:54What?
07:55There was no commitment?
07:56It was just a sexual thing?
07:57Well, I thought there was commitment, but I was obviously aware of so many lies that were
08:02told about your family, your age.
08:06You've got some, as I say, quite specific things.
08:10He told me he was 28 when he was indeed 23.
08:14Exactly.
08:15What was this about the family?
08:17One of them meant to be dead until they rung my phone.
08:21Is that true?
08:22No.
08:26You know it's true.
08:27Come on, Claire, talk about the drugs.
08:28You know it's true.
08:28Do you know what?
08:30At least I've got the balls to get my life together, and I'm clean now.
08:33You in?
08:34And who's bringing up the kid?
08:35Not you.
08:36He's out the back there.
08:37In the other room behind you, you'd be nice to go and see him.
08:40You know, I heard it when you see him.
08:41Right, sit back, everybody.
08:42We're going to do this in the right way.
08:44Michael has made some accusations about you, including the fact that he doubts that you're
08:48a good mum.
08:49He says that there was violence in the relationship.
08:51He says that you're at best promiscuous.
08:52Let's not talk about the other things.
08:54Let's concentrate on this child.
08:56You've said that Michael lied to you.
08:57You've said that Michael told you lies about his family, about his age, and you implied that
09:02he was violent to you and had a drink and drug problem.
09:04Yes, he did.
09:04And he has.
09:06Out of all of this...
09:07You've got to admit that, have you?
09:09I've not got a drink and drug problem.
09:10No, you haven't, have you?
09:11You've never had one before either.
09:13He admitted that you had a problem in the past, but you're clean of that now, yeah?
09:16Yeah, I'm totally clean.
09:17I'm actually working with a company.
09:18If you've been through that, then why are you picking on someone else that's been through?
09:21I'm actually working with a company in the island now that I'm working with between
09:2516 and 18-year-olds to try and get them off drugs now.
09:28Oh, so if you're doing that, you can't be working with them, because you're having to go at me for having a problem.
09:33So you admit you're still on drugs then?
09:35No, you don't judge people when you've been through it yourself.
09:36You don't put people through that kind of shit.
09:37But you do.
09:38Claire, one of the things that came out when we were talking to both of you separately backstay with researchers, um, Michael said, um, that, I mean, I asked Michael, do you think Claire wants me back, wants you back?
09:52And he said, I don't know.
09:53Did you want him back?
09:54No, I did not want him back.
09:55But you told somebody that actually, as little ago as two weeks, he's on the phone or on the
09:59text, not begging you, but saying, there's a future for us.
10:00Tell us more.
10:01Come down to Ports, pick me and my TV up.
10:02My grand TV.
10:03Of course, you're grand.
10:04I can't leave it behind.
10:05But I didn't know she was pregnant then, did I?
10:06You're prepared to go away then, weren't you?
10:07No, weren't they?
10:08Yes, you were.
10:09Yes, you were.
10:10You're a liar.
10:11You were.
10:12You were ringing me up.
10:13Oh, I didn't know she was pregnant then, did I?
10:15You're prepared to go away then, weren't you?
10:17Oh, weren't they?
10:18Yes, you were.
10:19Yes, you were.
10:20You're a liar.
10:21You were.
10:22You were ringing me up.
10:23Oh, I need to get away from me.
10:24Everyone's doing my head in, but I didn't know she was pregnant.
10:27Michael says, Claire, Michael says that you've been harassing him, a new fiancée Kayleigh,
10:31who is five months pregnant.
10:32We'll talk to her in a bit.
10:33He says that you are an attention seeker who won't let go.
10:36Is that true?
10:37Or is he actually telling us a lie and is after you?
10:39What's the truth?
10:40Well, he's the one that's been ringing me, texting me.
10:42How did I ring where you live then?
10:43How did I get the number?
10:44You rang me on that phone, left it on my phone, used the number, didn't withhold it,
10:48so I rang it back.
10:49Let me ask you both a question.
10:50Have you ever sent him?
10:52Have you ever sent him suggestive or abusive texts?
10:55Yeah, I have.
10:56Stop.
10:57Have you ever sent her the same?
10:58Probably abusive messages, yeah.
11:00Okay.
11:01Actually, if you look at the screen, there's a text message, firstly, from Claire to Michael,
11:06and then from Michael to Claire.
11:07You're both guilty of it, I think.
11:09Tell Michael next time he rings me, telling me to move back so he can get back with me.
11:13I have kept all the messages.
11:15No, I have.
11:16Okay.
11:17The other one says, you have to stop texting when she is about, because it's causing massive arguments.
11:21I will text you when she's out.
11:23Did you send that?
11:24Ask my partner.
11:25Ask my partner, because I told her that.
11:26Ask my partner Kayleigh now, because I told her that.
11:28About 20 times.
11:29Excuse me.
11:30Take a breather.
11:31I'm going to the audience.
11:32Now, Kayleigh, let's bear in mind that Kayleigh is only 18 and is five months pregnant.
11:35Do you want to jump up, Kayleigh?
11:36You all right?
11:37Stand up, sweet.
11:38Welcome to the show.
11:39Did you know about that text?
11:40Well, apparently, she texted it, but she forwarded it to me.
11:43But if you'd forward a text message on, it says forward and top, doesn't it?
11:46Oh, I've got the phone out there.
11:47You can look, love.
11:48I'll show you the others.
11:49Well, hold on a second.
11:50Let her have her say, because you've had yours.
11:51Take a breather.
11:52What's your view on all this?
11:53Because you met Michael.
11:54I've had enough of it.
11:55I've got a little baby involved, and I'm sick of her texting me, calling me little girl,
11:59this, that, and the other.
12:00What's it got to do with me with you?
12:01You've got a baby involved.
12:02You're the one telling me on the phone, yeah?
12:03Oh, if he wants to see him, he can go to the social service.
12:06Yeah.
12:07Because one minute you're telling us, one minute you're telling us, he's been beaten up,
12:11and you're in hospital.
12:12Your little girl.
12:13My daughter's four years younger than you.
12:14Let's get onto that, Claire.
12:15Do you trust Michael?
12:16Yeah.
12:17You do?
12:18Yeah.
12:19Do you believe that he wants to get back with Claire?
12:20No.
12:21Do you believe that she is harassing him because she cares about what's best and right for
12:25her child, or because she has an ulterior motive?
12:28I don't think there's anything to do with her child.
12:30She's just...
12:31She's nuts.
12:32I'm sorry.
12:33I don't know me, love.
12:34You're nuts.
12:35You know, he's cheated on ya.
12:36You even said, yeah, he has.
12:38When did I say that to you?
12:39Why did you cheat?
12:40Oh, you told me about it.
12:41When?
12:42Tell me when.
12:43You do know about it, Mick.
12:44You told me.
12:45Tell me when I've done that.
12:46And you agreed on the phone the update.
12:47Yeah, I know.
12:48And why did you do it?
12:49Oh, because I felt like it.
12:50Excuse me.
12:51Excuse me.
12:52What's all this got to do with the baby?
12:53That's what I want to know.
12:54Hey, she's 18 and she speaks more sense than anybody.
13:00Do you believe that Michael is the father?
13:02I don't know.
13:03I really don't know.
13:04If he is?
13:05If he is.
13:06Then we'll have contact with the baby.
13:07You'll have contact with the baby.
13:08Fair enough.
13:09Then I won't.
13:10But Mick will.
13:11It's because we don't believe a word you say.
13:12In one week, you've been beaten up.
13:14Then you're in hospital.
13:15Then you're out of hospital.
13:16So you're saying she's composed of the life.
13:18I was there.
13:19When did you on the phone?
13:20Did she listen to all the phone calls?
13:21All right, thank you very much for now.
13:22Kayleigh, ladies and gentlemen.
13:23You have every right to answer that.
13:29She is saying that you systematically make up stories.
13:32That you will not face up to the truth.
13:34She says that the baby is her concern.
13:36What's your answer to that?
13:37You have to answer that.
13:38At the end of the day, if the baby is her concern,
13:39why was she telling me on the phone,
13:41oh, I don't want you there,
13:43and being blimmin' petty and stupid,
13:45and when I went to the Isle of Wight
13:47to travel with the baby the other day,
13:48they took the phone off.
13:49Yeah, that's something I need to ask you about.
13:51Claire says that she's making direct frets to Kayleigh,
13:54and no one makes direct frets to Kayleigh.
13:57No one.
13:58I told her, I threatened her.
14:00Yeah, I said to you,
14:01I'd knock a head around the other wife for interference.
14:03But did I know she threatened?
14:04You threatened Kayleigh.
14:05No, I did not.
14:06It doesn't matter whether she's pregnant or not,
14:07you shouldn't threaten anybody, should you, madam?
14:09Yeah, but you're threatening me.
14:10Why are you threatening me?
14:11Getting her involved,
14:12you're ringing me up every five minutes.
14:14You started threatening Kayleigh,
14:15that's when the phone went off.
14:16You did not threaten Kayleigh.
14:17Do you know what I end up saying every single morning?
14:19I feel sorry for a six-month-old child
14:21that is in the middle of all of this.
14:22It's quite extraordinary.
14:23Seriously.
14:24Right, now.
14:26Do you, short answers,
14:31do you believe Michael is the father to your child?
14:33Yeah, he is.
14:34He knows he's a baby's plan.
14:35No, it wasn't, no.
14:36He says that if the baby is his,
14:38he wants to be involved,
14:39and that he and Kayleigh,
14:40who are building a life fair play to them,
14:41will be involved in the child's life.
14:43What do you say to that?
14:44Fair enough.
14:45I want him to be involved.
14:46Why do you think I've made all the efforts,
14:47being lonely the other day?
14:48Good, we agree.
14:49So that's the point of the DNA test.
14:50Yeah.
14:51Right, take a breather.
14:52Next up is George.
14:53Who's George?
14:54He's my best friend.
14:55George, known you for about three years,
14:56but also known you for seven years.
14:57Claire has known you for longer.
14:58So he knows,
14:59he has a view on both of you.
15:00George is on the show,
15:01ladies and gentlemen.
15:02I need a drink.
15:03I'm going off.
15:04I need a drink.
15:05I'm going off.
15:06Mike, Will.
15:07I'm coming off.
15:08You.
15:09You.
15:10You want to sort it out.
15:11Nata.
15:12I'm going off and getting a drink.
15:13I'm going off and getting a drink.
15:14I need a drink.
15:15Welcome to the show, George.
15:16Cheers, Jeremy.
15:17One thing that we try and do
15:18is give everybody a chance to have their say.
15:19Of course.
15:20You're the slightly, um,
15:23interesting position of having known both of them.
15:25Yeah.
15:26You said to one of my researchers,
15:27she's always been crazy and a little insecure.
15:29That's a bit harsh, isn't it?
15:30No.
15:31Just for you.
15:32You're cheeky.
15:33Because you're an addict as well.
15:34And you've had problems.
15:35So why are you coming on here saying that?
15:36Addict to what?
15:37You've got no right to say that.
15:38You've had problems with drugs.
15:39You've had years of problems.
15:40So you're coming on here judging me.
15:42No, he's not judging you.
15:43Why should I judge you?
15:44So you're perfect.
15:45You're doing it.
15:46Oh, you're a nutter.
15:47Yeah, you're a nutter.
15:48Yeah.
15:49You're a nutter.
15:50He's a nutter.
15:51You're going to come in here for a little bit of fun.
15:54Raj, you're a nutcase.
15:56No, at the end of the day,
15:57you're no better.
15:58So who are you?
15:59And who told me I'm better off without him?
16:01You told me I'm better off without him.
16:02He's better off without you.
16:03You told me that in the town.
16:04You're probably better off without him because you're nuts.
16:06You're nuts too.
16:07Ding.
16:08At the end of the day, I'm not nuts.
16:09You are.
16:10Just because I stand my ground,
16:11I've been sticking up for my son.
16:12George, what do you want to say?
16:14Well, I think she should do the DNA test.
16:16Let him know whether he's a father or not.
16:18Because you must mess his head up saying you're not his dad.
16:21How could I mess his head up?
16:22He's the one that went off cheating and going off of other women.
16:24Cheating?
16:25He didn't care about me at the time when I was pregnant.
16:26So I got rid of him.
16:27No, no, no, no.
16:28And all the lies.
16:29I've heard people talking, yeah?
16:31He's not running off cheating.
16:32What from you?
16:33He was cheating.
16:34He ran off and I got rid of him.
16:35Behave.
16:36You moved away.
16:37You moved away.
16:38He didn't know whether the kid was cheating.
16:39I wanted to get away from him.
16:40George, George, you actually believe.
16:42Claire, please.
16:43You actually believe that Claire cheated on Michael, don't you?
16:45Yeah, probably.
16:46It's this little set-up thing between you.
16:48Pick or me time.
16:49That's all the sort of thing you'd do.
16:51I'm so hard done by.
16:52No, that's not your life.
16:53That's not your life.
16:54That's not your life.
16:55That's not your life.
16:56That's not your life.
16:57That's not your life.
16:58You've got nothing else to get after other people's problems.
17:01Listen, what are you talking?
17:02You've heard enough.
17:03I like that as well.
17:04Do you believe, George, George, let's get to the facts.
17:06Do you believe that Michael is the father to the six-month-old child?
17:1050-50, Jeremy.
17:12You warned him about Claire, didn't you?
17:14Yeah.
17:15What did you say to him?
17:16I said, well, it may go with her, but don't get involved.
17:19Don't you feel sorry for the child?
17:21I do, yeah.
17:22For that, for a mother, yeah.
17:27I have to say, I'm not taking sides, but I have to say,
17:29I have to say that.
17:30Yeah, Bob's one thing, but she's been bringing the child up for six months on her own.
17:34If you so cared, you would have gone up with her and seen that.
17:36You are such an idiot.
17:37It's unbelievable.
17:38I don't want to see the child, because I don't want to get connected to it.
17:42If it ain't my child, who knows with you?
17:44And do you know something?
17:45Can I say something now?
17:46I've heard many stories in my time, but that is actually spot on,
17:49because how unfair of a child to have a man involved in his life
17:52until he knows the truth, isn't that right?
17:56Right, just a couple of hands up.
17:57Stay there, take it for Eva.
17:59Do you want to speak on the show?
18:01You have to stand up.
18:02Claire, please let people speak.
18:04Up you get, madam.
18:05What's your name?
18:06My name's Amy.
18:07What do you want to say, Amy?
18:08I just want to say, Claire, Michael, you two are as bad as each other.
18:10Kayleigh is much younger than both of you.
18:12She's more mature, more grown up.
18:14She's talking more eloquently than the pair of you.
18:16I think she's better off out of it.
18:18You two need to sort yourselves out.
18:20Okay, thank you very much indeed.
18:23Okay, the one thing that we try and do on the show is balance it.
18:26Liz, if you'd like to stand up.
18:28You alright?
18:29Okay, Liz, Claire's friend.
18:31How long have you been Claire's friend for?
18:33Since last year.
18:34Good mum?
18:35Hold on a second, let us speak.
18:36Yes, I do.
18:37Good mum?
18:38They're always dressed, they're always fed.
18:41Has she had it hard?
18:42Has it been difficult for her?
18:43Yes, she has.
18:44Yes, she has moved into another estate.
18:46Yes, she has had it hard.
18:47Can I ask you a question and take this next comment as a nice comment?
18:51You're a mature lady.
18:52You're like me.
18:53Yes.
18:54We're both in our 40s, right?
18:55Yes.
18:56Don't you just think that too many people are just having too many unprotected sexual liaisons
19:00and created children?
19:02Thousands and hundreds of thousands in this country who end up being stuck in the middle of horrible
19:06little arguments like this who don't know the truth about their parentage.
19:09Yes.
19:10People don't have to be married to have kids but there should be some sort of commitment, shouldn't there?
19:13Of course they should.
19:14So what do you do for Claire?
19:16You help her?
19:17You're there for her?
19:18Yes, I do, yes.
19:19I have a daughter from time to time.
19:20Because Claire can't look up for the kid in her own, that's why you're there.
19:22I do everything on my own, actually.
19:23It's got nothing to do with that.
19:25I'm a single parent.
19:26You don't know.
19:27You don't know.
19:28I'm just going to spend that money on a prank while I'm going to spend an entire...
19:30I did buy a prank.
19:31Excuse me.
19:32Michael.
19:33Michael.
19:34Hold on a minute.
19:35I'm a single parent.
19:36I've done it on my own.
19:37So don't mock a single parent.
19:39We try and that's why we are friends, to help one another.
19:42Absolutely fair point.
19:43Thank you very much indeed, Liz.
19:44Fair play.
19:45No, that's good.
19:46Right.
19:47Um...
19:48Okay, very quickly, I want to speak to Sarah.
19:50Sarah's your girlfriend.
19:51Sarah, up your jump.
19:52You're next to Kayleigh.
19:53You're next to Kayleigh.
19:54You all right?
19:55Yeah.
19:56What do you want to say?
19:57Because I want to specifically ask you about the violence.
19:58Yeah, well, there has been violence, Claire, and I've seen it.
20:00My little girl was there.
20:01I had to stop you.
20:02That's fine.
20:03But what was he doing?
20:04Hold on a second.
20:05And what was he doing?
20:06Yeah.
20:07Let her speak.
20:08Claire, please.
20:09Go on, tell us specifically.
20:10I don't think so.
20:11I can't.
20:12I don't remember going to too much details, but I had to stop her from going to hit Michael,
20:15because...
20:16With a carpet gripper.
20:17Yeah.
20:18It was indeed.
20:19And...
20:20There's two sides to destroying what you do.
20:22Oh, there's two sides to the story.
20:23Yeah, there is.
20:24Have you ever seen Michael be violent to Claire?
20:26I haven't, no.
20:27Do you think that he is the father?
20:29Erm...
20:30I wouldn't.
20:31I'm like George with that one.
20:32I can't honestly say.
20:33I really can't.
20:34Do you think they're as bad as each other?
20:35Yes.
20:36Yes.
20:37Thank you very much indeed.
20:38There is a situation that we need to resolve.
20:43And Claire probably doing it all on her own and feeling she's getting, you know, a bad response.
20:48Liz had a say in support.
20:49It is difficult for her.
20:50I hope...
20:51Do you want the child to be yours?
20:53Be honest.
20:54If the child's mine, I'll do anything in my power to do that.
20:57Good.
20:58And I actually believe that you will.
20:59I will do that.
21:00Will you make it difficult for him?
21:01Not at all.
21:02Because there is a world of...
21:03No, I'm the one that travelled and tried to bring him to you.
21:06And you're the one making it difficult for me.
21:08I've done all I can.
21:09Claire.
21:10I can't do no more.
21:11There's a world of difference between saying it, and I believe that you will.
21:14But if he is the father, and he wants to be involved...
21:16He knows he's the father.
21:17...with Kayleigh.
21:18You know, I've heard too many stories of people putting barriers in the way.
21:20If you love this child...
21:21Yeah, I do love that child.
21:22Then you do what's right by that child.
21:23I'm the only right person that child's got.
21:25He's got no one else.
21:26I have to say something that I say to everybody, okay?
21:29The threats, the violence, that has to stop.
21:31We're doing it.
21:32We're doing what's right for the child, yeah?
21:33So you go through that door.
21:34You two go through that door, and we'll sort it out.
21:36Ladies and gentlemen, give him a clap.
21:37Take care.
21:38Thanks, sweetheart.
21:44Those DNA results soon, but next we'll meet 16-year-old Michael.
21:48He drinks, he fights, but will he see the error of his ways?
21:52You deliberately start fights.
21:55You'll yell abuse at people.
21:57You'll lob things at people.
21:59You throw bricks at cars.
22:00I like the buzz I get.
22:02It's just when I have a drink, I go mad.
22:04So why drink, then, if drinking makes you go mad and gets into trouble?
22:08There's something to do.
22:10It's boring.
22:11Life's boring?
22:12For a teenager, yeah.
22:14It's boring.
22:15It's boring.
22:16It's boring.
22:17It's boring.
22:18It's boring.
22:19Thank you very much indeed.
22:20Welcome back.
22:21Now, my next guest, Michael, is a self-confessed drinker and fighter.
22:24And at just 16 years of age, he has absolutely no desire to go to school or even get a job.
22:29I do need to hear more.
22:30Please welcome Michael on The Jeremy Carle Show.
22:38All right, mate?
22:39Hi.
22:40Nice to see you.
22:41You all right?
22:42Yep.
22:43I mean, we've spoken to quite a few teens over the months.
22:46I know there's a background to this story, but you haven't been behaving too well.
22:52Be fair.
22:53No.
22:54What have you been up to?
22:55Drinking.
22:56Fighting.
22:57Apparently, you drink every night.
23:00Nearly every night.
23:01And 12 cans of lager a day.
23:04Hmm.
23:05Where do you get the money from?
23:07Dad, Mum.
23:08Your mum or dad give you the money?
23:09Do they know it's for alcohol?
23:10No.
23:11OK.
23:12But they still give it to you.
23:13Or even a bottle of brandy?
23:14On the weekends sometimes.
23:16About 40 quid a week on booze.
23:18The thing I want to talk about as well is the fights.
23:21You deliberately start fights.
23:25You'll yell abuse at people.
23:27You'll lob things at people.
23:29You throw bricks at cars.
23:30I like the buzz I get.
23:32What do you mean by that?
23:35No, it's just when I have a drink.
23:37I go mad.
23:38So why drink, then, if drinking makes you go mad and gets you into trouble?
23:42Something?
23:43Something to do.
23:44It's boring.
23:45Life's boring?
23:46For a teenager, yeah.
23:47Does it make you feel a big man?
23:49No.
23:50Are you being serious?
23:51I don't know.
23:52I don't know why I do it.
23:53What happened to your hand?
23:55I got sliced.
23:56Got what?
23:57Sliced.
23:58Sliced?
23:59But you were too drunk to even know what had happened?
24:00Mm.
24:01You smoke cannabis?
24:02No, I used to have stopped two weeks ago.
24:04How did you do?
24:05Well done.
24:06Why?
24:07Don't like it.
24:08Don't like weed.
24:09Do you want to give up the booze?
24:10Mm.
24:11I'm going to try as well.
24:13That's what I've come here to say today to my dad.
24:15If he stops worrying so much...
24:17If he stops...
24:18Worrying so much, he's on the phone to me every five minutes.
24:20That's what parents do.
24:21Yeah?
24:22Do you understand that?
24:23Mm-hmm.
24:24Let me tell you something.
24:25My mum is 74, right?
24:27She lives 200 miles from me.
24:28If I go to her house, right, after work, if I drive, right,
24:32she doesn't go to sleep till I get there safely.
24:34I'm 40.
24:35Do you understand what I'm saying?
24:36And when you have kids, you'll be the same,
24:37because you look out for them.
24:38You've done what?
24:39You've turned the weed round.
24:40You want to do something about the booze?
24:42We will help you.
24:43But it's not just that.
24:44We're talking about the fights.
24:45You're hot-wiring cars.
24:46No, not anymore.
24:47That was years ago, that.
24:48I don't drive anymore.
24:52Just, I have to let that go, for obvious reasons.
24:54Um, you know these fights?
24:57Mm.
24:58What's behind it?
24:59I mean, I know what's behind it, young man.
25:00I don't know.
25:01I do.
25:02People annoy me.
25:03Were you bullied at school?
25:04Yeah, I know it's in about year seven.
25:06Yeah?
25:07And what did that make you do?
25:08Did it make you go into a shell, like,
25:09or does it make you come out with front bluff,
25:12try and be the big man?
25:14No, I was bullied for months on end,
25:16and one day I just flipped,
25:18and ever since then I've just looked after meself.
25:20You were reunited with your dad just two years ago.
25:23Mm.
25:24What was that like?
25:26A shock.
25:27Yeah?
25:28Isn't it at about that time that a lot of the trouble started?
25:31Yeah.
25:32When you say a shock, what do you mean a shock?
25:35A nice shock?
25:36Yeah.
25:37Yeah.
25:38But he, by all admission, and he's a nice guy,
25:41he's somebody who's very honest,
25:43has had his problems.
25:44Mm.
25:45Did you know about those?
25:46Have you found out about those?
25:47Mm.
25:48He told me.
25:49So, would I be wider than Mark if I suggested that part of this big man front
25:55is to try and impress your dad?
25:57No, because he doesn't like it when I'm like us.
26:00It's not too interesting.
26:01Or impress people who know of your dad's image, for want of a better word.
26:07Mm.
26:08Are you protecting the name?
26:09No, not really.
26:10A little bit?
26:11A little bit, yeah.
26:12A little bit of everything.
26:13I'll tell you one thing, you are.
26:15He's honest, isn't he?
26:16Yeah?
26:17So, what are you here today to say to your dad?
26:20Just tell him.
26:21If he stops ringing me every five minutes when I'm out with my mates,
26:24I'll try my best to stop drinking.
26:26You and your dad spend any time together?
26:28Yeah, we do spend quite a lot of time together,
26:30but that's only because I don't go to school.
26:33That's only through the daytime when my mates are in school.
26:36Is it difficult as well, fitting into the new family, was it?
26:39At first it was, yeah, but when a few weeks went, I was fine.
26:43You understand where he's coming from.
26:45He's made mistakes, which you'll tell us more about when he comes out,
26:48and he doesn't want you going down the same path.
26:50You know, you two, you know, two years ago.
26:53But it isn't big to end up in prison.
26:55You know that, don't you?
26:56Mm.
26:57Yeah?
26:58I think, honestly, I love your honesty.
27:00For now, Michael on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
27:02Fair place to you, bud.
27:03Stay there.
27:04Good man.
27:05Good man.
27:06What's your dad's name?
27:09Charlie.
27:10Let's bring Charlie on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
27:12Charlie.
27:20How are you, mate?
27:21I'm fine, thank you.
27:22Welcome to the show.
27:24I'm going to surprise you.
27:25You read stuff, and then you...
27:26He's very...
27:27He's far more intelligent than he gives himself credit for,
27:30and can achieve, as I'm sure you know, a lot more than perhaps
27:33his recent behaviour has been pointing to.
27:35Um...
27:36Oh, he's not stupid.
27:37Can we ask you?
27:38You had somewhat of a chequered past?
27:41Yeah.
27:42And are you prepared to talk about that?
27:44Yeah, sure.
27:45No problem.
27:46Tell me about it.
27:47Well, I was sent off to, um, residential school when I was younger.
27:52Um, got myself in a lot of trouble there.
27:54Ended up in detention centre, into Borstal, into prison, into prison,
27:59into prison.
28:00I've been in and out of prison most of my life.
28:02Turned your life around now?
28:03Yeah.
28:04When I met my new wife, I've not been in trouble since.
28:07One time I've been in trouble since that.
28:10Alcohol problem?
28:11I was an alcoholic.
28:13But you beat that?
28:14For a lot of years.
28:15You beat that?
28:16I still have a drink, but I'm not like I used to be at all.
28:18Do you see any of the alcohol?
28:20Sometimes.
28:21Sometimes.
28:22I'm not blaming, because I think this is fantastic,
28:24and I really believe we can do something for this.
28:25He's not an alcoholic any more, but he does drink still.
28:28Not as much as he used to.
28:29OK.
28:30Um, you've been there, done it.
28:32You know it ain't big, and you know it ain't clever.
28:34Talk to him and listen to your dad today.
28:36Just talk to him.
28:37I'm sorry, speaking to him, Jenny, but...
28:39He seems...he wants to listen to me,
28:42but he just goes out with his mates,
28:44and he comes back in, and he's smelling a drink,
28:46and...but I just want him to turn himself around,
28:49because he's just come back to live with me.
28:51I think he thinks you're some sort of godlike creature.
28:54I think he has you on this...just hear me out,
28:56I think he has you on this pedestal,
28:58even if he won't admit it,
28:59and I think, after all those years, two years ago,
29:02we know you have a chequered past.
29:04I know you've turned your back on it.
29:05He's seen a bit of...he's heard a bit of it on the street,
29:07all that sort of stuff.
29:08I think he's playing up to an image.
29:10We talked about that. Talk to your dad.
29:12Everybody says that he's just like I used to be.
29:15He's trying to be like his dad,
29:16and I don't want him to be like that.
29:18Look at your dad. Please.
29:19Michael, I don't want him to be like I was.
29:22And you do try to be, don't you?
29:25Everybody says it to you.
29:27But you just end up going into prison,
29:29and back out, and back in, and back out.
29:31And some people, when they do go into prison,
29:33they just get institutionalised, Michael.
29:36They enjoy going into prison eventually.
29:38Look at your dad. Please.
29:42Do you think he could come down on you harder?
29:45And if he did, don't move your face, Charlie,
29:48if he did come down on you harder,
29:50you wouldn't do it, would you?
29:51Why don't you come down on him harder, Charlie?
29:53I'm going to.
29:54What do you want your dad to think of you?
29:56Come on.
29:58I don't know.
29:59You were talking brilliantly before. Tell me.
30:01I just want to...
30:02Do you want him to be proud of you?
30:04Yeah.
30:05I want to be proud of you.
30:08I think he can and will and should be proud of you
30:12if you're not drunk, on drugs, or messing with cars.
30:16I think he would be proud of you if you got a job,
30:18went to college, got a girlfriend.
30:20There are so many things, as a parent, you can be proud of.
30:23He's got a girlfriend who gets a lot of support of, actually.
30:25Do you know what I mean?
30:26She's a lovely girl.
30:27Just because he...
30:28Alright, I'm going to be really blunt.
30:29I hope you don't mind, Charlie.
30:30It's just because he messed his life up.
30:31That's what he's saying to you.
30:32Don't mess yours.
30:33It ain't big, it ain't clever.
30:34You can do more.
30:35But it must have been difficult for him two years ago,
30:37coming into the new family and all that.
30:39That's the reason I started drinking, because I was...
30:41I wanted attention.
30:42Tell him.
30:43I wanted attention, because I was jealous.
30:45I don't know you about some.
30:46What do you like doing?
30:47I like going to the pool for a game of pool
30:50and winning matches on or anything, just to get out.
30:52You're 16.
30:53I mean, apart from the pub, there must be something.
30:56Do you like football?
30:57Do you like...? I don't know.
30:58What do you like?
30:59Not much.
31:00What's an idea...?
31:01I don't even know him, Jeremy.
31:02That's what I'm saying.
31:03I don't know him.
31:04That's what you two need.
31:05I want to get to know him.
31:06You need to be...
31:07Forget the booze and the drugs and his big-man reputation
31:10and you pick in fights.
31:11You need to spend quality time as father and son.
31:13You're going to laugh.
31:14They'll all laugh.
31:15Go fishing.
31:16I don't know.
31:17Do something.
31:18I used to...
31:19This!
31:20Do something as father and son,
31:21because you are desperate for him to be proud of you
31:23and approve, and he is desperate for you to not go
31:25further off the rails and end up like he did in prison.
31:27He loves you and you love him, and this is just that.
31:30Look at each other.
31:35No.
31:36Look at him.
31:37Look at your dad.
31:39You know I love you, don't you?
31:41I love having you around.
31:43When you're behaving yourself, Michael.
31:45I can't cope when you're not.
31:46He's not a bad kid, Jeremy.
31:48You know what I think?
31:49He's just...
31:50I don't think you tell him if we'll set any boundaries
31:52because you think that will be hypocritical,
31:54and I think because you don't...
31:55Yeah, but Jeremy's 16.
31:56How can you set boundaries?
31:57Quite easily.
31:58Sorry.
31:59I think you don't do it because you think it's hypocritical,
32:01and I think he thinks,
32:02well, there's a few boundaries, I can jump over them,
32:04plus I want to be the big man that my dad was.
32:06I don't feel I've got any right to tell him,
32:08because I've not been in his life for all of them years.
32:10Can I tell you something?
32:11You've got 14 years of catching up to do,
32:13and I think he's desperate for it.
32:14I know, I know.
32:15I think he's desperate for leadership, guidance and love.
32:17I genuinely do, don't you?
32:19I do.
32:20I think he's desperate for it.
32:22Are you?
32:23No!
32:24No!
32:25I don't know.
32:26Fishing's obviously boring, but do stuff together.
32:29Quality stuff.
32:30Put him first, you put him...
32:32I just...
32:33You don't even know each other.
32:34You said it.
32:35No, exactly.
32:36All right, who's David?
32:38Your step-brother.
32:39Did you get on well with David?
32:40All right, let's bring David on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
32:50Welcome to the show, David, how are you?
32:53I'm all right, thank you.
32:57Suddenly, Michael was in your life a couple of years ago, I guess.
33:00Yep.
33:01What's he been like?
33:06It's not funny, Michael.
33:07Don't swear.
33:08It's not funny.
33:11I just wanted to stop drinking and smoking, stealing, getting in trouble with police.
33:15What do you do with your dad?
33:16Do you spend time with your dad?
33:17Yep.
33:18Where'd you go?
33:19What'd you do?
33:20We go...
33:21Go out, go for a game pool, go to the pool.
33:24We do a lot of walking, don't we?
33:25Yeah.
33:26Go down downtown centre.
33:27This is...
33:28You can sort this, Charlie.
33:29And you.
33:30And you want to, don't you?
33:31I need to sort it.
33:32I've jumped on you about that.
33:33He's 16, I can't set boundaries.
33:35He's almost pleading and asking for those boundaries, okay?
33:38I think it's quality time.
33:39I think it's boundaries.
33:41And it ain't a bad thing to do.
33:43You know what happened to him when he carried on living his life like you.
33:46He's admitted that.
33:47He's come on here on national television and said,
33:49I went to prison, I got into trouble, but I've turned my life around.
33:52And he deserves enormous respect.
33:53What Charlie is saying is, don't wait till you're 40 to turn your life around.
33:57Turn it round at 16.
33:58I'll take you under my wing.
33:59I'll look after you.
34:00And we can build a future for all of us.
34:02He's done all right.
34:03And you can do all right.
34:04Don't you think so, ladies and gentlemen?
34:06You can.
34:07You really can.
34:09I mean that.
34:10Okay.
34:11How do you get, madam?
34:12What's your name?
34:13Rachel.
34:14What do you want to say, Rachel?
34:15If you said that you're bored, why don't you just get a job?
34:17We all have to work for a living.
34:18You should just get a job and then you won't be bored and you won't be drinking.
34:21Just get a life.
34:22It's all out there for you, isn't it?
34:24Yeah.
34:25It really is.
34:26See, I thought he was going to come out and just go, whatever.
34:29But he does.
34:30He definitely wants to sort this.
34:32Who thinks he can sort this out?
34:34Put your hand in the air if he can sort this out.
34:36You can do this.
34:37Hey!
34:38Good on you, Daddy.
34:39Right, we're along here.
34:40I'm...
34:41I'm...
34:42How do you get, sir?
34:43I'm sorry.
34:44I'm sorry.
34:45I'm sorry.
34:46I'm sorry.
34:47I'm sorry.
34:48It's affection as well.
34:49You know?
34:50No, we get plenty of that.
34:51Isn't it?
34:52Good.
34:53What's your name?
34:54Dan.
34:55What do you want to say, Dan?
34:56Hi, guys.
34:57To be honest, when you came out, I didn't expect to like either of you's, but fair play to
34:58you.
34:59You're both intelligent guys.
35:00I think it's going to take a bit of compromise on both sides.
35:02I think you, it's right, you do need to take a harder line with him.
35:05You, mate, you've got the brains.
35:07The thing is, if you keep going out like you're doing, two things are going to happen.
35:10You're going to either go to prison, you'll start a fight with someone who's bigger than
35:13you and you'll not get up from it.
35:15You've lost 14 years already.
35:16Don't lose any more of it.
35:17Fantastic.
35:18Thank you very much indeed.
35:21You know what?
35:22I was just thinking, and this deserves mention, it was you who turned up at his house, wasn't
35:28it?
35:29It was for Dave's birthday.
35:30Yeah, but here was a kid at 14, who summoned up the guts, the intelligence and the resolve,
35:38to go to his real dad's house after all those years and knock on the door.
35:41If you could get that passion, those guts, that determination, and you could channel that
35:46into like, she says a job or a college course with your dad's support.
35:50The world's your oyster.
35:52Michael, the world is crammed with people who don't achieve anything.
35:54You are intelligent enough to do it.
35:56Yes or no?
35:57Yes.
35:58Promise?
35:59Yes.
36:00Ladies and gentlemen, give him a round of applause.
36:02At the end of the day, you know, we can all do a show like this.
36:14It's what happens after the words.
36:16It's the actions.
36:17And I hope that you and Charlie and David, to a lesser degree, but you and Charlie can
36:22build a relationship, compromise.
36:24You're right.
36:25You know, talk.
36:26Do you know, I'm actually really chuffed that we've done this, and I really wish you the
36:29best.
36:30David, Charlie, and importantly, Michael on the Jeremy Carr Show.
36:31Stay there, guys.
36:32All right.
36:33Well done, mate.
36:34Fair play to you.
36:35Well done.
36:37Okay.
36:38Good luck to all of them.
36:39Now, next up, we meet Tracy.
36:40Her relationship with commitment-phobic fiancé Lloyd has reached a breaking point.
36:45How do they sort out their differences today?
36:47Lloyd, I brought you here today.
36:48You either set a date for a wedding, or I'm walking, because I can't take it no more.
36:55And you can keep that until you decide.
37:03Neighbours are being intimidated by ASBO kids.
37:06Perhaps it's a long-term rift that needs mending.
37:08Or maybe it's your family who are looked down on.
37:10Are you sick of being the talk of the town?
37:12Do you need some help disciplining your kids before they terrorise the area?
37:16If life on your street is becoming unbearable, text the word TALK plus your name today to
37:2063334, or call me now.
37:2209011.
37:23It's 30 50 60.
37:25Thank you very much indeed, welcome back.
37:34Now, my next guest Tracy's relationship has reached breaking point after her fiancé has backed out of their wedding just one time too many.
37:42Let's hear more.
37:43This is Tracy on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
37:44I have to say, this is quite fascinating. I know it's your life. You've been with Lloyd for four years.
37:57Yeah.
37:58When did he ask you to marry him?
38:00Two years ago, he proposed to me.
38:02Had you nagged him to do that, or did he do that off his own back?
38:05He'd done that off his own back.
38:06Was it romantic?
38:07Yeah, he got on one knee and proposed, he did everything properly.
38:12So he did all that, he bought you a ring?
38:13Yeah.
38:14And then you thought, right, that's good, I'll set a date.
38:17And every time I've set a date, he's backed out of it.
38:21Um, he really does back out of it though. I mean, you've booked the church.
38:25Yep.
38:26I've booked the vicar twice, and he's backed out of it.
38:29He's backed out of it today, because we should have seen the vicar again at two o'clock.
38:34What about, what about the dress? Didn't you bring your veil with you today?
38:38Yes.
38:39Yeah?
38:40Why do you think he's so against actually setting the date?
38:44Because he's scared, because he's had bad experiences in the past.
38:49He just thinks it's going to be the same again.
38:52And as a result of this, the relationship hasn't been great?
38:55No.
38:56So I don't really understand, well, you don't feel attractive around him?
38:59No, I don't.
39:00You initiate everything sexual.
39:03He just, it's all one-sided.
39:05It is.
39:06He never ever, I can't, he doesn't take you on dates, and he's never bought you a present.
39:10No.
39:11So why would you want to marry him then?
39:13Why would you want to marry him?
39:15Because I love him.
39:17You've put a lot into this though, and it's important that we say this.
39:21You've got him through a drink problem.
39:23Yeah.
39:24You got him through a nervous breakdown, and you now feel that this guy is just pushing you
39:28away.
39:29So what are you here today to say to him?
39:31He either makes a date today, or I walk.
39:34I don't believe you.
39:36I will walk.
39:37Definitely?
39:38Definitely.
39:39Why can't you and he be together without marriage?
39:44Because I want commitment.
39:45I want him.
39:46Why can't you be committed without getting married?
39:49Because marriage to me would make our relationship perfect.
39:53Better or perfect?
39:54Better.
39:55I'm being honest to you.
39:57People might disagree with me.
39:59Why?
40:00It's like people who say, I'll have a baby to make a relationship.
40:03What I'm trying to say to you is, if you don't feel attractive, if physically you initiate
40:07everything, if he doesn't buy you presents, he's never really taken you on a date.
40:11Aren't those things what you should be working at before you desperately want a ring stuck on
40:16your finger, which says to the world, I'm married or whatever, and actually doesn't change
40:20the root cause of the problems?
40:21That's what I'm saying to you.
40:22Shouldn't you two be channelling your energies into making this relationship better?
40:26I've tried.
40:27I've done everything I've made.
40:29Romantic meals, everything.
40:31He doesn't do nothing.
40:32It's all one-sided.
40:33Set a date or I will leave you.
40:35Yep.
40:36Are you sure?
40:37I am sure.
40:38Let's bring him on.
40:39Lloyd's on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
40:49Welcome to the show.
40:50I've sort of got a take on this but I'm going to wait.
40:53Two years ago you went down on bended knee.
40:55I did, yes.
40:56Did you do that because you wanted to or because you were pressurised?
40:59No, I did that myself.
41:01I know I've had a lot of problems in the past.
41:04Yep.
41:05And don't get me wrong, I love Tracy to bits.
41:11She's an absolutely wonderful lady who's stuck by me through thick and thin.
41:17And I just wanted to prove I was committed to her by asking her to marry me.
41:21And we have to be careful but you've had experience, you know, there are problems in the past which come home to roost.
41:26Yes, that's right.
41:27You've said, and I think it's important that you tell Tracy this, but you've said to our researchers that life at the moment is just one big, long nag.
41:35And it is all about, when are we going to get married?
41:38When are we...
41:39And it drives you met.
41:40Tell her.
41:41You know, you're leaning away from her.
41:42Tell the lady you profess to love.
41:44I mean, she knows I do love her.
41:46No, tell her the truth.
41:47You do know I love you.
41:48I mean, but I'm just scared of having lost everything from an ex-partner.
41:57Having lost absolutely everything, I'm scared of getting married and being another divorce statistic again.
42:06The problem with long engagements is, if you're going to ask somebody to get married, just do it.
42:10Too many people, they want an engagement ring on their finger.
42:12I'll have it for 11 years.
42:13Why?
42:14Because it makes me feel secure.
42:16I'm not saying.
42:17I'm actually on your side and I don't want you to be upset with me.
42:20Do you know, I said to her already, you're not a very good boyfriend, are you really?
42:24What's all this?
42:25I haven't been, no.
42:26You don't make her feel attractive and you're leaning away from her.
42:29She initiates everything.
42:30Look at her.
42:31Physically, right?
42:32She buys her own Christmas presents.
42:34What's that all about?
42:35Well, she has all the money.
42:37She holds all the money.
42:38He's never taken me on a date or bought me anything.
42:41I don't know why she'd want to marry in the first place, Lloyd.
42:43You need to work on the relationship, right?
42:46A marriage is an extension of two people's love.
42:49You would admit, wouldn't you, Trace, that the basis of it at the moment isn't that good.
42:52Yeah?
42:53Yeah.
42:54But she, mate, is not listening to me.
42:55She's got an ultimatum for you.
42:56I'll just sit here.
42:57Carry on.
42:58Lloyd, I brought you here today.
43:00You either set a date for a wedding or I'm walking.
43:03Because I can't take it no more.
43:06And you can keep that until you decide.
43:16OK, take a breather, Lloyd.
43:17I'll be back.
43:18I'm just gonna see if we can get Trace and her mum, Linda, who we're gonna bring on the show next.
43:22It's, er, Linda.
43:23All right, Trace.
43:24Move over a second, Lloyd.
43:25I've been very honest and you know why, don't you?
43:26Yeah.
43:27Because I just think there's a lot of stuff there that needs working on.
43:29I need to repeat to you what I said.
43:30If he ends up doing it out of pressurised sympathy or emotional blackmail, he's not gonna be what he wants.
43:43You don't want to force him down that aisle, do you?
43:46No, but he just won't commit himself to me.
43:50But he's put an engagement ring on your finger.
43:52That's a commitment, isn't it?
43:53Living with somebody is a commitment.
43:54Going out with somebody is a commitment.
43:55Taking somebody to the cinema is a commitment.
43:57But he's never done any of that.
43:59He's never took me anywhere.
44:00That's what I'm saying.
44:01Can't we work on, let's make the relationship better so that maybe he feels more secure, you feel more loved and then it's a natural thing rather than, unless you do it in one week, I'm out of here.
44:10Do you understand what I'm saying?
44:11Can't we work on making the relationship better?
44:13Yes or no?
44:14Yeah.
44:15Don't you want to be taken out and wined and dined and treated like a princess?
44:18I'd love to.
44:19Right, let's go and sort it out.
44:20Let's bully him into taking you out.
44:21Come on.
44:22Tracy's back, ladies and gentlemen.
44:28What I absolutely defend her on is, you can be insecure about the past, you can be worried that you haven't got enough money.
44:34You want to treat her like a lady and you don't.
44:36And I'll tell you what she has every right to say.
44:38Start showing me some affection, some attention and treating me like a woman or I'll walk.
44:42I understand you don't want to get married, but you need to show this lady that you are committed in terms of how you treat her.
44:48That's what I think.
44:49And if you don't, I think she has every reason to walk away.
44:51But she's obsessed with being married to you.
44:53I think she...
44:54Don't you want to change him first?
44:55Yeah.
44:56Yeah.
44:57Let's bring Mummy on.
44:58Linda's on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
44:59APPLAUSE
45:00Be a man and act like a responsible adult.
45:11Because at the moment, Lloyd, you're like a pathetic little boy.
45:15Welcome to the show, Linda.
45:17How are you?
45:18Hello, Jeremy.
45:19Take a seat.
45:20First up, as the mum, I want you to look at me and nobody else.
45:23Yes.
45:24Do you not agree with me?
45:25Why she wants to marry a man who...
45:27He has every right to say no.
45:28He has every right to not want to get married right now.
45:30I do agree.
45:31I do agree.
45:32But doesn't he need to start treating her like a princess?
45:34He doesn't do anything.
45:35And she's like, marry me.
45:36And I'm saying, take her out.
45:38Treat her nicely.
45:39What do you think of him?
45:41Your face says a lot, to be fair, but...
45:44Erm...
45:45Like I said to one of your researchers,
45:48if mothers could choose their daughter's partners,
45:51believe me, that would not be my choice.
45:54I'm sorry, but he wouldn't.
45:57I have got a beautiful daughter there.
46:02I have seen her in the wedding dress.
46:04And she looks like a princess.
46:07But now, one thing I will say, Linda, right?
46:09That's one day.
46:11You've just...
46:12Look at me.
46:13That's one day.
46:15Channel your energy, if you love her, Mummy,
46:17into telling her that she wants to make sure
46:20that he starts to treat her differently
46:22and not be obsessed with setting a date for the wedding.
46:24This has to be about, can he take her out?
46:27Can he whine her?
46:28Can he dine her?
46:29Can he make her laugh?
46:30Can he...
46:31I don't know.
46:32You know, I'm married.
46:33But you know what I'm saying?
46:34That is what...
46:35I think you're both.
46:36He has every right, you see, because you're both.
46:38I've got a date.
46:39I've got the veil in the suit.
46:40Wait...
46:41And he's like...
46:42I'd be saying,
46:43listen, mate, I deserve, at 35,
46:45I don't mean that as it sounds,
46:46you to treat me nicely.
46:47And unless I start to see that you take me out,
46:50not buy me stuff,
46:52take me for...
46:53Just show her some attention, quality time,
46:55I'll walk.
46:56That's what you need to be telling your daughter, madam,
46:58not he's some low-life waste of space.
47:00True, true, Tracy.
47:01You know, I mean...
47:03Look at it.
47:04How long have you been together?
47:05Nearly five years this year.
47:07Where have you been?
47:08What have you done?
47:13And you know what you two need to do?
47:15You need to show him, if he starts to change,
47:17that you trust his commitment,
47:19because I have to say, Linda, commitment,
47:21he's dead right.
47:22It shouldn't just be judged on a ring on a finger.
47:24One in three marriages in this country end in divorce,
47:27and too many people do it too quickly, okay?
47:30Let's forget about wedding dresses and veils,
47:32I know, but let's give it three months, six months,
47:34let's see if we can build a relationship.
47:36That's what you're saying as well, isn't it?
47:37It is, basically.
47:39I don't think you should even think about marriage, you two.
47:42Yes!
47:43I really don't.
47:45Let's go, let's set you a challenge.
47:47You can police it.
47:49One month, you don't talk about the wedding.
47:52At all.
47:53Look at me.
47:54Can you do that?
47:55Yeah.
47:56How would that feel?
47:58Different.
47:59One month where once a week you take her out.
48:02Ooh, I've got to spend money.
48:03I would love to take her out.
48:04Right.
48:05If I could afford to, Jeremy,
48:06I would take this woman out every single day.
48:07You can take her out for a walk in the park.
48:08You can take her out for a walk in the park.
48:09One month, no talk of wedding.
48:11One month, take her out.
48:14And whatever else goes on, that's your business.
48:16Good luck.
48:17Lloyd and Linda on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
48:19Stay there.
48:23Good luck.
48:26Good luck to Tracy and to Lloyd.
48:28Thank you very much indeed for watching.
48:29We are out of time for now.
48:31But until next time, goodbye.
48:52When I get to the top of the 170 this year, we're going to do our moment.