The Jeremy Kyle Show 5th December 2017
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00:00You are watching On Demand.
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00:06as it may not count and you may still be charged.
00:10On today's show, what's the accusation?
00:13Come and give it to me.
00:13Apparently I've stolen that liquid offer.
00:16I can't get shot to every house.
00:17I can't get shot to every house.
00:22I'm talking to someone else.
00:24You're going to do a walk to me.
00:26You're going to do a walk to me.
00:27What's that look at you?
00:28I've not done anything wrong.
00:31Why does it say 90 quid in two installments from her account?
00:35I have a clue.
00:36You brought that 90 quid out of her bank
00:38and everybody knows it.
00:40Charlie abandoned me when I was four days old.
00:43You don't call her mum?
00:44No, I don't call her mum.
00:45She doesn't deserve the title of your mum.
00:49Where is she?
00:50Tell you one thing.
00:51It's not the last chance.
00:54You've had the last chance.
00:55You're the one who turned around and went off.
00:58You're the one who turned around and went off for this.
01:02You've got nothing.
01:03No, no.
01:05You've got nothing to do with this.
01:08I can't follow you in there.
01:12You've got nothing to do with this.
01:14I have nothing to do with this.
01:22I can't follow you in there.
01:24I can't follow you in there.
01:25I can't follow you in there.
01:25Oh, my friends, good morning and a big, big welcome to the show.
01:35Right, my first guest today, Claire, is here to confront her ex-best mate Nikita,
01:39a woman she claims is hell-bent on trying to destroy her life
01:42by spreading vicious lives that she's a thief.
01:44Now, Claire says that she is horrified
01:46that nine years of friendship has been thrown down the drain
01:49because of ridiculous accusations, and today, once she says she sets the record straight,
01:52she says, Nikita, you're out of my life for good.
01:55This lady says to clear my name, this woman's a liar.
01:58Claire is on the Jeremy Kyle show that way.
02:07How are you?
02:07All right, thank you.
02:08You look like you're absolutely primed for this.
02:10Let's cut to the chase.
02:11Nine years of friendship, what's the accusation?
02:13Come on, give it to me.
02:14Apparently, I saw 90 quid off her.
02:16Oh, shut your mouth!
02:20Shut your mouth!
02:23I feel a mouth, Shauna, because I'll wipe your eyebrows off your mouth!
02:29Oh, wait, I'm talking, something like that!
02:31You're a dastle, a secret, a little f***er!
02:33You're gonna do what to me?
02:37Yeah.
02:38What's happening?
02:39You're gonna do anything wrong!
02:42You're a dastle, a secret, a little f***er!
02:46You're a dastle, a little f***er!
02:53Yeah.
02:54You're a dastle, a little f***er!
02:56Whip, me will whip, you will whip, me, or you.
03:05Lovely pairs of you two.
03:10Good morning and welcome to The Jeremy Kyle Show.
03:13Later on, later on we'll be giving you a recipe on barbecued spare ribs
03:18and Graham will be talking about his new novel,
03:21How To Psychoanalyse People With No Hair.
03:24Why did I say that before that? Welcome back.
03:27Well, you never went anywhere, did you?
03:29How long have you been friends with Nikita, is it called?
03:32Nine years.
03:33Let's talk about this money.
03:35She thinks I stole money from a bank account's complete lies I would never steal
03:38with best mates for nine years and what she's done is ruin this friendship.
03:42Why would she accuse you then, sweetheart?
03:44Pfft, I don't have a clue, mate.
03:46I don't know why you're having a go at me, mate.
03:48I don't have a clue.
03:49Who said you were like sisters?
03:51We was.
03:52What happened then? Help me out.
03:53I don't know.
03:54Basically, I lost my card on the 11th.
03:57You lost your what?
03:58My bank card on the 11th.
03:59Oh, right, oh, right.
04:00I can't...
04:01Shut up!
04:02Shut up!
04:03Just, just, just be quiet.
04:04Go on.
04:05And then...
04:06Please look at me so I get the impression that I'm involved in this show.
04:09And then, erm, I cancelled it on the 12th.
04:14Then I text her...
04:15Did you nick her money?
04:16Yeah.
04:17Then why's she saying you did?
04:18That I'm a clue.
04:19You say, you say that, that, that, that you believe that this is an attention-seeking thing,
04:24you've moved out, you've moved on with your life and you think that she's jealous,
04:27but she's spreading vicious lies, you say I'm sick of the abuse.
04:29What's she been saying?
04:30That she's gonna make me homeless and everything.
04:32All right, well, Nikita, I'm looking forward to this,
04:34because it was very good to meet you anyway, but where are you going now?
04:36Not anywhere from.
04:37I don't want to be here.
04:38LAUGHTER
04:39APPLAUSE
04:41NIKITA'S ON THE JEREMY CARL SHOW THAT WAY!
04:54CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
04:59This chair's great here, cos then I can't smell her.
05:02CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
05:04Nikita, without shouting and screaming, what's the accusation?
05:07Tell me, what's happening?
05:08Well, on the 15th, I woke up at about...
05:1015th of what?
05:11..September.
05:12Nice.
05:13Woke up about quarter past two, I'm sat there.
05:15I go on my online banking, Claire...
05:17See, I took £50 and then £40, got in touch with her.
05:22Her bank card is at her mum's house.
05:24She didn't lose it, she had it at her mum's.
05:26So you've got definitive proof that she's stolen it?
05:29Yeah, I've got my bank statement here...
05:31Put that up on the screen.
05:33Got to do it.
05:34Brought it out.
05:35Just got to do it.
05:36There you go.
05:37Fact.
05:38You don't need a lie detector.
05:39You don't need a phone online.
05:40Missy, take a second, Emma.
05:41And you want a medication?
05:42What aisle, via mobile, £40 that day.
05:44Get it!
05:4590 pounds!
05:46Name to your account, online.
05:49Why are you lying?
05:50I'm not lying.
05:51Darling, it's there in black and white.
05:52Come on!
05:53Why would it say, from your account...
05:56I didn't even have it online, thank you!
05:57Why is it there with your name?
05:59I didn't even have it online, thank you!
06:00Get this!
06:01Get this!
06:02You didn't have an iPhone, but yesterday you're on Paige's Facebook waving an iPhone around
06:05live on Facebook.
06:06Duh!
06:07Didn't it?
06:08I didn't have an iPhone!
06:09Yes, you did!
06:10Sorry, let's cut to the chase.
06:12Why does it say 90 quid in two installments from her account?
06:15Duh!
06:16Duh!
06:17Duh!
06:18Duh!
06:19Duh!
06:20Come on!
06:21You are actually so bad at lying.
06:22Alright then.
06:23You...
06:24Who are you?
06:25I'm a boy, I'm Nikita's boyfriend.
06:27Pure...
06:28Nikita's boyfriend.
06:29Right, well he's there in black and white, isn't he?
06:32I've been there from the moment it happened.
06:34I woke up that...
06:35Who's that?
06:36Yes!
06:37Yes!
06:38They've known each other for a week.
06:41No we haven't.
06:42I don't care how long they've made each other.
06:44Did you steal the money?
06:45No.
06:46Then have three minutes to work out how you can possibly justify on television that it says
06:50on a bank statement...
06:51I didn't have...
06:52It says your name, you donut!
06:55Wait!
06:56I'm gonna go nuts back after this break!
06:59It's about to work!
07:00It's about to work!
07:01It's about to work!
07:02It's about to work!
07:03It's about to work!
07:04It's about to work!
07:05It's about to work!
07:06Darling, you run off like that, you look as guilty as sin.
07:09Get out here, it shouldn't be a young girl supporting you.
07:12Do you think you're being lied to?
07:19Do you have evidence to prove it, like home videos, recordings or texts, that you want
07:23to confront someone with?
07:24If you're 18 or over and you'd like to be considered for the show, email talk at itv.com.
07:28Along with your number, text talk, plus your name to 63334, text costs 25 pence plus one
07:34standard rate message, or you can call my team today.
07:37It's 09011, it's 123456, course costs 25 pence plus network access charge.
07:52Welcome back for the break, Claire and Nikita.
07:54What's your mate called Paige?
07:55How long you known Paige?
07:56About three months now.
07:58Four weeks!
08:01Paige is..
08:02out away!
08:08Why not?
08:09Because you probably had to..
08:10away!
08:11No, we didn't actually!
08:12Go away!
08:13It's..
08:14it says on there the bank thing that she had the money to come on but on this
08:31living she had she lost the bank card on the 12th where are you going to go
08:36cancel a bank card where he done and you run off like that you look as guilty as
08:42sing get out here it should be a young girl
08:51money how do you know you've only had a four weeks not four weeks I've known a few
08:55months because I am she messaged yeah the money didn't you she did I can't look
09:01anybody in the face you need the money
09:12right and then messaged at the next day say no I kissed your boyfriend she was
09:19like oh who's kissed his boyfriend there's 90
09:22who kissed your ex-boyfriend but he's still trying to say that was me no I got
09:29told they were yeah well it won't say you said nothing yeah that's why this
09:34screenshot saying I didn't I've seen I've seen that actually saying did you nick
09:39her money then could you look me in the eyes and explain how your name's on the
09:43bank statement as soon as I knew I was moving out of it I deleted your name on the bank
09:48what is the need moldy food underneath the sink and stuff you rock that night
10:02you quit out of her bank and everybody knows it you're a little thief
10:06you said nothing you're guilty aren't you yeah yeah you are there
10:14man she's my friend quick women I didn't take really she's left 300 quid
10:19have you seen her last time for the thought in her dad you know
10:22you're the kind of about nine years and then she'll rob money
10:25no money's gonna have my house show rob money
10:28who's you say that these two are bullies they've been bullying you may
10:39online you've been making they've been making you've been bullying a while she
10:42blocked us on Facebook the same day the money disappeared on my account is that
10:44true yeah for a fact I was gonna plaster my name all over Facebook and I knew you
10:50were guilty to write a status about it why would you best friend of nine years yes
10:55you was can't believe you're accusing me I didn't do yeah nine years I told you
11:01everything and you go rob out my account you're a little because I can afford my
11:07own life because I live on my own and have my own little life going ahead and
11:11you're in a little shabby hostel in yeah me to get a bath that is gross that is
11:18gross and who has a bath she had a bath once after a half living at Nikita she had to
11:24tell you to wash your hair because we was going out the night on that night
11:28before so she could plot your hair because it was so greasy there are
11:32people who will watch this and say that you're quite a formidable partnership and
11:35you're bullying her but you can't give me anything that would make me think that
11:38you're not by the end of the day I didn't are you guilty you look it love
11:42that's nice oh shut your mouth you'd like to what did you steal the money no
11:51Jeremy no not anybody in the eyes when you say I have my own money you get 250
11:56yeah that's not even had the to pay your money back you are where 180 quid you are
12:02where yeah 180 quid yeah that's about it that's how much of a lowlife you are you
12:06won't even pay her back come very quiet page but yeah it's all right for you to
12:11go around see the other people then say to my god I have cancer oh did I say that
12:17you said that to someone because I said that to someone really you want to bring
12:21that up when I'm going through tests for cancer myself do you see the messages
12:25yeah you see the messages from how long ago when I'm going through that scare on my own and she knows
12:30you said Claire's got a history of lying yeah she has she could at least after
12:45these can't do a lie detector the rules are well set on the jeremy carl shift
12:48Ellen without shouting and screaming one final thing there are two but there's a
12:53bank statement that shows that two withdrawals transfers whatever you want to
12:56make in your name on the dates that fit for a total of 90 pounds the money left
13:03her account and went to you it would seem without being unfair the evidence is
13:08pretty stacked against you anything to say because you've gone very quiet haven't
13:12you page as you could have don't leave your handbag around you too can I make a
13:20suggestion on I'm being serious you might not like this and put it down to
13:25experience and move on with your life because you get into truck you won't get
13:28into trouble if you continue this you have to live with your conscience you do
13:31that way you do that way thank you
13:36well my sister today so he's here to confront a mother Charlie woman she says
13:41literally abandoned her 19 years ago Sophie says she has spent a lifetime
13:45longing to have a relationship with her estranged mother but had nothing in
13:48return today she says this really is her mum's last chance this is a big day for
13:51this girl she's waited for basically all of her life to get answers this girl is
13:56backstage but she says I'm absolutely convinced it's now or never this is a
14:01brave girl let's let's give her a round of applause Sophie's on the Jeremy
14:04show how are you
14:06you okay
14:07yeah yeah I'm fine
14:09you know what's interesting after doing this for 13 years these sorts of
14:13stories you know the girl or the boy that hasn't been in their mum's life
14:17people say an awful lot and then they come here and they freeze why are you
14:20here talk to me
14:21it's just because Charlie abandoned me when I was four days old you don't call
14:24her mum no I don't call her mum she didn't deserve the type of being a mum
14:27she's shouting already and apparently there was an incident and then but then I got a
14:33different side that she couldn't cope and so you're in care all your life was
14:37you far in a minute love let us speak and did you ring this show or did she I did why and it's
14:44just because I just want answers why she hasn't been there but you've tried or
14:48have you tried before yeah I tried I tried messaging her on Facebook got
14:52blocked and I was supposed to go to Birmingham and then got blown off
14:57because apparently she had a flood so you literally got brought up and you've
15:02never met this woman yeah you've never met this woman I mean I've met her once
15:07and then that was it never met your dad met this woman once 19 years later you're
15:11seeing her as balanced as you like saying I just want answers yeah what if you
15:14don't get those answers I've done this a long long time what if she comes out
15:17and she's just like it wasn't my fault times were different then what do you
15:20do what do you want I mean you must want a relationship because you're here but
15:24the thing that I'm always saying to people is what if you don't get what you
15:26want that's what worries me I mean if I don't get what I want then it's a
15:29last chance I'm not doing anything more it's interesting as well if you look at
15:32this story you think to yourself where's the woman being but then you've made
15:35efforts in the last few years and months and she still hasn't bothered so I
15:38literally don't know oh she on her way is she where is she tell you one thing it's
15:43not the last chance what do you mean it's not the last chance you've had the last
15:50chance you weren't in her life for 19 years and you come out
15:53I know the story why'd you give your child up she's never been abandoned why did you give your child up
15:58I never gave her up where was the kid then why was the child it wasn't four days old at all
16:04it was ten months old why though because she knows why I don't tell me I can't say on camera
16:15why not because it wasn't my fault so ten months I mean we can't talk about led you to put your
16:21daughter in care yeah she wasn't in care can somebody help me I know I get the distinct
16:27impression that everybody thinks I'm a grumpy old man you said you went into care I've only ever met
16:32you once you're saying she didn't go into care what am I supposed to do make this up did you go in care
16:36yeah I did yeah she just said she did I got gave up and then I got given I never gave you up for
16:42then why didn't you see it for 19 years then that wasn't my problem how am I supposed to do this
16:55it's not my problem I don't know why didn't you see your daughter then when she went into care slash
17:00didn't I saw her till I had the car accident when was that 2002 why are you shouting at me that
17:08was 15 years ago so you haven't seen her for 15 years because I've been so well and she knows this
17:16I mean I remember wanting to know the one right it's been blocking me on Facebook you're the one
17:23who turned around and went I've had enough of this yeah you haven't been there no because you won't let
17:30me have the chance well of course I won't I nearly died in 2014 yeah of course I'm not gonna give
17:38you a chance because you haven't been there who are you I'm a boyfriend I've been through my
17:42yes I do yes I do I've been there nine months where have you been
18:00nine months I've been by her side the entire time I'm welcome to the show why do I have a stage
18:12one of me stood in a cupboard right for whatever reason bear with me and don't think badly of me
18:19because you're not gonna like what I say but there you go will I sleep tonight probably if I'm honest
18:24I will through no fault of your own she did or didn't go into care through no fault of your own
18:30you've had a car accident why do I get the distinct impression that people like you would make any damn
18:35excuse to explain why they haven't been in their child's life would you just explain that I've been
18:39trying to be there right okay how by being blocked on Facebook people can use the one who's been
18:48blocking me from when she went into care slash didn't why has there been no contact you say I've
18:55only met her one she says I've never even met I've met I've been there all the time will you please
18:59help me that's because I've seen you twice shut your mouth it's not about you shut your mouth
19:06I can't follow you in there I'm not quick quick coming we're going to a break back in a minute
19:12don't go anywhere what she done so wrong to you when she went into care at four days old what was
19:17so wrong it wasn't four days old you're supposed to be there for your kids because you gave birth to
19:23them you're a useless waste of space for my mum
19:26what's that all about why have I got to put up with her because she's your daughter love yeah I
19:46know that but this is her last time then why don't you turn around and answer what she needs answering
19:51because as the mother you have the responsibility and you need to speak love yeah you do you just
19:57no it is yeah he always is always poking his nose in right okay he and I will step out of it if you
20:05don't speak we can't do it one of you's lying Sophie this is your last chance because I keep saying to
20:11you right what unbelievable I keep saying to you in the afternoon I have what do you mean it's her last
20:17chance what she don't so wrong to you when she went into care at four days old what was so
20:22when she went in care to when you had the car accident did you have any contact with it right
20:39and since the car accident you can't have any contact with her I couldn't get to her yeah people
20:44have lost limbs and still do more than you do it's not about other people this is about you and your
21:00mother there are two very different stories here she says that she's been there how anybody can say
21:06that with her track record is beyond me she's going to make the reasons that she's made you've got to
21:11speak your boyfriend's very vocal have you had any relationship with this lady I haven't when you
21:15were in care did she visit you know since the accident has she visited you somebody's got photos of us
21:23having contact them well I'd love to see them I don't know what actually some people do actually expect
21:31me to say you to just how many times have you seen your daughter in the last ten years I couldn't say
21:47why not you're a mother how many times no because there was issues in my relationships so we've got
21:54issues in the relationships a car crash a flood in Birmingham and a reason why she went into care with
22:00the grace of respect in a very calm way you've got to understand where this girl's coming from all
22:05you do is scream at the top of your voice and somehow try and justify the fact that you haven't
22:09been there now hopefully people know me well enough if you've got justifiable reasons then we'll do that
22:14but you've done nothing but say this is your last chance Sophie that's not in the charter of being a
22:18parent is it in the in the charter of being a parent whatever rubbish you go through good
22:23bad or indifferent you're supposed to be there for your kids because you gave birth to them love
22:27that's the point well you read the messages now I've had a fair thing of course and why would she send you
22:33messages like that she sends you messages like that because she's angry about the fact that you
22:37haven't been about and this woman can't even talk to you can she's been begging she's been saying to us I
22:42want to see this woman you just it's just like it's a facade with you Sophie you have to do this
22:48why don't you come tell her to get answers basically right do you love your daughter
22:55what knows I love her then why don't you answer her questions because I don't think she does know
23:00you love her you know I've always been there so I'm sorry but you're a useless waste of space for a
23:07mom are you going again that's it come on hurry up where's she going now she knows that I love her
23:16that's what you said she doesn't feel that does she otherwise she wouldn't be here darling there are
23:22obviously reasons sorry there are obviously reasons but you've got to understand unless you tell her
23:28however unfair you think this is we get nowhere this is about a mother and a daughter now somebody
23:35if you may knows that you're lying one of you have you seen your mother I've seen her once has she
23:41been in your life enough no why I know about the flood in Birmingham the accident I know all about
23:47that but have you as a mother done enough for a yes or no I can hand my hands up no right so we're
23:53getting somewhere that's all she wants to hear that's the point now it's really easy to come out
23:58here and look back at your life God I do every day and think should have done that should have done this
24:02but what this kid presumably wants and yes she's got a boyfriend Dylan and he's quite vocal and and
24:07you're not and and she's not and she's gone all quiet talk to your kid talk to your daughter nobody
24:13else I love you I want a bond yeah but doesn't feel like that what do you want from your mum tell her
24:19like answers and possibly a bond but this is honest to God your last chance because I tried to make that
24:27effort back in Birmingham you didn't turn up there was a flood which I later found out that there wasn't
24:32there was right great we've done this many times before and sometimes people come on the show and
24:38they say I want answers and I need that to move forward in any closure sometimes people don't get
24:42the answers to the the questions that they want and then they have to draw a line in the sand but but
24:46it seems to me that we've got two people here who aren't prepared to accept the other's position
24:49you have to acknowledge what you've done doesn't she well yeah but I find it interesting that you say
24:55that she knows that you love her she clearly doesn't that's an interesting thing okay so we
25:03can it's easy isn't it for us to say we love each other you know I love you and somebody will respond
25:07and say I love you you know it's not about it's not just about that it's nice to hear okay this about
25:13behaviors substance how you demonstrate that love that's the important thing and so what she's saying
25:19to you is that when you'd arrange that meeting in Birmingham and you didn't turn up okay she didn't
25:24feel loved at that point it was important for you to turn up and I know there were circumstances that
25:30led to you not turning up but then on the back of that you can explain those circumstances and
25:35rearrange that meeting okay so it's about how you interact with each other it's so easy to say you
25:41love someone it's about how you demonstrate that in behaviors between you so first and
25:47foremost you have to establish the one fact and that is do we want a relationship okay if you both
25:55agree to that that you both want this relationship then we can move it forward but when we move this
26:00relationship forward what I heard your daughter say is that I want answers okay to some of those
26:06questions that might be a painful process for you as well giving her those answers and you have to be
26:11prepared to do that as well so like I say first and foremost you need to agree that you want a
26:16relationship together and you know it's possible for that to happen I mean here's Russia let's not
26:22rush that here's a girl who's saying from our point of view I went into care for whatever reason
26:27we can't talk about that my mum's had a series of issues including a car accident and hasn't been in
26:32my life you say to me yeah but you should read the text messages she's saying she's vile most people
26:37watching this will go she's every reason to be bitter and twisted she's lashing out but the fact that
26:41she's lashing out means in essence she's desperate for acknowledgement she's desperate for a
26:45relationship and thus as the adult surely the start of this process Graham says it's not pay it's not
26:51nice it's going to be painful is you acknowledging that you haven't been there now I know that there
26:54are other people involved in this and it's not you and just you and you're probably sat there
26:57thinking this is really unfair but that's your kid and I see that this bond which she's obviously
27:04desperate for you should you should be reaching out and you really need to speak to your mum that
27:11it's just really why haven't you been there but if you've done more yes I could have done more can
27:17you understand from her point of view that there always seems to be an excuse or a reason however
27:20viable those might be when the flood stops you from meeting her why didn't you rearrange it
27:26because I was moving them when we're going to see your daughter again then if she hadn't run this
27:31show probably another yeah after today when you're going to see your nice oh he's he he's here to
27:40support me right he has said nothing that he said nothing he said nothing he said nothing that isn't the
27:48truth since he came into this old thing I think he's utterly fantastic and obviously loves it what's
27:52wrong with that a little bit answer the question what happens if I've been in hospital and I can't
27:59do anything yeah but do you ring her then stop me from other seeing that one other person and after
28:04today what's your plans what's going to happen after today then what are you going to do well I've
28:10noticed that this whole time there's never been one apology when you're going to see her again
28:16then after today when were you going to plan on seeing her well I've been trying to message her
28:19but she's the one who's blocked me so what else am I supposed to do when are you going to see her
28:23why don't you go around to her house we live too far apart why don't you get transport sorted and go
28:33and see your daughter because it beats so strongly inside your heart and soul that you know that this
28:37is something that's important to her and you why did you block your mother I mean it was just because
28:44she was just feeding me loads of lies and it's just because loads of lies I lie it's lies after
28:50lies after lies and why'd you bother them why don't you just wipe your hands of her I mean I've I've
28:56given one more chance and if and if any more happens then that's it really and you come out and you
29:02say I'm only giving you one more chance it's like a sort of tip-for-tat game isn't it it's your daughter
29:07have you been a good mother I can hand my hands up and say no right that's the first time that's
29:13brilliant you've answered that without saying well I've been ill there was a flood so how are you
29:17going to move it on with that as a starting point to somehow trying to re reconstruct this fractured
29:23relationship how you can do that I don't know I mean I'm willing to travel halfway to see you
29:31Graham's gonna help you do that if it's just as long as you turn up there's a reason I'm traveling
29:37all that way again what am I supposed to do so if I've got appointments can I just ask you a
29:45question right there are I mean you know it's such a difficult job this in it there are people watching
29:52this with terminal illness it wouldn't sit there going and I can't see my child because I've got
29:57appointments go when you haven't got an appointment I think you don't want to see it because you don't
30:10have to acknowledge what's going on how do you feel about that talk to me it's not true to have to
30:19prove it to me or Graham you have to prove it to your daughter who is crying out for a relationship
30:23is she crying no she's not she wanted a relationship she would be there saying mom please I'm really
30:31really really sick of begging for a relationship I'm sick I'm sick absolutely I've got a relationship
30:39with my mom can't say names but one yeah it was broken at one point but we fixed it easy as that
30:45it's a mother-son bond I'm sure I will I'm sure when this shows goes out I'll read Jeremy carl was harsh
30:51but I'm going back to something right people like you will find any excuse in the world to justify
30:56their own inability to do what they should do I can go around and around in circles he'll offer to put
31:01you together right he'll offer to make it work I'll leave you with Graham giving around is a family
31:11secret ruining your life maybe you suspect your partner of having an affair if you're 16 or open
31:17you'd like to be considered for the show email talk at itd.com along with your number text talk
31:22plus your name to 633 34 text plus 25 pence plus one standard rate message or you can call my team
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31:38thank you very much indeed welcome back my next guest today shannon is here because she says that a family
31:47was utterly shattered just over a year ago when her sister was brutally murdered at the hands of her
31:51ex-partner shannon is here because she is terrified that that is going to end up destroying her parents
31:57marriage brave lady and here primarily to try and I don't keep her family together shannon's on the
32:03jeremy kyle show that way
32:13um these are the sorts of stories that you know this show is about everything it's about people's lives
32:20um why do you want to do this here
32:23so everyone knows to be fair tell me about natasha your sister um because this basically centers on her
32:31but beyond that what it's done to your parents tell me what happened
32:35um basically this 22nd of second 16 um my dad had a phone call and basically they're please come over to the house
32:46and said that she'd died and not any of us ever thought that luke had done it tell me about him
32:53what did you know about him he was very quiet he kept himself to himself he didn't really bother with
32:57any of us not aggressive not to honor we didn't think he was because he was quiet you know i i i don't
33:04want to i want to do this differently today because i'm not going to insult you or your family and sit
33:08here and go how do you feel i want to talk about how this is shattering in your words your parents
33:12marriage and i want to try and get a degree of honesty from them this quiet unassuming man was
33:19convicted of the murder of natasha bradbury on the 9th of september 2016 he was given life
33:24imprisonment in order to serve a minimum of 17 years natasha died from blunt force injuries
33:31including cracked ribs a broken neck brain and heart injuries liver split into three 53 single
33:39injuries this the post morton said it was like jumping off a cliff and hitting yourself 53
33:45times man who murdered ex-girlfriend in severe attack jail for 17 years 53 injuries caused by sustained
33:51assault man battered ex-girlfriend to death after she had sex with someone else jury returns unanimous
33:58verdict that luke jones murdered natasha bradbury when you look at that when you think about what this
34:03is done to your family it's almost your parents right yeah
34:09it's from and done like that way you found this show about them it is it's just
34:16when it happens it's meant to bring like a family closer together isn't it really
34:20it's quite interesting what you said and a lot of people watching this will think that's a very
34:24different way to do this you said that your mum used to deal with natasha because she was quite
34:28outgoing and quite loud and your dad was somebody who in essence just got on with life yeah the day
34:35his the day after his daughter was callously murdered or within a few days i think he literally went back
34:41to work yeah these two patently don't talk about it do they no they don't how bad is it affecting their
34:48marriage seriously from your point of view
34:55and numerously they don't sleep in the same bed together they don't talk mum would tell the people
35:02like friends stuff but won't tell me but then leaves that out on everything and he finds out by
35:07someone completely different so then you've got to think how it makes him feel you know when i look
35:11at them i can only think one thing they both look so haunted don't they i think anybody would
35:17to be fair to go through what we have as a family what do you want to say to them why did you bring
35:22them here they need to pull together they do they need to to come out they need to help each other
35:32gonna bring them out together is that all right um tracy and darren on the jeremy carp show give me a round of
35:37applause
35:51so
36:05I don't think you ever get over something like that, do you?
36:13A million years.
36:15No.
36:16Your daughter.
36:18This great girl gets on the phone and she says,
36:21I'm going to come on there and talk about my sister's murder.
36:25I want to talk about how my parents, if they're honest,
36:28are going to end up splitting up over this.
36:35You opened up to my team probably the first time you've opened up.
36:39Talk to me.
36:40I've not spoke to anybody since.
36:42I don't talk to anybody.
36:44Why?
36:45There's nothing I can say that's going to make any difference, does it?
36:49It's happened, it's done.
36:51Feel guilty?
36:51Can't bring her back.
36:52Yeah.
36:53Why?
36:56She called the night before.
36:59As they do.
37:00She was moaning about things, just life.
37:03And the last thing I said via the phone was for her to grow up and get on with life.
37:10And she put the phone down and that was the last I ever spoke to her.
37:13So whatever happens and however much you talk about it,
37:17the last thing that you said to your daughter was grow up and you're consumed by guilt.
37:22Hmm.
37:23Tell me about your wife.
37:26I've been with my wife nearly 30 years.
37:28But yet, we can't even speak any more.
37:32Why?
37:35I don't really know, to be quite honest.
37:36I think we both must blame each other slightly.
37:40Do you blame your wife?
37:42No.
37:43I think she blames me sometimes, mine, but that's fine.
37:46Trace, look at me.
37:47Look at me.
37:48Do you blame your husband?
37:51I do in a little way.
37:52Why?
37:53Why?
37:53Why?
37:53Why?
37:58Because if he wouldn't have said that, most of us, he would have still been here.
38:09Saying that isn't going to affect him, is it?
38:11No, it's not.
38:12But I blame myself as well.
38:14I'm going to say something that...
38:16Actually, the thing about doing this is you sometimes have to say things that people don't really want to hear.
38:20Don't mean that in a bad way.
38:21He wouldn't have mattered whether the last thing he'd said to his daughter was,
38:26I love you from the bottom of my heart and I can't wait to see you in 20 minutes or two weeks or tomorrow.
38:33There are, in my mind, in this world, evil people.
38:38People who don't actually deserve to live in a civilised society.
38:42Most of them you wouldn't know are like they are.
38:44And sadly, for your family and for this girl, predominantly,
38:48she happened to be involved with somebody who had a switch that, when it was flicked, he was what he was.
38:54It's not your husband's fault. It's not your fault.
38:56No, it's not.
38:57And do you want to know something?
38:59Your daughter would be devastated to think that you two were like this now, wouldn't she?
39:05Yeah.
39:05She would. She'd be distraught.
39:09Tell me about your daughter.
39:10Yeah.
39:14She's lovely.
39:16She was full of life.
39:17A bit too much sometimes.
39:21She liked to enjoy herself.
39:27She was good and kind with everybody, weren't she?
39:30Everyone knew her.
39:31Yeah.
39:32She was too nice, really, that's why.
39:34She'd give you the last ten pence out of her purse if you needed ten pence.
39:38And she only had ten pence.
39:40She'd give it you.
39:42You're giving up.
39:43Have I given up?
39:45Yes.
39:46You said that.
39:47I did.
39:48Who are you?
39:49I'm Tracy and Darren's best friend.
39:52You think she's given up?
39:54Yes.
39:55I do.
39:56I hear things that nobody else hears.
39:58I hear from her and I hear from him.
40:03And this has completely broken the whole family, not just them.
40:09It breaks my heart when I walk in the door and Tracy's sitting on a sofa and Darren's sitting on the dining table.
40:15And I love both of them.
40:18And they need to pull it together.
40:23We don't give a shit.
40:24We don't give a shit.
40:24We're saving them.
40:24APPLAUSE
40:25You lost your daughter?
40:33Because of an evil man.
40:35Through none of your fault or your husband's.
40:37And now you're going to lose your husband.
40:38You lost your daughter.
40:40Now you're going to lose your wife.
40:42Because you're too immersed in your grief, I guess.
40:46Stubborn.
40:48To talk?
40:49No.
40:51Don't know how to talk.
40:52Of course you do.
40:52Of course you do.
40:54What are you scared of?
40:56Not look like a man.
40:59I just don't know what the right words are to say.
41:01I don't know how to fix it.
41:02Normally I fix everything.
41:04I just can't fix this one.
41:05You can't make it right, can you?
41:07It's not your fault, man.
41:09Don't lose your family.
41:09That's the nature of the way she has died.
41:12What do you mean?
41:13Well, no way is nice, but it would be...
41:16He battered her to death, didn't he?
41:18Clean her with a bullet.
41:19Can't do anything about that.
41:22Sort of thing can happen to anybody.
41:23Is it the pain that she went through at the hands of this bloke?
41:26Yeah.
41:27And there was five flights of stairs where there wasn't any room without any traces of blood.
41:33Where he chased her through the flights of stairs to the top where she couldn't get out.
41:41Trapped.
41:44One way in, one way out.
41:49Trace, do you love your old man?
41:51I do love him.
41:52He's my kid's dad.
41:55Yeah, that's it.
41:56But at the moment, we just...
42:00It's because you don't speak.
42:01I'm grieving.
42:03We all are.
42:03At the end of the day...
42:04I know you're all...
42:05We all are.
42:05Just because you've lost one daughter, you still have three other kids and two grandkids.
42:09Well said.
42:10The life doesn't end because she's gone.
42:12APPLAUSE
42:13You just need to speak as a couple.
42:22You need to stop telling other people and speak to him first.
42:25Like, I wouldn't dare.
42:27Don't mean, do it to my partner.
42:29You'd have...
42:29I always speak to him about everything.
42:32He's your partner.
42:33You're meant to be strong for each other.
42:35Do me a favour.
42:37Change your body language, because you're like that.
42:39Turn around and face your old man.
42:40I don't.
42:40Go on.
42:42Stand up a minute.
42:43Stand up a minute.
42:44Come here for me.
42:45Stand up a minute.
42:46Stand up.
42:49Sit.
42:50Both of you sit.
42:54Look at him.
42:57Tell her what you think, truthfully.
42:59She knows I've always loved her.
43:00No, no, not she knows.
43:01Tell her now.
43:02I do love her.
43:03I've always loved her.
43:04Tell her how it makes you feel.
43:06Broken.
43:06I lay in the attic every night on my own.
43:12It just goes through my head every minute of the day.
43:16Tell him what goes through your head when you're lying in the marital bed alone.
43:19Tell him.
43:19My daughter.
43:22I see my daughter.
43:27When I first, after three months of losing her, we got to see her.
43:34And we went down to Cardiff to see her.
43:40And the only part on her...
43:42Was...
43:44Was here.
43:46Just here.
43:47The rest of her body was completely...
43:47That weren't...
43:48That was the only part on her.
43:51That was why...
43:52And we wasn't allowed to see the rest of her body, obviously.
43:54The rest of her, so I...
43:56Has anybody helped you to?
43:58I have people to talk to, but...
44:02It's not your old man's fault.
44:04No, I know it's not.
44:05It's not your wife's fault.
44:06It's nobody's fault.
44:07You shouldn't be in the attic.
44:08You should be clinging hold of each other.
44:09Because that man, from his jail cell, is destroying you too.
44:16And your anger, your guilt, your sadness, your understandable devastation,
44:22you're bouncing off each other and that's wrong.
44:26It'd be nice to get it back together, but it just seems hard.
44:29I promise you.
44:30Listen to me.
44:32I want to, um...
44:34I want to help you.
44:35Okay?
44:37And I promise you.
44:39I can't.
44:40I can't.
44:40Listen.
44:41I said it.
44:42What happened is heinous.
44:43That piece of whatever shouldn't...
44:45Shouldn't in any way be part of a civilised society.
44:48But your grieving, the process of grieving, bereavement,
44:52whatever you want to call it, is such a complex one, okay?
44:56I just...
44:58I want to help you.
45:00Get Graham on the show.
45:01Give him a round of applause.
45:03Nice to meet you.
45:03He's never going to actually come on to this part,
45:11only it's really painful to watch this situation unfold.
45:15And it is about a perfect example about how people grieve
45:19and how people grieve in different ways, okay?
45:22And it's...
45:23There's a lot of rational talk going on about what you should do.
45:27And whilst that may take place,
45:30it's not taking into consideration how you feel, okay?
45:35And that's the important thing.
45:36How he feels, how you feel.
45:38And you might find it emotionally smooth...
45:41Sorry, emotionally soothing to talk about loss.
45:46He might find that emotionally painful.
45:49And therefore, he doesn't want to talk in the same way
45:52because he will then experience a very painful experience.
45:56So we do grieve differently, you know,
45:58and men typically will hold on to that.
46:01They have to be strong for the person
46:03that's emotionally speaking about it, okay?
46:07So it's just a perfect example.
46:09And we can come to you who's coping much better with this.
46:12And you don't ever get over this.
46:14Never, ever will you get over this.
46:16You'll just learn to cope better.
46:18Gee, is it interesting...
46:19That's the important thing.
46:20Is it interesting for two people who quite obviously have switched off,
46:23who have gone into themselves physically, mentally, psychologically in every way,
46:28is today coming here and doing this, is that a breakthrough?
46:33It is a breakthrough, particularly in your case,
46:34because this is not just about grief, this is also about anxiety
46:39and the anxiety that you are going through right now.
46:42And she very rarely leaves her home as a result of this.
46:45I don't leave my home. I don't drive my car.
46:47You've come to a television show.
46:49This man's never spoken. Don't you think that's an amazing...
46:51Yeah, it is a breakthrough.
46:53But I think it's just important that, you know, from this segment,
46:56to point out how people grieve in different ways
46:58and nobody's grieving in the right way and nobody's grieving in the wrong way, okay?
47:02But it's been a long time now.
47:04And so, coming up to two years, it's about how do we cope better.
47:09That's the important thing.
47:10Can we help these guys?
47:11Nobody can tell you...
47:11Nobody can tell you that.
47:13Nobody can tell you how to cope with your loss, okay?
47:16But it is how you cope better and how we can help you cope better.
47:20Can we do that?
47:20When you're not coping individually or as a family or as a couple,
47:25however it may be,
47:26then you do need then to look for a professional intervention, okay?
47:30And they can help you.
47:32They can genuinely help you.
47:33And, of course, yeah, we won't provide that.
47:36APPLAUSE
47:37I hope you're glad you came.
47:38I promise you.
47:40I promise you both.
47:41I promise you both we'll do whatever we can, all right?
47:44And I'm going to finish as I started.
47:47It's a beautiful, beautiful girl, full of life.
47:49Cruelly taken by a sick, twisted whatever.
47:52But let me tell you something right now.
47:54There's two things.
47:55She wouldn't want you like this.
47:56And he, right, does not deserve, right, you to be like this.
48:01And we will do our best to put it right, all right?
48:03I want the four of you to go that way.
48:04Give them a round of applause.
48:05Thank you so much.
48:12Great story, nice couple.
48:14We'll do our best.
48:15We'll let you know I am for this morning out of time.
48:16Don't forget, if you want to be on my show,
48:18you need my help, visit my website,
48:19the details are on screen,
48:20to my guest at this audience and to you at home.
48:22Thanks for watching.
48:23I'll see you soon.
48:23Take care.
48:23Bye-bye for now.
48:24APPLAUSE