Mike Florio from Pro Football Talk joins G&D to discuss the NFL owners meetings, and the potential NFL rule changes.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Thank you, Toby. Welcome back. Grant and Danny on the fan. Let's get to the Rude guest hotline.
00:12Welcome onto the show. Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk. Rude, the most reliable heating
00:17and air conditioning products in the DMV. Mike, busy few days with the owners meetings
00:23taking place in Palm Beach. How are you?
00:26Doing good. Doing good. How are you?
00:28Very good. Nice little benchmark of the off season here to take inventory of. Before we
00:33go through some of the specifics, what was your big takeaway or some of your big thoughts
00:38from the owners getting together in Palm Beach?
00:40Well, you know, we went into the thing with very limited proposals from the competition
00:48committee as to rule changes. And there was a smattering of proposals from the teams.
00:54And this whole push push thing, which I'm sure you guys are going to want to talk about
00:58since it involves the Eagles so intimately, that has become like story of the moment,
01:03story of the week, story of the off season, especially since there's this idea that they're
01:08going to make another run at it in May and possibly eliminate the ability of the Eagles
01:13to do that push of the quarterback or whoever receives the snap immediately after the start
01:18of one of those short yardage plays.
01:21So I want to ask you about that, Mike. So just as a quick side, not to leave the witness
01:24here, but if the quarterback sneak wasn't already pretty effective, I would have a lot
01:29more resistance to getting rid of this play. But the quarterback sneaks pretty good. You
01:33can spread people out, you can go a lot of different ways. And I think you'd be pretty
01:36effective having Jalen Hurch's quarterback sneak like everybody else does. But do you
01:39think there's enough momentum to get rid of it? Because I don't.
01:43Well, 15 of the teams supported the Green Bay proposal, which I think was a flawed proposal,
01:50which prohibits immediately pushing the runner after the play begins. What does immediate
01:56mean? I think that would have opened a can of worms regarding officiating consistency,
02:01criticism of officiating where the flag was thrown for a non-immediate push or claims
02:08that the fix is in. If a play was taken away, if a touchdown comes off the board and the
02:14Eagles are pushed back 10 yards in a key moment of a key game. But it was 16-16 on that. The
02:19question is, is they reformulate it? What do they reformulate it to? And there's two
02:23possibilities. One, eliminate all forms of pushing the ball carrier, which would take
02:28the rule book back to pre-2006 when pushing and pulling the ball carrier was a violation
02:35of the rules. Now there would be some unintended consequences regarding some of the specifics
02:39of downfield blocking. If they do that, the other thing they could do is say no pushing
02:43of the ball carrier within the tackle box or within five yards either way of the line
02:48of scrimmage. That would leave the downfield rules the same, but it would eliminate the
02:52pushing as a strategic part of the play that's called and it's executed right out of the
03:00gate. So they're going to come up with some other way to get rid of this play. And I feel
03:05like the commissioner wants to get rid of the play. The league wants to get rid of the
03:09play. They're going to push this until they can find 24 votes in favor of whatever proposed
03:16change they coalesce around. Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk on Grant and Danny,
03:22the overtime rules change for the regular season. It feels like every year there's an
03:25overtime rule change, but both teams are going to get the ball. Even if the first team to
03:30touch the ball scores a touchdown now, just like we do in the playoffs, which seems like
03:33a no brainer. Why won't they extend 10 minutes back to 15? And why isn't the goal to not
03:40have ties over all else? That to me should be the number one priority. You know, my understanding
03:47is it wasn't a health and safety concern to keep it at 10 and not expand to 15. It became
03:53a TV issue and that they don't want to have 1 o'clock bleeding too deeply into 4 o'clock
04:02and you don't want 425. And look, I can, I can vouch for this. You don't want to have
04:07425 games bleeding too deep into the pregame show of record. That's on NBC from 7 to 820
04:16on Sunday night. So since I would admit my selfish interest in, in not having America's
04:22game of the week on Fox take until eight, 10 and leave us five minutes of a show that
04:28anybody gives a crap about. So I'm under the impression, and I've been told that it was
04:32a TV thing that kept it at 10. The problem is when it's at 10, you're going to be more
04:38likely to take the ball. If you win the toss, if it's at 15, you're more likely to choose
04:45to kick. And if they want to have the regular season over time, match the post season over
04:52time, you want the incentive to be, if you win the toss, you're going to kick because
04:57that's what it'll be in the post season. That's why the one time we've seen it was so weird.
05:01The 49ers defied what the analytics would suggest. You kick, you take the ball or you
05:06kick, you kick, you give them the ball. And if they score a touchdown and get one point,
05:12you get the ball back.
05:13If they score a touchdown, you go for two and end it. That's the conventional analytics
05:16approach. So if it's 15 minutes, that's what happens. And that's what happens in the post
05:20season. If it's 10, it changes. So we want to simulate postseason overtime. Why are we
05:26doing 10 minutes? And again, it all comes back to TV. They don't want the games to bleed
05:31too far into either the next window or, or, you know, the, the pregame show in advance
05:37of the eight 25 game on Sunday night.
05:40Are you with me that tie should be viewed as a bad idea in something they should avoid
05:46at all costs?
05:47I don't like ties. I hate ties. And I agree that it should be avoided at all costs. And
05:53you know, the question becomes with a 10 minute overtime, I guess it's going to depend upon
06:01the team. If there is a touchdown and a PAT single point PAT, and there's two or three
06:08minutes left or four minutes left for five and say five, the average drive in overtime
06:13is five minutes. Now that could change because the team that wins the toss or the team that
06:18gets the ball first might try to slow it down a little bit. So that'll make the drive longer
06:23than five minutes.
06:24So let's just say it's five and five, five minutes to get seven, five minutes to match.
06:30And then what are you going to do? Are you going to go for two or are you going to go
06:34for the tie? That becomes a broader conversation than if I know the game is going to revert
06:40to sudden death and I have to kick off and that other team is going to have a fair opportunity
06:47to try to go down and score the game winning points. I'm more likely to go for two. Maybe
06:52I become less likely to go for two. If I'm looking at accepting a tie, you know, we see
06:58in late season scenarios all the time, it's better to have a tie than a loss or a tie
07:03is just as good as a win if you're trying to clinch or hold your spot in a playoff bar.
07:08So I, I, I agree with you. I don't like ties and I hope this isn't going to create more
07:13of them, but the 10 minutes is far more likely to do it than 15.
07:17Mike Floria with us here on G and D Mike, the Christmas day slate. It used to be the
07:22NBA's day no longer belongs to the, to the NFL. Our team, I saw Kansas city, I think
07:27asked to, to be part of that. It's kind of make their own version of Detroit or Dallas
07:30Cowboys on a, on Thanksgiving. You think teams are going to want to vie for that?
07:36Well, I, I wouldn't be surprised if a team wants it, but, but why would you do it? I,
07:40I think that the jets were trying to be the permanent black Friday team. Like just because
07:47the chiefs are good now doesn't mean they're going to be good forever. And anytime there's
07:52a dip in the overall competitiveness of the lions or the Cowboys, and we've been through
07:57it with the lions and maybe we're going to go through it with the Cowboys eventually.
08:01But you know, the argument is always, well, they, they volunteered to play on Thanksgiving
08:06at a time when no one else wanted to do it. Well, that doesn't apply here. Everybody's
08:10going to want to play on Christmas. They're going to want to be part of that captive audience,
08:14that massive audience, the standalone game on a holiday where millions and millions and
08:19millions are going to see you play. Why wouldn't you want to be one of the permanent Christmas
08:24teams? I think the NFL should say no to the chiefs because they're not going to have Patrick
08:28Mahomes forever. They're not going to have Taylor Swift forever. They're not going to
08:30have Andy Reed forever. And, and it is entirely possible as odd as it may seem now to chiefs
08:36fans, there will be a day when your team stinks again. And why do we want to be stuck with
08:41a team that stinks on Christmas day? Hell, I think they should have a flex option depending
08:45upon what day of the week it is for the Christmas games. They're flexing Thursdays now. Why
08:50wouldn't you potentially flex on Christmas to ensure that for those three games that
08:56they're going to play more often than not on Christmas day, they're going to be games
08:59worth watching.
09:00I was going to ask, I am so excited about the Christmas triple header with all apologies
09:05to my family. It's football day that daddy's going to watch some football now. But what,
09:11what is the sustainability or like what's the calendar look like on that? Is that perpetuity
09:15that we're just going to do that? Or is it a few years of that?
09:18Well, remember last year they were saying if Christmas is on a Tuesday or Wednesday,
09:24they're not going to play. And I said, from the moment that they said it, and they said
09:28it on the record, one of the NFL executives said, we're not going to play on Tuesday or
09:31Wednesday if that's when Christmas lands. And I said, bullcrap, you will.
09:34Why did they even say that though? Why would they say that Mike?
09:38Well, I, I think that they didn't, they didn't want to have to come up with a solution to
09:48the challenge of getting players and teams adequate rest. So you could play a game on
09:54a Wednesday or a Tuesday. And what they ultimately did, the four teams that played on Christmas
10:00day on Wednesday, they were carved out and they played on the prior Saturday. So problem solved.
10:07So I knew they'd come up with solution. Once the owners recognized that they were
10:11giving up this holiday, they have seized from the NBA. There's no way they're going to give
10:17that back. There's no way they're giving that back. So what it's going to be now, I believe
10:22it's going to be three games on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
10:26or Monday. And on Tuesday or Wednesday, maybe it'll only be two. I still think that by, I think
10:32it's 20, 29 is the next time that it lands on a Tuesday or Wednesday. I think by the next time
10:37it's on a Tuesday or Wednesday, the triple header is going to be so ingrained. You're going to find
10:40a way to make it, to make it happen. Wow. Mike, what's the first year call
10:44your shot here that we have 18 games in a season? I would guess, well, the earliest it could be is
10:5127 as a practical matter, because there's no date for the super bowl in February of 2028
10:58to be played in Atlanta. So you, you could add an extra week because they don't have it locked in.
11:03It's a big deal. Once you lock in the date and the convention center and the hotels and all that,
11:07it's really hard to change it. So 27 is the earliest. I'll, I'll go ahead and say that
11:12it's going to happen in, if I had to pick a year, I'll say 29, maybe 28, but, but I'd be more
11:19inclined to say 29, but it is inevitable. It's inevitable. Yeah. Here's the, here's what it
11:25boils down to the TBA expires March of 2031. When it expires in the NFL makes its final offer.
11:33It'll lock out the players like it did in 2011 until the players cry uncle, which they'll do.
11:38And part of the offer is going to be 18 games. So if the players are going to have to take
11:4218 games as part of the last best offer that the owners make after they get locked out,
11:46after the players get locked out in 2031, the players have leverage and they have more leverage.
11:52The earlier they agree to it from 2031, because it's definitely coming no later than 2031. So,
11:59okay, let's agree to it for 2027. We get more if we agree to it, if we accept that it's coming.
12:04And I think that negotiations will happen this summer. I think even though the union
12:09has started to huff and puff against it a little bit, they're, they know it's coming.
12:14So if there's a way you can turn it into a positive and get something good for the players
12:20by agreeing to it a few years earlier than when it becomes inevitable, then do it. So 2028, 29,
12:27one of those two years, I think we're going to have it, but we're going to have it at some point.
12:30And the question is going to be, when do they try to push for 19? Cause I think that'll be
12:34the next conversation. Mike Florio with us in DC on Grant and Danny, uh,
12:40the wild card teams being able to host a division champion that stinks.
12:46We remember in 2021, Washington won seven games and the worst division we've seen in a long,
12:52long time. And then hosted the bucks who were much better. This happens every few years where
12:57you get a seven, eight win type division champion. Is there support for that? Did that get tabled or
13:03just voted down? And is it over? I had a discussion and it got tabled. And I think that,
13:11that the lion's proposal to see the seven playoff teams based upon record is a good starting point
13:19for a deeper conversation. Are there things that can be done? For example, at some point,
13:24when this issue came up, they, they talked about the idea of receiving after the wild card round,
13:30and you would have had some impact in the NFC this year. It wouldn't have changed in the AFC,
13:35but let's receive based on record after the first round. So that four seed that you get by being the
13:43champion of the worst division in football doesn't guarantee you ongoing home games against teams
13:49that may have better records. So that's one possibility. I also think if they are considering
13:56feeding the seven teams based on record, you need to take a broader look at the scheduling
14:02formula. Cause I think there needs to be more equity and fairness and balance in how you go
14:08about having the teams play each other. I think back to the days when the college conferences
14:13were small enough that every year you played every team in your conference and the champion
14:18of the conference was, it was obvious the team with the best record because every team in the
14:22conference played every other team. And I'm not saying you go, you go 15 games in the conference
14:27and two inter-conference games, but I think that there needs to be an overhaul of the scheduling
14:33formula, which is based more on variety right now than fairness and equity. If you're going to do
14:40what the lines have suggested, you need to take a closer look at how the schedule is formulated
14:44every year. And there needs to be more, more reflection of games against the teams you're
14:49competing with for those playoff spots. And more importantly, those playoff positions on the tree.
14:56Mike, my last one for you, the lion's proposed rule, something I've long advocated for died on
15:00the vine, not having automatic first downs on penalties. It's not a big deal. If it's seven
15:04yards to go in a five yard illegal contact, get your first down. I can live with that.
15:08It's those third and twenties where a five yard penalty somehow equals 20. I've long hated that,
15:13but it doesn't seem to have enough momentum in the league. Just give me your thoughts there.
15:16Well, I was surprised it even was proposed because usually you feel the proposals coming.
15:22There's something that's happened. It's created a problem and we need to address it. Now the lions
15:27believed it was a problem because they had, I think somewhere in the teams, the low teams
15:31of instances like that, where they, they, they had an automatic first down on a third and long
15:37that would have ended a drive. Here's the concern I had. And I don't know how the conversation went
15:42down, but when Sims and I tried to break this down on PFT lives, uh, when it first came up,
15:48the concern would be this, you get the third and long play and you're more likely now to mug the
15:57receiver because you'll gladly give up the five yards and do third down all over again.
16:02So you're going to have an uptick in the number of penalties and it's going to slow the game down.
16:07There's going to be more flags and it might become so prevalent on third and long
16:12that you get to a point where the officials don't call it like the 2013 legion of boom strategy,
16:19where they, they manhandled receivers constantly daring the officials to call it and knowing they
16:24weren't going to call it all the time. So we'll take it. We'll take the fouls that come because
16:28we're going to do it all the time. That's what it could become. That could be the ultimate
16:32unintended consequence. You've got receivers getting, getting held and illegally contacted
16:38on a widespread basis because the officials don't want to bog the game down by throwing a flag every
16:43time it happens. And that may be how it would play out again. I don't know why they decided not to
16:48do it, but I could see that happen if all of a sudden the automatic first down is taken away
16:53for defensive holding and illegal contact. Last one. Do you think we finished up adjusting the
16:59kickoff? Is this the sweet spot now? The only thing I could still see having to tweak. We've
17:04gone from the 20, my entire childhood did in the 25 for seven years, the 30 for one year. Now we're
17:10at the 35 for a kickoff touchback, but the 40 is still the kick out of bounds, right? Shouldn't
17:15they have a bigger gap between those two? Well, yeah, that's a good point. You're,
17:20you're not giving up much of a difference where you kick it out of bounds versus you
17:24kick it into the end zone and it doesn't get returned. I think it's going to stay put here.
17:28The one thing they need to address is the onside kick, because right now the team that's trailing
17:32by multiple scores doesn't have a viable way to get back into the game. And there was no
17:38conversation, no proposal, no anything about a fourth and long play this year. They did table
17:43the possibility of allowing the team that's trailing to an onside kick at any point during
17:47the game. When the Saint, the Chiefs were driving down 34, nothing against the Eagles late in the
17:54third quarter of the Superbowl. I turned to my colleagues from PFT and said, they may want to
17:58wait and score here because if they score in the third quarter, they can't do an onside kick.
18:02They can only do an onside kick in the fourth quarter. And that's just an arbitrary weird
18:07thing. And so that could go away in May. But I think the broader conversation is there needs
18:12to be a more effective way to give the team that's trailing an opportunity to retain possession.
18:18And the onside kick has been sacrificed for this effort to come up with a different kickoff.
18:23And ultimately where this all came from, look, they claim it's a health and safety issue and
18:30it is, but it's not just concussions. They wanted to eliminate from the game a play that had a very
18:38high potential relative to other plays of a risk of a catastrophic injury and possibly a death,
18:44because you would get guys running unimpeded at each other, opposite directions, maximum forces
18:52when they hit. The human instinct is to dip the helmet at contact. And that's how you get the
18:57Kevin Everett injury that happened in 2007, Eric LeGrand, who was permanently paralyzed. He was
19:02the Rutgers player. They didn't want that to happen again. Someone dying on the field would be,
19:10who knows, who knows what the impact would be. I mean, it almost happened to DeMar Hamlin,
19:14but they wanted to get that kickoff play off the field. And they never say it out loud,
19:18but that's why they wanted to get rid of that. So this new play,
19:21where everything is more confined, you're not going to have that high.