Kosta Hronis Joins the TDN Writers' Room

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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.

00:00:21This is our life's work.

00:00:23Good morning, it is 907 Wednesday, September 7th.

00:00:29So it's 907-97, perfect.

00:00:32This is the TDN Writer's Room presented by Keeneland.

00:00:34My name is Joe Bianca.

00:00:35I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News.

00:00:37Good morning, I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.

00:00:41Shameless plug here, and I don't do this enough.

00:00:43You can catch me and Dave Johnson every Saturday on Sirius XM Radio for the Down the Stretch

00:00:47Show from 10 to 1 Eastern on Channel 85.

00:00:50Hi, and coming off the bench is the utility infielder of sorts.

00:00:54I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports, and pleased to be with you guys.

00:00:59The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.

00:01:02Don't forget, how could you forget?

00:01:03We're only five days away from the Keeneland September sale.

00:01:06It runs September 12th through the 24th.

00:01:08You can check out the catalog with over 4,100 yearlings at theworldyearlingsale.com.

00:01:13All right, so John Green, our good friend who has helped build this show into what it

00:01:19is, has stepped down from the show, unfortunately, and we're going to miss John.

00:01:22I want to thank him for his hard work and his dedication to the show, which honestly

00:01:26would not have become what it is without him.

00:01:27And John and my working relationship has turned into a friendship, and I appreciate him, and

00:01:32that's only going to continue.

00:01:33So shout out to John and thank him for all his work, and I'll talk to you soon, buddy.

00:01:39But we have a ton to talk about on the racetrack, and we're so grateful that Randy Moss is here,

00:01:43our good buddy, who's sat in for John and me and Bill a couple of times.

00:01:47Flightline.

00:01:48Flightline could honestly deserve, he deserves the whole show, I think, because of how impressive

00:01:53he was and how impressive he's been as a racehorse.

00:01:56And I want to kind of defer to Bill and Randy because they've seen a lot more racing than

00:02:00I have.

00:02:01It's a very polite way of calling them old, so they have a lot more opportunity, a lot

00:02:05more ability to put this into context.

00:02:08So I'm going to toss it to them and try to figure out where this ranks on their all-time

00:02:13great list, and then we'll go back to me.

00:02:15Go ahead, Bill.

00:02:16Well, thank you for that reference to how old I am, John.

00:02:18Excuse me, Joe.

00:02:21Because I did see Secretariat run in person, and believe it or not, I know there's a million

00:02:25people that say this, but I was in the stands, the 1973 Belmont, the greatest performance

00:02:30in the history of horse racing.

00:02:32Let's take a look at a couple of different areas of this.

00:02:35First of all, people trying to compare them to Secretariat or horses from other generations.

00:02:40I just don't think you can do that.

00:02:42It's just too different.

00:02:43It's the proverbial apples to oranges.

00:02:46A horse like Secretariat is coming out of an era where horses ran every two, three weeks,

00:02:50ran 20 times a year, something like that.

00:02:53He also ran in the Triple Crown, which, of course, Flightline didn't get a chance to

00:02:57do that.

00:02:58I have no problem comparing them to contemporary horses.

00:03:00You like to talk about, Joe, a lot about Gossapper, and I think right now he's superseded

00:03:06Gossapper.

00:03:07He's a better horse than that, and that's saying an awful lot.

00:03:10But as I wrote in my weekend review this week, the thing that I wanted to compare with Secretariat's

00:03:15Belmont to Flightline's Pacific Classic, and in my long, long life, those are the two

00:03:20most impeccable, dominating, impressive performances that I've ever seen.

00:03:26And there was a lot of similarities between the two of them.

00:03:29I don't think any horse will ever do what Secretariat did that day on the track.

00:03:34That was just one of those things out from another universe.

00:03:37How can a horse actually do this sort of thing?

00:03:39But I thought this was the best performance I have seen since Secretariat's Belmont.

00:03:44In many ways, the races were very similar, the way they developed, the way he just crushed

00:03:48his opponents.

00:03:52People may think it's blasphemy.

00:03:53You know, wait a minute, another horse that had a Secretariat-like performance.

00:03:57Well, if it's true, why not say it?

00:03:59Don't worry about overhyping something.

00:04:01It literally was something like Trevor Denman said in his call.

00:04:05I didn't think I'd ever see anything like this again the rest of my life.

00:04:07I just thought that for a horse to go out and to dominate grade one competition,

00:04:12win by almost 20 lengths, pulled up under the wire, was just something that was beyond

00:04:17the abilities of any horse out there.

00:04:20You know, this is a Babe Ruth type thing.

00:04:22This is a Michael Jordan type thing.

00:04:24This is, well, not maybe once in a lifetime because I lived during Secretariat's era,

00:04:27but maybe a twice in a lifetime thing.

00:04:29You know, it's almost hard to describe.

00:04:33I wasn't at Secretariat's Belmont.

00:04:36I was watching from my living room.

00:04:37Kudos to Bill for actually being there in the grandstand.

00:04:41But I share your opinion, Bill, that this is the single most devastating performance

00:04:47that I've seen on the racetrack, either in person or on TV.

00:04:51Since Secretariat's Belmont Stakes, you know?

00:04:54I mean, so many people now judge the level of a horse's performance by numbers, by speed

00:05:05figures, whether it be buyer speed figures or any other speed figures.

00:05:08And yeah, you can look back.

00:05:11126 for Flightline in the Pacific Classic, OK.

00:05:16Ghost Zapper got a 128 in the Island in 2004, but against a four-horse field on a sloppy

00:05:23track and against a horse that never really was a great presidential affair.

00:05:29There was a nice horse, but was never really a great one-level horse to begin with.

00:05:33Whereas Flightline beats horses that were a couple of grade one winners, a couple of

00:05:38grade two winners, a grade three winner.

00:05:4219 lengths, yes.

00:05:43So Secretariat wins by 31 in the Belmont Stakes, but at a mile and a half.

00:05:48Flightline wins by 19 at a mile and a quarter and was still widening on the field behind

00:05:53him with every strike.

00:05:55Assuming that he could continue that going a mile and a half, and there's no reason to

00:05:58think he wouldn't, what would the margin of victory have been for Flightline?

00:06:04If he had been able to keep going out to a mile and a half.

00:06:09So to some people, it may be heresy, but as good as American Pharoah was, the darling

00:06:18of horse racing in the last 20 years, even his Breeders' Cup Classic, I don't think

00:06:22matches the kind of performance that we saw Flightline give in the Pacific Classic.

00:06:27When Arrowgate met his untimely demise, Bob Baffert said that he believed that Arrowgate's

00:06:33race in the Dubai World Cup, where he was left at the gate and still scored a dominating

00:06:37win, that he would have given Secretariat all he could handle on that day.

00:06:43I don't think that performance even stacks up to what we saw in the Pacific Classic.

00:06:49Yeah, I mean, it was just unbelievable.

00:06:53Now the question is going to transition to what happens next.

00:06:58Will he indeed run in the Breeders' Cup Classic?

00:07:00That's what they say.

00:07:02What happens next year when the stud deal is announced, which you know will have to

00:07:07be just astronomical.

00:07:09But I think the story of Flightline is developing still, but I'm in awe of the race.

00:07:17I know.

00:07:18There's not enough superlatives to really describe what we saw on Saturday.

00:07:22And you can just tell from the buzz, even just on racing Twitter, just the reactions.

00:07:27It was just hours and hours of people reposting the replay.

00:07:31And you cannot blame them because it was just so incredible.

00:07:35And Randy makes a good point about the speed figures and the way we measure greatness now.

00:07:40And there are plenty of tangible ways to measure his greatness, speed figures, pace figures,

00:07:46raw final times, margin of victory.

00:07:48But to me, the thing that sets him apart most is intangible.

00:07:52And it's the fact that every single time he runs, the expectations are through the

00:07:57roof.

00:07:57And he manages to exceed those expectations every single time.

00:08:02That is what's so impressive to me.

00:08:04I'm sure people were expecting him to win by 10, 12, 15 lengths.

00:08:08And he beat that.

00:08:10And it does look and it feels viscerally like Secretariat's Belmont in the way that he kept

00:08:16widening on the turn.

00:08:17And Bill made a good point in his weekend review that maybe this is the distance he

00:08:22wanted all along, this and further.

00:08:24We assume just because that's all he had run so far.

00:08:26He was a six-purl-long, one-turn horse.

00:08:29But now look at him.

00:08:30And who knows if the Breeders' Cup Classic were a mile and a half?

00:08:33He could win it by 30 lengths.

00:08:35He could post that Secretariat-type performance.

00:08:38And you mentioned Go Sapper.

00:08:40Go Sapper is the only comparison for me in my lifetime as a racing fan, talent-wise.

00:08:44But the thing about Go Sapper is he was not this through five starts.

00:08:48He had not accomplished nearly as much as Flightline had.

00:08:51He was not as fast as Flightline has been through five starts.

00:08:55So that kind of brings us to the question of whether or not we're going to see Flightline

00:08:59as much as we saw Go Sapper, which was 11 times.

00:09:02You know, even if Flightline comes back next year, maybe we won't see him total 11 times

00:09:07for his career.

00:09:08But, you know, we're going to have Costa Jaronis on the show a little bit later.

00:09:11And we're going to beg him, Bill.

00:09:13We're going to beg him to bring Flightline back as a five-year-old.

00:09:17Because if there were ever a horse that you, that kind of, I don't want to say obligated,

00:09:22but you had a little bit of, what's the little bit, little obligation, Brandy?

00:09:28You're, you guys are journalists.

00:09:29Like just a little bit of a, just a need to give back to the racing public.

00:09:35This is the horse.

00:09:36Everybody who ever spends a cent on a racehorse is praying to get a horse like this because

00:09:42they love the game.

00:09:43That's why they spend all the money.

00:09:45So to get the horse like this and to only run him six times in his career, to me, would

00:09:50feel like a little bit of a waste and a little, and it would be a little bit unsatisfying.

00:09:55I mean, I'm assuming you guys agree with me, but can you expand on that a little bit at

00:09:59all?

00:10:00Yeah, I mean, Joe, all good points.

00:10:01And we'll know more later on when we talk to Costa Jaronis.

00:10:05Hopefully we'll know more.

00:10:08Brandy, unless you know something I don't know, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't

00:10:11run in the Breeders' Cup.

00:10:12I mean, I can't see pulling the plug on him at this point like they did with Justify after

00:10:17the Belmont.

00:10:18But this is going to be a big issue.

00:10:21And if the Breeders' Cup is his last start, and I still think it will be, then yeah, a

00:10:27career of six races.

00:10:29And as brilliant as they've been as a racing fan, which we all are, I definitely feel cheated

00:10:35that we only got to see this horse.

00:10:36I know it's not 1954.

00:10:38We're not going to see a horse like this run 35 times.

00:10:41But just six, that would really be something that, you know, I think everybody would leave.

00:10:47Not a bad taste in my mouth, because I don't want to I don't want to rain on this parade

00:10:50in any way, shape, or form.

00:10:51But something would be less than satisfying.

00:10:54From a financial standpoint and a bottom line standpoint, it's the right move.

00:10:59Joe, you're more or maybe Randy can jump in this too.

00:11:02What's his stud fee first right off the bat?

00:11:04$150,000, $200,000, something like that.

00:11:06I mean, it's going to be astronomical the amount of money they can make breeding this

00:11:10horse.

00:11:11But yeah, you're right, Joe.

00:11:13You know, that's one thing that horse racing has lost over the years when the major stables

00:11:18were, you know, the wealthy families, the Vanderbilts, the Mellons, the Phipps.

00:11:23And they looked at this not as a business, but they looked at this as a sport.

00:11:27And we've lost that in horse racing.

00:11:29I mean, only the Phipps family is still around among the group that I've mentioned.

00:11:34And, you know, everybody looks at this as a business.

00:11:37But here's the thing.

00:11:38Like you said, everybody waits a lifetime to get a horse like this, and it's only going

00:11:42to happen to a handful of people.

00:11:45So this is what you've always wanted.

00:11:48Why then would you say six starts were done?

00:11:51And then, you know, as much money as you can make breeding the horse, is it really that

00:11:54much fun?

00:11:54Is it that exciting?

00:11:56Is it a thrill?

00:11:56Is it something that you've lived your whole life for and work for?

00:12:00I do detect that, you know, and I just as a matter of fact, when I was writing my weekend

00:12:04review, I said, well, this will be his last start.

00:12:07And I'm glad I look back at some of the notes that came out of Delmar, where John

00:12:09Sadler was saying, you know, hold your horses here.

00:12:12No decisions have been made.

00:12:13And I don't think he would say that unless that was the case, that the ownership group

00:12:18is leaving the door open a crack.

00:12:20And yeah, you know, look, at the end of the day, Heronis, West Point and the 72 other

00:12:25people and partnerships that own them and something, you know, do they owe racing something?

00:12:30Well, yes and no.

00:12:32Do they have to bring them back?

00:12:34No.

00:12:34But just like you said, would somebody say something like you just said?

00:12:38You know what?

00:12:39No matter what happens, we're going to make a zillion dollars off this horse.

00:12:43Let's do something special for the sport and not only bring them back next year, but

00:12:48wow, what's a major campaign this day and age run six times next year, something like

00:12:53that.

00:12:53Let's hope that they do, you know, until we read the press release that he has been

00:12:57retired and going to blank stud farm.

00:13:00Let's hold out hope.

00:13:02Look, I think, you know, obviously the three of us would love to see Flightline come back

00:13:06and run next year.

00:13:07And as would every racing fan in America.

00:13:09I'm not going to say there's a zero percent chance, but I think there is a very low percentage

00:13:14chance that we will see Flightline come back next year.

00:13:17I mean, think of all the colossal stud deals that we've seen in the last decade or two.

00:13:24Now you've got a horse that we're talking about is turning in performances better than

00:13:29any horse that we've seen since Secretariat.

00:13:32And this horse has a pedigree as such that he brought a million dollars as a yearling

00:13:39by Tappet out of Feathered, who was a really good racehorse herself.

00:13:43This horse checks all the boxes.

00:13:46And I think this deal is going to be so massive that, you know, even if Costa Heronis, who

00:13:53I believe is the majority owner, even if he would love to bring this horse back and run

00:13:56next year, I don't think his partners would be all in on that.

00:14:01I know there were some comments made by Sadler and by Heronis that, hey, you may see this

00:14:05horse run next year.

00:14:07To me, as they're negotiating this deal, I think that's mainly a negotiating ploy.

00:14:15Hey, look, we would love to run this horse next year.

00:14:18If you don't want to run this horse next year, then let's see some more money on the table.

00:14:22Right.

00:14:24But look, I don't like the economics of the sport the way they are right now with the

00:14:30tail wagging the dog.

00:14:32But unfortunately, it's reality.

00:14:34It is what it is right now.

00:14:36And this deal is just going to be so massive that I can't see any way they would put him

00:14:40on the track.

00:14:40Hope I'm wrong.

00:14:42Yeah, no, I mean, you're probably not wrong.

00:14:45It's no doubt a losing proposition to bring him back as a five-year-old.

00:14:49Money-wise, nothing he could do on the track next year could make his owners as much money

00:14:54as one stallion season at six figures a pop.

00:14:57And about the Breeders' Cup Classic, no, I don't know anything about that, Bill.

00:15:01I haven't been told anything at all.

00:15:02I'm just being extremely cynical.

00:15:06So this stud deal is announced.

00:15:08Wow, this sport?

00:15:09What, are you kidding me?

00:15:10I know, I know.

00:15:11And it's like I said, it's like the stud deal is announced in the next couple of weeks.

00:15:14And it's a mega, mega, mega stud deal, right?

00:15:17And I think we would probably all agree that if Flightline never runs another race, he's

00:15:21going to win the Eclipse Award as the champion older horse based on what he's done so far

00:15:26this year.

00:15:29He might even be Horse of the Year, right?

00:15:31Who knows?

00:15:33You would get the whole risk-reward thing coming into play.

00:15:38Suddenly, there's a little minor injury and Flightline can't run in the Breeders' Cup

00:15:42Classic.

00:15:43You know, that's extremely cynical, I understand.

00:15:46And I hope to heck we do see him in the Breeders' Cup Classic.

00:15:48I think probably we will, but it wouldn't shock me if we didn't.

00:15:53Yep, I mean, like you said, there's probably a slim chance he comes back next year.

00:15:58But like I said, you spend all this money and all this time and put in all this legwork

00:16:03in the game, work in the sales to get a horse like this that we may not see again for 50

00:16:08years, 100 years, maybe never again, like Trevor Denman said.

00:16:13I get the business realities of it.

00:16:16That it's more money than anybody could realistically ever turn down.

00:16:21But what's it all for if the horse is only going to run a half dozen times?

00:16:24But we'll leave that alone.

00:16:26Like Bill said, I don't want to rain on the parade because it was special.

00:16:30It was the kind of performance that gives you goosebumps and I think reminds you why

00:16:34you're a racing fan because it was just your jaw hit the floor watching him run around

00:16:39that far turn.

00:16:40And he just gets better and better and better.

00:16:43And he's poetry in motion to watch.

00:16:45Go ahead, Randy.

00:16:45And the counterpoint about the classic, it is a six million dollar race and he'll be

00:16:49three to five.

00:16:52How often does that happen?

00:16:53That's a lot of money.

00:16:56The TDF Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.

00:16:58We're finally just a few days away from the start of the 2022 Keeneland September sale.

00:17:03We have a few major updates to share after this weekend.

00:17:05HIP 11, a son of Uncle Mo, it's a half brother to Grade 1 hopeful winner Forte, we'll talk

00:17:10about in a little bit.

00:17:11And he sells with Bluegrass Thoroughbred Services.

00:17:13HIP 493 is the American Pharoah half brother to Grade 1 Jockey Club Gold Cup winner Olympiad.

00:17:18He sells with Gainesway.

00:17:20HIP 297 is the full sister to Grade 2 Priorist winner Wicked Halo, daughter of Gunrunner,

00:17:26also sells with Gainesway.

00:17:28In Chris McGrath's latest installment of the Breeders Spotlight series presented by Keeneland,

00:17:32he spoke with Bobby Flay, shout out to Bobby, friend and fan of the show, on his breeding

00:17:36program, as well as his Keeneland September offerings, which include three Book One offerings

00:17:40and HIP 115, an Uncle Mo cult, that's a half brother to champion Pizza Bianca.

00:17:45HIP 131, an Uncle Mo Philly who's from the family of champion Misty for me, and HIP 191,

00:17:51a Quality Road Philly out of Graded winner Cover Song.

00:17:54You can find the story at the TDN, it's called Flay's Recipe for Turf Success.

00:17:59We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.

00:18:02When the thoroughbred world descends upon Lexington this November,

00:18:06there is one place you need to be.

00:18:08The place where history comes alive with every championship victory.

00:18:15The place where the future is built with the fall of a gap.

00:18:20The place that exists to be the heart of this industry, the center of it all.

00:18:25Home to the November breeding stock sale and 2022 Breeders' Cup, Keeneland.

00:18:32He was just put together like a machine and he had a great mind.

00:18:36Everything about him was what you'd want.

00:18:38Tis the law, pops the cork and the champagne.

00:18:41Tis the law is gonna win the first leg of the Triple Crown.

00:18:45I've never seen him get tired.

00:18:46Respect the law.

00:18:47Tis the law.

00:18:49His structure is just perfect.

00:18:51His bone is perfect.

00:18:53He's left the others behind.

00:18:54He's gonna win the Run Happy Traverse.

00:18:56He's everything you would look for in a horse.

00:18:58The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.

00:19:01Justify got his third TDN Rising Star on Saturday when Champions Dream,

00:19:05very well bet in that race, broke his maiden on debut at Saratoga for Danny Gargan

00:19:10and rose down racing stables.

00:19:11Sire of three graded stakes winners and four stakes winners.

00:19:15Justify is also the sire of 12 winners, which is second best of any freshman sire

00:19:19in North America and fellow freshman sire at Motown.

00:19:22Had a juvenile double on Labor Day.

00:19:24with Mo Trump winning at Finger Lakes and then play the music,

00:19:28breaking her maiden on debut at Kentucky Downs.

00:19:30With these two new winners, Motown now has eight winners from his first crop.

00:19:34Son of Uncle Mo stands at Ashford for $7,500.

00:19:37All right, so it wasn't just flight line over the weekend.

00:19:41We had a lot of other good action, obviously, closing weekend at Saratoga.

00:19:44We had the Jackie Cooke Gold Cup card.

00:19:47Jackie Cooke Gold Cup was won by my boy Olympia at Ole Miss.

00:19:50Although I jumped off of him and on better things, I was against him

00:19:53and he made me look like a fool.

00:19:55I just didn't think he wanted to go a mile and a quarter.

00:19:57Didn't think he was going to bounce back that quickly from the Whitney,

00:20:00but he looked great.

00:20:01Got a 105 buyer, but I just he's one of those horses now that I think in any

00:20:06other year would probably be like cruising to a championship.

00:20:09But in this particular year with flight line and to a lesser extent, life is good.

00:20:13Is he even going to be on the podium for horse of the year?

00:20:16Definitely for older gents.

00:20:17He's had a very impressive campaign, six for seven now, got that elusive grade one

00:20:23when he had only won a grade two before that.

00:20:25And then the other big race at Saratoga was Virginia Joy upsetting Warlight

00:20:30Goddess in the flower bowl.

00:20:31120 guys for six pro longs in that race.

00:20:35It really reminds me of those old Belmont turf marathons.

00:20:39Are there no rabbits anymore?

00:20:41The chat enters these rabbits.

00:20:43I don't get why Warlight Goddess did not have a rabbit in that race, but

00:20:47Virginia Joy managed to just hold her off.

00:20:50Obviously, we had the two year old races.

00:20:52We have Forte winning the grade one hopeful and then in the spin away on Sunday

00:20:58at an upset Phil Serpy.

00:20:59Shout out to Phil Serpy.

00:21:01First grade one win in 29 years.

00:21:04Leave no trace wins the spin away at 14 to one.

00:21:07What else stood out to you?

00:21:08What else did you see in the race?

00:21:09Leave no trace wins the spin away at 14 to one.

00:21:12What else stood out from the weekend to you guys?

00:21:15Well, you know, one more point.

00:21:17Olympiad wins the Jockey Club Gold Cup, one of the most prestigious races in the

00:21:21country, a grade one.

00:21:22And nobody even knew the race existed hardly because what?

00:21:26Oh, there was another race that happened that day besides flight line.

00:21:29Um, you know, I give Matt credit, uh, you know, like so many other trainers after

00:21:33he ran a clunker in the Whitney will train up to the Breeders Cup and see you

00:21:37then.

00:21:37But the importance for this force and I would be almost certain this went into their

00:21:42thinking was he needed a grade one win for his stallion career because isn't that all

00:21:46that really matters in this day and age?

00:21:48And, you know, as good a horse as he is, it's unlikely that he's going to win the

00:21:51Breeders Cup Classic against flight line, the greatest horse, of course, in

00:21:54secretariat.

00:21:55So, you know, Matt, uh, get a one went a little bit outside the box or conventional

00:22:00thinking to bring him back in the Jockey Club and he was back.

00:22:03I don't know what happened to him in the Whitney.

00:22:05John, I'm sorry.

00:22:06You were his biggest fan.

00:22:07You don't bandwagon.

00:22:08Oh, my goodness.

00:22:09Well, yeah, I wanted to add.

00:22:11I wanted some some merch, but we had merch.

00:22:14They never said it to me.

00:22:15So, yeah, so, you know, good for them.

00:22:17And, you know, but again, your point being in other years, you know, he would might

00:22:23even be number one for the horse of the year race with all he's accomplished this

00:22:26year, even with only one grade one.

00:22:27But, you know, some of those races, particularly Stephen Foster, were really,

00:22:31really top notch races.

00:22:32He can run in a mile and a quarter.

00:22:35So, you know, what is the margin of defeat to him in Breeders' Cup Classic?

00:22:39Will he come within 10 lengths of flight line?

00:22:42And, you know, another story and I'll move on to Randy's.

00:22:45I don't have too much else to say about the weekend, but another story coming out of

00:22:48this now, Matt has said, yes, I'm going in the Breeders' Cup Classic.

00:22:51But even though it is a six million dollar race, well, some people duck flight line,

00:22:54for instance, have we waiting to see what the life is good connections do when, you

00:22:58know, you're going to be in a virtually impossible situation in the Breeders' Cup

00:23:01Classic and you would be four to five, three to five in the Breeders' Cup dirt mile if

00:23:07you tend to go if you decide to go in that direction.

00:23:09So, yeah, thanks for reminding me there was another race last week and I almost forgot.

00:23:14Well, we obviously on NBC, we did the Jockey Club Gold Cup and the Flower Bowl.

00:23:19And while we don't actively root for any horses, obviously, it was nice, I thought,

00:23:25to see Olympiad win and see the ownership and the trainer rewarded for actually running

00:23:31their horse and not sitting on them and, you know, training, as Bill said, up to the

00:23:36Breeders' Cup Classic.

00:23:37I think I know what happened to him in the Whitney.

00:23:39I mean, in his win streak, his five race win streak leading up to the Whitney,

00:23:45every race looked identical, right?

00:23:47He used his tactical speed to get into a perfect spot going into the first turn,

00:23:51relax nicely into second.

00:23:53But the horses that he was tracking were Silver Prospector, Wayburn, horses that were not

00:24:00grade one horses and not even possibly grade two horses at a mile and an eighth.

00:24:06And as a case, Saturday, a mile and a quarter.

00:24:09And suddenly in the Whitney, he's tracking Life is Good.

00:24:13And he goes to make his little spurt that he always makes at about the half mile pole

00:24:18that gets him right up to the leader and gets him right into the race and engaged.

00:24:22And he tries to make that little spurt and he can't even make up an inch, right?

00:24:27And Alvarado hits him with a whip underhanded and it doesn't do any good.

00:24:30And at that point, I think the horse just said, the heck with this, right?

00:24:34I'm over my head.

00:24:37Saturday, he's chasing tacks.

00:24:39So he's right back with his friends again and is able to run the same kind of race he

00:24:45did before.

00:24:45And I thought it was an outstanding effort.

00:24:48I don't think, though, that it puts him in the top two or three choices when you look

00:24:53to the Breeders' Cup Classic.

00:24:55As far as the Flower Bowl is concerned, I don't think Warlight Goddess lost anything

00:24:59in defeat, given the way the race was run, given the traffic that she had, given the

00:25:05pace, the way it was.

00:25:07You know, 119 had changed, almost 120.

00:25:10Watching the race from the NBC set, just me and my broadcast colleague and my great friend

00:25:17Jerry Bailey.

00:25:18So we're watching the race live and the field turns to come into the stretch for the first

00:25:23time.

00:25:23And Joelle Rosario on Warlight Goddess is down on the inside.

00:25:28And Jerry's talking to the TV set.

00:25:30And he's saying, all right, ease her out, ease her out, ease her out.

00:25:33And he goes the inside route up into the traffic.

00:25:36And Jerry's like, no, no, no, don't do that.

00:25:39Don't do that.

00:25:41Don't fall for that bait.

00:25:43But sure enough, that's exactly what happened.

00:25:45And the horse was buried in traffic until really it was too late.

00:25:51And I thought she gave a nice closing spurt to get what she got.

00:25:54I think she is the best turf horse in America, male or female.

00:26:01Whether that means she's good enough to beat the Europeans in the Breeders' Cup turf, we'll

00:26:04see who they bring over.

00:26:06But again, I don't think she lost anything in defeat.

00:26:09And one more note.

00:26:12You mentioned in your breeding segment, the Danny Gargan first-time starter by Justified

00:26:17that won three maiden special weight races on Saturday alone, which is one of the beauties

00:26:22of Saratoga.

00:26:23You see these fantastic two-year-olds.

00:26:25Jerry and I happened to run into Danny Gargan, the first trainer we saw at the Oklahoma side

00:26:31at Saratoga on Friday morning.

00:26:33And he was watching his horse's train.

00:26:34And we chatted with him for a little bit.

00:26:36And he said, you know, he said, I am really looking forward to these maiden special weight

00:26:42races on Saturday.

00:26:43I never win with first-time starter two-year-olds, almost never.

00:26:48But he said, I am really looking forward to these races on Saturday.

00:26:52And after his horse ran and won, I think we know why.

00:26:56Well, yeah, there was a Brad Cox horse who looked really good, too.

00:26:59Instant Coffee also won it 14 to 1.

00:27:01That horse got a big figure, I think, a relatively big figure.

00:27:04It got an 85, I believe.

00:27:07Yeah, I mean, watching that Warlight Goddess race as someone who singled her and everything,

00:27:11I had a sinking feeling on the far turn that he was going to get stuck in traffic.

00:27:15And when I saw the three-quarter split, I just laughed.

00:27:18I just burst out laughing seeing 119 and change.

00:27:22It reminded me, I'm sure you guys remember this, 2004, the Lone Star Breeders Cup, which

00:27:27I always remember because it was Ghost Tapper.

00:27:30Ouija board was the big horse that won the Philly and Merritt Turf.

00:27:33But the course was like a bog.

00:27:35And they went like 121 for six furlongs.

00:27:39That's what it reminded me of.

00:27:41But yeah, I mean, you're right that she lost nothing in defeat.

00:27:44And that's a really big closing kick she has.

00:27:47And it just wasn't enough this time.

00:27:50But yeah, I agree.

00:27:52It's hard for me to think of a horse that I would trust more than her, male or female,

00:27:56in the turf division in America.

00:27:58And she ran great last year in the Breeders Cup.

00:28:00I thought she was an underlay last year, frankly, as the favorite in the Breeders Cup.

00:28:03But I think she ran great.

00:28:05She was a close third.

00:28:07I mentioned the two-year-old races.

00:28:08Let's come back to Flyline for a second.

00:28:10So I have one more question I wanted to ask you guys.

00:28:13You got a 126 buyer, ran 159-1.

00:28:16He was wrapped up on at the 16th pole.

00:28:19There's debate sometimes about this, about how much faster horses can run when they're

00:28:24wrapped up like that.

00:28:25And it's a visual thing.

00:28:26It's hard to quantify.

00:28:28What do you guys think?

00:28:29Do you think he could have run significantly faster if Flavien had really pushed him out

00:28:33to the wire?

00:28:33Or do you think he was already going basically as fast as he could go?

00:28:37Well, I'm going to wonder if Randy's ever asked Jerry Bailey that, because he would

00:28:41be the perfect person to answer.

00:28:42I don't know, Joe.

00:28:43I really don't.

00:28:45But isn't it logical that, yes, he could have?

00:28:49I mean, if you're a human runner and you're in a mile race and you're so far out in front

00:28:54than the last 200 yards, you sort of jog to the wire, isn't that going to affect your

00:29:01time and the margin of victory?

00:29:04Could he have won by 25, 26 lengths?

00:29:07I don't really know.

00:29:08Again, I'd like to hear what Flavien Pratt has to say about that.

00:29:10That is one of the things that I wrote, too.

00:29:12I hope in the Breeders' Cup, they just let him roll.

00:29:15Let him just, you know, let him win by 30.

00:29:17You know, make the goal to 31 lengths, the magic number.

00:29:21I mean, I don't think he's going to win the Breeders' Cup by 31 lengths.

00:29:24But you bring up a very interesting point.

00:29:26And not being somebody who's ever sat on a horse in my entire life, I don't have the

00:29:29faintest idea.

00:29:30And I want to go, before we get to Randy, I want to go off on a tangent here a little

00:29:35bit.

00:29:36But speaking of, we're talking about Danny Gargan and Secretariat and all that.

00:29:40I have a trivia question.

00:29:41See if anybody can get this.

00:29:42In the 1973 Belmont Stakes, every single jockey in the race but one is a member of the Hall

00:29:49of Fame.

00:29:49Can you name the one rider in that race who is not in the Hall of Fame?

00:29:54Wow.

00:29:56I don't know if I can name more than one rider in the race, period.

00:29:59So I'll leave that to Randy.

00:30:00You got the usual suspects, Cordero, Velasquez.

00:30:02The answer to that question is Danny Gargan.

00:30:06This Danny Gargan's father.

00:30:08How about that?

00:30:09Wow.

00:30:09Some long shot that ran last or something like that.

00:30:12Unless Sham was last.

00:30:13I don't remember.

00:30:14That is, you know, in Saratoga, maybe you can win a free round of drinks with that question.

00:30:20Well, back to Joe's question.

00:30:23I've sat on three thoroughbreds in my life and they didn't end well each time.

00:30:27But I have brought up that topic to Jerry Bailey.

00:30:33And we do have the same opinion on it.

00:30:36And his opinion and mine is this.

00:30:39When you have a horse as good as Flightline, what makes that horse so good is that they're

00:30:44intensely competitive and they want to run fast.

00:30:48They don't need the whip to run fast.

00:30:51They don't necessarily need to be pushed, pushed, pushed to try their best and to run

00:30:56their fastest.

00:30:57If visually, oftentimes when the jockey relaxes in the irons, it makes it look as if the horse

00:31:04could have run a lot faster.

00:31:06But my opinion and Jerry's is that unless the horse is actually physically restrained

00:31:12as the horses are coming to the wire.

00:31:15Then maybe the horse can run a little faster, but usually it's negligible.

00:31:22Yeah, no, I mean, I agree.

00:31:23Yeah, it's such a good point that people watch the jockey in those cases more than the horse.

00:31:30There are cases like that.

00:31:31I think of Jackie's Warrior in the Vanderbilt.

00:31:34He seemed like he was really being pulled up on in the last eighth of a mile.

00:31:38But yeah, I think it's negligible.

00:31:40I think maybe he could have run one or two points faster.

00:31:42But people saying like, oh, he could have run 158 or flabby and let him run.

00:31:46Do you know how big of a difference that is?

00:31:49158 to 159 and one, that's like 10 lengths almost down the stretch.

00:31:54So yeah, I agree.

00:31:55I don't think he could have done that.

00:31:56But it's an interesting conversation.

00:31:58And I agree with Bill and his point in the Breeze Cup Classic.

00:32:01If it is indeed his last race and he's opening up on the turn like he did in the Pacific

00:32:06Classic, send him.

00:32:08Just send like as an OBS March Breeze and let him do what he can do.

00:32:13I interviewed Eddie Maple one time when I was in the newspaper business for a column

00:32:18on Secretariat's last race.

00:32:20I think it's a Canadian international on the turf at Woodbine.

00:32:23And we've all seen the video.

00:32:24Maybe Bill was there watching it.

00:32:25I don't know.

00:32:26But we've all seen the video, the fog, you know, and how surreal it was.

00:32:31And Eddie told me, he said he knew it was going to be Secretariat's last race.

00:32:35And he was in against some really good turf horses.

00:32:39And he said he asked him a little bit going into the final turn and the horse gave him

00:32:43this big response.

00:32:44And then he kind of eased up on him a little bit.

00:32:47And he told me as they were coming to the quarter pole, he said, you know, this is his

00:32:51last race.

00:32:51I'm just going to I'm just going to see.

00:32:53And so he kind of nudged him a little bit.

00:32:56And he got this gigantic response from Secretariat at the quarter pole.

00:33:00And then he said, oh, OK.

00:33:02All right.

00:33:02He's got he's got more any time I want.

00:33:05Right.

00:33:05Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:06The flight line seems like that horse, too.

00:33:09The GDN Writers Room is brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.

00:33:13The PHBA is looking forward to a big day of racing at Parks on Saturday, September 24th.

00:33:18It'll feature the next two legs of their PA Sired PA Bred Steak Series.

00:33:22The $200,000 Prince Lucky Steaks is for juveniles going six and a half furlongs.

00:33:26And the $200,000 Imply Steaks is for the juvenile fillies going six and a half furlongs.

00:33:31Also at Parks that day, they'll have the $200,000 Alphabet Soup Handicap going a mile and a

00:33:36sixteenth on the turf and the $200,000 Plum Pretty Steaks for fillies and mares going

00:33:41long on the dirt.

00:33:41I do believe that's Pennsylvania Derby Day as well.

00:33:44So there's a big race for the big open race that day that we're all looking forward to.

00:33:48So we'll be right back.

00:33:49This message from the PHBA.

00:33:52Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program, the best in North America.

00:33:57But we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.

00:34:00The PA Horse Breeders Association is funding cutting edge research at PenVet to detect

00:34:05gene doping in thoroughbreds.

00:34:06And we endorsed the SAFE Act to help protect the most vulnerable horses.

00:34:11Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs set up by our horseman's groups.

00:34:16Just a few of the reasons why you should join us in Pennsylvania, the premier place to breed

00:34:21and race.

00:34:41The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.

00:34:55This week's XBTV Workout of the Week is Vegas Magic, who worked five furlongs in one minute

00:35:00and four at Del Mar on Saturday, which you can see on your screen right now.

00:35:04The two-year-old is trained by Doug O'Neill.

00:35:06She's undefeated in her first three starts, most recently in the grade two Sorrento Steaks.

00:35:11She's expected to make her next start this weekend in the grade one Del Mar Debutant,

00:35:15which we're going to talk about a little bit.

00:35:17You want to see those two-year-old works?

00:35:19I'm sure there's a bunch of two-year-olds still yet to debut this year at Belmont and

00:35:22at Santa Anita.

00:35:23Just type in the horse's name in the search bar.

00:35:26XBTV has got over thousands of works, all the resources you need as a handicapper, as

00:35:32a scouter of horse flesh.

00:35:33Go check it out.

00:35:35The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group, an accounting, tax, consulting,

00:35:39and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.

00:35:42With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you taxes.

00:35:46Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.

00:35:51We're so thrilled to bring on this week the owner of a little horse named Flightline you

00:35:55might have heard of, Costa Jaronis.

00:35:57Thanks for coming on.

00:35:58Oh, I have to smile when you say Flightline.

00:36:00That just makes an automatic smile.

00:36:05I'm smiling.

00:36:05I don't even own the horse.

00:36:07It was impossible not to feel, not to get chills just watching that race on Saturday,

00:36:12but I wonder what it felt like for someone who owns the horse.

00:36:15What was going through your mind, body, and soul on Saturday when you watched him come

00:36:19down that stretch?

00:36:20You know, usually we're racing against the one to five and I'm trying to beat him.

00:36:24So like with Beholder and with Arrogate.

00:36:27So we were on the other side this time with the target on our back.

00:36:30So watching him in the mornings every morning on Saturday, I felt pretty comfortable going

00:36:37into the race that if he could do his thing, we'd see some really good results.

00:36:43I don't think anybody expects 20 lengths, but yeah, we felt really good walking into

00:36:48the race and we really like our horse.

00:36:51Costa, thanks for joining us.

00:36:53So many great things to talk about.

00:36:55And one of the stories coming into the race was that, you know, if there was one little

00:36:59doubt about Flightline, it was the fact that he had never been two turns and never been

00:37:03beyond a mile.

00:37:04I think now considering the way he ran and how well he did, can we make a case now that

00:37:08this is what he wanted all along, a mile and a quarter?

00:37:11And that maybe he was actually at, believe it or not, a disadvantage in those shorter

00:37:14races.

00:37:15Yeah, I'm going to say he wasn't ready for this at that point.

00:37:18I mean, if you look at his workouts, if you look at the, just the Juan Leyva who rides

00:37:23him every day and what he had to do just to keep him in check, you know, if you work,

00:37:28if you look at a workout video from a year ago versus like the last one at Del Mar, there's

00:37:33a huge difference.

00:37:35And I think John Sadler has done right by him by instead of racing up to this mile and

00:37:40a quarter, he wanted to train him up to a mile and a quarter because he needed to learn

00:37:44how to rate, how to relax and how to run up a mile and a quarter.

00:37:49And that's, that's what the focus was.

00:37:52And that was the plan all along.

00:37:54So after the Met Mile, I think the whole thing was what, how are we going to get him

00:37:58to really relax and be able to do the mile and a quarter?

00:38:01And I'll give John Sadler all the credit in the world for his, how he had this plan laid

00:38:07out and his assistant trainer Juan Leyva, who's on flight lines back, their plan to

00:38:13make him learn to rate, learn to relax and be able to go that distance that I got.

00:38:18They give them all the credit for teaching him to do that.

00:38:21Well, Kosta, when you had Accelerate, won the Breeders' Cup Classic, you probably thought

00:38:25that was the horse of a lifetime.

00:38:27And now, lo and behold, look at what you have now.

00:38:30Take us back to the very beginning, right?

00:38:33To the Saratoga sale when you're, you have four other ownership partners in this horse.

00:38:37How did all that transpire?

00:38:40So that was all David Ingordo and Bill Farish.

00:38:43My wife, Stephanie, was back there for a Toba meeting.

00:38:45So she was at the sale also, her first sale.

00:38:48So they were all talking to back, and I was just getting phone calls to me and John Sadler.

00:38:52Do you know, we have this horse and you want to get in?

00:38:55And, you know, my focus is, you know, it's got to come to the West Coast.

00:38:59It's got to come to Sadler so we can, you know, enjoy him and to be part of it.

00:39:03So we were very blessed that Jane Lyons, you know, I'm sure she makes the big decisions

00:39:12here to who's going to be part of her horse.

00:39:14And so we're very blessed and honored that Bill, David, and them, they all got together

00:39:19and we were included in the package.

00:39:22So let's spin it forward now.

00:39:23Obviously, the next goal is the Breeders' Cup Classic.

00:39:26And I understand you guys want to take it one race at a time.

00:39:28But there were some comments Saturday after the race that suggested it's not out of the

00:39:32realm of possibility that he would come back as a five-year-old.

00:39:35Obviously, you're not making those decisions right now.

00:39:37But what goes into that deliberation?

00:39:39And if you had to put a percentage on it, what would you think the percentage would

00:39:43be?

00:39:43What would you think the percentage is that he comes back and races again?

00:39:46Okay, so just like Stellar Wind, which we probably left on the track an extra year,

00:39:51just like Accelerate, which it worked out great to leave him out because we had some

00:39:55multiple offers for them to both get retired and start their second career.

00:40:01It's kind of always been the philosophy to, you know, they were born to be a racehorse.

00:40:06So let's let them do what they want to do as long as they want to do it.

00:40:10So I guess I can't really give you a percentage.

00:40:13You'd have to ask Flightline.

00:40:14But I really believe as long as he's healthy and happy with what he's doing, and he still

00:40:21wants to go to the racetrack every day and be part of this, and he still wants to, you

00:40:25know, run the way he runs and be who he is.

00:40:29I think there's a great possibility that we'll see him next year as a five-year-old.

00:40:34Wow, that's the most exciting thing I've heard in a long time, Kosta.

00:40:37And thanks so much for even giving it a thought, because in this day and age, people don't

00:40:43do that.

00:40:44Now, with so many different owners involved, and I don't know who owns what percentage

00:40:49of etc.

00:40:51How will this decision be made?

00:40:53Does everybody have a vote?

00:40:55Do people with more, a higher percentage of the horse have a greater vote than people

00:41:00with a lower percentage?

00:41:02Take us through what will transpire between now and the time that decision is made.

00:41:06As far as me personally, I think I'm going to defer to Bill Farish and Jane Lyons, because

00:41:12they both are absolute experts at horse racing.

00:41:15I still consider myself kind of new.

00:41:17I've only been in for 10 years, 11 years now.

00:41:20So as far as that second career, it's not something we're heavily involved in.

00:41:26So as far as the racetrack, I'm going to defer to John Sadler, and he's the man, and he's

00:41:31going to make the decisions.

00:41:32As far as that other career, I guess I'm going to defer to Bill Farish and Jane Lyon

00:41:37and let them call the shots, and I'm just going to follow along.

00:41:40I'm going to be a good partner.

00:41:42So Terry Finley at West Point Thoroughbreds, who kind of put the deal together at Saratoga,

00:41:48from what I understand, has been very closed-lipped about who owns what percentage, other than

00:41:55to say that Jane Lyons stayed in for 25%, the breeder of the horse.

00:42:00So obviously the other owners, West Point, Anthony Manganaro of Sienna Farm, Bill Farish

00:42:07of Woodford Racing, it's been said that you guys all get along fabulously, that it's a

00:42:15great group of guys and women from a personality standpoint.

00:42:21How is that going to play, you think, in the decision of whether or not to keep this horse

00:42:26on the track for another year?

00:42:28I think everybody in the group is a professional horseman, and I think we're just going to

00:42:32do what's right by the horse.

00:42:34I think we have to defer to Flightline and John Sadler's expertise, and he's with him

00:42:39every day.

00:42:40He's going to know what's best for the horse, along with Flightline's going to give indications.

00:42:44So we'll just like Joe had said earlier, we're going to the Breeders' Cup, and then let's

00:42:51come out of the race and see how we do and just go to the next step.

00:42:54So I just think we get along really well.

00:42:58I'm a real respectful person, as you know.

00:43:01Like I said, I'm going to defer to the experts that really know this business best and what's

00:43:05best for him.

00:43:06But I race horses.

00:43:09That's what I like to do.

00:43:11That's horrendous racing.

00:43:12We're not in that after career very heavily.

00:43:18I mean, absolutely.

00:43:20It's shocking to hear that you've only been in the game for 10 or 11 years because you've

00:43:23had so much success and you've won owner's titles at Del Mar plenty of times.

00:43:28What is the operation like for you and your brother?

00:43:31How hands-on are you in terms of managing the horses, in terms of watching workouts?

00:43:36Are you at the track all the time?

00:43:37What's it like for you guys?

00:43:39I guess we manage the horse division the same way we manage the ranch here.

00:43:43I mean, we've got 2,400 people picking grapes today.

00:43:45So it's not something we can do by ourselves.

00:43:50So we manage managers.

00:43:52So yeah, John Sadler calls the shots.

00:43:55He's in charge.

00:43:56We talk a lot.

00:43:58I see him a couple times a week, on the weekends especially.

00:44:03And if there's anything going on, John's on the phone and we're talking.

00:44:06And we're always part of the equation and we're always involved.

00:44:09But the final say comes down.

00:44:12It's all about John Sadler and what's best for the horse.

00:44:16Kose, you said that if you would come back next year, that would be something that would

00:44:20be good for you because you love to watch these horses race and you're not really into

00:44:25it as a breeder.

00:44:26But having said that, from a strictly bottom-line perspective, it's no matter which races he

00:44:31were to win, if he is to run next year, would not make as much money as he would as a stallion.

00:44:37Should owners, and maybe it's tough to speak for the entire sport, but nonetheless, I'll

00:44:41pose this question to you.

00:44:43Should owners have an obligation or feel a sense of obligation to do what's right for

00:44:47the sport and nothing under the let's do what's right for the sport banner could be

00:44:52more relevant than bringing a superstar back next year, especially a superstar that has

00:44:58such a limited career.

00:44:59Do you feel an owner should think about what's good for the game?

00:45:03I guess you have to make your own individual decision and decide what's best for your barn

00:45:08and listen to the professionals.

00:45:11And I don't know.

00:45:12I guess everybody's a little different how they have to handle things and I'm always

00:45:16respectful to that.

00:45:17Whatever their situation is, and we don't know the inner workings of that particular

00:45:24horse the way the trainer is going to know and the owner.

00:45:28So, I guess I'm always going to defer to let them.

00:45:32Everybody's got to decide and do their own thing.

00:45:34So, yeah, I'm sure everyone wants to do what's best by the sport at all times.

00:45:40We want to build our sport when you have superstars like that.

00:45:43It is an odd situation, though.

00:45:45It is the one sport.

00:45:46It's the only sport I can think of where the athlete is worth more after their career than

00:45:53before, than during their career.

00:45:55It is a little odd that that's the way it goes.

00:45:58But that's just the nature of our business.

00:46:02And so, sometimes it's just the situation calls for it to happen.

00:46:05It's got to happen.

00:46:07So, Kose, I know you've been a student of the game for a long time.

00:46:11Bill and I have been around for quite a while, too.

00:46:13And we just said a little earlier that we thought the Pacific Classic was the single

00:46:17most dominant performance that we've seen in the sport since Secretariat won the Belmont

00:46:23Stakes.

00:46:24I mean, you have to be pinching yourself to be a part of a performance like that.

00:46:29It was really breathtaking.

00:46:31Even all the grandstands at Del Mar, usually if they're battling down to the wire, you

00:46:37hear the fans cheering and yelling to cheer their horse to the finish line.

00:46:42And when Fabian looked back and just kind of put it in cruise control, everyone just

00:46:50kind of stood up and clapped just with respect and shock, just what they had just witnessed.

00:46:57And a lot of people told me that a lot of people that have been in the horse racing

00:47:02industry for a long time were all commenting to me that we'll never see another race like

00:47:08that in our lifetime again.

00:47:10That was the best they've ever personally been at.

00:47:14And that's just wow.

00:47:15That's a real honor to be part of.

00:47:17And we feel very blessed that we can be part of this great horse.

00:47:23Yeah, I mean, the buzz after the race was unbelievable.

00:47:26But I wanted to go back to when Flightline was first starting to train.

00:47:29I'm always curious about this with horses that are this good.

00:47:32I mean, there's very few horses that are this good, but horses that are really good.

00:47:36How early did he show it?

00:47:37Was he just blowing away his workmates from the beginning?

00:47:40Did it take a little time to ramp up to race shape?

00:47:43Like, when did you guys feel like you had an inkling that you had a superstar potentially?

00:47:47I remember seeing one of his early workouts before he even raced.

00:47:51And I was standing next to John and Flightline was working out.

00:47:54And John turned to me and said, this is the best racehorse I've ever had in my barn.

00:48:01And in the last 35, 40 years, I've never had this kind of horse.

00:48:07And he's had some really nice horses.

00:48:09So that kind of took my breath away a little bit, knowing John.

00:48:14And then John turned back again.

00:48:16He said, this is the best horse I've ever seen, period, any barn anywhere, just the way he travels.

00:48:25John knew really early.

00:48:27I'm still a rookie, and I can't see things the way he sees things.

00:48:31But yeah, John knew he had a really special horse the first time he saw him go around the racetrack.

00:48:38So once he shared that with me, and then I guess I knew.

00:48:43Costa, getting back to his campaign, only the five races, the Breeders' Cup will be the sixth.

00:48:47And a lot of it was due to bad luck, the whole fence incident.

00:48:50Who knows?

00:48:50Might have cost you winning the Triple Crown.

00:48:52I mean, that's certainly not inconceivable at this point.

00:48:56But how much of that was due to just this is the way modern horses are campaigned?

00:49:02How much of it was due to, like I said, bad luck?

00:49:04And how much was it due?

00:49:06Joe and I and several other people have used the term,

00:49:08maybe sometimes horses are too fast for their own good.

00:49:10They run so fast and so hard that they really do need a lot of time between races.

00:49:15You know, kind of take us through the decisions to run as sparingly as you have.

00:49:20Yeah, again, I think that's kind of been flight line's call because of his athletic ability.

00:49:26And he is so fast that the spacing is important.

00:49:30And again, John's done a great job with him in between races, teaching him.

00:49:36Him and Juan Leiva just constantly teaching him, you know, how to become a racehorse and how to

00:49:43go from six furlongs to a mile and a quarter.

00:49:46I got to give them all the credit.

00:49:47The plan was laid out quite a while ago, and it's come to fruition to see.

00:49:53Again, you've got a great trainer, though.

00:49:56I've said this a few times, as blessed as we are to have flight line,

00:50:01I think flight line's really blessed to have John Sadler.

00:50:04He took his time, he didn't rush him, and he taught him how to be a racehorse.

00:50:09So I think we're kind of both blessed on that front.

00:50:13But yeah, it's just one of those things.

00:50:16And we'd love to run him more.

00:50:17We'd love to run him all the time.

00:50:20But again, back to the philosophy, we're always going to do what's best by the horse.

00:50:25We're going to follow John Sadler's lead.

00:50:27And so this is where we're at today.

00:50:29And the plan has worked out A plus.

00:50:32I mean, we couldn't have done any, it couldn't have been planned out any better.

00:50:36So this is going to be a real softball question compared to Bill's.

00:50:39But you mentioned that your wife, Stephanie, was at the Saratoga sale

00:50:44when this horse was purchased.

00:50:45What's it like to be on this ride and be able to share it with your wife?

00:50:51Oh, I mean, I'm really, really lucky.

00:50:54I don't know about other husbands that are in the horse racing business.

00:50:57But to have my wife, you know, jump on board, and she's just become, you know,

00:51:02she just started loving it more and more and more.

00:51:05And then she started joining some of the associations.

00:51:08She's with TOBA, she's with the TOC, she's with the Gregson on the backside,

00:51:13the Fashionable Fillies, and all these other organizations.

00:51:18Because she wants to help, you know, full scale from on the backside with the workers

00:51:24and the students that are getting scholarships and all the donations.

00:51:29And so she's a hard worker.

00:51:31So I'm at the racetrack looking at races and horses and winning.

00:51:35And she's more full spectrum looking at the racetrack and the industry

00:51:40and everything's going on elsewhere.

00:51:43Yeah, I'm really lucky that she loves the horses and the track and the people as much as I do.

00:51:50I'm pretty lucky on that one.

00:51:52Yeah.

00:51:52So yeah, when I want to go buy another horse, that's no problem.

00:51:57That kind of is similar to my next question.

00:52:00When athletes win championships or whatever, you ask them a question like,

00:52:03what is this rank?

00:52:04And they'll say, next to my kids being born, next to getting married,

00:52:07this is like the greatest day of my life.

00:52:09Where does Saturday rank in your life?

00:52:13It's horse racing.

00:52:15And we understand that.

00:52:16And yeah, that was our...

00:52:18I still remember when the Breeders' Cup with Accelerate, that was...

00:52:22I mean, that to me, winning the Breeders' Cup Classic

00:52:26is like winning the Super Bowl within the World Series.

00:52:30I mean, because you have all these great races with all these great horses that day.

00:52:35And then there's that pinnacle race to me,

00:52:37the mile and a quarter on the dirt against the best in the world.

00:52:41And of course, I'm a little slighted because that was John's first Breeders' Cup.

00:52:45And so to be part of that with him and being with him from day one,

00:52:51and he's our only trainer and we've become good friends.

00:52:54And to be part of that, the Jaronis family has been very blessed.

00:52:59I know Brother Pete, he's always texting John if he's not at the racetrack,

00:53:03and they're always talking and congratulating.

00:53:05And after Flightline's race the other day,

00:53:10Stephanie went right by me and hugged John.

00:53:12I mean, I got missed.

00:53:15So yeah, it was...

00:53:17I mean, that was a great, great moment in horse racing.

00:53:21And like Randy had said earlier, when I had Accelerate,

00:53:24they said, this is the greatest horse.

00:53:26I've actually heard that a few times with Lady of Shamrock.

00:53:29I heard it with Stellar Wind.

00:53:32You got a great horse, enjoy it because these don't come along very often.

00:53:35And then Accelerate and then now Flightline.

00:53:38So we've been really blessed and really fortunate.

00:53:43And we've, at the same time, put together a good team.

00:53:46And I think we've had good philosophy and moving forward.

00:53:51And we've been trying to make this hobby,

00:53:53which turned into a business, a successful venture for us.

00:53:57Kosta, I want to go back to the Secretariat Flightline theme.

00:54:00Where were you on the first Saturday in June in 1973?

00:54:04And you said you've only been involved in horse racing for about a dozen years.

00:54:07Were you at that time?

00:54:08And please tell me that you weren't born.

00:54:11I don't want to make you older than you are.

00:54:1473, I was a sophomore in high school.

00:54:16Okay, you were a sophomore in high school.

00:54:18I was probably playing sports or chasing girls.

00:54:22Were you a racing fan back then?

00:54:24And how aware of Secretariat were you back then?

00:54:27And then, of course, as the years went on, you became more racing.

00:54:30And I can't imagine anyone ever thought, I'll have the next Secretariat.

00:54:33That's just something nobody can ever even imagine.

00:54:35Yeah, for sure.

00:54:36We become race fans at a really young age.

00:54:38Our mom was born and raised in Pasadena.

00:54:41So we'd go down and see the grandparents.

00:54:43And our family outing was at Santa Anita Racetrack.

00:54:46So just kind of fell in love with it from that point as a youngster.

00:54:51And then when I was 16, I could drive.

00:54:53So I would drive to Santa Anita.

00:54:55I wasn't old enough to bet, but I'd go and watch the races.

00:54:57So yeah, me and Brother Pete were fans at the beginning.

00:55:01And we really enjoyed going to the racetrack.

00:55:03And yeah, the Secretariat thing.

00:55:05And we watched it on TV.

00:55:06And you don't really appreciate it because we weren't really involved in the sport like

00:55:11we are now.

00:55:12So I don't know if we even knew that that was that big a deal at the time until we read

00:55:17about it the next day in the paper about it.

00:55:19So again, no internet, no nothing back then.

00:55:22So you had to wait until the LA Times came the next day to read about it.

00:55:25So yeah, I don't think we had a great appreciation for it at the time when we watched it.

00:55:29Just where's everybody at on the TV screen?

00:55:32So it seemed like, wow, this guy's really good.

00:55:35So I don't have any notes in front of me, Kosei.

00:55:37And I may be wrong about this.

00:55:39If I am, I'm sure they'll edit this out and it'll never see the light of day.

00:55:43Was it an usher, if I'm not mistaken, at Santa Anita that first hooked you up with John Sadler?

00:55:49Yeah, me and Brother Pete were in the box.

00:55:50We had a box every weekend.

00:55:53So we were sitting there in the box.

00:55:54And it was January of 2010.

00:55:57And I turned to Brother Pete and I said, I think I'm going to claim a racehorse.

00:56:01And he goes, we don't know anything about this.

00:56:03I'm like, you know what I think?

00:56:04I just, I think I want to do this.

00:56:06I think this would be fun.

00:56:07Just to get a racehorse.

00:56:09And you would come to the track all the time.

00:56:10I think I want to get involved a little bit.

00:56:12So our usher, Tony, very, very Italian guy.

00:56:15And he knew us because we had come to the track for a lot of years.

00:56:19And we had our same little seats.

00:56:21And he's like, don't talk to anybody.

00:56:23Don't tell anybody what you just told me.

00:56:25Just, I'll see you next Saturday.

00:56:27I'll have an appointment for you.

00:56:28So we went back the next Saturday and he said, okay, between race four and seven,

00:56:33I'm going to take you down and introduce you to John Sadler.

00:56:35I'm like, yeah, that's going to be a waste of time.

00:56:37You know, John's got Ike and Don Thrash, and he's got Jenny Craig.

00:56:41And I'm like, yeah, he's got great horses, you know, like Sidney's Candy, Twirling Candy.

00:56:46And he had the Moss, he had Jerry Moss's horses.

00:56:49I'm like, yeah, this is not going to work out.

00:56:52I need something a little more scaled down.

00:56:54He's going, no, no, no.

00:56:55He's a Pasadena guy.

00:56:56And you're a Pasadena guy.

00:56:57Let's just go down.

00:56:58We'll just go talk.

00:57:00So as it turned out, you know, we went down.

00:57:02I think we, he, we didn't interview John.

00:57:04John interviewed us.

00:57:06So, um, and we, and we met.

00:57:08And I think that Tuesday went down, had lunch with him.

00:57:10And, and then at that point we claimed our first horse, um, in February, 17th, 2010,

00:57:16named Sleep Tight.

00:57:18We got a valuable lesson.

00:57:19So Sleep Tight ran, I think got second.

00:57:22We came back a month later, claimed it for 40.

00:57:25Came back a month later and ran as a favorite, got third.

00:57:28And then had to go, you know, to the farm for almost a year

00:57:34because that little tiny issues that John needed to address and no surgeries or anything,

00:57:39but just needed some time off.

00:57:40Cause she, I think she was five or six.

00:57:43Um, and then when she finally did come back a year later, they claimed her.

00:57:46So it's a valuable lesson.

00:57:49Maybe you should name your horse, Tony the Usher.

00:57:51Yeah, exactly.

00:57:52No, you're right.

00:57:53There you go.

00:57:54Yeah, I got a little baptism by fire there.

00:57:56Yeah.

00:57:56I mean, his last question for me, just if, if Costa Herodas now could talk to Costa Herodas

00:58:01back then when you were just dreaming about claiming a horse, what would he say?

00:58:05Wow.

00:58:06I guess it just, for what it's, I mean, I remember at the end of 2010, we had three

00:58:10horses and I was like, wow, we got three horses now.

00:58:13This is just, this has gotten out of hand.

00:58:15This has gotten crazy.

00:58:18So, and then it's just little by little.

00:58:20Lady of Shamrock came along.

00:58:22We had a great year with Lady of Shamrock.

00:58:24And then at that point, I think it, we became believers like this can be done.

00:58:29You don't have to be running a money fund for, for some company, or you don't have to

00:58:37have an oil company to do this.

00:58:39A couple of farmer, farm kids from Delano, California can do this if they just get, get

00:58:45lucky.

00:58:46And we got lucky.

00:58:47And I guess Lady of Shamrock made us believers with her three-year-old career.

00:58:51And we just kept kind of reinvesting, reinvesting.

00:58:54And it's just kind of turned into what it is today.

00:58:58I give Lady of Shamrock a lot of credit for building the stable because she's, she's

00:59:02actually the one that got us really started.

00:59:04Costa, thank you so much for coming on.

00:59:06It's great to talk to you.

00:59:07I really appreciate the time.

00:59:08And it's great to see what a nice guy you are.

00:59:10It's nice when nice happens to nice.

00:59:12So congratulations on all the success and thanks for the time.

00:59:15I greatly appreciate it.

00:59:17Greatly honored to be on with you guys and thank you.

00:59:19And, and we'll keep our fingers crossed for Flightline to continue his career as successful

00:59:24as it's been going.

00:59:25Well, good for horse racing.

00:59:27Good for every owner in the country.

00:59:29Good for every racetrack in the country.

00:59:32I believe this is, this is the, might be the shot of the arm we need.

00:59:36So I really hope that we can continue this.

00:59:40Yeah.

00:59:40We're hoping to get down on our knees and beg all the owners to bring them back next

00:59:45Again.

00:59:45I think Flightline is going to get the final decision on this.

00:59:48Right.

00:59:48You're right.

00:59:49Absolutely.

00:59:49I don't speak horse though, but that's like,

00:59:53The Green Group Guest of the Week is sponsored by The Green Group, an accounting, tax,

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01:01:12The weekend preview is sponsored by Three Chimneys.

01:01:20This weekend, we've got a lot of action.

01:01:22It's closing weekend at Del Mar.

01:01:23Usually Del Mar used to close same weekend as Saratoga, but they're going a weekend further

01:01:29this year.

01:01:30So we have the Del Mar Debutante and Del Mar Futurity, which we'll get to in a little bit.

01:01:33We're going to start off talking about the card Saturday at Kentucky Downs, which is

01:01:37a massive, massive card with six Greatest Stakes races, all, according to Bill, our

01:01:43intrepid journalist here, worth $1 million.

01:01:46No, five or six, Joe.

01:01:47Five or six races are worth $1 million.

01:01:50Okay.

01:01:50All right.

01:01:51Thanks for jumping in, Bill, fact-checking me.

01:01:53But let's run down the six Greatest Stakes we've got because it's going to be a great

01:01:58day of action.

01:01:58Twelve-race card.

01:01:59We've got the Mint Million, the Winstar Mint Million.

01:02:02That was canceled last weekend when Kentucky Downs had to cancel the rest of their Saturday

01:02:06card due to rain.

01:02:07We've got the Grade 3 Ladies Turf Stakes.

01:02:09We've got the Grade 2 Turf Sprint, which is a win-in year-end for the Breeders' Cup

01:02:13Turf Sprint.

01:02:14We have the Grade 2 Turf Cup Stakes, which is a win-in year-end for the Breeders' Cup

01:02:18Turf.

01:02:19We have the Grade 3 Ladies Sprint Stakes, and then we have the Grade 2 Franklin Simpson

01:02:24Stakes.

01:02:25So we have six Greatest Stakes.

01:02:26The last five comprise of all Greatest Stakes pick four.

01:02:29The pick four takeout is 14%.

01:02:31It's not like such a shill for Kentucky Downs, but how could you not?

01:02:34Big fields, low takeout, turf racing.

01:02:37It really is a betters' paradise.

01:02:39I think the biggest name that's going to run on Saturday, and Bill will love this, is Gafo.

01:02:45It's going to run in the Grade 2 Turf Cup going a mile and a half.

01:02:49Just two weeks, two measly weeks after winning the Grade 1 Sword Dancer at Saratoga.

01:02:56So he's going to be a short price in there.

01:02:58Like I said, full of fields.

01:02:59Every race has 12, 13, 14 horses.

01:03:03We've got some two-year-old stakes, I believe.

01:03:04They're still coming up at Kentucky Downs.

01:03:06We got a Rest Me Red in the Turf Sprint.

01:03:08He's going to be a pretty big favorite.

01:03:10I'm just shameless plug.

01:03:11I'm going to handicap the Turf Cup and the Turf Sprint on my Better Things episode later

01:03:15today as part of our Breeders' Cup partnership.

01:03:18Bill, any thoughts early on from these Kentucky Downs races?

01:03:21Well, I mean, the overall story is the one you already touched on.

01:03:24The purses and just the astronomical amount of money given away.

01:03:28Other than the Breeders' Cup, is there any day in American racing?

01:03:32I don't think the Belmont Card does, where there's five $1 million races on the card there.

01:03:39And the thing about Gufo, which is really cool, he's running back two weeks.

01:03:42But the reason why is because he's not being campaigned as a stallion prospect.

01:03:47Now, he is not a gelding.

01:03:48He is a horse.

01:03:49But for a horse that is a marathon turf horse, there's really no commercial value to them,

01:03:54at least in this country as a stallion.

01:03:56So Christophe Clement is going for the money.

01:03:58You know, he's going for the right thing here.

01:04:00And that's something we don't see too often.

01:04:02Also, again, we talked about it last week, too.

01:04:05And from a betting standpoint, there's just absolutely nothing like this.

01:04:09In 12 races on the card, 176 horses have been entered.

01:04:15Now, that includes also eligibles.

01:04:17They only run 12 at Kentucky Downs, which I suppose has something to do.

01:04:22Maybe the course is narrow in some parts.

01:04:25Again, I'm going off on another tangent.

01:04:26I'd like to see them expand the course or widen it and run 20 horse races.

01:04:31I mean, like they have the horses to do it.

01:04:33Wouldn't that be the coolest thing in the world?

01:04:35Joe, the other story, well, there's a couple other ones.

01:04:39But Arco comes back in the Kentucky Downs Turf Cup to go against Gufo.

01:04:43He won in 2020.

01:04:45He was second in 2021.

01:04:47Wesley Ward looks really strong.

01:04:49Campanella and the Mint Lady Sprint coming back off a third place finish at Royal Ascot.

01:04:53And in the Franklin spot, Clement also has big invoice, having won six straight races

01:04:59coming into that big race.

01:05:00So just a wonderful card at Kentucky Downs.

01:05:03They don't have to go up against Saratoga, but they do have to go up against Del Mar.

01:05:07So that will take away the spotlight from them just a little bit.

01:05:10But from a betting standpoint and a good racing standpoint, deep fields and also some really,

01:05:15really good horses, this will be the center of the racing universe on Saturday.

01:05:19With apologies to Del Mar.

01:05:21Yeah, for sure.

01:05:21And I just wanted to ask Randy, too, as a handicapper, how do you approach these races

01:05:26at Kentucky Downs?

01:05:26Do you have anything specific that you look for?

01:05:29I throw up a white flag when it comes to Kentucky Downs handicapping.

01:05:35I'm terrible at Kentucky Downs.

01:05:37Yeah, me too.

01:05:38But when you mentioned all the races and you mentioned the winning you're in for the Breeders'

01:05:41Cup Turf, I'll admit I just got on my formulator right here, DRF formulator, and I'm like,

01:05:46I guarantee you I know one horse who's going to be running in that winning you're in a

01:05:49mile and a half.

01:05:50Arklow.

01:05:51And I'm looking at his lifetime past performances.

01:05:53He's won $3 million, right?

01:05:56This is his meal ticket.

01:05:58In 2018, he won this race and he beat Bigger Picture, who was a nice horse by a half length.

01:06:04In 2019, he was second in the Kentucky Cup to Zulu Alpha.

01:06:09In 2020, he won the Kentucky Turf Cup and beat a horse called Red Knight.

01:06:15In 2021, last year, he was beaten a neck in the Turf Cup by Imperador, and now at age

01:06:22eight, here he comes back again and he comes off a really good second place finish to Rock

01:06:28Emperor in his comeback race.

01:06:29He hadn't run since October of 2021.

01:06:32This was at Saratoga.

01:06:34He was beaten a half length and he had some traffic trouble in the race.

01:06:37So Arklow's primed and ready to go again at Kentucky Downs.

01:06:41I think he'll beat Gouffo.

01:06:43All right.

01:06:43Well, there you go.

01:06:44There's Randy's handicapping opinion.

01:06:46His lone handicapping opinion for the weekend at Kentucky Downs.

01:06:50I think about the Turf Cup and that used to be the real centerpiece of the meet.

01:06:55That was it at Kentucky Downs and the old dueling grounds.

01:06:59Now you look at these cards and all these Greatest Stakes races.

01:07:02Shout out to the Greatest Stakes committee because they really have rewarded Kentucky

01:07:05Downs.

01:07:06It's time for them to get a great one, but overall, they've rewarded Kentucky Downs for

01:07:10running these big fields and having these big purses.

01:07:13In general, we need fewer Greatest Stakes in America, but this is a track that deserves

01:07:18more Greatest Stakes and some great ones as well.

01:07:20And I think that they've done a good job with that.

01:07:22I'm interested in Campanella running too because this is one of the few places in America where

01:07:27she's going to run as close to a full field as possible.

01:07:31She ran against 23 horses last time in the Platinum Jubilee.

01:07:35It was a close third, beat 21 of those horses.

01:07:39I did the math correctly, I think.

01:07:41That was at Royal Ascot.

01:07:42That was against Boys as well.

01:07:44She's a really, really nice filly.

01:07:46She was also a head second in the Commonwealth Cup against Boys last year at Royal Ascot.

01:07:51So she has done a lot in a relatively short career.

01:07:55She's only run eight times or nine times, excuse me.

01:07:58She's won five times.

01:07:59So I'm really interested in seeing her.

01:08:00She's going to run in the Ladies Sprint Stakes, which is the second to last race on the card.

01:08:05Like I said, we have Delmar as well coming up.

01:08:07We're going to get to that after the break, but this weekend preview is brought to you

01:08:10by Three Chimney Stallions.

01:08:12Gunrunner had his latest graded winner over the weekend with Wicked Halo in the grade

01:08:16two Prioress Stakes.

01:08:17The Winchell Thoroughbreds homebred is now undefeated in our last three starts.

01:08:20She's been off the board only once in her nine lifetime starts.

01:08:23Gunrunner also had a juvenile winner over the weekend with Red Route One.

01:08:27There's another Winchell Thoroughbreds homebred who broke his maiden at Kentucky Downs.

01:08:31Gunrunner has almost 30 yearlings in Keeneland September Book One alone,

01:08:35including, as we mentioned earlier, the full sister to grade two Prioress winner Wicked

01:08:40Halo.

01:08:40How many of those Gunrunners are going to be in the top 10, top 15 yearlings?

01:08:46My guess is he's going to have at least a third of them because he's just an absolute

01:08:50sensation.

01:08:51I'm sure everybody at Three Chimneys feels lucky to have him.

01:08:53So we'll be right back after this message from Three Chimney Stallions.

01:08:58Here comes Tabor.

01:09:00Tabor in the center of the track with good looking stride.

01:09:03Squares off with Cyberknife.

01:09:04Cyberknife takes the lead.

01:09:06Tabor going with him.

01:09:07These two in a thriller.

01:09:08Cyberknife just in front.

01:09:10And Cyberknife has won the TBG.com Haskell over Tabor.

01:09:15Jack Christopher finished third.

01:09:17The running time, one minute, 46.24 seconds.

01:09:21Gunrunners on top of the world.

01:09:24Come dream with us at Three Chimneys.

01:09:32And it's all Tyler's tribe to the final furlong.

01:09:35He's putting on another show tonight.

01:09:37He is eight lengths in front.

01:09:39Now it's 10.

01:09:40Now it's 12.

01:09:41Tyler's tribe pouring it on as they come down to the line.

01:09:45He's going to win by double digits.

01:09:47And he stops the clock in 1.04.

01:09:58All right.

01:09:58So like I mentioned, this weekend is closing weekend at Del Mar.

01:10:01It's a week later than it used to be because they started the meet a little bit later.

01:10:05We have the two grade ones for two-year-olds.

01:10:08That's not all, though.

01:10:09We do have the TBG Del Mar debutant, which is on Saturday.

01:10:12Grade one for the Phillies.

01:10:14And then we have the Run Happy Del Mar Futurity, which is on Sunday for the boys.

01:10:18We also have some other stuff at Del Mar to look forward to.

01:10:20We have the Del Mar Juvenile Turf Stakes, which is a grade three on Sunday.

01:10:24I think that's the first year this is graded or maybe the second year.

01:10:28It's gotten some good horses in recent years.

01:10:30Horses have gone on the Do OK and the Breeders' Cup.

01:10:32We also have a grade two John C. Mabee Stakes on Saturday at Del Mar.

01:10:36We have a couple other races at Kentucky Downs.

01:10:38We have a couple of stakes on Saturday.

01:10:40The ACS Ladies Marathon Stakes, the Untappable Stakes.

01:10:44The Nelson's Greenbrier Tennessee Whiskey Music City Stakes.

01:10:47Got through that in one beat.

01:10:50You know, I'm a professional here.

01:10:52It's harder to write, I think, than it is to say.

01:10:54And then we also have some stuff overseas to look forward to.

01:10:56We have the Irish Champion Stakes this weekend.

01:10:59I think Mishrif is going to be in there.

01:11:00But Danny, who's a very nice horse, who's won some big races in France,

01:11:04is going to be in that race.

01:11:05We have the Prix Vermeil in France as well, which is a group one.

01:11:09Yeah, I mean, Del Mar has had, I think, has had a pretty good meet.

01:11:13I'm interested to see the handle when it comes out at the end of the meet,

01:11:16as well as the safety stats, because that's been a big thing.

01:11:20That's a big, big feather in the cap for Del Mar, I think, in recent years,

01:11:23is how few breakdowns they've had and how few injuries they've had.

01:11:26So I haven't seen any numbers yet from this meet so far.

01:11:30But I assume they're still chugging along in that regard,

01:11:33and they deserve a lot of credit for that.

01:11:34But yeah, I also want to mention the Wonderware Stakes is on Sunday at Woodbine,

01:11:38which is restricted for Ontario-bred three-year-old fillies.

01:11:44Guessing that Moira is going to go on the Prince of Wales.

01:11:47I'm guessing she's not.

01:11:47No, Joe, she's not.

01:11:49Oh, go ahead.

01:11:49They have confirmed they're passing the Prince of Wales,

01:11:53and they're going to run next in either the Cotillion or the Queen Elizabeth II,

01:11:57because they want to get graded stakes victories out of her.

01:12:01And obviously, you can't do that in restricted races in Canada.

01:12:04Oh, damn.

01:12:05I mean, I would have liked to see her go for the Canadian Triple Crown,

01:12:07but I mean, I guess that makes sense.

01:12:09And has she run on dirt yet?

01:12:12I don't believe she has.

01:12:14I think it's all synthetic, and she's never run on the turf either.

01:12:17So her next start, if it's one of those two, either way, it'll be uncharted territory.

01:12:22Gotcha.

01:12:23All right.

01:12:23Yeah, so we'll keep an eye out for her wherever she runs.

01:12:26But yeah, definitely Delmar, Kentucky Downs, the places to watch and be this weekend,

01:12:31especially Kentucky Downs with those fields.

01:12:33Like Randy said, it's a tough nut to crack, especially if you do multi-race wagers.

01:12:39There are so many landmines in those sequences,

01:12:42but you can make money within the race, theoretically.

01:12:44Theoretically, you can make money because of the low takeout and the big fields.

01:12:51That's all I can think about is the opportunity,

01:12:55but it hardly ever works out.

01:12:58The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.

01:13:01West Point is riding high after Flightline made history over the weekend.

01:13:05They also had first captain finish third in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

01:13:08And this week, they're going to have several performers at Kentucky Downs,

01:13:12including Caval Recharge, who will run in the grade three

01:13:14WinStar of Mint Million on Saturday.

01:13:17Huge congratulations, obviously, to everybody at West Point and Terry Finley

01:13:21for Flightline's performance.

01:13:22Like I said, guys, this is what you spend all the money for.

01:13:25This is what you put in all the time for us to get a horse like this.

01:13:28You guys deserve it.

01:13:29It was great to see, and I hope all the partners, like I said,

01:13:32are still riding high after Saturday.

01:13:34So we'll be right back after this message with West Point Thoroughbreds.

01:13:39All the thrills.

01:13:43Fraction of the bills.

01:13:48Experience the power of the partnership.

01:13:53Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.

01:14:01West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.

01:14:05Visit westpointtb.com.

01:14:08Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.

01:14:11We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.

01:14:14We know it's a huge responsibility.

01:14:16We're always with your horse, every step of the way,

01:14:20when it comes to being at the sales ground, showing your horses.

01:14:22We are with your horse.

01:14:24Just driving up and down the road every day.

01:14:26There's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal,

01:14:30the people that come to invest in the game.

01:14:32I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can,

01:14:35because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.

01:14:40The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.

01:14:43Legacy has almost 100 yearlings cataloged for the upcoming Kingland September sale,

01:14:47including two Gunrunner yearlings and a Curlin filly.

01:14:51In Book 1 and Book 2, they'll have 10 go through the ring in the third session,

01:14:55including HIP 382, who's a vino rosso half-sister to Grade 3 winner Cosmic Burst.

01:15:00HIP 519, who's a practical joke half-sister to Grade 1 winner Melatonin.

01:15:06Best of luck to Tommy and Wendy and the people at Legacy at the Kingland September sale.

01:15:10We know you've been prepping for this for a while.

01:15:12Go see them.

01:15:13They will definitely take care of you.

01:15:15All right.

01:15:16It wouldn't be a TDN Riders Room without a trainers behaving badly segment.

01:15:19And the Pennsylvania Racing Commission is making news all the time these days.

01:15:23They have been on a spree, on a kill streak,

01:15:27unlike any regulatory body I've ever seen in racing.

01:15:30Maybe you guys have seen something like this.

01:15:32Not me.

01:15:32Bill reported this story.

01:15:34Penny Pierce, who was a trainer in Pennsylvania,

01:15:36got suspended 1,950 days and got fine five figures,

01:15:42because six of her horses tested positive for clenbuterol.

01:15:45Key here, out-of-competition testing,

01:15:47which I don't think is something that a lot of racing commissions

01:15:50and regulatory bodies do, but it's huge to catch potential cheaters.

01:15:54And I'm going to let Bill talk in a second,

01:15:56but he had an interesting point in his story

01:15:58about how Penny Pierce was like a 10% or 11% trainer.

01:16:01And then in the last year or two,

01:16:02suddenly she started winning at like 23%, 24%,

01:16:05which instantly arouses suspicion.

01:16:08So I don't understand why trainers think that they can get away

01:16:11with being a new trainer overnight and not having so little bit of scrutiny.

01:16:14Actually, I do understand why they do that,

01:16:16because no one cares in racing usually about these things.

01:16:18But the Pennsylvania Racing Commission does seem to care.

01:16:21They've gotten a lot of people suspended in recent months.

01:16:25Bill, what else did you think about the story?

01:16:27Joe, this is a messy one, and it goes beyond just the headline

01:16:30of the 1,900 and some odd days.

01:16:32And you touched on part of the story,

01:16:35but there's even more to it than that.

01:16:37Penny Pierce was just a trainer you paid no attention to.

01:16:40She was an 11% trainer.

01:16:41She had been around for a while.

01:16:42I think I recall writing that the most winner she had in any year was 19%.

01:16:47In 2021, that all changed.

01:16:49All of a sudden, she was a 23% trainer winning many more races,

01:16:53and I believe she's winning at 28% on the year.

01:16:56So what happened here?

01:16:57Well, it's not just did she wake up one morning

01:17:01and figure out how to train horses.

01:17:02There's more to it than that.

01:17:04There was a trainer at Parks by the name of Ramon Preciado,

01:17:07who was another guy, you know,

01:17:09is unbelievable winning percentage, etc.

01:17:11And he had his license revoked back in 2016 for clembuterol positives.

01:17:18Now, you're right about the Pennsylvania Racing Commission,

01:17:21what they've done lately.

01:17:22But in a decision that makes absolutely no sense,

01:17:25and they do deserve a lot of criticism for,

01:17:28they gave Ramon Preciado not a trainer's license,

01:17:31but they gave him a license to be a groom.

01:17:34I guess figuring as a groom,

01:17:35he couldn't get into that much trouble.

01:17:37Lo and behold, he was hired by Penny Pierce.

01:17:41So Ramon Preciado, the trainer that had his license revoked,

01:17:45went into the employ of Penny Pierce.

01:17:47And virtually from that day on,

01:17:49that's when she became a totally different trainer.

01:17:52Draw your own conclusions.

01:17:55Well, I know you guys have probably addressed,

01:17:56I know you have, I've heard you address this a lot,

01:18:00the abuse of clembuterol, right?

01:18:03I think you had Mark Cassie on.

01:18:05I've had long conversations with Cassie about this.

01:18:07I don't want to call him a whistleblower,

01:18:09but he's been extremely outspoken in his belief

01:18:12that clembuterol, since the phase-out abolition

01:18:17of anabolic steroids in the sport,

01:18:19that clembuterol has been the single most abused drug

01:18:23in thoroughbred racing

01:18:24because of its steroidal qualities, right?

01:18:28And now, thankfully,

01:18:29racing jurisdictions around the country,

01:18:31some quicker than others,

01:18:32are starting to phase out the use of clembuterol,

01:18:34some entirely.

01:18:36So look, I don't know Penny Pierce.

01:18:38She may be the nicest person in the world,

01:18:40but I love the sport.

01:18:42And I have no sympathy whatsoever for Penny Pierce

01:18:46or any trainer that abuses clembuterol

01:18:50and uses it as a performance enhancing vehicle.

01:18:53Yeah, absolutely.

01:18:54I mean, how could you?

01:18:55And like I said, it's great.

01:18:57It's great to finally see some teeth

01:18:59behind the regulatory rulings.

01:19:03It's not 10 days and a $500 fine.

01:19:06I think about Peter Miller getting, what,

01:19:08seven days for program training in California?

01:19:11Like that kind of stuff,

01:19:13that really just makes you depressed and cynical

01:19:15and feel like there's no cops on the beat

01:19:19and there's no people who actually have the stomach

01:19:21to punish people in racing

01:19:22for these kind of egregious offenses.

01:19:24And yeah, so how could you have any sympathy?

01:19:27I just wanted to mention this other story too

01:19:28before we go real quick.

01:19:31Drafted, who was a horse who ran fifth

01:19:33in the forgo stakes.

01:19:35The owners of Drafted have,

01:19:37I'm quoting from Bill Finley's story here.

01:19:38The owners of Drafted have appealed a ruling

01:19:40handed down by Hyza that could cost them $26,000

01:19:44in purse money because their jockey,

01:19:46Luis Castro, violated Hyza rules

01:19:48regarding the use of the whip.

01:19:51Niagara stewards determined that Castro

01:19:52hit the gelding 10 times during the race.

01:19:54Under Hyza regulations that have been in place

01:19:56since July 1st, a rider cannot whip a horse

01:20:00more than six times.

01:20:01According to the DRF, under Hyza rules,

01:20:03if a jockey strikes a horse seven to nine times

01:20:05during a race, there's no loss of purse.

01:20:07Instead, the rider is fine and suspended for one day.

01:20:09And when a jockey hits the horse 10 to 13 times,

01:20:12the jockey receives a three-day suspension

01:20:14and the horse is disqualified

01:20:16when it comes to purse earnings.

01:20:17I'm curious what you guys think about this

01:20:18because I saw a lot of uproar about this

01:20:21and obviously they're appealing

01:20:22and trying to get this overturned.

01:20:25I think what the spirit of the rule

01:20:27and the intention behind the rule

01:20:29is potentially scenarios where the owners

01:20:33tell the jockey, listen, just hit the horse

01:20:35as many times as you got to hit them.

01:20:37We will pay your fine.

01:20:38We will pay for the loss of mounts for a day.

01:20:41This way, they tell the owners basically,

01:20:44no, well, you're not going to get

01:20:45the purse earnings either.

01:20:46On the other hand, the owners don't really

01:20:48have anything to do with, if that's not the case

01:20:51and they're not instructing the jockey to do this,

01:20:53the owners don't really have anything to do

01:20:54with what the jockey does

01:20:55when he gets on the back of the horse.

01:20:57The jockey could have been acting on his own.

01:20:59I'm not sure where I fall on this.

01:21:01What do you guys think?

01:21:02Well, you don't have to like the rule,

01:21:05but the rule is there.

01:21:07Look, the owners of this horse,

01:21:10everybody's entitled to appeal

01:21:12and that sort of thing.

01:21:12I don't know what their defense would be.

01:21:14I mean, nobody's saying,

01:21:15so if you hit the horse more than six times,

01:21:18there's a penalty and if you hit them

01:21:19the amount of 10 times, there's a penalty

01:21:21that includes the taking away of the purse.

01:21:24I don't know what their defense would be.

01:21:25I don't think anyone said,

01:21:26no, you got it wrong.

01:21:27You only hit the horse five times.

01:21:29And Joe, you brought up the point too,

01:21:31which is very salient in here.

01:21:33Again, you don't have to like the rule,

01:21:35but if you're going to have a rule like this,

01:21:37I think you need this kind of deterrent.

01:21:40Again, let's get to the Breeders' Cup Classic

01:21:42with $6 million on the line.

01:21:44And at the 16th pole,

01:21:45two horses are locked in battle, neck and neck.

01:21:48And the jockey on one of the horses thinks

01:21:50that the only way I'm gonna win this race

01:21:51is to continue to hit this horse

01:21:53and whip it, then you're gonna say,

01:21:55then you're gonna find the guy $100

01:21:57or suspend him seven days or something like that.

01:21:59But he'll take the seven-day suspension.

01:22:01He'll take the $100 fine

01:22:02and throw caution to the wind

01:22:04because he wants to win the race.

01:22:06So I think you do need this kind of deterrent in place.

01:22:10It's also relevant that the jockey

01:22:12that did this is a guy,

01:22:14I don't know, I haven't heard of the guy.

01:22:16I mean-

01:22:16He's like a low-percent rider in New York.

01:22:19He's like a-

01:22:20You know, that is not used to riding in big races.

01:22:23You know, not riding every-

01:22:24I don't think, you know,

01:22:25this would have happened to a top-tier rider in New York

01:22:28because they know the rules,

01:22:29they follow, they're now used to riding

01:22:31in these instances.

01:22:33So, yeah, you know,

01:22:34it's a tough pill to swallow for the owners.

01:22:36But at the end of the day,

01:22:38I think they're gonna lose their $26,000.

01:22:41I mean, look, I'm a fan of whip rules in general,

01:22:43even though they're very hard to administer.

01:22:46I know we've all probably talked to people

01:22:48who don't know that much about horse racing,

01:22:51who maybe want to get into it.

01:22:52And they say, wait, look,

01:22:54if horses love to run so much,

01:22:55then why do they have to be whipped?

01:22:57It's a visual that in 2022

01:23:00is a lot more difficult to explain,

01:23:03given the animal rights situation

01:23:05right now in this country

01:23:06than it was 25 years ago.

01:23:08So I completely understand

01:23:10why tracks are going to whip rules.

01:23:12But to Bill's point,

01:23:13which I completely agree with,

01:23:15if you're gonna have whip rules,

01:23:17they have to have some teeth.

01:23:19There has to be a credible deterrent

01:23:22to riders or else they're not gonna pay

01:23:24any attention to the rules at all

01:23:25if they're locked in battle in a big race.

01:23:28So short of disqualifying a horse on the spot

01:23:32and penalizing bettors,

01:23:34which to me is pretty debatable.

01:23:38I think the loss of purse money for the owners,

01:23:41as unfortunate as it is,

01:23:43because owners already

01:23:45are in a pretty difficult spot financially,

01:23:48I can't see any other reasonable deterrent

01:23:50and the rules there so unfortunate.

01:23:52All right, this week's Remy cartoon

01:23:54is pretty timely,

01:23:55considering the jockey violations

01:23:57we were just talking about.

01:23:58It's a jockey talking to a steward in the booth

01:24:01and the steward says to him,

01:24:02I'm sorry, Jorge,

01:24:03but claiming executive privilege

01:24:05won't work in this instance.

01:24:06Very newsworthy.

01:24:10All right, so that's gonna do it

01:24:11for this week's edition

01:24:11of the TDN Writer's Room

01:24:13presented by Keeneland.

01:24:14The Keeneland September sale begins Monday,

01:24:16next Monday, September 12th

01:24:17and runs through September 24th.

01:24:19You can check out the catalog

01:24:20with over 4,100 yearlings

01:24:22at theworldseerlingsale.com.

01:24:25I wanna thank Bill Finley,

01:24:26our very special guest, Randy Moss,

01:24:28our Green Group Guest of the Week, Costa Jaronis,

01:24:30our producer, Patty Wolf,

01:24:31our associate producer, Katie Petruniak

01:24:33and our editors, Anthony LaRocca,

01:24:35Aliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.

01:24:37Thank you so much for watching.

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