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00:00Episode 2
00:01These three are our guests for today.
00:04So this is how it starts.
00:05Oh, so this is how it starts.
00:06It's not that loose.
00:08Well, that's how it is.
00:10Nice to meet you.
00:11Nice to meet you.
00:13This is amazing.
00:15Amazing.
00:16I'm a big fan of your horse.
00:18Yeah, he told me about it.
00:19Horse?
00:21Horse-hunting?
00:22When did you write this?
00:24I wrote this about a year and a half ago.
00:26I have a big exhibition coming up, so I thought I'd introduce it to you.
00:29Wow, that's great.
00:33You know, gallery spaces are usually
00:36a place where people come to look around for unusual things.
00:39So I thought it'd be nice if you could sit down and look at the plants.
00:43I thought it'd be nice if you could sit down and look at the plants.
00:45It's like I'm sitting on the floor.
00:47It's like a workplace.
00:49When did you two meet?
00:51We first met when COVID-19 was over.
00:54We went out to eat.
00:54Right.
00:55And we started talking about what we wanted to do.
01:00Tomokazu Matsuyama, a contemporary artist.
01:04After graduating from Tsuchiuchi University, he retired at the age of 25.
01:09He started working as an artist in New York.
01:15A huge mural with a height of 6 meters and a width of 26 meters.
01:21In 2020, he will be working on large-scale works such as the huge public art at Shinjuku Station.
01:29Currently, a large-scale exhibition, Tomokazu Matsuyama's First Last, is being held at Asabu Daihilsu Gallery.
01:40Artist Yuzu's leader, Yujin Kitagawa, and sub-leader Koji Iwasawa.
01:48In 1996, he formed Yuzu and started performing on the street in Isezaki-cho, Yokohama.
01:56In 1998, he performed his first single, Natsuiro, and won the audience's heart.
02:07Since then, he has released many hit songs.
02:11In 2022, Matsuyama-san is in charge of the jacket design for his 16th album, People.
02:22In addition, Matsuyama-san also worked on the stage art visual for the arena tour to commemorate his 25th debut anniversary.
02:32When the three of them were working together, the production site was in chaos due to COVID-19.
02:40At that time, we were not sure if we could hold a live concert or not.
02:45There was a limit on the number of people at the venue, but we were able to hold a live concert.
02:51At the time of COVID-19, we were able to hold a concert, but the venue was half full.
02:59We couldn't make a sound.
03:01I was wondering if we could hold an arena tour in such a situation.
03:05We were planning to make the stage design at a great speed.
03:09We were planning to hold an exhibition at the museum in three years, but three months before that, we were planning to hold an arena tour.
03:16That's an example.
03:19But it's tough, isn't it?
03:22It's really tough, isn't it?
03:24It's either.
03:26We were fine with 30 grams of alcohol in the middle of the night.
03:31We drank a lot.
03:33It was just alcohol.
03:37But the next day, we went to the studio at 7.30 a.m. and read a book.
03:43We didn't take a break, did we?
03:46I've never seen Matsuyama-san like this.
03:50I've never seen any of his videos.
03:52I've never met him.
03:54Where did he go?
03:55We were quite absent-minded.
03:58We were completely absent-minded.
04:00He's the type of person who's not good if he doesn't move all the time.
04:04He's always in the same mood.
04:06He's a little high-spirited, isn't he?
04:08He's high-spirited.
04:10I thought he was more cool before we met.
04:14I sent him a long message.
04:16Oh, did you?
04:18Like, this is what I think about the work.
04:20I'm busy, but I'm thinking like this in front of you.
04:25At first, it was a new platform for everyone to express what they wanted to do.
04:32What was the first thing you talked about and decided to do?
04:37At first, it was like a live version of the best scene.
04:44Let's do it like this.
04:46I see.
04:48We can't meet the two of us.
04:50I'm going to make a song that I can do at that time.
04:52And I'm going to change the studio.
04:54Then I'll be there until 15 o'clock in the evening.
04:57Then Iwasa will come, so I'll go home.
04:59I'm lonely.
05:01We can't go together.
05:03We can't go together.
05:05I happened to be on a project.
05:07It was March 2020 in Japan.
05:11I got a call at that time.
05:13I was coming back to Japan.
05:15But I couldn't go back.
05:17I couldn't look at the studio with a security camera.
05:23I wanted to make a work while looking at it.
05:25I'm lonely.
05:27I've been watching my studio all the time.
05:29I was wondering if I could go home.
05:32New York was becoming a hell.
05:34I couldn't go home.
05:36I didn't know when I could go home.
05:38I wanted to make a work.
05:40It's like a joke.
05:42It's a big work called COVID-19 Prevention.
05:47I sent the canvas to my staff.
05:52I made a work by zooming in.
05:56The title is strange.
05:58I agree.
06:00How should I name the title?
06:04Our songs were like that in the beginning.
06:08It was a double-edged sword.
06:11It doesn't matter what the title is.
06:13If we understand each other, we can make the next song.
06:18At some point, I said to my senior,
06:20It's a waste.
06:22Let's make a title for this song.
06:25Because it's such a good song.
06:27It has nothing to do with the song.
06:30We have a song called Shounen.
06:34I can't think of the lyrics of Shounen.
06:38Mr. Kitada was shocked.
06:42He said he was a shock boy.
06:45Shounen.
06:47I think the new song Shounen is good.
06:50Because it was at that time.
06:52I'm also influenced by music.
06:54I have the most songs in my iTunes library.
06:59I go there and combine the titles of some songs.
07:03For example, if you go to B,
07:05There is a song called Beats.
07:07There is a song called Billy Joel.
07:09There is a song called Beatles.
07:11There is a song called Beats.
07:13When I put the titles together,
07:15I made a song with the title of the song.
07:17I made the atmosphere of the song.
07:19I think the atmosphere will be a story.
07:22There is something called Ultra Honesty.
07:25I think so.
07:27I can do Ultra Honesty.
07:36I say go, go, go.
07:42Oh no.
07:46You say goodbye.
07:48I say hello.
07:51Hello, hello.
07:53I don't know why you say goodbye.
07:56I say hello.
07:58In the case of Yuzu, both of you make songs.
08:01What was it like at that time?
08:03The type may be different.
08:06For example, when you have a goal, you will make it.
08:09I make songs every day.
08:12Corona is the most regular.
08:17I wake up in the morning, brush my teeth,
08:20sit at the desk, make a song,
08:23and have dinner in the evening.
08:26It's amazing.
08:28I'm a musician.
08:30When you talk to people who make songs,
08:33you often base it on your own experience.
08:36For example, in the case of Corona,
08:39where did you start making songs?
08:42I was enjoying it while feeling various things.
08:45In our case, for example,
08:47the most important thing is
08:49from zero to nothing,
08:52there is a moment when you get first place.
08:57It's an actual experience,
08:59it's a story I've heard from someone,
09:01or it's an incident that's happening.
09:03I drop my filter and make it zero and one.
09:06I'm going to derive from there.
09:08I think there's a lot of time
09:11to go through all the parts of the words
09:14and thoughts that I have.
09:18It's a process of adding meat and adding meat.
09:21That's right.
09:23In the case of Yuzu,
09:25what is the moment of zero and one?
09:28I'm a painter,
09:30but when I make a work,
09:32I start with the letters.
09:34It's not a sentence,
09:36but I write randomly on paper
09:38what comes out.
09:40When I look at it for a while,
09:42I wonder what I'm talking about.
09:45I've been doing that for a while,
09:49and it's been about two months.
09:52I don't know what kind of work I'm going to make.
09:55It's not a picture yet?
09:57Not at all.
09:59I don't know what I want to draw,
10:01so if I draw a picture,
10:03I'm going to follow my imagination.
10:05Is that a flow?
10:07If I do that for about two hours,
10:09my brain is a little...
10:11Surprisingly, everyone has a flow.
10:13I've had a flow for a long time.
10:16I run three songs together.
10:20I do one by one,
10:22and when I'm bored,
10:24I do this.
10:26This takes a long time,
10:28but this takes about 15 minutes.
10:30It's like a pendulum.
10:32Creative doesn't come out
10:34when you don't try to push it.
10:36If you're not careful,
10:38you'll be in a cycle
10:40and get into a loop.
10:42Do you have a slump?
10:44I'm still in a slump.
10:46I don't think I'm in a slump
10:48when I'm making something this big.
10:50I don't think so.
10:52Don't you feel frustrated?
10:54Like, this isn't it.
10:56Don't you feel frustrated?
10:58I've broken it a few times in the past.
11:00Oh, you've broken it.
11:02It's not this.
11:04If I say,
11:06the brush got stuck.
11:08I've seen that.
11:10I've seen that Matsuyama.
11:12But that was a long time ago.
11:14That was a long time ago.
11:16Do you play Mahjong?
11:18I like Mahjong.
11:20Don't you drink alcohol?
11:22I do.
11:24You're like Suiken.
11:28I asked you a question
11:30at the studio in New York.
11:32How many young staff
11:34are there?
11:36There are about 28 or 29 people.
11:38That's amazing.
11:40It looks like a lot of fun.
11:42In the field of art,
11:44there are some parts
11:46that are not so cool.
11:48For example,
11:50when there is an exhibition,
11:52I have to keep drawing
11:54for several days.
11:56It's not an easy situation.
11:58But everyone is doing it
12:00so energetically.
12:02It's like a breeze.
12:04That's amazing.
12:06That's great.
12:08There are two great songs.
12:10There is a boss
12:12who is very good at it.
12:14It's the opposite of Matsuyama.
12:16If it's like a fun collision practice,
12:18it's easy.
12:20When they make their own works,
12:22they go to their own works
12:24and try to make more amazing works.
12:26I'm doing it with motivation.
12:28I'm making a work
12:30in an environment where everyone's opinions can be expressed.
12:32Do you say a lot?
12:34Don't you make the color a little yellow?
12:36Yes.
12:38Matsuyama,
12:40isn't it a little different from what you think?
12:42There is a relationship to say that.
12:44I have courage.
12:46Who did you say that to?
12:48Who did you say that to?
12:50When they make their own works,
12:52they can't see it,
12:54so they say,
12:56I'm a little lost.
12:58The studio has a relationship
13:00to make their own works,
13:02so when they see each other making it,
13:04they go somewhere.
13:06You are the leader of the project,
13:08but when artists line up,
13:10do you have a flat relationship?
13:12I decide everything
13:14and decide to do this.
13:16It takes about seven months
13:18to make a big work.
13:20I start without deciding anything.
13:22In the sense of enjoying the process
13:24of making a work,
13:26it's like a freestyle.
13:28It's like a street live.
13:30When it's over,
13:32it becomes a fossil and becomes one crystal.
13:34When I have a team,
13:36I try to do things
13:38that I can't do
13:40with my own capacity.
13:42The good thing about art
13:44is that you can enjoy
13:46trial and error.
13:48I thought that was the most important thing.
13:50What made you decide to come to New York?
13:52I couldn't do it in Japan.
13:54Originally,
13:56I used to snowboard.
13:58When I was a kid,
14:00I lived in the west coast of the United States for a few years.
14:02At that time,
14:04skateboarding and surfboarding
14:06became the culture of young people.
14:08While I was doing that,
14:10I received a lot of sponsorship
14:12when I was a college student.
14:14I used to go abroad
14:16and take pictures.
14:18But I got injured
14:20and broke my ankle.
14:22I couldn't walk for about 10 months.
14:2410 months?
14:26Yes, 10 months of rehabilitation.
14:28I had a broken bone and had surgery.
14:30I couldn't skate anymore.
14:32I wanted to do something else.
14:34I was invited to New York.
14:36I decided to draw
14:38when I was 25.
14:40As a result,
14:42there was no place to make a presentation,
14:44so I had to make the city a canvas.
14:46It's a strange story.
14:48In New York,
14:50when you start drawing
14:52on the street,
14:54don't you feel scared?
14:56At first,
14:58I thought it was scary.
15:00For example, when I draw a mural,
15:02I have a strong sense of community.
15:04When I draw every day,
15:06everyone gets along with me.
15:08When I draw every day,
15:10I feel like there is someone.
15:12I see.
15:14The good thing about New York
15:16is that everyone gets along with me
15:18and I feel like I've made friends.
15:20It's the same for Yuzu.
15:22Yes.
15:24When did you start
15:26drawing on the street?
15:28I started drawing
15:30in 1996.
15:32I was tired of practicing at home,
15:34so I decided to sing
15:36outside.
15:38I didn't have money,
15:40so I went out
15:42with my guitar.
15:44In our case,
15:46we were separated
15:48from society.
15:50We were all college students.
15:52There was no connection
15:54between us and society.
15:56It was late at night.
15:58We sang until 3 a.m.
16:00There was no audience.
16:02But it was fun.
16:04I liked it.
16:06It was fun.
16:08It was fun to draw on the street,
16:10but I didn't want to do
16:12something like this.
16:14It was serious.
16:16I graduated from a vocational school.
16:18I didn't know what to do.
16:20I thought I should
16:22draw on the street.
16:24At that time,
16:26the president came
16:28and talked to us.
16:30He said,
16:32what you are doing here
16:34is very cool.
16:36He said yes.
16:38John Lennon went to
16:40Ono Yoko's gallery
16:42and climbed the ladder.
16:44When he looked at the ceiling,
16:46it said,
16:48yes.
16:50Until then,
16:52I changed the form of the live show
16:54that I was doing.
16:56I made a flyer,
16:58a demo tape,
17:00and an MC between songs.
17:02At that time,
17:04there was no audience.
17:06The moment you stopped,
17:08there was an audience.
17:10How can I not let him go?
17:12At first,
17:14there is no other purpose.
17:16I like music,
17:18but there is no audience.
17:20I have to have an audience.
17:22I talk about money.
17:24I talk about food.
17:26But when I come to this stage,
17:28I go back to the initial impulse.
17:30I make music.
17:32I make a work.
17:34I release my strong feelings.
17:36As a result,
17:38it has a big impact.
17:40That's amazing.
17:42I think everything
17:44comes from the street.
17:46Mr. Matsuyama is doing it alone.
17:48I'm sure there are things he is carrying.
17:50Of course,
17:52there are parts
17:54that need to be successful
17:56as a business.
17:58But the fun of being creative
18:00and the initial impulse
18:02to do something like this
18:04can be felt from the work.
18:06That's the street spirit.
18:08I think the roots
18:10are very close.
18:16In 2023,
18:18Yuzu rushed to Mr. Matsuyama's
18:20concert in Aomori
18:22as a surprise.
18:24They are still in contact
18:26with each other beyond the boundary
18:28of art and music.
18:30When I held my first
18:32art museum concert in Japan,
18:34they rushed to me.
18:36I was really happy.
18:38We were happy, too.
18:40Is it your debut anniversary?
18:42Yes, October 25th.
18:44The timing was the same.
18:46A lot of Yuzu fans
18:48came to see me.
18:50Really?
18:52When I was there,
18:54they called out to me.
18:56I was so happy.
18:58They said,
19:00thank you for coming.
19:02For example,
19:04my favorite artist was
19:06the Beatles.
19:08I didn't know about the Beatles,
19:10but I wanted to listen to the Beatles
19:12and feel their music.
19:14I thought,
19:16art is interesting.
19:18We are popular music,
19:20so we want to filter
19:22and convey this fun.
19:24That's what I thought.
19:26If we don't share
19:28or collaborate with each other,
19:30it will be like a collaboration
19:32between noble nobles.
19:34Art is a very noble place
19:36in the culture.
19:38I don't know if the word
19:40is right,
19:42but I think it's right
19:44to say that art is nationalistic.
19:46Nationalistic means
19:48all generations.
19:50We have a high level of culture,
19:52so it can't be equal.
19:54I thought it was amazing
19:56that the two works
19:58could be interwoven.
20:00Only Yuzu can do this.
20:02I think all the artists
20:04we've worked with
20:06think the same thing.
20:08I'm glad to hear that.
20:10By the way,
20:12we are almost in our 50s.
20:14We are the same age.
20:16That's right.
20:18It's a terrible number.
20:20We are still on tour.
20:22It's until next spring, right?
20:24Yes, it is.
20:26How can we get over this long wait?
20:28I agree.
20:30I think it will be easier to live.
20:32When I was young,
20:34I went to the tour first
20:36to see if I could do it.
20:38It was like that,
20:40but I think it's important
20:42to keep your own pace.
20:44It's getting simpler.
20:46At our age,
20:48athletes are at this age
20:50and it's their first battle.
20:52If there is no environment
20:54where they can continue,
20:56it's fun to express
20:58what they are expressing,
21:00and their brains get dopamine
21:02and rest.
21:04That's right.
21:06I've never thought about it,
21:08but it's getting easier
21:10to think about it.
21:12In the past,
21:14we had time,
21:16so we decided to do it.
21:18But now,
21:20we have to make time.
21:22We can't say,
21:24I can do it tomorrow.
21:26We have to confirm it.
21:28Confirm it.
21:30When I was young,
21:32I was a good athlete.
21:34I was a good runner.
21:36I was wearing shoes.
21:38I was like, OK.
21:40We had a lot of time,
21:42but we were stupid.
21:44We had a lot of time.
21:46We had a lot of time.
21:48I don't know where it went.
21:50I don't know where it went.
21:52We were stupid.
21:54We did our best.
21:56We faced ourselves,
21:58and we were blocked.
22:00We have to make time
22:02to go to the space
22:04inside us.
22:06We have to do our best.
22:08In the past,
22:10we were in a place
22:12where no one was.
22:14It's a good thing
22:16to be responsible,
22:18but it's hard
22:20to make time
22:22to do that.
22:24We have to concentrate
22:26on something
22:28and think about it.
22:30When you read a book,
22:32you use your brain.
22:34Watching a movie
22:36or reading a book
22:38is a good way to relax.
22:40Do you play Mahjong?
22:42I like Mahjong.
22:44I play it with my friends.
22:46It's been a long time.
22:48I like it.
22:50It's been a long time.
22:52Do you play Mahjong?
22:54I use my brain,
22:56but I forget the time.
22:58Do you drink alcohol?
23:00Yes, I do.
23:02You're like Suiken.
23:04You have a good score.
23:06You have a conversation.
23:08It's a comprehensive art.
23:10You don't have to play Mahjong.
23:12You have everything.
23:14You have a hobby.
23:16I have a hobby.
23:18I make songs.
23:20I make songs.
23:22I do that all the time.
23:24It's my job
23:26but I opted out because
23:28I'd like to do it differently.
23:30I want to write songs
23:32and write songs all the time.
23:36My inspiration is
23:38to write songs
23:40and compose songs
23:42and compose.
23:44You want to do it.
23:46I want it.
23:48But can we find
23:50We're probably going to do something together, right?
23:52Something together, yeah
23:54I saw you guys camping on YouTube
23:57Ah, camping
23:58I was like, it's so hard to arrange our gear
24:00It's impossible
24:01It's impossible, no way
24:02We can't fix the HiAce
24:04We have to find the right place to go
24:08Yeah, no way
24:10And we start drinking beer and say,
24:12it was great today
24:14It's like you're pretending to be going to a bar
24:17では今日も素晴らしい一日を