Hull City insider Baz Cooper joins James Copley ahead of Sunderland clash...
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00:00Hello everybody, welcome along to the Raw podcast brought to you by The Sunland Echo.
00:25My name is James Copley. I'm delighted today to be joined by Hull City expert, Baz Cooper.
00:32Baz, how are you?
00:34I've never been referred to as that before, James, but thanks very much.
00:38Yeah, I'm good. I'm enjoying your graphics and things on your podcast.
00:41We don't have anything like that. We're very, no frills, a bit like Tesco value.
00:47Well, we're off to a good start. That's two compliments in a row.
00:49Although I can't take credit for the graphics, somebody else has done that for me.
00:53So although I would like to bask in the glory, I can't.
00:56So thanks to Graham, our production guy for that.
00:59Baz, tell me a little bit about yourself and your journey covering and supporting Hull City.
01:03Yeah, so I've been a journalist for a while, worked at Nottingham Post for quite a few years,
01:10covered Nottingham Forest, pre-Premier League days.
01:14Obviously, it turned out well because I was a Forest season ticket holder for 25 years and covered the club.
01:22And then got the opportunity to cover Hull City following their relegation from the Championship during COVID,
01:30which was that 2019-2020 season where they went from being on the cusp of the play-offs,
01:37selling Camille Brzezicki and Jared Bowen and then collapsing,
01:41I think losing 16 of 20 games to get relegated in that season that was, as I say, cut by COVID.
01:47And then my first season covering this wonderful football club was the promotion back to League One.
01:53But unfortunately, the newspaper were banned.
01:55So, yeah, so I had to cover home games from home and I could go to away games,
02:00but we didn't have, we weren't allowed to speak to anybody at the club or go and watch games at the MKM Stadium.
02:07And yes, that was interesting to follow the club promotion back to the Championship.
02:12Then, obviously, into the Championship, the takeover from Ajun Ilijella, from the Allame family.
02:18And here we are. It's been quite a ride, I think it's fair to say.
02:23Well, we'll come on to the game, but being banned sounds very juicy.
02:26So, please, please talk me through that. What on earth happened then? I presume you're back in now.
02:31Yeah, well, to be honest with you, I don't want to throw people under the bus, but it was all before I arrived.
02:37It was something that I think the club had sort of had a disagreement with the newspaper about a piece they wrote.
02:45There was some issue with contracts.
02:47So when obviously the season, you'll remember it, when the season was curtailed because of Covid, it all stopped.
02:53And it didn't resume until kind of like the July of that year, of 2020.
02:58And the club had a lot of issues with contracts and Eric Lehigh, Jackson Irvine and one or two others.
03:05They were obviously free falling from, as I said, the cusp of the top six to bottom of the table.
03:11The fans were obviously, it was it was high time for protest.
03:15Still, the fans were at loggerheads with the Allame family about their ownership of the football club.
03:20And my predecessor and the newspaper here had written something.
03:24I think the Athletic had done something as well.
03:27So the club, the owners kind of threw the toys out the pram a bit and decided to ban the Athletic.
03:33Obviously, the Athletic couldn't care a toss, could they?
03:35So that had no impact.
03:38But they banned the local paper.
03:39So I inherited it, kind of thought, probably naively, a bit, James, if I'm honest.
03:44I thought, oh, it's all right.
03:45Well, you know, new face, I'll go in, sit down with Ehab, who was the then kind of, he basically ran the club on behalf of his late father, who sadly is no longer here.
03:59And I thought, yeah, you know, we'll go in, we'll have a conversation.
04:03We'll sort it out.
04:04Kind of, this doesn't do anybody any favours.
04:06It's Covid, you know, it is what it is.
04:10Sort it out.
04:10No, never happened.
04:12And I was banned right up until the moment Ajan bought the football club.
04:16And I remember it vividly because not only was it my late grandfather's birthday, it was the day that City played Blackburn Rovers.
04:25And I was on the way up to the stadium because, obviously, I'd been in touch with the owner.
04:31Obviously, I'd been meeting him.
04:33I'd interviewed him.
04:34We did the first interview with him, et cetera, et cetera.
04:37So, I'd formed this relationship with the new owner, despite not being able to go into the ground.
04:42He was baffled by the whole thing.
04:44But anyway, I remember waiting at a service station outside of Hull, waiting for a phone call to say, yeah, the takeover's gone through.
04:50You can come to the game.
04:52And I didn't get the phone call until I think it was about half past three on that, I think it was a Tuesday that afternoon, saying, yeah, the takeover's gone through.
05:01You can come to the Blackburn game and City won that game 2-0.
05:06And as I said, the rest is history.
05:09Yeah, it's crazy.
05:10I don't think people realise sometimes the extent of how prickly football clubs can be.
05:16It's a really interesting sort of facet of the job, isn't it?
05:19Like managing that relationship.
05:21But anyway, we'll move on to current affairs because that's what we're here to talk about.
05:24I did a little bit of research coming into the podcast bars.
05:27Hull City, one point outside the relegation zone.
05:30Seven league wins all season, 16 league losses, 30 points from 32.
05:3532 goals scored, which is the second lowest in the division.
05:39In terms of goals conceded, though, 43, which some playoff teams actually have a similar record to that.
05:45I think Borough, Coventry, one win in the last five.
05:48What has happened this season compared to last?
05:51It's been a disaster.
05:52It's been an absolutely unmitigating disaster.
05:54If you think back 12 months when we came to the stadium,
05:58Liam Rossini was manager, Fabio Carvalho scored the winning goal.
06:01City were very much in and around the top six.
06:04Home form was a problem.
06:07And that was ultimately why they missed out in the final reckoning.
06:12And that's been kind of the Achilles heel over the last couple of years.
06:15And you look at the home form this season, two wins all season,
06:19the worst record in the championship by some distance.
06:24And I think only Morecambe, if memory serves, Morecambe and Carlisle are the only teams
06:30that have got worse home records in the entire 92.
06:34So that kind of is a bit of a backdrop.
06:35But yeah, look, obviously, it all went to pot kind of the back end of last season.
06:42The owner, Adjo Nailajela, decided that Liam Rossini wasn't the man for him to take the club forward,
06:48having finished seventh in the championship.
06:50And in fairness, they invested a lot.
06:51They spent a lot of money last year.
06:53The likes of Jadon Filagin, Fabio Carvalho came in on loan.
06:56Tyler Moulton came in on loan, as did Liam De Lappe.
07:00The club had Jacob Greaves, who came through the academy.
07:02All of those players now are playing in the Premier League.
07:07So they invested heavily.
07:09Last season was difficult in the sense that you've got the top four kind of ran away with the league.
07:14And it meant that the last couple of playoff places were kind of,
07:20there was a big clutch of teams.
07:22They ultimately missed out.
07:23So they ripped it up in the summer.
07:25All those loan players went back.
07:27They also lost the king kind of linchpins of the squad in terms of Jean-Michel Serre,
07:33moved on to sell.
07:34The Ozan Tufan, who on his day was unplayable, but admittedly very inconsistent.
07:39He went back to Turkey.
07:41Greaves, Filagin were sold for big money to Ipswich and Aston Villa, respectively.
07:47Obviously, Filagin since left Aston Villa to go back to Ipswich.
07:50Who wanted him in the first place?
07:52You know, Liam was given the bullet.
07:58And there was a kind of an initial shock and anger at that.
08:02But then I think some people came, decided that, you know, he missed out.
08:06Liam should have done better.
08:08Tim Walter was brought in with a lot of excitement about this promise of playing attacking football
08:13because the owner wanted a more attack-minded style than he got with,
08:16than he felt he got with Liam Messina.
08:18And it's fair to say that didn't work out.
08:22The summer was, recruitment in the summer was slow.
08:26I mean, I think they signed 17 players in total in the summer, of which two were free
08:32transfers after the window had closed in Stephen Alzatti and João Pedro.
08:37But I think the majority of those signs, 14 of them, came after the final pre-season game
08:42of the summer away at Reading, where they incidentally lost Ryan Longman, who dislocated
08:47his shoulder.
08:47And Longman had come back from a season at Millwall, was nowhere near the first team
08:54fold.
08:54And suddenly, because of that slow transfer business, he was thrust into the first team.
09:00They signed a lot of players.
09:03They then signed Liam Miller and Mohamed Bouloumi.
09:06Bouloumi was a deadline date signing.
09:08Miller came in just before that.
09:10Both of those did their ACLs within 10 days of each other, I think it was, two weeks.
09:16So they'd spent the best part of 10 million on those two wingers, and they were out of
09:20action for the season.
09:22Walter just didn't work.
09:24His kamikaze football was not great.
09:27He fell out with a lot of players.
09:29His style of management didn't really work.
09:33And he was sacked.
09:34Andy Dawson took a couple of games as caretaker charge, again caretaker charge.
09:39And then Ruben Saez came in in December.
09:43And he's changed a lot.
09:45He's made them more difficult to beat.
09:47They're more of what you'd class as a normal football team.
09:52But once again, the Achilles heel have not been able to score goals.
09:55And ultimately, teams are at the bottom because either they don't score enough or they concede
09:59too many.
09:59Concede too many.
10:00It's not rocket science.
10:01It's the same every season.
10:02The City have conceded a lot of goals.
10:05But as you pointed out just a minute ago, compared to everybody else at the bottom,
10:10defensively, they don't concede that many.
10:12Admittedly, the goals they concede are generally really bad, but they just don't score enough.
10:18There's only three or four games this season where they've scored more than two in a game.
10:21One was the game at Sheffield United a couple of weeks ago where they won 3-0.
10:26They've only ever won more than one game in a row once this season.
10:29That was back in the end of September, October, when Walter's team, they beat Stoke, they beat
10:36Cardiff and they beat QPR three games in a week.
10:41And it's been really poor since then.
10:44The whole thing has been an absolute, unmitigated disaster pretty much since the full-time whistle
10:49went at Plymouth on the final day last season.
10:51It's been a nightmare.
10:53Manager out, manager out.
10:55You know, they've signed, I think, 25 players since the end of last season.
11:00You know, it's kind of summed up for me, James, the fact that they signed Ryan Giles in January
11:06last year from Bruton on loan.
11:10That deal was an obligation to buy for £4 million.
11:14He was their only signing in the summer for quite a while before Cody Durame from Leeds.
11:19Giles barely played and when he did, he wasn't great.
11:23He's now been shipped off to Middlesbrough on loan and if he was to leave in the summer,
11:30because there's no obligation or clause for Bury to buy Giles, they're going to have to
11:34take a hit on him.
11:35And that kind of sums up just how haphazard the whole thing has been for the last few
11:40months and ultimately, they're in a relegation battle because of decisions that have been
11:44made and, you know, in the manager's office and some recruitment's been very good, but
11:49it's been all over the shop.
11:51You've got managers wanting players, you've got the owner has a big involvement, his
11:56recruitment team have a big involvement and it's just been a complete cluster you-know-what.
12:03Hopefully, by hook or by crook, they can survive this season.
12:05I think if they can survive, there'll be, you know, hopefully a much calmer summer where
12:10they can get their act together and be a bit more, be in a better place at the start of
12:18next season.
12:18But there's no guarantees they're going to stay up and because of the home form, you
12:21have to be worried.
12:23I have to say, I have to sympathise because Sunderland have definitely had this type of
12:28season before, whether it be in the Premier League.
12:31Yeah, the recruitment churn, the manager churn, it just all starts to add up and really
12:37gets the football club down.
12:39If we go back in time a little bit to Liam Rossini, and I always sort of preface when
12:43I ask these sorts of questions, but for me, I couldn't wrap my head around it, I still
12:48can't.
12:48I get the argument that Hull invested and perhaps he should have got in to the top
12:54six, but whenever I've been in Liam Rossini's press conferences, I've been struck by how
13:00good he was, how bright, how intelligent, how well he spoke with the media.
13:04I had him pegged as a really, really good, promising young manager in the Championship
13:09and that's the outsider's perspective.
13:11It's always very different, isn't it, when you're in the Hull City bubble and there's
13:16a different side to it.
13:17But that, to me, still, I just can't understand it, why you'd get rid of him.
13:21And that's it, as you've outlined, there's no guarantee that he would have done well
13:24this season with the recruitment churn, the loan players going back, all of that sort
13:28of stuff.
13:28But I just can't wrap my head around the second of Liam Rossini.
13:32I think they'd have been in a better place had Liam had stayed, recruitment-wise, because
13:36Liam had a big impact on the signings.
13:40Carvalho is one, Liam De Laat, just examples.
13:43Ultimately, when you've got an owner that is in charge and he's a very hands-on owner,
13:49he's involved in absolutely everything and with that comes good, with that, naturally,
13:55comes bad.
13:56And they had a bit of a falling out and a disagreement, the back end of the January
14:05window last year, when the club signed Ivo Pandor and he was a Croatian goalkeeper.
14:12He was a Croatian goalkeeper from Fortuna Sittard and he was a player that the owner
14:17and the owner's scouting team had watched and felt that he could come in and they felt
14:22that he was better than Ryan Awsop and the ownership group felt that Awsop was liable
14:29for some errors.
14:31And Liam and his goalkeeping coach, Barry Richardson, didn't agree.
14:36They didn't think that Pandor was championship ready, that Awsop was, and also Matt Ingram,
14:41who was the backup goalkeeper, were better value.
14:45So, that was kind of, that started things and then naturally, they were really poor
14:50at home.
14:50There was a couple of good wins, but at home they dropped so many points.
14:57Stoke, Birmingham, you know, there were so many times.
15:00I actually felt that season you should have beaten Sunderland on, I think it was Boxing
15:04Day, Jack Clarkson.
15:05Yeah, Jack Clarkson, yeah.
15:06I thought Hull City absolutely batted Sunderland and that sort of gave Michael Beale a bit
15:10of a state of execution at Sunderland.
15:12Yeah, it did, didn't it?
15:13Yeah, I thought Hull should have won that game.
15:16Yeah, there were so many of those games and that was symptomatic and I think the owner
15:19got fed up of it.
15:20I think he felt that with the investment in the squad, you know, when you look, and it
15:25is ridiculous, when you look at that team that Liam had last season, it is bonkers to
15:32think it didn't get in the playoffs.
15:33What Liam would say is, you know, the top four places were all taken care of and they
15:40were fighting with the likes of Norwich and West Brom for the final two and that is difficult.
15:45But City dropped so many points and it is, and ultimately, I think the owner decided
15:52that the level of, he felt with the quality of players that Liam had, the quality of football
15:57should have been a bit better.
15:59And look, you'll get, it's like anything else, isn't it, in football, there'll be those
16:04people that think the owner was right to get rid of Liam, given the investment and the
16:08fact he didn't get in the top six.
16:09And there'll be those people that said, well, City haven't, you know, bothered the top six
16:13for quite a while.
16:14Yes, they didn't get in it and yes, there was big investment, but they made massive
16:18progress.
16:19So, you know, the common sense thing of it would have been, for me, and this is just
16:23my opinion, what I think they should have done is Adrian and Liam should have sat down,
16:29thrashed out the differences, had a conversation and then if they decided at that point that
16:34that relationship was a workable, then go in a separate directions.
16:37But that didn't really happen.
16:39They should have, you know, when you finish seventh in the Championship and City had a
16:43very clear style of play, the recruitment was, I felt, was going in the right direction.
16:50They should have been looking to build on that and go again this season.
16:54But unfortunately, and ultimately, when you've got one guy in charge that pays the bills,
17:00essentially, it's his right to decide what he wants to do with the club.
17:05And he is a risk taker and some things work and some things don't and he decided to rip
17:10it up.
17:12And I think most people kind of thought Walter was a progressive appointment in terms of,
17:17although he'd never, although he didn't get Hamburg promoted from the second Bundesliga,
17:23you know, fans were kind of semi-optimistic, cautious because he's an unknown in this
17:31division.
17:32But it became very clear very quickly that Walter's approach just was not going to work
17:37in the Championship.
17:38Yes, there were going to be the odd result you got here and there.
17:42And some of the underlying stats, in fairness, weren't that bad, but he lost the fans very
17:47quickly.
17:48His treatment of some of the players was not great and ultimately paid a price.
17:53And unfortunately, you know, football's not, I think a lot of people trying to overcomplicate
17:59it and make it more scientific than it needs to be.
18:01But it's no surprise when you look, when you list all the change at Hull City after the
18:07end of last season, it's no surprise that the club are where they are because that level
18:12of churn of players, you know, I wonder how much of it was of last season was a hangover
18:17for the likes of, you know, kind of the stalwarts, Regan Slater, Alfie Jones, Louis Cauchon,
18:22McLaughlin, you know, really, really good Championship players that were massively pivotal
18:26last season.
18:27You know, constant change, you know, the team constantly changes from week to week.
18:32And we, you know, as I say, you know, they signed 17 players last summer.
18:37They signed another eight in January, you know, 12, including one or two young players
18:41went out in January.
18:43But it's just the squad's unrecognisable from where it was at the end of last season.
18:46And generally, I know in the Championship, when you've not got the benefit of parachute
18:50payments, generally clubs have to move players in, move players out.
18:53You rely a lot on lone players and they naturally move on unless you can keep one or two.
19:00So there is, I appreciate there is, at clubs like Hull City, there is going to be an element
19:06of turnover with players.
19:08But last summer just killed them.
19:11And obviously losing, they had losing Miller and Balumi with ACL injuries.
19:15Then you've had, they've never had a fully fit squad to pick from.
19:18They had, they signed Oscar Zambrano with a doping ban hanging over him.
19:23He's now got a 16-month suspension.
19:25Balumi and Miller are out.
19:27Charlie Hughes, they paid a lot of money for from Wigan, highly rated.
19:30He's, you know, been out for a couple of months.
19:33He missed a chunk at the start of the season with appendicitis.
19:37Casey Palmer's another one they've been without.
19:39They've just had all season.
19:41And invariably, when things start to go wrong, and I said this at the start, you know, I
19:44didn't, not trying to claim to be some kind of, you know, mystic meg or anything, but
19:49it was plainly obvious in the early weeks of the season that they were going to struggle.
19:53And I remember saying that they were sleepwalking towards the relegation battle if they didn't
19:56sort themselves out.
19:57And that was, you know, fairly early on.
19:59And it's proved to be the case, you know, as I say, it doesn't take a rocket scientist
20:03when you look at every, when you, when you factor in the whole kind of melting pot of
20:07what's going on, you know, it's not a surprise they are where they are.
20:11And you just got to hope, as I said before, that they can find enough points between now
20:15and the end of the season in the next 14 games to, you know, finish at least, at least
20:21one place above.
20:22If you could finish the season now, I think everybody associated with that football club
20:26would snap your hand off because they're a place above it.
20:29And ultimately, when you get into the summer, it doesn't matter whether you finish 15th
20:32or 20th.
20:33It doesn't really matter as long as you stay in that division and financially for the club,
20:37it would be crippling if they got relegated.
20:41The structure and the hierarchy at Hull C, it seems very at odds with Sunderland.
20:44I think there's a big contrast there because, well, we have Kirilui Dreyfus, who's obviously
20:49a very young football club owner.
20:51He has imprinted his stamp on Sunderland and he's absolutely made decisions that you can
20:55tell are his decisions.
20:56I think personally, the decision to sack Tony Mowbray was probably more on Kirilui Dreyfus.
21:01He does rear his head and make big decisions at times, but it's sort of a committee at
21:06Sunderland.
21:06You've got Stuart Harvey, who's your head of recruitment.
21:08You've got the Sporting Director, Christian Speakman.
21:10There's a big team, there's infrastructure there.
21:14Everybody sort of has the job and knows the role.
21:17That doesn't seem to be the case at Hull City at all at the moment.
21:21It's just a bit...
21:22Basically, you've got...
21:26If I use the word dictatorship, it sounds like really, really strong and it's not meant
21:32in the traditional sense of like a politician.
21:35But you basically, in Hull City, you have Adjo Nilijela, who is the owner.
21:42Then you've got...
21:42You had Tan Kesler, who was kind of Adjo's man on the side, if you like.
21:49When he bought the club, Tan was with him.
21:51Tan was kind of his eyes and ears.
21:54Originally, Tan was brought in to be direct...
21:56Before the takeover was completed, Tan was going to be Director of Football.
22:00That changed to Vice-Chairman.
22:01Tan then left back end of last year amid a myriad of mysteriousness, a lot of which
22:12cannot be reported just because it's for legal reasons.
22:17So, you know, that created instability.
22:21Lee Darmborough was the club's head of recruitment and had been very successful at the club.
22:27He left in May.
22:28He then went to join Stoke City.
22:30Jared Dublin, who was at Stoke City, left Stoke, eventually coming.
22:34And he was working with Tan in a kind of an unspecified role, if you like, for a period
22:40of time.
22:40But then when Tan left, Jared became Sporting Director.
22:44You've also got Mustafa and Mertan, who are kind of Adjun's Turkish recruitment people.
22:53There was Beri Pardo, who came in as he's now left.
22:58It's just...
22:59It sounds very much too many chiefs and that churn as well.
23:04The incomings, the exits, even in terms of the players as well.
23:08You need a bit of stability in a football club, don't you?
23:10Yeah, and basically Adjun is the decision-maker and he holds the purse strings.
23:17He has the direct line to the manager and that, again, has its benefits.
23:21Tim Walter really liked it.
23:22He really liked having that direct link with the owner.
23:26Some managers prefer...
23:27And so did Liam, to be fair.
23:31Liam didn't like other people meddling in.
23:32Liam liked being able to discuss direct with the owner and that can have its benefits.
23:36But equally, when an owner is so hands-on, that can also work against you as well.
23:41And look, it's difficult.
23:46It's difficult.
23:47And I think whoever you speak to, some people will say that Adjun should take a step back
23:51and let the football people deal with it.
23:55They've got good football people that have been at the club for quite a long time
23:58and know how English football works.
23:59And it is very different to how things work in Turkey.
24:03There would be some that say the system they've got works well.
24:06So sometimes you say, well, the truth kind of falls somewhere within the middle.
24:11But ultimately, they've got an owner that makes decisions.
24:15And when you've got an emotional owner that makes decisions,
24:20sometimes those decisions will backfire.
24:22And I think the longer it goes on, people will say that the Rossignol thing has backfired
24:27massively.
24:27When you look at the league table, you have to say it has.
24:31But what I would say is in Rubin Seyes, they've got a very, very astute, good manager.
24:39It's whether, and if he's given the time and they can stay up, I think he can be a success.
24:44It's whether he can get enough points between now and the end of the season to survive.
24:49They've been in every game.
24:50They've not been outplayed, apart from probably the Burnley game,
24:54where they were just blown to pieces in that first half.
24:56But it only ended 2-0.
24:59I was sat there at Turf Moor thinking after 20 minutes and they're 2-0 down,
25:02this could be anything.
25:03But they recovered.
25:04They could have got something.
25:07Goals is their problem.
25:08And there's a reason why they are averaging a goal a game.
25:13And that isn't good enough.
25:14And that has been the Achilles heel.
25:15And ultimately, that is every team at the bottom of the table struggles for goals.
25:19You look at the game last night and it's...
25:23So, Baz, we should probably talk about the game, actually.
25:25I think this has been, it feels like quite a cathartic podcast for you, generally.
25:29But we haven't touched on the game yet.
25:31What are your thoughts heading into Saturday's game?
25:34And I guess, you know, the injuries.
25:36Joe Gelhart as well joined Hull City in January.
25:40And Mason Burstow as well, that's still on the books, I believe.
25:43Just sort of wrap that all into one, if you can.
25:45Yeah, look, I think the form book would say it's going to be a home victory,
25:49isn't it? Sunderland haven't lost at home all season.
25:51Certainly in the league, I know the FA Cup, they lost to Stoke.
25:53But, look, you'd have to put it into the bracket if everybody expects a home win.
25:59But the championship is a funny one, isn't it?
26:01You know, nobody expected Hull City to go and win 3-0 at Sheffield United.
26:04So that is what they're going to have to channel, I think.
26:05That kind of, that ability that they showed there, that level of performance and resilience
26:12that they're going to need at the Stadium of Light.
26:15What impact Sunderland's defeat at Leeds United and the manner of it as well.
26:20I think maybe if Sunderland had lost 1-0, it may have felt a bit different.
26:25But given the timing of Leeds' comeback and that winning goal, what, four seconds from the end
26:31of added time, psychologically, what impact does that have on Sunderland?
26:36Only time will tell on that.
26:38But I think from City, they just have every game.
26:41It's a cliche, isn't it, at this stage of the season.
26:43But every game for them is a cup final.
26:45Ruben Saez has said on more than one occasion, every point for them is gold.
26:50You know, as I touched on before, the result last night at Luton, drawing 1-0 with Plymouth,
26:55keep City outside the bottom three.
26:58You know, Plymouth and Cardiff play at 12.30 on Saturday as well.
27:02And Derby down there play Millwall at 12.30.
27:05So there's some big games down there.
27:06But they've just got to go to wear side, believing that they can play.
27:11And look, on their day, they've got it in them.
27:15They've got good players.
27:17Their squad is better now for the January window.
27:19They've got options.
27:20You touched on Galhart.
27:21He's been good since he came in.
27:23You know, Matt Crooks has scored a couple of goals.
27:27You know, Kamara on his day is capable.
27:32You don't get any bad teams in the Championship.
27:34You know, the quality of it, I would say, probably Leeds aside,
27:40possibly Sheffield United, less so.
27:43But, you know, the quality, I think, this year is much of a muchness.
27:47I genuinely don't believe there's much difference between the teams in the top six
27:50and the bottom six, aside from consistency on any given day.
27:56City, Plymouth, you know, not so much Derby, but, you know, Portsmouth, the team, Cardiff.
28:03Everybody down there is capable of going and getting a result.
28:08As I say, that was summed up by the fact that Sheffield United hadn't lost at home
28:11all season.
28:12City go there and turn them over and win 3-0.
28:14And I think that it's going to need that type of performance on Saturday to get something.
28:21You would probably take a point in advance, but that isn't the manager's attitude.
28:25The manager's attitude is we go and we try and win wherever we go.
28:28You know, you touched on the four winning five, but away from home, they've won three
28:33out of four.
28:33If you flip it, you know, they won at Blackburn, they won at Millwall, they won at Sheffield
28:37United.
28:37Yes, they lost at Burnley, but pretty much everybody loses at Burnley.
28:40Certainly nobody scores at Burnley.
28:43And even if you get two penalties, you don't score at Burnley.
28:45So, you know, still a sore one that.
28:48Yeah, you can believe it.
28:49But I think, look, they've got to get something.
28:53They've only got 14 games to go.
28:55They've then got an absolutely huge game down in Cardiff on Tuesday and then Plymouth come
29:01a week following that because of the FA Cup.
29:05There's no game next weekend because they should have been playing Plymouth who have
29:08got Manchester City.
29:09And so, yeah, it's one of those games, isn't it?
29:13Everybody will say home banker, the whole city will go there believing that they can
29:17get something.
29:18And recently their record at the stadium and I, you know, won there last year.
29:22You've got the four four draws, not too far since.
29:25And they're going.
29:26But you've got to believe, haven't you?
29:28And if they don't believe, there's not a lot of point.
29:31And Gael Hart will be keen to show what he can do.
29:34And I'm sure Mason Burstow has not really done much since he came to Hull City, scored
29:39a couple of goals, was very close to going out on deadline day.
29:41But the manager decided he didn't want to let Mason go and particularly to Plymouth
29:46because he didn't want to strengthen a rival.
29:48Not sure Mason was that keen on going either, if I'm brutally honest.
29:52But yeah, look, it's the championship, isn't it?
29:55And nothing is off the table.
29:59Absolutely.
29:59Anything can happen.
30:00Well, Baz, thank you.
30:02Thank you very much for joining me.
30:03Really appreciate it.
30:04If you'd like to find out more about Hull City and the lead up to Sunderland's game
30:08against them on Saturday, the Hull Daily Mail and Baz is all over that.
30:12There's the podcast as well, Baz.
30:14Yeah, at the 1904 Club podcast.
30:16You can find that wherever you get your podcast from.
30:18Probably same place as you get this one from, actually, on YouTube.
30:22We'll, yeah, we'll have all the pre-match build up, all the coverage from the stadium
30:25and hopefully, no offence, but hopefully it's three points for Hull City and nothing for
30:29Sunderland.
30:29But I begrudgingly wish you well.
30:33Yeah, no, I wish you well as well, Baz.
30:35Yeah, Hull Daily Mail for all of the latest.
30:36Click on the podcast as well.
30:38Sunderland Echo for all of your latest Sunderland build up ahead of the game against Hull City.
30:42Thank you all for tuning in.
30:43Thanks to Baz for joining me and we'll see you next time.