安藤忠雄 青春トーク2025 2025年1月19日 ＃２「安藤忠雄×元大阪市長・橋下徹 前編」
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TVTranscript
00:00If I lose my current speed, I'll retire.
00:04It's no fun.
00:07Ando Tadao is a Japanese architect.
00:11He was born and raised in Osaka.
00:15He always surprises people with innovative ideas,
00:18and he is still making his name known from Osaka to the world.
00:24His life span is 100 years.
00:26He lives his youth like an unripe apple.
00:31Mr. Ando, who has a life of his own,
00:33talks with top runners from all over the world.
00:37Ando Tadao's Youth Talk.
00:41Mr. Toru Hashimoto, who used to be the mayor of Osaka, will appear this time.
00:46Osaka was seen as a little cheap, wasn't it?
00:50This is the first time in my life that I've had a coffee worth 10,000 yen.
00:55I'm going to lose a huge amount of profit if I make it public,
00:59so I'd like to have a public coffee.
01:02Mr. Ando and his friends talk
01:04and send an ale to you, who live a life of 100 years.
01:19Osaka, Japan
01:29In September last year,
01:31Grand Green Osaka opened in the middle of the city,
01:34in front of JR Osaka Station.
01:38This place is said to be the last city in Kansai.
01:41A vast green park was born here.
01:45Mr. Ando will talk about the new city design
01:48with his cultural device, VS, which he designed.
01:54I talked to Mr. Ando at his office a few months ago,
01:59and we talked about the future of Osaka,
02:04so I hope we can continue that conversation.
02:08Osaka, Japan
02:13The view from here doesn't seem to be Osaka.
02:18It's better than Liberopa.
02:20Everyone is against it.
02:22What did you think of the park?
02:25It was elected.
02:27It was all high-rise buildings.
02:30Like Shiodome in Tokyo.
02:33It was supposed to be all high-rise buildings,
02:36but I thought it would be different.
02:40I thought we needed green in the middle of the city,
02:44so I voted for it.
02:46Is it difficult to create a city with green?
02:49Green in the middle of the city.
02:51In the middle of the city,
02:54we need to do our best,
02:57including the local government and the economy.
02:59If we don't do our best,
03:02it will be like Shiodome.
03:05Osaka has both green and river.
03:11Now that I think about it,
03:14I don't think there are many parks like this.
03:19Until then, this was the land of Osaka,
03:22so only Osaka had money.
03:24That was the rule of the political system.
03:27I was the mayor,
03:30and Mr. Matsui was the governor.
03:33We decided to go all out.
03:36It's important to plan and dream
03:39when you're building a city,
03:43but at the end of the day,
03:46it's the power of politics and the government.
03:49I think it will affect the city.
03:53Is this 10,000 yen?
03:55Yes.
03:56What is this?
03:57It's 10,000 yen and 5 yen.
03:59It's like 10,000 yen.
04:01It's amazing.
04:03It's transparent and very clean.
04:06It's amazing.
04:08Please enjoy it.
04:12In Osaka, people thought it was cheap.
04:15Whether it's food or anything else,
04:17people thought it was cheap.
04:20But if you want to increase the value,
04:23there's a place like this that's a little expensive.
04:26Mr. Matsui, I don't know if I should say this,
04:29but how much is this 10,000 yen coffee?
04:3110,000 yen coffee?
04:33This is the best thing I've ever done in my life.
04:37But it's 10,000 yen.
04:40It's 10,000 yen.
04:42Cakes are expensive in Tokyo,
04:46but in Osaka, the price goes up
04:49depending on the space.
04:52The value goes up.
04:57The most difficult thing was money.
04:59At that time, there were a lot of voices
05:01saying,
05:03if we make this a park,
05:05we won't make any profit,
05:07and what about the money?
05:09But if you look around the world,
05:11if there's green in the center of the city,
05:14the price of the surrounding land goes up.
05:17In New York, for example,
05:19if there's green in the city,
05:21the price of the surrounding land goes up.
05:25It's the same in Central Park in New York.
05:28The price of the surrounding land goes up,
05:31and the fixed cost of living goes up.
05:34So right now,
05:36around Umekita 2-chome,
05:39the fixed cost of living goes up,
05:42and the fixed cost of living goes up,
05:45and the fixed cost of living goes up,
05:48and a lot of money is coming in from Osaka.
05:52The point is how the architects
05:55make the city in the direction of green.
05:58That's the most important point.
06:01Mr. Ando,
06:03how did you come up with the idea
06:06of the city and the direction of the city?
06:09There's a building in Sekisui, right?
06:12I was involved in the general planning.
06:15So I thought,
06:17let's make it green.
06:19At the time,
06:21I was wondering how to get there.
06:24You had to go through the underground.
06:27It was divided.
06:29This gate-shaped building
06:32doesn't exist in the world.
06:34It's like this.
06:36It's hard to build.
06:38It's like a tourist spot
06:41or a symbol for foreigners.
06:43The price goes up.
06:45It's a lot of money.
06:48There's a lot of green.
06:50You have to go through it.
06:52This green,
06:54this is a public square.
06:57At the time of the opening,
06:5930,000 or 40,000 people came a day.
07:02All the time.
07:04I made something
07:06that everyone wanted.
07:09If Hashimoto's team
07:11doesn't make what they want,
07:14they won't come to Osaka.
07:17I'm sure everyone was against it,
07:20but if you have the strength
07:23and courage of people's feelings,
07:26you can go this far.
07:29I'll say it again.
07:31If you make it half a park,
07:33you'll lose a lot of profit.
07:36Viewers,
07:38old people,
07:40and so on,
07:42come here.
07:45You did a good job.
07:47On the contrary,
07:49there was a strong voice
07:51to increase the green.
07:53It's not enough.
07:55There was a voice
07:57to increase the green.
07:59If you make it green,
08:01you'll run out of money,
08:03so build it.
08:05At the end,
08:07there was no reason
08:09or calculation.
08:11In the meeting,
08:13everyone said,
08:15increase the green,
08:17increase the buildings.
08:19It's just right
08:21to decide this.
08:23I think that's what happens
08:25when everyone discusses.
08:27You have to discuss.
08:29If you discuss,
08:31there are hotels and apartments.
08:33It's a great price.
08:35It's up.
08:37It's so expensive.
08:39It's a great value
08:41for everyone
08:43to make it green.
08:51This green,
08:53after a year,
08:55will be about 30 cm large.
08:57After two years,
08:59it will be about 60 cm large.
09:01After three years,
09:03it will be in the forest.
09:05Mr. Ando,
09:07did you do anything
09:09to increase the green?
09:11If I did something like that,
09:13everyone would say,
09:15that's fine.
09:17There are four rows
09:19of green in Midosuji.
09:21If there are six rows,
09:23a new world will be created.
09:25If a new world is created,
09:27there are people
09:29who want to take a step forward.
09:31What's surprising is
09:33that 30,000 people will come.
09:35It's interesting
09:37that so many people
09:39will come.
09:41In fact,
09:43many cities are
09:45building cities.
09:47People will come
09:49and say,
09:51they want a park.
09:53A park won't make money.
09:55It's not the time
09:57to say that.
09:59There was a fixed concept
10:01that a park
10:03should be green.
10:05Honestly,
10:07when I came to Chiju,
10:09many people were living
10:11in tents.
10:13I don't think
10:15many people
10:17got close to the park.
10:19In Tennoji Park,
10:21everyone was locked up
10:23and couldn't enter.
10:25But we made it green
10:27and made a profit.
10:29In the park,
10:31many businessmen
10:33are building restaurants.
10:35This is the first model
10:37in Osaka
10:39to make a profit
10:41from maintaining the park.
10:43In Osaka,
10:45restaurants are lined up
10:47and the park is green.
10:49The amount of tax
10:51that we have put in
10:53is enough
10:55to get money
10:57from businessmen.
10:59This is the first model
11:01to make a profit
11:03from maintaining the park.
11:05The dream of creating a city.
11:07We will talk about it
11:09next week.