#offtherecord #kashifabbasi #imrankhan #pti #raufkalasra #atherkazmi #fawadchaudhry #miftahismail #fahdhusain #muhammadalidurrani #pmshehbazsharif #establishment #asimmunir
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Fawad Chaudhry (Senior Leader)
- Miftah Ismail (Senior Leader)
- Muhammad Ali Durrani (Senior Leader)
- Rauf Klasra (Analyst)
- Ather Kazmi (Analyst)
- Fahd Husain (Analyst)
What was the biggest event of 2024? Was the election on February 8 surprising? - Experts' Analysis
"Election 2024 Mein Kiski Jeet Hoi Sab Ko Maloom Hai...", Experts' Reaction on Election 2024 Result
Heated Arguments Between Fawad Chaudhry, Miftah Ismail and Rauf Klasra
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Fawad Chaudhry (Senior Leader)
- Miftah Ismail (Senior Leader)
- Muhammad Ali Durrani (Senior Leader)
- Rauf Klasra (Analyst)
- Ather Kazmi (Analyst)
- Fahd Husain (Analyst)
What was the biggest event of 2024? Was the election on February 8 surprising? - Experts' Analysis
"Election 2024 Mein Kiski Jeet Hoi Sab Ko Maloom Hai...", Experts' Reaction on Election 2024 Result
Heated Arguments Between Fawad Chaudhry, Miftah Ismail and Rauf Klasra
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, viewers. You are watching Kashif Abbasi.
00:15Today is the last evening of 2024.
00:18A very eventful year has passed.
00:22In my memory, there are very few years that will match
00:28the events that have happened in the past year.
00:40Let's take a look at the big events that have happened.
00:47Where has our democracy reached in the past year?
00:51Because for the past 5-6 years, our democracy has been going through a downturn.
00:56A hybrid system.
00:58Politicians are becoming irrelevant.
01:02The government is less relevant.
01:06The government is making noise.
01:09But the opposition is more relevant.
01:12Just like in 2016-17-18, the target community is more relevant.
01:17Have we been able to bring this downturn to this level?
01:24People have been arrested from within the parliament.
01:27The parliament will impose restrictions on protests.
01:30Just like laws have been made in this assembly.
01:33The protest has been criminalized in Islamabad.
01:36The punishment was given for 3 years.
01:38The law that was made by the tribunals,
01:41that sitting judges will head the tribunal,
01:44has been changed because it no longer suits.
01:47The parliament passed the 26th amendment.
01:50These are the things that we will discuss in this program.
01:54We will review them in 2024.
01:56Fahad Hussain is with us.
01:58Thank you, Fahad.
01:59Athar Kazmi, thank you.
02:00Rauf Klaasar is with us.
02:02And three current and former politicians.
02:06Fawad Chaudhary is with us.
02:09Bifta Ismail, Muhammad Ali Durrani.
02:11We will take a political view on this.
02:13But Fahad, I think we were talking before the program started.
02:18The 8th of February election was the biggest event of the year.
02:21What was the most distinct thing?
02:23What was the most important thing in that election?
02:25I think the most distinct thing was that
02:28in that evening, there was a time when the dice was turned.
02:32And it was turned for everyone.
02:34Before that, there were many predictable things going on.
02:37We were all sitting in the studio.
02:39We were talking.
02:40The results were very different.
02:42There was a sense that this will happen.
02:44Suddenly, there was a point.
02:46Where there was a sudden change in power.
02:49And I think it happened in the whole of Pakistan.
02:51And after that, there was a point.
02:54And after that point, a new politics started in Pakistan.
02:58That was the key.
03:00There were two stories of that day.
03:05One was before 6 or 7.
03:07And one was after 7 or 8.
03:10But I would like to say,
03:13Mr. Aroof and our politicians, Mr. Durrani and Mr. Mifta,
03:17wasn't it surprising that Tariq-e-Insaaf did so well in the results?
03:23The results, as we will say later, were two stories of that day.
03:27Was it surprising for you?
03:29It was surprising for me and I think it was surprising for everyone.
03:32And I think it was surprising for Tariq-e-Insaaf as well.
03:36The traditional playbook of Pakistan was fully used.
03:42How do you win or lose in elections?
03:46In fact, it was more than that.
03:48Despite that, the result that started coming,
03:52I think the turning point was an absolute surprise.
03:56I think we have covered elections before.
03:58And you had an idea of where things were going.
04:02This time, I don't think I would have remembered
04:05that so many predictions, so many assessments, so many calculations,
04:09suddenly changed.
04:11Was it a first for you also, the results?
04:14And also, do you remember that day?
04:16The internet was shut down.
04:18And it was a political decision to shut down the internet at that time.
04:21The internet was shut down.
04:23Later, everything was shut down.
04:25You know, later in the evening.
04:27What was the one thing, Mr. Aroof, which stood out for you?
04:30I think that day was the most important day for me because of this.
04:35Mr. Fahad has used a very beautiful word.
04:38He said that it was a tough election.
04:41I remember which year the elections were held,
04:44and it was not a tough election.
04:46There were many years.
04:482013.
04:50You must remember in 2013 also.
04:52What did Mr. Zardari say at that time?
04:54It was Aroof's election.
04:55But, predictably, PM LNG won.
04:57I am saying the same thing.
04:59He was in the opposition.
05:012018 also.
05:03Predictably, because the management was pre-elected.
05:05Now, there are memory lapses.
05:07It is not a bad thing.
05:09It is a good thing.
05:11In 2018, if you don't forget certain things, you will be stressed all your life.
05:15It is important to forget certain things.
05:17Anyway, coming to the point.
05:19He always comes up with these interesting new insights into life.
05:23Interesting new insights into life.
05:25I agree with you.
05:27Okay, then. Thank you very much.
05:29Sir, what I mean to say is that RTS sat down.
05:31Do you remember?
05:33We heard it for the first time.
05:35In 2013, the management system sat down.
05:37In 2018, RTS sat down.
05:39In 2024, everything sat down.
05:41This is a beautiful statement.
05:43I am saying this because it sums up everything.
05:45Right from 1977 to the present.
05:49It can change its nature a little bit.
05:51But, it only works in 1920.
05:53Secondly, we have made this prediction many times in your shows.
05:55I am not saying anything wrong.
05:57I am not making fun of myself.
05:59In many shows, Ali is sitting.
06:01You have a cheetah like Ali Usman.
06:03When Nawaz Sharif was coming,
06:05I told him,
06:07there is only one way to beat Imran Khan.
06:09He should go straight from there.
06:11One jail is where Khan is sitting.
06:13The other is where Mr. Mian has been sitting for three months.
06:15With this narrative,
06:17Maryam Nawaz can go to the market or the field
06:19and say, Khan is in jail.
06:21My father was in jail for three to four months.
06:23They didn't do these things.
06:25Even then, these things were visible.
06:27So, this opposition,
06:29where Khan is in jail,
06:31and you came from London
06:33and sat in the airport
06:35and gave a speech,
06:37and gave a nap.
06:39But, this happened in 1918 also.
06:41Nawaz Sharif and Maryam,
06:43both were in jail.
06:45Both were in jail and still Punjab won.
06:47That was an incumbency factor.
06:49Punjab won the PML.
06:51The problem they were facing at that time,
06:53if you remember,
06:55this government was made by Mr. Budad.
06:57The majority of people were freed.
06:59They were included in the PTI.
07:01The PTI became a very thin majority.
07:05Otherwise, on the day of the election,
07:07the most seats were in the PML.
07:09The biggest problem they had,
07:11which they didn't counter,
07:13which was in favour of Mr. Khan,
07:15was the incumbency factor.
07:17Mr. Shahbaz Sharif has a government.
07:19He has been in jail for one and a half years.
07:21You are coming from London,
07:23you are famous, you have cases,
07:25you are getting a nap,
07:27you will come and win the election.
07:29I think in your program,
07:31I have said this a few times,
07:33that Mr. Khan has an edge over them.
07:35This is in your program,
07:37I am not saying anything like that.
07:39Mr. Nawaz Sharif,
07:41whoever he is with,
07:43he is coming with confidence.
07:45That was one of his points,
07:47which is why he lost.
07:49That is why it was not so surprising for me.
07:51Do you remember,
07:53I asked Mr. Ranat Sinha,
07:55and the anchor asked,
07:57sir, what are you saying?
07:59When you gave this answer to your worker,
08:01and do you remember,
08:03Hillary Clinton said,
08:05this is what happened.
08:07She lost the popular vote.
08:09The people said,
08:11Hillary will win,
08:13we don't need to go to the polls.
08:15I thought Hillary was a bad candidate.
08:17She won the popular vote.
08:19But the Democrats thought
08:21that Hillary will not be able to win.
08:23So it was obvious,
08:25Mr. Khan being in the jail,
08:27you have been in power for 1.5 years,
08:29it is expensive,
08:31the dollar has gone up by 300,
08:33things are not being managed.
08:35It was very expected.
08:37Mr. Khan had to take the vote.
08:39Again, it is my opinion.
08:41I will take the political opinion first.
08:43Mr. Durrani,
08:45it was a surprise for you,
08:47the election on 8th February.
08:49What was the result?
08:51I was surprised
08:53because before 8th February,
08:55I visited Punjab, South Punjab,
08:57and KTK.
08:59Because the people
09:01were not ready
09:03to accept anything.
09:05But this is the reality
09:07that the leaders
09:09who were ready to
09:11come to power at that time,
09:13could not understand.
09:15Like Mr. Klasra said,
09:17every election
09:19there used to be an incident.
09:21In the evening,
09:23the results used to be broken.
09:25We have not seen this for the first time.
09:27Mr. Durrani,
09:29I have brought Mr. Mifta
09:31in that debate.
09:33Mr. Mifta,
09:35it is so unfortunate
09:37that we have a normal thing
09:39that we say here.
09:41Elections are rigged in this country.
09:43How unfortunate can a country be?
09:45Mr. Mifta.
09:47Kashif, we have seen
09:49how unfortunate we are.
09:51We have seen the state of the country.
09:53But, I would like to
09:55continue what Mr. Fahad said
09:57and what Mr. Klasra said.
09:59The 8th February
10:01that the people did,
10:03they did it
10:05against their powers.
10:07In 2013,
10:09everybody expected
10:11Muslim League to win.
10:13The powers also wanted
10:15Muslim League to win.
10:17Muslim League won.
10:1919-20 was managed.
10:212-4 seats were managed.
10:23There was nothing much.
10:25In 2018,
10:27the people were prepared
10:29to support Imran Khan.
10:31At least the upper middle class
10:33and middle class powers.
10:35The people supported him.
10:37The difference of 19-20 was made
10:39by RTH.
10:41This time,
10:43Mr. Shahid and I
10:45did a poll in June-July.
10:47In that poll, we saw
10:49that Imran Khan's lead
10:51was 2-1 in North Punjab.
10:53In every Muslim League vote,
10:55Imran Khan was getting 2 votes.
10:57Imran Khan was leading
10:59in Central Punjab,
11:01West Punjab and South Punjab.
11:03He was leading in KP.
11:05We understood that
11:07Imran Khan will win.
11:09How many seats were you giving?
11:11What did you have in mind?
11:132 or 3 seats?
11:15We thought it was an easy majority.
11:17If you have 5-8 points
11:19in Central Punjab,
11:21because Central Punjab's voters
11:23are almost homogenous,
11:25you can win all the seats.
11:27You can win 60 seats
11:29with 5 points difference.
11:31We thought Imran Khan
11:33will win the elections.
11:35He tried a lot.
11:37There were a few things.
11:39Imran Khan was repressed
11:41in Punjab.
11:4320% of the Pakistani voters
11:45said that they don't know
11:47who they will vote for.
11:49The Pakistani voters knew
11:51that they will vote for PTI.
11:53People went to the survey
11:55and asked the shopkeepers.
11:57The shopkeepers said that
11:59they will vote for Imran Khan.
12:01In Karachi, I thought
12:03Imran Khan will win 15 seats.
12:05Actually, he won 20 seats.
12:07You are including Hyderabad as well.
12:09No, no.
12:11Imran Khan won 20 seats in Karachi.
12:13Out of 22 seats.
12:15Out of 22 seats,
12:17everyone says 19 seats.
12:19But a lot of people are saying
12:21that Imran Khan won 20 seats.
12:23MQM didn't even come second.
12:25Jamaat-e-Islam, People's Party,
12:27TLP didn't even come second.
12:29So Imran Khan won 20 seats in Karachi.
12:31But you also believe that
12:33the one who wins by losing
12:35is called a gambler in this country.
12:39You are saying this
12:41to be unfortunate.
12:43The opinion of the people
12:45was very different from that
12:47of the Muqtada.
12:49So on 8th February,
12:51a surprise was given to the Muqtada
12:53and on 9th February,
12:55they gave a surprise to the people.
12:57And the politics came to an end
12:59when Imran Khan came.
13:01Very well put.
13:03There were two surprises in elections.
13:05One was on 8th February
13:07and the other was on 9th February.
13:09This sentence can only be said
13:11by Dr. Muftah-e-Ismaili.
13:13What Mr. Rao is saying is true.
13:15But the Muslim League people
13:17were right.
13:19They won the elections
13:21but the people didn't win.
13:23The people defeated them.
13:25Was it an anti-establishment
13:27incumbency factor
13:29plus Imran Khan's popularity
13:31plus all the statements
13:33that Imran Khan has
13:35anti-America, anti-establishment,
13:37religion.
13:39We are in jail.
13:41What was the biggest reason?
13:43I don't think there is any point
13:45that you can negate.
13:47All those points were valid.
13:49It was all a bit of everything.
13:51But this election,
13:53in my opinion,
13:55was different from all the other elections.
13:57First of all, this Jamaat has no symbol.
13:59You didn't let this Jamaat
14:01hold any Jalsa.
14:03You didn't let this Jamaat
14:05hold any corner meeting.
14:07In the past, Nizam used to sit
14:09and RTS used to sit and so on.
14:11This time, Nizam had to stand up
14:13and everyone saw him standing up.
14:15He was forced to stand up
14:17to manage the elections.
14:19This election was completely different.
14:21What was the second difference?
14:23He fought in jail.
14:27That's a bit of everything also.
14:29In the past, the opposition
14:31was not like this.
14:33Twitter was silent for 6 months.
14:35But the 2018 election,
14:37the leadership of the opposition was in jail.
14:39Yes, they were in jail.
14:41But the statements,
14:43in my opinion,
14:45winning Punjab was a big achievement.
14:47Yes, they got their dividends.
14:49But the way Khan sir ran his campaign
14:51was a big difference.
14:53The second thing is that
14:55this issue is not limited to Imran Khan.
14:57In this election,
14:59one thing has become clear.
15:01The people have taken a democratic stance.
15:05And they are trying to get out of this.
15:07And the day they get up and sit down,
15:09the day will come.
15:11Are they still sitting?
15:13No, they are still sitting.
15:15If the system continues like this,
15:17the elections that the political parties
15:19are running,
15:21it is up to them
15:23how they will keep them in jail.
15:25Mr. Fawad,
15:27a lot of us thought
15:29that this was the biggest event
15:31of this year.
15:33According to the situation
15:35at that time,
15:37you also say that
15:39PTI's strategy was wrong
15:41after February 8.
15:43They could have done differently.
15:49The biggest mistake of PTI
15:51was that
15:53the first thing is that
15:5523-24
15:57were very bad years.
15:59To be fair with my personal belief,
16:01the atrocities that happened on us,
16:03the imprisonment,
16:05obviously,
16:07these years were very painful for us.
16:09Mr. Fawad,
16:11I said something in the opening.
16:13Let's start with that.
16:15Have you seen worse years than this?
16:17Or do you consider these to be
16:19the most toughest, roughest years
16:21politically, for democracy?
16:25Look,
16:27the truth is that
16:29we are facing
16:31the situation
16:33after General Jawaharlal Nehru.
16:35In MRD,
16:37it is said that
16:39there were a lot of atrocities.
16:41But,
16:43what is recorded
16:45after 1985,
16:47we have not seen
16:49such atrocities in Pakistan.
16:51Our generation has not seen such atrocities.
16:53So, definitely,
16:55and personally,
16:57we have been through a lot.
16:59Maybe that is why we are feeling worse.
17:01Obviously,
17:03I don't see anything different from this.
17:05I will ask about this later.
17:07But,
17:09was election a surprise, Mr. Fawad?
17:11Look,
17:13the result of the election,
17:15before that,
17:17I was not surprised.
17:19And you know,
17:21I was talking to you earlier,
17:23and I said that,
17:25actually, in my opinion,
17:27when the first election was held in Punjab,
17:29where 19 seats were vacant,
17:31out of 20 seats,
17:3315 were for PTA.
17:35We did an election campaign.
17:37I did a campaign with Mr. Khan.
17:39Out of 19 seats,
17:4118 were for PTA.
17:43You know the result change
17:45in two seats.
17:47But, from that,
17:49I realized that the next election
17:51will not be different.
17:53And, if Imran Khan gives a ticket to Khambe,
17:55he will win the election.
17:57Mr. Fawad, I remember your statement.
17:59You used to say,
18:01if Imran Khan gives a ticket to my driver,
18:03he will win the election.
18:05Fawad, do you remember?
18:07You know,
18:09I have said this many times before.
18:11Here too.
18:13And, after that,
18:15I was in jail.
18:17And, the day they took the ballot,
18:19and found out that it was scattered,
18:21no one would have known.
18:23That day, for 48 hours,
18:25I felt that this work has become difficult.
18:27If there is no ballot,
18:29who will vote for whom?
18:31But, on 9th,
18:33people threw it away.
18:35And, actually,
18:37I could see that they threw away 8th.
18:39And, on 9th, they changed all the results.
18:41Whatever happened in front of you.
18:43However, the biggest mistake,
18:45if you tell me,
18:47and I was with Mr. Khan two weeks ago,
18:49in jail, and he agreed with me.
18:51If PTI made the biggest mistake,
18:53on 9th, they did not go to Tehreek.
18:55And, whoever decided that
18:57on 9th, we are sitting in Parliament,
18:59Tehreek is not there,
19:01he stabbed PTI's political back.
19:03Because, that day,
19:05all MNA, MPS,
19:07they had to come out for themselves.
19:09Local leadership was present.
19:11And, that Tehreek,
19:13should have been run.
19:15And, by not running that Tehreek,
19:17PTI caused a severe loss to Imran Khan.
19:19And, also to their politics.
19:21They stabbed him.
19:23So, it was a very big mistake.
19:25You are saying that it was a political mistake.
19:27Now, I will...
19:29The election is over.
19:31This loss is for Adliya.
19:35See, as far as 26th amendment is concerned,
19:3726th amendment has
19:39punctured
19:41all four tyres of Adliya.
19:43At this time,
19:45Adliya can neither move forward,
19:47nor back.
19:49And, they never had a stepney.
19:51Yes, they never had a stepney.
19:53Adliya's condition
19:55at this time is such that
19:57without a head,
19:59they have turned
20:01a head into a stick.
20:03But, for all these actions,
20:05the one who is going to
20:07suffer the biggest loss
20:09is this government itself.
20:11And, for them,
20:13from the beginning, I thought that
20:15through this Adliya,
20:17the discrepancy of form 45 and 47
20:19will settle down
20:21with some respect
20:23and honour.
20:25And, the system will move forward.
20:27But, after this tyre puncture,
20:29at this time,
20:31for this government,
20:33a complete collapse is seen.
20:35And, when I look at the country at this time,
20:37I remember
20:39a couplet of Hassan Nisar
20:41that, in the face of calamity,
20:43eyes are not enough.
20:45If you hang upside down,
20:47then you will see straight.
20:49Everything has turned upside down.
20:51I would have asked the same question to Mr. Zafar.
20:53Adliya is hanging upside down.
20:55The democracy is also upside down.
20:57The politics is also upside down.
20:59And, the public is also upside down.
21:01He is saying that everything has turned upside down in this system.
21:03Look, it is a very clear thing
21:05that the strength of a Supreme Court,
21:07the role of a full court
21:09and the role of a Chief Justice,
21:11through which they
21:13were trapped in front of the executive,
21:15that is over now.
21:17Now, obviously,
21:19there are two aspects to it.
21:21One is that,
21:23how much is the fault of the judges
21:25in reaching the Supreme Court.
21:27That is also a debate.
21:29But, the end result of that
21:31is that,
21:33the ability of the Supreme Judiciary
21:35to keep the other institutions in check,
21:37if it is not over,
21:39then it is diluted.
21:41And, the executive's hand has become so heavy
21:43that now they can do whatever they want.
21:45I don't think the executive's hand is heavy.
21:47When it has to be used
21:49against the executive,
21:51then it is heavy.
21:53In fact, it is very heavy.
21:55Please elaborate on this.
21:57Look, the people who have to control,
21:59the control is in their hands.
22:01The remote is in the hands of the government.
22:03Who are you calling the executive?
22:05I will call the government the executive.
22:07Sir, the executive is my paper.
22:09Technically speaking,
22:11the government is the executive.
22:13I am actually talking in a different context.
22:15This remote...
22:17I am saying that,
22:19the executive is not in the hands of the government.
22:21I am talking to Mr. Fawad.
22:23No, you said that it is in the hands of the establishment.
22:25It is in the hands of the establishment.
22:27Because, they think that
22:29we have made this legislation.
22:31Mr. Fawad, this control
22:33is not in the hands of the government.
22:35When it is needed, it will not be in the hands of the government.
22:37Look,
22:39basically, the biggest problem
22:41of the 26th Amendment is that
22:43the foundation of the constitution,
22:45the separation of powers,
22:47has ended.
22:49Now, you tell me,
22:51the attorney general and the law minister,
22:53who cast two votes,
22:55who will make the bench,
22:57against whom their cases will go,
22:59the same attorney general
23:01will present himself in front of the bench
23:03and argue,
23:05who has appointed the judges.
23:07Now, you tell me,
23:09the executive or the establishment
23:11or the government,
23:13the judiciary has ended.
23:15If you ask any of your court reporters,
23:17in all the four high courts,
23:19and in Islamabad High Court,
23:21there is a race.
23:23All the senior judges are lobbying
23:25for me to become the Chief Justice.
23:27Now, Mr. Fawad,
23:29can you imagine what destruction
23:31will be there?
23:33There will be no anti-government.
23:35If I have to take a good appointment,
23:37there can be no anti-government.
23:39And the rest of the Supreme Court,
23:41that is a glorified session court.
23:43It is a very interesting discussion.
23:45We will be back after the break.
24:13The question is,
24:15in my opinion,
24:17how much is the judiciary's hand in reaching here?
24:19How did you give your beard
24:21to the parliament and the establishment?
24:23I will tell you three or four examples.
24:25When your Chief Justices or senior judges
24:27themselves start giving illegal decisions,
24:29the governments are very happy.
24:31The establishment is very happy
24:33that someone is doing illegal work
24:35and making illegal decisions.
24:37They get happy.
24:39Now, tell me,
24:41why couldn't these 20 people
24:43vote in Punjab?
24:45Was this a legal decision?
24:47Then,
24:49the current Chief Justice,
24:51Mr. Mansoor Shah,
24:53he made eight separate benches
24:55in Karachi,
24:57and said,
24:59we will sit down and implement
25:01what he said to the Election Commission.
25:03These were legal things
25:05on which the Chief Justice
25:07raised questions.
25:09You called someone.
25:11You sat down and made decisions
25:13on the basis of your whims.
25:15After that, the lettering started.
25:17You did the grouping yourself.
25:19You held each other's beards.
25:21The letters were old.
25:23After that, all these memes
25:25were made.
25:27When the establishment
25:29finds out about the judiciary,
25:31you are insulting each other.
25:33You are insulting each other.
25:35You are very bad with your judgment.
25:37Mr. Lashra, he is not a battalion.
25:39Judges are like this.
25:41They have different opinions.
25:43He is not a battalion
25:45that the Colonel said this.
25:47They don't have to be regimented.
25:49They don't have to be regimented,
25:51but they live within themselves.
25:53They don't have to be regimented.
25:55Sir, when you start lettering
25:57and leaking,
25:59I personally think
26:01that the bad place
26:03our system has come to,
26:05if you allow me,
26:07Mr. Fawad,
26:09I don't have patience.
26:11Let's end this.
26:13I am not saying that I will be harmed.
26:15The country will be harmed.
26:17The judiciary will be harmed
26:19if you lobby and make decisions
26:21on the basis of your whims.
26:23You have made many petitions
26:25that you don't want to implement.
26:27This is Pakistan.
26:29You have used Pakistan.
26:31What does Jahangir Trinidad say?
26:33General Faiz, Khan
26:35and other people have disqualified me.
26:37They say this.
26:39Who was Saqib Nisar at that time?
26:41So this will be the act of the judiciary.
26:43You will give weaknesses to the establishment,
26:45to the parliament.
26:47You will make wrong decisions.
26:49You will stop people from voting
26:51which was not your mandate.
26:53The government is looking for
26:55any weak point and we will climb on it.
26:57Sir, but bad decisions don't happen.
26:59I agree with you.
27:01I have a friend
27:03who is one of the most important
27:05judges of the judiciary.
27:07He is a receiving end.
27:09He said, this is a big injustice.
27:11Our friends have done a big injustice to us.
27:13I don't want to take names.
27:15I said, no one has done injustice to you.
27:17Your judiciary has done this injustice.
27:19As judges, where you should have
27:21stood up for judiciary.
27:23Your judges were on the other side.
27:25One said, make me the chief.
27:27I said, you can't blame us.
27:29I said, you can't blame outsiders.
27:31Your judges know which party
27:33and which government.
27:35It's all over.
27:37It's all over.
27:39Mr. Fawad, quick.
27:41I just want to add one line.
27:43The actual alimia of the judiciary
27:45and what Mr. Rahul Kalasa is saying
27:47is absolutely right.
27:49You are saying that the Supreme Court
27:51cannot promote harsh trading.
27:53We will discuss that later.
27:55The actual alimia in Pakistan
27:57is of the civil society, media
27:59and bar councils.
28:01They have a watchdog.
28:03There is no end to politics in the judiciary
28:05or anywhere else.
28:07People are like this.
28:09The watchdog is the civil society.
28:11There are bar councils,
28:13lawyers, media.
28:15When these organizations
28:17and people sat down,
28:19everyone got the permission
28:21to do whatever they wanted.
28:23They can take people away.
28:25This permission was already there.
28:27I think this is too much.
28:29This hybrid system
28:31has ruined it.
28:33Mr. Kashif,
28:35I have a specific question.
28:37Mr. Mifta should speak openly
28:39about what happened to him.
28:41Show some courage.
28:43What happened to him
28:45when he was arrested?
28:47Once he stood in the court
28:49and told the judges
28:51to interrogate him for two hours
28:53because it was necessary.
28:55Mr. Mifta, please.
28:59Mr. Kashif,
29:01the truth is that
29:03our judiciary
29:05used to make decisions
29:07against the executive
29:09along with the institution.
29:11We saw this in 2017.
29:13You removed Nawaz Sharif
29:15for no reason.
29:17You saw what Saqib Nisar
29:19did.
29:21The judiciary was also
29:23with him.
29:25The institution was also
29:27with him.
29:29But when the institution
29:31separated,
29:33our judiciary started
29:35fighting with the institution.
29:37After the 26th amendment,
29:39there is no concept of
29:41independence judiciary in Pakistan.
29:43The chief justice of the Supreme Court
29:45has become the judge
29:47of the Session Court.
29:49Mr. Mifta,
29:51you can change the Constitution
29:53Bench anytime.
29:55Mr. Mifta,
29:57the government has to decide
29:59which is the judge of our will.
30:01Then he will come
30:03and all the important decisions
30:05will be made.
30:07Let me disagree with
30:09what Mr. Fawad was saying.
30:11The judge should not make
30:13the actual decision
30:15out of his wisdom.
30:17Our judges have
30:19violated the constitution.
30:21Muneeb's constitution was
30:23violated.
30:25Mr. Bandyal's constitution
30:27was violated.
30:29Mr. Bandyal always
30:31supported PTI.
30:33So, the judges
30:35started fighting with each other.
30:37Mr. Fawad, I think
30:39Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
30:41disagree with you.
30:43The constitution says
30:45that the vote will be counted
30:47and it will be invalid.
30:49The judges have decided that
30:51the vote will not be counted.
30:53Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
30:55disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
30:57Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
30:59disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:01Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:03disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:05Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:07disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:09Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:11disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:13Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:15disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:17Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:19disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:21Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:23disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:25Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:27disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:29Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:31disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:33Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:35disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:37Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:39disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:41Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:43disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:45Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:47disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:49Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:51disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:53Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:55disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
31:57Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
31:59disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
32:01Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
32:03disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
32:05Mr. Mifta and Mr. Rauf
32:07disagreed with Mr. Bandyal.
32:09Mr. Rauf
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44:09Mr. Rauf
44:11Mr. Rauf
44:13Mr. Rauf
44:15Mr. Rauf
44:17Good bye