#internet #twitter #pmlngovt #nationalsecurity #peca #nationalsecurity
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar (Senior Leader)
- Usama Khilji (Columnist)
- Farieha Aziz (Journalist)
Pakistan Main Internet Ki Bandish Economy ko Billions Ka Loss ...Who is responsible?
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar (Senior Leader)
- Usama Khilji (Columnist)
- Farieha Aziz (Journalist)
Pakistan Main Internet Ki Bandish Economy ko Billions Ka Loss ...Who is responsible?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, you are watching Khabar Lahariya, I am Muhammad Malik.
00:16For the last two days, Mr. Khan's talks are going on, politics is also going on.
00:21But once again, internet, digital rights and new controls, all these talks are going on.
00:28If you look at the IT industry, then the Pakistan Software Association,
00:34House Association, PASHA, they say that if the internet is shut down for an hour,
00:41then there is a loss of $1 million if it is shut down for an hour.
00:45Here, you and I keep counting the hours and it is not ending.
00:48And another study, which has indicators from the World Bank,
00:53there are indicators from other organizations as well,
00:56according to that, there is a loss of $2.1 million, almost $2.2 million per hour.
01:02That is, there has been a loss of billions of rupees.
01:05The PIDE, Pakistan Institute of Development Economics,
01:09says that there is a loss of at least 1.3 billion a day, if there are disruptions and everything.
01:15And these are direct losses, there are indirect losses as well.
01:19Listen to the government, every other day there is a statement,
01:22that yes, there is growth in IT, but the PASHA people themselves are saying that
01:28now people are moving their businesses out of Pakistan.
01:31They are going to Dubai, they are going to other places, because they are not able to do it.
01:35And the biggest loss is not that what happened today or tomorrow,
01:39many of your long-term customers have left people.
01:42And the customer who goes once does not come back.
01:45And this government says that we have set a target of at least $15 billion.
01:49And look, 30% growth has come.
01:52But what is happening in the country at the moment, destruction has spread.
01:55And where everything is happening, there is a new authority being created every day in the name of national security.
02:00Now we are hearing that in PECA, the Pakistan Electronic Crime Act,
02:04which is already very strict and very draconian,
02:07now we are hearing about the establishment of a Digital Rights Protection Authority.
02:10And according to that, the rules that will be made,
02:13there can be a 5-year imprisonment on false news, a fine of 10 lakhs.
02:17The Punjab government has already enacted a scary law.
02:20One thing I want to make very clear before starting the program,
02:23people should be completely banned on false news,
02:26whether it is on social media or on mainstream media.
02:30Absolutely, there is no doubt about it.
02:33We are talking about abuse of power, how it will be misused,
02:38because in the past, there were very few laws that were bad to look at.
02:43Laws are usually good.
02:45But what is happening here, destruction is spreading.
02:48That is why we will talk about it.
02:50But what is the state of the IT industry now and what is the future?
02:53Because it seems that in the name of security, we are becoming a complete security state.
02:58There are national security rules that exist in the civilized world.
03:01There is a North Korea type, here it is North Korea.
03:04The situation is such that there may come a time when people like us,
03:09who are trying to do balanced journalism,
03:12will not have a place in Pakistan.
03:15And then the option will be that we will also go to London or Toronto or New York
03:20and there we will have to do one thing,
03:22sit there, abuse the government, abuse the army,
03:26praise Imran Khan and dollars will come.
03:29And 30-40 thousand dollars a month is fine.
03:31The government is forcing all the mainstream journalists to leave the country.
03:37Let's see how national security works and how it doesn't work.
03:41But let me introduce my guests.
03:44I am joined by Mr. Mustanar Sakhokar,
03:46ex-senator, lawyer, former advisor to the Prime Minister on Human Rights.
03:49Ms. Faria Aziz has joined us.
03:51She is a digital rights activist and co-founder of Bolo B.
03:54This is also an advocacy forum for digital rights.
03:57And Osama Kherji has joined us.
03:59He is also a digital rights activist.
04:02He is the director of Bolo B.
04:04He is also with Faria.
04:06But let me share a piece of news first.
04:09Because a lot of people have asked me questions.
04:12Yesterday we reported that a March-April type of conversation has started in Islamabad.
04:17Yesterday I said that Islamabad is a very cruel city.
04:20The rumors that spread here six months ago,
04:22become news after six months.
04:25And there is no such thing as a rumor in Islamabad.
04:27At best, it's a premature fact.
04:29This is the situation.
04:31And now it seems that the People's Party has become restless.
04:34And you saw earlier that I met Faisal Wawda.
04:38Faisal Wawda is also a friend of mine.
04:40And you know about all the connections.
04:42I meet him.
04:43I met Bilawal Bhutto.
04:45I met Bilawal Bhutto at the JUI.
04:47I met Mr. Murana.
04:49These are long meetings.
04:50But let's leave the rest.
04:52TLP, Tariq-e-Abaig-Pakistan, and the People's Party
04:55don't have any mutual respect.
04:57Except for a few mutual friends.
04:59And two ticket holders have joined there today.
05:03There are two ticket holders from Attock.
05:05And don't get me wrong.
05:06They were not joined by the Governor.
05:08Leave them alone.
05:10How can they join?
05:11Two TLP people have joined.
05:13And these are those people.
05:14One was number two in the last election.
05:16He had taken 45,000 votes.
05:18The other one had taken 27,000-28,000 votes.
05:20He was number two or number three.
05:22And there are reports that more TLP people will join.
05:26Why are TLP people suddenly joining the People's Party?
05:30And there are reports that on the 27th,
05:33when it will be the anniversary of
05:34Respected Shaheed Banerjee Bhutto,
05:36then it is possible that in God's grace,
05:38the speeches that will take place,
05:40you will also get an idea
05:42that if this National Unity cannot be formed,
05:45this Government,
05:47then are you leading a new campaign of National Unity without Bhutto?
05:51Because such a campaign will only take place
05:53if National Unity is formed.
05:55When National Unity becomes a Government.
05:57Then everyone will be there.
05:59There will be People's Party, JUI, PTI.
06:03And everyone can come.
06:04So very interesting developments are taking place.
06:06Anyway, we will talk about this later.
06:08Fariha, I will start with you.
06:10A few days ago, you wrote an article in Don.
06:12Then the editorials of Don came.
06:15No to arguments that fake news should be rubbed.
06:19And absolutely punishments should be given.
06:21Because our credibility is also ruined.
06:23When it is mainstream media or social media.
06:26All this is happening.
06:28Now, what do you people see?
06:30The losses of the internet.
06:32And sometimes there is a firewall.
06:34Sometimes there was a web management system.
06:36Sometimes we are listening to something.
06:38VPNs.
06:39And anyway, there are two Pakistanis.
06:41You and I cannot go to X.
06:43The Prime Minister also goes.
06:45All the ministers also go.
06:47And I heard that the Information Minister said.
06:49The IT Minister said in a program.
06:51See, that is due to diplomatic needs.
06:53So we allowed the Prime Minister.
06:55But I was surprised.
06:57Mariam Nawaz has just announced.
06:59Nawaz Sharif Internet City.
07:01That has also come to X.
07:03So this X is only for Pakistanis.
07:05X is rated for ordinary people.
07:07The rest is fine for everyone.
07:09So obviously.
07:11We are insects.
07:13We will live.
07:15These new laws are coming.
07:17And the state of the internet.
07:19You are professionals.
07:21How are you seeing it?
07:23It is getting worse.
07:25And these digital have's and have not's are being created.
07:27Here too.
07:29You are creating an atmosphere.
07:31Who has access.
07:33Who does not have.
07:35Sometimes of the platform.
07:37Sometimes of the internet.
07:39Now you see.
07:41The state of mobile data.
07:43When in everyday life.
07:45This thing is yours.
07:47Everyone uses it.
07:49Then you deprive people.
07:51And in an ad-hoc way.
07:53On the one hand, this whole thing is going on.
07:55They do not do anything.
07:57They do not give clarification.
07:59They are using these things themselves.
08:01Then they say.
08:03The claims of IT cities.
08:05What will you go to?
08:07The people who live here.
08:09They are having a difficult time.
08:11Especially when it comes to connectivity.
08:13And then the laws.
08:15We have seen how PICA was adopted.
08:17Digital protection and protection.
08:19This will not happen at all.
08:21You are creating authority.
08:23You can control it further.
08:25But the disinformation.
08:27The government sees it in a Trumpian way.
08:29Their lies.
08:31Or criticism of them.
08:33They are fake news.
08:35It spreads more.
08:37When you switch off the internet.
08:39The chances of verification.
08:41It becomes difficult for people.
08:43To reach the right news.
08:45They themselves cannot verify.
08:47Your fact-checking platforms.
08:49They are facing difficulties.
08:51That they can fact-check.
08:53This is what Bohran is creating.
08:55This is a self-created crisis.
08:57Osama, tell me.
08:59The government comes in every statement.
09:01No business.
09:03Tell me.
09:05Are people moving out?
09:07Pasha is saying.
09:09The government is saying.
09:11No one is moving out.
09:13Tell me.
09:15People are moving out.
09:17You talk to the government.
09:19What does the government tell you?
09:21No one tells us.
09:23It is happening.
09:25It will be fine in two months.
09:27It will be fine in three months.
09:29Mr. Wazir called it a fiber wall.
09:31It has become a fiber wall.
09:33First tell me.
09:35It should be stopped.
09:37Wrong news and everything.
09:39When the government lies.
09:41What is the solution?
09:43I remember on 22nd.
09:45There was a press release.
09:47The government said.
09:49We have shut down all the motorways.
09:51It was a Guinness World Record.
09:536 motorways were shut down.
09:55One of them did not work.
09:57Miraculously.
09:59If the government is lying.
10:01Is this not fake news?
10:03I think.
10:05Fake news is needed.
10:07The government is lying.
10:09The government is lying.
10:11I think.
10:13Why is there so much.
10:15Ill-intentioned.
10:17In their lawmaking.
10:19They want to investigate.
10:21Those who want to speak the truth.
10:23They call it fake news.
10:25We saw.
10:27What happened to you?
10:29When they tried to investigate.
10:31What is the situation in Pakistan?
10:33Are you leaving business?
10:35We know a lot of people.
10:37Who have left Pakistan.
10:39Or trying to go.
10:41To get out of here.
10:43The worst thing is.
10:45The investors.
10:47Who want to come to Pakistan.
10:49I spoke to many people from the embassy.
10:51Who told me.
10:53Their investors came.
10:55There is no situation here.
10:57To invest in IT.
10:59Investors.
11:01Are refusing to come to Pakistan.
11:03The situation is very serious.
11:05For the youth.
11:07All the work of the youth.
11:09Is related to the internet.
11:11The concern of the government.
11:13Is genuine.
11:15There is security issue.
11:17Terrorism on the spike.
11:19Terror funding.
11:21Tell me.
11:23Blocking X.
11:25How does it affect national security?
11:27Explain it to me.
11:29Leave the rest.
11:31There is a question from both of you.
11:33I want to bring in Mr. Muswa.
11:35What is the relation of blocking X.
11:37With national security?
11:39Those who have banned.
11:41You ask them.
11:43We do not know.
11:45X is a necessary platform.
11:47For political expression.
11:49For sharing information.
11:51There are many ways.
11:53To circumvent the block.
11:55It is a failed project.
11:57Everyone is using X.
11:59Through VPN.
12:01If VPN does not work.
12:03There are other technologies.
12:05To circumvent the ban.
12:07As long as people know.
12:09They will start using.
12:11Different ways.
12:13Technology changes every day.
12:15You cannot say.
12:17Nothing will happen.
12:19Money is being wasted.
12:21In such an infrastructure.
12:23To circumvent.
12:25There are many solutions.
12:27There is no room.
12:29To ban VPN.
12:31In the law.
12:33Models.
12:35Platforms.
12:37Through which.
12:39Fake news can spread.
12:41VPN will be blocked.
12:43There is no law.
12:45Billions of dollars.
12:47Investors are going to their places.
12:49They were auctioning 5G.
12:51I read the news.
12:53Consultants said.
12:55It will not happen.
12:57There are many.
12:59Net restrictions.
13:01Investors are worried.
13:03Come to national security.
13:05What.
13:07Take action against fake news.
13:09There is no problem.
13:11Internet ban.
13:13Slowdown.
13:15National security.
13:17Economic security.
13:19National security.
13:21You destroy the economy.
13:23It is not a luxury.
13:25It is a necessity.
13:27Internet connectivity.
13:29It is a necessity.
13:31You read the newspaper.
13:33You read the internet.
13:35Students have to buy something.
13:37Are all these people.
13:39Braindead?
13:41National security.
13:43We see the definition of national security.
13:45Changing every few years.
13:47The reason for changing the definition.
13:49Who is the favorite of the present.
13:51Who is the opponent of the present.
13:53According to that.
13:55National security keeps changing.
13:57We saw that time.
13:59When we.
14:01DGISPR.
14:03Press conferences.
14:05In circular circles.
14:07Pictures were shown.
14:09These people.
14:11Journalists and politicians.
14:13These people.
14:15They are.
14:17Defeating this country.
14:19They are.
14:21Creating national security problems.
14:23And then.
14:25We saw the situation changing.
14:27This national security.
14:29Seeing everything from a security lens.
14:31Is the real misfortune of Pakistan.
14:33Here.
14:35In this country.
14:37There is no business.
14:39Without security.
14:41If you want to open a bank in this country.
14:43If you want to do a big business in this country.
14:45Then you will need.
14:47NOCs.
14:49You will need NOCs.
14:51If you are a government employee.
14:53If you want to progress.
14:55For that you need NOCs from there.
14:57So a whole security state.
14:59Is the model of making this country North Korea.
15:01On which work is being done gradually.
15:03And unfortunately.
15:05We are politicians.
15:07We are ready to play this game.
15:09We are ready to play this game.
15:11The law that we are discussing.
15:13Which era did it come in?
15:15It came in Nawaz Sharif's era.
15:17It came in 2016.
15:19Even then he was told not to bring this law.
15:21It will be used on you.
15:23She did not listen.
15:25And then it happened like that.
15:27Then came the era of Imran Khan.
15:29They tried to make it more strict.
15:31May God bless.
15:33Islamabad High Court.
15:35They blew it.
15:37So we.
15:39We are not paying attention to this.
15:41Everyone wants to make an authority.
15:43Everyone wants to make an authority.
15:45Then in the era of Imran Khan.
15:47Pakistan Media Authority.
15:49We used to call him Fouad.
15:51Then in May.
15:53National Cyber Crime and Investigation Authority.
15:55National Cyber Crime and Investigation Authority.
15:57National security will be fine.
15:59National security will be fine.
16:01Then in October its rules were repealed.
16:03Now we have Digital Rights Protection Authority.
16:05Now we have Digital Rights Protection Authority.
16:07And I remember.
16:09They made a tribunal appellant.
16:11High Court judge and equivalent.
16:13There will be a journalist.
16:15There will be an engineer.
16:17There will be a software.
16:19There will be no courts.
16:21You can do it arbitrarily.
16:23The most terrifying thing we are hearing about draft.
16:25The fences of 26 acres will be non-available.
16:27There will be no bail.
16:29Non-compoundable.
16:31Cognisable.
16:33Cognisable means.
16:35You can rest immediately.
16:37You can cut the paper and rest.
16:39You will give clarification later.
16:41The government.
16:43Exactly a week ago.
16:45Exactly a week ago.
16:47A working journalist.
16:49Matiullah Jaan.
16:51And Saqib Bashir.
16:53Was picked up from the car parking of PIMS hospital.
16:55For not being able to investigate.
16:57What really happened.
16:59It is expected that.
17:01We will trust the government.
17:03That they will not misuse this law.
17:05What kind of world are we living in?
17:07And when the executive.
17:09Will have control of these tribunals.
17:11The laws brought in Punjab.
17:13Are terrifying laws.
17:15And the executive.
17:17Tribunals.
17:19They will evaluate their performance.
17:21They will also investigate.
17:23That within a year.
17:25How was your performance.
17:27How was your performance.
17:29How was your performance.
17:31How was your performance.
17:33How was your performance.
17:35How was your performance.
17:37How was your performance.
17:39How was your performance.
17:41How was your performance.
17:43How was your performance.
17:45How was your performance.
17:47How was your performance.
17:49How was your performance.
17:51How was your performance.
17:53How was your performance.
17:55They talk about it.
17:57If you bring such laws today.
17:59Then when the next time.
18:01Your GSP plus application.
18:03Will be discussed.
18:05Or its renewal will be discussed.
18:07Will these things not come under consideration.
18:09So this mentality.
18:11That we do not want to give freedom of expression.
18:13We have to shut people up.
18:15Do not allow them to criticize.
18:17If you do not misuse here.
18:19No one has an objection to fake news.
18:21Look in front of us.
18:23Look in front of us.
18:25Look in front of us.
18:27Look in front of us.
18:29Look in front of us.
18:31Look in front of us.
18:33Look in front of us.
18:35Look in front of us.
18:37Look in front of us.
18:39Look in front of us.
18:41Look in front of us.
18:43Look in front of us.
18:45Look in front of us.
18:47Look in front of us.
18:49Look in front of us.
18:51So this is a draconian.
18:53Faria tell me this.
18:55In the talks of a government.
18:57It is said again and again.
18:59Firewall type things are in the whole world.
19:01And in varying degrees.
19:03But in the whole world.
19:05So if these things have come in Pakistan.
19:07What is the doomsday?
19:09Tell me one thing.
19:11There are filters everywhere in the name of security.
19:13There is no problem.
19:15You are an activist.
19:17When you talk to these people of the government.
19:19How are you justifying?
19:21How is everything happening?
19:23You must be giving some answers.
19:25What will they talk to us?
19:27We also read the same.
19:29What comes in the mainstream.
19:31They do not believe in dialogue with anyone.
19:33And secondly.
19:35They say contradictory things.
19:37They talk about national security.
19:39There is no problem of national security.
19:41There is a problem of creating obstacles.
19:43And just listen to yourself.
19:45If you don't listen to us, we will stop you.
19:47If you want to be China.
19:49If you want to be North Korea.
19:51These are the types of firewalls.
19:53These are not for cyber security.
19:55These are for information control and monitoring.
19:57Where are they?
19:59These are examples of the UK and US.
20:01I have fact-checked all these things.
20:03I am working with law clinics.
20:05To see where it happens.
20:07These are completely false things.
20:09We are given false references.
20:11There are also notice and take down systems.
20:13Court orders are also necessary there.
20:15There are due diligence systems.
20:17There are private platforms.
20:19The state does not do it.
20:21I told you where the state is doing it.
20:23North Korea and China.
20:25You are on paper.
20:27Democracy is on paper.
20:29There is no democracy in reality.
20:31You have given the executive the right to complete capture.
20:33You see.
20:35MS Farah talked in the mosque.
20:37The people who besiege their city.
20:39This is the same government.
20:41This is the same reality on the internet.
20:43You close it.
20:45You think you have achieved it.
20:47National security.
20:49Where is the security of the citizens?
20:51What stops you from closing it?
20:53Except that you create obstacles.
20:55These references do not exist in a rule of law regime.
20:57This is not a rule of law regime here.
20:59It is not sustainable here.
21:01That it continues.
21:03Neither for the economy.
21:05Rights do not matter to them anyway.
21:07Now you see.
21:09The authority comes to the authority.
21:11It is very important to capture them.
21:13Because they rely on lies.
21:15Whatever they keep in front of you.
21:17It is based on lies.
21:19It is rhetoric.
21:21There is nothing solid in it.
21:23Osama tell me.
21:25Let's take X for example.
21:27All platforms used to use X.
21:29I understand this.
21:31If I have tweeted something like this.
21:33I don't know.
21:35What do we call the note of X?
21:37Twitter was called tweet.
21:39Post.
21:41I have made such a post.
21:43Let them put defamation on me.
21:45Let them catch me.
21:47Is there any reason to close X?
21:49Is there any logical explanation?
21:51Because the Prime Minister is using it.
21:53The Prime Minister is using it.
21:55The ministers are using it.
21:57The big government officials are using it.
21:59It feels like they are making fun of us.
22:01We can use it.
22:03You can't.
22:05Tell me from the perspective of national security.
22:07I really want national security to be protected.
22:09If there is any protection.
22:11Please tell us.
22:13Is it right or wrong?
22:15Mr. Mustafa asked a very good question.
22:17What is the definition of national security?
22:19Who defines it?
22:21We have seen in the past.
22:23The definition keeps changing.
22:25The new internal enemies.
22:27They are internet savvy.
22:29They use X.
22:31They raise their voice.
22:33We have seen since 2011.
22:35When the Arab Spring Revolution came in 2011.
22:37In the Arab countries.
22:39They used social media.
22:41To raise their voice against oppression.
22:43And to exercise their rights.
22:45And to exercise their rights.
22:47And to exercise their rights.
22:49We see the same here.
22:51After the election.
22:53When there was a lot of talk about rigging the election.
22:55On X.
22:57Then we saw that a commissioner held a press conference.
22:59Then the evidence of rigging came on X.
23:01Then on 17th February.
23:03X was shut down.
23:05We see the same here.
23:07The periphery regions.
23:09The people of Balochistan.
23:11Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
23:13The people of other areas.
23:15They raise their voices.
23:17I understand X.
23:19Why is it shutting down?
23:21What is the benefit of slowing down the internet?
23:23Is it unavoidable?
23:25When the firewalls and VPNs.
23:27Put their control.
23:29Because of that it slows down.
23:31What is the benefit of slowing down the government?
23:33We have noticed this trend.
23:35Whenever there is a call for protest.
23:37The internet slows down a lot.
23:39On that day.
23:41You cannot send your voice notes.
23:43Or videos or pictures.
23:45And on the same day.
23:47YouTube or Instagram or Tik Tok.
23:49Slow down a lot.
23:51We don't have transparency.
23:53It has nothing to do with those things.
23:55It has nothing to do with.
23:57Web management system is being upgraded.
23:59It has nothing to do with.
24:01Firewalls have been installed.
24:03But bugs are being removed.
24:05In China.
24:07It is not smooth.
24:09These are all excuses.
24:11Technically there is no reason.
24:13To slow down the internet.
24:15These are all political decisions.
24:19Absolutely.
24:21A deliberate effort is being made.
24:23To slow down the internet.
24:25So that people do not use it effectively.
24:27Let's take a break.
24:29I am leaving a question for you.
24:31The real failure of the government.
24:33Is that they could not make a counter narrative.
24:35They could not make an answerable narrative.
24:37Against PTI.
24:39And Imran Khan.
24:41Their anger is on people.
24:43And digital platforms.
24:45Let's talk about this.
24:47Let's take a break.
24:49Stay with us.
24:51Welcome back.
24:53Before the break.
24:55Usama pointed out.
24:57Technically there is no reason.
24:59To slow down the internet.
25:01It is all about.
25:03Blocking the internet.
25:05Ram Shah Jahangir.
25:07Wrote a very good article.
25:09On 22nd August 2024.
25:11He said.
25:13Web management system.
25:15Is being upgraded.
25:17Since 2023.
25:19PTA acknowledged this.
25:21He said.
25:23In 2018.
25:25There was a company called Sandvine.
25:27It is a very controversial company.
25:29It has Israeli links.
25:31It has deep packet inspection technology.
25:33DPI.
25:35Any traffic coming from VPN.
25:37Can be blocked.
25:39Can be stopped.
25:41Packet dropping.
25:43Rate limit reduction.
25:45Surveillance.
25:47What is coming and going.
25:49What is the content.
25:51It can complete blocking of websites.
25:53It can do VPN whitelisting.
25:55This technology is there.
25:57If you want to fight.
25:59Terrorism.
26:01Cyber security issues.
26:03They already have this technology.
26:05Government has it.
26:07This company specializes in these countries.
26:09Where there is such strictness.
26:11They have sold to Azerbaijan.
26:13Turkey.
26:15Iran.
26:17Government has sources of identification.
26:19They know.
26:21Today there is technology.
26:23What you have written.
26:25What I have said.
26:27Is there any justification?
26:29As far as terrorism is concerned.
26:31When things are limited.
26:33To the purpose of terrorism.
26:35No one has any objection.
26:37If there are technologies.
26:39We have seen in the past.
26:41Many such technologies.
26:43As a result of these technologies.
26:45People have been apprehended.
26:47Their sleeper cells.
26:49They were also broken.
26:51Our intelligence agencies.
26:53Even reached them.
26:55But the problem starts from here.
26:57When you start using all this.
26:59To suppress a political narrative.
27:01Now if the government.
27:03Has nothing to give a narrative.
27:05If they have.
27:07To give a good story.
27:09To accept in the public.
27:11If they themselves are dumb.
27:13They want us to become deaf.
27:15Now this cannot happen.
27:17Now if you try to do this.
27:19Then there are other ways.
27:21Here you were saying.
27:23Meth is being smuggled with Starlink.
27:25Today I read in the newspaper.
27:27I shared with you during the break.
27:29Four and a half billion dollars.
27:31Four and a half billion dollars.
27:33Six hundred kilos of meth.
27:35In India.
27:37In the last two days it has been caught.
27:39The same is happening in Ukraine.
27:41So in this era.
27:43And you try to understand.
27:45That the most user.
27:47In digital platforms.
27:49The most engaged.
27:51Is the youth.
27:53Now what message are you giving.
27:55To that youth.
27:57That you can vent your anger.
27:59Where you can vent out.
28:01When you put restrictions on such things.
28:03On those avenues.
28:05Then what will people do?
28:07The way will come out.
28:09But they should.
28:11Focus on their statements.
28:13If they themselves are unacceptable.
28:15If they don't have legitimacy.
28:17And to hide their flaws.
28:19They are harming the rest.
28:21I have just told you.
28:23Deep packet inspection technology.
28:25The entire web manager system.
28:27What is right.
28:29What Ramsha has written.
28:31Then the government has all the ability.
28:33To intercept.
28:35Who is saying what.
28:37Which group is not doing what.
28:39So all these things we are hearing.
28:41Is it all a story?
28:45In 2018.
28:47The notifications were also present.
28:49It was acquired.
28:51After that.
28:53At the beginning of the year.
28:55It was said that it was being upgraded.
28:57The so-called firewall.
28:59Rumors heard.
29:01The web management system.
29:03The article has come.
29:05Now it seems.
29:07It has been acquired by a Chinese company.
29:09Because of Sanvine.
29:11There was a lot of noise on the international level.
29:13And in other countries.
29:15There is also a debate.
29:17That this surveillance technology.
29:19There should be export controls on it.
29:21Like on more ammunition.
29:23So on the internet and the global stage.
29:25These things are also being debated.
29:27At the moment.
29:29Sanvine system is not running.
29:31The contract expired in 2023.
29:33And Ramsha has written in her article.
29:35What you are talking about.
29:37That from May 9 to 11.
29:39A delegation has gone to China.
29:41And in this.
29:43He did everything on the firewall.
29:45And according to him.
29:47He paid 1.2 billion.
29:49For the initial software.
29:51He came back.
29:53The test failed.
29:55But everything is running again.
29:57Yes, absolutely.
29:59It is not your communication.
30:01But it is your metadata.
30:03Who is communicating with whom.
30:05On which website is it going.
30:07It is like a digital check post.
30:09Which vehicle is going.
30:11What is the vehicle number.
30:13It can be traced.
30:15All these things are being done.
30:17And we know from surveillance.
30:19That the open line is happening.
30:21The so-called lawful intercept management system.
30:23We found out from Islamabad High Court.
30:25And they know.
30:27They have been using technology a lot.
30:29But can you stop all this.
30:31Terrorism is not new.
30:33In 2014.
30:35There was APS.
30:37After that came the National Action Plan.
30:39We were told that PICA is needed.
30:41But what have we seen.
30:43The definition of a terrorist.
30:45Is it a journalist.
30:47Or a human rights activist.
30:49Or a lawyer.
30:51So we have to see.
30:53The statements of the government.
30:55And the things that are at their disposal.
30:57Even in the US.
30:59Which is considered a surveillance state.
31:01Congressional hearings have been reformed.
31:03Even in Germany.
31:05The intelligence agencies.
31:07They come in some area.
31:09There is oversight on them.
31:11Here the executive is free.
31:13The new authority is being formed.
31:15The chairman can be banned.
31:17Can be done inside.
31:19The issue of VPN.
31:21People are saying.
31:23Either there will be a company.
31:25Or there will be another.
31:27Someone is a freelancer.
31:29It is very difficult to register for that too.
31:31Any other person who wants a VPN.
31:33He is a student or a researcher.
31:35He may not be able to register a VPN.
31:37Please explain this to us.
31:39Yes.
31:41VPN is a virtual private network.
31:43To protect your privacy.
31:45You join a network.
31:47Here people are using VPN.
31:49To go to X.
31:51For basic things.
31:53When we give people.
31:55Digital security training.
31:57We tell them.
31:59When you join a public Wi-Fi.
32:01Be sure to use VPN.
32:03Because if you are on a Wi-Fi network.
32:05Different devices are connected.
32:07You can also hack them.
32:09You can also access them.
32:11For basic security.
32:13If I am using VPN.
32:15I am doing business.
32:17I am a freelancer.
32:19If someone is sitting in Thailand.
32:21By hacking.
32:23If there is no VPN.
32:25Is it easy to fly with a VPN?
32:27If there is no VPN.
32:29Then it will be easy for you to hack.
32:31It will be easy for you to track.
32:33But VPN gives you security.
32:35Your IP address.
32:37This benefits you.
32:39No one can surveil you.
32:41Foreign agencies.
32:43I want to take a break.
32:45I am leaving questions.
32:47In the statement of the government.
32:49There is honesty.
32:51We let them use VPN.
32:53So that terrorist organizations.
32:55Do not show their identity.
32:57Then the Prime Minister should not do it.
32:59How can he tweet on X?
33:01He asks after the break.
33:03I will be back.
33:05I will come back to you.
33:13Welcome back to the show.
33:15Mr. Mushtaq.
33:17I am giving you 30 seconds.
33:19What do you want to say?
33:21Let's start with you.
33:23The most important thing is.
33:25Whatever action the government takes.
33:27It is within the scope of the constitution.
33:29Article 14.
33:31Right to privacy.
33:33Article 19.
33:35Guarantee of freedom of speech.
33:37Article 19A.
33:39Right to access to information.
33:41So all this.
33:43Do not tell AIMNA.
33:45They will take everything.
33:47A lot has gone in the first 26.
33:49Do not remind AIMNA.
33:51It is a dangerous game.
33:53You cannot spy on anyone.
33:55Without a warrant.
33:57So keep all this in mind.
33:59Faria, your comment.
34:01We are moving towards.
34:03Digital authoritarianism.
34:05They have acquired tech tools.
34:07They have nothing to do with.
34:09Laws and rights.
34:11But if they think.
34:13We will give reference to other jurisdictions.
34:15They will lie.
34:17It is unfettered discretion.
34:19This will not happen.
34:21This is not their bona fide.
34:23So this is fake news.
34:25You are saying.
34:27The government itself.
34:29Mr. Mushtaq.
34:31I agree.
34:33We are moving towards.
34:35Digital authoritarianism.
34:37Economist's democracy index.
34:39In that.
34:41Pakistan was a struggling democracy.
34:43After that.
34:45Hybrid regime.
34:47And then authoritarianism.
34:49So that authoritarianism.
34:51Only requires.
34:53Those who speak.
34:55They are evil.
34:57Their tongue.
34:59Will give them a punch.
35:01Habib Jal-e-Marhum.
35:03Thank you very much.
35:05It is very simple.
35:07There is a debate.
35:09There is a debate.
35:11There is a difference of opinion.
35:13The truth is.
35:15One party has a strong narrative.
35:17And the other party.
35:19Does not have a narrative.
35:21They want to silence.
35:23Everyone.
35:25No one should speak.
35:27No one should listen.
35:29One by one.
35:31The law is being made.
35:33The definition keeps changing.
35:35The first time.
35:37The scheme came in 2010.
35:39In that.
35:41If they want to silence.
35:43Then it is fine.
35:45But there are no farms.
35:47Only wild grass.
35:49And thorny bushes.
35:51Allah Hafiz.