#OffTheRecord #ImranKhan #BushraBibi #KashifAbbasi #SalmanAkramRaja #PTI #PTIProtest #AliAminGandapur #PTIJalsa
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Salman Akram Raja PTI
- Abdul Moiz Jaferii (Lawyer)
Salman Akram Raja Told Inside Story of Meeting with Imran Khan - BIG NEWS
PTI announces nationwide protest - Will public trust PTI leadership? - Salman Akram's Reaction
PTI mein andarooni ikhtilafat ki wajah kya hai? - Salman Akram Raja told everything
Will former Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa return to Pakistan?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Salman Akram Raja PTI
- Abdul Moiz Jaferii (Lawyer)
Salman Akram Raja Told Inside Story of Meeting with Imran Khan - BIG NEWS
PTI announces nationwide protest - Will public trust PTI leadership? - Salman Akram's Reaction
PTI mein andarooni ikhtilafat ki wajah kya hai? - Salman Akram Raja told everything
Will former Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Isa return to Pakistan?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, dear viewers, you are watching the program with me, Kashif Abbasi.
00:15The 27th amendment has been passed.
00:18The government is saying that the 27th amendment will also be passed.
00:22Why will it be passed?
00:23What is left in the 26th amendment which has to be completed in the 27th amendment?
00:29Why was it passed with such limited exposure in the 26th amendment?
00:34Was it because they wanted to change the Chief Justice and get a new Chief Justice?
00:40Before that, something should be done to make the 27th amendment easier.
00:45A lot can be done behind this.
00:47But the government, the 26th amendment has not yet dried up,
00:52that the 27th amendment has been announced.
00:55On the other hand, there are a lot of issues of justice.
00:58Today, Aslam Gumban was removed from the party meeting.
01:03It is also being discussed whether Bush B and Aleema Khan should lead the party.
01:08There is a lot of debate.
01:09Salman Akhmed Raja, Secretary General of Pakistan, Tariq-e-Insaf.
01:12Salman, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
01:13Walaikum-as-salam.
01:14Before I go ahead, you met Imran Khan today.
01:18Has he grown a beard or has it been cut?
01:20No, no, today he was completely clean shaved.
01:22Last time we met on Friday night, he had a beard.
01:26How big was it?
01:27It was as big as a two-week beard.
01:29He was kept in such a condition,
01:31which he told the court and the journalists there,
01:36that animals are not kept like this.
01:40His electricity was switched off for five days.
01:43For ten days, he was not allowed out of his 8x8 cell for a minute.
01:49After that, for the next ten to twelve days,
01:51he was only allowed to go out for an hour and a half.
01:53He was not allowed to exercise.
01:55This was an extremely inhumane attitude.
01:59I met my wife, Bushra, in Peshawar the other day.
02:02She told me that when she sat down to pray,
02:05rats would fall on her from the roof.
02:07There was an open sewer in her room.
02:10Rats would come out of it and run into the room.
02:13He has been kept in such a condition.
02:15This is what he said.
02:16But he also said a lot of other things.
02:19I heard that he is ready for a case in the military court in Cairo.
02:23He said that he will not step back.
02:26What are the party's instructions?
02:28The real issue is the party's instructions.
02:30The party's instructions are that you have to fight on every level.
02:34You have to fight in the courts, you have to fight in the courts,
02:37but most importantly, you have to fight on the streets.
02:39You don't want to fight on the streets?
02:40No, we don't want to fight at all.
02:41We don't want to do anything important.
02:44So how do you define a fight on the streets?
02:46You will see in the next few days.
02:48You will see that this wave of protest will cover the whole country.
02:52If you do something stupid...
02:54But people...
02:55The last thing you said,
02:57because people talk, we go out and people talk.
03:01The day Ali Ameen left...
03:04Look, let me tell you...
03:06And the incidents that happened after that...
03:08Don't you trust people after that?
03:10Let me tell you.
03:12A group of people spread it on social media.
03:15Look, let me ask you a question.
03:17Ali Ameen, could you have come there and set up a camp at D-Chowk?
03:20Could you have organized a protest?
03:22Would you have stayed there for 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 10 hours?
03:25There was shelling there, the army was standing there,
03:27bullets were being fired, rubber bullets were being fired,
03:29live fire was also being fired.
03:31So coming there was a symbolic victory.
03:33That was the purpose.
03:34It was not a protest.
03:35But when you tell people to go out,
03:37you don't say that they will protest and go home.
03:40When you tell people to go out,
03:42people get ready to protest.
03:44And then you say, look, we didn't come here to protest.
03:47Look, this has been portrayed wrongly in the media.
03:51We didn't want the walls of Adiala to fall,
03:53when people say, let's go to Adiala.
03:55But your CM doesn't say anything like that.
03:57Look, now I am saying,
03:59we have to have a conversation that is connected to the truth.
04:02We are a very big political force in this country.
04:05And this country cannot tolerate
04:07that a building is built on the basis of fraud,
04:10fraud and fraud,
04:12while the people are restless,
04:14the people are on the streets.
04:16Being on the streets does not mean that we have to break everything.
04:19So it is up to the government.
04:21If it shells, if it fires bullets,
04:23then a situation will arise.
04:25I will tell you the statement of yesterday.
04:27I brought the newspaper,
04:29in which there is a statement of Ali Amin Sahib.
04:31He said that now we will go out,
04:33we will break the walls of this government.
04:36Look, it is enough for any country's conscience
04:39for people to go out on the streets,
04:41to protest.
04:43It is not that we have to attack a building,
04:45or we have to attack Adiala.
04:47Why do you come to Peshawar to protest?
04:49It will happen, it will happen.
04:51It will definitely happen.
04:53When you bring everybody to Islamabad,
04:55it looks as if it is more than just a protest.
04:57Look, what we have announced now,
04:59our next big meeting will be in Peshawar,
05:01the whole of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
05:03we will come out of it.
05:05And it is up to all the provincial governments
05:07not to do the work
05:09in which there is cancer,
05:11in which you legally have a right
05:13to protest,
05:15to stop it,
05:17to shell, to catch people,
05:19to break houses.
05:21All this is happening.
05:23Despite this, people are standing.
05:25Today I had a very powerful meeting
05:27with the parliamentary party
05:29of the PTI,
05:31with the MNAs.
05:33You will see that these people have
05:35endured everything.
05:37These people are standing in their place,
05:39they have endured all kinds of violence.
05:41How many people are standing,
05:43and how many have been shaken?
05:45Look, in my opinion,
05:47more than two or three have not been shaken.
05:49The rest are standing.
05:51Was that your tweet,
05:53in which your heart was broken,
05:55Zain Qureshi was written?
05:57No, not at all.
05:59Was he alone?
06:01Look, he came to the meeting,
06:03then for some reason,
06:05he went out for a while.
06:07Is it because he was issued a show cause?
06:09Look, it may be his decision,
06:11but it is not like that.
06:13But look, the show cause is obvious.
06:15Those who are against the show cause,
06:17they will have to answer.
06:19We will not hide anyone.
06:21There has to be a reason,
06:23which you are thinking,
06:25that it is Dr. Zarka,
06:27who did not vote against the party's instructions,
06:31but whose contact with the party
06:33was cut off.
06:35For four, five, six days,
06:37his contact was not there.
06:39He is being asked,
06:41why did you cut off your contact?
06:43He will answer that.
06:45A senior person from your party
06:47told me about a senator.
06:49He said, I contacted him first.
06:51He said, my son has gone,
06:53I am with him.
06:55I told him,
06:57what is happening?
06:59Then,
07:01because of this,
07:03there was no doubt,
07:05but I was convinced,
07:07that these people are those
07:09who will vote against the party.
07:11There was no such issue,
07:13which was being discussed.
07:15All these things will be put
07:17in front of those people,
07:19to whom we have issued a show cause.
07:21But this is true,
07:23we have asked him,
07:25what happened?
07:27Where is Zain Qureshi?
07:29We have also issued a show cause to him.
07:31What is your personal view?
07:33I will not give a personal view,
07:35because I will be in that committee,
07:37which will decide.
07:39We will listen to him,
07:41and then decide.
07:43He has already listened to you.
07:45His statement will be written,
07:47and whatever he says,
07:49when we call him,
07:51he will say,
07:53I am not broken.
07:55No, I did not say that.
07:57I said, when he comes,
07:59we will listen to him.
08:01We will not be lenient to anyone.
08:03We will not save some people,
08:05and we will not kill some people.
08:07Whatever happens,
08:09we will look at it with transparency,
08:11and then decide.
08:13Did you talk to Imran Khan
08:15about these people?
08:17No, but it is clear,
08:19the people who voted,
08:21the people who were given
08:23a show cause notice,
08:25we will decide.
08:27If someone has been forced
08:29to vote,
08:31we will see what the situation was.
08:33We will see what the human factor
08:35was.
08:37But if we feel,
08:39this is just an excuse,
08:41as you pointed out,
08:43then the decision will be
08:45what it should be.
08:47We will see.
08:49No, not economically.
08:51We will see,
08:53if there is an issue.
08:55There is nothing to see
08:57if someone took money.
08:59People from your party
09:01are giving numbers,
09:0340 crores, 26 crores.
09:05I am sure you have gone
09:07up to 3 billion.
09:09We are proud of our party
09:11that they took 3 billion.
09:13No, they did not.
09:15But many have.
09:17And our people are
09:19taking firm steps.
09:21But 8-10 people were
09:23in the back-up.
09:25No, this is a lie.
09:27This is a lie.
09:29This is a bluff.
09:31I have just come
09:33from the assembly.
09:35The people's party
09:37MLA was saying
09:39we had 50.
09:41This is a matter of pride.
09:43This is a bluff.
09:45The real number
09:47will be revealed.
09:49Will you publicize it?
09:51We will decide.
09:53But the real thing
09:55that is worth mentioning
09:57is that despite all this
09:59greed, people did not
10:01break apart.
10:03And the people who
10:05are standing,
10:07I present them with
10:09sincerity.
10:11They have already
10:13taken root.
10:15No matter how much
10:17they try,
10:19but this country
10:21is moving forward.
10:23And PTI is fighting this war.
10:25I have no other power
10:27other than the small
10:29parties that will support us.
10:31But in the big parties,
10:33PTI has raised this issue.
10:35The issue of rights,
10:37the issue of constitution,
10:39there was news that
10:41Bushra Bibi has called
10:43a meeting of PTI.
10:45If she calls,
10:47what do you think
10:49will happen?
10:51No, I don't think she will call.
10:53She has nothing to do with politics.
10:55Imran Khan has repeatedly said
10:57that she is a domestic woman.
10:59She has no political character.
11:01Today, Khan's sisters,
11:03Aleema Bibi and Uzma Bibi
11:05were present in Odiala.
11:07All the conversations
11:09were about family,
11:11personal matters,
11:13about food,
11:15what you eat,
11:17which should be
11:19of a sister and brother.
11:21But I have heard that
11:23a political meeting
11:25has been called.
11:27When it was about
11:29election tickets,
11:31there was some disagreement
11:33in the party.
11:35Will you say no
11:37to a political meeting?
11:39If she has any opinion,
11:41she will definitely
11:43consider it.
11:45But I don't think
11:47she will lead
11:49the party
11:51as per her wishes.
11:53I personally know
11:55a few PTI people.
11:57They say that the leadership
11:59of the party is so divided
12:01that the family should lead.
12:03There will be some disagreement
12:05with the party leadership.
12:07There is no such disagreement.
12:09Because your credibility
12:11will also be a big problem.
12:13These are people's words.
12:15It is more on social media.
12:17It is not within the party.
12:19But after D-Chalk,
12:21after October 4,
12:23a very organized statement
12:25was made.
12:27Those statements
12:29are easily wasted
12:31It is not 2014
12:33that you have been sitting
12:35for a year and a half
12:37or 150 days.
12:39There was no FIR
12:41or shelling.
12:43But when this happens,
12:45how do you expect
12:47someone to stand
12:49or sit there?
12:51They arrested
12:53Ms. Uzma and Ms. Aleema
12:55in 20 seconds.
12:57But how do you expect
12:59Mr. Ali Ameen
13:01Mr. Ali Ameen said
13:03on 22nd October
13:05that he will close
13:07the whole of Pakistan.
13:09People expect
13:11that your political party
13:13will walk the talk.
13:15Listen to what he said.
13:17We will block
13:19the whole of Pakistan.
13:21Imran Khan was not released.
13:23If our military
13:25is not returned,
13:27then we will have
13:29a final call.
13:31When will the final call
13:33happen?
13:35There is a moment
13:37when the whole nation
13:39stands up.
13:41This is not a matter
13:43of PTI.
13:45This is a matter
13:47of our fundamental
13:49rights.
13:51You can present
13:53yourself tomorrow.
13:55It is very easy here.
13:57You can say
13:59that you have
14:01harmed the state
14:03of Pakistan
14:05or the army of Pakistan.
14:07Kashif Abbasi
14:09will be in front of
14:11a military court tomorrow.
14:13This is a situation
14:15that you will have
14:17to face.
14:19A journalist, a lawyer,
14:21a writer,
14:23will not be able
14:25to do anything.
14:27We are all
14:29Pakistanis.
14:31Whatever happens
14:33with the law
14:35of Pakistan
14:37will affect us
14:39and our future generations.
14:41All these things
14:43have their place
14:45in political wisdom.
14:47We are not saying
14:49that this will happen tomorrow.
14:51Are you against the 26th amendment?
14:53Absolutely against it.
14:55Or shouldn't Afridi
14:57be the Chief Justice?
14:59The 26th amendment
15:01should not have been
15:03implemented.
15:05If the 26th amendment
15:07had not been implemented,
15:09would the first amendment
15:11have been implemented?
15:13Absolutely.
15:15The first amendment
15:17would have been against
15:19the 26th amendment.
15:21The 26th amendment
15:23could not have been implemented
15:25if there had not been
15:27an election on 8th February.
15:29At least you took away
15:31the SC seats from us
15:33and gave them to other people
15:35through fraud.
15:37You are not giving
15:39a committed answer.
15:41The party is against
15:43the 26th amendment
15:45but you are not saying
15:47anything about
15:49the appointment of
15:51Justice Yair Afridi.
15:53Today, Mr. Imran Khan
15:55said very clearly
15:57that whoever voted
15:59in favour of the 26th amendment
16:01has betrayed Pakistan.
16:03Mr. Hamid Khan
16:05did a press conference
16:07on the basis of
16:09seniority principles.
16:11Then he said that
16:13Rana Sanaullah is now
16:15telling who will sit
16:17on the bench.
16:19I will tell you later
16:21that he was afraid
16:23that the government
16:25would not decide
16:27who will sit on the benches.
16:29If Vukla had started
16:31this movement,
16:33he would have
16:35voted against
16:37Justice Yair Afridi.
16:39Rana Sanaullah said
16:41that Justice Yair Afridi
16:43spoils justice.
16:45By spoiling justice,
16:47I mean the freedom of justice
16:49from the administration.
16:51When the administration
16:53is dominated by the judiciary,
16:55the administration
16:57and the government
16:59will have a majority.
17:01In the Suleimani committee,
17:03you made it very clear
17:05that there will always be
17:07a majority of the government.
17:09You said that there will be
17:11proportionate representation
17:13based on the membership
17:15in the houses.
17:17So you said that the government
17:19will decide who will be
17:21the Chief Justice.
17:23Not just the three senior most,
17:25but also those who are
17:27on the 8th position
17:29This is the purpose of this amendment.
17:31If I have to take an important position,
17:33I will not vote against the government.
17:35The government has to decide
17:37whether I want to be the Chief Justice or not.
17:39Even though I am on the 8th position,
17:41if I am in the top 3 next year,
17:43I will be obedient from today.
17:45Those who are in the top 3,
17:47should bow their heads.
17:49This was their purpose.
17:51Rana is a political advisor
17:53to the Prime Minister of Pakistan.
17:55He is saying that
17:57these judges should not be in the same court.
17:59What did he say?
18:27Chief Justice of Pakistan,
18:29Senior Puni Judge,
18:31and the judge on the 3rd position.
18:33The senior should never
18:35be the Chief Justice
18:37because he has to
18:39head the commission.
18:41He should head the commission
18:43but should not give his name
18:45in the court.
18:47The government will decide
18:49but the controversy
18:51that Rana is talking about,
18:53there are two types of judges.
18:55How will this strengthen
18:57the judiciary?
18:59No, it will not.
19:01This is the purpose.
19:03This is an attack on the judiciary.
19:05This is why I am saying
19:07in every press conference
19:09that this is an attack
19:11on the people of Pakistan.
19:13This is an attack on the people.
19:15The people have to take their cases
19:17and close someone's job
19:19illegally,
19:21close a channel,
19:23and if a journalist is arrested,
19:25then who goes to the court
19:27with a petition?
19:29We go to the court.
19:31This is an attack on us.
19:33Why don't we understand?
19:35Why do we think this is a PTI matter?
19:37I am surprised at the level
19:39of intelligence and rights
19:41of this country.
19:43They don't like your party.
19:45But they don't like our party.
19:47Do they like their freedom or not?
19:49Your fascism was
19:51disliked, which should have been.
19:53But they like your fascism.
19:55This is amazing.
19:57But this is not happening with us.
19:59This is happening with you.
20:01But you tell me,
20:03what do you think?
20:05What type of journalist
20:07will you be after this amendment?
20:09Will you bow your head in front of the government
20:11and in front of the judiciary?
20:13We know about those journalists
20:15who are the mouthpiece of the government
20:17and the judiciary.
20:19I am thinking.
20:23Unfortunately,
20:25I don't know any other job.
20:27Then you will have to be on the streets with us.
20:29This is not a PTI matter.
20:31This is a matter of your identity.
20:33This is a matter of your boys
20:35in this room.
20:37This is a matter of their livelihood.
20:39What kind of journalism will be there in this country?
20:41What kind of channels will there be?
20:43I think we should not do this.
20:45We have a role to play
20:47when we sit here.
20:49As you mentioned about the military courts,
20:51many people opposed the trial of civilians.
20:53But it was happening
20:55during your government.
20:57It was also said not to do it.
20:59It was also said not to do it.
21:01We opposed it then too.
21:03We know our past
21:05and our situation
21:07under what pressure.
21:09No government in this country
21:11makes independent decisions.
21:13No legislature in this country
21:15makes independent decisions.
21:17I think you always have a choice.
21:19You have to decide
21:21whether you want to compromise
21:23or support your government.
21:25I assure you that
21:27if I am in a party
21:29and that party tells me
21:31to support the 26th amendment,
21:33I will resign immediately
21:35and announce it to you.
21:37This is the right choice.
21:39Our friends who voted
21:41for the 26th amendment
21:43and those who endorsed
21:45your government,
21:47your opponents were put in jail.
21:49I condemn it.
21:51I condemn its announcement.
21:53I say that it should not happen again.
21:55What happened was wrong.
21:57What is happening today is also wrong.
21:59If it is wrong tomorrow,
22:01we will stand against it.
22:03Any party can make a mistake.
22:05A reference was sent against Qazi Faisal
22:07on political grounds.
22:09Everything happened on someone's request
22:11If you want freedom,
22:13you need freedom from this pressure.
22:15Every community and government
22:17will have to free themselves.
22:19Ali Amin Gandapur
22:21took very strong positions
22:23and your party is still taking positions
22:25that I.I. Afridi
22:27has been appointed as Chief Justice
22:29and is against the seniority principle.
22:31We will protest.
22:33But he himself was sitting
22:35in the first place
22:37in that demonstration.
22:39It is important
22:41to include the Aqais.
22:43They have gone there
22:45not as PTI ministers,
22:47but as Khyber Pakhtunkhwa
22:49ministers.
22:51Sir, in your chair,
22:53it was a matter of war.
22:55India had to attack.
22:57He said, no, I don't want to sit
22:59with them.
23:01I know that
23:03your president
23:05did not go
23:07for the oath-taking.
23:09He called in sick.
23:11He said, I am sick.
23:13I will not take this oath.
23:15This has been happening in your party.
23:17What are you saying that the Aqais
23:19are needed?
23:21The invitation goes to the Aqais
23:23that the Supreme Court
23:25is a court of loyalty.
23:27The Supreme Court is there.
23:29We have to fight the case of life
23:31and death in front of this court.
23:33We can object as much as we want.
23:35We have set up a court
23:37and appointed
23:39a Chief Justice.
23:43It is not possible
23:45that we boycott the Chief Justice
23:47and the court.
23:49Our life and death
23:51is related to this.
23:53We will fight the case.
23:55When we are told
23:57to participate as an Aqai,
23:59we are not participating
24:01as PTI,
24:03we are participating
24:05as a government.
24:23Qazi Faiz Insaf said
24:25that we follow the law and the paper.
24:27God knows what is the truth.
24:29What is the truth
24:31the public knows
24:33and everyone sees.
24:35The Chief Justice said
24:37that if we incite Qazi Faiz,
24:39it will be very difficult
24:41to escape his anger.
24:43In the past few months,
24:45the public has seen
24:47that it is not possible
24:49to escape his anger.
24:51He gave many decisions
24:53and everything happened
24:55according to the time and situation.
24:57Justice Mansoor Ali Shah
24:59said that the Chief Justice
25:01Qazi Faiz Insaf
25:03gave his head in the sand
25:05like a cock.
25:07He had nothing to do
25:09with the external pressure
25:11and pressure on the court.
25:13Qazi Faiz Insaf
25:15sold the broken relations
25:17between the colleagues
25:19in the court.
25:21Because of this,
25:23there will be scars
25:25on the court.
25:27This will be remembered
25:29as a good behavior
25:31in which there was no
25:33modesty or humility.
25:35If we go ahead and see
25:37many other cases of Qazi Faiz
25:39Insaf's era,
25:41we saw that many decisions
25:43were accepted on his decisions
25:45and many decisions
25:47were criticized.
25:49The Supreme Court
25:51had ordered elections
25:53in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Punjab
25:55and despite the rejection
25:57of the Election Commission,
25:59he remained silent.
26:01On 13 January,
26:03Justice Mansoor Ali Shah
26:05was deprived of his election
26:07badge. Because of his decisions,
26:09the Election Commission
26:11refused to consider PTI
26:13as a political party.
26:15During the election campaign,
26:17there was a case of not getting
26:19a level playing field.
26:21They did not see any evidence.
26:23They sent their message
26:25to the people.
26:27Because of the same decision,
26:29justice was deprived
26:31of special sessions.
26:33He remained silent
26:35even on the attacks on
26:37journalism and journalists.
26:39When PTI people were being
26:41arrested, when this case
26:43came before Qazi,
26:45he said a very historical sentence.
26:47It is not his, it was written
26:49or said by someone else,
26:51if you can't take the heat,
26:53don't go in the kitchen.
26:55If you can't tolerate the heat,
26:57then please don't go in the kitchen.
26:59He was justifying
27:01what was happening with them.
27:03A letter was written
27:05by the judges of Islamabad High Court.
27:07Whoever came in front of Qazi,
27:09whoever was accused,
27:11who did Qazi complain to?
27:13The one who was actually accused.
27:15Qazi used to criticize
27:17the Sadaati Ordinance a lot.
27:19But he used his own
27:21ordinance for his own benefit.
27:23Practice and procedure.
27:25Justice Muneeb had to be removed
27:27from the committee.
27:29The ordinance was brought,
27:31and within an hour,
27:33he made another judge
27:35a part of the committee.
27:37Arshad Sharif,
27:39our journalist friend,
27:41had his own notice case.
27:43He could not be appointed
27:45for a year.
27:47Qazi's bench
27:49rejected the
27:51Lahore High Court's
27:53election tribunal.
27:55The second case of 63A
27:57was also very interesting.
27:59There was a lot of criticism.
28:01The government found a way
28:03to make money.
28:05This was also possible
28:07with the same practice and procedure.
28:09The 26th amendment was approved.
28:11I don't want to say anything
28:13about the timing and intention.
28:15The majority of the special sessions
28:17given on 7 July
28:19could not be implemented
28:21for three and a half months.
28:23He was praised for a few decisions.
28:25In the past,
28:27he was praised for the
28:29Faizabad protest.
28:31He accepted the practice
28:33and procedure to reduce
28:35his powers.
28:37He started live news.
28:39Historically, from the Election Commission
28:41and the President,
28:43he kept away from
28:45social activism.
28:47We have Moiz Jafri with us.
28:49Let's talk to him.
28:51Assalam-o-Alaikum, Moiz Jafri.
28:53Assalam-o-Alaikum, sir.
28:55I read your article.
28:57When Qazi went to Lahore,
28:59there was a divisive opinion
29:01about Qazi.
29:03Political parties
29:05do not praise him.
29:07Qazi played the role
29:09of a true democrat.
29:11I read your article.
29:13A lot of people
29:15are criticizing Qazi.
29:17He has achieved nothing
29:19if we use the Punjabi word.
29:21I want to know
29:23about you.
29:25You are criticizing him.
29:27You have quoted a lot of his decisions.
29:29When we told you
29:31what he did,
29:33you quoted a lot of his decisions.
29:35There are a lot of questions
29:37about Qazi's decisions.
29:39Qazi was in power
29:41for 13 months.
29:47Thank you for the opportunity, Qazi.
29:49He must have said a lot of good things.
29:51The government is there
29:53to listen to him.
29:55We should
29:57criticize him.
29:59Qazi did
30:01what he did
30:03and did not do.
30:05I think this was
30:07Qazi's crime.
30:09He used to think of all of us as fools.
30:11I think
30:13there is not much to say about this.
30:15There is one thing
30:17that is proven by
30:19Qayyat-e-Sarai.
30:21In May,
30:23when Mansoor Ali Shah's
30:25bench reserve seat case
30:27was sent to the committee,
30:29the election commission's decision
30:31was terminated.
30:33The two-thirds majority
30:35of the people
30:37voted for Qayyat-e-Sarai.
30:39In June,
30:41Qayyat-e-Sarai
30:43decided to
30:45make a bench
30:47with no Chief Justice.
30:49The government
30:51is working on a
30:53permanent term
30:55for the next
30:57Chief Justice
30:59and all other Chief Justices.
31:01Qayyat-e-Sarai was
31:03a permanent term
31:05but the judge
31:07knew about it.
31:09He knew about it
31:11and also
31:13he knew that
31:15the people were short.
31:21Mr. Kashisahab,
31:23the 26th term
31:25is attempted once in September
31:27and the result is known.
31:29Mr. Tarar tries to convince us
31:31is a very good thing.
31:33His topic is now in front of everyone.
31:36After that, when Qazi sahib made the bench of 63A,
31:39at first, it was not able to be made.
31:41So the committee that was making it,
31:43the president changed its identity by making an ordinance.
31:46Then we thought that Qazi sahib will take care of his previous decision.
31:49And what he said in reference to the Qur'an,
31:53in reference to faith, that democracy and consensus is the right way.
31:57He will follow it and consult those three people who were the soul of the law.
32:03Within an hour, he removed Munir Bakhtar sahib from the ordinance committee
32:08and included another judge.
32:10And immediately after that, he filed the same case with history and that of 63A.
32:15And when the argument started on the case of 63A,
32:17he was told that sir, you have given a decision.
32:21With this decision, what you are going to do today,
32:23a constitutional amendment will be possible due to floor crossing.
32:27So Qazi sahib said at that time, in October now,
32:29which constitutional amendment? I don't even know about the constitutional amendment.
32:32Brother, the same constitutional amendment that you yourself were saying is going to happen in June.
32:37So all the other things have happened, Qazi sahib.
32:39But this is one such point.
32:41Yes.
32:42I would like to say that if you stop me at one point,
32:44that if you look at Qazi sahib in a year or two,
32:49he used to say again and again that he doesn't watch TV or he doesn't watch YouTube.
32:52Okay, he used to express surprise on many things.
32:56That it really happens.
32:58But later when he needed it,
33:00if Commissioner Pindi used to give a statement,
33:03then he also knew where the reporters had to come.
33:05And the reporters knew where Qazi sahib would meet.
33:07And what statement would be issued from there.
33:09And for that, Qazi sahib's video cameras were also ready.
33:12And then we saw many statements from his side,
33:15in which I felt that Qazi sahib knows everything.
33:19But Qazi sahib, you remember,
33:20he went to an Islamic university for two and a half hours.
33:23After the question and answer, he said,
33:24okay, this is going live.
33:25Every channel is showing this,
33:27when everyone knew that this has been going live for two and a half hours.
33:29So, he probably wanted to give this impression
33:33that he is a classical judge who doesn't watch TV or newspapers.
33:37But those who went out of Pakistan,
33:39do you think they will come back, Mr. Jafri?
33:43Or will they spend more time in Pakistan,
33:44or do you think they will spend more time outside?
33:48Sir, I don't want to comment on this,
33:51but I think that Qazi sahib has very little space in the world
33:55because of the supporters of PTI.
33:56Qazi sahib, I saw his positive side.
33:59I spoke to many people.
34:01Of course, I kept trying with many court reporters,
34:05or journalists, or lawyers,
34:08to look at the brighter side of his tenure
34:11as Chief Justice of Pakistan.
34:14The people who defend him,
34:15their sentence is somewhere here,
34:17that they did nothing against him.
34:20They kept going along with the letter of the law.
34:23Now, taking revenge was probably a wrong decision at that time.
34:26It shouldn't have been done at such a time.
34:28But the letter of the law says that if this is the case, then this is the case.
34:31So, even if they make a decision,
34:33the people who defend him say that they are getting closer to the letter of the law.
34:43Sir, this is a quote from the Bible
34:45that even the devil can quote scripture for his own cause.
34:47Even the devil can quote scripture for his own cause.
34:52So, I don't agree with the letter of the law.
34:56The letter of the law is not his job.
34:59His job is not as a clerk.
35:00His job is as a judge.
35:01And he was the biggest judge in the country.
35:03What is silver lining?
35:04What did he do better?
35:05I have written this in my article as well.
35:08One good thing that happened because of him
35:09is that there will never be a judge like Qazi Faiz Issa
35:12because he destroyed the dignity of such judges.
35:16For better or for worse,
35:19we will never have a proper Chief Justice of Pakistan
35:22because Qazi Faiz Issa destroyed the dignity of such judges.
35:26Yes, but while you say this,
35:30the change that he brought,
35:33out of curiosity,
35:35the government that will make a judge or a constitutional court,
35:41I have heard many people say that
35:47no one will send a Prime Minister home after this.
35:51How can they be so optimistic?
35:53I have often seen in the history of Pakistan
35:55that when a person sits on a chair,
35:57he knows where he will go.
35:59Otherwise, when the former Secretary of Laws became the Chief Justice,
36:03he made decisions against him,
36:05those who made him the Secretary of Laws
36:06or those who made him a judge.
36:08So, how does it work?
36:10Why do people think that now everything is set for us?
36:15Mr. Qazi, please give us a chance.
36:17Actually, such things happen
36:19when you build a system based on rejection and change.
36:23Under Article 26 of the Constitution,
36:24they have made the Chief Justice a subordinate of the executive system
36:28thinking that they will appoint their own people.
36:31And whenever this has happened,
36:32whether it has happened in the army,
36:34whether it has happened in the Chief Justice,
36:35whenever an undeserving person
36:37has been appointed for a reason other than his ability,
36:43we have seen his head turn,
36:45we have seen his loss,
36:47the whole country and institutions have borne his loss.
36:50What they are doing is illegal
36:52because it is an attack on the dignity and freedom of the court.
36:55A judge is not a judge if he is under the administration
36:58and then he is making judicial review and decision based on the same administration.
37:01This is one thing.
37:02But when you...
37:04So, when the government starts defending a judge,
37:08do you think this should be a moment of mourning for the Chief Justice?
37:12Or for that judge?
37:13Absolutely, sir.
37:17Thank you very much.
37:18Moiz Jafri was with us today.
37:19Let's take a break, viewers.
37:20We will be back after the break.
37:25Welcome back, viewers.
37:26If we want to strengthen democracy in this country,
37:28then institutions have to be strengthened.
37:30And that is why the most debate is on institutions.
37:33Democracy is only strengthened when the institutions are strengthened.
37:36Our problem is that our politicians
37:39in order to weaken these institutions and to strengthen themselves,
37:44cut down the same tree which is called democracy.
37:46And when democracy is lost,
37:49then they regret it together.
37:51May I leave now? Goodbye.