When Drake Maye should start & Rhamondre Stevenson interview | Pats Interference
The Athletic's quarterback guru Derrik Klassen joins the show to discuss Drake Maye's recent progress, the next checkpoints in his development and when Maye should start. Later, Andrew hosts another MailFan and welcomes Patriots running back Rhamondre Stevenson for a 4-minute drill interview.
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00:00Okay big episode today we have
00:14two guests as promised back
00:16earlier this summer I'm excited
00:17to talk with the guy directly
00:18in front of me but first we're
00:20going to tease reminder
00:21Stephenson's coming on the end
00:22of this episode another four
00:23minute drill football questions
00:25not football questions he was
00:27awesome- we have a new male fan
00:29segment haven't done one of
00:30those a while and of course
00:32Derek Clawson the aforementioned
00:33man in front of me quarterback
00:34expert to help us reset
00:35recalibrate the Drake make
00:36conversation which has got very
00:38interesting here especially
00:39locally the last couple of weeks
00:41but first some housekeeping
00:42number one I had a complete
00:44journalistic failure with
00:45reminder not asking about his
00:47viral moment with Steve Burton
00:48in one of the world's most
00:49awkward preseason interviews
00:50you will ever see he actually
00:52gave me shit for it for not
00:53asking afterwards up air but he
00:55was great number two small
00:56change of plans I'll be back
00:58recording Sunday with the 53
00:59man roster projection no talk
01:01about the preseason finale
01:02you'll watch it we'll discuss
01:03it but you want to know who
01:04makes the team we'll learn on
01:06Tuesday this will be my last
01:07and best guest number three we
01:09had a couple new reviews in
01:10Apple thank you couple more
01:12emails mostly positive but
01:14either way that feedback helps
01:16us grow and is always
01:17appreciated so please keep
01:19those coming you have a second
01:20Spotify Apple reviews ratings
01:22are always a big big help and-
01:24if today's episode sucks no it
01:26will not be our next guest
01:27fault there class and again as
01:28mentioned as far as the worst
01:29intros you've ever had and
01:30you've done plenty of shows
01:31where does that one right. No
01:34listen learning I was going to
01:35be on the same episode as
01:36Ramon de Stevenson is good
01:38enough for me I love that guy
01:39so I'm good he's a great dude
01:41all right there class in case
01:42you're not familiar with his
01:44work new co host of the
01:45athletic football show you have
01:47heard him on the media time show
01:48with letting seeing his work on
01:50bleacher report the thirty
01:51thirteen reception perception
01:53with Matt Harmon and back in
01:54the day as I found out very
01:55quickly. NFL spin zone where in
01:58twenty fourteen there were
01:59headlines like what's next for
02:00Brian Hoyer which I really
02:02appreciate it a time where we
02:04could all read and watch Brian
02:06Hoyer then NFL starter and
02:07wonder what's next for him and
02:09you explored it pretty well back
02:10in the day and if you thought
02:11about that piece in a while
02:13theater I probably have some
02:14headlines from back then on
02:16stuff that I've just I've
02:17written so many things now that
02:19I've forgotten what I've
02:20written I think if you ask me
02:21have I written about Brian
02:22Hoyer before I probably would
02:24have said no so I've it's almost
02:25news to me that that headline
02:26exists. Yeah no I have plenty of
02:29those and as someone who got his
02:30career started writing for SB
02:32nation specifically covering
02:34UConn football- with a lot of
02:36film review that is some
02:37depressing ass work let me tell
02:39you so I will not dig up any
02:40further headlines. Of yours to
02:42avoid anyone doing the same to
02:43me because it was long it was
02:45not good but hey we both- we
02:47made it so. Drake may. You and
02:49I are in the fan club I don't
02:50know where you're sitting in the
02:51hype train that was going long
02:53before he became a New England
02:54patriot. But I I appreciate your
02:57your work on quarterbacks it's
02:58always reasonable is rooted in
03:00good facts. Data obviously
03:02tape work people who don't
03:03follow you should QB- K. L. A.
03:06S. S. so I just want to zoom out
03:08first before you get into the
03:09money which- what are one or two
03:11things. When you hear people
03:13talk about Drake may you read
03:14them right about Drake may that
03:15you think are just missed as
03:16someone who spent a lot of time
03:18studying. Who he was in college
03:20and so far the little peaks we
03:21seen from him in the NFL. Yeah
03:24I would say the first thing is.
03:26It I it almost like the first
03:28thing anybody brought up with
03:29Drake may during the draft
03:30season- and even now is footwork.
03:33And the it was always a
03:34frustrating conversation to me
03:36because I think there are
03:37legitimate criticisms that you
03:38can have a Drake Mays footwork I
03:39think his specifically his
03:41drop back footwork like. Going
03:43one to two to three as soon as
03:44you get the ball and being in a
03:45clean position to throw a quick
03:46game throw a flat route throw.
03:48It's right whatever it is some
03:49something simple. He's not
03:51great at that but I think people
03:53kind of took that to think that
03:54the rest of his footwork was
03:55bad. But I just don't think that
03:57that's the case I think the
03:58longer he holds the ball the
03:59longer he develops in a play. He
04:01actually does do a really good
04:02job of resetting in the pocket
04:03understanding where he needs to
04:04move getting himself into a
04:06better throwing position. I
04:07think you saw that a lot at UNC-
04:10and especially behind a bad
04:11offensive line that kind of made
04:12him have to move around and get
04:13off his spot a lot. I think you
04:15actually saw him play pretty in
04:16control. The longer he held the
04:18ball it's just I think some of
04:19those instances early in the
04:21down kind of like I said made
04:24people think that his footwork
04:25on the whole was bad and needed
04:27to be reworked. The other thing
04:28about his footwork is you know
04:30he would do some drifting around
04:31in the pocket you know kind of
04:32anticipating where rushers would
04:34come from. People took that as
04:36him having bad or skittish
04:37footwork and just doing stuff
04:38for fun. But if you really watch
04:40it like nine times out of ten
04:41he's doing a really good thing
04:43to buy himself space in the
04:44pocket. So again I think people
04:45just kind of misunderstood him
04:47there. I also think people a
04:49little bit misunderstood him too
04:51in the sense of thinking he's
04:53more of a chaos playmaker than
04:55he probably is. And I think this
04:56was actually true of Caleb too.
04:58I think the thing was just when
05:00you have the guys who are this
05:01talented, this athletic, who can
05:03make every throw on the field
05:05and they're playing at programs
05:06as bad as USC and UNC were, yeah
05:08man they're going to go do some
05:09stupid stuff sometimes. Like
05:11they're going to go try to win
05:12the football game. And what I
05:13said about Drake and Caleb for a
05:15lot of the draft season was I
05:17think when you get them to the
05:18NFL where they're going to have
05:20a more structured system, things
05:21are going to be a little bit
05:22more put together, they're
05:23probably going to play a little
05:25bit more put together. And I
05:26think we've seen that from both
05:27Caleb and Drake. So those to me
05:29were like the two biggest things
05:30that always frustrated me with
05:32the discourse about May.
05:33So again, if you're not familiar
05:35with Derek, that to me in
05:37reading you and listening to you
05:38perfectly encapsulated your
05:39approach of like, hey, there's
05:40some nuance here in the footwork.
05:42Here's why. And then there's an
05:44acknowledgement of like, yeah,
05:45that's some casual understanding
05:47and empathy for the quarterbacks
05:48in bad situation. They're going
05:49to do stupid stuff and that's
05:50okay. It's not like all hell,
05:52fire and brimstone with the
05:53negative plays or ascribing it
05:55entirely to that player's
05:56shortcomings or lack of courage
05:58or character or competitive fire
06:00or whatever. It's just sometimes
06:01that's the situation you're in,
06:03which is not an excuse. It's
06:04just what it takes to evaluate
06:05as you do properly. To the
06:07footwork point, I appreciate
06:09again that you dove into that.
06:11And I will say this, it's a good
06:12thing not to broad brush in that
06:14way, because in the same way you
06:15might trust a grandmother as
06:17being a good driver. She'll get
06:18you from point A to point B, but
06:20and you'll get there safely. But
06:22if you need her to be in a hurry
06:23to shave some time off of your
06:25E. T. A. Not the best driver
06:26that you have there, right? Like
06:27in a certain space, she's very
06:29functional. Drake may, you know,
06:30just needs to tidy up, um,
06:32stopping at stop signs. And you
06:34know, most of the time you can
06:35turn on red, but not always. And
06:36kind of deciding when that is
06:37and paying attention to signs.
06:38That's, that's all that it is.
06:40When you saw his preseason
06:42though, specific, let's just
06:43stay with the footwork for a
06:44second, the drop back footwork
06:47and then the stuff you believe
06:48he had taken care of. Did you
06:49see any meaningful difference in
06:50those four drives against Philly?
06:52We'll just ignore the one
06:53against Carolina because
06:54Carolina wasn't playing at
06:55starters. But what did you see
06:56with respect to the footwork in
06:57the preseason? I mean, I think
07:00you kind of see most of the same
07:01issues you saw at UNC. Um, and
07:03again, I want to clarify, it's
07:05mostly just a drop back issue.
07:06It's when he goes to one to two
07:08to three and he gets to that
07:09very top of the drop and then
07:10he's throwing right off of that.
07:12That's where I think sometimes
07:13his footwork can get weird. You
07:14know, he had that one flat route.
07:15I think it was maybe his second
07:16throw of the game. Um, you can
07:19see him, his lead foot is like
07:21too tight to his target. Um, so
07:24you know, the, the target is
07:25like on the left sideline, his
07:26front foot is inside of where
07:29his aiming point should be. And
07:30that just kind of disrupts how
07:31your rotation is with your hip
07:33and it makes the torque really
07:34weird. And so you see him like
07:35finish the throw kind of
07:36awkward. And that's why it
07:37sails the way that it does. He
07:39just kind of does that. Like I
07:40said, on those short throws,
07:41like it's just something he
07:42needs to clean up. He had
07:43another throw, I think to, to
07:45Baker on like a little spot
07:46route, uh, maybe in the third
07:47quarter where he, he kind of
07:48does the same thing. His
07:49footwork is just a little bit
07:50too tight to the target. He
07:52ends up missing for that
07:52reason. But then on the flip
07:54side, the longer he holds the
07:56ball in a play, the cleaner his
07:57footwork is. I mean, look at
07:58the throw to Baker, uh, on that
08:00third down where he's just, as
08:02soon as his back foot hits and
08:03he knows he has to hitch up and
08:05transition elsewhere. That's
08:06clean because he's like getting
08:08himself off of that immediate
08:09throw thing. He's, he's re he's
08:11allowing himself to reset. And
08:13so when he resets like that, he,
08:14he looks great. So I think it's
08:16just the longer he holds the
08:18ball, the better his footwork is.
08:20And I think some of the early
08:21stuff of just cleaning up that
08:22quick transition from end of
08:24drop back to throw that can get
08:26cleaned up. Whereas I think his
08:27more natural feel for sliding in
08:29the pocket and knowing when to
08:30hitch and all that other stuff
08:32that's harder to teach. And
08:33he's already good at that stuff.
08:34So I'm, I'm perfectly fine with
08:35some of the growing pains with
08:36some of the quick game stuff.
08:38And I think too, that's the
08:39important, another important
08:40delineation is the stuff that
08:42had everyone so excited about
08:43him as a prospect to go. Not
08:45only does he look like all the
08:46best quarterbacks in the league
08:47now, it's, he's got this kind of
08:49innate feel and talent. That's
08:51much harder to teach the stuff
08:53that he needs to clean up. You
08:54get old school West coast guys
08:56like Alex van Pelt, who's still
08:57doing drills from Paul Hackett
08:58in the seventies to fix that
09:00footwork. It might take some
09:01time. It could be frustrating.
09:02You go, why the hell was that
09:04flat ball? Seven yards of location
09:05on booty said, Oh, he still
09:06grabbed it anyway. Great. He
09:08counts as a completion, but that
09:09that seems to be the big line,
09:10right? The stuff that he needs to
09:11fix. He can, the stuff that
09:13he's great at, you might never
09:14get out of even some above
09:16average quarterbacks.
09:17That's exactly it. And that's
09:18why I was so willing to bet on
09:19him. Like you, you just see
09:20some of the pocket movement,
09:21the talent is just, that's the
09:23stuff you can't teach. And this
09:24even logic applied to like when
09:26I loved Anthony Richardson as a
09:27prospect, you know, they're
09:28slightly different. Drake may is
09:29a little bit further along, but
09:31it's the same idea of, you
09:32know, some of the stuff he
09:33struggles with, we can get him
09:35there. Some of the stuff he
09:36already does at a high level.
09:38There's maybe a dozen of those
09:39guys in the league at best. So
09:42that is why I'm willing to bet
09:43on may. And I just thought
09:44there were so many examples in
09:45this game where you could just
09:47see how fast Drake operates.
09:49And that to me is the most
09:50impressive part. Again, that,
09:51that third down throw to Baker
09:52where he is, what's so
09:54impressive to me is if you
09:55watch a lot of the best
09:56quarterbacks, as soon as they
09:57hit their final drop step,
09:59they're not like sitting there
10:01for a second and then moving on
10:02to whatever their hitch is or
10:03their next read, they are taking
10:05that drop step and literally
10:06bouncing off that back foot
10:07into their hitch or into their
10:09next read. You saw may do that
10:10three or four times in this
10:11game. And I was like, man, if
10:12he's already there, that's the
10:14type of stuff that I saw from
10:15like Joe Burrow as a rookie
10:16where you were like, oh yeah,
10:17he's, he's ready to go already.
10:19We don't have to worry about
10:20this. And so the fact that
10:20Drake is doing it, you know,
10:22only preseason, but it was
10:23still really impressive to me.
10:25Yeah. Not to mention those
10:26throws were third down too. So
10:28it's not like the Eagles are
10:29spinning the dial though. I
10:30think Fangio played, uh, on the
10:32deep ball to Baker to get like
10:33super in the weed. Some of this
10:35empty like poach coverage, you
10:37know, where the, the, the
10:38safety closest to Baker and the
10:39deep ball that we all, you know,
10:41just absolutely bleeped our
10:44pants over was, you know, the
10:46safety was looking in the
10:47opposite direction. Like he was
10:48looking at the number three, the
10:49innermost slot on the opposite
10:50side. So it was a good route.
10:51It was a good play call and he
10:52puts it on the money. But Drake
10:53understood that in a way that
10:55was, okay, I'm going to have one
10:56on one here, even though there's
10:57a safety over the top, he's not
10:59going to be paying attention and
11:00maybe he'll fall for the kind of
11:02nod that Baker gave him in his
11:03post, um, and put the ball on the
11:05money. Now that said, I was very
11:07rosy about his performance last
11:09week after doing my own film
11:10breakdown and then made the
11:11point. So this guy goes five of
11:1310 for 24 yards outside of a 23
11:16yard flow screen that was very
11:17well blocked and executed with
11:19some bad defense by the Eagles.
11:20And we're all celebrating and
11:22then explain why. But in
11:23rewatching the game again, Derek,
11:25like there are a couple of
11:26things that I would hone in on
11:28for him, or I think he has been
11:30eager to throw the ball deep
11:31because that's who he is. And
11:32it's not someone we really saw
11:34in the first two, three weeks of
11:35camp, but literally half his
11:36practices had one attempt or
11:38fewer over 10 yards. And he's
11:40living within this kind of
11:41check down Charlie realm, but he
11:43seemed to be married to Baker
11:45almost predetermined on that
11:47deep incompletion. And then when
11:48we're Baker was out of bounds
11:49and then the defensive pass
11:51interference call, do you see
11:52any of that? Because to me,
11:53long-term that's an issue. Um,
11:55but I don't know if it's just a
11:55kid who's finally scratching an
11:57itch that he's been resisting
11:58for three weeks in practice.
12:00I think it's a little bit more
12:01of that. Um, because you know, I
12:03think Drake may is naturally a
12:05guy who he wants to make the
12:06coolest throw on the field. And
12:07he's willing to do some of the
12:09more, you know, buttoned up
12:10stuff. Like there was a play
12:11action call they had where he
12:13gets to the top of his drop one
12:14hitch. And as soon as the hitch
12:15is over and he knows his guys
12:16not open checks it down. It's
12:17like, okay, he can do that. And
12:20I know he knows in the back of
12:22his mind that making those
12:23places, the right call, but
12:24there is some part of him where
12:26he's like, I'm just going to
12:27throw it up sometimes. And
12:28again, I don't think this is the
12:29worst thing, especially, um, if
12:31you really trust your receiver
12:32in that way, like, again, not
12:33to bring up, you know, Joe
12:34burrow a million times, but
12:35like Joe plays this way, he'll
12:36make the simple quick throws
12:38when they're there and stuff.
12:39But there are two, three times
12:40a game where it's like, it
12:41might not be open to T or to
12:43Jamar chase, but he's going to
12:45throw it anyway. Cause he's
12:45like, ah, my guy's there. And
12:47you know, if we can get
12:48generating explosive here, then
12:49we're going to do it. And may
12:50is obviously more than talented
12:51enough to make those throws
12:52consistently. So especially in
12:54the preseason, I'm not too
12:55worried about like stylistic
12:57stuff. Maybe if this, this
12:59hangs over into the season when
13:00he starts playing and he's just
13:02consistently too aggressive and
13:03passing up some of the easy
13:04stuff, then maybe I'll be a not
13:07concerned like long-term, but
13:08like, Hey man, let's, let's
13:10dial this down a little bit.
13:11But for now I think I'm okay
13:13with him scratching the itch a
13:14little bit.
13:14Yeah. And I think to the other
13:16part about this and you know,
13:17he'll live and learn. It was his
13:18second freaking preseason game
13:20in some instances, the second,
13:21third, fourth, fifth drive of
13:22his entire NFL career. You
13:24know, they had a drive concept,
13:26which for the folks at home,
13:27it's a shallow cross underneath
13:28with the dig over the tops of
13:3012 yards and then in cut over
13:31the middle of the field, the
13:32kind of high, low action. And
13:33then instead he just threw to
13:34Baker on the opposite side, deep
13:35down the sideline that dig or
13:37deep over was open to Mitchell
13:38Wilcox, shockingly, uh, in the
13:41first instance of the Baker
13:42incompletion. And they had
13:43another possible first down
13:45throw to him or the shallow in
13:46the third quarter when it said
13:47he just saw a single coverage
13:48and was like, I'm going to give
13:49it up because Joe Burrow has
13:51Jamar chase and T Higgins. And
13:52that's the big difference is
13:53like, he's working with Jayvon
13:54Baker, whose routes are as rough
13:56as mine might be if I went out
13:57there at least today. And he's
13:58a much better receiver, but his
13:59think like may learning to
14:01harness his talent where the
14:02none of the other nitpicks that
14:04you had, because again, like
14:05it's, it's the completed 48
14:08yard or would have made all the
14:09difference in the world. But I
14:10think most of us understood
14:11that. And that's why we wrote
14:11positively. If you were going
14:13into the quarterback's room
14:14within the next day, what are
14:16you saying? Hey, we got to
14:17address this first in practice
14:18next. Yeah. You know, mostly it
14:21would just be the two quick
14:22game foot, uh, footwork examples
14:24I brought up. I think those
14:25were his worst plays. I will
14:26say too, there was that stretch
14:27there kind of at the end of him
14:29playing where he had, uh, the
14:31two throwaways back to back.
14:33The first one I actually
14:34thought was a really good
14:35decision. Um, because they play
14:37this like man coverage where
14:39they didn't actually have a
14:40center fielder. They they're
14:41like free player. Uh, their
14:43free zone player was more of
14:44like a rat kind of watching
14:45may everybody's covered up and
14:47he just kind of tries to get
14:48out of the pocket, realizes
14:49nobody's open, throws it away.
14:50Cool. That one's good. The
14:52second one, the, the right
14:55guard kind of loses
14:56immediately. And that's where
14:58may is opening to his right
14:59side, right? Guard loses
15:00immediately. He's going to make
15:01the throw, but it's all covered
15:02because the defensive lineman
15:03is in the way. And then he
15:05kind of like panics for a
15:05second. He was like, Oh no, I
15:07don't know where to go now on
15:08this play. Um, and I think he
15:10started to try to run, realize
15:12that wasn't going to be open.
15:13And then he kind of bailed
15:14again and kind of got a little
15:15skittish. I think if he had
15:17like backed up just for a
15:18second in the pocket, gave
15:19himself time to look left,
15:20somebody would have been open
15:21and somebody was open. So that
15:23was really the only other
15:24place. So again, I would say
15:25the two footwork mess ups that
15:27he had early. And then maybe
15:29that second throwaway where he
15:30could have been a little bit
15:30more patient, but I think
15:33otherwise I, it was a pretty
15:34encouraging performance for me.
15:36Okay. Uh, let's go big picture
15:38again. I know you've not been at
15:39practice every single day. And
15:40even if you were, you
15:41understood, you know, as much
15:43context as I try to deliver
15:44around, Oh, he was day of 11
15:45here today. It was only seven
15:46to 12 the other day. Like it
15:48matters where the misses, how
15:49deep, what's the coverage like
15:51so many much more nuanced, but
15:53whether it's from what you've
15:54seen from him specifically in
15:55the preseason or just going
15:57down, rookies like him
15:59historically, what are the next
16:00checkpoints or boxes you want
16:02to see him check before we
16:04really get into, uh, he's in
16:06the starting conversation,
16:07unless you're there already.
16:09I mean, I'm there already. Um,
16:11and that's, that's not even
16:12necessarily to say that right
16:14now, today, he's a better
16:15quarterback than Jacoby
16:17Brissette. You know, I think
16:17Jacoby Brissette, when he's got
16:19the right stuff around him,
16:20he's playing well, he can be
16:21like, you know, in the low
16:22twenties of quarterbacks, you
16:23know, quarterback 22 or
16:24whatever, which isn't
16:25fantastic. But when, you know,
16:27when you're a player of his
16:28caliber, that's pretty good. I
16:29think he can be that kind of
16:29guy right now would take
16:32quarterback number 22 last
16:34three years after having like
16:3630 and 39 last year. Yeah, I
16:38would say that's good. Um, but
16:40you know, for me, I think it's
16:41more just that he, some of his
16:44skills lead me to believe he's
16:46a guy who's going to be fine if
16:47he has to play early, like his
16:49pocket presence and his pocket
16:50movement leads me to believe,
16:52okay, he can already handle one
16:53of the hardest parts of the
16:54game right now. I think his
16:55processing speed, even if he
16:57isn't, you know, like we said,
16:58he's a rookie, he's not going
16:59to make the right decision
17:00every single time. And maybe
17:01he'll take a couple shortcuts
17:02like that, a sideline throw to
17:03Baker. But generally, I think
17:05he processes at a pretty high
17:07level for a rookie. That's a
17:08good start. And then the
17:09physical tools kind of just are
17:11going to give him this margin
17:12for error that rookies, you
17:14know, kind of need, um, just
17:16because of how athletic he is,
17:17how good his arm is. So, and
17:18the other thing is may kind of
17:21seems like a crazy person, um,
17:22in the right way, which is to
17:24say that I don't think him
17:26having some rookie failings
17:27where if he's going out there
17:28by week eight and they're two
17:29and six and he's getting beat
17:30up, I really don't think that's
17:32going to have the worst. Um, you
17:34know, I don't think that's
17:35going to ruin him, especially
17:36with how much I kind of like
17:37this staff and trust this staff
17:39to like keep him even killed.
17:40So to me, he's a guy you just
17:42throw into the fire and, and,
17:44and hope that he can figure
17:45stuff out by week eight, week
17:4610. Well, let's stay in the
17:48staff. Cause I, I haven't
17:49talked about vamp hell, I think
17:51for a couple of months in the
17:52way that I thought the scheme
17:53fit was, was really positive.
17:55The Browns lead the league in
17:56air yards. It's all deep play
17:58action shots off of an outside
17:59zone, a base run game, but they
18:01do enough kind of duo and some
18:03counter concepts to sprinkle it
18:04in there, but it's just
18:05downfield, downfield,
18:06downfield. What, what else gives
18:07you confidence or why, why are
18:09you confident about the staff
18:10with Drake May?
18:12It's not even fully the
18:13offensive staff. It's Gerard
18:15Mayo. I just, he seems like the
18:16guy who, who just gets it to me.
18:18And I think he's going to kind
18:20of be the type of guy who keeps
18:21everyone understanding what the
18:23goal is and kind of having a
18:25good long-term outlook on stuff
18:26and not like if they're one in
18:28five, uh, you know, by week six,
18:30like everybody's panicking. I
18:31think Mayo is the kind of guy
18:32who can kind of keep guys, um,
18:34in line a little bit, almost
18:35like Dan Campbell was able to
18:37do with, with the lions a few
18:38years ago when they were just
18:39absolutely terrible. Um, I, I
18:42expecting some sort of similar
18:43effect there. So that's what a
18:45lot of it is to me. I will say
18:46what I'm curious about with van
18:48Pelt. I know it's supposed to be
18:50kind of a zone running thing,
18:51but I'm almost more think that
18:54a like duo and counter and power
18:57that style of play action
19:00actually kind of fits may a
19:02little bit better. Um, just
19:03because I think it allows for a
19:05little bit more, I think when
19:08you get into that world, uh, so
19:10like when you're in the zone
19:11world, I think rollouts are a
19:12little bit better, all that sort
19:13of stuff. But I think when
19:15you're in the hard play action
19:17world with power and counter and
19:18duo, I think you get some more
19:20access to like dig throws and
19:21some of the seam throws and some
19:23of the stuff like that. Drake
19:24is really, really good at
19:25throwing those. And so I kind of
19:26think that that is more of the
19:27world that they should live in,
19:28but either one's going to work.
19:30So it's not a huge deal.
19:31Well, and for folks who are
19:32going, okay, what the hell is the
19:34difference between that world of,
19:36you know, more man, black runs
19:37and the play action that that's
19:39afforded with the pulling guard,
19:40but it's actually not a run,
19:41even though they pulled the
19:42garden, it's a play action
19:42throw. That's what you watch with
19:44Tom Brady for 20 years. Those
19:45were the throws, the seams to
19:46Gronk, the digs to even Brandon
19:48LaFelle. If you want to go back
19:4920, like 10 years, that was the
19:51world that he lived in. I'm with
19:52you. I do think though, the
19:54boot game, at least for me would
19:55simplify what a lot of like a
19:57three level reads, as you know,
19:58kind of come into one side of
19:59the field. If it's not there,
20:00throw it away. And we even saw
20:02an instance of his, uh, speaking
20:03about Drake may now second
20:05reaction ability when he's on
20:07that naked right after the big
20:09dig completion to Baker and his
20:11first and 10 and Nolan Smith
20:12just says hello immediately.
20:13And he's got to flip it into the
20:14flat, which before would have
20:16sent Mac Jones and Billy's happy
20:17just down into a puddle. And
20:19rightfully so Nolan Smith, the
20:20big menacing guy who wants to
20:21take your head off may hops
20:23backward, flips it around him.
20:25And I just go, that's the stuff
20:26that I think works with the
20:27outside zone game. But maybe
20:28they get to a little bit of both
20:29years. They kind of find their
20:30offense. Yeah. And again, I
20:33don't think that stuff's going
20:33to be bad. I think bringing up
20:34that play is a perfect example.
20:36Like may will be good at the
20:37rollout stuff. Um, I just think
20:39purely as a passer, it's, you
20:41know, and I'll say this
20:42selfishly, it's just cooler to
20:43watch a guy hit a dig route or a
20:45seam route. I mean, it's why
20:46watching Brady was so cool. Um,
20:47where some of the rollout stuff
20:48can be, sometimes it's just
20:49wide open and it's not as fun.
20:51Um, but no, on that rollout, him
20:53being able to get to those arm
20:54angles too, is it, you know,
20:56more and more guys are able to
20:58do it in the league now, but it's
20:59kind of is a requirement to be
21:00able to do it. Uh, you know,
21:02maybe 10 years ago, only five or
21:03six guys were able to do that
21:04consistently. Now it's probably
21:05closer to a dozen, but you got
21:07to be one of those dozen and may
21:09certainly has that, which is
21:10just another feather in his cap.
21:12Do you watch the NBA at all?
21:13They're not, not really, not
21:15really. Okay. So the reason I
21:17ask is because there's like, I
21:20don't know the last time he was
21:20in the booth, but Mark Jackson,
21:22when he was calling all the NBA
21:23finals and would reach into the
21:25same bag of four cliches or
21:27analysis when you were watching
21:29Steph and LeBron go at it and
21:31like Warriors Cavs three years
21:32in a row was a great defense,
21:35but better offense. And I feel
21:37like when we talk about the arm
21:38angles and the second reaction
21:39ability in the playmaking, that
21:41to me is where we're at a level
21:42of where these quarterbacks can
21:44see the perfect defensive call.
21:46The defense got what it wanted.
21:47Nolan Smith, one-on-one unblocked
21:49against Drake May and his
21:51playmaking was the better
21:52offense to that great defense in
21:54a way that I think that's the
21:55next level of when Tom Brady had
21:57a perfectly defended play. He
21:59just had to throw it away. Like
22:00he was, he is the greatest
22:02quarterback of all time, but was
22:03missing that playmaking piece
22:04that I think now is more common.
22:06Like you're seeing across the
22:06league with the arm angles that
22:08there's just no answer for that
22:09because I will either buy more
22:10time or I will do something off
22:13schedule that you can't
22:14anticipate because you did
22:15anticipate the play call and
22:16you got it right, but the play
22:17is not over yet.
22:19No, that's so right. I mean,
22:21there's going to be, I think in
22:22the modern NFL, you know,
22:23defenses are better than they
22:25were a long time ago. I know
22:26there was that little scoring
22:27run for, you know, maybe five,
22:29six years ago where offenses
22:30were putting up a ton of points,
22:31but I think the players are much
22:33better. And I think especially
22:33over the past couple of years,
22:35defenses have really honed in on
22:36what offenses are doing. You
22:38have to be able to, you know,
22:40there's going to be probably
22:41eight plays a game out of your,
22:43you know, 34, 35 dropbacks where
22:45the defense just has you smoked
22:47and you have to go make a play
22:49and what percentage of those
22:51eight plays that you can
22:52actually make over the defense
22:53kind of determines what quality
22:55of quarterback you are. And may
22:56is, may is to me, the quality of
22:58quarterback that on a good day
22:59can make six of them out of
23:01eight. And that's, that's when
23:02you really start to have a guy
23:03who is special.
23:05So to answer my own question,
23:07five, 10 minutes ago, whatever
23:08it was, what are the next
23:09checkpoints that I want to see
23:10from him? Uh, he's, he's getting
23:12closer to being more aggressive
23:13downfield, which I think is a
23:14sign of comfort and
23:15understanding timing and just
23:16the offense in general, which
23:18is, which is good. He's getting
23:18there. The protecting the ball,
23:21I think was well overblown in
23:23college. Like you understood
23:24when he watched those
23:24turnover-worthy plays, why he
23:26was doing that. Some of them
23:27were bad decisions, like just
23:28not here to excuse all of them,
23:29but the rate of turnover where
23:31the plays in college did not
23:32have me concerned, does not have
23:33me concerned in the NFL. And
23:34even then he's 21, he's going to
23:36do stupid things. What I want
23:38isn't even necessarily tied to
23:40him aside from just get better,
23:41be more consistent. I want them
23:43to settle the situation around
23:45him, which isn't to say pick the
23:47receivers, pick the offensive
23:48line and go, but they haven't
23:50done that yet. Secondly, we
23:53don't know how defenses are
23:54going to attack them and they
23:55will have a buffet of options.
23:57Derek, we'll get to the regular
23:58season of what stunts you want
24:00to run, what's live and you
24:01want to attack, how much man
24:03coverage you want to play 90 or
24:05a hundred percent. And how can
24:06the Patriots combat that? So I
24:07think once the Patriots
24:08understand the lay of the land
24:10when it comes to their offense
24:11versus NFL defenses, and you
24:13understand Leighton Robinson's
24:15going to start for us. He's
24:16just been that good as a rookie
24:17or Caden Wallace or whoever it
24:18might be. Then I want May to be
24:20able to step into it. Not
24:21because he can't handle the
24:22pressure. His sack avoidance has
24:23been better in camp than Jacobi
24:25Berset's. Statistically, I test
24:27all of it, but I just want
24:29things to be a little bit more
24:30stable than they've been. And
24:32that, that to me, I think is the
24:33biggest concern because not only
24:35is he just young and he can
24:36handle the pressure, he's
24:37building new habits. And to go
24:39back to the driving analogy of
24:41like, you know, forget your
24:41grandma for a second, but if
24:42you were on the highway after
24:44getting your permit as a 16 year
24:45old and all this hectic mass
24:48whole drivers around you, like
24:49that's going to screw with you
24:51and you're just general mental
24:52state going on a two lane road
24:53going 40 miles an hour. Like you
24:54need to understand how to handle
24:56different situations. If you're
24:57thrown into the fire immediately,
24:58I don't want any kind of
25:00regression from the habits he's
25:01building footwork or reads or
25:03anything because he just needs
25:04to survive instead of thrive,
25:06which is ultimately what you
25:07want.
25:09No, that's a great point. And
25:10you know, for me, I'm less
25:12worried about the receiver core
25:13and more about the offensive
25:15line. You know, the receiving
25:15core is not great, but I at
25:17least look at these guys and
25:18it's like, there's a role for
25:20everybody. Right. And it makes
25:21sense to me. Like Baker can be
25:22kind of your vertical ex. Um,
25:25Polk is, is kind of just a do
25:26it all, but he's got, I think
25:27in a feast over the middle of
25:28the field and he can do a
25:29little bit with the ball in his
25:30hands. Um, obviously a guy like
25:32pop Douglas can kind of be your
25:33underneath, uh, yak type of
25:35guy. So like everyone's role at
25:37least makes sense to me. So
25:38it's like, okay, they can put
25:39something together here. That's
25:40not going to look janky. The
25:42offensive line is where I get a
25:43little bit. I just don't know
25:45what the construction is going
25:46to look like because you know, I
25:47know at first the, the idea was
25:48Caden Wallace was going to come
25:49in and play left tackle, but I
25:52don't think he looked very good
25:52at left tackle, but then at
25:53right tackle, he actually looked
25:54pretty comfortable. Um, and so
25:56it's like, what are they
25:56actually going to do with him?
25:57Shocking. That's the guy who
25:59played four years of right
25:59tackle in college. 40 college
26:04starts at right. Tackle doesn't
26:05look good at left tackle. Who
26:06would have known? Um, so I
26:09actually, that's my question to
26:10you. What, what is the
26:11starting five supposed to be if
26:13you were to guess right now?
26:14So, and the other player we
26:16haven't mentioned yet is
26:17Chukumo Corfor who finds
26:19starting right tackle for the
26:20Steelers, uh, for six years, you
26:22know, so, so adequate signs for
26:25one minute, one year, 4 million
26:26bucks before free agency doesn't
26:28test the whole open market. They
26:30say, yeah, he's our left tackle.
26:31He did it in college. I go,
26:32okay, there are a lot of stuff I
26:33did in college. I could not
26:34physically do now. Um, and he
26:38started camp there for two
26:41practices. He's not been back
26:42since, except for a little bit
26:44here and there the last couple
26:45of days. So this is a long way
26:46of saying, I don't know. And
26:48right now they're counting on
26:50the dairy and low left tackle
26:51city salad, left guard, David
26:52Andrews at center, uh, Michael
26:54one who's still at right guard
26:55and maybe a core for maybe
26:57Caden Wallace or right tackle.
26:59The one thing I will say is
27:00this, because I've been banging
27:01the mic on one who at right
27:02tackle drum one, he's 350
27:04pounds, self-reported. Uh, I
27:06don't know if they want him
27:07playing it that way at right
27:09tackle number two, when they
27:11have started to rotate the last
27:12three, four days in practice.
27:13And this is notable to me. They
27:15pull south from left guard. He
27:16said a pretty good camp and
27:17then a core for right tackle a
27:19core for, I get plugging Caden
27:20Wallace. Maybe he's better.
27:21We'll see. But if Sal's right
27:23now, your top three linemen
27:24that to me says we're putting
27:26Layden Robinson, who's a
27:27college right guard over the
27:28left side, as opposed to just
27:30keeping laid in at right guard
27:32where he's comfortable and
27:34moving Mike on one who out. So
27:35as much as I might want, say
27:38that five more times, I might
27:40want Mike at right tackle. They
27:42don't want to do that. They're
27:43pulling one of their better
27:44offensive linemen, moving a
27:45rookie to a new spot. And that
27:47might be the starting five,
27:48which is to say they don't
27:50know. So how could I,
27:53that would confuse me too.
27:54Cause I will say Layden
27:55Robinson, he, he might have
27:57something that he kind of went
27:58good. Yeah. And I don't, again,
28:00I don't know how they're going
28:01to fit him into the lineup
28:02because you know, city, so it
28:03was kind of an ass kicker too.
28:04And, uh, and when, who
28:05obviously when he's playing
28:06guard is really good. So I'm,
28:08I might be with you maybe just
28:09move on one or two back to
28:10right tackle. You know, I think
28:11he's played pretty well there
28:12when he's had to, it's just, I
28:14don't know, man, I will say
28:15too, the reason I said more of,
28:18I want more duo counter power,
28:20that stuff, just look at the
28:21offensive lineman they had.
28:22That's what these guys do. Like
28:23that's what they're built for.
28:25So they can probably be fine on
28:27the zone run stuff, but let's,
28:28let's just go mall some people
28:29and put them in the ground.
28:31Yeah. And I I've heard them say
28:32in press conferences, like,
28:33Hey, we're still finding our
28:34identity and we're going to
28:35figure this out. And that's
28:37something people just say in
28:38August in the NFL. And I think
28:39largely it's true. But you need
28:41to know quickly what you're
28:42good at. Cause that list, that
28:43menu is going to be very small
28:45just based on your talent and
28:46then stick to it and find what
28:47you know, appropriate number of
28:49counters to keep the defense
28:50off balance and just live in
28:52that world, live in that space.
28:53And I don't, I don't think they
28:54have yet. They are still
28:55majoring in zone. But we'll see
28:57cause they're going to learn a
28:58lot since he Seattle, the jets,
29:01then the Niners, like these are
29:03defenses or not, not messing
29:05around. Which brings me to
29:06my last question. And this
29:08would, you know, get you on
29:10Boston sports talk radio. If
29:12you ever want to join that
29:13hellscape time of thing, thing
29:15we've been talking about for
29:16the last two months, when should
29:17Drake may start and you watch
29:19a preseason, you sounds like
29:20you're ready to start him now,
29:22but we agree like the situation
29:23around him is so fluid. I want
29:26to wait personally at least six
29:27weeks. Where do you land on
29:28this? Yeah. So I, I think he's
29:32the type of player as an
29:33individual who could play week
29:34one. Like I said, I think even
29:36with a less than ideal
29:37situation, I think he's just
29:38the kind of guy who has the
29:40talent, who has the makeup to
29:41where he's probably going to be
29:42fine by the end of the season.
29:44But I think you've kind of sold
29:45me on the idea that it's not so
29:47much about him. It's about, can
29:49we find the starting five that
29:50we like, can we really lock down
29:52these receiver roles and make
29:53sure everybody is on, on the
29:55same page about where everyone
29:56needs to be and what roles
29:57everyone is playing. And as an
29:58offense, we understand what
29:59we're supposed to be. So I think
30:01that would make sense. I think
30:02the trickiest part of it is,
30:04you know, usually with Ricky
30:05quarter, actually try to find
30:06like, Oh, what's the week four
30:07or five or six game where, you
30:08know, maybe you're not playing a
30:09great team. You can put it,
30:11that's just not on the table for
30:12the Patriots this year. They
30:13play like a murderer's row of
30:16defenses almost every single
30:17week. And so waiting for the
30:19perfect opportunity to put them
30:21in just, just doesn't really
30:22exist. You know, maybe like
30:24Miami, what is it? Week six or
30:25seven is like of that stretch,
30:27maybe the most easy, but even
30:29then it's probably still an
30:30above average defense. So this
30:32is there, there are no slouches.
30:33So, um, yeah, good luck, man. I
30:36think, I think the timing of
30:37when, I think the timing of when
30:38they throw him in doesn't
30:39matter. It's more just kind of
30:40like you said, can they
30:42stabilize the rest of the
30:43offense a little bit and make
30:44sure everyone's solidified?
30:46I like making this joke in the
30:47podcast that we need to print
30:48the shirts and you've had two
30:49phrases that I would make sure
30:50it's out of good luck, man, the
30:522024 Patriots, and then doesn't
30:54look that janky. The 2024
30:56Patriots received because
30:58that's just, uh, that's just
30:59where we're at. Actually, I
31:00lied. I'll get you out on this
31:01because I'm actually writing a
31:03piece, uh, later this week. And
31:04it's, it's, it's well-spirited.
31:07It's not negative. It's not
31:08making fun of anyone. It's not
31:09sarcastic. It's just
31:10acknowledging Patriots fans have
31:12not watched a rebuild since
31:13Bill Belichick got here in
31:142000 and they went five and
31:1611. A, do you have a team who
31:17do you root for? And then what
31:18would your advice be to fans
31:20who are about to witness a team
31:21that's actively rebuilding?
31:24Okay. So this is not going to
31:26be the answer I think you were
31:27expecting. As far as NFL, I
31:28don't have a team I root for
31:29anymore. I used to be a Ravens
31:30fan. You might love this answer.
31:32That, you know, that pick Flacco
31:34through, uh, on the left side in
31:35like the 2014, 2015 AFC
31:37championship game, he threw it
31:39like right at the left pylon. I
31:40don't remember who picked it
31:41off, but he said, this was
31:44towards the end of the game.
31:45Yeah. He threw it like right at
31:46the pylon. Yes, it was thrown
31:48Harmon. He picked it off and I
31:49was like, I just don't really
31:51care anymore. So I, so I just
31:53stopped being a fan. Basically
31:55the other thing I, the only
31:56other sport I'm a fan of
31:57actually is, is I watched
31:58professional legal legends a
31:59lot. Um, and I'm a 100 thieves
32:02fan. And so I started watching
32:03again in 2018, the first year
32:05they were awesome. They went to
32:06the title, they ended up losing
32:08it, but like they were a really
32:09good team. The next two or three
32:11years was like this massive
32:13rebuild of like, all right,
32:14we're bringing in young players.
32:16We're trying to see how all this
32:17stuff works. So to me, it's just
32:19cherish the little moments where
32:21the young players actually look
32:23like they can be building
32:24blocks. Um, because eventually
32:26you can put together a team.
32:27Like that was kind of the
32:28hundred thieves thing is they
32:29eventually found one or two
32:30players that were like, all
32:31right, this is a building block.
32:33And then they brought in a bunch
32:34of veterans to kind of cleaned
32:35it up and actually make a good
32:36team. You just got to pray that
32:38you find one or two of those
32:39building blocks. And, you know,
32:40obviously the quarterback should
32:41be one of them.
32:42So I nodded and gave up cause
32:44I'm a polite host, but now I'm
32:45going to be a rude host. Can you
32:46explain? I've heard of legal
32:48legends very quickly. What that
32:49is like, what we were just
32:51listening about. Yeah. So it
32:54isn't a criticism. It's just
32:55like to inform what we're
32:56talking about. I think the
32:57themes you mentioned young
32:58players, cherish the little
32:59moments, absolutely spot on
33:00cosine. I think that's great
33:01advice. I might steal it for
33:03this column. Um, but just, just
33:05a little more insight there.
33:07Yeah. So it's a, it's a five on
33:08five, uh, computer game. Uh,
33:10it's kind of like a top down,
33:12you know, maybe people are
33:13maybe more familiar with like
33:14Starcraft. It's a little bit
33:15similar to that in terms of the
33:17look. Um, but basically there
33:19are just three lanes on the map
33:21and different characters go
33:22into the lanes. And the goal is
33:23to just push them as far as you
33:24can get into the enemy base and
33:26it explode the Nexus. So
33:27there's a bunch of different
33:28characters that do a different,
33:29a bunch of different things and
33:31you know, they interact in
33:32different ways, but that's
33:33pretty much the gist of it.
33:34It's in terms of the pacing is
33:36probably closer to like soccer
33:37or something or basketball
33:38maybe. So it's not as like set
33:40play as football, but that's
33:41probably my closest analogy.
33:43It's the best I can do.
33:44Close word. No, that was well
33:45set. I got, I have a picture in
33:46my head. I understand we had a
33:47comparison that, uh, that
33:49definitely works. Uh, Derek,
33:50this has been awesome. First
33:51conversation we ever had. I
33:52hope, I hope to have you back
33:53on the show, listen to him at
33:55the athletic football show,
33:56co-host read him at definitely,
33:58uh, plenty of places as you
33:59continue to do great work
34:00specifically on the
34:01quarterbacks and follow them at
34:02QB K L a S S Derek. Thank you,
34:05man. Thank you so much for
34:07having me. I appreciate it. The
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35:24run your game. Okay. It's been a
35:28couple of months, but we have,
35:29uh, another mail fan segment,
35:31Joey shoddy, first three time
35:32member of the mail fan club.
35:33This is how it works. You guys
35:35know by now, hopefully if you
35:36like to submit mailbag
35:37questions, first of all, I
35:38appreciate it. Second of all,
35:40you can take that question and
35:41come on the show and answer it
35:42yourself for five to 10 minutes.
35:44We can go back and forth. If
35:46you show me proof of receipt or
35:47donation a dollar or more to
35:49Boston children's hospital, Joe
35:50has done this on multiple
35:51occasions. That's why Joe is
35:52back. And Joe, Joe has a
35:54question here today. Uh, but
35:56first I have a question for you
35:57because we just chatted off
35:58air. Do you think we should
36:00change the format of the mail
36:02fan segment where I ask you
36:03your own question and then you
36:04answer it and then we go back
36:05and forth? Because I feel like
36:06you after me probably should
36:08have the most say in this and
36:09that you've been on this
36:10segment more than anybody else,
36:11except for myself.
36:13Oh, geez. A lot of pressure.
36:14Well, first off, thanks for
36:15having me on again. Um, I will
36:17say, I think a lot of times
36:21that the questions I'm, I'm not
36:25going to, you know, put myself
36:27up on a pedestal in the sense
36:29that you know more than us. And
36:31I would love to, I'm happy to
36:32answer my question, but um, you
36:35know, I don't know if anyone
36:36really cares about my opinion
36:38at the end of the day. Um, uh,
36:39so I'm happy to answer the
36:42question. And I think that's,
36:43you know, it's great to have a
36:44fan perspective. And I think
36:45that's a benefit of this
36:46podcast where you're not just,
36:48it's just two beat writers
36:49talking to two insiders talking.
36:51So, um, that's not really an
36:53answer to your question.
36:54I was going to say that's the
36:55longest mealy mouth. Yes, I've
36:56ever heard. So we are, uh, I'm
36:59going to take your feedback, but
37:00I am not going to apply it
37:02today. We are going to continue
37:03with the forum, but I'll think
37:04about it later. And I'll, I'll
37:05ask you your question, which in
37:06essence was, uh, in two, in two
37:08parts, right? You know, Gerard
37:09Mayo, first year coach,
37:11inexperienced, still just year
37:12six of coaching for him period
37:14in any kind of capacity. Is he
37:16maybe escaping a little bit of
37:18the criticism or some scrutiny?
37:19Right? There's no real reason to
37:21criticize him yet, except for
37:22what he says in the media, uh,
37:23which I did on occasion in the
37:25off season that of course people
37:26get upset, but is he flying under
37:27the radar maybe for the talk
37:29radio TV sense? And number two,
37:31is there anything that I've seen
37:32that would either encourage me or
37:34discourage me about what happens
37:35next? So I'll let you go on
37:37number one, because I think
37:38there's like a media aspect to
37:39this, right? Like, and we should
37:41be, you know, open season on us
37:42at all times, just like the
37:43coaches and players. We work in
37:45the public eye. So do you think
37:46he's flying under the radar
37:47unfairly? I don't think it's, I
37:49don't think it's unfair.
37:49Definitely not unfairly. I think
37:51it's, if anything, it's a
37:52benefit to him where I'm
37:55thinking of a scenario, if the,
37:56if the craft kind of grand plan
37:59had worked out where Bill gets
38:02his wins and he kind of rides off
38:05into the sunset and Mayo
38:06transitions on, and there's a
38:08scenario of Mac Jones is the
38:09franchise quarterback. And we're
38:11really, this off season is about
38:12our next off season is about the
38:14Gerard Mayo era. And instead of
38:17you having to chart how many,
38:19you know, botched snaps there
38:20are, it's you're doing a tick
38:22tock of everything that Mayo is
38:24doing at practice. Oh, he's over
38:25at the offense. He's over at the
38:26defense. Oh, he's doing this.
38:27He's doing that. So I think he's
38:30going to benefit from the fact
38:31that his words are getting
38:34parsed, but they're not getting
38:35every single word is getting
38:36parsed. He's not getting
38:38compared to Bill in every
38:41sentence. He's his off seat.
38:44He's allowed to be a coach a
38:45little more than just being kind
38:47of the, the new face in town.
38:49He's not the only new thing.
38:50There's so much other things to
38:51focus on. I do think once the
38:52season starts and if the
38:55offensive line gets settled, at
38:56least they have a starting five
38:58that they're, they're stuck with
38:59and preset starting a couple of
39:01games and the focus will turn to
39:03him. And the first time that he
39:06calls a timeout at the wrong
39:06point or forgets to call a time
39:08out or mismanages the clock, you
39:10know, there will be attention on
39:10him, but I think for now, he's
39:12probably benefiting a bit from
39:14the fact that he's not the only
39:16story in town. He seems to be
39:17the fourth or fifth story right
39:20now, which is probably a good
39:22thing for, for him, allowing him
39:23to focus on the team.
39:25Yeah. His job, right? I think
39:27your point is a sound one.
39:28There's so much newness around
39:30this team and in very key spots,
39:32right? It's not just the head
39:33coach. It's the quarterback.
39:34It's the offensive coordinator.
39:36It's a whole offensive staff.
39:37The offensive line is still a
39:38concern. Uh, even the quarterback
39:40competition, it's not just Drake
39:42May, right? Jacoby preset is
39:43relatively new. Came back
39:44obviously from his rookie year.
39:46So all of that attention has
39:47gone over Mayo who all he needs
39:49to do so far right now, this
39:51feels like very early campaign
39:52we're in an election year,
39:53right? Like your earliest stops
39:55are more a style than substance.
39:57He doesn't have to talk policy
39:58yet in a way that could be
39:59measured or criticized in a
40:00substantive way, but you get
40:02into the season. Okay. You need
40:03to roll out like how you're
40:04actually going to govern if
40:05you're running for, let's say,
40:06president or whatever. And so
40:07once we get into that stuff,
40:09then I think to your point, like,
40:11yeah, it's going to be open
40:11season, but he can, uh, smile in
40:13front of the bikes. He can crack
40:14jokes. And that's not to say
40:15this is at all disingenuous.
40:17It's just who he is, but there
40:18haven't been serious decisions.
40:20The ones that we've gotten him
40:21on him for it. I say we, I
40:23exclude myself in this majority,
40:24but it was majority. Oh my God,
40:26only one preseason drive for
40:27Drake may. Well, what are the
40:28stakes of that? Okay. Like if he
40:30had played two or three more,
40:31are we really learning that much
40:32more because he was not going to
40:33play more than a quarter or a
40:35half in that game. So, um, to
40:37your second point about, is
40:39there anything, or second part
40:40of your question, is there
40:40anything I've seen the, the only
40:42thing I would highlight because
40:44in game management doesn't
40:45really count in the preseason,
40:46yada, yada, is the buy-in from
40:47the veterans. And it helps when
40:50you stuff a ton of money in
40:51their pockets, a la Hunter
40:52Henry and Jabril Peppers and
40:53Devon Gacho and all these guys
40:54on the way down, but they
40:56appreciate the changes he'd made
40:58in a way that's not just, all
40:59right, our workday is a little
41:00bit easier. Oh, we've got an
41:01Xbox now to PS five. It's, they
41:03believed in him before he was a
41:05head coach. And that's only
41:06grown since after. So that to me
41:08is important because as you
41:10know, if you have like a crappy
41:11boss, I'm sure, I don't know if
41:13your boss is crappy or not, but
41:14you could, you can imagine this
41:16if, uh, if it's a particularly
41:17hard day and you like your boss,
41:20you're a little bit more willing
41:21to get through the crappy parts
41:23of that day or whatever the
41:23project might be, uh, because of
41:25your respect for that person. If
41:27you don't, you're more likely to
41:29just watch the clock and try to
41:30run the day on my room.
41:32Yeah, for sure. A hundred
41:33percent. How do you like your
41:34boss? I don't think he listens
41:36or this person listens to this
41:37podcast. Is it okay? You're more
41:39new Mayo. Are they more built?
41:41Uh, I work for my family
41:43business, so, uh, I, uh,
41:44probably don't want to put too
41:45much. Well, I mean, this is kind
41:49of family business, right? They
41:50kept Elliot Wolfe, who was in
41:51the front office, uh, drawed
41:52Mayo, obviously came up in the
41:53system. So this is the, the
41:54parallels here. Um, uh, I don't
41:56want to ask about the family
41:57spending. That might be
41:58something, you know, for, for
41:59another day on top of the
42:00ownership, a little stickier.
42:01Uh, what, what do you think
42:02less? And we'll get you out on
42:03this, just things that you've
42:04seen for Mayo or maybe something
42:06you want to see from Mayo early
42:08on that would inspire your
42:09confidence as a fan, as an
42:11outsider, but someone following
42:12this team pretty closely.
42:13Yeah. I, I would say, like you
42:16said, in game management, you
42:17can't really say, can't really
42:18do much in the preseason. It's
42:21what happens with the, I guess,
42:24you know, I look at it, I'm, I'm
42:25a Notre Dame football fan and
42:27Marcus Freeman was a new coach,
42:30pretty similar kind of
42:31trajectory to Mayo at the end of
42:32the day, a young defensive
42:34coordinator, kind of
42:35unexpectedly coming into the
42:36team as the head coach by and
42:39from the players and his first
42:41year, there were times when
42:42you're like, Oh, wow, this team
42:45wasn't ready for the second half
42:48or this team got really up amped
42:50for one game, but they came down,
42:52they played down to their next
42:53opponent and in game management,
42:54Oh gosh, did they sequence it
42:57right at the end of the half so
42:58that they can get an extra
42:59possession or something like
43:00that? So I think there are very,
43:02there are things that he can
43:03practice. He's probably doing it
43:05during pre trying to do it
43:06during preseason games, during
43:07practice, during practices in
43:08terms of just kind of game
43:09management, you know, everyone
43:10in the back of their head has
43:11that Nathaniel Hackett kind of
43:13like, Oh no, could it be that
43:15bad? Yeah, exactly. I don't
43:17want to, don't want to bring
43:18that, uh, that aura over here,
43:21but you know, you don't know. I
43:23don't, I wasn't following the
43:25Broncos that much, but I don't
43:26think immediately everyone was
43:27like, Oh my gosh, he doesn't
43:28know how to coach for lack of a
43:30better term. Um, and we're not
43:32going to know that. I don't
43:33think that's going to be the
43:34case, but it's just getting a
43:36reps. Obviously Bill was the
43:39head coach for 25 years
43:41across two franchises. He knows
43:43he's seen everything. So he
43:45knows how to, how to sequence,
43:48how to make halftime adjustments.
43:50And the question is, is that
43:52there's, there's no place where
43:54Mayo is going to be able to do
43:56that year one. There's, I don't
43:58think anyone is expecting that,
43:59but it's showing that in game
44:02five versus game 15, hopefully
44:06there's some improvement.
44:07Yeah. You want to see progress
44:08same with the young team, which
44:10is what this is now. Same with
44:11the young players at quarterback
44:12and receiver on the offensive
44:13line, a couple on defense that
44:15you just want to see them get
44:16better. And I think to just a
44:18dismount here, it will be rough
44:20for stretches. Mayo is going to
44:21blow some game management, bad
44:23timeouts, different challenges,
44:25game plans that just put them in
44:26a 20 to zero hole immediately.
44:28Cause that's what rookie coaches
44:29do. And the thing is, to your
44:31point, you want to see them
44:33learn from it. I don't know if
44:34he will. I categorize this as a
44:36worthy gamble when he was hired
44:38based on the things that I had
44:39known at that point in time,
44:40which is all you can go off of
44:41though. The crafts apparently
44:41knew after three years, they
44:43wanted him to be the new coach
44:45in this magical trip to Israel.
44:46But the point is before it gets
44:49good, it's he's, he's a rookie.
44:51It's going to be rough. And I
44:52think everyone will have to
44:54endure it and he'll get
44:54criticized. And he knows that's
44:55coming. I will just be very
44:57curious how he is in a public
44:59sense, if, and when they're two
45:01and six, which we all expect.
45:02And that's not being unfair to
45:03them. What's it like that? And
45:05what's it like in the locker
45:06room? Does he still have guys
45:07going the extra mile for him
45:08when, you know, their highest
45:10hopes and dreams, and they might
45:11think some of them that they
45:12could push for the playoffs, who
45:13knows? Uh, but that's, that's
45:15the time where a coach really
45:16needs to be a head coach in a
45:17way that we don't always see on
45:18Sundays. All right. He's Joey
45:20shoddy. Don't ask him about his
45:21boss. It's a family business,
45:23but otherwise you could talk to
45:24him about the Patriots anytime.
45:25I'm sure we'll have you back in
45:26a little bit. Uh, thank you for
45:27donating. Thank you for being
45:28on the show and I'll, uh, we'll
45:29keep in touch. Right? Absolutely.
45:31Thanks for having me, Andrew.
45:32So one of the parts about being
45:33a Patriots beat writers, you get
45:34a lot of people, especially this
45:35time of year, starting to ask
45:36you, Hey, do you get access to
45:39tickets? Uh, no, I have a press
45:41pass. It's got my name only it's
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46:53the four minute draw reminder a
46:54Stevenson our third guest. I
46:56don't know if that offends you
46:57if you're honored to be here
46:58following Hunter Henry following
46:59pop Douglas, I just gave you the
47:00rundown. It's four minutes
47:01straight football questions
47:03alternated with non football
47:04questions. I'm going to start the
47:05clock and then we're going to go
47:06right? Yes, sir. Oh, and the only
47:08rule is everyone knows, unlike a
47:09real four minute drill, you
47:10cannot run out the clock. So we
47:11got to go a rapid five or talk
47:13real. All right, ready set. First
47:15one today essentially marks the
47:17end of training camp. Next week
47:19is a regular season style prep
47:21week. If I give you a little bit
47:22truth serum, how happy are you
47:23that you're done with camp?
47:25Uh, very happy. You know, it's a
47:26accomplishment to, you know, get
47:28through camp and it's a, you
47:29know, it's a long grind. So to
47:30be done with it, you know, it
47:31feels good.
47:32All right, very good. So you
47:34told me a story, I think last
47:35season, maybe two years ago
47:36about working at a Walmart. Once
47:38we were talking about odd jobs
47:39and there was this giant milk
47:40palette that spilled everywhere
47:43in the Walmart. You told me you
47:44had some sort of milk phobia.
47:45Can you update us on the milk
47:47phobia? Can you not smell it? Do
47:48you not want to see it? Obviously
47:49you don't want to drink it.
47:50Right. I haven't, I haven't even
47:51drank milk and so long, probably
47:55a couple of years. I don't eat
47:56cereal too much, anything like
47:57that. So after that, that, uh,
48:00pallet of milk fail, it was a
48:01rap because it was a smell,
48:02right? Yeah. It was just over
48:04it. All right. Glad to be at a
48:05Walmart back in some town, Las
48:06Vegas. Uh, let's go back to the
48:08field. The hardest hit you've
48:10taken in a game. I need the who
48:12the win and how to happen.
48:15Finger brothers clout. He used
48:16to play here. Uh, a land in
48:19Roberts. Ooh, yes. Dark grind.
48:21Yeah. It was actually, he hit me
48:23twice. I ain't gonna lie. My two
48:24hardest hits I took from a
48:25landing. So, uh, in my first
48:27game, he hit me and you know, we
48:30played them twice a year. The
48:30second game, he hit me. So Miami
48:3221, right in the season opener.
48:33Yep. Exactly. Yeah. Don't go look
48:35at the receipts either. Just
48:36believe me. Uh, did you see him
48:38in Pittsburgh at all? Uh, when
48:41he was with them? Nah, nah. All
48:43right. That's two football
48:43questions in a row. We're already
48:44breaking the rules here in the
48:45four minute drill. Um, Mayo has
48:48talked to us about this new
48:49players lounge. You got an X-Box
48:50in there. There's a PS five.
48:52There's pool. Give us a moment
48:53in there. Take us inside. I don't
48:54know if you're playing, but
48:55somebody else just take us inside
48:56the lounge. Oh yeah. Just what
48:57yesterday, uh, me and Kevin
48:58Harris, uh, last week. I ain't
49:00gonna lie. He beat me South
49:02Carolina against Oklahoma. I was
49:03Oklahoma. Of course he's South
49:05Carolina, but yesterday I got
49:07him back, uh, beat him with some
49:09plays. We run in practice. So it
49:11was kind of fun. Okay. Playing
49:12some NCAA. I still need to get
49:13that, but I also like my free
49:15time because I feel like I'm
49:16just get home and get sucked
49:17into it. All right. Um, all
49:18right. Two players in the
49:19locker room, one who would make
49:21the best roommate and someone
49:22who you would guess would make
49:24the worst roommate, best
49:25roommate. I would say, I'll say
49:31KB. Okay. He'll just get you
49:32ready in the morning, bring
49:33that energy and get you ready
49:34for your day. I feel like, and
49:37you said the worst, the worst
49:38roommate. Uh, I don't know if
49:39you're a neat guy. You don't
49:41mind a little slob or they're up
49:43late, but what, uh, we got 90
49:46seconds. I'm running the, the
49:49running the clock out. Yeah.
49:50You're gonna get delayed game.
49:52Where's the worst room? I'll say,
49:56uh, pop Douglas, bro. He played
49:59too much, but he's just too
50:01playful. He gonna be trying to,
50:03you know, talk mess all day. I'm
50:04not with that. I'm just trying
50:05to chill. Okay. All right. Uh,
50:08next question going off the
50:09field. Now, how does your mind
50:11Ray Stevenson deliver the bad
50:12news of breaking up with
50:14someone? Are you, are you a good
50:16breaker upper? Uh, I'm not, I'll
50:19just ghost you to be honest.
50:20Really? Yeah. And that's
50:22disrespect. I know. All right,
50:25let's look ahead. We find you're
50:26playing Cincy. You haven't seen
50:27these guys in a while since 22.
50:29Just give me one thought, an
50:31actual real thought, not canned
50:32like podium answer about facing
50:34the bagels. Uh, I know they have
50:35a great defense, uh, just how
50:37they fly around. It's not even
50:38the people, not even like the
50:40individual, just their defense
50:41as a whole. You know, they play,
50:42they play really nice together
50:43and they fly around. So
50:45hopefully we could, uh, match
50:47that offense. Would you play
50:48tomorrow if you could?
50:50Of course. Yeah. My body feel
50:51ready and I'm ready. All right.
50:52Last one. We got 20 seconds left.
50:54Uh, this is a staple on the four
50:55minute drill. What's your least
50:56favorite media question?
50:58Least favorite media question.
51:00Uh, when y'all asked me about
51:01the quarterbacks,
51:05cause you don't know what to say.
51:05You don't want to get in trouble.
51:07I don't know what to say. Like
51:08I'm out there with them, but like
51:09I'm not a quarterback. Right. I
51:10just know when he hands me off
51:11the ball, it's a good handle.
51:13Cool. All right. Well, I'm going
51:14to hand it back to Jackson, our
51:15producer here. That's four
51:16minutes with a reminder.
51:16Stevenson appreciate you, bro.
51:18Yes, sir. Thank you.
51:19All right.