In this episode of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast, Greg rifles through some BSJ member questions that touched on why QBs fail, playing Drake Maye earlier than expected, options at LT and WR via trade, what would be a successful season, and much more!
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00:00This is the Gregg Bedard Patriots Podcast with Nick Cattles.
00:08Everybody, welcome into the Gregg Bedard Patriot Podcast.
00:12Gregg Bedard here. Nick Cattles is not here through no fault of his own.
00:17I am actually in the midst of baseball and softball, travel ball hell this summer and where I am right now.
00:27The Wi-Fi is iffy at best and I just didn't, there was no chance that Nick and I would have a productive conversation going back and forth.
00:36So I will be doing this solo and we will be doing a straight mailbag off of my BSJ member chat that I had earlier this week.
00:46I think it hits on a lot of topics that probably a lot of you guys are worried about.
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01:49So let's get right into it. We'll see how many we can tick off in the next 20 to 30 minutes.
01:57So Plown09 has a couple of questions for me.
02:01He said, what do you believe causes the high draft picks to fail at a higher rate,
02:06the talent of the individual QB or the QB situation, i.e. coaching development of the QB, organizational pressure to put the high pick in?
02:15I would say it's a combination of both things. I think we've talked about these things before,
02:20but I am very... are there guys that are just rare beasts that are the elite of the elite that can kind of succeed in any sort of environment?
02:36Yeah, I guess. I mean, but you look at guys like Patrick Mahomes.
02:40He sat for a year. You look at Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning when they came into the league,
02:45into tough situations and they barely won any games their first year.
02:51But as the talent around them got better, as they got more experience, they got better.
02:57But I do think, I think it's a combination of both things.
02:59I think that, you know, normally when these quarterbacks go into situations, when they're high draft picks, it's not a good situation.
03:08And you couple that with the pressure to sell something to the fan base, a hope with a young quarterback.
03:16I think a lot of these guys get rushed into things where, you know, really you need to individually assess the quarterback.
03:22You know, where is he? How far away is he from being a really good NFL quarterback?
03:29And don't rush it. I know the temptation is there to rush it, but I just think that's the wrong thing.
03:36The second question was, you said in your podcast that you believe that Wolfe and Mayo have two years to show organizational improvement.
03:43If the Pats rush May and put them in early, wouldn't that move up the clock and pressure on Wolfe and Mayo?
03:50Wouldn't it be in their best interest to give Mayo a full year footwork and processing development?
03:56Yeah, I agree with that. And that's part of the reason why I think they're going to take the conservative approach with May.
04:03I think a lot of it will ultimately depend on what we see this summer in training camp.
04:07I mean, look, you know, I'm not going to discount that all of a sudden May, with a lot of offseason work,
04:14with the quarterback coach that he's working with, he'll have his marching orders from the Patriots,
04:19that May hits training camp and makes rapid progression.
04:23And if he does that, I don't rule, I don't completely rule it out him starting week one.
04:29But if you read my column this week on the offensive line, I think it would give you pause about, you know,
04:36rushing Drake May out there too early. I mean, I would rather see this team get set.
04:43There's a bunch of other things, especially the offensive line that need to be sorted out.
04:47And I don't want Drake May to be the guinea pig. I don't want him to be the test tube baby for,
04:53all right, can Cole Foer play left tackle? Can Caden Wallace play right tackle?
04:58Can Michael Wenew play at the same level at right guard? Is Siddy Soe any good?
05:03Can David Andrews make the transition into this zone blocking scheme or not?
05:08A lot of those things I don't have big concerns about, and I think it's overblown.
05:12And I think a lot of it is just sort of talk show material for us in this dead time.
05:19I think they'll get sorted out if Scott Peters is the offensive line coach that the Patriots think he is,
05:26but we'll have to see on that.
05:33Jonathan Simons says, if management somehow finds a way to fill left tackle and wide receiver positions with competent players,
05:43which other positions could the team look at to upgrade to manage a winning season?
05:48First of all, I think and if any of you guys have been listening to me or reading me at BSJ,
05:56especially in the member chats, you know that I pretty much quickly shoot down any sort of notion
06:03that the Patriots are going to land some sort of great left tackle at any point, anytime soon.
06:10There is a dearth of good tackles in this league, both tackles.
06:15You really need to develop them from within.
06:17You need to have a plan very much like the Eagles have had, where they keep drafting guys and even guys with,
06:23you know, you look at Jordan Mailata, who came in as a complete project,
06:27and all of a sudden he's one of the best left tackles.
06:29Of course, they have Stoutland, the coach there, who is one of the best offensive line coaches in history,
06:37and they allow him the time, they give him people to work with, and I think that's the way to go.
06:43And to put back to the tackles, teams are not giving up offensive tackles.
06:51Even if, for the reasons I laid out, even if a guy maybe doesn't immediately hit,
06:58they're going to hold on to those guys because they could hit in the future
07:04and they don't get much coaching in the college ranks. It's very much a developmental position.
07:09You know, I think the Patriots need to get into the habit very quickly of bringing in guys who have a chance to play left tackle in this league
07:17and just figuring it out, developing them.
07:20That's, you really need almost a offensive line university if you want to get ahead of the game in the NFL right now.
07:28Wide receiver also, you know, do I think they're going to look to make a deal?
07:34Yeah, probably at some point. You know, there was a report that I know people like to talk about Brandon Aiyuk of the 49ers.
07:43There was a report recently from Tom Palacero that basically said they met and they are,
07:48they both sides feel good that they are working towards an extension.
07:51You know, the word that I get out of San Francisco is that Debo Samuel and all of his injuries and unreliability.
07:57I think once the guy available, Brandon Aiyuk is in the 49ers are going to hold on to him.
08:04Now, T. Higgins, I don't expect him to be available.
08:09The Mike Brown, the owner of the Bengals, pretty much if you look at his history,
08:14even if guys are squawking about a contract, he takes it to the end.
08:19And I think Higgins will be a free agent after the season.
08:23Considering where the Patriots are right now,
08:25I think probably the best case scenario for them is sort of get the program on its tracks this year,
08:32look for improvement, play the young kids at a variety of positions.
08:38Hopefully you make improvement at the end of the year.
08:40And then in the offseason, if they have a high pick, look for tackle.
08:44They are going to have money to spend again.
08:48So maybe you look for the wide receiver and maybe now you overpay a little bit more.
08:53I'd rather overpay for T. Higgins than Calvin Ridley.
08:56I think Higgins is a true number one.
08:59I think Ridley is a number two at best.
09:04I mean, I guess he could be a number one in certain situations, but that's what I would look to do.
09:13Pat's Jam, our buddy over there, asked.
09:17This is sort of a long-winded question, but I think it's a good one.
09:22Greg.
09:23Hey Greg, would you consider a scenario similar to below as a positive season?
09:28Pats have a good, very good defense that is top five to seven in the league to keep them in most games.
09:33They have an awful offense that is in the bottom three of the league for the first 12-ish games with bad line play,
09:38low points and inconsistent QB play.
09:40We see some breakout games from Polk in May start by the second half of the season.
09:46And by the last few games, we see an offense that has a couple of breakout games with an offensive line that offers some consistency.
09:52They only win four to six games, but the last three or four games look like a better potential to be a real NFL offense versus the first 10 to 12 on offense.
10:02But it's clear, not nearly enough talent on the roster.
10:08So a couple of different things about this question.
10:11First of all, if the Patriots win six games after winning four games last year,
10:15and if it looks like they're on the upswing at the end of the year,
10:19and especially if Drake May is involved and Polk's involved, and there's some stability on the offensive line.
10:25Yeah, if they get the six win... remember, before this offseason, I haven't really changed yet.
10:30We'll see once we get to camp.
10:32But like sort of, I want to see seven wins.
10:35I want them to... that's what I expect.
10:37I don't expect them to go back.
10:40I don't think that's fair to anybody.
10:43I thought the team was better than four wins last year.
10:46And they had a lot of close games and a lot of turnovers and a lot of bad offense.
10:51If they can cut down on the turnovers and be a little bit more productive on offense,
10:58then yes, they have a tougher schedule, whatnot, but six, seven, eight wins somewhere in there.
11:04I would consider that a better season.
11:07But under that scenario, that pass jam lays out, if it's four wins again,
11:13but the scenario that he's laying out, no, it's not a successful season to me.
11:20You know, to me, there's no excuse for them not to be better.
11:24I mean, they have to be better.
11:25A couple games better would be fine, I guess.
11:28Six and 11, but four and 13 again?
11:33No, no! I don't care what it looks like.
11:36Another four win season is not a positive season for me.
11:43But I will withhold, I will say depending on how Drake May looks, you know, we can talk about that.
11:53We'll be back in just a second.
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13:18This is a good one from RyguyUNH12. Go Wildcats, I think.
13:25If the emergence of Keon White carries over from minicamp,
13:28does it open up the possibility of him getting subrush opportunities outside?
13:32He'd been projected previously as an interior rusher on passing downs,
13:36but it seems like he's been regularly disruptive so far this spring.
13:42And would such a move make Judon expendable?
13:47So, interesting question.
13:50I do think that Keon White, and we saw him almost exclusively outside during minicamp,
13:58some of which, well, Judon was there. He was in and out, but also OTA practices.
14:04I do think if they think Keon White is sort of a stand-up Leo type outside backer,
14:12strong side, especially considering his strength, that's sort of what Judon can do.
14:19I do think it would make them think about moving Matthew Judon.
14:25As we've previously discussed on here, I do think Judon's contract is an issue for him.
14:32I don't know how big of an issue he's going to make out of it.
14:35He's already doing a good job with the PR spin on it, but I do... he wants to get paid more.
14:41And you know, that will be interesting to see how they do that.
14:46Now, here's the thing about moving Judon.
14:51One, I think they would be... they wouldn't love to do that, especially it's Mayo's first year.
14:56The defense is his baby, that sort of thing.
14:59And you look at it, you know, as of right now on one side,
15:05you basically have Anthony Jennings and Josh Uche as a platoon.
15:10Jennings on early downs, Uche as a pass rusher.
15:15They could do the same thing on the other side.
15:18Remember last year before Judon got hurt, because he played so many snaps the year before,
15:23the Patriots wouldn't put him out there for every snap.
15:28Now, as the game, you know, evolved, they would do that.
15:33As it got deeper into the game, they would play him more.
15:35But especially early in games to limit the wear and tear on him,
15:40they would bring Judon off the bench.
15:44And I think we could see a scenario where Keon White's playing the early downs.
15:50Judon comes in and White slips inside as a sub rusher.
15:54Of course, these are passing downs that we're talking about.
15:58You know, that I think it would make a lot of sense if you have Judon, Keon White, Christian Barmore,
16:06Josh Uche as sort of your sub rushers.
16:09I could see that.
16:13But, you know, I do think Keon White excites me and what he's able to do.
16:19I think he's a phenomenal athlete.
16:22And I think he does have a chance to do some real damage as an every down stand up guy on the outside.
16:31Judon's not quite as effective as that.
16:33But I'm sure they'll have all sorts of different packages where they're, you know, moving guys.
16:37And it doesn't really matter where you start, you know, because Judon could be inside.
16:41And then, you know, White crashes down and Judon loops around.
16:45We see all that stuff all the time.
16:48But I do think in general, I do think if Keon White continues on this path,
16:54it could make Judon expendable sooner rather than later.
16:57I mean, maybe we get to a situation where by the trading deadline,
17:03maybe the Patriots are sort of floundering and they get a chance to move Judon for something in the future
17:08and just play White more.
17:10But I would say the odds are probably slightly better that they stick as is.
17:14They bump Judon up a little bit more.
17:17And they see what they have on defense with all those guys.
17:22StrangeBrew17 says, Do you think that Amari Cooper could be a possibility?
17:28Pats have money and coaching staff familiarity that could make it work.
17:32He could be a one for now while the Pats develop the offense.
17:36Do you think Wolf makes the call?
17:39Interesting. I am not an Amari Cooper guy.
17:43I don't think he's that tough.
17:45When he was in Dallas, he would tap out of games late.
17:48If you remember a Patriots game here at Gillette,
17:55Cooper wasn't out there at the end of the game when the Cowboys,
17:58I think, were trying to either finish off the game or come back. I forget.
18:02But he also has a reputation for not liking the cold weather.
18:07But look, that's what I think.
18:11I'm certainly not the end-all be-all.
18:13And guys like Alex Van Pelt and the old Cleveland guys and Elliot Wolf,
18:20I don't know if he was there when they got Cooper.
18:22But let's just tell you, Alex Van Pelt will certainly have an opinion on Amari Cooper.
18:27It might be different than mine. I'm not sure.
18:30But if he's available, which he could be, I mean, I guess we'll know pretty quickly.
18:35Because if Cooper, if they think Cooper does have that chance to help them on the outside,
18:40then they would do that if Alex Van Pelt really likes Cooper.
18:45We'll have to see on that.
18:46But the other thing you have to remember about this regime, especially Elliot Wolf,
18:51is coming from the way the Packers do things,
18:53they would rather play the kids and have them learn on the fly and be better a year from now,
19:01two years from now, than bring in some productive,
19:07but could be trending downward veteran guy that plays in front of those players.
19:12So that's something you also have to keep in mind.
19:20And related to that, Mark Bennett, if the top end for the Patriots this year is eight wins and no playoffs,
19:25does it make any sense to sign an older veteran, especially if the price is much above the minimum?
19:31Again, you know, not really in terms of his question.
19:37That's the Wolf approach. Like, you know, why?
19:42Why bring in veterans? Why spend the money?
19:45Why curtail the development of some of your younger players if the Patriots really aren't going anywhere this year?
19:52It's really to me, it's about 2025 and to make decisions, let kids play, see if they have it, let them learn on the fly,
20:00let them improve and then hit the ground running in 2025.
20:04Why put an aging veteran who's probably cost a lot more that is costing you,
20:10say, your financial package to a Tee Higgins a year from now?
20:16You know, why do that?
20:22Let's see, B.H. Saunders asked, the Pats re-signed everybody.
20:28How much of that is because one, they had a lot of cap space and needed to spend?
20:33Two, no one else wanted their guys.
20:35Three, they are legitimately premium players and deserving of their contracts.
20:40Or four, the Pats overpaid to create a new culture.
20:43The extent that it's for, the motivation is self-serving in that this new regime could quickly see its credibility collapse with a losing program.
20:51Okay, a couple of things to straighten out.
20:53Number one, the Patriots didn't need to spend.
20:57I mistakenly said that for a while.
21:00I know, you know, like Mike Felger also said that.
21:05Somebody, one of the members on here on BSJ actually corrected me and he was correct.
21:10I didn't realize this.
21:11I thought it was a true up every year in terms of how much you have to spend.
21:16Or at least, you know, if you didn't spend a lot the previous year, then you have to spend more the next year.
21:22I figured the union would have put that in.
21:24They did not.
21:25In fact, it's a three-year window which just ended where you have to hit the 90% threshold.
21:32And so, the Patriots are starting.
21:34This is a new three-year cycle.
21:36So, they don't have to spend anything this year.
21:38Now, by the end of three years, the average needs to be 90%.
21:42Maybe they're expecting to, you know, spend a lot next year.
21:46But also, let's point out the Patriots have spent a lot of money this year.
21:53Yes, it's on their own guys.
21:56I'm just looking up NFL cash spending.
22:03Let's see if it comes up on my crappy internet.
22:06But the Patriots have, first of all, they've over, we've talked about the Patriots being a cash to cap team,
22:15which basically is like their budget is what the cap is.
22:19And I think the cap this year was $225 million.
22:25The Patriots have spent over that this year.
22:29In terms of cash spending, the Patriots are 11th.
22:33The Patriots have spent $285 million this year.
22:37Only 3.6 million of that is dead cap.
22:42So, the Patriots have spent this year.
22:46Philly has spent $345 million, which is about, I don't know.
22:56I'm not good at math.
22:58But about $50 million, $60 million more than the Patriots.
23:01So, let me point that out.
23:04Number two, I don't think it was because no one else wanted their guys.
23:10I don't think that that is, in fact, correct.
23:13I think all of the players that they paid have some value out there.
23:17A lot of value in a lot of cases.
23:21I think it's a split between three and four.
23:25I don't disagree with them spending on any of the guys that they did.
23:30They do the right things.
23:32But I do think it is sort of starting off the Mayo regime on the right foot.
23:38You know, this certainly has its pitfalls.
23:41About, like, if you pay player X a certain amount, what's player Y going to think?
23:47And I do think that they, maybe the Patriots, I don't know if they've been surprised by it.
23:52But they have gotten blowback internally on the Christian Barmore contract.
23:57And it's going to be interesting to see how they go forward with that.
24:06Let's see.
24:07Tuckmar says, proposal to get Aiyuk.
24:09Again, I don't think he's available as we can't give the first.
24:15I think he's talking about the first round pick next year, which could be top 10.
24:18How about a two in Judon?
24:20Judon isn't in our long-term plans.
24:23Judon adds to a D on a team trying to win a Super Bowl and on a short-term deal,
24:27which probably fits their timeline.
24:30I do like it.
24:32If you're including Judon, I'm hoping more for like a three.
24:37Remember, if you were able to get Aiyuk, which I don't think he's available,
24:43you're still going to have to pay him a crap ton of money.
24:46So it's not only what you're giving up as a trade,
24:54but it's what you're giving up financially.
24:56So you're giving them a third round pick and a bonafide NFL pass rusher,
25:02and you're going to pay a wide receiver $30 million a year.
25:08That's a lot.
25:09That's a lot as far as compensation.
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26:41A couple more to finish off.
26:47This is a good question from a Texas New England fan.
26:51What can the staff possibly see in shorts and shells to feel good about a left tackle?
26:55No disrespect to Chooks, but how are they sold that he can play there when he hasn't lined up at left tackle since college?
27:06It's a good point by Tex.
27:08It's a fair point.
27:10All I can tell you is that's the information that I'm getting from inside.
27:13I do think I have liked what I've seen out of Okor for in practice.
27:19He certainly looks the part.
27:20He moves well.
27:22He's a smart guy.
27:25Seems to me that, you know, he could be a solid left tackle
27:28and that's all I'm really looking for at this point.
27:32I don't know how the Patriots possibly develop a left tackle of the future, whether that's guys currently on the roster or not.
27:41But I do think it's fair to ask and it's fair to point out, like, the Patriots could be, you know, involved in, you know, self-deception.
27:52Illusion.
27:54Maybe a little delusion that they, look, this is what they did.
27:59This is the guy that the front office identified.
28:02They could just be very optimistic and wishing that this is going to happen and it might not.
28:10And I think I wrote this this week when I talked about the offensive line and what's going on and some of the some of the worries.
28:20You know, I've seen plenty of guys who have looked great in shorts.
28:25And then all of a sudden the pads come on and, you know, they're not as tough and they tap out a little bit.
28:32And, you know, really, it's about it's about toughness and physical toughness.
28:36And, you know, sure, a core four moves well right now and looks the part.
28:42But the pad get on and Keon White's kicking his ass and Matthew Judon's chugging him in the chest and he's getting he's getting beaten down.
28:54It could be certainly something different. And so that's why you can't tell anything until the pads go on.
29:00You got to take some of the stuff we're hearing internally with a grain of salt.
29:04But yeah, I think we're I think the jury is still very much out.
29:15Laura from the old site.
29:18Hi, Greg, do you think the efficiency with which Mayo runs training camp practices may be an early sign of his capacity to handle the head coaching job?
29:27I do. I look, I've seen worse practices.
29:32I just don't think they're hugely efficient.
29:35But then again, I don't know what Gerard Mayo's aim is in terms of what he's trying to develop.
29:41I don't think they were very efficient.
29:43I think they, you know, a lot of times we would have seen the Patriots doing, you know, double barrel on to practice fields like, you know, getting reps for a bunch of people instead of just on one field.
29:53And there's, you know, forty five. There's like 60 people standing around, you know, watching, you know, but maybe they just wanted to set a certain tone.
30:06I'm not sure. I'm definitely keeping an open mind.
30:12But yeah, I'm a little bit worried about it. We'll have to see how training camp goes and we'll go from there.
30:19I think that's going to wrap it up, everybody. Thanks for tuning in.
30:24I think Nick and I will be back on Friday to talk about some things.
30:30And because I will be back in town and make sure you go over to prize picks and use the code CLNS for first deposit match up to 100 bucks.
30:43Get in on that UFC special and also game time. Download the game time app.
30:49Use code CLNS for twenty dollars off your first purchase. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed.
30:56Thanks, everybody. And we will see you soon.
31:19.