LIVE Patriots Daily_ Recapping Day 1 of Minicamp

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Transcript

00:00What up, what up, what up? What's going on, everybody? Welcome back into another edition

00:24of the Patriots Daily Podcast here on the CLNS Media Network, powered by PrizePix and

00:31GameTime. I am Mike Kadlec. He is Taylor Kiles, CLNS Media's lead Patriots Bee reporter, and

00:37we are here to discuss what happened down in Foxborough today because the Patriots started

00:42their mandatory minicamp. So, had some OTAs, had some workouts, had some stuff, but all

00:48that was voluntary until today, where now players essentially, they are able to be fined

00:55if they don't show up. So it's like a three-day burnout, get in here, get some work done,

01:00and then essentially go away for the rest of the summer and come back for training camp.

01:04So the Patriots are here, three days. It was announced before practice by Gerard Mayo that

01:09they will not practice on Tuesday, so they are taking tomorrow off from practice, and

01:13they will instead do some sort of team activity. We're not 100% sure what the deal is there.

01:18Two days of practice and one down today. Taylor, we just got back. We got our observations up and

01:26pretty much ready on the website, but overall, we'll get into all of it. We're going to talk

01:31about Drake Mayo. We're going to talk about the offensive line, some defensive secondary stuff,

01:35some hold-ins, someone who could be a holdout. We'll get to all that, but first and foremost,

01:40Taylor, overall impressions and observations and thoughts from what we saw down there today,

01:46Yeah, first and foremost, if you see me tear up or cry or anything, just know Liz is making dinner.

01:52She's cutting up some onions, and they're kind of waffling upstairs, so I just want to get that out

01:55of the way in case someone's like, what is going on with him? I mean, as good as Drake May was,

01:59I didn't quite get emotional, but I guess we start with the guys who actually came to practice for

02:04the first time. So Matthew Judon and Devon Godshaw for the first time since we started doing these

02:09open periods of practice. Matthew Judon, as Gerard Mayo told us before, was a full participant.

02:15We saw him in team drills, which was much different from last year, where he seemed like

02:20he was kind of holding in, waiting for a new contract. There was some talk that maybe it was

02:23health-related, whatever, but as soon as he got that money, we saw him more active. But this year,

02:29we really did see him participating in all the drills with what looked like the top unit,

02:32so that was significant. Devon Godshaw, however, was not participating. He had his helmet on,

02:38he had a hoodie, but he didn't have his jersey on, and we didn't really see him.

02:42It's really been Jeremiah Farms has been the primary nose tackle. He's been like far more

02:46in a qual on everything, but he didn't participate. And I think the reason is that he has no guaranteed

02:52money and is in the last year of his deal. So he is slated to make a good amount of money,

02:57especially for a nose tackle, but you'd also understand for a guy who this will be his

03:02third contract, probably wants some more job security. So maybe just looking for an extension

03:07that'll keep him in Fox for a little bit longer. And I mean, they had one of the best run defenses

03:12the past decade, so you can also understand why he'd wanna get paid. So those are pretty

03:17significant. Jarrod Mayo said that everyone was present. There were a bunch of players who were

03:22not actually participating on the field, likely due to injury, like Kendrick Bourne was out there,

03:27obviously was participating. Sione Takitaki, Jelani Tavai, Joshua Uche was not there.

03:33And then Jake Andrews and Cole Strange were both guys. I think everybody but Joshua Uche

03:37was on the field at some point. So that was cool to see everybody getting back. Jarrod Mayo said

03:42the point of today was to try to get the guys who hadn't been here integrated and to continue

03:46to build. So yeah, I feel like attendance is the thing we probably gotta start off with. It was

03:50nice to see Judon back out there. Yeah, definitely. That's the one part that you hit on it a little

03:56bit that was interesting to me and I guess noteworthy was that everybody who was not there

04:01as sort of a participant, you talked about Takitaki, Uche, Tavai, Andrews, Strange, Bourne,

04:07the only one that was a complete, I guess, no-show, if you want to call it that,

04:11at least on the field from what we could see, was Joshua Uche. So that's something, I guess,

04:16to monitor. But also, look, like Godshaw is obviously a contract thing, a hold-in thing.

04:22What do you just say? I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure this out.

04:24You looked like there was like vodka in your water bottle or something.

04:27No, no, it was vodka in my eyes. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. Okay. No, you're good. But the only one to

04:35keep an eye on and see where it goes is Uche. And look, is it a holdout? No, it can't be because

04:42he just signed a one-year deal and he took a hometown discount and something that he basically

04:47admitted to while we talked to him over the last couple of months. So I don't think that's

04:51obviously a holdout situation. You wonder, is he sick, whatever. He was just in the area.

04:55He just held a camp out in Newton, Mass., I believe, a couple last week.

05:00My old stomping grounds. Yeah, exactly.

05:04I helped out coach. That was pretty fun. That was cool.

05:05Yeah. So Uche is around. I wouldn't worry about it, but something to monitor. And everybody else,

05:09again, Taki Taki, we haven't seen him. He was supposed to talk to us several times. He was

05:17slated to be one of the six guys. And he has been out with what we think is an injury for quite

05:22some time. So again, it's early. It's June 10th. You've seen him in street clothes, but we haven't

05:26seen him on the field. And that's generally the procedure. If you're hurt, you don't usually play.

05:31So I don't know why that was even an option. That was kind of confusing, but yeah, I know

05:35it's happened multiple times. So, all right. Was he nursing something from Cleveland or is

05:40this an off-season injury for him? You don't know. Nobody. Okay. Not sure. So I don't know either.

05:44But again, we'll keep an eye on those guys. But again, a lot of guys now, Jonathan Jones is back.

05:50Christian Barmore is back. So a lot of those cornerstone pieces that were sort of back and

05:56forth in the off-season program. Matthew Judon, obviously all there today. So a good sign overall.

06:02There's someone that we haven't seen since our rookie minicamp. He's somebody maybe sliding

06:06under the radar, but someone that people should be keeping an eye on. The Patriots do need a third

06:11running back in Fenwicz, a guy who's older, but doesn't have a lot of tread on the tires.

06:15He's a versatile guy. Not like he's exceptional in anything. He's more of a jack of all trades,

06:19but he's physical. He really fits the kind of mold they like. And because he's older,

06:23you kind of can assume he's probably on the more mature side. So it was cool to see him back

06:27because I think Terrell Jennings, who I believe he's also dinged up, but he was really one of the

06:33lead guys in terms of the backup running back. So seeing Fenwicz back in the lineup was also

06:38notable, I thought. For sure. All right. Let's not bury the lead here. Drake May, quarterback,

06:44the number three overall pick, looked great again today. Noteworthy that he did once again,

06:51take reps right behind Jacoby Brissette, ahead of Bailey Zappi once again. So

06:57I don't want to call it fast tracks. I don't think they're doing this too fast, but he is certainly

07:04essentially confirmed as the number two quarterback here. Not that he ever wouldn't be,

07:08and not that Bailey was going to be the backup for long, but they made May earn his stripes a

07:12little bit early on in OTAs and he was going behind Zappi or whatever. But look, it's time.

07:17He is clearly the number two quarterback right now. And he had a pretty good day. I'll let you

07:21get into the nitty gritty of it, but overall, thought he looked really good today. He looks

07:26like he is really taking some command of the offense when he's out there, quick decision making.

07:33And then the arm is just always on full display. He just, whether he hits guys in stride, whether

07:38he throws away from a defender, whatever, he knows where he wants to put the ball.

07:42And more often than not, he's able to put it there. So another solid showing from May,

07:46but what did you think overall from what we saw from him? And if you can

07:50sort of dive into it a little bit more of what you observed today.

07:53Yeah. So I don't really want to say he bounced back from last week because we don't know what's

07:57going on behind the scenes. We only get access to certain practices. But based on what we saw

08:02where last week, sometimes he's an experience did show where he had the interception at Juju,

08:06where the accuracy was off. There was the miscommunication between him and Antonio

08:10Gibson where it was intercepted. And then there were points where it seemed like he may have

08:14gotten in his head a little bit, seemed a little more hesitant. His play just kind of dropped off.

08:19Today was totally different. The only incompletion he had during the early team drills was on an

08:24incompletion. That was one of the best throws we've seen in camp where there were so many times

08:28he would throw passes and you're looking at where it's going and you're like, this guy's blanketed.

08:32This better be a perfect pass. And lo and behold, it is. My favorite was the one to LaMichael Petway

08:38where he has a receiver or defender right on his hip. Drake may put somewhere only his guy can get

08:42it. And you saw that consistently where the accuracy and the ball placement keeps coming out.

08:47Also the aggressiveness. That's what you really love from these young quarterbacks is I felt like

08:51last week we saw once he made the mistakes, he might've pulled back a little bit. But today,

08:55like the first one he had to Petway where he actually wrestled it away from a defender.

09:00He puts it up there and gives his guy a chance. And again, this is LaMichael Petway. Like this

09:03isn't Hunter Henry, a guy will know he's going to win Drake saying, and it's a continuation of what

09:08we saw in college where he doesn't really care who he's throwing to. He's going to give you a

09:11chance to make plays. I thought we saw that pretty consistently throughout the day. I'm

09:15just trying to look through my notes to make sure I don't leave anything out. Oh, also like the

09:19mobility and the arm slots. You saw a few times, like when, when the windows are a little tighter

09:25because there's a defender there, or if the pocket's not great, you'll see him kind of put

09:29that arm sideways and let it rip. And it's also accurate. Like sometimes we've seen Bailey Zappi

09:34adopt kind of a sidearm throw and the results are a little up and down, but with Drake, it shows up

09:39and it looks good. There was another one he had to Jalen Polk where Drake has some of the coolest

09:44throws that don't go beyond five yards that you'll see where there's one pocket's kind of

09:49collapsing around him. He steps up, keeps his cool. And then he's on the run, gets a sidearm

09:54arm throw to Jalen Polk. And again, it was just a throw to the flat. It wasn't anything crazy,

09:59but the composure and the decisiveness really stood out when pressure came in around him.

10:04You saw he's going through his reach quickly, hitting his check downs without really hesitating.

10:08It's always hard to judge if they're making the right decisions, because sometimes you can look

10:12at the film like you're doing a game and say, ah, he may have gone through the reeds too quickly.

10:16Even in college, it's not like he wouldn't check the ball down. Sometimes he checked the ball down

10:20too quickly and was a little too eager to do that. So it's hard to know exactly what was going on,

10:25but from what we could see, I thought it was his best practice kind of by far. I don't think we

10:29saw him being this consistent. The entire offense kind of went off the rails a bit once we saw the

10:34end of half situations. A lot of that was just because you didn't see a ton of separation.

10:38Sometimes the defensive line was impacting that. So it was other than the Bailey's happy pick six,

10:44there weren't a ton of plays where you're like, yeah, the quarterback really messed up.

10:47Right. Yeah. Drake had a really good practice. I also want to give you a couple percent his

10:51flowers. He's still doing a really good job keeping the offense on schedule.

10:55Had one throw to pop Douglas in the back of the end zone where pop like

10:58screamed and then spiked the ball. That was a really good throw. So

11:02they continues to be a productive quarterback competition between Drake,

11:05main Jacoby percent. But with the strides you're seeing where Jacoby even said like

11:10you're seeing this kid basically grow on the field every day.

11:13And it's the kind of thing where he's going to be putting in work once there's a break. Like,

11:17yeah, it kind of seems like it's summer vacation. It's not especially quarter blocks. Like guys are

11:22going to their trainers. They have regiments. They're finding ways that they can just continue

11:26to build before training camp. I'm excited to see what kind of growth we end up seeing from

11:30Drake may after that period and how much he can really start competing more for that QB one job.

11:35Because I don't think it's a legit competition right now, but you can absolutely see with the

11:41talent that Drake shows at the mental side of the game is consistent. Once the pads come on

11:45at some point, the way I see it is that if he's beating the top defense, they're going to be like,

11:51yo, we need to put this guy in. We all love Jacoby, but you can't really beat this guy.

11:55And if we're having trouble with him, he should be the starter. I don't care if,

11:59you know, maybe the offensive line has to figure things out. Maybe the receiving

12:02core isn't where you want it to be. Not everyone gets a perfect situation,

12:05but I think this is a solid enough team where he can elevate guys and really turn this into

12:10a more competitive group than maybe what it would be with Jacoby percent if he starts in place.

12:15Yeah. You said that to me today when we were, we were standing there watching practice,

12:18we were like, Hey, wait, if he keeps this up, like Drake could start. And I kind of gave you

12:22the look like, hell are you talking about here? Like let's pump the brakes here a little bit,

12:26but then, you know, I'm sure it is early. So it's early, but you know, I was sitting there

12:31kind of thinking about it in real time and I was like, well, you know, they wanted to be ready and

12:35you know, they, they should take it slow and this and that. And then I kind of talked to myself

12:38like, but, but he looks good now it's only June. If he goes through the summer, like you said,

12:42he comes out in training camp and lights it up. That means he's ready. Like, and so there's,

12:47it's almost like a, what are we waiting for situation? If he can play well, he looks good,

12:52is elevating the receivers around them that, you know, aren't, you know, the, the A-list,

12:55uh, you know, receiver groups like, uh, like teams like Cincy and whatnot have like,

13:01just let them go out there. And yeah, the offensive line, you know what, we're going to

13:03talk about the offensive line in a minute, but you know, the offensive line is sort of, uh,

13:08disarray is a strong word, but, you know, kind of mismatched in, in different, you know, guys

13:12playing in different places, places right now trying to figure it out. But if he can get over

13:16all of that stuff, then there's no reason to not play him, get him more reps early on,

13:20see what he can sort of see if he can learn on the fly and, you know,

13:23make better decisions when he sees more live defenses, other than just some, you know,

13:27the ones that are here. But I mean, you're right. If he's beating the Patriots defense,

13:31which is at least top half of the league, if not top 10, closer to top five, like

13:35he can play in this league. So again, we'll see what happens. He looked really good today.

13:39There was a funny moment. I know you kind of tweeted out and captured a little bit where he

13:43made that sidearm play to Jalen Polk you're talking about. And then me, you and Brian

13:47Hines looked over and you see a Jabril peppers, like mimic him. He like jumped up and threw in

13:51the air, like kind of like looking like Patrick Mahomes, whatever. So they're loving it. The

13:55teammates like him. So again, if, if he's out there making plays against this defense and

14:00everyone's like, yo, why isn't this guy playing? You might as well put them in Jacobi. Jacobi

14:05Brissette knows his place. He knows what he's here for. So he's on a one-year deal. He could

14:09be the backup if he has to like, it's no problem with him. So we'll see where this thing goes

14:13again. It's super early, but you're right. Today was for sure the best practice we've seen Drake

14:18may have. So mentioned that one of the sort of obstacles they're going to have to jump through

14:23is that offensive line. So we'll get to the offensive line in a second, but first let's

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15:58More football and not really paying attention, but he's also been all over the Celtics.

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16:14So let's get to the offensive line Taylor, because, uh, there was a bit of a shakeup today.

16:19Um, as many of us noted when we were down there, um, well, we talked about it last week,

16:23actually to Caden Wallace, who, uh, is the, I guess, left tackle prodigy that they're trying

16:29to hopefully, you know, turn him into, he was the third round pick, uh, out of Penn state.

16:34And last week he was playing a lot of right tackle and we went back and forth about it a

16:38little bit on here where I thought that, you know, they should be putting them at left tackle.

16:41And you said, no, just, you know, kind of, kind of take it easy. Uh, well today we saw him playing

16:46more right tackle. And then we also saw Mike on window playing right guard. So a position where

16:51on one who obviously gets the big extension this year, I forget the, you know, the term of the

16:55numbers, but big extension, um, Gerard Mayo says they're going to play him at right tackle.

17:01He was asked if he's going to play any left tackle. He said, nope, we're not doing that.

17:05Um, but he wasn't asked about right guard, a position where on one who has played a lot over

17:09his career, played a lot of tackle, but some guard as well. Um, so I guess, you know, that's,

17:13that's what we have to report is that we saw some Wallace at right tackle still.

17:17Uh, and then on one who kick inside, what do you make of it? Do you, are you still okay with,

17:22you know, keeping Wallace at right tackle? If on one who could play guard, is he getting overpaid

17:27with that money? If they're going to play on the guard, what do you make about the whole shakeup?

17:30And I guess what we saw, um, in general on the offensive line today. So where do I start? So

17:36last week we did see, it seemed like with chooks, a quarter for out, everybody kind of seemed to be

17:40flipping. So I was like right now, Kate Wallace is a right tackle, but everyone's at the spot where

17:45they're not usually at. I'm not making a big deal out of it right now. The difference in this

17:50practice, like you said, was that when who was at right guard, usually when we were seeing Kate

17:54Wallace, the right tackle, it was laid in Robinson beside him. Right. We'll see him kind of like,

17:58okay, they're trying to get the young guys, some reps, whatever. But I, I couldn't really get along

18:04with the idea of Mike and when he went right guard and Kate Wallace stick into a spot at right

18:08tackle. Cause then you have two guys at their natural spots. Now I've also been on the record

18:12is saying, I don't like Mike and when he would guard in the scheme, because in this Alex van

18:16Pelt with the wide zone and the pin pull, a lot of the concepts they use involve these offensive

18:21linemen pulling, which I don't really love for Mike and when, and I think he can do it maybe

18:26more on like counter runs where he's kind of sealing the edge rather than really getting out

18:29into space. I also don't love the idea of when, when you're having to consistently climb to the

18:33second level, I just don't think that's really where he's at his best, but that said Alex van

18:38Pelton and everybody who talks about Alex van Pelt talks about how well he uses his personnel

18:43and he maximizes them. So if Mike and when he was at that right guard spot, I would assume they will

18:48be more flexible, maybe go towards more of a downhill scheme, which wouldn't be that crazy.

18:52Because even though we do know that van Pelt's roots are in the wide zone scheme, and he always

18:56says, that's what the base of his offense, what he likes it to be. You seen Sean McVay Kyle

19:02Shanahan. Those are guys who everybody thinks all they run is outside zone. But if you look at the

19:06numbers, they're running gap schemes where like the Niners are running a ton of power and the Rams

19:11are running a ton of duo. They're doing it to the highest rates in the NFL. So it wouldn't be so

19:16crazy to see them go like, Hey, we have a bunch of maulers. Let's just go downhill and try to put

19:20this defensive line into linebackers laps. Right. And even though I understand, you know, we want

19:25Caden Wallace to get reps at right tackle, but dried mayo was actually asked about Caden Wallace

19:29playing a right tackle. He mentioned, you know, I think it was, if you're playing at guard,

19:33we want you to be able to play at center. If you're playing at left tackle, we want you to

19:36be able to play at right tackle. And again, we've seen that they're clearly cross training. These

19:40guys, the only person we haven't seen it right. Tackle is true. So Corpore, which maybe that's

19:46just because he is a veteran and they already have all the tape. It's like, no, we know he

19:50can play where I play. Right. Yeah. If he started at right tackle, let's see if he can start at left

19:54tackle at that point. And I think even more so than the tackle depth, I think it's because of

19:59the guard depth because without Cole strange, we've seen left guard has been city. So again,

20:04that's a spot that he was at naturally. He was a left guard for most of his time in college.

20:09And then at that right guard spot, it's mostly been Nick Levrette. Sometimes you see Michael

20:13Jordan, sometimes like Robinson gets some reps in there. But if you're saying, Hey, I think Caden

20:19Wallace is a better starter than Nick Levrette. It makes sense. Chuco Corpore is a guy who can

20:23pretty much pencil or, you know, aggressively pencil into that left tackle spot. It seems like

20:28they're pretty confident in his ability to play their city. So if he keeps learning and growing,

20:33I think he has good upside. David Andrews stalwart than that right side. I think that really is one

20:38of your best options. So again, with this whole offensive line thing, like even Gerard Mayo said

20:43right now, it's all mental because you can't really do a whole lot. I spoke to David Andrews

20:47after practice and he was talking about what a disservice it is, especially the young players.

20:51The fact that they don't have as much contact as they used to have. And it hurts so much,

20:55especially in the run game, right? Again, if you're looking at your top five, like Dante

21:00Skarniecki always preached, you want your best five players out on the offensive line. Gerard

21:04Mayo echoed that. It makes a lot of sense. If you take your third round pick, you don't want him

21:09necessarily having to sit on the bench all year. You'd like to get him some reps on the field.

21:12Sure. Might not be a left tackle, but he's still learning to play against NFL caliber competition.

21:17If that means next season, he trains extensively at left tackle and the whole off season.

21:22If it means you draft another left tackle, whatever it is, I like the idea of still getting

21:26your best guys and also having guys play their natural positions. Cause then you can really build

21:30chemistry without guys having to also kind of, you know, play with one hand tied behind their

21:35back other than shoots who's still learning new positions. So we'll see how it goes. But again,

21:40I like the idea of getting your best players out there. I'm pretty much with you. I think that,

21:45you know, when we sort of, we went back and forth on the whole, you know, where's

21:49a kid and Wallace playing left to right, what have you last week? And I was like,

21:53just put them in left tackle. That's what you draft them for his third round pick, whatever.

21:57The more I think of it, the more I see it, it's, it's almost too early to tell. And you kind of,

22:03you kind of said that last week where, all right, let's just take a step back,

22:07let them work this thing out because it is so early and let's not get, you know,

22:10so up in arms and pissed off at where these guys are playing. Because again, everybody has pretty

22:15much been cross training and cross training, moving, working inside, working outside, things

22:18like that. You have plenty of guys. I mean, I guess specifically, you know, Wallace on when you

22:26in city. So who have really played guard and tackle and sort of are able to, you know,

22:30go back and forth in that. So I'm not too worried about yet about that yet. Rather,

22:36I just think that they, you know, when it, when push comes to shove, when training camp gets here,

22:42they need to have a better idea and a better decision at what they're going to do. And like

22:45you said, have your best five guys out there. But, um, I mentioned before, like,

22:50are you overpaying on wanting to play right guard at that point?

22:55That was going to be my point. I don't really, I don't really care. First of all, because if he's

23:00really freaking good at it, then I don't care how much you're paying him because you know,

23:03players make money. And if you're good, you're going to make money. But secondly, you're right.

23:06Guard's got paid this off season. So I'm fine with wherever he plays. We kind of know that

23:11he's been better at, at guard than tackle in general. So, um, keep them inside. If you think

23:16laden or laden, I'm sorry. Uh, Caden laden and Caden. Yeah. Caden can be your right tackle.

23:23Okay. So you drafted your right tackle in the third round. You have your right guard for the

23:26future. Then you have pretty much everything. And you still might have to figure out left,

23:30you know, the, the left tackle position at some point, depending on, um,

23:34the core four is only on a one-year deal. Yeah. So you figure that right. Yeah. You figure that

23:40out down the line, but, um, I knew like I've said in the past, I'm sorry to cut you off.

23:46I said in the past, I think he's an all pro pro bowl caliber guard. I think he's a good tackle

23:51and a good tackle. That's nothing to, you know, that's nothing to sneeze at. That still is a

23:55significant spot on your offensive line, whether it's left or right. But still, I mean, if you can

24:00keep Caden Wallace at his spot and he gets to transition to ways more comfortable and you get

24:04a guy who can be one of the best players at their position, like I'm not sure if anyone who's ever

24:08going to be a top 10, top 15 tackle. I just don't know because physically it's not what suits his

24:13skillset, but the fact that he can play it well, you know, still you'd like to have competent

24:18tackle play, but man, I, if they adjust to his skillset, I like the idea of playing him a guard.

24:23Again, as long as you're not asking this dude to play in space a ton. Cause I think that's where,

24:28you know, you kind of bring them back down a peg where if you maximize his skill,

24:32he can be one of the best guys in this position. If you ask him to do stuff, he's not good at,

24:36then you're just not going to get the same return on investment, right?

24:39Um, yeah, I'm with you there. So we've talked about, uh, the first round pick. We've talked

24:43about the third round pick. We haven't yet talked on the second round pick and that is Jalen Polk,

24:48who, um, I am quickly becoming obsessed with Jalen Polk's on the field presence. I, and again,

24:55he's, he's in and out of the, the sort of first team he's back with the second team. Sometimes

24:59he's, you know, he's working kind of working everywhere, but I mean, that dude just plays

25:03so confidently, Taylor. Like, I think that, you know, again, it's, it's super early and

25:08the caveats and blah, blah, blah. We always say it grain of salt, what have you, but like,

25:12he already looks like so much better than I had expected him to look. I mean,

25:16the 37th overall pick at the time, it felt like, I don't even want to call it a reach boots. You

25:21know, nobody really expected him to go there. They thought maybe later on in the second round,

25:24but he's looking like everything you'd want out of the 37th overall pick. He has like

25:29the strong, confident hands. He goes up in high points, the ball, he runs crisp routes.

25:33Um, you know, he's a smart player and he shows it on the field. And I think too,

25:38like a guy like type one Thornton today, who overall has had a pretty good, you know, spring

25:43wasn't great. He had a miscommunication, um, with the first scene offense, which go over set.

25:48Uh, he also had a pretty big drop across the middle where, you know, his head, his hands had

25:52looked pretty strong so far, but those, those drops have sort of been kind of his, uh, his

25:56downfall over the last couple of years. So look, he's going, Thornton's going to be on the roster

26:01bubble. If Jalen Polk can come in and really, um, contribute, I think that's, you know, a slam

26:06dunk move where you, I guess you get rid of Thornton and you put Jalen Polk and give him a

26:09little bit more of a, um, you know, some time to shine because he really does look like a guy who

26:14can come in and contribute pretty much right away to this team. I just, again, I, I I'm going to

26:18harp on it again, the strong, confident hands, like every time the ball touches his hands,

26:23it's not bobbled. It's not, you know, a sort of quick chest grab. It, it hits his mitts and it's

26:27gone. And it's in, it's like, I feel like we haven't had that in some time. Every time a ball

26:32goes to a receiver around here, sometimes it's like, oh crap, is he going to catch it? Jalen

26:35Polk doesn't bring that. So again, obsessed with him so far. Um, I can't wait to see where we get

26:40with him, um, into the summer. And then of course, into the season, it's also nice seeing him make

26:44plays. Cause we haven't seen Javon Baker in a couple of days, the last couple of practices

26:48we've seen, we're like, we're seeing him go through drills, but he's not having the ball

26:52thrown to him. He had a sleeve on one of his legs, so we don't have any confirmation. And I

26:56really don't like getting into the speculation when it comes to injuries. I just don't think

26:58it's super helpful. Uh, but the point is we haven't really seen him on the field a lot.

27:02And I've been saying, if this offense is going to be better than we expect,

27:05one of these young guys has to contribute and bring some juice. Cause I think pop is really

27:10going to be like the guy in this offense. I think he gives you that three level ability,

27:14but outside of that, I just think the veterans are solid, but not really game changers,

27:18especially when you talk about Kendrick Bourne, probably maybe starting the season off slow.

27:22Cause he doesn't look like he's really at the place he probably wants to be,

27:26but Jalen Polk, like you got Drake May, who has arm arrogance and Jalen Polk has hand arrogance.

27:30Yes. I think he caught a touchdown. Uh, I know Andrew Callahan spotted it. I didn't see it.

27:34Unfortunately, apparently he had a touchdown against Christian Gonzalez, which is pretty

27:37awesome. And like you say, the high pointing the ball, it happens all the time. And you can see

27:42that it's something he works at. It looks so effortless. You do see him start mixing in with

27:47the top team. And also we haven't even gotten to see his blocking. Like that's going to be a lot

27:51of the times where you were going to start reporting on like, I heard Jalen Polk block

27:56like a linebacker. And that's the thing that I always thought was going to get him on the field

28:00immediately, but how reliable he has been as a pass catch. Let me get to my notes real quick,

28:05just so I can make sure. Um, he had a touchdown, I think two touchdowns, um, in red zone work.

28:11Yes. Um, one of them was on Gonzalez. The other one, I can't remember who it was on,

28:15but it was from Zappy on the one that wasn't Gonzalez. Yeah.

28:18Yeah. So just knowing that he's like building rapport, not just with Drake, maybe with the

28:22other quarterbacks where regardless of who starts, there's a good chance. I'll still be on the field

28:26just because, you know, you can rely on him in a way, like you mentioned, you can't really with

28:30these other receivers. I think that really says a lot. And I just can't wait till we can get more

28:34physical and see his skillset really shine because the hands are why you come. Like he's still a

28:40work in progress as a route runner, even saw in some drills where he realized so much more on

28:45pace. And I thought it was interesting where there was, I think it was David Wallace, like

28:49sped through a drill. And by the time he got to the end of it, Polk was halfway through,

28:53but it's just because he runs his routes differently. And I feel like coming from

28:56that Washington program where they had such good coaching, it is a pro style offense where he also

29:01was learning things that were applicable to the league. Unlike some of these air raid systems,

29:05where you're coming into the NFL and learning something almost completely different in terms

29:08of your execution. I do think he has the training and the pedigree where he can catch on a lot

29:13faster. And it feels like, again, he's just kind of operating at a different speed and a different

29:17level of confidence and other guys around him. We'll see how that develops. But again, for these

29:23young guys, you want to see them start earning their keep and get this offense to a place where

29:27it's a little more respectable. It's cool to continue to make plays. Yeah, it is. I think

29:31it gives you a lot of confidence again with those first three picks here. Drake may obviously having

29:35a good day. Uh, Jalen Polk looking like, um, you know, the stud that he can be at the wider

29:39superposition. And then, you know, it looks like they might have a little bit more of a plan for

29:42Caden Wallace. Now, if you don't want them at right tackle, I understand that I don't really

29:45either. I would have rather used one of those top three picks on a left tackle, but look,

29:50you, you mentioned it perfectly with Alex Van Pelt, how, you know, he uses his personnel pretty

29:55well. You saw that in Cleveland last year with the guys, they moved all around the office of line

29:58to want Jones, things like that and making it work. So, um, overall a, a good showing from

30:03those top three guys in Drake may Jalen Polk and Caden Wallace today, one other draft pick.

30:08I want to show some love to Jaheim bell. Yeah. He had a really cool touchdown where Drake may

30:13have an anticipatory throw again. Some of the times I'm seeing where Drake's thrown and I'm

30:17just like, boy, that ball better be on point or it's not going to be good. And he put it at the

30:23top shelf where Jaheim bell went up and caught it in the back of the end zone. I thought, I think

30:27he caught a couple of passes from Joe Milton as well. They weren't crazy. They were underneath

30:30rows during or two or one minute into half drills. Um, but also Jaheim bell, the fact that

30:35he's been able to make plays, especially on a day where Austin Cooper had, you know, a few reps,

30:39didn't look great. I'm not sure if they were just miscommunications or what, but there were some

30:43passes that weren't even close for him to be catchable. There were a couple other opportunities

30:46I thought he didn't capitalize on, which is kind of surprising because you expect him to be the

30:51reliable veteran receiver. Who's like an okay blocker. Um, and he gives you that kind of

30:55Hunter Henry light sword energy where Jaheim bell can do a little bit of everything. So

30:59I hope that, you know, again, these young guys can keep building their stock because

31:03if they can contribute, man, this is a very different looking offense than,

31:07you know, just Hunter Henry KJ Osborne and Judy Smith Schuster. That's where you're like, okay,

31:12we're like cooking with something where Drake can give these guys chances to make plays.

31:15And I think they can just capitalize maybe better than some of the veterans. So also Jaheim bell

31:20absolutely deserve a shout out. He's a, he's starting to make some plays as well. Yep. I'm

31:24with you. All right. Before we wrap this thing up, we're going to, uh, well, we're going to listen

31:27to our friends at game time, but then we'll finish it up with secondary talk as well as

31:30some reminder, Steven's and stuff. So quick word from game time and we'll be right back.

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33:01All right, let's talk about the secondary. Secondary is taking shape a little bit here,

33:05Taylor. And we spoke with Isaiah Bolin after practice. We saw guys like Marco Wilson,

33:11Alex Austin continue to play on the boundary. And we saw Jonathan Jones back in the slot.

33:17I'll kind of leave this up to you. Again, I talked about this last time that my eyes have

33:21been sort of firmly on Drake May. It is the fan in me that wants to watch the quarterback rather

33:26than the defense. It's the former quarterback in me that wants to watch the quarterback rather

33:29than the defense. So I did watch some of these guys play. Alex Austin continues to look solid.

33:35Christian Gonzalez is obviously Christian Gonzalez. We don't have to worry about him.

33:39Secondary is starting to take shape a little bit. Jarrod Mayo talked about it a little bit today as

33:42well. What did you make of what we're seeing in the back end of the defense?

33:47So it looks like Marco Wilson and Alex Austin are really in competition for that spot on the outside.

33:52It felt like Alex Austin was getting the majority of those reps, although there were also some

33:56periods where Marco Wilson seemed to be the first guy up. But again, they were rotating. And Alex

34:01Austin, I feel like as long as he makes plays, probably has a leg up. Neither one of them stood

34:05out for me today. I just didn't particularly notice them. But Alex Austin has been the one

34:09who usually does stand out. And then the slot. Now, Bolden has been getting the majority of the

34:14slot reps, which is kind of notable. One, because he's someone who in college played all over the

34:20secondary. So it's kind of cool that maybe they're experimenting with that kind of big slot type of

34:24presence, especially when you have someone like Sean Waite, who actually has experience there,

34:29has been on the team for so long. And you're seeing Isaiah Bolden kind of jump in,

34:32which is super interesting. Jarrod Mayo did note, however, that he that's mostly due to depth,

34:37or they said the slot guys haven't really been available. And who hasn't really been

34:41on the field? Jonathan Jones and Marcus Jones. So to me, that kind of says whether it's Marcus

34:45or Jonathan, those guys are really seen as the primary slot guys, which music to my ears,

34:50because I think I actually spoke to Andre Weingarten. He did have some good points as to

34:54why Jonathan Jones at this point in his career might be better on the outside, just because he

34:58doesn't have quite the lateral quickness he used to. Marcus Jones obviously is better in that spot.

35:02But there's so much that goes on mentally. You kind of wonder how much he can pick up and whether

35:07he can be consistent or healthy. But with those guys kind of, especially again, Marcus Jones's

35:11health situation, it is nice that Isaiah Bolden is at least getting reps. Mayo did say he sees

35:16him as more of as a perimeter corner, though. Also kind of nice, he could be a special teams

35:19demon. So we'll see how that, you know, works itself out once maybe we get better health wise

35:24on this team. But I mean, he doesn't look out of place, you know, he's not getting burned for

35:28plays or anything. If anything, he looks pretty competitive out there. So yeah, that corner group

35:32is gonzo, clearly in the lead outside. It feels like Alex Saucin and Marco Wilson with maybe Alex

35:37Saucin having a bit of an edge. Bolden was the slot presence, though. And then in terms of the

35:43safeties, Jabril Pepper and Kyle Duggar, obviously the starters. We've seen a lot of Jalen Hawkins,

35:48and I didn't expect that. He's been primarily a special teamer. I believe it was either a year

35:52or two years ago where he did get a decent amount of snaps as a free safety. Did have some turnovers,

35:58but they were more opportunistic than they were, you know, him just reading the play,

36:01but still being around the ball and having some part in turnovers. There is some significance in

36:06that. So it was interesting to see him get a lot of reps. Feels like he's maybe in that Adrian

36:10Phillips or Jalen Mills kind of mold. And then Marty Mapu, he was asked if he might be playing

36:15more linebacker, which like I just, I'm the question annoys me so much because I feel like

36:23he's a dime linebacker, like in passing situation. Sure. And I've been saying that since last year,

36:27everyone's like, oh, moving to linebacker. I'm like, what do you, unless you want him

36:30to put on 20 pounds, he should not play linebacker. And if he can play linebacker

36:34to some degree and safety, the Patriots value safeties more than linebackers.

36:38Like, I don't think they have any intention of taking away his versatility just to make

36:42him a linebacker. Like we talked about it. Maybe he's more of a Mack Wilson type. Sure.

36:46But it seemed like he was closer to the line of scrimmage today. And more of like a dried said

36:50that he could be more like a big slot. Like he wasn't college. That's really more. We saw him

36:55in like the three safety kind of looks. Didn't see him a ton on the backend. So we didn't get

37:00any answers necessarily, but we are getting a clearer picture for maybe what the secondary

37:04could look like at this point. Still a lot of shakeups again, no Jonathan Jones, no Marcus

37:08Jones. We'll see what happens. Can Jalen Hawkins continue to be consistent and play productively

37:14once pads come on and things are a little faster paced. We don't know, but guys that we definitely

37:20should have more of an eye on or again, Jalen Hawkins. And then Alex Austin and Mark Wilson

37:25outside holding in the slot. Who's looking pretty good. Yeah. The thing I'll add too,

37:30is just that, and Mayo said it was, you know, with Isaiah Bolden, right? Like you're going to

37:34see him shine or you're going to see what you have in him more. So I guess when the pads come on,

37:38because he has a big corner type, so obviously you can move and you can kind of see his you know,

37:45I guess the way he moves and plays and coverage, but he's a guy who's sort of like a, not,

37:50a thumper, but can be physical and it's this big presence. So that's where you're going to see him

37:54kind of shine more. I'm also interested to see, or I'm interested why we haven't seen

38:01Bolden get any reps with the returners on kickoff because he was the best kick returners in college

38:06football two seasons ago. Like historically. Exactly. Right. And so I'm curious why that's

38:11not happening. I wonder if it's, you know, something they maybe see they did a lot of

38:15kickoff work today and it's the same guys. Jalen Paul, KJ Osborne, Rager, Touglas, and Marcus Jones

38:21are back there. Still no Isaiah Bolden. I don't know. It's probably not him coming back from the

38:25injury because he's been cleared for six months according to him. So we'll see where that goes,

38:29but if he can add any value there on special teams, I think that's going to help his cause as well.

38:33Something that, go ahead. You know, and Mayo did say that he could be like a special teams demon,

38:38which makes sense. He's got a crazy athletic profile and he was taken, I think he was the

38:42seventh round pick and Amir Speed was taken before him. Do I have that? Yeah. So at the

38:47very least he should be like an elite special teams player. So we'll see how that develops,

38:52but you know, he'll probably, he'll have some role on this team regardless of where,

38:56what phase of the game and where he's necessarily. Definitely good. A good overall to see him out

39:00there and, you know, talking to us and everything after what happened and, and what he threw,

39:04he went through last season, last preseason against Green Bay. So let's wrap it up Taylor

39:08with one final thought. Well, I guess we can give our overall thoughts after, but one sort

39:13of bullet point here, and it's that Ramondre Stevenson spoke after practice our friend,

39:18Andy Hart over at WEI, pressing him a little bit on his contract situation asking, you know,

39:23what's going on there. If he's, if he's been upset about some other guys on the team, getting

39:29extensions with him, not asking about the running back market, whatever. And Stevenson told us that

39:33he is getting close to an extension with the team. So I've heard that this has sort of been

39:39an ongoing thing between the team and Stevenson. He is one of those core guys that they want to

39:44try and keep around. Talks have gone back and forth, but according to Stevenson said,

39:48they are getting close. So running back is obviously a tricky position. As we know,

39:52the shelf lives are a little shorter, you know, you can go back and forth and saying,

39:56should you pay a running back? Should you just draft and develop? Elliot Wolf obviously loves

40:01the draft and develop, but Stevenson is also has been a core member of this team. So overall,

40:07what do you make of him? You know, kind of letting that loose today that they might be

40:10close to an extension. Do you think it's worth it? Do you think they should do it?

40:13And thoughts on him overall, heading into the season where he does look a lot slimmer. I will

40:16add to, he looks like he's sort of worked on his figure, make me, excuse me, maybe try and get the

40:22speed up here and be a little bit more versatile back rather than just a bowling ball. So thoughts

40:28on Stevenson potentially getting close to an extension with the Patriots Taylor.

40:31Yeah. He did mention that they want to get outside the tackles more often this year. And

40:35remind her, he said he's the same weight, but he's been cutting a fat and adding muscle,

40:40which is awesome for him. We know in the off season, like this dude's a warrior. He's constantly

40:43working on ways to improve. The running back position is devalued. I understand why some

40:49people may scoff at the idea of giving a running back, a second contractor, paying them any

40:54significant amount of money. But at the same time, if you want to preach that we're going to

40:58reward guys, there are very few people that are more rewarding or more deserving than remind

41:03Grace Stevenson. Has he battled injury time? Yes. That's the nature of the running back position.

41:08I'm sorry. But at the same time, there have been stretches where he is one of, if not your only

41:13offensive weapon, like he has carried such a massive load for this team since 2022, obviously

41:18flash in 2021 as well. But then you'll see about the leadership he's brought, like being the elder

41:23guy in that room. I think he's right now the only holdover from when Ivan Fierce was on the team.

41:27And I think there's a lot of value in that as well, teaching guys how to be professionals and

41:31all that. And he's also done everything you've asked. He's a good pass catcher. He's probably

41:36still their best pass blocker. He does everything for you. So I'm all for it. After Christian

41:41Farmore was extended, I predicted that he would be the next priority candidate because again,

41:46one of the character, he's someone you want in the locker room who, you know,

41:50Gerard Mayo talked about David Andrews, how he's a leader and exhibits the Patriot way. Like

41:54Roderick Stevenson absolutely does that because he has taken a lot of responsibility over this

41:59offense and has never complained once. So I love the idea of giving him a reward.

42:04However much that may be. And let's also be honest, the Patriots haven't given out a single

42:08extension where, except for you can argue, maybe Duggar, where you look at it and you're like,

42:13that's a little bit rich. Like they got great deals on Barmore and great deals on Mike and

42:18who are two of their best overall players. So I feel like whatever it comes down to for

42:22Romandre Stevenson, I feel like it's going to be at least fairly reasonable. And I'm excited for

42:27him because I really do think he's deserving in one with running backs, not making any money in

42:32the way that they are being treated and how kind of messed up it is. It's really cool to see him

42:38valued by his team and them saying, yeah, we value, we want you to stick around.

42:41They got across the finish line. You know, that is still very important. But again,

42:46just very deserving. And I'm hoping they get it done. Yeah, I'm with you. We'll see what happens

42:51there. Obviously I think they should again, I don't know if they should prioritize it as far

42:55as it being next. But I guess, you know, when you look at other guys who were in contract years,

42:59whatever, like he is next up, he's the next guy. So I think they should make it happen because you

43:03kind of hit it off on the head where he's been the, you know, been the exemplary Patriot.

43:07He's taken on a lot of responsibilities. He's turned his game from just a runner to a pass

43:12catcher, to a blocker. Like he, you know, he's looks really solid and has been really one of the

43:16cornerstones of the offense. One of the better players for them over the last two years where

43:20the offense outside of him has struggled mightily. So would be rewarding to see number 38, get some,

43:27some extra cash here. He also did mention that he's been watching a lot of Nick Chubb. You know,

43:32he turns on Nick Chubb highlights over at over on YouTube to try and get an idea of what he's going

43:38to do in Alexander Peltz offense. So fun stuff there. We'll see what they can go. You were going

43:42to make one more comment on, I believe Miguel Benzon friend of the show at Pat's cap on Twitter

43:46mentioned that the Patriots had actually saved money this year. If they did now, they don't

43:50really need a ton of money, obviously. I don't know what they'd be doing with it, but I do think

43:54they save money on this year's deal. If they do extend reminders, Stevenson. So there's a little

43:59bit of, if you want more information, you can feel free to go back to the last episode we did with

44:03Pat's cap or just hit him up on Twitter. I'm sure, you know, he'd love to drop some knowledge,

44:08but yeah, I believe it would be in the Patriots best interest, at least in this year, if they

44:13found some way to lengthen that contract. Yep. I'm with you. All right. Any other final thoughts,

44:18wrap up Taylor, before we get out of here? A couple things. So one, we've been talking about

44:23discipline in whether the Patriots, you know, we've seen that false starts and all these penalties,

44:27players don't get punished the way they used to, or we see them take laps and all that.

44:31We did see Michael Jordan get kicked out of practice though, because it seemed like he

44:35got into a scuffle towards the end of the day with Tristan Hill. So that's the first time we've

44:38really seen someone get some kind of a punishment for an infraction. I thought that was pretty

44:43notable. Chad Ryland went two for four on field goal attempts to end practice while Joey Sly

44:49went four for four. That's when we're definitely going to need to keep an eye out on. It's just,

44:53we're rooting for Chad Ryland, obviously, but it's just really disappointing. We were talking about

44:57it. I don't think we've been to a practice where he's made all of his field goal attempts in those

45:02end of practice sessions. So, and then you guys can check out of Brett Coleman and EJ Snyder,

45:08the bootleg football podcast. They do a series where they do deep dives into every single NFL

45:13team. They started with the Patriots. I think it's up right now. They mentioned how Chad

45:17Ryland's kicking percentage would have been terrible for a college kicker. I'm not trying

45:21to dump on the guy, but you've got to see some improvement or they may end up going to get one

45:26of these like XFL or USFL kickers or whatever, because it's just not good enough. And one more

45:31thing, I will direct people to my Twitter page. I spoke with David Andrews at the end of practice

45:36about June being Men's Mental Health Awareness Month. And he had some great things to say about

45:41the importance of checking in on people, really having conversations rather than sometimes talking

45:47without a lot of substance to it at times. And also brought up his friend and former Patriot

45:51Corey Cunningham, who unfortunately passed away back in April. So I would highly encourage

45:57everybody to listen to what David Andrews had to say. He's been very vocal about his mental health

46:00journey. And it's just kind of cool to hear NFL players who everyone thinks of as these superheroes

46:06and these titans, obviously acknowledge the fact that mental health is still very important. And

46:12even for guys who were on the pedestal that we put them on, it's still something that's

46:16important to them and needs to be addressed. So check that out if you get the chance.

46:20Yeah, I'm totally with you. I put a little shout out to Men's Mental Health Awareness

46:24Month at the end of my Sunday column the other day, where it sounds like cliche, but you're

46:29never alone, right? You can reach out to anybody and talk to people. And I know it's all...

46:34Like you mentioned, these football players who everyone thinks is all tough guy, high and mighty,

46:38and hard head, and don't let your feelings out. It's so stupid. People go through shit.

46:44Shit gets very real sometimes. Don't be afraid to reach out to anybody. Reach out to me if you

46:47have to. I'm serious. I'll be a sounding board. I've went through my own mental health struggles

46:51in the past. So I won't go on my whole rant, but good on DA to kind of mention that. And I'm happy

46:59you asked him about it because he's been vocal about that stuff. So good stuff.

47:01And also, I know I've spoken to John Zanis about it, but we may try to do a show where we talk

47:06about mental health. If you're interested in that, if there's anything that you'd like us to talk

47:10about, feel free to shoot it over in the comments so we have an idea of how to put it together.

47:14Because obviously this is a football-centric channel and all that, but I mean, these are

47:19things that are very important and we're not robots. Like you said, Mike, I've gone through

47:23my own mental health journey. So if anybody wants to have that kind of discussion, give us some

47:27feedback. Let us know what kind of things you want to talk about. But we are definitely

47:30brainstorming some kind of way to address Men's Mental Health Awareness Month. So just let us know.

47:35Yeah, let's do it. All right. Well, that's it for us, myself and Taylor here. Patriots wrapping up

47:41day one of their mandatory mini-camp. We'll be back on Pat's Daily. I'm not 100% sure when.

47:47Taylor probably has a little bit better of an idea. Tomorrow, like I said, Patriots are off

47:50from practice, but they'll be back at it on Wednesday. We're brainstorming. What we're going

47:54to do is sort of an in-between show on Wednesday afternoon because we have Patriots practice on

48:00Wednesday, but then we also have Tom Brady night, Wednesday night. So it's going to be fun here.

48:04Obviously, keep it locked into all the CLNS channels because a bunch of our guys are out

48:08in Dallas already coming down the pipe for what is game three and four of the NBA Finals

48:15in Mark Cuban's house with the Mavericks. So again, keep it locked in here. Patriots press

48:20pass follow Taylor on Twitter at TKyles39. And you can follow me as well at Mike Kadlik. Until

48:26next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and we'll see you next time.

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