The Athletic's national NFL insider Jeff Howe returns to the show to compare notes on the Patriots' extended minicamp practice, including Drake Maye's growth, Matt Judon's return and lots more. Later, Jeff shares some intel on Rhamondre Stevenson saying he's "pretty close" to a contract extension and helps answer your mailbag questions. All that, and much more!
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🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00Okay, welcome from Dallas, recording here midday Tuesday.
00:00:16I'm here for the Celtics.
00:00:18There's a lot of breaking news, but we are day after Patriots minicamp, but that's what
00:00:21this podcast is about.
00:00:22So we're going to talk some football with Jeff Howe.
00:00:25He's going to love this.
00:00:26NFL National Insider for the athletic.
00:00:28I don't actually know if you love it.
00:00:30I know I've asked you that.
00:00:31It's always the running bit when I have you on, but in all seriousness, I really appreciate
00:00:34the time.
00:00:35You were at minicamp yesterday.
00:00:36We have a lot to get to, but as far as that bit and how much you love it or any Dallas
00:00:40thoughts you want to lead off with something different?
00:00:43I mean Porzingis' random leg tear that is apparently day to day kind of scares the hell
00:00:51out of me.
00:00:52I don't love that.
00:00:54I love the title, the way that he introduced me a whole lot more than I love the tendon
00:01:00hanging off of Porzingis' leg.
00:01:03Yeah, I learned some new things about human physiology coming here down to Dallas.
00:01:09I learned that downtown is like the least downtown feel of any big city that I've ever
00:01:12been in.
00:01:13And now, like I said, we're going to talk Patriots because look, when I started on the
00:01:21I'll be honest to you, Porzingis' stuff aside, I wanted to have recaps that look like yours.
00:01:27And you were back here today.
00:01:28So I joked with you right off the top.
00:01:30I was like, okay, are you going for 2000 because I'm going for 3000 words in every little detail
00:01:33that we saw because that's the job is take people where they cannot go, tell them things
00:01:37that they cannot know.
00:01:39So you and I just admitted before we got on here, we have not read each other's recap.
00:01:43So this will be good, authentic, just takes of not knowing what the other person's going
00:01:47to say.
00:01:48The takeaway though, obviously it has to start with Drake Mays, everything does this time
00:01:52of year.
00:01:53And so the Patriots practice on Monday.
00:01:55That's what we're talking about.
00:01:56They were off today doing community stuff.
00:01:57They'll be back at practice on Wednesday.
00:01:58Are you going to practice tomorrow, Wednesday?
00:01:59Yep.
00:02:00Yeah, I'll be there in the morning and then for the Brady event at night.
00:02:03Okay, great.
00:02:04So you will have, I assume another 5000 words coming out of practice, but we're just going
00:02:09to have to deal with today because I was there.
00:02:12We will have more thoughts for folks who listen to this podcast regularly next week to recap
00:02:16Wednesday.
00:02:17So I wanted to bring in Jeff for that reason.
00:02:19And because I got to be honest, when I was thinking about who I wanted to have on this
00:02:24podcast, it hit me way too late and it hit me at a time that you're not going to like
00:02:29this part, but I'm sitting on the plane early this morning, coming to Dallas, but who was
00:02:33at practice yesterday?
00:02:34We've had a lot of people, Doug, Jordy was just on.
00:02:38And then the guy next to me on this plane, two seat a row, nowhere to go.
00:02:44I'm on the inside, starts tearing ass in his sleep, and it reminds me of the story
00:02:51you told when you came on last summer.
00:02:53And I'm asking you stories about your training camp tour.
00:02:56And the first thing is not like, oh, sitting and talking with Sean McVay, which I think
00:03:00you hit on, or being in Tennessee and Nashville.
00:03:03It was, I took this plane ride.
00:03:04I felt like I was a Dutch oven the entire time.
00:03:08And that's my story.
00:03:10And I remember just having this sense of like, oh, that sucks, but also, oh, that was the
00:03:14decision, the story you told.
00:03:15Anyway, that happened to me.
00:03:16I said, let me text Jeff.
00:03:17He was there.
00:03:18He'll have as many notes as anybody.
00:03:19So welcome.
00:03:20Welcome in again, I guess.
00:03:21I am happy that somebody else's farts could make you think of our common life experiences.
00:03:27Yeah.
00:03:28The dude was knocked out in a way that I am envious of, because I don't sleep that well
00:03:33on planes.
00:03:34It's always like the head bobbing, slamming against the side of the window.
00:03:38He was just out, mouth open.
00:03:40Other things were open.
00:03:42Just was just a lot of this for the YouTube folks, cover the nose with the shirt.
00:03:46And anyway, we're moving on.
00:03:48As promised, football.
00:03:49Okay.
00:03:50May.
00:03:51Here were the stats that I had, because this is, you know, what we tweet, what we report,
00:03:55the things that we can show and tell you, even though they don't capture everything,
00:03:57they're not perfect.
00:03:58What is?
00:03:59In all team periods, 11 on 11s and seven on sevens, completed 75% of his passes.
00:04:04He had two two-minute drills.
00:04:06Neither of them scored.
00:04:07But here's the thing.
00:04:08Jacoby Brissette was the only one who did score in these two-minute drills.
00:04:12Had one out of seven.
00:04:13It led to a field goal, and that was it.
00:04:15Dominant defensive day.
00:04:16Within 11 on 11s, Drake May was statistically better than Jacoby Brissette.
00:04:2112 of 17, granted with two sacks, one of which ended his initial two-minute drill.
00:04:26So that's the backdrop.
00:04:28That's the summary.
00:04:29Diving into something deeper than the cliff notes, A, do you think he had a good or great
00:04:34day?
00:04:35Because there were differing opinions on the beat.
00:04:38And whichever answer you choose, why was it not good, just good, or why was it not great?
00:04:45I would use encouraging more than either of those two words.
00:04:48But if I had to choose one, I would lean more toward good than great.
00:04:51I certainly would not characterize it as great.
00:04:54But there's a lot to that.
00:04:56And I thought he did a lot of things well.
00:04:59And you know, and for anybody who's listening who has not heard, I'm a big Drake May guy.
00:05:05I've been preaching his name since October and November.
00:05:09And I think this guy's potential is absolutely through the roof.
00:05:11So I want to make sure I preface it with that.
00:05:13But look, he's been practicing for less than a month.
00:05:17And with the veterans, even really less time than that, and you spread out those practices.
00:05:22He looks like a rookie, and he should look like a rookie.
00:05:24And I haven't been to Bears camp or Commanders camp, but I would be very surprised if either
00:05:29one of those guys is processing any quicker right now than Drake May is.
00:05:34There are going to be bumps, and they're expected, and that's going to happen.
00:05:38There were, you know, I remember when I started, I'm kind of thinking back to some prior years
00:05:45practice reports, when everybody wanted to say, oh, check down Charlie about Mac Jones
00:05:50or whatever.
00:05:51I'm not comparing the two, but I'm getting into the process.
00:05:54Why was I jotting down the reason for these checkdowns?
00:05:57And I thought there were a lot of productive checkdowns in Mac Jones' practice career.
00:06:03But again, not comparing the two guys, I'm just kind of going through my own process
00:06:07of note taking.
00:06:08I had five checkdowns for Drake May on Monday, and I thought they were all the result of
00:06:13just being sped up too fast and making a decision that he was like, you know what, I'm not seeing
00:06:18the field completely yet.
00:06:20I'm not progressing as quickly as I would like to.
00:06:22I'm going to the open guy.
00:06:24So those weren't necessarily productive checkdowns.
00:06:26There were other times when he held the ball a little too long, because again, he was taking
00:06:30a little too long to process.
00:06:33What I did like was when he was decisive, and it was probably when that first read was
00:06:39there.
00:06:40But when he was decisive, my goodness, he could rip the ball.
00:06:43I know it's not the ideal drill, but that seven-on-seven deep red zone drill when he
00:06:47went four-on-four was outstanding.
00:06:50And eventually those are going to bleed into the 11-on-11 drills.
00:06:55The other part too is, to be fair, he was playing behind what I believe, you can say
00:07:00this better than I can, was largely a backup offensive line.
00:07:03So I thought there was a lot more pressure in his face than Jacoby had gotten.
00:07:07But look, I liked a lot of what he did.
00:07:10I know we're going to get into more of that eventually.
00:07:13But what held him back was the processing speed.
00:07:16But I would expect slow processing speed for any quarterback at this point in the year.
00:07:22You mentioned that offensive line, and that is key context, which if we're zooming out
00:07:27going back to Drake May.
00:07:28He again, for the folks who don't know, took second quarterback reps behind Jacoby Brissette
00:07:31because this became a thing in May, going, oh my God, why is he number three?
00:07:35I talked about this before.
00:07:36I don't care about the order.
00:07:37I care about the total number of reps.
00:07:39Those also went as follows, Jacoby Brissette, 30, Drake May, 29, Billy Zappi, I think was
00:07:4414, and Joe Melton had six because Billy Zappi's first two-minute drill was one play long and
00:07:49it went in the wrong direction because he threw a pick six to Kyle Duggar.
00:07:56The offensive line, though, being the second quarterback, you're working with the second
00:07:59offensive line.
00:08:00For a team that has a bad offensive line, talent-wise, you're going to work with players
00:08:05like the following.
00:08:06Calvin Anderson was his left tackle, Michael Jordan was his left guard, Nick Leverett slash
00:08:11Antonio Maffi.
00:08:12Maffi, who did not play center at all, I don't know about Leverett, were sending him snaps,
00:08:17Layden Robinson, fourth-round rookie at right guard, and then Cade Wallace, who's back at
00:08:20right tackle, and we'll get into more offensive line stuff anyway.
00:08:24But I'm glad you brought up the checkdowns because the way I captured it in my practice
00:08:29report was he looked like, to me, a seasoned backup, right?
00:08:34He did the simple things well.
00:08:35He didn't turn the ball over.
00:08:37He found those checkdowns.
00:08:38He had outlets versus pressure, and I scramble up the middle in the first or second period.
00:08:42I don't want to see a ton of scrambles, but you know what I don't want to see right now?
00:08:45I don't need any of the no-look throws.
00:08:48I don't need the cross-field bombs.
00:08:50I don't need the highlights.
00:08:51I know that's in there.
00:08:53What I don't know is a little bit of what he showed.
00:08:56Boring, move the ball, and keep it football with some of those progressions.
00:09:01Checkdowns are fine.
00:09:02I didn't know what that would look like until he got in here.
00:09:04If I wanted to see the highlights, I would just watch the UNT tape.
00:09:07So I'm with you.
00:09:08I think this was encouraging.
00:09:10It was not a great day full of highlights, but it was a good day just on those boring
00:09:14areas that he hits.
00:09:15I want to see boring until we really get into game action.
00:09:18I know he's got his answers against pressure because we talk about, oh, can you put him
00:09:22in too early?
00:09:23Yes, you can.
00:09:24But if he knows where to go with the ball when he's got pressure in his face that's
00:09:28either going to physically harm him or ruin his confidence, then he can get around that.
00:09:31If he doesn't, that's when you're in danger.
00:09:34Yeah.
00:09:35I mean, I can think of, I believe it was to Juju, immediate pressure off the right tackle,
00:09:41and he was able to basically get the ball out short of contact.
00:09:46And it was just a quick slant to Juju, but it being able to make that quick read was
00:09:50important.
00:09:51But yeah, there was a ton of pressure in his face.
00:09:54Off the top of my head, I want to say four of the five checkdowns were extremely premature
00:09:59or just not the best play.
00:10:03Not a negative play.
00:10:04So yes, there is something to be said for that, but one of them was probably too much
00:10:08pressure in his face.
00:10:09So he got rid of it.
00:10:10That would be more along the lines of a good play or a good checkdown, a productive checkdown.
00:10:15So yeah, but you can see him kind of mentally working through things, but I expected that.
00:10:22If he came out and was processing things and all of a sudden it was like, oh my goodness,
00:10:26you could see him go to his third read and then he delivered that with confidence, then
00:10:30we'd be sitting here and talking irresponsibly, putting him in Canton.
00:10:36But you've got to take all this stuff with a grain of salt because it's month one for
00:10:42him.
00:10:43Are you ready to win this offseason?
00:10:45Like a long Drake May touchdown pass down the sideline, seven on sevens, maybe OTAs,
00:10:49could be minicamp.
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00:11:57Now, let's go through the two minute drills because I think that's, you know, it's a two
00:12:01minute drill in mini camp, right?
00:12:03It's one day.
00:12:04It's one practice.
00:12:05Not bad at all.
00:12:06It's stuff that I've been saying over and over and over and over again this spring.
00:12:08But I think those are the details that the people want and are a little bit more illuminating
00:12:11because this is not only just 11 on 11, it's 11 on 11 against a defense that can pull out
00:12:16any trick out of its bag.
00:12:18And we know this Patriots defense has got a just absolutely massive playbook and specifically
00:12:22for third down.
00:12:23So how is he processing?
00:12:24How's he reacting to pressure, identifying the mic, all these different things.
00:12:27And Jacoby Perset, as I mentioned, led one to a field goal.
00:12:29His other two minute drill was five plays, ended in a sack.
00:12:32No good.
00:12:33Drake Mays started with a check down.
00:12:37And I had this as possibly a sack.
00:12:39Then he hits Juju, I think, on that slant that you were talking about.
00:12:43Incompletion throw away downfield.
00:12:44Jalen Rager on a shallow cross around midfield.
00:12:47Then a little bit of trouble.
00:12:48It was Jalen Rager incomplete down the sideline on a go route.
00:12:52He has another drag route, this time to little Michael Pettway.
00:12:55Clock is running.
00:12:56He hits Antonio Gibson to get a couple more yards again, just across midfield, and then
00:13:01takes a sack.
00:13:02And what was, you know, an incompletion to Keishon Booty, where I don't think he felt
00:13:05the pressure.
00:13:06After that, this was a shorter draft.
00:13:09Check down to Michael Hastie.
00:13:11He had an incompletion to Juju versus Isaiah Bolden, who got a pass breakup.
00:13:15There was a deep crosser he found Jalen Polk on, which I got to be honest, I don't remember
00:13:19a ton about that play.
00:13:20I know it was a really nice throw, his best, I think, of the two minute drill.
00:13:23And then he took a sack, and then he found Juju down the seam.
00:13:26The problem with that was, there were two seconds left on the clock.
00:13:29You can't throw it inbounds, and Kyle Duggar would have taken Juju's head off and walked
00:13:32it off the field, like the pick six that he had, if he had been allowed to tackle him
00:13:36inbounds, which is why they blew the whistle.
00:13:38The drive was dead.
00:13:39From those two minute drills, what stood out, aside from the check down steal?
00:13:44Yeah, that overrode, I believe, was by the right sideline, and was one of his better
00:13:50throws of the day.
00:13:51Yeah, I was actually, we should have conferred on this one, because I was curious why that
00:13:56one got blown dead.
00:13:57I couldn't tell if it was a sack or not, but like you said, either way, that long seam
00:14:01route, was it to Juju, he absolutely would have gotten lit up by the safety.
00:14:06So that's one of those where, I'm sure Juju and Drake May are going to have a conversation
00:14:11after the film and say, please don't do that on Sunday to me.
00:14:15Yeah, I mean, those are high pressure, prideful periods where the offense and the defense
00:14:23are competing like crazy.
00:14:25So there's a lot of pressure.
00:14:27Those are, I would venture to guess, the most valuable periods of practice for the
00:14:32coaches, and it gives the guys in the locker room a lot of ammo to go at each other after
00:14:38practice to say who won those periods.
00:14:40The defense very clearly did.
00:14:42I think it was sort of an encapsulation of where the offense is as a whole.
00:14:45They're behind the defense, and part of that is there should be some nervousness there,
00:14:53because this is a passing camp.
00:14:55They are set up to be conducive to offensive success.
00:14:58The other part where you just say, well, it's just so early in the process with the new
00:15:02coaching staff and a completely different quarterback room, so you're going to expect
00:15:06some of these growing pains against an experienced defense with a defensive-minded head coach
00:15:11who has a lot of experience running that exact same group.
00:15:14So it takes some of the good with the bad, and you just sort of understand it.
00:15:18One thing I did right today in my quarterback breakdown was that the big thing for me,
00:15:26I don't want to take too much time on this topic for you, because it's looking a lot
00:15:30further ahead, but I would expect Jacoby Brissett to be the starter going into training camp.
00:15:35I don't care about that.
00:15:37What I really want to see is what week three looks like.
00:15:40When the pads are on and everything's a lot more difficult, and Drake May has a chance
00:15:44to put all these days together and develop some consistency, that's when you really want
00:15:49to see him catch or surpass Jacoby Brissett.
00:15:53You're talking like August 15th, right around there, you're going to start to get some joint
00:15:57practices thrown in the mix.
00:15:59Not even about the preseason games as much, those are a valuable step, no question, but
00:16:04I just want to see how they look against each—not that I'm going to be there necessarily at
00:16:08this point, but what they look like if you're the fans, the writers, whatever, when you're
00:16:13there every day and you can really measure those guys and develop the consistency, that's
00:16:18when it's really most important to me.
00:16:20It's not about week one of training camp or anything like that, or even honestly, we're
00:16:24sitting here going through every single one of his throws and day one of minicamp, there's
00:16:31some necessary context there too.
00:16:33I always used to point out during OTAs, there'd be 10 on the schedule, we would see three.
00:16:39A guy could be outstanding in 70%—or terrible in 77 of those 10 that are closed to the media,
00:16:47and the reverse in the three that are open to the media, and we're all of a sudden making
00:16:50a little too much of that.
00:16:51That's why I always like minicamp, because you use—
00:16:54We wouldn't make too much of anything we hear in the media, would we, Jeff?
00:16:58We would never do that.
00:17:01But minicamp is usually a chance to see a couple practices in a row, a little bit of
00:17:06a non-traditional breakup in the middle of this one, but the consistency for stuff like
00:17:11this is important.
00:17:12So you just want to see some of what we—take what we saw Monday, and try to figure out
00:17:20if the coaches saw the same thing, and how they react to divvying up the practice reps
00:17:24on Wednesday, and whether some trends develop, because the trends in these settings are more
00:17:31important than anything.
00:17:32You're absolutely right, and that leads me to the last question about Drake May, which
00:17:36we will not answer right away, but it continues what you're just hitting on here.
00:17:41And the question is, what can we say with certainty right now, June 11th, about Drake
00:17:45May?
00:17:46Spoiler alert, I'm going to say not much, right?
00:17:50Because if anyone is certain right now about Drake May, when he's going to start, how he's
00:17:56going to look, how good he'll be in the National Football League—and again, you know I'm
00:18:01serious, because I said it and spelled it out, not just NFL—I don't want to hear from
00:18:05them right now.
00:18:07No one knows.
00:18:08The Patriots don't know.
00:18:09Gerrard May was asked a question yesterday about the kickoff role, and all these different
00:18:11teams that are planning, oh, you're going to have a safety kickoff, because he needs
00:18:14to be a good tackler, and you really don't want Chad Riley in there as your last line
00:18:17of defense.
00:18:18And he said flatly, I don't know.
00:18:20In the previous regime, that would be a deflection.
00:18:22Of course, Bill had spent all that time thinking about it.
00:18:25I'm open to the possibility Gerrard was just deflecting, but I think he's being authentic.
00:18:28And I know he's being authentic.
00:18:30When he's asked about Drake May, he says, we'll have to find out, because the trends
00:18:33you talked about, the consistency, doesn't happen in May.
00:18:37It doesn't happen in June.
00:18:38It's late July.
00:18:39It's all of August.
00:18:40It's early September.
00:18:41Practice after practice after practice in pads and the preseason.
00:18:45They don't know how he's going to react.
00:18:46So it is fun to be like, week seven, he's going to make his debut in London.
00:18:50That's what's going to happen, and start to build these scenarios.
00:18:52We don't know.
00:18:53Drake May doesn't know.
00:18:54Gerrard Mayo doesn't know.
00:18:55So I don't want to spend time on that, and it's a great point that you make of like,
00:18:59the truth is in the trends.
00:19:00That goes for all of training camp, but especially the players you know the least about, which
00:19:04is going to be Drake May.
00:19:06It's going to be the rookies.
00:19:07It just makes for boring radio, TV, and podcasts to be like, damn it, I don't know.
00:19:11Because, well, then why would anyone listen?
00:19:13But that's why we have you on, and we start with stories about farting.
00:19:18I want to, I'll pick three plays that stood out, and try to go off of that.
00:19:25One was the scramble that he had, I think, in the second team period.
00:19:29Maybe it was the first team, whatever it was, very early.
00:19:32And like you said, you don't want to see scrambling from the quarterback in this setting, but
00:19:37I thought that was interesting because he quickly, or immediately, identified man coverage,
00:19:41and the middle of the field just parted like the Red Sea.
00:19:45And he was, it's tough from our angle, I would say 15, 20 yards downfield, and all of a sudden
00:19:51he's one-on-one with a safety.
00:19:53And you would just love to see how that would have played out in a live situation, because
00:19:57that could have been like a 60-yard touchdown run, maybe it's a 20-yard game.
00:20:00Either way, it's a good play, because you've got a big physical quarterback who we know
00:20:05can run the ball, and saw something that he liked, and he took advantage of it.
00:20:08So that was a good play.
00:20:10He had a throw in seven-on-sevens in that deep red zone drill over a defender, it was
00:20:17probably a linebacker, in a shallow zone, and he hit, is it Bell, the tight end of a
00:20:23touchdown?
00:20:25Yeah, I mean, arcing over a leaping defender into the back part of the end zone, and that
00:20:31was just a really good example of identifying where he was going and making an outstanding
00:20:37throw.
00:20:38And I'm not as regular of an attendee in Foxborough as I used to be, but I haven't seen a throw
00:20:43like that at Gillette Stadium in quite a while.
00:20:46So...
00:20:47Now, let's stay there, because I think, just really quickly, those two plays that you mentioned,
00:20:50and again, we don't know anything yet, we're going to need to see this over and over again
00:20:55to have trends, not just a single example.
00:20:57But the first one was obviously about his reaction athleticism, second reaction, right?
00:21:01You drop back, you see the field, what are you going to do next?
00:21:04What's your second reaction?
00:21:06Sometimes it's extending plays, other times it's scrambling.
00:21:08And again, I don't want to see young quarterbacks scramble a whole lot in minicamp, but he recognized
00:21:13exactly what was happening.
00:21:14You saw the takeoff speed in a way that goes, oh, they haven't, they haven't had anyone
00:21:19who can do that, playing quarterback.
00:21:21I mean, I would say, if you go back to Cam Newton, he's a little bit more dynamic than
00:21:26the past-his-prime Cam Newton that the Patriots got.
00:21:28So that's new to this.
00:21:30Second part is the arm talent that you just hit on.
00:21:34We're going to notice these things, I think people will once they get to training camp
00:21:36in the preseason, that's different from Mac Jones, even to a degree, late-stage Tom Brady,
00:21:41that Drake May has.
00:21:43And that's why it's a new ballgame, as much as the new offensive coordinator, how they're
00:21:47going to play, and how he's going to play from the quarterback position will feel very,
00:21:50very different.
00:21:51Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:52And, you know, another play-actually two more, one I'll do quickly.
00:21:58I was later in the practice, they were coming in our direction, so it was probably one of
00:22:02those two-minute drills, but like quick pressure in the pocket, he stepped up and delivered
00:22:06a throw with confidence.
00:22:08It was complete, I can't remember to who, I believe it was toward the left side of the
00:22:11field, but there was so much emphasis on his footwork.
00:22:14He had really good footwork, pocket presence, and an understanding of where his open guy
00:22:18was going to be.
00:22:19And it was, again, you know, like I'm sitting here criticizing him for his slow processing
00:22:22speed, but it wasn't on every single play.
00:22:25So there were times when he absolutely was able to get away from it, or get away with
00:22:29it.
00:22:30And then there was another play, it was an incompletion, but it stood out to me, it was
00:22:33during seven-on-sevens, and he had an over-under concept, and the under going to his left,
00:22:41so our right, was wide open immediately.
00:22:46I remember thinking to myself, okay, that's an easy completion, catch and run, going to
00:22:50be a good play.
00:22:52And it was almost like, as Drake May looked at it, he saw there was, I don't remember
00:22:57if it was a linebacker or a safety playing up, was kind of creeping toward where that
00:23:02receiver was going to get open, and that was probably going to be, if not a batted pass,
00:23:07an interception, and May completely broke off it, and he went to the over-row to the
00:23:11right side of the field, and it was incomplete.
00:23:14I don't remember if it was good coverage, or a bad throw, or whatever it was, I think
00:23:17it was more good coverage.
00:23:18It was a drop.
00:23:19Oh, it was a drop, okay.
00:23:22Just to jump in this, because it was a deep cross from Michael Pettway, the tight end,
00:23:25who had a linebacker right underneath him, and a safety converging, so this is a kind
00:23:29of second, third level throws, I mean it was middle-ish of the field, going right hash,
00:23:34and he layered it in, that you're going, again, talking about different ways that the Patriots
00:23:38are going to experience a quarterback, and quarterback play this entire season, that
00:23:43throw was it.
00:23:44That was my favorite throw.
00:23:45It was an incompletion, like you said, drop by the Michael Pettway, who also had a huge
00:23:48touchdown grab, but it was, I missed the processing part, so I'm glad you brought that up, missing
00:23:53the underneath route, because the deep over would just pinpoint.
00:23:56Yeah, and I liked that, because it just, it shows that, again, backing up, I don't want
00:24:02to keep repeating myself, but like, the slow processing speed, which is expected, but he
00:24:06processed that in the exact time that you would want him to, and if it was a mistake
00:24:11that he, I mean, he's going to make plenty of mistakes like that in training camp, but
00:24:15you didn't, he avoided that one, and I thought, you know, tip of the hat to him for getting
00:24:22out of what was going to be very realistically a bad play, and turning it into what was,
00:24:29you know, an incompletion because of a drop, but I thought he deserved a lot of credit
00:24:34for checking out of that.
00:24:36Yeah, and for the folks who, you know, might be listening to me saying, oh, I missed this,
00:24:40and you didn't realize that, there are 22 people on the field, early instances, we're
00:24:46looking at who's the offensive line combination, who is that guard, oh, they just swapped him
00:24:49out, Mike Irwin, who's playing right tackle for some of Jacoby Brissette's drives, then
00:24:53he's at right guard, why are they doing that, who's in his place, who's on the sideline,
00:24:56is someone injured, there's a lot going on in training camp, and not to excuse us, but
00:25:01a lot of times, your favorite reporters, whether they're on this podcast or not, are
00:25:05asking other ones, hey, what did you have on this, just to double check, so it's not
00:25:09that we're not paying attention, it's just like any football game, it's just a practice,
00:25:13there's a lot to take in.
00:25:15Let's end on quickly the question that I mentioned and teased earlier, what can we definitively
00:25:19say about Drake May, understand this is not going to be much, but something you know now,
00:25:22this is my favorite question to players and coaches this time of year, what do you know
00:25:25now, and this goes to you, that we didn't know at the start of OTAs, mid-April, or obviously
00:25:31in May's case, early May?
00:25:35That's a hard one for me to answer, just because I'm not there every day, because what I liked
00:25:45was that he completed, let's see, I think you said 75%, I think I had 76%, I would venture
00:25:52to guess the discrepancy there is because maybe you or I counted plays that got blown
00:25:56dead or called a sacks and one of us kept them or whatever, going back basically 10
00:26:04years, so a large sample size, Tom Brady was usually between 70% and 75% in this type of
00:26:11setting, so I've always set the bar, you want to be in that window, that doesn't mean you're
00:26:16going to complete 70% to 75% in the regular season, but given everything that we've said
00:26:22and the constructive criticism about eventually that processing speed is going to come, you
00:26:27don't give them all the points for the checkdowns that boost those numbers, but for a guy who
00:26:32is still learning, and again, it's one practice, I'm talking 70% to 75% over the course of
00:26:37an entire stretch of practices.
00:26:39A whole training camp, that's where those numbers come from.
00:26:43Training camp is usually closer to 70%, if you can get between 68% and 72%, that's pretty
00:26:48good, mini camp more often, or OTKs in mini camp between 70% and 75%, you want it on the
00:26:54higher side of that, so in a one-off setting, that's a really good number to be at while
00:26:59you're still very clearly working through some natural inexperience.
00:27:06Okay, I would say this, again, we don't know anything, but what we can say is what we've
00:27:11heard and seen, and what we've heard from teammates is consistently, he's asking the
00:27:16right questions.
00:27:17Dry Mayo stumbling into him in the quarterback room alone, and it's a beautiful picture to
00:27:22paint, the exact thing you would want to say as a head coach, I'm not saying it was contrived
00:27:25in a PR meeting before they got to the microphone, but if they were to paint the picture, did
00:27:30not happen, that's something everyone is going to love and can picture in their head.
00:27:34But whether it's KJ Osborne saying, Dre came up to me about a route adjustment when I was
00:27:38working with Jacoby Brissett in an OTA practice a couple weeks ago, or it's his offensive
00:27:43lineman, or Andre Stevenson, they're all saying the same things, that I don't think
00:27:48is at all contrived.
00:27:49So for a kid who, yes, is still 21, yes, is still picking up a new system and learning
00:27:53how to process an NFL speed, it seems that his work ethic, in addition to his talent,
00:27:58which was evident in college, is real.
00:28:00How far does that carry him will depend on context, his teammates, the coaches, obviously,
00:28:07but for Drake May, it seems like he's going to reach the maximum potential that he can
00:28:11have on his part.
00:28:13At least, again, we don't know, but that's encouraging to me.
00:28:16This is not a guy who has A, stalled out in OTAs and minicamp, or B, received anything
00:28:24less than glowing endorsements, which matches up with what I'm seeing.
00:28:27Again, it's in the practice stats, it's in just the plays that we just cited, and it's
00:28:31afterward in the press conference.
00:28:32It's all aligned, it's going one direction, and that direction says he's getting better.
00:28:36And again, we don't know where that's going to go or how much better he's going to be,
00:28:40but that's what we know, and that's encouraging.
00:28:42Your word, your word at the top.
00:28:44Not good, not great, encouraging.
00:28:45There we go.
00:28:46We've reached common ground.
00:28:48I said, reminder, Stevenson, he put a big, giant smile on my face, everyone else who
00:28:54was talking, not my face, the famous social media platform, but anyone who was near him
00:29:00talking about his contract extension, because he said the words pretty close when answering
00:29:05a question about, hey, do you feel like you're close?
00:29:07And he was direct to last night.
00:29:10It was like, oh my God, what is this segment?
00:29:11What do we do now?
00:29:13Do you know anything more about this?
00:29:14And what was your read on whether or not the Patriots should extend reminder, Stevenson?
00:29:18Well, I love the candor, the honesty, and is willing to kind of help out the news cycle,
00:29:24that's for sure.
00:29:25I think pretty close was a bit of an overestimation.
00:29:29I don't think anything's imminent.
00:29:30I know they've been making some progress.
00:29:33I think there'd be a major, not a major, there would be a hurdle to clear if something like
00:29:39that was going to be agreed upon in the next 24 hours.
00:29:43But look, things are moving in the right direction.
00:29:46And I think it's consistent with what Elliott Wolf-
00:29:48Can you share what that hurdle might be?
00:29:50Probably money.
00:29:51Yes.
00:29:54Okay, good question by me.
00:29:55But you know that sometimes it's the length, right?
00:29:57Like it's, you know, how long do we want to keep you in for running backs?
00:29:59That's the question.
00:30:00How much longer do we want to give you, you know, on this contract or this extension, right?
00:30:06Because you're in your physical prime now.
00:30:07What we're paying for is a player past his prime, theoretically, right?
00:30:11I mean, honestly, it could be something as simple as structure.
00:30:14They could be sitting here saying, all right, you know, I'm throwing stuff against the wall
00:30:18with this because they're just not going to open the window to these negotiations until
00:30:23they're done.
00:30:24But like, it could be something as simple as saying, all right, we're good on the guaranteed
00:30:29money through two years or, you know, 75% of it through two years.
00:30:34We just have to figure out how to structure it the best way to get this thing on the books
00:30:38in time.
00:30:39It could be something very similar to that.
00:30:42And that could be why Ramadre is sitting there saying it's pretty close because they've agreed
00:30:46on the important parts of the deal.
00:30:48They just need to work out some other things on the back end before everything is kind
00:30:52of passed between sides and agreed upon.
00:30:54So it could be something extremely simple where it just, you know, with a lot of stuff
00:30:58happening, it could take two or three days or it could take a week, whatever.
00:31:03But I think it's consistent with the way Elliot Wolfe and Gerard Mayo have worked here.
00:31:07They know how important it is to reward the guys who have put in the time.
00:31:12And yeah, they understand there's absolutely a perception of sitting here saying, oh, well,
00:31:17you know, they're bringing back a bunch of guys from a four and 13 team, but it's not
00:31:21like they're bringing back the wrong guys.
00:31:22I mean, they're paying the good players and you have to do that.
00:31:26The foundation has to start somewhere.
00:31:28You can't just change an entire locker room for the sake of change.
00:31:31And I know the other part, too.
00:31:33I've probably mentioned it in the past, but it's true.
00:31:36It's worth repeating.
00:31:37When you pay the right guys and you pay the in-house guys, that carries weight with everybody
00:31:42in the locker room because they've seen the work firsthand and they know that guy deserves
00:31:47to get rewarded.
00:31:48And that makes everybody else kind of want to work a little harder because they're going
00:31:51to sit there and say, hey, you know what?
00:31:52I'm doing all the right things.
00:31:53And eventually my time will come, as opposed to saying, and I understand the reaction.
00:31:58You want to build a team like a Madden squad or whatever and just bring in the highest
00:32:02rated free agents.
00:32:03But that doesn't work in real life.
00:32:05And there is a method to this.
00:32:07So that's why I think all I mean, even before Ramondre said it yesterday, I would have,
00:32:14I would have, I'm trying to not say expected, predicted, predicted is the word I'm looking
00:32:20for, that he was going to be one of the next guys up for a new deal too.
00:32:25So I was slightly skeptical just because of the nature of the position, the market, the
00:32:29way it's been treated.
00:32:30And the running back market got a big boost with top of the line deals, Saquon Barkley
00:32:33being the most obvious example, this past off season.
00:32:36And that stuff is usually in flux, but I think we understand again, the shelf life of a good
00:32:40to great running back is very short.
00:32:42You know, you're not seeing any 30 year old running backs out there breaking extra tackles,
00:32:46leading the league in rushing, or even remotely close.
00:32:48Stevenson's not close to being 30.
00:32:50But again, this is a, this would be money spent, you know, down the road when he's not
00:32:54going to be probably as good as he is right now, or it might be this season.
00:32:57Setting that aside, I did like the idea of this is kind of leverage piping, like we're
00:33:03close because, and I'm not saying this to leverage play, but if the deal's not done,
00:33:08no one's going to be blaming the guy that they're drafting in fantasy, whose jersey
00:33:11you're wearing at home, sitting on the couch on Sundays, and is probably their best offensive
00:33:16player, not named Mike Onwenu.
00:33:17So it'll be, hey, Elliot, what's going on, man?
00:33:21And it'll be very dead in June, and we'll let this go by.
00:33:23But if it was supposedly close in June, he said this, you know, no one says this.
00:33:27What's happening?
00:33:28It can't be his fault.
00:33:28He wants to be here.
00:33:30Related to that, actually, let's stop, because I do want to bring up Devon Gottschall in
00:33:35a second.
00:33:36Any other offensive takeaways, whether they were the press conferences, or just what you
00:33:40saw in the field, Jaheim Bell got a lot of love, I would say, from people who watched
00:33:44practice, Jalen Polk did.
00:33:45You know, he caught two touchdowns.
00:33:46One was an out, Rowdy beat Christian Gonzalez.
00:33:49Another one was over the middle from Bailey Zappi.
00:33:51Good practice.
00:33:52Three catches, because they're in the tight red zone.
00:33:54Two were touchdowns.
00:33:55Great.
00:33:56I'm not going nuts over it.
00:33:58But what did you make of it?
00:34:00Yeah, Polk had a really good day.
00:34:03I thought that was a really, it was an impressive performance, because he was, I believe, off
00:34:08the top of my head, he was productive with both starting caliber quarterbacks, which
00:34:13is important, because you want balance there when it comes to your targets, and you don't
00:34:17want to, I don't want to just bombard some former players still in the league, but you
00:34:25and I know, when there's a quarterback battle, and one of those guys catches 30 passes in
00:34:30training camp from the backup, and four from the starter, that usually isn't a good sign
00:34:36for that receiver.
00:34:37So when you see a balanced level of production, that's a good thing.
00:34:41Yeah, he had one from each quarterback.
00:34:43He was bouncing around, and I'll say this too, just because we're on receivers, the
00:34:48top receivers working both consistently with Jacoby Brissett were KJ Osborne, who had one
00:34:54catch on four targets, and Tyquan Thornton, who had two catches on five targets, and really
00:34:58has not performed in a way that you would expect for a third-year guy to put on muscle
00:35:03and seems to have finally gotten it.
00:35:04Behind him was Juju, then sometimes Jalen Polk, and I'm forgetting who the fourth-class
00:35:10fish bite receiver was, but that's why I say one of each.
00:35:12They bounced around, but it was really the vets at the top.
00:35:14DeMario Douglas works second team most often.
00:35:18Yeah, Douglas's catch to close out Jacoby Brissett's first possession with the spike
00:35:24and the scream at the back of the end zone, that was a great catch, and it wasn't the
00:35:30best throw, but his ability to kind of lean back and fall and make a great play, every
00:35:37ounce of that celebration was well earned.
00:35:40Yes, yeah, full extension, two hands.
00:35:42I tweeted about it in time, and it was fit between two defenders, so I don't know if
00:35:46it was, you know, we talk about reaching back.
00:35:48It wasn't a great throw.
00:35:52You're right, it might have been the only window.
00:35:55Maybe my criticism of the throw was unfair.
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00:37:31Last tidbits from me, Jamichael Hasty had more catches than anybody else at practice.
00:37:35I like him more and more, obviously as a kind of a backup, third down back.
00:37:40Ideally lean a lot on Stevenson, right?
00:37:41And Antonio Gibson, who I think has looked good, solid.
00:37:44Like, I like what I've seen from him.
00:37:47Not necessarily, like, loved or gone crazy.
00:37:50The tight ends were quiet.
00:37:50Hunter Henry had four catches on six targets.
00:37:53The two that he didn't catch were broken up.
00:37:56Speaks to a little bit of iffy separation.
00:37:58Austin Hooper, a lot of overthrows in his direction.
00:38:00Jaheim Bell, we mentioned, but I just need to see more from him and especially with pads on.
00:38:04We can all go crazy about these rookies, but this is Trey Nixon season.
00:38:08As you once reminded me, you didn't put it like that.
00:38:10You were kinder about it, but it was like, I want to see what the guy looks like with
00:38:13pads on.
00:38:13He's got speed, he should look good.
00:38:16Offensive line, still Chukumo, Core 4, left tackle, City South, left guard.
00:38:20I've heard really good things about City South going into year two.
00:38:23And look, he's in his mid-20s.
00:38:24Like, this is a guy who can rent a car already anywhere he wants to go.
00:38:29So he should look good.
00:38:30This is the physical prime of his career.
00:38:32David Andrews, I mentioned, backed up by Tony Mafia, Nick Leverett.
00:38:36And right guard was Michael Moneo and Nick Leverett.
00:38:40And then Caden Wallace at right tackle, who I don't love the right tackle reps for Caden
00:38:43Wallace.
00:38:44If that's a dude who might be your left tackle in case of Core 4, doesn't work out, and he's
00:38:48just at his old college position, I probably would try to keep him there and then flex
00:38:52Calvin Anderson in and out, but Darian Lowe.
00:38:54But am I making too much of that?
00:38:56No, I do remember Isaiah Wynn's rookie mini camp when they had Trent Brown at left tackle
00:39:07and Wynn at left guard.
00:39:08And it was like, oh, maybe that's the direction they're headed.
00:39:11And I can't remember how they started the season.
00:39:15They both played tackle.
00:39:16I can't remember which sides they were on.
00:39:18But this is the time, like Mayo said it before practice, this is the time to kind of see
00:39:22where guys fit.
00:39:24Maybe you can measure up their footwork and see if that's a side that they can handle
00:39:28or a space that they can handle, depending if they move in or out or whatever.
00:39:32But I mean, if it's training camp and the pads are on and they're working on the running
00:39:38game and they're still kind of mixing and matching quite a bit, then I would heighten
00:39:43the alarm bells.
00:39:45Yeah, I just want him to get more run at left tackle.
00:39:47Like if he's really in the mix there, maybe he's not.
00:39:49Maybe they just said Chikumo Core 4 looks great.
00:39:52He's going to be a left tackle and that's that.
00:39:54And Calvin Anderson's a backup.
00:39:55I don't know.
00:39:56Calvin Anderson has played on the left side.
00:39:57I would just want to give Wallace a little bit more run because they were so in transition.
00:40:03Why is he still a right tackle?
00:40:08Let's pivot to defense.
00:40:09I would assume because of how much time he spent watching Drake made the offense, there
00:40:12wasn't as much invested on this side of the ball.
00:40:14And there were some notable absences.
00:40:17Joshua Che, for reasons unknown, Seoni Takitaki, Jelani Tavae are dealing with injuries, seemingly.
00:40:23Other injuries we should mention, Jayvon Baker didn't participate.
00:40:27Marcellus Dial, six-round corner, didn't participate.
00:40:29Jonathan Jones also hung out to the side.
00:40:31Not a whole lot from him.
00:40:32But I want to go back to Godchow because we have all this buzz that I'm at you on.
00:40:38He participated.
00:40:38He talked about it today on ZLX, our good pal, Mike Giardi.
00:40:42And he said, look, I'm not holding out.
00:40:44We're close on a contract.
00:40:46Is there any chance Javon Godchow is not close on a contract and he's upset about that?
00:40:51Because he's in the last year of his deal.
00:40:52It's over $7 million base salary, but none of it is guaranteed.
00:40:56This is a dude who had a helmet on, but no jersey.
00:40:59Just a sweatshirt.
00:41:00Didn't really stretch.
00:41:01Hung out on the positional drills.
00:41:02And maybe he's necked up.
00:41:03I don't know.
00:41:05But to me, that's what a hold-in would look like if it was a hold-in.
00:41:09Maybe that's something I got to look into.
00:41:12I've tried.
00:41:12I've got nothing.
00:41:13Otherwise, I would be sharing and asking.
00:41:15Yeah, no, that was off my radar.
00:41:18So I can't speak to that.
00:41:20But the one thing that kind of gets the wheels turning is this was a big offseason.
00:41:26It's two straight big offseasons for defensive tackles.
00:41:29So those guys are at a spot where they can kind of jump on the trend of the league and
00:41:33get paid.
00:41:34So I could certainly see him wanting more money if he believes it's earned.
00:41:39Absolutely.
00:41:41Among those defensive tackles, of course, was Christian Farmore, who
00:41:44everyone now knows is the second highest paid Patriot ever by total contract value.
00:41:49And so Devon's looking at him being like, come on.
00:41:54He's a good player.
00:41:55But I've been around.
00:41:56I'm a nose tackle.
00:41:56You don't have a real viable replacement for me when you want to go to those odd fronts.
00:42:00And I'm at the zero nose, straight up over the center.
00:42:02I got to control, play two gaps.
00:42:05Anyway, just something to keep an eye on.
00:42:06And it might not be anything.
00:42:08But I would think we talk about extension candidates.
00:42:11He's down the list if you're the Patriots, right?
00:42:13If Ramondre's close.
00:42:15Let's talk about Matt Judon.
00:42:19We don't know exactly where he is health wise.
00:42:21Let's just assume 100%, whether it's now, whether it's going to be in a month.
00:42:26I'm encouraged if you're a fan that he doesn't want to hold in anymore.
00:42:31I think he called it trash last year.
00:42:32He doesn't want to do the agency side.
00:42:33He's got football goals.
00:42:35He wants to play football.
00:42:36He wants to be remembered as a great football player.
00:42:40But there's a business side of this.
00:42:41If you're the Patriots going, do we really want to pay a guy who's 32 coming off the edge
00:42:45and coming off injury?
00:42:46Where do you stand on everything about Judon?
00:42:49That's the type of guy that you want to make sure is happy.
00:42:52And by all accounts, I've heard great things about him.
00:42:56I know he's very invested in the community here.
00:42:58He's done some outstanding work.
00:43:00I've crossed paths with him at various charity events.
00:43:04So that's somebody that has certainly earned it.
00:43:08And I'm not saying you've got to pay him a top five pass rusher or anything like that.
00:43:13But you look at the age and where he could slot and you want to make him maybe of comparable
00:43:18aged players.
00:43:20You want to make sure that he's one of the most well-paid players at his spot.
00:43:26I also thought it was interesting.
00:43:27I think another way he used to describe the hold-in situation was like a temper tantrum
00:43:32or whatever.
00:43:34I don't know.
00:43:36I've never encountered a real issue with the way that he's conducted his business.
00:43:42I think he has done it at a professional level.
00:43:46And I would be surprised if the Patriots let something like this spiral out of control.
00:43:53OK, I don't think it'll happen either.
00:43:55And the thing we also need to all keep in mind, given we only talked about it most of
00:43:58this offseason, they still lead the NFL in cap space.
00:44:02Believe me, you, that's not lost on Matt Judon, Romandre Stevenson, Devon Gauchow, and all
00:44:08of their respective agents.
00:44:09So they've got the money.
00:44:10They need to spend it.
00:44:10They've made clear they want to extend guys.
00:44:12They've extended guys.
00:44:13So for everyone else to go, hey, where's my money?
00:44:16Totally legitimate.
00:44:17It's just about how much and for how long.
00:44:20The chief obstacles, as we've just uncovered in contract negotiations a couple of 10 minutes
00:44:25ago.
00:44:26We'll come back to Judon in a second with a mailbag question.
00:44:28Anything else had your attention though on defense?
00:44:30I have a couple of things here, but I'm curious.
00:44:32You jumping in day one.
00:44:35After a few weeks away, what had your eye?
00:44:38Christian Gonzalez stood out.
00:44:40He didn't have a perfect day.
00:44:41Like you said earlier, he got beat on a touchdown.
00:44:43I wonder if that was a type of play where if he were able to play with more physicality,
00:44:48he would have not allowed such a free release on that out route in the end zone.
00:44:53I mean, he gave up.
00:44:55Probably three catches, so not was it four?
00:45:00So not a Stefan Gilmore in 2019 type of camp, but I thought he had a good day.
00:45:06What I like is the range, how smooth he looks.
00:45:13He might not be one of the best cornerbacks in the league this year, but his potential
00:45:21to get to that point I think is very real.
00:45:25The fluidity that he plays with, I thought he had a really good day.
00:45:29Again, you're going to get beat, especially in this setting.
00:45:32Stefan Gilmore and Darrell Rivas a few years before him had two of the most dominant,
00:45:38the two most dominant camps from a cornerback I've ever seen, and it's not even close.
00:45:43These shutouts, I think you have to appreciate them when they have them.
00:45:47He didn't have a shutout, of course, but I like the physical tools.
00:45:51I think he's the real deal.
00:45:54Yeah, I'm with you.
00:45:55I had him as a dud.
00:45:56We do the stun gun duds in my report.
00:45:59The first line of that report, specifically Gonzalez, was, look, he's a victim of his own
00:46:05high standard.
00:46:06That's a standard, as I want to remind people of, I would like to see him play a fifth NFL
00:46:11game before I fit him for a red and or gold jacket, but the potential, as you just referenced
00:46:16in detail, is evident.
00:46:19It's there.
00:46:19It's obvious.
00:46:20That's why we're all so excited, even if maybe we need to pump the brakes, because this is
00:46:23a kid who was 20 when he was drafted.
00:46:25Specific to Monday, he did allow four catches and five targets, broke up the other one.
00:46:31He ran consistently with the ones.
00:46:33He can guard all types of receivers.
00:46:36I'm not going to be up in arms or even lifting a finger over this one day, but I'm going
00:46:41to write it down because this is what happened, and he's a guy I would expect to do have been
00:46:44better than four or five.
00:46:46Opposite him, though, is something that caught my eye because they rotate a lot of young
00:46:50corners across from Christian Gonzalez in that starting spot, and even some who got
00:46:55kicked inside, like Isaiah Bolden.
00:46:56We're talking to 6'1", 6'2", corner, super athletic, and Doug asked Gerard Mayo about
00:47:01this before.
00:47:01He's like, hey, what do you like about Bolden in the slot?
00:47:04He's a big dude.
00:47:05Gerard was like, that's a good question, and that was his exact tone.
00:47:11We kind of ran out of bodies, and that's what it is.
00:47:14To refer back to Gerard being a little bit more open, and I would say authentic with
00:47:19us, when he says, I don't know, or that's a good question, we're just trying it out,
00:47:22he usually means it.
00:47:23Won't always be true, but anyway, it was Bolden, it was Marco Wilson, who they signed late
00:47:29last year, and there's one other corner I'm forgetting now, which is absolutely going
00:47:32to kill me.
00:47:33It wasn't a ZZ Hearn, it wasn't Marcus Jones, who?
00:47:38Was it Alex Austin?
00:47:40Alex Austin, yes, thank you.
00:47:41So they all got time with the ones at various stretches.
00:47:43No rotating these things, but those guys, Bolden, Wilson, and Austin held up pretty
00:47:49well, and I think they finished as a defense with five or six pass breakups, and Peppers
00:47:53had one, and Duggar said the pick, and Gonzalez had one, but I think this is a deeper group
00:47:58than I was giving it credit for, based on just what I knew about them, the limited tape,
00:48:02and their athletic profiles.
00:48:03Like, I think this is, these might be some hard cuts come end of August.
00:48:09Yeah, that one's a little out of my comfort zone, I can't, I'm not, you know, I'm not
00:48:17going to blow smoke to the people.
00:48:18I could hear the thud of the doo-doo that I just dropped on your doorstep and walked
00:48:22away from, being like, I hope, like, I thought it was good information, but it was the wrong
00:48:27place to put that, I should say.
00:48:28It wasn't doo-doo, it was just, you know, the wrong, I don't know, I'm out of analogies.
00:48:31Dallas is messing with my brain, but anything else catch your eye about the defense before
00:48:35we have two questions in the mailbag and we'll get you out of here?
00:48:38No, the only thing I would just add to that is, look, the Patriots have proven time and
00:48:42again that they know how to scout cornerbacks, so if any of these guys do emerge into starters,
00:48:48then that wouldn't surprise me whatsoever.
00:48:50Yeah, um, Marte Maupin with a pass breakup, safety position is still going to be really,
00:48:56really good, um, that's, that's the only other thing I would add.
00:48:59Jalen Hawkins, again, still has my eye and he's more of a free safety, but I'm not expecting
00:49:04this giant leap.
00:49:05I just wish he had picked a different number because the man is wearing the number 32 in
00:49:09the exact same way that Devin McCourty wore it for over a freaking decade and I can't
00:49:13get Devin out of my head and even talk to Devin about it, he's like, yeah, I've heard
00:49:17that, he's doing the same thing, I go, yeah.
00:49:19It's, uh, anyway, no one cares.
00:49:21Watching him play, yeah, playing that single high deep safety spot several times drove
00:49:27me absolutely bonkers.
00:49:29Uh, it was, um, it was, it was tough as somebody who's kind of flown, flying in from 30,000
00:49:36feet and then the other part too is like with Julian Edelman in attendance, Tyquan Thornton
00:49:41can't wear number 11 and drop the first pass of practice, like that's just one of those
00:49:44things, Edelman couldn't have loved that.
00:49:46No, yeah, and he was there.
00:49:48Um, oh, speaking of Edelman, he'll be there for Tom Brady's event, uh, Wednesday night.
00:49:54I don't have anything on this.
00:49:55Is this in your comfort zone?
00:49:57The Brady night?
00:49:58Yeah.
00:49:59I mean, I'm going to be there.
00:50:01I, I, I've heard of Tom Brady.
00:50:03So where are we going with this?
00:50:06I don't know, wherever you want it to go with it.
00:50:08I, I know details have come out that, uh, Bill Burr is going to do an opening monologue
00:50:12or open or maybe MC.
00:50:13I think there's a country music star who has, uh, frequented Gillette stadium.
00:50:18I know who will be there as well.
00:50:19I don't know if he's performing, but this is billed as kind of a show.
00:50:22So music, maybe some standup is going to go on.
00:50:25Um, I know my parents are going, that's, that's, this is the extent.
00:50:29That's why I asked you, this is not, this is not great podcast.
00:50:32Bill Burr is my favorite comedian.
00:50:34So, um, and I was, I got in on the ground floor with that one.
00:50:39Um, have I ever told you my, can, can we get into story time or yeah, definitely.
00:50:45So I, man, this is probably 2000.
00:50:49Yeah, it was 2010.
00:50:50I'm in year two at nesson.com.
00:50:52This is the first year they started to put me on TV.
00:50:55And I want to say I'd been on TV like less than five times.
00:50:58I mean, this could have legitimately been like the second or third time I'd ever been on TV.
00:51:02So I'm in the, in the offices and, uh, somebody's like, Oh, you got to go with the makeup artists.
00:51:08And I was like, no, I don't.
00:51:10And they're like, Oh yeah, you do.
00:51:11You gotta go get makeup on right now.
00:51:12I'm like, I've never done makeup.
00:51:14Like I don't need to do the makeup.
00:51:15And they're like, insistent.
00:51:17No, no.
00:51:18Like we paid a makeup artist to come in.
00:51:19Like everybody's doing the makeup.
00:51:21You need to go do makeup.
00:51:22And I was like, I really, really don't want to do makeup.
00:51:25And they're like, well, you're going to do makeup if you want this TV check.
00:51:28So I'm like, well, then I'm going to go do the makeup, but I'm not going to be happy about it.
00:51:32So I'm like going away.
00:51:34And as I'm walking away, uh, one of the producers is like, Oh, I gotta go let Bill in.
00:51:38And I don't know who Bill is.
00:51:39Could have been an intern.
00:51:41Could have been somebody without a key card, but they had to let somebody named Bill in.
00:51:44So I go, um, into this makeup room and I'm getting all this makeup put on for the only
00:51:50time in my life.
00:51:51This like, I, this was ridiculous.
00:51:54So then all of a sudden I hear a very familiar voice coming down the hallway toward the studio.
00:52:00And I'm like, of course, of course, I'm going to give a chance to meet Bill Burr for the first
00:52:05time and maybe the only time.
00:52:06And I'm sitting here with like makeup caked on my face.
00:52:10And I'm like, this is, and you know, I'm, I'm 27 at the time.
00:52:13Like, I'm not, I'm not loving the fact that, you know, they put me through this whole experience,
00:52:17but I get out there and like, I got to introduce, introduce myself to this guy as my favorite
00:52:20comedian.
00:52:21And I'm in my own head, of course, as, as anybody that young would be.
00:52:26And he couldn't have been nicer.
00:52:27I was ready to get like roasted for wearing makeup.
00:52:30All he wanted to do was just talk Patriots.
00:52:32And like, this whole thing was probably like a minute or two.
00:52:36And it was, it was really cool.
00:52:37I was very excited about that whole thing.
00:52:39And then I went in the next day and I told one of the producers, I was like, what was
00:52:43with the makeup situation last night?
00:52:45And he's like, well, you should have said no.
00:52:47I'm like, I did about 42 times.
00:52:49He's like, well, from now on, like, if they try to tell you, just, just tell them no and
00:52:54walk away.
00:52:54So the only time I've ever worn makeup in my entire life happened to be the time that
00:52:59I met my favorite comedian, but thankfully he couldn't have been nicer.
00:53:02Good.
00:53:03Yeah.
00:53:03I was, as you were telling that story, I'm like, okay, what's Bill going to say?
00:53:06What would the joke be?
00:53:06What would the first like one-liner be seeing you dolled up like a clown, which for the
00:53:11record, nothing wrong with wearing makeup.
00:53:13It's a comfort thing.
00:53:14I've never had that forced pomade over at NBC.
00:53:17I would decline it politely.
00:53:18I think probably take it after the second push, but kind of understand why you were
00:53:22reluctant.
00:53:23And that's a good story.
00:53:25That's, it's, I, you love hearing those where it's, you know, the celebrity story could
00:53:30go one of two ways.
00:53:31These are people who have a lot of attention and we're always sought out.
00:53:33We're always stopped in the street.
00:53:34They can be a total jerk because sometimes they also just deal with a lot of jerks and
00:53:38he just took the time and it talks and that's, he was an everyman.
00:53:41Yeah.
00:53:41It was awesome.
00:53:42Cool.
00:53:42Okay.
00:53:43Speaking of paths, two questions.
00:53:45First one, Matt Judon is from Lawrence.
00:53:47Are the Patriots looking to sign Judon for one or two years?
00:53:51Would you be willing to go for two years?
00:53:54Yeah.
00:53:55Yeah.
00:53:55I mean, I don't, I know he's, he's had the recent injury.
00:53:59Um, but like, he's, he's a pro.
00:54:02He's not somebody that you can never, you can never fully predict how the injury path
00:54:08will, will take a player, but he's not somebody that I would expect is all of a sudden going
00:54:12to fall off a cliff with, uh, the way that he prepares himself, uh, just fall off a cliff
00:54:16in terms of, uh, his body breaking down or anything like that.
00:54:19I would be comfortable paying him.
00:54:22I would too.
00:54:23And again, the question is always money, right?
00:54:25Like this is the same thing with trades when they come up and we're doing segments for
00:54:28podcasts or radio and it's like, Oh, they should trade up.
00:54:30Well, what are you giving up?
00:54:32What are you getting in return?
00:54:32I need specifics here.
00:54:34And I remember the numbers we threw around last year in around 15, 16 million for guys
00:54:38who are on the edge, Trey Hendricks in a really comparable deal.
00:54:40Now he's upset with his contract.
00:54:42I would also go two years, but my push would be that 2026 season, right?
00:54:48So if it was extension, you know, one year would be 2025 next year.
00:54:51And then two would be 26.
00:54:52It's going to be kind of an empty year, like a fake year, right?
00:54:55No guaranteed money.
00:54:57We'll make you whole now because he's at about seven or eight and we have to reconfigure
00:55:01for cap reasons anyway.
00:55:02We'll give you a full good 2025 year.
00:55:04You're going to be 33 when you're 34, like you got to earn it.
00:55:09Maybe we can revisit that later.
00:55:10And if he insists on that being a little bit more of a partial guarantee in 26, then you
00:55:16got to give me something now, right?
00:55:17It's not going to be all three years.
00:55:19You're made whole now.
00:55:19We'll give you two full years guaranteed because again, just like Stevenson, typically with
00:55:23running backs, you know, we're not paying for prime match you down anymore.
00:55:27This dude's a four time pro bowler.
00:55:28I don't think he's going to get to six.
00:55:31Hopefully he does, but I would not bet on that.
00:55:33I don't think most people would.
00:55:34So that's how I would approach this.
00:55:37One more question for you.
00:55:39This question comes from Tatish, DM today.
00:55:43With close to $46 million in cap space in June 1st in the rearview mirror, will the
00:55:47Patriots look to sign veteran free agents recently let go with a post June one designation?
00:55:53To supplement the roster.
00:55:55If so, any names on offense or defense that may be a good fit.
00:55:58So this is a small number of players post one June one designations.
00:56:02My answer is no, because they had a undrafted rookie receiver out of Doug tweeted this.
00:56:10I think Stanford yesterday, try out on a rookie basis.
00:56:13And we know this is a youth movement.
00:56:15So I'm still on the record with love.
00:56:16David Bakhtiar already come on down.
00:56:18Charles Leno, someone who's played left tackle, even if you're older.
00:56:20But I just they're embracing not a tank, but just a complete makeover and embracing
00:56:29all of the young players that they're going to play.
00:56:32Yeah, they're in a tough spot.
00:56:33I'm with you on the left tackle situation.
00:56:36But like, you know, realistically, like, what is their ceiling this season?
00:56:41I mean, even if so, you have to overpay in order to get the guy in.
00:56:49That would take away.
00:56:50I'm not using this as an excuse, but that would take away from what you could potentially
00:56:54spend next offseason when you should.
00:56:57When Wolf and Mayo should have a better idea of where they're going to be going into 2025,
00:57:02when the money would be more valuable to use.
00:57:05Burning some cash, baby, right?
00:57:07You just you have to be cognizant of the process.
00:57:11And, you know, if you have if all of a sudden, like a game breaking receiver gets cut loose
00:57:17or becomes available and, you know, you have a chance to really make your offense more
00:57:22dynamic over the next three or four years by giving away a big contract.
00:57:26And again, that's that's probably a bad example, because what guy is going to get cut loose
00:57:32at this stage?
00:57:32Who can offer that?
00:57:33But yeah, I mean, usually you're going to see a lot of those guys just take less money
00:57:39for a one year deal to go to try to, you know, knock off the Chiefs or something like that.
00:57:44I mean, and realistically, you just you don't see that happening in Foxborough in 24.
00:57:49Yeah, and there are some good names out there, and we can parse through and go through them.
00:57:54You know, like, you know, I can more and explain why.
00:57:56But I just think this isn't an answer that goes case by case, right?
00:58:00Why do you add this receiver?
00:58:01Why do you add that offensive tackle?
00:58:02The broad answer covers all of them.
00:58:04And the broad answer is they're going to play the young guys to develop them, draft and
00:58:09develop.
00:58:10Elliott Wolf told us this at the Combine.
00:58:12They followed through in free agency.
00:58:14They did two in the draft.
00:58:15He's told you his plan.
00:58:16They executed it from the quarterback and how they handled that, as you reported around
00:58:20the Combine as well.
00:58:22So that's what they're doing.
00:58:23And so the tie is going to go to the young kid, and they're going to deal with the ongoing
00:58:25pains.
00:58:26And honestly, they have the latitude and the time to do that.
00:58:28So this is now what they're going to do.
00:58:31I think it's the right time for it.
00:58:33Again, it's going to be a lot of pain, but that's why you're not going to see them import
00:58:37all these veterans, no matter who you want to name, because the goal isn't to win now.
00:58:42It's to lay the foundation, speed and develop and grow.
00:58:46And it's going to be a rough one.
00:58:48Patriots have the second toughest schedule in the league.
00:58:51Yeah, I mean, the toughest.
00:58:52Like, I think they will have somewhere along the lines, a big upset in a way that we have
00:58:58not seen.
00:58:59Like their only hallmark win over the last five years was one, two, three, four or four
00:59:06years was Buffalo last year at home.
00:59:09And that was in late October.
00:59:11And before that, they beat the Ravens in 20 and a rainstorm that Bill may or may not
00:59:16have conjured or set up right as the Ravens were trying to drive down a two minute drill
00:59:20at the end.
00:59:20But like, that's it.
00:59:21And so I think there will be a lot of losses, but they're going to punch above their weight
00:59:25and the record's not going to be good.
00:59:27But I've decided this is my take on the season.
00:59:30It might be the Niners.
00:59:32It might be the Bills at the end again, but they're going to get someone because it's
00:59:37the NFL.
00:59:38Yeah, I mean, like even just getting back to the ceiling part, like if they win eight
00:59:44games, because Drake may really, I'm not saying they're going to win eight games.
00:59:48I saw your head basically almost twist off your body.
00:59:51But if they win eight games, as with the 90, that'll get pared down that they currently
00:59:58have now.
01:00:00And it's because Drake may plays really well and the offense starts to take shape and the
01:00:05defense reaches its potential.
01:00:08They'll be ecstatic if they win eight games because they fill out their roster with like
01:00:13six or seven veterans who are not going to be part of their long-term plans.
01:00:17And it's sort of a mask more than anything, because the young guys didn't develop and
01:00:22whatever, then that's going to hurt their draft stock.
01:00:25And I don't think they should be as happy about winning eight games that way.
01:00:29It took me a long way to try to get your head screwed back on the right way.
01:00:33So I apologize for the whiplash there, but that's kind of what I was getting at.
01:00:37Well, I think it's, you know, we talk about short-term, long-term planning.
01:00:42You get all those veterans, let's say, let's say they go balls out instead to the exact
01:00:47opposite of what I just talked about.
01:00:48That is a sugar high.
01:00:50That is just instant gratification for instant gratification sake.
01:00:53You're not going to go anywhere with the players that are still in the street, not because
01:00:56the Patriots left them on the street, but because all 32 NFL teams said, yeah, that's
01:01:00okay.
01:01:01We don't need you.
01:01:01You know, like, okay, you win seven, eight games.
01:01:04What then?
01:01:04You're not drafting at the top where you get potentially a franchise left tackle or number
01:01:10one wide receiver for Drake may provided that he developed.
01:01:13So, you know, that's where you want to be.
01:01:16One more draft that high, get a guy to premium position, supplement the roster and free agency.
01:01:21Keep extending guys.
01:01:22You want to keep let the Trent Browns and Davante Parkers and expensive core special
01:01:26teamers walk out the door.
01:01:28So that's that.
01:01:29All right.
01:01:29We are heading into the off season.
01:01:31Are you going to be at training camp much?
01:01:33If at all this year, maybe doing another tour.
01:01:35I'm doing another tour still in the very early stages of putting that together.
01:01:40And hopefully it's wrapped up within the next three weeks, ideally.
01:01:47But depending on whether I go back out a second or third time, we'll factor into how much
01:01:52I'm down at Foxborough.
01:01:54I mean, I'm going to make it a point to be there.
01:01:56I just don't know if it'll be one day like last year or if, you know, if I'm at home
01:02:01for a chunk in the middle or end of August, I don't even know what their joint practice
01:02:05schedule looks like, to be honest.
01:02:06So I could be talking and you're going to be and you're sitting there like, well, no,
01:02:09they're going to be in Nashville that week, dummy.
01:02:13But yeah, if it all works out and I'm not on the road, I want to be down there to see
01:02:17like just how that quarterback battle shakes out and just to see like some of the new things
01:02:20that Mayo and Wolf have implemented and how this how this franchise continues to just
01:02:25look different because it's a new era and it's fascinating and it's not that hard for
01:02:28me to find my way down there.
01:02:30No, it's not.
01:02:32I think you will be gone when they have joint practices.
01:02:34Last I heard, I think they're going to shoot for one practice.
01:02:37It might be before the Eagles preseason game.
01:02:39Don't hold me to that.
01:02:40And part of this is, you know, a lot of fights in day two.
01:02:44Guys get hot.
01:02:44They get worn down to seeing the same dudes, you know, chirping builds up quickly.
01:02:49But we'll see.
01:02:49They have not officially announced anything yet.
01:02:51I hope you were there so we can, you know, put up on the table and see who wrote the
01:02:56longer practice report for better or worse.
01:02:59I as I as I started brainstorming how I was going to do the practice report after or late
01:03:07yesterday, I'm like, you know what?
01:03:10I focus so much on the quarterbacks that I can't do my traditional one like I still I
01:03:14didn't tally the receiver catches.
01:03:16I didn't I had them written down, but I didn't tell him and I didn't focus so much on the
01:03:21offensive line or the defense because it's just like, you know, I got to play to my
01:03:26strengths at this point.
01:03:27It's hard.
01:03:27It's hard to, like, give it the necessary attention that I used to give them for for
01:03:32years because I was down there so regularly and I knew everything about all 90 guys in
01:03:37camp or let's say 75 of the 90 guys in camp, whereas I just I can't I just I can't do
01:03:45that right now.
01:03:46So it wasn't a 3000 4000 word report.
01:03:49It was it was a solid 2000, you know, we'll see what happens.
01:03:55We'll see what happens on Wednesday.
01:03:57Okay, we sound like such a Hills meeting me more me like, no, no, no care.
01:04:02You also don't have to do it because you're national NFL insider and you don't have to
01:04:04spend any more time in this rinky dink podcast because you're also dad of two.
01:04:08Thank you for coming from the bus stop.
01:04:09That's what I was trying to rip me away from what from it right now.
01:04:13That was my cue.
01:04:14Maybe we'll have them on the summer while you're gone off the tour.
01:04:17We'll just tell we'll tell Jeff stories.
01:04:19They would love that Gateland to okay.
01:04:21Thank you, buddy.
01:04:22I appreciate the time.
01:04:23We'll be back next week.
01:04:24I think 50 is going to come back.
01:04:25You will have behind the scenes stories from Tom Brady's retirement ceremony.
01:04:28We will do our Patriots scrimmage draft the third annual, which feels crazy to see in
01:04:32this podcast and more mailbags.
01:04:34We have someone from Ireland who's going to zoom in.
01:04:36Mike Clancy will be on the show.
01:04:38No male fan today.
01:04:39So this is it.
01:04:39Thank you, Jeff.
01:04:40Thank you, everybody.
01:04:41See you next week.