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This episode of the Patriots Daily Podcast is brought to you by:
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00 [MUSIC]
00:00:10 What's going on everyone?
00:00:20 Taylor Kyle's and Mike Catholic here for CLNS Media coming at you with another
00:00:24 episode of Ask Daily brought to you by our good friends at PrizePix and GameTime.
00:00:28 We got another mailbag episode for you everybody and we are so excited to be joined for the first
00:00:33 time on the show somehow by Christopher Price of the Boston Globe, local legend, someone who's been
00:00:39 I'll say personally incredible to me during my time on the beat buddy. I don't know how it got
00:00:43 this long for me to get you on the show but I'm just excited to finally have you on. So before we
00:00:47 get into the nuts and bolts, the OTAs and all the expectations for stuff that we really don't have
00:00:52 a lot of information about quite yet, how are you doing buddy? How was your weekend? I'm doing great,
00:00:57 I really am and we talked a little bit about before coming on here, unplugging and kind of
00:01:03 getting away especially at this time of year and you guys will realize this too over the next month
00:01:07 or so. You want to unplug but there's always something that's pulling you back in at least
00:01:13 before the start of camp. So it's always nice to get away from football at least for a weekend
00:01:18 but you don't want to unplug too much because there's never a dull moment here when it comes
00:01:22 to covering this day. Amen brother. Mike, what about you buddy? How was your weekend? I didn't
00:01:27 realize I was so lucky to be on the first time Chris Price was on Pats Daily. I thought you
00:01:31 guys had done this before. So no, I'm doing good. I'm happy to get back to an OTA tomorrow which
00:01:38 we'll get to, watch Drake Mann and some other guys sling the rock around. So all is well post
00:01:43 Memorial Day over here. Awesome. All right, so moving on from Memorial Day, let's talk about OTAs.
00:01:48 We'll go down the list, let's talk about something that we're each looking for during the second day
00:01:53 of OTAs that's available to us. They've been still going behind the scenes. They have put a lot of
00:01:58 work in but this is going to be the second one that we've seen. Pricey, I'll start with you.
00:02:01 What are you looking for tomorrow? I'm really looking for more of a, some from 30,000 feet. I
00:02:07 want to look for red flags. Guys who are maybe a little bit overwhelmed, guys who are a little bit
00:02:13 unsure. I always go back to, and I'm going to sound like an old guy here so I'll put on my,
00:02:17 you know, wise old man hat here. The idea of someone not being where they should be when they
00:02:24 need to be there. Chad Ochocinco, I believe it was in 2012, his second season, his abbreviated second
00:02:31 season with the Patriots, lined up in a spot where he clearly should not have been lined up. I think
00:02:37 he was in the slot or something, he should have been that wide. And Deion Branch walked over to
00:02:41 him, grabbed him by the shoulder pads and walked him to a spot where he needed to be. Now, a week
00:02:46 later he was gone from the team so we shouldn't have been all that surprised. But I don't think
00:02:51 we're going to see anything that obvious, but I want to see from some newcomers, guys who might be
00:02:58 a little bit out of sorts for whatever reason. If they don't look natural, if they don't look like
00:03:03 they belong there, they've had a few practices under their belt, they know where everything is,
00:03:08 they know the coaches, you feel like they've gotten acclimated to where they should be in
00:03:13 certain moments, especially within the context of the playbook. But that's what I'm looking for,
00:03:18 again, specifically from the new guys, just an overall sense of being at least at this stage
00:03:25 of their Patriots careers. And was there anything that you saw in the first OTA session that kind of
00:03:29 set that off in your head that made you want to look a little closer at those potential red flags?
00:03:33 Not necessarily, but it's just, and we can get into this, I think we're going to get into this
00:03:37 a little bit later on, there's some really good positional battles. Guys have to have good springs
00:03:44 if they want to be able to cement a roster spot on this team. Guys who are coming back need to have
00:03:50 good springs to be able to cement a roster spot on this team. And so within that conversation,
00:03:55 I want to look for guys who maybe have slipped a little bit, or maybe conversely have kind of
00:04:01 moved ahead of the pack, have done something over the course of the off season to maybe think that
00:04:06 they've got an inside shot at a starting job somewhere. Awesome. Mike, how about you, buddy?
00:04:12 I'll quickly add on to something Chris said just about guys, where they're at, and red flags and
00:04:18 stuff like that. I'm also curious, and we talked about it earlier, Taylor, on our more in-depth
00:04:23 OTA preview, which will be coming out later on on the channel, just how the coaching staff reacts
00:04:29 to it. Because do they run laps anymore after a false start? Do they kind of get in guys' faces
00:04:34 and frankly get pissed off when people mess up? Or is it still teaching time and have things
00:04:41 changed with the new regime? We noted that at rookie mini camp, there was a false start, and
00:04:47 me and Taylor looked at each other, we're like, "Oh, they didn't run a lap. I've never seen that
00:04:50 on a Patriots practice field before." So curious how they handle that stuff. The other thing is
00:04:54 just, again, it's obvious, but it's the quarterback stuff with Drake May. And not so much is he now
00:05:02 the number two taking reps ahead of Bailey Zapp, because on May 28th, I don't really care about
00:05:06 that. You still kind of got to earn your stripes, quote unquote, where you're on the depth chart.
00:05:10 But when they split up across the field and go two quarterbacks and two quarterbacks,
00:05:15 is he still alongside Jacoby Reset? Is he still with Alex Van Pelt? Who's in his ear? Who's sort
00:05:20 of talking him through the offense and getting him up to speed? So the guys who he is also kind
00:05:25 of repping with around him, centers, wide receivers, things like that, that's the stuff that
00:05:30 I'm going to be looking for tomorrow. - Well, I'm going to be looking at,
00:05:34 you know, the talk's been about Drake. We're going to talk more about Drake, when he's going
00:05:37 to start and all that. But I'm really thinking about the rookie pass catchers, the offensive
00:05:41 lineman as well. We've seen so much rotation. I feel like there's not going to be a ton of
00:05:45 clarity there for a while, but with the receivers, you can at least establish like I'm lining up in
00:05:49 the right place. I'm running my reps at the right depths. There's just more, I think you can show
00:05:52 with that position. So we're talking about, obviously, Jalen Polk, a second round pick
00:05:56 where you're hoping this is a guy who can at the very least seize a pretty significant role early
00:06:01 on considering his draft status and the fact he's such a well-rounded player. But then Javon Baker,
00:06:06 obviously a fourth round pick, so not as high expectations, but still someone who fills a
00:06:11 role that you don't have on the team. That guy who can win outside the numbers, exploit those
00:06:15 one-on-one matchups like Elliott Wolfe touched on before the draft, they didn't have that guy.
00:06:19 And I really do think if you can get Polk or Baker or both ideally to be significant role
00:06:24 players, that's where this offense goes from. Okay, you know what? They're not going to lose
00:06:29 you games. Like this is just going to be maybe a league average offense where they're not actively
00:06:34 working against the rest of the team, which is obviously a pretty significant upgrade from last
00:06:39 season. But if you get that juice and you get that vertical ability and these guys who are so good at
00:06:43 the catch point, good separators, things like that, I think you start seeing, okay, they're
00:06:48 starting to creep past just the middle of the pack. They're actually looking like an explosive
00:06:52 offense. And you're hoping with this Alex Van Pelt scheme that brings out the best in them.
00:06:56 Same with Jaheim Bell. I think he brings a skill set and explosiveness. They don't have a tight
00:07:00 end right now. So it doesn't have to be an every down role. I don't think he's ever going to be an
00:07:04 every down player, but if he can have some packages where you use that downfield explosiveness or
00:07:08 his toughness after the catch, I do think once again, that that's when this receiving core
00:07:13 starts to get a little more, I don't want to say intimidating quite yet. They're still young
00:07:16 players, but more respectable, I think is probably the more fair way to go about that.
00:07:21 All right. So let's get into Drake May. Like I said, I spoke his name. We have to bring him up.
00:07:28 When will Drake May start? And in the meantime, who will be that guy? I feel like we answer some
00:07:32 version of this in every mailbag, but I want to get your perspective, especially Chris,
00:07:37 what do you think about the timeline with Drake May? Because when you look at the schedule,
00:07:40 it seems like there are some times where the NFL is like, Hey, if it's going to be, you know,
00:07:44 halfway through the season, three quarters through the season, there's matchups where
00:07:48 you're thinking, okay, Drake May versus Caleb Williams after the halfway mark, or you get
00:07:53 Justin Herbert and Josh Allen twice at the end of the season, where if Drake May starting,
00:07:57 because they're not playing well or whatever happens in that situation, then it's two guys.
00:08:00 He's been compared to a ton. So do you think it's a timeline? Do you think it's really just going to
00:08:05 be whenever he's ready? How do you see that situation playing out and who's QB one in the
00:08:08 meantime? I think QB one in the meantime is Jacoby Brousset and I think we can all agree on that.
00:08:14 From what he's said, the way he's handled himself, the way he's carried himself,
00:08:18 the fact that he's been the first guy taking reps, I think right now he is clearly the number
00:08:23 one quarterback. I think they're going to wait a little while longer, maybe the necessary on
00:08:29 Drake May. I think, and I'm gone on record as saying this, I think his first start in his first
00:08:33 win is going to come December 1st against the Colts. I think it's December 1st. I think that's
00:08:37 the date they're going to wait an awful long time. And I think there's going to be a lot of
00:08:40 conversation around here because Jacoby is going to be the guy who quite frankly is going to get
00:08:45 his ass kicked for the first few weeks of the season by no fault of his own while they figure
00:08:50 out what their offensive identity is, whether, you know, while they get that offensive line together,
00:08:56 where, you know, while they, they figure things out, while they figure out the, the Alex Van Pelt
00:09:00 offense. And so I think Jacoby Brousset is going to be the guy who's going to have to step into
00:09:04 the breach, at least in the short term. But look, by the end of the season, Drake May is going to
00:09:09 be the number one quarterback on this team. So I think it's going to take a little bit,
00:09:13 probably a little longer than maybe most people would like, but I think he's going to be the
00:09:18 number one guy by the end of the season. The other thing too, and we can bring this up and I'm sure
00:09:21 you guys have talked about this already. Elliot Wolfe comes from a place where they perfected
00:09:24 the art of knowing when to start a young quarterback. So I don't want to say, you know,
00:09:29 have faith in the system, but I think he's going to play a sizable role when it comes to making
00:09:35 that decision, flip that switch on a guy like Drake May. I think that's a good. Sorry.
00:09:40 Oh no, just to build on that. So if we do see them wait and kind of give Drake May a little
00:09:47 more time to cook behind the scenes, I'm curious what you think about Bailey Zafi situation. Cause
00:09:51 Mike, we did talk about this on the OTA preview show. You need a real backup quarterback. If
00:09:56 Jacoby, you know, God forbid gets hurt. You don't want to throw Drake May in there. Maybe before you
00:10:00 do feel that he's ready, because once you let that genie out of the bottle, it's going to be really
00:10:04 hard to put it back in. So if Jacoby's out and you say, Hey, we just need somebody for two weeks,
00:10:09 that's probably Bailey's happy on this team. Cause Joe Milton ideally isn't even seeing the field.
00:10:13 Exactly. I agree with you a hundred percent there. And so much of this quarterback conversation
00:10:19 going back to when is Drake May ready to start? I think is going to have a little to do at least
00:10:25 with, with is, you know, what's Bailey's happy going to be doing? You know, what's his spot
00:10:29 on this roster? Is he a guy who has a really good summer and then maybe they spin them out of here
00:10:35 for a fifth round pick to a quarterback needy team that saw their backup go down in the preseason. So
00:10:40 there's a lot of stuff at play here. And I think honestly, Milton is kind of part of that
00:10:45 conversation, but not really. I think that the best possible scenario when you're talking about
00:10:50 Joe Milton is they have to decide whether he's your number three quarterback, or he's going to
00:10:54 go on IR, IR for the year and become a developmental guy. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. He's going to
00:11:01 become a developmental guy for the 2024 season. And then they kind of point them toward 2025. So
00:11:07 there's a lot to think about here and it's not just Jacoby Brissett when Drake May is ready to go.
00:11:13 There's a lot of different aspects of that conversation. Yeah. And the one thing I'll
00:11:16 just add to that is look, there's, there are so many guesses as to when he'll start, right? You
00:11:22 talk about the NFL schedule or the bi-week and you know, where that is and if that, you know,
00:11:27 aligns with where they want to be. But I think the long story short is don't do it. You can't do it
00:11:33 until you're absolutely ready because of what Taylor said, you can't put that genie back in
00:11:38 the bottle. So like, you know, Jacoby Brissett could get hurt or he could be playing really
00:11:42 poorly and they might want to, you know, pull the, pull the plug quicker than they thought,
00:11:46 but you can't do it until you are absolutely 100% comfortable with where Drake May is. And
00:11:52 with this offense, there's too much riding on it. There's too much, you know,
00:11:55 obviously new regime with, with you know, Drodd Mayo in front and offense coordinator,
00:12:00 Alex Van Pelt as well. Like don't pull the trigger. Don't get too happy just because,
00:12:05 you know, you might see him get, you know, make one really flashy play in practice.
00:12:09 And I'm not saying that that's what they're going to do. I just, I hope. And I think that they know
00:12:14 that they need to be very careful with this entire process with them. Yeah. And especially
00:12:18 because 2024 is it kind of almost already feels like a wash. This feels like a team that's getting
00:12:24 ready for 2025. Like it doesn't really matter. I mean, it does, and you're not going to sit here
00:12:29 and tank, but this is about 2025. This is about getting Drake May ready to be an NFL quarterback
00:12:34 for a long time. I still use Mike and I'm glad you bring that up. I still use the, the,
00:12:39 the comparison. And I've said this before, I'm not going to compare Gerard Mayo to Bill Parcells,
00:12:43 but there is a 1993 kind of feel to this team, new coach, new system, new assistant coaches,
00:12:53 the whole bit of complete overhaul. All you want to see is improvement by the end of the year.
00:12:58 You want to see a team that plays competitively in November and December, even though they're
00:13:04 at least in theory, probably in all likelihood anyway, out of the playoff picture, you want to
00:13:08 see guys playing for jobs. You want to see guys trending in the right direction. It starts with
00:13:13 the quarterback position. Again, you know, we saw drew Bledsoe do it in 1993. They want, I think four
00:13:17 straight at the end of the year. That is the best possible scenario for this team. If you take the
00:13:23 playoffs and all of that off the table, you can still have something to shoot for when you're
00:13:28 talking about 2024, 2025 and beyond. I believe Elliott Wolf said that on Kay Adams show earlier,
00:13:34 where he mentioned that really what we want to see this year is improvement. And going back to
00:13:38 Jacoby Bursette, I think what Elliott Wolf has mentioned where he says we have a starting
00:13:43 quarterback in Jacoby, they said that all the way back when he was signed before they did draft a
00:13:47 quarterback, Gerard Mayo said something similar. And the fact that when he's been asked, do you
00:13:51 think you have the kind of team that can support a young quarterback? He sincerely was surprised.
00:13:55 And he's like, I don't know where that's coming from. We have professionals at all these positions.
00:13:59 We've brought people in and I'm kind of, I'm drinking the lemonade there, the tea or whatever,
00:14:03 what have you, whatever your summer beverage of choice, just because they do have a lot of
00:14:08 professionals. Like again, last season, I think we forget just how bad things were,
00:14:12 where there were so many opportunities to win games or be more competitive in games,
00:14:16 or just turnovers and God awful plays where you're looking just like, this is, this is really a mess.
00:14:21 Like we're seeing the worst version of this team that we couldn't have even really imagined.
00:14:24 And when someone like Jacoby, who I think is still honestly,
00:14:27 up half of the quarterbacks in the NFL, I don't really think that's so much of a stretch. He's
00:14:32 been in so many situations where he's never had to be the guy usually, you know, he's behind Brady.
00:14:37 Then once he's a free agent or when he gets traded, he's playing behind guys who are supposed
00:14:40 to be starting at some point. He's never really been signed to be the guy, but this is a situation
00:14:45 where if they, you know, start playing above expectation, if they really are in every game,
00:14:50 why would you want to pull Jacoby? Yeah, exactly. Pull these guys.
00:14:56 Let me also, let me also bring up the point too. And I've talked to people around the league and
00:14:59 I think we may have even had this discussion down in Foxborough during a quiet moment or two.
00:15:03 Jacoby Brissett is the perfect man for this moment. He really, really, I cannot overstate that
00:15:10 if you need a bridge guy, a veteran, cost-effective, well-respected, great locker room,
00:15:17 you know, to use the draft lingo, he literally checks every single box that you're looking for
00:15:22 in this scenario. The biggest thing is too, and I don't know if people really could understand
00:15:27 what I'm saying and what it all means, but when you heard, when we were sitting there talking with
00:15:33 him in the press conference a couple of weeks ago, I think other guys who were in that situation
00:15:39 would have been tripped up by that conversation, that level of conversation. I think it was Doug
00:15:42 Kite who talked about how do you make this not awkward in that quarterback room? And he said,
00:15:48 look, I have no ego in this thing. I'm just, you know, I did the best thing I can do is, you know,
00:15:53 we all want to compete. We all want to start. I understand that. So many other people would
00:15:57 have been tripped up in that situation. The way he handled it was absolute perfection. Again,
00:16:03 this is a guy, he's not going to make the Pro Bowl and there are going to be people who,
00:16:08 by the end of September, are going to be calling for him to be tossed out and let's play the kid
00:16:13 and let's see what the kid has. But he is the absolute perfect guy for this situation in this
00:16:19 moment for this franchise. - And I think too, I'll add before we move on, Taylor, just what we talked
00:16:24 about earlier again, where he also knows the offense. He worked with Alex Van Pelt, or he
00:16:29 knows at least, you know, sort of what they want to do. So like, you know, during practice when
00:16:35 he's not only helping Drake May move it along, he can effectively run it on his own while Alex
00:16:40 Van Pelt is in helping Drake May. So Van Pelt doesn't have to help Bursette and then somebody
00:16:46 else is in May's area, yada, yada, yada. Like it really is, like you said, Chris, he is the perfect
00:16:50 guy for it. I feel like he just gets it. He knows what he's here for. So that ego, it really doesn't
00:16:57 or shouldn't even exist. - Yeah. And some of the, like, this is a new offense and there is so much
00:17:02 change. Like, you know, there is the optimist in me, but there's also the realist who's saying,
00:17:06 we don't know what this is going to look like. But best case scenario, you'd like to have a
00:17:10 quarterback who, like you said, Mike, knows how to run everything. Obviously you need to see what
00:17:14 pieces fit where, and that's what the beginning of the year is. That's why we always see the Patriots
00:17:18 like under Bill, the schedule at the first month of the season was always kind of easy because you
00:17:23 understood they were going to be figuring things out. You know, I think, I don't know if he said
00:17:26 it in as many words, but we all knew it was basically like an extended preseason that first
00:17:30 month of the season where it's like, all right, this guy's going to be in a position where he's
00:17:33 probably not going to play, but we want to see if he can. And then once you get your identity,
00:17:37 then things start to roll with guy like Jacoby. It's just one less thing you have to worry about
00:17:41 in terms of continuity and trying to get everybody on the same page. We got a lot more to talk about,
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00:18:51 - All right, let's get into some old line talk because obviously the situation with
00:18:59 Cole Strange not looking great. We saw the report that he's not going to be back until
00:19:03 maybe the beginning of the season, maybe even later than that, which isn't a huge surprise
00:19:07 considering we haven't really gotten any positive updates. So when that dropped, it was like, okay.
00:19:11 And then even the signs that we saw when it came to that first OTA practice where City
00:19:15 Soza left guard here thinking, that's a guy who was on the right side. So what does that mean?
00:19:20 So leading into the question, if City So does start the season at left guard for Strange,
00:19:24 how difficult will it be to insert Strange back into the lineup when he is ready?
00:19:28 Chris, I'll go with you first.
00:19:29 - I think it's going to be a challenge. I think it's going to be a challenge whoever is at that
00:19:33 left guard spot. They need to be able to develop consistency and continuity along that offensive
00:19:39 line. Something they never had last year, particularly along the left side. They need
00:19:45 him back in the lineup relatively quickly. There are some guys out there who you can still,
00:19:54 at least theoretically, go get. If they hit, let's say August 15th and Cole Strange is still
00:19:59 nowhere to be seen, you can still go out and get a guy on relatively short money like Dalton Rizner.
00:20:04 You think about him, there's some plug and play guys, some veterans out there who are still
00:20:09 available. So I think that that really should be a possibility at this point. But ultimately,
00:20:14 like I said before, the biggest key there, you need to develop some consistency, continuity with
00:20:19 that group. You need to be able to find someone that you can count on for 70 snaps a game,
00:20:25 particularly if you're thinking about, and look, we just talked about the idea that you need Jacoby
00:20:30 Brissett back there, or you're going to have Jacoby Brissett back there to start the season.
00:20:33 I think that also kind of maybe plays a part in all of this as well. You want to be able to
00:20:40 do your best to set your young quarterback up for success. They did a lousy job of that
00:20:44 the last couple of years. They need to be able to find five guys who do the best job working
00:20:50 together. And whether that's Cole Strange, whether that's Dalton Rizner, whether that's someone else,
00:20:55 they need to be able to find someone to plug in there at left guard if Strange isn't ready to go.
00:21:00 - And I just looked it up and I noted it last season after the year concluded. The Patriots
00:21:06 started 10 offensive line combinations over 17 games. The most common was five times with McDermott,
00:21:12 Strange, Andrews, Sidiso, and Mike Onwenu. So look, that can't happen again. And 10 is nine
00:21:20 too many realistically. And I always go back to the last team, the Patriots had the one, the Super
00:21:28 Bowl in 2019, and they sort of reestablished and really sort of honed in on their run game towards
00:21:33 the end of the year, working into the playoffs. And the most important part of that team really
00:21:39 was the consistency they had along the offensive line. I guess I agree with you, Chris, that it
00:21:45 will be a challenge. The one thing I'll add is just that, and Gerard Mayo mentioned it,
00:21:50 like Cole Strange is in the building every day. So he is working towards it. He is probably,
00:21:55 you know, as much as he can't do physically, he should hopefully at least be ready mentally to
00:22:01 be able to step on the field and understand the scheme they're going to run. And I think that his
00:22:05 skill set sort of meshes with what Van Pelt might want to do as far as, you know, outside zone goes
00:22:11 and things like that. So now physically we'll have to see. But I think that I guess is a positive way
00:22:17 to look at. - The other thing too here, and I could jump in real quick, we know that it cannot be any
00:22:22 worse than it was last year, up and down the offensive line. Literally, if we set that as the
00:22:27 bar or the floor, that they can only get better because look, covering the team for 19 seasons,
00:22:34 I'd never seen an offensive line in that sort of state of disrepair. Just mentally, physically,
00:22:41 all of that. And for a franchise that relied on Dante Scarnacchia so heavily for such an extended
00:22:47 period of time to be able to go into, you know, what's the fifth season now with five different
00:22:51 offensive line coaches. We talk about consistency, we talk about continuity, it extends to the
00:22:56 coaching staff. And so to be able to get a system in place, to be able to get not even, you know,
00:23:01 the five same offensive line, but an offensive line coach who's coming back for a second year,
00:23:07 a second consecutive season, that all goes into it, man. And it's just, it's remarkable to see
00:23:12 what's happened to this franchise, particularly along the offensive line. And again, I think it
00:23:16 all kind of goes back to the quarterback as well. We can talk about him within the context of this
00:23:20 conversation, but it starts with the offensive line. A great offensive line makes a bad quarterback
00:23:26 good and a good quarterback great. And I think they could do their young quarterback a great
00:23:30 service year by improving whatever they can improve on, you know, up front, whatever position
00:23:36 you're talking about. - Yeah, and if we want to look back at last season, like look at the depth
00:23:40 chart, there wasn't a lot of veteran help on the inside. And that seemed like that was really what
00:23:45 hurt them. They had to rely on these mid-round picks. And then you had City, who obviously was
00:23:49 the best of the bunch. He spent the entire summer at tackle. And I talked to him at the end of the
00:23:53 season about how he felt he did as a rookie. He's like, yeah, considering I didn't play guard until
00:23:57 week one. And he didn't say this, but they threw him into the fire against the Eagles. He's like,
00:24:02 yeah, I think I did pretty well. And I think like Jalen Carter, like half of his stats last season
00:24:06 came in the first game of the week because it was just an interior offensive line where it's
00:24:10 Mothy and City and guys that just really were not in a position to be handling the level of talent
00:24:14 they were. - That offensive line, remind you, and I'm going to pat myself on the back here,
00:24:18 that offensive line, that included Calvin Anderson, who was out for a month and a half
00:24:24 with coming off malaria, that he was a tackle in that game. You go back and you watch that game
00:24:30 and you say, how did they do that against the best pass rush on the planet? And it's just, yeah,
00:24:35 it looked like I said, I had someone else tell me too, we talked about the offensive line and the
00:24:39 offensive line coaches. I had someone tell me that James Ferencz was fundamentally the offensive line
00:24:44 coach in that group by the end of the season. So in, look, it was just, it was a bad way all around
00:24:50 for that group the last year, man. It really, really, I cannot, we talked about overstating,
00:24:55 you can't overstate that enough with that group. - Outstanding story on Calvin Anderson, by the way,
00:25:00 Chris. - Thank you. - And if anyone hasn't read it, anyone listening, have to read it. - Thank you,
00:25:03 I appreciate that. Thank you guys. Thank you. That was a hell of a story. It's a fun story to do.
00:25:06 I was just giving a gift and I just had to be able to kind of execute it. So, but yeah,
00:25:11 but it just, it talked, you know, you can go back, it's Calvin Anderson, it's Cole Strange,
00:25:16 it's the offensive line coach getting sick. It's just an absolutely apocalyptic run of poor health
00:25:23 for the offensive line. And that kind of fed into it. There was also inconsistent play and look,
00:25:27 Trent Brown was up and down over the course of the year. I just, again, the bottom line is it
00:25:34 can't get any worse than it was last year. - And you mentioned the coaching. I really do
00:25:38 think Scott Peters and Robert Kugler, I'm really excited about that coaching group. Now, Scott
00:25:44 Peters, one, just if you want to talk about where he's coming from and working with Bill Callahan,
00:25:49 like that's huge. And I really think that can't be overstated. That's one of the few people you can
00:25:54 talk of in the same vein as someone like a Scar, where they're so experienced and have so much of
00:25:59 a history of working with people. And Peters is someone who played the position, who understands
00:26:03 the technique side. And people have mentioned that he doesn't really teach the same way that
00:26:06 others do. And obviously teaching was a big part of when they were building this coaching staff,
00:26:10 what they wanted. So one, when it starts at the top, you feel a lot better about Scott Peters.
00:26:16 And just to bring it back to Cole Strange, if we're talking about consistency,
00:26:20 I love Cole Strange. I like to try to find the positive if there is one while acknowledging
00:26:26 the tough parts. And Cole Strange's situation is one I don't love because he's already so behind
00:26:32 in his career. It's kind of like Thornton where he's just missed so much time. There are things
00:26:37 where like, I know he put on weight to handle bull rushes, but it's like, yeah, you can't
00:26:41 simulate those things. There's so much that he just hasn't gotten a rep as much as you'd hope
00:26:45 for a third year player. And if he's not going to be back until mid season, I think the hope should
00:26:50 be that Leighton Robinson steps up or Nick Leverett, who did do a really good job on a Buccaneers
00:26:55 offense that was pretty darn good under Tom Brady. He has experienced Mike Jordan. He's been a bit of
00:27:00 a disappointment considering what he was coming out of Ohio State, but he's been in the league.
00:27:04 At the very least, he gives you a guy who's a good run blocker who you try to protect
00:27:08 if he does have to play. And then again, Leighton Robinson gives you that depth where
00:27:12 he's probably going to be a starter at some point. So it's a good battle between him and
00:27:16 Leverett, I feel like, for really one of those guard spots across from City. So,
00:27:20 but I think you want continuity. You want it to be those guys because if Cole comes in,
00:27:24 how long did it take for him to get his feet under him last season? Because he hasn't missed
00:27:27 so much time. If this is a guy that doesn't come back until late November, are you really saying
00:27:32 we have to get him back in the lineup? I mean, if things are clicking, not really, unless you're
00:27:36 desperate. I love Cole Strange. I love the athlete, the player, how well he's done late
00:27:41 in seasons, how hard he works. He's an easy guy to root for, but this is a business. And the reality
00:27:46 of it is he's so far behind and has had two significant injuries. I'm just not sure how we
00:27:51 can realistically sit here and say he's in their long-term plans because they just drafted a guard
00:27:56 in the fourth round. That's telling that they think that there has to be some kind of shakeup
00:28:00 inside. Yeah. Two things real quick. You guys have connected, you guys have met Cole Strange,
00:28:04 you guys have talked with Cole Strange before. I do, I kind of take off my sports writer hat and
00:28:09 put on my human being hat. I feel lousy for him because he's such a really decent guy and he's
00:28:15 worked really hard to get to where he is. But the combination of being drafted where he was,
00:28:22 and he's kind of labeled as a guy who was overdrafted, it makes me feel bad for him.
00:28:27 And then the other thing too, and Brady used to use this phrase all the time, and I think
00:28:31 Bill has used it as well. This time of year, man, train's leaving the station. And it's not necessarily
00:28:36 a fault as a player, but if you're not ready to go, you're going to be left behind. The game moves
00:28:42 forward for you whether or not, the game moves forward whether or not you're ready to go. And
00:28:47 if you're not ready to go, you run the risk of falling behind. And Taylor, to your point,
00:28:51 he's missed a lot of time. And if he's not going to be back in the lineup by November,
00:28:55 you have to start thinking about contingency plans for that position moving forward.
00:28:59 - Yep. Anything else before we move on? - No, it's the same thing sort of we talked
00:29:04 about earlier with the wide receivers where it's like, okay, is Ty Cohen Thornton really in your
00:29:09 plans? Is Judah Smitshusa really in your plans? You have to look at everything and it doesn't,
00:29:14 it almost shouldn't and doesn't matter that he was the 29th overall pick. And you mentioned that
00:29:19 that's kind of a burden that's been placed on him. That's no fault of his own, but that's the
00:29:22 reality of the situation. And so you kind of have to, again, assess the situation. And I like the
00:29:29 phrasing as far as, "Trains leaving the station. If you can't get on, sorry. Next man up type
00:29:33 mentality." - Yeah.
00:29:34 - At this point, I feel like the best case scenario, and we kind of talked about this
00:29:38 last season. I know Mike, we spitballed about it, but Cole Strange playing center and being the guy
00:29:43 who takes over for David Andrews, giving him a role where he doesn't have to come back quickly,
00:29:48 where he can truly get healthy. And obviously the on-field reps are valuable, but still not
00:29:53 really being in a position where so much is expected of him to get back quickly. I think
00:29:57 maybe being that guy who takes over for David Andrews, where some of his deficiencies can be
00:30:02 covered up. And then the athleticism, if you're an athletic guard, that's awesome. If you're an
00:30:05 athletic center, that changes a run scheme, especially in this van Pelt offense, where
00:30:09 those inside guys pull so much. I would love to just see, maybe he does get to really rest the
00:30:15 rest of this season and then come back and maybe just start to cross train a little bit more. But
00:30:19 unfortunate situation. We obviously wish Cole Strange the best, but train's leaving the station.
00:30:23 We will leave it at that. All right. This is a fun one. "In your estimation, what's going to be the
00:30:28 fiercest competition at Pat's training camp?" Mike, we haven't started with you yet, unless
00:30:32 you're thinking Cap is still on. - No, I think I saw this question
00:30:36 before we came on and I think I'm going to go with wide receiver. Just, it seems like a lot,
00:30:43 there's frankly, there's too many guys for the room and there's a lot of guys who I can't figure
00:30:48 out quite yet who is not going to make the team and who's going to play where, because you have
00:30:52 two wide receivers in Jalen Polk and Javon Baker, who should or will be locks for the roster and
00:30:57 guys who you want to get playing time rather quickly, if they're going to be difference
00:31:02 makers this year and going into next season. Obviously KJ Osborne signed on a one-year deal.
00:31:07 So he could be expendable because he's not going to cost you much later on. But at the
00:31:12 same time, he's someone who you went out and acquired with a plan in mind. So there's him,
00:31:20 there's Kendrick Bourne who's coming off the injury. And then you look at Juju Smith-Schuster,
00:31:25 who still has two years left on his deal as of right now, could potentially be a trade candidate.
00:31:29 Where is he? He says he's a hundred percent. Are you laughing at trade candidate?
00:31:33 - No, the contract still. - Oh yeah.
00:31:35 - It's like I'm hearing it for the first time. Oh my God.
00:31:38 - It's wild. It was a lot of money. And at the time we'll play a little revisionist history
00:31:45 right here, but like, I liked it better than Jagoe Myers. And I was on the complete wrong
00:31:49 side of that, clearly. Just look at the trajectory of those two guys. And so fierce might be a stretch
00:31:55 for this competition. Cause it's a lot of question marks and there's, you still don't really have that
00:31:59 true number one, but in type one Thornton too, where, who I just kind of looped in with the
00:32:04 Cole Strange stuff where he's going into his third season, hasn't played much, hasn't really got,
00:32:09 you know, his foot in the door in the room. But you mentioned Taylor that he was sort of taking
00:32:14 those number one X reps early last week. So where do they think he fits in? Does he make the team?
00:32:20 And does he sort of make the most of his next couple of seasons on the Patriots? So
00:32:24 again, not necessarily fierce, but I'll be very curious to see how the room shakes out.
00:32:29 - Fiercest. So, you know, it's all relative. - Yeah, exactly.
00:32:32 - What do you think, Chris? - I, look, I'm going to echo what Mike said,
00:32:36 and I'm going to bring up two names. He brought up a bunch of names where you go, oh yeah,
00:32:40 that guy's on the roster. Jalen Rager, who I think is relatively, I don't want to say relatively safe,
00:32:47 but you know, type one Thornton, KJ Osborne, Pop Douglas. I think when you mentioned the three
00:32:54 youngsters, you start with the two draft picks and you bring up Pop Douglas. I think those three guys
00:33:00 are relatively safe right now. You would think that they're relatively safe on the roster.
00:33:05 But I think Rager, his special teams value, as we saw at the end of the year last year,
00:33:10 gives him maybe a little bit of a leg up. I think some of it depends on how fast Kendrick
00:33:15 Bourne comes back. If he is able to go relatively quickly, October, November,
00:33:23 that changes maybe how you look at a KJ Osborne type. And so there are really some fascinating
00:33:31 battles when you look at the back end of that roster. And I think there's some positional
00:33:34 versatility. And I think it's by design that you have some Kendrick Bourne insurance built in there
00:33:39 with a guy like Osborne. If Kendrick, his knee is giving him problems, maybe you hang on Osborne a
00:33:45 little bit longer. But there are guys, and this is a phrase I use going back maybe 10 or so years,
00:33:50 when you look at older guy, when you looked at Chad Jackson, when you looked at Aaron Dobson,
00:33:57 there are guys who need to display a sense of urgency at this point in their careers.
00:34:02 They cannot afford to kick back and coast through spring sessions and coast through training camp
00:34:08 and hope to land a roster spot. Taequann Thornton, just looking at the numbers, is one of those guys.
00:34:13 If I was Taequann Thornton, I would feel a lot better if I brought some special teams value to
00:34:17 the table. But he's part of that conversation. The back end of that depth chart, when you look
00:34:22 at the wide receivers that they have, they're going to be some guys who are going to be out
00:34:27 of a job come Labor Day weekend or are going to be elsewhere come Labor Day weekend. And they have an
00:34:33 opportunity now with Bourne being out, there's going to be some more targets. And if you can
00:34:38 display a nice consistency with one of the quarterbacks, all four of the quarterbacks,
00:34:42 then I think that's going to help your cause. And also too, like I said,
00:34:46 look, man, I don't want to say if you're Taequann Thornton, you go out and you volunteer to take
00:34:50 punts, but it would help your cause. I don't think the body type is going to lend itself to being a
00:34:58 returner, but hey, who knows? You sidle on up to the special teams coach and say, let me take some
00:35:03 reps back there. Let me see what I could do. The more you can do, the more you can do for us,
00:35:08 I think it's absolutely vital. But ultimately, I'll echo Mike's point, wide receiver for me is
00:35:13 going to be the back end specific back into that depth chart is going to be really the most
00:35:18 intriguing positional battle that and probably left tackle, at least as we sit here right now.
00:35:22 But you have kind of an idea as to who might be at the left tackle spot. So, but yeah, wide
00:35:26 receiver for me all the way. - And to your point with the special
00:35:29 team's value, there was a picture from practice where Taequann was getting coached up by Brendan
00:35:33 Schooler. I'm assuming that didn't have anything to do with offense. So most likely was.
00:35:37 - But look, man, if I'm Taequann Thornton, I'm volunteering for that.
00:35:41 Teach me how to be a gunner. Let me use that speed in every way that I can. That's my most
00:35:48 marketable asset. I'm still one of the fastest guys in the roster. Put me out there. Let me do
00:35:53 something to show you guys that I'm worthy of a roster spot.
00:35:57 - And to Taequann's credit, I will say, he's more physical than you would think just looking at him.
00:36:02 I remember when he got drafted, they were using him in that Edelman, Jacoby Myers, like zero
00:36:06 and asking him to work at the point of attack. And he wasn't great at it or anything, but the
00:36:11 effort was there. And half the time, that's like half the battle. If you're not really trying,
00:36:14 but you're a good blocker just physically, then those things are going to weigh each other out.
00:36:18 But if you're really going hard, then it helps you out a little bit more. So you do hope, one,
00:36:22 he can show some versatility. I think the team is going to be begging him, "Please, Taequann,
00:36:26 we want to keep you around. You are the fastest person on this team." I still think, like looking
00:36:31 at his college tape, this is not some guy who was bad in college. Like his quarterback wasn't
00:36:36 very good. There were so many times where he can't air the ball out far enough and Taequann's
00:36:40 like burn the coverage and he has to come back and make a catch through traffic. He's not a bad
00:36:44 player. He's just missed so much time. I don't think the coaching was up to stuff. As we saw,
00:36:48 where everyone respects Troy Brown, he was demoted for a reason. I think they wanted to see better in
00:36:53 terms of technique. And we've seen in the past two years, the route running hasn't been good from
00:36:56 anybody. And then you ask Taequann, "What's going on with the routes? The timing seems off." And
00:37:00 he's saying that, "Yeah, I have freedom to ad-lib." And it's like, "Whoa, dude, no offense.
00:37:04 You haven't been on the field for 200 snaps in your career. Why in the world are you getting
00:37:08 the ad-lib?" It doesn't help him. So hopefully with Taequann Underwood, a guy who has experience
00:37:14 not only playing the position, but also coaching it hands-on, we hope it gets better there. And
00:37:18 then Tyler Hughes, going to be an interesting one. But I'll go outside of receiver. I'll go
00:37:23 with the defensive side and cornerback. Now, again, fiercest, it's all relative,
00:37:28 but I think you have Christian Gonzalez. He's solidified. Jonathan Jones, he's solidified.
00:37:32 But then who steps up? I think that affects who plays opposite Christian Gonzalez, who's in the
00:37:37 slot. Because if Marcus Jones can stay healthy and rebound, because he was rough last summer,
00:37:42 then maybe you're saying, "Okay, now this is the kind of group that we envisioned in our head.
00:37:46 This works out." Because Marcus Jones, obviously great athlete, got good ball skills. That game he
00:37:52 had as a rookie against Devontae Adams. So you get to see, this is a guy who, if he was a couple
00:37:56 inches taller, he would have been an early round pick. He's super talented. He's just small.
00:38:00 But if he can't stay healthy, which frankly I see as more of a bonus, I don't really see him
00:38:05 as someone you consider to be in the long-term plans, because he's been un-preserved to end the
00:38:09 past two seasons. Is it going to be Alex Dawson on the outside? Marco Wilson, who's a veteran,
00:38:14 but he showed a little something-something at the end of last season when he played against the Jets.
00:38:18 Isaiah Bolden has all the talent in the world. Versatility from his time at Jackson State has
00:38:23 return value like he brings a lot. Maybe that affects another position wide receiver, where
00:38:27 if Bolden is this all-world kick returner that we were sold for him to be, then maybe is that,
00:38:32 "Sorry, Jalen Rager, you're not as valuable." How does that affect everything else? So I think the
00:38:37 corner position is going to be very interesting to watch because, while I wouldn't be upset if
00:38:41 they went and called Stephon Gilmore at the end of the summer and said, "Hey, we don't love the
00:38:45 depth right now. We tried it out. We want to get somebody who we know we're going to get out of
00:38:48 him." Also, I don't even bring up Marcella Stile in this. Obviously, seventh round pick, probably
00:38:53 going to start as a special teamer, but he's super talented and has versatility as well. So
00:38:57 I like that they have the youth, the athleticism, and the talent that they have there. How it works
00:39:02 out, we'll see. But I do think that's going to be a pretty intense battle just to see who rises to
00:39:06 the top in that group. My podcast partner, Chris Hogan, and I are trying to speak Stephon Gilmore's
00:39:11 return into existence on a weekly basis. It would bring some level of stability to a room that
00:39:19 didn't have a lot of stability toward the end of the year last year. Let me throw another name at
00:39:23 you too, JC Jackson. He's staying in the area. He is a guy who has had his off-field struggles
00:39:30 before. Let's just put it that way. But he is still interested in returning. He likes Gerard
00:39:36 Mayo. He knows the locker room. He knows the guys. I'm not saying it would be a perfect fit,
00:39:42 but he is still out there as a possibility if you need an added layer for this team moving forward.
00:39:49 Gerard Mayo did mention, I think it was during the combine, where he explicitly mentioned JC
00:39:56 and said that he would be open to the return. Now, we've seen with players who did have some
00:40:01 off-field struggles like Trent Brown, we saw they were like, "Nope, we're going to move on." They
00:40:05 didn't really, they weren't loud about it, but it kind of got obvious as things went on, obviously,
00:40:08 once these players signed elsewhere. Like with Mack Jones, where it's like, we kind of want to
00:40:12 wash our hands of some of the players where it just got a little murky towards the end. With JC,
00:40:17 if the door is open, he's going to be two years removed from the ACL. It's kind of similar to
00:40:22 what we talked about earlier, where kind of like Juju, where now that you have the time and you're
00:40:26 fully healed, is that explosiveness back. We know how well he worked in this system, and now he
00:40:31 doesn't have to be the guy. Like even in his last season with the Pats, you saw when he went up
00:40:35 against Stefan Diggs, when he got that contract, I was like, "I don't know if you saw the Bills
00:40:39 games," where he's a really good corner, but he's more matchup specific. But now, and that was the
00:40:44 play they mentioned last year, where they wanted to bring JC back before Gonzo got hurt to kind of
00:40:48 reunite that gang. That could be a really interesting group. So I liked that you brought up
00:40:51 JC because he isn't talked about a lot. And frankly, I didn't know what the situation was
00:40:55 either, so I didn't really want to bring it up. But from Gerard Mayo, if he's open to it and JC
00:40:59 is as well, that's another guy they could definitely add. All right, we got some more
00:41:02 questions for you, but quick word from our friends at Game Time. Be right back.
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00:42:29 All right, so we touched on the secondary. I want to get a little deeper into that and get
00:42:35 your guys' perspective. So you think this new regime can develop the secondary, specifically
00:42:40 the cornerbacks, as well as the old regime did? I'm going to start with you. Bryce,
00:42:44 you want to go first? Sure, sure. Look, I have all sorts of questions about the state of this team
00:42:50 going into 2024, 2025, and beyond on the offensive side of the ball. I have no questions about what
00:42:55 they're going to be able to do on defense. And that comes to not just their across-the-board
00:43:01 performance this year, but their ability to develop defensive talent moving forward.
00:43:05 I feel very confident, if I'm a Patriots fan, in this group, in their ability to develop guys. And
00:43:12 I think that we're going to see that this year. I think we're going to see guys continue to,
00:43:17 guys who are younger, continue to make appreciable leaps. We all know Barmore is an incredible town.
00:43:24 I think Duggar is going to continue to ascend. But you're also going to see guys like Roberts.
00:43:29 You're going to see younger guys. You're going to see Keon White. We should be talking about
00:43:33 Keon White more as a rising star. I think that, look, across the board,
00:43:38 this team is set up very nicely defensively. Look, they need to address some sneaky needs,
00:43:45 particularly in secondary, center field, moving forward. I think Jabril Peppers is good, but I
00:43:51 think that you don't want to... You want to get out on Jabril Peppers a year too early as opposed
00:43:56 to a year too late, basically. But yeah, ultimately, to answer the question, I think that this
00:44:01 group of coaches will be able to develop talent across the board on defense, particularly in the
00:44:06 secondary. - And they retained the most important asset as far as developing secondary players goes
00:44:11 in Mike Pellegrino and Brian Belichick, the guys who have been there for the last couple seasons.
00:44:15 So I think the one question mark in the cornerback room is experience because, again,
00:44:21 Christian Gonzalez was great and I am number one. And you mentioned, Chris, taking off your
00:44:27 reporter hat and putting on the fan hat. I'm number one in the Christian Gonzalez fan club,
00:44:31 but the reality of the situation is he only played three and a half games and they were great, but
00:44:37 where does that land and where does that get you next season? And so I think that they will be able
00:44:43 to get it done and they do have the necessary pieces in place with those coaches. It's all a
00:44:49 matter of it actually all coming together. But you're right. I mean, there's not really many
00:44:53 question marks on the defense, if at all. It's that secondary. And I think the guys who are in
00:44:58 place are just fine to do so. - Yeah. We don't really talk about the
00:45:01 defense and that's why it's kind of mostly business as usual for that group. And that's the big thing
00:45:06 for me is, I've had some conversations about whether they're going to take a drop off,
00:45:11 obviously without Bill Belichick. I think Bill gives you an edge because obviously he's a walking
00:45:16 encyclopedia, the innovation that you see, his willingness to adapt his defensive scheme. I think
00:45:20 those are the things that really have always elevated these Patriots teams. But at the same
00:45:24 time with someone like a Gerard Mayo, who the head coach is not the same as being a defensive
00:45:28 coordinator, but even Demarcus Covington, these are guys who have been in the room for these game
00:45:33 plans, who understand what the thinking has been, have some of their own ideas, I'm sure. So with
00:45:38 the continuity they have on the staff and with the players, I really see this being like what I
00:45:42 believe it was Juwan Bentley said, where it's an evolution. It's not really the same or necessarily
00:45:47 different. It's just, they're taking another step because there's so many guys who know how to play
00:45:51 off of each other already. And they've also brought in a lot of complimentary pieces like a
00:45:55 Sione Takitaki where, I mean, honestly, he and Jelani Tabai, you can kind of slide those guys in
00:45:59 and out in terms of the versatility, their play style, very similar guys there. And when it comes
00:46:04 to the secondary, Mike, like you said, Pellegrino, I think is one of the most underrated position
00:46:08 coaches in football. What he's been able to do, like cornerback is never really a weakness for
00:46:13 the Patriots. At the very least, see like a Sean Wade or an Alex Saucing get thrown into the fire.
00:46:18 They don't give up big plays. They'll give you like an 18 yard curl and sure it's annoying,
00:46:23 but as long as you're not getting beat behind you, there's a lot worse things. And I think
00:46:26 Pellegrino does a great job of making sure they don't really miss a beat. And then obviously
00:46:30 you still have Brian Belichick in a group that he's already worked with. So there's going to be
00:46:34 still more continuity there. Maybe they know how that group works a little bit better with Marte
00:46:38 Mapu if he takes a step forward. And then in the defensive front, obviously no more DeMarcus
00:46:43 Covington. Then you hire Jerry Montgomery who actually Christian Barmore singing his praises.
00:46:48 He was already saying there's so much I'm learning from him and things he's teaching me. And
00:46:51 Montgomery was a very highly respected coach coming out of green Bay. I believe it was really
00:46:56 just a scheme thing where they wanted to move on, but he had survived multiple regime changes,
00:47:00 which is not easy. That's the kind of scar thing where he stayed despite there being several
00:47:04 different coaches that really tells you a lot about one, how integral someone is to an organization,
00:47:09 not just as a coach, but also as a personality. Obviously, Drew Wilkins is kind of a new guy,
00:47:13 but comes from a very aggressive defense has worked with wings and followed him to New York
00:47:18 after he's with the Ravens. So we know they're going to focus more on pass rush and getting
00:47:22 after the quarterback. So it's going to be interesting to see what he can kind of bring
00:47:26 to the table in terms of his different experiences. So yeah, with this defensive staff, I have a lot
00:47:30 of optimism that again, it's just going to be taking a step forward. Not so much at all.
00:47:34 They have to get worse because the players are still the same. You just lose that winning edge
00:47:38 that a hall of fame coach like Bill Belichick gives you. I'm curious to get both the take from
00:47:43 both you guys on this. Marcus Jones kind of hinted at it in Christian Barmore kind of hinted at it as
00:47:48 well. When we talked to them last week about, Hey, the defense is going to be a little different this
00:47:52 year. The defensive philosophy is a little different. DeMarcus Covington kind of hinted
00:47:56 it, you know, more aggressiveness, taking the ball away, you know, maybe scoring more touchdowns,
00:48:02 whatever the case may be. What do you guys think? How is that going to manifest itself
00:48:07 in the overall defensive scheme? I don't know. I can see them and I can hear them talk about it,
00:48:13 but I don't know necessarily how that would be different than the overall approach that they've
00:48:17 used the last handful of years. So I will say this one thing that Barmore mentioned was using
00:48:23 more four man fronts. And when he said it, it sounded like he didn't mean to let as much as he
00:48:27 did let slip because what you usually see is these five man fronts from the Patriots, where you have
00:48:33 your big defensive tackle types, then you have your two outside linebackers. But what generally
00:48:37 happens with those looks is you end up with someone like a Christian Barmore, like a Lawrence guy,
00:48:42 rushing off the edge. And obviously Christian Barmore can rush from anywhere, but it's not
00:48:46 ideal to have him in that kind of position. You'd rather he did say he wanted to do a little bit
00:48:50 more. You, I think you asked him about that too. He's like, Hey, I'll play whatever. And obviously
00:48:57 he can make that work, but you'd rather be like a Jude on a Keon white and Uche where they really
00:49:02 are those edge rushers. So I think the four man fronts, that's where you have the two inside guys
00:49:06 where it can be Barmore at quality, whoever you want in there, but then that's where your outside
00:49:11 linebackers can really thrive. And we know Uche said this scheme fits him better. He's not really
00:49:16 a great three, four outside linebacker because he's being asked to drop into coverage, play the
00:49:20 run, all that kind of stuff. Whereas if he's playing more of a four man front, I think he
00:49:24 can really pin his ears back and get after the passer. Obviously situation plays into that as
00:49:28 well. And when it comes to taking the ball away, I wonder if that is maybe they're repping more
00:49:33 drills where you're really attacking the football, because sometimes I felt like that wasn't as
00:49:37 present as I'd liked it to be last season or maybe more zone coverage, because I think they always
00:49:42 want to be a man team. I think when it's like third down obvious pass, they want to go man
00:49:46 to man that's the bread and butter. But if you play more zone, it gives you more opportunities
00:49:50 to look at the quarterback and make place on the ball. Cause when your back is to the quarterback,
00:49:54 unless you're Stefan Gilmore, it's really hard to get interceptions that way. So I'll be
00:49:58 interested to see if it's just a teaching thing or more of a scheme related in terms of the
00:50:02 takeaways. But when it comes to the pass rush, I do think maybe the four man fronts are going to
00:50:06 have something to do with it. Maybe more blitzes. I do think this is an aggressive defense already.
00:50:11 Like they love the SIM pressures and the creepers and all that, you know, fancy football jargon for
00:50:15 just different ways to simulate pressure. And you see when they have a lot of chemistry in the
00:50:19 defense, that's where they start getting really blitz heavy. Like back in 2022, when it was all
00:50:24 undersized corners and a lot of young guys like Jack and Marcus Jones, they were playing a lot
00:50:28 more zone, not a lot of really exotic stuff in terms of their pressure packages. But then week
00:50:33 one, what do we see now that they have gone zone and John Jones and they have more solidity in that
00:50:37 area. That's when you saw the use more cover zero, I think they did all of last season. So it'll be
00:50:42 interesting to see what exactly it means. But I think those four man fresh fronts might be kind
00:50:46 of a key to where they're headed. And Taylor hit the nail on the head. As far as the scheme stuff
00:50:49 goes, I'll just say like, maybe not personality wise, but play type wise guys like Jude on an
00:50:54 in a four man front where he can just pin his ears back and rush the passer and not have to worry
00:50:58 about all the other crap, frankly, that, you know, a guy who just gets to rush the passer does that
00:51:02 just, you know, naturally adds more aggression and even having to real peppers as your quote,
00:51:07 unquote, free safety. That guy's aggressive as hell. That guy doesn't want to just sit there
00:51:11 and play center field. So even though he'll play center field much more aggressively than some,
00:51:16 you know, somebody like a Devin McCordie would play. So they have the dudes. And I, you know,
00:51:21 we're going to have to wait and see on how it all plays out and does it go and, you know,
00:51:24 end up biting them in the ass if they're, if they're not just playing sound defense and they're
00:51:28 just trying to, you know, get interceptions and get sacks instead of actually get, you know,
00:51:31 three down stops. But I think they have the personnel to do so. All right. We'll close it
00:51:37 out with a fun little trade scenario. Devante Adams trade for a three year, $70 million,
00:51:43 56 fully guaranteed. And you get rid of choo-choo Taekwon and maybe KJ. So Devante and Kendrick
00:51:50 foreign can teach Hulk and Baker how to be them or better. This is a lofty one. So again,
00:51:56 this is all fun and games. I don't think we're going to take this one too, too seriously. I
00:52:00 don't think the Raiders have any interest in getting rid of Devante Adams, but if this were
00:52:04 on the table, would you be interested? Would you rather see the Patriots stick with what they have
00:52:08 right now? I, if that's on the table, I, yeah, at least I'm thinking about it, but I just,
00:52:15 I don't know how you would convince the Raiders to take, what is it? Choo-choo Taekwon and KJ.
00:52:20 So I just, that's a lot. I mean, you know, here you take all of our, you know, our second and
00:52:26 third starters and give us a number one starter. It's just, I don't. Madden trade. Yeah. I just,
00:52:32 I still think that there's the possibility, you know, and we could talk about this that,
00:52:37 Hey, maybe, you know, you circle back around on Tee Higgins or Brandon Iok, you know, before the
00:52:41 start of the season. And I know that they've made those moves, or at least the franchise has made
00:52:45 those moves in years past in August, you know, with an eye toward the, you know, the season,
00:52:51 but I, that one specifically, I don't think that there's, there's much of a possibility of something
00:52:56 like that happening. Yeah. The only, I was going to, I was going to turn it into that same answer,
00:53:01 Chris, where I, this ain't going to happen, but in another former fashion, I still think they
00:53:05 should absolutely be involved in trying to trade for that true number one, Roger Seaver. I think
00:53:09 that's that's really paramount in like developing this, you know, this young quarterback and Drake
00:53:15 may is yeah, you you've rebuilt the room so far, but you still don't have that proven guy yet.
00:53:20 The, the Steph, the Steph digs that was there for Josh Allen, the the Jamar, I guess Jamar Chase is
00:53:27 a bad example, but two against Tyree kill and Jalen hurts gets AJ Brown. Like, you know,
00:53:32 now I guess CJ Stroud gets the Steph digs again. So they've kind of used him twice in that role,
00:53:37 but you get the point. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So I do think that they should still be in that market
00:53:43 and it wouldn't shock me if they still pull the trigger on me, you know, one of those moves down
00:53:46 the line. Yeah. I think that's fair with Devante Adams, frankly, obviously he's an outstanding
00:53:51 player. He's also 31 years old. Yeah. I'm not really trying to give up any assets for a 31
00:53:56 year old receiver as a rebuilding team. Just doesn't sound like good business. And this is
00:54:00 a team that Ellie will again, sit on the K Adams show that they want to draft and develop. They
00:54:04 want that to be their identity. Now, if it's Brandon, I, who's like 25 years old and has no
00:54:09 significant injury history. Hell yeah. Pull the trigger. Like that's kind of a no brainer. If it's
00:54:13 on the table, even T Higgins is someone who I hesitate a little more because there has been an
00:54:17 injury history there, but I think the responsible thing is yeah. To listen, to see what potential
00:54:22 offers you can get. But I think if this year's experiment goes well, and these young guys do
00:54:26 show, they've got some promise. Then you're in a position where I think this year is a success.
00:54:31 If the next free agency, they can actually use the wealth of money they have and spend that on
00:54:36 guys who want to come here. Guys who similar to a CJ Stroud are like, you guys are building
00:54:41 something here. I like Drake may these young cats you got, they're pretty good. Let me be the guy
00:54:46 who pushes you over the hump. And now you're not just maybe a 2025 playoff contender. Now it's like,
00:54:52 wait, they are actually pretty loaded. If Drake may plays well, there's no reason to not talk
00:54:56 about them in the super bowl conversation. That's obviously a huge jump. That's all dependent on
00:55:00 them putting good film on this season. Or like Ellie Wolf said, you show the improvement and
00:55:05 the league is saying, Oh, Patriots might be back. I want to be part of that new winning culture with,
00:55:10 you know, I'm sure if things go well, Gerard Mayo and Ellie Wolf, everybody's going to be saying
00:55:14 such great things about them. And people are going to be a part of that fabric and kind of
00:55:18 bringing the Patriots back to relevance. You know, what's specific to the wide receiver position
00:55:22 guys. And I think there's, there's real value here. I think that they overpaid Kendrick Bourne
00:55:28 a little bit, but that says something about who you are as a franchise. When you get a well
00:55:34 respected guy like that. And we could talk about Jacoby Brissett in there as well. You could talk
00:55:39 about Matthew Judon guys, you know, even though Judon kind of semi jokingly goes out to recruit
00:55:44 guys on Twitter. If you are a young wide receiver and you have the opportunity to play with a guy
00:55:50 like Kendrick Bourne to learn from a guy like Kendrick Bourne, if you're a young offensive
00:55:54 skill position player who has the opportunity to work with someone like Jacoby Brissett,
00:55:59 these are well-respected guys around the league. That was one of the reasons why
00:56:02 on my list of guys who, you know, maybe the Patriots should look into signing.
00:56:06 That's one of the reasons I put Bobby Wagner out there. Bobby Wagner is not the Bobby Wagner of
00:56:10 five years ago, but Bobby Wagner is one of the most well-respected guys around the league.
00:56:14 You bring in a guy like that. It says something about your franchise and the kind of players
00:56:19 that you want to go after. And so specific to the wide receiver position, if you have,
00:56:25 you engender some goodwill this offseason and you clearly take steps in the right direction.
00:56:31 Sure, guys are going to want to come play here if they have the opportunity to catch passes from a
00:56:35 guy like Drake May, if Drake May has a really good year, but players talk to each other too.
00:56:40 And the opportunity to play with a guy like Kendrick Bourne means something to some of
00:56:46 these guys. The opportunity to play alongside a guy like Matthew Judon or some other well-respected
00:56:50 guys on this roster, David Andrews, if you're an offensive lineman, that means something.
00:56:55 There's real weight there. So it's not just about spending money for statistics sake.
00:57:01 It's about spending money to improve your overall standing in the eyes of some of these guys
00:57:07 who are free agents down the road. Great point. Great point. Mike,
00:57:11 you had anything to add before we get out of here?
00:57:13 No, I think that's a great point though. You have to, and it's similar to what the
00:57:17 Texans did last year. I'm just reiterating, kind of regurgitating what you just said though.
00:57:20 It might be far-fetched, but there's an opportunity to kind of get this thing going
00:57:25 in the right direction. You really have to hit it on the quarterback. And if they did,
00:57:28 then they can be this type of franchise in, I guess, a relatively short period of time.
00:57:33 Again, that's the ceiling. There's a floor, but it's something to look forward to right now and
00:57:37 something to kind of tout on May 28th as we look for something to talk about.
00:57:43 And then with a slight overplay, I'll just close with this. Mike, you and I talked about it in our
00:57:47 show for the OTA preview about, you know, Judon's probably going to be back, but what's it going to
00:57:51 take? It's kind of like Kyle Duggar for me, where if you have to overpay a little bit,
00:57:55 that's what all this money's for. If you draft well and you do retain guys, there's going to
00:57:59 be the Mike and Wenus and the Josh Uches and the Christian Barmore's where you're not paying as
00:58:03 much as anybody else is probably paying for someone of their caliber and their talent because
00:58:08 you're engendering so much goodwill. And these guys know, you know, one, if I really do play
00:58:12 well, they'll give me a bonus. I'll make a little bit extra money. And you saw that with Duggar,
00:58:16 people say, oh, they overpaid him. Okay. Where else was the money going? Even if you do get some
00:58:22 bonafide number one receiver, that's still money that you want to spend your award guys who are
00:58:27 setting a standard and showing what you want for a team. And I think with Judon, we're going to see
00:58:31 the same thing whenever it happens and he gets his extension, he's probably going to make more
00:58:34 than some people think he should, but it's really because this is someone that they value and they
00:58:38 want to make sure he's happy. If he wants to retire a Patriot and we know he's the vocal leader of that
00:58:43 defense. Yeah. You give him a little extra bump because he's so important to what you have in
00:58:47 the fabric of your organization. All right. I just want to make sure. All right. Awesome.
00:58:54 Chris, so much, buddy. Thank you so much for joining us. Please remind the people where they
00:59:00 can find you and what great stuff you got coming down the pipeline that we should be looking out
00:59:03 for. You can follow me on Twitter or X or whatever we're calling it these days. It's C Price Globe,
00:59:08 that's C Price Globe. You can read my stuff in the Boston Globe and bostonglobe.com. Got a couple
00:59:12 of good features coming down the pipe, including one on Alex Van Pelt, where I talked to some
00:59:17 people back in Buffalo and some people back in Pitt about him and his development and what the
00:59:22 Patriots can kind of expect from him. Patriots fans specifically can kind of expect from him.
00:59:27 And I'm starting probably a couple of days ago, I started what I think is a pretty deep dive on
00:59:32 Joe Milton and kind of the legend of Joe Milton going back to Tennessee and Olympia High back in
00:59:39 back in Florida, which it's been a lot of fun to do so far. And I think if I execute it well,
00:59:46 I think it's going to be a really good story. Oh, there's no doubt. I'm looking forward to that one.
00:59:50 Yes, sir. We're going to be on lookout. And also, once again, check out the Calvin Anderson story.
00:59:54 You did an amazing job. Really appreciate that, guys. Thank you. Make sure you guys
00:59:59 do out there. So once again, thank you so much for joining. But first of many,
01:00:02 we're going to make sure we have you on a lot this season. Thank you all as always for watching.
01:00:07 Now, take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. We will see you next time. Peace, y'all.