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SportsTranscript
00:00 ♪ ♪
00:03 What's going on, everyone?
00:20 Taylor Kyles here for CLNS Media
00:22 coming at you with another episode of "Pat's Daily,"
00:24 brought to you by our good friends at Price, Picks, and GameTime.
00:28 Got another mailbag episode for you,
00:30 and today we are joined by one of the friends of the podcast,
00:34 Doug Kide of "The Boston Herald."
00:36 Doug, how you doing, buddy? Welcome back to the show.
00:38 Doing all right.
00:40 It's very hot here in southeastern Massachusetts,
00:42 so I think we're all getting re-acclimated to that,
00:44 but otherwise, I'm doing just fine.
00:47 How are you guys doing?
00:48 The heat stinks. The heat stinks.
00:50 I'm with you. I got ACs on in this morning.
00:52 I woke up. I put them in.
00:53 I was sweating my butt off. It's tough.
00:56 It's good because, you know, you get into summer weather
00:59 and everything. It's fun.
01:00 Training camp is around the corner,
01:01 but the start of it's tough.
01:02 The adjustment from no ACs to ACs isn't a fun one,
01:05 but other than that, I'm good.
01:07 Yeah, before the show, Doug and I literally checked in
01:09 with each other like, "Can you hear my fan?
01:11 I can't hear yours." Like, "Oh, we're good?"
01:13 I didn't do that, and I have an AC behind me.
01:14 Am I good? Am I fine?
01:15 You're good.
01:16 Let us know in the comments if you can hear anything
01:18 because we're pretty good on our end, but we shall see.
01:21 We might have a slight hum, but I think we're good.
01:23 We're good. People are understanding of it.
01:25 Content will be louder, and the info will be louder
01:28 than whatever we're doing to keep ourselves
01:30 from sweating over here.
01:31 All right, fellas, before we get into the mailbag,
01:33 obviously we had the first session of OTAs today,
01:35 so general thoughts on what we saw, some impressions.
01:38 Obviously, there's not a ton we can genuinely take away
01:41 in terms of, like, long-term outlook,
01:43 but I feel like there were some players in different spots.
01:45 We got to see Drake May with the veterans and Joe Milton,
01:48 so we kind of got to see different types of arm strength
01:50 and everything. I'll start with you, Doug.
01:52 What were some of your big takeaways?
01:54 Yeah, I think number one was just the quarterback order,
01:57 that it was Jacoby Brissett, then Bailey Zappi,
02:01 then Drake May, then Joe Milton.
02:03 I know there's probably going to be a lot made out of that,
02:05 but for me personally, I was expecting it to go
02:07 Jacoby Brissett, then Drake May,
02:09 so Bailey Zappi taking reps in the middle of them
02:12 was somewhat surprising to me.
02:14 And then the other big takeaway for me
02:16 was just the offensive line combinations as well.
02:19 I expected, you know, Chukzikorafor to be at left tackle,
02:23 but we saw that with our own eyes out there.
02:25 And then just the two starting guards,
02:28 you know, being Sidi Sou at left guard,
02:30 Nick Levert at right guard,
02:31 we have a little bit more context on that
02:33 now that we know that Cole Strange,
02:35 expected to miss the start of the season,
02:37 could be out until midseason.
02:39 So, you know, with Sidi Sou,
02:42 he played, you know, relatively well at right guard last year,
02:46 but in college, he spent most of his time at left guard.
02:49 So it's not ultimately that surprising that, like,
02:52 if they think that someone's going to have to play left guard
02:54 for a while, Sidi Sou might be the best option
02:57 in the interim while Cole Strange is out.
03:00 - Yeah, I wasn't there, full disclosure.
03:04 I was in Florida already getting ready for the heat,
03:06 but I came back and at least from the outside looking in,
03:09 it is the offensive line.
03:10 That's the main takeaway.
03:11 The offensive line combinations and, you know, again,
03:14 Doug, like you mentioned, getting more clarity
03:15 on why we saw it like that
03:17 and with Cole Strange not being out there.
03:20 And I will say too, it's just, it's,
03:22 I forget where I, you know, where I heard it
03:24 or where I read it or something, but the fact that it,
03:26 and again, they don't really have a true left tackle
03:28 right now on the roster, at least, you know,
03:30 starting caliber.
03:31 And so you're going to have to get Choux-Akorafor ready.
03:33 You're going to have to get Caden Wallace ready.
03:35 If, you know, if you want that to be your answer
03:38 or your option, whether that be halfway through the season
03:40 or whether that be going into next season.
03:42 So that's going to be an adjustment for everyone.
03:43 But I think overall, as far as, you know,
03:46 quarterbacks and everything, it seems like status quo,
03:50 on that front, I know you said, Doug,
03:53 that you didn't necessarily think that Drake May
03:56 would be third, you thought he'd be second.
03:57 But at this point, it's also just seemingly, you know,
04:00 the first day of OTAs, rookies are last on the depth chart.
04:02 You still have to quote unquote, earn your stripes for now.
04:06 But, you know, it's not a big secret,
04:07 the fact that Drake May is the future
04:09 and they want to develop him somewhere down the road.
04:11 So, but yeah, I think the offensive line is just,
04:14 you know, the main thing for me.
04:16 - Yeah, Mike, you mentioned the left tackle spot.
04:17 They don't have somebody who has extensive pro experience
04:20 at the position and Chuck Zagora,
04:22 when he was asked about it, gave kind of the opposite answer
04:24 of what we got from Gaten Wallace, when he was like,
04:26 "Yeah, you know, I've done it in practice.
04:28 "It's not really a big deal, it's just getting used to it."
04:30 Chuck was kind of gave the veteran answer.
04:32 He was like, you know, "It's a new position,
04:33 "even though he did play it in college.
04:35 "I'm in a new playbook and offense, I'm in a new town.
04:37 "So I'm still getting used to everything."
04:39 Which, you know, I kind of like that answer.
04:41 He set an expectation so that nobody just thinks
04:43 he's going to go out there and dominate
04:44 and left tackle necessarily.
04:46 But, you know, we'll end up seeing when the pads
04:48 actually come on what that looks like.
04:50 For me, one of the surprising things,
04:51 other than kind of the interior offensive line rotation,
04:54 was the receivers.
04:55 Where we saw Taekwon Thornton was actually the starting X,
04:58 and then you had KJ Osborne,
04:59 likely taking over for Kendrick Bourne as the Z,
05:02 but it'll be interesting to see when he comes back,
05:04 if he comes back anytime soon,
05:05 what that rotation kind of looks like.
05:07 And then Juju telling us he's 100%, you know,
05:10 take him at his word.
05:11 He was saying he was good last year and look how that went.
05:13 But, you know, he said last year he was only 60%,
05:16 but it didn't seem like he was part of the main rotation.
05:18 You really saw, I think Kwon Baker actually was on the field
05:21 before he was with some of those top groupings.
05:23 So we'll see how that plays out.
05:25 Again, guys who are already here probably getting priority,
05:28 and Taekwon seems like someone they'd want
05:29 to try to see what they have in him.
05:31 He has speed they don't have anywhere else on the offense.
05:33 He's on a rookie contract.
05:34 So if he can just make the team to someone
05:36 who plays like 15, 20 snaps a game max,
05:39 as a guy who really scares you on early downs
05:41 going down the field, maybe that would be pretty nice.
05:44 But, you know, again, you get to see what the plan might be
05:46 for certain guys.
05:47 Antonio Maffi playing at center.
05:49 Didn't have that on my bingo card.
05:51 That one really caught me off guard.
05:52 We do know they want to start cross training guys.
05:55 So hopefully he can carve out a niche of someone
05:57 who can at least kind of back up a lot of different spots
06:00 while they figure out what's going on in there.
06:01 It doesn't seem like he's in the top plans.
06:03 But without further ado,
06:04 let's get into some of these mailbag questions.
06:07 Starting with you, Doug.
06:09 Based on what you've seen in OTAs and training camp,
06:11 who's in the lead for the guard spot now
06:13 that we know Strange will be out for most of the year?
06:15 I will clarify, we don't know what's going to be
06:17 most of the year necessarily.
06:18 It sounds like it's probably going to be
06:20 sometime in the middle of the season,
06:22 which again, with CitySew with left guard,
06:23 it was like, yeah, he's probably not going to be available
06:26 anytime soon if you're moving a guy
06:27 who's going to be a starter into another starter's role.
06:30 - Yeah, I did get a little bit more context on that
06:33 just in talking to some people from the team.
06:35 They really view Cole Strange and CitySew
06:37 as being the incumbent starters at guard.
06:40 They thought that so did enough last year at guard
06:43 to want to move forward with him
06:44 as another one of their starters.
06:45 So it seems like he's a starter somewhere though.
06:49 I don't think they've fully figured out
06:51 what side he's going to play.
06:53 So that might be something that we see, you know,
06:55 over the next few weeks and months,
06:56 him moving around a little bit.
06:58 But yeah, it looked like at least from the first OTAs
07:01 that Nick Leverett would be the next guy in line.
07:05 Certainly would not be surprised if the Patriots
07:07 gave Leighton Robinson every opportunity
07:09 to earn that other guard role,
07:10 whether that was at left guard or right guard,
07:12 however that shakes out.
07:14 And then, you know, Antonio Moffie could be in the mix there
07:17 or Michael Jordan's potentially in the mix.
07:20 Jake Andrews, if he could move over from center,
07:22 which I think that like the real top candidates
07:25 that I view right now behind so and Strange
07:29 would be Robinson, Leverett, and perhaps Moffie.
07:33 - Yeah, it's the same way.
07:35 It seems like they've, no, even last year, you know,
07:39 when they drafted So and Andrews and Moffie,
07:42 and then this year they go interior again,
07:44 not only in free agency with Leverett, who you mentioned,
07:46 but also drafting Leighton Robinson.
07:48 Like it was clear that, you know,
07:49 they knew something was up with Cole Strange
07:51 and they had to plan ahead and now have, you know,
07:54 four or five guys that they'll have at least some confidence
07:57 in putting in that interior offensive line rotation.
07:59 You mentioned too, Taylor,
08:01 like the cross training with Antonio Moffie,
08:03 not that we expect David Andrews to be gone anytime soon,
08:05 especially now that he signed an extension
08:07 through next season, but, you know,
08:08 having that ability to kind of play all three spots,
08:11 I think will be crucial.
08:13 And Leverett too, I think it's only a one year deal.
08:16 So that's seemingly, right, you plug him in,
08:18 put So on the left, wait for Strange to get healthy,
08:21 give him a chance.
08:22 If he can't come back and he is, you know,
08:24 God forbid expendable, right?
08:26 And you, you know, you get rid of him.
08:27 Then you have a guy like Leighton Robinson,
08:29 who you can kind of bring in down the stretch of the season.
08:31 So it's kind of a,
08:33 definitely a work in progress for sure.
08:34 But yeah, you guys kind of nailed it.
08:36 I really, when Nick Leverett was signed,
08:38 considering he has starting experience,
08:40 played with Tom Brady and the Buccaneers,
08:42 it is interesting because he was mostly a center
08:45 and a left guard.
08:45 And for the interior,
08:46 for the offensive line in general,
08:48 those are the spots where you kind of have the most help.
08:51 Like you see, obviously the center's usually
08:52 giving somebody else help.
08:54 And the left guard is someone who's usually going against
08:56 like nose tackles.
08:57 So you don't really see them having a tough assignments.
08:59 That right guard, like with Shaq Mason,
09:01 is the guy where you usually see them on an Island.
09:03 So especially watching his Buccaneers tape,
09:05 it kind of reminds you that Tom Brady is ridiculous.
09:07 Like he's getting the ball out so fast.
09:09 I'm looking at, oh my God, this guy didn't give up a sack.
09:11 Like his pressure rate is really low.
09:13 Like he must be kind of a hidden gem.
09:15 I do like his physicality in the run game.
09:17 And like, even in reps against quality players,
09:19 he did have flashes, but most of the time it's just like,
09:21 oh yeah, these defensive linemen have no shot
09:23 at getting anywhere near Brady.
09:24 So that will be interesting.
09:26 But it kind of leads interestingly into this question
09:28 with the Cole Strange conversation.
09:30 Regardless of Cole Strange's performance upon his return,
09:33 is it safe to assume the Patriots will not pick up
09:35 his fifth year option after the season?
09:37 What would you do?
09:38 And the reason I think this is interesting
09:40 is if you do have City, so,
09:41 if Leighton Robinson establishes himself as a starter,
09:44 David Andrews, yeah, he was extended,
09:46 but he's probably not going to play more than two years.
09:48 Maybe you keep the fifth year option for Cole Strange
09:51 and say, hey, put him in at center,
09:53 see if there's anything there.
09:54 Cause he's easily the best athlete on the interior,
09:56 on the entire offensive line.
09:58 And then you look at Jake Andrews,
10:00 like maybe he comes along, but we really don't know.
10:02 So do you guys think if he does, you know, play well,
10:05 but also you're in a situation where you want to play Leighton,
10:07 could they possibly pick up that fifth year option
10:10 and try him in a different spot?
10:11 - Yeah, I mean, it's possible.
10:14 Just like, it's a lot of money to invest in someone that,
10:18 like, just from who I was talking to the other day,
10:20 like I was talking to him about Cole Strange as well.
10:22 And it's like, well, he wasn't very good as a rookie.
10:25 He came on in his second year,
10:27 but dealt with injuries to start the season.
10:29 In the middle of the season,
10:30 and then at the end of the season.
10:31 And now one of those injuries is carrying on
10:33 until his third season.
10:35 So like, I think he'd have to play really well
10:39 over whatever it is,
10:41 the last three quarters to half of the season
10:44 for them to pick up that fifth year option.
10:46 Because I was trying to look up
10:48 the fifth year option projections for, you know, 2022.
10:53 I like the lowest that he would be getting,
10:59 I can't even, would be like, I don't know,
11:01 like $15 million, something like that for a fifth year.
11:04 It's just so much money.
11:06 - Yeah, it is.
11:07 - And that might not be accurate, I'll look more into it.
11:10 But yeah, it's a lot.
11:11 - It's just, it's too much for,
11:12 like, I like the idea, Taylor, you mentioned of,
11:14 you know, just you slide him into center.
11:16 He's an athlete, you can make it work.
11:18 But for $15 million, it's sort of a guess is tough, right?
11:22 Like, again, unless he comes in
11:25 when he's healthy this season,
11:27 you try it out in practice.
11:28 You think you can trust it.
11:29 And then maybe he gets reps at some point, you know,
11:31 down the line in a game,
11:33 depending on where David Andrews is, you know,
11:35 health-wise and whatever.
11:37 But aside from that, I don't see them picking it up
11:40 unless he comes in and kicks ass
11:43 at the left guard spot this year.
11:44 But like right now, looking at the question,
11:46 regardless of the performance upon the return,
11:49 he's not a candidate in my opinion
11:51 to get the fifth year option picked up whatsoever.
11:53 - Yeah, I agree.
11:54 Especially once the figure's out there,
11:55 I literally got back goosebumps.
11:56 So it's like, oh yeah, okay, that's probably not a good idea.
11:59 And in Stranger's defense, I will say,
12:01 he's played well at the end of both of his last two seasons,
12:04 obviously ended last season with an injury.
12:05 But as a rookie, I really thought he started to pick it up.
12:08 Like he got benched obviously pretty briefly
12:10 'cause he had a really tough stretch early to mid season.
12:13 Then I felt like he started to gain some momentum,
12:15 got hurt obviously, that kind of crushed his ability
12:17 to really start building on it.
12:19 But then mid to kind of late season before his injury,
12:22 even Bill Belichick said, yeah, no, he's playing better.
12:24 You look at the stats,
12:25 his pressure rate allowed was lower,
12:27 his run blocking grade was better.
12:28 I only looked it up and I ended up wanting to ask Bill
12:31 because I'm like, wait,
12:31 he's looking like he's finally healthy.
12:33 And I talked to him in the locker room,
12:34 he said he was feeling like he was kind of
12:36 getting some positive momentum, which again,
12:38 it just sucks when a guy is doing well
12:40 and then he gets derailed by injury.
12:42 So I agree, Doug, I think he'd have to truly dominate
12:44 if he were gonna get that.
12:45 And even still, if he does play well,
12:47 that seems more like a situation where you give a guy
12:50 like a prove it kind of deal.
12:51 'Cause it doesn't seem like anybody else
12:52 is gonna pay him the kind of money
12:53 that he's not gonna be able to come back to New England
12:55 if they do wanna give him a tryout at center.
12:57 - Yeah, because that fifth year option,
12:59 I wish I had looked it up before
13:01 I gave the initial part of my answer.
13:02 It's only broken down by offensive line.
13:05 So you're throwing him left tackles, right tackles,
13:07 all those guys in there.
13:09 So he would literally have to be the best guard in football.
13:13 Whenever he plays this season for them to consider it.
13:17 Otherwise, I think that you either let him walk
13:20 after the fourth year or try to sign him
13:22 to a team friendly extension, something like that.
13:25 But I mean, he was also an older draft pick too.
13:27 He's gonna be 27 this year, 26, 27,
13:31 which is kind of wild, not to get on a tangent here,
13:35 but when I was doing the Andrew Callahan's podcast,
13:37 we were talking about City South's age as well.
13:40 City South is like basically the same age
13:43 as Chukwuma Okorafor, despite the fact that Chukwuma Okorafor
13:46 has been in the league since 2018.
13:48 I think they're only like,
13:49 I think they're like less than a year apart.
13:51 And the same thing for Cole Strange as well.
13:53 Like some of these guys like Okorafor
13:55 coming into the league when they're 20 years old.
13:56 And some of these guys recently with COVID
13:58 and everything like that are coming in at 24, 25.
14:00 And it's harder to sign them to longer term extensions
14:03 once they get up to that age.
14:05 - And I hate to beat a dead horse here, but I guess I will.
14:07 It goes to show that that first round pick on Cole Strange
14:10 was just not the right decision.
14:13 Because again, you like, okay,
14:15 one of the reasons why when you trade back
14:17 into the first round or even you trade out,
14:18 but you stay in the, or trade back rather,
14:20 and you stay in the first round,
14:21 is the potential for that 50 year option.
14:24 But now, like you said, that 50 year option
14:26 is not just guard money, but tackle money.
14:28 And so that all gets looped in.
14:30 It's like, are we really gonna wanna do this for a guard?
14:32 And maybe back then they did, but right now it just,
14:34 again, it starts to look worse and worse by the day.
14:37 - For sure, especially when the Chiefs picked Trent McDuffie
14:40 with the pick that they traded down from.
14:43 And I know there's people within the Patriots organization
14:45 who are still not very pleased about that.
14:47 - Oh boy.
14:49 - With the age thing, I just keep thinking back
14:50 to the fact that it's kind of similar
14:51 to how Kyle Dugger and Jabril Peppers,
14:53 I think Dugger's older than Peppers,
14:55 if not like very similar ages.
14:56 And obviously Peppers was in the league way longer.
14:58 I just keep thinking about that.
14:59 That's pretty wild.
15:01 All right, last offensive line question.
15:02 We had to start the show off with some real juicy stuff.
15:05 What everybody's coming here for is the old line stuff.
15:07 - Starting the trade is.
15:08 - Does the Patriot offensive line personnel
15:09 fit the outside zone run scheme
15:11 we're probably gonna be using this season?
15:13 Anybody wanna start or do we wanna defer the scheme back?
15:16 - You can start with that one, Taylor, if you want to.
15:19 That's way to throw it. - Taylor, this is your
15:19 bread and butter, yeah. - I don't want to.
15:21 I just always feel like a jerk when I throw that at people.
15:24 But I will say, Mafia Center, it kind of makes more sense
15:29 just because it's really the interior offensive linemen
15:32 that pull a lot in this system.
15:33 Now with the outside zone, you also get like pin pull
15:36 where based on the alignment of the defense,
15:38 different linemen are gonna go out and get into space.
15:40 You don't love Mafia in that role,
15:42 especially if you're trying to get outside
15:43 the way Van Pelt typically does
15:45 when they run those kinds of plays.
15:46 But for the most part, I think they do.
15:48 Leighton Robinson's kind of awkward
15:50 because he's more of like a mauler
15:52 and he's a little heavier footed,
15:54 but he has really good length.
15:55 He does have experience pulling
15:57 and he's got good grip strength.
15:58 So those kinds of things I think
15:59 can kind of make up for a little bit.
16:01 Cole Strange is obviously a perfect fit.
16:02 That's why they drafted him,
16:03 but he's not really gonna be around.
16:05 The rest of the guys like Chooks Okorokor,
16:07 we see him on the field.
16:08 He looks different than every other lineman they have.
16:10 He looks like a jumbo tight end, so he's a good fit.
16:13 Caden Wallace is a good fit.
16:15 Mike Nwenu is a good fit for tackle, I think.
16:18 That's why there was talk about him at guard
16:20 when Alex Van Pelt was signed,
16:22 and I didn't think that made sense
16:23 because you see like DeJuan Jones,
16:25 he was really just kind of walling guys off.
16:27 Sometimes if it was like crack toss, he'd pull out,
16:30 and we've seen Mike Nwenu do that.
16:32 But really, I think in this system,
16:33 he's okay as a right tackle, just kind of be a big body.
16:36 Sometimes you'll do a combo and try to take over.
16:39 I think he'll be fine in that regard.
16:40 Sidney So, there's a reason they tried him
16:42 at tackle last season.
16:43 He is really athletic for a guard.
16:45 And then David Andrews, I think is just crafty enough.
16:48 He's not a crazy athlete at this point in his career,
16:50 but I think he is just good enough
16:52 that he'll be able to do well in that scheme.
16:53 And then Nick LaBrette as well, he's super wide.
16:56 You wouldn't really expect him to move as well as he does,
16:59 but in that Tampa Bay scheme, you saw him pull a lot.
17:01 So, I think that it's still probably best suited
17:05 for these guys to be going downhill.
17:07 But at the same time, if you want your core
17:09 to be outside zone and work that,
17:11 knowing that as they kind of talked about when we talked,
17:13 I think it was Nwenu or Monduri Stevenson,
17:15 where it's harder to rep outside zone
17:17 because it takes so much chemistry and timing
17:19 and knowing how guys are going to play off different looks
17:22 and different defensive alignments and things like that
17:24 versus Gap, where it's just like, yeah, you see that guy,
17:27 put him in that guy's lap behind him and you're good.
17:29 So, I think it could be better fits,
17:32 but I still think that they have enough tools
17:34 that they can run it effectively.
17:35 - Well, and the one thing I'll add to it, Taylor,
17:36 we talked about this a couple of weeks ago on here,
17:38 I think with Phil, when we did a mailbag,
17:40 was that, you know, start out with it,
17:42 see how, and again, when Van Pelt came in,
17:45 started to implement the offense with the personnel they had
17:48 maybe outside zone was going to be the bread and butter,
17:51 you want to call it.
17:51 And then they signed the free agents,
17:54 they go through the draft and they think it'll work.
17:56 And if it doesn't just pivot, and it might not be that easy,
17:59 but you don't necessarily have to just play to your scheme
18:03 if your guys don't play to it.
18:04 And then, you know, you end up trying to fit a square peg
18:06 into a round hole.
18:07 So, it might not be their bread and butter
18:09 if they don't like how it fits.
18:11 But right now, everything you mentioned with, you know,
18:13 the size of, the size and the way the guys move,
18:16 I think it fits it.
18:18 But if it, again, if it doesn't work out,
18:19 then you can just kind of pivot
18:21 and make something else work.
18:22 - They also have a lot of options
18:24 on their roster right now.
18:26 They've got 18 offensive linemen,
18:27 which I'd have to look like historically,
18:29 but it just seems like a really long list
18:32 when I look at it right now.
18:33 And it's also a lot of guys who are experienced too.
18:35 I think of that 18, only 14 of them are rookies.
18:39 So, they can kind of work things out.
18:42 This is the first practice that we saw in OTAs.
18:44 The offensive line combination could look different.
18:46 It could be someone else other than Nick Clever
18:48 in there moving forward here.
18:50 But no, I think that as far as, you know,
18:52 it fitting the outside zone,
18:54 they kept talking about it with Okorafor and Caden Wallace,
18:58 like athleticism kept coming up
19:01 when everyone's asking them
19:02 if these guys can play left tackle.
19:03 So, clearly, they were looking for a certain type
19:06 at left tackle, even if it wasn't guys
19:08 who are recently experienced in that position,
19:11 they were still clearly looking for athleticism.
19:13 And I even wonder, like, say Chooks dominates
19:18 in training camp, preseason, whatever,
19:21 Siddy Sal looks great,
19:22 and they don't love one of the other guards on the roster.
19:25 Like, there's still the potential
19:27 that they could move Caden Wallace to guard for one season
19:30 and give him a shot in there
19:31 as another one of the more athletic offensive linemen
19:34 on this roster.
19:35 That's not anything that I've necessarily heard,
19:37 but I just look at that as being another option for them.
19:40 The other option too is that, you know,
19:42 if Okorafor doesn't perform well,
19:43 because as you were saying earlier, Taylor,
19:45 he was really kind of tempering expectations for himself
19:48 and for everyone else about him playing left tackle.
19:50 I think some of that is just his personality
19:53 that I was kind of picking up.
19:54 But if he doesn't perform well,
19:56 if Caden Wallace doesn't look comfortable at left tackle,
19:58 there are actually still some options out there
20:01 for left tackle.
20:02 David Bakhtiari, I know that someone recently reported
20:04 that he would be ready for the 2024 season.
20:06 Charles Leno's still out there,
20:08 Donovan Smith's still out there.
20:09 So, you know, the Patriots do still have
20:11 kind of a trial period for some of these left tackles,
20:14 where if they don't look good,
20:15 if they don't look like they're going to be ready,
20:17 they still could have some options out there
20:19 in free agency as well.
20:20 - They don't have any of these guys
20:22 really pinned into a position.
20:23 I feel like they have just a bunch of offensive linemen
20:26 that they feel can play just about anywhere,
20:28 which in theory is a great thing to have.
20:30 We just need to see it on the field first.
20:32 And then if they truly have that versatility,
20:34 then they can do pretty much anything they want.
20:36 - For sure.
20:37 - A hundred percent.
20:38 And Dahlgren, I like that you mentioned experience,
20:39 'cause one thing when they were taking these guys,
20:40 like we've seen over the past two seasons in the draft,
20:43 they are looking for older prospects who played a lot.
20:46 I really think that's a philosophical thing
20:48 because with the CBA the way it is,
20:50 where you don't have a lot of padded practices,
20:52 I was literally just listening to Games with Names
20:54 and Cooper Cup and Edelman were talking about
20:56 how it's so much harder for offensive linemen
20:58 to get things down.
20:59 Cole Strange was telling me last season,
21:01 you know, everybody gives him a lot of crap
21:02 about how he can't take on a bull rush.
21:04 And he's like, "Yeah, well, I can't really simulate that."
21:06 Like he put on weight and he really did focus on it,
21:08 but he's like, "I can't, you need someone
21:10 "who's 300 plus pounds trying to move you backwards.
21:14 "The sled's not gonna do that for you."
21:15 So I think, and we mentioned,
21:17 Chucho Corpore mentioned with Scott Peters,
21:20 we kind of asked about what he's like as a coach.
21:21 He mentioned that Peters teaches technique more specifically
21:25 and to a higher degree than he's seen at other stops
21:27 because obviously has experience,
21:29 literally has a side hustle where he teaches technique.
21:32 I think he wants somebody where it's like,
21:33 "This guy's seen a lot of football.
21:34 "He knows, you know, if I have a shade, I do this.
21:37 "If I have a three technique, I tend to do this."
21:39 And it's really just finding out
21:40 what your specific coach and system want.
21:42 And Scott Peters can articulate that with them
21:44 and show them how he wants it done.
21:46 So I think that experience is huge for them
21:48 because if you're talking about moving
21:50 around the offensive line,
21:51 if you're talking about maybe having to pick things up
21:53 a little more quickly, it's easier when you're a guy
21:55 who's played a ton of football
21:57 versus the guy like an Emarius Mims,
21:59 where as much as I liked him and I had him on my big board,
22:01 'cause I'm like, "He's so talented.
22:02 "If he slips, I can't leave him off."
22:04 But a guy like that, it could still be harder
22:06 to teach him and kind of get him up to speed
22:08 as quickly as you might want.
22:09 So I like that note a lot because if these guys do play,
22:12 whatever experience they have
22:13 is really gonna come in handy.
22:15 All right, we got a lot more questions, everybody.
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23:18 - We did get a comment in here on the offensive line.
23:26 I know I said I'd move on,
23:27 but this was actually a pretty good point.
23:28 - Can't quit it, can ya?
23:30 - Wouldn't it make sense to always pick a tackle?
23:32 At worst, you can switch 'em to guard.
23:34 That's not a crazy philosophy.
23:35 There are some teams
23:36 who are their interior offensive linemen,
23:37 if they know they want them to move around a lot,
23:39 they will take guys who were really college tackles
23:42 who probably aren't great fits there in the pros
23:44 and then move them to guard.
23:45 So we don't have to go on for this one too long,
23:47 but I'm curious what you guys think,
23:48 'cause that is a good point.
23:49 I think it's something that actually does happen.
23:51 - I don't hate it. - I always think
23:52 the same thing about cornerbacks moving to safety as well.
23:54 I'm surprised that more teams don't do that
23:56 because, and obviously the Patriots had great success
23:59 doing that with Devin McCourty,
24:00 and realistically, your better athlete
24:03 is going to be at cornerback than safety,
24:06 and you see that every year at the Combine as well.
24:08 Cornerbacks are running four threes, four fours.
24:10 Safeties are usually running four fives.
24:13 A lot of times, I would rather just take a cornerback late
24:16 and try to move him to safety
24:17 rather than gamble on a safety late in the draft.
24:19 - A little more work style. (laughs)
24:21 - Yeah, exactly.
24:22 - It does feel very similar with more athletic,
24:25 you would think offensive linemen are your tackles,
24:27 and then if it doesn't work 'cause they can't adjust,
24:30 I guess it's not easier to play guard, it's just different,
24:33 but I guess we can maybe call it a little bit easier,
24:36 and then you can adjust accordingly and go from there.
24:38 So I mean, in every situation, no,
24:40 but as a broad, I guess, broad stroke draft philosophy,
24:44 I don't necessarily hate that.
24:45 But you mentioned the defense, go ahead, no, go ahead first.
24:48 - No, you're good, you're good, you're good.
24:49 - No, I was gonna bring up another question
24:51 that was kind of similar to cornerback safety,
24:53 so if you had something else before that.
24:54 - Oh yeah, no, go ahead.
24:55 I was just gonna say, Nightshade,
24:56 thanks for showing love from Germany, that's really cool.
24:58 - Oh, I did see that.
24:59 - Thank you very much.
25:00 - All right, we got this one, Old Man Mob,
25:02 what is your biggest fear on defense?
25:04 'Cause you mentioned cornerback and safety.
25:06 I love the cornerback room.
25:08 Safety, I'll answer it first.
25:10 I don't think it's a concern 'cause I love, you know,
25:13 what Duggar and Peppers do,
25:14 but I still feel like they don't have that true free safety
25:17 that we've had since McCordy was here.
25:19 I know Marcellus Dial might be an option
25:22 to switch over there like we just mentioned from cornerback,
25:25 but he's a rookie sixth round pick.
25:27 Like I still feel like they're sort of missing
25:29 that true, you know, back end of the defense, free safety,
25:33 but I'm curious on what you guys think too here.
25:35 - Yeah, I mean, I agree that,
25:37 they made it work last year,
25:39 so I'm not overly concerned about it.
25:41 You remove Adrian Phillips and Jalen Mills,
25:43 like either one of those guys probably didn't necessarily
25:46 need to be on the roster last year anyway,
25:49 but I do think that you need to see
25:51 what Marte Maffu can do,
25:53 and now's a good time to see it.
25:55 In OTAs, maybe the early part of training camp,
25:57 because there are still some talented safeties out there
25:59 that if Patriots feel like they do need more depth
26:01 at that position, there are some options out there.
26:04 But yeah, I would say that biggest fear on defense,
26:08 it's gotta be in that secondary.
26:11 Christian Gonzalez, great.
26:12 Jonathan Jones, ultimate pro.
26:14 Still don't totally know what Marcus Jones is,
26:17 whether he's an outside guy,
26:18 like a really small outside guy, a nickel.
26:22 If he's a nickel, that means moving Jonathan
26:23 or continuing to play Jonathan Jones outside.
26:26 And then I like the options that they have as depth
26:30 with guys like, even like Alex Austin, Marcellus Dial,
26:35 Isaiah Bolden showed something last year,
26:38 but there's not a lot of guarantees
26:40 in that cornerback room as even being like the fourth guy
26:43 on the depth chart.
26:44 - Even Marco Wilson is a guy who showed some promise,
26:48 but it's not by any means a guarantee.
26:50 - Right, Sean Wade, kind of in the same thing
26:52 as Marco Wilson, yeah.
26:54 - Yeah, when it comes to safety,
26:56 if Marte Mapu comes along, I really like the break.
26:59 'Cause I feel like the way they kind of work their packages,
27:01 I do like Jabril Peppers as the free safety in most of them.
27:04 I think when they use that big nickel
27:05 where they usually put a safety in the slot,
27:07 that's where I like Jabril Peppers near the line,
27:09 'cause that's where they blitz him and like Anthony Jennings,
27:11 that's where a ton of their tackles for loss
27:13 and run stops came from last season.
27:15 But when they're in like their dime
27:17 and you really are trying to get like Dugger and Mapu
27:20 in the box where like Dugger maybe,
27:21 or he's even like a lurk guy, kind of like Devin McCourty.
27:24 You use Mapu as more of like maybe a man to man guy.
27:27 I kind of like that.
27:28 So if Mapu doesn't take the step forward,
27:30 then I'm a little bit more concerned
27:31 because there were times where Jalen Mills
27:33 and even Miles Bryant seemed like they had to step up
27:36 because Mapu, especially on the deep part of the field,
27:39 really wasn't very consistent.
27:40 But I would like to see him take on more
27:42 of that deep safety role so Peppers can move around
27:45 and then you don't need Dugger in the back end.
27:47 Like we saw him take a snap there.
27:48 I think it was like the first defensive snap
27:49 in 11 on 11s.
27:50 I was like, did we not learn from last season?
27:54 We'll see how that works out.
27:55 - Did you see the thing Peppers tweeted the other day
27:58 when Cleveland played him like free safety,
28:00 like a punt returner.
28:01 And like he wasn't even close to the line of scrimmage.
28:03 He was like, this is not where I play football, man.
28:05 - It's crazy.
28:06 - Yeah.
28:07 - I remember studying him when he was with the Giants
28:08 and like they were putting him in man to man
28:10 against Cooper Cub.
28:11 And I'm like, corners can't do this.
28:13 What the hell is the thinking here?
28:14 Like he's doing all whatever.
28:16 But, and like you guys mentioned,
28:17 cornerback, love John Jones, love Don.
28:19 So Marcus Jones, I honestly see as a bonus.
28:22 If he's healthy, that's really cool.
28:24 But for right now, we just,
28:26 he hasn't been able to stay on the field.
28:27 He's been solid at times,
28:28 but there's also inconsistencies.
28:30 I do love the young competition they have.
28:33 I just want to talk about bringing in Stefan Gilmore
28:35 as like a late summer call where you're like,
28:37 hey, it's really not looking great
28:39 at the other corner spot.
28:40 We need you.
28:40 If he's willing to play for a team and a rebuild,
28:42 I'm all for it.
28:43 But Alex Saucen, super talented.
28:45 Marco Wilson's a pretty solid player.
28:47 And Isaiah Bolden's another guy who we were all,
28:49 I think, fairly high on just because he's so talented.
28:51 Deion Sanders loved him.
28:52 He played all over the secondary.
28:54 I like him there.
28:55 I would say actually,
28:57 the edge position kind of scares me.
28:59 Like, you know what you're getting in Anthony Jennings.
29:01 He's an elite run defender, not a great pass rusher,
29:03 but that's all right.
29:03 He can work on stunts.
29:05 Judon's injury was an upper body.
29:06 So I'm not as worried about his ability to rebound.
29:09 But then it's Joshua Uche.
29:11 We do know that he even said this scheme
29:12 will probably play more to his strengths.
29:14 If he can rebound, that's awesome.
29:16 But then like Keon White is still an unknown.
29:19 Kind of like Martí Mapo.
29:20 If he takes a step forward,
29:21 then this position group looks a lot better.
29:23 But we still don't really know what he is.
29:25 And then Oshane Jiménez, I think he's a solid player,
29:27 but more of a rotational kind.
29:30 He can do it all, but you don't want him starting for you.
29:32 So I don't think there's any glaring holes on this defense,
29:35 and that's a really good spot to be in.
29:37 But I think secondary and edge are definitely spots
29:40 where you want to see young guys step up.
29:43 And that really kind of determines
29:45 what that position group's going to look like.
29:46 Great question there.
29:48 All right, now let's get to another one.
29:50 Let's talk some wide receivers.
29:53 Who do we see being the fourth man
29:55 at that wide receiver spot?
29:57 Honestly, I think we can kind of open this up
29:59 to how do you see the depth chart going?
30:01 - Yeah.
30:01 - Keep Kendrick Bourne, if he's healthy, probably pop.
30:04 But then I don't really know who the third man is,
30:06 much less the fourth.
30:08 - Yeah, I think, yeah.
30:09 You kind of have to determine who the first guy is
30:11 almost before you determine who the fourth guy is.
30:13 Because like, as far as who's going to be the X
30:17 on this team, I think it is interesting
30:20 that Taequann Thornton was the guy who was in that spot
30:23 because it really feels like it's going to be
30:25 one of the rookies.
30:26 And it feels like it was probably only Taequann Thornton
30:29 because the Patriots did want to send a message
30:32 to their rookies that you guys are last on the depth chart,
30:34 you're last in the reps, like whatever it is.
30:37 So I don't know.
30:38 I mean, I think that ultimately what's going to come down to
30:41 is the wide receiver core is going to be,
30:46 I mean, it all depends on Kendrick Bourne's health,
30:47 but I would probably say one of the rookies,
30:51 Demario Douglas and Kendrick Bourne.
30:53 And then KJ Osborne can kind of be that super sub depth
30:58 where like, I wouldn't have even minded
31:02 if they had let Kendrick Bourne walk
31:03 and only signed KJ Osborne,
31:05 but at least like with KJ Osborne in there,
31:07 your entire wide receiver depth looks better.
31:10 But it really does kind of depend on Bourne's health.
31:12 But yeah, I would probably say Polk, Bourne and Douglas,
31:17 and then KJ Osborne would probably be the fourth,
31:19 but I would still expect him to play a lot.
31:21 - I agree.
31:22 And I also wonder, Taylor, you've mentioned this a lot
31:25 and I feel like I pushed back on it a bit,
31:27 but the more, you know, after you bring in the rookies
31:30 and I guess you think about the room more,
31:32 I wonder how expendable KJ Osborne could be
31:35 when it comes down to it,
31:35 because he did only sign a one year deal.
31:37 And, you know, would that be,
31:39 I don't want to call it harsh,
31:41 where you bring him in and sign him and then he's gone,
31:43 but it was only a one year deal.
31:44 And if Javon Baker and Jalen Polk
31:48 can really come on strong in training camp
31:50 and you feel like those can be like day one contributors
31:53 and you feel comfortable about Kendrick Bourne's health
31:56 and Tyquan Thornton plays well,
31:57 granted there's a ton of factors,
31:59 but I wonder how expendable Osborne could be
32:01 when it comes down to cut down day.
32:03 Same thing with Tyquan Thornton.
32:04 Like you mentioned he was the starting X receiver.
32:08 That just feels like, okay, Kendrick,
32:10 and now Kendrick Bourne's not an X,
32:11 but you know, Bourne's not healthy.
32:13 The rookies aren't going to get in there.
32:14 KJ Osborne's never been in the system.
32:17 We haven't even talked about Juju Smith-Schuster.
32:19 Like where does he fall into this whole thing?
32:21 So it's a bunch of,
32:24 it's a bunch of question marks right now,
32:26 but I would agree with Doug that I think, you know,
32:28 one rookie ends up as the quote unquote starter,
32:31 Kendrick Bourne if he's healthy,
32:32 and then tomorrow Doug is in the slot.
32:34 - Another thing about Thornton being the X
32:36 that's interesting is that Jalen Rager
32:37 was really the starting X late last season.
32:40 - Yeah. - Wasn't Ty.
32:41 So that's even like, again,
32:42 I feel like it shows that they want to try
32:44 to give him some reps,
32:46 but it turns out this is going to work out.
32:48 It does come down to Kendrick Bourne's health.
32:49 I think he's better than KJ because we kind of forget,
32:53 considering last year there was very few,
32:55 there were very few throws downfield.
32:57 But when you look at 2021,
32:58 remember like Kendrick Bourne was making some crazy catches
33:01 all the way downfield,
33:02 and he fits in that vein of a Baker or a Polk
33:04 where Baker I think has a little more juice
33:06 where he really can kind of separate downfield,
33:09 but he's really just a ball winner
33:11 where if you throw it up to him,
33:12 he's probably going to get it.
33:13 He may have lost some explosiveness,
33:15 so I don't want to necessarily say
33:16 he's a three level threat right now,
33:18 but he does give you more if he's healthy
33:19 than I think KJ Osborne.
33:21 So kind of lump those two guys into like one of them
33:23 is probably going to get one of the starting roles,
33:25 then obviously pop in three receiver sets.
33:28 And then it's okay.
33:29 Jalen Polk, when you watch him block at Washington,
33:32 that dude was a beast.
33:33 Like the energy that he brings,
33:35 I really don't see how you keep him off the field
33:38 or away from the formation.
33:39 'Cause one, he can take on
33:41 those really difficult assignments.
33:42 Like he's blocking linebackers,
33:43 he's blocking defensive linemen.
33:45 He's got safeties coming at him with a full head of steam.
33:47 He's standing still and he's like,
33:49 "Bet, give me all you got."
33:50 And he's locking him up.
33:51 Like it's crazy.
33:52 And then he's letting them hear about it.
33:54 That's the kind of thing where I don't know
33:55 if you want to put him at X,
33:57 because then it's all right,
33:58 well, he's not really maybe,
33:59 or most places he's not really going to be involved
34:01 in the run fits.
34:02 Then look at Javon Baker where for me,
34:05 I think he's the only true X
34:07 where like he can line up there the entire game
34:09 and feel comfortable.
34:10 They're going to move these guys around,
34:11 but he's the only true separator, I think,
34:13 outside of Pop Douglas in their susriva room.
34:16 So if we are saying it's KJ Osborne/Kendrick Bourne, Pop,
34:21 maybe they move it around based on the grouping
34:23 where on like third downs, you get Javon out there
34:25 'cause you need someone to beat man-to-man coverage.
34:27 Early downs, you get Jalen Polk out there.
34:29 But I think unless those young guys
34:31 really just doesn't click for him,
34:33 I don't see a world where we're going into December
34:35 and they're not starters,
34:37 or at least heavily in the rotation
34:38 where it's more like we want them to start,
34:40 but they're not quite ready.
34:42 So we're just trying to get the veterans in
34:44 knowing they're more reliable
34:45 while also giving these young guys opportunities.
34:47 - So then what's your guys' prognosis on Juju?
34:50 What happens there?
34:51 - I don't know.
34:52 - Because I don't know.
34:52 - And I want to hear it from you.
34:53 - He's 100% through a complete wrench
34:55 in everything I've been thinking this off season.
34:57 - I actually still have him on the roster as the sixth guy,
35:01 just because that's from conversation,
35:04 but it's also, this is another thing
35:06 I was talking to Andrew about,
35:08 where if you take,
35:10 so the guys who are competing for that sixth spot
35:13 on the wide receiver depth chart,
35:15 because I have the two rookies,
35:17 Demario Douglas, Kendrick Ford, and KJ Osborne on there.
35:20 So you're talking about K'Juan Baker,
35:22 K'Sean Booty, TJ Luther, Jalen Rager,
35:26 Juju Smith-Schuster, and Taekwon Thornton.
35:28 I still think that Juju Smith-Schuster
35:30 has the highest ceiling out of any of those guys
35:32 because we've actually seen him have a 1,400 yard season.
35:36 We've actually seen him have a 900 yard season two years ago.
35:40 We've never seen anything close to that
35:41 from Taekwon Thornton or Jalen Rager or K'Sean Booty.
35:45 So I don't know.
35:47 I think that just as far as depth goes,
35:51 veteran experience, he can play Z, he can play slot,
35:54 probably not going to play a lot,
35:56 but I just personally don't love the other options.
36:00 I don't think Taekwon's going to be on the team this season
36:03 unless he shows a lot this summer.
36:04 I can't see with K'Sean Booty, Jalen Rager.
36:07 I think that his value kind of lessened this year too
36:12 after the kickoff change rule
36:13 where he might not be as good in that role.
36:16 And he did nothing last year.
36:18 Taekwon Thornton did nothing last year.
36:19 I know Juju didn't either, but at least he's done it before.
36:22 And now at least it's a change in offense
36:24 where maybe things click better for him in the new offense.
36:27 And now that he's supposedly fully healthy.
36:29 And with Juju, if it weren't for the game he had
36:31 against Pittsburgh, I would have no,
36:35 like, there in no part of my mind would I think,
36:37 oh yeah, maybe he's actually going to contribute.
36:39 'Cause we did see he made that really good
36:41 contested catch down field on on the thrown ball.
36:43 He had a pretty nice play underneath where it's like,
36:45 okay, maybe he can be that reliable guy
36:48 where is he explosive as Rager and Thornton?
36:50 No, but at least like you said,
36:52 you know what you're going to get out of him.
36:53 Then Thornton, again,
36:54 he just brings a different level of speed.
36:56 Then Rager brings speed and if return value,
36:58 if they view him that way,
36:59 like he still is back there returning kicks and punts.
37:01 So we know he's at least in the mix there,
37:04 but you also know what he is probably at this point.
37:06 Like how much better is Jalen Rager
37:08 going to get on his third team?
37:09 And what is this going to be his fifth season,
37:11 fourth season, something like that.
37:12 So yeah, we definitely can't count Juju out,
37:15 but that's one of my wait and see
37:18 because outside of the guys that we know
37:19 we're going to make the roster,
37:20 it's just going to be guys who prove it and earn it in camp.
37:23 All right, we do have some more questions,
37:25 but first quick word from our friends at game time.
37:27 Be right back.
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38:41 - All right, now let's go to another skill position,
38:46 running backs.
38:47 Has Antonio Gibson purely been doing running back work
38:49 to this point?
38:50 Now, once again, it is very early.
38:52 We saw one practice with the veterans, that's it.
38:55 - And I wasn't there, so I got no clue.
38:57 - But I did catch a snap where we did see split backs
39:02 with Mondre Stevenson and Antonio Gibson in the backfield,
39:05 like we saw last year with Zeke and Mondre.
39:07 But in my opinion,
39:08 Antonio Gibson is way more well-suited in that role.
39:11 I already kind of figured they were going to use him
39:13 in the backfield, in the slot,
39:15 because he has that wide receiver background.
39:16 But we saw a little glimpse of it.
39:18 You know, maybe that'll expand as we go.
39:21 But based on what we saw and what we know from him
39:23 in terms of his profile and his career,
39:25 I would expect him to be like outside in empty formations,
39:29 a little bit of trickery in the slot.
39:30 Like he's going to be more of a weapon, I think,
39:32 than a pure running back for these guys.
39:34 - Yeah, and I think that just early on,
39:37 we're talking about all these wide receivers
39:39 and they have to figure out what they have in these guys,
39:41 where they're going to play,
39:42 like who's going to beat out who, everything like that.
39:44 So I think that some of those formations
39:45 with Antonio Gibson maybe splitting out
39:48 or going to slot, whatever,
39:49 those can kind of wait because he's done in the past.
39:51 He's not going to be doing it full-time.
39:52 So I wouldn't expect to see a lot of that this early on,
39:55 but certainly a possibility, you know,
39:57 once they get to the season
39:59 of them moving Gibson around a little bit more.
40:01 - And in general, in the room,
40:02 they haven't really had that, you know,
40:04 that scat back, receiving back
40:05 since James White retired a couple of years ago.
40:07 So even having that option is a plus.
40:10 And, you know, they're not going to really work that in,
40:13 like you said yet,
40:13 because they still need to figure out
40:15 the depth chart of wide receiver.
40:16 But having someone out of the backfield
40:17 who can be a dump off option,
40:18 who, you know, can actually get you five, six, seven yards
40:21 and maybe break one is key.
40:23 So in general, like I really liked that signing.
40:25 I know that's not really the question,
40:26 but since I didn't see it in person with you guys,
40:28 in general, I like the fact that they brought in
40:30 a receiving back to kind of get this thing rolling
40:32 a little bit.
40:33 - Yeah, 100%.
40:34 I think he's going to be a very sneaky contributor.
40:35 He's not really getting talked about,
40:36 but I think he's someone who has the talent
40:39 and the role that he feels to be really productive for them.
40:42 Now, Doug, we were both standing watching these guys throw.
40:45 So can Joe Milton actually throw a football
40:48 over to him in the mountains?
40:50 - I mean, I guess it depends on the height of the mountain,
40:52 but I wouldn't put it past him.
40:53 Like the ball just comes out of his hand so fast.
40:57 Like he just throws a fastball.
41:00 He throws a line drive every single time
41:02 that the ball is coming out of his hand.
41:04 And like, we were even probably saying it,
41:06 like I feel bad for these guys
41:08 who have to catch the passes during warmups
41:09 because it's not wide receivers.
41:11 It's like, it's not even like scouting assistants.
41:13 It's like equipment interns who are catching these passes
41:16 and their hands are probably like bruised and battered
41:19 after these practices catching passes from Joe Milton.
41:21 Like I genuinely feel for them, but I don't know.
41:25 Like he's got probably the best arm,
41:29 just pure arm strength that I've ever seen
41:31 in a Patriots practice.
41:33 Like the other guys who had crazy arm strength
41:35 were like Ryan Mallett, you know,
41:38 obviously Tom Brady had good arm strength,
41:40 but like Milton is just, it's crazy.
41:43 His fastball is so fast.
41:45 And now at this point it's about harnessing it.
41:48 But when you see him throw in practice,
41:50 you can understand why the Patriots
41:52 did use a six round pick on him,
41:54 because like it's worth seeing what you can do
41:56 with someone who's that talented.
41:58 - I just want to see him try
41:59 and throw it over the lighthouse.
42:01 You mentioned the mountains,
42:02 but we actually have like a high peak
42:05 in that stadium in Augsboro.
42:06 Give that a shot or have someone up there,
42:08 standing up there to try and catch it.
42:09 I wonder if he could reach.
42:11 - We got to talk to the social team
42:12 and see if that's maybe a little segment they can do.
42:14 So if they end up doing it, you heard it here first.
42:18 - Yeah, I mean, literally Tennessee's receivers
42:20 had to wear gloves, like double up on their gloves
42:23 because their hands were just raw from catching these passes.
42:26 And you know, with Drake May,
42:28 I think when you talked about his arm strength,
42:30 sometimes you'd hear that like, it's really good,
42:32 but it's not like elite necessarily.
42:34 And that's no discredit to him.
42:36 'Cause like this guy can be rolling out
42:37 and throw a ball with touch and accuracy,
42:39 like 50, 60 yards down the field.
42:41 He's like A arm strength.
42:44 Joe Milton shows you what an A plus looks like.
42:46 Like that's Josh Allen, that's Justin Herbert,
42:49 that's Matthew Stafford.
42:50 We're just like, oh my God.
42:52 Like I would, I kind of put it as like,
42:55 Drake May is superhuman,
42:57 but those guys are just fallen aliens.
42:58 They are not of this world.
43:00 So can't even throw it over to the mountains.
43:02 We'll talk to the social team.
43:03 We'll see if we can get something going there.
43:05 All right, let's wrap this one up.
43:07 How weird is it covering the team
43:08 now that they aren't operating like the mafia?
43:10 Now, typically I kind of just take these as a joke.
43:13 The reason I put it up is because Juju Smith-Schuster
43:16 did have an interesting comment.
43:17 When he was leaving the field after practice,
43:19 he'd already wrapped up his availability,
43:21 was walking away and then turned back to us
43:24 and made a note saying the vibes in the locker room
43:26 are way better.
43:28 Now, obviously we know there's like a basketball hoop
43:30 in there.
43:31 There was a video of Mike and Wynna riding a bike around.
43:33 That was a little crazy.
43:34 I think the basketball hoop, I kind of like, honestly,
43:36 as long as you're keeping the main thing, the main thing,
43:39 and really just trying to like get some competition,
43:41 obviously, like you really want that to be in every room
43:44 in the facility, that kind of thing.
43:46 That's what I'm cool with.
43:46 But I mean, it definitely seems different.
43:48 Everybody that we've spoken to, like from people on the staff,
43:52 the players, there's very clearly a different vibe
43:54 in the building.
43:55 - And Keon White mentioned too that, you know,
43:57 there's not like, I forget if he said, and I wasn't there,
44:00 but I read it, like less of a hard-ass vibe.
44:02 And then he kind of misses being chewed up
44:03 by Bill Belichick a little bit.
44:04 So like, yeah, I mean, they're talking more.
44:07 Keon White barely spoke last season.
44:09 And for him to come out and say that on day one,
44:11 it goes to show that they're more free.
44:13 They feel more inclined to speak with the media
44:16 and things have, like I remember just the other day
44:19 at rookie mini camp, we were kind of just able to walk out
44:22 on the field and then there was no escorts.
44:23 It didn't feel like you were going through, you know,
44:26 a government building.
44:27 It felt like you were just going to cover a football team.
44:29 And so, look, does it matter?
44:32 Who knows?
44:33 Because if they don't win games, then it's going to be gone
44:34 in a year or two, and it's going to be back
44:36 to something else.
44:37 So sometimes it makes our jobs easier, but you know,
44:41 in general, it's good to see that there are some,
44:42 there are some better vibes.
44:44 - Yeah, the vibes- - Oh, my bad, my bad.
44:47 I'm sorry.
44:48 - Oh, sorry.
44:48 I was just going to say that the vibes were even
44:50 considerably different at like the NFL scouting combine.
44:52 You just saw way more Patriots people out and about
44:56 than you would have in years past because of the shift
45:00 from Bill Belichick to Drodd Mayo.
45:02 I mean, Drodd Mayo is very different from Bill Belichick
45:05 just as a head coach, like chopping up with people
45:07 and everything like that.
45:09 It's even like, it's different in that there's quotes
45:13 from Drodd Mayo coming out from like Albert Breer
45:16 or NFL media when like, you might not necessarily expect
45:20 them to be coming out.
45:21 Suddenly, like there's a Drodd Mayo quote
45:22 that you don't know where it's coming from.
45:23 Like that never happened with Bill Belichick.
45:25 Bill Belichick didn't talk to like anyone on the record
45:28 outside of a press conference.
45:30 So it's certainly a lot different.
45:31 And like you said, Mike, like we don't know
45:33 if this is a good thing.
45:34 We'll find out, but it is a lot different.
45:36 And there's certainly an aspect of it making our jobs
45:39 easier in that respect.
45:41 - I was just gonna say to the Keon White point,
45:42 you know that joke around Twitter where it's like,
45:44 who are two people that match each other's freak?
45:47 Yeah, I guess that's Belichick and Keon White,
45:49 just a couple of hardos who really like to grind.
45:51 And that's a good point.
45:52 We have no idea how this is gonna look,
45:54 how it's gonna turn out.
45:55 There's optimism because when you look at a lot
45:57 of the successful teams, like the Rams are probably
45:59 the best kind of comparison where when you do give players
46:02 more ownership and you treat them like, you know,
46:04 more peers than like your subordinates,
46:06 it's like in the militaristic system, it can work.
46:09 But Sean McVay is not just anybody.
46:10 Like he puts in a ton of work.
46:12 Again, I'm watching games with names
46:13 and Cooper Cupp is talking about how,
46:15 or one of the producers on the show is talking about
46:17 how McVay will literally watch his own speeches to the team
46:20 and like break himself down.
46:22 So like, you know, you do have to be different
46:24 for that kind of thing to work.
46:25 It's not just like, oh, let's just have fun.
46:27 It's a game.
46:28 It's like, no, it's still very much a professional job.
46:30 It just gets to the point where when you're winning,
46:33 everything's fine.
46:34 But when you're losing and only the defense is good,
46:36 then it's kind of hard for the whole team
46:38 to buy into the whole thing where it's like,
46:40 all right, I know I'm busting my ass here,
46:42 but like we're not putting up any points.
46:43 So yeah, that was not exactly jiving.
46:46 But again, it's going to be one of those things.
46:48 Time will ultimately tell.
46:50 Do we have anything in the comments
46:51 before we head out of here?
46:53 - Rosemary Jette in here, actually,
46:57 this was something I've been thinking about a little bit,
46:58 is that like, if things weren't going well in practice,
47:03 Patriots players knew that Bill Belichick
47:04 was going to be reaming them out in the meetings afterwards,
47:07 or they'd all huddle together
47:08 and he'd be cursing them out, like Keon White said.
47:11 I am curious to see how that goes this year,
47:13 whether it's going to be like,
47:14 if Drodd Mayo is going to be maybe more of a hard ass
47:17 in those instances,
47:18 or if they have to rely on some of the veteran players,
47:20 because as far as like veteran players on this roster,
47:23 David Andrews is certainly someone who could do that.
47:24 Jabril Peppers is someone who could possibly do that.
47:27 But otherwise there's not a lot of those typical,
47:30 super respected veteran leaders on this team.
47:33 So I am curious to see how that happens
47:36 when practices aren't going well,
47:38 because there's going to be practices this summer
47:40 that are not going to go well.
47:42 And I think the team is going to have to be reminded
47:44 by someone that it's unacceptable.
47:47 - Taylor, the other day when we were there,
47:48 I think it was you, it was rookie minicamp,
47:50 and there was a false start.
47:52 - That's the whole thing, yeah.
47:54 - Yeah, they just reset the play and Taylor looks at me,
47:56 he's like, "No lap?"
47:57 Like they didn't have to do a lap?
47:58 Last year when-
47:59 - I think it happened in OTAs too.
48:02 There was a false start or an offside and nothing happened.
48:06 So I'm like, I don't know.
48:08 So Jarrod Mayo was a player.
48:09 So that part of me is like,
48:11 do the players just think it's stupid?
48:12 Like it doesn't actually help.
48:13 It's just kind of a thing that you do
48:14 because you're kind of stuck in your ways.
48:17 So I'm curious to see how that goes.
48:19 And with Mayo, like he does come from a family
48:21 with a military background.
48:23 Like he was a captain on this team.
48:25 He was close with Bill.
48:26 So I cannot emphasize enough.
48:29 We need to see how this plays out.
48:30 But for someone like him,
48:31 who was not only just a player under Bill,
48:34 but a leader, both as a player and a coach,
48:36 you hope he's maybe just kind of siphoning out,
48:38 okay, these are the things
48:40 that really did instill discipline.
48:41 And I don't think anybody's acting
48:42 like Jarrod Mayo's this softy or anything.
48:44 Like he's been in charge of the defense.
48:47 Like obviously Steve was doing a lot as well,
48:49 but when it came to meetings,
48:50 like he was running the show
48:52 and the defense has been fine.
48:53 So you would think that he's still gonna do
48:56 what needs to be done and maybe cut out some of the things
48:59 that weren't quite necessary from a player perspective
49:01 and then adapt as things go on,
49:02 maybe tighten up if he needs to.
49:04 But it is interesting because again,
49:06 we literally have already seen an example
49:08 where they commit a penalty
49:09 that was just a heinous mistake under Bill Belichick.
49:12 And he's just like, all right, keep it moving.
49:14 And in rookie mini camp, it was different
49:16 because it's like, all right, this may not be productive.
49:18 Half these guys aren't even gonna be here in a week.
49:20 - They don't know the cadence yet.
49:21 This isn't like something that they're used to all the time,
49:23 stuff like that, for sure.
49:24 - I feel like OT or a training camp will really show us
49:27 like, okay, was this just a thing
49:29 where they're trying to get everybody on the same page
49:30 and it's a lot of new stuff?
49:31 Or are we really gonna see that,
49:34 maybe they should start tightening things up,
49:35 but to be determined once again.
49:38 All right, fellas, great time.
49:39 Thank you, Doug, so much for joining us.
49:41 Please let the people know before we sign off
49:43 where they can find you
49:44 and what great stuff you got coming down the pipeline.
49:46 - Absolutely, yeah.
49:47 You can follow me @dougkyde.
49:49 Keep it on bostonherald.com for all my coverage,
49:52 for all of Andrew's coverage.
49:54 We're gonna have all of your normal OTAs, mini camp,
49:58 Tom Brady, I'm even covering a Celtics game tomorrow,
50:00 so that'll be fun.
50:01 I'll be in the building for that.
50:02 But yeah, just follow me @dougkyde and bostonherald.com.
50:06 Those are the main places.
50:07 - Awesome, Mike, you got anything dropping?
50:09 - New episode of "Behind the Mike" pod dropping at six o'clock
50:12 in 10 minutes with Doug Kyde from the Boston Herald.
50:14 So if you're watching on Twitter, you can stay here
50:16 and we'll have another live stream coming up
50:18 in about 10 minutes.
50:19 So besides that, helping out with Taylor on some Patriots
50:22 coverage for CLNS and Celtics stuff too.
50:24 So follow on Twitter @MikeKyde for all that stuff.
50:27 - That was a beautiful coincidence that-
50:28 - It really was.
50:31 - And for me, just to look out,
50:32 I've been watching a lot of Jalen Polk film.
50:34 There's been some other stuff,
50:35 so it took me a while to get it out,
50:36 but I am going to be posting a breakdown
50:38 of why he could be a really versatile weapon
50:40 for the Patriots.
50:41 I've done one on Drake May, I've done one on Javon Baker.
50:43 So that's gonna be a fun deep dive
50:45 into what we can expect from him.
50:47 Thank you all for watching as always.
50:49 In the meantime, till I see you again,
50:51 take care of yourselves, take care of each other.
50:53 We'll see you next time.
50:54 Peace, y'all.
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