Bobby Manning welcomes Chris Gasper of the Boston Globe to the Garden Report to talk about the Celtics' East Finals opponent, the winner of Pacers vs Knicks Game 7.
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This episode of the Garden Report is brought to you by:
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SportsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:09 Can you say hard hats, folks?
00:11 Hard hats, lunch pails, steel tool boots.
00:14 Anything short of a championship this year is a fail.
00:16 Look at this boomer right here.
00:18 You've just got so much talent here.
00:20 Somebody said we need to apologize for Jalen.
00:22 Can I pull the John?
00:23 What are we apologizing for?
00:25 What did we say?
00:26 What did we do?
00:26 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:34 You like that, Chris?
00:36 I do.
00:36 I do.
00:37 I love the intro.
00:38 Well done, Amit.
00:40 Well done, Amit.
00:41 We love him.
00:43 Here we are, East finals.
00:44 Celtics Pacers on deck.
00:47 I can't believe this is where we are.
00:48 But it is, because the Knicks just physically
00:51 crumbled in that East finals.
00:53 Even up 3-2, they couldn't close it out.
00:56 And insult to injury with Jalen Brunson broken hand
01:00 in the later stages of what was a runaway blowout win
01:03 for this one.
01:04 Probably a game that should put people's antennas up
01:07 a little bit to what the Pacers are capable of here.
01:09 I think a lot of people are probably
01:11 going to look at this series here
01:12 and say it's going to be a walkthrough.
01:15 And it might be, just because the Pacers do not
01:20 have much of a defense at all.
01:22 No real defensive posture on that end.
01:24 So there's certainly a vulnerability there
01:27 that the Celtics can take advantage of and roll through.
01:30 But I do think there's a little bit of respect
01:33 you have to pay for watching a team
01:35 into the late stages of the fourth quarter
01:37 shoot over 70% from the field.
01:41 They started 22 or 27 in that first half, Chris.
01:45 Just silly stuff from them here today, and a great comeback
01:48 to win this series.
01:50 Yeah, you see what the danger point is with the Pacers?
01:53 It's offense, right, Bobby?
01:55 It's offense.
01:55 They're the highest scoring team in the postseason.
01:58 They were the highest scoring team in the regular season,
02:00 had the best offensive rating in the postseason.
02:03 And you're looking at a team that shot 67% from the field
02:06 for the game and 54% from three.
02:09 All their starters scored at least 17 points.
02:11 Hey, how'd you like old friend Aaron Neesmith going
02:14 eight for eight in the game?
02:17 So that's the danger with them is the offense.
02:20 They're capable on a given night of doing
02:22 what they did here in game seven, which is shooting
02:23 the lights out and dropping 130.
02:25 And they're probably going to beat anybody
02:27 when they do that, when they shoot to that degree.
02:29 And you look at the games the Celtics have lost
02:31 in the playoffs.
02:31 It's been Miami and Cleveland shooting the lights out
02:35 from three.
02:35 The Pacers were capable of doing that in multiple games.
02:38 Now, do I think they can do it for four games
02:40 and beat the Celtics?
02:41 I don't.
02:42 I don't think they can do that.
02:43 But you are right.
02:44 People should put some respect on the Pacers' name
02:47 just because of what they can do offensively
02:50 and their depth offensively.
02:52 And I think this will be the toughest series
02:54 the Celtics will face in the East, which let's be honest,
02:57 it's not saying much, but that's the truth.
02:59 I think this will be the toughest series.
03:01 - Yeah, 'cause they're mostly healthy.
03:03 And the way it's gone for the Celtics,
03:05 who knows if that continues.
03:07 They are missing Benedict Matherin,
03:09 who's been out for a while now.
03:10 So they've gotten used to that.
03:12 And pretty much everyone else of importance there
03:14 on that Indiana side is good to go here.
03:17 And that wouldn't have been the case with the Knicks.
03:19 Now I'm mourning Chris, 'cause I just think New York,
03:23 Boston, if there was any health whatsoever
03:25 on that Knicks side, it would have been all time fun.
03:29 Great back and forth between the fans,
03:31 two amazing environments.
03:33 Like I think we just, it reminds me of last year
03:35 when the Celtics and Lakers, when the East and West Finals
03:38 both lost and you ended up with heat nuggets.
03:40 And it was like, oh, so the Celtics are in it,
03:43 which is I guess the difference there.
03:45 But you missed out on Celtics, Knicks.
03:47 And that's crushing.
03:49 And it could happen in one of the coming years here.
03:51 The Knicks are certainly gonna bring back plenty of talent.
03:54 But man, from a storyline perspective,
03:57 from an energy around the series standpoint,
04:00 even us just covering this and trying to garner interest,
04:04 wow, we missed out on something great there, I feel like.
04:08 - Yeah, it's certainly a great situation
04:10 with the Boston-New York rivalry and Tom Thibodeau
04:13 having been basically the defensive coordinator
04:15 for the 2008 Celtics, the last team to win a championship.
04:19 Just a ton of storylines there.
04:20 I mean, even Jalen Brunson, I mean,
04:22 his dad, Rick, is from Salem.
04:24 I went to Rick's basketball camp when I was a kid.
04:27 So there's like all these great connections, right?
04:28 But here's the reality of it.
04:29 I think you're gonna get a better series
04:31 and better basketball with the Pacers.
04:33 Certainly the Knicks have the better brand name,
04:35 but based on all the injuries,
04:36 and look, I give a lot of credit to OG Ananobi
04:38 and Josh Hart for trying to give it a go today.
04:41 And Hart was in the game all the way
04:43 until he fouled out there.
04:44 At the end, OG Ananobi can only give you five minutes,
04:46 but they were such a banged up team
04:48 that while they have the brand recognition,
04:50 I don't know how good the basketball would have been.
04:53 All the ancillary stuff you're talking about,
04:55 yeah, it would have been amazing.
04:56 You know, Boston-New York, Celtics-Knicks,
04:58 all that stuff, Madison Square Garden, TD Garden.
05:00 But I think you're gonna get,
05:02 just from a pure basketball standpoint,
05:03 I think you're gonna get a better series,
05:05 more entertaining series with the Pacers.
05:08 Remember some of those games the Celtics and Pacers played
05:11 during the regular season?
05:12 Like how about when the Pacers eliminated
05:14 the Celtics from the IST?
05:15 How great was that game?
05:16 Or the other game the Celtics lost there
05:18 with Jalen Brown and the call got overturned.
05:21 They played some really exciting games this year.
05:23 And there's a little bit of history, right,
05:25 with the Pacers.
05:26 I mean, the whole, you know,
05:27 Paul Pierce wearing the bandage in a press conference,
05:30 Chuck Person, Reggie Miller versus Larry Bird.
05:32 Larry Bird's face slamming on the floor in the old garden
05:35 and coming back, Willis-Reed style.
05:37 So there is some connection, some rivalry with the Pacers.
05:40 I'm not gonna pretend it's the same as Celtics-Knicks
05:42 because it's not, but I do think there is still
05:45 a little bit of a rivalry here,
05:46 and I think you'll actually get better basketball.
05:48 So I'm sad, but I'm not that sad about it
05:51 based on the state that the Knicks were in
05:53 by the end of their season and the end of this series.
05:56 - Yeah, certainly.
05:57 And you got Nees Smith, you got Rick Carlyle
05:59 who played for the Celtics.
06:00 You got Larry Bird in the middle of this,
06:03 who will probably be visible, at least on the Indiana side.
06:06 I don't think it'll be-
06:07 - And how about Brad Stevens being an, you know,
06:08 Indiana guy?
06:10 You know, they have that angle,
06:11 the whole Brad Stevens, Indiana angle.
06:13 So there'll be plenty of angles here.
06:15 I think the real, let's be honest about it.
06:16 The sad part is a lot of the beat writers
06:19 would rather go to New York than Indianapolis.
06:21 - That's part of it, absolutely.
06:23 (laughing)
06:25 There's no doubt.
06:27 Last time these two teams played, January 30th,
06:31 you mentioned the good games they played
06:33 during the regular season.
06:33 This is probably the only one you can pull from.
06:36 And even this one's tough because Buddy Heald
06:38 was a big part of that Indiana team,
06:39 and they traded him after this one.
06:42 So he's no longer in the picture.
06:43 He was five and nine with 12 in that game,
06:46 three steals, four assists, six rebounds.
06:48 He was awesome for them,
06:48 and then they sent him out to Philadelphia.
06:51 Never replaced him, but Pascal Siakam comes in.
06:54 He just had a fantastic series,
06:56 taking advantage of open paint space against the Knicks.
06:59 And the Celtics have been a little bit vulnerable there,
07:01 vulnerable in transition as well.
07:04 This is the highest pace team that you can imagine playing,
07:07 and that's gonna probably be the key
07:08 to the Celtics in this series,
07:09 is trying to keep the pace at a manageable level
07:12 because they end up pulling out this game, 129-124.
07:16 At one point earlier in the year,
07:18 I think it was the Heald one,
07:19 the no call there that you mentioned,
07:22 they lost a 133 to 131 game to this team.
07:25 And that's the kind of game you can't play against this team.
07:29 If it's up and down, if it's just basket for basket,
07:32 that works in the Pacers' favor
07:34 'cause they, at least on paper, at least statistically,
07:36 they have the better offense in this series.
07:38 - Yeah, it's true.
07:39 Now that game I'm talking about where the call,
07:41 where Jaylen Brown got hit in the head and got overturned,
07:43 Jason Tatum didn't play in that game.
07:45 So the thing I like about this from the Celtics standpoint
07:48 is what the Pacers do best is offense,
07:51 but I still think, particularly if Porzingis comes back,
07:54 that the Celtics have more offensive firepower
07:57 at the end of the day than the Pacers.
07:58 You know, I know the Pacers are a great offensive team
08:00 in all the numbers in the regular season and postseason.
08:03 They are that out.
08:05 But I just have a hard time envisioning them
08:07 beating the Celtics four times by kind of,
08:09 for lack of a better term, out-offensing them.
08:12 I think that's gonna be a challenge
08:14 because the Celtics' offense is as good as it gets
08:16 for my money in the NBA in terms of the depth of options.
08:20 The other thing I think you have to like
08:21 if you're a Celtics fan,
08:22 and I looked this up before we came on,
08:24 go look at the numbers for Tatum and Brown
08:26 against the Pacers this year.
08:28 They averaged basically 61 points per game.
08:31 Like, and I know it's a different team, you know,
08:33 'cause Siakam's here and you can't draw
08:36 from everything in the past during the regular season
08:38 'cause it's a different team.
08:39 I get that.
08:40 But I just sort of question,
08:42 even with old friend Aaron Esmith there and Siakam there,
08:45 do they have the wing defenders to slow down the Jays?
08:47 I don't really think they do.
08:49 - I don't think so either.
08:52 And that's where you miss, Mathren.
08:54 Someone in the chat mentioned here,
08:55 they had Bruce Brown as well,
08:57 who went on that Siakam trade,
08:58 who probably could have been helpful here.
09:01 You got Toppin off the bench, who's not much of a defender.
09:05 Yeah, there's not a lot of perimeter defense here.
09:07 So it's gonna be Nesmith on Tatum and Brown,
09:09 who have basically shoved him to the side
09:12 in a lot of their matchups too.
09:13 He was great in that last game,
09:15 but that's a heavy responsibility for him
09:18 trying to guard both of them at different times here.
09:21 I'm sure Siakam will probably get Tatum,
09:23 at least to start this series.
09:25 And Turner was a pretty good room protector there.
09:28 The most intriguing thing, I think,
09:31 matchup-wise in this series,
09:33 and we've seen it play out in some of the games between them
09:36 is the Pacers, basically on defense,
09:40 go all out on guarding the three.
09:42 It's kind of a weird style
09:43 where they're gonna give up the basket
09:45 and take away the three.
09:46 It's sort of the reverse of how a lot of teams play.
09:49 And the Pacers opponents during the regular season
09:51 shot the fewest threes per game of any team.
09:55 I think like 29 per game, opponents got off against them.
09:58 So that does play to their advantage a little bit
10:01 against the Celtics here,
10:02 but we've seen in different points in the playoffs,
10:04 when teams try to take away the three aggressively,
10:06 like Cleveland just did to some degree,
10:08 the Celtics can go inside and score
10:09 and get to the free throw line.
10:11 So they're gonna have to do that here
10:13 because the Pacers are going all out
10:14 to take those three-point attempts away.
10:16 I think they're capable of it,
10:19 but they're gonna have to shift their mindset
10:22 toward that a little bit.
10:23 - Well, let me ask you this then,
10:24 how important is Chris Tapp's Porzingis
10:27 to play in this series?
10:29 'Cause some people were saying before this,
10:30 "Oh, just let him rest."
10:32 Like they don't even need him
10:33 in the Eastern Conference Finals.
10:34 And I know the WoJ report was
10:36 he'd missed the first two games,
10:37 but the way you're sort of describing the Pacers,
10:40 taking away the three, and it's interesting
10:42 'cause you're right about that strategy
10:44 because during the regular season,
10:45 they tied with Washington
10:47 for the highest field goal percentage allowed in the NBA,
10:50 overall, but you're right.
10:52 A big part of that is,
10:53 "Hey, we'll sell out to take away the threes
10:54 and give up some twos."
10:56 So in your mind, how important is it to get Porzingis,
10:59 who is really supposed to be the answer
11:01 that the Celtics have now
11:02 when somebody tries to play that way?
11:04 - I don't think you need him to win this series,
11:08 but if he's out for the entirety of the series
11:11 or most of it, which is kind of how I'm feeling
11:13 at this point, even just kind of seeing him today,
11:16 mostly just riding the bike, not really on the court.
11:19 We're about to hit that three-point week since the injury.
11:23 It's gonna be a longer series, I think,
11:26 if he's not available, just 'cause as we saw last series,
11:29 the every other day style doesn't work
11:31 to Horford's advantage.
11:33 This is gonna be a series where Horford's probably
11:35 out on the perimeter guarding a lot.
11:37 They probably have to switch a little bit more
11:39 just to cut off some of the pacer shooting
11:42 and just abilities overall offensively.
11:45 So there's gonna be a heavy load on him again
11:48 in this series, and it'll be interesting to see
11:50 how Cornette holds up in this series too.
11:51 Like, is he is able to play against this much shooting,
11:54 this much speed, this small of a team
11:56 across the perimeter out there.
11:58 So if we're looking at like the four-week mark
12:03 being Porzingis sitting out the first three, four games
12:08 of the series, let's say, you could be looking
12:11 at a six-game series here.
12:12 And then at that point, like, does he come back for six?
12:14 Does he come back for a seventh
12:16 if that's gonna happen here?
12:18 You don't want it to get to that point
12:20 because I think the Celtics have that level
12:21 of a talent advantage in this series
12:23 that they should be able to take care of business.
12:26 But if he's not able to get back at all in this series
12:28 which is certainly possible, just given this injury
12:31 and how long it can linger, you're starting to talk
12:34 about a little bit of a touchy series, I feel like, Chris.
12:36 Do you agree?
12:38 - Yeah, I mean, just off on the head of it,
12:40 just looking at it off the jump,
12:42 I would say I think Celtics in six.
12:44 I don't think this is a series-
12:45 - That's kind of how I'm feeling.
12:46 - Yeah, I don't think this is a series
12:48 that they can win in four or five games.
12:49 I have to give the Pacers credit
12:52 for what they can do offensively.
12:53 Poor Zingas, I would like to see him be able to play
12:57 in this series at some point, 'cause I do think,
12:59 not only does it help them in this series,
13:02 but I think you wanna be fully tuned,
13:05 finally attuned when you get to the NBA Finals.
13:07 You don't want him sort of trying to feel his way back
13:09 to playoff basketball in an NBA Finals game.
13:13 And maybe that costs you that one game
13:14 and maybe that's the difference
13:15 between winning the championship or not.
13:17 So I'd like to see him come back if he can,
13:19 physically before that.
13:20 But it is interesting, just what you were talking about,
13:22 with the team that's gonna sell out to take away the three,
13:24 because again, the answer for that was supposed to be
13:28 poor Zingas being able to operate from the post,
13:30 the mid post, the high post,
13:31 being able to give them that versatility.
13:34 And when we've seen Al,
13:35 Al at this point of his career,
13:36 really when he does his best work, as you said,
13:38 it's out on the perimeter.
13:40 It's not in there.
13:42 And how does that affect the Celtics
13:44 in terms of being able to take advantage
13:47 of the pacers?
13:47 You certainly don't want to force threes
13:49 or take a bunch of contested threes,
13:51 even though they can make them.
13:52 That's not what you want to do.
13:54 Obviously they can drive to the basket.
13:56 Jalen Brown's been great at doing that in the post season,
14:00 but you also want to have sort of that other element
14:02 of your offense for spacing.
14:04 And this is one of the things,
14:05 and this is not so much offensively,
14:06 but I'm just thinking about what you were talking about
14:08 defensively with Luke Cornett.
14:09 If I have one kind of small quibble with Joe Mazzuola
14:14 to this point in the playoffs,
14:15 is I've sort of felt there was a point
14:17 that they would need Tillman,
14:19 and he might be a better option than Cornett.
14:22 And I do think there were opportunities
14:24 in the Cleveland series,
14:25 maybe to work him in a little bit more
14:27 so that if you do need him
14:28 in a series like this potentially,
14:30 and he's maybe a better option
14:32 that you feel like you can go to him,
14:34 and he is somebody who is in playoff form,
14:38 playoff shape, playoff mode.
14:40 I think there've been some opportunities
14:42 throughout the playoffs to maybe give him
14:43 a little bit more run and a little bit more of a look.
14:45 I know they're really comfortable with Cornett,
14:47 and he played a really great game in that Cleveland series,
14:50 but I do think you wanna have that.
14:52 There's a reason Brad Stevens went out and got Tillman,
14:56 and I think potentially a series like this
14:57 with the greater mobility he has,
14:59 the greater defensive flexibility he has,
15:02 is one of those reasons.
15:03 - Yeah, I'm gonna try to pull it up quickly here,
15:06 the amount of mid-range shots Indy take,
15:08 'cause the thing that made it work well
15:09 for Cornett last series is that the Cavs
15:11 shot so few mid-rangers.
15:13 I think they shot the lowest frequency of them in the league
15:16 during the regular season.
15:18 I'd have to assume the Pacers shot
15:20 a little bit more than that during the regular season.
15:23 They were probably middle of the league,
15:24 so definitely more than Cleveland
15:26 in terms of shooting over a drop, but still not a ton.
15:30 They're not one of those mid-range heavy teams.
15:32 They're probably more of a three-point shooting team,
15:33 which can still hurt Cornett.
15:35 - How much does that change with Siakam, though?
15:38 'Cause we've talked about those numbers.
15:40 Siakam's kind of a mid-range master, right?
15:43 I mean, that's kind of his game,
15:44 and so they didn't have him all year long.
15:46 So like we've talked about throughout this discussion,
15:49 it's hard sometimes to extrapolate
15:51 some of those Pacers numbers from the season,
15:53 'cause they're a little bit of a different team.
15:54 I'm just thinking of Siakam now,
15:56 like that guy is gonna shoot from the mid-range.
15:59 - Yeah, and they shoot 50% there, which is a good number.
16:03 That's actually highest in the league.
16:05 - Oh, really? - Which is, yeah,
16:06 gonna be interesting to watch there.
16:08 So this isn't a Cornett series to me,
16:10 and I'm a big Cornett fan,
16:11 but he's matchup dependent, certainly,
16:12 and I think you're 100% right, and a lot of the fans agree.
16:16 There had to be opportunities in those earlier series
16:20 to get a look at Tillman.
16:21 And even during the regular season,
16:23 I didn't love that they played him at the four a lot,
16:25 just stashed him in the corner.
16:27 He's not really much of a three-point shooter,
16:29 just historically throughout his career,
16:31 and he was just trying to fit in
16:32 as a corner three-point shooter there.
16:34 I like the idea of him at a five.
16:36 I think he can seal off a smaller guy,
16:38 finish over him inside.
16:39 He's talked a little bit about how he's got post moves
16:42 he can go to, and he liked the opportunity
16:44 to be able to post up a little bit here.
16:45 So if you're gonna use him in this series,
16:47 I'd like to see him actually sub in for Horford,
16:50 not sub in alongside him and try to play bigger,
16:53 because I think that'll hurt you
16:54 from a speed perspective in this series too,
16:56 if you're trying to play those two guys together out there.
16:58 So you can go to him.
17:00 You know, I think that won't be a crazy move
17:03 to make at that point,
17:04 even if he didn't play a ton earlier in the playoffs.
17:06 I think he's gotta be ready to go in this spot.
17:08 And part of it's gotta be on him
17:10 to play a little bit better too,
17:11 because I don't feel like he played amazing in those spots.
17:13 Certainly dealing with some knee stuff
17:15 and maybe some other physical ailments
17:17 that were lingering from the regular season there.
17:18 So I wonder if that's a part of it,
17:20 but he's gonna be a factor in this series,
17:22 or at least I think he needs to be
17:24 for them to match up here and survive this Porzingis loss.
17:28 And I'll ask you,
17:29 'cause my antenna is starting to go up a little bit here,
17:32 'cause you hear it's like 21, 17 days for Porzingis.
17:35 We're kind of past that point now.
17:38 Mersuul is not talking about it.
17:39 I don't think that's a red flag or anything like that,
17:43 'cause I think some coaches just don't talk about injuries.
17:45 We've certainly seen that fair share of coaches around here
17:47 just not address them.
17:49 But at what point in this series,
17:52 especially with him being ruled out
17:53 the first couple of games already,
17:55 especially with Giannis having that three, four timeline
17:59 with that and really after four weeks still not being close,
18:02 as he mentioned after their season ended,
18:04 are you starting to get at least a little bit worried
18:07 that this Porzingis thing might linger
18:08 a little too long here for them?
18:10 - Oh, it's a good point.
18:13 You know, it's funny.
18:14 I have to be honest, you're on the beat.
18:15 You're around them all the time.
18:17 I'm not.
18:18 So initially I was like, oh,
18:20 when he first suffered the injury against Miami
18:22 and they said it's not as bad as we think,
18:23 and then it sort of like stabilized.
18:25 So I was like, all right,
18:26 we're not gonna see him till the finals.
18:28 Then all of a sudden he was like out there shooting
18:30 and it would seem like super positive.
18:32 And I was thinking, oh, he won't play against Cleveland,
18:35 but I think he'll be ready for the Eastern Conference finals.
18:38 Then the Woj report comes out.
18:40 He's not gonna play in the first couple of games.
18:42 And now you're telling me
18:43 he didn't really do much at practice.
18:44 So now it seems to be trending
18:45 in a completely opposite direction from at the beginning,
18:49 when they were like, oh, we dodged a bullet
18:51 and it wasn't as bad as we thought.
18:53 It's come almost full circle to where I'm questioning
18:57 whether he's gonna be ready before the NBA finals.
19:00 And that would be disappointing to me,
19:02 not because of anything he's doing,
19:03 and injury is an injury.
19:05 But just I was hopeful that he could come back
19:08 in the Eastern Conference finals.
19:09 For the reason I said before,
19:11 that I think there is still an element
19:13 when you miss this much time
19:14 and it's the most intense pressure pack basketball
19:18 of the year to jump back into it and just say,
19:21 oh, it's automatically like riding a bike
19:23 and you're gonna be great
19:24 and you're gonna be fully optimized right out of the gate.
19:27 I just don't think that's realistic.
19:29 Like as much as we deal with the numbers in today's NBA,
19:32 these guys are still human beings
19:34 and human nature is if you take some time off,
19:36 you're gonna be a little bit rusty.
19:38 Maybe your conditioning is not what it was,
19:40 the speed of the game,
19:41 it could take you a little while to get used to.
19:43 And so what I don't want is him jumping in in the finals
19:46 without any experience
19:47 and maybe he plays a game that's not great
19:50 and they end up losing a game in that series
19:53 and their margin for error is lower
19:55 and the series goes seven and you end up losing
19:57 because if Porzingis had played,
19:59 if his first game back had been able to be in another series
20:03 and he had shaken off that rust
20:04 and didn't have a rust game in the finals,
20:06 you wouldn't have lost that one game
20:07 and maybe you end up winning the whole thing.
20:09 So, maybe that's overthinking it,
20:12 but really if he's good enough to go
20:15 and the chances of re-injury are not,
20:16 like if he gets to 85, 90%
20:20 in this Eastern Conference Final Series,
20:22 I wanna see him out there
20:23 so that he can figure out what he can do,
20:25 what he can't do with this injury,
20:27 shake off the rust, be good to go.
20:29 And by the time they get to the finals,
20:31 at least they know and he knows what he's dealing with.
20:33 Like, if you're Mazzullo,
20:34 wouldn't you wanna know ahead of time,
20:36 like, oh man, Porzingis is never gonna be 100% again
20:39 the rest of the postseason.
20:40 He's not gonna be the player
20:42 that he was for us most of the year.
20:43 We're gonna have like about 65% of KP
20:46 and I have to coach around that
20:47 as opposed to finding that out
20:49 in like game two of the finals
20:50 and trying to adjust from there.
20:51 - That's true if you're going against Jokic at that point,
20:53 'cause when they played Jokic during the year,
20:56 their strategy has been to put Porzingis on him.
20:58 So, he's getting thrown out there against Jokic,
21:00 who's averaging like 40, 15 and 15.
21:03 And he's gotta do that while carrying the load
21:07 that he does offensively.
21:08 Now, he's talked about wanting to return at a historic rate.
21:11 That's still kind of the talk around the team
21:13 is that he's pushing, he's pushing,
21:14 he wants to be out there.
21:16 So, I think he's doing everything he can.
21:18 And if he's back four weeks later,
21:21 next week for a game three or four,
21:23 you feel good about that.
21:24 I'm just anticipating us getting to that point
21:27 and maybe he's still not quite there,
21:30 hasn't done enough in practice,
21:31 hasn't done enough work to get on the floor at that point.
21:35 Because here we are three weeks later
21:36 and it doesn't seem at least,
21:39 I've asked Joe a couple of times,
21:40 has he done the three on three?
21:41 Has he done the four on four?
21:42 Stuff like that, contact and there's really nothing there.
21:45 So, we don't have a ton to go off of
21:47 other than that Woods report,
21:48 which said the hope is that he can play later in the series.
21:51 And that's not concrete, right?
21:53 They're hopeful he can play later in the series.
21:55 It's not great 'cause going back to that Giannis injury,
21:59 the same exact injury, same talk,
22:02 like he's out there, he's shooting,
22:03 you see him on the floor, he's doing some stuff,
22:06 but he's not practicing, he's not going, he's not close.
22:10 And then I think his words after that series
22:13 were like, he was like 30, 40%,
22:15 to use the percent thing there.
22:16 So, that was four weeks after his injury
22:19 against the Celtics there at the end of the regular season.
22:21 So, it's a concern here and you would hate,
22:25 again, they shouldn't lose to the Pacers
22:26 'cause they don't have poor Zingis here,
22:28 but you would hate to get to the end of this season
22:31 and say, ooh, they lost 'cause they didn't have poor Zingis
22:34 'cause they've sustained it so far.
22:36 They've shown that they can win without him
22:39 throughout the whole season, regular and post season.
22:42 And then if they get into a matchup
22:43 and he's just not quite ready to go,
22:45 or like you said, he gets out there
22:46 and he's just not ready for that level of intensity
22:49 yet at that point, that's tough.
22:51 And so, I do wanna get in a little bit of Horford here
22:54 because obviously he's gonna carry another heavy load
22:57 in this series with poor Zingis' health for however long he is.
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24:11 After last series, Chris,
24:12 obviously he had the breakout game six.
24:15 Just incredible, a real moment,
24:16 probably my favorite moment of this postseason run so far
24:19 was that Horford game, 22, 15 and five, just ridiculous,
24:22 especially after what he did two days prior,
24:25 really struggling, missing 11 straight threes
24:27 between games three and five.
24:30 He's gonna have to play significant minutes again here.
24:33 Every other day, as I mentioned,
24:35 is how the series is scheduled.
24:36 So there's no longer layoffs between these games.
24:39 And again, Porzingis expected to miss
24:40 the start of this series.
24:42 What's your confidence level in Horford
24:45 being able to uphold this workload deep
24:48 into the playoff side, 38, 37, 38?
24:52 - I would say it's probably about 50%.
24:56 I don't think you're gonna get,
24:58 no one's expecting him to score 22 points every night,
25:00 but I also think realistically,
25:01 you're not gonna get Al's best every night.
25:03 I just think at this stage of his career,
25:06 he's not really built for that in a series
25:08 that's every other night.
25:09 If he can give you really strong defense
25:13 in six out of seven games of a series,
25:16 I think that's more important
25:18 than what he does offensively.
25:19 I mean, it's so funny, you mentioned game five.
25:22 After he missed, I think it was his first three
25:23 he missed in that one, or the first two or whatever it was,
25:26 he had missed like 14 straight threes across the series.
25:30 And then he ended up having a great game.
25:31 So he's a confident guy.
25:33 Obviously he kept shooting and he had that kind of night.
25:36 I'm not as much worried again about his offense.
25:38 It's just defensively,
25:40 I think he's gonna be really important in this series.
25:42 And can he keep up?
25:44 Can he cover as much ground as he needs to cover?
25:47 I thought he was great towards the end of that series
25:50 and particularly in game five,
25:51 when he got switched out on Darius Garland
25:54 and was able to stay in front of him or block his shots
25:58 and do stuff like that.
25:58 But I still think if you're Rick Carlisle and the Pacers,
26:01 you're gonna test Al Horford.
26:04 You're gonna tell, you know, can't,
26:05 will he be able to get out
26:06 and contest stuff on the perimeter?
26:09 Will, if you switch off, you know,
26:10 will he be able to stay in front of guys?
26:12 Will he be able to do it?
26:13 And I think you're also gonna say,
26:15 I know they don't wanna give up threes,
26:16 but if you are gonna give up a three,
26:18 you're probably gonna give it up to Al
26:20 and make him make shots.
26:22 So I think that they're gonna need him to play well
26:24 in this series to be able to win this series,
26:27 you know, primarily on the defensive end,
26:29 but they will need some offensive contribution
26:32 at this point.
26:33 This was always sort of the concern, right?
26:34 About the front court for the Celtics.
26:38 When you have Horford at his age
26:40 and you have Porzingis with his injury history,
26:43 it's a little bit perilous, right?
26:46 It's a little bit fragile.
26:47 It's a fragile front court overall.
26:49 And this was kind of the concern that you had.
26:52 I don't wanna say it's worst case scenario
26:54 'cause we anticipate Porzingis will be back.
26:56 Worst case scenario would be some season ending injury,
26:59 but this was the scenario that I think a lot of people
27:01 envision at some point,
27:02 which was Porzingis not available.
27:05 And you're asking Al who really wore down
27:07 in last year's playoffs,
27:08 like really wore down after that Philadelphia series
27:11 to be able to go out there and carry a load.
27:14 And can he do it?
27:16 - Yeah.
27:16 And part of surviving out there
27:18 is being a threat offensively too.
27:20 So he's just gotta at least do that.
27:22 And it's gonna be weird against Indy
27:25 'cause Cleveland, they drop back, they let him shoot.
27:29 Miami, similar deal.
27:30 Like teams were willing to just back off him.
27:32 I feel like the Pacers are actually gonna try
27:34 to run him off the line a little bit
27:36 and take away the three from him.
27:37 And can he make them pay in that circumstance?
27:39 Like they just sort of scramble around defensively.
27:42 There's not a lot of rhyme or reason in what they do
27:44 other than taking that three away.
27:46 And that's a huge opportunity for Tatum and Brown.
27:49 Brown's been fantastic.
27:50 I mean, he shot 59% in that last series,
27:52 which was just silly.
27:54 Tatum, of course, struggling with his shot
27:55 throughout the playoffs.
27:57 So this is a real opportunity for them to get going here.
27:59 And if they're struggling against this defense,
28:02 which as we mentioned,
28:03 doesn't have a lot of perimeter defenders
28:05 or size out there.
28:06 Turner's a good rim protector.
28:08 But other than that,
28:09 there's not gonna be a lot
28:10 between Tatum, Brown and the basket.
28:12 You start to get worried at that point
28:14 that they're just really struggling right now.
28:16 And it's not just a bad shooting spell
28:19 or whatever we've kind of said to this point.
28:21 This is the kind of series where Tatum's gotta step up
28:24 and score close to 30 points a game
28:26 because it's gonna be single coverage.
28:28 It's gonna be knee Smith.
28:29 It's gonna be those guards on him.
28:31 You gotta make Halliburton pay out there,
28:33 make him work.
28:35 'Cause he's gonna be doing everything on the offensive end.
28:37 So you want him working defensively too.
28:39 So this is a series where there's really no more excuses
28:42 for Tatum in particular.
28:43 I'm not even gonna whoop Brown in there
28:45 because he's been great for the most of this run.
28:48 This is a big series for Tatum
28:49 to finally show his scoring prowess.
28:53 - Yeah, I mean, I really liked what I saw from him.
28:56 You know, obviously I was pretty critical of him
28:57 through the first seven games of the postseason overall,
29:02 just 'cause the standard's really high.
29:04 He's one of the best players in the league.
29:05 And it's not like he was playing terrible basketball.
29:09 - No, no.
29:10 His okay is like most guys, great.
29:13 But you expect him to be great.
29:15 And I thought the last three games of that series,
29:18 he imposed his will there.
29:19 You know, he averaged more than 30 points per game.
29:22 Game five was his highest shooting percentage
29:25 in the postseason, nine of 16.
29:26 The threes still aren't going in, which is kind of weird.
29:29 And that's a trend on the last two postseasons.
29:31 He has not shot well from three, which is bizarre to me.
29:34 I don't know what's going on with that.
29:37 But yes, I agree with you.
29:39 You know, he really has to make Indiana pay in this series
29:43 and he has to force them to make some tough,
29:45 I think, decisions defensively
29:47 in terms of what they want to do
29:48 and open it up for some other guys.
29:50 And it's hard to score 30.
29:52 You know, I'm not expecting him to score 30 points
29:54 every game.
29:55 It's just when they need it, he has to deliver.
29:57 And I think overall, greater offensive efficiency.
30:00 And the thing that I liked about the last three games
30:03 when he shot, you know, 44% from the field
30:05 and averaged about 30 a game,
30:07 was the rebounds and assists actually went up
30:09 from the prior seven games.
30:11 And that was my whole thing.
30:12 You know, people were saying, well, you know,
30:14 you're a casual, you're like not watching what he's doing.
30:16 He's doing all this other stuff.
30:18 And I'm like, he's a great player.
30:19 He can do that stuff and score.
30:21 And I just think it was interesting
30:23 that when he started getting his scoring mojo back,
30:25 his boards and assists actually went up
30:28 in those three games.
30:29 So he can do it all.
30:30 And this is one of those series,
30:31 you should walk away from this series saying,
30:34 Jason Tatum was clearly the best player on the floor
30:36 in this series.
30:38 - Yeah. I mean, you understand Mitchell outplaying him
30:40 'cause Mitchell's capable of that at his best.
30:42 You understand if Jimmy was doing that round one,
30:45 'cause we've seen it before from Jimmy.
30:48 Halliburton I love,
30:49 and we should probably talk a little bit about him.
30:51 Just a phenomenal performance today.
30:53 Chirping to the crowd, in shots.
30:57 The passing from him is just out of this world.
30:59 He's one of my favorite,
31:00 probably one of my five favorite players
31:01 in the league right now, Tyrese Halliburton.
31:03 And you know, to wrap up Tatum real quick,
31:05 he averaged 33, you mentioned this earlier,
31:07 33, 11 and six against him during the regular season.
31:10 58 from the field, 49 from three,
31:13 got to the free throw line 24 times.
31:17 Though the numbers should be close.
31:20 Again, he doesn't need to score 30 a game,
31:23 but they should be over 25 in this series at least.
31:26 - No, I totally agree with you on that.
31:28 And I love Halliburton too.
31:29 I'll say the year he was drafted,
31:31 I was praying he would drop to the Celtics.
31:33 - He dropped past a lot of teams.
31:35 - He did, he did.
31:37 I wanted him to drop to the Celtics so badly.
31:40 Obviously that didn't happen.
31:41 He lands in Sacramento,
31:42 they make the trade for Damanis Sabonis.
31:45 But he, before, I'll tell you what,
31:47 before he got injured this season,
31:49 he was having like an incredible,
31:51 he was kind of like making the leap before he got injured.
31:55 And just what he did today,
31:56 it was funny because they were talking on the broadcast
31:58 about how he needed to be more aggressive
32:00 in that first quarter.
32:01 And then from that point on,
32:02 he just went off in that first quarter.
32:05 - Yeah, and you got to give him credit
32:07 'cause he's the engine for this team.
32:08 And they have Siakam now too,
32:09 so they can probably survive the minutes he's off the floor
32:12 a little better now than they could previously.
32:15 But last year they were sixth seed for a lot of the season
32:19 based on what he was doing.
32:20 And then he ran into some injuries again.
32:22 They probably held him out
32:23 for the later portion of that year,
32:25 just based on where they were.
32:26 And they just fell off the map right back into the lottery.
32:29 And that's the level,
32:31 when we talk about MVP,
32:32 that's the kind of stuff I value most.
32:34 Like if you're not on the floor,
32:36 your team just completely falls apart.
32:38 And that's why I'm a big Yokoch guy in that regard.
32:41 I think Halliburton, if he played more this year,
32:43 if he had a better second half,
32:44 should have been like that Brunson Tatum territory
32:47 of MVP this year.
32:48 And maybe it will be one day,
32:49 but again, that injury derailed them.
32:51 Up until that injury, as you just mentioned,
32:54 he was averaging 24 game, 12 and a half assists per game,
32:58 shooting 40 from three on eight attempts
33:00 and 50 from the field.
33:02 Some real like Steve Nash kind of stuff from him,
33:06 I feel like is like a good comparison.
33:07 He's just an engine out there unto himself
33:10 and not the best defender.
33:12 So you're gonna be able to go at him a little bit there.
33:15 Size probably an issue on that end a little bit,
33:17 strength and consistency for him,
33:20 a little bit of an issue too this post-season.
33:22 He's had some great games.
33:23 He's had some really shaky games.
33:25 So they can't survive his shaky games
33:27 and they're just gonna have to make it hard on him.
33:29 That's really all it comes down to
33:31 and they're good at that.
33:32 So that's gotta be something you feel confident
33:34 about coming into the series is their ability to key in
33:37 on the other team's best player
33:38 and their ability to make them work on defense.
33:41 - Yeah, absolutely.
33:42 I mean, again, I think he's probably
33:45 a better defender than this,
33:46 but I sort of think about what the Celtics did
33:48 to Tyler Hero in the first round,
33:50 how hard they made him work on defense
33:52 and how that ultimately ended up sort of affecting
33:54 his offense and how they were hunting him out.
33:56 Halliburton's a better defender than that.
33:58 He had a really nice steal on Vincenzo early in this game
34:02 that got overturned on replay.
34:04 He is a guy that can be opportunistic
34:06 with the steals and stuff,
34:07 but he's a little bit of a gambler, I think.
34:09 It doesn't always stay in front of guys.
34:11 So make him work.
34:13 And I would say, Bobby,
34:14 not just physically make him work defensively,
34:16 but make him work mentally.
34:18 'Cause I think that sometimes defensively he loses focus
34:22 in terms of what the coverage is
34:24 or what he's supposed to be doing
34:25 or what the other team's trying to do offensively
34:28 and where he needs to be.
34:30 He's a guy that I feel like sometimes
34:32 can just kind of get lost in the mix.
34:34 He will lose focus on the defensive end.
34:36 So I think make him work physically.
34:37 - I think he overthinks things a little bit out there.
34:38 And there was a little talk on the broadcast of that
34:40 even today, like him just kind of being in his own head
34:43 during this series and during this post-season.
34:45 It's his first post-season effectively here.
34:47 - No, I agree.
34:49 Totally.
34:50 No, I think, and that's what I'm saying.
34:52 Make him process on both ends of the court
34:55 and make him process things defensively
34:58 and maybe sort of get in his own head and get,
35:01 so he's hesitant.
35:02 He's not sure where to be.
35:03 He's kind of trying to process instead of just play.
35:07 So I think if you do that
35:08 and you put that burden on him on that end,
35:10 that could maybe help you in terms of trying
35:12 to slow him down offensively.
35:14 The thing I like about the Pacers just overall,
35:16 and Halliburton is the engine of this,
35:18 but if you look at them in the post-season,
35:20 they have the highest assist percentage.
35:22 They have the best assist to turnover ratio.
35:24 So it's not just Halliburton.
35:26 They move the ball pretty well.
35:28 And with Rick Carlisle as sort of their offensive architect,
35:31 they just seem to make the right play a lot of times.
35:34 The shots don't always go down for them,
35:37 but they do seem to move the ball and make the right play.
35:40 So that's something that I do have to give
35:42 the Pacers credit for overall.
35:44 And the Celtics might have to dig in a little bit more
35:47 or maybe a little bit longer on certain possessions
35:50 than they have had to do throughout this post-season run,
35:52 just because of the Pacers' penchant for running
35:55 their offense and being able to make the right play,
35:58 even under duress.
36:00 - That's gonna be my favorite thing,
36:01 the coaching matchup in this series,
36:03 the contrast between Rick, who just fires off timeouts
36:07 like he has 40 of them,
36:09 and Joe, who never, ever calls them.
36:12 That's a funny contrast in these games
36:15 that they've played through this year.
36:16 They've played five times this year.
36:18 So there's a little bit of a thing there.
36:21 They've seen each other a lot.
36:23 They've played some good games.
36:24 I think there's gonna be some good games in this series,
36:27 certainly here too.
36:28 Number two on that list is Neesmith,
36:30 who it's just great to watch him out there doing this.
36:34 Isn't it?
36:35 I really like it.
36:35 I got to know him a little bit while he was here.
36:37 He came on our show at one point.
36:39 He's a great guy.
36:41 He is just being around him.
36:42 He's got like a fire to him too,
36:44 that you really didn't see come out until he got traded.
36:47 And he certainly has taken that personally.
36:49 And a couple of guys on that side have said as much.
36:52 A for eight today, as you mentioned,
36:55 he's inconsistent still.
36:57 He sort of goes as a shot does to some degree
37:00 on the offensive end,
37:01 but defensively, he's always just going 100.
37:06 His motor's just massive.
37:07 He's put on so much weight too.
37:10 He's got a great frame at this point
37:11 since he moved over there.
37:13 And he's a starting caliber player
37:15 in this league at this point.
37:16 And he's certainly gonna wanna get back at Boston
37:18 in this series.
37:19 But I love that component to this here,
37:21 even though we lose a lot of the juice of the New York thing
37:24 as we talked about earlier.
37:25 Nismith's gonna try to make up for that.
37:27 And the Celtics have made it tough on him.
37:29 He's had a tough time standing in front of Brown and Tatum
37:32 defensively.
37:33 But that last game he played against them,
37:34 he had 26-12-7, which was incredible to see.
37:38 He had a look at a game tying three late in that game too,
37:40 the white block.
37:42 So I'm excited to see what he's capable of in this series.
37:44 And I don't think anyone's gonna look back at it
37:47 and say like, oh man, they shouldn't have traded him.
37:49 'Cause you get Bragdon, then you get Holladay.
37:51 But I do think the second guess is he had this in him.
37:55 Could you have given him more opportunity?
37:57 Could you have developed him a little better
37:59 after drafting him?
38:00 And that's on two coaches,
38:02 and Emeigh who really didn't have a lot of trust for him
38:04 and Joe certainly didn't either in that first year there.
38:07 So, oh wait, no, that was on Emeigh, yeah.
38:11 'Cause he got traded after that last Emeigh year.
38:12 So I love the Nismith thing.
38:16 I don't know, where are you at on him?
38:18 - Yeah, no, I liked him.
38:19 I was excited when the Sellers got him.
38:20 That was the pick that I wanted.
38:22 He was technically a lottery pick in the draft.
38:27 And I always liked him.
38:29 It was hard for him, I think, to duplicate.
38:31 It has been hard for him to duplicate the shooting,
38:34 particularly from three,
38:35 that he had his last year at Vanderbilt.
38:38 But he shot the three ball pretty well
38:40 during this year, 42%.
38:41 He has not shot well in the post season,
38:44 which is other than today.
38:46 He has not really shot the basketball very well.
38:48 Going to today, he was only shooting 38% from the field
38:51 and only 27.9 from three, which is,
38:55 and that speaks to what you're saying
38:56 in terms of how streaky he is.
38:58 But for a guy who was really an offense first player
39:01 in college, the way he's been able to remake himself
39:03 in the NBA, the whole crash persona
39:06 and how hard he plays as a hustle guy,
39:08 defense guy, can knock down shots.
39:11 He's accepted the role player role and he's gotten better.
39:14 And again, you're right, you can't question the trade,
39:18 but I do wish they'd given him more
39:19 of an opportunity to develop.
39:21 And I think he'll definitely have something to prove
39:24 in this series going up against the Celtics.
39:26 And that will clearly be one of the subplots of this series.
39:30 More so for him, as you mentioned, on defense,
39:32 he's not been great against the Jays,
39:34 but he's gonna get that assignment.
39:35 And it's kind of the little brother, big brother thing.
39:38 You're the little brother and you get beat up on,
39:40 you get beat up on, you get beat up on,
39:42 but you keep coming back, you keep coming back.
39:44 And all of a sudden one day you can stand your ground.
39:47 I think if you're a Celtics fan,
39:48 you're hoping this is not the one day
39:50 that Aaron Esmith is able to stand his ground,
39:53 that it doesn't happen in this series.
39:56 - Well, that's when I got for you on this series.
39:58 And usually I save this for the end
39:59 'cause it's really at the bottom of importance,
40:01 but it is interesting in this series a little bit,
40:04 the benches.
40:05 We will talk a little bit about Cornette.
40:07 Pritchard's been fantastic.
40:09 - He's been great.
40:09 - I mean, he shot 53 from the field
40:10 and 50 from three last series.
40:12 So that's an advantage for you there.
40:14 We'll see what the bigs.
40:16 Hauser's been okay this postseason,
40:18 nothing that jumps off the page.
40:21 So you look at Indiana's bench and it's Obi Toppin,
40:24 who I think is just such a great energy player
40:26 who showed a level of skill in this series too,
40:28 making a lot of shots.
40:30 TJ McConnell, who's just, I mean, McConnell-Pritchard
40:34 is gonna be like looking in the mirror there.
40:36 - I was gonna say that.
40:38 I agree with you, you nailed it.
40:40 - Those two guys have like the same game.
40:42 And McConnell, if they are gonna try to put someone small,
40:45 smaller and pesky, but with a level of defensive skill
40:49 in front of a Brown or Tatum,
40:50 he's gonna be an interesting guy in that regard.
40:52 And then Isaiah Jackson, who's a solid rim running center
40:57 that brings a level of physicality too
40:58 that they'll probably have to utilize here.
41:00 So shorter benches on both sides,
41:02 up and down results on both ends so far.
41:08 But I do feel like that might be a small edge for Indy
41:11 and it's gonna matter in some of the games in this series,
41:13 probably, I think, what kind of minutes and contributions
41:15 those guys are gonna be able to give you,
41:17 especially with what we talked about with Porzingis
41:19 and Horford earlier on that center position.
41:22 - No, I agree with you on that, Bobby.
41:25 Another guy I'll throw in there for Indy is Ben Shepard.
41:27 I think that he's been getting more minutes.
41:29 He's a guy who was a great shooter in college.
41:32 He can knock down some shots,
41:33 obviously young player, inconsistent,
41:35 but that's another guy.
41:37 He's maybe sort of like their Hauser in some ways,
41:41 not as established as Hauser, obviously,
41:43 but that sort of thing there.
41:45 I don't really think either side
41:47 has a clear bench advantage here.
41:49 Maybe like you said, slight advantage.
41:52 Indy, McConnell's playing so well right now,
41:54 but so is Pritchard.
41:55 But I think the story of this series
41:57 will ultimately be the starters.
41:59 It'll be the starters, the Celtics' sort of big five
42:02 versus what Indy's putting out there
42:04 in their five as the starters.
42:05 I think that will ultimately determine what this series is.
42:10 And we've spoken about this.
42:12 Indy offensively, they are capable of winning
42:16 one or two games in this series.
42:18 And so then if the Celtics were to give away,
42:20 let's say the Celtics give away another game somehow
42:22 by not playing well,
42:24 then you look at it and you could be in a seven game series,
42:27 which is not what you wanna be in in this case.
42:30 So I do think over, a lot of people were talking,
42:33 and there was a lot of debate, legitimate debate.
42:35 What was the better opponent for the Celtics?
42:37 Which team should the Celtics wanna play?
42:41 I was pretty adamant that it was the Knicks.
42:43 They should want to play
42:44 just 'cause the Knicks were so beat up,
42:46 didn't have a lot of depth,
42:47 although Alec Burks went crazy today in that game.
42:50 Whereas I look at Indy and I just feel like Indy
42:53 is healthier, they're more potent overall,
42:57 and I think they're more capable of sort of sticking
43:00 in a series with you for a longer period of time
43:04 and longer games.
43:05 Because when I look at Indy, and yes,
43:07 the offensive rebounding for the Knicks
43:09 in the post-season was absolutely fantastic.
43:12 But when I looked at the Knicks overall,
43:14 they played so hard and I appreciate that,
43:16 but I was like, what is the one great thing the Knicks do?
43:19 I guess you could say it was the offensive rebounding,
43:22 but they just play really hard to me.
43:24 Whereas I look at Indy and what's the one thing they do
43:26 in an elite level?
43:27 Offense, they're an elite offense.
43:29 Their offense is elite.
43:31 So that's what Indy's bringing into this series
43:34 where I sort of felt like the Knicks didn't really bring
43:36 any particular one elite area of the game
43:39 that would give the Celtics trouble over the course
43:42 of a six or seven game series.
43:43 Whereas I feel like with Indy, the offense at least
43:45 has the potential to do that.
43:48 - Yeah, and I do think of the rebounding a little bit too,
43:50 'cause you mentioned it there.
43:52 They're gonna be able to defend their defensive glass.
43:54 'Cause I think in moments, the Celtics are great
43:56 on the offensive glass too.
43:58 And as I look at it here, Indy is 14th out of 16
44:03 playoff teams at defensive rebounding.
44:05 So that could be an advantage for the Celtics here too.
44:08 But you mentioned it, 122 is the Pacers offensive rating,
44:13 119 for Boston.
44:15 So there's a real gap between those two teams offensively
44:19 and the pace they wanna play at too.
44:22 Certainly here, pretty sizable too.
44:24 Celtics have the slowest pace in the playoffs right now.
44:28 - Really, I didn't know that.
44:29 Does that surprise you?
44:30 I mean, you've covered the team all year long.
44:32 I didn't know that.
44:33 So to me, that's kind of surprising.
44:35 - I think it's a little bit matchup based.
44:38 I think the Cavs wanna play slow
44:40 and you end up in that kind of series.
44:41 And the Heat too, a slower paced team,
44:44 two more defensive oriented series.
44:47 So I don't think it's 'cause the Celtics ran into a halt,
44:50 but there were moments in those series
44:51 where the offense stagnated a little bit.
44:54 Impressive through all of that and Tatum struggles
44:56 and everything that they're still second offensively
44:58 in the postseason.
44:59 And they've used their defense as a real weapon at times.
45:02 I think the turn into offense.
45:03 So they should win this series.
45:06 They should certainly be favorites in this series.
45:09 I think they have a lot of advantages in this series,
45:12 but the pacers actually have bodies, depth,
45:15 a star in Haliburton and a style
45:19 that can make them competitive here.
45:21 And even though I'm heartbroken about New York
45:22 not getting here, I'll take it for the basketball
45:27 because I think it's gonna be a much better series
45:29 than we would have seen if, I mean,
45:31 could you imagine if Brunson went down and they won today
45:33 and it was that crew coming out there,
45:36 Alec Burks and whoever's left.
45:38 - Yeah, Alec Burks, Deuce McBride.
45:42 I mean, it's just, look, credit to the Knicks.
45:44 They maximize what they had, unfortunate with the injuries,
45:47 but I really do think it's a tougher series
45:50 for the Celtics, but if you like basketball,
45:52 I think it's gonna be a better series for the Celtics.
45:54 And I know we didn't touch on this, but look,
45:57 when you look at this overall for the Celtics,
45:59 there is some element, at least in my mind,
46:01 of when you get out of the East,
46:02 you do wanna be as prepared as you can be
46:05 for what you're gonna face in the West
46:06 and probably for some closer games.
46:08 And I don't know, I just think Indy maybe
46:10 has a better chance of doing that against you
46:13 than New York did.
46:14 - You don't want it to be completely easy.
46:16 - No, no, I don't think that benefits you.
46:18 And here's the other thing, the Celtics just have not played
46:21 in my mind, really close game.
46:23 Like, I don't know how you feel about this.
46:25 I don't feel like they've really played a close game yet.
46:27 Now, I know people will say game four against Cleveland,
46:31 because that did get close in the fourth quarter
46:33 and they had that scoreless drought.
46:34 Was it 420?
46:36 Sorry, not scoreless, 420 without a field goal.
46:39 - It was a close game.
46:40 - Yes, exactly.
46:41 Thank you, Bobby.
46:42 They were up by 15, had that cushion,
46:45 and then it came down.
46:46 It wasn't like a game that was within like six,
46:49 basically, the whole fourth quarter.
46:50 It was, you had a 15 point cushion,
46:52 but you had built, which was great.
46:54 And it got winnowed down.
46:55 And then you were able to sort of, you know,
46:57 Jalen Brown hits the three off the great pass from Tatum
47:01 and you survived.
47:01 But to me, that doesn't count as like a close game
47:04 'cause you had such a cushion going into it.
47:06 So I wouldn't mind seeing the Celtics in a close game or two
47:09 in this series, just so they're ready
47:12 by the time they get to the finals
47:14 and know how to respond in a close game,
47:16 which I do think that stuff matters.
47:18 - I have the date right in front of me.
47:19 April 5th was their last close finish, 44 days ago
47:24 against the Kings.
47:25 And it was funny 'cause I was asked to ask him,
47:28 Mike Brown, before that game,
47:29 'cause they'd play in a lot of close games
47:30 and have really good results there.
47:32 And I was like, how do you guys win so many
47:35 of these crunch time games?
47:36 And he goes, "I go to church every Sunday."
47:39 (laughing)
47:40 - That's a great answer.
47:41 - So I was really, I had my eye on the crunch time thing
47:46 then and the Celtics have had their struggles
47:48 there this year.
47:49 So to not get reps, not get opportunities to do that,
47:52 I think is a valid concern going into a potentially tough
47:54 final series.
47:55 And we'll obviously get a pretty good look
47:57 at who we're gonna end up being tonight
47:58 with Denver and Minnesota about to play a game seven.
48:01 So we'll go check that out.
48:03 I'm really interested to see where that's gonna go here.
48:05 But the Celtics do have to get by the Pacers first.
48:07 East final starts Tuesday, eight o'clock.
48:10 We'll have coverage throughout here.
48:12 We'll have a full Garden Report series preview
48:15 tomorrow night.
48:16 So stay tuned for that.
48:17 The whole crew coming back to talk about that
48:19 after a week off here, effectively, between series.
48:22 And appreciate Chris stopping by.
48:24 In the meantime, of course, check out all his work
48:26 at the Boston Globe.
48:27 You still got the Nessun Show going as well.
48:30 - Yep, Boston Globe Today Sports every Friday at 5 p.m.
48:33 on Nessun, hosting that.
48:34 And you can always catch me on 98.5 The Sports Hub as well.
48:37 I'm on Felger and Maz on Fridays from three to four.
48:40 And then Gasper and Murray with my good buddy, Jim Murray
48:43 on Saturdays, we're on from 11 to two.
48:45 And that 12 to one hour, this is the demographic, man.
48:49 12 to one is the Sports Hub Celtics show.
48:50 We appreciate you coming on that, Bobby.
48:53 Hopeful we can get you on again during the post-season.
48:56 But that whole hour on Saturdays, 12 to one
48:58 is completely dedicated to Celtics talk.
49:01 - Yeah, and I think the chat loved having you here too.
49:03 A lot of positive reviews there.
49:05 So that's always good.
49:06 Hopefully we'll get you back as well.
49:09 Wait till they're down in the series, Chris.
49:11 - I know.
49:12 - Then they'll love you still, I'm sure.
49:16 - We'll see, fingers crossed.
49:19 - One more shout out to one of our sponsors here, PXG.
49:21 Great golf apparel.
49:23 It's summertime, it's about to warm up.
49:25 I think 80 degrees a couple of days this week.
49:28 So if you're out on the course, awesome gear to have.
49:31 Lightweight, feels good on a hot day out there wearing this.
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49:38 a lot of good stuff over there at PXG.
49:40 And you can get a 10% discount with our code GARNREPORT.
49:44 So go to pxg.com/garnreport and check that out.
49:47 Thanks again to Chris.
49:49 I'm about to go record with Noah.
49:51 We're doing our studio edition of the show tonight.
49:53 So we'll have a little bit more talking about this series
49:56 and the playoffs that's been so far
49:58 from the Celtics with her.
49:59 She's done a great job throughout this post season
50:01 covering the Celtics as well over at Celtics blog.
50:04 So check that out.
50:05 That'll probably be out tomorrow as we pre-record that.
50:08 So that's that.
50:10 A lot of busy time, Chris, but it's good.
50:12 And then we're off to Indiana.
50:14 So we'll be out there this weekend covering that as well.
50:19 Unfortunately, not New York,
50:20 but that's a wrap here for this edition of the GARN Report.
50:24 Thanks again, Chris.
50:25 And we will talk to everybody tomorrow.
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