Taylor Kyles from CLNS Media is joined by NFL Network's National reporter Cameron Wolfe to discuss the Patriots draft and what changes are being made under the team's new regime.
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#Patriots #NFL
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#Patriots #NFL
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00What's going on everyone? Taylor Kyle's here for CLNS Media coming at you with another
00:00:26episode of Pat's Daily brought to you by our good friends at PrizePix and GameTime.
00:00:31Patriots draft is in the books. We're kind of in the wake of it. We're starting to feel
00:00:35like, all right, how good was this draft? I don't know about you guys. I'm still feeling
00:00:39pretty good riding that wave. And I brought on somebody today who was actually on site
00:00:44before the Patriots drafted, during and after, and got some really interesting insight into
00:00:49not only what was going on last weekend, but also some of the culture shifts and internal
00:00:54changes that are happening inside the Patriots building. So without further ado, NFL National
00:00:59Reporter for NFL Network, Cameron Wolf. Cam, how you doing? Especially coming off one of
00:01:05the busiest weeks of the year. You okay? I'm good. I'm good. It's all green grass in front
00:01:10of us. The good thing about the off season is the draft is actually the start. When the
00:01:16draft ends, it's kind of the start of our off season. So I was like, hey, push past
00:01:20the draft. And then there's a lot in the future, head free, a lot of golf for me, a
00:01:25lot of hanging out. I live in Florida, so hanging out by the water. But it's still great
00:01:30to unpack the draft because it's my, other than, you know, the playoffs, it's probably
00:01:36my favorite football event because no matter what team you root for, there's so much hope,
00:01:41right? Like the playoffs, it's just the elite teams of that year, the Super Bowls, the two
00:01:46best teams. The draft, everybody has hope, right? The draft, you can picture what your
00:01:52team looks like for the future and really get a vision of how you're trying to build.
00:01:57And, you know, a guy like me, I came up as a fan making my own mock drafts on paper as
00:02:04like a seven or eight year old kid, you know, writing it down of what I, and so like to
00:02:08me, this whole episode of doing it and getting paid for it for a job is still surreal. And
00:02:13so I always, always soak in this time and then always seeing 21, 22 year old kids get
00:02:18to live their, their life dream. So this week was cool for me. And then I got to see kind
00:02:24of the inside look of the New England Patriots. I think for so long, they've been this, this
00:02:28kind of, I don't know, the, the, what do you call it? The, the evil empire from people
00:02:33outside of the building of like, you don't know what's going on. You just know they're
00:02:37really, really good at what they do. Right. And Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, a dynasty,
00:02:42six titles, but that's all over. And so how do you move past that? What is the new identity?
00:02:49And you start with a new quarterback and Drake may. So learned a lot this week and wrote
00:02:53about it on nfl.com with a piece of kind of diving into some stories there and talked
00:02:58about it on TV. And we'll be covering it a bunch throughout the year and the years ahead
00:03:03of what the draw Mayo Patriots will look like. Absolutely read that piece. If you haven't
00:03:08already, we're going to touch on a lot of the points just to get your insight into that.
00:03:11But like you mentioned, you were on the ground, it's a time for hope and all that good stuff.
00:03:15So obviously we have to see what's going to happen with this organization. Things change.
00:03:19We'll see if the changes they're making are actually going to pay off. What was the vibe
00:03:23that you got before we get into the nitty gritty of those changes? How did it feel kind
00:03:27of leading up to the draft? And then once they got Drake may, what were things like?
00:03:30Yeah, it was jovial, honestly. I'm not a spirit, honestly, that I'm used to feeling when I
00:03:36get to the, the Foxborough Boston area, even when they've been winning, it's always been
00:03:40a business light atmosphere. And I got happiness. I got joy. I got one of the first elements
00:03:48I got when I arrived to the facility on Wednesday was dry mail welcoming me into his office.
00:03:54You know I can guarantee you if Bill Belichick was here, I would not have been welcomed to
00:03:59attend this office for, it ended up being 35, 40 minutes talking ball. And I don't,
00:04:04I don't, Bill Belichick didn't have anything against me. That's just not his way. It doesn't
00:04:08mean it's right or wrong. It's just a different way of being. And so it's funny. I had my,
00:04:12a bunch of my colleagues joke with me when they learned I had this assignment, it was
00:04:16like, good luck of like, it's going to be, you know, a difficult storm and, you know,
00:04:20credit to, to, to the Patriots, they're doing things their way. You know, Gerard's doing
00:04:24things his way, Ellie is doing things his way and they're willing to do things differently.
00:04:29And you know, Gerard welcomed me in, Stacey James was, was okay with it and it kind of
00:04:34set everything. And so like all of those things kind of set and shifted my expectations
00:04:39from that Wednesday of like, Hey, this may be a difficult challenge to try to work with
00:04:44this team to, Hey, this is really the new New England Patriots. And so I'd say that's
00:04:49my, that was my first vibe, just kind of seeing just kind of the, the reaction on people's
00:04:55faces around the building. I was walking through the facility and you see different coaches.
00:04:59I ran into Matthew Slater, who's now working with dry mail and, you know, you just kind
00:05:04of get a different energy, you get a different vibe. And you know, the reality is they have
00:05:10not lost any games yet. They are zero and zero. It's a rebuilding team and you know,
00:05:15the butterflies and sunshines and rainbows, all of that sounds good in April when you
00:05:19haven't lost any games in May at this point. But you, you got to see how things hit when
00:05:25they actually hit. But I thought this team had already started to show a ways they were
00:05:31different. I talked with Gerard Mayo in his office. And one of the first things he told
00:05:34me was, Hey, if Bill Belichick was here, we'd probably trade back. And, but we're, we still
00:05:40believe in trading back, but we very much believe at three, we have to get a cornerstone
00:05:45player. And, you know, I had a pretty, pretty strong idea. We're not allowed to tip picks
00:05:50an NFL network, but I had a pretty strong idea and I tried to make it as clear as possible
00:05:54in my reporting that Drake May was the, was the guy, unless you got that Godfather offer,
00:06:00but even something as simple as those two elements, the fact that, you know, Gerard
00:06:04had a lot of different elements as he's starting, the fact that they're open to staying at three
00:06:09instead of trading back, the fact that they're willing to change their draft philosophy,
00:06:15their draft grading system, which we'll talk about a little later with Elliot Pope and
00:06:19how they go about things like these are things of like, Hey, I know we have done things a
00:06:23certain way and we've been very good at it, but it's a new person in charge.
00:06:28And I am not going to just try to replicate where, what Bill Belichick did. That's just
00:06:32not no matter if Gerard came up under him, no matter the fact that Elliott spent the
00:06:36last four years there, they're their own men. And for better or for worse, you're going
00:06:41to get the male Wolf May Patriots, not just the off branch of the Bill Belichick Patriots.
00:06:48One, I'm glad it was a pleasant surprise. Your trip went a little better than you expected
00:06:52more open. And like you mentioned,
00:06:54The weather was great too. I told you I'm a Florida guy. I'm not going to lie. I heard
00:06:58it was a lot of rain. And the first day I showed up sunshine, not a cloud in the sky.
00:07:03And I'm like, this must be a sign. This must be a sign.
00:07:06I think you brought it with you. I think you're being a little too modest there. You helped us
00:07:09out a little bit because it's been up and down. So thank you for that. But like you mentioned,
00:07:13they're not trying to replicate what Belichick did. And there's been some times this off season
00:07:18you know, Gerard and Elliot, they kind of got themselves in trouble, right or wrong.
00:07:22We're kind of trying to separate themselves and be like, no, we are doing our own thing.
00:07:25But at the same time, they both have acknowledged that they do respect the things that Bill
00:07:29Belichick did. And multiple times this off season, you've heard Gerard Mayo show reverence
00:07:33for Bill Belichick and all the different ways that he influenced him. So actually you mentioned
00:07:38the draft. We'll go with that. I am curious in what ways from what you saw are things
00:07:42different and also the same in the draft philosophy. I feel like, like you said,
00:07:46the fact they stuck in Cook Drake may like from watching all the past quarterback drafts and
00:07:51things or Patriots drafts. I was very worried that they were going to go back and get J.J.
00:07:55McCarthy, who I had nothing against him. But I'm like, hey, man, you're going up against some of
00:07:58the best quarterbacks in football in the AFC. You need someone like Drake May who can physically
00:08:03keep you in games. And then you rise them up to the mental capacity where he could be more
00:08:07competitive. So what did you see in terms of that difference from the front office and the way they
00:08:11did things last weekend? Yeah, I actually start with Elliot Wolf because the reality of the Bill
00:08:16Belichick era was even when it was great, even when it was bad, you get Bill Belichick as both
00:08:21the coach and the general manager. And so you get him as the end all be all. In this current regime,
00:08:28it's Gerard Mayo and Elliot Wolf as completely separate men. Elliot Wolf's having full control,
00:08:33but Elliot Wolf, even though he spent the last four years for the Patriots, has largely been
00:08:37a Green Bay Packer for most of his career. So this isn't a guy who built himself and his principles
00:08:43up in New England like most of the people in New England. They've had a lot of we promote
00:08:48internally. And so everyone who had got to the top had always learned a certain way. Elliot's
00:08:54learned a different way. And I learned in the process, one of the first things he did in this
00:08:58draft process is to change the grading system, just kind of make it as simple as I can for folks.
00:09:04The Patriots fit based system as far as their draft board. And what I mean by that is they
00:09:11will only have people on their board who they feel like that could fit in this particular role
00:09:14within their offense, within our defense, that fits a certain type of player they are trying
00:09:19to look at. And so it didn't allow for maybe those outliers who were just incredible talents,
00:09:24but didn't necessarily fit into your three, four defensive end position or this type thing.
00:09:30Right. And so I think the first thing he did is change that to a, a value based system instead
00:09:35of a fit based system and say, Hey, fit batters. But at a certain point, the value becomes too
00:09:41great to worry about the fit. And it's like, Hey, if this is a top 10 player on our board,
00:09:46but he's not a great fit, if he's there at 25, then all of a sudden we don't, we start thinking,
00:09:53okay, maybe it becomes more worth that chance. And we'll figure out how to get them into our
00:09:57system. I think that's something that more teams than not use. And I think that's something that
00:10:03Elliot Wolf got from green Bay. And he's using that style along with Alonzo Highsmith,
00:10:08who came over and has a big role and changing your grading system within one off season is
00:10:14difficult challenge, but it seems like they, they, they were all in on doing that path.
00:10:18And so their draft board, I was told was about 200 players. A lot of times the Patriots under
00:10:23Belichick would have 125, sometimes less player draft board. And so you're just looking at a
00:10:29smaller group of pool of players to pick from. And then that often is why you get some of those
00:10:34picks where people were like, why are we getting a third round guy in the first round? Well,
00:10:38if you only got 10 first round players on your board and they all go off, then you're picking
00:10:44second and third round players in the twenties and thirties where the Patriots had long been
00:10:47picking. And so it doesn't mean that it's the right way versus the wrong way, but I think
00:10:51that's just a huge change that we saw within this draft. And so you see guys, you know,
00:10:57the Drake may pick, just start with that. Like Mayo told me, he thought they would trade back
00:11:02in that situation. And you heard for some of you guys, listen, Bill Belichick kind of break down
00:11:06the pick and, you know, talk about some of the things he felt like were issues with Drake May.
00:11:10And I think a long time in the Belichick era, it was like, Hey, we want as many shots that as we
00:11:16can get at players rather than, Hey, let's maximize this one spot. And so if you're,
00:11:21if you're looking at the bill area, you may be looking at a situation where they take that
00:11:25giants offer. Maybe they take that Vikings offer and say, Hey, we'll take our chances,
00:11:29whether it's JJ McCarthy or Michael Penning. So I also know they were high on, um, and we'll get
00:11:35the extra picks and we'll build that way. They felt the value for the quarterback and getting
00:11:40the right quarterback was, uh, more than enough to stay there. So I think that's a big principle
00:11:44there, even something as small as for Elliot Wolf. And I don't know if you guys noticed this
00:11:49on draft weekend, but they showed a picture of the draft room and the draft room had a lot of
00:11:54scouts and coaches in that area. The Patriots historically have had one of the smallest draft
00:11:59rooms as far as people inside there. Um, but Belichick often invited just maybe the coordinator,
00:12:04the head coach and the top scout executives. So you might have 10 or less people in your,
00:12:10your draft room. And here it was 30, 40 plus, you know, he invited any coach, any scout who
00:12:16wanted to be in there, in that room. And so I think it kind of creates an element where your
00:12:20scouts feel heard. You feel like you're a little bit more of a cohesive group, not just, Hey,
00:12:25this is Bill's show and that's it. So I think there's just some things that I guess stood out
00:12:31from me in the early portions. And then the most obvious beyond Drake may, they took five straight
00:12:37offense players. They, they put seven of their first eight players offensive. And it was not,
00:12:42this was not a big secret. Elliot Wolf said all off season, we're going to weaponize the offense.
00:12:47Gerard Mayo told me in the office before the draft, we're not picking a middle linebacker
00:12:51high in the draft. We're not picking a defense tackle. We're not picking a corner. You got what
00:12:55you got my head. We know what the issue is and we're going to fix the issue. And I think a lot
00:12:59of times you saw on the Belichick area, even when at the end, when the office was the issue,
00:13:04defense was still in the forefront of building this team. I think Gerard Mayo is saying, Hey,
00:13:09our defense is good right now. We got to fix the other side of the ball. And I think there
00:13:12was an intentionality of we're going to, you know, no matter, I'm sure they're picking their
00:13:17board as true, but if everything's equal, we're going to pick the offensive player.
00:13:21And even if it's not equal, but very close, we might still pick the offensive players. We know
00:13:25we got to get receiver and we did get a receiver and multiple receivers. We know we got to get
00:13:30offense lines and they got multiple offense alignment. I think it's just doubling down
00:13:34on your needs and we'll see if the players work out. I guess it doesn't matter if they all bust.
00:13:38But right now I think that they know what the issues are. They're attacking intentionally
00:13:43and they're surrounding their young quarterback with a young offensive talent in a way they didn't
00:13:49do when Mike Jones was the first round picker. Like you said, I think the Patriots are really
00:13:55just living up to a lot of the things they've said this off season where like you mentioned,
00:13:59weaponizing the offense and kind of the aggressiveness towards that. The one thing
00:14:03I think Mayo has said that got him in trouble was when he said, burn some cash, right?
00:14:09It was like, why would you say that? But it is kind of cool to see one, the transparency,
00:14:15but also that this group is really following through with what they said. They said,
00:14:19we're going to draft and develop. We're going to keep our guys that we feel are like conducive
00:14:22to what we're trying to do. And we've seen that happen, especially with the bar more extension.
00:14:26Yeah, I can bring his contract after Tom Brady and you're seeing they really are paying the guys
00:14:30that they feel like are part of their long-term plans. Another thing, like you mentioned,
00:14:34scouts actually being in the room, feeling heard. Rod Mayo said he wanted to knock down walls. That
00:14:39was day one. He wanted people to feel more included. And speaking to those walls,
00:14:44it's not just philosophical changes that we're seeing inside Gillette. We're also seeing some
00:14:49changes in terms of the building, the things on the wall, what they're saying in term, in addition
00:14:53to some philosophical changes. So what did you see actually in the building and how are they kind of
00:14:57changing the message from the typical, you know, do your job and all those types of mantras we saw
00:15:02with Bill Belichick? Yeah, it's interesting because for some people, this may be nothing.
00:15:06For some people, it may be everything, but I thought it was noticeable. I got to walk through
00:15:10one Patriot plate, saw some of the team meeting rooms and saw the hallways. And one of the first
00:15:16things I noticed as I'm walking, I'm like, there's no Patriot way sign up, you know, there's no do
00:15:21your job sign on the door. Like where did it go? And, you know, I'm walking the halls with Robin
00:15:25Glaser, who is, you know, the advisor for Drodd Mayo, but also executive vice president on the
00:15:32football business side of things. And I know there's a lot of people trying to figure out
00:15:35what her role is, what she's doing. She's not making football decisions. Like she didn't pick
00:15:40Drake May, but she's handling a lot of those business elements that honestly Drodd Mayo
00:15:45probably doesn't want to spend the time that it takes to allocate to. And so she's handling a lot
00:15:52of those administrative business elements and creative elements, like the wall transformation.
00:15:57That's really from my understanding, a passion of hers that she really wanted to put in fruition.
00:16:02And so taking some of the principles that Drodd wants his team to stand for and putting it on the
00:16:08wall himself, because, you know, and it's a delicate balance. And I think the Patriots are
00:16:12trying to deal with this, this particular, because it seems like everything that comes out is either
00:16:18a slight against Bill Belichick, attacking Bill Belichick or this and that. And I think they're
00:16:22trying to figure out how we navigate away from such a big figure and create our own landscape.
00:16:27Like this is Drodd's team. Like Drodd has to build a culture. I've covered so many different
00:16:34coaching changes and no matter what their style, the first thing, almost every coach says, hey,
00:16:38we got to build our culture. And they all have different principles. They all have different
00:16:43sayings. To me, I'm not really worried as much about the sayings. I mentioned some of them
00:16:48in the story, like hard works, works, progress or process, progress, payoff is another one of them.
00:16:56That's a theme of the season. You know, when we win, we win together. That's from Alex Van Pelt.
00:17:02These are things that are on the wall in the building are going to be principles for them
00:17:05going forward. And these are, you know, Drodd-Mayo kind of principles, kind of the same way Bill had
00:17:10his as well. I'm not as much worried about the actual phrases as much as like Drodd saying,
00:17:16I'm taking ownership of this team. I'm taking ownership of this building. This isn't just,
00:17:21hey, that's Bill's boy who's taken over after Bill lost some games. No, it's Drodd-Mayo,
00:17:28the head coach of the Patriots. And although I learned a lot from Bill and we're going to have
00:17:32some principles, I'm sure I learned from Bill. I'm my own man. And a part of that is redoing
00:17:38some of that. And so I think the balance is, hey, we're not trying to disrespect Bill,
00:17:42but at the same time, Bill is gone. Bill is not going to help us win any games in 2024 or 2025.
00:17:49It's going to be how they move forward. And so they have a picture of Bill in the hallway with
00:17:52some notable scouts and executives and coaches who've been there. So they definitely want to
00:17:58make sure to give him his respect. But this is a Drodd-Mayo envisioned building that kind of
00:18:03Robin Glazer brought to life. And there's like a really cool mural on the back wall that I talked
00:18:09about a little bit in the story. The Patriots are going to do a little bit more in the future
00:18:14and show that publicly. And so I don't want to spoil anything for people. So I just kind of
00:18:19give you a general idea, but it's really cool to see, especially like for me as a young Black guy
00:18:24at Drodd-Mayo as the first Black coach to ever be a part of this franchise.
00:18:28In a city, let's just keep it real, who has some, some people have questions of outside of the city
00:18:34of how they accept Black folk. And so I think that that's something that some people are
00:18:39uncomfortable talking about, but when you have a Black head coach, I think his identity and
00:18:43what he stands for is going to be an important part of that, especially in a league that is
00:18:48primarily Black. And so the mural that I'm referring to in the story is a young Black kid
00:18:53looking at, you know, some Patriots legends, like five or six different Patriots legends,
00:18:57including a Drodd-Mayo and sort of envisioning as time goes on, what he could be. Maybe he could be
00:19:04a future Patriot. And so I thought it was just a cool, you know, kind of art visual. And there's
00:19:09also an element that, that kind of has Patriots spelled out where it has a few different descriptions
00:19:14of, hey, what do you think Patriots should stand for? And there's a few different standings,
00:19:19sayings on there that kind of put into vision of like, hey, what do you think you as a Patriot
00:19:25should stand for? Like as a New England Patriot, not as a United States Patriot, but you guys get
00:19:30what I'm saying. And so I think that that's such a, just an interesting, it was just such an
00:19:36interesting, like 30 minutes of my, my weekend, because I had a vision of what the Patriots had
00:19:44long been. And I think as I spent more time, it was rewriting kind of that vision. And I actually
00:19:51reached out to Devon Godshaw, who I've had a relationship with for a while, defense tackle
00:19:55there. And I just simply asked him like, hey man, I know, you know, it's only been a few months,
00:19:59but what do you think about, you know, Gerard Mayo, does it feel different? And he's like,
00:20:03oh man, he said, Kraft, he's referring to Robert, not Jonathan. I know that's been a question here
00:20:08too. Robert Kraft made the best hire he could make and replacing Bill Belichick and Gerard
00:20:15Mayo. He was like, he is the right leader for us. And he was like, really, I have no other worries.
00:20:20We just have to get this offense right. He said, the defense is going to be great,
00:20:23but if we get this offense right, I think we're going to be back in the playoffs sooner than
00:20:27later. And so like that to me, and this is, this is a guy who as a veteran, I know him very well,
00:20:33he's not going to BS me. And so I'm often curious what the player perspective is, because a lot of
00:20:40things for new head coaches can be done for the PR perspective to, to show the outside national
00:20:47media or national public, or even the local public, this is what we are. But behind the scenes,
00:20:52the players are not connecting it with it. And players understand they feel fake. They feel
00:20:57where something's not authentic. Everything I've heard about Gerard has been extremely authentic.
00:21:02He is relatable. I have a quote in there where he talks about warmth before confidence,
00:21:07a phrase of his, I think he's used it publicly before, but he kind of went in depth with that.
00:21:12He's like, Hey, this is not the old era that I grew up in where you just tell players to do what
00:21:17they, they do. He was like, no, you have to build a relationship with them before you're tough with
00:21:21them. And he's like, you know, I will coach out of love and my staff will too. So he was very clear
00:21:27about how he wants to do things. It's no secret. Bill Belichick didn't roll that way. Bill Belichick,
00:21:32you know, there's probably not a lot of not saying he didn't love his players. I'm sure he did.
00:21:37You just probably didn't feel it on a day-to-day level, just the way he went about things. And
00:21:41that's fine. He won six championships that way. And so it was a winning way. It's just a different
00:21:46era. And I think that's something that Mayo really wanted to, to impact. And I think you're
00:21:52going to see a happier group, at least early on. Now, again, I will make this point again,
00:21:59because again, it's May, October happens your own four, you know, November happens. You're,
00:22:07you're one in seven or even October, 2025 happens and you're still one in five after a losing
00:22:15season. Then I think things change in perspective, but I think for right now, vibes have been great.
00:22:21Morale has been great. And it's been kind of eyeopening to me, just seeing how everybody's
00:22:26adjusting to really this new normal. And of course, like you said, losing can change things.
00:22:36The same as being a position coach or a coordinator, they are very different roles
00:22:40where you have a different level of pressure. But I remember one thing last year when players
00:22:43were being asked, you know, what do you think about Mayo as a potential head coach?
00:22:47So many players echo that, especially on the defensive side of the ball, of course,
00:22:50that he was the reason, even though they were losing, even though things weren't going great,
00:22:55they wanted to come in for him because he brought a different energy. He kept guys alert,
00:22:59wanting to play hard. And also the different perspective people were like, even in the game
00:23:03plans, he doesn't talk about football. The way most coaches talk about football, he makes it
00:23:07more about life. It's more kind of philosophical and just that different vantage point kind of
00:23:12makes it more interesting to listen to him. And obviously there's also the freshness of having,
00:23:16you know, there's some new defensive coaches, but also on offense, really it's an overhaul.
00:23:20So really just hearing a different message will be interesting, but I love that at least Mayo
00:23:24does give that difference in personality and kind of perspective for his players.
00:23:29Yeah. And one more thing I wanted to add there, like drop males, 38 years old player
00:23:34who played eight years in New England. Like, I think there's a lot of value. Not every coach
00:23:40has to be a former player, but I think there's a lot of value in him being not too removed from
00:23:46being a player himself. And so I think there's a certain connectivity there. But I will say this
00:23:52because I had heard a little bit about this when I wrote the story, when I talked about it,
00:23:56because there's always a balance, right? Like you always think, Hey, we, we had one style of coach.
00:24:02This always happens in coaching. You have one style of coach, you fire them and then you try
00:24:05to take the exact opposite. Draw males, not the exact opposite of bill Belichick draw.
00:24:10Mayo had a lot of bill Belichick principles. Like, I think that he is going to be tough on guys. I
00:24:15think that he's going to yell at guys. I think he's going to have discipline as a core tenant
00:24:20in his, his scheme and his coaching. Like, I don't think you get this. Like, I will say this,
00:24:26I cover, I cover, I live in Miami. So I cover the Miami dolphins a lot. I do not think that
00:24:30draw male is a Mike McDaniel style coach for better or for worse. Right. I think Mike McDaniel
00:24:37is a great coach. But I think that what my Daniel shows publicly is like this, this always happy,
00:24:44this always kind of players, player, players guy. And I think Gerard would be a player's coach,
00:24:51but I think as the year goes on, you'll see a little bit more of maybe, okay, that's, that's
00:24:56the building right there on that particular point. Right. I think it'll come out. And so
00:25:01although Gerard is very much his own man, I don't want people to get confused and say, Oh, well,
00:25:05this guy's a former player. They're just going to run all over him. He's just, you know, he's just
00:25:09here to be buddy buddy with the players. I think a lot of the reason why he's trusted is not just
00:25:14because players like him. It's because they feel like they can run behind him. They can like,
00:25:19he leads in a way that they understand, but they also respect. And so I think that like the coaches,
00:25:25even coach, I mentioned like in Mike McDaniel, I think you'll see a lot more of these style coaches
00:25:30when who realized the value of, as Mayo told me, like player mental health,
00:25:35building up confidence in a player. Like you got a guy in, in Drake may who's 21 years old.
00:25:41You got to understand the importance of building up his confidence. He's a confident dude. If you
00:25:45heard him talk, he's confident dude, he's been competitive all his life, but it's tough. If you
00:25:49throw them out there in the fire early in the season and he ends up getting sacked, throwing
00:25:53four interceptions in the game, who, how do you connect to him? I think that's going to be
00:25:59something that I think the new era has to recognize because, you know, you, if, if a player doesn't
00:26:05receive a certain type of coaching, well, he has a four interception game early in his career.
00:26:10You can break him just by how hard you are on him telling them he stunk. Why'd you make that
00:26:15decision versus trying to build them up, trying to feel positives out of them. And I think that
00:26:19the, the caring about players, that element is going to help him in individual development.
00:26:26And I think that's something this team will need immensely. So you're going to be a young roster,
00:26:31a roster that's going to take time. How do you develop players as they go through
00:26:35adversity, go through mistakes. And I think that's one thing that Gerard and he hopes is that
00:26:41we'll be able to bring through, even as they go through maybe some struggles early in the process.
00:26:46I mean, look no forward than the Mack Jones experiment where you had a guy who had lost
00:26:50all confidence because one, the support around him was not there. You didn't draft to make him
00:26:55better. And then you also had reports that Bill Belichick wasn't talking to him. Like that has
00:27:00to have on a young quarterback, like Matt's still 25 year old guy. Like as a person, he's still
00:27:05developing into not have support from someone who's so important to guide it. If you're in
00:27:09football, you probably looked up to at some point in your career and every new guy that's coming for
00:27:13the Patriots has alluded to the fact that Mayo was formerly a player and having that perspective
00:27:18of like, you know, Matt Light and Tom Brady would joke that he was Bill jr. Because whenever they
00:27:22were like, Oh, we don't want to be pads or we don't want to practice today. They would send
00:27:26Gerard and be, you know, not really about this and knowing both sides were like, yeah, sometimes
00:27:31you have to be a disciplinarian and to be great. You do need to get everything out of guys and
00:27:36really force them to kind of get out of their comfort zones. But also knowing again, as a
00:27:40player, sometimes you got to back off. You need to know who you're talking to. You need to. And I
00:27:44think this is so important. Prioritizing the player's mental health. These are something
00:27:48that some of these players may not even be thinking about is what's going on inside my
00:27:52head. Like, why am I feeling this way? Why is this happening? And to say, no, we're going to
00:27:56prioritize that to make sure that one, you know, that like you said, we're invested you as a human
00:28:01being, and then we also want to maximize you on the field, but that is secondary. So we got a lot
00:28:06more to talk about. We're going to get a little deeper into the draft, some great insights already
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00:29:16So like you mentioned, Drake may with someone, the Patriots seemed really excited to actually
00:29:20be getting. So I'm curious and what you were able to learn from your time there.
00:29:24One, why was Drake made the guy? I think we've heard some things from them,
00:29:28but obviously different perspective. And also another thing that they've talked about is
00:29:32not wanting too many guys in Drake Mase ear. So from what you know,
00:29:35do you have an idea of who's actually going to be talking to Drake main working with him?
00:29:39Cause I know Alex Van Pelt when he was in Cleveland, even though he was the offensive
00:29:43coordinator, he said, no, like I've had a lot of success with quarterbacks. I will be involved,
00:29:47but you've also got TC McCartney and Ben McAdoo. So how's that going to work out?
00:29:51Yeah. Well, two, uh, two good and separate, uh, topics. So I will say this, um,
00:29:57y'all just, let's keep it real from what I understand the Patriots would took whoever
00:30:01dropped to them out of the big three. Like you can make it. However, we fell in love with Drake
00:30:06may and, you know, we made this to them. It wasn't really a choice. Um, I know the JJ McCarthy stuff
00:30:12popped up late. My understood he was never really a consideration to be taken over. Drake may JJ
00:30:20would have been an option if they did decide, Hey, we want to take that Godfather trade offer
00:30:26and trade back to six or trade back to 11. Then maybe we look at the JJ McCarthy,
00:30:32Michael Pinnock's group, but they, they very much thought it was Caleb Williams,
00:30:35Jane Daniels, Drake may whatever word you want. I don't know for sure if Drake may would have been
00:30:39the pig. If for whatever reason, Washington went JJ McCarthy and shocks and folks like that would
00:30:46have been an interesting debate. I do know like, like Gerard male, like Jane Daniels a lot. He was
00:30:51very honest with me with that. Like, and I liked Jane Daniels a lot. I'm just going to be honest.
00:30:56I think Jane Daniels is going to be a star, not saying Drake can't be that player.
00:31:00I think Jaden's a little bit more ready right now. And you'll see that more immediate. And so
00:31:04if you're comparing, it may be something where, Hey, Caleb and Jaden, at least in my view are
00:31:09going to go out to the early league and they're going to look like the, you know, I don't know
00:31:14if they have a CJ Stroud type year, but one of them may be CJ Stroud. And you're sitting there
00:31:19with your quarterback. Like, are you sure we got the right one and wait two or three years?
00:31:24And I think Drake will be there with him. Right. And so I think the thought for Drake,
00:31:30once they realized it was going to be Caleb at one and Jaden at two was that, Hey, Drake can
00:31:36grow as we can grow. Like I think Gerard and Elliot are very honest with themselves, which I
00:31:42think is good that we are not a championship team. Like I included this anecdote later in the story.
00:31:47And I, you know, for those of you who read the story, I understand if you didn't get to this
00:31:52part, because it was a long story. It's like a 3000 plus word story I ended up with, but it was
00:31:57a cool anecdote. I felt like I wanted to put at the end Gerard had told me that he had the
00:32:01conversation with KJ Osborne after they had got him. And they were, he was essentially like, Hey,
00:32:05I told him straight up. We're not super bowl or bus. We're because you're here. We're not going
00:32:12to all of a sudden win a championship. Like I'm not going to sell you this stuff that a lot of
00:32:16people sell people to get free there. It's going to be a journey. And really we just want to
00:32:22be able to be really competitive, grow, and really play complimentary football and be able
00:32:28to make those hidden plays on social teams, the good plays on defense and grow as an offense.
00:32:33And I think that's a real realistic expectation for the Patriots. Like I know people will do
00:32:38these shows and may, June, July and say, Hey, what's considered as a set for. I don't know
00:32:44if there's a win amount that you can put on that, right? This is a four and 13 team.
00:32:49I do not believe they're going to make the playoffs in 2024. I'm sorry, Patriots fans.
00:32:54I'm just going to keep it real. I don't care how good Drake is year one. And I do think
00:32:59that he will play and start at some point in year one. I don't think that you will be a red shirt
00:33:05player. I do not think this is a playoff team. I think they still have a lot of holes on this
00:33:10roster. I think that they filled some potentially in, in the draft, but it's going to take some
00:33:15time. And so Drake also is not a finished product as a player. Some of the questions about Drake
00:33:22were, Hey, he's got sporadic accuracy. Sometimes when the pocket got a little bit messy,
00:33:27he moved out a little quickly. He may have missed some throws or miss some reads.
00:33:31They thought that he should have, should not have missed. And then you get to a situation where
00:33:36he's also a player where they, they, you haven't seen the fullness of a success that you've seen
00:33:44in a JJ, which national title, a Jayden winning a Heisman trophy. So like, is he going to be able
00:33:50to be at the elite of the elite? Is he going to be at a tap into all of those skill sets? We know
00:33:55he has a big arm. We know he's a really good athlete. We know that he can make every throw.
00:34:00Can he put it all together? I think those are all real questions for Drake. That is going to take
00:34:05time to be able to answer. He's only 21 years old. He's got tremendous upside, but as Mayo
00:34:12mentioned in the process, he's also got a floor. Like this is not a, a, a miss prospect. He has
00:34:18bust potential for wherever that's work, but you also got to take a chance.
00:34:22And we talked about this a little offline. Like you're picking in the top three,
00:34:26you're picking in the top five. Yeah. You're going to say, Hey, I'm going to hit a single
00:34:29for baseball term. I'm going to hit a single. I'm going to hit a double where, Hey, I know
00:34:33this guy's going to at least be a starter for five to 10 years. Right. You could certainly
00:34:38draft it. And I think JJ probably falls in that category for me. I think JJ McCarthy is going to
00:34:43be a starter on this lead for 10 years, at least now, whether he's the 11th best quarterback in
00:34:49football, the 19th best quarterback in football, if he touches somewhere in the top 10, I don't
00:34:54know, but I think that's where his ranges Drake. If he hits his full potential, he could be a top
00:35:00five quarterback in five years. Right. And I think that's why you're taking that swing.
00:35:04There's also a chance he doesn't work out because just keep it honest. And you may be looking for
00:35:09another quarterback in three or four years, but you've got to take that shot. And I think that's
00:35:13what they're doing here of saying he's got high end talent. And one thing that I think was not
00:35:18really portrayed a lot in the draft process that I learned a lot in the last week. And I tried to
00:35:23share those stories on TV and in the story, he's a competitive, competitive piece for lack of a
00:35:29better phrase. He's got some dog in him. It's weird. You listen to him talk. He's a Southern
00:35:35kid from North Carolina. He talks fast. He's just so jovial all over the place. And my first thought
00:35:41is, man, this is an interesting fit for Boston. There's not a lot of Boston that talk and move
00:35:50like Drake May. But I think that you start to get into who he is and you start to see
00:35:57that competitive nature. Something is small. And I talked about this in the story and on TV.
00:36:02The day before the draft, the night before the draft, he's playing four on four basketball
00:36:06in Detroit with his brothers. His dad's watching by, pins and needles, hoping he doesn't get hurt.
00:36:12You got millions of dollars on the line, son. Why are you going to risk breaking your ankle here
00:36:17with your brothers? And his brothers, it's funny, he calls himself the run of the family. He's 6'4",
00:36:226'5". But you look at his brothers, they're all 6'7", 6'8", 6'9". So he's the small guy who's
00:36:28been get beat up his whole life. And so that's his kind of roots. And so that was a cool kind
00:36:34of element for me, just kind of seeing that. And apparently Drake ended up killing it on the court
00:36:39that day, along with Luke May, who some of you guys will remember. He played for North Carolina,
00:36:44made the game winning shot in the lead eight against Kentucky the year they won the title.
00:36:48He plays basketball professionally in Japan now. And so apparently him and Drake were going crazy.
00:36:53And it's funny, I had interviewed Drake on Friday, a little one-on-one off to the side,
00:36:58and I had some fun with him. I asked him, is basketball a comp? He said, I'm an off-brand
00:37:02Jason Tatum. And I hear a couple of his brothers just groaning off the side, like, oh man,
00:37:07he's telling people he's Jason Tatum again. They probably have heard it so many times.
00:37:12And they're like, come on, man. That's not your game. But we always hype ourselves up a little bit
00:37:17more than what we are. But Drake can play some ball. Look at this high school tape.
00:37:20He can play some ball. But yeah, I think that you've got a guy who, and it was interesting
00:37:26because he used the comparison, and I think he was trying to be careful with this. But he used
00:37:30a Tom Brady reference, and mostly in reference of like, hey, the way he gets smacked in North
00:37:36Carolina. I don't know if this is something that Drake loved to hear as something that sold his
00:37:40head coach. But he was telling me, he was like, hey, the way Drake was getting smacked, he was
00:37:44like, it was just him out there sometimes. They didn't have a lot of real players. And he was
00:37:48just getting smacked. And he would get right back up, wouldn't bother him one bit. And it looked
00:37:52just, you know, just for a little bit, it looked like Tom Brady and the way he could take that
00:37:58punishment, just to take the punishment and get back up and do it again. And I could tell when
00:38:03Gerard was saying that, like, it did something for him. Like, he's a defensive guy. He wants to
00:38:08know if his quarterback is tough enough. And the toughness seems like it's not an issue. The
00:38:13competitiveness seems like it's not an issue. And then he's going to trust his coaches to be
00:38:18able to develop the other mechanics or whatever else it needs for him to become that player.
00:38:24I'll transition that to your second question. Got a little long-winded on this first part.
00:38:29Keep an eye on Ben McAdoo. I'll just say this. I don't know how the whole flow
00:38:33is going to happen as far as like what the communication is and Drake Helmet and all
00:38:37that stuff. I'm not going to BS you on that. I don't know how it's all going to fall out.
00:38:41But one thing I was told by Gerard and by multiple people, Ben McAdoo is going to have a huge role
00:38:48for Drake May. They hired him for a reason. I think that he's a quarterback savant. He's been
00:38:53a former head coach. And there's a thought there that he can develop Drake May. And so
00:38:59not saying that he's going to have more role than Alex Van Pelt, but I'd say that Ben McAdoo is
00:39:06going to have a really significant role in developing Drake May. And I think you're going
00:39:11to really want to listen to whenever Ben McAdoo gets a chance to talk to you guys, listen to
00:39:16whatever he feels like he's working on with Drake, because I think those are going to be principles
00:39:22that you see throughout the year, whether Drake started in week one or not. And so the last thing
00:39:27I'll say about the too many coaches in his ear, I thought it was a great point by Gerard and a good
00:39:32awareness because last year at this time, I was with another team. I usually just kind of
00:39:38perspective for me. They send me to a team every year for draft coverage. And it's usually, they
00:39:44give me a choice or two between teams for this year. I wanted to be in New England. I thought
00:39:48it was a very interesting story. And last year I was, they had the first overall pick there.
00:39:54They took Bryce Young. I did a lot of homework on that process. And I remember it was not brought up
00:40:00then, but they had so many different offensive coaches in mind. The thought there was, Hey,
00:40:06we created this all-star coaching staff. They went and got Thomas Brown and Jim Caldwell and Josh
00:40:12McCown. And, and, and you have Frank Reich, all these guys who are offensive guys. And there's
00:40:18few other guys in that building to potentially working with Bryce Young. And by like week three,
00:40:24I kept hearing that, like, there's so many voices in Bryce's head. He doesn't know what,
00:40:29what's going on. Like they're trying to tell Bryce this, they're trying to tell Bryce,
00:40:33we're going to do more, more shotgun Bryce, or we're going to do more under center.
00:40:36Bryce only wants to do shotgun. There's just so much going back and forth that like for a young
00:40:41guy, even somebody as smart as Bryce, cause that was the thing with Bryce and the pre-drive process.
00:40:46They were like, Hey, he can handle it all. He can handle a lot more than a typical rookie
00:40:51because of how he's come up and how he processes things. And I think because of that, they gave
00:40:58him way too much. Everybody wanted to be the guy like, Hey, I'm going to give you this insight.
00:41:02That makes you great. Or, Hey, let me get this little footwork thing here. Or if you look at,
00:41:06and I think there needs to be a clear lineage and there may already be internally, that's not
00:41:11something they have to share with us, but there needs to be a clear lineage of like, okay, who is
00:41:16responsible talking to Bryce pre-stack. You only have certain amount of time into the 15 second
00:41:22mark. How does it look like during game week? Is there a certain person that works with him
00:41:27during mechanics? Is it the same person that's working with him on his 15 yard intermediate
00:41:33routes and what he's seeing there? It was the same person that's looking at film with them.
00:41:37Like you got a quarterback coach, you got a Ben McAdoo, and then you have Alex Van Pelt,
00:41:42three really main guys that I think will have the most hands on him. I'm not saying three is too
00:41:47many. I'm not saying it's not too many. I'm just saying there needs to be clear responsibilities
00:41:54there. And I think that's something that's going to be essential for Drake.
00:41:58I agree that differentiation is important. One thing that's nice,
00:42:02last year with the coaching staff, I feel like one of the biggest issues, especially on offense,
00:42:06there were so many guys who didn't really have experience together. You had Bill O'Brien,
00:42:10then he's got Adrian Clem. He's got Troy Brown. He's got a guy, Will Long, of course,
00:42:14he brought with him from Alabama, but these were guys he didn't really have experience with. And
00:42:18it started to sound like as the year went on, there was some difference in messaging and in
00:42:22communication. They weren't really on the same page. McAdoo and Van Pelt did work together in
00:42:26Green Bay. Van Pelt and T.C. McCartney worked together in Cleveland. So at least they could
00:42:31probably get the same messages. That's a really key point, Taylor, because just going back to
00:42:36Carolina briefly, all those coaches I mentioned, nearly none of them worked together. They were
00:42:41essentially creating the, remember when the Eagles had that dream team, quote unquote roster,
00:42:46they brought Ben Cheong and all these different guys. Big name dudes didn't necessarily have the
00:42:51chemistry together, blow up by mid-season on both the dream team and the Carolina Panthers.
00:42:57The fact that you have a coach who worked together, a little bit less ego, like the reality
00:43:02is we don't see it as much. Coaches have egos too. Every single coach, whether they say it or not,
00:43:07on that office of staff wants to be attached to Drake Mays' development because if he makes it,
00:43:12they make it. Let's just call it what it is. If Drake Mays became a superstar, you know who's
00:43:18going to be a head coach in the next five years? Alex Van Pelt, maybe Ben McAdoo, maybe T.C.
00:43:24McCartney's an offensive coordinator. Let's just keep it real. Everybody wants to get promoted in
00:43:28their ranks. And so everybody wants to be attached to development. That's fine. This is not a negative.
00:43:34You just don't want it to be to the detriment of the kid where everybody is trying their best to
00:43:39have their stamp on him rather than saying, hey, what's the best thing for him? And so the fact
00:43:44that Mayo already knows that and he says we're on the same page, now you got to see it because
00:43:49saying you're on the same page and doing it is one thing. But I think that to me is one of the
00:43:54key elements for young quarterback. Who is the guy? Houston did a really good job of it in that
00:44:00Bobby Slowick and Gerard Johnson, those are his guys. Those are CJ's guys. And Gerard works pretty
00:44:07much exclusively with CJ as far as like footwork, mechanics, things in that respect. Bobby works with
00:44:13him with a lot of game plan elements, the scheme, how you're going to do things on the field. And
00:44:17they both come together with this film to make it together, a two-man team. Like I said, I don't know
00:44:22if three is too many or just enough or too little. It's no right number, but the cohesiveness,
00:44:29I think, is a huge part. Fit is such a huge part for coaching staff for quarterback success. So
00:44:36that's something that I love. We'll see how it works schedule-wise, but I love to come back
00:44:40and training camp and get some more time with these guys in the office side and kind of see
00:44:45where they are with Drake and maybe if there's some roles that are more clearly defined by that
00:44:50point. And honestly, talking to Drake about what he gives, because the quarterback will tell you,
00:44:54the quarterback will tell you who he's getting more insight with. You'll hear it just in his
00:44:59phrasing, like just pay attention to this and we'll transition to the next topic from this.
00:45:05As you guys talk to Drake May in July and August, listen to his messaging and listen to what it
00:45:13attached to wording-wise. Obviously, you'll hear some things from Gerard in his messaging,
00:45:17but players repeat messaging for the coaches they are gathering the most from, that they are taking
00:45:24the most information from. And so, for example, I'll use Miami from a perspective here because I
00:45:30spend a lot of time with them. Tua changed dramatically how he started to talk about his
00:45:36coaches when Mike McDaniel took over. And you start hearing him talk directly about Mike or
00:45:42Darryl Bevel, their quarterback coach, and how they're directly influencing something that he's
00:45:46putting into fruition. And so, I think that's something you'll see with Drake and my expectation
00:45:52is that you'll see a lot of mention of Alex Van Pelt and Ben McAdoo. You mentioned the cohesiveness
00:45:58right before we move on. Gerard Mayo got some crap because he started the off-season program a
00:46:03week later than he was able to. And he said, I just want to make sure we're all on the same page.
00:46:07And I'm thinking, hey, if you're thinking long-term, I think a week, if you think that's
00:46:10what you need to make sure everyone's preaching the same message, that's hugely important. And
00:46:14you also hope that Alex Van Pelt, who's been referred to as a glue guy, like Aaron Rodgers,
00:46:18when he was fired from Green Bay, Rodgers was not happy. You hear that even with the Browns,
00:46:23not Kevin Stefanski, but other people on that staff were not happy that he was fired.
00:46:27It was reported that it was because he wasn't developing Deshaun Watson. Well,
00:46:31people were saying, no, this was the blue guy on our staff. Stefanski is his own personality.
00:46:35He does his thing. Van Pelt was the one who kept people together. So you're hoping that
00:46:39translates in this new role with, again, reuniting with McAdoo and bringing TC McCartney.
00:46:43We're going to wrap the show up with some talk about some non-quarterback players,
00:46:47non-front office stuff. But first, quick word from our friends at game time. Be right back.
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00:48:03lowest price guaranteed. First real quick, you've all been amazing in the chat. Really appreciate
00:48:10the love. Want to give a shout out to many men. Thank you so much. That means a lot. We're having
00:48:15fun, man. This has been a great chat. All right. We will wrap it up with some talk about, again,
00:48:19non-quarterback, switch things up a little bit. When it came to the first round, I think everybody
00:48:24understood the Patriots got really good value in Drake May. Fourth round, I even feel like it was
00:48:28understood Jaylon Pope, or I'm sorry, Jayvon Baker was a great, great value. Then I feel like there
00:48:35was a little mixed opinions when it came to the middle of those. Jaylon Pope, there were some
00:48:39rumors that the Patriots may wanted to trade up for Keon Coleman or Xavier Leguette. He was my guy,
00:48:44but I'm glad he gets to stay close to home in Carolina. Then you also heard about Caden
00:48:49Wallace. People were saying, oh, he's kind of reaching left tackle. I understand it's kind of
00:48:53tough when a guy switching positions. I personally thought, hey, he's the best tackle on the board.
00:48:57If you're confident, go get him. And then Leighton Robinson. Now I did hear that maybe they were
00:49:01connected to a receiver at that point and then got jumped obviously by the Broncos. They took
00:49:06Troy Franklin, but I think it was for the best because I love Jayvon Baker. I'm all for it.
00:49:10But what were you hearing about kind of that middle part of the draft for the Patriots? Did
00:49:14it sound like maybe the initial plans they had were thwarted by the efforts of some other teams?
00:49:19And did they truly get their guys? Or like some people are kind of speculating that maybe they
00:49:23had some panic picks. That's not what I think, but I'm just opening the floor.
00:49:26Yeah, I'll start with 34 because you kind of hit on a nail there. It's funny. I reported a little
00:49:31bit of this before, but they tried to get into the back of that first round. They were trying,
00:49:35they made calls for a few different picks and they thought they had something at 32 with the
00:49:39Bills. The Bills had just traded back with the Chiefs in 28-32 and they wanted to get to 32.
00:49:45And they had Xavier Leggett and Keion Coleman graded pretty similarly on their board. I don't
00:49:51know exactly which one they would have taken if they got in 32, but those were their top two
00:49:56receivers on the board at that time. Keion Coleman, Xavier Leggett, they wanted to get to 32.
00:50:01They knew the Panthers were very highly interested in Leggett. And so they wanted to get there to
00:50:06get ahead of them so they can get their choice. And I guess my guess, like I said, I don't know
00:50:11for sure, but my guess is they would have taken Leggett at 32 and they would have taken Coleman
00:50:17if for some reason he wasn't there. Draft happens. And a little backstory here because
00:50:24the draft is funny and this happens all the time. You're just hearing a little bit of insight just
00:50:28because I learned it. So don't take this as a slight against the Patriots. It happens to every
00:50:32team. They called up to the Bills, division rival. Let's keep it 100. You're not necessarily
00:50:37trying to help out your division rivals. I talked to someone with the Patriots who
00:50:42felt a little jaded because they thought that they had a sort of on paper or close to
00:50:48an agreement with the Bills. And they believe that agreement was kind of shopped to the Panthers
00:50:52because the Panthers have a relationship with Dan Morgan, Brandon Bean. They have that bond.
00:50:58And it's honestly a lower drop for the Bills. They're not helping their division rival. So I
00:51:02get it. They're not helping a division rival and they get to drop one spot and still get some
00:51:06value. So the Bills who also needed a receiver may have had their eyes on both of those same
00:51:12receivers and said, Hey, we don't care. We'll get more value. And they traded back, but ultimately
00:51:17they ended up not getting up there, being able to move. And so their top two Coleman and Leggett
00:51:22both got picked there. And so you hear all the time, Hey, we got the guy we wanted. He was going
00:51:28to be our pick no matter what. That wasn't the case here. The Patriots would have loved to have
00:51:31Keon Coleman or Xavier Leggett. It did not work that way. Elliott Wolfe did not panic there.
00:51:36Like the easy pick would have been saying, okay, who's the next receiver on our board,
00:51:40which was Jalen Polk for them. Let's just go ahead and take him and keep it moving. For them,
00:51:45they ended up trading back three picks, getting that upgrade to the fourth round pick. And they
00:51:49ended up using that to get Javon Baker. And so it ended up being a little bit of a double dip.
00:51:55And so, you know, there's a little bit more pick scenarios coming in it, but I think if you're a
00:51:59Patriots fan and you want to look at the positive, if you were Xavier Leggett fan like you, or if
00:52:03you're a Keon Coleman fan and you're like sad about that, or you're kind of lukewarm on Jalen
00:52:08Polk, look at it this way. They essentially double dipped getting Jalen Polk and Javon Baker for what
00:52:14it would have cost to get Xavier Leggett or a Keon Coleman. And so as you track this for the years to
00:52:22come, it's going to be Jalen Polk and Javon Baker versus one of those two receivers. Is the combined
00:52:28effort of those two Patriot players more valuable for that? Now, as you get into the middle rounds,
00:52:33as you mentioned, they definitely were prioritizing offense line. I think the fact that Baker was still
00:52:38available as a second receiver was like a pleasant surprise for them. I think they wanted, they would
00:52:43have liked to get a second receiver, but after they took Polk, the priority was offense line.
00:52:49And if you remember, I think the back end of the second round, there was a little bit of
00:52:52a run on tackles. I think the kid from BYU went, I think there was another kid that went at the
00:52:58bottom of that round, I think either to KC, I think KC got one. And then there was another
00:53:02team that got one and there was another team that got one in the top of the third round.
00:53:06I don't know which one, but I think at least one of those was going to be the target for the Patriots
00:53:11if he got there at 68. He didn't get there. They were talking about trading back because I think
00:53:16they understood the value for Caden Wallace may not have been an early third. I think they might
00:53:21have been like, hey, if we could have got him in the middle of the third or later in the third,
00:53:24the value quote unquote might've been better. But if you watch guys who you had a little bit
00:53:30lower grade on than they went, go at that stage at offense tackle. And you got to say, we got
00:53:36here at offense. We can play a game and say, hey, let's trade back 15 spots and maybe he'll still
00:53:43be there. But what if he's not? And then we got to go to our next. And so we're just downgrading
00:53:47talent. So I think for them that might've been one where, Hey, they might've quote unquote reached,
00:53:52you know, maybe a grade higher around or higher than maybe they would have normally picked him.
00:53:56But he was a guy that was rising a lot in the draft process. I think, I think early on,
00:54:02I thought a scout told me he was going to be more of a fifth, sixth round pick as he went
00:54:06through the draft process. I think most people thought he was going to be an early day three,
00:54:10or even sneaking into the back of, of day two and the third round pick.
00:54:14And so this wasn't like, this is a fifth or sixth round pick at that stage. They took him in a third
00:54:19round. He was probably going to be a late third round, early fourth round pick on most people's
00:54:24boards. And all you need is one team to say, Hey, I'm gonna take them early in third round
00:54:28for you not to get them. So I think that's the thing there. Same thing where Leighton Robinson,
00:54:32I think that's another player where he might've been able to get him a half around, maybe around
00:54:37later. But I think they just thought the value there for getting an offensive lineman was too
00:54:43good for them, or the fact they can get an offensive lineman they like was too good to
00:54:47kind of play that game and pass back. Like the, the theme of playing the game and trading back,
00:54:53I think was a common theme for the Patriots. I mentioned in an article, Dry Mail had even said
00:54:58it there when it came to Drake May, he was like, I don't want to play this game where we just trade
00:55:01back three picks just to get more picks, but we miss our player. Right. And so I think the,
00:55:07the big thought there was if we like a guy, although we want more picks and they did get
00:55:13more picks in the, in the one trade back, um, we gotta get core guys. We need talent.
00:55:20We need talent. Like, yes, we need bodies, but we also need talent. And if the difference is,
00:55:25Hey, two C players versus a B player, we're going to take the B player.
00:55:29Most times it didn't work for the, the first trade up into the first round,
00:55:34cause they were trying to do that and say, Hey, we're going to sacrifice a pick
00:55:37to get a guy. We think it's a better than, than what we see in poke, but they pivoted
00:55:42and did the two for one route there. The rest of the draft. I think we saw them say, Hey,
00:55:46if we like a guy, we're going to take them and maybe it's a reach, but I think we like the
00:55:51player. And so I think that's what happened with the two offensive linemen there. And I think the
00:55:55fact that you see a Caden Wallace, who they think can play left tackle. We're going to see,
00:56:00I think most people I talked to thought he was going to be more of a guard or a right tackle,
00:56:03but you know, you look at a team that's going to be playing a lot more outside zone.
00:56:08Um, you don't need your offensive lineman to be this big burly dude.
00:56:12You need them to be able to move and Caden Wallace can move.
00:56:16What you detailed is why it's so tough to really analyze and grade these drafts
00:56:22because you really don't know when it's reported, it adds context, but you don't know,
00:56:26like the Patriots got criticized. They weren't being aggressive enough. Well,
00:56:29they were being aggressive. They tried to get a guy, then it didn't work out.
00:56:32And then there's also the fact that sometimes you do have to play the game. And if you like a guy,
00:56:37you have to stay put and you can get the criticism from all us outsiders and say,
00:56:40Oh, you could have got them. You know, like you said, a half round later, well, he's not there.
00:56:44What if he's not right. Right. And you don't go to the press college and be like, well,
00:56:48I know we, why y'all keep trading back? Why did y'all kick? Well, we thought a guy was going to
00:56:52be there and he wasn't there. And then our next guy wasn't there. And all of a sudden you got
00:56:56all these fit for six round picks and a draft where honestly, it's not a great draft to have
00:57:01a bunch of six round picks. I talked to a lot of teams and I think it was reported a lot publicly,
00:57:05um, on the draft broadcast too, because 58 underclassmen, usually that number is closer to
00:57:11150. A lot of NIL guys came back to school and say, you're happy. You're losing a round or two
00:57:17of draft talent. And so a lot of the guys that won the sixth or seventh round were probably going
00:57:21to be UDF phase. It was a normal, um, normal, uh, draft class. And so I think somewhere around
00:57:28the end of the fourth round, early portions of fifth round, you saw a huge drop off and talent.
00:57:33And so I think really that's where you saw teams say, okay, it's not worth trading back at some
00:57:38point, or if we're going to trade back at this stage, we're just going to get next year's picks
00:57:43instead of just getting more picks in 20, 20, uh, four. And if you're a Patriots fan,
00:57:47I think you can probably sleep better at night knowing your team had conviction and took a guy
00:57:52they liked versus like you said, trading back, probably missing on a guy. And then it's like,
00:57:55Oh, look at all these picks with players that, you know, at this stage might be able to make
00:57:58our roster or give us the same level of talent. I'm going to close on a bit of a fun question.
00:58:03Yeah. Joe Milton said no shot that he's not playing. Bazooka Joe. Now I love the talent.
00:58:11He's an exciting player. And I think Alex Van Pelt with his creativity is going to maximize
00:58:14what he can do at the same time. I think we have to be honest based on what we saw. There are a lot
00:58:20of things missing from a real quarterback perspective. Now, again, he said he was going
00:58:24to play quarterback. Gerard Mayo said he was drafted as a quarterback, but did not close his
00:58:28door to a position change. So last thing, do you think that Joe Milton will be a quarterback for
00:58:34the foreseeable future? Or do you think at some point, maybe if there's not enough reps in camp,
00:58:38or he doesn't really show them what they want to see early on, that we could see him maybe try
00:58:42out in different positions, which I do want to underline is not easy. People train their entire
00:58:47lives to be tight ends and don't make it. It's like, I want that to be very clear. But at the
00:58:50same time, if you want to make it in the NFL, sometimes you do have to see if you have
00:58:54capabilities to other spots. Yeah. I think he's a quarterback and I think they're going to let
00:58:57him try to be a quarterback. I think that's until proven otherwise, I think that's what you'll see
00:59:03him be. Now I wouldn't surprise me at some point, and I'm not saying it in year one,
00:59:07I'm saying at some point, if he learns the offense, if you realize his skillset is just
00:59:13too good for him to sit on the bench, if he ends up getting a package of some sort,
00:59:19or he's playing a little bit more of a hybrid role, not that he changes positions, but for lack
00:59:25of a better phrase, because he's the most popular one, a Taysom Hill type phrase. It doesn't have
00:59:29to be the same, but another player who can add a dynamic and even more significantly for you,
00:59:35you got an athletic quarterback in Drake May, but he's not a type of guy you're probably going
00:59:39to want to be running a QB power on, on third and three on a regular basis. Maybe that's a
00:59:45situation where, hey, Joe's coming in and Joe's got a lot about, we always talk about his arm,
00:59:50but Joe's a really athletic runner as well. And so maybe that's something you utilize that for.
00:59:57I heard some people talk about Hail Marys. Drake May's got to be a pretty big arm too. I don't
01:00:00think he's going to want to come off the field on Hail Marys once he's on the field either.
01:00:04But obviously he's got that capability too. The reality is they got him as a six round pick. And
01:00:09again, I told you six and seventh round picks probably would have been undrafted in most drafts.
01:00:13Maybe somebody takes a shot on Joe because of the upside. But I think right now he's a very
01:00:18much a developmental prospect, a third quarterback, a guy where his goal right now should be focusing
01:00:24on making the team and learning rather than figuring out what his role is. And so I think
01:00:28year one, year two, as you see time go on, maybe he gets to a point where he can earn that backup
01:00:33job full right. And the other thing about that is he gives you a scout team look every week for a
01:00:40big arm athletic quarterback. And so certain things like this are valuable that I don't think a lot of
01:00:44people look at. I don't know if Joe's ever going to be a starting quarterback in this league. He's
01:00:49got some accuracy issues for sure. Sorry. Kind of a side story here. Random fact about me. I grew
01:00:59up a Tennessee Vols fan. Before I went to Houston Cougars, I went to University of Houston. And so
01:01:05I'm a big Coug. And so I root for my Cougs for sure. But every, I don't even honestly don't know
01:01:12how, but since seven years old, I've been a Vols fan. So I've watched, the reason why this
01:01:18significant, I've watched pretty much every game and throw that Joe Milton's ever thrown just as a
01:01:22fan. Like I watched Tennessee Vol. And so I know his game pretty well, what he can and can't do.
01:01:27There was a lot of hope for him coming after Henny Hooker this past year. He wasn't quite that,
01:01:32that accuracy passer. And I don't know if he ever is that player, but I think that you,
01:01:38you try to develop him, you utilize what he can do well. And I think the goal to me for him as a
01:01:44six round pick, if he can end up being a long-term backup for Drake May, then I think you've got a
01:01:49great value out of that pick. Okay. This has been a ton of fun, man. I do, I already got you for an
01:01:55hour. So I want to give you the rest of your night before I let you go, please just let the
01:01:58people know where they can find you and what great stuff you got coming down the pipeline that we
01:02:02should be looking out for. And of course, plug the piece you already had, which was fantastic.
01:02:06A great read. If you haven't checked it out yet. Yeah. Appreciate you Taylor. I told you when I saw
01:02:10you at Foxborough, man, I make time for you. You know, I'm sure all your fans know you're,
01:02:14you're great at what you do. I followed you on social for a while. I get a lot of insight about,
01:02:19you know, your breakdowns of where the paths are. And you know, I think that stuff has value for me,
01:02:24especially another young brother in here. I want to see you succeed. And so I will,
01:02:28I don't give an hour of my time post draft to a lot of people, but I will give it to you.
01:02:32And, and so, you know, definitely continue to support him and support his work. Good people
01:02:38doing good things. As far as me, you can follow me on social at Cameron wolf, put that E on the
01:02:42end of the wolf. That that's me on, on, on Twitter. And then Cameron D wolf on Instagram.
01:02:49That's how you'll find me there. And you'll see him on the NFL network. I'll actually be,
01:02:52I don't know when this is Aaron, but Thursday I'll be on TV talking a little bit more Patriots.
01:02:57And so you'll, you can catch me there on NFL network for path to the draft. We do one more
01:03:01week of past to the draft after the draft. So that'll come on Thursday night. And then yeah,
01:03:06you kind of check me out on these channels throughout. One other thing I like the pub
01:03:11I did a podcast with Steve Smith and James Palmer this what was that earlier this week
01:03:17talked a lot of wide receivers. So you know, for those people who want to hear more about
01:03:22Jalen Polk and Jayvon Baker and Steve Smith's view of those players, definitely tune in.
01:03:27We talked a lot of that. I gave my insight, but Steve is a breakdown of receivers. And so
01:03:32he gave a comparison of Jalen Polk to TJ Hoosman's out of that's his comp for him.
01:03:37And so you hear a lot about his perspectives of Polk and Baker on that chat as well.
01:03:43Hope you get some time to yourself as well, man. You are very, very,
01:03:46Oh, I will. I will. It's F1 weekend in Miami. So I'm going to be at the races this weekend.
01:03:51Oh, yeah. Enjoy for the both of us. All right. Thank you so much again for your time and for
01:03:54the kind words. It means a lot. And thank you all as always for watching. Now, take care of
01:03:58yourselves. Take care of each other. We'll see you next time. Peace.