• 5 months ago
Taylor Kyles from CLNS Media is joined by NFL Network's National reporter Cameron Wolfe to discuss the Patriots draft and what changes are being made under the team's new regime.

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#Patriots #NFL

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Transcript
00:00:00What's going on everyone? Taylor Kyle's here for CLNS Media coming at you with another
00:00:26episode of Pat's Daily brought to you by our good friends at PrizePix and GameTime.
00:00:31Patriots draft is in the books. We're kind of in the wake of it. We're starting to feel
00:00:35like, all right, how good was this draft? I don't know about you guys. I'm still feeling
00:00:39pretty good riding that wave. And I brought on somebody today who was actually on site
00:00:44before the Patriots drafted, during and after, and got some really interesting insight into
00:00:49not only what was going on last weekend, but also some of the culture shifts and internal
00:00:54changes that are happening inside the Patriots building. So without further ado, NFL National
00:00:59Reporter for NFL Network, Cameron Wolf. Cam, how you doing? Especially coming off one of
00:01:05the busiest weeks of the year. You okay? I'm good. I'm good. It's all green grass in front
00:01:10of us. The good thing about the off season is the draft is actually the start. When the
00:01:16draft ends, it's kind of the start of our off season. So I was like, hey, push past
00:01:20the draft. And then there's a lot in the future, head free, a lot of golf for me, a
00:01:25lot of hanging out. I live in Florida, so hanging out by the water. But it's still great
00:01:30to unpack the draft because it's my, other than, you know, the playoffs, it's probably
00:01:36my favorite football event because no matter what team you root for, there's so much hope,
00:01:41right? Like the playoffs, it's just the elite teams of that year, the Super Bowls, the two
00:01:46best teams. The draft, everybody has hope, right? The draft, you can picture what your
00:01:52team looks like for the future and really get a vision of how you're trying to build.
00:01:57And, you know, a guy like me, I came up as a fan making my own mock drafts on paper as
00:02:04like a seven or eight year old kid, you know, writing it down of what I, and so like to
00:02:08me, this whole episode of doing it and getting paid for it for a job is still surreal. And
00:02:13so I always, always soak in this time and then always seeing 21, 22 year old kids get
00:02:18to live their, their life dream. So this week was cool for me. And then I got to see kind
00:02:24of the inside look of the New England Patriots. I think for so long, they've been this, this
00:02:28kind of, I don't know, the, the, what do you call it? The, the evil empire from people
00:02:33outside of the building of like, you don't know what's going on. You just know they're
00:02:37really, really good at what they do. Right. And Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, a dynasty,
00:02:42six titles, but that's all over. And so how do you move past that? What is the new identity?
00:02:49And you start with a new quarterback and Drake may. So learned a lot this week and wrote
00:02:53about it on nfl.com with a piece of kind of diving into some stories there and talked
00:02:58about it on TV. And we'll be covering it a bunch throughout the year and the years ahead
00:03:03of what the draw Mayo Patriots will look like. Absolutely read that piece. If you haven't
00:03:08already, we're going to touch on a lot of the points just to get your insight into that.
00:03:11But like you mentioned, you were on the ground, it's a time for hope and all that good stuff.
00:03:15So obviously we have to see what's going to happen with this organization. Things change.
00:03:19We'll see if the changes they're making are actually going to pay off. What was the vibe
00:03:23that you got before we get into the nitty gritty of those changes? How did it feel kind
00:03:27of leading up to the draft? And then once they got Drake may, what were things like?
00:03:30Yeah, it was jovial, honestly. I'm not a spirit, honestly, that I'm used to feeling when I
00:03:36get to the, the Foxborough Boston area, even when they've been winning, it's always been
00:03:40a business light atmosphere. And I got happiness. I got joy. I got one of the first elements
00:03:48I got when I arrived to the facility on Wednesday was dry mail welcoming me into his office.
00:03:54You know I can guarantee you if Bill Belichick was here, I would not have been welcomed to
00:03:59attend this office for, it ended up being 35, 40 minutes talking ball. And I don't,
00:04:04I don't, Bill Belichick didn't have anything against me. That's just not his way. It doesn't
00:04:08mean it's right or wrong. It's just a different way of being. And so it's funny. I had my,
00:04:12a bunch of my colleagues joke with me when they learned I had this assignment, it was
00:04:16like, good luck of like, it's going to be, you know, a difficult storm and, you know,
00:04:20credit to, to, to the Patriots, they're doing things their way. You know, Gerard's doing
00:04:24things his way, Ellie is doing things his way and they're willing to do things differently.
00:04:29And you know, Gerard welcomed me in, Stacey James was, was okay with it and it kind of
00:04:34set everything. And so like all of those things kind of set and shifted my expectations
00:04:39from that Wednesday of like, Hey, this may be a difficult challenge to try to work with
00:04:44this team to, Hey, this is really the new New England Patriots. And so I'd say that's
00:04:49my, that was my first vibe, just kind of seeing just kind of the, the reaction on people's
00:04:55faces around the building. I was walking through the facility and you see different coaches.
00:04:59I ran into Matthew Slater, who's now working with dry mail and, you know, you just kind
00:05:04of get a different energy, you get a different vibe. And you know, the reality is they have
00:05:10not lost any games yet. They are zero and zero. It's a rebuilding team and you know,
00:05:15the butterflies and sunshines and rainbows, all of that sounds good in April when you
00:05:19haven't lost any games in May at this point. But you, you got to see how things hit when
00:05:25they actually hit. But I thought this team had already started to show a ways they were
00:05:31different. I talked with Gerard Mayo in his office. And one of the first things he told
00:05:34me was, Hey, if Bill Belichick was here, we'd probably trade back. And, but we're, we still
00:05:40believe in trading back, but we very much believe at three, we have to get a cornerstone
00:05:45player. And, you know, I had a pretty, pretty strong idea. We're not allowed to tip picks
00:05:50an NFL network, but I had a pretty strong idea and I tried to make it as clear as possible
00:05:54in my reporting that Drake May was the, was the guy, unless you got that Godfather offer,
00:06:00but even something as simple as those two elements, the fact that, you know, Gerard
00:06:04had a lot of different elements as he's starting, the fact that they're open to staying at three
00:06:09instead of trading back, the fact that they're willing to change their draft philosophy,
00:06:15their draft grading system, which we'll talk about a little later with Elliot Pope and
00:06:19how they go about things like these are things of like, Hey, I know we have done things a
00:06:23certain way and we've been very good at it, but it's a new person in charge.
00:06:28And I am not going to just try to replicate where, what Bill Belichick did. That's just
00:06:32not no matter if Gerard came up under him, no matter the fact that Elliott spent the
00:06:36last four years there, they're their own men. And for better or for worse, you're going
00:06:41to get the male Wolf May Patriots, not just the off branch of the Bill Belichick Patriots.
00:06:48One, I'm glad it was a pleasant surprise. Your trip went a little better than you expected
00:06:52more open. And like you mentioned,
00:06:54The weather was great too. I told you I'm a Florida guy. I'm not going to lie. I heard
00:06:58it was a lot of rain. And the first day I showed up sunshine, not a cloud in the sky.
00:07:03And I'm like, this must be a sign. This must be a sign.
00:07:06I think you brought it with you. I think you're being a little too modest there. You helped us
00:07:09out a little bit because it's been up and down. So thank you for that. But like you mentioned,
00:07:13they're not trying to replicate what Belichick did. And there's been some times this off season
00:07:18you know, Gerard and Elliot, they kind of got themselves in trouble, right or wrong.
00:07:22We're kind of trying to separate themselves and be like, no, we are doing our own thing.
00:07:25But at the same time, they both have acknowledged that they do respect the things that Bill
00:07:29Belichick did. And multiple times this off season, you've heard Gerard Mayo show reverence
00:07:33for Bill Belichick and all the different ways that he influenced him. So actually you mentioned
00:07:38the draft. We'll go with that. I am curious in what ways from what you saw are things
00:07:42different and also the same in the draft philosophy. I feel like, like you said,
00:07:46the fact they stuck in Cook Drake may like from watching all the past quarterback drafts and
00:07:51things or Patriots drafts. I was very worried that they were going to go back and get J.J.
00:07:55McCarthy, who I had nothing against him. But I'm like, hey, man, you're going up against some of
00:07:58the best quarterbacks in football in the AFC. You need someone like Drake May who can physically
00:08:03keep you in games. And then you rise them up to the mental capacity where he could be more
00:08:07competitive. So what did you see in terms of that difference from the front office and the way they
00:08:11did things last weekend? Yeah, I actually start with Elliot Wolf because the reality of the Bill
00:08:16Belichick era was even when it was great, even when it was bad, you get Bill Belichick as both
00:08:21the coach and the general manager. And so you get him as the end all be all. In this current regime,
00:08:28it's Gerard Mayo and Elliot Wolf as completely separate men. Elliot Wolf's having full control,
00:08:33but Elliot Wolf, even though he spent the last four years for the Patriots, has largely been
00:08:37a Green Bay Packer for most of his career. So this isn't a guy who built himself and his principles
00:08:43up in New England like most of the people in New England. They've had a lot of we promote
00:08:48internally. And so everyone who had got to the top had always learned a certain way. Elliot's
00:08:54learned a different way. And I learned in the process, one of the first things he did in this
00:08:58draft process is to change the grading system, just kind of make it as simple as I can for folks.
00:09:04The Patriots fit based system as far as their draft board. And what I mean by that is they
00:09:11will only have people on their board who they feel like that could fit in this particular role
00:09:14within their offense, within our defense, that fits a certain type of player they are trying
00:09:19to look at. And so it didn't allow for maybe those outliers who were just incredible talents,
00:09:24but didn't necessarily fit into your three, four defensive end position or this type thing.
00:09:30Right. And so I think the first thing he did is change that to a, a value based system instead
00:09:35of a fit based system and say, Hey, fit batters. But at a certain point, the value becomes too
00:09:41great to worry about the fit. And it's like, Hey, if this is a top 10 player on our board,
00:09:46but he's not a great fit, if he's there at 25, then all of a sudden we don't, we start thinking,
00:09:53okay, maybe it becomes more worth that chance. And we'll figure out how to get them into our
00:09:57system. I think that's something that more teams than not use. And I think that's something that
00:10:03Elliot Wolf got from green Bay. And he's using that style along with Alonzo Highsmith,
00:10:08who came over and has a big role and changing your grading system within one off season is
00:10:14difficult challenge, but it seems like they, they, they were all in on doing that path.
00:10:18And so their draft board, I was told was about 200 players. A lot of times the Patriots under
00:10:23Belichick would have 125, sometimes less player draft board. And so you're just looking at a
00:10:29smaller group of pool of players to pick from. And then that often is why you get some of those
00:10:34picks where people were like, why are we getting a third round guy in the first round? Well,
00:10:38if you only got 10 first round players on your board and they all go off, then you're picking
00:10:44second and third round players in the twenties and thirties where the Patriots had long been
00:10:47picking. And so it doesn't mean that it's the right way versus the wrong way, but I think
00:10:51that's just a huge change that we saw within this draft. And so you see guys, you know,
00:10:57the Drake may pick, just start with that. Like Mayo told me, he thought they would trade back
00:11:02in that situation. And you heard for some of you guys, listen, Bill Belichick kind of break down
00:11:06the pick and, you know, talk about some of the things he felt like were issues with Drake May.
00:11:10And I think a long time in the Belichick era, it was like, Hey, we want as many shots that as we
00:11:16can get at players rather than, Hey, let's maximize this one spot. And so if you're,
00:11:21if you're looking at the bill area, you may be looking at a situation where they take that
00:11:25giants offer. Maybe they take that Vikings offer and say, Hey, we'll take our chances,
00:11:29whether it's JJ McCarthy or Michael Penning. So I also know they were high on, um, and we'll get
00:11:35the extra picks and we'll build that way. They felt the value for the quarterback and getting
00:11:40the right quarterback was, uh, more than enough to stay there. So I think that's a big principle
00:11:44there, even something as small as for Elliot Wolf. And I don't know if you guys noticed this
00:11:49on draft weekend, but they showed a picture of the draft room and the draft room had a lot of
00:11:54scouts and coaches in that area. The Patriots historically have had one of the smallest draft
00:11:59rooms as far as people inside there. Um, but Belichick often invited just maybe the coordinator,
00:12:04the head coach and the top scout executives. So you might have 10 or less people in your,
00:12:10your draft room. And here it was 30, 40 plus, you know, he invited any coach, any scout who
00:12:16wanted to be in there, in that room. And so I think it kind of creates an element where your
00:12:20scouts feel heard. You feel like you're a little bit more of a cohesive group, not just, Hey,
00:12:25this is Bill's show and that's it. So I think there's just some things that I guess stood out
00:12:31from me in the early portions. And then the most obvious beyond Drake may, they took five straight
00:12:37offense players. They, they put seven of their first eight players offensive. And it was not,
00:12:42this was not a big secret. Elliot Wolf said all off season, we're going to weaponize the offense.
00:12:47Gerard Mayo told me in the office before the draft, we're not picking a middle linebacker
00:12:51high in the draft. We're not picking a defense tackle. We're not picking a corner. You got what
00:12:55you got my head. We know what the issue is and we're going to fix the issue. And I think a lot
00:12:59of times you saw on the Belichick area, even when at the end, when the office was the issue,
00:13:04defense was still in the forefront of building this team. I think Gerard Mayo is saying, Hey,
00:13:09our defense is good right now. We got to fix the other side of the ball. And I think there
00:13:12was an intentionality of we're going to, you know, no matter, I'm sure they're picking their
00:13:17board as true, but if everything's equal, we're going to pick the offensive player.
00:13:21And even if it's not equal, but very close, we might still pick the offensive players. We know
00:13:25we got to get receiver and we did get a receiver and multiple receivers. We know we got to get
00:13:30offense lines and they got multiple offense alignment. I think it's just doubling down
00:13:34on your needs and we'll see if the players work out. I guess it doesn't matter if they all bust.
00:13:38But right now I think that they know what the issues are. They're attacking intentionally
00:13:43and they're surrounding their young quarterback with a young offensive talent in a way they didn't
00:13:49do when Mike Jones was the first round picker. Like you said, I think the Patriots are really
00:13:55just living up to a lot of the things they've said this off season where like you mentioned,
00:13:59weaponizing the offense and kind of the aggressiveness towards that. The one thing
00:14:03I think Mayo has said that got him in trouble was when he said, burn some cash, right?
00:14:09It was like, why would you say that? But it is kind of cool to see one, the transparency,
00:14:15but also that this group is really following through with what they said. They said,
00:14:19we're going to draft and develop. We're going to keep our guys that we feel are like conducive
00:14:22to what we're trying to do. And we've seen that happen, especially with the bar more extension.
00:14:26Yeah, I can bring his contract after Tom Brady and you're seeing they really are paying the guys
00:14:30that they feel like are part of their long-term plans. Another thing, like you mentioned,
00:14:34scouts actually being in the room, feeling heard. Rod Mayo said he wanted to knock down walls. That
00:14:39was day one. He wanted people to feel more included. And speaking to those walls,
00:14:44it's not just philosophical changes that we're seeing inside Gillette. We're also seeing some
00:14:49changes in terms of the building, the things on the wall, what they're saying in term, in addition
00:14:53to some philosophical changes. So what did you see actually in the building and how are they kind of
00:14:57changing the message from the typical, you know, do your job and all those types of mantras we saw
00:15:02with Bill Belichick? Yeah, it's interesting because for some people, this may be nothing.
00:15:06For some people, it may be everything, but I thought it was noticeable. I got to walk through
00:15:10one Patriot plate, saw some of the team meeting rooms and saw the hallways. And one of the first
00:15:16things I noticed as I'm walking, I'm like, there's no Patriot way sign up, you know, there's no do
00:15:21your job sign on the door. Like where did it go? And, you know, I'm walking the halls with Robin
00:15:25Glaser, who is, you know, the advisor for Drodd Mayo, but also executive vice president on the
00:15:32football business side of things. And I know there's a lot of people trying to figure out
00:15:35what her role is, what she's doing. She's not making football decisions. Like she didn't pick
00:15:40Drake May, but she's handling a lot of those business elements that honestly Drodd Mayo
00:15:45probably doesn't want to spend the time that it takes to allocate to. And so she's handling a lot
00:15:52of those administrative business elements and creative elements, like the wall transformation.
00:15:57That's really from my understanding, a passion of hers that she really wanted to put in fruition.
00:16:02And so taking some of the principles that Drodd wants his team to stand for and putting it on the
00:16:08wall himself, because, you know, and it's a delicate balance. And I think the Patriots are
00:16:12trying to deal with this, this particular, because it seems like everything that comes out is either
00:16:18a slight against Bill Belichick, attacking Bill Belichick or this and that. And I think they're
00:16:22trying to figure out how we navigate away from such a big figure and create our own landscape.
00:16:27Like this is Drodd's team. Like Drodd has to build a culture. I've covered so many different
00:16:34coaching changes and no matter what their style, the first thing, almost every coach says, hey,
00:16:38we got to build our culture. And they all have different principles. They all have different
00:16:43sayings. To me, I'm not really worried as much about the sayings. I mentioned some of them
00:16:48in the story, like hard works, works, progress or process, progress, payoff is another one of them.
00:16:56That's a theme of the season. You know, when we win, we win together. That's from Alex Van Pelt.
00:17:02These are things that are on the wall in the building are going to be principles for them
00:17:05going forward. And these are, you know, Drodd-Mayo kind of principles, kind of the same way Bill had
00:17:10his as well. I'm not as much worried about the actual phrases as much as like Drodd saying,
00:17:16I'm taking ownership of this team. I'm taking ownership of this building. This isn't just,
00:17:21hey, that's Bill's boy who's taken over after Bill lost some games. No, it's Drodd-Mayo,
00:17:28the head coach of the Patriots. And although I learned a lot from Bill and we're going to have
00:17:32some principles, I'm sure I learned from Bill. I'm my own man. And a part of that is redoing
00:17:38some of that. And so I think the balance is, hey, we're not trying to disrespect Bill,
00:17:42but at the same time, Bill is gone. Bill is not going to help us win any games in 2024 or 2025.
00:17:49It's going to be how they move forward. And so they have a picture of Bill in the hallway with
00:17:52some notable scouts and executives and coaches who've been there. So they definitely want to
00:17:58make sure to give him his respect. But this is a Drodd-Mayo envisioned building that kind of
00:18:03Robin Glazer brought to life. And there's like a really cool mural on the back wall that I talked
00:18:09about a little bit in the story. The Patriots are going to do a little bit more in the future
00:18:14and show that publicly. And so I don't want to spoil anything for people. So I just kind of
00:18:19give you a general idea, but it's really cool to see, especially like for me as a young Black guy
00:18:24at Drodd-Mayo as the first Black coach to ever be a part of this franchise.
00:18:28In a city, let's just keep it real, who has some, some people have questions of outside of the city
00:18:34of how they accept Black folk. And so I think that that's something that some people are
00:18:39uncomfortable talking about, but when you have a Black head coach, I think his identity and
00:18:43what he stands for is going to be an important part of that, especially in a league that is
00:18:48primarily Black. And so the mural that I'm referring to in the story is a young Black kid
00:18:53looking at, you know, some Patriots legends, like five or six different Patriots legends,
00:18:57including a Drodd-Mayo and sort of envisioning as time goes on, what he could be. Maybe he could be
00:19:04a future Patriot. And so I thought it was just a cool, you know, kind of art visual. And there's
00:19:09also an element that, that kind of has Patriots spelled out where it has a few different descriptions
00:19:14of, hey, what do you think Patriots should stand for? And there's a few different standings,
00:19:19sayings on there that kind of put into vision of like, hey, what do you think you as a Patriot
00:19:25should stand for? Like as a New England Patriot, not as a United States Patriot, but you guys get
00:19:30what I'm saying. And so I think that that's such a, just an interesting, it was just such an
00:19:36interesting, like 30 minutes of my, my weekend, because I had a vision of what the Patriots had
00:19:44long been. And I think as I spent more time, it was rewriting kind of that vision. And I actually
00:19:51reached out to Devon Godshaw, who I've had a relationship with for a while, defense tackle
00:19:55there. And I just simply asked him like, hey man, I know, you know, it's only been a few months,
00:19:59but what do you think about, you know, Gerard Mayo, does it feel different? And he's like,
00:20:03oh man, he said, Kraft, he's referring to Robert, not Jonathan. I know that's been a question here
00:20:08too. Robert Kraft made the best hire he could make and replacing Bill Belichick and Gerard
00:20:15Mayo. He was like, he is the right leader for us. And he was like, really, I have no other worries.
00:20:20We just have to get this offense right. He said, the defense is going to be great,
00:20:23but if we get this offense right, I think we're going to be back in the playoffs sooner than
00:20:27later. And so like that to me, and this is, this is a guy who as a veteran, I know him very well,
00:20:33he's not going to BS me. And so I'm often curious what the player perspective is, because a lot of
00:20:40things for new head coaches can be done for the PR perspective to, to show the outside national
00:20:47media or national public, or even the local public, this is what we are. But behind the scenes,
00:20:52the players are not connecting it with it. And players understand they feel fake. They feel
00:20:57where something's not authentic. Everything I've heard about Gerard has been extremely authentic.
00:21:02He is relatable. I have a quote in there where he talks about warmth before confidence,
00:21:07a phrase of his, I think he's used it publicly before, but he kind of went in depth with that.
00:21:12He's like, Hey, this is not the old era that I grew up in where you just tell players to do what
00:21:17they, they do. He was like, no, you have to build a relationship with them before you're tough with
00:21:21them. And he's like, you know, I will coach out of love and my staff will too. So he was very clear
00:21:27about how he wants to do things. It's no secret. Bill Belichick didn't roll that way. Bill Belichick,
00:21:32you know, there's probably not a lot of not saying he didn't love his players. I'm sure he did.
00:21:37You just probably didn't feel it on a day-to-day level, just the way he went about things. And
00:21:41that's fine. He won six championships that way. And so it was a winning way. It's just a different
00:21:46era. And I think that's something that Mayo really wanted to, to impact. And I think you're
00:21:52going to see a happier group, at least early on. Now, again, I will make this point again,
00:21:59because again, it's May, October happens your own four, you know, November happens. You're,
00:22:07you're one in seven or even October, 2025 happens and you're still one in five after a losing
00:22:15season. Then I think things change in perspective, but I think for right now, vibes have been great.
00:22:21Morale has been great. And it's been kind of eyeopening to me, just seeing how everybody's
00:22:26adjusting to really this new normal. And of course, like you said, losing can change things.
00:22:36The same as being a position coach or a coordinator, they are very different roles
00:22:40where you have a different level of pressure. But I remember one thing last year when players
00:22:43were being asked, you know, what do you think about Mayo as a potential head coach?
00:22:47So many players echo that, especially on the defensive side of the ball, of course,
00:22:50that he was the reason, even though they were losing, even though things weren't going great,
00:22:55they wanted to come in for him because he brought a different energy. He kept guys alert,
00:22:59wanting to play hard. And also the different perspective people were like, even in the game
00:23:03plans, he doesn't talk about football. The way most coaches talk about football, he makes it
00:23:07more about life. It's more kind of philosophical and just that different vantage point kind of
00:23:12makes it more interesting to listen to him. And obviously there's also the freshness of having,
00:23:16you know, there's some new defensive coaches, but also on offense, really it's an overhaul.
00:23:20So really just hearing a different message will be interesting, but I love that at least Mayo
00:23:24does give that difference in personality and kind of perspective for his players.
00:23:29Yeah. And one more thing I wanted to add there, like drop males, 38 years old player
00:23:34who played eight years in New England. Like, I think there's a lot of value. Not every coach
00:23:40has to be a former player, but I think there's a lot of value in him being not too removed from
00:23:46being a player himself. And so I think there's a certain connectivity there. But I will say this
00:23:52because I had heard a little bit about this when I wrote the story, when I talked about it,
00:23:56because there's always a balance, right? Like you always think, Hey, we, we had one style of coach.
00:24:02This always happens in coaching. You have one style of coach, you fire them and then you try
00:24:05to take the exact opposite. Draw males, not the exact opposite of bill Belichick draw.
00:24:10Mayo had a lot of bill Belichick principles. Like, I think that he is going to be tough on guys. I
00:24:15think that he's going to yell at guys. I think he's going to have discipline as a core tenant
00:24:20in his, his scheme and his coaching. Like, I don't think you get this. Like, I will say this,
00:24:26I cover, I cover, I live in Miami. So I cover the Miami dolphins a lot. I do not think that
00:24:30draw male is a Mike McDaniel style coach for better or for worse. Right. I think Mike McDaniel
00:24:37is a great coach. But I think that what my Daniel shows publicly is like this, this always happy,
00:24:44this always kind of players, player, players guy. And I think Gerard would be a player's coach,
00:24:51but I think as the year goes on, you'll see a little bit more of maybe, okay, that's, that's
00:24:56the building right there on that particular point. Right. I think it'll come out. And so
00:25:01although Gerard is very much his own man, I don't want people to get confused and say, Oh, well,
00:25:05this guy's a former player. They're just going to run all over him. He's just, you know, he's just
00:25:09here to be buddy buddy with the players. I think a lot of the reason why he's trusted is not just
00:25:14because players like him. It's because they feel like they can run behind him. They can like,
00:25:19he leads in a way that they understand, but they also respect. And so I think that like the coaches,
00:25:25even coach, I mentioned like in Mike McDaniel, I think you'll see a lot more of these style coaches
00:25:30when who realized the value of, as Mayo told me, like player mental health,
00:25:35building up confidence in a player. Like you got a guy in, in Drake may who's 21 years old.
00:25:41You got to understand the importance of building up his confidence. He's a confident dude. If you
00:25:45heard him talk, he's confident dude, he's been competitive all his life, but it's tough. If you
00:25:49throw them out there in the fire early in the season and he ends up getting sacked, throwing
00:25:53four interceptions in the game, who, how do you connect to him? I think that's going to be
00:25:59something that I think the new era has to recognize because, you know, you, if, if a player doesn't
00:26:05receive a certain type of coaching, well, he has a four interception game early in his career.
00:26:10You can break him just by how hard you are on him telling them he stunk. Why'd you make that
00:26:15decision versus trying to build them up, trying to feel positives out of them. And I think that
00:26:19the, the caring about players, that element is going to help him in individual development.
00:26:26And I think that's something this team will need immensely. So you're going to be a young roster,
00:26:31a roster that's going to take time. How do you develop players as they go through
00:26:35adversity, go through mistakes. And I think that's one thing that Gerard and he hopes is that
00:26:41we'll be able to bring through, even as they go through maybe some struggles early in the process.
00:26:46I mean, look no forward than the Mack Jones experiment where you had a guy who had lost
00:26:50all confidence because one, the support around him was not there. You didn't draft to make him
00:26:55better. And then you also had reports that Bill Belichick wasn't talking to him. Like that has
00:27:00to have on a young quarterback, like Matt's still 25 year old guy. Like as a person, he's still
00:27:05developing into not have support from someone who's so important to guide it. If you're in
00:27:09football, you probably looked up to at some point in your career and every new guy that's coming for
00:27:13the Patriots has alluded to the fact that Mayo was formerly a player and having that perspective
00:27:18of like, you know, Matt Light and Tom Brady would joke that he was Bill jr. Because whenever they
00:27:22were like, Oh, we don't want to be pads or we don't want to practice today. They would send
00:27:26Gerard and be, you know, not really about this and knowing both sides were like, yeah, sometimes
00:27:31you have to be a disciplinarian and to be great. You do need to get everything out of guys and
00:27:36really force them to kind of get out of their comfort zones. But also knowing again, as a
00:27:40player, sometimes you got to back off. You need to know who you're talking to. You need to. And I
00:27:44think this is so important. Prioritizing the player's mental health. These are something
00:27:48that some of these players may not even be thinking about is what's going on inside my
00:27:52head. Like, why am I feeling this way? Why is this happening? And to say, no, we're going to
00:27:56prioritize that to make sure that one, you know, that like you said, we're invested you as a human
00:28:01being, and then we also want to maximize you on the field, but that is secondary. So we got a lot
00:28:06more to talk about. We're going to get a little deeper into the draft, some great insights already
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00:29:16So like you mentioned, Drake may with someone, the Patriots seemed really excited to actually
00:29:20be getting. So I'm curious and what you were able to learn from your time there.
00:29:24One, why was Drake made the guy? I think we've heard some things from them,
00:29:28but obviously different perspective. And also another thing that they've talked about is
00:29:32not wanting too many guys in Drake Mase ear. So from what you know,
00:29:35do you have an idea of who's actually going to be talking to Drake main working with him?
00:29:39Cause I know Alex Van Pelt when he was in Cleveland, even though he was the offensive
00:29:43coordinator, he said, no, like I've had a lot of success with quarterbacks. I will be involved,
00:29:47but you've also got TC McCartney and Ben McAdoo. So how's that going to work out?
00:29:51Yeah. Well, two, uh, two good and separate, uh, topics. So I will say this, um,
00:29:57y'all just, let's keep it real from what I understand the Patriots would took whoever
00:30:01dropped to them out of the big three. Like you can make it. However, we fell in love with Drake
00:30:06may and, you know, we made this to them. It wasn't really a choice. Um, I know the JJ McCarthy stuff
00:30:12popped up late. My understood he was never really a consideration to be taken over. Drake may JJ
00:30:20would have been an option if they did decide, Hey, we want to take that Godfather trade offer
00:30:26and trade back to six or trade back to 11. Then maybe we look at the JJ McCarthy,
00:30:32Michael Pinnock's group, but they, they very much thought it was Caleb Williams,
00:30:35Jane Daniels, Drake may whatever word you want. I don't know for sure if Drake may would have been
00:30:39the pig. If for whatever reason, Washington went JJ McCarthy and shocks and folks like that would
00:30:46have been an interesting debate. I do know like, like Gerard male, like Jane Daniels a lot. He was
00:30:51very honest with me with that. Like, and I liked Jane Daniels a lot. I'm just going to be honest.
00:30:56I think Jane Daniels is going to be a star, not saying Drake can't be that player.
00:31:00I think Jaden's a little bit more ready right now. And you'll see that more immediate. And so
00:31:04if you're comparing, it may be something where, Hey, Caleb and Jaden, at least in my view are
00:31:09going to go out to the early league and they're going to look like the, you know, I don't know
00:31:14if they have a CJ Stroud type year, but one of them may be CJ Stroud. And you're sitting there
00:31:19with your quarterback. Like, are you sure we got the right one and wait two or three years?
00:31:24And I think Drake will be there with him. Right. And so I think the thought for Drake,
00:31:30once they realized it was going to be Caleb at one and Jaden at two was that, Hey, Drake can
00:31:36grow as we can grow. Like I think Gerard and Elliot are very honest with themselves, which I
00:31:42think is good that we are not a championship team. Like I included this anecdote later in the story.
00:31:47And I, you know, for those of you who read the story, I understand if you didn't get to this
00:31:52part, because it was a long story. It's like a 3000 plus word story I ended up with, but it was
00:31:57a cool anecdote. I felt like I wanted to put at the end Gerard had told me that he had the
00:32:01conversation with KJ Osborne after they had got him. And they were, he was essentially like, Hey,
00:32:05I told him straight up. We're not super bowl or bus. We're because you're here. We're not going
00:32:12to all of a sudden win a championship. Like I'm not going to sell you this stuff that a lot of
00:32:16people sell people to get free there. It's going to be a journey. And really we just want to
00:32:22be able to be really competitive, grow, and really play complimentary football and be able
00:32:28to make those hidden plays on social teams, the good plays on defense and grow as an offense.
00:32:33And I think that's a real realistic expectation for the Patriots. Like I know people will do
00:32:38these shows and may, June, July and say, Hey, what's considered as a set for. I don't know
00:32:44if there's a win amount that you can put on that, right? This is a four and 13 team.
00:32:49I do not believe they're going to make the playoffs in 2024. I'm sorry, Patriots fans.
00:32:54I'm just going to keep it real. I don't care how good Drake is year one. And I do think
00:32:59that he will play and start at some point in year one. I don't think that you will be a red shirt
00:33:05player. I do not think this is a playoff team. I think they still have a lot of holes on this
00:33:10roster. I think that they filled some potentially in, in the draft, but it's going to take some
00:33:15time. And so Drake also is not a finished product as a player. Some of the questions about Drake
00:33:22were, Hey, he's got sporadic accuracy. Sometimes when the pocket got a little bit messy,
00:33:27he moved out a little quickly. He may have missed some throws or miss some reads.
00:33:31They thought that he should have, should not have missed. And then you get to a situation where
00:33:36he's also a player where they, they, you haven't seen the fullness of a success that you've seen
00:33:44in a JJ, which national title, a Jayden winning a Heisman trophy. So like, is he going to be able
00:33:50to be at the elite of the elite? Is he going to be at a tap into all of those skill sets? We know
00:33:55he has a big arm. We know he's a really good athlete. We know that he can make every throw.
00:34:00Can he put it all together? I think those are all real questions for Drake. That is going to take
00:34:05time to be able to answer. He's only 21 years old. He's got tremendous upside, but as Mayo
00:34:12mentioned in the process, he's also got a floor. Like this is not a, a, a miss prospect. He has
00:34:18bust potential for wherever that's work, but you also got to take a chance.
00:34:22And we talked about this a little offline. Like you're picking in the top three,
00:34:26you're picking in the top five. Yeah. You're going to say, Hey, I'm going to hit a single
00:34:29for baseball term. I'm going to hit a single. I'm going to hit a double where, Hey, I know
00:34:33this guy's going to at least be a starter for five to 10 years. Right. You could certainly
00:34:38draft it. And I think JJ probably falls in that category for me. I think JJ McCarthy is going to
00:34:43be a starter on this lead for 10 years, at least now, whether he's the 11th best quarterback in
00:34:49football, the 19th best quarterback in football, if he touches somewhere in the top 10, I don't
00:34:54know, but I think that's where his ranges Drake. If he hits his full potential, he could be a top
00:35:00five quarterback in five years. Right. And I think that's why you're taking that swing.
00:35:04There's also a chance he doesn't work out because just keep it honest. And you may be looking for
00:35:09another quarterback in three or four years, but you've got to take that shot. And I think that's
00:35:13what they're doing here of saying he's got high end talent. And one thing that I think was not
00:35:18really portrayed a lot in the draft process that I learned a lot in the last week. And I tried to
00:35:23share those stories on TV and in the story, he's a competitive, competitive piece for lack of a
00:35:29better phrase. He's got some dog in him. It's weird. You listen to him talk. He's a Southern
00:35:35kid from North Carolina. He talks fast. He's just so jovial all over the place. And my first thought
00:35:41is, man, this is an interesting fit for Boston. There's not a lot of Boston that talk and move
00:35:50like Drake May. But I think that you start to get into who he is and you start to see
00:35:57that competitive nature. Something is small. And I talked about this in the story and on TV.
00:36:02The day before the draft, the night before the draft, he's playing four on four basketball
00:36:06in Detroit with his brothers. His dad's watching by, pins and needles, hoping he doesn't get hurt.
00:36:12You got millions of dollars on the line, son. Why are you going to risk breaking your ankle here
00:36:17with your brothers? And his brothers, it's funny, he calls himself the run of the family. He's 6'4",
00:36:226'5". But you look at his brothers, they're all 6'7", 6'8", 6'9". So he's the small guy who's
00:36:28been get beat up his whole life. And so that's his kind of roots. And so that was a cool kind
00:36:34of element for me, just kind of seeing that. And apparently Drake ended up killing it on the court
00:36:39that day, along with Luke May, who some of you guys will remember. He played for North Carolina,
00:36:44made the game winning shot in the lead eight against Kentucky the year they won the title.
00:36:48He plays basketball professionally in Japan now. And so apparently him and Drake were going crazy.
00:36:53And it's funny, I had interviewed Drake on Friday, a little one-on-one off to the side,
00:36:58and I had some fun with him. I asked him, is basketball a comp? He said, I'm an off-brand
00:37:02Jason Tatum. And I hear a couple of his brothers just groaning off the side, like, oh man,
00:37:07he's telling people he's Jason Tatum again. They probably have heard it so many times.
00:37:12And they're like, come on, man. That's not your game. But we always hype ourselves up a little bit
00:37:17more than what we are. But Drake can play some ball. Look at this high school tape.
00:37:20He can play some ball. But yeah, I think that you've got a guy who, and it was interesting
00:37:26because he used the comparison, and I think he was trying to be careful with this. But he used
00:37:30a Tom Brady reference, and mostly in reference of like, hey, the way he gets smacked in North
00:37:36Carolina. I don't know if this is something that Drake loved to hear as something that sold his
00:37:40head coach. But he was telling me, he was like, hey, the way Drake was getting smacked, he was
00:37:44like, it was just him out there sometimes. They didn't have a lot of real players. And he was
00:37:48just getting smacked. And he would get right back up, wouldn't bother him one bit. And it looked
00:37:52just, you know, just for a little bit, it looked like Tom Brady and the way he could take that
00:37:58punishment, just to take the punishment and get back up and do it again. And I could tell when
00:38:03Gerard was saying that, like, it did something for him. Like, he's a defensive guy. He wants to
00:38:08know if his quarterback is tough enough. And the toughness seems like it's not an issue. The
00:38:13competitiveness seems like it's not an issue. And then he's going to trust his coaches to be
00:38:18able to develop the other mechanics or whatever else it needs for him to become that player.
00:38:24I'll transition that to your second question. Got a little long-winded on this first part.
00:38:29Keep an eye on Ben McAdoo. I'll just say this. I don't know how the whole flow
00:38:33is going to happen as far as like what the communication is and Drake Helmet and all
00:38:37that stuff. I'm not going to BS you on that. I don't know how it's all going to fall out.
00:38:41But one thing I was told by Gerard and by multiple people, Ben McAdoo is going to have a huge role
00:38:48for Drake May. They hired him for a reason. I think that he's a quarterback savant. He's been
00:38:53a former head coach. And there's a thought there that he can develop Drake May. And so
00:38:59not saying that he's going to have more role than Alex Van Pelt, but I'd say that Ben McAdoo is
00:39:06going to have a really significant role in developing Drake May. And I think you're going
00:39:11to really want to listen to whenever Ben McAdoo gets a chance to talk to you guys, listen to
00:39:16whatever he feels like he's working on with Drake, because I think those are going to be principles
00:39:22that you see throughout the year, whether Drake started in week one or not. And so the last thing
00:39:27I'll say about the too many coaches in his ear, I thought it was a great point by Gerard and a good
00:39:32awareness because last year at this time, I was with another team. I usually just kind of
00:39:38perspective for me. They send me to a team every year for draft coverage. And it's usually, they
00:39:44give me a choice or two between teams for this year. I wanted to be in New England. I thought
00:39:48it was a very interesting story. And last year I was, they had the first overall pick there.
00:39:54They took Bryce Young. I did a lot of homework on that process. And I remember it was not brought up
00:40:00then, but they had so many different offensive coaches in mind. The thought there was, Hey,
00:40:06we created this all-star coaching staff. They went and got Thomas Brown and Jim Caldwell and Josh
00:40:12McCown. And, and, and you have Frank Reich, all these guys who are offensive guys. And there's
00:40:18few other guys in that building to potentially working with Bryce Young. And by like week three,
00:40:24I kept hearing that, like, there's so many voices in Bryce's head. He doesn't know what,
00:40:29what's going on. Like they're trying to tell Bryce this, they're trying to tell Bryce,
00:40:33we're going to do more, more shotgun Bryce, or we're going to do more under center.
00:40:36Bryce only wants to do shotgun. There's just so much going back and forth that like for a young
00:40:41guy, even somebody as smart as Bryce, cause that was the thing with Bryce and the pre-drive process.
00:40:46They were like, Hey, he can handle it all. He can handle a lot more than a typical rookie
00:40:51because of how he's come up and how he processes things. And I think because of that, they gave
00:40:58him way too much. Everybody wanted to be the guy like, Hey, I'm going to give you this insight.
00:41:02That makes you great. Or, Hey, let me get this little footwork thing here. Or if you look at,
00:41:06and I think there needs to be a clear lineage and there may already be internally, that's not
00:41:11something they have to share with us, but there needs to be a clear lineage of like, okay, who is
00:41:16responsible talking to Bryce pre-stack. You only have certain amount of time into the 15 second
00:41:22mark. How does it look like during game week? Is there a certain person that works with him
00:41:27during mechanics? Is it the same person that's working with him on his 15 yard intermediate
00:41:33routes and what he's seeing there? It was the same person that's looking at film with them.
00:41:37Like you got a quarterback coach, you got a Ben McAdoo, and then you have Alex Van Pelt,
00:41:42three really main guys that I think will have the most hands on him. I'm not saying three is too
00:41:47many. I'm not saying it's not too many. I'm just saying there needs to be clear responsibilities
00:41:54there. And I think that's something that's going to be essential for Drake.
00:41:58I agree that differentiation is important. One thing that's nice,
00:42:02last year with the coaching staff, I feel like one of the biggest issues, especially on offense,
00:42:06there were so many guys who didn't really have experience together. You had Bill O'Brien,
00:42:10then he's got Adrian Clem. He's got Troy Brown. He's got a guy, Will Long, of course,
00:42:14he brought with him from Alabama, but these were guys he didn't really have experience with. And
00:42:18it started to sound like as the year went on, there was some difference in messaging and in
00:42:22communication. They weren't really on the same page. McAdoo and Van Pelt did work together in
00:42:26Green Bay. Van Pelt and T.C. McCartney worked together in Cleveland. So at least they could
00:42:31probably get the same messages. That's a really key point, Taylor, because just going back to
00:42:36Carolina briefly, all those coaches I mentioned, nearly none of them worked together. They were
00:42:41essentially creating the, remember when the Eagles had that dream team, quote unquote roster,
00:42:46they brought Ben Cheong and all these different guys. Big name dudes didn't necessarily have the
00:42:51chemistry together, blow up by mid-season on both the dream team and the Carolina Panthers.
00:42:57The fact that you have a coach who worked together, a little bit less ego, like the reality
00:43:02is we don't see it as much. Coaches have egos too. Every single coach, whether they say it or not,
00:43:07on that office of staff wants to be attached to Drake Mays' development because if he makes it,
00:43:12they make it. Let's just call it what it is. If Drake Mays became a superstar, you know who's
00:43:18going to be a head coach in the next five years? Alex Van Pelt, maybe Ben McAdoo, maybe T.C.
00:43:24McCartney's an offensive coordinator. Let's just keep it real. Everybody wants to get promoted in
00:43:28their ranks. And so everybody wants to be attached to development. That's fine. This is not a negative.
00:43:34You just don't want it to be to the detriment of the kid where everybody is trying their best to
00:43:39have their stamp on him rather than saying, hey, what's the best thing for him? And so the fact
00:43:44that Mayo already knows that and he says we're on the same page, now you got to see it because
00:43:49saying you're on the same page and doing it is one thing. But I think that to me is one of the
00:43:54key elements for young quarterback. Who is the guy? Houston did a really good job of it in that
00:44:00Bobby Slowick and Gerard Johnson, those are his guys. Those are CJ's guys. And Gerard works pretty
00:44:07much exclusively with CJ as far as like footwork, mechanics, things in that respect. Bobby works with
00:44:13him with a lot of game plan elements, the scheme, how you're going to do things on the field. And
00:44:17they both come together with this film to make it together, a two-man team. Like I said, I don't know
00:44:22if three is too many or just enough or too little. It's no right number, but the cohesiveness,
00:44:29I think, is a huge part. Fit is such a huge part for coaching staff for quarterback success. So
00:44:36that's something that I love. We'll see how it works schedule-wise, but I love to come back
00:44:40and training camp and get some more time with these guys in the office side and kind of see
00:44:45where they are with Drake and maybe if there's some roles that are more clearly defined by that
00:44:50point. And honestly, talking to Drake about what he gives, because the quarterback will tell you,
00:44:54the quarterback will tell you who he's getting more insight with. You'll hear it just in his
00:44:59phrasing, like just pay attention to this and we'll transition to the next topic from this.
00:45:05As you guys talk to Drake May in July and August, listen to his messaging and listen to what it
00:45:13attached to wording-wise. Obviously, you'll hear some things from Gerard in his messaging,
00:45:17but players repeat messaging for the coaches they are gathering the most from, that they are taking
00:45:24the most information from. And so, for example, I'll use Miami from a perspective here because I
00:45:30spend a lot of time with them. Tua changed dramatically how he started to talk about his
00:45:36coaches when Mike McDaniel took over. And you start hearing him talk directly about Mike or
00:45:42Darryl Bevel, their quarterback coach, and how they're directly influencing something that he's
00:45:46putting into fruition. And so, I think that's something you'll see with Drake and my expectation
00:45:52is that you'll see a lot of mention of Alex Van Pelt and Ben McAdoo. You mentioned the cohesiveness
00:45:58right before we move on. Gerard Mayo got some crap because he started the off-season program a
00:46:03week later than he was able to. And he said, I just want to make sure we're all on the same page.
00:46:07And I'm thinking, hey, if you're thinking long-term, I think a week, if you think that's
00:46:10what you need to make sure everyone's preaching the same message, that's hugely important. And
00:46:14you also hope that Alex Van Pelt, who's been referred to as a glue guy, like Aaron Rodgers,
00:46:18when he was fired from Green Bay, Rodgers was not happy. You hear that even with the Browns,
00:46:23not Kevin Stefanski, but other people on that staff were not happy that he was fired.
00:46:27It was reported that it was because he wasn't developing Deshaun Watson. Well,
00:46:31people were saying, no, this was the blue guy on our staff. Stefanski is his own personality.
00:46:35He does his thing. Van Pelt was the one who kept people together. So you're hoping that
00:46:39translates in this new role with, again, reuniting with McAdoo and bringing TC McCartney.
00:46:43We're going to wrap the show up with some talk about some non-quarterback players,
00:46:47non-front office stuff. But first, quick word from our friends at game time. Be right back.
00:46:51With the NBA playoffs in full swing and the Celtics looking like the best team in the East,
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00:48:03lowest price guaranteed. First real quick, you've all been amazing in the chat. Really appreciate
00:48:10the love. Want to give a shout out to many men. Thank you so much. That means a lot. We're having
00:48:15fun, man. This has been a great chat. All right. We will wrap it up with some talk about, again,
00:48:19non-quarterback, switch things up a little bit. When it came to the first round, I think everybody
00:48:24understood the Patriots got really good value in Drake May. Fourth round, I even feel like it was
00:48:28understood Jaylon Pope, or I'm sorry, Jayvon Baker was a great, great value. Then I feel like there
00:48:35was a little mixed opinions when it came to the middle of those. Jaylon Pope, there were some
00:48:39rumors that the Patriots may wanted to trade up for Keon Coleman or Xavier Leguette. He was my guy,
00:48:44but I'm glad he gets to stay close to home in Carolina. Then you also heard about Caden
00:48:49Wallace. People were saying, oh, he's kind of reaching left tackle. I understand it's kind of
00:48:53tough when a guy switching positions. I personally thought, hey, he's the best tackle on the board.
00:48:57If you're confident, go get him. And then Leighton Robinson. Now I did hear that maybe they were
00:49:01connected to a receiver at that point and then got jumped obviously by the Broncos. They took
00:49:06Troy Franklin, but I think it was for the best because I love Jayvon Baker. I'm all for it.
00:49:10But what were you hearing about kind of that middle part of the draft for the Patriots? Did
00:49:14it sound like maybe the initial plans they had were thwarted by the efforts of some other teams?
00:49:19And did they truly get their guys? Or like some people are kind of speculating that maybe they
00:49:23had some panic picks. That's not what I think, but I'm just opening the floor.
00:49:26Yeah, I'll start with 34 because you kind of hit on a nail there. It's funny. I reported a little
00:49:31bit of this before, but they tried to get into the back of that first round. They were trying,
00:49:35they made calls for a few different picks and they thought they had something at 32 with the
00:49:39Bills. The Bills had just traded back with the Chiefs in 28-32 and they wanted to get to 32.
00:49:45And they had Xavier Leggett and Keion Coleman graded pretty similarly on their board. I don't
00:49:51know exactly which one they would have taken if they got in 32, but those were their top two
00:49:56receivers on the board at that time. Keion Coleman, Xavier Leggett, they wanted to get to 32.
00:50:01They knew the Panthers were very highly interested in Leggett. And so they wanted to get there to
00:50:06get ahead of them so they can get their choice. And I guess my guess, like I said, I don't know
00:50:11for sure, but my guess is they would have taken Leggett at 32 and they would have taken Coleman
00:50:17if for some reason he wasn't there. Draft happens. And a little backstory here because
00:50:24the draft is funny and this happens all the time. You're just hearing a little bit of insight just
00:50:28because I learned it. So don't take this as a slight against the Patriots. It happens to every
00:50:32team. They called up to the Bills, division rival. Let's keep it 100. You're not necessarily
00:50:37trying to help out your division rivals. I talked to someone with the Patriots who
00:50:42felt a little jaded because they thought that they had a sort of on paper or close to
00:50:48an agreement with the Bills. And they believe that agreement was kind of shopped to the Panthers
00:50:52because the Panthers have a relationship with Dan Morgan, Brandon Bean. They have that bond.
00:50:58And it's honestly a lower drop for the Bills. They're not helping their division rival. So I
00:51:02get it. They're not helping a division rival and they get to drop one spot and still get some
00:51:06value. So the Bills who also needed a receiver may have had their eyes on both of those same
00:51:12receivers and said, Hey, we don't care. We'll get more value. And they traded back, but ultimately
00:51:17they ended up not getting up there, being able to move. And so their top two Coleman and Leggett
00:51:22both got picked there. And so you hear all the time, Hey, we got the guy we wanted. He was going
00:51:28to be our pick no matter what. That wasn't the case here. The Patriots would have loved to have
00:51:31Keon Coleman or Xavier Leggett. It did not work that way. Elliott Wolfe did not panic there.
00:51:36Like the easy pick would have been saying, okay, who's the next receiver on our board,
00:51:40which was Jalen Polk for them. Let's just go ahead and take him and keep it moving. For them,
00:51:45they ended up trading back three picks, getting that upgrade to the fourth round pick. And they
00:51:49ended up using that to get Javon Baker. And so it ended up being a little bit of a double dip.
00:51:55And so, you know, there's a little bit more pick scenarios coming in it, but I think if you're a
00:51:59Patriots fan and you want to look at the positive, if you were Xavier Leggett fan like you, or if
00:52:03you're a Keon Coleman fan and you're like sad about that, or you're kind of lukewarm on Jalen
00:52:08Polk, look at it this way. They essentially double dipped getting Jalen Polk and Javon Baker for what
00:52:14it would have cost to get Xavier Leggett or a Keon Coleman. And so as you track this for the years to
00:52:22come, it's going to be Jalen Polk and Javon Baker versus one of those two receivers. Is the combined
00:52:28effort of those two Patriot players more valuable for that? Now, as you get into the middle rounds,
00:52:33as you mentioned, they definitely were prioritizing offense line. I think the fact that Baker was still
00:52:38available as a second receiver was like a pleasant surprise for them. I think they wanted, they would
00:52:43have liked to get a second receiver, but after they took Polk, the priority was offense line.
00:52:49And if you remember, I think the back end of the second round, there was a little bit of
00:52:52a run on tackles. I think the kid from BYU went, I think there was another kid that went at the
00:52:58bottom of that round, I think either to KC, I think KC got one. And then there was another
00:53:02team that got one and there was another team that got one in the top of the third round.
00:53:06I don't know which one, but I think at least one of those was going to be the target for the Patriots
00:53:11if he got there at 68. He didn't get there. They were talking about trading back because I think
00:53:16they understood the value for Caden Wallace may not have been an early third. I think they might
00:53:21have been like, hey, if we could have got him in the middle of the third or later in the third,
00:53:24the value quote unquote might've been better. But if you watch guys who you had a little bit
00:53:30lower grade on than they went, go at that stage at offense tackle. And you got to say, we got
00:53:36here at offense. We can play a game and say, hey, let's trade back 15 spots and maybe he'll still
00:53:43be there. But what if he's not? And then we got to go to our next. And so we're just downgrading
00:53:47talent. So I think for them that might've been one where, Hey, they might've quote unquote reached,
00:53:52you know, maybe a grade higher around or higher than maybe they would have normally picked him.
00:53:56But he was a guy that was rising a lot in the draft process. I think, I think early on,
00:54:02I thought a scout told me he was going to be more of a fifth, sixth round pick as he went
00:54:06through the draft process. I think most people thought he was going to be an early day three,
00:54:10or even sneaking into the back of, of day two and the third round pick.
00:54:14And so this wasn't like, this is a fifth or sixth round pick at that stage. They took him in a third
00:54:19round. He was probably going to be a late third round, early fourth round pick on most people's
00:54:24boards. And all you need is one team to say, Hey, I'm gonna take them early in third round
00:54:28for you not to get them. So I think that's the thing there. Same thing where Leighton Robinson,
00:54:32I think that's another player where he might've been able to get him a half around, maybe around
00:54:37later. But I think they just thought the value there for getting an offensive lineman was too
00:54:43good for them, or the fact they can get an offensive lineman they like was too good to
00:54:47kind of play that game and pass back. Like the, the theme of playing the game and trading back,
00:54:53I think was a common theme for the Patriots. I mentioned in an article, Dry Mail had even said
00:54:58it there when it came to Drake May, he was like, I don't want to play this game where we just trade
00:55:01back three picks just to get more picks, but we miss our player. Right. And so I think the,
00:55:07the big thought there was if we like a guy, although we want more picks and they did get
00:55:13more picks in the, in the one trade back, um, we gotta get core guys. We need talent.
00:55:20We need talent. Like, yes, we need bodies, but we also need talent. And if the difference is,
00:55:25Hey, two C players versus a B player, we're going to take the B player.
00:55:29Most times it didn't work for the, the first trade up into the first round,
00:55:34cause they were trying to do that and say, Hey, we're going to sacrifice a pick
00:55:37to get a guy. We think it's a better than, than what we see in poke, but they pivoted
00:55:42and did the two for one route there. The rest of the draft. I think we saw them say, Hey,
00:55:46if we like a guy, we're going to take them and maybe it's a reach, but I think we like the
00:55:51player. And so I think that's what happened with the two offensive linemen there. And I think the
00:55:55fact that you see a Caden Wallace, who they think can play left tackle. We're going to see,
00:56:00I think most people I talked to thought he was going to be more of a guard or a right tackle,
00:56:03but you know, you look at a team that's going to be playing a lot more outside zone.
00:56:08Um, you don't need your offensive lineman to be this big burly dude.
00:56:12You need them to be able to move and Caden Wallace can move.
00:56:16What you detailed is why it's so tough to really analyze and grade these drafts
00:56:22because you really don't know when it's reported, it adds context, but you don't know,
00:56:26like the Patriots got criticized. They weren't being aggressive enough. Well,
00:56:29they were being aggressive. They tried to get a guy, then it didn't work out.
00:56:32And then there's also the fact that sometimes you do have to play the game. And if you like a guy,
00:56:37you have to stay put and you can get the criticism from all us outsiders and say,
00:56:40Oh, you could have got them. You know, like you said, a half round later, well, he's not there.
00:56:44What if he's not right. Right. And you don't go to the press college and be like, well,
00:56:48I know we, why y'all keep trading back? Why did y'all kick? Well, we thought a guy was going to
00:56:52be there and he wasn't there. And then our next guy wasn't there. And all of a sudden you got
00:56:56all these fit for six round picks and a draft where honestly, it's not a great draft to have
00:57:01a bunch of six round picks. I talked to a lot of teams and I think it was reported a lot publicly,
00:57:05um, on the draft broadcast too, because 58 underclassmen, usually that number is closer to
00:57:11150. A lot of NIL guys came back to school and say, you're happy. You're losing a round or two
00:57:17of draft talent. And so a lot of the guys that won the sixth or seventh round were probably going
00:57:21to be UDF phase. It was a normal, um, normal, uh, draft class. And so I think somewhere around
00:57:28the end of the fourth round, early portions of fifth round, you saw a huge drop off and talent.
00:57:33And so I think really that's where you saw teams say, okay, it's not worth trading back at some
00:57:38point, or if we're going to trade back at this stage, we're just going to get next year's picks
00:57:43instead of just getting more picks in 20, 20, uh, four. And if you're a Patriots fan,
00:57:47I think you can probably sleep better at night knowing your team had conviction and took a guy
00:57:52they liked versus like you said, trading back, probably missing on a guy. And then it's like,
00:57:55Oh, look at all these picks with players that, you know, at this stage might be able to make
00:57:58our roster or give us the same level of talent. I'm going to close on a bit of a fun question.
00:58:03Yeah. Joe Milton said no shot that he's not playing. Bazooka Joe. Now I love the talent.
00:58:11He's an exciting player. And I think Alex Van Pelt with his creativity is going to maximize
00:58:14what he can do at the same time. I think we have to be honest based on what we saw. There are a lot
00:58:20of things missing from a real quarterback perspective. Now, again, he said he was going
00:58:24to play quarterback. Gerard Mayo said he was drafted as a quarterback, but did not close his
00:58:28door to a position change. So last thing, do you think that Joe Milton will be a quarterback for
00:58:34the foreseeable future? Or do you think at some point, maybe if there's not enough reps in camp,
00:58:38or he doesn't really show them what they want to see early on, that we could see him maybe try
00:58:42out in different positions, which I do want to underline is not easy. People train their entire
00:58:47lives to be tight ends and don't make it. It's like, I want that to be very clear. But at the
00:58:50same time, if you want to make it in the NFL, sometimes you do have to see if you have
00:58:54capabilities to other spots. Yeah. I think he's a quarterback and I think they're going to let
00:58:57him try to be a quarterback. I think that's until proven otherwise, I think that's what you'll see
00:59:03him be. Now I wouldn't surprise me at some point, and I'm not saying it in year one,
00:59:07I'm saying at some point, if he learns the offense, if you realize his skillset is just
00:59:13too good for him to sit on the bench, if he ends up getting a package of some sort,
00:59:19or he's playing a little bit more of a hybrid role, not that he changes positions, but for lack
00:59:25of a better phrase, because he's the most popular one, a Taysom Hill type phrase. It doesn't have
00:59:29to be the same, but another player who can add a dynamic and even more significantly for you,
00:59:35you got an athletic quarterback in Drake May, but he's not a type of guy you're probably going
00:59:39to want to be running a QB power on, on third and three on a regular basis. Maybe that's a
00:59:45situation where, hey, Joe's coming in and Joe's got a lot about, we always talk about his arm,
00:59:50but Joe's a really athletic runner as well. And so maybe that's something you utilize that for.
00:59:57I heard some people talk about Hail Marys. Drake May's got to be a pretty big arm too. I don't
01:00:00think he's going to want to come off the field on Hail Marys once he's on the field either.
01:00:04But obviously he's got that capability too. The reality is they got him as a six round pick. And
01:00:09again, I told you six and seventh round picks probably would have been undrafted in most drafts.
01:00:13Maybe somebody takes a shot on Joe because of the upside. But I think right now he's a very
01:00:18much a developmental prospect, a third quarterback, a guy where his goal right now should be focusing
01:00:24on making the team and learning rather than figuring out what his role is. And so I think
01:00:28year one, year two, as you see time go on, maybe he gets to a point where he can earn that backup
01:00:33job full right. And the other thing about that is he gives you a scout team look every week for a
01:00:40big arm athletic quarterback. And so certain things like this are valuable that I don't think a lot of
01:00:44people look at. I don't know if Joe's ever going to be a starting quarterback in this league. He's
01:00:49got some accuracy issues for sure. Sorry. Kind of a side story here. Random fact about me. I grew
01:00:59up a Tennessee Vols fan. Before I went to Houston Cougars, I went to University of Houston. And so
01:01:05I'm a big Coug. And so I root for my Cougs for sure. But every, I don't even honestly don't know
01:01:12how, but since seven years old, I've been a Vols fan. So I've watched, the reason why this
01:01:18significant, I've watched pretty much every game and throw that Joe Milton's ever thrown just as a
01:01:22fan. Like I watched Tennessee Vol. And so I know his game pretty well, what he can and can't do.
01:01:27There was a lot of hope for him coming after Henny Hooker this past year. He wasn't quite that,
01:01:32that accuracy passer. And I don't know if he ever is that player, but I think that you,
01:01:38you try to develop him, you utilize what he can do well. And I think the goal to me for him as a
01:01:44six round pick, if he can end up being a long-term backup for Drake May, then I think you've got a
01:01:49great value out of that pick. Okay. This has been a ton of fun, man. I do, I already got you for an
01:01:55hour. So I want to give you the rest of your night before I let you go, please just let the
01:01:58people know where they can find you and what great stuff you got coming down the pipeline that we
01:02:02should be looking out for. And of course, plug the piece you already had, which was fantastic.
01:02:06A great read. If you haven't checked it out yet. Yeah. Appreciate you Taylor. I told you when I saw
01:02:10you at Foxborough, man, I make time for you. You know, I'm sure all your fans know you're,
01:02:14you're great at what you do. I followed you on social for a while. I get a lot of insight about,
01:02:19you know, your breakdowns of where the paths are. And you know, I think that stuff has value for me,
01:02:24especially another young brother in here. I want to see you succeed. And so I will,
01:02:28I don't give an hour of my time post draft to a lot of people, but I will give it to you.
01:02:32And, and so, you know, definitely continue to support him and support his work. Good people
01:02:38doing good things. As far as me, you can follow me on social at Cameron wolf, put that E on the
01:02:42end of the wolf. That that's me on, on, on Twitter. And then Cameron D wolf on Instagram.
01:02:49That's how you'll find me there. And you'll see him on the NFL network. I'll actually be,
01:02:52I don't know when this is Aaron, but Thursday I'll be on TV talking a little bit more Patriots.
01:02:57And so you'll, you can catch me there on NFL network for path to the draft. We do one more
01:03:01week of past to the draft after the draft. So that'll come on Thursday night. And then yeah,
01:03:06you kind of check me out on these channels throughout. One other thing I like the pub
01:03:11I did a podcast with Steve Smith and James Palmer this what was that earlier this week
01:03:17talked a lot of wide receivers. So you know, for those people who want to hear more about
01:03:22Jalen Polk and Jayvon Baker and Steve Smith's view of those players, definitely tune in.
01:03:27We talked a lot of that. I gave my insight, but Steve is a breakdown of receivers. And so
01:03:32he gave a comparison of Jalen Polk to TJ Hoosman's out of that's his comp for him.
01:03:37And so you hear a lot about his perspectives of Polk and Baker on that chat as well.
01:03:43Hope you get some time to yourself as well, man. You are very, very,
01:03:46Oh, I will. I will. It's F1 weekend in Miami. So I'm going to be at the races this weekend.
01:03:51Oh, yeah. Enjoy for the both of us. All right. Thank you so much again for your time and for
01:03:54the kind words. It means a lot. And thank you all as always for watching. Now, take care of
01:03:58yourselves. Take care of each other. We'll see you next time. Peace.

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