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The Garden Report goes live following the Celtics game vs the Lakers. Catch the Celtics Postgame Show featuring Bobby Manning, Josue Pavon, and John Zannis as they offer insights and analysis from Boston's game vs LA.  This episode of the Garden Report is brought to you by:  FanDuel Sportsbook, New customers, join today and you’ll get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS if your first bet of FIVE DOLLARS or more wins. Just visit FanDuel.com/BOSTON to sign up. Make every moment more with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL.   Must be 21+ and present in select states. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino, LLC. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia and Vermont. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona, 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, 1-800-9-WITH-IT in Indiana, 1-800-522-4700 or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1-877-770-STOP in Louisiana, visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, visit 1800gambler.net in West Virginia, or call 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call (800) 327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York.  #Celtics #NBA #GardenReport #CLNS

Transcript

00:00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:03 Can you say hard hats, folks?

00:00:06 Hard hats, munch pails, steel-toed boots.

00:00:09 Anything short of a championship this year is a failure.

00:00:11 Look at this boomer right here.

00:00:13 You've just got so much talent here.

00:00:16 Somebody said we need to apologize for Jaylen.

00:00:17 Can I pull the John?

00:00:19 What are we apologizing for?

00:00:20 What did we say?

00:00:21 What did we do?

00:00:21 [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:29 All right, Josue, fine.

00:00:30 I'll apologize.

00:00:31 Ready?

00:00:32 No, this ain't real.

00:00:34 Yes.

00:00:35 I'll apologize for letting these guys off the hook

00:00:37 the last couple of games when they played like shit.

00:00:41 Because I'm being too shy.

00:00:44 That's more of a realistic apology.

00:00:45 I thought you were going to apologize

00:00:47 on behalf of the Celtics.

00:00:48 I don't like those apologies.

00:00:49 No, I won't.

00:00:50 Listen, it could be a factor of things.

00:00:55 It's possible.

00:00:56 Look, I'm trying to stay even keeled on it.

00:00:59 I think raging back and forth and back and forth,

00:01:02 do I think this game matters?

00:01:05 Like, hugely matters?

00:01:07 And Josue, I'm told your mic is loud.

00:01:09 I don't know if you can turn down the game there a little

00:01:11 bit.

00:01:11 Is it loud?

00:01:13 I-- look, does it matter matter?

00:01:19 No.

00:01:20 Meaning, I don't think because of this game,

00:01:22 this is indicative of why they won't win everything.

00:01:25 Every champion who's ever played basketball probably

00:01:27 has games like this and games like other bad games

00:01:30 they've had this year.

00:01:31 They still have the best record in basketball.

00:01:33 Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:01:35 The Lakers hit a lot of threes.

00:01:36 We didn't hit threes.

00:01:37 All the excuses.

00:01:38 Fine.

00:01:39 If you want to go down that road, it's fine.

00:01:41 It's just what ends up happening is games like this, to me,

00:01:44 Josue, are a reminder of what worries me about Tatum

00:01:49 and Brown and has always worried me about Tatum and Brown.

00:01:52 But when we overreact to it, people lose their minds.

00:01:55 And so I temper it a tad because I

00:01:58 do think it's a little much every single time there's

00:02:00 a bad game, you freak out every time there's a good game.

00:02:03 But you see snapshots of things that still bother you.

00:02:07 And I do believe, among everything else,

00:02:09 that top-down energy and leadership--

00:02:13 someone posted recently their record

00:02:16 since the energy tweet from Jalen.

00:02:19 That's all fine and good.

00:02:20 But if your guys--

00:02:22 if your top guys come out and don't give a shit,

00:02:27 it trickles down.

00:02:28 I'm going to leave Tatum out of this one.

00:02:30 I don't think he had a great game.

00:02:32 But I saw him hit the floor a few times.

00:02:34 And he seemed to be trying.

00:02:35 It was a disjointed effort.

00:02:37 It was the only time the fans got on their feet, by the way.

00:02:39 Yeah.

00:02:40 Jalen Brown was walking around.

00:02:42 And there were multiple opportunities here

00:02:46 to right the ship.

00:02:48 We'll get into some of it as we go on.

00:02:50 Maybe I'm just pissed off because I

00:02:52 live in Newton and the teachers have

00:02:53 been on strike for two weeks.

00:02:54 And I'm at my wits' end right now.

00:02:56 That's just crazy.

00:02:56 We can get into that at the end of the show.

00:02:58 I'm fried.

00:02:58 I'm a little angry about--

00:03:01 so--

00:03:02 Well, hold on.

00:03:03 So I'm going to pause.

00:03:04 And I'm going to let you tell me--

00:03:05 Well, I got to--

00:03:06 --does this matter, OK?

00:03:07 I just want to follow up.

00:03:08 I want to pinpoint exactly what frustrates you

00:03:10 most about Tatum and Brown.

00:03:11 Is it the overall vibe when they know guys like LeBron

00:03:16 and Anthony Davis are going to be playing?

00:03:17 Or is it the lack of--

00:03:19 I don't know-- sense of urgency when you're down 16?

00:03:21 I don't know.

00:03:22 --against a shorthanded Lakers team?

00:03:24 I don't get--

00:03:24 It could be either one.

00:03:26 Yeah, to me, the first quarter of not giving a shit

00:03:30 and being sloppy and lazy with the ball, I find so annoying.

00:03:33 But you've got so many-- what bothered me the most

00:03:36 about tonight, Josue, is you had the right--

00:03:39 you had-- you had the opportunity to right the ship

00:03:43 so many times.

00:03:45 And you didn't.

00:03:45 And that's what gets me-- that's what galls me

00:03:47 about tonight's game, OK?

00:03:49 So these guys suck.

00:03:50 They're whipping it all over the court.

00:03:53 The bench comes in and saves their freaking asses

00:03:56 into the first quarter and makes it a close game.

00:03:58 And what do they do?

00:03:59 They piss it away again in the second.

00:04:02 So what happens?

00:04:03 They come out with their starters in the third quarter.

00:04:08 And they freaking just are allowing dunks and layups

00:04:11 and whatever.

00:04:12 And Joe did the right thing in benching--

00:04:14 Joe benches them.

00:04:15 --Brown and Porzingis.

00:04:17 Brown, Porzingis, and Holiday, which--

00:04:19 Oh, and Holiday, too.

00:04:20 But Holiday came back in in that third quarter.

00:04:22 Brown and Porzingis did not.

00:04:24 No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:25 They sat nine minutes.

00:04:26 Then they both come out in the fourth quarter.

00:04:28 And Brown's still walking around.

00:04:30 So you had the first quarter, the first half,

00:04:33 and then getting benched in the third quarter

00:04:35 as a potential wake-up call.

00:04:37 And you never took it.

00:04:39 And that's what bugs me the most is your coach is basically

00:04:42 begging you and telling you, like, dude, get serious here.

00:04:47 And they didn't do it.

00:04:48 That's crazy to me.

00:04:50 Yeah, that bothers me, too, John.

00:04:51 It feels like if you're beating this team for 3 and 1/2

00:04:54 quarters, there's a good chance that they'll--

00:04:56 I don't want to say check out, but they're not

00:04:58 going to put forth the effort of sense of urgency.

00:05:01 And that is-- that should worry you, John.

00:05:03 And there's a few other things that worry me as well,

00:05:05 especially with Porzingis.

00:05:07 How many times did Chris Dobbs have a mismatch in the paint?

00:05:10 And he took advantage of it a couple of times here and there.

00:05:12 But in that fourth quarter, I just

00:05:14 don't understand the game plan of not

00:05:15 trying to get back to that, trying

00:05:17 to get guys to the free throw line.

00:05:18 I know Tatum did his best.

00:05:20 He was attacking when he could.

00:05:21 And he got to the free throw line finally with, what,

00:05:23 three minutes left in the fourth quarter?

00:05:24 That was his first trip to the free throw line.

00:05:26 But it's inexcusable.

00:05:27 I think the Celtics have to find a way

00:05:29 to just make plays and execute down the stretch.

00:05:33 You don't have Anthony Davis--

00:05:34 for the Lakers, right?

00:05:35 They don't have Anthony Davis.

00:05:36 They don't have LeBron James.

00:05:38 But then you have guys that just show up and set the table.

00:05:42 D'Angelo Russell's one of those guys, man,

00:05:44 especially when he's hitting three-point shots,

00:05:46 assists, getting guys going.

00:05:48 And of course, Austin Reeves--

00:05:51 this happens from time to time, OK?

00:05:53 So Austin Reeves, I mean, you should be

00:05:54 ready for something like this.

00:05:56 And if you ask me, he's the player of the game, obviously.

00:05:59 Just from what he did, just carrying it out

00:06:00 all four quarters.

00:06:02 But I also think the Celtics just never even

00:06:05 made any type of adjustments in that fourth quarter.

00:06:08 It's just, one, stop the bleeding, and two,

00:06:09 just get better looks.

00:06:11 Get looks for your guys, for your--

00:06:14 who should have been in an All-Star,

00:06:15 was probably going to go for Julius Randle anyways.

00:06:18 That part is what drove me nuts.

00:06:19 Because look, Jackson Hayes, he played his ass off,

00:06:22 especially in that third quarter.

00:06:23 The way he started the second half, he set the tone.

00:06:26 But Chris Dasperdingus, he should

00:06:27 be able to counter that attack, whether it was on the mismatch,

00:06:30 whether it was on the block.

00:06:31 I just wanted to see him try it.

00:06:33 And I know Hayes had a heck of a play against him,

00:06:35 but I just don't understand the sense of not

00:06:37 trying to attack the mismatch.

00:06:40 And take advantage of someone that you didn't have a year ago,

00:06:43 a guy who makes a tremendous difference.

00:06:45 If you ask me, is a complete--

00:06:48 makes himself a completely different team

00:06:50 when he's out there.

00:06:51 But I didn't see it tonight.

00:06:52 I didn't feel it tonight at all.

00:06:54 He wasn't engaged.

00:06:56 Brown was never engaged.

00:06:57 And again, I'm not--

00:06:58 Brown was never engaged.

00:06:59 I'll give Tatum half a pass tonight, but not generally

00:07:02 speaking, because there's been many games where it's Tatum

00:07:05 who's the guy who came out sleepwalking and jacking threes

00:07:08 and just going through the motions here.

00:07:10 And you know, it wasn't a great game by him either.

00:07:12 It just wasn't as bad as the others.

00:07:14 But he's been guilty of this from time to time.

00:07:17 And I do think, again, that's when we've talked about it,

00:07:19 you know, that the leader's there.

00:07:25 And somebody put up a comment in there about Barkley.

00:07:30 And I know Joe Swayze at the game.

00:07:31 So I don't know if you caught it.

00:07:35 Oh.

00:07:36 What did he say at halftime?

00:07:37 Barkley.

00:07:39 Or was it postgame?

00:07:41 It was at halftime.

00:07:42 I didn't get to watch the postgame

00:07:43 because I was waiting to start this postgame.

00:07:45 Our postgame.

00:07:46 Yeah, those guys are--

00:07:47 yeah, that was a bad question.

00:07:48 Charles Barkley suggesting Tatum and Brown--

00:07:49 Those guys usually go off at halftime,

00:07:51 so that makes sense.

00:07:52 Yeah, they go to the next game quick.

00:07:54 Barkley suggesting Tatum and Brown not

00:07:56 tough enough to win a title.

00:07:57 He said that they went on--

00:07:59 the Celtics are a team, the exact quote,

00:08:02 winning on talent, not on hustle.

00:08:04 And I think he told an anecdote from a coach or blah, blah,

00:08:09 blah, and this and that.

00:08:10 But basically, that's what he said.

00:08:12 He's like, they're nice guys.

00:08:14 I don't see that they're tough enough.

00:08:16 They're not those guys that are just

00:08:17 going to friggin' gnash their teeth and get after it.

00:08:20 They have their moments, but they don't do it enough.

00:08:24 And I know part of that is just their demeanor is passive.

00:08:27 They are generally not thump your chest sort of guys.

00:08:32 They're a little bit lower energy, sleepier,

00:08:35 not as demonstrative.

00:08:36 So some of that is superficial and maybe not necessarily

00:08:40 accurate and maybe doesn't reflect how intense they

00:08:43 are in games.

00:08:44 But that's not--

00:08:45 Well, he did the moment intense.

00:08:46 It's a little different.

00:08:47 Yeah.

00:08:48 So again, so when everyone talks about this,

00:08:52 Jimmy put this well in a text.

00:08:53 We've given the Celtics a lot of credit for winning games

00:08:57 they would have lost last year.

00:08:58 This is losing a game that they would have lost last year

00:09:00 or the year before.

00:09:01 They just never got it in gear.

00:09:04 And they had so many opportunities

00:09:05 playing a team that had nothing on the other side.

00:09:08 Right.

00:09:09 Yeah.

00:09:10 Look, it's just one of those games where I feel like,

00:09:13 again, if you put forth the right effort for three

00:09:16 and a half quarters, you're going

00:09:17 to get them to break down.

00:09:19 And I feel like at that two minute mark,

00:09:20 even with somewhat of a run away from at least making

00:09:24 it a one possession game, Joe Banzula benched them.

00:09:27 And I hate to say it, but it was probably the right thing

00:09:29 to do just to send a message because this one is ugly, man.

00:09:32 It's one of those games where you're like,

00:09:34 do you guys even deserve to try to make a comeback here?

00:09:37 You've had a lot of chances here.

00:09:38 You're still not playing the right way.

00:09:40 But John, I can't help but wonder how well they're

00:09:45 being set up out there, man.

00:09:47 I just don't understand the way they're

00:09:48 executing offensively, especially coming out

00:09:51 of timeouts.

00:09:52 There were a couple of great plays,

00:09:55 a couple of plays out of a timeout

00:09:57 that happened in the first half.

00:09:58 But after halftime, I just didn't see it.

00:10:01 And the effort thing is worrisome,

00:10:04 especially when you come out of halftime.

00:10:06 But to start the fourth quarter after what,

00:10:08 a couple of quick plays from White and Ziggins,

00:10:11 the guys who were out, it was right back to what we saw.

00:10:14 And all of a sudden, the Celtics were down by double digits

00:10:16 again.

00:10:17 I mean, this is the type of stuff

00:10:18 that makes you wonder in the course of a seven game series,

00:10:22 will this team show up again, this version of the Celtics?

00:10:25 And if it does, man, that could really cost you a series.

00:10:27 I just do think the margin of error

00:10:29 is that thin in the playoffs, and especially

00:10:31 when the Celtics team is lax.

00:10:33 And when are they most lax, John?

00:10:34 When things are going well, when they got to--

00:10:38 whether it's winning a handful of games,

00:10:40 heading into this one, or just finding out

00:10:43 that LeBron and Anthony Davis weren't going to play.

00:10:46 Is that a mental thing, John?

00:10:47 Because I can't help but think it must be.

00:10:50 Like, oh, these guys can't shoot like this all night.

00:10:52 Sure, the Lakers averaged 11.5 free points a night

00:10:56 this season.

00:10:57 And they passed that by halftime.

00:10:59 I don't want to chalk that up as like, oh, the Lakers just

00:11:04 got threes.

00:11:04 But it obviously put them in a great position.

00:11:07 But the Celtics still were one run away, it felt like.

00:11:09 Lakers shooting, what, 19 for 36 from deep.

00:11:13 Guys pick and plays like Russell,

00:11:15 and Hakeem Murrah finally found his offense

00:11:17 in that second half.

00:11:18 And look, the athleticism and the way

00:11:20 they were cutting off the paint, you

00:11:21 credit the Lakers for the defense for sure.

00:11:23 But again, if you pinpoint just the way

00:11:27 the Celtics executed in that fourth quarter, play by play,

00:11:30 there's a lot of questions as to why

00:11:33 they didn't try to utilize someone like Porzingis, man.

00:11:36 I just feel like this was that game where,

00:11:37 especially in that fourth quarter, where it's like,

00:11:39 man, just give him the rock down low.

00:11:41 And just see what that gets you.

00:11:44 Just two or three times in a row, just see what happens.

00:11:47 I'm sitting there thinking Brazil's going to do that,

00:11:49 but he never did.

00:11:50 He never did in that fourth quarter.

00:11:52 Yeah, never did.

00:11:54 I don't know.

00:11:55 I'm not putting anything on Joe, though.

00:11:58 Nothing on him?

00:11:59 No.

00:12:01 No, not tonight.

00:12:02 It's the dude--

00:12:04 So you're OK with that fourth quarter from the Celtics, though?

00:12:06 Just the way they played?

00:12:08 Yeah, it's on them, man.

00:12:10 I'm not doing the Joe.

00:12:11 Sometimes I'm tired of this all like, oh, let's just

00:12:13 try to get the best look.

00:12:15 And no, sometimes you have to get the guy--

00:12:17 you have to set up the guy sometimes in the NBA,

00:12:19 especially in the fourth quarter when you're down.

00:12:21 And if it's Tatum, OK, if it's Porzingis in that fourth quarter,

00:12:24 sure, but I just didn't see enough of it.

00:12:27 I saw more chucking.

00:12:29 I didn't see-- I saw less ball movement.

00:12:32 Yeah.

00:12:33 I mean, look, I always get annoyed there when they get

00:12:36 too happy with one thing.

00:12:39 But I think they lost this in a lot of different ways.

00:12:41 I think the turnovers--

00:12:42 Oh, yeah.

00:12:43 --that's not Joe.

00:12:43 It's a lot of different ways to--

00:12:44 The threes, not-- it was--

00:12:46 look, it wasn't-- it's not the worst shooting

00:12:50 night they've ever had.

00:12:52 It wasn't horrible.

00:12:53 They just-- and again, you can put a ton of things

00:12:57 into the Lakers hitting the average 11 threes a night,

00:13:01 and they hit 19 tonight.

00:13:02 That's not going to happen.

00:13:03 So is this-- are they--

00:13:05 this could-- if the Lakers aren't hot,

00:13:08 it's an ugly win, right?

00:13:10 Probably.

00:13:11 It's an ugly win.

00:13:13 Yeah, that's true.

00:13:13 Where you're like, god, they played like ass,

00:13:16 but they snuck it out.

00:13:17 Thank god it's the Lakers, and they couldn't hit--

00:13:19 they couldn't hit shit.

00:13:20 But it's a loss.

00:13:21 You ran into a hot shooting team, and you played like ass,

00:13:24 offensively, all night long.

00:13:25 And you didn't care, and you didn't respect the basketball,

00:13:27 and you didn't respect your teammates.

00:13:29 And that's what you get.

00:13:31 And so Joe likes to say, oh, I like the adversity.

00:13:34 I like when we don't play well and see how we come back.

00:13:36 That's great.

00:13:37 I don't know what he liked tonight.

00:13:39 And I really want to know--

00:13:42 Jalen's talking now.

00:13:43 I really want to know, are they acknowledging

00:13:46 this was a benching?

00:13:48 Did he actually bench them?

00:13:50 There's no way-- of course he did,

00:13:52 but he's not going to say it, right?

00:13:55 No.

00:13:55 Let me see.

00:13:56 No, he's not going to say it.

00:13:57 He kind of did.

00:13:57 Oh, Ahmed's going to put it in there.

00:13:59 He kind of did say it.

00:14:00 OK, that is good.

00:14:01 Yeah, I was going to say, Ahmed has something,

00:14:02 but I don't know exactly the specifics.

00:14:04 All right, Joe-- oh, God.

00:14:06 This is a Bible.

00:14:07 Is this worth it?

00:14:08 It's $1.40.

00:14:10 That's a Bible?

00:14:12 This is a lengthy soundbite.

00:14:14 Are we doing this?

00:14:16 Actually, it kind of reminds me of radio.

00:14:17 Yeah, that's a little long.

00:14:19 That's chunky.

00:14:20 Is it good?

00:14:21 It's insane.

00:14:22 Oh, he says it's insane.

00:14:23 Oh, God.

00:14:24 Oh, if Ahmed says insane, that means--

00:14:26 Shit, I don't know if I'm ready for weird Joe, but here we go.

00:14:29 Joe and Gary, the Joe and Gary show.

00:14:32 Hit it.

00:14:32 It's one thing to miss shots and not execute.

00:14:34 It's another thing not to play hard and to get booed.

00:14:38 And guys not get back--

00:14:39 I don't mind getting booed.

00:14:41 It's good for you.

00:14:41 Guys not get back on defense, transition baskets

00:14:45 after you guys make a basket.

00:14:47 That has to be a concern, the lack of effort,

00:14:50 as opposed to missing shots or just not executing.

00:14:53 I'm not concerned by it.

00:14:54 I'm not happy about it, but I'm not concerned by it.

00:14:56 I think it's unacceptable.

00:14:58 It doesn't mean that I'm concerned.

00:15:00 We'll work through it.

00:15:01 I think part of bad stretch of basketball

00:15:03 is physical just as much as mental.

00:15:05 And I think those two things go hand in hand.

00:15:07 So I think it's unacceptable for those things to happen.

00:15:10 But if you take a look at the whole scope of our season,

00:15:12 they happen very little.

00:15:13 And so to look at everything with just this lens of two

00:15:17 games or a stretch or a week or whatever the case may be

00:15:20 doesn't do the justice of the process of what we

00:15:23 do over a long period of time.

00:15:24 So it's unacceptable.

00:15:25 Make sure you know that.

00:15:26 But at the same time, it's going to happen.

00:15:29 And it's a matter of holding guys accountable

00:15:31 and working through it.

00:15:32 But it's something you probably--

00:15:34 I mean, you had a meeting with them before the game.

00:15:36 You probably told them, hey, guys, let's not let down

00:15:39 since they're missing LeBron and AD, and it still happened.

00:15:43 How frustrating is that?

00:15:44 You know how many things I tell them that still happen?

00:15:46 That's like coaching all the time.

00:15:50 So the goal is--

00:15:51 You have kids?

00:15:52 No kids.

00:15:53 Oh, man.

00:15:53 That's why you're asking that question.

00:15:56 If you had kids, you wouldn't even ask that question.

00:15:58 Yeah, but these are grown men.

00:16:00 Yeah, but you're adult.

00:16:02 I mean, you married?

00:16:03 Yes.

00:16:03 Oh, come on.

00:16:04 You listen to everything your wife tells you?

00:16:06 I try to, and I get told when I don't.

00:16:09 I get told when I don't.

00:16:10 I don't.

00:16:10 The uncomfortable laugh, that's a first.

00:16:19 That's an uncomfortable laugh, Joan.

00:16:22 How are you digesting this?

00:16:24 Because you have both, John.

00:16:25 So how do you feel about this?

00:16:26 It makes me--

00:16:27 I have neither.

00:16:28 You have a wife and children.

00:16:31 John, what does this have to do with basketball?

00:16:34 I'm sorry, but come on, man.

00:16:39 Like, not to get serious, but if I'm Gary, I'm like,

00:16:43 can we talk about basketball, Joe?

00:16:44 But if he says that, then Gary's the asshole, right?

00:16:47 Right?

00:16:48 Oh, all right, how about this?

00:16:50 How about this, Sotheby's fans?

00:16:50 If Gary asked that question to Joe, would you guys be like,

00:16:53 oh, that's funny?

00:16:54 You wouldn't, right?

00:16:55 You would be like, why is this reporter asking

00:16:56 about his personal life, right?

00:16:58 Come on, man.

00:17:00 Where's the line?

00:17:01 Like, where's the line with this?

00:17:02 I've said, Josue, I've done this job my whole life.

00:17:05 Oh, Toscano's in here.

00:17:07 There he is.

00:17:08 I agree, Jimmy.

00:17:09 No, Jimmy's not going to sleep tonight.

00:17:11 Hop on, man.

00:17:11 Hop on if you want to at the end of this.

00:17:13 I've done something like this my whole life, right?

00:17:16 Yeah, this is a great perspective for you, man.

00:17:18 I want to hear what you think about it.

00:17:19 This content in X, Y, and Z, you know--

00:17:22 Well, yeah, like seeing a coach up there, right,

00:17:24 the back and forth.

00:17:25 No, but I mean, in this world, I've lived in this universe.

00:17:27 If I had one job I could do better

00:17:30 than what I've done my whole life by far,

00:17:32 it would be hired to stop professional teams, athletes,

00:17:38 coaches, general managers from doing stuff like this.

00:17:41 I can tell you what it's going to play like,

00:17:44 what it's going to sound like, how it's going to be covered,

00:17:47 what everyone's going to say about it.

00:17:50 These teams need me to stop Joe from having

00:17:54 press conferences like this, OK?

00:17:56 It is just-- anyway, it has nothing to do with basketball.

00:18:00 Do you get a talking--

00:18:01 It doesn't matter at all.

00:18:02 It is just--

00:18:03 If you had to guess, though, if you're Joe Mazzullo,

00:18:05 do you get a talking to?

00:18:06 Yes, Ben.

00:18:07 We know it's not a big deal, unless they

00:18:10 think he's a weirdo.

00:18:11 And then it's a big--

00:18:13 It's weird.

00:18:14 Yes.

00:18:15 Can we agree it's weird?

00:18:17 It's just weird.

00:18:19 Just--

00:18:19 Yes, that part.

00:18:20 That part.

00:18:21 He is insecure, man.

00:18:22 Just stop it.

00:18:23 Sensitive, insecure.

00:18:24 And also, it's deflecting, and it's no account of--

00:18:27 but just, just please.

00:18:29 Joe, we ask the questions, all right?

00:18:31 It's so weird.

00:18:32 Especially basketball-related questions.

00:18:35 I'm never going to ask you about your wife.

00:18:37 I'm not going to ask you about your kids.

00:18:39 Stop deflecting, man.

00:18:41 Oh, man.

00:18:42 If I'm Gary, I would have been like, why are you asking me

00:18:44 that?

00:18:45 Why are you deflecting?

00:18:47 Stop making this about me.

00:18:49 We're talking about you and your team.

00:18:51 I think this is too far.

00:18:52 I don't think it's too far.

00:18:53 I just think someone's got to tap him on the shoulder

00:18:55 and be like, Joe, just do the basketball.

00:18:56 What was that?

00:18:57 Yeah, what was that?

00:18:59 Oh, you're so good.

00:19:00 You're such a smart--

00:19:01 you can talk basketball all day.

00:19:03 You're like-- your whole life is dedicated to it.

00:19:06 Just do the basketball stuff.

00:19:07 Just leave it.

00:19:09 He would never admit it, but if I'm also Gary, I'm like,

00:19:11 are you uncomfortable?

00:19:12 Oh, no, you're not?

00:19:13 Then why would you ever ask me a question like that?

00:19:15 But again, if Gary says that at all, he's in his feelings.

00:19:18 Oh, he's triggered.

00:19:20 What if Washburn was widowed or a child?

00:19:23 What if something bad happened?

00:19:24 Yeah, right.

00:19:26 Yeah.

00:19:27 I just said bye to her last week.

00:19:29 You have no idea what this guy's going through.

00:19:32 What if he lost a child or a spouse?

00:19:34 This whole thing is just weird.

00:19:35 And he said, the players don't listen to me.

00:19:39 And then he changed the subject.

00:19:40 You're deflecting.

00:19:41 [LAUGHTER]

00:19:43 And the way he dismissed it, too, John.

00:19:45 Like, oh, you think these guys listen to me?

00:19:48 It was almost as if he's batting 300 with these guys.

00:19:52 It's like, wait, what?

00:19:54 You mean so the majority of the time, they don't listen to you?

00:19:57 I'll ask the questions, Washburn.

00:19:58 Great, great, great retort by Gary, though.

00:20:04 But these are grown men.

00:20:06 Why are you bringing up children?

00:20:08 Oh, so-- oh, man.

00:20:10 I can't wait to read Gary's call.

00:20:11 Listen, it's like he just said so much

00:20:16 in that little back and forth.

00:20:17 I don't even think he realizes, like, in terms of getting

00:20:21 this team to do what he wants.

00:20:22 Like, this is the way I'm dissecting what I just saw.

00:20:27 This is the most boring commenter we have.

00:20:30 But yeah, OK.

00:20:33 OK, man.

00:20:34 OK, Ben, cool.

00:20:35 I don't like it.

00:20:36 Media's the bad guy.

00:20:38 OK.

00:20:38 We're the bad ones.

00:20:40 Anyway, it's weird.

00:20:42 It's stupid.

00:20:43 It's stupid.

00:20:44 But I'm still not blaming Joe for them playing this way.

00:20:47 I just think that's weird.

00:20:48 I'm still putting it on the players.

00:20:50 I always wait for the first weird Joe,

00:20:53 because it just gives me fuel to continue on

00:20:55 with the rest of the show.

00:20:57 So we're not spinning our wheels saying the same shit.

00:20:59 They came out.

00:21:00 They played like ass.

00:21:01 And that's it.

00:21:04 I lost you for a second.

00:21:05 You still there?

00:21:06 Yeah, I'm still here.

00:21:06 Sorry, man.

00:21:07 People come in here and give me that look.

00:21:09 I'm like, yeah, I don't know, man.

00:21:11 It's just one of those things where I just

00:21:13 feel like he's showing more and more how uncomfortable he

00:21:16 is with this right now.

00:21:17 And I'm not saying that this makes Joe Mizzou a bad coach,

00:21:19 or he's not the man for the job.

00:21:21 But he's going through some stuff right now,

00:21:24 I feel like, in terms of not knowing

00:21:27 how to answer these tough questions

00:21:28 or how to explain what happened tonight.

00:21:31 I thought he got better.

00:21:32 And again, it's a minor thing.

00:21:33 But I thought he got better.

00:21:34 In the preseason, he seemed a little better.

00:21:37 I know he talked to the guys at different points of time

00:21:40 during the year.

00:21:40 And he definitely came off this a tad.

00:21:44 It's so weird to be this way when the team is

00:21:46 so successful right now.

00:21:47 There's not that much to complain about, right?

00:21:50 Josue, are you talking to other people?

00:21:52 Yeah, no, I mean, I was.

00:21:53 But no, I mean, it just shows that it's hard for him

00:21:57 to get them to do, I guess, nowhere

00:21:59 near everything he wants done.

00:22:01 Because he just compared it to your children not listening

00:22:05 to you for some reason.

00:22:06 And I don't think that's a great comparison when you're talking

00:22:08 about, as Gary put it, grown men who are only grown men.

00:22:14 But they've been in this league for a handful of years.

00:22:16 And I don't know, man.

00:22:18 I just think the whole back and forth is different.

00:22:22 And then he switches to, oh, are you married?

00:22:25 Oh, do you have kids?

00:22:26 It's weird.

00:22:26 I just don't have to deal with anything.

00:22:28 I think Joe just needs a press conference film session.

00:22:32 I think Joe needs a hug and a talk with somebody.

00:22:35 He may need a therapist, man.

00:22:36 What were you trying to do there?

00:22:38 What were you trying to do there?

00:22:39 Seriously.

00:22:40 I think the guy needs a therapist, man.

00:22:42 I'm not even kidding.

00:22:43 I'm not even trying to accomplish.

00:22:44 Anyway, back to the game itself.

00:22:45 And again, on the panic meter thing, where are you?

00:22:51 After this?

00:22:52 Yeah, after this game.

00:22:53 How much does it bother you?

00:22:54 Because Jimmy gave me shit, and rightfully so.

00:22:57 Because I wasn't as bothered.

00:22:59 Because I am-- I understand the swings.

00:23:02 And I do understand that this happens

00:23:04 to good teams all the time.

00:23:06 I think the problem with this team

00:23:08 is it's these things that have doomed them before,

00:23:12 showing up when it matters, not showing up when it matters,

00:23:16 and not rising to the occasion in extremely big moments

00:23:20 in an inexplicable way.

00:23:22 And you don't understand it.

00:23:23 So when you see it, like I said, it's

00:23:25 just a weird PTSD of watching these guys and being like,

00:23:28 what are you doing?

00:23:29 What are you doing?

00:23:31 And that's what triggers me.

00:23:33 And that's why I got a little triggered by this one.

00:23:35 Because the effort-- it was the effort-- was so bad.

00:23:40 I mean, probably at like a 5 or 6.

00:23:44 And I know it's not really high, because to Joe's point,

00:23:48 you can't put the entire season on what we saw tonight

00:23:51 and what we've seen before, where the guys just

00:23:53 don't show up in the second half.

00:23:54 And the team takes advantage, even if they're shorthanded.

00:23:56 But it worries me in the sense of what

00:23:59 it's going to look like in the postseason,

00:24:01 or what it's going to look like even before the postseason.

00:24:03 That important three-week stretch,

00:24:05 where a lot of teams, let's face it,

00:24:07 pick up their stride and carry the momentum through.

00:24:10 Look what happened with the Miami Heat last year.

00:24:12 I mean, shit, people weren't even

00:24:13 talking about the Heat getting anywhere near the finals.

00:24:15 They got in as a play-in.

00:24:17 They locked in the playoff spot and rode the momentum all the

00:24:21 way to the NBA finals.

00:24:22 And you could say similar to what

00:24:24 happened even before that with the Golden State Warriors.

00:24:26 I just think all that stuff is super important.

00:24:28 I mean, not to say what Bobby and I talked

00:24:32 about the other night, where he asked me if these guys are

00:24:34 bored.

00:24:34 I don't think this is boredom, though.

00:24:36 I really don't.

00:24:37 I mean, it's a lack of, I don't know, like, oh, man,

00:24:41 no Davis, no LeBron.

00:24:43 Maybe a little bit of that.

00:24:44 You kind of let your hair down a little bit.

00:24:46 But the way these guys execute in the second half,

00:24:50 and especially when you look at the way

00:24:52 Joe Mazzullo has talked about finishing quarters strong

00:24:54 and all that, you're not seeing that right now.

00:24:57 And you wonder how much of that disconnect

00:24:58 is between the coach and his players.

00:25:00 I mean, he just compared them to kids.

00:25:02 But I don't know.

00:25:03 We have to see how they bounce back.

00:25:04 Again, it's a small sample size.

00:25:06 But it's worth talking about, obviously.

00:25:08 And it's worth-- it's enough for me to put my meter at a 5.5,

00:25:12 I'd say.

00:25:13 Anywhere between a 5 or 6.

00:25:15 5.5.

00:25:17 OK.

00:25:18 We'll see about that.

00:25:20 We are going to get another Joe soundbite.

00:25:24 Whether or not you can read into this, whether or not

00:25:26 the Jalen thing was a benching.

00:25:29 Joe Swayze again.

00:25:30 What's up, people?

00:25:31 Hey, what's up, guys?

00:25:32 What's up, Doug?

00:25:33 I got you, man.

00:25:34 Listen.

00:25:35 Play the clip.

00:25:37 You go to play the clip.

00:25:38 Who, me?

00:25:39 I thought you were going to.

00:25:41 I don't have it yet.

00:25:42 Oh.

00:25:44 I thought you were queuing it up.

00:25:45 It's exporting.

00:25:46 I don't queue.

00:25:47 This isn't like--

00:25:47 I don't have a tape machine back here.

00:25:49 I don't queue things up.

00:25:51 I'm thinking in radio terms, I guess.

00:25:54 Just press it.

00:25:55 No.

00:25:56 It's exporting.

00:25:58 That's the term we're using here.

00:26:00 I don't think-- I disagree with this.

00:26:03 I think Celtics are going to still be the one seed.

00:26:05 I guess when we talk about--

00:26:07 They built this lead, which I think is significant, too.

00:26:10 They haven't been this high in first place since 2008.

00:26:14 So you take that for what it's worth.

00:26:15 Also worth mentioning, the toughest stretch of the season,

00:26:18 it's in the rear view right now.

00:26:20 If you look ahead here, a lot of home games, too, as well.

00:26:22 It's easier.

00:26:24 So that helps.

00:26:27 Because they didn't drive the basketball, guys.

00:26:29 That's why.

00:26:30 I brought that up in the beginning, man.

00:26:31 They barely got to the free throw line.

00:26:32 They didn't get there for the first time

00:26:34 with three minutes left in the fourth.

00:26:35 They went, what, seven times?

00:26:36 Seven for seven?

00:26:37 They shot like 53s.

00:26:38 I mean--

00:26:41 Lakers took 26 free throws, Joe.

00:26:45 Yeah, but--

00:26:46 They made 19.

00:26:47 They just went to 48 threes.

00:26:49 OK, so there you go.

00:26:51 There you go.

00:26:52 It's not like they're getting hammered.

00:26:53 It's just like--

00:26:55 Yeah, but anywhere near 50 attempts, three-point attempts,

00:26:58 used to surprise you.

00:26:59 But now--

00:27:00 I mean, do we really think the refs were favoring the LeBron

00:27:03 Les Lakers at the Garden?

00:27:05 Like, what's the rationale behind that?

00:27:07 I'll bring in Bobby.

00:27:08 No, Lakers are playing good defense, man.

00:27:09 They're playing strong.

00:27:10 No, they played well.

00:27:11 Friggin' Vanderbilt.

00:27:13 Yeah, he's had a tone early.

00:27:16 He was feisty.

00:27:18 Bringing in Bobby Manning.

00:27:19 Bobby, tell us things.

00:27:21 Oh, wait.

00:27:21 First, I'm going to talk about--

00:27:23 Jalen Brown-- we do want to talk about this briefly.

00:27:27 Brown was benched, essentially.

00:27:31 Jose, we still see your lips moving.

00:27:33 We still see them.

00:27:34 Yeah.

00:27:36 Just because you're muted, it's clear

00:27:37 that you're talking to someone else.

00:27:39 Anyway, this is Jalen Brown on whether or not--

00:27:43 kind of what happened.

00:27:44 He got benched.

00:27:45 He got benched three minutes into the third

00:27:46 when they were playing like ass.

00:27:48 Joe pulled you and a couple of other guys,

00:27:50 and you sat for the rest of the quarter.

00:27:53 It doesn't happen to you very often,

00:27:56 but are you kind of like stewing in that moment?

00:27:59 Or you accept that as like you weren't playing well,

00:28:02 and you had to just accept it?

00:28:04 How does that work?

00:28:07 I don't know.

00:28:07 I haven't been in that position too often.

00:28:09 So it kind of is what it is.

00:28:12 We weren't playing our best.

00:28:13 I wasn't playing my best, so nothing I could really

00:28:15 say there.

00:28:18 Every time I step out on the court,

00:28:19 I try to add the women in tonight.

00:28:22 I try to make sure I was being as selfish as getting the guys,

00:28:25 but hitting our guys in stride and sharing the ball and stuff.

00:28:29 But it was a little lackadaisical.

00:28:31 It wasn't my best game.

00:28:32 But I put it behind me.

00:28:34 I'll be ready for the next one.

00:28:35 There's some ownership.

00:28:42 Do you think he was bothered by it, Bobby?

00:28:45 Yeah, I'm sure.

00:28:46 No, nothing--

00:28:47 Like, bothered like, I can't believe

00:28:49 you embarrassed me like that on national television.

00:28:51 Yeah, no, not to that level.

00:28:53 That's not great.

00:28:54 That's not a great look, right?

00:28:56 Yeah, I don't think it got to that level.

00:28:59 Of course, he mostly dodged the question there

00:29:02 in terms of his feelings about it.

00:29:04 But Chris Dasporzingas talked about the same thing

00:29:06 in the locker room and said, yeah,

00:29:07 you don't like getting benched, but we

00:29:09 had to try something different because what we were doing

00:29:12 wasn't working.

00:29:12 So I do think just seeing guys in the locker room,

00:29:16 seeing the demeanor of guys, that this one didn't rock them,

00:29:19 rock their confidence in the coach.

00:29:20 In fact, I asked Chris Stapps what Joe's message was

00:29:24 and did he agree with it.

00:29:26 And he did say that they all generally

00:29:29 felt like they can learn something from this

00:29:31 and that in games where you win, which I think

00:29:35 is relevant for the Pacers and Pelicans game that preceded

00:29:37 this, you might get away with certain things

00:29:40 and forget about mistakes you made that are going

00:29:43 to stick with you after a loss.

00:29:45 And this does end a long stretch of games here.

00:29:48 They're going to get two practices in over the next week

00:29:50 here.

00:29:51 So I do think you're more in tightening up mode here

00:29:54 rather than concern mode or panic mode or anything.

00:29:56 Especially I looked at some of the stats

00:29:58 that were concerning out of this game.

00:30:00 And honestly, whether it's turnovers,

00:30:01 whether it's free throws, different things,

00:30:03 I know you guys probably kicked around at the start.

00:30:05 They really didn't struggle in those areas in January.

00:30:08 So I don't come away from this one panicking.

00:30:12 But you do raise your eyebrow and say, all right,

00:30:15 how long is this going to linger here?

00:30:16 Do a few of these pop up?

00:30:18 There were a few games in January.

00:30:20 The Pacers won, the Rockets won on the road,

00:30:23 but you turned it over a ton and still won in spite of that.

00:30:27 So this is where it really killed them.

00:30:29 It was only three second half turnovers, right?

00:30:31 Yeah, but the nine in the opening frame.

00:30:33 Oh, it was ridiculous.

00:30:34 Yeah, ridiculous.

00:30:35 It was like Keystone.

00:30:40 It was just like a blooper reel.

00:30:43 It was every other possession.

00:30:45 I think I got enough of a feel that Joe's approach

00:30:49 to this game seemed to go over well with the players.

00:30:53 I don't think there was anybody turning their head at him

00:30:55 or what he did in this one, or even what he said

00:30:57 after the game, which of course, in Joe's fashion,

00:31:00 was trying to turn down the heat and not

00:31:03 cause any panic over this one.

00:31:05 But the bigger question, I think, is does that work?

00:31:08 Does that resonate?

00:31:09 Does it turn into a positive out of this?

00:31:13 Because as we've talked about, John, Joe's approach

00:31:17 is almost the polar opposite of Emae's in terms of, listen,

00:31:21 we're going to be fine.

00:31:23 I know you guys are freaking out.

00:31:24 It's one night.

00:31:25 This stuff happens.

00:31:25 In fact, he walked into the interview room

00:31:27 and was like, that's the NBA, right?

00:31:28 And it was an interesting press conference, really.

00:31:34 It was almost like he was trying to swing it toward jokes.

00:31:36 I asked him what the turnovers stem from,

00:31:39 and he was like, oh, you saw those, right?

00:31:41 Those were something.

00:31:43 I was like, yeah, what caused them?

00:31:45 And he was like--

00:31:48 he didn't even answer the question.

00:31:51 I just-- I wonder how it goes over,

00:31:54 how it flows into this next string of games here.

00:31:56 I know they're running into some really easy opponents

00:31:59 this next week here.

00:32:00 So if you lose any of these games

00:32:03 against the Grizzlies and Hawks and Wizards,

00:32:07 that's where you're going to be like, all right,

00:32:08 what's going on here?

00:32:09 But this did feel like an anomaly.

00:32:13 And Chris Stapp said, too, when LeBron, when Davis,

00:32:16 when those guys are ruled out, he was talking to Holliday

00:32:19 and said, oh, here we go.

00:32:21 This is going to be a tough one because that's

00:32:23 just how it goes sometimes.

00:32:24 So this was a rough one to watch.

00:32:28 It was puzzling at times what they were doing out there

00:32:33 because this isn't who they've been all year.

00:32:35 And so if you want to call that an anomaly,

00:32:37 I guess I'll give it to them for now.

00:32:39 But I feel like in recent weeks, John,

00:32:41 I got to pull up the games here, there's been a few of these.

00:32:44 So you start to look at them and say, all right,

00:32:47 what's going on here?

00:32:49 But for now, it doesn't seem like it's a trend of anything.

00:32:52 Do you feel differently?

00:32:54 Like about this particular game or this stretch?

00:32:59 Yeah, I mean, you go back to the Bucs game.

00:33:02 This one does seem interesting.

00:33:04 Like I said, I kind of said it last time.

00:33:05 Jimmy gave me some heat.

00:33:06 Like I'm not concerned.

00:33:10 It's kind of a roundabout stance.

00:33:11 I'm not concerned for each individual game

00:33:15 because I've kind of fast forwarded to the future

00:33:19 and decided that we'll judge them then.

00:33:23 You know what I mean?

00:33:24 Nobody gives a-- every good team has missteps along the way.

00:33:28 So it's not necessarily representative

00:33:31 of how they'll be.

00:33:32 The problem is it's games like this and efforts like this

00:33:35 and nights like these that have burned them

00:33:38 and critical moments in the playoffs in years past.

00:33:41 And you always worry like if it's just

00:33:44 embedded in the DNA of your stars.

00:33:47 And I'll maintain this from three years ago

00:33:51 to beginning of this year to now.

00:33:55 The additions are great.

00:33:56 It's Tatum and Brown that are going to win or lose this

00:33:59 for you.

00:33:59 And how they come out and how they play

00:34:01 and whether they're serious all the time

00:34:03 and whether they're focused on what they're supposed

00:34:05 to be doing, whether they cut down on the mental lapses.

00:34:09 Don't freestyle it.

00:34:10 Don't force it.

00:34:11 Make the right reads.

00:34:11 Be patient.

00:34:12 Let the game come to them.

00:34:13 Play defense.

00:34:14 Do the little things.

00:34:15 Rebound.

00:34:16 Hit the deck.

00:34:17 Play tough.

00:34:18 Be leaders.

00:34:19 If they do those things, they've got a great, great chance.

00:34:22 But if they shrink in that moment, they're dead.

00:34:24 Like they're dead.

00:34:25 And so when you see tonight Brown walking around

00:34:30 or the Knights that Tatum clearly is disinterested

00:34:33 and just chucking threes, those kill you.

00:34:35 I hate seeing it because it's a reminder of what you've seen

00:34:40 and what you don't want to see.

00:34:41 But in a vacuum, one game like this--

00:34:45 I agree with the chatters and the fans who say,

00:34:48 it happens all the time in the NBA.

00:34:50 Don't be so myopic here.

00:34:52 It's not like just the Celtics.

00:34:54 I get it.

00:34:55 It happens.

00:34:56 But with these guys, it always worries you

00:34:58 some because of their past and because it's

00:35:04 a championship-robust season.

00:35:06 Yeah, and that's what you look at and say, what the hell?

00:35:09 There's a level of focus and consistency

00:35:12 they should be demanding of themselves in this moment.

00:35:15 And to their credit, I'm sure they showed it on TV,

00:35:17 John Tatum got pretty fiery there in the third,

00:35:20 both on the bench and on the floor,

00:35:22 to try to rally them in this one.

00:35:23 And this, I think, did mostly come down

00:35:26 to Jaylen's lackadaisical play, as he

00:35:27 said in the quote there, and Chris Staffs just

00:35:30 being completely off in this one, which is obviously

00:35:32 abnormal for him in the year he's had.

00:35:35 A lot of settling, the transition defense,

00:35:37 that's been a little bit of a consistent theme

00:35:42 in their recent lead-ups here, is their failure

00:35:44 to get back and set themselves and not

00:35:47 fall in the match-ups and not get

00:35:49 our rotation into those quick entries into the half court.

00:35:52 I mean, the Lakers flew into the zone in this one

00:35:54 and just had the Celtics all crossed up.

00:35:57 And that's what leads to 15 offensive rebounds, too.

00:36:00 - I want to call a quick timeout and talk about this play.

00:36:02 I don't know if this is how Fuzzy intended it.

00:36:05 I don't know if he's saying like--

00:36:06 - No, I know what he's saying.

00:36:08 They've gotten away with it.

00:36:09 - So I would agree there.

00:36:11 That's a concern.

00:36:12 So we've lauded them for playing like ass

00:36:15 and finding ways to win and not caving in

00:36:16 and not losing these games, which is cool

00:36:19 in the regular season, because you have so many

00:36:21 of those last year, like the OKC game

00:36:23 or the Knicks or whatever, and you're like,

00:36:25 oh my god, this is end of the world sort of stuff.

00:36:28 The sky is falling watching them play that way.

00:36:31 And they've won a bunch of games playing poorly this year.

00:36:34 And that's a bad thing, because in the playoffs,

00:36:36 you won't do that.

00:36:38 You're not.

00:36:39 There's too many good teams.

00:36:40 You could be facing a really, really good team

00:36:42 in the first round.

00:36:43 So it's really-- and more realistically,

00:36:46 by the time you get to the second round,

00:36:48 you're facing a team that if you don't take seriously,

00:36:50 they will absolutely beat you.

00:36:52 And talent alone won't win it.

00:36:54 And so that's a reasonable point here,

00:36:58 to not be thrilled when they can mess around and still

00:37:02 win the game.

00:37:03 And it would stand to reason the roster is much better this year.

00:37:06 You'll get away with more of those games

00:37:08 based on your talent alone.

00:37:09 We said it all year.

00:37:10 You can have two guys walking around, chucking shots,

00:37:14 missing it, and then everyone else will correct it for them.

00:37:18 The other talented guys will kind of pull them out

00:37:20 of the mire, and you can survive.

00:37:22 You've survived games this year with bad Brown and Paytum

00:37:25 Knights at the same time.

00:37:27 That's something you could have never done before.

00:37:29 And really, if you had one of the two completely off,

00:37:32 you had a big chance of winning.

00:37:34 You can get away with it now because of the talent.

00:37:36 Yeah, you're right.

00:37:39 Yeah, and when you look at the recent games,

00:37:41 the Pelicans, Pacers game, you squandered big leads

00:37:44 in those ones.

00:37:45 The Clippers game, obviously, was a big sore mark

00:37:48 against a really good team.

00:37:49 But still, the Heat game, historic shooting,

00:37:52 kind of drove you in that one.

00:37:54 And you were still going to win the game either way.

00:37:56 But you go back to the Road Rockets game, which

00:37:59 wasn't great.

00:38:00 And Dallas game had its lapses, the late game

00:38:02 execution against Denver.

00:38:03 So you're on a little bit of an extended run

00:38:07 here going back to mid-January of some games

00:38:09 that you didn't come away from feeling great out of.

00:38:12 And could even go back to that Milwaukee game

00:38:15 if you really wanted to bring it back to that point.

00:38:17 So there's some concerns here, John.

00:38:19 And things we've talked about all year,

00:38:21 they can't get to the free throw line.

00:38:23 It's a real struggle for them.

00:38:24 And Joe really didn't have an answer for what--

00:38:27 he said it to me before, too.

00:38:29 You can't force the other team to follow you.

00:38:32 But there was a huge differential in this game

00:38:35 based on the Lakers' aggressiveness versus Celtics'

00:38:37 aggressiveness.

00:38:38 And they were very passive at times in terms of where

00:38:41 they put themselves on the floor.

00:38:43 They really didn't get Porzingis mismatches

00:38:45 until very late in the fourth quarter.

00:38:47 That's where they've generated most of their free throws

00:38:49 from this year.

00:38:50 So that's a concern I have.

00:38:52 Transition defense, it's building.

00:38:54 Defensive rebound, and they've had some difficult nights

00:38:57 in that area recently, too.

00:39:00 We can get into some other stuff, too.

00:39:03 But those are the ones that really stand out to me.

00:39:05 Turnovers, I feel like they've had timely ones.

00:39:08 But I did look, John.

00:39:09 That's one of those things.

00:39:10 They were first in terms of fewest turnovers last month.

00:39:14 So I guess you can scratch that one off

00:39:17 as abnormal, but they have had timely ones.

00:39:19 Someone sent me a cool stat that Brown, I think,

00:39:22 has seven zero turnover games this year.

00:39:28 How many do you think he had all of last year?

00:39:30 Fewer than that.

00:39:34 Five.

00:39:35 So he already has more zero turnover games.

00:39:37 So again, it's not as--

00:39:38 And he had one in that New Orleans game, 7-0.

00:39:40 It's not as big a problem as it is.

00:39:43 So it, in fact, magnifies it when you see them doing it,

00:39:46 because it's just not caring.

00:39:50 It was just sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

00:39:54 Yeah.

00:39:56 Yeah, and that does happen this time of year.

00:39:58 You're getting into the all-star break.

00:40:00 You're trying to just survive and get through that 15,

00:40:05 I think 16 now, games and probably 20-something games

00:40:09 here.

00:40:10 So it's been an extended stretch of play.

00:40:12 They're just getting into this homestand

00:40:14 here that's going to keep them here for a little bit.

00:40:17 So I don't think this is a panic game,

00:40:20 but it is the first time, with no excuses really,

00:40:24 you look and say, what the hell was that?

00:40:26 Like we did often last regular season.

00:40:29 And those concerns from those games last year--

00:40:32 and there were many, many more than this year--

00:40:35 those drove, despite a similar reaction

00:40:38 from this team, from this coach, our doubts about them

00:40:41 going into the playoffs.

00:40:42 And they reared their head among their reliance on the three.

00:40:46 Last year, specifically, their defensive issues,

00:40:49 which we really hit on throughout last regular season.

00:40:52 Different issues than some of the things

00:40:54 we're talking about here with this team,

00:40:56 but things that did play a factor in those playoff

00:40:59 disappointments they had.

00:41:01 Yeah.

00:41:02 Let me ask you this.

00:41:03 I'm not doing blame pie tonight, but I will do concern cake.

00:41:06 I wish I had a graphic for it.

00:41:08 What aspect of tonight's game are you most concerned with?

00:41:13 A lot of people in here putting it on Joe.

00:41:15 A lot of people here putting it on Brown.

00:41:17 Some people putting it on Brown and Tatum.

00:41:20 What thing concerns you most that you see tonight

00:41:25 and in the snapshot, the games where we haven't loved--

00:41:29 the inconsistent effort games, but especially

00:41:32 kind of highlighted by everything being asked tonight?

00:41:37 I think the number one thing isn't on the court.

00:41:41 It's their demeanor in terms of not being upset about this,

00:41:46 or at least reactionary to it in a sense of this is bad.

00:41:52 This is unacceptable.

00:41:53 And Joe did use those words, but you just

00:41:55 didn't get that vibe from any of these guys.

00:41:57 I know we'll probably hear from Joe Sway on Jason's approach,

00:42:01 but I do already see him saying, just move on.

00:42:03 And again, that was something we heard from him

00:42:05 in the playoffs last year.

00:42:07 That's something we heard from him throughout last year.

00:42:09 And I know Chris Steffs got asked, too,

00:42:11 do you have to sit on this for a little bit

00:42:13 and just kind of feel it and assess it?

00:42:14 And I just don't think that's how

00:42:16 this team approaches these things.

00:42:19 And maybe they'll get into it on a deeper level

00:42:21 given some of the off days they have coming up

00:42:24 in the practice opportunities.

00:42:25 But they should be a little more angry about this one,

00:42:28 especially Jason, who did seem to be demonstrably upset

00:42:32 on the court with how things were going and trying

00:42:34 to get the team going and all that.

00:42:36 So that's number one.

00:42:37 Number two, as I mentioned, you really, in a game like this,

00:42:41 need to be able to get the free throw line to slow things down,

00:42:45 to build some composure, to balance the math that's

00:42:48 going against you.

00:42:49 And obviously, this was an abnormal shooting game

00:42:51 from the Lakers by a long stretch.

00:42:53 But yeah, that's one I keep looking at.

00:42:55 And then is the defense just slipping that much, John,

00:42:59 to where you're having these mistakes,

00:43:01 to where you're not looking dominant,

00:43:03 to where you can't ramp that up in a game like this, where

00:43:05 things are going against you the way they were offensively.

00:43:08 Maybe you were mad about some calls.

00:43:10 Maybe shots didn't go in at certain points.

00:43:12 What did they finish from three in this one?

00:43:13 33.

00:43:15 So it wasn't a great night from three.

00:43:17 It's not the Clippers.

00:43:20 Yeah.

00:43:22 It wasn't great.

00:43:24 Yeah, but you couldn't lean into that defense

00:43:26 to really get close when you needed to.

00:43:28 I mean, they were within 10 pretty much the whole second

00:43:30 half, John.

00:43:31 They were right there in striking distance.

00:43:33 They needed one run.

00:43:34 You win this game.

00:43:35 The lazy man's way back into the game

00:43:37 is keep chucking and hope that they fall, right?

00:43:40 The way you grind these out is you just

00:43:43 suffocate them on defense, right?

00:43:46 And again, granted, Reeves hit some tough shots,

00:43:48 and the Lakers shot an ungodly number from three.

00:43:51 They averaged 11 a game.

00:43:52 They hit 19 tonight.

00:43:53 So that's an anomaly.

00:43:55 You don't expect those.

00:43:56 But even on a decent shooting night, they make 14, 15 of those.

00:44:01 So it happens.

00:44:03 But I still can't decide whether it's a good thing that they

00:44:08 brush this stuff off or it's not.

00:44:10 That's where I kind of get stuck.

00:44:11 Because, yeah, I don't want to see them--

00:44:14 do we need to see them throwing chairs and screaming and yelling

00:44:17 and this and that?

00:44:18 I don't know.

00:44:19 I think fans like it.

00:44:20 I think fans want to know that they're pissed.

00:44:23 But I also-- I've said this a million times before.

00:44:26 In post-game commentary and stuff like that,

00:44:30 do you want to see a guy-- you want to see Jalen going and spazzing out

00:44:33 on the bench and yelling at people?

00:44:35 Do you want to see in a post-game them just flipping out?

00:44:37 I don't think they want to give that to the media and like, OK, here I am.

00:44:41 Put on a show.

00:44:42 Look how mad I am.

00:44:43 They just-- they're like, I don't want to talk to you about this.

00:44:46 I'm pissed enough.

00:44:47 But is that there?

00:44:48 Is that there with anyone in that room?

00:44:50 Like, does anyone-- of course, we only get

00:44:52 to talk to certain people at these games.

00:44:54 Like, did Drew come out of this one feeling like, what the hell was this,

00:44:57 guys?

00:44:58 And was there sentiment lower down the roster of like,

00:45:02 what the hell are we doing?

00:45:03 And of course, as you say, John, it has to start at the top.

00:45:05 And you do hear from Jalen and Jason tonight.

00:45:08 I'm sure Jalen was not happy with how this one went.

00:45:12 And a lot of it did fall on himself.

00:45:14 He took the accountability for that.

00:45:16 But Jason's the one, right?

00:45:20 He's the one who you want to see this bother.

00:45:24 Because it's going to flow from him.

00:45:25 Forget Joe.

00:45:26 Like, I think Joe is trying to protect these guys and not call them out.

00:45:33 Maybe he's doing things internally that we don't know about.

00:45:37 But he doesn't want to be the one who--

00:45:39 He thinks everything is a poke at him, too.

00:45:42 And he doesn't want to--

00:45:44 there's some sensitivity in a lot of it trying to protect the players

00:45:47 and not overreact to things.

00:45:48 So he's throwing the ball on the grenade, yeah.

00:45:51 Forget Joe.

00:45:52 Because he's not--

00:45:54 I don't know, who would you say is the leader of this team, John?

00:45:57 I don't think it's Joe.

00:45:58 And publicly, I think he's trying to put it on himself a lot of the times.

00:46:02 I think he's taking a lot of the attention.

00:46:04 I think he's directing a lot of the conversation.

00:46:08 But when it comes to what's actually going on in the room,

00:46:10 as we saw on the sideline tonight, it starts and ends with Jason.

00:46:15 And really, Jason and Jalen is a tandem.

00:46:17 It's going to all flow down from them.

00:46:19 And Chris Stapps might have his thoughts.

00:46:21 And Drew, I'm sure, has his thoughts about things.

00:46:23 But they're going to defer to those guys because it's their team.

00:46:27 So listen, I know I get frustrated with Joe, too.

00:46:30 And I know the chat does.

00:46:32 And it's always going to be fire him after games like these.

00:46:34 But when are Jalen and Jason going to be the ones who grab this and really

00:46:41 run with it in nights like these, especially come playoff time?

00:46:44 Forget this game.

00:46:45 We all know it doesn't matter in the grand scheme.

00:46:47 But the only thing we're worried about, John,

00:46:50 and what we're trying to figure out here is,

00:46:51 how do these things pop up in the playoffs?

00:46:53 Because we sat here last year and said, oh, forget it, Pacers.

00:46:57 Oh, the Thunder game, of course they sleptwalk through that.

00:46:59 It's the Thunder.

00:47:00 And this and that.

00:47:01 We didn't care about those games last year.

00:47:03 But they mattered in the end because they didn't build up

00:47:05 the habits and the consistency that you needed to show off in the playoffs.

00:47:10 And we get to the playoffs.

00:47:13 And you've said this, John.

00:47:14 They got into the NBA finals two years ago.

00:47:16 And it was like, oh, we didn't have it tonight.

00:47:18 And then you got into the playoffs last year.

00:47:20 And it was like, oh, whatever.

00:47:21 We're up 2-0.

00:47:22 It was a bad game.

00:47:23 On to the next one.

00:47:24 You can't do that in the playoffs.

00:47:26 Those things don't fly there.

00:47:27 So the fact that you let them sign the regular season,

00:47:29 does it build a bad habit?

00:47:31 Does it build a bad message internally that you can just

00:47:34 brush these off and be fine with them?

00:47:36 Yep.

00:47:37 You don't have to be throwing chairs, John.

00:47:39 You just have to acknowledge, this is unacceptable.

00:47:42 And again, Joe used that word.

00:47:44 But is that really what's being stressed in the room?

00:47:46 Yeah, that's the thing.

00:47:47 I guess unacceptable, it's like--

00:47:51 I'll go back to what Joe's press conference.

00:47:54 I do have kids, OK?

00:47:56 And I understand how kids react to things.

00:47:58 There we go.

00:47:59 That's the analogy we've been waiting for.

00:48:01 No, all I'm saying is, I do--

00:48:02 No, I want to hear it.

00:48:04 No, when I tell my kids, don't do something,

00:48:07 and they say, I'm sorry, and then they do it again,

00:48:10 that bothers me.

00:48:12 You know, like, that's the thing that pisses me off the most is,

00:48:14 did you really mean it?

00:48:15 Were you sorry?

00:48:16 Or you're mad that it happened?

00:48:20 And when they keep repeating it, it's

00:48:21 like, don't say that to me.

00:48:23 Like, I don't like the--

00:48:25 when somebody says it's unacceptable,

00:48:27 then you want them to not do that again, you know?

00:48:30 So they've done it too many times to fans.

00:48:35 And I think that's where people get tired of it, is, yeah,

00:48:37 we just can't play like that.

00:48:39 Great.

00:48:40 I mean, Bobby, you remember.

00:48:41 I mean, two years ago in the finals--

00:48:43 in the finals, they're delivering--

00:48:47 we just didn't come out with the right energy tonight.

00:48:49 The finals.

00:48:51 How in the world do you get to the finals,

00:48:54 and you've got your two best players saying,

00:48:56 we just didn't really have it tonight?

00:48:58 Oh my god, you know?

00:49:00 Yeah, and Joe wasn't the coach back then.

00:49:02 And Joe wasn't the coach.

00:49:03 So this is what I always said, is, like, did it with Brad,

00:49:06 did it with Emei.

00:49:06 You know, like, that's the stuff.

00:49:07 It's like-- and that's why I want

00:49:09 to fast forward to the playoffs.

00:49:10 The Jays have it, or they don't.

00:49:13 That's it.

00:49:13 Like, they're either going to be the guys who lead you,

00:49:18 or they're going to be the reason you lose.

00:49:19 That's it.

00:49:20 It's not Joe.

00:49:22 It's not, oh, well, Holiday ended up not being

00:49:25 as good as I thought.

00:49:26 It's those guys.

00:49:27 The bench.

00:49:28 Why didn't they add a guy on the bench?

00:49:30 Guys.

00:49:31 It's always been those guys.

00:49:32 So it's on them.

00:49:33 It's on them.

00:49:34 I will say one thing, and I'm just going to--

00:49:35 It was Luke.

00:49:36 This is obvious, and it goes without saying.

00:49:38 Anybody in the chat says something culturally,

00:49:41 racially insensitive, misogynistic.

00:49:44 If you go at each other in an insulting way,

00:49:46 or you insult somebody on the program,

00:49:48 at best, you're getting put in timeout.

00:49:50 And at worst, you're going to get blocked and removed

00:49:52 from the show and the chat completely.

00:49:54 So please, come on.

00:49:55 Be respectful of one another, and don't say dumb shit.

00:49:59 Anyway, back to this.

00:50:00 It's the Jays.

00:50:01 It's always been the Jays.

00:50:02 And that's what it's going to come down to.

00:50:04 And let's head on, Jalen, because we

00:50:06 talked about it earlier, John.

00:50:08 The all-star nod, the column from Lowe,

00:50:11 the assessment of the analytics and all that.

00:50:13 It's fitting, almost, that he had the game he had tonight,

00:50:17 because we've gone at it over him here.

00:50:20 And he needs to be better than this for things

00:50:23 to go the way you want it to this year.

00:50:25 And the worry with him that I think so many people have,

00:50:29 and you included, he can sometimes

00:50:34 put too much on his own shoulders.

00:50:37 And when he tries to do too much,

00:50:41 it can really derail the offense.

00:50:43 And it hasn't happened in a while.

00:50:46 But tonight was an example of that.

00:50:49 I thought he just led far too many possessions in this one.

00:50:54 And that's what it came down to, especially given the night he

00:50:57 had here.

00:50:58 And so we know Joe puts it on these guys

00:51:00 to organize themselves and structure this offense.

00:51:02 And he'll throw in a play here or there.

00:51:04 But I thought the ball needed to be Tatum's hands more often.

00:51:08 I thought the ball needed to be in White's hands too often.

00:51:10 And we've said that throughout this year.

00:51:12 And Brad keeps stressing, I can be this playmaker.

00:51:14 And he's done it.

00:51:15 He's shown it.

00:51:16 He had some good moments, even in this one.

00:51:19 But man, bad decisions just overtook this game.

00:51:21 What stood out most to you, John?

00:51:23 What stood out most to me is the seven assists,

00:51:25 because I don't remember any of them.

00:51:27 We know it's also amazing to me.

00:51:33 The Celtics finished with 29 assists tonight.

00:51:37 Yeah.

00:51:38 It's not always an indicator, right?

00:51:40 Right?

00:51:42 How is that possible?

00:51:43 It looked like they weren't moving the ball at all.

00:51:46 Some of the worst teams in the league

00:51:47 are among the league leaders in assists.

00:51:49 So we like that number.

00:51:50 You like when it's higher.

00:51:51 But it's not always going to say you did great things

00:51:54 offensively.

00:51:55 No, it's not.

00:51:55 Look, the Jalen stuff we talked about earlier

00:51:59 was the all-star related stuff.

00:52:02 I don't think it's necessarily need to get into it.

00:52:04 But it really is.

00:52:05 It comes down to who is the guy?

00:52:08 Who is he?

00:52:13 What is he?

00:52:14 And what does he need to be?

00:52:15 And we always said the best version of Jalen Brown

00:52:17 is the guy who does less, right?

00:52:20 And meaning allowing the game to come to him

00:52:23 and being able to do the things that he excels at,

00:52:26 of which there are many, particularly

00:52:31 getting to the basket, strong, muscling people,

00:52:34 getting into that mid-range, getting out in transition,

00:52:37 terrific stuff, and making the reads easier for him.

00:52:41 And so just to read a comment from--

00:52:43 because it was interesting-- from Zach Lowe,

00:52:47 talking about his all-stars.

00:52:48 He puts Jalen Brown in because he's

00:52:49 eligible for front court and back court.

00:52:52 And he writes, OK, time for the Jalen Brown conversation,

00:52:55 period.

00:52:56 He's a tad overrated.

00:52:57 He's averaging 22.6 points, down from 26.6 last year.

00:53:01 Advanced numbers frown upon him, likely due

00:53:03 to his unreliable decision making.

00:53:05 He's averaging 3.7 assists and 2.4 turnovers.

00:53:08 Those advanced numbers paint him as a mediocre and sometimes

00:53:11 inattentive defender.

00:53:13 And that's always been the kind of knock on Brown,

00:53:15 is like, at his best, he does things at such an elite level

00:53:19 that you can get people thinking, maybe he's the guy,

00:53:22 right?

00:53:23 Maybe he's better than Tatum.

00:53:24 Because he can be an unstoppable force,

00:53:27 and he can get hot, and he can carry you for entire quarters

00:53:29 and win games for you.

00:53:31 And when he locks in on defense, he can be an impact defender.

00:53:38 It's just not enough, right?

00:53:39 And what they did this year is they opened things up.

00:53:41 They made it simpler.

00:53:42 They're getting the ball in situations

00:53:44 where he can see the court a little bit better,

00:53:46 make right reads.

00:53:47 He's much better about not being indecisive this year.

00:53:51 The turnovers are down a tad.

00:53:53 I mean, he's being better about not forcing the issue

00:53:56 this year, and he's making more of the right reads.

00:53:58 So there's certainly some improvement there.

00:54:00 But now the scoring is down, and there's a question

00:54:02 of whether or not it's all-star worthy, especially when you've

00:54:05 got Porzingis and White playing the way they've been playing

00:54:08 in possibly a more complete game.

00:54:10 So it's an interesting debate on it.

00:54:12 And then he comes out tonight and throws a stinker.

00:54:14 But you had two prominent national writers

00:54:17 come out between Zach Lowe and then John Hollinger.

00:54:20 Hollinger left him off completely,

00:54:21 and he put Porzingis and White on his all-star teams.

00:54:25 Yeah, and Hollinger beat him.

00:54:28 The reward for winning crowd is going

00:54:30 to push hard from Jesus Hollinger,

00:54:31 hard from Jalen Brown or Julius Randall, or maybe Jared Allen.

00:54:35 None of those guys have been good enough this season.

00:54:38 Each has seen his play drop off a bit,

00:54:40 and they were already pretty fringy all-stars.

00:54:42 So that's not a lot of national respect for this guy.

00:54:45 And it's something that he's fought from within.

00:54:47 I know everyone in the chat's going to say,

00:54:49 the Boston guys are going to drive him out of town.

00:54:51 But nationally, this is kind of a viewpoint of Jalen Brown.

00:54:55 He's-- of who he is.

00:54:56 So that was the debate that we were having earlier today,

00:54:59 or at least throwing that stuff around.

00:55:02 Yeah, and he came under a greater microscope

00:55:04 after the East finals.

00:55:06 Provided he's an all-NBA guy, and he's a $300 million

00:55:10 contract guy.

00:55:11 So the expectations obviously--

00:55:12 All those things.

00:55:13 --are going to change.

00:55:14 Yeah, all those things for sure.

00:55:15 And that was always going to be the difficulty for him.

00:55:17 And I think he's talked about this a little bit too.

00:55:20 Do you have to go out and play like you're

00:55:23 earning that deal, that money?

00:55:25 Certainly, the expectations are high too on the team here.

00:55:28 So are you forcing too much to carry the team at times?

00:55:33 And I think that's a balance he always walks of.

00:55:35 All right, we really need to break this defense open

00:55:37 right now.

00:55:38 We're down in this game by double digits here.

00:55:40 So I'm going to go make a play.

00:55:42 And I think that's one of the things that

00:55:44 makes him great at times, that makes him frustrating at times.

00:55:48 He can get that laser vision.

00:55:51 There's moments even tonight's game where you see him just

00:55:53 kind of freeze up.

00:55:54 He was in that double team on the baseline

00:55:56 where it felt like the entire possession as the Lakers were

00:56:00 trapping him.

00:56:00 And then finally, Joe called the time out from the sideline.

00:56:03 There's just some moments out there

00:56:05 where things seem to move a little too fast for him,

00:56:08 or he's not able to slow things down,

00:56:10 which I felt like it was the biggest thing they needed

00:56:12 in this game, was to just slow things down and execute.

00:56:16 Joe called this an effort game to a large degree.

00:56:18 They didn't play hard.

00:56:19 They just sucked.

00:56:20 But I felt like for a lot of this game,

00:56:22 they just really struggled to execute defensively,

00:56:26 certainly being in the right positions,

00:56:27 getting themselves set, which is an effort thing in itself,

00:56:31 but also offensively, getting into the spacing and actions

00:56:35 that they wanted to there.

00:56:36 And too often, he was just driving downhill trying

00:56:38 to make something happen.

00:56:39 Yeah.

00:56:40 Let's hear from Joe Sway quick.

00:56:41 Were you in on Tatum?

00:56:42 Yeah.

00:56:44 You know what?

00:56:44 I like his analogy way better than Joe Mazzullo's, which

00:56:47 was just a bad week at work.

00:56:48 And you look at the numbers, I mean,

00:56:51 yeah, they haven't been playing their usual selves,

00:56:54 but the turnovers are down.

00:56:55 There's a lot of positives to look at.

00:56:57 So I can see why Jason Tatum's looking at it big picture wise.

00:57:02 And yeah, he just kept it pretty--

00:57:05 kept it positive, came with the turn things around,

00:57:08 next time around, all that kind of stuff.

00:57:10 Let me ask you this question.

00:57:12 Would you prefer it--

00:57:14 anybody, chat too, I'm curious.

00:57:17 Would you prefer it if Tatum came out and lost his mind

00:57:23 and said, I'm looking at myself and up and down that bench,

00:57:28 and some of our guys were supposed to be leaders,

00:57:31 and we didn't do it tonight?

00:57:32 What if he called people out?

00:57:33 What if he threw some bombs?

00:57:35 I wouldn't like it, to be honest,

00:57:37 because it would show that they were very unstable mentally,

00:57:39 that this loss really got to him.

00:57:41 Whereas if you're in the game, though--

00:57:43 You think they're unstable mentally?

00:57:44 No, no.

00:57:45 I mean, if that was in game, though, during a timeout, yes.

00:57:49 I would love that.

00:57:50 In game, he does that?

00:57:52 Yeah.

00:57:52 But pouting at the podium doesn't have the same effect,

00:57:56 if you ask me.

00:57:56 OK.

00:57:57 In game, I would love that.

00:57:58 I would love that.

00:57:59 In a timeout, getting in people's faces, Tatum?

00:58:01 Oh, I would love that.

00:58:02 You know what?

00:58:03 Tonight was something I haven't seen in a while from Tatum,

00:58:06 when he got that loose ball, right, Bobby?

00:58:07 Just screaming on top of his leg.

00:58:09 He almost looked like Paul Pierce in game seven

00:58:11 when he grabbed it from LeBron, man.

00:58:12 Like, he lost it.

00:58:13 And I was hoping that would carry over for the team.

00:58:16 I thought it would.

00:58:17 I thought it would for the team, though.

00:58:19 Maybe you think when that happened, John,

00:58:19 that they were going to go on that run after that--

00:58:21 It never did, man.

00:58:23 It never did.

00:58:24 And you know, a lot of it--

00:58:26 Because that was that--

00:58:27 sorry, Bobby, real quick.

00:58:28 That was that classic, like, the referee called it a jump ball,

00:58:31 but he's like, no, I'm keeping this.

00:58:32 You're not going to get this ball for me.

00:58:34 And he tried, and Tatum was like, no.

00:58:36 He never let go.

00:58:37 So I just love that, obviously, his reaction.

00:58:39 Well, that's there in this one, right?

00:58:41 And the benchings are there, John, which isn't

00:58:43 something Joe does often.

00:58:45 So you did have those two attempts at the top

00:58:48 to instill some accountability there,

00:58:51 at least send a message.

00:58:52 I mean, I don't know if you talked about Joe Sway,

00:58:54 him getting into the guys on the bench there,

00:58:57 but that's not common from Tatum either.

00:58:58 So the fact that they attempted that,

00:59:00 even if it didn't work in this one, I think is a real step.

00:59:04 And listen, as we've always said,

00:59:06 if the accountability is happening internally,

00:59:08 that's fine, even if they don't want to bring it public.

00:59:10 But we liked when Imei did that.

00:59:12 At least I did.

00:59:13 You had that.

00:59:14 No, Imei called him out flat out both years.

00:59:17 That's a question-- well, that was a question I was going

00:59:18 to ask you guys.

00:59:20 Do you want to see Mazzullo do that?

00:59:21 Because obviously, it worked that season.

00:59:23 I thought he might tonight.

00:59:24 And maybe I was stupid for feeling that way,

00:59:26 because he just doesn't do it.

00:59:28 But I feel like tonight was that bad.

00:59:30 And he benched three guys at the beginning of the third there.

00:59:34 I thought it was coming.

00:59:35 Listen, guys, I've tried to let him off the hook,

00:59:38 but tonight was awful.

00:59:40 Let me change the question.

00:59:41 What if Tatum said, not calling people out, what if he said,

00:59:45 we are never winning a championship if we

00:59:49 don't break habits like these?

00:59:51 What if he said something like that?

00:59:52 I would love that.

00:59:53 I want to hear that.

00:59:54 That's what we're waiting for.

00:59:55 Yeah, I would love that.

00:59:56 Because that's what I mean.

00:59:57 I think it just--

00:59:58 I've been trying to figure out where you want to see it.

01:00:00 Because we said this about Brad.

01:00:02 And he's like, oh, he just never got to the point

01:00:05 where you felt like he sensed urgency

01:00:07 over what we were seeing.

01:00:08 And that's kind of what you wanted.

01:00:10 It wasn't like the throw the chair moment

01:00:13 or the ranting press conference.

01:00:15 I think I phrased it incorrectly the first time.

01:00:17 It's the acknowledgment that this problem,

01:00:21 it could be a big problem if we don't fix it, as opposed to,

01:00:25 nah, we're fine.

01:00:27 So it's not that you want your pound of flesh

01:00:31 to have them necessarily--

01:00:32 and you kind of do.

01:00:33 You want them to mirror what you're feeling sometimes,

01:00:36 because it makes you feel better.

01:00:38 But also, you want them to acknowledge

01:00:40 that it needs fixing and not that it's OK.

01:00:44 And maybe that's kind of what you're more looking for,

01:00:48 is that kind of vibe of, yeah, this could be bad.

01:00:53 We cannot have games like this.

01:00:55 Instead of, we'll be fine.

01:00:56 We just had an off night.

01:00:57 It's very passive, John.

01:00:58 I don't like the off night stuff,

01:00:59 because the off night is excusing it.

01:01:03 They do these things.

01:01:05 They're the team that goes out there and plays.

01:01:07 And then they'll come out of these games talking like,

01:01:09 oh, you have those nights sometimes.

01:01:10 That stuff just happens.

01:01:11 And it's true.

01:01:13 But you as the coach, you as the stars on the team,

01:01:17 you're supposed to be the ones going out there preventing it

01:01:19 from happening.

01:01:20 We said it last year, all year.

01:01:22 And it drives me crazy, Josue, because I

01:01:24 don't want to see this start happening again.

01:01:27 You have to take care of it now, because when

01:01:31 it happens in the playoffs, all of a sudden,

01:01:33 you're looking left and right.

01:01:34 And guys might get attached.

01:01:36 I feel like we're reliving it a little bit,

01:01:40 because all last year, it was fine.

01:01:44 Who cares?

01:01:45 Move on.

01:01:46 And then when you're down 3-0 against Miami,

01:01:49 oh, we lost our identity.

01:01:52 And oh, we might not be as together as we think here.

01:01:54 We've got to come together.

01:01:55 That can't be the time we come together.

01:01:58 And they tried like hell to do it at that point.

01:02:02 It almost made it happen.

01:02:04 And they lost those three games.

01:02:06 They lost those three games in different ways.

01:02:08 That's why we were kind of like, oh, wait.

01:02:11 This can happen.

01:02:12 Oh, are they down 3-0?

01:02:14 Yeah, all of a sudden.

01:02:16 Yeah, and another fact that last year,

01:02:19 you were super healthy on that run.

01:02:21 So health was an excuse either there.

01:02:23 Health was an excuse tonight.

01:02:24 So the through line, John, is what scares you,

01:02:29 because we've seen this team do it.

01:02:31 It's a different incarnation.

01:02:33 You have more talent.

01:02:34 You have more safety valves in terms

01:02:37 of you might be able to get away with doing certain things just

01:02:41 because you're that good.

01:02:42 And you have other guys that can save you here--

01:02:45 White, Holliday, Porzingis, all the way down the line

01:02:47 to the bench that continues to play really well.

01:02:49 I mean, the bench almost saved them again tonight.

01:02:51 Hauser comes in, ranked 3.

01:02:53 Pritchard had a big shot.

01:02:56 It's all on Brown and Tatum.

01:02:58 And I'm glad to hear Brown take accountability for this one.

01:03:01 But does he mean it?

01:03:03 Tatum, just move on.

01:03:06 Forget Joe.

01:03:07 Joe's going to do what Joe does.

01:03:09 We know it at this point.

01:03:10 I think you look at Tatum after this one,

01:03:12 especially with what he said just right there.

01:03:14 And stop me if you disagree with this,

01:03:16 but we've heard this from him before, right?

01:03:19 Move on.

01:03:21 Yeah, throw it in the trash, on to Memphis.

01:03:24 We know they can beat Memphis.

01:03:26 We know they can beat Atlanta.

01:03:27 We know they can have a good week.

01:03:28 But what are you taking from this one?

01:03:30 Were there any takeaways from this game,

01:03:33 things they got to do better, things they got to work on?

01:03:37 You can just broadly say, oh, we got to go to practice

01:03:41 and tighten some things up here.

01:03:42 But what needs to get better?

01:03:45 Is there any acknowledgment from that tonight?

01:03:50 I don't think anything--

01:03:51 I don't know if there's any acknowledgment.

01:03:53 I do believe it is a bad day at the office.

01:03:55 I do believe it's one that you could easily just say it

01:03:58 happened, and they could go out and win by 70 next game.

01:04:01 And everyone's like, see?

01:04:03 What were we worried about?

01:04:04 And they've done that before.

01:04:05 It's not that.

01:04:06 It's that if this is part of who you are,

01:04:09 and it can come out at any time, it

01:04:11 can come out at the wrong time.

01:04:12 So you want to nip it in the bud,

01:04:14 and you just want to recognize that you can be this way

01:04:17 and that you shouldn't be this way.

01:04:19 And you're supposed to be professionals,

01:04:21 and you had everybody healthy, and you're

01:04:23 playing an undermanned team, and you're not

01:04:25 supposed to play with your food.

01:04:26 And learn from it, and say that, yeah, this

01:04:29 is embarrassing shit.

01:04:31 But I don't know from in terms of the game.

01:04:34 We want to nitpick certain things.

01:04:36 I don't know.

01:04:37 Is there anything about the way they played

01:04:40 outside of the effort and the sloppiness,

01:04:43 particularly with how they started?

01:04:47 What, the way they--

01:04:48 In terms of style?

01:04:48 Look, there's things that--

01:04:50 we can talk about those things.

01:04:51 Look, is it going to be a team that's

01:04:53 too reliant on the three that doesn't get to the free throw

01:04:55 line enough, that doesn't create enough easy backhands, that

01:04:58 doesn't create enough turnovers?

01:05:01 All of those things could kill you in a game, Bobby, right?

01:05:05 But they have so many things that they can beat you with.

01:05:09 I just don't necessarily worry about it.

01:05:11 I'm not going to get too hung up on those aspects.

01:05:15 And no team is perfect.

01:05:16 No team can do everything well all the time.

01:05:19 They do a lot of things well, and they

01:05:21 can defend at a high level, and they can switch,

01:05:23 and they can do a bunch of different things,

01:05:25 and they have multiple guys who can create their own shots.

01:05:28 And that's just something they've never had in the past.

01:05:30 So overall, the good outweighs the bad by miles and miles

01:05:35 and miles.

01:05:36 So I'm not going to nitpick the aspects of their game that

01:05:38 aren't perfect.

01:05:39 It's really more a matter of, when the other team ratchets it

01:05:42 up, are you ready to answer the bell?

01:05:44 And that's why I keep saying--

01:05:45 I guess it's more of a mentality thing, right?

01:05:47 And it's a mentality.

01:05:48 Yeah, I mean, you gave up.

01:05:50 Joe adjusts to things when things--

01:05:52 in series, when things change, when teams

01:05:54 don't do the same thing every night,

01:05:56 when you're getting their best effort,

01:05:57 when you have good coaches on the other side watching what

01:06:00 you're doing, game planning, and completely changing,

01:06:02 flipping the script on you.

01:06:03 Are you able to figure that out as well?

01:06:06 Spolster was just toying with Mazzulla in the first three

01:06:08 games of the year.

01:06:10 They're like, oh my god, the zone.

01:06:11 He's going to kill us with that, and then he

01:06:13 plays an entire game without going to zone once.

01:06:16 Stuff like that.

01:06:17 So I don't know.

01:06:18 I mean, those are the unknowns.

01:06:20 How's Joe going to react?

01:06:21 How are the Jays going to react?

01:06:22 It's the same thing.

01:06:23 They're just better equipped to handle it this year.

01:06:26 Yeah, but why is that, though?

01:06:28 I mean, you have two guys you didn't

01:06:29 have last year that changed the dynamic of your team.

01:06:32 Use them.

01:06:33 I just want to see that utilized more often,

01:06:35 especially in Fort Zingas.

01:06:37 And you do wonder from Zimay if he'd kick him in the ass,

01:06:40 right, Joe Sway, and just be like, just play defense.

01:06:42 I don't think there's any doubt.

01:06:45 Anyway, go ahead, Joe.

01:06:46 Especially a game like this.

01:06:48 Yeah, that's a really good point.

01:06:49 So yeah, I mean, I just think that's

01:06:51 something that is part of the players knowing what's

01:06:54 best for themselves down the stretch in the fourth quarter.

01:06:57 Let's face it, they're the ones that

01:06:59 have to rely on that muscle memory

01:07:01 to make the right decisions.

01:07:02 But it's also got to be a little bit of the coaches, right?

01:07:04 You got to set these guys up.

01:07:06 And I just think offensively, outside of that drive

01:07:09 from Tatum down the stretch in that fourth quarter,

01:07:11 I just didn't see a whole lot of plays being set up.

01:07:13 I feel like they're just freestyling out there.

01:07:15 And that's good in some of the time.

01:07:18 We've seen these guys pull it off, especially in a big way.

01:07:21 I mean, look, big picture wise, they still

01:07:23 have the best record in the NBA.

01:07:25 And clearly, one of the more dominant teams in the NBA.

01:07:27 However, when they're not playing

01:07:30 that way in that fourth quarter, and it

01:07:32 seems like they're just struggling to make a play,

01:07:35 it worries me.

01:07:36 It does.

01:07:36 It generally does, because I don't think--

01:07:38 or at least I haven't seen a lot of the times in those moments

01:07:43 where Joe Mazzullo draws a quick play for what this team really

01:07:46 needs, out of the timeout plays.

01:07:48 He's just not that type of coach.

01:07:50 Yeah, and you talk about--

01:07:52 He hasn't been that.

01:07:53 You talk about him trying to set them up with that approach

01:07:56 to be able to be a little bit more random and creative

01:08:00 and self-sufficient in the playoffs, right?

01:08:03 It can't be a parade of timeouts saving them in a playoff game.

01:08:06 So you understand that mindset.

01:08:08 But on the other hand, there might

01:08:09 be a situation that calls for a heavier hand from the sideline.

01:08:12 And that's been me and your biggest issue with him

01:08:15 all along, John, is that he won't put his imprint on plays

01:08:20 enough, at least moments where things are kind of spiraling,

01:08:24 to add a little bit of structure,

01:08:25 to maybe run a play in a non-conventional way,

01:08:30 to get a guy involved that might throw the defense off.

01:08:34 And again, I want to go back and watch a lot of this game,

01:08:36 because I feel like I didn't get a great feel for it

01:08:39 in the moment here in terms of what went wrong offensively.

01:08:42 But I agree with Joe Sway there.

01:08:43 It seemed to be a structured thing.

01:08:45 They seemed a little rattled as they

01:08:47 fell behind by double digits, particularly

01:08:49 right after halftime, to where they're missing shots inside.

01:08:53 They're not getting clean looks at the basket.

01:08:55 Things are a little crowded in there.

01:08:57 That is the one thing I think Joe acknowledges

01:08:59 a lot after some of their worst nights,

01:09:01 is the spacing wasn't there, and guys

01:09:04 weren't in the right positions in terms

01:09:06 of freeing up that rent lane.

01:09:08 Because they had a pretty good third quarter, John.

01:09:11 They won it.

01:09:12 They got better shots.

01:09:13 Tatum got going.

01:09:15 But I think they missed six shots in the paint.

01:09:18 And almost all of them turned into points the other way.

01:09:21 All of them probably could have been cleaner looks in there.

01:09:24 And that's still a philosophical debate here with Joe,

01:09:29 is I think that's what makes him nervous.

01:09:31 They'll get there.

01:09:32 There'll be maybe a 50-50 shot at the rim.

01:09:35 And if you miss it, boom, you're dead the other way.

01:09:38 And that showed itself tonight.

01:09:40 Does that make them a little more hesitant

01:09:43 to go there more often?

01:09:45 You wouldn't like to see that, because I do

01:09:47 think it's an element they need--

01:09:49 more rim looks, more free throws,

01:09:51 which I think are directly correlated with that.

01:09:55 So some of it's basketball.

01:09:58 Some of it's mentality.

01:09:59 I think more of it's mentality, John,

01:10:01 because it's the situations they're in--

01:10:03 crunch time, big deficit, a game where your opponent's

01:10:08 missing its best players that rattle them.

01:10:10 It's not the talent on the other side,

01:10:12 or a star on the other side, or anything any other coach

01:10:17 is doing out there.

01:10:18 I think they're pretty sound in their X's and O's, as much

01:10:21 as a few of the points there might frustrate us.

01:10:24 So it's a mentality thing.

01:10:26 This game was clearly a mentality loss.

01:10:29 And do they have the championship mentality?

01:10:32 Because we know they have the championship roster.

01:10:34 There's no doubt about it.

01:10:36 And we're all sitting here saying they're

01:10:38 going to do it this year.

01:10:40 Sat there at times last year saying they're

01:10:42 going to do it this year.

01:10:43 So they've had the rosters.

01:10:44 It's been the mentality thing that

01:10:46 prevents them from doing that.

01:10:48 So it's tough to measure.

01:10:50 It's tough to quantify.

01:10:51 Especially with this team, it's tough to get

01:10:53 them to talk about it.

01:10:54 So I think we're all just kind of sitting here

01:10:56 in the dark waiting for those big games in the playoffs

01:10:58 and seeing if it's going to rear its head.

01:11:01 Before we wrap, here's Jason Tate.

01:11:02 I'm talking about it.

01:11:03 Like you said, we've got a couple of days of practice

01:11:05 and look over things that we can do better.

01:11:10 Today, Thursday, it's just a bad week at work.

01:11:15 Everybody ain't got a job.

01:11:18 Nobody has great days every day.

01:11:21 And we're no different.

01:11:23 This is our job.

01:11:25 We would love to be perfect.

01:11:26 We would love to win every game and make every shot.

01:11:28 But it's just not the case.

01:11:30 But we got to be better and look ourselves in the mirror.

01:11:34 And that's what we're going to do.

01:11:35 Don't we all, Jason?

01:11:40 Bad day, but that was electric.

01:11:41 Anyway, we're going to--

01:11:44 It's funny, too, because--

01:11:46 That was the biggest quote of the whole thing.

01:11:48 That's why I did it.

01:11:49 Guy just makes me want to run through a wall.

01:11:51 Anyway.

01:11:51 So maybe they're right, because we saw it.

01:11:54 We saw it in this game.

01:11:56 That's the type of motivation you need during a game, though.

01:11:59 I don't want to see you out there being like,

01:12:01 this guy needs to do this.

01:12:02 No, no, I want to see it during a game.

01:12:03 Because then, in that moment, I think

01:12:06 you get a response from your teammates, I think.

01:12:07 I'm pretty sure.

01:12:08 And they did it tonight, right?

01:12:09 If it's Tatum doing it.

01:12:11 It didn't work.

01:12:12 It didn't work, but they did it tonight.

01:12:14 And you say it all the time, John.

01:12:15 Who cares what they're saying after the game?

01:12:17 It's a lot of lip service.

01:12:18 We saw them actually go out there

01:12:20 and try to rile each other up and fire each other up

01:12:24 and get a response in terms of benching and all that.

01:12:26 And that's pretty rare from this group.

01:12:27 So is that a step in the right direction?

01:12:29 Do those things fire them up and put them

01:12:31 on a little bit of a run here?

01:12:32 Do the practices, as they say, help here,

01:12:34 tightening things up?

01:12:36 We're going to see that this week.

01:12:37 And certainly, it's a good opportunity

01:12:38 to do so against three really bad teams.

01:12:40 And it does remind me, John, that Memphis game--

01:12:43 obviously, Memphis coming up on Sunday.

01:12:44 The one in Memphis was a good example of, wow,

01:12:48 you were just horrible in this game, and you got away with it.

01:12:51 So we'll see if that happens again.

01:12:53 We'll see if it happens again.

01:12:55 We've got a couple days off, and we're back on Sunday, right?

01:12:59 Sunday at 6.

01:13:00 Sunday at 6.

01:13:02 Marcus video tribute night.

01:13:05 And that's about it, right?

01:13:07 Maybe an L. Who knows?

01:13:08 We'll see.

01:13:10 Yeah.

01:13:11 We don't want to build bad habits.

01:13:12 You've built them.

01:13:13 You don't want to get back into them, right?

01:13:16 You don't want to--

01:13:18 you've had them.

01:13:18 It's OK.

01:13:19 It's OK.

01:13:20 It's OK.

01:13:20 We all have bad habits.

01:13:22 They've been in the bag.

01:13:23 They're built. They're fully built. They're built.

01:13:26 But again, they have avoided them

01:13:30 for the better part of this year.

01:13:31 But as Fuzzy put in the comments,

01:13:33 and other people have also said, you've

01:13:36 gotten away with some stuff because you

01:13:38 are so talented, and you're not going to get away with it.

01:13:40 Yeah, they've minimized them.

01:13:41 They've minimized them.

01:13:41 You're not going to get away with it in the playoffs,

01:13:42 and I think that's fair.

01:13:43 But anyway, thank you guys for hanging out.

01:13:45 It was fun.

01:13:47 And yeah, I know.

01:13:48 It was a hate show, but we're not really hating.

01:13:52 Like I said, it's the concern cake.

01:13:53 It's a concern show.

01:13:56 You want to make sure that they're OK,

01:13:59 and there's nothing to be super concerned about.

01:14:01 Almost every single game like this you're going to ask,

01:14:06 does it matter?

01:14:06 How much does it matter?

01:14:07 And that's kind of what we're trying to figure it all out.

01:14:10 So again, thank you guys for hanging.

01:14:12 Thanks, Bobby.

01:14:13 Thanks, Josue.

01:14:14 Check out our Celtics YouTube channel.

01:14:17 Subscribe, like it, share it, do all that good stuff.

01:14:20 Check us out.

01:14:21 We do appreciate you guys hanging with us every night.

01:14:23 We will see you.

01:14:25 I appreciate that.

01:14:26 We will see you guys on Saturday?

01:14:30 Sunday.

01:14:31 Sunday.

01:14:31 Sunday, sorry.

01:14:32 I just said it.

01:14:33 But I'm looking for the outro, and I'm

01:14:35 trying to wrap the show.

01:14:35 We'll see you guys Sunday.

01:14:37 Wait, Ahmed's got an outro for us, I think.

01:14:39 No, he doesn't.

01:14:40 He said he was going to work on an outro.

01:14:41 Man, he had a phenomenal game.

01:14:44 Phenomenal game.

01:14:47 Poor for dough.

01:14:48 I think it's an awesome.

01:14:49 That did not sound like a chair.

01:14:55 It was a freaking chair.

01:14:56 It does sound like a chair.

01:14:58 [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:15:02 (upbeat music)

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