Journalists ask¨ bring a special interview with Delcy Rodriguez,
Vice-President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela on defense of the Guyana EsSequiva. teleSUR
Vice-President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela on defense of the Guyana EsSequiva. teleSUR
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00:00 Greetings to all Latin Americans in the world.
00:19 I'm Luis Guillermo Garcia Bencamo, and this is a special tele-surf program.
00:23 I'm accompanied by Madeline Garcia, our correspondent in Venezuela.
00:28 Because the topic has to do precisely with this.
00:31 She and six other journalists will be joining us today to address a very sensitive issue.
00:36 It is about the territorial dispute between Venezuela and Guyana over the territory of
00:42 the Guyana sequiba, considered by the Venezuelan state as the most important, longest-lasting,
00:46 and most difficult to resolve territorial policy issue in the entire diplomatic history
00:51 of Venezuela's republic.
00:52 Madeline?
00:53 Well, that's right.
00:54 For Venezuelans, it is a matter of honor.
00:56 It is a sensitive matter.
00:58 It is a matter of patriotism.
01:00 And all of those who were born 124 years ago know that I'm old, but for five generations
01:06 now we have heard about the territory of the Guyana sequiba.
01:10 It is even drawn on the map as an area under claim.
01:14 Venezuela denounces it as a dispossession by the United Kingdom that was consummated
01:18 by Luis Guillermo in 1899, when the well-known Paris Arbitral Award was signed under the
01:25 seat, the threat of the use of force and the manipulation of border lines to dispossess
01:32 Venezuela with the stroke of a pen of the Guyana sequiba, which represents, imagine,
01:37 one-seventh of its territory.
01:40 That is to say, it is as big as the country of Kuwait, which measures approximately 159,000
01:46 kilometers.
01:47 That is to say, that area, which is Venezuela's or which Venezuela claims it as its own, measures
01:53 this and also has great natural resources.
01:57 And that's the genesis of the situation, because the heart of the matter, as we say
02:00 here, is geopolitics and economics.
02:02 Well, and to tell you about that, a subject of such density, such transcendence, we have
02:08 a special guest, but we leave it to this image to show it.
02:15 Delcy Rodríguez, Executive Vice President of Venezuela, lawyer, Ph.D. thesis candidate
02:23 in social law, Minister of People's Power for Foreign Affairs, President of the National
02:28 Constituent Assembly of Venezuela, Executive Vice President of Venezuela since 2018 to
02:35 date, and President of the Special Commission in Defense of the Esequibo.
02:44 Well, Luis Guillermo, after knowing who our special guest is, the Vice President of the
02:50 Republic, Delcy Rodríguez, we have to put in context what you are watching us on Telesur
02:55 broadcasting screen and also on our platform.
03:00 So let's see the following report.
03:05 Venezuelan maps delimit the geographical area of the Esequibo between the Esequibo River
03:09 and the line of the 1899 Arbitral Award declared new world and void by Venezuela.
03:16 The name Guayana means "land of word" because it is a territory of 159,542 square kilometers
03:23 that is part of the Taico de Orinoco system to the Guainia or Guaini River and even to
03:29 the Moruga River, which although it flows into the Atlantic, it is intercommunicated
03:34 by the Moorahuana Channel with the Guainia and Barima Rivers.
03:38 This characteristic gives peculiar fertility to the Guayana Esequibo in its younger formation,
03:43 with mountains, mineral resources, biodiversity and fauna with more than 25 endemic species.
03:52 The Quillatero Waterfalls are one of the most important natural attractions, with a waterfall
03:56 of 227 meters high.
04:00 In 2015, the government of Guyana arbitrarily authorized ExxonMobil to explore in under
04:05 my kiddie waters after announcing the discovery of an oil field in the waters of the Caribbean
04:11 coast.
04:12 Well, welcome, Vice President.
04:13 Welcome, thank you.
04:14 Well, precisely the first question has to be for everyone who is wondering what is the
04:24 truth of the situation of the territory of Esequibo, Guyana.
04:28 Well, we Venezuelans say that it is Venezuelan.
04:32 What is the truth of this?
04:33 Look, the truth is that Venezuela was stripped of an important extension of its territory.
04:40 When you analyze, well, and yesterday President Nicolás Maduro gave an extraordinary lecture
04:46 on the period of formation of the territory from the colony to independence.
04:52 Well, we were born with this territory.
04:55 Even in the formation as General Capitancy, the territory was part of Venezuela.
05:01 It is Venezuela.
05:03 And in our independence, we consolidated that territory.
05:06 Then, as you will know, a territory very rich in minerals, mainly gold.
05:12 Immediately afterwards, the British crown is informed of the immense natural resources
05:19 in gold by explorers.
05:21 Let's remember the Prussian Shomal, who is one of the ones who begins to manipulate the
05:26 maps in some way.
05:28 He did those lines.
05:29 He did those lines, and also English traders who were in the region illegally exploiting
05:34 gold.
05:38 The British crown set itself the objective of appropriating the territory, a territory
05:44 that never belonged to them, never.
05:47 Because even when the Treaty of Tordesillas was signed between Portugal and Spain, Spain
05:53 kept that territory.
05:55 In the line that is fixed in the treaty, the territory remains.
05:59 So when you realize how the process of misappropriation of the territory took place, it is very clear,
06:07 it is very evident that the territory was stolen from Venezuela.
06:12 And then, well, I am going to try to synthesize decades, decades, centuries of history.
06:19 Then it is handed over to Guyana at the moment of its independence.
06:24 Guyana inherited that territory, but it inherited in an illicit way.
06:28 It has inherited something that had been stolen.
06:32 They never, neither the United Kingdom nor Guyana, have ever had the title of the territory.
06:38 They never had it, never.
06:41 Something that Venezuela has been able to demonstrate, its titles, its rights, well,
06:45 everything that was the possession of the territory.
06:48 And what does Guyana argue?
06:50 No, Guyana intends to validate the fraud that was consummated in the Paris Arbitral Award
06:56 of 1899.
06:58 It intends to validate it as a title.
07:00 But it is unheard of that a fraud can generate rights.
07:04 That is unheard of in the legal world, in the world of international law.
07:08 A fraud cannot generate rights.
07:11 So Guyana's pretensions are really barbaric.
07:13 They are rude, they are inexplicable, and the most recent one is the violation that
07:21 they are doing in the sea.
07:23 It is the most recent scandal that they have ever made.
07:28 We have spoken with leaders, authorities from the whole Caribbean.
07:32 They are arranging, giving concessions of a sea that is pending to be delimited because
07:37 that sea has not yet been delimited between Venezuela and Guyana, which is what would
07:44 correspond once the land dispute is solved.
07:46 I am referring to the terrestrial territory, and that is what the 1966 Geneva Agreement
07:54 is for.
07:56 If there was so much certainty about the award, the 1966 Geneva Agreement would not exist.
08:02 This is in the year 1962 when the foreign minister at the time, Falcón Briseño, said
08:07 in the Fourth Commission of the United Nations that a fraud was committed against Venezuela,
08:12 a fraud in an arbitral sentence where Venezuela did not participate.
08:16 You know that in the arbitral tribunal was formed by two Englishmen, two US citizens,
08:23 and a representative of the czarist Russia.
08:27 Venezuela never participated in the sentence.
08:30 It did not either participate in the Washington Treaty of 1897, which was the real political
08:36 agreement as the president explained very well.
08:40 It was a political agreement between the United States and the Kingdom of Great Britain to
08:44 take the territory away from Venezuela.
08:47 If you will, it was the first Monroeist consensus.
08:51 Next December 2nd, one day before our consultative referendum, the 200th anniversary of the Monroe
08:57 Doctrine.
08:58 Well, dispossessing Venezuela, stealing Venezuela's territory was the first Monroeist consensus
09:04 with the British Crown.
09:06 And why didn't Venezuela participate there?
09:09 Venezuela remembers that it was living an internal situation of great weakness as a
09:15 result of internal struggles.
09:18 Venezuela was really going through a process of vulnerability and asked for the support
09:22 from the international community.
09:25 But that is where the empires found the best moment to seize the territory.
09:31 One century later, in 2015, the Obama decree institutionalizes one of the most aggressive
09:39 periods against our republic that our republican history has known, the illegitimate illegal
09:47 blockade against Venezuela to recreate situations of internal weakness.
09:53 Because that same year is when the ExxonMobil announced a world-famous oil discovery in
09:59 the disputed territory.
10:03 I was going to ask you about that.
10:05 I wanted to know if after finding this, this made Guyana change its attitude against Venezuela.
10:12 Completely.
10:14 In 2014, we were living a process of good offices and the good officiant dies.
10:20 Venezuela addressed the Secretary General of the United Nations in 2015 with express
10:25 letters both from President Nicolás Maduro and at the time from the foreign ministry
10:31 asking him to resume the good offices.
10:33 And Guyana at that time said no.
10:38 No more good offices.
10:39 Curiously, coinciding with the ExxonMobil discovery.
10:44 And here comes this whole process that Venezuela has led with much wisdom, with much patience,
10:51 insisting that the Geneva Agreement is the only instrument that will allow for a practical
10:56 solution as the nature of the agreement states.
11:00 Practical and satisfactory for both parties.
11:05 Practical and satisfactory for both parties, not for one party.
11:09 That is why the nature and the legal object of the Geneva Agreement is contradictory with
11:14 a sentence of the International Court of Justice, because the International Court of Justice
11:19 will not give a practical and satisfactory solution for both parties.
11:24 We're going to address this issue later on because we have several questions.
11:28 And as we said at the beginning, there are other journalists in the world who, as we
11:31 are talking about a while ago, some of them do not know very well what is happening.
11:36 And that is why it is so significant that we see the other journalists think on behalf
11:41 of their people about the reality of Venezuela and Ezequiel Guayana.
11:45 We have, for example, Victor Hugo Morales, you know, the Uruguayan journalist who lives
11:51 in Argentina, a great soccer expert and a friend of ours who is a journalist who will
11:57 ask you a question from there.
12:03 The fact that there is a history of Great Britain behind Guayana determines that this
12:07 involvement still exists.
12:11 And therefore, the one being discussed is not only the one who represents Guayana's
12:15 political interest, but other interests are represented at the same time.
12:21 Hello, Victor Hugo.
12:24 Well, in fact, we have always reviewed it, haven't we?
12:28 Great Britain, the United Kingdom, an empire at that time, was the greatest spoiler and
12:34 plunderer of territory all over the planet.
12:37 The case of Malvinas, the Palestine case, which is very similar, how 18 years after
12:46 the fraudulent award of 1899 in the case of Venezuela, the Balfour Declaration was issued
12:57 where Great Britain handed over the territory of Palestine to Israel.
13:02 And you can see how the territorial dispossession of Palestine has been progressing, very similar
13:08 to the processes that took place in the Ezequiel territory in the Malvinas case and other territories
13:14 in the world where the United Kingdom dispossesses territory and gave it to those who did not
13:20 belong.
13:21 It is a doctrine, a doctrine that continues to be in contention today because you realize
13:26 the interest of the United States in this territory that is in controversy and in the
13:32 sea that is pending the limitation.
13:34 You realize the interest there are those of the United States.
13:38 And you know that in the Washington Treaty of 1897, which was the great political consensus
13:44 to dispose of Venezuela and which was consummated in the fraudulent award of 1899, implies that
13:50 this territory is given to the United States by the Crown.
13:54 They say, "We give it to you," as happens with the energy interests that are present
13:59 primarily in the territory in controversy, as well as in the sea to be delimited.
14:06 They are U.S. interests and are primarily Western interests.
14:11 So we are really in the presence of a global war for energy resources.
14:19 There are people who consider that the International Court of Justice is the highest.
14:25 That is, before heaven there is an international court.
14:28 For some, however, Venezuela considers that the International Court of Justice has no
14:33 competence.
14:34 They say it has no jurisdictions in this field.
14:39 Even the government has said so.
14:41 So one wonders why Venezuela keeps going to the International Court.
14:46 Since the foundation of the International Court of Justice, the position of Venezuela
14:50 has been very clear as to not recognize the compulsory jurisdiction of the court.
14:56 Only 70 countries in the world recognize the compulsory jurisdiction.
15:00 That is to say, they recognize the automatic jurisdiction of the International Court of
15:05 Justice to settle matters of international interest.
15:08 In this case, Venezuela has never recognized the compulsory jurisdiction and it has not
15:14 recognized it precisely because we had the precedent of the fraudulent award of 1899
15:19 and this controversy.
15:21 The only way that Venezuela could attend the court is when it manifests its will to attend
15:27 the court.
15:28 The Geneva Agreement is also very important because the Geneva Agreement assumes that
15:33 both parties must agree on the means of settlement of the dispute.
15:39 Both parties must agree on it.
15:43 So much so that every time a good officiant was to be appointed, both Guyana and Venezuela
15:49 had to express its willingness to agree.
15:52 And the last event, which was under the current Secretary General of the United Nations, Antonio
15:58 Guterres, is that the personal representative that he appoints before raising the matter
16:04 to the International Court in violation of the Geneva Agreement was appointed with the
16:10 consent and the manifestation of will of both parties.
16:14 Venezuela cannot be obliged to a means of solution that it has not given its manifestation
16:19 of will.
16:20 So, this is an issue that is a historical position in not recognizing the compulsory
16:26 jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice and that is why it is part of one
16:32 of the questions of the referendum.
16:33 Vice President, you just mentioned that there are interests behind it.
16:38 There is ExxonMobil now and it would seem that Guyana is continuing the history of dispossession
16:43 of the territorial that the United Kingdom started.
16:47 In Georgetown, we recently saw a photo of President Irfan Ali in the area that Venezuela
16:53 claims as its own and it is very close to the limit or the de facto line because it
17:02 cannot be called a borderline because it is a territory that is not established as such.
17:07 And we saw him dressed as a military man.
17:10 Meanwhile, here in Venezuela, we saw the Minister of Defense dressed as a military man because
17:16 he is in the Minister of Defense but with a leaflet of the consultative referendum in
17:21 his hand, the complete map.
17:24 What is the reading between one and the other?
17:27 You have said that Guyana has been escalating its aggression.
17:31 They have tried to generate a matrix that Venezuela or a narrative that Venezuela is
17:36 a big, powerful country with great resources that is attacking Guyana.
17:41 You know very well that it is very clear to the world who is the victim here in the sense
17:46 that Venezuela has been a victim, hasn't it, of the government of the United States
17:50 directly in 2015 as well as Obama's administration.
17:53 First of the British Empire.
17:54 Exactly.
17:55 But in 2015, there is a decree that lays the foundation for the criminal and legitimate
18:03 blocade against Venezuela.
18:08 You also see a process of Guyana where their leaders begin to have very aggressive attitudes
18:13 towards Venezuela.
18:15 We cannot forget that Grant Rancher in 2015, one of the most anti-Venezuelan presidents
18:22 Guyana has ever had, even declared that Simon Bolivar is the thorn in Guyana's throat.
18:32 And there, these authorities become principles of ExxonMobil.
18:37 When they decide to go to court, it is because the ExxonMobil orders them to go to court.
18:43 Let us not forget that the ExxonMobil has paid the lawyers for the defense of Guyana
18:47 in the International Court of Justice.
18:49 When we were there, precisely because there was a hearing, well, they arrived there in
18:55 ExxonMobil airplanes paid by ExxonMobil.
18:59 There is an instrumentalization of Guyana by ExxonMobil and its authorities are working
19:04 as ExxonMobil employees.
19:07 This decision of both the president of Guyana and its parliament not to go to negotiations,
19:13 not to engage in dialogue, is part of a provocation script against Venezuela, what we have called
19:22 the drums of war.
19:24 And our Minister of Defense, as you have rightly said, has come out in promoting the consultative
19:30 referendum to the Venezuelan people.
19:33 That is a constitutional right of our constitutional order, where Venezuelans have the right to
19:39 be consulted on essential matters of national life.
19:42 Just about that, and I come back again to the International Court of Justice, not because
19:47 I'm personally very interested in it, but as the Act 1 has put one's court on the table
19:53 as well.
19:54 Well, recently Guyana went again to the International Court of Justice, as it is trying to pigeonhole
20:00 us there, asking that this instance should disregard the consultative referendum of December
20:07 3rd.
20:08 And at the same time, Luis Almagro, the ineffable, as some call him, Secretary General of the
20:15 Organization of the American State, allied himself with the Guyana position.
20:21 He criticized the referendum and asked Venezuela to respect Guyana's decision to the court.
20:31 This request for provisional measures to stop the consultative referendum in Venezuela is
20:36 one of the most tremendous cries of desperation we have seen from Guyana.
20:42 Really desperate, because there is no basis for the International Court of Justice to
20:45 interfere in the internal affairs of Venezuela, of the internal order of Venezuela, the constitutional
20:51 order of Venezuela.
20:53 They were really showing a lot of desperation by pretending that the court can stop a consultative
20:59 referendum, where the Venezuelan Parliament, the Venezuelan National Assembly decided,
21:05 unanimously approved, to call and consult our people.
21:10 And well, then they went to the electoral power and set a date for December 3rd for
21:15 our people to be consulted.
21:17 How can an International Court of Justice come to stop a consultative referendum in
21:21 Venezuela?
21:23 This really has no legal or juridical basis whatsoever.
21:27 It is only demonstrating not only Guyana's desperation, but also that Guyana has become
21:32 a true colonialist conclave, an imperialist conclave of those who are its allies.
21:39 Who are Guyana's allies?
21:41 Because they claim to be a victim, but who are Guyana's allies?
21:45 With whom does Guyana carry out joint military exercises in this region, threatening Venezuela?
21:51 Nothing more and less than the United States Southern Command, who supports Guyana.
21:56 Where did they go to ask for the consultative referendum to be stopped?
22:01 To the Organization of American States, of which Venezuela does not belong because it
22:05 has a terrible record of coup d'etats, assassinations, invasions in Latin America and the Caribbean.
22:10 Those are Guyana's friends.
22:11 The great powers of Guyana's friends, and they threaten Venezuela because every time
22:15 they carry out a joint military exercise with the Southern Command and the Pentagon, what
22:20 they want to say is Venezuela.
22:22 In other words, they're doing an open threat against Venezuela.
22:26 Their partnership, I have said, their partnership is to attack Venezuela between the United
22:31 States and Guyana.
22:32 Vice President, if we look at the timeline of the year 2015, when Barack Obama signs
22:38 the decree indicating Venezuela as an unusual threat to the security of the United States,
22:43 months later this thing happens, the famous ExxonMobil announcement, and then the whole
22:48 aggression escalates.
22:49 Do you think that this could be linked?
22:52 Sure, it's concatenated, Madeleine.
22:55 It is the fifth period that the President has called a conspiracy against Venezuela.
23:01 They try to recreate a situation of internal weakness with the criminal blockade against
23:06 our country, the economic blockade.
23:08 The Venezuelan people gave convincing signs in the Union Nacional.
23:13 We have been victoriously overcoming the worst difficulties of our republic as ever known.
23:19 They wanted to recreate the same conditions of 1899.
23:23 And then, as I have said, they try to validate as a title of possession of that territory
23:28 because they have a precarious possession of that territory.
23:31 They tried to validate a title by giving it to a fraud.
23:37 That is absolutely null and void.
23:40 It does not exist.
23:41 Fraud cannot have any legal effect on any situation, much less on this.
23:47 And that is also why in the 1966 Geneva Agreement exists, because it was assumed that there
23:53 was a claim on that.
23:54 If it had not been assumed that there was a claim, there was a problem with that fraud.
24:00 That award had to be a product of the political convenience between the United States and
24:06 the United Kingdom.
24:07 The Geneva Agreement would not exist, but they intend to kill, to assassinate.
24:11 But the Geneva Agreement says that it is enforced until it is a practical and satisfactory solution
24:16 for both parties on that territorial dispute.
24:19 Yes, by the way, Guyana says that this dialogue from Venezuela was already very annoying,
24:25 and therefore he is not going to be good officials.
24:29 But from Argentina we are going now to Cuba from another journalist colleague from Radio
24:34 Rebelde from Cuba, Ana Teresa Badia.
24:36 Let's listen to her.
24:37 Greetings.
24:38 This is Ana Teresa Badia from Radio Rebelde in Havana.
24:45 The first thing I wanted to ask you is what is related to the reasons of legislative constitutionality
24:52 that Venezuela has for this referendum on December 3rd in the midst of accusations of
24:59 alleged illegitimacy.
25:01 Also when analyzing Venezuelan politics, in recent times we noticed that both the government
25:08 and some sectors of the opposition have condemned during the last hours the position of the
25:14 Organization of American States in relation to the issue.
25:19 How do you interpret this position and this action?
25:24 Thank you very much, Ana Teresa.
25:27 You know very well that this is a national issue, not an issue of the Bolivarian government
25:31 of Venezuela.
25:32 The nation-state.
25:33 The state of the nation.
25:37 We're also in the Barbados Agreement.
25:39 It is stated that all political factors or opposition government assume this issue as
25:45 a single issue of national unity, which is the defense of the territory of the Guayana
25:50 Ezequiel.
25:53 And there is a national consensus and the whole country, and therefore the importance
25:58 and relevance of the referendum this December 3rd.
26:01 The whole country is focused on this situation.
26:04 And people from the opposition who have spoken in favor?
26:07 It's a cause, a common cause.
26:09 It is a common cause, of course.
26:11 With the opposition, we saw the statements of Gerardo Bley, for example, about the declarations
26:17 of the ill-fated Almagro.
26:19 Really a shame because Luis Almagro never stops making a fool of himself.
26:28 Let's say that he never misses an opportunity to show ignorance because he completely ignores
26:34 the history of our Latin America and the Caribbean.
26:38 He does not know it, and every time he speaks, he shows it.
26:41 But he does not only not miss an opportunity to show his ignorance, but he also does not
26:46 miss an opportunity to tell his masters to the government of the United States and Washington,
26:50 "Look, here I am.
26:51 I'm a good employee."
26:52 As I'm told once again at the OAS, he is the number one employee of the month because he's
27:00 always looking to please their masters.
27:03 Let's listen to another question.
27:07 I leave that concern there because there is another question from Gerardo Vilhamil, who
27:12 is a Mexican journalist.
27:13 By the way, he's the president of the Republic Broadcasting System of the Mexican state.
27:19 Vice President, here in Mexico, we value and support all popular consultations and mechanisms
27:28 of direct democracy to support decisions as important as the cancellation of an airport
27:34 project.
27:35 In the case of Mexico or in the case of Venezuela, this dispute with Guyana, which, well, has
27:45 gained Latin American and international relevance.
27:50 My question is, from your point of view, how will the consultation to be held next December
27:56 3 reinforce Venezuela's position in favor of maintaining the mediation of the United
28:03 Nations in this conflict where there are evidently the interests of powerful transnational companies
28:12 in the oil sector?
28:14 I would also like you to tell us, what can the Mexican state do to reinforce the sovereignty
28:23 and dignity of Venezuela in this case?
28:27 Thank you, Gerardo.
28:29 This also brings us to a question that Ana Teresa had made and we didn't answer about
28:37 the constitutional basis for consultation.
28:39 Well, our consultation is very clear.
28:42 Sovereignty resides in the people and the people also have the right.
28:46 This is found in Article 71 of our constitution.
28:49 The people have the right to participate in a consultative referendum to address essential
28:53 issues of national life.
28:56 And here we are talking about the territorial integrity of Venezuela.
29:00 We are not talking about just anything.
29:02 It is the territorial integrity that is being consulted with the Venezuelan people.
29:06 What results from this consultation will be a mandate for the Venezuelan state.
29:11 What results from the consultation will be a mandate for the Bolivarian National Armed
29:14 Corps system, will be a mandate for all the institutions of the Venezuelan state.
29:19 It is a referendum to consult the Venezuelan people to see what the Venezuelan people think
29:24 about these five questions.
29:26 And then when Genaro says, ask what Mexico can do, we have to add voices to defend our
29:32 Latin America and the Caribbean as a territory of peace because there is really a threat
29:38 from powerful transnationals, from the government of the United States, from Guyana.
29:45 We're threatening.
29:46 It is not Venezuela who is threatening.
29:49 There is a lot of money behind Guyana's campaign claiming to be innocents, victims, but their
29:55 friends are the ones threatening other nations in the world.
29:58 They are not the victims of the world.
30:01 Their friends are not the people being massacred.
30:03 And I am referring to both of them.
30:04 I'm referring to the Ex-Immova, which pays for the defense before the International Court
30:10 of Justice.
30:11 I am referring to the Pentagon and the Southern Command, which carries military exercises
30:16 against Venezuela together with Guyana.
30:18 It is an imperialist position.
30:19 It replicates those colonialist methods against Venezuela, threatening this region.
30:24 So the call is for our region, the countries of our region, to raise their voices and ask
30:32 for a negotiated solution.
30:34 It is very serious that Guyana says it is not going to talk.
30:39 It is very serious that Guyana says that it's not going to negotiate.
30:42 What is Guyana thinking?
30:44 What is Guyana thinking?
30:46 When they know very well that the International Court of Justice, the unilateral claim they
30:50 presented is contrary to Venezuela in the legal way that denies the expressions of Venezuela's
30:56 will.
31:01 They went without having Venezuela's consent and they should have had Venezuela's consent
31:06 because that is what's stated in the Geneva's agreement.
31:09 Vice President, excuse me, negotiating applies to condemning, for example?
31:13 Their proposals, their proposal.
31:16 What scenarios?
31:17 These are proposals that were even presented at the time of the negotiations with Guyana,
31:23 but the question behind this is who benefits from the exploitation of these natural resources?
31:31 When you analyze the data in Guyana, they begin to have revenues from oil production
31:39 and exploitation from 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023.
31:48 The social impact that these revenues have had has been zero in the social indicators
31:54 of Guyana.
31:55 This was shown in the equality indicators, in human development indicators.
32:02 They are the same as in 2015 and especially in the provinces in the hinterland of Guyana,
32:08 extreme poverty is rampant.
32:11 There you realize, and we have shown it, that Guyana's oil tax regime is to benefit the
32:17 big transnationals.
32:19 Two-thirds of the revenues go to the big transnationals.
32:23 There when you compare the oil tax regime of Guyana and Venezuela, Venezuela's oil
32:29 tax regime is much more noble for our people in terms of benefits than what Guyana has.
32:36 A concrete example, royalties paid to Guyana, 1 or 2 percent, royalties to Venezuela, 30
32:43 percent.
32:44 There is a clear difference.
32:48 For whom is Guyana exploding?
32:49 Why is Guyana going to a confrontation threatening Venezuela with the United States?
32:55 Is it for its people?
32:56 No.
32:57 When you talk about condominium, I was telling you that there are proposals that have come
33:02 up at different moments of the negotiation, but Guyana has already been very clear about
33:07 its objective.
33:08 Guyana was very clear on its objective to benefit the big transnationals and not the
33:12 development of the people or Guyana or Venezuela or the Caribbean people.
33:18 There's a very interesting fact, Vice President, and it is that when Venezuela went through
33:24 nationalization in 2005 and the companies that were here began to move to join ventures,
33:31 the only one of the few that did not change is ExxonMobil.
33:34 In 2006, Rick Tylerson was the CEO for the Obama administration.
33:39 He was still the CEO of ExxonMobil until 2016, and then he became Secretary of State.
33:46 So that is what the puzzle is, which is very obvious.
33:50 It is already the policy of greater aggression during the Trump administration and Tylerson
33:56 as his Secretary of State.
34:00 It is what this controversy is further fueled, and when Guyana assumes very radical positions
34:05 of turning its back on international legality, not only violating the Geneva Agreement, but
34:10 also violating international law by offering territories in a sea that has not been delimited.
34:17 And let's leave Mexico right now, Vice President.
34:19 Now we are going to Dominican Republic with Juan Carlos Espinal from Red Social TV.
34:25 Later on, we will elaborate a bit on what you were saying, who will benefit from this
34:31 oil exploitation?
34:32 Will this also benefit the people of the Caribbean?
34:35 But let's listen to Juan Carlos first.
34:41 How to understand, how to realize that on the one hand, the State Department of the
34:47 United States of the government of Joe Biden, who is insisting on re-election, is using
34:54 the government of Guyana to dispute territories that have been sufficiently discussed in terms
35:00 of international public law.
35:05 On the other hand, the Barbados agreements of the discussions and debates of the dialogues
35:11 carried out by the government of President Nicolás Maduro in Barbados have been agreed
35:17 with the Venezuelan opposition for the presidential elections.
35:22 And then these referendums arise.
35:28 How can we from Latin America and the Caribbean understand the geopolitical ambiguities of
35:34 these corridors and at the same time, on the other hand, stimulate the internal dialogue
35:40 in Venezuela?
35:41 Well, in addition to the matrix, in Venezuela we hear that the issue of the Guyana-Ezequiel
35:54 is an electoral juncture.
35:56 I think that's where it's heading to.
35:59 No, it has nothing to do with it, because remember that this situation worsened in the
36:05 month of September when Guyana announced that it was granting concessions in a sea pending
36:10 delimitation.
36:11 Very serious, very serious.
36:15 What does that mean, Vice President?
36:18 After defining the land boundary, it is possible to start a negotiation process on the sea.
36:26 What has happened here?
36:28 The territorial sea.
36:30 The maritime, the maritime territory.
36:32 What has happened here?
36:34 First, Guyana is even prejudging the results of the International Court of Justice, because
36:41 by taking possession of that sea pending delimitation, they are taking for granted what will be the
36:47 result of the process being carried out in the International Court of Justice as a result
36:52 of their unilateral claim.
36:54 They have already reached a decision and therefore they have gone to the sea.
36:58 But it also not only prejudges, it violates international law and international maritime
37:03 law, because this should be submitted to a process of consensus and negotiation.
37:09 They're handing over the sea.
37:11 What they lack is to rule over the airspace.
37:15 I have said it because they are going even further, and that is why that was recently
37:19 in September.
37:21 President Nicolás Maduro, in view of the situation, in view of this process, where
37:26 they are going to the International Court of Justice without having the voluntary consent
37:30 of Venezuela, giving that process is being made in the granting of concessions in a sea
37:36 pending to be delimited.
37:38 Well, the situation arises where the Venezuelan Parliament, the National Assembly, addresses
37:44 this and decides to summon the Venezuelan people.
37:47 They decide to consult the Venezuelan people.
37:50 And with the United States making statements in support of Guyana, in some way they are
37:56 impacting Barbados Agreement, because there is a very clear position in the Barbados Agreement.
38:02 Answering a little bit the question of this fellow journalist from the Dominican Republic,
38:13 Juan Carlos, in some way it is also adding fuel to the fire, which is stoking a situation
38:20 in which Guyana is very clear in the script.
38:25 It is very clear.
38:26 Guyana is not heeding the calls that have been made for dialogue.
38:31 Guyana is not heeding the fact that they are bound by the Geneva Agreement.
38:36 They are still part of an agreement that is in force.
38:41 That agreement cannot be terminated by any of the parts.
38:43 That agreement ends the day there is a practical and satisfactory solution for both parties.
38:49 And then what did Guyana pretend in the International Court of Justice?
38:53 Venezuela has said that there was a triumph.
38:57 We do not consider it a triumph, but that the Court reviews the actions of the United
39:03 Kingdom since 1835 or the Paris Arbitral Award for Venezuela is something positive.
39:10 Yes, in November 2022, when Venezuela went with the figure of preliminary sanctions,
39:17 Luis Guillermo, making it very clear that he does not recognize the compulsory jurisdiction
39:23 over this dispute, but he was asking very basic questions.
39:27 Who signed the Treaty of Washington of 1897?
39:31 Guyana did not even exist as a republic.
39:33 Guyana was a colony.
39:35 And the fraudulent sentence of the Paris Arbitral Award of 1899 was issued.
39:42 Guyana did not exist as a republic.
39:43 It was a colony.
39:46 And Venezuela was saying that here an essential third party is missing, which is the United
39:53 Kingdom, an essential third party.
39:56 We always made our position very clear, but we wanted to somehow uncover what was happening.
40:02 And there, while the Court does not admit the preliminary sanction, but says that in
40:07 the end it will study the United Kingdom's actions, it also says other things in that
40:11 decision of the year 2020, of December 2020.
40:15 The Court says to Guyana, I am not going to review here the maritime territory.
40:20 That is why it is very serious what Guyana is doing, deciding over a sea that is not
40:24 delimited and where it was also excluded in the claim that they had in their unilateral
40:31 claim.
40:32 You mentioned in your last media presentation, well, that the royalties from oil exploitation
40:36 do not reach the Guyana people, as you just explained.
40:41 Well, there is a concern about this issue among other colleagues that, for example,
40:47 Barbados, which is a country that is a friend of ours, we are going to listen to David,
40:53 our colleague David, David Denny.
40:57 Go ahead, David.
40:59 My name is David Denny, and I am the General Secretary for the Caribbean Movement for Peace
41:06 and Integration, and also the General Secretary for the Friends of Venezuela Solidarity Committee
41:14 in Barbados.
41:17 We are very supportive of your government's position to hold a referendum in relation
41:26 to the issue between Guyana and Venezuela.
41:30 So we are very supportive of that initiative.
41:35 But my question to you would be to ask you if we can develop a situation that would allow
41:51 us as Caribbean people to work together and to develop the type of industry and working
42:00 relationship that both the Venezuelan people, the Guyanese people, and the wider Caribbean
42:12 can benefit from the resources that are between Guyana and Venezuela.
42:21 That's my question.
42:23 That's a very good question, because I do not know why there is an agreement between
42:28 Indiana and Tobago, and there is the issue of the blockade imposed by the United States
42:33 on the Caribbean countries.
42:36 An immoral blockade, because to impact the Caribbean as it has been done through the
42:39 blockade of Venezuela, just look at what happened with Haiti.
42:44 Haiti is practically a failed state, and that was after what?
42:51 After the brilliant idea they had of blockading Venezuela, where the financial flows to finance
42:57 import social programs in Haiti simply dried up, and well, a very serious economic and
43:03 social situation, a real humanitarian crisis in Haiti.
43:08 This question is very important, and it is the question that gets straight to the core
43:13 of the issue, and I repeat, Guyana is openly working for the transnational corporation.
43:23 Not for the Caribbean.
43:24 I would like to see the president of the Guyana design a program similar to the Petro-Caribbean.
43:32 That was what I was going to ask.
43:34 I have already asked about it.
43:36 If you remember, Madalena, the SELAC European Union Summit in Brussels, we pointed out in
43:41 our intervention.
43:43 I would like to see among those who are here who is willing to design a program like Petro-Caribbean
43:50 that would benefit the peoples of our region, because we have the right to grow as a region,
43:56 to develop our great potential as Latin American and the Caribbean.
43:59 This is a region called to be a great power, but the position of Guyana that victimizes
44:06 itself is not.
44:09 Our resources are for the transnationals, not even for our own people.
44:13 Look, there is a very important fact, Luis Guillermo.
44:16 Look for the report presented by Guyana in 2015 in the World Trade Organization.
44:22 There Guyana knocks down all these arguments that Venezuela impedes its right to development,
44:28 that Venezuela is imperialist, that because Venezuela already has resources that it wants
44:32 to take away from them, a barbarity that they have expressed.
44:37 But in that report, they state the positive impact that Petro-Caribbean had in Guyana.
44:45 Because let us remember that Guyana also benefited from Petro-Caribbean in a very important and
44:50 suitable integral policy of Commander Chavez to add cooperation for development.
45:00 But Chavez was very firm in the defense of this controversy of our right over the Guyana
45:06 Esequiba, and Chavez was very firm in saying that in the Geneva Agreement.
45:11 But at the same time, he added this program.
45:14 In the report of the World Trade Organization, those numbers are stated, the positive impact
45:19 of Petro-Caribbean had on the economic and social development of Guyana.
45:24 The question that David has asked is the main question.
45:28 Why is Guyana refusing to negotiate?
45:31 Why is Guyana refusing to reach a consensual agreement with Venezuela?
45:35 An agreement that, as you have just said, for example, just now the exploitation of
45:40 the dragon gas field was signed with Trinidad and Tobago, a brother country, a neighbor
45:45 country.
45:47 Why in this case we cannot reach a similar agreement that has a positive impact on the
45:51 Caribbean?
45:52 And on the contrary, they go to imperial France.
45:55 They are going to benefit the big transnationals and other people.
46:00 The social data of Guyana is hidden.
46:02 They do not publish it because they know we have seen through the data figures from the
46:09 United Nations Organizations on Human Development and Equality, and they have hidden it.
46:14 We will have to check the account of Irfan Ali, the president of Guyana, to see how he's
46:18 going to do.
46:20 And from Barbaros, Vice President, we are now going to another Caribbean country that
46:25 is very concerned about the development of the situation, and this is related to another
46:29 colleague who is in Belize.
46:31 Let's listen to her.
46:34 If there is an affirmative vote in the referendum approving the integration of the current population
46:40 in the Ezequiel region, and they are to be automatically considered Venezuelans, how
46:46 soon will that process begin after the vote?
46:51 Interesting the questions from the colleagues, isn't it?
46:53 Yes, very good.
46:54 This refers to the fifth question of the creation of the Guyana-Ezequiel territory so that we
47:00 can give attention to our population because it is our population and we are going to see
47:06 that this population can have complete attention.
47:09 So those who want to have their identity card have the right to have their identity card
47:14 and access to programs.
47:15 Is there any idea about how many Guyanese would like to be Venezuelan?
47:19 Not exactly, Luis Guillermo, not exactly.
47:21 But we know that poverty is widespread and, well, it is an area that requires integral
47:26 attention.
47:27 What is the question?
47:30 Vice President, we are practically in the final stage of the program, but here in the
47:34 production team we wanted to play a little bit seriously.
47:40 We know that you play ping pong.
47:43 It had to be one of Luis Guillermo.
47:46 But you have seen her playing.
47:47 She is very good.
47:49 How long has it been since you last played ping pong?
47:52 In China, I played in China.
47:54 Recently?
47:55 Recently, when we were in China.
47:57 I told you not to come up with this one of yours.
47:59 They didn't set the table, so we are going to have to ask questions that look like ping
48:03 pong.
48:04 We are going to do ping pong.
48:06 We are going to put some words and you, with your intellectual rocket, are going to give
48:10 an answer.
48:11 Is that okay?
48:12 I am going to start with one.
48:15 Plunder.
48:16 Luis Almagro, decimal.
48:19 Irfan Ali.
48:21 ExxonMobil employee.
48:24 International Court of Justice.
48:27 We ratify our historical position.
48:29 Esequibo.
48:30 Territory of Venezuela.
48:35 I leave you because you are insisting on saying it.
48:37 So the question, I am going to talk a little bit.
48:41 One of those who think that our A*, I am Venezuelan, our A* on the Venezuelan flag is the province
48:48 of Guyana, as Bolivar declared it, which includes the territory of Esequibo at the time.
48:54 Then the question is?
48:55 And in the 1819 constitution of Angostura incorporates the province of Guyana.
49:01 Exactly because of the 17th Bolivar declares it.
49:04 And one year before, A*.
49:09 Our Guyana Esequibo said it.
49:13 Now the arbitral Paris award, a fraud.
49:17 Geneva agreement.
49:18 The special law for the sides.
49:21 I add, last consultative referendum.
49:25 Mandate of the Venezuelan people.
49:27 Well, Vice President, thank you very much for being here with us time and time again.
49:33 It must be said the Venezuelan government has called for dialogue.
49:36 And on the ping pong table is the proposal of President Nicolás Maduro for a meeting
49:42 with the Guyanese counterpart Irfan Ali in any Caribbean country to resume the Geneva
49:48 agreement and the Caribbean and Latin America is a region of peace and dialogue.
49:54 And that is the best weapon.
49:57 This has always been said.
49:59 And when the electoral campaign began, what we heard from the people was that we are a
50:07 country of peace.
50:09 We're not a country of war.
50:11 We do not like war.
50:13 And we are going to the consultative referendum, which is our best weapon.
50:17 Nor will we fall into provocations.
50:19 Our out is peace.
50:20 It has always been the way and our Bolivarian diplomacy is one of peace.
50:24 I still wanted to.
50:25 To do what?
50:27 To continue with the program because above all, up to here, this program, which we have
50:32 called Generalist Speaks, of course, this is a redonesis for journalists who ask questions,
50:37 but well, Generalist Speaks.
50:38 So thank you very much.
50:40 Thank you.
50:41 And for your time.
50:42 Thank you.
50:43 Thank you for following us, of course, on Telesur, which has inaugurated this series
50:47 of programs with the vice president of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.
50:54 And with such an important topic, do not hesitate that we will have a program of great magnitude
51:00 with a significant person, the vice president.
51:03 Thank you for joining us.
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