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00:00:00in 2006 there was this idea for a reality show when it started it was
00:00:16really just supposed to be about a group of women who live in incredible wealth
00:00:23that has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger people are attracted to what
00:00:29looks like a perfect life but it's really not all it's cracked up to be
00:00:36if you're a fan of reality television I have to tell you some things that you may find disturbing
00:00:46are the police involved it's pretty sick most people that do these shows they're not happy
00:00:54I'm innocent did any of this happen while it's over there I'm not guilty of any of these who is the
00:01:03worst criminal I ever dealt with it would be her hands down you're gonna be on the edge of your
00:01:10chair so do you love me or hate me what made you decide to go on a show like real housewives
00:01:16the key to the success of the real housewives are the real housewives themselves
00:01:24nothing like plugging my own chair right
00:01:28no there's nothing you can do
00:01:33I loved watching the first episode of real housewives of Orange County
00:01:46because in some way all of the women reminded me of someone that I knew
00:01:53I first started watching the housewives because someone had told me that someone
00:01:59had flipped a table and I wanted to see it in 2006 Bravo started airing the real housewives
00:02:07of Orange County and now the real housewives are a cultural juggernaut housewives is one
00:02:13piece of this behemoth cultural movement that has fundamentally changed how we look at television and they
00:02:21have a bunch of American iterations that are wildly diverse so for Orange County you're
00:02:28telling the story of suburban women in Southern California then you have real
00:02:33housewives of New York most people work in finance real housewives of Miami is
00:02:37like a melting pot of different cultures in Miami in the US the housewives
00:02:42franchise has 10 shows there are 21 adaptations internationally and there are
00:02:50over 150 cast members they're often Bravo loberties that is someone who appeared on a show on the Bravo Network
00:03:01often means that you grow to have quite a big social media following that allows you to obtain brand
00:03:10opportunities further television opportunities business opportunities
00:03:15and every real housewives series it's the same fruit just different people
00:03:25it's the same fake fights the fake cattiness the fake drama it's not real
00:03:33what do you feel right now like I just watch a prison scene and some salacious movie about women in
00:03:47prison feels dirty feels like I need to take a shower I have met many of these housewives I know them
00:03:55personally and as the housewife franchise has moved along a surprising number of these women have been
00:04:01involved in some sort of criminal endeavor Teresa what do you think of the sentence
00:04:06Dr. Shannon's DUI is about to be sued you have to wonder what the implications of all that is
00:04:13any comment on the charges if you watch like the first first season and a half it is an
00:04:19unbelievably different show than the housewives we have now
00:04:23I wanted it to be a learning show the show changed drastically from first season I'm Gina Keough formerly
00:04:37of the Real Housewives of Orange County I started as a model in Chicago and was brought out to California
00:04:45to do a movie I did about seven movies the first year 150 commercials over my career I was living in
00:04:55Cota de Caza in Orange County so I actually grew up in Orange County my wife grew up in Orange County
00:05:02which was a sleepy bedroom community when I was growing up and all of a sudden a lot of money came in
00:05:08and everyone seems to be interested in the money down in Orange County people in Southern California
00:05:15your currency are things like having a boat or a second home and not necessarily where you went to
00:05:22school and what you do for a living when I first moved my next-door neighbor was Scott Dunlop Scott Dunlop
00:05:32was an actor and producer so every time he'd come over to my house he's like you always have the most
00:05:37interesting people here he liked that there was always a writer a director an athlete an actor
00:05:42all these cool people hanging out and mean we did live bigger than normal lives he's like I want to do
00:05:49a show about your family he had thought about the success of Desperate Housewives about a group of
00:05:56women who lived in suburbs and I want those non-fat peach yogurts and the women are bonkers and there's no
00:06:02better show if you're a fan of reality television let me explain how these shows are cast and produced
00:06:09so Bravo owns the show but they don't produce or create the show that's done by a production company
00:06:14they partner with so often the way these things are cast is a production company goes out puts
00:06:19together the cast they think is going to work and presents that to the network
00:06:22Scott got four other families they went next door and got Vicky and then Vicky's secretary
00:06:31Laurie and there was Kim I found Joe De La Rosa at a party and I thought they were just fascinating
00:06:37because she was so cute he just said it's going to be like a reality show and then he took it to Bravo
00:06:43Bravo used to be the most boring high art channel on cable then Bravo was doing Project Runway and
00:06:57Queer Eye for the Straight Guy they were fun and campy we need to get you some grown-up clothes some
00:07:03sophisticated clothes Bravo's early success I think showed other networks that you can make so much
00:07:09money if you decide to speak to an audience other than straight white men between 18 and 45 well I
00:07:16had watched Bravo for millionaire matchmaker Tabitha Salon takeover going to change everything well these
00:07:24shows were driven by host where every episode had a guest with a problem and the host fixed it and the
00:07:30episode was wrapped up in a nice bow but housewives was going to be very different the real housewives
00:07:39is a docu-soap essentially a reality show that features an ensemble cast of characters but have
00:07:46some sort of back history you get to see people's lives over a longer period of time this was really
00:07:54kind of the first time that you saw a story of this kind play out on a show Andy Cohen was the VP of
00:08:01programming at Bravo responsible for green lighting shows and he decided to take a chance with it
00:08:07Andy Cohen is like the godfather of Bravo he really loved soap operas he was like a big Susan Lucci fan
00:08:17and I think seeing these women who are maybe similar to like soap opera stars is fun for him
00:08:24and they said okay we like it go do it I thought it was gonna go really well so we invited everybody
00:08:38to my house and we did a big dinner and we watched it life is different in a gated community the land
00:08:46here is a million an acre it's so boring it's so flat and I don't have to worry about him we tell
00:08:53each other everything it's just like women lunching together and like it's more just them at home with
00:08:58their kids you see maybe a dynamic in a marriage that's a little off but no one's talking about it
00:09:04I have 12 years on Jo she's only 24 years old but you know it works out so great for us because
00:09:10I'm eager to teach she's eager to learn in one of the early episodes of the first season they spend
00:09:15so much time just showing a housewife doing paperwork it's a lot of anticipation lab planning
00:09:22I did plan all the flights for my family to come as well as Branagh's dad it had less than half a
00:09:29million in viewership just pretty low even Andy Cohen didn't like the early cuts of early episodes the
00:09:38housewives are our intent to enter spaces that most of us will never be able to go into I am
00:09:45never going to be able to hang out with the richest women that's not happening for me but I am really
00:09:52curious how they talk to each other and what kind of stuff they buy the kinds of problems you have when
00:09:58you're a mega millionaire I don't really care about what they want to show me I want to see what they
00:10:06don't want to show me and I do think Andy understood that it was about us as the audience getting access to the
00:10:15elites and are they being honest with us after season one they made some tweaks it seemed like when it comes
00:10:24to casting they are looking for people that are dramatic in my world drama means unstable you think
00:10:34about drama every Shakespearean play every Greek tragedy is about sick people behaving sick it's not
00:10:41healthy people being healthy that's boring so naturally and reasonably the producers they're going
00:10:48to go towards people who create drama one person left the first season and they just brought new people
00:10:56in when the show started it wasn't so sweet and then you start to see them bringing people in that have a
00:11:07criminal history there's mysteries around who they are I don't think the audience is fully aware of the full
00:11:16story I never ever really spoken about my relationship with one of the housewives so do you love me or hate
00:11:26me I've never spoken publicly about this I think she went on the show because she was getting in trouble for years
00:11:35she knew they were coming out there I wanted to tell my story because I'm one of the victims of one of the
00:11:44housewives so who else did you guys interview before besides us two today today just you guys just you
00:11:55guys yeah yeah did Gina talk a lot I wasn't on season one I was already divorced from the girl's dad
00:12:06and I was breaking up with my ex stuff and my family was going through a lot but Gina said go on the show
00:12:13you'll have fun I think we just want to hang out I think I was the first person who tried out
00:12:18we go into a very naive Nikki that's going to be happy and they just ask what's going on you like
00:12:25do you mind filming it was very vague they asked really sweet questions but then when the show started
00:12:30wasn't so sweet after season one I think that the production company did a better job of highlighting
00:12:39each woman's singular story and really pulling out the thing that was most interesting about each
00:12:46one and that means exposing things that could be painful introducing the audience to relationships
00:12:52in your life that may be a little bit uncomfortable my story on the housewives was I was in a relationship
00:13:00with my ex stuff and was having a hard time moving on and they showed a lot of that the back and forth of
00:13:07us you know either trying to get back together or not back together and then a girl's dad died you know
00:13:14between season one and season two I think people that are cast on the housewife show and take it on or not
00:13:22that happy I felt damsel in distress I felt pathetic I felt it like a pity party on myself I felt like it
00:13:30was just everybody was sad around me and production was hard on both my girls it's just hard for them to
00:13:38live a life you know don't make me cry but admit it's hard for them to live a life sorry I'm sorry
00:13:45good no I just I don't I think I was gonna go on that road but yeah I don't want to get emotional
00:13:52the production company would recruit middle to upper class people and they started finding people
00:14:03that would buy the dream of hey you can be on the show and then you'll be a celebrity
00:14:08and they start to see is there any outside controversies that will be good storylines
00:14:15because if controversy swirls around one of their housewives that makes for better ratings
00:14:21you take someone like Tamra judge who's on the real housewives of Orange County and what was most
00:14:28interesting about her was that she had a marriage that seemed to have a lot of cracks on one episode
00:14:35there were very uncomfortable conversations between Tamra and her husband in a limo
00:14:40I mean you're not even the same person I knew two years ago people change time makes you change but
00:14:45I mean I think that I was and it was painful to watch I don't like who you are right now
00:14:49so it culminated where she finally says that's it I want a divorce you you
00:14:57real housewives of Orange County jumped to an average of more than two million viewers
00:15:07if you watch Bravo you are just in it all the way I don't know what my problem is but I love that
00:15:15kind of television but now how do we outdo ourselves next season they want to build their audience the
00:15:21question in a housewife's franchise is what does that mean Lori is the sweetest kindest gentlest person
00:15:30but it seemed like Lori's role in the show was to be the abused secretary I need to see more effort
00:15:38more ambition as an active agent you definitely want to bring your license Lori Waring Peterson had
00:15:44three children and ends up meeting a very wealthy man but before she was a struggling single mother
00:15:50you would see her filmed in her small townhouse in the beginning I don't know that Bravo wanted to
00:16:00point out that the divorce left Lori really struggling but they seem to want this single mom
00:16:08that you want to root for and going through all this stuff and it was very obvious from the beginning
00:16:14that her son was really struggling with addiction issues I immediately enrolled Josh into a drug rehab
00:16:21center it was the most depressing moment of my life what people really liked about her was that she was so
00:16:29honest about how hard it was to manage raising a child that was struggling so much with addiction
00:16:36when you have those sorts of moments that you just know audiences are going to pick up on
00:16:42producers go that direction I mean that's good producing but it's odd to me they don't wait for
00:16:48the ratings to come in they just know immediately oh this is it this is where we got to go
00:16:52so while Lori's on the show she ends up having a third wedding but while that's happening her son
00:16:58Josh is sent to jail because he'd recently been arrested for possession of heroin
00:17:02are the police involved sadly her tagline was are the police involved it was sort of making light
00:17:12of I don't know what to expect with my child at very minimum Lori had a sense she needed to pay
00:17:21attention to what was going on to get off television so she left the show oh the key to the success of
00:17:34the Real Housewives are the Real Housewives themselves I mean the the the casting is the secret sauce with
00:17:41the Real Housewives without them the show would be nothing two years after the Real Housewives of Orange
00:17:48County had taken off Bravo knew they had a hit franchise so they launched the Real Housewives of
00:17:53New York and Atlanta and then New Jersey Real Housewives of New Jersey started in 2009 it was like
00:18:03Sopranos meets 1950s housewife there was something kind of delicious to viewers that they felt like oh
00:18:10we're gonna see women who have a dark side I interviewed the executive producers and directors to get all of
00:18:17the backstory and there is rumor that the Housewives of New Jersey cast took an unusually long time to sign their contracts and people wondered why that was were they concerned about secrets coming out
00:18:33Daniel Staub was introduced to us like the woman in town who flirts with every single husband my motto is you either love me or hate me she was sort of this minx who you cannot trust her around your husband
00:18:44like she was very proud of her body in one of the opening scenes of Real Housewives she's tanning outside that was like her thing she's just mysterious enough to keep you interested and she was constantly complaining about her ex-husband Kevin Maher
00:18:51my name is Kevin Maher and I never ever really spoken about my relationship with Daniel Staub
00:18:58In 1985 I was a paid confidential informant for the FBI DEA secret service US costume as well as NYPD the FDLE in Florida
00:19:13and I was a paid confidential informant for the FBI DEA secret service US custom
00:19:17I was a paid confidential informant for the FBI DEA Secret Service US Custom as well as NYPD the
00:19:27FDLE in Florida and I worked for them for about five years undercover it's an average day I drove
00:19:38down with my brand new Porsche and I pick up John at a club he was the drug dealer and he goes well
00:19:47we're having a party up there it was in a hotel room so on the way to the hotel he goes oh I want
00:19:54you to meet this girl Beverly Ann Merrill she's really interesting you're gonna love her so I go
00:20:00oh okay cool she's in the room so John opens the door and leads me in and I walk in and bang there
00:20:08she is everything about her exuded sex the way she wore her clothes the way she walked she was in her
00:20:17absolute prime her body was flawless it was the best sex of my life it was just a super sexual
00:20:28relations that we had and that's how I first met Beverly Merrill Daniel Stobbs original name Beverly
00:20:39she was involved with a drug dealer and he was involved with narcotic trafficking pistol whipping
00:20:52somebody and kidnapping I think it was the second night that I met her we were in a hotel and then she
00:21:07confides in me that she's out on bail she says you know I've been arrested and I'm facing prison and then
00:21:15she starts to cry and then like an idiot I tell her that I am an undercover confidential informant and
00:21:26there's a lot of things I could do for you and she was shocked this is the first time and it's been
00:21:34what 40 something years that I ever talked about that I confided in her and how stupid I was she could
00:21:40have easily have gotten up and told that all these guys that I was informed and I wouldn't have known
00:21:45and I was walked right into my own demise you know what the Colombians would do if they ever found out
00:21:52that I was an informant tell me what she tells you about her case you mean what why she told me she never
00:22:02told me her part until I found out later in 1986 she was involved with a drug dealer he kidnapped a kid
00:22:14from Buffalo who wanted to get into the drug trade and had stole $25,000 worth of cocaine beat him held him
00:22:23hostage let's stop there who does that who who does that so he goes let me call my parents he's on the
00:22:37phone saying I effed up I got in trouble I need $25,000 the father hangs up the phone calls the FBI
00:22:45then the FBI arrested them all she was charged with extortion kidnapping drug possession out of the
00:23:02folks that were involved in it she was the least culpable not that she wasn't culpable because she
00:23:08absolutely was but she was the least culpable yeah I never knew she fooled me I just believed it and
00:23:16I felt sorry for her and I wanted to help her and I did and immediately looked at this 25 year old
00:23:23girl from upstate Pennsylvania thinking she's way out of her league she doesn't know what she's doing
00:23:30I said I can help you can you give me a drug dealer yes she did to make a long story short introduces me
00:23:37to this guy and he gets arrested so now she's set everybody's happy
00:23:43I married Beverly because I knew that this parole guy was gonna eventually catch us and she was gonna
00:23:59go to prison because I am a convicted felon I married Beverly Merrill October 25th 1988 and our marriage
00:24:11ended on October 25th 1989 it's just dawning on me now 40 something years later and she probably looked at
00:24:21me like playing me the whole time that I helped her with her court case
00:24:28were you a fan of the series before you got involved I I really hadn't watched it when we were addressed
00:24:38originally it took me six months later I decided decided well maybe I will do this the next time I would
00:24:45hear from this woman was 2009 I had a book come out cop without a badge is based on my undercover life
00:24:53in it when you get to 1986 guess who pops up so do you love me or hate me and I get a call and saying
00:25:03hey you're on this TV show realize what you're doing they're flashing your book first there was all these
00:25:09rumors about Danielle and now there's a book one of the housewives Teresa does not like Danielle and
00:25:16because she hates her Teresa finds this book that details some of Danielle's past about her allegedly
00:25:22being a sex worker and about her many engagements which is not a crime and she got busted with 10 kilos of
00:25:30cocaine loaded guns can you believe this this is what happened this is a woman you want in our lives I
00:25:37remember watching it and thinking like this feels kind of nasty and at this one iconic moment they're
00:25:46sitting at a long table Teresa Giudice is at the head of the table Danielle is sitting there and she
00:25:51seems really uncomfortable and it suggested that she's not being completely honest about who she was
00:25:57what the audience did not know was that one of the producers was underneath the table and handed the
00:26:05book to Danielle Stahl and he hands the book to her and then she brings the book out and you see Teresa and her
00:26:13eyes are slowly getting bigger and bigger and bigger and it says is this what you're talking about I'd like to
00:26:19talk to all of you for a minute I brought this book with me because it seems to be haunting me I could have
00:26:30stopped laughing because of you two things are written that are true what name change I got arrested
00:26:35obviously there has to be something else Teresa's over-the-top reaction is to the resentment you're trying to
00:26:43make me look stupid on a TV show when you're the one who has the criminal activity what I see in
00:26:51Teresa there's actually a hysterical component she literally loses track of herself and that's when
00:26:56everything kind of like explodes okay who does that there are 20 people sitting at this table
00:27:18and she is sending wine glasses flying if somebody did that in real life you'd call the cops you'd have
00:27:24them arrested that's domestic violence Teresa was so fixated about Danielle allegedly being a sex
00:27:32worker she loses the fact that Danielle was convicted of a felony so I don't think most viewers actually
00:27:38know that what we remember is engaged 19 times you prostitution whore if you really want to know what I
00:27:45think yeah I don't know I thought it was I think that's violent and I'm not into that I mean who wants to
00:27:52see mud wrestling but that's coming next I suppose the table flip it's kind of a rare glimpse into
00:27:58female rage you don't get a lot of that in reality TV you don't by this point Bravo Hood aired 85 episodes
00:28:05over four different iterations of the housewives but that episode got around three and a half million
00:28:12viewers that wasn't just the highest episode of that season it was the highest episode of all the real
00:28:17housewives so far that scene became so played that it pushed her into mainstream fame you see
00:28:28Teresa on other shows I mean she brings up the table flip she mimics the table flip it's become part of
00:28:33her brand Teresa Giudice was one of the first housewives to utilize every branding opportunity
00:28:46she gets a book deal to make a cookbook there were deals with magazines just to do a photo shoot with
00:28:56her whole family in order to sell issues of the magazine she had a reputation as somebody who seemed
00:29:04up for any opportunity that would make money outside of the show and then who knew that her life was
00:29:11going to be crazier than anything in 2012 one of the case agents with IRS criminal investigation happened
00:29:21to be watching the real housewives of New Jersey and it shows a significant amount of cash that was being expended
00:29:26by Teresa so we started to peel back the layers we identified one loan application way before the TV show she
00:29:35supplied pay stubs that job did not exist she had applied for another mortgage and this time she claimed that she was a
00:29:45realtor making $15,000 a month and when in fact it was totally fabricated then after the first season
00:29:52here in New Jersey Teresa and Joe filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy but they claimed that they were earning
00:30:00less than what they actually were in addition Joe and Teresa had not filed a tax return for at least
00:30:07eight years from 2000 through 2008 so Teresa received 15 months in prison and Joe received 41 months in
00:30:22prison one generosity that the courts gave was that they didn't have to serve at the same time so that
00:30:28somebody could stay with their children which is truly an allowance only given to the wealthy white
00:30:34Americans of the world because no one else is getting that since that happened so much of the housewives is
00:30:42rooted on who's actually rich that was like a big thing for an Erica Jane Erica Jane was kind of the
00:30:50closest the housewives got to like a real Barbie like it was a new look every single scene she has all these
00:31:01different matching outfits she was presented as incredibly wealthy so Barbie had Ken and Erica had Tom
00:31:08Girardi in that great you know you feel really good about yourself a very very powerful class action Los
00:31:15Angeles attorney but they did not earn that money he basically wasn't paying the people that he was
00:31:21supposed to pay he was using that money to finance her pop career Nini links was a breakout star for
00:31:34Housewives of Atlanta I know Nini very well I think she's lovely but before she was on the show when she
00:31:42was 25 years of age ripped off her phone company to the tune of a couple thousand dollars she had to pay
00:31:47restitution and two years of probation and the audience kind of just thought all right well that
00:31:53kind of makes you more interesting I think it was probably clear to producers pretty early on that maybe
00:31:59it's worth putting someone in on the show who does have crimes committed in the past because if you do have
00:32:04any legal issues I think it was clear that that would be enticing to viewership and it gave them
00:32:09something to talk about every season you're lucky Danielle was here guys if she wasn't on the first two
00:32:15seasons what would we have been watching Erica Jane Girardi is about to be sued for racketeering
00:32:21you guys after Shannon's DUI this is massive it's epic the funny thing about Teresa she actually went
00:32:30back on Housewives after jail my big question with this is always like what crimes does Bravo consider too
00:32:37big to stay on the franchise what crime is is the wrong crime to have on a show like this
00:32:44take a look at me yay it's Jen yes this is exactly how I remember her yeah so Jen Louie we were in the
00:32:59same high school south of Salt Lake City the first time I remember seeing Jen was an assembly on the
00:33:06basketball court and she just had this look of uncertainty but as she walked over with the
00:33:12cheer group when that head came up and the eyes were up it was just magic she was the only girl that
00:33:20could dance and she was fun to watch she was different than everybody else Salt Lake City is
00:33:30synonymous with the Mormon Church but here is a Polynesian girl at first it seemed to me that she
00:33:36was a little shy I never went over to her house I never had sleepovers she was a good girl after high
00:33:45school we all did our own thing what I knew about Jen was that she had two children and that she had
00:33:50married a coach at the University of Utah she became Jen Shaw and she just really to me seemed like she had
00:33:58her life together successful and everything looked perfect then I had a high school classmate about five
00:34:07years ago said hey have you seen Jen Louie on TV Bravo announced that their 10th installment was
00:34:14going to be Salt Lake City I was convinced it would be bad Salt Lake is a weird city to pick
00:34:20housewives is usually warm weather climates it's women on beaches it's women having lunch outside it
00:34:27didn't seem to fit into the typical real housewives mold it seemed almost like they found a bunch of
00:34:34characters and then kind of put them together but there was one housewife in particular that really
00:34:40stood out I saw her picture and I was like wow wow Jen she's done really well Jen Shaw had crazy
00:34:47outfits big jewels nails like daggers Jen looked like a different person it had changed from my hometown
00:34:54girl to somebody more high profile I'd say it was like she had emerged from the goop of the matrix but
00:35:01the goop was like real housewives material I always say that reality stars have celebrity syndrome and
00:35:08what that is is that they've always perceived themselves as a celebrity Jen Shaw had taglines
00:35:15like Shaw amazing I want it to be Shaw amazing yeah I want it to be shabulous this is like somebody who
00:35:22had studied several seasons of not just one franchise of real housewives but several who thought quite a bit
00:35:31about like who am I going to be on a show and perceive themselves as a potential mega star on the
00:35:37network now that is celebrity syndrome sometimes the real housewives producers will do us a solid and
00:35:46show us audition videotapes because that is really the most authentic version of themselves I'm Jen Shaw I'm 28
00:35:53years old aka 45 and the audition tape she's so braggadocious so over the top I probably spent at
00:36:00least 50 grand a month she's talking about how she spends 50 thousand dollars a month on all of her beauty
00:36:07and fashion needs and you're like real people don't do that Jen was living a lifestyle that was
00:36:15incredibly opulent hair and makeup every day designer clothing all these vacations private jets the kids are
00:36:21sending to college and her husband is a university football coach so nobody could understand how she
00:36:30had so much money it all seemed a little smoke and mirrors from the very beginning tell me your name and
00:36:36what's your connection to this story my name is Molly McLaughlin I was one of the victims of Jen Shaw and her company
00:36:51so introduce yourself and your connection I'm penny pocket we're small farm we were just barely making
00:36:59it and so I was trying to figure out a way to make some extra money okay and so I thought I'll make snuggle
00:37:08blankets or car seat blankets that would be something that I could market but I needed to understand how to
00:37:15do it my name is Molly McLaughlin in 2016 I had been let go of the job I had because the department was
00:37:29eliminated and so I was just searching pulling up you know like online work from home jobs so I just
00:37:36happened to kind of stumble across this website that had talked about online marketing work just reading
00:37:44over the description it sounded exactly like oh yeah that's definitely something I can do you just
00:37:50had to fill out some forms on on the internet and that is where they get you
00:37:58my name is Joe Bish I've never spoken publicly about this or the industry or Jen go ahead and have a seat
00:38:07I was in the sales industry for 10 plus years that's when I first met Jen
00:38:14I worked originally for a sales company selling people on how to do online businesses
00:38:19and what happened is that somebody it would fill out their name they'd fill out their information and
00:38:24the company would own that information that information would become a lead so let's sort of
00:38:30call out a lead for what it is it's someone who would be a target a mark for a potential brift
00:38:36the leads are everything Jen Shaw she was the queen of leads man she was in charge of finding new leads
00:38:45getting lead providers and we were four of people like 30 people on phones that all they do is call
00:38:51those leads and sell them I started getting phone calls from these different companies it looks like you
00:38:59purchased a program are you really serious about making money online they're very persuasive look if you pay
00:39:05us we'll one-on-one coach you on how to set up your online business and we'll give you all the tools
00:39:12software and training specialists who would help you develop a website my cost which did have a bit of
00:39:22sticker shock was ten thousand dollars to start I thought it was actually legit and if it is a legitimate
00:39:31business you do have to spend money to make money so here I had eight thousand dollars on a credit card
00:39:40but they had me do a wire transaction so every step it went it got upsold into something more
00:39:47it was ruthless we'd walk them through getting credit cards even we would literally get them third
00:39:54party calling discover card master card and getting them approved for a five thousand dollar credit card
00:39:59six thousand dollar credit card yeah so I had to open up a couple more credit cards to make it work
00:40:09when all was said and done the company stole forty four thousand dollars from me
00:40:15at that point I had to go with bankruptcy I remember one time actually that I think I was on the phone
00:40:29with my husband and I told him I want to cry and he said why and I said I have a headache and I can't even
00:40:38afford headache medicine I didn't even have four or five dollars to buy a little jar of it to take care of the headache
00:40:47I had lost somewhere around the thirty thousand dollar mark as hard as it is to talk about um
00:40:57it's also healing um in in one sense sorry um because it's been a pretty emotional roller coaster
00:41:08everything that was sold in this industry was legit and was probably worth three to five grand
00:41:19but sold at 30 to 50 grand that was the real problem in this industry it wasn't that it was
00:41:25illegitimate it was that it was way overly sold
00:41:32then the FTC came in and changed things they went look at man this is not right
00:41:39you are way overselling these people the FTC was putting a stranglehold on the lead providers
00:41:45online the FTC would find them there were floor owners that went to prison and that's what brought
00:41:52attention to jen probably because she was queen of leads and it's possible she could go down
00:42:07don't you have an opinion you're a smart woman you have an opinion of what's right and what's wrong
00:42:12right see right there that's a perfect example of jen selling somebody
00:42:17it was like man she goes on the housewives and everybody in this industry was like what in the
00:42:25is jen doing they were like oh if they haven't got it now they're definitely gonna get her now then
00:42:31she's definitely going down now
00:42:39the second season cameras continue to film jen shaw and one of the scenes before she
00:42:44exits the sprinter van she's getting a phone call from someone seemingly giving her a heads up
00:42:50that something was about to happen all of a sudden being surrounded by like the fbi
00:42:56in like a swat team we're looking for jen shaw it was the craziest episode of television i had ever
00:43:02seen ever it was so nuts jen shaw and her assistant are arrested for a conspiracy to commit wire fraud
00:43:12and this wire fraud is to the tune of five million dollars
00:43:23i received a call out of the blue and then they let me know that it was about jen shaw
00:43:31i had never heard of her jen shaw's the puppet master it's the one you never see but the one who
00:43:40profits the most it was quite frustrating seeing the clips of her walking around this extravagant
00:43:55lifestyle me thinking that's where my money went so cameras continue to film jen shaw and then you
00:44:03get to see her in moments with her own family thanks yeah and they've bailed her out in so many
00:44:11circumstances and she's denying she did anything wrong any fault it is because i am too giving
00:44:19my first thought was she was going on there to justify herself about her actions and make herself look
00:44:26so innocent when you're going into a trial it's important to have the facts and the truth out
00:44:33there not speculation rumors lies they never kicked jen off the show it's a great storyline you know and
00:44:39they say oh innocent until proven guilty and then a couple months later she pleads guilty and it's a
00:44:46complete shock jed pled guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and in january 2023 she was sentenced to
00:44:53six and a half years in minimum security prison i'm vaguely aware that she has had problems and that
00:45:01she's hurt people in particular shaw knowingly and intentionally facilitated the sales of leads
00:45:11there's lots of people who are really really broke now because of jen shaw's scams
00:45:18many of shaw's victims were elderly or vulnerable many of those people suffered significant financial
00:45:25hardship and damage at shaw's direction victims were defrauded over and over again until they had
00:45:30nothing left until the victim's bank accounts were empty one of jen shaw's victims ended up homeless
00:45:37their credit cards were at their limits and there was nothing more to take
00:45:41that's heartbreaking that shifts my whole focus away from her and it puts her in a completely
00:45:52different light in my mind people have saved their whole life savings and to have nothing left and to
00:45:58just go and go and take it all it's pretty sick
00:46:02it seems like the housewives franchise lean into it when somebody has a history of criminal behavior
00:46:11they know it but we like seeing them exposed and the question is how far does that go now we have
00:46:22substance use fraud to aggression where does this go what's next what's bigger what's louder than we've
00:46:31already have taylor armstrong her story is the most troubling to me what do you know about taylor before
00:46:39she's the housewife oh nothing nothing did you ever get to know taylor armstrong no no the cat meme
00:46:48that like went viral that's taylor yelling at this cat taylor armstrong appears first in the first season
00:46:57of real housewives of beverly hills she seemed to be really mysterious she was sort of cagey about
00:47:07her life before beverly hills i think my friend's life would have been a hundred percent different if
00:47:16he would have never got to taylor my name is randy edwards i met russell armstrong when i was 12 years
00:47:22old playing little league we grew up in carolton texas by 14 we were best friends and we were pretty
00:47:30much inseparable all the way through high school he had a big heart but yet he wanted to be rich
00:47:40russell wanted to be perceived as a successful venture capitalist he was from texas and came into
00:47:46beverly hills and russell had a lot of odd businesses that dealt with getting people's money
00:47:53like for investors and that's when he met taylor
00:48:00her name was shana hughes and then she changed it to ford
00:48:04it almost seemed as if she used the ford moniker because it would have brought on some level of
00:48:10prestige she has nothing to do with the ford family of the ford motor company family at all
00:48:16i believe taylor had four names total i think russ went for someone like taylor because that was just
00:48:22part of the whole la scene he was in russell and taylor married within a year and had a child kennedy
00:48:33russ posted something on facebook that taylor and he were going to be on a
00:48:38new series that was the real housewives of beverly hills
00:48:43i had called him and one of russ's close friends had actually questioned russ
00:48:49are you sure you want to do a reality tv show he was like have you seen those reality series and
00:48:54what they're going to do when i saw russ he had specifically said that he just did it for taylor
00:49:01so in 2010 bravo started airing the real housewives of beverly hills i love the beverly hills in the
00:49:12beginning they were all like princesses you know they had so much and their houses were fabulous
00:49:19each franchise tells a different story so the real housewives of beverly hills is really the story of
00:49:25women that work within or of close proximity to the entertainment industry two of the lead cast
00:49:32members were sisters who had been child actors you have camille grammar who was the wife of kelsey
00:49:38grammar but taylor and russell armstrong didn't seem to have any connection to the entertainment industry
00:49:44and it just seemed like they were a fish out of water but the question i always had was why don't
00:49:53you get on the show taylor was displaying all the trappings of wealth on the show all the houses the
00:50:01clothes the purses everything taylor had a quarter million dollar ring she wears very expensive clothing
00:50:08i mean their house oh my god their house was enormous they seemed like they had money and taylor drew
00:50:16a 60 000 birthday party for their daughter come and look at all your flower arrangements it's hard for
00:50:22me to see russ pan a 60 000 birthday party for kennedy do you have your birthday that scene shows me
00:50:31this is a party for a taylor not kennedy what's the matter it's not a good day that episode her daughter
00:50:37didn't seem interested in at all and it was more for the adults
00:50:44she's making herself the center of attention i mean and who gets up on top of the table and puts a hat
00:50:49on unless you're in college it almost was like too i mean not almost it was too much it's coming off very
00:50:59showy and not real in reality there's something behind the scenes that isn't quite that clean
00:51:05it is the darkest timeline that you can possibly enter in the real housewives franchise i think
00:51:15i used to represent a company that russell was involved in there was a significant dispute
00:51:22and it ended up in these really disgruntled shareholders
00:51:26and the principal of the company knew of three thousand dollar birthday parties for uh their
00:51:33children and tales of expensive jewelry and so we did a deep dive and did a lot of research including
00:51:42some research of taylor and we decided that wait a minute this money has to be coming from somewhere
00:51:50we filed suit there were investors that were unhappy there was corporate problems investor problems
00:51:59partner problems i mean just a myriad of things that all went back to the same problem
00:52:06people see that you're using business money for lifestyle expenses
00:52:11and i'm like what are you getting out of the show and then it's like well taylor likes the show
00:52:21becoming famous she became the epitome of what you don't want your spouse to become
00:52:30if taylor hadn't become involved in housewives this would have been a problem
00:52:35people have a lot of questions about me the majority of people don't know the true story
00:52:57i feel like i have to explain a lot about the russell stuff
00:52:59about my life about how did i get here my earliest childhood memory it's surrounded in trauma
00:53:13because i had domestic violence in my house as a child at a very young age
00:53:18before i was taylor armstrong my birth name was channa hughes
00:53:23and every time i would hear that name it would remind me of that part of my life
00:53:27so i started going by shanna taylor which was my stepfather's name and then i moved taylor as my
00:53:32first name and then i got ford from tom ford he's my favorite designer i went to run this textile
00:53:39company in play and i first met russell armstrong at the four seasons hotel in beverly hills
00:53:47i was waiting for a friend to have dinner and he came in with a large group
00:53:52and eventually he and i started talking he was kind of like the life of the party you know had a
00:54:01sarcastic personality that would never let on that he really liked me he had two children from previous
00:54:09relationships he's from texas i saw some of that southern gentleman thing happening on our first date
00:54:18going out into the driveway and he came around and opened my door and i thought that's kind of uncommon
00:54:23in la my relationship with russell was a whirlwind and i think i moved in with him within a couple of
00:54:33months of us first starting to date russell always spent whatever i never saw him even flinch over money
00:54:40whatsoever i don't remember ever even cooking once in our house we went out every single night
00:54:49and then that same year we got married in cabo but i don't remember him asking me to marry him that's
00:54:55really interesting
00:54:59i was pregnant when we got married the fact that he was a dad perhaps gave me confidence in the kind of
00:55:09person that i thought he was at the core because he stuck around with his kids and my dad didn't
00:55:17it felt right at the time although in retrospect there were all kinds of red flags
00:55:23we were living in bel-air and people that i knew were going to the casting for the real housewives they
00:55:29were going in for interviews and my name had come up in a few people's interviews and someone reached
00:55:35out to me and i thought that well this sounds exciting and fun and interesting and russell i think
00:55:43he was really excited because he loved the spotlight he liked to be the center of attention
00:55:49i wasn't working at the time so i thought it would be an adventure when you bring cameras into your lives
00:55:56and and your families you open yourself to a lot i want to show you right now exactly what is involved in
00:56:03my ability to come to you and speak to you there's a camera operator here there's a producer inside
00:56:09the camera there's another producer out over here there's a whole setup here in order to bring this
00:56:15to you and imagine this is what's following you around in your home during your most intense moments
00:56:21in your relationship when people have asked my wife and i to bring cameras in and we're like really
00:56:27we're going to sacrifice our marriage that's what you want to do just think how many romantic
00:56:31relationships survive reality cameras there are very few i think people that are cast on the house
00:56:41i show and take it on aren't really the best with their family life or they're not that happy why would
00:56:45they do it why would you expose your families the normal life it's ups and downs there's good there's bad
00:56:50there's ugly you want everyone to see it i think it's sometime a cry for help
00:57:00this is me in a scene from real housewives of beverly hills you guys all look so handsome
00:57:09i knew that looked far too well there's that little tiny bit of jealousy
00:57:12i think the majority of people were not very aware of what was going on behind the scenes
00:57:21so this is part of the control and surveillance in relationship with russell
00:57:30so i was working in my office in the house and my printer had stopped and i climbed under my desk to
00:57:37unplug the printer and i looked up and this was hanging by this underneath my desk of course i was
00:57:47puzzled for a minute and took it out and started to listen to it and it was me just being recorded
00:57:55and my housekeepers would find recording devices all the time it got to the point where i just assumed
00:58:00that was being recorded all the time in the car talking to my friends you know i just always assumed
00:58:08he was listening well once his boys were visiting us and i had made them a pizza
00:58:19he came in the house grabbed me by the throat and put me up against the wall
00:58:25he said if you ever serve my kids a pizza without a vegetable again i'll kill you
00:58:36it's a really hard question when i hear people ask why did you stay because it's so complicated
00:58:42statistically most domestic violence victims return seven times before they finally find
00:58:49the courage to leave i questioned myself a lot thinking am i being abused
00:58:56because i would think to myself i really do have it all i have the life that i thought i always wanted
00:59:02i'm on a television show i have a nanny a house lots of friends a husband my daughter has a father
00:59:10and she goes to private school and so how can i really say oh i'm abused i'm a victim you know it
00:59:16just felt cringy to even think like that as a viewer we could kind of sense something was
00:59:22off but you just didn't know what it was i remember a very specific limo scene with russell
00:59:30and we had the cameras on and i was afraid that he was going to explode in the car because i could
00:59:37see it i could tell when he was about to boil over and i could just tell he would start to give me this
00:59:44look and i thought oh no this is going to happen and we were in a limo with cameras everywhere and
00:59:51we were pretty close to home and i was thinking just let us get home before this happens because
00:59:55he could not control himself russell and i never discussed money in the beginning i would have to
01:00:02go to the garment district all the time in l.a for my company and he didn't like that and he would
01:00:06say that's not safe but he turned it into i don't want you to have to work i want to take care of you
01:00:11all of that in the beginning sounded very much like prince charming is here and it was very easy
01:00:19to buy into the fact that this was about to be a fairy tale i had a black american express i could
01:00:27spend whatever i wanted so we had like the iconic tea party in season one when kennedy turned four
01:00:34he gave me no access to cash i had no access to bank accounts so the financial control became a huge
01:00:41part of my not being able to leave probably season one rosa would threaten me and say okay well if
01:00:50you leave you'll have no money kennedy will no longer have a nanny she won't go to private school
01:00:54you'll have no place to live i'll drag you through the court system until i completely bankrupt you and
01:01:00your family and then i'll take kennedy from you because you'll be declared an unfit mother because
01:01:04you'll have no money no resources to take care of her at a party with a friend of mine i was over at
01:01:11her house she and her fiance were getting ready to get married in vegas and we were in her backyard on
01:01:17by the pool and russell keith left and they knew this this couple was very close to me and they were
01:01:25very aware of what was going on and the fiance the man said we'll help you get out of this because this
01:01:32is not okay and and we're really worried for you well russell was hiding around the side of the house
01:01:40and heard everything he didn't actually leave and he came flying into the backyard he threw me in the
01:01:49pool he grabbed the fiance the man knocked all of his teeth out and he jumped in the pool and was
01:01:56trying to hold me under the water and i thought he was going to drown me
01:02:05what always stood out for me on taylor is that there was hints of domestic violence and it was my
01:02:13sense that that made her appear superficial and somewhat robotic and shut down but people missed
01:02:21that part and actually participated in the abuse both other housewives and the public
01:02:30beverly hills word travels fast you know beverly hills is a small town and it was pretty well known
01:02:35that i had marital problems but i wasn't ready for my abuse to be outed on television
01:02:44in season one of beverly hills camille said because we don't say that he hits you we don't say he broke
01:02:52your jaw and i remember looking at my producer across the room in just like a blank stare thinking oh no
01:03:03like it's out and i can't put this back camille had outed the fact that i was being abused and i was
01:03:13saying you have no idea what you've done to me that he's threatened to kill me before
01:03:19and i don't know what's going to happen but something big is going to happen one way or another
01:03:24before the episode ever aired where camille had outed the fact that i was being abused it's my 40th birthday
01:03:38we checked into the four seasons where we met and he gave me like eight pairs of my favorite shoes
01:03:49and a really long card and it was all about how he knew he hadn't been a good husband and that things
01:03:55were going to change and that today was going to mark this new beginning for us
01:03:59that night after my birthday party we were laying in bed and he said something to the effect of i know
01:04:08that you slept with the chippendales when you were in vegas
01:04:10i had just went to vegas for lisa vanderpump's daughter's bachelorette party and they filmed us
01:04:19for housewives and i was like what are you talking about and he just proceeded to push and push and he
01:04:28would not let up and i was just like please just let me go to sleep it was my birthday and he raised up
01:04:35up leaned over like this punched me he fractured my orbital floor and so i went to see the doctor
01:04:53and russell went with me and the doctor said what happened and russell had told me to tell him that
01:05:00kennedy kicked me in the face when i was pushing her on the swing and i told the doctor that he goes
01:05:07were you pushing her from the front of us and i knew the doctor didn't believe for one minute what i
01:05:12was saying and then the doctor said well you know i've only seen this happen one other time
01:05:17and it was a police officer who during an arrest got punched in the face
01:05:23and he just let it lie right there and of course i couldn't say anything
01:05:31there was a moment she came on camera with a black eye and it just like it was so horrible
01:05:39everything changed after my eye it took something that dramatic for me to hear from a doctor that i had
01:05:46every constructive surgery that i finally said i'm being abused
01:05:50i filed for divorce i had him move out to a friend's house i learned at some point after the
01:06:00lawsuit was filed that russell was not staying with taylor there was some friction that had boiled up
01:06:09the second season of the real housewives of beverly hills had already been filmed
01:06:13but before it aired there were also rumors about their relationship
01:06:24and i fear that being on television and being sort of publicly scrutinized really impacted russell august of
01:06:322011. we talked and he just said everybody's piling on
01:06:47i could feel the pressure he was under
01:06:48i was supposed to have a meeting with russell at around one because he was terrified of the
01:07:01legal ramifications of what he had done and my abuse being outed and i went to his office and the
01:07:07lights were off and his door was closed and he wasn't there and no one had seen him
01:07:13and so i started calling his phone over and over and over no answer and i started just getting a weird
01:07:20feeling it just was eating away at me and so i decided to go over to the house where he was staying
01:07:28and i called one of my friends whose husband was a championship kickboxer to go with me to protect me
01:07:35and we went there and we went up to the window and he put his fingers underneath there and just
01:07:44pried it open and it was into russell's bathroom and there was a big sunken tub and once we got it
01:07:51open you could see him hanging my friend's husband was on the phone with 9-1-1
01:08:00please please come as soon as possible i ran into the street outside the house come come here taylor
01:08:10come here taylor it's all right it's all right it's all right it's all right my friend just hanging
01:08:14himself do you understand come over here right now stop asking questions and come here over here right
01:08:19now and all of a sudden i realized my daughter and my assistant were in the car right out front
01:08:26i can't i can't let her see any of this happening and she said to my assistant kennedy said did my
01:08:35daddy do something stupid do you think he's beyond any help no there's nothing you can do
01:08:51there were a myriad of things that he was very concerned about
01:08:53but i never thought he would kill himself suicide never crossed my mind
01:09:03today i'm going to meet with taylor armstrong taylor armstrong i had interviewed her
01:09:08not long after her husband's suicide for my hln program
01:09:16she was clearly traumatized by what had happened so i was gentle i didn't really learn anything
01:09:21taylor hi so good to see you great to see you so now i'd like to really get into it
01:09:30you have been through a lot my goodness even when i just say that i could see it in your eyes that it's
01:09:37still with you let's talk about it when did this happen in relation to you filming housewives
01:09:44we were filming so we were right toward the end of the season and had you finished filming we had
01:09:50not did this all happen in front of cameras i had to not film because i had the eye surgery and then
01:09:57after i had the surgery we filmed the finale and everyone was very aware of what had happened it was
01:10:04also one of the first time there'd been a serious consequence on a reality program is there anything
01:10:09about being some in front of reality cameras that makes this kind of thing apt to happen or is it
01:10:14unrelated i question that as well um people have asked me why would you do a reality show when you
01:10:21know that you have abuse going on in your life and i've reflected on that and at the time i didn't
01:10:28consciously think about it but maybe in a way i felt like if the cameras were there i was going to get
01:10:34the good version of him definitely there's a component of questioning yourself whether you're
01:10:41being abused or not because he would convince me that it was my fault but also that the way he would
01:10:46just come out of left field with things and accuse me of things that were so unbelievable that had no
01:10:53basis in fact was so confusing to me and i still look back at moments and think where did he ever come
01:10:59up with that was a lot of his gaslighting about cheating yes or about relationships prior to him
01:11:07well to that point you said he was in the office all the time so did you think or do you wonder now
01:11:12was he cheating yeah i never really thought about that about him having another relationship
01:11:19i i wanted so badly for kennedy to have a dad and a family and to have a picture-perfect life
01:11:28and that was part of definitely a big part of the staying and i wish i would have been brave enough
01:11:37to leave her for sure for her and shame for me not being stronger i don't see how anybody could call you
01:11:49less than strong you survived a lot thank you talk to us about his suicide i never would have thought
01:12:02he would have done something i just wish i he's the last person i ever thought would take his own life
01:12:09did you ever worry that something um suspicious had happened to him
01:12:13i didn't in the beginning but there were some things that were a little suspect around it
01:12:22i had to hire a law firm to look for his assets because i had no access to bank accounts or anything
01:12:29and we had an offshore asset protection trust in the cook islands that he had told me had 12 million
01:12:34dollars in it so i hired a law firm to go and try to find the bank accounts and they were all empty
01:12:42everything was gone and they finally got into the cook island trust and that was empty too
01:12:48there ended up being like 30 plus bank accounts and they were all empty then something very strange
01:12:57happened the next day after the suicide he had a partner that he did business with
01:13:07and the wife of this gentleman came in you know in hysterics basically and saying oh my god you know
01:13:14she had heard the news and she said oh my god russell armstrong killed himself and he didn't say what
01:13:21or when where what like a normal that would be my reaction if someone told me someone i know had killed
01:13:27themselves and he didn't say anything like that and he just got up as he was walking away she said
01:13:34do you think it was the show and he said it wasn't the show
01:13:41and he left the house and drove to an area very close to where russell
01:13:46died and shot himself in the head
01:13:48so on august 16th 2011 russell was found hanging that was at a friend's house on mulholland drive
01:14:10but then the next day alan shram who was founder of a hedge fund also drove to mulholland drive and
01:14:16presumably shot himself outside his car and according to tmz both of them were linked to
01:14:23an elite investor club there were so many rumors about whether taylor's husband was tied with that
01:14:30death that's just really really weird so either it's something fishy or they really had something
01:14:39that buried deep that they were scared of and was there anything otherwise suspicious about this man
01:14:52the other man that killed himself no i didn't even realize they had that many dealings together we had
01:14:57had a couple of dinners with them but other than that i didn't know that they were that in partnership
01:15:03i don't know what would have led them both to make that decision or could somebody have done that
01:15:10to them set them up i've definitely thought about that whether it could have been you take your own
01:15:17life or we're going to take the life of your family you're shaking even now thinking about it
01:15:23i just feel like there must have been more going on obviously behind the scenes than i was aware of
01:15:28that i read the autopsy report and there were aspects of the suicide that are still strange
01:15:39no alcohol in the system somebody like him i i would expect him to leave a letter but there were
01:15:45aspects that sounded like suicide motivation for suicide and i believe it could be a suicide
01:15:52i called the investigating officer just because his mom and sister and dad had so many questions
01:16:04and he went through the details and why it didn't seem like a murder
01:16:13i was sick about what happened to russell it bothered me if you look at the time connection
01:16:21between filing of the lawsuit and russell's passing you know you're going to see several weeks maybe 10 12
01:16:29days that doesn't tell the whole story we effectively served russell and within
01:16:4248 hours i'd heard he committed suicide it's hard for me to not assume that there's a cause and effect
01:16:54there is that the straw is that the straw that pushed russell over i don't know no one will ever know the
01:17:01answer but certainly i thought about that you and i raised a lot of weird questions just because we
01:17:14have a lot of question marks over our head they're strictly speculation right we can also take it the
01:17:21other direction and say he was ashamed he was about to face fraud he was about to be publicly outed for
01:17:30being an abuser he was somebody that could easily commit suicide do you agree
01:17:35i want you to know you're so much better than when i last spoke to you every time i see you you're
01:17:43better thank you i mean you should feel really good about that it's a lot so thank you so much
01:17:50congratulations on everything you're doing and uh it's a pleasure to see you good to see
01:17:53my pleasure to see you doing so well thank you so much so the second season of the real housewives
01:18:01of beverly hills had already been filmed at the time of russell's death people wondered were they
01:18:08actually going to show the buildup and the suicide on the television program
01:18:15i think they wisely elected not to do that but they did certainly document or follow the housewives
01:18:21in the aftermath of the suicide i never saw any sign of it i thought that they handled it very
01:18:28gracefully but also kind of crazy that like a producer probably was like okay girls we're gonna
01:18:36get together and we're gonna talk about suicide that just like felt just really not icky but it
01:18:44just was like very strange and taylor still you know was on the show picking up this mess
01:18:51that was left it was only in the years after that we really learned more about what russell was
01:18:59doing to the people that had been in his life and had worked with him i think this was really kind
01:19:05of the first time that you saw a story of this kind play out on a show and i think also the fact
01:19:11that it happened in the most unexpected place you don't believe that bad things can happen to beautiful
01:19:19wealthy people as the housewives franchises move along we've seen table flips we've seen hair
01:19:28pulling we've seen domestic abuse we've seen a surprising number of these women have been
01:19:34involved in illegal activity you have to wonder why they end up selecting people who are prone to
01:19:40criminality but there is sort of an understanding that the fans were demanding it but not directly
01:19:47saying it when the orange county housewives the first franchise of the housewife franchise showed
01:19:55up it was really about women with money it wasn't drama then it changed and really the conceit it was
01:20:03well look their relationships aren't great they have lots of money but they're really not that happy
01:20:07as there was more and more conflict more and more drama you see the ratings start to increase oh just
01:20:15chills water cooler sensation they say right all i'm talking about jirardi is about to be sued for
01:20:20racketeering you guys that this is and if a housewife has a criminal background for a real housewife
01:20:25producer they're probably thinking this is someone who has lived quite a life and ultimately that's what
01:20:30people want to watch i quit the show after five seasons and i've had enough my kids are over it
01:20:43it was starting to affect them in school and i was done i wanted it to be a learning show you know teach
01:20:51people something because you know we were all very successful i didn't want it to be about drunks falling
01:20:57and chipping and breaking their teeth i was on for two seasons when i was going through when my girl's
01:21:06dad died i'm like well i can't film so i mean it was a choice i made for my girls but let me tell you
01:21:11most people that do these shows they're not happy there's a reason they're doing it they're doing it
01:21:15because they're missing some too what do you think that the production company or network gravitated towards
01:21:22two i think that there were rumblings going through the casting about my marriage and that that was
01:21:32probably attractive for the drama after the suicide i did another season and i had to get away so i went to
01:21:43vale colorado and i put kennedy in a little school or nobody really knew us and i just spent time trying
01:21:49to get back to some form of sanity in the mountains it's normal in television production to always be
01:21:59concerned with how do we outdo ourselves next season the question in a housewives franchise is what does
01:22:05that mean did any of this happen while the show was there and i think viewers and the producers are
01:22:10always trying to figure out where that line is i'm not guilty of any of these what could possibly be
01:22:15bigger that's not also terribly dangerous and destructive and my fundamental response to anyone
01:22:25out there that thinks drama is a good idea so do you love me or hate me be careful what you wish for
01:22:41it's a good idea so do you love me or hate me or hate me or hate me or hate me or hate me or hate me
01:22:46the von eric's were gods they are just the blueprint of what wrestling should be but with that came
01:22:53tragedy the movie says it's inspired by a true story but it is not the full story