Catch up on all the latest new from across Kent with Oliver Leader, joined by Louwella Prenter, the Portfolio Holder for Housing and Homelessness at Medway Council and Allison Sweetman, the Green ward councillor for Barming Heath and Teston at Maidstone Borough Council.
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TVTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to The Kemp Politics Show live here on KMT.
00:29The show that gets Kent's politicians talking. I'm Oliver, Leader of the Saks and today we're doing something a little bit different.
00:38Because tomorrow is International Women's Day and I think it's a good chance for us to take stock of our politics here in the county.
00:45Whether or not our councils have achieved gender parity. Whether or not we have policies in place to empower our women and girls.
00:53Because according to the UN Women UK, a girl born right here in Kent today would have to wait nearly 40 years before we even begin to see the same number of female MPs as men in Parliament.
01:07So how do we go about fixing this? And does change start at home?
01:11Well, to make sense of this all, I'm joined by Louella Prenz of the Portfolio Holder for Housing and Homelessness at Medway Council.
01:18And Alison Sweetman, the Green Ward Councillor for Balmingheath and Teston at Maystone Borough Council.
01:24But delve a little more into this because local councils across the country are particularly male dominated.
01:33As of August 2022, 36 of our elected councillors were women and no council has yet achieved gender parity at a regional level.
01:41In fact, in the southeast, we're below the average.
01:44So joining me is Louella and Alison.
01:47I just want to ask both of you, because you are both women in male dominated councils.
01:52What's been your experience of this? Let's go to you first, Louella.
01:56My experience in Medway is as a Labour and co-operative councillor, our group is actually 50-50.
02:04We have 16 female councillors amongst our group at the moment.
02:08That has only added one more independent councillor, makes up the numbers of females representing our constituencies in the area.
02:17Of 59, only 17 are female.
02:21So although the Labour and co-operative group have quite good representation, the wider group of councillors are not so well represented amongst women.
02:30Because Labour and the Green Party actually have the highest representation of all the parties.
02:34It's not 50-50, but it is close.
02:36Alison, what is your experience at Maystone Borough Council?
02:40Firstly, with the Green Party and Maystone Borough Council, we have the Green Party and Liberal as the lead.
02:50The Green Party councillors, as ward councillors, we actually have six women and four males, I believe.
02:59But overall, I mean, I've done something today, I looked and in Maystone Borough Council, we have 19 women compared to 30 men.
03:07And with KCC Council, there are 60 male councillors compared to 21 females.
03:14So yes, there is a divide there.
03:18And it's quite, I think it's quite important that women are encouraged to be part of councils to have a voice, to voice women for women.
03:32It's that tricky thing, right? Because there are only three councils in Kent that have more than 40% representation.
03:38That's Fanet, Sevenoaks and Folkestone and Hyde.
03:41Everyone else is below 40% in terms of their representation.
03:44Obviously, it doesn't really apply to different political groups.
03:48Some may have more or less, but those are still the numbers at the end of the day.
03:52I'm kind of curious, why do you think there are such barriers to women in Kent getting into local government and even further into political careers?
04:01Why do you think there are these structural barriers in politics?
04:04Traditionally, I can speak for myself.
04:07I mean, I've been a party member for a long time, but I stayed out of going to be elected to stand as a candidate.
04:19I've been a paper candidate a few times, but I didn't stand when my children were younger and I felt I wanted to be around.
04:27Now, that's no pressure from my husband or anyone else to be around because I know I would have been supported.
04:35I think a lot of council meetings are in the evenings, so I wanted to make sure I was there for them.
04:41I think that might be a barrier to some women.
04:44I waited until they were older and I had more time in the evenings and at weekends to be able to do casework.
04:50You do have to put the work in to represent your residents.
04:54Being a councillor is hard work. I think you both attest to that.
04:57Alison, you're a relatively recent councillor. You were elected last year, if I believe correctly.
05:03I'm curious, how have you found it? Why didn't you go to politics before? Was it due to these structural issues?
05:09Well, it's quite interesting how I became an accidental into politics.
05:14It was all to do with a local woodland area that I was getting involved in that we're trying to protect.
05:21With that, I became familiar with the Green Party because they were championing it.
05:26I was asked to be a councillor and I'm like, to stand, and I'm thinking, why me?
05:32But now I understand because it's having an experience and life experience and also being able to relate to the people within your community.
05:41I got voted for, which I am so appreciative of and quite shocked.
05:46All I would like to do is to represent the community, my ward, and be able to help them out.
05:54The other thing is I can understand the trouble is, as Lou was saying, it is difficult if you're a working mother and you want to take up and become a councillor as well
06:09because you've got to juggle childcare and with local council meetings, we are held in the evenings.
06:17KCC council meetings are mainly in the day, so that restricts the people that it would attract because of work commitments and everything.
06:30Yeah, I'm really pleased. I'm really pleased to be a councillor and it's a great honour to be able to represent my ward.
06:41Do you think it's a vicious cycle that because there's been so many men in political positions for so long, they structure the day around what works best for them?
06:50These daytime meetings, these inconvenient timings, this lack of virtual access sometimes to meetings is potentially because of these long-standing structural issues.
07:01Do you think there needs to be more done to tackle that as well?
07:04I think fundamentally, the officers that are working in the council, they need to be around as well.
07:11There's a whole mixture of reasons why council meetings go on during the day, depending on who's needed at those meetings.
07:18It's not just council employees and councillors, there are other companies and other services that need to be engaged.
07:25The timing of the meetings can be flexible, I think. It can be more flexible to accommodate.
07:31I feel accommodated as someone who works as well, to be able to combine my meetings during the day as well as evening meetings.
07:39And of course, all the casework, as I said earlier, there's a lot to take into account.
07:44Especially as a portfolio holder as well.
07:46And I'm kind of wondering as well, because we spoke to a lot of female-led businesses yesterday,
07:51and one of the things that they said was that they don't always feel that they're taken seriously in the same way that a male-led business might be.
07:59Do you sometimes feel that you want to be taken seriously by other politicians within the council, or by constituents sometimes?
08:06Is there a real big fear sometimes that you don't feel your voice is necessarily being heard in the way it should be?
08:11Historically, in politics, women, up until the suffragettes, women weren't even allowed to vote.
08:21So women have had to fight hard to find their way in politics.
08:25And they're obviously going to struggle, they would have struggled to be able to prove themselves to be just as capable as a man in that job.
08:35There is no reason why a woman can't be as capable, because you've still got the same skills, you know, the life skills.
08:41And you still see the same things and you're still dealing with the same people.
08:45Maybe a female can be a bit more empathetic to a lot of situations.
08:50I haven't found a problem within Maidstone Borough Council, the fact that I'm female.
08:56What Lou was saying about the meetings and everything, I wonder whether women see that as a challenge,
09:05because they aren't encouraged to be part of it and work out flexibilities around how to manage it.
09:15In terms of Parliament, if you look, 1918 was the first time an MP was elected a female MP.
09:22Now we've got 293, I think.
09:26The highest number.
09:27Yeah, the highest number, over 40% I think, represents a female.
09:31But that's not really representative of the population, so it needs to grow and grow.
09:37We need more female MPs for definite.
09:40I mean, if you look at our local MP here, where we are in Gillingham and Raynham, Nusharba Khan,
09:45she's the first female MP in Gillingham and Raynham elected, but that's only 667 ever elected.
09:52So over 100 years, if you look at it in that term, we haven't come along that far, although we've come along a long way.
09:59And I'm kind of wondering as well, do you think it's because,
10:02because you mentioned a lack of these strong female MPs, this kind of political legacy of role models, perhaps,
10:08that men do have when it comes to politics.
10:11Do you think that plays an issue as well, that because that isn't the representation that we want to see in the political landscape,
10:19that many people feel that it's not an opportunity that they could potentially go into?
10:23Do you think we need to kind of create those role models in some ways?
10:26I think we've got a lot of good female role models.
10:28If you look at the government now, we have a significant number of female role models.
10:33And for the young girls and women coming up through the ages that we followed on through role models, they will do the same.
10:42If you think significant impacts on legislation over the years that have benefited women, they've been from female MPs.
10:50So the more we get, the more opportunities there are for equality.
10:55Alison, are you hopeful about this, that we'll continue to see a rise in the female political figures,
11:01or are you worried that we could potentially regress at some point?
11:04I'm hopeful that we can rise in female and political figures.
11:07I'd also like to see a younger generation, younger females in there, along with younger males as well,
11:13to represent all ages and to make sure there's a good representation for females, most definitely.
11:19Well, I think we have to go to a short break now. Thanks for joining me for this part.
11:23We'll be back after the break with some more issues relating to International Women's Day, including violence against women
11:30and what the next steps can be to tackle those structural inequalities that we heard about just then,
11:36as well as hearing what some of the most big challenges people in Rochester are experiencing.
11:42See you in a few minutes.
15:21Council and Alison Sweetman, the Green Ward Councillor for Balmingheath and Teston at
15:25Maidstone Borough Council. Now the MPC estimates at least 1 in 12 women in England and Wales
15:32would be a victim of violence against women every year. That's 2 million women. So that
15:37can impact women and girls of any age, with 75% aged between 12 and 21 having experienced
15:43public sexual harassment on the streets from men and boys. It's a big issue here in the
15:49county, so what can we do to address this? Well, still joining me is Llewella and Alison
15:55and it is something that we see a lot of, particularly in the North Kent area. County
15:59investigations have shown thousands of reports of domestic violence, for example. I was kind
16:05of wondering, why do you think it's still so widespread in the present day when we have
16:12so much action around women's rights and these issues of violence against women?
16:18I think we're having a bit of an aggression. You've got certain influencers on social
16:24media self-proclaiming as misogynists, using what I would say dangerous language that is
16:33negative towards women and girls. And that is influencing young men, boys and young men.
16:40So all the time that's allowed to happen, and it should be stopped, there's no question
16:45about that. Things could progress and I just don't want to see the regression, the regressive
16:52language going backwards. And it is a big fear and Redwood Council is luckily white
16:57ribbon accredited, which means it does work on action plans surrounding domestic abuse
17:02and violence against women. But not all councils in Kent and the country are white ribbon accredited.
17:09Alison, are you worried that our approach to tackling violence against women is sporadic,
17:15kind of based on certain councils? There might be kind of black spots around Kent, perhaps?
17:19Well, at Maidstone in November, a motion was put forward to tackle violence against women
17:27in Maidstone and for the white ribbon accreditation, because we recognise that this is not good
17:35in this day and age. Young men, they look at adults for their role models and it's trying
17:43to address that and get them to understand how to appropriately treat females. And also
17:54females to understanding what a proper relationship is, because I know we talk about these coercive
18:01relationships and we think about them as adults, but young girls, teenagers, they are finding
18:07themselves in these relationships where they are having boyfriends that are not treating
18:12them right, abusing them or controlling them. And it's trying to find a way of educating
18:19both sides of what is an appropriate relationship, rather than, like Lou says, the social media,
18:26the TikTok, and maybe some other undesirable things that people watch on the internet.
18:31Because it is that sort of thing where you often hear the word toxic relationship, but
18:36you've really described as an abusive relationship. I think we all know people in our lives that
18:42have experienced harassment and abuse. It's something that is so widespread. I'm kind
18:47of wondering, from council perspectives, how can local government help tackle this issue?
18:53How can other government help address this going forward?
18:57We've had street stalls in our high streets. I can talk from Gillingham, my ward, up in
19:04the high street there where we've spoken to women and girls. We've run a survey asking
19:10questions and finding out how people are feeling. And on the back of that, Kent Police supported
19:17us by having an open day on the high street. Lots of information, lots of freebie giveaways
19:30for girls and women, anyone who wanted to alert any sort of danger. But the main thing
19:36I think we can do is continue, like Alison said, this message of education. Telling girls
19:42that's not acceptable. Letting them know, actually, why am I putting up with this? And
19:47that's from a young age. And then hopefully that will go through their life with them,
19:51feeling of self-worth and knowing that they shouldn't accept it.
19:54As we can see, the big KCC campaign, Don't Disrespect at the moment, you can see on buses
19:58actually around Maidstone and Medway, it's a county-wide message. And it's something
20:04I wonder, because the government reiterated their stance that they want to halve violence
20:09against women and girls in a decade. I'm wondering, what do you both make of that?
20:14Do you think that is an achievable goal?
20:17In Maidstone, a recent budget review, money is being allocated to the Citizens' Assembly.
20:25And that is a place where it's more for the public to get together. So people can come
20:31together that have experienced, or have experiences, so they can work with them. And then they
20:36can work out how to tackle it from people that know. So work out a way to tackle it
20:43from there. And also, yes, education, maybe more into schools. But sometimes I worry because
20:51females get into, young girls and women, they get into these situations. But they're made
20:56to feel it's their fault. And they feel so guilty. And they find it difficult to talk
21:02about because they feel they've got into this situation. And then they must be to blame.
21:07But they're not to blame. Because the human mind is so sensitive. And it's a suggestion.
21:13If you've got a male partner that's working on it, and working on it, and dragging you
21:17down, and taking away your self-worth, and telling you that things are wrong, telling
21:22you that it's wrong, telling you that it's your fault, it's going to be hard to change
21:29the way. You really need to have someone to talk to. You need that support.
21:34Clearly, attitudes need to change on this. I'm sure we'll cover this again on KNTV soon.
21:39You can find anything we've discussed here at the National Domestic Abuse Helpline is
21:430808 200 0247. But now, there is a theme for this year's International Women's Day, despite
21:51some of the doom and gloom. And that's to accelerate action. Action to remove structural
21:56and economic inequalities. Action to remove discrimination. Action to celebrate the achievements
22:02of women. So what are some of the areas we should see to make a difference in? We asked
22:06those in the streets of Rochester what some of their challenges have been in the hopes
22:09of finding out.
22:10I think there is a lot of bias towards men, unfortunately, still in our society.
22:17I think women still really struggle with trying to do it all. So I work, and just trying to
22:24juggle childcare, work. Everything is still expected of you. You're expected to be in
22:30ten different places at once.
22:31Yeah, I think in my lifetime we've had more space for women, but I mean, there are still
22:37times where men will come up and try and take the spotlight from them. I think that's prevalent
22:41everywhere.
22:42They're sort of made to feel like they should be able to do that. They're sort of told they
22:45can't, but you should be able to do it, which is a tricky thing to juggle, I think.
22:51I think there's a bit of an expectation for us to be perfect.
22:55A lot of attitudes there that are quite interesting, given that it is this idea that men will often
23:02take the spotlight, will often overpower women's voices. And I was kind of wondering, how do
23:07we empower women to seize that kind of opportunity to make their voices heard?
23:15I think education all the way is literally educating young women, girls, your voice is
23:22important. What you have to say is of value. And I know that can be hard, because you're
23:27hearing from men saying, not all men obviously, but men saying, actually, we don't want to
23:33listen to you. The condescending language, labelling women. Only last week our opposition
23:39group, for example, all men, decided to say that although we were a diverse group, it
23:45didn't necessarily mean we were as capable. So it's that sort of thing, filling people's
23:51self-doubt. And women and girls need to know, don't doubt yourself. This is what you have
23:57to say is important. You are able to reach the heights you want to reach.
24:01But the conservative group aren't here to defend themselves on that one. But Alison,
24:06what would you say to your younger self about some of these things? What message would you
24:10give to...
24:11My younger self? Oh, I'm getting old now. Obviously, you know, back when I was younger,
24:18it was very much jobs were male, you know, certain careers were male dominated. And when
24:26you did your careers at school, it was this, you know, secretaries, nursing for the females,
24:31and the males, you know, had the more executive jobs. And to think of a woman sort of being
24:39in any sort of managerial position, hire, isn't something that was... that was rare.
24:46As we've gone on, things have changed more so, but women still have to struggle. And
24:51I think it's just about, you know, making younger women realise that they can achieve,
24:57they can achieve. I mean, there's plenty of females out there that have proved it. There's
25:00plenty of females out there that have gone into the male world and done the male jobs
25:04and gone to the armies and in the police and, you know, them sort of jobs, and they've made
25:10a success, really.
25:12And is that thing where it's still going on today, 2022-2023, Kent County Council's gender
25:17pay gap was 13.8%, Melbourne Council's 6.91%. What's the next steps, do you think, to kind
25:26of tackling these inequalities? Where do we go from here to accelerate this action?
25:31Again, through legislation, electing MPs and councillors to have gender parity. Like you
25:38said earlier, wait until 2158 until we reach our gender parity that we're aiming for. That's
25:45like five generations away. We've got to make it happen earlier. And to do that, we need
25:50more women representatives everywhere.
25:54Very quickly, Alison.
25:55To be fair, in 2025, having a gender pay gap between male and female is not really
26:03very right. For women that are doing the same job as a man, it shouldn't be happening. It
26:09should be equal.
26:11Well, I thought, just before we go, I want to kind of ask you a nice question to end
26:16on. Are there any women that inspire you in particular, just very quickly?
26:21My mother.
26:22Yeah, my mum.
26:24I think we can all agree on that one. I think we can leave it there. Thank you both for
26:28coming in today. It's really great to talk about these issues, which we'll be continuing
26:31to talk about over the next few weeks. It isn't just something that's for one day. It
26:36is for every day. You've been watching the Kent Politics Show live here on KMTV. We'll
26:40be back the next week with more news and views from across the county. But for now, from
26:45me, goodbye.