The Dallas Mavericks are sending Luka Doncic, Maxi Kleber, and Markieff Morris to the Los Angeles Lakers in exchange for Anthony Davis, Max Christie, and a 2029 first-round pick, according to sources from Shams Charania. The blockbuster trade is part of a three-team deal involving the Utah Jazz.
The Garden Report's John Zannis, Sherrod Blakely, Bobby Manning and the Boston Globe's Gary Washburn share their reactions and analysis of this massive trade and its potential impact on the league.
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The Garden Report's John Zannis, Sherrod Blakely, Bobby Manning and the Boston Globe's Gary Washburn share their reactions and analysis of this massive trade and its potential impact on the league.
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00:00:00♪♪
00:00:03Hardhat's all about showing up to play hard,
00:00:05doing what it takes to win.
00:00:06If you want a cement legacy, win another.
00:00:08He's your third center.
00:00:10You don't want to pump him up too much,
00:00:12but it's hard not to.
00:00:13This is maybe the most I've ever agreed with you.
00:00:15♪♪
00:00:21What's going on, everybody?
00:00:22Welcome into an emergency live Garden Report
00:00:26slash Big 3 podcast crossover with A. Sherrod Blakely
00:00:31and a rare guest on the Garden Report,
00:00:33Gary Washburn, jumping in here.
00:00:35And he couldn't, he needed an outlet
00:00:38to get his thoughts out to the world
00:00:41and tell people what he thinks of this trade,
00:00:44which, honestly, not only was one of the most shocking trades
00:00:47in any sport I can remember in my lifetime,
00:00:50but just how it happened at night on a Saturday night
00:00:55when the entire world was still like,
00:00:57yeah, this is a joke, right?
00:00:59Like, what is it?
00:01:00Right after the Lakers game.
00:01:02We all thought we were getting punked.
00:01:04Everybody thought they were absolutely getting punked.
00:01:07So we're going to get all sorts of reaction,
00:01:09see if there's any new developing opinions,
00:01:12new pieces of information trickling out a little bit today,
00:01:15but nothing that quite can make sense of this deal.
00:01:18And you see it on the screen right now.
00:01:19The Mavericks trade, a generational talent,
00:01:23albeit one with some flaws and some concerns.
00:01:26Some baggage.
00:01:27Luka Doncic and some stuff,
00:01:29some other stuff to the Lakers for Anthony Davis,
00:01:33Max Christie, and a first round pick 2029.
00:01:37Before we get started, we'll tell you quickly
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00:01:53We also want to let you know that the show
00:01:55is brought to you by GameTime.
00:01:57Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime.
00:01:59Download that app, create an account,
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00:02:04Terms do apply.
00:02:05What time is it?
00:02:06Game time.
00:02:07Now let's get back to the story
00:02:10and what in the wide, wide world of sports is going on here.
00:02:13We'll start with Gary Washburn
00:02:15because he doesn't often get a chance
00:02:16to share his opinion with us on the Garden Report.
00:02:19And Gary, what the, just your initial reaction
00:02:22and where you are with it now today
00:02:24after letting it marinate for a little bit.
00:02:27Yeah, I couldn't believe it, to be honest.
00:02:29I went to bed early before the Laker game ended
00:02:33and Sherrod will love this.
00:02:36I checked, I got up in the morning
00:02:38to check the final score of Syracuse Cal basketball.
00:02:41Yeah.
00:02:42Because Cal was down 17 at halftime
00:02:45and I was like, Christ, they're just another clunker.
00:02:50And then I looked and saw the alerts for the trade
00:02:53and I thought I was dreaming.
00:02:54I thought like, what is going on?
00:02:56Like, what, wait a minute.
00:02:57I know I'm never going to go to sleep early
00:03:00on a Saturday night again.
00:03:01I know that.
00:03:02And I'm stunned, shocked like everybody else.
00:03:07This whole thing, well, Luka's not in shape
00:03:10and man, you don't trade a generational talent
00:03:14other than for another generational talent.
00:03:16You don't trade Luka unless you're getting SGA,
00:03:20Tatum, Wimby back.
00:03:23Anthony Davis, you're talking about a guy
00:03:25who like misses games.
00:03:28Like there's a reason why he's your nickname street clothes.
00:03:33So to me, I'm just stunned.
00:03:35Obviously they had been fed up with Luka,
00:03:39maybe in his lack of conditioning.
00:03:42I mean, to me, I always think Luka
00:03:45is not in the greatest of shape,
00:03:46but there's just certain athletes, guys,
00:03:48that they're just never going to be in the great.
00:03:51Yoke is just never going to be cut.
00:03:53You know, like there's just certain guys
00:03:55who just make it work.
00:03:58Yeah, like, and so to me, I just put Luka in that category
00:04:03where all these cab injuries are by-product
00:04:05of not being in great shape.
00:04:07I mean, the guy played for Slovenia in the Olympics
00:04:10a couple of years ago.
00:04:12He played, I was like, I don't know.
00:04:13It just seems really a drastic move to say,
00:04:18no, we won't get you like a mandated personal trainer
00:04:21and a chef, we're just going to trade you
00:04:23for a 31, about to be 32 year old guy
00:04:26who has a history of missing a lot of games.
00:04:29And we're going to go forward and try to win a chip.
00:04:31Maybe the way the Mavericks played
00:04:34without Luka over the last,
00:04:35being Oklahoma City three times without Luka,
00:04:37maybe that was part of what tipped them off.
00:04:41But now you're relying, John, and you you'll love,
00:04:44you know, on Kyrie and Anthony Davis.
00:04:46My goodness.
00:04:47The dream, the dream is realized.
00:04:49They finally got together.
00:04:51This was 2016, I'm in.
00:04:53But 2025, I don't know.
00:04:56That is funny they're together now.
00:04:58It's funny that Danny had a hand
00:04:59in bringing Kyrie and AD together in some capacity
00:05:03because he couldn't get it done here and it happened.
00:05:06Sherrod, Bobby, and again,
00:05:07get your initial reactions here,
00:05:08but I just want to add to what Gary said.
00:05:11I mean, right.
00:05:12Out of shape people can get in shape.
00:05:1425 year olds, they're not beyond your salvation
00:05:17as far as that's concerned.
00:05:18And yeah, it's a frustrating thing.
00:05:21You know, I mean, you could put,
00:05:22you see the, you know,
00:05:23fat clause stipulations in big contracts.
00:05:25You saw Kyler Murray in the NFL get a,
00:05:27he has to do his homework clause in his contract.
00:05:29You can figure out concerns if you want to address them.
00:05:32But to me, this screams of an owner trade, not a GM trade.
00:05:37I don't think that this,
00:05:39I know the GM's out in front of it
00:05:41saying the basketball reasons behind it,
00:05:43but this screams to me of an owner saying,
00:05:44I don't want to pay this slob.
00:05:46You know, I don't like it.
00:05:47I don't, it's 350 and it's new ownership there in Dallas.
00:05:51And again, I don't know, but it's,
00:05:52I could see this being a, hey guys, get it done.
00:05:57But I also don't want to get worse.
00:05:58We're not in rebuild mode,
00:06:00get it done and do something that you can.
00:06:02And then this happens.
00:06:03So not only as a perplexing, you would trade Luca period,
00:06:06but to trade him for what they traded him for,
00:06:10which again, Anthony Davis is nice
00:06:12and a top 10 ish top 12, 15 player,
00:06:16but he's 32 and he's a big,
00:06:17and he doesn't want to play inside as much.
00:06:19And you could see his career transitioning
00:06:21into more of a jump shooter and a guy who doesn't want,
00:06:23how long is he going to be Anthony Davis?
00:06:26Not much longer.
00:06:27And Luca's not 26 years old yet.
00:06:29So again, not only the trade,
00:06:31but the return to me is stunning.
00:06:34Two things that bother me about this deal
00:06:37from the Dallas perspective.
00:06:38First and foremost, just kind of piggyback off
00:06:41Gary said earlier,
00:06:42you're talking about a generational talent.
00:06:45You don't trade those type of players
00:06:48unless you're getting a similar player in terms of impact
00:06:51or a bunch of shots at getting a generational talent.
00:06:55In other words, you gotta get at least three or four
00:06:59first round picks to me for this to even be a possible
00:07:04reality if you're Dallas.
00:07:05But the other point, John, and I think you touched on it,
00:07:07I think there is some of this.
00:07:09I think that what we're seeing now is Dallas being proactive
00:07:14and not having Jimmy Butler 2.0 happen to them,
00:07:18where you've got a player who's really good,
00:07:20but doesn't play a ton of games,
00:07:22but they want to get paid as if they play 82 games
00:07:24every year.
00:07:25And so they're going to be eligible
00:07:26for a major, major payday.
00:07:28And you got to ask yourself,
00:07:30are they worth it?
00:07:31And are you going to get basically enough return
00:07:34on that type of investment?
00:07:35And there's clear concerns that that wasn't going to happen
00:07:37with Luca.
00:07:38So you basically, you cut your losses.
00:07:40You try to get what you can while you can.
00:07:42But I still think Dallas should have been able to get more
00:07:45than just Anthony Davis and a first round pick.
00:07:47You should have been able to get at least two or three picks.
00:07:49I mean, damn, look what Utah got for freaking Rudy Gobert.
00:07:54You're trying to tell me that you can't get multiple
00:07:58first round picks out of the Lakers?
00:08:01You know, Dallas to me, again,
00:08:05it screamed as if they were desperate
00:08:07when they didn't have to be desperate
00:08:08for them to get this deal.
00:08:11Yeah, I agree with you guys that you can't trade Luca
00:08:15and that's a bad decision.
00:08:17But if you do decide you're not going to be
00:08:19in the Luca business,
00:08:20if you do decide we're moving on from this guy,
00:08:22we don't like where his health's trending.
00:08:24We don't like where his weight is trending
00:08:26and just his overall commitment to this thing.
00:08:28And there were some comments we'll get into
00:08:30from Nico Harrison about a tumultuous summer being ahead,
00:08:33which I don't understand what he was referring to,
00:08:36but he did see some problems coming on the Luca front,
00:08:39whether it was the money, whether it was the contract,
00:08:41ownership, maybe John, you mentioned that.
00:08:44I don't agree with moving on from Luca,
00:08:47but if they're saying we don't want to roll
00:08:50with this guy anymore, we don't believe in him,
00:08:52we don't trust that he's going to age well,
00:08:53all that kind of stuff,
00:08:55I do actually like Anthony Davis as a return.
00:08:58I don't really care about picks, John,
00:08:59you know that if you get two or three more picks,
00:09:02I don't know if people like this deal better,
00:09:04but to me, you're bringing in Anthony Davis
00:09:07in place of Luca, you have a solidified front court,
00:09:10you have a defense that's probably going to be twice
00:09:14or three times as good now with Davis compared to Luca.
00:09:18And this is still a guy that can get you 25, 30 points
00:09:21when he's rolling.
00:09:21And I know he's had injury issues in the past,
00:09:23I know he's about to turn 32,
00:09:25but he played most of last season,
00:09:27he's played most of this season.
00:09:29The problem in my mind is that it shortens your window
00:09:32if Luca is going to continue to evolve
00:09:34and grow into one of the best players in the league,
00:09:37if not the best player in the league.
00:09:38That's where you're really-
00:09:39He's already there, he's been there, he's been there,
00:09:41he's been there like 10 minutes after he entered the league.
00:09:45I mean, this is, he's been a top five player
00:09:47almost from the moment he stepped on a court.
00:09:49And arguably up until he got hurt this year-
00:09:52Statistically, yes.
00:09:53I do worry about the defense though, John.
00:09:56And we saw it in the finals.
00:09:57He cannot defend at a commensurate level
00:10:00that's going to win a championship.
00:10:02And once he got up against a team
00:10:03that was going to target him
00:10:04and go at him every single time,
00:10:06he looked helpless in that series.
00:10:08I mean, remember what we were saying after game three?
00:10:11So that's where I think some of your concerns start
00:10:13if you're Dallas.
00:10:14Obviously it's a money thing too,
00:10:16and the new cap and all of that leads to some trades.
00:10:18We already saw it with Carl Anthony Towns.
00:10:20Everyone wondered what they were doing at the time
00:10:22and it didn't look good.
00:10:23So this might go in that direction.
00:10:25And Luka goes on to look even better
00:10:28and have a illustrious career in LA.
00:10:30And Davis is at a point in his career where you're like,
00:10:33is he going to start to go downhill
00:10:35over the next couple of years here?
00:10:36But for this year only, they're still a contender.
00:10:38In fact, they might have a better chance
00:10:40to win the championship today than they did yesterday.
00:10:43So this is the part of basketball reaction
00:10:46and Twitter that's bugging me the most today
00:10:49is the smart basketball people telling me
00:10:52why this actually, Dallas might be better.
00:10:54It's not a basketball trade.
00:10:55It's an asset management trade.
00:10:56I get it.
00:10:57You can't trade Luka.
00:10:58It's again, I might have a $10 million summer house
00:11:02and don't really need it.
00:11:03I trade it for a nice split level in Brookline,
00:11:06send my kids to good schools.
00:11:08I spend a fraction of it on that.
00:11:11Hey, that's more sensible for me.
00:11:12I need that house.
00:11:14But I just gave away a $10 million house
00:11:16for a $2 million house.
00:11:17It doesn't make sense.
00:11:19Luka is worth much, much, much, much more.
00:11:22So if you're going to trade him,
00:11:23why not shop him?
00:11:25How did this happen?
00:11:26How do they just call the Lakers?
00:11:27And maybe I think it was reported one other team
00:11:29and say, you guys want Luka?
00:11:31Not even like, it's basically, first of all,
00:11:34whoever speaks first in a negotiation has already lost it.
00:11:37The fact that you're calling the Lakers,
00:11:39letting them know you want out of the Luka business
00:11:42puts you at a disadvantage.
00:11:43The fact that you don't call everybody else or just-
00:11:47But they didn't want it to get out, John.
00:11:49Yes, you do.
00:11:50The Mavericks are open to trading Luka Doncic.
00:11:52Oh, look at the floodgates open.
00:11:54The offer would be insane.
00:11:57Insane, so that's what's blowing my mind.
00:12:00How in the world?
00:12:01This is a Belichick trade.
00:12:03Belichick doesn't want to be bothered.
00:12:04Call somebody and says,
00:12:05hey, I'm thinking of moving off of this guy.
00:12:07What would you give me?
00:12:08Second round pick.
00:12:09That's good enough.
00:12:10Make it so.
00:12:11And everyone's like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
00:12:12You can get much more than that.
00:12:13He's like, I'm fine.
00:12:13It's just, that's good enough.
00:12:15And that's what it was.
00:12:16So, I mean, Gary, how has this happened
00:12:18that they basically are only dealing with the Lakers here?
00:12:22Yeah, it sounded like Nikko Harrison had this in mind
00:12:25and had his target player in mind, which was Anthony Davis.
00:12:28Now, to me, as I've said, you don't trade Luka.
00:12:33Like, I'm just, I'm trying to, I'm fat.
00:12:36I'm just trying to get my mind around this whole,
00:12:40this whole, like, how not durable he is.
00:12:43His games played since he started.
00:12:46Rookie year, 72.
00:12:49Second year, 61 of the 66,
00:12:52because it was a shortened year.
00:12:53Second, third year, 66 of the 72,
00:12:56because it was a shortened.
00:12:5765, 66, last year, 70.
00:13:00And this year, 22 because of the cap.
00:13:02This is not a guy who's missing 30 games a year.
00:13:05This isn't Kawhi Leonard.
00:13:08The guy averaged 34 points a game last year
00:13:10and shot 38% from three.
00:13:12It ain't his, the final, it averaged 10 assists.
00:13:15The guy, the finals is not his fault.
00:13:17The finals was P.J. Washington, Kyrie Irving,
00:13:20and no one else stepped up to help Luka.
00:13:23They didn't have the tools to win this series probably,
00:13:27but they didn't get, Luka got no help.
00:13:30Like, let's be honest.
00:13:31I mean, Luka got no help.
00:13:33And so I'm not blaming the finals on Luka.
00:13:37Like, you know, oh, he was exposed defensively.
00:13:39The Celtics won this series.
00:13:41The Celtics offensively during the finals were not great.
00:13:44They won the series with defense and the defense on Luka.
00:13:48But look at the guys that were supposed
00:13:50to help Luka out and they didn't.
00:13:52So I'm just trying to figure out
00:13:54why the hell you would shop this guy
00:13:58as opposed to doing, if you want to do something like,
00:14:01I get it, 345 or whatever he was going to get over five years
00:14:04more than Tatum, the highest contract,
00:14:07but he's a generational player.
00:14:09Like he's a international player.
00:14:12He's popular.
00:14:14His jersey sales is always in the top two or three.
00:14:18You say Luka, how many guys from one name, LeBron, Luka?
00:14:23Like, there's only very few guys that are known by one name
00:14:27and you know who they are.
00:14:28You talk to an average basketball fan and say Luka,
00:14:31they know who you're talking about.
00:14:33Like, for Dallas, you could try to squeeze a title out
00:14:37of this, but you were trading a guy who's not even 26 years old.
00:14:42It's, yeah, we're being.
00:14:44I don't get it.
00:14:45And you're right.
00:14:46They should have shopped him around
00:14:48if they were going to do that.
00:14:49And they should have gotten one of those Hershel Walker
00:14:51to the Dallas Cowboys.
00:14:54Sorry, Minnesota Vikings trades.
00:14:56If you guys remember that, look that up, Bobby.
00:14:58Like, they should have gotten the seven for one.
00:15:02Ricky Williams, take my whole draft.
00:15:04You know, yeah, absolutely.
00:15:06If that's what you're going to do, but obviously.
00:15:09Yeah, the Lakers don't have enough assets.
00:15:11Lakers don't have enough assets over the next five years
00:15:13to complete this trade, let alone what
00:15:15they have in the tail right now.
00:15:16And I like the fact that they got Max.
00:15:18I like Max Christie.
00:15:19I think he's going to be a nice prospect.
00:15:20He's not going to be a superstar, but OK,
00:15:23give us that guy, 21-year-old guy who's merging or whatever.
00:15:27But if you're Nico Harrison, I'm just astounded at the return.
00:15:36I'm astounded why you would.
00:15:37Obviously, it had to be something personal.
00:15:40He's like, I ain't calling that dude.
00:15:43That dude don't want to talk to me.
00:15:45I didn't call him.
00:15:46Like, at least you give him the respect of going, Luca,
00:15:49this is what's about to happen.
00:15:50Like, you didn't.
00:15:52I mean, to me, I don't know.
00:15:55I think it says a lot about the Mavericks organization.
00:15:59Let's see what.
00:16:00I'm sure Luca's going to love LA.
00:16:03He's going to be a darling.
00:16:04He's going to have a good time.
00:16:06I'm sure there's a Slovenian community in LA
00:16:08more than there is in Texas.
00:16:09Let's be honest.
00:16:10So he'll be comfortable.
00:16:13He'll have restaurants to eat and places to go.
00:16:16And he'll be a star.
00:16:17He'll go to the Grammys and the Oscars and all that.
00:16:20But you do not trade.
00:16:25Like, there's five guys, SGA, Tatum, Wimby, maybe
00:16:32Anthony Edwards, and the rights to Cooper flag.
00:16:35If they got the rights to Cooper flag,
00:16:37then you're like, OK, all right.
00:16:39Like, you get the number one overall pick or something
00:16:41to that effect, where it's like, we just
00:16:43want to start over.
00:16:44OK, we want to start over with a 20-year-old
00:16:47because we're tired of Luca.
00:16:48OK, you're starting over with a 32-year-old who's
00:16:51got a history of injuries, who's got a history of not playing
00:16:55hurt, who's currently out with an injury.
00:16:59Yeah, that's the issue.
00:17:00And here's the comments here from Nico Harrison.
00:17:03I understand why they'd be shocked initially,
00:17:04but I do believe we position ourselves to win now.
00:17:06I think that's where people get a little stuck
00:17:08here in this idea of winning now.
00:17:10This isn't about now.
00:17:11This is about the next 10 years.
00:17:14And that's ultimately the goal, why we're here.
00:17:16It's one of those things where it's
00:17:17my job to make tough decisions, put blah, blah, blah.
00:17:20And again, I don't fully get it.
00:17:21I want to push back on something earlier.
00:17:23And I know, Bobby, we've gotten into these conversations
00:17:25before.
00:17:27It is not saying the defense.
00:17:31I just think that this is a specious argument.
00:17:33When people try to point to defense or something
00:17:35like that to poke holes in players,
00:17:37the most transformative players in the league
00:17:40over the last few years are Luka, Nikola Jokic, Steph Curry.
00:17:45None of them are there because of their defense.
00:17:47I think people sometimes look at it like, well,
00:17:49his offense is a 10 and his defense is a 4, so he's a 7.
00:17:52And it doesn't work that way.
00:17:54Those guys control every aspect of what
00:17:57goes on on the floor on the offensive side.
00:17:59Luka is a 14 out of 10 on offense.
00:18:03He does everything.
00:18:05So he's so far above.
00:18:07No offense, guys.
00:18:08Everyone get mad in the comments.
00:18:10He's so far above Tatum in terms of what
00:18:12he does for an offense that you can't say, well, Tatum defends.
00:18:16Like, I'm not saying, Gary listed him.
00:18:18Tatum's among the type of players
00:18:19you'd need to get in return here.
00:18:21But we have to understand what Luka
00:18:25is on that side of the ball.
00:18:27And that is beyond what most people are,
00:18:30even the best offensive players in the league, even the SGAs
00:18:33and the Tatums who are outstanding.
00:18:35He's on a different planet.
00:18:36So it's not just a straight balance.
00:18:38And he can't necessarily play defense.
00:18:40But again, going back to the return,
00:18:42you've got to get one of those guys.
00:18:45If it's not for Tatum or SGA straight up,
00:18:47you need multiple, like an Ahmed Thompson and Jalen Green
00:18:50and all of their picks.
00:18:52That's the package you get.
00:18:54That type of ball.
00:18:55Two stars.
00:18:56Look what the Celtics were supposed
00:18:57to do way back when, when they wanted to get Anthony Davis.
00:19:01What was being talked about?
00:19:02A pick that was going to be a top two or three potentially,
00:19:05like lottery type of picks going forward.
00:19:09And multiple picks.
00:19:10Plus they wanted Tatum and Brown at the time.
00:19:13That's what, and then there was Celtics
00:19:15were holding firm on one
00:19:17and it wasn't enough to get it done.
00:19:18That you want two up and coming stars
00:19:22or at least one that's already almost there,
00:19:25but not on Luka's level.
00:19:26Plus all of the picks.
00:19:27That's what's crazy to me.
00:19:28What did you buy here?
00:19:30A better rest of this year?
00:19:32It's insane.
00:19:33I can't depend on them not showing up.
00:19:36You're still not the best team in the West.
00:19:38I'm not even sure if you're like top five in the West.
00:19:42So as far as this deal helping Dallas now,
00:19:45I'm not sure you moved that much closer
00:19:48to being a champion this year
00:19:50than you were before the trade was made.
00:19:52And again, that to me is where this is such a,
00:19:55just a perplexing deal because I don't think
00:19:57it significantly moves you closer in the present
00:20:00and it damn sure doesn't help you down the road.
00:20:04I think it makes you a little better
00:20:05in the present defensively.
00:20:06And I'm gonna stick to that, John,
00:20:08because Luka was in a place defensively,
00:20:11not just that he struggled a little bit
00:20:13or that he could be exposed here or there,
00:20:15that he had limitations.
00:20:17He was just apathetic to that side of the floor.
00:20:19And you look back at some of the final stuff, Gary,
00:20:22and I know I agree with you that it wasn't his fault,
00:20:25but he didn't help them on that end
00:20:26to the point where he's just floating around,
00:20:29not in the right positions,
00:20:31certainly not giving an effort on that end.
00:20:34And that's why, John-
00:20:35Yeah, imagine if they did this, JT for Bam.
00:20:39You'd lose your fricking mind, right?
00:20:41JT for Bam in a first.
00:20:43You would lose your mind.
00:20:43We're talking about the eighth and last best player
00:20:45in the league, maybe.
00:20:46No, you're talking about a guy who's 32 years old
00:20:48with a history of injuries and bigs don't age
00:20:51the same way that other players do.
00:20:53So no, you're not, we're not.
00:20:54We're talking about a bad, bad, bad return here,
00:20:57the wrong type of return.
00:20:59Yeah, right.
00:21:00And I can't defend them not shopping him
00:21:02and seeing what's out there,
00:21:04but what else are you going to get
00:21:06in terms of a centerpiece player return?
00:21:09Are you going to get Kevin Durant?
00:21:10Are you going to get Steph Curry?
00:21:12Like talking about the kind of guys that you would flip
00:21:14for your cornerstone player in return
00:21:17for a new cornerstone player,
00:21:18like you're not going to get much better
00:21:19than Anthony Davis.
00:21:21But that's kind of the point, Bobby.
00:21:22You're never going to know that
00:21:23because you never gave yourself a chance to expose this
00:21:26to the other 28, 29 teams in the league
00:21:29to see if they would-
00:21:32I can't understand that.
00:21:34The only thing I can think of is that maybe
00:21:35if you don't end up moving him
00:21:37and it gets out that you're shopping him,
00:21:38all of a sudden that relationship deteriorated.
00:21:41And I don't know, Gary,
00:21:43I don't know if you read the comments from the GM there,
00:21:45but he had all this talk about,
00:21:47oh, you know, we don't know
00:21:49if we're going to be able to sign him this summer
00:21:51and he might've opted out or he might've looked to leave.
00:21:54That's the part that I'm struggling with here.
00:21:56Like, did they think he was going to demand a trade-
00:21:58Right, Gary, are you hearing anything from people?
00:22:01I have not heard a word that he's unhappy in Dallas.
00:22:04I have not heard that, you know, we were just down there.
00:22:08We have not heard that, man, you know,
00:22:11this team feels like-
00:22:12Because if you look at it,
00:22:14maybe what encouraged him, as I mentioned earlier,
00:22:17was how well they played at times without Luka.
00:22:21They've beaten Oklahoma City this year
00:22:22three times without Luka.
00:22:24So is it a Luka problem?
00:22:26Now, the problem is, push it back, Bobby,
00:22:31Maxie Cleaver was in this trade,
00:22:32so he's one of their better defenders.
00:22:34He's gone and he also had broken his foot.
00:22:36Derek Lively's out for another two to three months.
00:22:39So you got Anthony Davis and Daniel Gafford
00:22:43and the great Dwight Powell as your backcourt.
00:22:46Like, that ain't no championship backcourt, man.
00:22:49Like, that's just, I like Gafford.
00:22:52Gafford eats up minutes, he eats up rebounds,
00:22:55he gets the free throw line.
00:22:56But, I mean, that's a thin backcourt
00:23:00unless you bring in somebody else.
00:23:02Now, Dallas is like, hey, we're looking for someone else.
00:23:05Or maybe you flip Max Christie,
00:23:07who's, I think, turning himself into a nice prospect
00:23:10into someone else.
00:23:12But I don't think this year, because of injuries,
00:23:14because Lively is not coming back till maybe April.
00:23:17I mean, we saw him in Dallas.
00:23:19He had a boot, I mean, he had a cast on his foot.
00:23:21Like, he's not coming back anytime soon.
00:23:24So, to me, this is a very short-sighted deal.
00:23:28And this is, to me, lends to be something personal.
00:23:31Like, maybe between Luka's stubbornness to say,
00:23:35listen, man, you see my numbers, I ain't the problem.
00:23:39And I can, I mean, we can all understand that.
00:23:41Go ahead, Jon.
00:23:42There's a couple stories out there,
00:23:44and again, I'm not sure what's out there,
00:23:45just in terms of, like, the conditioning
00:23:46and this and that.
00:23:47And maybe things have gotten to a point
00:23:49where I feel like there's gotta be something
00:23:51that goes a little bit deeper
00:23:52than just the basketball decisions.
00:23:54Because, Bobby, I don't think there's any point
00:23:55in rationalizing the basketball argument here,
00:23:58if basketball, if that wasn't really
00:24:00what factored into the trade.
00:24:02Yeah, no, I agree with you that you can't trade a con.
00:24:04They were getting out of the Luka business
00:24:06for one reason or another, and something tipped.
00:24:09And I'm not going conspiracy theory
00:24:11that there's some story that's gonna come out
00:24:13after the fact that he's done something off the court
00:24:15that he's gonna have to deal with.
00:24:17Nothing like that.
00:24:18But there's a report out there
00:24:20that his weight's ballooned while he's out there.
00:24:22And I don't know how many people have seen him
00:24:24in his recovery here.
00:24:26I saw one story said, people are saying he's up to,
00:24:29I don't know if this was attached to the McMahon story
00:24:31or not, 250, 260, 270, like way past
00:24:34what would be the point of acceptable.
00:24:36He looked like he had some khakis on.
00:24:39He did not look like-
00:24:40And he looked normal.
00:24:41We, you know, John, we all can look,
00:24:43we've seen beefy Luka.
00:24:46We've seen beefy Luka before.
00:24:48Yes, we've seen Luka with a couple of cheeseburgers before.
00:24:52This was not the guy.
00:24:54I saw him.
00:24:54I didn't look and go, damn, he's a,
00:24:57oh boy, he's gonna need a conditioning program
00:24:59to come back to the court.
00:25:00Like he looked slim.
00:25:02He looked like, he looked like he just, you know.
00:25:04So that's why I, yeah.
00:25:07So I don't get it.
00:25:08Yeah, I don't get it.
00:25:10Something's there.
00:25:11We'll get, we'll break down a little bit more.
00:25:13Sherrod's gonna have to bounce in a minute or two.
00:25:15We've gotta pay some bills real quick before we do.
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00:26:23We did lose Gary.
00:26:26I mean, we lost Sherrod.
00:26:27Gary is still here with some more thoughts here
00:26:30on the trade.
00:26:32And again, once you get past the initial shock value of it,
00:26:38I don't wanna put you out there, Gary,
00:26:40and have you say something you haven't heard
00:26:43from someone directly.
00:26:44Do you have any theories beyond just simply
00:26:48an owner getting cold feet
00:26:50or a rational basketball decision?
00:26:52Do you have any, like, what are we missing here?
00:26:55Is there, what's the missing piece?
00:26:57I think it's a combination of one,
00:27:00probably how well they've played without Luka.
00:27:03And I think those three victories over Oklahoma City
00:27:06without Luka this year, right?
00:27:08The number one team.
00:27:09So they're putting a lot of confidence in Kyrie Irving.
00:27:12Kyrie has been a model citizen since he's been in Dallas.
00:27:17He's kind of cleaned up his act.
00:27:20So maybe those wins in addition to,
00:27:24A, do we wanna pay him $350 million?
00:27:28And is he gonna either opt out?
00:27:30Is he gonna, or, and then obviously Luka has his ways
00:27:35of feeling about how he feels.
00:27:36If he doesn't think he needs to get in great shape,
00:27:40then that could be an issue with management also.
00:27:43It could be just like, hey, we've tried to tell this guy,
00:27:45lose that 20 pounds, get more muscular, get more cut.
00:27:50You're gonna last longer in this league.
00:27:52Okay, I got you.
00:27:53Then like some guys, they go back to Slovenia,
00:27:57he's eating his mother's cooking, he's hanging out.
00:27:59All of a sudden he comes back and it's like, oh man,
00:28:02he started, like at the end of the season,
00:28:04he was great shape at the finals and he comes back for camp
00:28:07and he's, you know, I got a sore calf
00:28:10and my hamstrings are a little tight.
00:28:12So I think it might've been a philosophical difference
00:28:15between management and Luka and his team
00:28:17because every guy who's as big as Luka has a team, right?
00:28:23And then also I think how well they played without Luka
00:28:28and then in terms of defense.
00:28:30Now, with Nico Harris, this is trying to build a team
00:28:33that's relied on defense and you've got,
00:28:36Kyrie is your front guy.
00:28:37Okay, but Kyrie is at least trying.
00:28:40That back court, so the front court with Gafford,
00:28:43with Lively, Lively's a key piece here.
00:28:46If he comes back, yeah, they'll be much better.
00:28:49I'm a big Lively guy, right?
00:28:50And I'm a big Gafford guy.
00:28:53He basically kept the Mavericks in the game
00:28:55most of the time last week when the Celtics pulled away.
00:28:59I mean, because they couldn't do anything with,
00:29:01no, they had nothing to do with,
00:29:02they couldn't do anything with Gafford.
00:29:05But is that a championship team?
00:29:07No, but I think it might be a money saving proposition.
00:29:11I think it might be a situation
00:29:13where it was just philosophical differences
00:29:14and you know what, Luka, we're gonna send you,
00:29:17you're LA guy, you seem like you wanna be a star,
00:29:20we'll send you over there,
00:29:21we'll get a guy here that works hard.
00:29:23And quite honestly, AD, is that the guy,
00:29:29banking on AD long-term is to me the tough part
00:29:34because 65 games is as best you're gonna get out of AD to me
00:29:39like that's a maximum situation.
00:29:42And now at 32, 33, 34, it's going to slow down
00:29:48and you're gonna have to have another emerging star
00:29:52around him, you've traded that guy.
00:29:54So I'm not sure, trading 25 for 32 is, ooh, that's a lot.
00:30:01Yeah, you're shortening your window big time,
00:30:03especially if you think Luka could play another five,
00:30:0610 years at the highest level here.
00:30:08So that's the tough part to wrap your head around too
00:30:10from the basketball perspective.
00:30:11And again, John, I agree, you can't trade Luka, I get that.
00:30:15That's the part that's really the problem here.
00:30:18But the return to me, again, you're talking about Luka
00:30:22being second through sixth best player in the league,
00:30:26depending on where you have them
00:30:28and Davis is eighth, ninth, 10th.
00:30:31It's not a massive drop-off overall
00:30:33and it's not like Davis is some player
00:30:35who's limited offensively
00:30:37or you're not gonna get a massive amount of production
00:30:40from on that end.
00:30:41The availability is the question for sure, Gary,
00:30:43but defensively, you're talking about one of the five,
00:30:4610 best players in the league.
00:30:48Oh man, oh man.
00:30:49That's a tough one.
00:30:53That ain't right, that's not right.
00:30:55Oh boy, that's a tough one, that's a tough one.
00:30:58That's a tough one, so no, I get it.
00:31:03I look at the championship teams this year,
00:31:06obviously Boston, New York, Cleveland,
00:31:08whoever you wanna throw in there,
00:31:09the teams out West, Denver, Oklahoma City,
00:31:12Dallas still in that mix.
00:31:15And if Kyrie's healthy,
00:31:17if Klay gets closer to the Klay we're used to seeing,
00:31:20and that's a big question now too,
00:31:22obviously given where he is in his career,
00:31:24Davis stays healthy down the stretch.
00:31:27You got Washington, you got Gafford,
00:31:29the lively thing's a big factor come playoff time, Gary.
00:31:32But if that group comes together this year
00:31:34or maybe it is next year,
00:31:37Oklahoma City's worried about that front court, John.
00:31:40Denver, I don't have a huge amount of faith
00:31:42of where they are.
00:31:42Bobby, nobody's, again, everything-
00:31:46I'm just rationalizing the return, John.
00:31:48No, no, no, I get it.
00:31:49But it's like, you know me, I hate if, I like unless.
00:31:53But this is what irritates me, John.
00:31:55If you're hinging things on if,
00:31:56like if this happens and if that happens,
00:31:58and if that happens, and if this thing happens
00:32:01and all of it happens, we're gonna be good.
00:32:05I like unless.
00:32:05Unless this happens, we'll be fine.
00:32:07Unless this bad thing happens.
00:32:08Dallas is still on up.
00:32:09Who knows how it's gonna work.
00:32:11Maybe this makes you marginal.
00:32:12You went to the finals with this team last year.
00:32:15How much better is it going to get?
00:32:17Like, okay, you got back to the finals.
00:32:19Like maybe, I don't know.
00:32:21I don't see them as clearly separating from the pack.
00:32:24Maybe they're 5% better on the court overall
00:32:27with this product, but like this team got to the finals.
00:32:30You have some other pieces there.
00:32:33Whether it makes you better or not,
00:32:34again, I don't think has anything to do
00:32:36with what makes it a bad trade.
00:32:38People are gonna take a victory lap
00:32:40if the Mavericks look a little better on the court.
00:32:42And as Gary said, they've played better without Luka.
00:32:44That's less the point.
00:32:45The point is, this is a trend.
00:32:48The trade, yeah, because you traded Luka, right.
00:32:49It's an asset.
00:32:51It's what you traded and what you got.
00:32:53Considering the going rate.
00:32:55That's where I'm gonna disagree with you, John.
00:32:56Miles Bridges, Rudy Gobert are getting bigger returns.
00:33:02That's not a bigger return than Anthony Davis
00:33:04just because you got some extra picks.
00:33:06And it's a different trade environment now too
00:33:08because there's limitations on teams who could get involved.
00:33:10It's a long-term deal for LA and maybe, maybe,
00:33:14maybe a short-term improvement for Dallas.
00:33:17Maybe, but no value, yeah.
00:33:20To me, like look at the Lakers.
00:33:21Okay, so Rob Pelinka, who has taken a lot of criticism
00:33:27for his lack of activity, for some of the moves,
00:33:30for bringing in Westbrook.
00:33:31Gary, do you think the Lakers wanted
00:33:33to give up Anthony Davis?
00:33:35For Luka, hell yes.
00:33:36I think the Lakers, on the phone, were like, okay.
00:33:40Hold on, let me think about it.
00:33:42Thank you, Anthony.
00:33:43You gave us the bubble championship.
00:33:45Immediately put it on hold.
00:33:47Everybody laughed and then they picked up the phone
00:33:50and like, yeah, I think we could do that.
00:33:52But they couldn't do this trade fast enough, Bobby.
00:33:55Yeah, they paid for a spaceship to take him to Dallas.
00:33:57Yeah, like, are you serious?
00:34:00Like, yeah, like totally.
00:34:02I think, one, the Lakers franchise
00:34:07is built on superstardom.
00:34:10Kareem, Magic, then the lean years when Magic retired.
00:34:16Then they got Kobe and Shaq.
00:34:18Then it was Kobe by himself.
00:34:20And then those lean years when they got all those
00:34:22lottery picks they botched.
00:34:24The Brandon Ingrams and the D'Angelo Russells
00:34:28and Julius Randles where they were supposed to be.
00:34:30Then they got LeBron in AD.
00:34:32Now, quite honestly, you've got your next generational star
00:34:37who's only 26, so he's got 10 plus years to go in LA.
00:34:42And we all know Luka likes the spotlight.
00:34:45So what, he's gonna be a Hollywood guy?
00:34:47Yes.
00:34:48The Lakers are like, because let's be honest,
00:34:53Bobby, they weren't really winning at a high level with AD.
00:34:58Last year, he played what, 70 games
00:35:01and they lost the first round.
00:35:03Like, they-
00:35:04Hey, yo, Coach.
00:35:05I mean, yeah.
00:35:06Yeah, but Laker fans are like, this was nice.
00:35:09Thank you, Anthony.
00:35:10But Luka?
00:35:12Yes, the Lakers were seeking a superstar
00:35:14and all they gave up was a 32-year-old Anthony Davis,
00:35:18a first-round pick in 2029.
00:35:21Who knows who that's gonna be?
00:35:23And then Max Christie, who was a second-round pick
00:35:27who ended up being a solid piece.
00:35:32He might even start for them over like Spencer Dinwiddie
00:35:36when he gets there and gets settled.
00:35:38Who knows, he might be a starter for them eventually
00:35:40or even now.
00:35:41So that's a nice piece.
00:35:43But because, I mean,
00:35:44and he took two, three years to develop, right?
00:35:47So to me, if that's all you're giving up,
00:35:51you're not giving up any of your young pro-
00:35:54If you had given up AD, Dalton Connett,
00:35:58you know, like Austin Reeves, you know,
00:36:01okay, you're giving up three, two starters
00:36:04and then that's different.
00:36:05They gave up basically a starter and a prospect
00:36:10and a pick for Luka.
00:36:12Luka, for Christ's sake.
00:36:13Like, this is insane to me.
00:36:16Like-
00:36:17It's insane.
00:36:18We all love AD.
00:36:19When AD is one of those players,
00:36:22when he's right, he's right.
00:36:24But he ain't always right in a time where
00:36:27at 30 plus in the NBA, your clock starts to tick.
00:36:31Everybody is LeBron and Steph.
00:36:33Everybody can't play till 39.
00:36:35And it's like, AD, do you think, Bobby, honestly,
00:36:40do you think AD will play five more years in the league?
00:36:46Bobby, did we lose you?
00:36:48I think Bobby is frozen.
00:36:49I'm going to remove him.
00:36:50While we wait for Bobby to unfreeze,
00:36:53because I want to follow up on that.
00:36:54And also we're going to do the thing that's going to,
00:36:56this is where we lose viewers.
00:36:58We're going to talk about whether the Celtics should have
00:37:02and could have and might have gotten involved here
00:37:05and what that might've looked like.
00:37:08We'll talk about that.
00:37:09And this is where I get everybody to hate me on the show.
00:37:11And that's fine.
00:37:12Real quick, we want to let you know
00:37:14about another one of our sponsors here on the Garden Report.
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00:38:14When the Celtics return home here next week,
00:38:18they got a date with who?
00:38:21The Dallas Mavericks.
00:38:21That's right.
00:38:22We've got Philly, we've got Cleveland.
00:38:24That's a big one.
00:38:25And then Dallas.
00:38:26What are you going to get here?
00:38:27I don't know if Anthony Davis is there,
00:38:28but you're getting the retooled Dallas Mavericks
00:38:31who are here to prove that Bobby was right
00:38:33and this was a good trade.
00:38:34If you want to get in, get in now.
00:38:36There's some pretty good seats available
00:38:37as you can see here on the app.
00:38:39Download that Game Time app, create an account,
00:38:42use code CLNS, and yeah,
00:38:43you can get pretty close to the action.
00:38:44Some pretty good deals here to get in
00:38:46and check out the retooled, revamped,
00:38:49championship contending Dallas Mavericks
00:38:52here at the TD Garden and NBA Finals rematch.
00:38:55So that's fun if you just want to go,
00:38:58but you want to go troll Kyrie a little bit, that's fine.
00:39:00It's not nearly as fun without Luca,
00:39:02but again, get in on the action with Game Time,
00:39:04download the app, code CLNS,
00:39:07$20 off your first purchase.
00:39:09Terms do apply.
00:39:10So I'll ask you guys this,
00:39:12let's say they shopped it and let's say it was out there
00:39:15because look, who doesn't play the what if game, right?
00:39:20This is what you do.
00:39:21Such and such is available.
00:39:22Whether or not you want to do it or not,
00:39:24you're always going to wonder,
00:39:25oh, could we get them over here?
00:39:28So let me ask you,
00:39:30he goes on the market right now, Gary Washburn,
00:39:32and this trade doesn't happen.
00:39:34We'll rewind 12 hours.
00:39:36And instead the tweet is the Dallas Mavericks
00:39:39have decided, have been informed that Luca wants out
00:39:43and they're going to trade him by this deadline.
00:39:45And every team scrambles to put forth their best offer.
00:39:48Do you expect Brad is picking up that phone
00:39:50and what do you expect Brad is saying?
00:39:52Well, that's an interesting question.
00:39:55I don't know, the fantasy if this happens
00:39:59is pairing Tatum and Luca, right?
00:40:02So I think if you're Brad, if you were like,
00:40:04okay, we need to make this happen,
00:40:07first you have to start with Jalen and Derek.
00:40:11And that's just, that's for starters.
00:40:14And then I don't know if the Celtics have any other prospect
00:40:19like they don't really have any,
00:40:21Peyton's probably their rising guy
00:40:23that you could throw into a deal
00:40:26where he'd be a deal sweetener.
00:40:28Like, you know, it's like coffee
00:40:30makes it a little more sweetener.
00:40:33Like I think how the Lakers threw Max Christie,
00:40:35like, hey, yeah, give us that guy, okay.
00:40:38So I think it would probably be those three
00:40:42in three probably first round picks
00:40:46would be to me what it would probably take.
00:40:50So now you're taking away your point guard,
00:40:52you're taking away your starting small four
00:40:58but you're pairing Luca and Tatum.
00:41:00I don't think Brad would want to do that.
00:41:02I think if though, if that was the case
00:41:06it would have to be starters, three veteran players
00:41:08and in probably three drafts.
00:41:11Unless it's Tatum, unless it's Tatum.
00:41:13Unless it's Tatum, unless you're like, you know what?
00:41:16We're just gonna take this chance
00:41:17and we're gonna move star for star
00:41:19and just see what happens here.
00:41:21But that's a see what happens here.
00:41:22That's the only other way.
00:41:23Otherwise you've got your entire roster.
00:41:25It doesn't make sense.
00:41:27It probably makes you worse in either way
00:41:30but it's an interesting conversation.
00:41:32Yeah, and of course you get the new trade restrictions now
00:41:35too so it would have to be Jalen for Luca straight up
00:41:38or Tatum for Luca straight up.
00:41:40So, it probably couldn't happen.
00:41:45You're not gonna trade Tatum for Luca.
00:41:47Jalen, this is keep going back to the Davis thing.
00:41:51If you're Dallas, you're taking Anthony Davis
00:41:53over Jalen Brown straight up in a trade like this
00:41:56and then, you know, whatever the picks would have been.
00:41:58Celtics actually don't have a ton of picks long-term.
00:42:02Maybe like three or four that they could throw in here
00:42:04after the holiday trade.
00:42:05So, you do Brown, right?
00:42:08If it was Brown for Luca, you do it.
00:42:10If it's Tatum for Luca.
00:42:11The chat does not, I'm very careful.
00:42:14I'm not even gonna give my opinion, Bobby
00:42:18because I'll light this place on fire if I do.
00:42:20And so, I'm just not gonna do it.
00:42:23But the chat has decided that even,
00:42:28Gary just laid it out pretty clear.
00:42:29You'd have to do Jalen plus this, plus this,
00:42:31plus that to get it done.
00:42:33Maybe not considering only AD plus a pick got it done.
00:42:36So, maybe Jalen straight up with a pick gets it done.
00:42:39But it's funny that Gary's mind initially went
00:42:42to actual value in an auction format
00:42:47where he was put out to the world.
00:42:48What would you have to do to beat other teams' offers?
00:42:51It's probably Jalen and stuff.
00:42:53But the entire chat is like,
00:42:56if somebody even suggests Jalen for Luca straight up,
00:43:00they're crazy.
00:43:00Okay, I know what level of dialogue we're having here.
00:43:04Like Celtics fans don't wanna hear it
00:43:06and don't wanna have it.
00:43:07That's fine.
00:43:08But yes, that's what it would take.
00:43:10That's what it would take.
00:43:12You were gonna do Jalen for Durant a couple of years ago.
00:43:14So, you're doing Jalen for Luca.
00:43:16I was gonna do it a couple of weeks ago.
00:43:18Yeah.
00:43:20And so, that's it.
00:43:21When I start thinking about in this new trade environment,
00:43:26what could you get for Luca if you shop them league wide?
00:43:29You could probably get Durant.
00:43:31But Durant's 35 now.
00:43:33He's at a different phase in his career.
00:43:3436 about to be 37.
00:43:35I think that's a minimum.
00:43:37I know, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
00:43:39I think minimum.
00:43:40I just said before,
00:43:41I think there's a four or five guys you would move.
00:43:45Like Wimby, SGA, Anthony Edwards.
00:43:51I think there's just a small handful of guys you would move.
00:43:55I wonder what Minnesota would have said
00:43:57if they called about Edwards.
00:43:58Exactly.
00:43:59Anthony Edwards.
00:44:00Now, that's an interesting one, Bobby,
00:44:02because to me, that's somebody who,
00:44:06as much as he produces, they're not having a great year.
00:44:10Maybe he could be the issue.
00:44:14To me, I just think there's not too many guys
00:44:18you'd trade Luca for.
00:44:19And I think this will be one of those deals,
00:44:22like it or not, that makes Nico Harrison's reputation
00:44:26as a GM.
00:44:27He'll go down in the Billy King files
00:44:30as what the hell did you just gave
00:44:33the Celtics five Eastern Conference appearances
00:44:36and a championship when you made that deal
00:44:38for Pierce and Garnett?
00:44:41Or, I think there'll just be,
00:44:45I think there'll just be,
00:44:47it probably isn't gonna turn out well
00:44:50because now, AD is a guy you're,
00:44:54and you guys would tell me,
00:44:57is Anthony Davis your number one,
00:44:59is he a franchise player?
00:45:01Like the number one,
00:45:03he never took that mantle from LeBron.
00:45:06LeBron, for years, tried to give it to him.
00:45:08It's AD's team.
00:45:10I'm just, he tried to be the number two guy
00:45:13and he still is not the number two guy.
00:45:14LeBron is still the number one option on that team.
00:45:17We saw it last night at the Garden
00:45:18where he just put on a show.
00:45:20Like, is AD the type of guy
00:45:23who can be your number one franchise option?
00:45:28And maybe in New Orleans, he was,
00:45:30but they weren't as successful.
00:45:32The Lakers, he never took that mantle from LeBron.
00:45:35And now at 32, can he be that guy?
00:45:38Because that's the guy you're gonna need
00:45:40to make this trade work
00:45:41because Kyrie's 32, about to be 33,
00:45:46and you don't have any super, like Derek Lively.
00:45:49Like, you don't have that guy.
00:45:52AD at 24 or 25, then you can start to make a case,
00:45:57absolutely a top three, four, five-ish asset.
00:46:00When the Celtics were talking about adding him
00:46:02to the mix here, that's what you were adding.
00:46:04You're adding one of the top players in the NBA,
00:46:08no question about it, one that needed someone else.
00:46:11AD's not gonna be alpha, alpha.
00:46:13He needs a scorer alongside him too,
00:46:15someone playing on the perimeter.
00:46:17But you wanted to get that kind of the Shaq, Kobe,
00:46:20the big man, you know, kind of whatever,
00:46:22you know, duo in place to get that done.
00:46:25He needs that for sure.
00:46:26He's not the guy who's out there
00:46:27gonna do it all by himself.
00:46:28It's the 32-years-old aspect of things.
00:46:32And people who are discounting that are insane.
00:46:34As Gary said earlier, everyone's not LeBron.
00:46:36Look at what happened with frigging, let's cross sports.
00:46:39Look at the New York Jets here,
00:46:41thinking, oh, if Tom Brady can do it,
00:46:43Aaron Rodgers must be able to.
00:46:45No, it doesn't work that way.
00:46:47I understand, but like, that's also quarterbacks
00:46:50who age a little bit better.
00:46:52You can't, it's like the amount of people
00:46:55who do this sort of stuff and continue better,
00:46:57particularly bigs, it doesn't work that way.
00:47:00You know, like it catches up with you.
00:47:04You're-
00:47:05I'm curious to see what it's gonna look like.
00:47:07I know Harrison's, this is what confuses me
00:47:10a little bit too, Harrison being out-
00:47:12And we're gonna wrap up in a little bit here too, yeah.
00:47:15Go ahead, Bobby.
00:47:16It's this back and forth, and it's so obvious,
00:47:20because it's not obvious, John, because of the age,
00:47:23and obviously, Klay and Kyrie are at a different point
00:47:26in their careers too, so it's not like they're gonna be able
00:47:28to do the LeBron frontman thing
00:47:30alongside Davis here either.
00:47:31I am a Davis guy.
00:47:33I do think, you know, Gary mentioned the street clothes
00:47:35thing earlier, and some of this perception
00:47:38that's been attached to him.
00:47:40I think he's a much better player
00:47:41than fans generally give him credit for
00:47:44at this point in his career,
00:47:45and I know the championship was five years ago
00:47:47at this point, but he was the central force
00:47:50in that run for LA, and at times,
00:47:52over the last couple years, he's been a better player.
00:47:55So it's gonna have to all come together here.
00:47:57It's not like he's gonna take the ball
00:47:58and score 30 points a game
00:48:00and drive them to the promised land here.
00:48:02They're gonna need Kyrie being Kyrie,
00:48:04they're gonna need Klay being Klay,
00:48:06and that's a lot of ifs, as you mentioned earlier.
00:48:09But defensively, to me, the size in their front court,
00:48:13you look at the players that they're gonna have
00:48:16once Lively does come back, Gary,
00:48:18I see a little bit what they're doing here.
00:48:20I see the vision that they have.
00:48:22Obviously, you're moving off Luka,
00:48:24not for basketball reasons, but for some other reason here,
00:48:28whether it's the money, whether it's his commitment
00:48:30or weight, whatever you want us to say here.
00:48:33But to me, the only thing I'm gonna defend is the return,
00:48:36because I do believe in Davis at that level.
00:48:39I do believe in this massive front court
00:48:41that they're building here compared to Cleveland,
00:48:44what they're doing out there.
00:48:46But there are a lot of ifs right now,
00:48:47and that has to concern you.
00:48:49There were ifs with Luka too,
00:48:50but the one thing you could say about Luka, Gary,
00:48:52is that any game series, even that one Sunday game,
00:48:57people picked ass in that, right?
00:49:00You could imagine him carrying that team
00:49:03two, four wins in a playoff series
00:49:05against basically anyone, and now you don't have that.
00:49:08Like you're saying Kyrie needs to play
00:49:10at his highest possible level.
00:49:12Klay, who is really past his prime at this point,
00:49:15has to play at his highest possible level.
00:49:17And then Dave, of course, has to be available,
00:49:19aggressive, and the best version of himself.
00:49:22So I'm-
00:49:31Hello?
00:49:41You got me?
00:49:47You got me, Gary?
00:49:48I can hear you, Bobby.
00:49:49Sorry, we had a couple-
00:49:50Yeah, I was saying, I'm confused.
00:49:53Bobby, time out.
00:49:56Just a second, because you were a little jammed up.
00:49:58If you go again, just read, okay, sorry.
00:50:00We got a little crossed up there,
00:50:02and Gary got left alone.
00:50:03Go ahead.
00:50:06Yeah, I was going to say,
00:50:07there's the whole point of this,
00:50:09yeah, I was going to say,
00:50:10there's a lot of ifs here from the basketball perspective,
00:50:12and it is confusing to hear Harrison talk about this,
00:50:16like it's this stroke of genius,
00:50:18or that they're building something
00:50:21from a basketball standpoint that people don't understand.
00:50:23What we need an answer for, Gary,
00:50:24is why they decided they don't want to be
00:50:26in the Luka business anymore.
00:50:28And maybe there's some allusion to his weight,
00:50:30or his commitment, or even interpersonal stuff here
00:50:33that might've gone on, but that's the real question.
00:50:36It's not what are you doing with Davis?
00:50:39It's why couldn't this work with Luka?
00:50:41Because you don't trade Luka,
00:50:43and that's what I'm going to give everybody here,
00:50:45is that you just can't do that.
00:50:47No, I mean, I feel like there's very few guys in this league
00:50:51who give you that uh-oh factor.
00:50:53What I mean by that is, it was like in John,
00:50:57I remember, it was like when Jordan
00:50:58had the ball in his hands, it was like, oh shit, uh-oh.
00:51:01Like, especially playing against your team.
00:51:04Luka, on certain nights,
00:51:07I remember that Western Conference final game
00:51:08against Minnesota, where he was talking to somebody,
00:51:11I remember Snoop Dogg was at the game,
00:51:13and he was talking to whoever was behind Snoop Dogg,
00:51:15and he was literally like, oh, okay,
00:51:18you got something to say, huh?
00:51:19And he was going at like, Luka can score 50
00:51:24without losing any sleep.
00:51:26Luka can be that guy that can just carry your team,
00:51:30that can just not miss.
00:51:32And that's intangible.
00:51:34You cannot teach those things.
00:51:37That is like, to me, what makes him a franchise player.
00:51:40Just look at what the Sacramento Kings did, Bobby.
00:51:43They skipped over Trey and Luka
00:51:45to take Marvin Bagley Jr., okay?
00:51:48Like, if you're talking about a fireball offense
00:51:51where Vlade Divac did that, you don't,
00:51:53you, like, the Kings missed on both.
00:51:58Every team was, because obviously,
00:52:00you remember, Bobby, when he came out,
00:52:03we had no idea how good he was gonna be.
00:52:06No one knew about this guy.
00:52:08He was kind of a mystery, and we've had mysteries before.
00:52:11I remember Dante Exum was that guy
00:52:13that there was people like, oh, he could be a real star,
00:52:16and he ended up being a guy who could never stay healthy.
00:52:19And I remember, will the Celtics take Marcus Smart
00:52:23or Dante Exum?
00:52:25And obviously, it worked out for them.
00:52:26They took Smart because Exum got taken.
00:52:29And you had Dragan Bender.
00:52:30Yeah, Dragan Bender, okay, like,
00:52:32we all thought, hey, Dragan Bender's gonna be
00:52:35a difference maker in this league.
00:52:38You know, there's always been guys like that,
00:52:40and Luka was the one who probably resurrected
00:52:45our faith in a lot of European prospects,
00:52:48because for a while, there was a lot of,
00:52:51there was, you know, there was a lot of guys
00:52:54who just slipped, failed, were busts,
00:52:57or were okay players, Bargnani's and those guys
00:53:01who ended up being like, eh, he's okay,
00:53:04but my goodness, there was a lot of hype.
00:53:06And Luka now made everyone pay attention
00:53:10to anyone from overseas that was coming into the draft,
00:53:13like, he could be the next Luka.
00:53:15So I just think when you have that type of talent,
00:53:20and you've gotta just understand the warts
00:53:22that come with it, and obviously, like you said,
00:53:24it was probably a personal thing.
00:53:26It was a Luka thing.
00:53:27It was a situation where the Mavericks were like,
00:53:30maybe the ownership said,
00:53:31I'm not paying this guy 350 million,
00:53:33and he's not in supreme shape.
00:53:35And I wanna, and maybe Nikko Harrison said,
00:53:39listen, we don't have to pay him that.
00:53:42We can pay Davis the 60 million over,
00:53:46because I think he decided-
00:53:47I think that's a big factor here.
00:53:49Three years, 180 extension, okay.
00:53:52He said, you know, I'm sure he went to the ownership,
00:53:54said, listen, we can pay three years, 180,
00:53:58as opposed to five years, 350,
00:54:01and then we can work on finding
00:54:03that next generational talent over the draft,
00:54:07maybe through a trade, whatever,
00:54:10that we can find that guy that can be
00:54:13the next quote unquote Luka, not exactly,
00:54:15but that we can find that guy,
00:54:18and you can save yourself $150 million.
00:54:21And I think that that probably played into it,
00:54:24because if you're Mark Cuban,
00:54:25who's no longer the owner,
00:54:28you know, Mark Cuban does not do this deal.
00:54:29I'm sure Mark Cuban is like shaking his head,
00:54:33wondering what the hell's going on,
00:54:35what's going on with my team?
00:54:35There's no way he does it.
00:54:37Yeah, he loved Luka.
00:54:39But to go back to the Cuban era,
00:54:43you had Porzingis and Luka together,
00:54:46or whatever reason that didn't work,
00:54:47you move on from Porzingis, maybe to play Kate Luka.
00:54:51You have Jalen Brunson there,
00:54:52you have the opportunity to make
00:54:54that Luka Brunson thing work,
00:54:56and then you move on from Brunson.
00:54:58So you had all these pieces,
00:55:00you had this Porzingis, Luka, Brunson core,
00:55:03and then you make all these other moves,
00:55:04trading picks and whatever else,
00:55:05bringing in Washington, you move off Grant,
00:55:07you make all these different moves
00:55:09to try to make it work around Luka,
00:55:11even the Kyrie thing.
00:55:13And now you're just like,
00:55:15well, we'll roll forward with Davis and Kyrie,
00:55:19that's what we're doing here.
00:55:20It doesn't have a long term,
00:55:22even to your point, Gary,
00:55:24maybe you can go on and find Luka in another,
00:55:28why do that when you already have Luka?
00:55:30And I get he's not perfect,
00:55:31I get he has a lot of words,
00:55:32and they're probably even worse
00:55:33than we can understand right now,
00:55:35if they were willing to do this.
00:55:37But he's 25, right?
00:55:40I mean, 28, he's a different person,
00:55:4230, he's a different person,
00:55:44and you have that whole runway with him.
00:55:45And I think it is kind of hard
00:55:47to wrap your head around the financial reality here, John,
00:55:50like with new ownership, with new cap restrictions,
00:55:55you're really stuck at a certain point
00:55:56in how you're building your roster,
00:55:58but you make it work around a guy like him.
00:56:01Yeah, that's why I'm not gonna do that,
00:56:03well, this guy in the past got this, it's a new world.
00:56:07The economics are totally different,
00:56:08and people value assets more nowadays
00:56:11than even a year ago, two years ago,
00:56:14because of the cap realities,
00:56:16and how punitive it can be,
00:56:16and how difficult it is. You can only compare
00:56:17this with a non-trade.
00:56:19So now I think you're gonna see
00:56:21more of these types of deals,
00:56:23where before it was like, oh, screw it,
00:56:25I'll pay this guy,
00:56:26because what am I gonna do, not have him?
00:56:28And now people are gonna be a lot more selective
00:56:30about who they're giving these super maxes,
00:56:33the Julius Randall type players,
00:56:36who are like, well, shit, they made an all NBA team,
00:56:39and now I gotta super max him to keep him.
00:56:41What am I gonna do, get rid of him?
00:56:43Yeah, the answer is now probably get rid of him.
00:56:44So Dallas reached this conclusion
00:56:46with a player who's far beyond that level,
00:56:50clearly deserving of that, but just deciding,
00:56:53I don't wanna invest my money in that,
00:56:54for whatever reason that they decided.
00:56:56So it's a different thinking,
00:56:58and so I wouldn't be shocked if we see more trades
00:57:01that are surprising, like, holy crap,
00:57:03they don't wanna, because it's so much money,
00:57:07and it really becomes, you hand your franchise
00:57:09over to this person if you pay them.
00:57:11So I'm curious how that's gonna play out in the future.
00:57:13I still think it's a bad return,
00:57:15because teams are gonna line up,
00:57:17teams wait their entire lives to line up
00:57:19to get a player like Luka Doncic.
00:57:21He's better right now than probably any player,
00:57:25a dozen NBA franchises have ever had
00:57:27in their history on their team.
00:57:29So they don't come around often.
00:57:31They could have gotten more.
00:57:33It is what it is, but we are gonna wrap.
00:57:35We've kept Gary here long enough,
00:57:36but we're thrilled to have had him on here.
00:57:38If you wanna catch the audio version of this podcast,
00:57:41we're gonna double it up.
00:57:41It's both on the Garden Report feed
00:57:44and over on the Big Three podcast,
00:57:46and if you don't know about the Big Three podcast,
00:57:48shame on you, it's Gary Washburn,
00:57:50Sherrod Blakely, obviously,
00:57:52who we just heard from earlier,
00:57:54and Kwani Lunas, one of the best basketball podcasts,
00:57:57not just talking Celtics matters, but all matters.
00:58:00Really fun listen, you guys should subscribe.
00:58:02Subscribe today.
00:58:03In fact, everybody who's here, subscribe now.
00:58:06I'll wait.
00:58:08Okay, subscribe, rate, and review
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00:58:17Subscribe to those channels as well,
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00:58:20for all sorts of Celtics content.
00:58:22Before we go, I will let everybody know
00:58:24we have more stuff coming on today.
00:58:25We gotta do some football programming
00:58:28for Super Bowl preview.
00:58:30We're gonna be traveling out to the Super Bowl as well,
00:58:32so we're gonna have coverage from you all week long,
00:58:34and we got a game, so Celtics play.
00:58:36Bobby, or Gary, are you in Philly right now, or are you home?
00:58:39No, I'm home.
00:58:40You're home, that's why you get to wear your Celtics green,
00:58:41because you don't have to act like a,
00:58:43you're not a journalist out there.
00:58:44It's a bossy globe.
00:58:46You know me, John, I'm a big brain streamer.
00:58:49Yeah, no, I'm a Berkeley guy right there with you,
00:58:53by the way, Gary.
00:58:54I don't know if you knew that.
00:58:55I was born out there.
00:58:56Oh, muscle, bossy.
00:58:58Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:59So, you know, it's you and me versus the Q's guys,
00:59:02Bobby and Sherrod over there.
00:59:04But again, definitely, definitely, definitely
00:59:06subscribe to the Big Three podcast.
00:59:07Big win last night.
00:59:08Thank you, Pete.
00:59:09That's what I like to see, and check that out.
00:59:14It's twice weekly on the CLNS Media Network
00:59:16and over on their feed as well.
00:59:17And of course, catch everything that Gary Washburn writes
00:59:20over on the Boston Globe.
00:59:23And if you aren't doing that,
00:59:24you're missing out on a lot of great basketball insight.
00:59:27I'm sure Gary's going to do some digging
00:59:29and find the scoop, figure out exactly what went on here.
00:59:33As we, the dust still settles.
00:59:35It is incredible that we're 12 hours or so
00:59:40after that this happened.
00:59:41And I don't think it makes any more sense to anybody.
00:59:43We have no more explanations.
00:59:45It might be as simple as all of the stuff
00:59:47that we've discussed here, but we'll see.
00:59:48John, everyone thought Shams got hacked.
00:59:50That's one of the funniest tweets I saw is,
00:59:52if you're Nico Harrison right now,
00:59:54how does it feel knowing that the entire social media world
00:59:58chose to believe that Shams was hacked
01:00:00rather than you would have made this trade?
01:00:02Which is crazy to me.
01:00:03Like, if you're wondering, like, what do people think?
01:00:05And you walked out there and everyone's like,
01:00:07nah, this can't be real.
01:00:09That can't give you a lot of confidence
01:00:12right out of the gate.
01:00:13I'm going to liken this to one more thing before we go.
01:00:15For Boston sports fans, not just basketball fans,
01:00:18it smacks a little bit.
01:00:20And again, if you, from a Dallas Mavericks perspective,
01:00:22it smacks a little bit of the
01:00:23Nomar Garcia Parra trade in 2004,
01:00:26which made no sense for the return that you got back.
01:00:29I'm not comparing Nomar to Luka.
01:00:31And in fact, he was probably on the downswing,
01:00:33but you traded a superstar
01:00:35and a franchise cornerstone for spare parts.
01:00:39And we're talking Orlando Cabrera and Dugman Kavich.
01:00:41And that made no sense to anybody.
01:00:44And it resulted in a World Series.
01:00:46So let's just say the Mavericks do.
01:00:49I think we can all agree long-term,
01:00:50this didn't make sense,
01:00:51doesn't make sense from an asset management standpoint.
01:00:53But if they somehow sneak a single title out of this,
01:00:57you start to ask, ah, maybe it was worth it.
01:01:00So again, they can do a lot right
01:01:02by doing something in the very, very short term.
01:01:05Long-term, it's going to be difficult to reconcile this,
01:01:08I think for Mavericks fans.
01:01:09And I saw something today,
01:01:10and this was as of three hours ago,
01:01:11700,000 people unfollowed
01:01:16the Dallas Mavericks Instagram account.
01:01:18That should give you a little insight
01:01:20into what people are feeling in Dallas right now.
01:01:22And they are apoplectic.
01:01:24They don't understand it.
01:01:25We've gone through this before here in Boston.
01:01:27Mookie Betts, that stings.
01:01:29That cost the Red Sox a ton of fans.
01:01:31And even Bruins fans watched us trade away
01:01:34Tyler Sagan and Joe Thornton for lesser returns.
01:01:37Again, none of these guys are on Luka's level.
01:01:39Mookie is close, but you see stars go away
01:01:42and you look at the return coming back
01:01:44and you're like, ah, I don't get it.
01:01:46So again, this one's going to hurt.
01:01:48I think it's going to hurt Mavericks fans
01:01:49for a little bit of time.
01:01:50And it's really going to hurt if Luka decides to motivate,
01:01:53get in shape, Gary, get on that vegan diet
01:01:56and start to crush it in LA for the next 10 years
01:01:58with the entire spotlight of the world on him,
01:02:01which I think is entirely possible here.
01:02:03So again, it's going to continue to be fun,
01:02:07but God bless the NBA for stuff like this happening.
01:02:10It's that's what makes it one of the best,
01:02:12the best league to follow in the world.
01:02:14Lakers, Mavs, April 9th.
01:02:17Yeah, it's never not interesting.
01:02:18So thank you guys out there for joining us
01:02:21on a kind of weird off time garden report.
01:02:23We're back later.
01:02:24Thank you to Gary Washburn for jumping on the show
01:02:26to let his voice be heard.
01:02:27Thank you to Sherrod Blakely, of course.
01:02:29And thank you to all of you guys jumping in and watching
01:02:32and commenting and keeping us honest
01:02:34and letting us know that our takes stink.
01:02:35We do appreciate you guys.
01:02:37We will see you later tonight.
01:02:38Post game show, Celtics versus the Sixers in Philly.
01:02:42Bobby and Noah are down in Philly.
01:02:44They'll be covering the game from there.
01:02:45Thanks everybody.
01:02:46No one's sneaking a vegan brownie by me.
01:02:48I'll tell you that.
01:02:48Okay, you know what, John?
01:02:49We're going to do it.
01:02:50You have to feel that way too, Bobby.
01:02:51I have to feel that way?
01:02:53Slide Al over and make Luke your first center.
01:02:56Bobby, we gave you Luke hour earlier.
01:02:58We're not going to end this
01:02:59on a damn conversation about Luke.