👉 Mónica Millapi se encuentra actualmente bajo arresto domiciliario en la provincia de Neuquén. Millapi fue privada de su libertad durante casi seis meses y ahora se encuentra en casa con sus hijos. En una entrevista, revela detalles sobre el día que desapareció Loan Peña en la localidad de 9 de julio en Corrientes el pasado 13 de junio de 2024.
👉 Seguí en #QuienCuandoDonde #QCD
👉 Seguí en #QuienCuandoDonde #QCD
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00:00Before Marcelo speaks, we have to congratulate him.
00:03Very good job.
00:04Marcelo, the truth is that from here I congratulate you.
00:07The only person...
00:09It's the only victory that a lawyer can have.
00:11More than a victory...
00:13No, no, I say from the legal point of view,
00:15you have to congratulate him because it is a great job
00:18to be able to have a person accused with house arrest.
00:23Of what is accused, with how mediatic it is,
00:26the case that you have to overcome more obstacles.
00:28So I wanted to congratulate you, Marcelo,
00:30because I haven't had the opportunity.
00:31Tell us, Marcelo.
00:32Marcelo Hanson is Monica Mischapi's lawyer.
00:35Pablo, hello Monica.
00:37Look, no, what is important is that everything that is being said
00:42and what you are asking Monica,
00:45obviously they are all conjectures,
00:47hypotheses, but not at all,
00:50is the version of the facts that she has.
00:53Precisely, we were careful for her to tell her truth
00:58and that at the time of asking her questions
01:01like the ones you just asked her,
01:04the hypotheses can be any, but they,
01:07both Ramirez and Mischapi,
01:09are as surprised as anyone would be.
01:12That is, it did not disappear from their sight.
01:15That has to be clear at this point in the file.
01:19It disappeared in another place, very far from them.
01:23But no, Marcelo, that is not clear, excuse me.
01:26I mean, it's not clear.
01:28You tell me, it disappeared in another place,
01:30but if they were all in Naranjal
01:31and they didn't get to walk a block,
01:33and they didn't see it anymore.
01:34Where did it disappear? There?
01:35There are 600 meters of difference, Pablito.
01:38Where?
01:40From Naranjal to the house.
01:42Okay, but...
01:43And 300 kilometers from both sides.
01:45No, but wait, Marcelo.
01:47Mónica, Mónica tells us...
01:49Wait, wait, no, now I'm asking you.
01:52Do you know the exact place where it disappeared?
01:56Look, I can't know the exact place,
01:58but we can know from the people who were there
02:01that they say, I didn't see it until this moment,
02:03and I didn't see it until this moment.
02:04Not even justice knows, Pablo.
02:06No, but Marcelo, if you...
02:07Not even justice knows.
02:08But Mónica is saying that she saw it at one point,
02:11until Naranjal arrives.
02:13Until Naranjal arrives, that she sees it.
02:15And if she saw it, it wasn't missing.
02:18No.
02:19But no one took it,
02:21and neither did any of the five kids.
02:23Who took it?
02:24No, but there are no 600 meters, Marcelo.
02:27They are from Naranjal to 100 meters,
02:30in any case, the moment it disappears.
02:33Not beyond that, except...
02:35The 600 meters are made in 12 minutes.
02:39Add 8 minutes, 9 minutes of the call,
02:42plus 4 or 5 that took a long time to realize.
02:45The child could easily have gotten into the forest.
02:49Yes, Marcelo, yes, Marcelo,
02:52that hypothesis is possible,
02:55temporarily, it is possible,
02:58what we are talking about here,
03:00because it is true that he may also have had an accident
03:03or have loaded it...
03:04Or he may even have gotten lost first.
03:06Or have loaded it.
03:07What we are talking about here,
03:10is that it is missing
03:13from the last time they see it,
03:15which is in Naranjal,
03:16until they realize that...
03:19Of course, there are several witnesses who say it was there.
03:22Monica Misapí?
03:24Adding up the minutes,
03:27it gives me 15 minutes at least,
03:29which is enough for the child
03:32to have reached at least the path between the mountains,
03:36or if he went the wrong way,
03:38he went from the other side of the mountain...
03:40No, I don't get those numbers, Marcelo.
03:43Why?
03:44Because Monica is telling us
03:45that she saw the child in the first 5 minutes.
03:47Therefore, if they were 15 minutes in Naranjal,
03:49she saw him in the first 5 minutes.
03:51No, no, no, forget it.
03:53Your calculation is missing something.
03:56From the call onwards.
03:58No, no, we are counting everything.
04:00We can't count from the call...
04:02You arrive in Naranjal and there is the child.
04:04The analysis is wrong,
04:06because when she starts the call,
04:08it is the last time she sees the child,
04:10and she told you...
04:11And where does she see him?
04:13Where does she see him?
04:15In Naranjal?
04:17In Naranjal.
04:18Perfect.
04:20But they take 4 or 5 minutes to leave.
04:23We are at 12, 13, 14 minutes.
04:25Perfect.
04:26Okay, we agree.
04:28The last place, where she arrives,
04:30and from her testimony,
04:32and also from the children,
04:33she sees the child,
04:34and Monica's testimony,
04:36Daniel Ramirez's testimony.
04:37The child arrives in Naranjal,
04:38they see him,
04:39peel him an orange,
04:40and they give it to him.
04:41And then she separates with Daniel Ramirez
04:43because of the call,
04:44to listen better,
04:45to be aware of him,
04:46the wind that bothered her,
04:47and so on.
04:48So, it's fine,
04:49we are talking about the same thing.
04:51From Naranjal,
04:52as the last place where she saw him,
04:54and from a window period of 10, 12 minutes,
04:56which has to be walking the child,
04:58if we believe that the child walked them
05:00voluntarily,
05:01not adult walking,
05:02with which the radio also shrinks a little,
05:04if it is a child walking in a reptile way,
05:06even when the version is true
05:08that the child says he wants to go home.
05:10It is rare that such a small child,
05:12no matter how many other children say it,
05:14wants to go back on his own,
05:16that there is no one who at that moment ...
05:18Nobody sees him either, Bobby.
05:20Nobody sees him either.
05:21I know that you place that
05:23much closer to the house of Grandma Catalina,
05:26if indeed the child returned to that side,
05:28than from Naranjal.
05:29But we are there,
05:30we are in more or less 10, 12 minutes,
05:32in time,
05:33and we are more or less in 200, 300 meters
05:36square to the round,
05:38or to the round,
05:39in distance.
05:40Now let me interpret, Marcelo,
05:41confirm me if this is so.
05:43Listen to me,
05:44I'll give you a practical example.
05:46You are sitting there on the floor,
05:48I know him,
05:49and the door of the entrance hall is open,
05:51there, right?
05:52Yes.
05:53Well, you who are having a coffee
05:55there in that little room
05:56where you do it,
05:57you don't see it.
05:59What do you have in front of you?
06:01A wall.
06:02Yes.
06:03Here is the same, you say.
06:05The mountain, the mountain,
06:07at a distance,
06:08in those 600 meters,
06:09is a wall.
06:10Very good, very good.
06:12Let's see if I understand your reasoning,
06:14which is,
06:15I don't know why,
06:16but we share that reasoning,
06:18we don't disagree.
06:19But I say,
06:20Monica marks,
06:21the first five minutes,
06:22we arrived,
06:23and the call had not yet happened,
06:25the child was there.
06:26He just said,
06:27she saw him.
06:28There is a time
06:29where she,
06:30for 8 or 10 minutes,
06:31stops paying attention.
06:32It's like putting a second wall,
06:34if you want,
06:35in this reasoning.
06:37Now, when he comes back,
06:39everyone gets up
06:40and they go together,
06:42and there,
06:43there,
06:44they notice the disappearance,
06:45the one that is not there.
06:46Because they leave,
06:47they leave an open space.
06:48When they leave,
06:49they notice the disappearance.
06:50No, no, no, no,
06:51until there,
06:52they notice that the child is not there,
06:53they notice that he is not there.
06:54Very good.
06:55At 150 meters,
06:56at 150 meters,
06:57at 150 meters,
06:58from the car.
06:59Very good,
07:00very good.
07:01I add,
07:02I add,
07:03at 8 or 9 minutes,
07:044 or 5 minutes,
07:05which is what it will have taken
07:06to travel
07:07those 150 meters.
07:08No, Marcelo,
07:09that's not what
07:10Monica just said here.
07:11No, no,
07:12I wait,
07:13but what I don't want,
07:14no, no, no,
07:15stop, stop,
07:16wait for me,
07:17wait for me,
07:18wait for me,
07:19wait for me,
07:20wait for me,
07:21wait for me,
07:22wait for me,
07:23wait for me,
07:24wait for me,
07:25wait for me,
07:26wait for me,
07:27wait for me,
07:28wait for me,
07:29wait for me,
07:30wait for.
07:31As soon as I can
07:32answer what he's asking you,
07:33let's go one by one
07:34because the audios
07:35connect in one way,
07:36let's go
07:37one by one.
07:38OK,
07:39listen to me
07:40Marcelo,
07:41you are interpreting
07:42what Miyabi said here,
07:43that with good will
07:44you let him talk,
07:46but accomplish it,
07:48because he said,
07:49it finished the call
07:50and we didn't go.
07:51It didn't take
07:524 minutes
07:53or 5 minutes
07:54or 9 minutes
07:55He said, I don't know when I saw him peeling the orange.
07:58If it was the call or when we got there.
08:01But it doesn't matter.
08:02He put it on before.
08:03There are eight minutes.
08:04He said, my husband finished and we left.
08:06And he walked 100 meters.
08:07Not 150, like you're putting me.
08:10Not four minutes before he finished.
08:12What she said here is that.
08:15He finished the call.
08:16We left.
08:17And at 100 meters, we walked 100 meters.
08:20And I saw that a boy was missing.
08:23And I told him.
08:24There is not 150 meters, not four and five minutes.
08:27But it doesn't matter.
08:28And this is the only thing that you are right and I agree.
08:31That if it was 5, 10, 8.
08:34Nobody saw him go out to the side of the house.
08:36Not for school, not for the tapera, not for anywhere.
08:39But there is Marcelo.
08:40There is a boy who had said that the boy was wanting to go to the house.
08:44Now I'm listening to you.
08:45Come on, Marcelo.
08:46Your turn, please.
08:47I try to be objective.
08:48Because obviously Monica declares what she perceived in her senses.
08:52There, the issue of minutes away is not the same perception for everyone.
08:57But I have objective data on the cause that you know.
09:00We have Benitez's call to his wife.
09:03The first call, 14-24.
09:05Yes.
09:06Yes.
09:07Ramirez's call was 9 minutes from 14-09.
09:12Yes.
09:13We are at 18.
09:14Between 18 and 24, there are 6 minutes.
09:17So I understand that by the time Monica realizes, it is more or less 2 minutes before.
09:22Four and a half, if you want.
09:24That's why I do that objective calculation.
09:27Not interpreting.
09:28No, no.
09:29It's okay.
09:30Objective data that is in the cause.
09:33Perfect.
09:34Now, let's see.
09:36No, no.
09:37It's okay.
09:38Objective data that is in the cause.
09:41Perfect.
09:42Now, Marcelo, following this line of reasoning.
09:45So, the idea that you get is that the boy could have returned, as it was said,
09:52that he had said that he wanted to take and go home with his father.
09:56That he could even have found the way.
09:59Tell me.
10:01Look.
10:02It does not arise only from my reasoning.
10:04It arises from the testimonies of the boys.
10:06Of course.
10:07That not only one.
10:08Several boys say that he left before.
10:10Some even go into more detail.
10:12He even tells where he went.
10:15And he went to the house of Grandma Catalina.
10:17And then we have the statement of a defendant in the reconstruction.
10:23That put him that we do not believe him.
10:25Put him that we do not believe him.
10:27He also said that he gave the orange to a girl and another whole to return.
10:32Because he wanted to return with his father.
10:34And then the attitude of that defendant complicates it.
10:37That's why we, when we analyze together with Monti, we stop attending him.
10:43Benitez.
10:44You're talking about Benitez.
10:45Who is the one who says he gave him two oranges.
10:46One for the girl and one for the father.
10:48To make an excuse that the boy left.
10:50In the reconstruction.
10:51Of course.
10:52Yes, yes.
10:53I understand.
10:54I find it interesting.
10:55Following what Monica is saying, who is still in contact, is online.
10:59And what you are saying, Marcelo.
11:01I understand.
11:02Let's see if I interpret them well.
11:03It is that you believe that the boy returns to the house.
11:06But he is intercepted by someone.
11:08Exactly.
11:09Yes, that's where the conjecture comes in.
11:11That anything could have happened.
11:13Which Ramirez and Millepi have no idea what happened.
11:17And Benitez yes or Benitez neither?
11:20Well, there are the doubts that Monica, Millepi and Ramirez do not sow.
11:27But one, by logical deduction, listens to the stories of Benitez.
11:32They are incongruent.
11:34And there is also a call that they never heard, which was the famous long call of the nine minutes.
11:40What happens is that there, Marcelo.
11:42They never heard it.
11:44Marcelo, there, the boy would have to be a mix of Maradona dodging the English,
11:50of the bird Caniggia and Mbappé to be so fast that no one saw him
11:55at the moment he surfed all those trees.
11:58That way to get lost.
12:01Well, the thing is that they argue that he is not lost, but that he is intercepted.
12:05How?
12:06They think.
12:07They think.
12:08No, no.
12:09The boy was playing.
12:11The boy was playing with the men and decides to leave.
12:16They were already in El Claro playing and they had raffled off a hill that is like an island.
12:21Yes.
12:22That's what's in the cause.
12:24Can I ask you something?
12:25Tell me.
12:26He didn't come back after he left.
12:28Simena.
12:29Can I ask Monica?
12:31Because I really miss Benitez's insistence to want your husband to go with them.
12:37Let's say you go too.
12:39And then one says, how can they be innocent if in reality I don't know if you had already
12:44gone to the house of Grandma Catalina or was it the first time?
12:48No, we had already gone before.
12:53They went to count the times we went.
12:58I have a memory that there were five times we went.
13:05Five times.
13:06But don't you find it strange then that Benitez has insisted so much that your husband goes
13:11with you, let's say they go to Grandma Catalina's house.
13:15Don't you find that strange?
13:16Yes, I find that strange.
13:18I find it strange that when we got to the field there were people because the times we
13:24went to that field there were no people.
13:28Strange, sorry, Monica, strange is Pérez Icaillava, let's say it with a last name.
13:33Yes.
13:34Because everyone else is in the family.
13:35And the father of Loan.
13:37Well, it's okay, but it seems strange to you.
13:40It's family, yes, but we never saw him there in that field.
13:44Very good, very good.
13:45The times I went, we never saw him.
13:48Monica, you just put a topic about Loan's father, or am I interpreting it wrong?
13:54Because if you never saw him, it seems strange to you.
13:56I say I never saw people in the field.
14:00You had been there three times, and always the usual group was Grandma as host,
14:05Grandma Catalina, Benitez, who was definitely the one who had a friendly relationship with
14:11your husband, some food, I don't know if some shooting excursion too, right?
14:16Have you ever gone hunting?
14:17Can it be?
14:18Yes, my husband likes to hunt, fish, make firewood too.
14:24Well, then let's go now to the other, to the competitors to that lunch that catch your
14:31attention, because I understand that they are already arriving, and when they see a car,
14:35the truck of Icaillava.
14:38It also caught my attention when we arrived in the truck.
14:43And what does that special composition tell you?
14:46You must have stopped to think about that.
14:51How do you understand that those participants are there?
14:54Including, if you want, also that it catches your attention, José, right?
14:57Loan's father, who was usually not from there.
15:04Was something discussed that justified that those competitors were there?
15:08Did they talk about the fate of the field?
15:10Did they talk about something that caught your attention at that lunch?
15:15No, no.
15:17We arrived, as I said, very late.
15:20We arrived to eat directly, sit at the table and eat.
15:26Of course.
15:29I didn't pay attention to the conversation they were having.
15:33They were separate conversations.
15:36Did you cross?
15:43Very well.
15:45You couldn't hear anything revealing about it.
15:48I'll give you one more to finish and also to let Marcelo go,
15:52who has always been very kind to us.
15:56Mónica, that day at dawn, you died at the police station.
16:03Yes.
16:04Did you hear a call saying that Loan had appeared?
16:08Yes, we heard that call.
16:11You heard it.
16:13Do you remember what the call said?
16:17No, I don't remember.
16:19I know that it was said that Loan had appeared.
16:23We were all happy, the few people who were there.
16:26I remember well that I told my son that Loan had already appeared
16:35and that he was going home.
16:37Because, as I told you, my two children are minors
16:40and they were alone at home that night waiting for me to return.
16:45It was to reassure my son that he had already arrived.
16:49That he had already appeared.
16:51Marcelo, now that Mónica tells us this,
16:54we have already talked about this subject several times.
16:57In case it was true and not a false alarm, as they wanted to make us believe,
17:02and evidently they wanted to make the family believe later,
17:06could it be that he did get lost at first and then they took him?
17:13Yes, well, that's a possibility.
17:16I'll even add something that Mónica didn't say,
17:19but she is willing to recognize the policeman who was next to the police officer
17:25because his face reminds him, he didn't know him,
17:29but he remembers his face and if he sees him he will remember who he was.
17:32Because this man congratulated the family,
17:36those who were there, because the boy had appeared.
17:39Yes, yes, that is, everyone was celebrating,
17:42as Mónica said, she didn't hear the content of the alarm,
17:45but the police officer came out to say that the boy had appeared
17:52and that they were going to look for him to see what happened.
17:57And he was accompanied by a policeman,
17:59she doesn't know the name Mónica, but we are going to go down to show him.
18:05But did you get to hear Mónica too,
18:08that they told you that the boy was scared but he was okay?
18:13No, not that.
18:16And what did you hear that you could hear,
18:18just the policeman saying we found him?
18:21Yes.
18:23Very well.
18:24And Mónica, I have a final question,
18:26because as everything is summarized in that famous excursion to the farm,
18:29which is where the boy does not return and disappears.
18:33Are you a friend of Laudelina?
18:35What relationship do you have?
18:36Because when they walk, that famous photo that portrays them,
18:39I think you are chatting with her, right?
18:41Yes.
18:42No, I'm not a friend of Laudelina,
18:46or Camila, much less Benítez.
18:52As they will have said, we don't even have,
18:55I don't even have the phone number of any of the people who were there.
18:58I don't have any kind of relationship,
19:02more than the relationship to accompany my husband where he feels comfortable.
19:08And that excursion to the farm,
19:10is it true that at first you didn't want to go?
19:13I don't know if you came from the bathroom?
19:15No, no, no, I didn't want to go,
19:17but well, if I went, I remember that we were still talking,
19:21she was showing me the place.
19:23And do you want me to tell you that it is not so far away,
19:28who encourages you to go?
19:31Yes, Laudelina.
19:32Laudelina is the one who encourages you to go.
19:34Perfect.
19:35She is the one who invites me to go,
19:37she is the one who brings out Aldoan too.
19:41I want to underline this, because, let's see,
19:43I understood from Monica's initial statement,
19:46that Monica didn't want to go.
19:49Fierrito, I don't know if he's bored,
19:52Benítez went to the farm,
19:54so she says, hey, let's go,
19:56like you accompany your husband,
19:58and she is the one who throws the argument,
20:00hey, it's not that far away,
20:02it's not that far away, let's go,
20:04there they start,
20:05and then, it's not that far away, they start,
20:07and it turns out that she is the first to go back.
20:09That, in so much time that you have had to think,
20:11didn't you make a noise?
20:18Monica?
20:19Yes, yes, the truth is that yes.
20:25Going back, that yes,
20:27I found it very strange,
20:28because she invited me to go,
20:31she leaves me alone, knowing that I don't know,
20:34she goes and leaves all the creatures too.
20:37And you.
20:38Her son was there,
20:39her nephews were there,
20:41and they came back the same.
20:43Yes, yes, but she also leaves you alone too.
20:46Yes.
20:47Because you don't get along with your husband.
20:49No, no, no.
20:50Let's see, that's very suspicious.
20:53And I'm going,
20:55I'm going to concentrate on looking
20:57at where he's going to go in,
20:59so I don't lose sight of him.
21:01I'm going to concentrate,
21:02looking at where he was going in.
21:05Because you, let's tell people,
21:07you made a point, Benitez,
21:08it was first and it was for a bite,
21:10that is, as he cut the road,
21:12it was for a more direct path.
21:13Then he follows him.
21:14I don't know where he went.
21:16He came in front, alone.
21:18Sure, alone.
21:19He was invited by my husband,
21:20but my husband, at that moment,
21:21didn't want to go,
21:22because we had just finished eating.
21:25Excuse me, excuse me.
21:27Benitez, your husband and you,
21:30or your husband,
21:31did you know the place in Laranjal?
21:33Had you already been there?
21:35No.
21:36No?
21:37No, because when we were leaving
21:39with Adelina, Camila and the kids,
21:42we ran into my husband,
21:43who was looking for us.
21:45But the week before,
21:46you didn't go to this place, did you?
21:48Marcelo, let's see, confirm me.
21:50Mónica and Fierrito
21:51were not there the week before?
21:52We went to the house.
21:53To the house.
21:54But we didn't go to the mountain.
21:56To the house, yes.
21:57To the mountain, no.
21:58To the mountain, no.
21:59Is that clear?
22:00Good.
22:01And to make a timeline,
22:02if we believe in their testimony,
22:04this has to be clarified
22:05with an asterisk at the foot,
22:07Benitez goes first,
22:09and he comes first to the famous,
22:11what we call Laranjal.
22:12They call it La Tapera,
22:13I don't know, the name of the neighbor.
22:15Then, when they leave in a group,
22:17they decide to go there,
22:19and they get together,
22:20and the kids fold up.
22:21Ramírez also folds up,
22:23but then he doesn't finish
22:25until he gets to a place,
22:26an alambrado or something,
22:27and he doesn't know how to continue.
22:29So, it's Laudelina
22:30who tells him how to continue.
22:32He goes second.
22:33And then the women
22:34come with the kids.
22:35And when the women
22:36come with the kids,
22:37it turns out that Laudelina,
22:38who knows the terrain the most,
22:40along with Benitez,
22:41decides to go back
22:42to her footsteps.
22:43It's weird.
22:44It's all weird.
22:45It's all very weird.
22:46Mónica, Marcelo,
22:47I just spoke with
22:48the judicial sources,
22:50and they told me
22:51that we're going over
22:52absolutely everything.
22:54That is,
22:55everything we've been telling you
22:57in the last six months,
22:58what Mónica told you,
22:59what Marcelo told you,
23:00everything we've been telling you,
23:03is being reviewed again
23:05by the justice system
23:06to try to understand
23:07where the hole is,
23:09where Aquiles' heel is.
23:12It's there.
23:13It's there.
23:14It's where Bobby says.
23:15It's ten or fifteen minutes.
23:16Aquiles' heel is clearly...
23:17No, but there's one thing
23:18that's key, Bobby,
23:19that you just said.
23:20How can it be that
23:21Audelina goes with Mónica,
23:22who doesn't know the place,
23:23with Fierrito,
23:24who doesn't know the place,
23:25the boys,
23:26and Audelina tells her,
23:27go over there,
23:28and she goes back
23:29and leaves Mónica alone
23:30with the boys,
23:31if Benitez himself
23:32could have told her,
23:33and this is within
23:34the territory of the conjectures,
23:35go, go over there.
23:36She already had the flank,
23:37the rear,
23:38she had it covered,
23:39Audelina,
23:40they have a hole in the middle,
23:41and there,
23:42and there,
23:43she can go,
23:44and there,
23:45and there,
23:46and there,
23:47and there,
23:48and there,
23:49and there.
23:50And there,
23:51and there.
23:52No she may go,
23:53but if Envolle
23:54can go,
23:55and can go,
23:56and she will go,
23:57it's either them
23:58or her.
23:59Pablo,
24:00Pablo,
24:01wait No,
24:02stop,
24:03short-handed.
24:04because the eight minutes
24:05of the call,
24:06I will not,
24:07stop talking on what
24:08I always say.
24:09The eight minutes
24:10of the call
24:11where Mónica
24:12stay wait
24:13his husband
24:14talking,
24:15worried,
24:16and then they finish
24:17It's the eight minutes when she stops seeing Lohan.
24:21There are two times that coexist.
24:26It's because of this distraction that Monica is detained.
24:28The eight minutes when she stops seeing Lohan,
24:33which is when she disappears.
24:34Because Lohan doesn't disappear near the house.
24:36Lohan disappears from the farm because she doesn't see him anymore.
24:39In fact, the dogs get to the farm,
24:41but beyond the dogs, which also catch my attention,
24:44because they don't follow him anywhere, but it doesn't matter.
24:47Lohan, where he disappears, is in the orange.
24:52It's when they stop seeing him.
24:54After they pick him up, take him away,
24:56they catch him, we don't know.
24:58But where they disappear is when they coexist.
25:00These eight minutes of the call,
25:02of Fierrito with Miyapi, with Monica looking at him,
25:06and Lohan, who stops being seen by everyone.
25:10Very good. Marcelo, you have the last one,
25:12and we'll say goodbye.
25:14What happens is that Fito always forgets to analyze together,
25:19and during those eight minutes,
25:22they disappear from the orange.
25:25Tell me, so I can answer you.
25:28When they leave the orange, the kids continue to play,
25:33they do a race, they go and come.
25:36There, Lohan, the kids were seeing him.
25:39Monica no longer.
25:41Those are not the eight minutes that Lohan disappears.
25:44We don't know when.
25:46We don't know when.
25:47In the eight minutes, the kid leaves the group.
25:50Because the kids see him, and some of them see him go.
25:55Not from the orange, but they see him go
25:58from the other side of the little mountain
26:01that covered the vision of the orange,
26:03before the big mountains.
26:06That's why I, making a logical and objective reasoning,
26:10for me, Lohan either reached the path,
26:13and it was where he was surely kidnapped,
26:18or subtracted, whatever you want,
26:20or on the path of the animal slaughter
26:23that is in the north, and that goes to the school.
26:27Very good.
26:28There is no other possible place,
26:30because for the other side it was.
26:32I understand. Fito?
26:33Marcelo, no.
26:34I don't lose my logical reasoning.
26:36I recognize...
26:37In fact, I'm going to call NASA
26:39to hire you for your logical reasoning,
26:42and to fire me.
26:45Marcelo, what I'm saying on this serious subject,
26:49on this serious subject,
26:51that those eight minutes,
26:53at some point in those eight minutes,
26:55that there is a woman watching her husband speak,
26:59and she looks at him, and the husband speaks,
27:01and she is eight minutes watching the husband speak.
27:04I, if I'm worried about what my wife is going to say,
27:07I look at her for a minute, when I see her face,
27:10or I get closer and I worry, or I get away,
27:13but I'm not eight minutes,
27:14as if it were a silent movie by Charlie Chaplin,
27:16that would bore me, watching to see what he does.
27:19So, from my logic, from that logic,
27:22that I already tell you, they are going to fire me from NASA,
27:24I will not be accepted,
27:25from that logic, I say,
27:27they coexist in some of those minutes,
27:30that they stop seeing the boy going somewhere,
27:36and that will always be going around,
27:40that while someone was talking for eight minutes,
27:43and someone was looking at him,
27:45the boy, on the other hand,
27:46stopped being in sight of the rest.
27:48This is the key to why Monica is arrested.
27:50And the rest of those who saw him, if you want.
27:54So, there were two that, due to circumstances,
27:58stopped seeing him,
28:00but there were five children, plus one more adult,
28:05who stopped seeing him, and those realities coexisted,
28:09they were not two different realities,
28:11it was the same scene from a movie,
28:14in different locations.
28:16But that's what I'm always going to say,
28:18it's not that I'm missing something.
28:21I think, I keep saying it,
28:23that in those eight minutes of that call,
28:26is where Lohan's fate changes.
28:29And Monica's fate.
28:31And Monica's fate.
28:32No, no, the rest, Pablo, with respect,
28:35the rest, little interests me at the moment,
28:39if I were a defense lawyer, like Marcelo,
28:42I would be worried about Monica,
28:44but at this moment,
28:46is where Lohan's fate changes,
28:49I will always say, I think, for now,
28:53is in those eight minutes.
28:56Not where they are, but where Lohan was,
28:59and they were seeing the rest.
29:01I agree with you,
29:03I think the most important thing here is Lohan,
29:05now also, these families have children,
29:08and also a call, an eight-minute distraction,
29:11has also changed his life in the case of being innocent.
29:13Well, but he has to show his innocence too.
29:16Well, the justice has to show that they are guilty.
29:21Yes, the justice has to show that they are guilty,
29:24but what you are saying, with good Tino,
29:27is, as you were there, and the boy disappeared,
29:31where, if he had been,
29:33instead of being in Millapi, Fito Baque was there,
29:36Fito Baque would be in jail, the one who was there.
29:39Okay, but I would tell you,
29:41what a shit, look the other way,
29:43Fito had to be looking at the kids.
29:45I always say, you know the people who don't smoke
29:47and get lung cancer,
29:49and people who smoke all the time,
29:51but for people who smoke all the time
29:53and don't get it, it's part of life.
29:55Also, you don't have to think it was those eight minutes,
29:57because also, for me,
29:59there could have been something fixed,
30:01premeditated, armed,
30:03and really, that's why it's so heavy.
30:05That's what is suspected,
30:07that's what is suspected,
30:09and that's why Audelina is arrested,
30:11that's why Benitez is arrested,
30:13and the trial resolution, Pablo,
30:15discards, Pablo,
30:19the trial resolution,
30:21that is, the judge,
30:23discards the premeditation,
30:25because the boy returned,
30:27first, he was not expected to go.
30:31Nobody knew that Lohan was going to lunch.
30:33Excuse me, doctor,
30:35but they also say that if it wasn't Lohan,
30:37it was going to be another boy.
30:39Wait, wait, wait.
30:41Yes, tell us.
30:43I say what the resolution says,
30:45regarding premeditation,
30:47and it discards premeditation,
30:49because it takes for granted
30:51what the boys have said in Gessel's chamber,
30:53and that at a given moment,
30:55without being stimulated by anyone,
30:57the boy decides to return,
30:59and it takes for granted that he returned.
31:01So, there can't be any premeditation
31:03that the judge can use
31:05and they affirm it in the trial.
31:07Two things, Marcelo.
31:09First, what the judge says today,
31:11tomorrow it can be the opposite,
31:13because it is a provisional resolution
31:15so that people understand.
31:17What it says today,
31:19I think that for now it has been
31:21a good investigation,
31:23but you never know when it will be,
31:25because nobody knows,
31:27not even us,
31:29but first, it can be changed.
31:31And second,
31:33the premeditation
31:35can be,
31:37I'll give you an example,
31:39I won't say what happened,
31:41but I'll give you an example.
31:43I take you to the orange tree,
31:45I give you an orange,
31:47and I say, take it to your dad,
31:49go over there.
31:51So, I have it premeditated,
31:53the judge may not know it yet,
31:55and the boy may have been premeditated
31:57to go somewhere,
31:59on purpose,
32:01and even if today
32:03it was not known that Lohan was going to be there,
32:05when Lohan arrived at lunch,
32:07I began to premeditate
32:09what was going to happen
32:11when he went to the orange tree,
32:13because what is not known
32:15is that he was going to be at lunch,
32:17but as soon as he arrived at lunch
32:19and went to the orange tree,
32:21he could have been premeditated,
32:23there is no proof.
32:25The truth is that they were,
32:27and of course,
32:29as Marcelo says,
32:31the premeditation argument
32:33until it came out,
32:35it was not a second,
32:37they did not go to the orange tree
32:39without premeditation,
32:41they did not go to the orange tree
32:43without premeditation.
32:45A classic of Laudelina said
32:47that if it was not Lohan,
32:49it was going to be another of the boys,
32:51and that is also the proof.
32:53There are a lot of elements,
32:55there is a refrigerator that does not appear,
32:57that you think there could be money,
32:59there is money that someone
33:01from Laudelina has in Mercedes,
33:03there are a lot of things
33:05that are not yet clear.
33:07I agree with Fito,
33:09that there has to be a premeditation,
33:11because if the return of the boy
33:13is spontaneous from the orange tree,
33:15there is no organization that resists
33:17that no one is going to guess
33:19that this boy is going to return.
33:21And I think this is what ties
33:23them all together.
33:25There must have been
33:27some minimum degree of premeditation
33:29because otherwise you do not have
33:31a way to make a boy disappear.
33:33Let's see Marcelo.
33:35I leave you a question
33:37for you to investigate.
33:39Where is the bust
33:41that the mother gave to Lohan?
33:43And the backpack?
33:45Do you want to give us an answer?
33:47No, no, investigate it.
33:49If the file is somewhere
33:51and if someone was worried
33:53about that bust,
33:55and if that bust is there.
33:57Very good, very good.
33:59Because until now we had
34:01that the boy was wearing a black shirt.
34:03He said to Laudelina
34:05that we do not know if to believe it or not.
34:07Listen to the testimony of the mother
34:09when she prepares it for him.
34:11What does she put on him?
34:13Very good, what a case this is.
34:15Monica, I'll give you the last one.
34:17The last one is very short,
34:19and I thank you for this contact.
34:21We know you had a bad time.
34:23For us, until justice
34:25is served, everyone is innocent,
34:27but of course they are under suspicion.
34:29You had heard,
34:31Monica, you are from 9 de Julio,
34:33had you ever heard
34:35about the disappearance,
34:37the sale of a child in the area?
34:39No.
34:41The truth is
34:43I never heard
34:45anything
34:47of that kind.
34:49You did not hear anything.
34:51Perfect. Monica, I thank you.
34:53Ramirez Simillapi is charged.
34:55He is in Neuquén with his children.
34:57We thank you for this contact.
34:59We will surely have others.
35:01Marcelo Hanson is Ramirez Simillapi's lawyer.
35:03The same. If you want to close this interview,
35:05Marcelo, welcome.
35:07Do it with total tranquility.
35:09Thank you, Pablo,
35:11for the space you give to Monica
35:13to be able to express herself
35:15with her words
35:17and that it is not simply the lawyer
35:19who gives the version.
35:21It seems perfect to us.
35:23I would like you to confirm
35:25that both she and Ramírez
35:27have always maintained
35:29their speech,
35:31which you can tell me
35:33that maybe, well,
35:35saying it a hundred times does not mean anything,
35:37but I have not heard her in her truth.
35:39That's what I think.
35:41Excellent. Thank you very much for the interview.
35:43I find this interview very interesting.
35:45We have played and we have returned
35:47and we have realized
35:49where the heels are.
35:51The heel here, I tell you,
35:53of the scene.
35:55That moment where Audelina
35:57returns and leaves Monica,
35:59who does not know the place,
36:01to go there, to Campo Traviesa.
36:03In reality it is a road that leads to a mountain.
36:05You can end up in a mountain or in the other.
36:07There is not much difference.
36:09And yet she returns with Camila Núñez,
36:11leaving her with her boys.
36:13It is clear that Audelina knew the place,
36:15she could be confident.
36:17And the two oranges,
36:19that she is going there or not,
36:21we do not know that, only Benítez knows.
36:23But the boys have given some elements
36:25and there is the axis of the matter.
36:27Then we know
36:29remains or
36:31odoriferous pellets
36:33that give
36:35presence to the lion in the truck
36:37and in the car.
36:39The coincidence of the disappearance of the lion
36:41with a single vehicle leaving the place.
36:43Well, the story that we already know.
36:45There, in that window of time
36:47and in that journey
36:49is where the key to the
36:51disappearance of this boy is.
36:53We thank you Marcelo.